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June 5, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 June 2022

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

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Happy World Day Against Speciesism!
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June 5, 2022 8:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  So we should treat flies the same as Labradors?
  
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  June 5, 2022 8:54am
  - Mike
    
    Both good sources of protein?
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:03am
- mandk
  
  Call me speciesist, but I reserve the right to hate cats.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:10am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Does that include all 57 genders?
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:37am
  - Joely Doe
    
    57!?
    There are 153 different genders, you bigot! (/s – for the terminally stupid…)
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:06am
    - Liberty
      
      Everyone a little weird.
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:40pm
- wilderbeast
  
  Good grief is there no end to this inane BS – for my benefit mods, is this guy part of the furniture at KB or just a random punter? Sad to think he / she waits until the General Debate opens every day to post this stuff….
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:38am
  - Mike
    
    Always nice to read the fan mail.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nice to uptick yourself as well Mike!!!
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:50am
    - Peter Lane
      
      How is it that you post under 2 different pseudonyms?
      
      Or are there more?
      
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      June 5, 2022 11:32am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’ve explained before. One is my Patreon log on which I find more convenient from my phone.
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:59am
      - wilderbeast
        
        I think the rest of us manage to use the same profile across different devices, eh?
        
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        June 5, 2022 1:31pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I’m guessing, but 2 Govt phones, a home PC, and also at home another computer using a VPN.
        There is 4, for a start.
        He may have a ‘mule’ Email the mule to post on yet another IP Address.
        
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        June 5, 2022 3:50pm
    - wilderbeast
      
      That’s what we all expect you to say. I know it’s too much to ask but try have a look at yourself, I’m sure I’m not alone in hoping you can get well.
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:41pm
  - wilderbeast
    
    One down tick from Mike, one from Milky Mike, that accounts for half of them.
    
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    June 5, 2022 1:33pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Multiple devices? I always thought it was multiple personalities!
      
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      June 5, 2022 4:23pm
      - Mike
        
        Some of the voices in my head say no.
        
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        June 5, 2022 5:21pm
  - Random Punter
    
    Definitely not me.
    
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    June 5, 2022 8:16pm
iMP

GRIEF by lawsuit. The Texas shooting, like all the others, is a terrible frightening tragedy with complex multifaceted causes. Victim families are contemplating suits against the GUNMAKER!!??

Presumably they will also sue the CAR Manufacturer that delivered the killer to the site? No disrespect amid their loss, but the politicised blame game will not resolve this social cancer in America.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/us-canada/300606180/texas-school-shooting-legal-action-against-gunmaker-possible-amid-intense-scrutiny?cid=app-iPhone
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June 5, 2022 8:06am
- Weetbix3ways
  
  Ah, the ambulance chasers – no surprise there.
  This sort of thing has done immense harm to the US, but it is unlikely there will be a law change to prevent it, given that the harm is being done by lawyers.
  Then there’s patent trolls – siimilar scam, different victims.
  
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  June 5, 2022 8:19am
  - Ra Henare
    
    and copyright claims. All I want for Christmas by Mariah Carey being sued by some prat who claims he wrote something similiar decades ago.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:59am
- Im Right
  
  USA is a litigious country. More bloody lawyers than you can shake a stick at. Hell even if you trip over in a store (through your own bloody clumsiness) the store owner is petrified you will sue him or his store for your clumsiness….it’s a Lawyer’s paradise. And the ambulance chasing lawyers promise the ‘victim’ millions in compensation payout when in actual fact most are settled out of court and the Lawyer gets most of the money, it’s nothing more than a legal scam, Ponzi scheme if you will!
  
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  June 5, 2022 8:32am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Friend of mine in America, petrified she would be sued(she is a doctor) when she took the car in to get winter tyres fitted. Mechanic baked it out of garage, to go for a spin around the block as a checkout, and clipped a pedestrian.
    The Tyre shop accepted all blame and they were insured.
    My friend was beside herself,. Made tyre shop swear to not divulge she was a doctor as then the pedestrians lawyers would go for her.
    She paid tens of thousands for insurance premiums to cover everything. But still shit scared.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:04am
    - Paulus
      
      I was aware of a US doctor who watched as a serious car crash occurred – she drove on as she was not licenced to practice in that State.
      
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      June 5, 2022 2:05pm
  - David Garrett
    
    I’m right: And it would be just as bad here if we didn’t have ACC which precludes people suing for personal injury. Australia is full of ambulance chasing lawyers, just like the US.
    
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    June 5, 2022 2:47pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      David, you will know far more about this than I but Kiwis were promised free health care if they gave up their rights to sue. The right to sue is (mostly) gone but free health care is very difficult to obtain and even when possible the waiting lists are tremendous.
      
      For example, to get cataract surgery you have to basically be blind in both eyes. Catatacts in one eye does not qualify you. I could go on and on but many people already know what I am talking about.
      
      We gave up and pay for private insurance.
      
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      June 5, 2022 5:41pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  They’re just looking for the outfit with the deepest pockets iMP (to assuage their grief of course). And I thought that in Texas you can’t sue gun manufacturers anyway. So good luck with that.
  
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  June 5, 2022 8:43am
  - Rodion Raskolnikov
    
    Surely the federal government has the deepest pockets, and is also the most culpable, given that they stood around outside tasing concerned parents for an hour. This latter element defies all reasonable explanation.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:22am
- Opie
  
  Well, families of the sandy hook victims got 73 million off Remington this year so the precedent has been set.
  
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  June 5, 2022 8:52am
- DRHILL
  
  Gun control works in other parts of the world. It will NOT work in the USA. Guns are a part of their culture, their history.
  They will need to find a different way to stop the gun violence.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:03am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Which are the other parts of the world where “gun control works”? New Zealand?
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:17am
    - quarterpack
      
      Yes I would put it you that we are well ahead of the US in this respect, despite the best efforts of our gun lobby
      
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      June 5, 2022 12:33pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        That depends on what you think the purpose of the gun control laws is. If it’s removing dangerous weapons from the hands of bad guys, which I suggest is a reasonable interpretation, it has been a spectacular failure.
        
        It’s not a question of being better or worse than somewhere else, it’s whether the laws we have in New Zealand are fit for purpose in New Zealand. They’re clearly not.
        
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        June 5, 2022 4:54pm
  - Rodion Raskolnikov
    
    It isn’t the gun culture, the problem is very particular to America because it has very particular set of factors that other countries don’t have. If we took away all of the ubiquitous Black and Hispanic gang shootings that make up the vast bulk of total mass shooting events (three or more victims), as well as the (usually highly suspect) well-publicised school/public space shootings, the US would have a comparable level of gun homicides as any European country.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:27am
    - virtualmark
      
      So in the Buffalo supermarket shooting … was the shooter a black or a hispanic gang member?
      
      And in the Uvalde shooting … was the shooter a gang member?
      
      And in the 2018 Parkland shooting … back or hispanic?
      
      And in the 2017 Las Vegas shooting … black or hispanic?
      
      I can list more if you like.
      
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      June 5, 2022 2:32pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        virtualmark your little distraction list is a cute tactic but as RR pointed out , “Black and Hispanic gang shootings that make up the vast bulk of total mass shooting events (three or more victims)” Do you dispute that? If so, why and what source are you using to do so?
        
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        June 5, 2022 3:31pm
      - virtualmark
        
        NZer in exile …
        
        Live by the sword, die by the sword. I understand the gang shooting story. As a white guy I won’t plan on driving through Compton any time.
        
        But none of the Uvalde schoolkids were living by the sword. Neither were the people in the Buffalo supermarket. etc etc.
        
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        June 5, 2022 5:25pm
- Mike
  
  In the US desperste and angry people turn to the courts to deliver some justice when the political system refuses tk act on the clear popular demand to control firearms.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:06am
  - iMP
    
    Is that why the ex Mongrel Mob handed in so many illegal weapons? NOT!
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What needs to be addressed is mental health. The shooter gave many warnings on social media.
  Also background check on obtaining a gun license.
  The shooter passed the test 2 weeks after his 18th birthday. A person living with his grandparents, had a drug addicted mother, and the father was long gone. Whoever passed him for that test has to bear some responsibility and stood down from the job.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:19am
  - Philview
    
    It seems to be the same scenario every time. Mental health issues and well known threats in advance of the event. When we go on holiday to the US the airport border is an armed fortress but they are very slack on what goes on inside the country.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:29am
    - mawm
      
      Phil – one of the most common features of the school shooters are that they come from fatherless families. Add to that the use or abuse of drugs such as Ritalin and SSRI’s.
      
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      June 5, 2022 2:03pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        They also pick on kids, in a “Gun Free Zone”
        
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        June 5, 2022 3:53pm
  - Grunt
    
    But you can’t refuse him a gun licence, that’s prejudice! Pity the nineteen victims who paid the ultimate price for wokeism.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:42am
    - virtualmark
      
      The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of … schoolchildren
      
      I’m sure that’s what the founding fathers meant. But Thomas Jefferson was shite with words.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:18am
      - Rodion Raskolnikov
        
        Nobody thinks that. However, the prevalence of such appalling events is vanishingly small. The reason they seem to be more prevalent than they really are is because of the propaganda value they have. They are covered widely because they act as an argument for mass disarmament (and, I think, a weak argument). The reality is that inter-gang shootings make up the bulk of mass shootings in the US, yet this goes against the narrative so they are not publicised. The authorities don’t really care about homicides per se, they just use them as a pretext to disarm, and therefore more easily pacify, the populace.
        
        It is a crime problem among a certain demographic, not a legal gun ownership problem. Given that there is something like 400,000,000 guns in the US (i.e. more guns than people), the rate of mass shootings is tiny, and is not a good justification for disarming the population. By the same reason, cars should be banned because a tiny fraction of drivers have fatal accidents.
        
        The question that should be addressed, if they are serious about stopping mass shootings, is “what makes someone want to shoot a load of random strangers?” Fundamentally, a broken society produces mass killings, not weapons. The problem is a contemporary problem, so the answer lies in contemporary society, not gun control, because Americans have been heavily armed for the preceding 200 years without much incident.
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:42am
      - virtualmark
        
        Nobody thinks that *out loud*.
        
        But it’s implicit in their actions. But America’s experience shows there is a clear trade-off between “constitutional” gun rights, and the harm caused by mass shootings. The NRA, GOP and many of the commentators here are against any tightening of gun regulation … implicitly at the expense of mass shootings of innocent bystanders.
        
        To them the “constitution” (at least their wilful mis-interpretation of that) trumps the lives of school kids.
        
        What other civilised country has their school children practise shooter drills like the USA does?
        
        And no, it’s not *just* a certain demographic. It’s the combination of a certain demographic who has easy access to guns. You think that same demographic doesn’t also exist in the UK, Australia, Canada, NZ, Europe etc? Sure it does. But in those countries those people can’t just go any buy an AR-15 on EasyPay.
        
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        June 5, 2022 12:25pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Virtualmark: “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of … schoolchildren”
        
        Just like stating “The tree of liberty on the road must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of … children mowed down by freedom loving drivers”.
        
        I hate to say this but that’s typical poorly thought out knee-jerk thinking. It’s also just poorly reasoned emotional stunt-pulling.
        
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        June 5, 2022 3:36pm
      - virtualmark
        
        NZer in exile,
        
        No it’s not. Driving has benefits. We drive because it creates value for us. So yes, there’s a “cost” in some fatalities and injuries. But the cost:benefit is overwhelmingly in favour of driving.
        
        Whereas ownership of semi-automatic rifles has little to no community benefit, but an increasing community cost (I’m talking about America here).
        
        A majority of American citizens favour much tighter gun regulations, presumably because they’re sensible enough to understand the cost:benefit story is all cost and little benefit.
        
        Note too that driving in America is *way* more regulated and controlled than gun ownership is. You have to pass a test, you have to register your vehicle, you have to carry your license & registration at all times, you must have insurance (albeit that’s often ignored), you can be sued for mis-use of the vehicle. Etc etc.
        
        So overall your comparison is really quite facile.
        
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        June 5, 2022 5:30pm
  - Mike H S
    
    Agreed. Just like the NZPolice need to take some responsibility for the issuing of a firearms licence to the Chch mosque shooter.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:58am
    - Bridgenag
      
      No proper investigation into how he got the guns either………..sigh
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:11am
  - virtualmark
    
    So is American mental health that much worse than the mental health in other Western countries?
    
    What is it about America that means lots of mass shootings, while the rest of the first world gets by with hardly any? Try explaining to me what is unique to America that makes mass shootings literally an every-day occurrence there and not in, say, Germany.
    
    Hint: It’s the access to guns. Particularly semi-automatic military style guns.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:17am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mental illness – enhance by drugs. Prescribed Medication and Meth/Fentanyl don’t really mix.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        US legislators have been nearly as friendly to the opioid companies as they are to the gun industry.
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:59am
      - virtualmark
        
        Was the Uvalde shooter on meth? Or fentanyl? That’s not a detail I’ve heard to date.
        
        Even if they were … how much damage could they do without easy access to a semi-automatic?
        
        Its. The. Access. To. Guns.
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:04am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The drugs come through the border Mike. Built the Wall.
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:04am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        virtualmark@ 11.04.
        I did not say the Uvalde shooter was on drugs, but he did have a mental issue.
        I was pointing out that drugs come across the southern border. The Dems seem to be thinking they don’t need to stop it.
        The shooter had a license and bout guns 2 weeks after turning 18. This should not have happened if his background was checked. Guns are not the problem. The system is the problem.
        NZ gun buy back is a fucking joke. Where do the Killer Beez and the Tribesmen get the guns? The naughty boys did not hand them in and the Police are too scared to clean them out. It is the system that is the problem.
        
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        June 5, 2022 1:36pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Steve,
        
        I strongly agree with NZ’s ban on semi-automatic weapons.
        
        I agree with the buy-back scheme, although I would have payed more for each gun handed in.
        
        What I would do differently is pass a law that makes:
        – use of a firearm in a crime an automatic life sentence,
        – possessing a banned weapon (such as a semi-automatic) an offence with a minimum sentence of at least something like 5 years.
        
        Both major political parties have got squishy on sentencing. We need to see incarceration as a punishment, a deterrent, a means of protecting society from anti-social behaviour … and then fourthly and lastly as a means for rehabilitation. But I would suggest that if you have used a gun in a crime then we’re well beyond conversations about rehabilitation.
        
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        June 5, 2022 2:19pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        VM ” use of a firearm in a crime an automatic life sentence”
        
        Would threatening to stab someone with a knife rather than a bullet be much different?
        
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        June 5, 2022 5:03pm
      - virtualmark
        
        I’d be happy to have use of a knife in a crime as an aggravating factor in sentencing.
        
        My comments were focused on use of a firearm because that’s what this thread of comments is about.
        
        But, as I’ve said elsewhere on this page, much harder to kill 19 school kids in a mass knifing than it is to kill them with an AR-15.
        
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        June 5, 2022 5:34pm
    - amospicton
      
      You’re right of course vm but as NZ has shown you can’t make them go away. Any attempt to do so ends up taking guns from the law abiding thus empowering the lawless. There’s no easy solution.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:57am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Where do the Killer Beez and the Tribesmen get their guns?
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:06am
    - Rodion Raskolnikov
      
      “Hint: It’s the access to guns. Particularly semi-automatic military style guns.”
      
      That is misleading on the one hand, and false on the other. Homicides with rifles (all types) are only 2.6%, whereas homicides with hand guns make up 45.7%.
      
      https://www.criminalattorneycolumbus.com/which-weapons-are-most-commonly-used-for-homicides/
      
      As I have posted elsewhere, most of the gun crimes in the US involve Black and Hispanic gang shootings, typically using handguns. These occur in great numbers every weekend, yet there is little narrative value in covering these events widely. The idea that White guys are going out killing with their legally purchased AR-15s is simply false, and is not supported by the statistics. It happens, but it is extremely rare.
      
      The root problem, in addition to many kids being on prescribed SSRIs and social dislocation, is ethnic urban crime, which helps explain why America has such bad stats, whereas, say, European countries don’t: they don’t have Blacks and Hispanics.
      
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      June 5, 2022 12:04pm
      - virtualmark
        
        European countries have less “Blacks and hispanics” as you so respectfully say, but they do have a lot of North African immigrants, and refugees, and so on. They have their own-but-different criminal underclass.
        
        European countries do have relatively more knife crime, because it’s hard to get guns.
        
        But it’s harder to mass murder 19 people in a primary school using a knife than it is with an AR-15.
        
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        June 5, 2022 2:22pm
    - mawm
      
      Virtualmark – take some time to learn how heavily medicated Americans are. SSRI’s are handed out to kids at the drop of a hat – and they do cause some people to commit heinous violent crimes. Ritalin is handed out like M&M’s too. Ritalin has a cocaine like effect and is abused because of the feeling of euphoria it provides. It too is associated with extreme violence. This is before even looking at illegal drugs being shipped in over the border.
      
      The second issue in America is the fatherlessness of these kids. They grow up in dysfunctional situations and have no father figure to teach them the “rules” of life. BTW most mass shooters are black and they have somewhere around 75% of their kids growing up without a father.
      
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      June 5, 2022 2:14pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Check out Candace Owens on Fatherless Families. Book is titled “Blackout”. It covers a lot including getting ‘off the Plantation’
        The modern day plantation is the Democrats, and how Black Americans are promised all sorts before an Election, but get sweet fuck all.
        
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        June 5, 2022 4:06pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Virtualmark: Hint: Breakdown and disrespect of the family, social isolation (greatly fuelled by smart phones, social media and the internet). Hateful and violent criminal sub-cultures (a biggy). Wide availability of recreational drugs to high school students. Under-funded mental health services. Scaring the crap out of kids with half baked climate hysteria. Divisive feminist bigotry which essentially sends the message to boys that men are walking pathologies and women are wonderful by default. Outsourcing of millions of jobs (creating more hopeless impoverished zones at home). Batshit crazy woke ideology being forced on students (often by stealth). The list goes on. Happy and well people don’t go mowing other people down regardless of how many illegal guns are floating around.
      
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      June 5, 2022 3:50pm
      - virtualmark
        
        All Western countries are battling much the same set of problems. But it’s only in America that we see a steady stream of mass shootings.
        
        Maybe what’s different about the USA is the easy access to guns?
        
        Maybe your political self-identity has gotten so intertwined with guns that you’d twist your logic inside out rather than face that simple reality?
        
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        June 5, 2022 5:37pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    In the same way that the Police – who gave Tarrant a gun license, and Jacinda – who introduced a less-thorough online approval process were held to account bear responsibility and have been stood down from their jobs.
    
    Well, someone’s been held to account surely – oh yes, that’s right. Responsible licensed firearms owners.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That is what I am saying. The system is the problem
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:38pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    In the USA I was able to buy any rifle or shotgun without an examination or background check. That was 25 years ago and things may have changed.
    
    In New Zealand I, my wife and several of our employees were personally interviewed before I could get a gun license. Also had to sit an exam. I prefer the New Zealand method.
    
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    June 5, 2022 5:49pm
- MCōs
  
  I would suggest if my grandkids were killed because irresponsible gun manufacturers were shown to be bribing lawmakers enable easy access to their products, I’d be annoyed with too.
  I might point out that thirty years ago Stella Liebeck sued McDonalds because she was burned by their coffee, and won.
  So what might sound unusual to you isn’t always.
  https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts#:~:text=In%201992%2C%2079%2Dyear%2D,coffee%20supposed%20to%20be%20hot%3F
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Coffee should not be served boiling hot in flimsy cups through car windows.
    
    Firearms are explicitly intended for killing and in the case of hand guns for exclusively killing people.
    
    False equivalence.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:37am
    - MCōs
      
      My point is that if someone can make a case to successfully sue MacDonalds for such a thing someone will by eying up gun manufacturers.
      Probably have already for all I know.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:09am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Not the same thing. You are just repeating your comment.
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:38am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Also used for target practice, it is a sport – even Olympic Sport (although they don’t use the “Military Style AR 15s)
      Talk to those who have been is conflict, top soldiers or SAS. With an AR 15 you would be a joke in conflict.
      
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      June 5, 2022 4:10pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    There is no relationship between the rate of gun ownership in different countries and the rate of mass shootings.
    This case points to mental illness, and failures in various systems making the event worse.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:42am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Really? I think you will find that the USA is massively over represented in mass shootings?
      
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      June 5, 2022 9:47am
      - All_on_Red
        
        No it isnt. That was a myth created by some bogus research which omitted huge detail of shootings in other Countries.
        Also research by NPR showed large numbers of incidents claimed happen near schools were anecdotal.
        The US is way down the list.
        That said, they could certainly increase the standard of vetting.
        The standard FBI check sometimes isnt enough. You have to wonder that if this guy was interviewed by Police and had to provide references to vouch for him (like we do) that this could have been prevented.
        Although, he might have used his truck then…
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:17am
      - virtualmark
        
        Red,
        
        Please point to another first world country where an 18 year old could go into a gunshot and buy two semi-automatic rifles without so much as a background check.
        
        I’ll wait.
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:20am
      - All_on_Red
        
        I dont disagree its too easy VM
        That wasnt my point
        And I point out elsewhere what they could do to improve the system
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:20am
      - Sideoiler
        
        Really? I think you will find that the USA is massively over represented in mass shootings?
        
        Really? pretty sure that Mexico, Guatemala, Nicaragu & Colombia have more deaths by firearms and mass shootings per capita than the US and in most of the above jurisdictions the private ownership of firearms is prohibited.
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:00pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      AoR – 100% correct. There is no correlation between number of firearms per capita and firearm related homicide.
      
      https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F17466e71-7719-470c-adc6-ae4a86e61235_740x1298.jpeg
      
      Bad Cattitude has done an excellent blog post on the subject of the US constitution and the 2nd amendment. I learned a lot from reading it.
      
      https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/guns-and-government?s=r
      
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      June 5, 2022 9:47am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        From that, “the ultimate guarantor of the rights of the people is the people.”
        Dicks like Biden are saying the second is not absolute. It is, sunshine.
        “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
        Shall not be infringed makes it absolute.
        
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        June 5, 2022 9:55am
      - virtualmark
        
        Steve,
        
        Article I, Section 8, Clauses 12 through 16. That’s where the Constitution defines what is a militia, and how it is to be raised, equipped and directed.
        
        Then the Second Amendment includes the words “well regulated”, which aligns with that Article I, Section 8 content.
        
        Added to which there is plenty of US legal precedent for regulating access to guns. For example the 1934 National Firearms Act. And SCOTUS decisions clearly setting out that access to weapons is not a free for all but is circumscribed by Government regulation.
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:36am
      - virtualmark
        
        And Steve, please enlighten me … just who is it that the gun advocates in the United States are so afraid of that they need all the guns? Just who is the “militia” meant to be fighting? Just what is the the threat to the security of the free state?
        
        Is it the Canadians?
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:42am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        virtualmark, on your 10.42.
        The Democrats are the problem. USA is turning socialist and may end up like Venezuela and Cuba if not stopped. The Democrats are not the Democrats of yesteryear, they are power crazy and will do anything – anything to get control. Civil War? Seems to be heading that way. It will take a few more years. The pro gun people want to be ready.
        ‘First they came for your guns’
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:15am
      - virtualmark
        
        Steve, if you think the Democrats are a rational reason for hoarding guns and tinned food then your cholesterol reading is higher than your IQ.
        
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        June 5, 2022 12:29pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        VM the genie is well out of the bottle re guns in the US.
        
        If you crack down on legal guns you will just have tons of well armed crims with the millions of illegal guns there.
        
        Talk to people who have lived in South Africa. Carrying a .45 handgun on your person is considered normal there for even the most innocuous and frail looking people. They don’t do that just because they like playing at being a Hollywood tough guy! It’s so they can avoid being gang raped or murdered!
        
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        June 5, 2022 4:09pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I think it speaks largely about American culture whereby if they don’t like someone or understand them, they shoot them. They have been doing so ever since colonisation and latterly being given the right to bear arms.
      In saying this, we would be among the least qualified in the world to lecture America about its gun laws, just look at our own. We took the guns off law-abiding people and neglected those with inherent criminal intent.
      Any resemblance between Akld and the American Wild West is purely coincidental.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:12am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Taking the legally owned guns off people in NZ was never going to have any impact on those who have them for illegal purposes. This was clearly stated at the time and of course, ignored by the virtue signaling “look at me, look at me” narcissist we have as PM in NZ. It was all about her international “profile” and her desire to be seen to be doing “something”. Just like with covid.
        
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        June 5, 2022 10:32am
    - Inandout
      
      AoR, Crowder in his humourous way discusses Trudeau’s latest edict on hand guns (1.19). I didn’t realise Canada had so many mass shootings over the years.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN-mXtuPLfM
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:43pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    What a load of shit from that. Skin grafts for 3rd degree burns? It is only a bit of blistering. I say this because I have been burnt – 4th degree. Petrol leaked from a machine and set my overalls on fire. My knee and leg was burnt into the flesh about the size of a tea saucer.
    This was back in the middle 8os. Middlemore burns clinic is top notch, and probably much better now.
    Anyway, that woman and her lawyer/s were gold diggers plain and simple.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:49am
- Matt Long
  
  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/minority-groups-discuss-uptick-firearm-purchases-gun-control-debate
  Meanwhile Americans of all ethnicities are buying firearms to protect themselves.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:25am
  - Mike
    
    One reason why gun manufacturers love mass shootings: they’re good for business.
    
    4 16
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    June 5, 2022 9:27am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      One of the reasons why pharmaceutical companies love “pandemics” and also one of the reasons why the military industrial complex loves coups and violent overthrow of legitimate governments.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:12am
      - MCōs
        
        Engineers make a living convincing the appropriate authorities buildings need to be continually upgraded to meet the latest seismic requirements.
        
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        June 5, 2022 12:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    When there is a shooting and the ban guns protests start, gun purchasing increases. Especially when a Politician opens their mouth. In Alaska I have seen tons of ammunition cleared out in 2 days at Bass Pro. Guns, not so much, Alaskans already have guns everywhere.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:03am
  - iMP
    
    And there are lots of mass shoutings by a State in Ukraine right now.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:52am
- Frank Hematuria
  
  Google the USD 73 million Remington Arms settlement.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:47am
- Jim
  
  The woke culture war in Western society is getting worse and causing endless types of State sponsored division.
  
  Even if all the guns were removed from circulation, I wager the violence would only continue with bombs and machetes.
  
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  June 5, 2022 1:07pm
Yvette

“3 Waters” – Are ACT, National, and objecting councils actually questioning the heart or crux of the issue?
Are they questioning the parts of “3 Waters” that have already been established? –

Tipa Mahuta, Nanaia Mahuta’s sister, chairs a Māori Advisory Group which conveys Māori interests and knowledge to Taumata Arowai, now the new water services regulator – the first key pou, or pillar, of the Government’s Three Waters Reform Programme.

So why such concern at 3 Waters iwi / Māori “co-governance” at lower entity level – why, in fact, the need for Maori input there – when Tipa Mahuta chairs a Māori Advisory Group to “rule them all”?
__________

Reference –
1
… The Māori Advisory Group was appointed by the Acting Minister of Local Government on 20 May 2021 and is chaired by Tipa Mahuta. Established under the Taumata Arowai–the Water Services Regulator Act 2020 the Māori Advisory Group advises on Māori interests and knowledge as they relate to the objectives, functions, and operating principles of Taumata Arowai and the Board’s collective duties. [1]
Chair Tipa Mahuta said that the Māori Advisory Group is pleased to be able to support the Board and Taumata Arowai to build its understanding and knowledge of how to uphold its responsibilities with regards to Te Mana o te  Wai [2]

2
Taumata Arowai now new water services regulator
15 November 2021
Media Release
From today Taumata Arowai begins its role and powers as the new independent water services regulator for Aotearoa, replacing the previous responsibilities of the Ministry of Health, under the Water Services Act 2021.
… Taumata Arowai Board Chair, Dame Karen Poutasi, says that the new Crown entity will begin by focusing on regulating drinking water services to help ensure safe and sufficient drinking water across Aotearoa.
… Taumata Arowai was established following the inquiry into a 2016 outbreak of waterborne disease in Havelock North’s drinking water supply. It is the first key pou, or pillar, of the Government’s Three Waters Reform Programme. [2]

3
First Three Waters legislation presented to Parliament
Mahuta said the bill would secure community ownership of the water entities, and while it had robust mechanisms to provide for iwi / Māori interests in the system, it also made clear that did not extend to ownership. [3]

[1] Water Services Regulator Act reference – https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0052/latest/LMS294393.html#LMS294393
[2] https://www.taumataarowai.govt.nz/news/articles/taumata-arowai-now-new-water-services-regulator/
[3] https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/06/02/first-three-waters-legislation-presented-to-parliament/
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June 5, 2022 8:19am
- Yvette
  
  Oops! – sorry, what I meant to add above, to make things even longer, was this –
  
  Tuku Morgan (Waikato Tainui), is a member of the Three Waters working group who in March dismissed claims that Māori would own the country’s water infrastructure under the reforms. “There is a view being promoted by some of the councillors around the country that this is a Māori grab for power, that we are interested in owning these water assets,” he told 1News. “It’s absolute nonsense. We have always said, that we’re not interested in owning the water assets. What we’re interested in is the proprietor rights over water, and that is a discussion to be had with the Crown, not with councils.”
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/29/iwi-involvement-aims-to-further-safeguard-water-assets-robertson/
  
  Tipa Mahuta and sister Nanaia Mahuta may agree. If so, they are perhaps well on their way
  What precedent does the Māori Advisory Group (Chairperson, Tipa Mahuta) to Taumata Arowai, and Taumata Arowai itself, establish?
  
  As has been suggested before –
  There is no power in pipes – they are only provision, maintenance, expenditure and headache.
  Power is in what is in the pipes.
  Real power is “proprietor rights over water”
  Not just what comes out your kitchen tap, or goes off down the toilet, but also what sprinkles irrigated crops, supports the Shotover Jet, and surges through Benmore
  
  Not to mention the Lake Onslow perpetual water scheme or Southland’s proposed hydrogen manufacture – from water (while the rest of the sensible world makes hydrogen from natural gas, as lies under the feet of those in Taranaki, or may lie off-shore of Oamaru, but we won’t ever now look for it further)
  
  (So, I return to my cup of morning coffee – about 99 percent water, heated by power generated by more water pounding through afore-mentioned Benmore, or some power station south of here)
  ____
  
  And … shitzen! even more …
  If… Taumata Arowai was established following the inquiry into a 2016 outbreak of waterborne disease in Havelock North’s drinking water supply [and] it is the first key pou, or pillar, of the Government’s Three Waters Reform Programme …
  – does Taumata Arowai, already established, knock out much of the argument Mahuta uses for “3 Waters” – that whole “sludge coming out your kitchen tap of filling your bath” dopey animated television commercials campaign that cost millions of dollars, and offended more millions – of fleeced taxpayer viewers?
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:22am
artemisia

I expect, and certainly hope, that Opposition parties are relentlessly gathering data and asking questions on required outcomes of expenditure. Of course, business cases will include required outcomes and they are being measured, right? OIA requests from voters too.

A few years back it was uncovered that the Problem Gambling Foundation in Hamilton had almost no clients but did have its original budget. That led to a shakeup with the PGF – it was put right on the spot.

More please.

Then there needs to be questions about recommendations from the many many ‘working groups’ – what have been implemented, what have not and importantly why not. Hint – much easier to ask questions than to answer them!

I hope a change of government will see plenty of rigour around expectations on many fronts, including terms of reference. No reason ToR etc can’t be updated and if the recipients of funding don’t like the changes, well ….
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June 5, 2022 8:23am
Prince

Point of Order blog introduces us to a new director appointed by Ardern to a Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism, He Whenua Taurikura.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2022/06/04/buzz-from-the-beehive-pathway-is-renamed-to-honour-our-head-of-state-so-how-will-that-go-down-with-the-maori-party/

Ardern launched the Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism, He Whenua Taurikura.
This has got off to a splendid start thanks to the appointment of Professor Joanna Kidman as one of the centre’s two directors.
Martyn Bradbury has some reservations, given Kidman orgamised a hate mob against Trelise Cooper for calling a dress ‘Trail of Tiers’.
And Karl du Fresne wrote two years ago that Kidman referred to the the seven professors who wrote to the Listener about Maori Science
“Where do these shuffling zombies come from? Is it something in the water?” It was accompanied by a video clip from a zombie movie.
Just the person, according to Ardern, to adjudicate on Hate Speech.

At least it destroys any idea that the crack down on ‘Hate Speech’ is really just another corrupt excuse to install Labour Luvvies in highly paid jobs designed to protect Ardern and her cronies.
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June 5, 2022 8:33am
- Oskar
  
  Professor Joanna Kidman is a strong proponent of Critical Race Theory and approaches social issues from that point of view.
  By the way what is it with Maori and top hats – see the picture in this article
  https://waateanews.com/2022/06/03/kidman-to-head-anti-terror-research-center/
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:30am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “By the way what is it with Maori and top hats”
    
    Some people are posers and “bad ass” is their preferred pose? They are “unique”, just like all the other posers who look the same. 😝
    
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    June 5, 2022 4:19pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Oskar I had a look at the link. Very Orwellian! Appears to be a unit designed to shut down debate about the treaty etc.
    
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    June 5, 2022 4:33pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And remember Professor Kidman tweeted this about Richard Dawkins when he wrote of the Royal Society of NZ censuring of the Listener 7:
  
  Richard Dawkins, OWG in excelsis, argues, with numerous factual errors about indigenous knowledge, that @royalsocietynz shouldn’t follow up on complaints made about its fellows In other, related, news, OWG barks at moon. https://t.co/GSIRBddXRq
  
  However, she has since blocked access to public viewing of her tweets
  
  https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2021/12/17/bring-on-the-wiles-v-dawkins-debate-and-prospects-of-our-being-demystified-but-he-might-be-disqualified-as-a-dinosaur/
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/12/general_debate_20_december_2021.html#comment-3088938
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:44am
- nathie
  
  Is the Orwellian “Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism” funded by the taxpayer?
  
  If so, excellent, another “extremist” entity that can be shut down by a new National/ACT government in 2023, and redirect the taxpayer funding to something else that is more productive and beneficial for all NZ’ers.
  
  Talk about yet another trough full of gravy for the “elitist academic class” spreading “hate and disinformation” themselves, adding more “divisiveness” to NZ society as they seek to control the narrative!
  
  Labour should be ashamed for enabling and supporting this!
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Labour can’t handle the fact that the philosophy espoused by Brenton Tarrant did not arise from a home-grown entity.
    
    Tarrant realised that NZ afforded him a base in which he could easily purchase semi-automatics and copious ammo…..NO QUESTIONS ASKED…
    and fly under the Government terrorist-watch radar.
    
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    June 5, 2022 1:22pm
  - Prince
    
    Yes but not before Stuff proclaims, around July/August next year,
    CENTRE OF EXCELLENCE FINDS RIGHT WING WHITE SUPREMACIST HATRED RAMPANT IN AOTEAROA
    
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    June 5, 2022 2:37pm
blue collar

Carn blackcaps !
They’re on the ropes like our economy , right where we want them , cdve skunked em by now but it’s obvious that the boys are stringing this out for a dramatic finish .
5 wickets for 40 runs coming right up
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June 5, 2022 8:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Commander was the person holding the Police back. He did NOT follow the training manual. He is the coward. Now his house is being guarded by Police 24/7, so he is still a coward.
The parents are frustrated and angry – and rightly so.
This news item explains a few things:
https://trendingpolitics.com/they-let-our-babies-get-slaughtered-grieving-uvalde-parent-slams-cowardly-police-response-wiley/?
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June 5, 2022 9:24am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yesterday I posted an item by Liz Wheeler. It is 51 minutes, but very precise.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:25am
CJames

There was a two page article in yesterdays Dom Post about Lake Onslow. Despite all those column inches, there was no wor on where the electricity to fill the lake was to come from and how that would be paid for. Funny that. I would have thought that would be one of the first questions asked by the investigative reporter. It is almost as if they are economic illiterates.
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June 5, 2022 9:34am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The article did focus more on the environmental benefits and the technical aspects of the scheme.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:36am
  - CJames
    
    There are no environmental benefits if you have to burn coal like at present to get the surplus power. And no-one will build new renewables stations with Onslow hanging over them – unless they get more subsidies.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:42am
  - CJames
    
    mike – the technical aspects were glossed over. The schist is notoriously leaky ( not only in the lake but power house site) and there are fault zones. How will those be dealt with? Then there could be issues with the rising water table on talus slopes. Remember why Clyde was late and had cost over-runs.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those reporters think electricity come from the 3 pin socket on the wall. Seriously, they do!
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:36am
  - mogg
    
    Electricity comes from a coal mine somewhere in Indonesia.
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:45am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I had a conversation a couple of years back with a woman who owned an EV. She was a fan of banning ICE vehicles. I asked her where all that electricity would come from. She replied “You just plug the car into a power socket in the garage.” True story. 🤡
    
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    June 5, 2022 9:45am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      She sounds like an Ardern voter.
      
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      June 5, 2022 10:39am
    - CJames
      
      Actual Benedict as many people like pointing out (me included) EVs are Indonesian coal powered as that is where the marginal generation comes from.
      
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      June 5, 2022 11:25am
    - iMP
      
      Where does the rubber for the wheels come from?
      
      8 2
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      June 5, 2022 11:58am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        From Beaurepaires. Comes out of thin air out the back of the tyre supply place//
        
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        June 5, 2022 1:43pm
    - kowtow
      
      The tyre targetting vandals consider her fait game too.
      
      I lurv it when the comrades have the ole internecine .
      
      From their website
      
      “Hybrids and electric cars are fair game. We cannot electrify our way out of the climate crisis – there are not enough rare earth metals to replace everyone’s car and the mining of these metals causes suffering. Plus, the danger to other road users still stands, as does the air pollution (PM 2.5 pollution is still produced from tyres and brake pads).”
      
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      June 5, 2022 4:45pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  This scheme seems to be designed to get New Zealand from 90 plus percent renewables to 100 percent. What is the point? Why can’t we use coal and natural gas for the last 10 percent? We would still be world leaders.
  
  I am not across the technology of this pumped hydro concept. I would like to hear from an expert engineer that it is technically feasible and economic against other energy sources. I am not interested in anything Megan Woods has to say.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:42am
  - kevn
    
    @BY… Bryan Leyland might have something up on-line. He is a true expert.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:17am
    - Nickc2
      
      IMO, Pumped hydro is uneconomic. Too much power is used in the pumping operation and a lot is used/lost in power distribution.
      Stick with fossils or go nuclear.
      Man-made climate change is a myth and a scam!
      
      23 2
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      June 5, 2022 10:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        If we go nuclear electricity, someone will make a bomb/////
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:31am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Just build another big south island hydro dam. It will see NZ right with relatively clean baseload power for decades. It’s a natural competitive advantage NZ has. FFS use it!
        
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        June 5, 2022 4:22pm
  - virtualmark
    
    This scheme has been the brainchild and passion of Dr Keith Turner, formerly CEO of Meridian Energy and, to be fair, one of the brighter and more innovative thinkers in the electricity industry.
    
    Doesn’t mean I agree with Keith on this particular project. But I do respect his knowledge and expertise.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:23am
    - CJames
      
      Virtual – it wasn’t the brainchild of Keith Turner. I remember him from NZE days – he wasn’t innovative then. When he was head of Meridian, him and his company had no interest in Onslow. It was the brainchild of Earl Bardsley.
      Since Keith retired and became a consultant, he now plays the government’s tune.
      
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      June 5, 2022 11:40am
      - virtualmark
        
        Maybe. I think Meridian would view Onslow as bad for business, so I doubt Keith would have advocated for pumped storage during his time there.
        
        Not come across Earl Bardsley. I do have a lot of time for Keith, he’s a creative thinker. But I don’t think Onslow is a good idea.
        
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        June 5, 2022 12:34pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    You can see comments on this by a power engineer at When is there spare electricity?, and he said he made similar comments a year ago on KB – especially this comment.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:04am
  - CJames
    
    Benedict – The technology and location are technically feasible. It is nowhere near economic as I went through a week or so ago in GD. And we will still need fast start thermal for every time there are problems with the DC link.
    The universities consider me enough of an expert to lect post-grads on how it all works.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There is the implicit assumption that there will be times when the nation has surplus electricity (summer months) …
  When the country is in that mode, water will be pumped into lake Onslow. ….
  and somehow, miraculously, will not evaporate… and will wait until it can be used to generate hydro-electrikery.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    As an example my grand daughter showed me how this storing energy works. She has a powerpack to recharge her phone. If you get the USB cable and plug it into itself, it will recharge itself.
    She tried it……
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:40am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Years ago I explained to my primary school-age daughter that I couldn’t purchase something because I had no money.
      “Well, go to the bank and get some out”, she told me.
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:28pm
    - JohnRidd
      
      “If you get the USB cable and plug it into itself, it will recharge itself.”
      
      Sounds like keynsian economics.
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:51pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        This is when she was 12 – and knows everything
        
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        June 5, 2022 4:34pm
- Inandout
  
  CJ, what will it take to convince electricity consumers that we can’t rely on constant power? Yesterday at 11am my wife did one machine wash and on the second there was no hot water from our electric hot water cylinder. One other time this happened the local power helpline lady said ‘oh the men must be working somewhere and have your controlled power turned off’. I can vaguely recall power cuts when I was growing up and it is not a nice experience searching for candles.
  People, there is but one alternative that is extremely efficient and that is a modern nuclear plant. We have such a small population and one plant could keep us (and EVs) enjoying uninterrupted supply for years. It may take a popular uprising to get things moving, but watch this space.
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:12am
  - CJames
    
    Their are various terms and ways to do load management. The most common way was ripple control. This was where the local electricity suppliers could turn off things like hot water heating or storage heaters. It was a second meter. Gave you power at a cheaper rate. With mains pressure hot water and smaller tanks, they can’t do that any more so not much flexibility there. Commercial places can also do it by turning off things like their freezers or turning down AC when price is high. That also is limited. Next option is power cuts. That is going to become more and more the goto.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:34am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Cold water washing solves the problem
    
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    June 5, 2022 4:34pm
pdm

After watching all but about 30 minutes of the Super Rugby quarter finals yesterday and Friday night I came to the following conclusions.

Chiefs looked the best all round team and if the Crusaders don’t lift a few notches Chiefs could be hosting the final.

The Blues are no certainty to beat the Brumbies who showed a lot of commitment to beat the Hurricanes. The Blues got a lot of help from the Highlanders Red Card and their backs only shone in the last quarter when the Highlanders were knackered from the extra effort.
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June 5, 2022 9:43am
- redeye
  
  I stopped my Sky sports package. They increased the cost to $35 a month – they’re taking the piss. My brother watches it in Melbourne on Stan for $10 a month.
  I understand we have a smaller pop. here in NZ but we’re watching the exact same game with the same costs, even the same commentators.
  And I was getting sick of the same teams play each other over and over …
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:54am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Unfortunately, I think we may end up with a Crusaders v Brumbies final.
  
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  June 5, 2022 9:54am
- MCōs
  
  Plenty of teams have beaten the Blues this year, but only the Hurricanes scored more points, in the first round.
  The Brumbies are the best team, but that was the first time in a month they’ve scored more than the opposition.
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:26am
- Cinematic
  
  The Blues have the best first five in the world. They will dispatch the Brumbies with ease.
  
  The Crusaders are average. Chiefs to win.
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:27am
  - pdm
    
    BB did not look too flash in the first 20 minutes and ealy only came into the game when the Highlanders tired.
    
    Banks outplayed and out thought him formost of the first half.
    
    BB is perhaps the most devastating player I have seen off the bench at his peak – not a starting AB 10 for me.
    
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    June 5, 2022 2:39pm
- Prince
  
  I admire your durability. Watching rugby for me has become an exercise in frustration. The game is now a matter of which team will the ref favour today.
  The Chiefs were off side sat the ruck so often but not pinged. Particularly the ‘rush defence’.
  I’m finding League an increasingly attractive option.
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:40am
  - Opie
    
    Rugby is pretty much unwatchable. They play for penalties over tries and yiu get sent off for standing your ground and making a tackle.
    
    As our national sport it sums up the country nicely. Over complicated and expensive, run by people who have no idea what they are doing with a bunch of Maori words rammed into you for good measure.
    
    League now a much better watch, except when the warriors are playing…
    
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    June 5, 2022 1:23pm
  - pdm
    
    I tend to agree Prnce.
    
    First time I have watched most matches this year.
    
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    June 5, 2022 2:41pm
Maggie Pie

Driving home from Mass earlier and thought to myself OMG. Listening to Lydia Ko speak is sooo bloody boring!
Puts on that monotonous faux American accent and all she ever talks about is…. Golf 🙁

Get-a-life-girl!!
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June 5, 2022 10:11am
- pdm
  
  Maggie I think you need to cut her a bit of slack.
  
  Golf has been her life since about age 10 – being an educated guess as it could be earlier.
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    To be fair though pdm…I won the Eastern-Suburbs-Junior-Tennis-Trophy when I was 7. I haven’t let that dominate my life.
    
    Just saying.
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:36am
    - pdm
      
      Obviously you chose not to take `the pro’ route Maggy. lol.
      
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      June 5, 2022 2:42pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was earlier. About 5 or 6. I know her Father – customer of the company that I worked in.
    You are right, golf is her life, she loves it.
    
    9 1
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    June 5, 2022 11:43am
  - curry4me
    
    If she spent her early years in Korea, she probably went to a Hakwon. As in private English academy. Most of the native teachers come from North America. Her mum would have watched US programs on cable. So would she. As in The Simpsons, Spongebob, etc. Ergo, most Koreans hear English with an American accent 90% of the time.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:55am
    - david
      
      Many Koreans learn English by listening and watching AFKN (Armed Forces Korea Network) particularly childrens programmes and cartoons.
      
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      June 5, 2022 12:43pm
      - curry4me
        
        Yes they do. Its another way for them to learn it.
        
        2 1
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        June 5, 2022 7:21pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      She arrived in NZ as an infant and received her schooling here in NZ… but she’s been based in the USA since she was 16.
      
      12 1
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      June 5, 2022 1:46pm
      - curry4me
        
        Ah that explains Lydias American accent.
        
        1 1
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        June 5, 2022 7:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Our Thai friend who now lives in Alaska, speaks with an American accent. Just came from her schooling in Sukhumvit, Bangkok.
      
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      June 5, 2022 1:48pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why do you have to keep reminding us that you go to Mass every Sunday?
  That’s much more boring than Lydia Ko will ever be.
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:28am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I bet you can be a real nasty old bastard when you want to be Capt’n 🙁
    
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    June 5, 2022 10:39am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      That wasn’t nasty, but you do go on a bit about being a left-footer.
      
      21 4
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      June 5, 2022 10:51am
      - mogg
        
        When it comes to going on a bit, ‘let he who is without sin cast the first stone’.
        If everybody at Mass is like Maggie I will be going there myself, I like her style.
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:38am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Left footer, have not heard that term for many years.
        My Mother called my Grandfather a left footer
        
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        June 5, 2022 11:45am
  - iMP
    
    I like it that he goes to Mass, because it annoys Richard Dawkins. Who, as an atheist, spends ALL his time talking about religion. Which is proof that God has a sense of humour.
    
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    June 5, 2022 12:05pm
- MCōs
  
  She probably think exactly the same.
  Maybe she’d rather talk about stuff like climate change, gun violence, sexual harassment.
  Maybe she misses her friends back in NZ.
  Maybe she loathes those pointless interviews.
  
  I see there’s another 10yo girl won some golf tournament in NZ the other day.
  No bloody pressure.
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Maggie’s just jealous. Typical member of the Kiwi clobbering machine.
    I’d much rather her tell us which sins she chose to confess this week rather than what she heard on the radio.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:06am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      I’m pretty sure Maggie isn’t typical of anything.
      
      16 1
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      June 5, 2022 12:28pm
      - kowtow
        
        I think there’s a lotta folk here who need to get a sense of humour and stop taking everything so literally.
        
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        June 5, 2022 4:49pm
Yvette

“3 Waters”, “co-governance” and all that crap ‘muddying the water’ –
“We made that decision a couple of years ago, to shift our strategy from being oppositional to being in the tent early and not opposing from the sidelines, but to make sure that we were challenging, testing, pushing, critiquing, every step of the way” – Susan Freeman-Greene, chief executive Local Government New Zealand
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/06/local-government-group-admits-poor-communication-over-three-waters-strained-council-relations.html

PARTNERING COMMITMENT TO SUPPORT THREE WATERS SERVICE DELIVERY REFORM –
C. Since May 2020, the Crown and LGNZ have worked collaboratively to consider the interests of central and local government in relation to the Three Waters Reform Programme.
https://www.dia.govt.nz/diawebsite.nsf/Files/Three-waters-reform-programme/%24file/heads-of-agreement-partnering-commitment-to-support-three-waters-service-delivery-reform.pdf

For the Crown and LGNZ to have worked collaboratively since May 2020, “the Crown” must have spent time well before May preparing what they and LGNZ worked on, but did not mention any of it prior to the General Election held on Saturday 17 October 2020.

Newshub headline: Local Government group admits poor communication over Three Waters strained council relations
Local Government is probably right about the ” poor communication” – certainly before the last Election
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June 5, 2022 10:30am
Maggie Pie

We had a few friends over last night and the prospect of removing GST on food came up for discussion.
The consensus was…. it would be far too complicated to administer and a far simpler method needs to be found.

Anyway, I came up with the idea of dropping GST on Residential Rates.
Lets face it, that’s nothing more than a ‘tax-on-a-tax’ anyway.

A quick survey among those sitting at the bar, showed it would put between about $40 & $60 a week into most peoples pockets and it would apply to everybody across the board….both homeowners and renters alike.

I thought it sounded like a no-brainer.
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June 5, 2022 11:05am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I totally support that one Maggie.
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:39am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I forgive ya Cap. And sorry for being rude earlier.
    
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    June 5, 2022 11:50am
    - Biscuit
      
      No, no, no, Maggie,
      
      Forgiveness isn’t the Kiwiblog way!
      
      I expect handbags (Capatin) and stale Eucharists (you) at ten paces!
      
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      June 5, 2022 12:17pm
- Dave
  
  Since the GST component of a rate is 15/115, a reduction of $60 per week implies the weekly rate bill is 60*115/15 = $460 or nearly $24000 a year, if I’ve not miscalculated somewhere – always possible! Few homeowners pay those sort of rates.
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Depends where you live of course Dave…and lets not forget, everyone we know has at least two homes anyway.
    
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    June 5, 2022 1:41pm
    - kevn
      
      @Maggie… Everyone with two ‘homes’ (houses?) really only have one home, the other is always called ‘a rental’. Sometimes there are several ‘rentals’.
      
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      June 5, 2022 4:27pm
- mogg
  
  Tax-on-tax is right, I am pretty sure that with ACC and GST on petrol we have reached tax-on-tax-0n-tax. Labour accuse Supermarkets of profiteering when they are doing much worse themselves.
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:52am
- MCōs
  
  The gst component of my rate bill is about$7/wk
  
  What others ideas did you have?
  
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  June 5, 2022 3:46pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    So, $350 for the year. A bit like Grant’s bribe then.
    
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    June 5, 2022 4:39pm
mikenmildagain

Will Trevor Mallard get his knighthood in tomorrow’s honours list, or will he have to wait for the new year?
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June 5, 2022 11:08am
- I remember when
  
  Or will he just continue to be considered a ‘hood’ by many.
  
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  June 5, 2022 11:40am
  - kowtow
    
    He won’t want one before going to Dublin .
    Maybe later .
    
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    June 5, 2022 4:52pm
- Biscuit
  
  Hmmm, mike…
  
  I imagine the usual ‘worthies’ will get gonged:
  
  Sir Ashley Bloomfield, mayhaps?
  Our two Winner Olympic Games gold medallists?
  A musico I’ve not heard of
  An ‘artist’ ditto
  
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  June 5, 2022 12:21pm
  - david
    
    There will undoubtedly be a sprinkling of mokos
    
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    June 5, 2022 12:45pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    And DPF will run a post saying that the word ‘business’ did not appear in the list as often as it should…
    
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    June 5, 2022 12:46pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Fuck the arseholes who do the work to keep the lights on in this country eh?
      
      10 1
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      June 5, 2022 2:34pm
      - MCōs
        
        Up to you
        
        1 1
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        June 5, 2022 3:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    All for doing their jobs.
    49 years at the same firm, manufacturing, cut the steel and weld it – engineer.
    Will I get a gong?
    
    4 1
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    June 5, 2022 5:09pm
- MCōs
  
  We might be a republic by the end of the year.
  I would suggest Australia will lost to the realm by lunchtime after the Queen is buried.
  Us’ll be close behind.
  
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  June 5, 2022 3:27pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So you want a NZ Queen? We have one,
    You want a NZ President? We have one. POTSRONZ,
    President of the Socialist Republic of NZ
    
    2 2
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    June 5, 2022 5:12pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Instantly turning knighthoods into the equivalent of a piece of toilet paper!
  
  5 1
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  June 5, 2022 4:26pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Strange how Helen Clark’s push to do away with Knighthoods/damehoods lost traction when she departed the helm….
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sirs-dames-get-clarks-new-order-of-the-boot/Z2ZXIP6WYBCQSIUDXLLRZ47KVI/
    
    (and so many rushed back to claim their title).
    
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    June 5, 2022 5:04pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Not one of the pressing questions of our times, Mikey
  
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  June 5, 2022 4:40pm
Tasman devil

The best smoked fish pies in NZ are sold at Ginger Dynamite in Riwaka, near Motueka.
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June 5, 2022 11:14am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp13_8mmEH4

Mass Protests Erupt in China Over Covid Lockdowns.

Mass student protests erupt in China near a sensitive anniversary and in a very sensitive year for the Chinese Communist Party. Shanghai has re-opened, or…well…kinda, sorta re-opened. And the Chinese Communist Party knows what real democracy is, and it’s not that fake “rule by the people” democracy being practiced in the West. Watch this episode of China Uncensored for that and more of this week’s China news headlines. [17:08]
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June 5, 2022 11:28am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pelZeMS9vIg

And we thought Russia was up against the US.

Russia has been a bit naughty. There have been sanctions. However, the US, and Israel have been giving Russia spare parts for weapons such as drones. Israel hasn’t joined the anti-Russia chorus. American chips have been found in Russian weapons. Buying oil earlier on wouldn’t have hurt Putin either. Did this happen under Brandon’s nose? [4:47]
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June 5, 2022 11:28am
I remember when

Opinion Steve Maharey:
“An alien listening in to social media might conclude the PM ranked alongside the likes of Boris Johnson, Scott Morrison, Donald Trump or Viktor Orban. In other words, not a nice person.”
Perhaps, in Steve’s world, being considered right wing means you are not a nice person.
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June 5, 2022 11:39am
- BeaB
  
  And we all remember when Steve spoke up when John Key, fresh from another international triumph, was lambasted by the media for sone trivial domestic issue.
  Why do Jacinda’s besotted fan boys and girls expect the rest of us to stay adoringly silent?
  And why aren’t we allowed to say what a mess she looked with her scruffy hair and sloppy coat?
  
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  June 5, 2022 1:49pm
oldfella

Some Sunday chuckles from the US in Powerline’s weekly wrap of political humour, and bizarre headlines. 🙂
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/06/the-week-in-pictures-over-heard-edition.php
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June 5, 2022 11:50am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Thanks, please keep them coming!
  
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  June 5, 2022 8:08pm
oldfella

Someone should send this to Cuddles Coster. /s
Last July, a new law went into effect in Washington state that was described as “police reform.” House Bill 1054 made significant changes in how the police are allowed to do their jobs. Police unions had been protesting the measure, saying that it would negatively impact their ability to control crime, but the state’s Democrats cheered the bill as a way to bring more “equity” into the system. One of the changes put in place by the bill was a rule saying the police officers were no longer allowed to engage in high-speed chases except in very limited circumstances. In other words, if the cops see a driver doing something wrong and turn on their sirens and flashers but the motorist doesn’t pull over, there isn’t much they can do about it. To the great surprise of nobody with an IQ higher than tepid water, motorists have begun ignoring the police in increasing numbers and simply refusing to pull over.
https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2022/06/04/washington-state-drivers-dont-have-to-pull-over-for-the-cops-anymore-so-they-arent-n473948
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June 5, 2022 11:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It is already here
  
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  June 5, 2022 5:28pm
curry4me

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2022/06/04/homeland-security-admits-dominion-voting-systems-have-inherent-vulnerabilities-easily-manipulated-by-local-election-officials/

Homeland Security Admits Dominion Voting Systems Have Inherent Vulnerabilities Easily Manipulated by Local Election Officials.

Last week we highlighted how the U.S. intelligence community public relations firm, The Washington Post, was getting out ahead of an election security report. {GO DEEP} There was a blitz of media reporting with transparent timing in advance of the Dept of Homeland Security (DHS), Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA), releasing their findings of Dominion voting systems.
Late Friday the DHS report and advisory was released [SEE HERE]. Within the advisory CISA admitted there are major vulnerabilities within the Dominion electronic voting system. However, they also claim there is “no evidence that these vulnerabilities have been exploited in any elections,” and they base that on a very thin defense. [Oops, forgot the link earlier. Please remove the earlier one Mods.]
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June 5, 2022 11:57am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How many of the Dominion has Jaspinda ordered?
  They seem to work well until someone wants a recheck//
  Not sarc, it is true
  
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  June 5, 2022 5:34pm
iMP

Back to the whole transgender a-sex gender-fluid Love-in and the gender crossing into fe/male sports etc.

Question. If you self-identify as OTHER, which sport do you properly cross over to? (The greyhound at the greyhound racing?).
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June 5, 2022 12:13pm
- MCōs
  
  In my case it’s not an issue on a variety of fronts, not least of which is I would be no threat to anyone on any sporting arena these days.
  
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  June 5, 2022 3:19pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    How about a frame or two of snooker?
    Not a sport? Yes it is. Now and again I knock in 60+ breaks. My brother still has the occasional century!
    
    4 1
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    June 5, 2022 5:41pm
Maggie Pie

Things that make you go hmmm.

I had been told this in confidence….but thort it worth share it anyway.
A friend of my partner (who is very much in the know) was showing us information that the original Patent for the ‘Covid-Test-Kit’ is held by none other than…Richard A. Rothschild.

And even though it’s dated in 2020… it was actually filed 10/13/2015!

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/patent/US-2020279585-A1
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June 5, 2022 12:14pm
- mogg
  
  That’s why you should be in RIT Capital Partners.
  
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  June 5, 2022 12:33pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yes, not silly moggy.
    Funnily enuff my partner knew the Rothschilds when they lived on Waiheke. He used to source vehicles for Robert’s collection.
    
    They got chased out eventually by the ‘greenies’.
    Typical….why would you want people like them living here?
    Hmmm.
    
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    June 5, 2022 2:02pm
Byron

Hi, have been lurking but have listened to the Detail RNZ for far too long and have realised the extent of how unbalanced they are and how much the PIF is distorting good people.

The proponents despise the average person that pays their wages and mortgage.

I am a massive sports fan and only got into non sports news and radio because of the demise of Radio Sport. And I’m going back to SENZ because of the last two years of listening to radio without sport. Where was the PIF for a huge number of kiwi sport fans who are taxpayers?

Go the Sydney Swans, the Hurricanes and the Warriors!!!

But RNZ and Newstalk have become a staple in between because of no other options. I still like them both. But one has become deluded and the other has become decided.

From that I have discovered Kiwiblog, (and a few others) and one of the things I would say is please stop the racism and personal attacks. Stick to the policies and ignore the personalities.

I would like to stick with kiwiblog. Thank you for your time. nga mihi
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June 5, 2022 12:16pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Have you tried The Platform Byron? Martin Devlin is on air from 3pm to 6pm weekdays, and has done some fascinating extended interviews with a whole range of sporting people. He is not as time-limited as he was on commercial radio, and the result is excellent. The same applies with other hosts during the day, which leads to some very good broadcasting. Ani O’Brien, The Platform’s “first reserve” host is a natural to talk radio as well. You can download the app and listen from a device, or just use their web-based feed – https://theplatform.kiwi/live-on-air
  
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  June 5, 2022 12:22pm
  - Byron
    
    Thanks Tony,
    Will do. I did not know that the Platform was up and going yet. Had played Marty Devlin at Upper Hutt squash club at college level. This was many years ago but our team took the train from naenae station and got thrashed. Glad to hear he’s is healthy, sorted and busy.
    
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    June 5, 2022 1:02pm
Bridgenag

Well the bloke at bowls with the daughter in the posh apartment block near The Pullman said that they are up in arms scrambling to get police or community someone or noise control someone to take notice of the racket late at night on the Bankside carpark. Goes on for days. 111 no good….
Of course when police are underpaid, understaffed and depressed by the cuddling why would they bother. Shootings would take precedence I would imagine. Full of Cinyites ………….. Maybe they might now understand why we need law and order.
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June 5, 2022 1:04pm
Yvette

Ohio to introduce new law allowing teachers to carry guns after spate of US mass shootings
Ohio is set to enact a law that allows teachers and other staff to be armed with guns in schools once they have completed up to 24 hours of initial training.
Proponents hope armed teachers will reduce the frequency and deadliness of school shootings, which have become recurrent in the United States. The bill’s opponents, including teachers’ unions and the state’s main police officer union, say it will only make schools more dangerous for children.
The bill was finalized 10 days after a teenager with an AR-15-style rifle attacked a school in Uvalde, Texas. Nineteen ~~students~~ [children aged 7 – 10 years] and two teachers were killed in the massacre.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2022/06/ohio-to-introduce-new-law-allowing-teachers-to-carry-guns-after-spate-of-us-mass-shootings.html?ref=ves-vid4

• Again, like the recent but frequent shootings in Auckland, this is only a “spate”.
• Arming teachers is of course a solution directly defying the Einstein-credited advice, “We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.”
• It is like arming LynnMall Countdown check-out girls with carving knives.
• Are school teachers to carry Magnum hand guns (“24 hours of initial training” to manage the recoil), or AR-15 semi-automatic rifles to equal any opposition?
• What could go wrong? – future headline-in-waiting: 38 KINDEGARTEN CHILDREN KILLED IN CROSSFIRE BETWEEN CARE-GIVERS AND MENTALLY UPSET TEENAGER
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June 5, 2022 1:11pm
- DistantObserver
  
  The teachers with guns suggestion is indicative of the US going bat shit crazy.
  Teachers could not operate a VCR in my day, but sure give them guns, see how well that works out.
  
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  June 6, 2022 4:40am
Maggie Pie

Costs really HAVE gotten out of control since Labor became government.
Just had to shoot up to the dairy for a tube of toothpaste.
‘Sensodyne Sensitivity & Gum’….$14.99!!

No wonder bene’s can’t afford to clean their teeth anymore 🙁
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June 5, 2022 1:50pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggie, “shoot up” and “dairy” isn’t something you should put in the same sentence anymore.
  
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  June 5, 2022 2:50pm
  - nathie
    
    Mind you Maggie didn’t say she paid for the $14.99 toothpaste …. well if one reads between the lines “shoot up” and “dairy” perhaps! 😉
    
    Anyway if it features on Police 10-7, Maggie has an alibi, she was merely the “driver” and was wondering why her partner came running back with 10 boxes of them!
    
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    June 5, 2022 3:56pm
Maggie Pie

Just been watching a replay of the Queens 70th Jubilee Celebration.

Anyone else see the ‘Duke-of-Kent’ standing next to her on the balcony?
He’s Lizzie’s cousin. Honestly, the state of the guy!
Apparently he’s 10 years younger than her…looks at least 20 years older.
As my partner’s mum said, if I look like that in ten years time…have me put down.

LOL!!

https://youtu.be/XPiRBuAdkbc
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June 5, 2022 3:55pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  The cuzzie bro is 86. For most people it’s touch and go at that age.
  
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  June 5, 2022 4:30pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  He commanded the Scots Greys. He was a professional soldier
  
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  June 5, 2022 5:57pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    As my partner pointed out earlier….
    They said the same thing about Harry when he came back from Iraq …..even he was getting around the place with more medals than the ‘King-of-Scotland’
    
    LOL!!
    
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    June 5, 2022 7:32pm
- Scooter
  
  Like some of the comments, I thought Prince Philip had miraculously come back to celebrate with Liz, they do look alike him and Duke of Kent, but then there was alot of inbreeding going on.
  
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  June 5, 2022 10:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

virtualmark, A reply to your comment at 12.29pm.
“Steve, if you think the Democrats are a rational reason for hoarding guns and tinned food then your cholesterol reading is higher than your IQ.”
When a left leaning person (not an insult) runs out of comprehension and/or ideas, they do resort to insults, every time. That is when they have lost the debate.
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June 5, 2022 4:22pm
- virtualmark
  
  Steve, I’ll wager I’m more of a capitalist than you are.
  
  But you, and many of the commentators here, have lost your balance and perspective about Democrats, and socialism, and communism, and all the other -isms that are really just excuses for your prejudices and fears.
  
  If you genuinely think that the Democratic Party is a valid reason for an American citizen to buy semi-automatic weapons then you are, frankly, quite lost.
  
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  June 5, 2022 5:43pm
Maggie Pie

There’s one thing you can say about Alex….he’s fearless 😛

https://twitter.com/alexstein99/status/1533172955823452160
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June 5, 2022 4:49pm
Surely Knott

NZ Herald front page story, public person gets covid twice and it’s really bad and she almost called the ambulance. Therefore public person concludes wearing a mask is necessary for everyone even after you have covid. But there is one key fact the Herald omits. Her vax status. How many did she have and when. Why didn’t the vax protect her, from getting it repeatedly or from having severe disease. But the Herald chose to not tell us the vax status, but want us to wear a mask. Yeah no. Lets have some straight and honest discussions first.
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June 5, 2022 8:54pm

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