General Debate 28 November 2021

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CJames

It has been pointed out that Omicron is an anagram of moronic. Does that apply to the people who promote it as the big new scare, or just the suckers who believe it should be used to further restrict people’s liberty?
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November 28, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Both. Obviously. In the UK the add authorities have been tying themselves in knots saying the variant may escape vaccines while simultaneously imploring people to ‘get the booster’.
  
  On the variant itself, see how ‘dangerous’ it is here: https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/botaswana-b11529-variant-histrionics
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:10am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Nobody will know yet. One scenario is that it is highly contagious but less dangerous than Delta. Which would be a good thing. Delta would be extinct. We all catch Omicron. Get natural immunity and call of this whole farce.
    
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    November 28, 2021 8:40am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Well, based on History, this is what should happen.
      I certainly hope so.
      The quicker we get past all this the better.
      
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      November 28, 2021 8:54am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Also, based on history, mass vaccination (with a non-sterilising therapy, no less – in the middle of a pandemic is utter madness. It has the potential to invert the evolutionary trajectory you refer to.
        
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        November 28, 2021 9:16am
    - westernScientest
      
      That seams ideal, and if it is the way it turns out, I dont really see this or a number of other governments ever admitting that it is a cold-like illness that we should all just ignore and move on with our lives. Can you imagine the podium of truth staying, this new “covid variant is minor, we are going to remove all restrictions and just ignore it”? I think the most likely outcome at this point (assuming it does take over delta as the dominant strain, which it may or may not) is, the variant is less dangerous, but the governments double down and we are back in lockdown because it is more contagious and thats just so scary, and you should go an hide under your bed and wait for saint cindy of the pestilence to save you once more.
      
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      November 28, 2021 8:55am
      - Mark
        
        Could ws do us all a favour and google the seven stages of covid.It is a truly diabolical way of dying.
        
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        November 28, 2021 3:28pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      I can’t wait for the next variant which no doubt will be 100% contagious yet cause not one death.
      
      And I expect the same level of panic.
      
      It will be the perfect illustration of the level of farce and tragedy that we have subjected ourselves to these many months. We really are burning witches and worshipping witchdoctors.
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:52am
      - Surely Knott
        
        No covid deaths can never happen, because they measure any death with the disease as a covid death. So if the disease is more widespread their is naturally more covid deaths even if it’s people being shot in their driveways it’s more likely that person will have the virus. Covid deaths are not deaths primarily caused by covid. We have no idea what that number is.
        
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        November 28, 2021 5:21pm
    - Reid
      
      Sadly Benedict that’s now your immune system works. Those who have been vaccinated (i.e. with only the spike protein fragment of the total virus genome of a strain that no longer exists in the wild) are now going to be in trouble if they get infected with Omicron.
      
      This is because their immune system’s non-specific anti-bodies will now be suppressed by the antibodies induced as a result of the activity which suppressed the spike protein following the vaccine. And not only does that suppression of non-specific antibodies occur, it also means that the induced antibodies are now looking for a spike protein that “looks” like the one on the coronavirus its currently fighting. If omicron’s spike is sufficiently mutated, and it does apparently contain mutations, then those induced antibodies will also ignore it.
      
      This is not a theory, this is immunology 101, so hopefully the mods won’t require a link. But if they do, it’s explained here by one of the world’s top experts: Geert Vanden Bossche.
      
      https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/videos-and-interviews/geert-vanden-bossche-interview-at-the-highwire
      
      Also see his comments on omicron, which doesn’t explicitly cite the immune system’s dynamic I’m outlining above, but that dynamic is why he is saying what he is saying in this note:
      
      https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/scientific-blog/my-opinion-on-the-new-african-variants
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:22am
      - virtualmark
        
        We just don’t know that yet.
        
        We need to just wait for a week or so for the results of tests that will show how effective the vaccines are against Omicron.
        
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        November 28, 2021 1:02pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      I saw a comment that four cases were initially detected of this “new” variant; and all 4 were fully vaccinated. No doubt updated, but only 72 cases detected at the time of the first public reports. And the SA authorities are ridiculing the reportage.
      
      Is this just convenient happenstance for the authorities and Pfizer ?
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:32am
  - PeeJay
    
    Love the link and some of the comments are bloody hilarious. Personal favourite was “If they weren’t all standing up, I’d think it was an assisted living party.”
    
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    November 28, 2021 11:13am
- Spoff
  
  It seems the Masters of Deception have a sense of humour.
  Ancillary reason for this choice of moniker was of course, its similarity to “Omigod” – the ubiquitous response of Normies and Karens Worldwide.
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:10am
  - Vory v zakone
    
    OMI= ODIN (Omi is one of ODIN’S names)
    
    CRON: is a command to an operating system or server for a job that is to be executed at a specified time ??
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:05am
  - MarkF
    
    I heard that the WHO had to skip the preceding letter of the Greek alphabet, as calling it the Xi strain may have been embarassing!
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:10am
    - emmess
      
      I wish they had stuck with the Nu variant name as in Nu Metal
      Sounds really scary to normies like say Slipknot but in reality, is quite harmless albeit mildly annoying.
      The Fred Durst of coronaviruses
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:51am
    - bronny1
      
      Why?
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:09am
    - rouppe
      
      Between delta and omicron comes: epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa, lambda, mu, nu, xi
      
      What happened to all the other ones?
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:43am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “Between delta and omicron comes: epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, iota, kappa, lambda, mu, nu, xi. What happened to all the other ones?”
        
        They didn’t have that dark scary ring to them? The lefty super-beings need to get things through the thick skulls of the dumb rednecks through fear, don’t you know?
        
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        November 28, 2021 3:13pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Omicron is not a Greek alphabet letter. The last one (that I think you meant) is omega. Go figure.
        
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        November 28, 2021 6:04pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It wasn’t an unreasonable thing to do. The Greek alphabet characters are fixed and in its context Xi is perfectly proper. As that also happens to be the name of the Chinese Leader due respect is proper.
      Some matters are outside politics.
      
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      November 28, 2021 1:02pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  I’ll give them some credit for the dark humour, but they’re just taking the piss and rubbing our faces in it now, aren’t they?
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:15am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes. Delta is sooooo passé. So very 2021 and unexciting. All the cool kids are getting lathered up about Omicron now.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:27am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      That’s what it boils down to: familiarity breeds contempt, thus a “new strain” is needed every so often to sustain the pantomime.
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:39am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Talking about taking the piss, here are the Austrian politicians and “special people” partying 2 days after imposing total lockdown and mandating jabbing everyone in the country. When do people shake themselves out of their stupor??
    
    https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/kitten-corner-austrian-leaders?r=u4qo&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=copy
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:42am
- Surely Knott
  
  The Uk has already had their vaccines for some time and enjoying their liberties. Why would people now want to download the passport. If there was not a new variant what justification would they have for bringing in the passports? A new Variant was needed and right on time a new variant appears.
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:28am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Sure, England is enjoying their “freedoms”. Not so much Scotland and Wales. Watch this space.
    
    “Travel and mask rules tightened over new variant”
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-59445124
    
    How many times are people going to see this vicious cycle happen before they realise we’re not getting out of this until we stop playing the game?
    Watch the UK closely. Whether the people put up with it again is another matter.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:52am
    - rouppe
      
      A relative of mine from the Netherlands has just posted photos from her trip to the USA.
      
      I’m totally confused. In the Netherlands are curfews, limits on the numbers of people you can mix with, mask wearing etc. But hey, travel internationally and mix with whoever you want, no worries.
      
      Can’t get my head around that…
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:51am
- G152
  
  Just got to keep those peasants under the thumb.
  Nothing better than the threat of a deadly version of a now proven not so deadly (if you are a good guy/ess and get the shot.
  This show has been bought to us by the power crazed politicians who we should never ever ever re-elect
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:35am
- mandk
  
  Neil Oliver has done a good piece on GBNews on the theme of governments not wanting to let go of Covid.
  
  I think it applies especially well to Ardern’s mob.
  
  Without Covid it would be obvious, even to the most impenetrable dimwitted amongst us that they are a complete and utter shambles failing miserably at everything they attempt.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:05am
- MCōs
  
  I note ACT, who one minute are calling for the borders to be relaxed are taking a different tack.
  “Clarity and calmness are the order of the day. The Government should reassure New Zealanders that it will buy time with selective border closures. It should immediately list the countries with the Omicron variant to high risk and limit travel. It should be meeting urgently today to put in place a plan.”
  https://www.act.org.nz/calm_and_clarity_needed_for_omicron
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:33am
artemisia

Couple of days back there was some discussion on Kiwiblog about unemployment rates. The Income Support Weekly Update one page chart at link below has a lot of information, including trends and the weekly updates are added a week later so pretty current.

5.8% of the estimated working age population on Jobseeker Benefit and 11.3% on main benefit.

Confess to having difficulty matching the JS number with the historic low unemployment rates recently announced, but I’m sure they are completely accurate, no fudge factor has been applied.

https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/statistics/weekly-reporting/index.html
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November 28, 2021 8:02am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “but I’m sure they are completely accurate, no fudge factor has been applied.”
  Both probably quiet accurate given that they are two totally different data sets measured. One a household intent survey ( internationally comparable,) and one a govt department output 🙂 measure.
  The interpretive communication of the employment rate data by Robbo et al is the fudge factor.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I posted on this at the time. Unemployment is not measured by counting beneficiaries. It is measured by survey. Same methodology across the OECD.
  
  In New Zealand these days you don’t need to be unemployed to get a benefit… You don’t need to “be seeking work”.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:04am
  - rangitoto
    
    It isn’t really the same methodology. In some countries there is no unemployment benefit or a limited time period, nearly everyone out of work would take a job if they could. Whereas here living as a dole bludger is a life style for many. So although the method appears the same on the surface, it isn’t measuring the same thing.
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:52pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Just keep piling on the “360 degree support” for the crims and the rorters, seems to be the belief system at work, going by the govt aspirations they mindlessly reel off when asked hard questions.
    
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    November 28, 2021 3:21pm
- bronny1
  
  What is a main benefit?
  Are those figures additive ie main benefit +JS because that’s 16% of the pop. Add retired people (15%?) and children ((another 15%) and that only 55% of the pop have jobs. We know that about 2/3 of them pay no tax so that leaves less than 20% of us funding the other 80. What am I missing? How do I get to be in the 80 instead of the 20?
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:14am
  - amospicton
    
    I think that’s right. Maybe as little as 10% of us are net tax payers. But it’s about time we started paying our fair share!
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:52am
  - mawm
    
    Quite honestly I’d rather be in the 20 than the 80.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How to be in the 80? Become a socialist – easy
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:54pm
Bridgenag

The blokes at bowls want to know what is happening in the hospitals with staff waiting for the 80,000 Covid cases and not doing operations. Are they working from home?
Waiting?
What?
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November 28, 2021 8:03am
- pdm
  
  Like Roger Twose – former New Zealand cricketer.
  
  Waiting waiting waiting.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:12am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Or Glenn Turner. Waiting, wait on.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:17am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Imagine poor Sukhi’s frustration. Unbearable tension from such indecision.
      
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      November 28, 2021 12:15pm
- kevn
  
  @Bridgenag… People dying waiting for the cancelled ops and other procedures/treatment.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:57am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Those deaths never counted of course or the suicides. Another question…..we used to get 600 Flu deaths each year. What happened to them?
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The flu got eliminaded by covid
      
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      November 28, 2021 1:55pm
Truman lodge

See Julie Ann Genter is being hailed a legend for riding her bike to the hospital at 2am this morning to give birth.

I recall her doing that with her first born. Her choice of course, but I seriously don’t recommend riding a bike at 2am while in labour. Why would anyone do such a thing unless it’s for publicity? I’d say its actually dangerous and selfish.
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November 28, 2021 8:05am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I wonder who was in the car that took the photo of her; a Green Party press secretary, maybe?
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:02am
  - Ehlana
    
    Oh, Tony, you don’t think the photo could have been taken from another bicycle? One of those two person bikes, of course, so one person could cycle while the other took pictures.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:43am
    - Stephen Russell
      
      Taking a photo while riding a bike is actually not at all easy (I speak from experience here), and in many cases (eg at 2am on a city street) rather dangerous. Unless … maybe it was from a tandem?
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:59am
    - pdm
      
      Ehlana – are you saying she went to the maternity unit on a bicycle built for two?
      
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      November 28, 2021 1:26pm
  - oldfella
    
    Tony, but how far did she actually cycle? From home to hospital, or did she get a ride till she was almost at the hospital gates? And then jump on her bike while someone in the accompanying vehicle – other than the driver – took the ‘legend’ photos?
    
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    November 28, 2021 11:28am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I thought only Len Brown did shit like that. Ride the train while the mayoral car traveled the motorway?
      
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      November 28, 2021 1:57pm
  - rouppe
    
    I don’t like her one little bit but…
    
    Pretty easy to take a frame off a go pro running during the ride, which is common practice these days.
    
    I got the impression her partner was riding with her.
    
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    November 28, 2021 11:56am
- dime
  
  ohh cant wait to see the new bike.
  
  our eco friend seems to own about 50 of them. every photo its a different bike.
  
  was the photographer riding no hands when they took the shot? her hospital bag must have been small.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:18am
- Russ the Muss
  
  Politics aside, from what I’ve seen of child birth riding a bike during labour is pretty crazy which is why the greens are very dangerous purely on being so ideologically driven, but also I must admit there is fair bit of respect from me. Like many of my mates who are a bit mad in terms of the risk and choices they make, it still amazes me what humans will do for a cause or simply a buzz. So I find it hard to criticize this act to much, and sincerely all the best for motherhood x 2 JAG, it gets alot harder from one,and that bike is going to be upsized if that’s the family ride!
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:21am
- krazykiwi
  
  You are connected to your bike at 5 points. One of these, the most significant from a load bearing perspective, is the very last place to be using while in labour.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:30am
  - kevn
    
    @kk… Ok to pretend ride for a photo op though? Classic virtue signalling.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:56am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    What other part of the body is used during labour? I think you’ve surpassed yourself.
    
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    November 28, 2021 11:14am
- ClanMcleod
  
  It’s virtue signaling bollocks as expected from these idiots. Who has someone taking photos of them at 2am unless it’s for a PR stunt?
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:54am
- emmess
  
  Well in a normal country, she would be arrested for reckless endangerment of a child but given that we have abortion until birth here, she is treated as some sort of hero.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:54am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’d be interested in a list of which countries you consider to be ‘normal’.
    
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    November 28, 2021 11:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  We need more mansplaining of what women in labour should be doing. Luckily there are more than enough Kiwiblog snowflakes tell Genter how she should take care of herself and her baby.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:10am
  - amospicton
    
    She’s the one inviting a response Milky – that article didn’t get there by accident.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:55am
  - Cassandra
    
    At least this time she was based in Wellington so she is reducing her carbon footprint. She was induced last time, although at 2 am she was probably going to hospital because birth was imminent. However, it is publicity seeking. Since she’s a politician we should not be surprised. Good on her for making the effort. Pity more of her Green Party colleagues don’t do the same. Man for man they use lots of fuel. As do their women. Not forgetting the non-binary.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:59am
  - Truman lodge
    
    But it’s ok for the state to tell you how to raise your kids mike?
    
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    November 28, 2021 4:17pm
    - Mike
      
      Are you trying to say that the community has no interest in how children are raised?
      Perhaps you would prefer the Roman model, where the paterfamilias had power of life or death over the household.
      
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      November 28, 2021 6:05pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Truman, the odds on her being in labour are zero. There isn’t a woman I know, that has been in labour, that was capable of riding a bike. Having contractions while riding a bike? I don’t bloody think so. Another virtue signalling imbecile.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:11am
- LauraNorda
  
  What father of the child would allow a pregnant mother to cycle to hospital at 2.00am in the dark early morning? One could question the wisdom of both the mother and father in doing this.
  Spare me!
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    An emasculated father
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:02pm
    - Truman lodge
      
      [Deleted – Kiwiblog has a rule not to bring MP’s family into discussions. mod.]
      
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      November 28, 2021 4:19pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    He is the same. Cycling fanatic.
    
    Will they bring back the baby from the hospital on the bike? I doubt it. It will be in a motor vehicle. With no photos in the media.
    
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    November 28, 2021 3:13pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Maybe it is like her first one, riding in to be induced. Thus not actually in labour at all ? Not sure, but would be “safe” but a real problem if went into labour suddenly.
  
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  November 28, 2021 2:18pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Wearing a Chairman Mao uniform?
  
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  November 28, 2021 3:23pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

As someone else pointed out, WHO skipped over the Greek letter Xi.

Funny, sponsors usually like being name-checked.
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November 28, 2021 8:05am
- CJames
  
  Unfortunately, that is just a myth. There is no Greek letter Xi, at least according to the Greeks.
  https://www.greece.com/info/language/greek_alphabet/
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:58am
  - MarkF
    
    Not so, according to Wikipedia
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_alphabet
    
    So therefore there is a difference in interpretation.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:17am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Look at your own table. Ksi is pronounced X as in box. All the reporters would be saying Xi.
      
      And WHO definitely skipped this letter.
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:23am
  - gonzo
    
    as reported….
    “Some other variants with Greek letters do not reach those classification levels, and the W.H.O. also skipped two letters just before Omicron — “Nu” and “Xi” — leading to speculation about whether “Xi” was avoided in deference to the Chinese president, Xi Jinping.
    
    “‘Nu’ is too easily confounded with ‘new,’” Tarik Jasarevic, a W.H.O. spokesman, said on Saturday. “And ‘Xi’ was not used because it is a common last name.”
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:25am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Of course Tarik, its also the Greek [deleted] ALPHABET and it wouldn’t do for anyone to be offended by someone using an alphabet.
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:13am
    - Paulus
      
      Nu is alright for Nu Tirani, which is what New Zealand is called in the so called Treaty of Waitangi.
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:51am
    - rouppe
      
      He should be honoured that a deadly virus that originated in his country is named after him.
      
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      November 28, 2021 12:07pm
  - rouppe
    
    Look again.
    
    Using your list there’s no Omicron either.
    
    I think your being mendacious. Clearly the Ksi, for the letter ‘X’, is anglicised to Xi.
    
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    November 28, 2021 12:03pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No sorry. Xi is often written as Ksi.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_(letter)
    
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    November 28, 2021 3:16pm
Man Among the Ruins

What has happened to us that I now walk the streets in fear of others? Why do these people not just act rationally instead of dining heartily on constant misinformation? I just don’t understand the mindset that, despite clear evidence to the contrary, these individuals (of which there is a worryingly large proportion) take any old bit of nonsense and smugly waive it in the face of their so-called fellows? I’m over these smug vaxxers.
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November 28, 2021 8:12am
- pdm
  
  `What has happened to us that I now walk the streets in fear of others? ‘
  
  Hell I don’t MAR. Happy to rub shoulders and shake hands with strangers.
  
  Worked Friday afternoon as security guard in the foyer of a Health Center Friday afternoon – no one going in or out was worrying about so called social distancing.
  
  Out for lunch today with a dozen friends – hugs all round at the start and finish I expect.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:17am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    I’m satirising the attitude of an avowed and rabid vaxxed person, with the plot twist that I’m unvaxxed myself.
    
    Having (apparently) rendered a picture of a disparaging comment by a vaxxer towards a non-vaxxed person, at the last minute (and here’s the cunning aspect), I pull out the “I gotcha: I’m actually talking about vaxxed people, from the standpoint of being unvaxxed!” thereby subverting the reader’s expectations. General hilarity ensues.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:43am
- Ehlana
  
  Do you fear them? Or do they avoid you?
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:44am
Reid

One of the top specialists in the field Geert Vanden Bossche explains the epidemiology behind the vaccination program. This was done back in June but posting in light of Omicron, so people understand why these variants are appearing.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/vGBDETOPAJA/
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November 28, 2021 8:14am
Rich Prick

Do we pay people to name these things? Virus-McVirus-Face would be much more fun. I’m over it all.
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November 28, 2021 8:15am
- dime
  
  Kinda hoping we get “kiwirona”
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:38am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Nope. If we, New Zealand, develop our own strain, I want those who lay claim to it as they lay claim to everything else here and call it the maori or aotearoa strain so the rest of the world don’t hate on us evil civilising colonial bastards
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:54am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well, you did ask…
  so here goes…
  
  There is an agreed code of Nomenclature for Viruses
  https://talk.ictvonline.org/information/w/ictv-information/383/ictv-code
  and a group of Virus taxonomists in charge of naming viruses at the species level and above.
  
  For variants of viruses, (below species level) there are a number of groups who use different identification systems.
  
  e.g. for the variants causing the current Covid-19 outbreak, research scientist use a a lettering and number system to track lineage relationships between the evolving variants
  Pango: https://cov-lineages.org/
  
  However, WHO has decided for non-technical audiences to employ Greek Alphabet letters for variants of interest/variants of concern……instead of using country of origin or unpronounceable names.
  https://www.who.int/news/item/31-05-2021-who-announces-simple-easy-to-say-labels-for-sars-cov-2-variants-of-interest-and-concern
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:17am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Under the “truth in advertising”, plain language and trades description regulations they should really be called “Control mechanism #5” and so on.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:21am
Scooter

Funny this new variant should come out of southern Africa after news reports of how they have avoided large cases.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/africa-avoids-covid-disaster-scientists-are-mystified-and-wary/GW6C434H326YUJ6EMCCPIAMUGM/
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November 28, 2021 8:23am
- Ruahine
  
  Perhaps it was a new strain from Wuhan brought to Africa by Chinese immigration.
  
  https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/migration-trade-china-africa-traders-face-precarity
  
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  November 28, 2021 11:53am
Tomtoddy

The levels of incompetence in thr health ministry and the Government are almost beyond belief. It is taking 5 days to get Covid test results in Auckland.

After all these months and time to prepare they have no idea what they are supposed to be doing.
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November 28, 2021 8:30am
- Nickc2
  
  Forward and contingency planning is not this Govt’s strong point.
  PS: BTW, what are their strong points if any?
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:37am
  - pdm
    
    NIck – announcing announcements.
    
    It is all they have.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:18am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Tyranny.
    Deceit.
    PowerPoint (as in one page charts).
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:28am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Stopping people doing things is their only ability.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:32am
    - Colville
      
      I dispute that.
      
      they have NOT stopped people sleeping in cars, sucking up a bene while doing nothing, mistreating their kids, shooting each other, joining gangs, complaining about not being able to buy a house (because they cant afford one).
      
      So you see this government allows lots of basic freedoms…. just not the ones you and I want.
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:38am
  - Ehlana
    
    They’re good at spending your money, so good in fact they’ve even spent your grandchildren’s.
    
    They are unparalleled I believe, in the field of establishing committees to look into things.
    
    Their skills in creative reinterpretation of both facts and their own past statements are outstanding.
    
    They have successfully dismantled accountability requirements which obstructed many people from the quiet enjoyment of their benefits.
    
    Just this week alone they have again demonstrated skill in circumventing democratic conventions.
    
    And we can’t overlook their work in empowering community organisations of the marginalised and vulnerable – like Black Power and the Mongrel Mob.
    
    No doubt I have missed other strong points; these are just those that spring most readily to mind.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:52am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Only one tick to give chap, just the one . . . .
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:56am
    - Nickc2
      
      Great managerial skills eh?
      That’s the sort of stuff they should all include in their CVs.
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:59am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Their strong points are listed below:
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Everything else is a weak point.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:15am
- surfing
  
  To leave auckland (for some of the allowed reasons), you require a negative covid test administered within 72 hours .
  
  The government are making the people play squid games . .
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:54am
- TS Child
  
  My last test was 17 October. Have crossed the border and returned. Still awaiting result …
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Takes 40 min if you are in the Hosp ED
  
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  November 28, 2021 2:07pm
Benedict Yu

The variants are named using Greek Alphabet. They were going to call it “Nu” but that would be confused with “New”. Then there was “Xi” but that is the name of the Chinese President. Oops. So we got what we got ?.
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November 28, 2021 8:35am
- Biscuit
  
  Omicron ain’t so bad.
  
  Three syllables is a tad unwieldy – but I know an alphabet where the 23rd of 26 letters is called dub-ill-you!
  
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  November 28, 2021 8:39am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Gosh, makes you think it would be so much easier not to have a written alphabet at all.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:20am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Worked for maori who developed sciences between cannibalistic cultural exchanges . . .
      
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      November 28, 2021 9:58am
  - pdm
    
    Biscuit – We are all overwhelmed by your cleverness.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:43am
    - Biscuit
      
      And yet, pdm, I am excluded from this lunch with a group of a dozen friends you mention at 9.17 am above.
      
      Sniff!
      
      I am all on my tod today with nowt more to do than watch replays, on loop, of Liverpool’s four goals vs. Southampton…
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:54am
      - pdm
        
        I asked if you and yours could come along but there were two specific exclusions:
        
        1.. No scousers.
        2. No Liverpool supporters in case there were any who were not covered by 1.
        
        I will try again next time.
        
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        November 28, 2021 1:36pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I know a country where they elected a President of the same name!
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:23am
  - Diogenes
    
    And in French, “w” is pronounced “doubill-vay” (sort of; as close as I can get without phonetic symbols).
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:29pm
- Scooter
  
  I really don’t give an iota anymore, it’s all Greek to me and I beta things will get worse, psi (sigh)
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:48am
  - Biscuit
    
    Groan!
    
    (But a chuckling groan!)
    
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    November 28, 2021 11:54am
- Russ the Muss
  
  I’m glad we are following the science and no politics is involved in out most trusted institutions and leadership.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:48am
sooty

I’m loving this shit fight in Notional!
Just think of the utu Simon Bridges will have on all the people that voted for wee Toddy Muller and caused all of this crap, since!
There’s going to be a large change in notinals line up come next election, which could be a good thing!
If they go with Luxon as the savior of all there jobs in opposition, it’s a question of how to make a large party into a smaller one!
Me, I think that the next notional PM is not in parliament. Yet!
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November 28, 2021 8:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Read an article today that quoted Luxon’s maiden speech. It is full of gender equality, rainbow tick, big government nonsense. It is highly alarming. No. Just no. If he becomes PM all he will do is more competently administer the giant state sector created by Jacinda. When large parts of it need to be burned to the ground.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:10am
  - Colville
    
    Benedict.
    
    I think a lot of KBers realise sooner of later that if KBers got the leader they wanted then that leader would be too far right for most NZers.
    National needs a leader to cuddle up to the middle of NZ and make them feel safe and happy and a strong alarmist who is going to tear everything down is just not going to work if National want the centrist voters.
    Key had it right when he said in his first term that you have to educate the voters to move them to your standpoint and you need to be in power to do that.
    So the big bald smiley dude gets in a slowly slowly fixes things. There is a LOT to fix and its going to take a long time.
    How many of Labours front bench would hang around after an election loss? Labour wouldnt be much in opposition.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:50am
    - Random T Person
      
      Dude looks just like Dav Pilkey’s Captain Underpants
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:37am
    - westernScientest
      
      No National needs a leader who can convince those middle New Zealanders why their principles and ideas will result in a more prosperous and better New Zealand for all. They do not need more ‘moving left to capture the middle’ BS. Why do you think so many western contries including New Zealand have drifted so far to the the left over the last 30 years?
      
      This is what the left do, “our ideas of soft socialism
      will make everyone better off, trust us we are great central planners and know best, we will make your lives better by fixing your problems for you” Yeah they have dumb ideas, but they have convinced the ‘middle’ that they are the best ones, because the right are just ‘trying to capture the middle’ by moving left rather than convincing people that their ideas and principles are better for everyone.
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:38am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      …and its going to take a long time.
      
      That’s one of the flaws in the approach. Anything longer than two or even three terms is a fail, like English talking about possible tax cuts in the future once the debt/GDP was reduced to an acceptable level.
      
      Instead we got Labour, who promptly took advantage to piss money against various walls. You’ll also note that they don’t seem to have the same worries that you and National do about getting elected or implementing their ideas.
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:48am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I would argue that as a country we no longer have time to fix things slowly.
      
      Let’s just take one example. You can’t fix the Ministry of Education slowly. You just can’t. I have dealt with them professionally once. Never again.
      
      What are you going to do? Let a cohort of children be educated poorly while you fix it slowly?
      
      Same with the Maori Science fiasco. The new government simply needs to end it in the first 100 days. Repeal all references that require policy makers to use Maori Science
      
      Sorry it is too late for slowly.
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:11am
      - Colville
        
        Benedict.
        
        Q: How much can the National Party change while in opposition?
        
        A: SFA.
        
        Therefore the National Party needs to get elected to change anything. So Luxon is a necessary evil.
        
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        November 28, 2021 11:25am
      - Taieri
        
        Repeal all references that require policy makers to use Maori Science
        ————
        
        In accordance with The Principles of Te Tiriti I trust?
        
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        November 28, 2021 11:48am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      And BTW I don’t think my views are in any way extremist. I care very much about the plight of New Zealanders in difficult circumstances.
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:14am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Hell, we only need about 1 day’s warning before we all comply with lockdown orders, vaccination mandates & supermarket sign-ins.
        
        Shouldn’t be too difficult for us all to adjust to a new regime.
        
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        November 28, 2021 11:36am
    - Taieri
      
      Key had it right when he said in his first term that you have to educate the voters to move them to your standpoint and you need to be in power to do that.
      ——————
      
      There’s another option. To paraphrase Bertolt Brecht…If the voters do not meet the Government’s standards, the Government could dissolve the voters end elect another…
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:46am
    - pdm
      
      Colville said:
      `How many of Labours front bench would hang around after an election loss? Labour wouldnt be much in opposition.’
      
      They would have to Colville because how many of them would get a job elsewhere paying half th much dosh. Could you imagine Grant or Megan making a dollar picking apples?
      
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      November 28, 2021 1:41pm
  - Russ the Muss
    
    Yup, but thats what ACT is for and why they are critical within our political environment. National gains electoral power more often than not because they get the middle ground. The policies that middle NZ won’t swallow may get shoehorned n via a coalition deal with ACT. That is the only path to victory for the right in this country. If you think we will every elect a small govt conservative ever again, sadly u will be waiting indefinitely. It won’t happen mate. This country is centre left and is only moving more to the left. So my view is, a populist corporate mover like luxon who gets accross the line is probably the only path and like Key, is far better than an Increasingly more extreme left within labour. Adern for all her faults will be looked at in the future as a moderate and her weakness is seeing her party get taken over by nutters, the greens would be proud off.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:57am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Not quite, Key sought the Maori vote after Helen lost it over the foreshore and seabed legislation, enabling the MP then craping on them. That’s why the Nats try to put on a brown face at the last election and have since not abandoned it.
      When remembering Judith’s kamikaze dive this week it is worth recalling that Simon Power’s departure seemed to in part result from the way she conducted her role as Corrections Minister, the same style of which she carried into her job as Minister of Justice after his departure. It’s not appreciated how much of a leadership gap he left, or that particularly that he could have become a long-term PM as his success in the private sector shows.
      And on that kamikaze dive, I have yet to see a comment that in her mind perhaps she was taking Simon Bridges with her by the tag she had managed to label on him.
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:41am
  - Mark
    
    Do not wimp it Benny what parts need to be burned to the ground.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:43pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  Yes! Bridges wins and has all the people who looked squinty at him accused of offending whales and demoted and de-selected. Then there will be a revolt. and all the people who supported Bridges will be accused of offending snails and demoted and de-selected. And then there will be a counter-reaction and all the people who looked squinty at anyone accused of offending helpless innocent protoplasms and demoted and de-selected.
  Then the true mastermind of all this chaos will be revealed! And he will control the whole caucus (of one) with iron discipline. There will be no dissent against the supreme leader. Long live the great leader Ian McKelvie!
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:06am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I really enjoyed that poll result the other day where it looks like every National MP has at least one or two Kiwiblog supporters. Or they all logged in the vote for themselves!
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:14am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      DPF told us that there were over 2000 votes…
      
      https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/national_leadership_results.html
      
      So for the 8 folks who scored 0.1% for Leader, they must have at least 2 fans who read KB.
      
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      November 28, 2021 11:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Thanks for doing the maths. That poll was very entertaining. I’d be particularly interested in reading the reasoning of those preferring Maureen Pugh (1.1%!) over Scott Simpson (0.1%) or Barbara Kuriger (0.1%)
        
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        November 28, 2021 11:20am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I couldn’t care a fig about the “reasoning”.
        
        The poll was surely enough to convince observers that KB is far from being an echo chamber.
        
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        November 28, 2021 1:46pm
      - Mike
        
        Why is it important to belive the blog is not an echo chamber?
        I just thought it was extra entertaining that so many Kiwibloggers could see the leadership qualities inherent in so many MPs. I should think that any National MP who didn’t figure in that poll would feel a bit miffed.
        
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        November 28, 2021 6:15pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Long live the great leader Ian McKelvie!
    
    And the great deputy leader, Andrew Bayly!
    
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    November 28, 2021 3:43pm
- Paulus
  
  With the change in National Cindy should be very afraid of what the changes will make to the polls.
  She is foolish that we know to think she knows best and can mock again the National Party – at her peril.
  Get your bags ready to run Cindy – Grant should not assume anything as well.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:56am
alloytoo

In a lighter vein, our cul de sac held a wee street party last night.

BBQ’s, music, dancing, ice lollies for the babies who has become toddlers during lockdown.

Enjoyable time held by all.
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November 28, 2021 8:46am
Master Mariner

Wait for the call to ban all travelers from Southern Africa here.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/covid-19/australia-closes-its-borders-to-nine-african-nations-as-world-races-to-contain-new-covid-19-variant/
But wait for it. NZ is already isolated due to bugger all airlines coming here,
https://www.flightradar24.com/-41.29,173.25/3
Impossible to arrive here unless travelers are allowed to transit banned countries etc.
Curious to see if there are any calls from MSM / Government to ban travel etc.
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November 28, 2021 9:01am
- Random T Person
  
  I booked tickets to South Africa on Qantas on Thursday last week… Dang. Only for April but still
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:39am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Bugger, Still get there, Maybe come back via Mauritius or another country suitable. May be a hop scotch return trip but possibly doable before authorities play catch up.
    Welcome to my world.
    
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    November 28, 2021 4:18pm
    - mawm
      
      Mauritius has closed its doors to South Africa.
      
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      November 28, 2021 6:56pm
kevn

By the time the QR codes are all sorted they will have expired.
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November 28, 2021 9:04am
Benedict Yu

Not that I care but it seems odd that this person seeks publicity for riding a bike to hospital while in labour.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127121005/green-mp-julie-anne-genter-cycles-to-hospital-while-in-labour–again

I mean maybe other women in New Zealand do this but the chances are she is the only person to do it. IMO this does not make her virtuous. It demonstrates that she is irrational.

One of the very few positives of the last election is that she lost her role as Associate Minister of Transport.
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November 28, 2021 9:06am
- Nickc2
  
  I’ve heard of women giving birth in the backseat of a taxi on their way to hospital but on a bicycle, is beyond the pale.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:16am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Bonkers but mostly harmless.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:31am
  - kevn
    
    @al… JAG doesn’t come cheap though. Being bonkers doesn’t discount her salary.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:48am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    She was not harmless as a minister.
    
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    November 28, 2021 9:51am
- bono vilfredo
  
  Virtue signalling tatt head.
  Should be expelled back to the US. Take Jimmy two Mums with her.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:45am
- TripeWryter
  
  Dr Shane Reti might be amused.
  In his maiden speech he recounted how when his mother was going into labour she would mount a horse, ride across the tides, and go to visit an auntie who was a midwife.
  The babies would be delivered. Mum would ride home.
  He also said that Auntie also banned fathers from being at the births. ‘This is women’s work,’ he quoted her as saying.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:53am
- Benedict Yu
  
  There is another downside to her ideological refusal to own a motor vehicle. It inevitably means that her world is confined to whatever leafy Auckland suburb she lives in. And no flying to Wellington does not count.
  
  That means she had limited opportunity to visit and talk to people outside of that bubble. In turn that distorts her thinking about public policy. James Shaw is exactly the same. I read an article about James Shaw. He told the journalist that he works at his home in Wellington most weekends. His recreation is going for a walk followed by one or two craft beers.
  
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  November 28, 2021 9:57am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Poor Benedict. If only all MPs were more like…you.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:16am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      That is churlish.
      
      Riding a bike when you are in labour and then actively seeking publicity for it is just virtue signalling rubbish.
      
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      November 28, 2021 12:17pm
  - virtualmark
    
    She lives in Wellington, in Island Bay.
    
    So Auckland is safe from her. Unless she flies.
    
    The Green Party seems to recruit many of its MPs from that same personality type that spent the Middle Ages wearing hair shirts and flagellating themselves. Harmless if isolated from society in a monastery. Dangerous if put in Parliament.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:20am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Benedict,
    JAG lives in Wellington.
    
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    November 28, 2021 10:38am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Oh OK. I just recalled that in 2018 she biked to an Auckland hospital to give birth.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/106388432/green-mp-julie-anne-genter-bikes-to-hospital-to-be-induced
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:58am
      - Cassandra
        
        Indeed. Moved to Wellington in 2019. Lives 10 minutes by bike from Wellington Hosp in Newtown. I wonder if she cycles to Parliament? Or to the airport? Or in the 11 months of the year in Wellington when it’s blowing a gale or pouring with rain?
        
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        November 28, 2021 11:06am
- Scooter
  
  Is this the new woke way to bring on labour, I thought it was sex.
  
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  November 28, 2021 11:33am
mandk

I think we should have more cuddly names for all these Covid variants.

I propose that the next one should be Reginald.
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November 28, 2021 9:08am
- amospicton
  
  Reginald Perrin? Our response to covid has been entirely Perrinesque!
  
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  November 28, 2021 11:03am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I didn’t get to where I am today by watching Reginal Perrin.
    
    8 1
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    November 28, 2021 12:14pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I didn’t get where I am today by being being “Perrinesque…”
    
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    November 28, 2021 12:28pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Yes CJ. How’s Mrs CJ by the way?
      
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      November 28, 2021 1:55pm
Bridgenag

Huge protests in Melbourne yesterday. Was it reported here? [only looking at Aljazera these days]
ABC says [item 11 on the news list so maybe the ABC has become a propaganda machine as well as our MSM]

“The protesters have been calling for the Victorian government to scrap its controversial pandemic bill, which is due to be voted on in the upper house.
The bill was designed to replace State of Emergency laws that were used to bring in restrictions during the COVID-19 pandemic.
The proposed legislation has been the subject of intense debate, attracting protests outside the Victorian parliament for a number of weeks.”

About 20,000 apparently
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November 28, 2021 9:11am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Uptick for endorsing Al Jazeera as a good news source. Just don’t expect them to provide much critical coverage of the Qatari government.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:19am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Insightful comment. Correctly singling out Al Jazerra as one of the handful of news agency that say exactly what their owners tell them to say is pure brilliance. I mean, you’ve got RT (aka Russian state television) and Al Jazerra (aka Qatari state television), but that’s the extent of it, thank goodness.
    
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    November 28, 2021 12:22pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  ABC has been a leftist propaganda machine for decades mate.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:40am
  - Mark
    
    As an avowed anti left chappie Lodden ,I was wondering what you make of Fonterra .A socialist success story at the mo ,I hears this morning $9 kms.I would wager most dairy farmers would not like to be on their own negotiating with the likes of Nestle or the gigantic players in this market.So they all got together as a socialist cooperative and voila success.But let a carpenter get together and organise with his co workers to get abetter deal and it is the end of western civilisation according to your lot.I have a wide skill set but sheesh huge companies just smash individuals as they see fit,and ride roughshod over workers needs and requirements .Lucky farmers ,they get to organise things nicely,pity the poor old tradie.
    
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    November 28, 2021 3:43pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Mark, if you can’t negotiate a better deal for your workers in an essential industry such as construction, in the current political climate then frankly, you’re doing a piss-poor job.
      
      I mean, even the Cooks and Stewards are going on strike. They used to strike every school holidays regular as clockwork, but until now they haven’t struck for 25 years.
      
      If they can, tradies can. Do better.
      
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      November 28, 2021 10:33pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        There hasn’t been a cooks and stewards union since the 1980s. And I sincerely doubt the folk wisdom concerning that union going on strike ‘every school holidays’.
        
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        November 29, 2021 6:29am
westernScientest

It seems a bit odd to me that the msm are pushing Luxon and Bridges as the candidates, with the odd little throw away mention of Bishop and Mitchell, but never any mention of Reti. Has he said he doesn’t want the job or are they worried he might win if they dont pretend he is irrelevant?
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November 28, 2021 9:17am
- Colville
  
  Surely they wouldnt have given “interim Leader” to Reti if he had wanted the top job.
  
  I would think he ruled himself out early looking at playing a long game and doing it properly after a couple of terms as a Minister?
  
  He seems way to shy anyway, dosent like the spotlight.
  
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  November 28, 2021 11:31am
  - peterwn
    
    He was interim leader by default because he was deputy leader. Caucus probably formalised this so Parliamentary services knew where they stood with regard to payroll, security, etc.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:13pm
- nathie
  
  Meethinks whoever becomes leader (assuming Bridges, Mitchell, Luxon, Bishop etc), that Reti stays on as Deputy.
  
  Yes I know the idea floated of giving the Deputy job to Willis or Stanford has a lot of merit (they are hard working, publicly acceptable etc) … but retaining Reti as Deputy will bring a lot of kudos to National.
  
  I’m also saying this because it is clear, that whomever becomes leader (Bridges, Mitchell, Luxon, Bishop etc) will NOT have widespread support from within National and with the public.
  
  Shane Reti though crosses all boundaries (left and right), has immense credibility and mana (especially with the Left-Stream-Media). So keep him in a very senior position. Particularly with covid still being a major media and public issue.
  
  (I’m not sure that he would make the leader cut though, although if it did happen, great, but methinks Reti’s talents are being the rock of support for the leader and hard working quiet achiever)!
  
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  November 28, 2021 12:00pm
  - peterwn
    
    The female vote is critical and needs the most focus. An earlier analysis by DPF strongly showed this. More women than men turned against National in the last election. Therefore either the leader or deputy MUST be female.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:09pm
    - alloytoo
      
      The leader was female, and that seemed to turn off many women voters.
      
      I suspect many women in that demographic just don’t give that much of damn.
      
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      November 28, 2021 2:46pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    The National caucus would be crazy not to elevate Shane Reti. His CV is unmatched; he’s been in parliament since 2014; he’s decent; he’s mature (age 58); he has life experience; and, like the prime minister, he’s no longer a practising Mormon, meaning, hopefully, he is not driven by religionism.
    
    To provide gender and geographical balance, the deputy should be Nicola Willis.
    
    Unfortunately, it’s not going to happen. A pity, but not the end of the world.
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:55pm
- peterwn
  
  What MSM thinks counts for nothing. Mere speculation.
  In my opinion the process should be done in more depth and over a longer period (one month plus Xmas break). The Board should be involved too. Possibly a management consultant should be brought in to give advice. The new leader must have unanimous support. The Roman Catholic Church has had plenty of practice with this over the centuries especially with requiring a two-thirds majority. No, I am not quite suggesting that Parliamentary Services should install a pot belly stove in the caucus room with a highly visible chimney.
  
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  November 28, 2021 1:19pm
70andstilllearning

Amusing: Just watched Jim B on Q+A give Tame a good old headmasters lecture to the junior. All the junior could say was mm …mmm ….mm. Probably to far over his head.

Bring back Jim maybe 🙂
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November 28, 2021 9:29am
- Loddenthinks
  
  No. let’s leave Woke Jim out to pasture where he belongs.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:41am
Surely Knott

Can we go out for dinner without a fascist id? Biz.gov sends out advice yesterday, and it’s slightly different to the traffic light table.

Red Light

Food & Drink Service (Bars, cafes, restaurants) – w/out vax pass = Only Contactless

Hired Venues = w/out vax pass = “Business may only host gatherings, Restricted to 25 people per defined space, Face coverings are encouraged”

” A defined space is an indoor area that has no direct airflow to another indoor area that is being used; or an outdoor area that is separated from other outdoor areas by 2 metres. Separate spaces must be managed so that, so far as is reasonably practicable, groups do not mix entering, leaving, or using the premises.”

So it seems you can’t go to a restaurant but you can hire just a table at a restaurant. – They don’t define “hired venue” but presumably you can hire a table for your gathering as long as it meets the definition of a defined space . eg no direct airflow. (whatever that means as it’s undefined how far the airflows)

https://www.business.govt.nz/covid-19/covid-19-protection-framework/?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EC_November_26_CPF&utm_content=https://www.business.govt.nz/covid-19/covid-19-protection-framework/
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November 28, 2021 9:31am
Russ the Muss

I think hell just froze over….
No less than Jack Tame from Pravda news actually interviewed a cabinet minister and held his feet to the fire based on poor delivery accross the board especially in housing. Robertson was wriggling around like a worm on a hook. Poor Jack better watch his back ,I’m not sure his masters will endorse this holding power to account lark!!! Credit where credit is due!
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November 28, 2021 9:46am
- gorse
  
  I think Jack is working out what horse to back. Change of Government coming up, don’t back the losers.
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:16am
kevn

Jim B?
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November 28, 2021 9:49am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Bolger?
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:20am
Maggy Wassilieff

If you bother to read this article in Newshub on vulture bees, you could easily believe that:

1. These meat-eating bees are a recent discovery
and
2. They have just evolved their meat-eating habit

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/11/scientists-discover-bee-that-has-evolved-the-ability-to-eat-flesh.html

And so, you’re led along the path to thinking that OMG… our cute little honey bees could become wasps overnight.

But sadly, our intrepid Newshub Repeater failed to realise that folks have known of the feeding habits of tropical Vulture/Carrion bees since at least 1982 and there is nothing in the referenced scientific paper to suggest the time at which the switch from plant-feeding to meat-feeding occurred … seems to be anytime within the last 80 Million Years or so.
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November 28, 2021 9:53am
- Pharmachick
  
  Thanks Maggy – I just looked them up, apparently:
  
  “These “vulture” bees belong to the corbiculate apid clade, which is known for its ancient association with a small group of core microbiome phylotypes. ”
  
  Doesn’t sound recent.
  
  Here’s the ref for the interested:
  https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/mBio.02317-21
  
  BTW: hello all, hope you’ve been well.
  
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  November 28, 2021 3:15pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Good to see you back. Been waiting for your sound reasoning to return.
    
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    November 28, 2021 4:22pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Work has been phenomenally busy…
      
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      November 29, 2021 10:13am
yossarian

Neil Oliver on a roll…

Neil Oliver: 'We can only presume that too many of us were seen to be awakening from the toxic trance into which we had been put by propaganda from the nudge unit… With fear on the wane it was plainly time to cast another spell.' pic.twitter.com/sbpvblwVrJ— GB News (@GBNEWS) November 27, 2021
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November 28, 2021 9:56am
Southern Raider

Anybody else thinking this mortgage broker isn’t the person you should be turning to around home loan advice, let alone anything else financial?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/housing-affordability/300451785/mega-landlords-new-parents-sell-home-instantly-priced-out-of-moving-up-ladder
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November 28, 2021 10:00am
- Loddenthinks
  
  $1uffed doing its usual divisive bollocks this morning as per usual – headline articles on “mega-landlords” and how many houses they own and “bosses earning 40 times their employees’ salary” as if either of those things were remotely relevant.
  
  Strangely, the list of “mega-landlords” omits Kainga Ora, the country’s largest mega-landlord and undoubtedly one of the worst, which also out-bid all other prospective purchasers this week on a large Bay of Plenty sub-division. I guess it’s easy to do that with a bottomless supply of other people’s money, and let’s face it – every enterprise that the government undertakes is invariably more successful, productive, efficient and to a better standard than the private sector would deliver. Oh wait….
  
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  November 28, 2021 10:46am
- Colville
  
  Sold their house and are “priced out” within a month? Total bullshit.
  
  What has happened is the banks (that he works with every day!!) have tightened credit supply and shafted him.
  Utter stupidity to sell without having somewhere to go..so now they will be paying massive rents and not be able to save while their savings (equity) is going backwards in the bank due to rampant inflation. Or they buy small and cheap and they have moved sideways in the market at a $30K cost and achieved nothing.
  
  Thanks Jacinda!
  
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  November 28, 2021 11:41am
lazza

Quote:

“Confess to having difficulty matching the Job seekers number with the historic low unemployment rates recently announced, but I’m sure they are completely accurate, no fudge factor has been applied”.

(Sarc)? … surely?

If not, then the subtlety … escapes me.

The unbelievably! low unemployment rates advertised (crowed over by this useless government) hides the reality and has no logical basis in the face of the economic facts.

Cite whole sectors of our economy trashed, artificial and unsustainable monetary pump- priming, add a financially naïve and economically illiterate socialist finance minister … and! a grandstanding “I am” egotistical Reserve Bank governor.

I call total BS on the posted (preposterous) unemployment figures

This will not end well.
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November 28, 2021 10:18am
Truman lodge

I wonder when the new strain will make it into the comunnity? Maybe an emergency 4pm news conference with a go hard go early mantra.

If you can’t stamp out delta how can you stamp out the unicorn varient or what ever it’s called. Next year is going to be hell with lockdowns and micro lockdowns with traffic light changes,Masks and weird requirements.

But we will not push back and do as we are told.
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November 28, 2021 10:19am
Fletch

According to a story in The Guardian, reports out of Africa are saying Omicron is pretty mild so far. Is hard to know who to believe.

[D]r Angelique Coetzee, chair of the South African Medical Association and a practising GP based in Pretoria, said it was “premature” to make predictions of a health crisis.

“It’s all speculation at this stage. It may be it’s highly transmissible, but so far the cases we are seeing are extremely mild,” she said. “Maybe two weeks from now I will have a different opinion, but this is what we are seeing. So are we seriously worried? No. We are concerned and we watch what’s happening. But for now we’re saying, ‘OK: there’s a whole hype out there. [We’re] not sure why.’”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/26/south-africa-b11529-covid-variant-vaccination
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November 28, 2021 10:38am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How does anyone know? How do they test for it or otherwise diagnose it? Another PCR test, if so where did they get the fragments to compare?
  
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  November 28, 2021 1:18pm
- tf78
  
  I watched an interview on Muriel Newman’s post today with Craig Kelly and a South African front line doctor. He explained after experiencing trial and error with the first wave he noticed most people got mild symptoms which just disappeared and they were fine. Others felt fine then on the eight day they went down hill again. He concluded that the spike proteins left the virus and the body then had an allergic reaction to them and people got quite ill. He treated them with various medicines but mainly antihistamines. Very interesting when you look at it logically.
  
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  November 28, 2021 4:55pm
Lee C

I wonder if this applies to our Political Parties?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNXQ2pAa8C4
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November 28, 2021 10:48am
- Steve Todd
  
  Sorry, Lee. I’m not going to bother. You didn’t give me sufficient information to make sure I wouldn’t be wasting my time.
  
  This is the Gold Standard for introducing fellow Kiwibloggers to video links: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/11/general_debate_27_november_2021.html#comment-3073600.
  
  I’m not suggesting we should all be quite as comprehensive in our descriptions as to what we can expect to see, as Man Among the Ruins was on that occasion — which I appreciated — but we should certainly be more explanatory than you, and many others before you, were.
  
  As Maggie Pie would say — just saying.
  
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  November 28, 2021 2:18pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree with you.
    
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    November 28, 2021 5:09pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Thanks, Benedict.
      
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      November 28, 2021 5:13pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Let’s go Brandon.
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/during-indiana-rutgers-game-students-belt-out-viral-f-joe-biden-chant/?
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November 28, 2021 10:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I seem to recall some Kiwibloggers being upset with the ‘f**k John Key’ song etc.
  Political discourse need a little more civility and a little less hysteria, don’t you think, Steve?
  
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  November 28, 2021 11:07am
  - mandk
    
    And I seem to recall the song that KBers were upset about was the one that talked about raping John Key’s daughter – the one some lefties were excusing as just being a bit edgy.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:23pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Oh but surely these “demeaning chants” aren’t supposed to happen to the left, only to the right as they are the only ones that deserve it ! And how can the man elected with by far the largest vote in US history possibly be so unpopular, I mean, Joe’s a legend, a uniter not a divider, someone who can all the “adults” back in charge !
    
    Joe would never ring a foreign President and ask him to do something for a tangible quid pro quo to make Joe look good would he, because that would be an impeachable offence !
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:26pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The John Key was a song with unbelievable lyrics.
    FJB is a chant, not a song. Stop being a silly boy
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:34pm
    - Mike
      
      Not buying your hair-splitting there, Steve. Most people are happy to abuse those they dislike politically but start drawing a line when abuse is directed at their own favourites.
      
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      November 28, 2021 6:25pm
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore) Some of the people singing the FJB song will be Dems suffering buyers regret.
  
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  November 28, 2021 5:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yer, but get them to admit it!
    Just like Jaspinda voters – tell ya what, many in the Remmers area
    
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    November 28, 2021 6:17pm
lazza

Barry:

“Prime Minister, can you give us an assurance that there will be a Royal Commission held into the government’s handling of the covid-19 pandemic … please?

PM (and frowny look):

“Next question … Tova?… Anyone …?
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November 28, 2021 10:53am
Tony

Initial indications are that the symptoms of this Omocron strain are quite mild. Consistent with what is to be expected with virus evolution.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/

If that is the case, we should probably import it here and let it rip. Then it would overwhelm the nasty delta strain and leave us with something not much different to the common cold.
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November 28, 2021 10:54am
Lee C

What is Ardern’s net worth this week?

Is there a chart available?
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November 28, 2021 11:00am
- kevn
  
  @Lee… Good luck with that. It will be a fizzer.
  The army of advisers have it all covered. Up.
  
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  November 28, 2021 12:04pm
Benedict Yu

Walking in Christchurch yesterday. Came across a memorial to the 960 people in Christchurch who died in 1918 from influenza over a 6 week period. Several thousand died in New Zealand over two waves. And the country had a population of a little over one million.

This was at the end of the Great War in which 8000 soldiers had died and tens of thousands wounded.

I was reflecting that both those tragedies make covid look trivial.

May those brave people rest in peace.
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November 28, 2021 11:05am
- Doc Holliday
  
  So how might the Covid-19 pandemic have looked by now if we had done nothing?
  
  And do you think SARS-CoV-2 has finished with us?
  
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  November 28, 2021 12:02pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I have never suggested that we should have done nothing. But lockdowns, borrowing 100 billion and vaccine passes… Well no.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:44pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Then what?
      
      C’mon, Benedict. You’re one of the Great Covid Oracles here; what would you have done — starting from February 2020?
      
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      November 28, 2021 3:05pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        What I said at the time. Quarantine the old and vulnerable. Invest massively in ICU capacity. Invest massively in a testing regime. All positive folk isolated at home with heavy fines for leaving home.
        
        And most importantly get in the front of the queue for vaccines instead of last.
        
        And I would not have been so stupid as to try to “eliminate” a virus.
        
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        November 28, 2021 4:08pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Most of which you said — if, indeed, you said it — not so much “at the time”, but with the benefit of hindsight.
        
        And, that being said, your prescription — or that of an alternative fifth-term National government — would have made us no further ahead than we are today.
        
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        November 28, 2021 4:33pm
      - tf78
        
        Steve, how about Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, antihistamines and asprin for a start. But they’re too cheap and efficient.
        
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        November 28, 2021 4:59pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      No my views are not with hindsight. I advocated those things right at the start.
      
      New Zealand already had a pandemic response plan.
      
      https://www.health.govt.nz/publication/new-zealand-influenza-pandemic-plan-framework-action
      
      It was updated in 2017. It had anticipated an influenza pandemic but that is not material. It was a plan for managing a highly contagious virus with a mortality rate well above what we see with seasonal flu, AND with the eventual emergence of a vaccine.
      
      Nowhere in that plan does it say “lock down Auckland for three months.”
      
      And don’t defend the indefensible. The slowness on the vaccine roll out was outrageous.
      
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      November 28, 2021 4:46pm
      - tf78
        
        That was pretty much the same plan they had for the Spanish Flu, so nothing changes in 100 years.
        
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        November 28, 2021 5:00pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Okay.
        
        I just want commenters who say something shouldn’t have been done, to say what, in their opinion, should have been done, instead.
        
        You mention the pandemic response plan. You imply it was ignored, and perhaps it was, but do you think a Bill English cabinet would have done anything different, given that it would have received the exact same advice that the Jacinda Ardern cabinet received? I say, of course not.
        
        The response, around the edges, would have been a bit different, sure, but, overall, Cabinet, of whatever stripe, would have accepted, and acted upon, the advice received (from officials). That means, yes, there would have been lockdowns.
        
        The big question is, would a Bill English cabinet have opened the border to returning New Zealanders from Australia in July, which led to Delta arriving here? That, we’ll never know.
        
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        November 28, 2021 5:36pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “but do you think a Bill English cabinet would have done anything different, given that it would have received the exact same advice that the Jacinda Ardern cabinet received? ”
        
        No idea. If they had done the same they would have been just as stupid. We will never know.
        
        I am not some cheer leader for the National Party.
        
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        November 28, 2021 7:01pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        I am not some cheer leader for the National Party.
        
        Happy to accept that.
        
        But you denied your views have been put up with the benefit of hindsight, then mentioned the previous National government’s pandemic response plan, implying that that plan would have been followed were National in its fourth, and now, fifth term.
        
        We don’t know that. Indeed, it is highly unlikely the Labour government decided not to follow it, just because it was devised under the previous government. It would not have been followed on the advice of officials, who would have given that advice regardless of which government was in power.
        
        And don’t defend the indefensible. The slowness on the vaccine roll out was outrageous.
        
        Where did I defend “the indefensible”? You have blatantly “put words in my mouth”. I have only ever said that, in my opinion, the handling of the pandemic would have been little different, regardless of who was in power. Billions would still have been borrowed — how else would the wage subsidies have been financed? Or are you saying that you / National would have thrown the workers (and their families) to the wolves?
        
        It is pretty clear to me that everything that has unfolded so far, has been as a consequence of our inability to handle a major outbreak. That would have been the case even if National was still in power.
        
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        November 28, 2021 7:43pm
  - mawm
    
    At a guess; if we had stuck to the pandemic plan and protected the vulnerable and sent the rest out to play, and then vaccinated the vulnerable when the vaccine came along and left the rest out playing, and if the rest of the world had done the same and continued to move between nations, and if early treatment had been promoted and not prevented, I think that we would not have lost as many lives as the eventual total will add up to.
    Sweden has one of the lowest death/100 000 rates compared to similar European countries and an economy that has taken less of a hit, by doing almost that.
    The other factor to look at is the vaccination related morbidity and mortality both current and in the future.
    
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    November 28, 2021 1:54pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    It would have looked a hell of a lot better if we had focused on prophylactic treatments and not instead gone all in for a leaky non sterilising vaccine that offers the private benefit of reduced severity but no public benefit in reduced cases or spread.
    
    But the medical authorities, except for in a few places, continue to steadfastly ignore any such possibilities unless said treatments are expensive and pushed by the same drug firms that produce the vaccines.
    
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    November 28, 2021 2:29pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Who would down tick that? ?
  
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  November 28, 2021 12:08pm
- curry4me
  
  Benedict Yu One of whom was my great,great grandmother.
  
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  November 28, 2021 5:09pm
Maggy Wassilieff

A challenge to KB masochists…..

Read this “Stuff” article on the “deadliness” of Covid-19 and tell us if you are any the wiser than before reading it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127081564/covid19-nz-just-how-deadly-is-the-virus
17 1
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November 28, 2021 12:05pm
- Taieri
  
  Very convoluted and in the end doesn’t explain much. Maybe because it was written by “Explainer Editor” whatever it means. But the following is brilliant: “(…)the numbers in New Zealand are not representative of the risk to the population as a whole(…)”. So, what was the point of this article?
  
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  November 28, 2021 12:47pm
- Stu2
  
  Who would read all of that – needs to be a lot shorter and far more focused
  
  3 1
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  November 28, 2021 12:52pm
- Stu2
  
  It would have been interesting to put the NZ cases in the current outbreak through the calculator, but it isn’t possible.
  
  We know the:
  – case age breakdown
  – whether they were vaccinated
  
  but not the two combined (case age by vaccination status)
  
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  November 28, 2021 1:10pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I can’t bring myself to read that infantile fear pap. I can say that based on official UK and CDC data approximately 4 otherwise healthy NZers aged 50-59 are likely to be carried off by the disease. Anyone in their 50s is 10x more likely to die on the roads this year.
  
  8 2
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  November 28, 2021 1:11pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Simpler explanation:
  Prior to vaccinations the IFR (average risk of death if infected) was equal to about 10 weeks worth of your normal risk of death nearly independent of age ie oif you caught covid you would still be about 5x more likely to die of something else this year.
  
  BUT 90% of deaths are for those with serious comorbidities so for healthy people it is about one tenth of that (50x more likely to die of something else this year,
  
  And vaccination adds another 10x, meaning if a healthy person catches covid they are still 100’s of time more likely to die of something non covid this year.
  
  Covid is a total irrelevance risk wise for vast majority of NZers, and only presents real risk to people already in bad health.
  
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  November 28, 2021 3:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Puff piece done for Jaspinda by Moari.
  Shows how desperate the absent leader is getting
  
  8 3
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  November 28, 2021 4:01pm
lifesgood

Overheard two men talking at the cafe (waiting for takeaway) this morning. One man said that he had said Jacinda was doing a good job. He got shouted at, spat at and had a bottle thrown at him…and he hadn’t even left home! The men both laughed and talked about how they can’t wait for Jacinda to go.
A plane towing a trailer is over Auckland again today. I can’t read the slogan. Can anyone enlighten me? Someone is seriously chunked off methinks.
16 3
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November 28, 2021 12:25pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Banner says “TEAM OF 5 MILLION RULED BY 20 CLOWNS”
  Taxpayers Union post on FB
  
  24 4
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  November 28, 2021 2:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    https://www.facebook.com/TaxpayersUnion/photos/a.1234203066683711/4240260119411309
    
    13 4
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    November 28, 2021 2:41pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Thanks!
    
    4 1
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    November 28, 2021 3:54pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Follow them on FB
      
      2 4
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      November 28, 2021 6:25pm
Bridgenag

Partner came in with the news that the “retired’ part time worker let it slip that he collects the dole which we didn’t think he could get [own their own property etc] gets age pension and……….collects a small rent from his daughter in a $2m house in Remuera. Proudly says he pays no taxes……………. FFS

How much of the money I have earned do you think you are entitled to.
18 2
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November 28, 2021 12:45pm
- mandk
  
  Partner should dob the bloke in with a completely clear conscience.
  
  The bloke is nothing less than a thief.
  
  10 1
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  November 28, 2021 1:59pm
Alan Wilkinson

Damian Grant sums up the case against Luxon: https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300464679/national-leadership-contender-chris-luxon-is-the-standout-candidate–so-why-am-i-worried
13 3
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November 28, 2021 12:46pm
- mandk
  
  Pretty much the same article could have been written about John Key before he became leader.
  
  Yet he and his team calmly steered NZ through the GFC and the earthquakes. He made NZ a place where people wanted to live whereas they were leaving in droves under Clark.
  
  He also gave NZ an economy that independent observers were calling rockstar
  
  Funny how people stopped using that term under Ardern, long before Covid.
  
  17 3
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  November 28, 2021 1:53pm
Rusty

As I mentioned yesterday — why are the global warming alarmists in NZ not voicing their outrage and disgust at the amount of industrial smog pollution floating over the cricket ground in Kanpur, India during the match between the Black caps and India?

It is awful looking and when aerial shots show a cloud of thick smog obscuring the stadium it looks even worst.

The silence from the Greenies and the woke left here tells you they only care about trashing the rich western nations and no one else.
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November 28, 2021 2:20pm
Yvette

Police COVID-19 vaccine mandate: Deputy PM Grant Robertson not worried about losing cops despite 14 pct unvaxxed
Deputy Prime Minister Grant Robertson is not worried about losing police after mandating COVID-19 jabs despite about 14 percent of cops being unvaccinated.
Both police and Defence Force staff must have had their first dose by January 17 and the second dose by March 1, under new vaccination orders announced by Workplace Relations Minister Michael Wood on Friday.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/11/police-covid-19-vaccine-mandate-deputy-pm-grant-robertson-not-worried-about-losing-cops-despite-14-pct-unvaxxed.html
… in the midst of an Auckland crime wave, especially effecting small business owners, dairy owners in particular.

Collins, although saying she had just learnt of Bridges five-year-old misdemeanour a few days before self-immolating Thursday, apparently knew two weeks back, didn’t have the support of the Board as she stated, and re-victimised and traumatised MP Jacqui Dean, without for-warning her she was to be thrown (crushed) under a bus in the name of protecting woman’s rights – especially in the work-place, so SLAM! – Jacqui Dean woke up to the news Thursday morning.

The puzzle being: Which is the bigger, country endangering fool? – Grant Robertson or Judith Collins? And is it actually Judith for diverting attention from Robertson?
9 1
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November 28, 2021 2:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hey Joe. If you can’t get OPEC to produce more oil, you may want to check with Texas, Oklahoma, or Alaska.
Vicious rumour is they have some ………
15 4
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November 28, 2021 3:16pm
- Ehlana
  
  Or, those who think we should not use oil should stop using it themselves. Including anything derived from it, or transported using it.
  
  They could carry cards to prove their purity and would be the only people allowed into those buildings which are constructed, maintained & operated entirely without any oil-related products.
  
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  November 29, 2021 2:25pm
Fletch

The very same mutation in a virus can happen in different countries at the same time. If a variant turns up in a certain country it doesn’t mean there are cases being brought into the country from outside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdgDC9-W6Og
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November 28, 2021 3:19pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127123534/voters-in-tauranga-say-its-time-for-a-major-overhaul-of-nationals-leadership
Yet another Labour-backed article attacking the National Party, written by some non-entity ( Google “Lawrence Gullery” and see what you get ).
10 1
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November 28, 2021 4:56pm
- Inandout
  
  grey, he is an expert in story telling it is writ.
  
  3 0
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  November 28, 2021 7:12pm
Truman lodge

Hey is there a service tomorrow? 1pm or 4pm? I’m in need of salvation and guidance from our Lord?
10 4
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November 28, 2021 5:22pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If we are truly blessed we might get a double dose, but more likely we’ll get a preview of Tuesday’s sermon, Wednesday’s homily , and Thursday’s admonition.
  
  5 1
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  November 28, 2021 7:26pm
- Ehlana
  
  I’d ask if you wanted to speak to the man in charge or the woman who knows what’s going on, but this government has neither…
  
  0 0
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  November 29, 2021 2:26pm

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