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January 11, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 January 2022

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Tony Stuart

So a Labour MP has visited the Netherlands over the holidays, and will return home to MIQ shortly:

https://twitter.com/OrwellianNz84/status/1480500977128001541

I have no problem with Marja Lubeck visiting her parents, provided there was no preferential treatment for her in getting a place in MIQ. It would be great if a member of the media quizzed Chris Hipkins about this at the next media stand-up to make sure no strings were pulled to give Ms Lubeck a privilege which has been denied to thousands of Kiwis over the last couple of years.
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December 11, 2020 9:08am
- dime
  
  thats the air waitress chick right?
  
  the ones whos job seems to be to attack people on twitter.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:15am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Dunno. Never heard of her.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:37pm
  - KKKKatee
    
    That’s her.
    
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    January 11, 2022 4:05pm
- pdm
  
  OIA maybe Inv.
  
  At least you will eventually get a redacted answer of some sort.
  
  Asking Ardern, Robertson or Hipkins at a stand up will only result in that new government phenomenon `pin head dancing’ and that is never helpful or a pretty sight.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:19am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  It is interesting to note how many v recent immigrants to NZ end up as MPs in the Greens or Labour.
  
  Menendez March, Golriz, Genter, Lubeck and Pallot just to name 5
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:47am
  - Bluegrass
    
    One-issue community leaders. For their ‘community’ and block votes.
    
    Blut ist dicker als Wasser. [blood is thicker than water].
    
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    January 11, 2022 4:36pm
  - MCōs
    
    Lubeck has been here longer than Simeon Brown.
    
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    January 11, 2022 5:35pm
- David Garrett
  
  Of course she has had preferential treatment, No MP could risk being stranded overseas for months while the House sat…she’d lose her pay for a start.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:55am
  - Julie
    
    She now has an article in Ferrald claiming her “good luck” getting a spot in MIQ in the ballot and co incidentally praising Labours approach to Covid.
    She fails to mention that she was able to self isolate when she arrived in Holland something our controlling government will not allow!
    Clearly Labour are concerned at reaction to her being overseas and feel the need to explain it plus praise themselves at the same time!
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:26pm
    - Mobile Michael
      
      It’s probably correct that she got a space via the lottery, but what an extremely tone deaf, stupid thing to do.
      
      Labour will say nothing because they want this to go away. But people will remember it was a Labour MP who did it.
      
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      January 11, 2022 2:23pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        I wish people would remember Mobile. But I won’t be holding my breath. Nothing sticks to this lot. Teflon… sponsored by DuPont maybe??
        Actually on a tangent from that comment. If you’ve not watched Black Waters – a true story based around Du Pint being exposed for poisoning the planet with Teflon. Mark Ruffalo plays the main character who exposed them. A bloody good watch.
        
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        January 11, 2022 6:50pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Julie the Herald piece is obvious damage control straight from the 9th floor s you’ve rightly noted.
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:49pm
  - MCōs
    
    You and I don’t know how she obtained an MIQ spot, but she must have had it before she left.
    Perhaps she put her name in the hat like everyone else?
    
    I dare say a lot of the same people who grizzle about her think Novak Djokovic should get special treatment.
    
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    January 11, 2022 5:46pm
    - Julie
      
      In case you had not noticed you do not need MIQ in Australia nor did she have to go unto MIQ in The Netherlands, she could isolate at home , this is despite there having much higher active numbers of covid than our miserable 14 today!
      
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      January 11, 2022 8:44pm
- RightFirstTime
  
  Which one in the photo was Marja?
  
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  January 11, 2022 12:03pm
- Bea Rossini
  
  #dirtypolitics
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:30pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

The Pope has condemned cancel culture, remarking that under the guise of defending diversity, a kind of one-track thinking is taking shape.

Nailed it.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/01/pope-hits-out-at-ideological-colonisation-cancel-culture.html
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January 11, 2022 8:01am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  He might just be worried that too many historical figures of Catholicism are getting cancelled…
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:38am
- krazykiwi
  
  I suggest the Catholic church is the founder of cancel culture. It was formerly called excommunication and rendered the target unable to participate is society.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:30pm
  - Overworked
    
    Agree entirely. They were also keen on permanent cancellation by burning alive, esp stroppy women.
    
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    January 11, 2022 2:50pm
    - NoFax
      
      The Church never burnt anyone – always the State.
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:34pm
      - MCōs
        
        Don’t mention the Spanish Inquisition.
        Basically it was a form of thought control; cancel culture on steroids you might say.
        
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        January 11, 2022 8:15pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        It is only in recent times that Church and State have been separated?
        
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        January 12, 2022 12:32am
    - kowtow
      
      Not exclusive to the papists .
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:42pm
      - Bea Rossini
        
        Nor was child rape but they did set a high bar.
        
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        January 11, 2022 6:37pm
  - NoFax
    
    Krazykiwi Excommunication isn’t what you think it is. It’s denial of the eucharist until forgiveness through confession. Given that it wasn’t unto Vatican Council II that most Catholics only recieved once a year at most. You may be confusing Protestatism approach such as Calvin at Geneva. Which I think today’s woksters are the intellectual heirs.
    
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    January 11, 2022 4:33pm
  - kowtow
    
    Non sense . All societies have practised exclusion.
    
    It’s also in the Old Testament, so the Papists certainly didn’t start it.
    
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    January 11, 2022 4:49pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      It has its roots in tribalism, where exclusion from the community could literally mean death (starvation, attack by wild animals etc).
      
      And even today, ostracism , whether actual, in cyber space, or even at the local tennis club, can mean social/existential death for some.
      
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      January 11, 2022 5:23pm
Flossie

Yet another covid expert saying kids should not be going back to school on the due date. One thing that apparently needs attention is carbon dioxide detection equipment to monitor the amount of re-breathed air, and better ventilation. How much re-breathed air are we inhaling because of these disgusting masks we are forced to wear? After a very short period of being masked I feel quite unwell.
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January 11, 2022 8:04am
- kevn
  
  @Floss…. Be sure to have your nose out to breathe through.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:13am
- ClanMcleod
  
  It’s narrative control to help “nudge” people to get their kids jabbed. Anyone doing so hasn’t read the available data and information properly.
  Free choice and all that, but the government and “experts” are lying. Or at the very least, massively overselling the jabs. The don’t do what they were supposed to. They are causing problems. There is no long term data available re the impact of multiple boosters.
  Extreme caution is advised.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:23am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Another of my acquaintances almost died from his first jab. He has a heart condition, and decided early December that he had better get the jab, although he did not want it.
    Two hours later he felt very ill, and had the presence of mind to ring the ambulance. He was taken straight to hospital & put on assisted breathing, and they found that he had developed pneumonia in a matter of hours. They had to drain his lungs of fluid daily for 10 days, and he finally came home after 2 weeks.
    Do you reckon he’ll get his second jab & booster?You’ve gotta be joking.
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:13am
    - Faroffsound
      
      No surprise there. A family member had her first jab – required for work – and ended up at A & E the next day with pneumonia.
      
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      January 11, 2022 2:40pm
    - KKKKatee
      
      It happens alright. Vaccine injury/death is the elephant in the room which needs to be addressed.
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:34pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      DonB: But team Cindy/Ashley will not give him an exemption. So it’s stay at home for him now. It’s criminal. Hope your acquaintance is doing ok.
      
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      January 11, 2022 7:00pm
- kowtow
  
  Sunetra Gupta, prof of theoretical epidemeology at Dept of Zoology , Uni of Oxford.
  
  Totally against mask mandates and vaxxing children and young adults.
  
  See Daily Telegraph 10.1.22
  
  [Mod note: (may be paywalled) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/10/masking-children-illogical-irrational/ ]
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:33am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    In know who I would trust not only based on job performance/experience but my personal experience of this woman and her feral offspring.
    I am not longer prepared to be led or advised by the most fearful in society and if we don’t start fighting back 2020-today will be our lives forever, do you want that?
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:13am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  It is beyond bullshit Flossie – any excuse to shut us down. Quite frankly, where are all the politicians in our country planning to avoid any ‘omicron catastrophe’ … that’s right, all on holiday. I see the herald also printed a story about the death of a three year old in oz … died of covid … but the poor little fellow was already considered palliative with a rare genetic condition … I think I’m already over 2022
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:27am
- EssenX
  
  Thankfully, a number of paediatricians have come out and said that delaying the reopening of schools, with no Omicron outbreak and so few Delta cases, is stupid.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:47am
- fisho
  
  In the old days we would’ve just opened some windows and doors to create cross-flow.
  These clowns get their rocks off on this stuff, it’s a power and status thing. Tossers.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:14am
- Overworked
  
  Keep the windows open and wedge the doors open too. That leaves them till June to get it sorted.
  
  Edit: sorry Fisho, didn’t see your post
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:54pm
- KKKKatee
  
  We excrete 70% of our waste via the lungs. It makes absolutely no sense to mask people up. We now have people running around in a constant state of hypoxia. That is not good for anyone’s health. Until, as a nation, we continue to comply, nothing will change. We are our own worst enemy.
  
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  January 11, 2022 4:10pm
  - Bea Rossini
    
    “ We now have people running around in a constant state of hypoxia.”
    
    No we don’t. Wear a mask – Asian countries have been doing it for yonks – maybe they know something. Besides – you can take it off once you get in the car.
    
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    January 11, 2022 6:42pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Bea: Take it off once you’re in the car??? Take it off the second you leave the store doors for god sake!! I’m currently waiting for my exemption. Yay!!
      
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      January 11, 2022 7:03pm
      - Bea Rossini
        
        For what purpose other than to protest the fact that it is a public health measure under a Labour government. Stop being such a child.
        
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        January 11, 2022 9:19pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Bea: I’m pretty certain the only place a mask is mandated is when you’re “inside a business premise”. Not when you leave the building and enter the big wide world. It is not a government requirement for anyone to wear it in the wide open spaces of your community. You have made that decision on your own back, presumably because you’ve been listening to the MSM and it’s fear porn. I don’t mind being called a child by you. Let’s face it, the government treats us citizens that way. I do laugh at the people like you wondering the streets wearing the face nappy. I just laugh and think to myself .. there goes another one of Cindy’s ?’le. Each to their own Bea. Each to their own. You just carry on with the Stockholm Syndrome you have acquired and be happy.
        
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        January 11, 2022 10:40pm
- Fight4NZ
  
  But they work.
  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/01/masks-study-covid-bangladesh/
  
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  January 12, 2022 12:36am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Fight: And I can post links proving they don’t, along with a video clip where Dear PM Cindy, Nano Girl and a woman from the MoH tell us they’re useless.
    
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    January 12, 2022 9:26am
Yvette

Brian Tamaki insists attending Christchurch ‘family funday picnic’ to share ‘public message of hope’ didn’t breach bail

Is there such a charge as deminishing or besmirching the image and reputation of the Police, or is that in the as yet undelivered (like almost everything else) “hate legislation”, and how many more times can I remark on the Commissioner’s credibility demise, in relation to Brian Tamaki, before they arrest me for doing that – or can I claim someone else, like a fucking burglar (probable non-callout crime) used my iPad, while I was out on a ‘family funday picnic’?
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January 11, 2022 8:06am
- Surely Knott
  
  If protesting during lockdown was a crime it should have been consistently and fairly enforced. It wasn’t. BLM protests weren’t prosecuted. And no outbreaks have been noted from either protest In the largest grab of our civil rights Tāmaki has organised peaceful outdoor (low risk of spread) protest – and uses his democratic right to protest to defend our bill of rights and democracy. I dont belong to a church or subscribe to organised religion but at this stage with the mainstream parties scapegoating, mandating and marginalising sections of society Tāmaki is standing up for what matters – unity, freedom, democracy, and kindness.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:34am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘BLM protests weren’t prosecuted.’
    
    Coster went to one of their meetings in a church somewhere .
    
    For the sake of consistency and the Peel Principles he now needs to front up at one of the Bishes “churches”.
    
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    January 11, 2022 9:15am
    - David Garrett
      
      Kowtow: I’m being a bit of a legal pedant I know, but these references to the “Peel Principles” are really irrelevant. The only thing that is legally relevant in 2021 is the contents of the Policing Act 2008. Unless they are in there – and I don’t think they are – the “Peel Principles” are nothing more than of historical relevance.
      
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      January 11, 2022 10:03am
      - Yvette
        
        David, beyond any law that may be legally relevant, Commissioner Coster has publicly involved himself to a degree that with Brian Tamaki’s seemingly continued infringement, either new cases, or disregard of court conditions imposed for earlier mis-steps, that the media coverage appears to now require Police follow-up action to not seem manipulated and ineffective.
        This is after a reported Commissioner Zoom discussion before the first charging of Tamaki, subsequent talks, an attempt to recruit (so organising) the Human Rights Commissioner Paul Hunt to speak at a family funday picnic, turning back from Levin on his lawyer’s advice – so showing some intent to attend (verboten, too) the Thursday protest outside Parliament.
        When, by Coster’s own media involvement, will he be seen to do anything more than just talk?
        
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        January 11, 2022 10:24am
      - kowtow
        
        DG
        
        The references are in there because Coster himself explicitly referenced “policing by consent” in his justification for the race roadblocks .
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121400826/coronavirus-iwi-checkpoints-were-about-safety-and-discretion
        
        Now whether he is aware of the Peel Principles or not is another matter but in any event many of the police forces of the Common Law world are largely beholden to them , as they are the foundation of for want of a better term the culture , traditions and history of said police forces.And that still applies today.
        
        As to strict legalness of said principles I agree , however our laws do draw on the tradition of written codes , many ancient , and that’s why in law school today they still background them with references to Hamubari , Roman codes and the Ten commandments .
        
        Indeed the judge in Donoghue V Stevenson wanted to include in law the principle of “my brothers’ keeper” . Even though that’s not explicitly stated .
        
        And that m’lud is the case for the defence.
        
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        January 11, 2022 11:49am
  - rouppe
    
    Plus note that government protests have now been billed for traffic control whereas extinction rebellion and school strike for climate never were.
    
    Coincidence?
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:21am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Of course not, the process IS the punishment. This reveals the underlying fascist nature of our current government.
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:03pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Freedom is the right not to be locked up for opposing a govt which has failed in its duty of care. When Fauci and Gates started this fiasco and were known to have a financial interest in the outcome why did those who had the duty of care not reject it?
  
  It is becoming increasing obvious that this is plandemic and the people are being suckered. A crime against humanity.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:50am
  - igm
    
    Talk about shutting down freedom of speeech and right to protest if it does not concur with government narrative . . .
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127463307/council-sends-14000-traffic-management-bill-to-antigovernment-protesters
    If ths had been a muslim or te reo gathering there would have been nothing said.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:02am
    - renderer
      
      Or a gang gathering
      
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      January 11, 2022 10:36am
  - mawm
    
    CD now admit that 75% of covid deaths had at least 4 morbidities and were ill to start with. Maybe our government will stump up with some real facts one day.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:15am
    - KKKKatee
      
      Just like the little 3 yr old Australian but who died recently. The headline was outstanding. But when read the story, a different scenario whether [altogether]. Sure with it, rather than of it as he had multiple health issues from birth. His health was already compromised and he was never going to miraculously recover from his situation.
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:14pm
fernglas

It’s great to see the colonies having a race to the bottom, but so far Australia’s pathetic approach to Djokovic is marginally more hilarious than New Zealand fretting about whether school kids might actually catch a virus that is five times less likely to harm them than their parents.
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January 11, 2022 8:08am
- lastmanstanding
  
  I suspect if Djokovic turns up to the tennis he will be booed off the court. Victorians will not be happy. It may also result in violence. His Serbian supporters appear to be a hot headed bunch.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:33am
  - lifesgood
    
    Victorians are morons. They voted for Dan after all, that proves it.
    
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    January 11, 2022 9:51am
  - EssenX
    
    Djokovic and the Serbs will love the booing – its ingrained that they feel the world is “against” Serbs. If I was Victorian I’d keep quiet and stay out of it. The pile on Novak is no different to the hate levelled at different people in NZ at times although this Spectator article is a good one about the real reasons for the anger at Novak: https://www.spectator.com.au/2022/01/hating-on-novak-has-become-a-national-sport/
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:01am
    - RiP NZ
      
      If they want a serious protest at the tennis then they need to climb the surrounding trees and pick on an 18 year old ; ‘do the Minto’
      
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      January 11, 2022 11:28am
  - Clownworld
    
    If they boo it says something about them and their ignorance. As for the Serb slur , they are a confident people who are not living in fear like NZ and Aust. I think the right word is the Serbs are resilient.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:22am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    I suspect that it will be the opposite: Djokovic will receive a standing ovation, which will obliterate the government messaging about a public outcry, and claims of consensus among the populace. They must be very nervous (“technical difficulties” will be experienced by the broadcaster, perchance?)
    
    Put yourself in a politician’s shoes: before this legal drama even arose, wouldn’t you want Djokovic to show up unmolested, known to be unvaxxed, and booed by the Covidians for it? Why would they want him to emerge as a freedom-fighting, anti-tyranny hero, as he has become now?
    
    If disgruntled Victorians have any sense and would look at the bigger picture, they’ll welcome someone publicly exposing the authoritarian rules as an affront to a free society, and not condemn the guy who gets an exemption.
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:20am
  - bronny1
    
    I was in a car this am where they had newstalk ZB on. Person after person calling in saying Novak should be thrown out, he should be booed, he should have to comply just like anyone else.
    Not a single person posed a health reason why; it was all hating and compliance and sheer nastiness. If I hadn’t already resigned from the team of 5 million this is one more reason I don’t want to be included. Just disgusting behaviour.
    However, I will be laughing if he plays and there is a covid outbreak among players, because he won’t get it, having month old natural immunity is pretty much as good as it gets!
    
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    January 11, 2022 12:59pm
    - Bloody Dago
      
      Even better, I hope he wins it. I am sure he will be motivated to shove it up the fascial hate fest/sideshow the current tournament has become
      
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      January 12, 2022 9:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Delingpole has commented:
  https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/01/10/djokovic-has-exposed-australia-as-worlds-biggest-joke/
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:51am
Tony Stuart

The rainbow pedestrian crossing in Wellington has been freshly painted for all to gayly cross the road.

https://twitter.com/GeorgeKCampbell/status/1480346002917756928

But wouldn’t it be ironic if the rainbow crossing had to be dug up because the water and wastewater infrastructure beneath it was munted?
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January 11, 2022 8:09am
- pdm
  
  More costs for Wellington ratepayers Inv.
  
  Thank goodness I am not one – mind you Hastings is not much better having closed the money making machine Splash Planet for summer because of Covid. How stupid is that?
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:58am
  - bronny1
    
    What does Inv mean? You keep using it, is it just me?
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:04pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Tony previously posted under the moniker ‘Inventory2’ and ‘Inventory’ prior to that. Calling him Inv is a bit like Original Antigenic Sin for monikers 😉
      
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      January 11, 2022 2:37pm
- Opie
  
  Good to see people piling in about the cost, but I imagine the majority of wellingtonians think it’s great
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:07am
  - Alwynn
    
    ” I imagine the majority of wellingtonians think it’s great”
    If the sample of ratepayers I have spoken to is a random group then I’m afraid your “imagine” verges on fantasy.
    The consensus leans toward the view that it is a stupid waste of money that was the crazy idea of an unlamented former mayor. He thought it was a good way of throwing a lot of taxpayer money at his arty-farty mates.
    To be fair mine was not a random sample, It excluded the dumber members of society who think that money grows on a wishing tree.
    
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    January 11, 2022 9:41am
    - krazykiwi
      
      It’s a shame the consensus makes no difference on polling day. We’ve endured cabal after cabal of eco-Marxist uselessness masquerading as representation.
      
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      January 11, 2022 2:39pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Woolly thinkers… a great illustration of Green gobbledygook.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/the-politically-loaded-issue-of-saving-aucklands-trees

Why would you cut down perfectly healthy, non-invasive trees (providing habitat, supplying organic matter to the soil, and moderating local climate) to substitute with bare ground, weeds and a few widely spaced native shrubs for the next 50 years or so?
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January 11, 2022 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  Yer but for her to be moaning about “Ecology is being increasingly idealised into a simplistic binary of native equals good/non-native equals bad.” when her whole article is couched in the same language used by the people doing this is somewhat ironic.
  
  She’s part of the problem herself.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:56am
  - jgw739
    
    “Ecology is being increasingly idealised into a simplistic binary of native equals good/non-native equals bad.”
    
    Heh. Sounds like the Governments view of our population.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:50am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    Some of us quite like the variety of colours provided by exotics, which make a pleasant change from the ubiquitous tangata flora, but we obviously need to decolonize our thinking.
    
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    January 11, 2022 12:14pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Faith/feelz based policy that somehow zero change and reversion to some romanticised arcadian terra-nullius ideal is best.
  
  The universe is an unthinking machine that doesn’t care what happens, mass extinctions, snowball earth etc are a reality of earths past and future. There is no particular reason to favour any plant or species over any other except what we as humans in our rich misanthropic conceits prefer (and rationalize)
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:12am
- MCōs
  
  There’s more angles to this story.
  I live on the lower slopes of Mangere Mountain and the exotic trees were removed a year or so ago.
  At present additional walking paths are being constructed around the summit.
  There used to be a herd of cattle up there too, but they’re gone now. They used to keep the grass down & form track that were handy for negotiating the slopes. Trouble was there was shit everywhere.
  Now the tracks and the shit has gone and the grass is long. Kids love it.
  I’ve seen old photos of Mount Mangere and there wasn’t a tree or bush to be seen.
  
  Auckland has far more trees than the council can look after. A few years ago one fell over in Cornwall Park and squashed some cars. It was rotten inside, but it hadn’t recently been checked.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:21am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’ve seen old photos of Mount Mangere and there wasn’t a tree or bush to be seen.
    
    This was the condition of most of the Auckland-South Auckland lowlands (i.e. Not the Waitakere & Hunua Ranges) at the time of first written records and sketches (1820-1840s)…..acres of “monotonous brown fern ”
    (bracken) and a few patches of scrub (manuka/tutu).
    
    The district had been burnt frequently in the first few centuries of Maori settlement (14thC – 19thC).
    
    As Alan Esler wrote in 2004: “The forest in Auckland is not old…Probably no native trees are more than 200 years old”
    (Wild Plants in Auckland : AUP) .
    
    The problem with removing stock from a grassed reserve close to habitation is fire in summer when dry rank grass seems to be a magnet for fire-bugs.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/118102163/fire-on-mangere-mountain-auckland
    
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    January 11, 2022 2:46pm
    - MCōs
      
      That fire was located near the top of the maunga and I don’t recall the cattle scrambling up there.
      Having said that the grass lower down does get pretty dry and I’ve wondered if it might be a fire hazard.
      That fire occurred well before the exotic trees were removed and in the same area.
      
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      January 11, 2022 8:00pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  I objected to the cutting down of mature Phoenix Palms at a golf club. I was called “racist” by one of the Green loonies that seem to have taken over the once respectable if somewhat eccentric green movement. The logic was stunning. Surely the idea that only “natives” are allowed to survive is the epitome of racism?
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:44am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Phoenix palms (canary Is) are a menace in northern NZ. (at least from Gisborne northwards).
    
    Their fruits are readily distributed by birds… hence seedling/sapling/thickets of phoenix palms around and within any patches of native bush, garden, lawn, cemeteries, etc….
    
    and the buggas don’t die very often…. lifespan of 100+ years (probably more like 200+).
    
    and don’t ever ignore a phoenix palm cut/jab
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018682989/phoenix-palm-beware-the-undercover-menace-in-your-garden
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/122329184/more-than-2000-injury-claims-for-runins-with-phoenix-palms-in-last-three-years#:~:text=Phoenix%20palm%20fronds%20are%20sharp%20and%20toxic.&text=Phoenix%20palm%20fronds%20are%20sharp%20and%20toxic%2C%20the%20tip%20often,joints%20and%20tendons%20are%20affected.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:38pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I know about the danger, I am the one who pruned the lower leaves every couple of years to promote trunk growth. In 30 years nobody has ever been injured. I’ve watched them all this time and have yet to see them growing spontaneously anywhere else?
      We’ve planted natives, they hate being on their own and don’t do well.
      There is minimal native bird life on the golf course, however the surrounding residential areas with fruit and flowering trees are teeming with tui, wood pigeon, and many others.
      I’ve got no particular love for the phoenix other than its been there 30 years and done no harm that I could see.
      
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      January 11, 2022 5:05pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I’ve watched them all this time and have yet to see them growing spontaneously anywhere else?
        
        Where do you live?
        
        They come up in tracks, tarseal paths, etc all around mature palms in Gisborne.
        
        here’s a pic of a Phoenix palm sapling in an Auckland bush remnant..
        https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/SC0601/S00029/attitude-change-prescribed-for-weedy-auckland.htm
        
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        January 11, 2022 5:29pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Apart from injury to people not paying attention, what harm do they do? Other than not being native? Genuine question.
      I find the obsession with native only quite bizarre. Who decides when we capture time in a bottle?
      
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      January 12, 2022 12:05am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Maggie I couldn’t reply to your other comment. What is it about phoenix palms that makes them a menace? Genuine question. The reason we aren’t seeing them spread like you’ve indicated is presumably because it’s a golf course and easier to control? They are quite slow growing so not too difficult to get rid off once they are spotted.
      I like how they frame the course. If they were taking over the native stuff I’d be concerned but they aren’t. I’d love more “pretty” natives, but most are very slow growing and don’t like to be out “on their own.”
      I’ve planted Nikaus and other natives around a pond. They seem to enjoy the water and the shade from the nearby macrocarpas.
      To be clear, I love NZ bush, I live close to it, almost in it. But I fail to see the point in the extremism of some in the “nativism” movement who want to wipe out anything just because it isn’t “native”. Lot’s of pragmatic and/or beautiful stuff has been brought to NZ, by all people who have arrived here.
      
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      January 12, 2022 8:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  “Clear all exotic trees”?
  Don’t they know that many or most native trees are much slower growing, some by hundreds of years? Why do we grow radiata pine in preference to totara? Can they harvest totara regularly on a 30 year cropping cycle?
  Apart from pushy Maori spiritual issues, exotics are much to be preferred as a cover and productive plant.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:02am
  - MCōs
    
    There’s a big old radiata pine that’s passed its used by date down the my street. Ugliest bloody tree you ever saw.
    Those things are like weeds in our environment. So are Norfolk Pines.
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:54am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They have their uses and use by dates. Most of our housing stock is built from them.
      
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      January 11, 2022 1:10pm
      - MCōs
        
        They are now.
        In the good old days framing timber was rimu.
        Down the road here a number of older houses have been demolished and carted off the the tip.
        With the current cost of timber, and refuse disposal, one would think it would be economical to reuse a lot of that stuff.
        
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        January 11, 2022 2:33pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Depends on the Rimu, sapwood can get badly infested by borer, heartwood is much harder and rarely affected much.
        
        Good kauri though, often used as weatherboard before the 1920’s and again for a period around 1930 or so is usually pretty valuable. Once organised the demolition and clean up of the site of a factory built in stages around 1900-1930, and got the whole job paid for by the value of the large Kauri beams the later part was built of. In the Depression years imported timber was unavailable, so the Oregon that the earlier plant had been constructed of was substituted by Kauri.
        
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        January 11, 2022 4:36pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Yep, it was rimu. That came by the truckload in random lengths and we chose the straightest pieces by sight for framing. Now that framing, if it needs attention is a right sod. To nail it, a hole needs to be drilled. Even borer can make their vacation homes there without destroying the piece. It did its job.
        
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        January 11, 2022 5:06pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Modern fast growth NZ radiata is ridiculously soft, weak as hell an not much good for anything beyond pulp products. I wouldn’t use it for a house framing if i had a choice. There are better, denser woods available from cold climate northern hemisphere for far cheaper (typically ~$2/meter for 4×2 vs $4-5/meter in NZ) Will only get worse now that NZ wages are so high. Only thing protecting locally produced crap wood is NZ’s biosecurity rules making imports expensive.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:46pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Actually Radiata makes perfectly adequate framing timber, and is more or less the only “farmed” timber that is. All the other timber used is old growth.
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:38pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Have you used SG8?
      
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      January 11, 2022 5:07pm
- ByGolly
  
  They’ll be going after Cornwall Park next.
  Too many “exotics”.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:31am
  - lifesgood
    
    Better bloody not!
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:50am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Hagley Park in Christchurch and many other places in that city rejoice in well kept exotic trees.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:11pm
Benedict Yu

Really impressive study about the protective effects of high Vitamin D levels against serious COVID illness.

https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/13/10/3596

Surely it is time for the government to employ a COVID strategy that has some actions other than the vaccine.
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January 11, 2022 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  Surely it’s time for the Media Pardy to do the same.
  
  The populace has been held captive by the vax strategy , largely due to the MSM refusing to do its job , rather than being its masters’ voice.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:36am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  We live in a post evidence-led medicine world. Unless Big Pharma can make megabucks off a treatment it won’t be implemented by the myriad institutions they have captured control of through advertising, funding and career opportunities.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:03am
- Flossie
  
  Why are we delaying having omicron enter NZ when we have the advantage of summer time and being outside in the fresh air. There’s a good deal of free Vit D in that sunshine
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:09am
  - Sacha
    
    There is research that shows that even copious amounts of sunshine do not always let the body absorb enough Vit D. And even people on ‘healthy’ diets are deficient.
    In addition, if you are obese, vitamin D is not easily released as it is held in fat cells and requires Vit K2 to be released for immunity purposes. Hence the availability of Vit D3 with VitK2 added. And apparently many people who get plenty of sunshine, still have low Vit D3 levels, and could do with supplements often in the order of 4000 u/day – and up to 10,000 if symptomatic with the Covid19.
    And Zinc.
    Don’t forget the zinc!
    
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    January 11, 2022 12:04pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      So – no sun tan lotion on the arms, but a solid zinc-based sun block in the nose will do it.
      
      Looks like Rod Marsh was ahead of the game.
      
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      January 11, 2022 1:50pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s a crime for the govt and others in power not to.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:03am
- dannz
  
  Also interesting to note this study, not sure if is has been posed before?
  – Omicron still showing considerably milder
  – No sign of negative VE in this one
  – Considerable effectiveness against hospitalisation with Omicron even with only two doses.
  
  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1044481/Technical-Briefing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf
  (Tables 4 and 6)
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:27am
- krazykiwi
  
  Totally agree. While many smugly look at Omi as exhibiting modest or even benign outcomes, what most NZers don’t factor in is the low level of antibody seroprevalence in our population on account of our hermit-kingdom strategy. Omi will be more damaging here than it has been in Europe. Omni’s vaccine escape and the negative vaccine efficacy represent dry tinder. Wise leadership would already be promoting individual and sector early treatment protocols. We’re not seeing any of this, of course, but rather continued crowing about vaxx coverage as if it was a magic wand. Bloomfield has blood on his hands here. He knows this is the truth.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:49pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    We also have a huge number of obese polynesians who will have a worse time of it. USA is 36% and have fared poorly, Sweden is just 16%
    
    In NZ 71.3% of Pacific, 50.8% of Māori, 31.9% of European/Other and 18.5% of Asian adults are obese
    
    So why didn’t the govt spend any of the 100’s of millions of covid propaganda spend pushing the lose weight and get healthy (and take some supplements) message – which would actually improve outcomes massively.
    
    For contrast just 4% of Japanese and Indians are obese, and covid there has been lower impact.
    
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    January 11, 2022 6:00pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yep, dead right. I have my Vit.C & Vit.D, my zinc. and my Ivmctn arrived a coupe of weeks ago which I shared with a friend (not using it yet – only if get symptoms, then use it for 5 days only, as per the specialists) and my friend has ordered his, and the tracking has advised that its on its way.
    Woohoo – try and stop it now Jabinda, Bloomfield and you other criminals – you are beaten. 😆
    
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    January 11, 2022 6:07pm
    - Bea Rossini
      
      Good luck to you Don. I went to your mother’s funeral – will yours be in the same place?
      
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      January 11, 2022 9:34pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Now that’s nasty.
        
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        January 12, 2022 11:01am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It’s possibly even more concerning than we think. Hiding under the bed in terror waiting for a miracle vaccine that didn’t come, while doing nothing to improve the health system or general health of the population could be the biggest preventable disaster in this country for many years. Possibly ever.
    By hiding for 2 years, throwing away normal pandemic protocols and ignoring natural immunity, we’re primed for a shit storm. Congratulations Brenda, St Ash, Michael Baker. Great job. Special thanks to the mainstream media for enabling these people.
    
    https://dailysceptic.org/2022/01/10/if-omicron-is-so-mild-why-are-icu-admissions-skyrocketing-in-australia/
    
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    January 12, 2022 12:31am
- Ed Snack
  
  Sorry, but that will not happen. It is a mistake to think that science has any influence. A political solution has been chosen and considerable effort invested via psychological influencing and money to the media to push that (failed) policy to thee exclusion of any other options.
  
  They can only change course by backing down and revealing just how they have been subverting society. So they won’t.
  
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  January 11, 2022 4:42pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    And congrats Cindy .. you have won Bea over!!!
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:58pm
Benedict Yu

This guy wants the National MP who attended an anti vaccine mandate protest to resign from Parliament. Yes seriously.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/01/covid-19-m-ori-council-leader-matthew-tukaki-calls-on-national-mp-harete-hipango-to-resign-after-attending-anti-vaccine-mandate-and-lockdown-protest.html

I have not heard of the Maori Council. But anyway the MP is so awful she needs to resign from Parliament.

And his reasoning? Because the errant MP might lead to Maori parents not vaccinating their children..

“”The main aim in town must be to get the campaigns underway for childhood vaccinations,” he says.

“We have seen the impact of the virus on children in Europe and the USA, we are seeing the unfolding mess that is Australia so acting now will be imperative” ”

OK then. ??

BTW an update on my 2 year old granddaughter who has Omicron. 72 hours post diagnosis she is up running around. Literally.
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January 11, 2022 8:11am
- bronny1
  
  She is the only politician in NZ I momentarily had respect for – until she removed her post on the demand of Luzon [Luxon]. It’s an anti mandate/freedom protest not an anti vax one ffs, and she should be entitled to an opinion.
  Speaking of which, my opinion of Luzon [Luxon] is declining fast, he’s showing himself to be, as predicted by many here, as some and pathetic.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:16am
  - Paulus
    
    More Bollocks from Frazer House basement !
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:39pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  That’s good news about your granddaughter… Is your son ok, also?
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes – he told me last night that he has had (much) worse colds in the past.
    
    His partner is sicker but she has some auto immune disorder – I don’t know much detail.
    
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    January 11, 2022 8:26am
- fernglas
  
  As I said above, Benedict, a child in New Zealand is five times more likely to be killed or maimed by a parent than by Covid. Do we hear experts proclaiming about that? And if not, why not?
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:19am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    And if they land up in state care they will be damaged for life.
    
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    January 11, 2022 9:39am
- pdm
  
  BY there was a time that I recall when National MP’s (unlike Labour MP’s) were free to hold and express there own opinions on various matters.
  
  However, once they went to Caucus and/or Cabinet votes they then had to follow the party majority decision – win or lose.
  
  Seemed to work very well as I recall but now `woke’ prevails as we saw from Luxon’s action at the weekend.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The knives are out for Harete Hipango.
  
  She represents a group of successful Maori women that we are not meant to know about.
  
  She has conservative (Catholic) beliefs and that seems to get up the nose of many.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:23am
  - coge
    
    Got her own independent mind too. Can’t have that under Luxon’s National party!
    
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    January 11, 2022 8:43am
  - Ruahine
    
    Yes. Definitely a new class enemy for Labour and its Media elves. More to come.
    
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    January 11, 2022 8:47am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, I believe Luxon effed up here. He could have intimated National is a broad Political Party, and we always look at both sides of any argument.
    If the MSM is correct in their reporting of this debacle, it’s not a good look for National.
    
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    January 11, 2022 8:49am
    - Bob
      
      If the MSM is correct in their reporting….
      A very large “IF’ Nick. When was the last time that the MSM political reporting bore any resemblance to ‘correct’.
      I look forward to the MSM reputing of the events surrounding the Tony Stuart’s lead blog today re Marja Lubeck knowing that she will be in MIQ shortly when she returns home; she can’t be that lucky at gambling that she scores an immediate MIQ slot!
      
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      January 11, 2022 9:48am
      - Nickc2
        
        She will no doubt get the same room as Lorde//sarc
        Home detention with compliance but a myth.
        
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        January 11, 2022 10:52am
    - Paulus
      
      MSM correct ?
      When.
      
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      January 11, 2022 1:40pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Newshub is also being mischievious. They had a story yesterday headlined ‘Peddling misinformation and lies’: Māori leader calls on National MP to resign after attending anti-vaxx, lockdown protest
    
    The inference was clear; that National MP Harete Hipango was peddling misinformation and lies. You had to read deep into the story to find Tutaki alleging that it was actually Voices for Freedom who he alleged to be peddlers of misinformation.
    
    It might be a small distinction, but it makes a big difference to the story, and is an unfair reflection on Ms Hipango, however unwisely she may have acted.
    
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    January 11, 2022 9:03am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Well as Voices for Freedom aren’t peddlers of misinformation either there really is no distinction. It’s an unfair reflection on Voices for Freedom to suggest their is a difference in their position and that of Harete Hipango.
      VFF have worked tirelessly on behalf of all of us to get the truth out there. They have been unfairly subjected to repeated smear pieces by the shills in the NZ media.
      But agree, the headline is complete and utter bullshit. No surprises in NZ media.
      
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      January 11, 2022 9:51am
    - David Garrett
      
      Tony S: Only two “i’s” in MICHIEVOUS mate
      
      [And this amply demonstrates why you spelling Nazi axxholes should mind your business. Get over yourself. mod.]
      
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      January 11, 2022 11:25am
      - Sacha
        
        Sometimes, Mod, I have to re read a sentence to get its meaning because the writer has used a homophone – and sometimes spelled even that wrongly.
        So I’m with DG on that one.
        It’s just another example of the NZ education system’s slide below mediocrity.
        
        [LOL, yet you managed to understand DG’s MICHIEVOUS? mod.]
        
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        January 11, 2022 1:15pm
      - David Garrett
        
        You are getting above yourself sonny…Your job is to monitor the blog for abusive/defamatory/illegal comments. Nothing more, nothing less.
        
        And the irony of a mistake within my comment obviously sailed right over your head.
        
        [Um no, hence the “amply demonstrates”. I don’t take orders from you btw. mod.]
        
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        January 11, 2022 1:35pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Mod, you’re overmoderating. It’s DPF’s blog, not yours. You think he wants mods calling out human spellcheckers now? Weak look for you and him.
        
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        January 11, 2022 3:43pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hah! It was ‘irony’, apparently. Of course, every time I break Muphry’s Law it is done ironically too.
        
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        January 11, 2022 4:16pm
  - MCōs
    
    Gets up the nose of many Catholics.
    
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    January 11, 2022 9:24am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ranking Polynesian women’s groups have power.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:08am
- marcw
  
  Matthew Tukaki is also being very vocal about insisting that 5 – 11 year olds be vaccinated for Covid. As far as I know (and I’m happy to be corrected), this man has no children, and I fail to see why he is qualified to be telling parents how they should be dealing with their childrens’ health treatment. It is a matter between the parents and their GP.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:52am
  - Tricati
    
    Maybe Tukaki should spend his energy on advocating to stop children being killed by thugs that can’t control their temper.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:16am
  - KKKKatee
    
    He’s not. Nobody from the PM down is qualified to advise on jabbing your kids. If Ardern chooses to jab her kid at some stage then that’s her prerogative. The state & academics should back off with their scaremongering. It’s become tedious. I’d like to see the Covid brainwashing adverts on tv cease. It’s, in effect, subliminal messaging.
    
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    January 11, 2022 6:39pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Great news re your granddaughter.
  
  As for your link, that was an awful hit job on the National MP by one of the usual government bought and owned shills. The narrative control around this should terrify even the most ardernt (sic) jabbing zealot.
  
  The latest “expert” out of Otago, Dr Amanda Kvalsvig, stating that actions needing to be taken include:
  
  “……high vaccination coverage among all school-aged children, effective ventilation in schools, high-grade masks, access to rapid antigen testing (RAT) and support to stay at home.
  An important first step is to use carbon dioxide (CO2) monitors as a way of alerting teachers and students when the air has become stale from too much rebreathing.”
  
  This is nothing more than a controlled narrative piece to drive the jabbing of our youngest children. This is abhorrent. These children are at statistically zero risk from covid. We don’t ye know the full extent of the risk from the jab but it is real.
  These people are delusional and they are dangerous. Of course, the Otago University Infection Group being funded by the Gates Foundation and GAVI would have absolutely no bearing on this position. That’s a conspiracy theory obviously.
  
  https://www.otago.ac.nz/infection-group/funding/
  
  She is one of Baker’s people. These lunatics are still talking about virus “eradication” as recently as August 2021. Everyone else on the planet knows eradication is not going to happen with an aerosol based virus.
  
  https://gh.bmj.com/content/6/8/e006810
  
  The Pandemicists MUST be stopped.
  
  https://eugyppius.substack.com/p/the-pandemicists-must-be-stopped
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:09am
  - mawm
    
    “An important first step is to use carbon dioxide (CO2) monitors as a way of alerting teachers and students when the air has become stale from too much rebreathing.”
    She has no concept of the science – unless children are being schooled in overcrowded sealed containers now days.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:29am
  - KKKKatee
    
    Totally agree. These people are abhorrent. They want kids masked up breathing in their own C02. This is madness. Parents should make an appointment with the Headmaster & the BOT and serve notice in them that little Johnny will not, under any circumstances, wear a mask & restrict their breathing during school hours. If enough parents made a stand, this silly mask mandate would disappear.
    
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    January 11, 2022 6:45pm
    - Bea Rossini
      
      Masks don’t restrict your breathing. OMG KKKKKKatee – bit hysterical there.
      
      1 3
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      January 11, 2022 9:41pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Masks help increase your oxygen levels obviously. Everybody knows that. Duh.
        
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        January 11, 2022 10:18pm
      - Bea Rossini
        
        Actually CM – you know better that that.
        
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        January 11, 2022 10:41pm
- MCōs
  
  Both myself and my wife had booster shots on Friday.
  She was feeling a bit lethargic for a couple of days, but that may also have been as the result of of a flight up from Chch; she loathes flying.
  Now we are fine.
  All that talk of bad reactions to the vaccine is greatly exaggerated.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:33am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Glad you’re ok after your jab though your anecdotal evidence is totally meaningless in regard to whether the jabs are safe or not. It’s no different to my knowing a family of 4 in the UK who all had covid and all recovered without a problem. It doesn’t prove anything.
    Here’s the latest VAER data re reported myocarditis after the covid jab compared to after the old flu jab.
    
    https://openvaers.com/covid-data/myo-pericarditis
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:43am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    It may be but I have had rash on my left wrist just above where I have my watch. I was vaccinated on my left arm. The advice for the MoH is to go to my GP at my expense. Should the government not pay for people who get treatment for an adverse reaction to the vaccine?
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:48am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      The government and health people are actively discouraging people from reporting adverse events. They don’t want the numbers to get in the way of their fairy story.
      I know of at least 3 people locally who had adverse effects and had to do the reporting personally which isn’t a simple process. It is terrible that the local health people refused to do this for them. One of them is quite badly affected after the first jab. ACC have declined any assistance. It’s ongoing.
      
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      January 11, 2022 11:06am
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Or, more likely, they were talking to medically knowledgeable people who assessed the situation objectively and could see that the issues of concern were unrelated to the vaccine. Therefore would not put them through the reporting system.
        Regrettably the fact that anybody can report in these systems they are full of ghost data especially in the current environment of constant vaccine fear porn being propagated.
        
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        January 11, 2022 3:01pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I just contacted the Covid health line. A nurse is meant to call me back.
      
      I am querrying about any charge for medical advice or treatment.
      
      11 3
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      January 11, 2022 2:42pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        The nurse called back and got me to take a photo and upload it. She tried to convince me is was something else like my watch that cause my rash.
        
        If I want a personal assessment I have to pay. I should not have to pay and will not be getting my booster.
        
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        January 11, 2022 5:02pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Good luck, but counter to the random and nonsensical assertions of 4nz, these people had genuine health concerns after their jab and were ignored. It’s why the number of actual adverse effects is 10 times higher than those reported.
        
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        January 11, 2022 5:15pm
      - Bea Rossini
        
        Jesus Chuck – you’ve got a rash – there – a diagnosis.
        
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        January 11, 2022 6:55pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    “All that talk of bad reactions to the vaccine is greatly exaggerated”
    
    I made this point a few days ago: because of the rigid, absolutist position on every aspect of Covid, lockdowns, vaccines etc. taken by the authorities, positions from the “one source of truth” that cannot be scrutinised in polite society (for instance, heavily avoiding, downplaying and even categorically denying that negative vaccine reactions or complications occur at all), if counter-examples and contradictions arise, and whenever adverse events do occur, the government’s position is at once blown out of the water. Being less rigid, entertaining and addressing these ideas, accepting counter-views, publicly acknowledging issues, and generally acting in good faith, would all make their pronouncements have less of a clearly discernible air of authoritarianism and hidden agendas.
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:50am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      No one ever, anywhere said there are nil vaccine reactions. So nobody’s position is blown out of the water when the rare negative effect is confirmed.
      
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      January 11, 2022 3:03pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        These Covid vaccines have orders of magnitude higher adverse reactions, serious adverse reactions, than any earlier vaccines ever released.
        
        US VAERS records at least 22K deaths alone, and VAERS is well known to report perhaps 10% of actual cases as it is a purely voluntary system. Previous Flu vaccines have been withdrawn when they were implicated in a few tens of deaths.
        
        Without doubt, these vaccines are by far the most dangerous ever mass distributed.
        
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        January 11, 2022 5:17pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Was the implication between the deaths and the Flu vaccines orders of magnitude more concrete than those being reported as covid vaccine deaths?
        What percentage of doses administered resulted in deaths confirmed as vaccine caused?
        
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        January 11, 2022 5:56pm
      - mawm
        
        Flight – “What percentage of doses administered resulted in deaths confirmed as vaccine caused?”
        
        That is exactly the problem – we do not know.
        
        Anecdote is of large numbers. Vaers is known to under report substantially and CDC is doing nothing to correct this. Statisticians are comparing insurance companies numbers which are probably more accurate as they have to make payments and it seems as if it is somewhere between 10 to 42 times under reported in Vaers. Various countries, including NZ, are not doing postmortem examinations with adequate histology to determine the cause of suspected deaths but are rather just dismissing them. Once it seems as if there is inadequate monitoring of severe side effects and it is repeated from one authority after another then the suspicion is that something is being hidden. But in the end this undefined “rare” becomes nonsense and certainly to the people who die it is not rare.
        
        Just one question – what mortality would you accept as acceptable? 1 in a million, 1 in a thousand. I’m interested in what you find acceptable.
        
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        January 11, 2022 7:27pm
  - kowtow
    
    Rory Nairn.
    
    7 3
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    January 11, 2022 12:03pm
  - bronny1
    
    Are you a representative sample of every person? Wow you must be amazing? Are you a child, a young man, middle aged and elderly? Are you healthy AND have every possible comorbidity? Are you Maori, white and Indian all at once? Are you both obese and slim? You really are a mighty man.
    
    Lots of people have suffered vaccine harms, stop belittling them you nasty fellow.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:13pm
  - KKKKatee
    
    Thank your lucky stars then. Others not so. Have you read the story about Dan Carter’s sister, Sarah, who has been vaccine injured?
    
    [Mod note: https://uncensored.co.nz/2022/01/09/sarahs-jab-no-job-story/ ]
    
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    January 11, 2022 6:47pm
    - mawm
      
      Thank you mod. The problem is that she would have to prove treatment injury to get compensation …. and with this governments policies and total denial she will not get ACC.
      
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      January 11, 2022 7:35pm
      - NK
        
        I have a friend whose 24yr old son was Vax injured and now has long Covid and is on ACC.
        
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        January 11, 2022 8:24pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  “Because the errant MP might lead to Maori parents not vaccinating their children..”
  
  If the pro-choice dissenters have such a good argument (which we do), one that may sway people to decide to not vaccinate their kids (or themselves for that matter) then isn’t it incumbent on the anti-freedom vaccine advocates come up with a better one?
  
  This totalitarian thinking on Covid and vaccines is inherently Stalinistic. In the USSR, dissenters were placed in psyche wards because, obviously, the system was so self-evidently perfect and unimpeachable that, by definition, you were insane if you disagreed. Sound familiar? Who turned out to be right in the end?
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:41am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    There was a Dutch doctor who was assessed ad having mental issues, she was detained early in the covid circus for refusing to accept the government position. I will try and find out how that turned out.
    
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    January 11, 2022 5:18pm
- krazykiwi
  
  “We have seen the impact of the virus on children in Europe and the USA”
  
  This person is woefully uninformed and/or an idiot. I hope they read this: 99.9987% of Under-20s Survive Covid, Study Finds
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:54pm
- NK
  
  I think he should be applauding Hipango for discouraging Maori parents for not vaccinating their children. Vaccination will kill Maori children. Catching Covid won’t.
  
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  January 11, 2022 6:26pm
Benedict Yu

This is poor behaviour by Christchurch City Council.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127463307/council-sends-14000-traffic-management-bill-to-antigovernment-protesters

What if these protestors had been climate change activists? Would the Council have sent them a “traffic management” bill? Of course not. They would have helped organise the event.

The Council is not there to pick and choose who can gather and protest.
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January 11, 2022 8:11am
- artemisia
  
  An OIA request to the Christchurch City Council is required to provide a list of gatherings and ascertain whether traffic management costs were determined and billed after the event.
  
  A long list would be good.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:02am
  - bronny1
    
    Done.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:22pm
- Nickc2
  
  Labour Mayor, Labor-dominated Council, all directed from Fraser House IMO.
  Come on you Fraser House down-ticking employees, deny it.
  
  36 2
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  January 11, 2022 9:12am
  - cmm
    
    No, no, no. Dalziel is an INDEPENDENT like Goof. She has NOTHING to do with Labour.
    
    … or something like that!
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:22am
    - Nickc2
      
      Pigs arse she doesn’t. Labour put her there FFS. It was a Long Service Gift for services to Communism and Dictatorships World Wide.
      
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      January 11, 2022 10:56am
- Bob
  
  Come October Christchurch will have the opportunity to elect a competent council and Mayor.
  Won’t be holding my breath waiting for such an event though.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:56am
- curry4me
  
  Benedict Yu: I guess there are one or two who’d kick in some dosh to help pay it if neccessary.
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:23am
I remember when

Is the Djokovic affair more about showing who is boss than right and wrong according to the law.
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January 11, 2022 8:17am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  It certainly can’t be about health. With Omicron running rampant in Aus, even if Novak was infected, it wouldn’t amount to a pile of beans.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:06am
- Nickc2
  
  The Court Case was held in a Labor Governed State with a Pro-China Dictator masquerading as Premier and it’s an Election Year for the anti-Labor Commonwealth Govt. What other result could be expected, especially when the Aust Open Tennis comp is a great revenue earner and tourist attraction for the State of Victoria?
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:23am
  - kowtow
    
    There’s an awful lot of really dodgy shit goin’ on there and you won’t read about it in the MSM.
    
    https://quadrant.org.au/opinion/opinion-post/the-commissioner-and-the-choirboy/
    
    The Pell persecution.
    
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    January 11, 2022 12:08pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes, and the other lies and inuendos promulgated by their Aust Broadcasting Corp (ABC).
      
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      January 11, 2022 1:18pm
    - Bea Rossini
      
      Poor old Pell. And poor old Catholic Church – so maligned over the years. I blame the lefties.
      
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      January 11, 2022 9:50pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Disgusting political posturing in Oz. But good on their courts for upholding truth and decency in the face of it. Unfortunately most abused by these fascist political health regimes can’t afford justice. This is the real problem of our democracy.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:36am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Nothing about this is to do with health. Everything about this is to do with crushing dissent and shutting down opposing narratives. It’s beyond obvious now.
  Continued compliance will see this thing go on forever.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:04am
- Phronesis
  
  It’s really more appropriate to refer to it as the Novac affair surely?
  
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  January 11, 2022 12:48pm
Yvette

“cancel culture” – “a form of ideological colonisation”
… Last month, the Vatican’s number two, Secretary of State Cardinal Pietro Parolin, expressed concern over a draft EU communications manual that suggested not using the term Christmas.
The manual, which the Vatican saw as an attempt to cancel Europe’s Christian roots, was later withdrawn for revision.
In his remarks on Monday, Francis warned of “a form of ideological colonisation, one that leaves no room for freedom of expression and is now taking the form of the ‘cancel culture’ invading many circles and public institutions”.
He used the two words in English in the midst of a long speech in Italian. The “cancel culture” controversy is particularly sharp in English-speaking countries, such as the US and UK.
This risked cancelling identity “under the guise of defending diversity”, Pope Francis said, adding that a kind of “one-track thinking” is taking shape, one constrained to deny history or, worse yet, to rewrite it in terms of present-day categories.

… Besides the removal of statues, some have also demanded changing the names of institutions such as schools and hospitals named after the historical figures, saying they played a part in the destruction of native American cultures.
While the pope did not mention any specific cancel culture examples, he said any historical situation must be interpreted in the context of its times and not by today’s standards.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/01/pope-hits-out-at-ideological-colonisation-cancel-culture.html

While the pope did not mention any specific cancel culture examples – the use of lower case ‘p’ instead of capital ‘P’ope, is perhaps one example of them.
Cancel the pope as well …
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January 11, 2022 8:20am
Benedict Yu

This will have Scomo spitting 🙂

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/127470377/i-want-to-stay-novak-djokovic-heads-straight-to-australian-open-courts-after-huge-legal-victory

I am obviously not a lawyer, but the Australian Migration Act seems to provide the Minister with the power to cancel a visa without needing to give a reason. It actually says that “the principles of natural justice do not apply”:

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ma1958118/s133c.html#:~:text=(e)%20the%20Minister%20is%20satisfied,interest%20to%20cancel%20the%20visa.&text=(6)%20If%20a%20decision%20was,decision%20and%20cancel%20the%20visa.

So presumably his visa can be cancelled, he can be detained and deported.

That would be a really really big step.
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January 11, 2022 8:25am
- Julie
  
  He can but if he was going to do so i believe he would have done so immediately after the ruling. The Commonwealth solicitor discussed the possibility with the Judge.
  It can be appealed and i don’t think the government want the possibility of another defeat on there hands. Novak won on the unfair way he was treated at the border not whether he had a valid visa and nothing can change that!
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:45am
- Hollyfield
  
  I watched the court online yesterday afternoon. It was fascinating. They broke for lunch for an 1.25 hours, which turned into 1.75 hours, then came back for less than 2 minutes when the judge suddenly said to the Govt lawyer he would speak to him privately. They disappeared for about an hour, then when they returned the judge gave his ruling that Djokovic’s visa would not be cancelled (or would be reissued) and that Djokovic had to be released within 30 minutes. The Govt lawyer then said that he was instructed that despite the judge’s ruling the Minister could still choose to cancel the visa. The lawyer said a lot of respectful words to the judge, and said he didn’t want the judge to find out another way that the Minister was considering this. The judge thanked the lawyer for informing him, and then said if he had found out later that day or early in the morning that the Minister was considering cancelling the visa, the judge would have been “nearly incandescent” with anger. The judge also said something I didn’t quite follow – but I think it was about if the Minister does cancel the visa, Djokovic can appeal that decision, and the judge wants notice if he will be required for that appeal, mentioning that it would be hard for someone else to get up to speed with the issues in the timeframe. Judge was clearly not happy that the Minister may overrule his court decision.
  
  So it will be fascinating to see what the Minister decides to do.
  
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  January 11, 2022 8:47am
  - Paulus
    
    The Minister should prevaricate and delay any comment.
    Let the people of Australia have their say.
    And he may not get the response on court that he expects except from his family and countrymen – who are not at all in the popularity stakes in Australia.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:47pm
- Cinematic
  
  Yes it would be a big step because it locks Novak out of Oz for 3 years. For what exactly? The crime of not taking a sadly lacking vaccine that doesn’t prevent transmission? Nuts.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:05am
All_on_Red

The end of the Pandemic is near for the US. Will our Govt let Omicron loose so we will be free too?

“On Sunday, former FDA Commissioner and current Pfizer board member Dr. Scott Gottlieb appeared on CBS’ “Face The Nation” with host Margaret Brennan to discuss the latest developments pertaining to COVID-19.
During the segment, Brennan asked Gottlieb if he stands by his prediction that Omicron will begin to burn out in some major metropolitan areas by February.”
https://www.dailywire.com/news/gottlieb-on-omicron-epidemic-curves-to-begin-going-down-in-certain-east-coast-states
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January 11, 2022 8:25am
- MCōs
  
  “The end of the Pandemic is near for the US.”
  
  Yeah sure.
  The omicron variant maybe, but does catching that one give protection from other ones such as delta, which presumably is still around?
  I don’t know.
  
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  January 11, 2022 12:15pm
  - bronny1
    
    The data to date says yes. You wouldn’t need to pose the question if you used duckduckgo
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:27pm
  - cmm
    
    “but does catching that one give protection from other ones such as delta,”
    
    The overwhelming evidence is: yes.
    
    In all places where Omicron is well established, it has driven out/is driving out Delta.
    
    Delta does not give immunity to Omicron, but Omicron gives immunity to Delta.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:31pm
I remember when

Thomas Nash a member of the Geneva based International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons that won the Nobel Peace Prize in 2017.
Was a candidate for the Green Party in Palmerston North in the 2017 General Election.
Elected as a Green Party candidate for the Poneke/Wellington constituency of the Wellington Regional Council in 2019.
Always interesting how people that promote State control believe they should be at the forefront and be well paid.
Totally different to Private Enterprise where people only act in their own best interests.
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January 11, 2022 8:27am
- Cassandra
  
  That campaign to abolish nuclear weapons really worked, didn’t it? Nash claims to have won the Peace Prize – what a poseur. None of these people ever has a proper job – they always rely on OPM (you know, the easiest money to spend – ask Grant). They’d be a lot more credible if they actually made a contribution rather than always taking.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:41am
- Matt Long
  
  Totally, state control of the people only works for the people in control of the state. For them it works very well indeed.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:55am
I remember when

Two families of four in the UK, or rather London.
Three out of four in each family has had covid – four most recent are Omicron.
The youngest is one years old and largely asymptomatic.
After ten days they can leave their isolation or if they RAT test negative earlier.
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January 11, 2022 8:37am
Rusty

Has Novak Djokovic started a movement that could snowball all over the western world?

From a legal point of view Novak has done nothing wrong entering Australia with the appropriate paper work but it seems the Aussie PM has taken exception to that — which is unfortunate coming from him — but the courts see it differently.

One might say Novak is a high profile person with lots of money but what about the average person who has taken a anti-vax stance and their personal and legal rights to go about their everyday lives without govt bullying?
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January 11, 2022 8:43am
- Julie
  
  Novak won his case on his unfair treatment at the border, the courts did not even get as far as examining whether his covid status was valid as the government conceded before it reached that point.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:17am
- amospicton
  
  He always intended to game the system by having a conveniently mild case of covid – if he didn’t get the virus he wouldn’t be in Australia. So he thought he could get around the rules, mindless rules they may be, but he was cheating. The great irony is that Novak’s greatest wish is to be as revered as Federer and Nadal and this silly act of “don’t you know who I am?” has ensured that will never happen, irrespective of whether or not he plays in Australia and eventually breaks the record.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:56am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Exactly who is he cheating?
    
    20 3
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    January 11, 2022 10:29am
    - amospicton
      
      He’s cheating the rules to get into Australia – he needed to either be vaxed (he wasn’t) – or have had a serious case of covid – which he didn’t. He was seen out and about in Belgrade on the days immediately following his supposed positive test – unmasked and in the company of many people. I believe the plan was always to get a friendly doctor to give him a certificate. I don’t like the rules either but I can understand why Australians are unhappy.
      
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      January 11, 2022 11:01am
      - MCōs
        
        You’re not suggesting for a moment that the deeply religious Novak Djokovic, the greatest athlete since Lance Armstrong and hero of the great Serbian nation, the least corrupt country in Europe, could have stooped so low as to conjure up a false covid-19 test result just so he could get into Australia?
        
        Impossible.
        
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        January 11, 2022 12:43pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Whatever. The guys already had covid twice. This border nonsense is a sideshow. Once the covid scamdemic is over he will be celebrated.
    
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    January 11, 2022 11:11am
    - amospicton
      
      My point is simply that why should he be allowed special status just because he knows one end of a tennis racket from the other? Australian citizens have to abide by the rules. It’s very similar to the DJ in NZ where ‘special status’ was afforded to a foreign elite. It’s absolutely nothing to celebrate as far as I’m concerned.
      
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      January 11, 2022 12:06pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Special status? The Aus Open is one of the four Majors; Novak is IIRC a 10-time winner. He contributes to its laurels.
        
        If Aus doesn’t want him then perhaps World Tennis should reconsider their Majors.
        
        And – Novak vs the DJ – no contest.
        
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        January 11, 2022 2:00pm
KevO'Brien

Small Gift
I have made available two books I have published for free download. These are on obooko.com
Enjoy, they will remain permanently available and there is no signup or other nuisance.

My First 80 Years– Kev’s autobiograhy, where I take the perspective of a historian, social and technical. I created the Western Samoa National Provident Fund 50 years ago this August. Had my campaign caravan fire-bombed on election night, part of Zilab which built the first commercial microcomputer in NZ.
My artwork is included and the spooky bits of dealing with demonic entities as a Christian is all recorded. The book is not so much about me as my place in time.
https://www.obooko.com/free-memoir-biography-autobiography-books/my-first-80-years-kevin-obrien

The Stones of Home by Rowan Utting, my wife’s son. The blurb gives more detail. It is an amazing work by a 15 yr old with his own poetry, music, illustrations and a new language with lexicon. Where else can you get a song for the naming of a new-born dragon?
https://www.obooko.com/free-books-for-teens/the-stones-of-home-utting

After a century and a half of isolation, the surviving Mages of Haven reunite to combat a rising power. Their journey and their fight for freedom leads them through many skirmishes and adventures, to confront an old rivalry between their allies, whom they must unite to defeat their common enemy.The Stones of Home is a bardic tale of magic and dragons, of love and pain, of epic battles and loss, and touches the very heart of what it is to be human. Bardic, Rowan Utting’s work is poetic, narrative, mythic, reflective and musical. Along with the language, ‘Alamard’ , The Stones of Home’s the author’s graphic working notes, embedded original songs, music, lexicon and grammar. Suitability: 12 (contains violence) Young adult Not a novel about youth: it explores the lives and emotions of people with magical powers, their place in different societies and the constant war waged by other creatures. The Stones of Home is epic in scope and set in contemporary Scotland and Ireland. It is literary, humorous, poignant, violent, philosophical and memorable.
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January 11, 2022 8:57am
surfing

Creating a problem where there is none…
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/location-and-gps-equipment-determining-whether-offenders-go-to-prison/ar-AASDw8M?li=BBqdg4K

Spending an extra 180 million dollar on crims so they can do home detention? Can’t agree. Don’t do the crime if you want to be at home.

“Dr Marietta Martinovic has studied electronic monitoring and said New Zealand’s use of it is the highest in the Western world”

So, NZ is an outlier, we should reduce our use of electronic monitoring, not increase it.
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January 11, 2022 9:07am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I don’t have a problem if it is targeted properly since it saves the taxpayer a lot of money as well as not sending the perpetrator to crime school. But it needs to be coupled with other actions in areas such as mental health and education to prevent reoffending. Also bailed accused can spend a long time waiting for trial on home detention and this is just wasted lifetime if nothing is done to address those issues.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:49am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    If the offenders’ homes are too remote for effective electronic monitoring then it’s odds-on that they nowhere near mental health or education services providers.
    
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    January 11, 2022 2:02pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Coming to an unjabbed person near you soon. Don’t give Brenda and St Ashley ideas!
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:14am
Yvette

Now the chair of the National Māori Authority, Matthew Tukaki, is slamming Hipango and calling on Luxon to sort the MP out.
“Let’s face it the errant National MP has had multiple opportunities yet she sneaks away to this protest and that knowing full well her presence gives license to those behind them – often peddling misinformation and lies,” Tukaki says in a statement.

To my knowledge, National Māori Authority, Matthew Tukaki has not yet commented likewise on Brian Tamaki and his “family funday picnics”.
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January 11, 2022 9:08am
- The Housekeeper
  
  Tukaki is desperate to stay relevant. It would seem he is no longer flavour of the month with his overlords.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:16am
Mrs_Right

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-ripped-through-him-nsw-mums-heartbreak-as-child-dies-with-covid/XHWFDXTBNRFDXZUD2G5MT6IJHM/

This sort of ‘reporting’ makes me feel sick. Third and fourth paragraph before the actual cause is shown.

Fear mongering, misleading clickbai.

It’s all timed to create fear as the child doses arrive.
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January 11, 2022 9:12am
- surfing
  
  I’d agree. It is symptomatic of media selling their principles because social media is kicking their revenue into touch.
  
  The herald recently phoned and offered me a free 4 week paper delivery… thought about it, papers being shoved into my letterbox that I need to trash after reading…filled with more ads than content, and the content is mediocre, and having to remember to cancel in 4 weeks time.
  
  I declined and asked why anyone would want a delivery when it is all online. CSR agreed it was a tough sell.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:46am
- Fletch
  
  A lot of scaremongering going on. As Dr Malone said in that video yesterday, there’s a video of Scott Gottleib, former FDA director who now is a member of the Pfizer Board of Directors, speaking to the press saying that there have been 600 deaths of children in the U.S due to the virus since the beginning of the outbreak. What he doesn’t say is that a major study showed that every one of those children had major preexisting comorbidities. They didn’t die of Covid, they died with Covid.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:01am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    “died with covid” is no different to saying “died with teeth”. It’s meaningless fear mongering.
    Also the older you are the more chance of it having some relevance.
    
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    January 11, 2022 10:45am
    - lifesgood
      
      As soon as I saw the photo of that poor wee kid I knew he didn’t die of covid. He was only ever expected to live a few years. What disgraceful scare mongering.
      
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      January 11, 2022 11:57am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Exactly, it’s the same with the Whoreald piece from another Otago “expert”, Amanda Kvalsvig. It’s pure, controlled propaganda.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-epidemiologist-warns-government-to-delay-school-return/PJTNJDQYOSMBPBSVZMVHM6TXZQ/
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:21am
- Fight4NZ
  
  It is a low grade piece. Fodder for the antivaxxers unfortunately.
  Only point of value:
  He urged people to continue to come forward for vaccination, saying half of the 159 patients in ICU were unvaccinated.
  “The numbers don’t lie. The best way of staying safe, keeping safe, is getting boosted,” he told reporters. I wonder if bronny can understand that statistic>
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:34am
  - bronny1
    
    Yes I can thanks. Having spent years as an analyst I’m pretty good with numbers. Remember that you had trouble with Simple percentages just yesterday honey.
    We have delta here. The UK data I shared was with a month of omicron and had just on parity between percent died of it and percent vaxxed against it. I suspect we will see the same here once omicron gets in.
    
    But please keep having your boosters.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:34pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Since you insist, I went and found the explanation for you to try again:
      “I am anything but a ‘branch Covidian’. I think the vaccine has been oversold, that certain side effects have been covered up and that the vaccine mandates are an utter travesty. However, an error of statistical reasoning is being committed here. It’s not actually a case of mistaking correlation for causation. Rather, it’s something called the ‘baseline fallacy’. Assume for a moment that 80% of adults are vaccinated, that the base rate of hospitalisation is 10%, and that being vaccinated reduces that to 5%. That means that 100 in every thousand unvaccinated cases will end up in hospital compared with one in every 50 vaccinated cases. But out of 1,000 people, 800 are vaccinated, 40 of whom (5%) will, on average, be hospitalised. Of the other 200 unvaccinated cases, 20 (10%) will be hospitalised. So in this scenario, twice as many vaccinated as unvaccinated cases get hospitalised, even though the vaccine halves the risk of hospitalisation.”
      
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      January 11, 2022 4:31pm
- Matt Long
  
  Two interesting points from this story, the family had to separate over Christmas because of COVID rules,
  “The family had to be separated over Christmas and on Sebastian’s third birthday while Moroney’s wife Erin and their son isolated in hospital with Covid”.
  And NSW hospitals are under pressure because of staff isolation requirements.
  “NSW hospitals remain under significant pressure with high numbers of hospitalisations and the loss of many medical staff to Covid-19 isolation requirements.”
  I also note the poor little guy died peacefully in his sleep rather than a more difficult death the mother had feared before he became infected with COVID.
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:09am
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-christchurch-council-sends-protesters-14000-traffic-management-bill/RQ22AEMHP5JVILWAEGHCQ4R7N4/

Can the council legally enforce this? Sending a 14k bill for traffic management to the ‘organisers’ of the protest.
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January 11, 2022 9:38am
- curry4me
  
  surfing: Yes, it’d set a precedent. I think a good lawyer can kick it to touch. However, if it sticks, I’d kick in some dosh to help. Would it help if they had a few BLM/ANTIFA/Etinction Rebellion signs at the next one?
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:33am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    Wouldn’t be the first time that fringe cult radicals tried misdirection.
    
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    January 11, 2022 4:34pm
Fletch

WOW, just wow. A new study of 145 countries shows that yes, the vaccines have made everything worse.

Results indicate that the treatment (vaccine administration) has a strong and statistically significant propensity to causally increase the values in either y1 [variable chosen for deaths per million] or y2 [variable chosen for cases per million] over and above what would have been expected with no treatment.

y1 showed an increase/decrease ratio of (+115/-13), which means 89.84% of statistically significant countries showed an increase in total deaths per million associated with COVID-19 due directly to the causal impact of treatment initiation [vaccines]. y2 showed an increase/decrease ratio of (+105/-16) which means 86.78% of statistically significant countries showed an increase in total cases per million of COVID-19 due directly to the causal impact of treatment initiation.”

“Countries with few COVID-19 deaths in the year 2020 appear to have fared the worst of all countries after vaccine administration (e.g Thailand, Vietnam, Mongolia, Taiwan, Seychelles, Cambodia, etc.). The causal impact results from vaccine administration seen in these countries [is] hundreds or thousands of percentage increases in total deaths and cases per million.

“The statistically significant and overwhelmingly positive causal impact after vaccine deployment on the dependent variables total deaths and total cases per million should be highly worrisome for policy makers. They indicate a marked increase in both COVID-19 related cases and death due directly to a vaccine deployment that was originally sold to the public as the ‘key to gain back our freedoms.’The effect of vaccines on total cases per million and its low positive association with total vaccinations per hundred signifies a limited impact of vaccines on lowering COVID-19 associated cases.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/356248984_Worldwide_Bayesian_Causal_Impact_Analysis_of_Vaccine_Administration_on_Deaths_and_Cases_Associated_with_COVID-19_A_BigData_Analysis_of_145_Countries
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January 11, 2022 9:42am
- Fletch
  
  Or should I say that looking casually, statistics show that the vaccines have not made a positive difference as far as cases and deaths go. It looks like they have made them worse.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:18am
- kevn
  
  @Fletch… Righteeo. Lets push the Pfizer onto children. Now. Before the studies go ‘viral’.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s interesting too that the lead actors in hunting down the troublemakers are out of Germany and Europe. The understand the meaning of Nuremberg.
  
  There are even more significant revelations being checked out.
  
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  January 11, 2022 1:21pm
CAKE FACE1

I watched a documentary about Oskar Schindler last night.

This got me thinking about the Nazi fanatics, such as the mass murderer Herr Eichmann. Of course, the Nazis were eventually held to account, in the Nuremburg Trials. Herr Eichmann was later executed in 1962. Hannah Arendt wrote a controversial book about him, called “A Report on the Banality of Evil”, discussed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#Theme

“Her thesis is that Eichmann was actually not a fanatic or a sociopath, but instead an extremely average and mundane person who relied on clichéd defenses rather than thinking for himself, and was motivated by professional promotion rather than ideology…”

Ms Arendt did conclude, however, that Herr Eichmann should still hang.

It is interesting to compare our Zero Covid nutjobs, with their “final solution of elimination”, to Mr Eichmann.

Of course, chief proponent of the “final solution of elimination” strategy here has been Professor Baker.

It is possible that Professor Baker is actually not a fanatic or a sociopath, but instead an extremely average and mundane person who is simply motivated by professional promotion.

There is no question that the costs of his insane advice are incalculable, and will be paid for by generations of “Aotearoans”.

The question for me is – should Professor Baker be held to account for the damage that he has caused to “Aotearoa”?

In my opinion, after the next election, there should be trials for the “experts” who failed in their duty of care, and offered negligent advice.

Prison sentences for guilty parties seems to me to be appropriate, given the damage they have caused to our society.
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January 11, 2022 9:44am
- ClanMcleod
  
  If as it appears, it is malfeasance then charges should be laid and appropriate sentences handed down. There will be a number of defendants. The media shouldn’t escape justice either. Though their natural demise into obscurity and destruction of reputations once the funding runs out may be enough punishment.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:24am
- Fletch
  
  Right. And it would be bad enough if it was just the destructive lockdowns but it’s the mandates and the pressure to get vaxxed that has destroyed many peoples lives and careers. Add to that, they would have a point if the vaccine actually worked. If it actually protected people and stopped them getting Covid. But it doesn’t. You can still become infected and pass it on. And whatever gains you receive by being vaccinated only last 3 or 4 months, then you need another, and another…
  
  The whole thing has become one massive botch-up.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:25am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    How do you know that you will need another and another?
    
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    January 11, 2022 5:03pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  No, the “experts” are actors employed by the politicians who are entirely responsible for the choices they made. The media should be in the dock with them. Those are the people who chose the messages to be promoted and those to be dismissed.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    “Following orders” is not a sufficient defence to ignoring a basic duty of care which interferes with others’ freedom. That is an inalienable right without which we are slaves.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:24pm
Nickc2

Novak Djokovic
The only top sportsman kicked out of a tournament for not taking drugs.
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January 11, 2022 9:46am
- Bobba Fret
  
  The first tennis player to be eliminated (nearly) for only missing two shots.
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:36am
Diogenes

I was out doing my usual early morning watering when the thought came to me: “I tend my garden, and my garden tends to me.”
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January 11, 2022 10:18am
CAKE FACE1

Compare the Courts in Australia to the Courts in “Aotearoa”.

In Australia, the government wanted Novak deported, but the Courts told the government in no uncertain terms to get stuffed. Their system works.

In New Zealand, we had an illegal lockdown.

The Courts ruled that it was illegal, but basically said the whole thing was a huge laugh, and actually congratulated the government for doing it. Our system is a big, fat failure.

It is a tragedy. Since this point, I have lost all faith in the independence of our Courts.

Our institutions have been stress tested by this nasty flu (the media, the Courts, the police) and all have been found wanting.

Woe is me…
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January 11, 2022 10:20am
Fight4NZ

What happens when everyone has had omicron and they have the “natural immunity” panacea that is chanted about so regularly, but then that diminishes and then another variant comes along that avoids what is left of that immunity and happens to be fairly lethal by chance.
Will it then be concluded that natural immunity is an OAS and totally ineffectual, even encourages infection because nearly everyone catching the new variant had omicron? And no one has studied the long term effects of omicron and they are terrible and I know a person who suffered. And the government and Bill Gates and elites knew this would happen, it’s part of their plan to take over. How could they let omicron loose on us when they knew this would happen? And then multiple people repeat those claims every day multiple times and start to call them facts. We KNOW this is true and we said so 3 years ago despite the impossibility of that statement in itself being true.
This could happen next?
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January 11, 2022 10:27am
- alloytoo
  
  Omicron has only been around for about 7 weeks globally how can you know someone suffering the “Long-term” effects?
  
  Omicron infection offers considerably better natural immunity than the vaccines against prior variants. As a result it’s displaced Delta in South Africa, the UK and parts of Europe and now the US. Hell, Omicron is displacing the flu in the UK.
  
  Covid appears to be following the path of other pandemics by burning itself out after about two years. Covid will them become endemic in the human population.
  
  We can then get on with our lives.
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:42am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    I agree, that is the most likely scenario. But not the only one.
    What I posed is hypothetical with the current logic being applied to vaccine induced immunity applied to omicron immunity.
    And exactly as you say the key point is omicron effects over the long term are impossible to know. Looking positive at this point. But as a viable organism in the body no one knows what its behaviour will be. Probably the immune system will deal with it as it does with the flu, but it could go into a latent phase like chicken pox/shingles or cold sores.
    At least with the vaccine it is a simple fact that it is processed through your system and completely gone within 1 – 2 weeks.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:11pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think you are wasting your time posing reasonable scenarios to unreasonable people.
      
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      January 11, 2022 3:43pm
      - Fight4NZ
        
        Depressingly true. But alloytoo has shown some propensity to openmindedness so why not.
        And there is always the amusement to be had with the ones who just lose the plot and get abusive to the sound of their graunching brain cogs.
        
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        January 11, 2022 4:57pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  F2NZ…. sigh.
  
  “but then that diminishes and then another variant comes along that avoids what is left of that immunity and happens to be fairly lethal by chance.”
  
  Humans live in a veritable soup of viruses, bacterium, fungal spores, parasites etc etc
  
  And they are constantly moving and shifting their form to avoid Human immunity defenses.
  
  Been going on for all human history (though a good cases is made in Guns, Germs and Steel that zoonotic transmission has increased significantly since we became sedentary farmers and spend much more time in close contact with animals like pigs, cattle etc etc). And guess what as a species: We. Are. Still. Here!
  
  Your scenario is basically stating what happens currently with influenza… its strains wax and wane in lethality as time passes. And guess what we as a species rely on our immune systems which improvise, adapt and overcome given time as exposure to new strains occur.
  
  We have a ‘vaccine’ for influenza – and just like the current covid19 vaccine its far from perfect and is really best used by those most vulnerable with the rest of us allowing our immune systems to improvise, adapt and overcome the last strains of influzena.
  
  it is past time to live life and stop worrying about every statistically minor risk we are exposed to.
  
  Sadly the NZ population has been overwhelmed by doom speakers spreading generalised apocalyptic scenarios about Covid19….
  
  Move on – its done – if a few thousand of us Kiwis die from Omicron – so what! For the families involved its tragic but as a statistical event to frighten the remaining 5 million odd Kiwis it is very much a non-event… (Harsh I know – but living paralysed by fear constantly is no way to spend your limited lifespan – get out and have fun)
  
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  January 11, 2022 7:36pm
  - Fight4NZ
    
    So you missed the obvious point?
    First line is “I agree”, pretty much same as your conclusion.
    The vaccine has killed 1 person in NZ and yet relentlessly every day vaccine doomsday fantasy scenarios are posted here. I assume you agree since the loss of a few thousand to the virus is a non-event. Sadly the NZ antivaxxer cult has been overwhelmed by doom speakers spreading generalised apocalyptic scenarios about Covid19 vaccines….
    To spell it out, my scenario just mimics antivaxxer folly.
    
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    January 12, 2022 8:03am
artemisia

Fox News reporting that

California went from mandating vaccines to forcing COVID-positive health care employees to work

Rhode Island similar.

Scripps Health in San Diego has 6 to 8 staff calling every hour to report covid. Probably huge staff, but still.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-health-department-covid-positive-health-workers-continue-working
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January 11, 2022 10:28am
CAKE FACE1

While I’m at it, here’s a famous quote:

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” [Misattributed to Voltaire?]

I’m certainly no fan of the Apostle Brian Tamaki.

However, I’m sick to death of the police bullying this man, for protesting against the Covid tyranny. He has a right to protest, like everyone else.

What’s even worse is the knowledge that this police bullying is under instruction from the government.

The police know that the guy is doing nothing illegal (he might be breaking some of the bogus laws which contravene the Bill of Rights, but good on him for doing so).

Mr Coster should do his job. Our criminal gangs are out of control. Instead of wasting police time bullying Mr Tamaki, he should do something about the meth scourge sweeping “Aotearoa”.

“Aotearoa’s” institutions are in crisis.
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January 11, 2022 10:31am
ClanMcleod

The only statistics that can be trusted in the covid narrative are the numbers for all cause mortality. These are much more difficult to fudge and manipulate.
There is now clear evidence of continuous increase in all cause mortality evident in the UK. Yes, there is a small increase in the numbers “associated” with covid. No guarantee they actually are “because of covid” as we know from previous statistical bullshittery even here in NZ. Gunshots cause covid etc.
From the UK Office of National Statistics. There has been a consistent rise in deaths over the previous average for the last 5 years, month on month since about the middle of 2021. These are not insignificant numbers. These can only be due to the negative impacts of government policy which saw a huge downturn in mental and physcial health as well as reduced ability to access medical services. All of this was predicted. All of this was ignored. This is undoubtedly malfeasance.
The worldwide response to covid has been horrendously wrong and needs walked back as soon as possible.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending24december2021

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/deathregistrationsandoccurrencesbylocalauthorityandhealthboard

UK Column as usual do an outstanding job of interpreting and presenting this data in an easier to understand format. Highly recommended viewing 3 times a week.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-10th-january-2022

Their coverage of the latest VAER data in this episode is also very alarming re the impact of the jab. They do the comparison with “normal” flu jabs.

https://openvaers.com/covid-data/myo-pericarditis
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January 11, 2022 10:37am
curry4me

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/01/10/djokovic-has-exposed-australia-as-worlds-biggest-joke/

Delingpole: Djokovic has Exposed Australia as World’s Biggest Joke.

Traditionally Australians hate being confused with New Zealanders and vice versa. The Antipodean rivalry runs deep. But any minute now I expect a rush of Australians trying to disguise their accents, pronouncing ‘Yes’ to rhyme with ‘Piss’ and calling ‘fish and chips’ ‘fush and chups’, boasting about their Lord of the Rings scenery, and praising their [deleted], pipe-smoking, Beijing-controlled Prime Minister – all in a desperate attempt to pretend they are Kiwis.
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January 11, 2022 11:04am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNn-0NUxK2s

New Study Proves Omicron is 100 Times Less Deadly Than Delta, Conservatives Were Right.

New research by scientists at the University of Washington shows that the Omicron Variant may be 100 times less deadly than Delta. However experts warn that proportionally more people may get infected. Why the CDC says Omicron could burn itself out. The good and the bad.

[9:54]
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January 11, 2022 11:05am
- Julie
  
  My daughter and son in law in Melbourne said- I’ve had worse colds than this!
  2 days later completely recovered. Yet we being told our school children should all stay away from school next year for an undetermined time!
  The only children that need to do that are immune compromised ones. But then any virus is a risk to them.
  
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  January 11, 2022 12:44pm
cmm

Ooh, lookie, lookie… Our blave leaders are on the ball.

We’re assured that there are 20 million on order and will arrive IN SIX MONTHS! Have they also ordered a few containers of 2021 diaries?

Six Months is way too late. By then the pandemic is most likely going to be over.

Are these going to be Spain’s left overs again?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127463009/covid19-ministry-of-health-tightlipped-on-rapid-antigen-test-strategy
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January 11, 2022 11:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  I’m not concerned. High availability of RAT testing for a pathologically terrorized, bunker mentality population is a recipe for perpetuating the Ardern government’s panic porn. We’re better without them.
  
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  January 11, 2022 3:12pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  And according to the hospital I went to and was offered one, about 49% accurate. Comforting.
  
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  January 11, 2022 3:41pm
ClanMcleod

Regarding the rise of the bureaucrat during covid. Very entertaining angle on the covid circus and very much worth reading.

“If there was one thing that this damn pandemic sure increased was bureaucracy. To travel, to meet people, or even to have a cup of coffee somewhere, anywhere, now you need to show your “papers” — or, at any rate, a QR-code in your smartphone……….

Since none of that works, one would think that with such abysmal failure the pandemic bureaucrats would give up, but that is misunderstanding the issue. As a wise man observed long ago, a bureaucracy, like a virus, exists only to perpetuate itself.”

So true. Now about the pandemicists……
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January 11, 2022 11:17am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/127472175/carly-flynn-nickson-clarke-and-dave-letele-joining-tova-obrien-on-magic-talk-replacement-today-fm
Good grief.
Well that marks the end of my listening to MagicTalk.
It’s Mike and Heather and that will be all.
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January 11, 2022 11:24am
- alloytoo
  
  Woke is usually followed by broke, but not before we are accused of being racist sexist phobic etc. for ignoring them.
  
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  January 11, 2022 11:46am
- lifesgood
  
  I wish ZB would get rid of Miles Davis, Marcus Lush and some other clown called Tim something. All raving lefties polluting the station. I made the mistake of listening to half an hour of Davis last night. Talk about a pile on against Djokovic! Anyone would think Davis was a paragon of virtue. Happily turned to Concert for some calming relief.
  
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  January 11, 2022 12:03pm
  - Sacha
    
    I like old Miles – he’s a hundred times better company than the usual evening ‘host’. He is goodnatured, & doesn’t lecture people about being ‘selfish’ before hanging up on them. I wouldn’t mind if he was a permanent fixture, but I think he’d get bored . . . . . as would I if I listened every evening.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:58pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2qmB-9UtWk

Delusional Corbyn is Launching New Left Wing Political Party.

Wow a ‘new’ left wing party. Will any existing MPs join? [4:41]
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January 11, 2022 11:38am
Clownworld

[Please repost CW – obviously in the wrong place here. mod.]
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January 11, 2022 11:42am
oldfella

Stuffed runs a story about 2021 being the hottest since records began in 1908. Then at the bottom get all hysterical with a pitch for money.
===
Earth is basically on fire…
…and we’re not going to sit back and watch it burn.
Climate change articles like this one are a critical part of how we collectively respond to the crisis of this generation, and the generations to come.
Guarding against contributing to climate change is enshrined in Stuff’s company kaupapa. It’s our mission to make Aotearoa a better place.
If those values resonate with you, please make a contribution today.
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January 11, 2022 11:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There hasn’t been any global warming in the past 9 years.
  Stuff must get stuff from NIWA who have been feeding the sheep since before the HADCRUT email leaks showed the change the records fraud.
  
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  January 11, 2022 1:29pm
- curry4me
  
  oldfella: If Stuffed ‘were basically on fire’, I wouldn’t pee on them to put it out.
  
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  January 11, 2022 7:04pm
ClanMcleod

Anyone else noticing a subtle but definite shift in the narrative around the world in the last few weeks?
Not NZ, Ardern operates on a different timescale, her and Baker still think they can eradicate covid.

Check these links out. They would have been struck off as “fake news” or “fact checked” into oblivion a few weeks ago.

“The science isn’t strong enough”.

Watch the moment an unvaccinated hospital consultant challenges Health Secretary Sajid Javid over the government’s policy of compulsory COVID jabs for NHS staff.

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1479532922952732672?

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky went live on Good Morning America a few days ago pointing out that over 75% of omicron deaths had at least 4 serious comorbidities. Of course she got hammered on social media for daring speak the truth.

https://www.newsweek.com/cdc-rochelle-walensky-tweets-backlash-comments-omicron-death-comorbidities-1667329

In another interview she is asked how many of the 800,000 “covid” deaths in the US were “with” and “from”. She freely admits they are differentiating now. Something never acknowledged previously.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1480207649807507458?s=20

The pro establishment narrative machine, The Graun, reporting from the former head of the UK vaccine taskforce.

“End mass jabs and live with Covid, says ex-head of vaccine taskforce”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/08/end-mass-jabs-and-live-with-covid-says-ex-head-of-vaccine-taskforce

Reports in the mainstream media that T Cells from common colds can protect against coronavirus.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-t-cells-from-common-colds-can-protect-against-coronavirus-infection-study-finds-12512900

This article in Off Guardian covers the above in detail.

“We already mentioned the Guardian article from January 8th, there’s also an earlier one from Dec 5th titled “From pandemic to endemic: this is how we might get back to normal”.

CNBC ran three almost identical stories on this topic in the space of two weeks:

“The Covid pandemic could end next year, experts say — here’s what that looks like, and how the U.S. could get there” – December 9th
“The pandemic could end in 2022 — here’s what ‘normal’ life might look like soon, according to medical experts“ – December 15th
“Omicron could burn through the U.S. — and potentially hasten the Covid pandemic’s end, says expert” – December 22nd”

Their analysis of what is going on is interesting reading as is the conclusion.

https://off-guardian.org/2022/01/10/what-they-really-mean-by-living-with-covid/
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January 11, 2022 11:48am
- Reid
  
  They’re not going to stop, as you know. This is much bigger than just a virus. The new Ebola-like one currently in China that appeared last week is the next one. Warroom’s done a coupla segments on it if you haven’t heard about it.
  
  Airborne Ebola.
  
  Imagine that.
  
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  January 11, 2022 12:54pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Don’t.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:30pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    No, as per the analysis in the Off Guardian article. Kit Knightly concludes it’s no different to an advancing army, taking town after town. At some point they either take an unexpected hit and have to regroup, or their supply chains start getting stretched and they need to stop and take stock.
    That’s where we are right now.
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:32pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    If it’s real expect China to spread it to the world ASAP as they did for Covid.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:51pm
    - mawm
      
      It’s all rumour at the present. As Malone says we do not know what is happening in China. If it is a hemorrhagic fever and they don’t contain it, then we are in sh!t. Forget mortalities of 0.5%, this is more like 50%.
      
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      January 11, 2022 8:36pm
- I remember when
  
  We should “learn to live with covid” and eliminate (from the media) Baker, Wiles, Hendry, Jackson, etc.
  
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  January 11, 2022 1:52pm
Jack5

Christchurch to tax protests?

The Christchurch City Council is to bill anti-lockdown protesters in Christchurch $14,117 for trafic management.

If protests are to be billed for costs to local bodies, this will have to apply to Leftists, Greenies and other Woke, too.

How much would the anti-tour protesters have been billed?

I’m pro-vaccination, but we are a democracy and protests that don’t cause damage to property and don’t injure people are part of democracy.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-christchurch-council-sends-protesters-14000-traffic-management-bill/RQ22AEMHP5JVILWAEGHCQ4R7N4/
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January 11, 2022 11:59am
- Fletch
  
  Um, that’s not how protests work.. LOL
  
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  January 11, 2022 1:04pm
- Jack5
  
  Whoops!
  Didn’t notice this was raised in posts earlier. I’d lapsed into an old habit of reading threads from bottom up. Sorry!
  
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  January 11, 2022 1:06pm
  - Fletch
    
    I do that, too. Otherwise it seems to take longer scrolling down and you see how far there is to go. It’s all in the head…
    
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    January 11, 2022 1:57pm
- Bea Rossini
  
  According to Tamaki it was a “family event”. Of course they should be billed.
  
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  January 11, 2022 10:04pm
kevn

@Clan… She is way off the pace along with her cohorts. Silence, so possibly knows it, but they have painted themselves into the covid corner.
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January 11, 2022 12:31pm
ClanMcleod

And from the UK Spectator re vaccine passports.

“Rip it up: the vaccine passport experiment needs to end”

“It’s edging towards dystopian — a glimpse into what our future could be — if we continue this experiment with vaccine passports, with virtually no discussion of what’s going wrong. The idea that anyone should be free to move within a country, and free to leave it, is hardly extreme. It’s something protected in Article 13 of the UN Declaration of Human Rights. But liberty, once ceded only in an emergency, is hard to win back.”

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/rip-it-up-the-vaccine-passport-experiment-needs-to-end
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January 11, 2022 12:33pm
- kowtow
  
  We ‘re not edging towards , we’re there already .
  
  Remember all the bull about the vax initially .
  
  One keeps u out of icu , 2 keeps u out of hosp. ( most people don’t need a jab to keep em well anyway )
  
  Fully vaxxed was 2 shots ; now it’s 3 . In some countries more.
  
  90 % and we’re free . Well here we are , and we aren’t.
  
  No vax p/ports cos I luv freedom , she said , and here we are with ’em , already expiring instead of 6 months , down to 4.
  
  U couldn’t make this up and yet the Media Pardy and her legions are still worshipping at her altar of lies.
  
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  January 11, 2022 1:04pm
- Faroffsound
  
  More scary stuff from the Spectator: https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/welcome-to-the-end-of-democracy
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:52pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    An excellent exposition of where we have now arrived at.
    
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    January 11, 2022 5:24pm
I remember when

New England Journal of Medicine: 5/1/22:
Although vaccination still lowers the risk of infection, similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated persons who are infected with the delta variant call into question the degree to which vaccination prevents transmission.

I wonder if there is any effect in you lower the dose quantity for younger age groups.
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January 11, 2022 1:06pm
Fletch

Did Bob Saget die from a vaccine jab? It’s looking possible. On first reading the account yesterday with talk of “no suspicious circumstances” etc, it sounded like it may have been suicide. But we now know that he was found just lying normally on his bed…

There were no signs of foul play, and the room itself was in order, “with items owned by Mr. Saget on the nightstand, television stand, closet and bathroom”, according to the report from the Orange County Sheriff’s Office.

Saget’s left arm was across his chest and his right arm was resting on his bed when deputies and paramedics arrived Sunday at his room at the Ritz Carlton in Orlando and pronounced him dead, the report said.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/bob-saget-death-full-house-star-found-dead-lying-in-hotel-bed-no-trauma/7EZSZVAL4VK3CXVRNCMTLAXGVY/

And we know from a youtube video he made that he got his booster shot on December the 11th…

“Yeah, well, be careful out there and do whatever you got to do to be safe. And I’m not even going to preach. I try not to preach.

I got my booster shot. I’m 65. So I got it yesterday…uh…the day before, and I was hurting.”

Speculation? But it is possible.
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January 11, 2022 1:12pm
- Colville
  
  Cocaine and hookers or just a boring heart attack is far more likely.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:32pm
I remember when

Fox News: Chris Christie during interview:
Fetanyl is the top cause of deaths for Americans in the 18-45 age group.
Over the period April 2020 to April 2021, in excess of 100,000 deaths.
Fetynal and opiod deaths with China being the main source of supply much of it through the Southern border.
Incidentally, total covid deaths to the 6/1/22 for the age groups 18-49 is 55,701.
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January 11, 2022 1:23pm
- cmm
  
  Worse yet, these are not counted on a level playing field.
  
  When they say Fentanyl deaths they really do mean that: deaths caused by Fentanyl.
  
  The CV19 deaths are not counted the same way. These are deaths by any means within 28 days (or whatever) of testing positive or that tested positive after death.
  
  If Fentanyl deaths were counted the same way: ie. died for any reason within 28 days of using Fentanyl, then the death rate would be far, far higher.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:24pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Evolution in action. Don’t use drugs kids, there aren’t any happy endings.
  
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  January 11, 2022 3:53pm
CAKE FACE1

The names we give groups of animals are interesting.

A parliament of owls, a crash of rhinoceroses, a prickle of porcupines, a pandemonium of parrots, a caravan of camels and a shrewdness of apes are some examples.

What should we describe the group of socialists, infecting these forms?

Perhaps as a “plague of socialists” would be topical?
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January 11, 2022 1:26pm
- Bluegrass
  
  A pox of Socialists.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:08pm
- Nickc2
  
  A good call. Can I use it when referring to Labour’s Front Bench and the Speaker?
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:27pm
I remember when

Fox News: 15 Cities in US break homicide records in 2021.
Not certain how the Republican cities are doing.
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January 11, 2022 1:30pm
CAKE FACE1

Will “Aotearoa” descend into New Venezuela?

I would put the chances at 50 / 50 at the moment.

Here’s a blog post by Karl du Fresne, which I find far more disturbing than Covid:

https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2022/01/on-thomas-nash-and-hundreds-of-other.html

This neo-Marxist nutjob Mr Nash would in normal times be harmless – in the past, no mainstream media would even contemplate publishing his extremist views.

Alas, as Karl du Fresne notes, his opinion piece appeared in both NZME papers and in Stuff as well.

The saturation coverage of the views of extreme left nutjobs normalises what is in fact very dangerous propaganda.

There is no balance in the “Aotearoan” mainstream media. It has been almost completely captured by the extreme left.

The average citizen is being systematically indoctrinated by neo-Marxist extreme left propaganda.

Unless something dramatic changes in the media, National / ACT are going to have a very hard time winning the next election…
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January 11, 2022 1:48pm
- MCōs
  
  “Will “Aotearoa” descend into New Venezuela?”
  
  People have been claiming that will happen for almost five years on this forum.
  
  Still waiting.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:41pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Don’t worry: they will think of a new scare destination soon enough.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    But you are working on it MCos.
    Don’t give up yet
    
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    January 11, 2022 5:28pm
    - MCōs
      
      Me?
      
      Who do you think I am?
      Some wild eyed latter day fundamentalist, rabble rousing, revolutionary?
      
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      January 11, 2022 7:32pm
  - mawm
    
    MC – we’re halfway there. Our money is becoming “funny money” as shown by its decreased buying power, our government is worryingly inept and prone to blame everyone else for its failures AND yet pursue the same path to destruction. It might be slower than Venezuela but we are heading in the same direction. BTW I do not hold out any hope for a National Party government to turn the trajectory.
    
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    January 11, 2022 8:44pm
- Swifty
  
  What kind of person calls themselves an ‘entrepreneur’ while at the same time be employed by a university?
  
  I know what kind….
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:46pm
  - Yabster
    
    a socialist pig with his snout in the trough- who knows whats best for everyone except his on peers? He is in the Greens so no surprise there.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:32pm
- GJM
  
  Winning the next election? Will there actually be an election and if there is, will it be fair. Certainly if Cindy wins the next election, I don’t hold much hope for the next election after that going ahead.
  
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  January 12, 2022 8:35am
I remember when

It’s a race, with many participating, to be able to say – “We are so more stupid. Look at OUR rules.”
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January 11, 2022 1:48pm
cmm

Herald: “Fire at property linked to Mongrel Mob”.

Linked to??? LINKED TO??

It’s a bloody gang pad! Hardly some tenuous link.
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January 11, 2022 2:13pm
- Nickc2
  
  I wonder what their Chemists were cooking up at the time?
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:29pm
  - cmm
    
    I notice the cops are telling people to be extra cautious with the smoke. Quite likely a P-lab fire.
    
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    January 11, 2022 4:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Ca-ching!
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/pfizer-ceo-says-vaccine-to-combat-omicron-variant-will-be-ready-in-march?
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January 11, 2022 2:30pm
- cmm
  
  Yup, exactly what uncle cmm was saying.
  
  That’s why you needed the booster – to burn through the obsolete stock. Have a useless (for Omicron) booster in January for feel goods, and for the Pfizer bottom line, then get the Omicron jab in March/April.
  
  Anyone feel like betting on how many jabs they can get into people by the end of the year? Six? Seven?
  
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  January 11, 2022 4:45pm
Chuck Bird

Has anyone seen this about the New National Party.
The policies may appeal to 1% of the voters and help Comrade Ardern stay in power with the slimy Greens.

https://nnparty.co.nz/our-policies/
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January 11, 2022 2:46pm
- Nickc2
  
  Thanks Chuck but I think you’ve seriously underestimated the %age of voters it will appeal to.
  I for one can’t see anything I wouldn’t support.
  However, it does depend on who is leading the outfit and who is supporting it.
  
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  January 11, 2022 2:54pm
  - Yabster
    
    What you talking about Willis/Chuck?
    
    Burn He Pua Pua -Tick
    Repel 3waters -Tick
    MMP review-Tick
    Leave the corrupt UN- Tick
    Scrap SNA- Tick
    Gas exploration -Tick
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:36pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    There is always a tremendous tendency for many of the people frequenting Kiwiblog to imagine that their views are both correct and would be popular, if only espoused by a political party. I admire their optimism.
    
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    January 11, 2022 3:50pm
    - Yabster
      
      huh!- kettle black there milkdud.
      
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      January 12, 2022 8:02am
Bluegrass

Re various comments on Djokovic here: the Australian Federal judge’s decision appears to have been made on a technical procedural issue: i.e. failure by Border Force to have given Djokovik the right and ability to consult a lawyer.

I don’t have a problem with that, but the substantive issue — i.e. the visa requirements – seem to be still applicable outside the due process situation.

Interestingly, when I tried to research Judge Anthony Kelly’s credentials and history on a number of search engines, including the official website of the Australian Federal Circuit Court, I drew a blank – except for some risibly fake Wiki/partisan references made in broken English by the usual suspects.

I wonder why that is? Security? That seems a stretch. But I’ve never not been able to research a judge’s background before.

Personally, I have no problem with Djokovik’s stance – I call it freedom of choice. But that was not the issue in this instance.

Should be interesting at the tennis, with all those thousands of Serbs who traveled to Australia for the Open. No wait, they must be ‘Australians’ with Serbian flags and traditional village dress , as you can’t easily travel to Australia these days…

No surprises there…
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January 11, 2022 3:29pm
CAKE FACE1

Thinking outside the box, there is treatment for every kind of addiction imaginable, except for one.

Where does a socialist go to get help trying to cure their disorder?

Perhaps someone should set up a “Socialists Anonymous” organisation.

Socialists could get support and treatment for their disorder. The first step would be to admit they have a problem:

“Hi, I’m Joe Blogs, and I am a socialist. My illness crept up on me. I started reading Alison Mao on Stuff, and before I knew what was happening, I was arguing that the private property should be abolished.”

What say you?
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January 11, 2022 4:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Socialists Anonymous
  
  Someone would be the traitor and dob the others into Big brother/sister.
  
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  January 11, 2022 9:15pm
  - Bea Rossini
    
    You perhaps?
    
    1 1
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    January 11, 2022 10:17pm
CAKE FACE1

I quite enjoy reading Damien Grants columns, so I tried to listen to his podcast.

I managed about five minutes or so, but alas, it was dreadful, so I gave up.

The problem was there was an awful shouty lefty called “Bomber”, who seemed to love the sound of his own voice, above anything else. This “Bomber” character incessantly shouted drivel, drowning out all the other contributors.

It was a shame.

My suggestion to Mr Grant – do your own podcast, without the idiot socialist.
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January 11, 2022 4:50pm
Bluegrass

[Nested comment sequence is limited, nothing to do with moderating.

If you don’t like it here, ask for your money back and go elsewhere – I’m happy to see you off if you like.

Out of the approx 500 posts here today, I have approved more than 90%, and 99.9% of those without edit, and if I want to anonymously comment on some of the regular “don’t you know who I am” bullies then I will. I could be doing something else with my time, and since none of us are paid it’s appealing, but then there wouldn’t be any posting at all by the likes of you. mod.]
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January 11, 2022 5:11pm
- Bluegrass
  
  Deary me, chip on the shoulder much, bud?
  
  How amusingly ignorant.
  
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  January 11, 2022 6:27pm
surfing

I see on tonights TV1 news that Maori are asking the govt to enforce rahuis in law.

As far as I’m concerned, a Rahui is a religious concept, where an area is ‘contaminated’ by a persons death.

I’m hoping the government don’t do this, otherwise we’ll have police arresting and charging people for disturbing ghosts.
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January 11, 2022 6:20pm
- greybeard
  
  Translation of “rahui”: “Thin end of the wedge”.
  
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  January 11, 2022 7:09pm
Hollyfield

Just got called by Roy Morgan. Of particular interest – they wanted to speak to the youngest person in the house over 14. Considering there were a lot of political questions, wanting to speak to 15 year olds was very interesting to me.
In my household the youngest didn’t want to speak to him, so he came back to me. I teased him about how my answers would be very different, and he said the reason he asked to speak to young people is because it’s hard to get research from that age group.
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January 11, 2022 7:09pm
fernglas

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34374955/
Obesity is the greatest risk factor for fatal outcomes with Covid.
Has any government promoted diets for at risk people? Or a Covid passport where those with a BMI over 30 are prevented from accessing jobs and public places?
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January 11, 2022 7:27pm

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PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

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