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August 21, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 August 2022

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Joe Strummer would have turned 70 today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eneRB5z1XM
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August 21, 2022 8:03am
- Stellaboxer
  
  God that makes me feel old. The Clash’s first album was the first record I bought 1977
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:31am
  - Rusty
    
    Talking about the 70’s punk/new wave era, I wonder how many people know that Johnny Rotten/Lyndon, ex-anarchist from the Sex Pistols is now a conservative person.
    
    He became an American citizen, is pro -nuclear family of a mum and dad and is pro- Donald Trump and also likes the Queen!
    
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    August 21, 2022 12:05pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No surprises there, as the Sex Pistols were always in it for the money, pretending to be punk.
      
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      August 21, 2022 4:27pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  This is an oldie but a goodie; Joe Strummer with the Pogues at the Town and Country Club, St Patrick’s Day 1988:
  
  https://youtu.be/IL9hDmoxkiA
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:53am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I saw The Pogues at the O2 Arena in London. Shane had to be held up by a pair of roadies while he sang blah bleh blah. After 20 mins, Joe Strummer took over the vocals.
    
    On that day you never would have thought that Shane would outlive Joe.
    
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    August 21, 2022 3:32pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Life is so short
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:01am
- plc
  
  Saw The Clash twice at the Wellington Town Hall in Feb 1982
  
  “White Man in Hammersmith Palais” has been my ringtone for the past 10 years
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:36am
- Swifty
  
  I loved that man.
  
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  August 21, 2022 11:06am
RockyJ

Jacinda Ardern says “cogovernance arrangements are not something to be feared”
Does she not realise that every day she is looking more and more ridiculous?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/jacinda-ardern-says-co-governance-is-key-to-upholding-treaty-of-waitangi-obligations.html
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August 21, 2022 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  ‘Meanwhile, the National Party leader said he wanted to work closely with iwi and that involved some devolution.’
  
  Oh really . Where’s “devolution” in the Treaty .
  Luxon is looking increasingly flakey on this issue.
  
  Good on Act for not being there ,and not making promises that sell our democracy down a feel good , virtue signal river.
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:40am
  - pdm
    
    Kowtow – he is not now known as TE REO Luxon without good reason.
    
    I say Party Vote ACT!!!
    
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    August 21, 2022 8:54am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Go snd read what Luxon said on Co Governance, he said they do not stand for co governance, party vote for act if you like, but don’t tell lies about the party who will be the government next year
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:22am
      - pdm
        
        Not a lie G – my personal opinion of Luxon. I am not yet convinced about him and just how woke he is.
        
        Rest assured though as long as National put up a decent candidate in Tukituki they will have my electorate vote.
        
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        August 21, 2022 11:22am
    - kowtow
      
      Oh definitely party vote Act .
      
      Devolution , now that’smthe first time I’ve heard that here . Is it the Nat’s idea of soft “co governance” or did he pick up the idea from his recent visit to the falling apart and now very divided ‘United Kingdom” .
      Either way it flies in the face of paul Goldsmith’s attempts to shore up our traditional view of democracy , or is the Swamp just playing us for chumps , again.
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:23am
      - Clownworld
        
        Act the party for free speech…except when it was about opposition to abortion clinics?…or when it was about protesting against mandates…or when it is bad for optics…the pragmatist party.
        
        For the record Act and National no longer stand for free thinkers and free speech. It makes it very difficult to know who to vote for?
        
        The least compromised , least worst party?
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:13pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      You’re opinion has nothing to do with what he stated that they are opposed to co governance, why do you Act supports twist what he says
      
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      August 21, 2022 12:02pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Don’t talk crap, read the article where NZF Mp Morgan apparently scolded Luxon, in the last paragraph Luxon says we do not agree with Co-governance, end of story, don’t worry about the other , listen to his main point, WE DONT STAND FOR CO GOVERNANCE
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:21am
  - RockyJ
    
    I disagree. Luxon is playing smart. He opposes Three Waters and the health “reforms”. He knows he has to take votes from Labour supporters.
    
    These are the reasonable people, the kind fools who cannot believe the government they voted for in the last election has an agenda to do them harm. They are wavering now.
    
    He does not want to take votes from Act.
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:25am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He said today the Nats do not support co governance, yet ACT supporters lie and say he does
      
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      August 21, 2022 11:13am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        John Key said that WFF was communism by stealth, leading people to think he’d get rid of it. Same with housing problems and of course he also appealed to “centrists” when he supported the Labour Government’s anti-smacking legislation.
        
        All good politics no doubt, to say – and then not do, but as a result I take no notice of what politicians say, let alone their most fanatical supporters.
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:08pm
      - kowtow
        
        What’s devolution and who mentioned it?
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:19pm
      - Observer of Life
        
        Key also stated (I believe in 2008) that National would get rid of Maori seats as they were no longer necessary. Our local National “gem” Bayly told me I was wrong in saying signing to the UNDRIP was a bad idea. In fact he scoffed. Hmm.. how did that all turn out G from DUD?
        
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        August 21, 2022 4:28pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    I am not sure when Te Reo Luxon will get the shocking message that no matter what he does no matter Maoris are not going to vote National.
    
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    August 21, 2022 11:48am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Are you sure of that, SCS? The Maori Party only get a tiny percentage of the Maori vote – the radicals. Labour get a chunk of the not-quite-so-radical Maori vote.
      
      But, there are plenty of conservative Maoris that won’t have a bar of either of those two. Call it the-not-proper-Maori vote.
      
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      August 21, 2022 3:36pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I realise most of your posts are satirical nonsense but you couldn’t be more wrong, and identity politics are stupid. There’s no such thing as “the Maori vote” just like there’s no such thing as “the Black vote” or the “Latino vote” in the US.
      
      A great many Maori are conservative in outlook and attitude, and have mad successful lives for themselves precisely because of those attributes and attitudes. They’ll vote for whoever the hell they like.
      
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      August 21, 2022 4:22pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    I would be more interested to understand what Luxon means by Devolution.
    
    I do feel that over the last few decades, the understanding and interpretation of the treaty has evolved beyond it’s mandate. If, by Devolution, Luxon refers to taking the ToW back to core principles, and defining all kiwis as one people, then I’m all for that.
    
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    August 21, 2022 12:32pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He has always said do not stand for separatist services for ownership
      
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      August 21, 2022 8:03pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  If anyone could find co governance mentioned in either version of the treaty I would be in total agreement with her.
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:54am
  - Tricati
    
    Let alone ‘partnership’ – rewriting the treat to suit a separatist agenda.
    Maybe if some of our so called journalists would read Yvette’s insightful posts on here, they would get a true understanding of what’s happening by stealth.
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:29am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      It’s a partnership of two peoples coming together, that is the only part of it that is a partnership, I have been to Waitangi twice and read the relatively small board of rules, no where does it say co-governance or the word Aeoteraroa is not mentioned, I stated this on FB one day, and Kelvin Davis gave me a frowny face, he didn’t not want to debate what I said, just a frowny face, he knew I was correct but frowned anyway
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:38am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        He’s almost functionally illiterate, which would explain his using images.
        
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        August 21, 2022 4:22pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    oh dear.
    Suggest you read Article two. while the word co-governance is not explicitly mention.
    Article two is the hook that starts the argument for co-governance
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:50am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      It does not mention co governance period, reading into things is the problem of the Marxist left
      
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      August 21, 2022 11:15am
    - JJ56
      
      The First
      The chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs who have not joined that Confederation give absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the complete government over their land.
      
      The Second
      The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent.
      
      The Third
      For this agreed arrangement therefore concerning the government of the Queen, the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England.
      
      So Article 1 cedes governance to the Crown, 2 asserts the tribes’ ownership rights in their land etc and treasures and the right to sell them, and 3 makes all NZders subject to the same rights and duties as English citizens.
      
      Hard to see cogoverance in that, but definite rights to manage what they own.
      
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      August 21, 2022 7:20pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Stellaboxer – Don’t punch me for saying this. Sheeple expect Cindy to rewrite the treaty…..
    
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    August 21, 2022 11:49am
- emmess
  
  “cogovernance arrangements are not something to be feared”
  
  Fascism with a smiling face
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:10am
- Swifty
  
  I don’t fear co-governance.
  
  I just think it wrong, and for many very good and sound reasons.
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:21am
  - emmess
    
    I do fear it
    I can’t even imagine the depths that this country would descend.
    Prime Minister Willy Jackson, just for starts.
    
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    August 21, 2022 12:10pm
  - Jim
    
    Swiftly, no doubt Labour’s shill media will accuse people of such attitudes as racist. The dishonesty of this particular government is beyond comparison.
    
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    August 21, 2022 1:35pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  She reads the polls.
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:22am
  - PeeJay
    
    If so, then that would be yer another thing she’s bloody useless at.
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:50am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I don’t think she reads anything.
    
    She merely repeats what she has been told to say.
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:54am
    - kowtow
      
      Haha .
      
      Ther Gnats could use that imagery of Jackson prompting her on the specific articles of the treaty when she was asked if she knew them and she didn’t.
      
      This from the woman who’s just said ;
      
      “she was most proud of introducing the compulsory teaching of New Zealand history in schools and the new Matariki public holiday.’
      
      Where did that ending child poverty or even an aspiration for better education “outcomes” go.
      
      Labour ; we’ll force you to listen to ‘history’ lessons , but you’ll leave school illiterate and unemployable . And she’s still favourite for PM. FFS.
      
      I despair.
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:33am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Mataiki holiday was a super hit with the sheeple and now nobody can reverse it. Labour is a winner in every sense.
        
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        August 21, 2022 11:51am
    - Swifty
      
      I agree.
      
      It’s the same play as those who criticise Islam being labelled ‘Islamophobic’, as though there is something wrong with them – literally that they have fears and that those fears are irrational.
      
      Listening to Ardern et al I’m sure we’ll soon start being told we’re ‘co-governancephobic’ – that we have an irrational phobia.
      
      Classic gaslighting.
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:49am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        They won’t say co-governancephobic, they’ll continue to label everyone who calls out the nonsense “raaacist”.
        
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        August 21, 2022 4:24pm
    - RockyJ
      
      As the good Dr Sharma revealed she sure doesn’t read any Labour caucus information.
      
      That’s because to avoid the OIA they don’t write any.
      
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      August 21, 2022 12:25pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  IMHO democracy is under threat like it has never been before. Labour/Greens/Maori Party are anti-democracy, National has a tenuous grasp of the principles. Only ACT espouses true democratic principles.
  Once democracy is taken from the citizens only revolution and bloody revolution at that will restore it.
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:28am
  - Clownworld
    
    Only Act? Democratic principles? Seymour is principled ..if the optics are good? If the principles are political pragmatism?
    
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    August 21, 2022 1:17pm
- Jim
  
  Yep globalists like Ardern will keep on undermining functional democracy whilst disrespecting the human sacrifice of our forefathers (of all ethnicities).
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:55am
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  Jacinda Ardern said co-governance/He puapua was not government policy.
  
  There hasn’t been a mandate, referendum, national debate or notified decision on making it the basis of this Government’s legislative programme.
  
  But now she is talking as if co-governance is official policy.
  
  Take National-promote this line of co-governance/devolution at your peril.
  
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  August 21, 2022 11:37am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  There they go again, trying to control the narrative by suggesting that people are ‘fearful’ of co-governance.
  It’s not about fear – it’s more that we know democracy is the best of a bad bunch, and race-based control is _way_ down the list of great ways to govern.
  
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  August 21, 2022 11:40am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Rocky, our PM is an intellectual pygmy. She doesn’t realise that NZer’s do not fear co-governance arrangements, rather, we REJECT THE PREMISE of co-governance arrangements.
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:23pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Graham Adams reviews the “Fire and Fury” documentary:

Perhaps if Penfold had shown the clip of Jacinda Ardern telling voters in September 2020 — shortly before the election — that there would be no penalty for refusing a vaccine, alongside her infamous interview in which she grinned as she agreed that she intended to create two classes of citizens, the vaxxed and the unvaxxed, the whole protest might have been put into better perspective.

And, of course, Ardern also promised: “People who are vaccinated will still get Covid-19 — it just means that they won’t get sick and they won’t die.”

It’s not a statement that has aged well, given the numbers of the vaccinated who have ended up in hospital and the morgue.
:

It will also come as no surprise to many that the documentary was funded by the $55 million Public Interest Journalism Fund. Its evident bias will only further cement the widespread view that the mainstream media has been bought by the government — in this case by as much as $190,000 of taxpayers’ money.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/graham-adams-fire-and-fury-is-often-funny-unintentionally
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August 21, 2022 8:26am
- Philview
  
  Graham is a gifted journalist. Does anyone know his background, does he come from media training or a different occupation?
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    He’s been a magazine (acp & Bauer) subeditor and contributor writer for years… also had stint as a Journalist for NZ Herald.
    
    https://democracyproject.nz/2020/04/05/graham-adams-bauer-bows-out-along-with-turnardern/
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:24am
  - henrybryn
    
    how can you say that graham is a gifted journalist and then ask for his background. is he a gifted journalist because he has the same world view as your self?
    
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    August 21, 2022 12:50pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You don’t always need to know someone’s background to acknowledge the quality of their work.
      
      I can eat a meal at someone’s place and tell that I’ve been fed by a gifted chef, but I don’t need to know their background or cooking history.
      
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      August 21, 2022 2:15pm
    - Philview
      
      Over the last couple of years he has produced many well researched articles that appear in various websites outside of the MSM. The quality of article are of a higher standard than routinely written by many journalists in the NZ MSM. If I look at the quality of writing skill that goes into say a highbrow website like Unherd. There are a few NZ journalists who can match that depth of thought and Graham is one.
      
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      August 21, 2022 2:57pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      The “worldview” of a gifted journalist should be both irrelevant and invisible. That’s the problem with you lefties, you judge us by your own standards.
      
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      August 21, 2022 4:26pm
Warren

Haha Maori and their Leaders give Chris Luxon a lesson on Co Governance with the Prime Minister saying there is nothing to be scared of in Co Governance.
So we have a Leader lecturing National on partnerships when she can every bring herself to talk to one of her own MP’s because of bulling, something she practice’s dailly due to her arrogance and I am better than you attitude.
You have a Maori King that can’t even control his Family buts wants to lecture others on unity, and then you have the almighty Tuku Morgan talking about honesty and then to come together for the betterment of New Zealand when he used taxpayers money for silk underwear and other things whilst a MP with New Zealand First.
What do all these people know about maths or people because whether they like it or not this Three Waters and Co Governance will devide this Country
forever if 17% of Maori get to rule over 73% of the population it will create chaos
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August 21, 2022 8:27am
- Philview
  
  The TVNZ news piece intended as an attack on Chris Luxon actually gave him publicity on the National Party policy against Co-Governance. Jacinda says the country has nothing to fear but will not define it. Chris Luxon got up in front of a hostile audience and says he will reverse it. Well done Chris!
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:43am
  - kowtow
    
    Yeah , ok , but what’s this “devolution” he talks of.
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:34am
    - Dave
      
      The devol’s in the details.
      
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      August 21, 2022 11:38am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Clever!
        
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        August 21, 2022 4:27pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Glad someone else noticed
    
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    August 21, 2022 11:16am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Philview – he won’t get a single extra vote out of this. Clearly Cindy was a winner.
    
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    August 21, 2022 11:54am
- Yvette
  
  “… Three Waters and Co Governance will devide this Country forever if 17% of Maori get to rule over 73% of the population it will create chaos”
  
  Warren, you lost 10% somewhere.
  
  But also, if “co-governance” is a 50/50 deal, 17% rounded up to equal 50 is about 3 times.
  And 83% reduced down to 50 is about 0.6
  And 0.6 of a vote divided into 3 is 5.
  So a 50/50 deal would give Maori about 5 times the voting power of non-Maori.
  Which may be a little worry –
  and for some, a bridge to far.
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:16am
  - Nickc2
    
    for some, a bridge to far
    The bridge is closed indefinitely.
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:42am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      But Simon Bridge(s) is still open…
      
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      August 21, 2022 11:55am
      - Nickc2
        
        ….. and long may he remain so!
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:43pm
  - Thought Criminal
    
    It will add an additional layer of expensive, unresponsive bureaucracy that will hinder improvements to services for all New Zealanders.
    
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    August 21, 2022 6:27pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  100 minus 17 is actually 83, not 73.
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:37am
  - GT Build
    
    Not if you go to school now it can be anything you want it to be. It is the new way just like gender
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:47am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Did you read the part where Luxon said we do not stand for co governance
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:43am
kowtow

Media talking points .

Sharma a rogue was heavily touted when he first blew the whistle on how the Labour party machine at parliament is so co ercive and bullying.

But their theme is increasingly ; where’s the evidence .

Hang on a mo . For the past few years the Media Pardy have insisted that the victim must always be believed , evidence not required .

Or was that just more lies and hypocrisy from the Media Pardy.
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August 21, 2022 8:34am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  A lot of people probably consider Sharma is doing a Jamie Lee Ross. If he was unable to sort things out from the inside he’s got no chance by standing on a cliff. He’s had his 2 minutes and there are not even any juicy bits, Who cares?
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:19am
  - pdm
    
    BM – Sharma looks a hell of a lot more credible than Ross.
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:25am
    - Don Beckett
      
      And Ardern.
      
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      August 21, 2022 9:37am
      - Nickc2
        
        and her Whips!
        
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        August 21, 2022 9:43am
      - namron
        
        and YOU, Brian!
        
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        August 21, 2022 10:33am
    - curry4me
      
      Dr Sharma is highly credible. I’d buy a used car off him sight unseen. Jacinda, not so much.
      
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      August 21, 2022 1:03pm
      - Ross Campbell
        
        Well the good news is you might get the chance to buy that car from Sharma as he will be looking for a new job soon.
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:59pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Cindy provided the “juicy bits”. A clandestine caucus meeting excluding the whistle-blower where they could speak freely without any scrutiny. Denials that it occurred. Decisions effectively made at that caucus then denials about predetermined outcomes.
    If that’s not enough for you, how about the circumvention of the law re OIA? From what Cindy promised would be the most open and transparent government ever. It’s hard to imagine a bigger policy failure than Kiwibuild, but the open government promise might be the biggest and most brazen lie ever told in NZ politics.
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:55am
  - yossarian
    
    Well Neale Jones has gone very quiet after being outed as running OIA diversion clinics for the Labour Party.
    
    If Sharma was lying you’d think that Neale would have a case for sueing Dr Sharma for slander?
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:25am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He tried to say he spoke at the meeting but OIA was nothing to do with it, he tried to second guess Dharma, snd now he has gone quiet
      
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      August 21, 2022 11:19am
    - curry4me
      
      If.
      
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      August 21, 2022 1:04pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Sharma is going to drop the bomb, if he has evidence of OIA avoidance, and he said today he has evidence, when the PM tells Boshier that nothing to see here, then if he drops evidence, she will be gone
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:47am
curry4me

https://www.thedailyexaminer.co.nz/tokelau-unsettled/

Tokelau Unsettled.
Typical of the world today, it is often not possible to bring you the news because of what is not being said, or what is studiously being avoided
Tokelau is a different set of circumstances to NZ but comparisons can easily be drawn with the same ugly situation in New Zealand and their respective covid responses.
This Tokelau turmoil, according to reports from the Atolls, came to a grinding halt on Wednesday last week when the General Fono (like our parliament) tried to pass a government rule relating to covid mandates.
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August 21, 2022 8:36am
- Westie Bob
  
  And where was Jacinda’s Dad when this happened?
  
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  August 22, 2022 12:15am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3N1hrEKfPU
DeSantos Arrests 20 People for Electoral Fraud.

Wot! Electoral fraud! But, but, but CNN told me it was the ‘most secure election in history’. This must be a ‘conspiracy theory’ //sarc
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August 21, 2022 8:37am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Appears to just be serious criminals who are disenfranchised by law but chose to vote anyway. Not larger scale electoral fraudsters
  
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  August 21, 2022 11:53am
Yvette

“Co-governance” bridge. already
The prime minister says co-governance arrangements are not something to be feared, and described them as key to upholding Treaty of Waitangi obligations.
Jacinda Ardern led the leaders of all political parties except ACT onto the Māori Kingi Movement’s Turangawaewae marae in Waikato this morning. [yesterday] [1]

■ Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern confirms public consultation on Māori co-governance will happen in 2022 [2]

Act is now calling for a public referendum on the broad concept of shared decision-making, while the government is pushing forward with a number of shared programmes. They include a new Māori Health Authority, a shared model for three waters governance and more consultations on implementing the Undrip document that Jackson helped write. Cabinet is expected to weigh feedback later this month on how to implement a work programme for co-governance. [3]

So where is the “conversation” on “co-governance”?
Has Willie Jackson, following his six months conversations with targeted Maori elite, yet watered-down their response to present a paper to Cabinet before the Prime Minister makes speeches backing what is yet undefined?

And –
Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, ending right to abortion upheld for decades [4]
The vast coverage of this issue seemed to centre on “the ending of abortion as a right”, not so much on the point that “it was not mentioned in the Constitution”.
Just as “co-governance” is not mentioned in the Treaty of Waitangi.

Using a bridge as an analogy for partnership, Ardern said it was up to political leaders to take people along.
“It is key that as leaders we demonstrate what it is to finally – as Māori have always done – cross over the bridge too.
“That means that we need to stop telling people that the bridge is on fire, crossing that bridge is not something to fear, it is something to embrace. But for that, there is work to do.” [1]
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says ‘the mahi is not done’ in Waitangi Day speech

With this Ardern non-delivery Government there is always more fucking work to do.

And without a simple definition of “co-governance”, Ardern’s premeditated bridge seems a “bridge to far” – with or without a pedestrian / cycle lane
_____________
[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/08/jacinda-ardern-says-co-governance-is-key-to-upholding-treaty-of-waitangi-obligations.html
[2] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-confirms-public-consultation-on-m-ori-co-governance-will-happen-in-2022.html
[3] https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/01-04-2022/the-future-of-co-governance
[4] Alito’s 78-page opinion, which has a 30-page appendix, seemingly leaves no authority uncited as support for the proposition that there is no inherent right to privacy or personal autonomy in various provisions of the Constitution — and similarly, no evidence that peoples’ reliance on the court’s abortion precedents over the past half century should matter.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/24/1102305878/supreme-court-abortion-roe-v-wade-decision-overturn
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August 21, 2022 8:41am
- RockyJ
  
  I also look forward to the promised public consultation. Before it begins I would expect, in good faith, to receive a report on what agreement was reached from the prior consultation with Maori that is supposed to have happened.
  
  I doubt we will ever see it. My bet that the radicals took control and that the agenda would be too outrageous for even the dumb cluck Ardern to put in front of the public.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:37pm
iMP

The Left demand the new US Supreme Court judge must be a woman…and then insist there is no such thing as a woman.

This is why I’m a conservative and have nightmares about “being Progressive” because in the end, they get their hands on the levers of power.
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August 21, 2022 8:43am
- Philview
  
  Unfortunately in New Zealand extreme progressives are in control. Hence the bizarre teaching resources now being introduced to 12 year olds on gender etc
  
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  August 21, 2022 8:48am
surfing

Good fight in tauranga because the council ignored public consultation…

“A $4500 native titoki tree planted in a controversial location in a Pāpāmoa reserve has been targeted by vandalism, the Tauranga City Council says.”

Council are surprised…
“Tauranga City Council’s manager of parks and recreation Warren Aitken said the damage was “disappointing and hard to fathom”.

Resident is not surprised…
“Noel Hall, a member of the Friends of Palm Beach Reserve group that has protested against the plantings for years, told the Bay of Plenty Times Weekend it did not surprise him to hear about the vandalism.”

The council are shown to be bullying idiots again, the iwi are greedy little money grubbers, forcing their wishes against the people who actually live in the area. I wonder if the iwi helped with the plantings?
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August 21, 2022 8:51am
- Matt Long
  
  A $4500 titoki tree?
  Is it gilded perhaps? The wonderful world of council where ratepayer money falls from the sky to be flung around like fertiliser.
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:07am
  - Paulus
    
    A Maori Blessed tree.
    Plus Koha !
    
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    August 21, 2022 1:08pm
- Manu-Rau
  
  This is good – very good. People starting to fight back.
  
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  August 21, 2022 1:32pm
iMP

If “co-governance” goes ahead (“nothing to see here, or fear -Jacinda) watch for the inevitable rise of an Asian voice in A T Rower. There are as many Asians living in Nz as there are Maori, and in my large city, they are the second largest ethnic group behind non-Maori aka “ Pakeha” (not really an ethnic group as such, but whiteys all get grouped together as a race for some reason in many stats).

Asian council seats
Asian schools
Asian parliamentary seats

They have as much right based on their human rights as Maori. Why does first-arrival give you absolute ascendency? Do Americans own the moon?

Hello racially divided Utopia. It is a slide in to division and despair because humanity is not just culture or melatonin.
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August 21, 2022 8:51am
- Nickc2
  
  Contrary to popular opinion, Maori were not the first inhabitants of NZ and as such deserve nothing more than any other NZer.
  I can’t see Tuku Morgan preaching that fact from the grounds of the Turangawaewae Marae eh? There are no taxpayer handouts for telling the truth eh Tuku?
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:09am
  - Tom Barker
    
    “Maori were not the first inhabitants of New Zealand – what an absurd assertion. Do you have any evidence for it, since no archaeologists do?
    
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    August 21, 2022 9:24am
    - marleybob
      
      Maori’s own oral history says the land was already inhabited when they arrived.
      
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      August 21, 2022 9:48am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        I’ll take physical evidence over oral traditions and fairy stories anyday.
        
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        August 21, 2022 11:56am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        inhabited with what?
        
        The goddess of fire?
        
        I would not trust anything about ‘oral’ history stretching back 800 years.
        
        I don’t know anything about the Chatham Islands.
        
        As far as the North Island and South Island … I thought that the evidence was clear that Maori were the first humans to occupy these islands. Is there authoritative evidence for something else?
        
        Anyway at the end of the day it is not a helpful debate. Maori are not entitled to superior citizenship because they were ‘here first’. I am just as much a New Zealander as any Maori citizen. My passport is evidence. AFAIK Maori citizens carry exactly the same passport.
        
        OK … The Treaty… yes I have read it carefully. It doesn’t say anything about partnerships or cogovernance. It confers on Maori all the rights of British subjects and protection by the Crown – translated to mow that means the rights of citizenship. It is a simple document.
        
        How the hell did we get in this mess?
        
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        August 21, 2022 12:22pm
      - RockyJ
        
        Oral history is now history, didn’t you know? Like Maori discovered Antarctica.
        
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        August 21, 2022 12:39pm
      - Nickc2
        
        UrbanNeocolonialist @ 11:56AM
        My Granny tells better stories than yours eh?
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:47pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Are you denying the existence of Moriori?
      https://e-tangata.co.nz/reflections/moriori-still-setting-the-record-straight/
      A Moriori leader Maui Solomon quote:
      We are not another Māori tribe. We are Moriori, the indigenous peoples of Rēkohu and Rangihaute (Pitt Island), with our own unique language
      
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      August 21, 2022 9:57am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        This doesn’t make Moriori the first settlers of New Zealand, rather it makes them the first settlers of the Chathams, about 100 to 200 years after the initial settlement of New Zealand.
        
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        August 21, 2022 11:37am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        One of the interesting aspects of Maori settlement is the time it takes culture and language to diverge from the origin, when there is total isolation.
        
        When Tasman arrived Maori still had double hulled canoes, but 130 years later when Cook arrived they didn’t. Cook’s guest from Tahiti, Tupia could easily communicate with Maori.
        
        The culture and language divergence stacks up quite well with the archeological evidence, with the first settlement around 1300, which is about 350 years before Tasman.
        
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        August 21, 2022 12:31pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        And the known evidence for extinction of NZ megafauna ill adapted to human predation. If there had been humans here before Maori they would have wiped out the Moa in exactly the same way the Maori did, but Moa did not go extinct until 5-600 years back.
        
        Around the world there were major megafauna extinctions coinciding with arrival of humans everywhere they went. Dodos and Wrangel island Mammoths, Great Auks and Stellers Sea Cows are other examples.
        
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        August 21, 2022 2:24pm
      - Jack5
        
        Wayne Mapp says Maori had double-hull canoes when Tasman visited these islands.
        
        This isn’t a confusion with Tasman drawings of double-hull canoes at Tonga, is it?
        
        https://teara.govt.nz/en/artwork/2347/double-hulled-canoes-tonga
        
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        August 21, 2022 2:27pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @ Wayne Mapp; @ Jack5
        
        Although double-hulled ocean voyaging canoes may have disappeared from NZ by 1769, double-hulled canoes were in use :
        
        – For war parties
        Spöring sketched one as it came out to the Endeavour
        
        https://nzhistory.govt.nz/media/photo/sketch-double-hulled-waka
        
        – for shore fishing in the 1820s when John Boultbee sketched one.
        
        https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22782017?search%5Bpath%5D=items
        
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        August 21, 2022 4:04pm
    - Rocky Jnr
      
      You could watch these, and a few more on you tube
      
      https://youtu.be/PBFpGayPATs
      
      https://youtu.be/g15ROUH3gAQ
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:15am
    - Cassandra
      
      See King’s history – Moahunters. Polynesian but not Maori.
      
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      August 21, 2022 10:56am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Moahunters are Maori, probably active within the first hundred years of the initial arrival. After that the Moa are gone, hunted to extinction.
        
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        August 21, 2022 11:40am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @ Cassandra
        
        You’re confusing terminology describing the culture of the first settlers with their origins.
        
        The first folk to arrive in NZ were the direct ancestors of Maori.
        
        The first folks here arrived with a culture which had developed in tropical East Polynesia over a period of 1000 years or so…. Some anthropologists don’t label these people as Maori as such..as around 1300-1450 or so, they weren’t practising “classical Maori ” culture as such.
        
        Archaeologists recognize this earliest phase of human culture in NZ as the moa-hunter period…
        
        As time rolled on, the descendants of the first settlers (moa hunters) adapted to the temperate – cool temperate climate of NZ and developed a culture slightly distinct from that of their tropical Polynesian ancestors…(worked greenstone; used flax; developed pa -fortified villages ).
        
        So basically, somewhere between 1300 and 1500, moa-hunting culture transforms into Maori culture…. but the “race” of people remains the same.
        
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        August 21, 2022 1:47pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He might sell his expensive undies
    
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    August 21, 2022 10:49am
- Paulus
  
  But see what can happen when two men of Indian ethnicity clash !
  Remember Ardern’s Chief of Staff, Raj Nahna is a superior Indian to Dr Sharma, who is a lowly Labour MP.
  As her COS he has great power too !
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:53am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t think that will happen…
  
  There is no “Asian” community. Think Taiwanese professionals vs Indian students working in petrol stations.
  
  Diverse political views.
  
  Not interested. At least for Chinese. They want to avoid anything to do with the government.
  
  If cogovernance wrecks things, Chinese who can will shift to another country. They are not going to try to fix things by seeking elected office. Never going to happen.
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:54am
  - graham
    
    Not just Chinese. I suspect that, as you say Benedict, if cogovernance wrecks things there will be a considerable number of people packing up their things and leaving. They won’t make a big song and dance, but the smart people, the aspirational, the motivated, the movers and shakers – they will all just quietly leave.
    
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    August 21, 2022 2:19pm
Yvette

Whangārei facing $25m water income loss as Marsden Point oil refining ends
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/462654/whangarei-facing-25m-water-income-loss-as-marsden-point-oil-refining-ends

Three waters: Auckland could emerge as new consumer of Marsden Point water
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/463005/three-waters-auckland-could-emerge-as-new-consumer-of-marsden-point-water

Marsden Point Pipes Being Filled With Concrete – Blatant Economic Treason
https://business.scoop.co.nz/2022/03/22/marsden-point-pipes-being-filled-with-concrete-blatant-economic-treason/

Which pipes are being filled with woncrete – and why?
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August 21, 2022 8:56am
- Exclamation Mark
  
  A mate was telling me about this a couple of weeks ago.
  
  The oil is (or was…) pumped from tankers out at sea to the refinery via undersea pipes (Marsden point is too shallow for tankers). It is these pipes that are being filled with concrete.
  
  Apparently this is being done to yhrough the Greens a bone and make it look like a win for the environment, but it was inevitable anyway because with the refinery being decommissioned it would cost too much to maintain the pipes (who would pay for it?) So they are filling them to prevent any environmental problems when the unmaintained pipes start leaking.
  
  Or so the story goes. Winston is having a crack at getting some publicity for this but the horse bolted when the decision was made to shut the refinery down, a bigger stink should have been kicked up then.
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:49am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Marsden Point is deep enough for rankers and they did not need an off shore bouy to discharge
    
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    August 21, 2022 11:01am
    - Jack5
      
      Marsden Point is one of the better natural deep-water ports in the country – that’s why the refinery was built there. It used two tanker jetties.
      
      Big “Suezmax” tankers had to come in only 90 per cent loaded because of the harbour entrance, but this was dredged.
      
      One of the seafarers among Kiwiblog’s followers may tell us the biggest tankers that berthed at Marsden Point, and whether such big tankers are now bringing in refined products to make use of Marden Point’s storage.
      
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      August 21, 2022 1:50pm
      - Jack5
        
        Could the pipes Exclamation Mark mentions be the pipeline from Marsden Point to Auckland to deliver petrol?
        
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        August 21, 2022 2:10pm
      - Exclamation Mark
        
        You are probably right, either my mate put me crook, or I misunderstood him. Jack5 (below) is probably also right.
        
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        August 21, 2022 4:44pm
slightlyrighty

Just an observation.

Dr Sharma seems open, honest, earnest, perhaps naive, ethical and very much against percieved injustice.

and in the eyes of senior Labour officials, this makes him a Bad MP?

Kind of begs the question, what are the characteristics of a good Labour MP?
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August 21, 2022 9:08am
- emmess
  
  what are the characteristics of a good Labour MP?
  
  baaaaa
  
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  August 21, 2022 9:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They don’t tell lies??
    
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    August 21, 2022 11:02am
    - mandk
      
      I guess it depends from what perspective you are judging it.
      
      We’re talking about Labour MPs here, so maybe the answer is ‘does tell lies’.
      
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      August 21, 2022 1:40pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Oh Boy. I hope you don’t live next to any.
        
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        August 21, 2022 5:08pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  slightlyrighty – Dr Sharma gone by lunch time on Tuesday. I get a feeling he will trigger a byelection and stand as an independent there. Te Reo Luxon should say they won’t contest the election and support Dr Sharma as an independent. That will be great fun.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:05pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    The Government losing a seat will be interesting, but which would be worse? Losing to National or Losing to an independant?
    
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    August 21, 2022 1:42pm
Tony Stuart

From Sean Plunket on Twitter:

Sean Plunket @SeanPlunket

If @NZStuff campaigned to have Chantelle Baker banned from Facebook that is very concerning. I think we need a clear statement from @NZStuff about this.

https://twitter.com/SeanPlunket/status/1561092141086314496

Sean makes a very valid point here. We’ve seen Stuff this week trying to influence local body elections; what next? Will they try to have all National Party or Act social media pages cancelled? Will anyone opposing the current government become a target?

It’s the thin end of a very dangerous wedge.
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August 21, 2022 9:13am
- Gravelroad
  
  Yes, this is a big over-reach by media employees whose pay is being subsidised by the Government.
  And it seems to be going largely unchallenged.
  Mr Luxon and Mr Seymour might like to think about the possible impacts of this on their election campaign planning for next year.
  Your candidates may well be cancelled…………
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  We’ve moved well beyond the thin edge of the wedge.
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:49am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Tony Stuart – You have to give it to Stuffed. They work so sincerely for their share of the $55M bribe they received. That loyalty deserves a beer.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:11pm
- Ross Campbell
  
  That’s some a pretty long bow you have there Tony.
  Somehow you come up with the idea they might try to cancel National and Act because of Chantelle Baker as if their is even the most the remotest similarity.
  Probably the best way to avoid this fate if you are worried is advise them to not spout the kind of nonsense she does then all should be good or is that why you are concerned in the first place?.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:34pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Ross. The idea of a journalism organisation openly and actively working for the ruling party and actively campaigning against the opposition in a western democracy would be unthinkable.
    
    except it’s already happened.
    
    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/goldstein-media-union-wont-stop-attacking-andrew-scheer
    
    Unifor, the union representing 12000 media workers, announced that it will openly fight to stop the Conservative Candidate in Canada from being elected.
    
    The Canadian Heritage Minister then appointed a Unifor official to a panel to manage a $600 million dollar Media Support Fund in Canada (Sounds familiar??)
    
    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as-it-happens-thursday-edition-1.5146761/heritage-minister-defends-putting-anti-conservative-union-on-600m-journalism-fund-panel-1.5148429
    
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    August 21, 2022 1:56pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Free speech Ross. That’s it.
    
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    August 21, 2022 3:44pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  The take down of Chantelle Baker’s face book page is triggering my anger in a way that it hasn’t been triggered before. This is not the country that members of my family (and probably yours too), fought and died for during two world wars. Neither is it the country that my forebears built and created with great personal sacrifice over the last two centuries. The disdain I feel towards this govt and those that dare stiffle free speech, leaves me seething. How do reasonable and responsible New Zealanders address this significant afront to free speech and democracy.??
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:43pm
  - Ross Campbell
    
    My relatives did not go to war to defend false hearted people like Chantelle Baker.
    She is not deserving of pity.
    Your rage is symptomatic of many on here who seem to get wound up about very trivial matters, in this case somebody else’s Facebook.
    
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    August 21, 2022 1:51pm
    - mudrunner
      
      Mine did
      
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      August 21, 2022 2:39pm
    - Colville
      
      Ross, you (or Stuffed) dont get to choose who deserves freedom of speech.
      
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      August 21, 2022 3:57pm
    - JJ56
      
      Ross I fear you sound false hearted to me, and I shall, without pity, seek to have you banned from expressing these views.
      
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      August 21, 2022 7:37pm
  - quarterpack
    
    Paul…to answer your question” how do reasonable and responsible New Zealanders address this significant afront to free speech and democracy.??
    You form a political party, stand for the next election and get into power. However the chances of cobbling together a cohesive movement from the 5% of religious wingnuts ner do wells and riff raff that feel the way you do isn’t great.
    
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    August 21, 2022 2:33pm
Yvette

“co-governance” and Jacinda’s bridge
The chair of Te Arataura and former New Zealand First MP Tukoroirangi Morgan called the Three Waters reforms “a fantastic opportunity for Māori to participate at the highest level”.
While Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern told the crowd “these concepts are not new, and these concepts are not to be feared”

Jacinda’s “co-governance” reference to the concept (without defining it) is the Maori Health Authority and Waikato River governance, but Tuku has just burnt that bridge for her …

video [1:43 in] Narrator – The Prime Minister wasn’t given a free ride, asked to do more over the Waikato River.
Tukoroirangi Morgan – Return the river back to the King

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/08/21/luxon-given-co-governance-lesson-at-turangawaewae/

And …
Tuku Morgan (Waikato Tainui), is a member of the Three Waters working group who in March dismissed claims that Māori would own the country’s water infrastructure under the reforms.
“There is a view being promoted by some of the councillors around the country that this is a Māori grab for power, that we are interested in owning these water assets,” he told 1News.
“It’s absolute nonsense. We have always said, that we’re not interested in owning the water assets. What we’re interested in is the proprietor rights over water, and that is a discussion to be had with the Crown, not with councils.”
https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/04/29/iwi-involvement-aims-to-further-safeguard-water-assets-robertson/

There is no power in pipes – they are only provision, maintenance, expenditure and headache.
Power is in what is in the pipes.
And this surely turns Jacinda’s latest bridge analogy into a toll bridge
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August 21, 2022 9:47am
vant

Why would anyone with half a brain believe a word Ardern says? (Evidence: stuff video “Ardern talks to media after Sharma suspension”.) She sounds so dishonest and fake.

Does anyone believe McAnulty’s words “I’m not one for raising my voice, if anything if I get wound up I go quieter”? By the way he should be invited to “7 Days”, he’s very good at not giving a yes/no answer.

Why would someone who seems to have so much integrity like Sharma be so naïve and run for Labour?
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August 21, 2022 9:51am
- mogg
  
  Time to stop the pretence and look past Labour spin.
  Sean Plunket has said there is bullying in Parliament
  and the Labour Praty, Richard Prebble agrees that is how Parliament works. Even long time lefty observer of all things politics Chris Trotter has said that Labour bullies new MP’s. Dr Sharma is is claiming that he is bullied, who do we belive Pinocchio Ardern
  or well known and trusted commentators.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:25pm
Aunty

I thought this was a very pragmatic way for dealing with recalcitrant furniture shoppers in China who forget that the displays in the store are not an invitation to set up home for the day.

https://twitter.com/SleeplessBKK/status/1557248396083113984

[Twitter Login required. mod]
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August 21, 2022 9:55am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Many chinese have a siesta at lunchtime.
  
  Polyphasic sleep is actually more efficient – you need less total hours of sleep if you have a siesta. Optimum is actually 4-8 short naps a day, which allows a lot/most of people to get down to 2 hours sleep a day total once you get into the swing of things.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:09pm
  - [email protected]
    
    Please don’t let employers know that they can get 22 hours of work a day from their employees.
    
    7 0
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    August 21, 2022 2:33pm
    - Colville
      
      But you might want to let employees know they can have 10 hours of quality life outside of he 11 hours required for work + commute.
      
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      August 21, 2022 3:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sounds familiar?

Ancient Wisdom says that when you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.
However, in some organisations often many other
strategies are tried, including the following:

1) Changing riders

2) Buying a stronger whip

3) Falling back on: “This is the way we’ve
always ridden”

4) Appointing a committee to study the
horse

5) Arranging a visit to other sites to see
how they ride dead horses

6) Increasing the standards for riding
dead horses

7) Appointing a group to revive the dead
horse

8) Create a training session to improve
riding skills

9) Comparing the state of dead horses in
today’s environment

10) Changing the requirements so that the horse
no longer meets the criterion of the dead

11) Hiring an external
consultant to show how a dead horse can be
ridden

12) Harnessing several dead horses together to
increase speed

13) Increasing funding
to improve the horse’s performance

14) Declaring that no horse is too dead to beat

15) Doing a study to see if outsourcing will reduce
the cost of riding a dead horse

16) Buying a computer program to enhance dead
horse performance

17) Declaring a dead horse less costly than a live
one

18) Forming a workgroup to find uses for dead
horses

19) Changing performance requirements for the
horse

20) Promoting the dead horse to a supervisory
position
31 3
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August 21, 2022 10:35am
- Yvette
  
  21) Proclaiming the dead horse is key to upholding Treaty of Waitangi obligations
  
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  August 21, 2022 11:11am
Benedict Yu

I stumbled across this article from Stuff in 2009.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/national/565544/Maori-cannibalism-widespread-but-ignored-academic-says

It describes Maori society as particularly violent. The book documents the nature and extent of cannibalism and infanticide.

It is inconceivable that the mainstream media in New Zealand would promote such a book these days.
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August 21, 2022 10:37am
- Swifty
  
  Cannibalism was part of Maori culture.
  
  It was Te Ao Maori.
  
  Is it now not part of Te Ao Maori?
  
  If so, why? Who decided that? Why did it cease? Was it caused to cease, if so by whom?
  
  The same goes for Maori slave-keeping. Why is not part of Te Ao Maori today?
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:56am
- Cassandra
  
  I have the book. NZ was indeed a violent place before 1840. Maori were frequently at war and it was not subject to the Geneva Convention. Killing prisoners was usual, cannibalism common. Slaves were meat on the hoof during raids. NZ is still a violent place – not in the same league as South Africa or Guatemala but noting gangs and ram raids Auckland for example hasn’t changed much! Well, no cannibalism so that’s a plus.
  
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  August 21, 2022 11:08am
- mogg
  
  Eric Newby’s ‘Best travell writings’ have a eye witness account of Maori cannibalism. It is taken from the log of one of the early English Navy trading ships which came to trade for kauri logs, which were used for masts. After the conclusion of the deal a Maori slave was killed and cooked onshore before being offered to the ships crew onboard.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The United Spot.
Need baby formula?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85bcs0gGYXQ
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August 21, 2022 10:45am
kiwikidsnz

This sounds familiar.

“Alarmingly, it was the German jurist and one-time Nazi Carl Schmitt, who wrote the playbook for the authoritarian takeover of democracy. Schmitt set it out in one sentence: “Sovereign is he who declares the exception.”

Simply: construct an emergency, claim extraordinary powers, and put yourself above the rules.”

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-21/scott-morrison-secret-appointments-weakening-australia-democracy/101350322
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August 21, 2022 10:48am
Paulus

From Wellington there appears to ba another angle to the Labour Party fiasco.
Raj Nahna – who is he ? – he holds the same position as H2 Simpson held in the Clark Government.
Cindy’s Chief of Staff – a very highly placed and powerful role in tbe inner circle of Ardern’s parlour.
It ia accepted that he has considerable position in the Labour Party to command the Party MPs expecially if they are also of Indian ethnicity.
One cheeky higher ranked Indian to the other, a lowly Labour MP perhaps.
It was he who Sharma originally wrote – copy of letter available I believe, and he did nothing apparently tangible.
It is believed originally it is he who was told to sort out Sharma as it was his job, and that Cindy would not get involved.
What web is evolved !
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August 21, 2022 11:15am
- Prince
  
  He told Sharma not to put anything in writing, and not to expect any response in writing.
  Apparently that is ‘standard practice’ and OK according to the inner circle Beehive media. The ones that wage war against Uffindell for a 20 year old bullying offence.
  
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  August 21, 2022 12:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

It’s time for a distraction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWec0npaR8I
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August 21, 2022 12:40pm
BeaB

“These stories all brought change and that is what we want to do as journalists”, says Patrick Gower accepting an award for best reporting.
Once a reporter becomes an activist, we need to be clearly told and warned. They must declare their affiliations and aims.
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August 21, 2022 12:47pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  It’s not that hard to work out. By their actions you will know them.
  
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  August 21, 2022 5:52pm
Jack5

Waikato Maori’s King Tuheitia has been made a patron of the Starship children’s hospital in Auckland.

The Herald reports that his patronage “will ensure a mokopuna-centric child health focus under the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) reforms launched during Matariki in June.” The newspaper goes on to say this new approach will combine bio-medical science and matauranga Maori to deliver and maintain child health and well-being.

For those interested in Maori medicine,or rongoa, the article linked to below is a start (it continues over a number of pages). It mentions exorcism as well as plant remedies. I found this extract interesting:

Illnesses were divided into mate atua (diseases of the gods) and mate tangata … Mate atua were often attributed to attacks by malevolent spirits, because the person had broken a tapu (religious restriction) – for instance, if they took food from a river where someone had died, or took a stick from a tree that had held their ancestor’s bones, and placed it on a cooking fire.

https://teara.govt.nz/en/rongoa-medicinal-use-of-plants
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August 21, 2022 1:21pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I doubt the medical professionals at this hospital will have much time for ‘matauranga Maori’.
  
  If ‘matauranga Maori’ is superior for curing childhood illness, why is it not used globally? Are Maori children biologically different to Chinese children?
  
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  August 21, 2022 2:49pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Our First Maori Doctors fought for the Tohunga Suppression act 1907 to outlaw the quackery and spiritual “healing” being widely practised throughout Communities at the beginning of the 20th century.
    
    But Nowadays some folks like to forget that it was Maori folk themselves – Sir James Carroll, Apirana Ngata, Dr Maui Pomare etc who pressed for the Act.
    
    https://winsleys.wordpress.com/2021/09/26/did-the-tohunga-suppression-act-undermine-maori-culture-and-wellbeing-enabling-disharmony-and-inequity-to-persist-until-now/
    
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    August 21, 2022 3:07pm
  - Dave
    
    And yet Radio NZ reports that “The Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care has been told [by Teaching Council chief executive Lesley Hoskin] competence in te reo and culture will eventually be mandatory for teachers.”
    
    I’m not sure how this stops abuse of children in care or improves the education of children likely to be abused, or improves education for anyone at all, but the overpowering obsession with cultural determinism and one ethnicity rather than professional competence is such that your sensible questions will fall on deaf ears.
    
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    August 21, 2022 5:06pm
    - Jack5
      
      Ghost’s “… Is it any different to a religious family going along to the hospital and praying with their child.”
      
      Will Christian, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, and other spiritual beliefs also “combine bio-medical science” in treatment at Starship?
      
      4 0
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      August 21, 2022 6:36pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It really makes me mad. Let’s say your kid has leukemia. It may be curable with radiation treatment and bone marrow transplants. That’s it. There is no Maori medicine treatment. Same for any serious childhood illness. If a kid is so sick that they are in Starship hospital, the only treatments are the ones that work.
  
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  August 21, 2022 2:52pm
  - Ghost
    
    Child is still going to get the same high standard treatment. I have no problems with Māori working alongside our medical institutes. If they can bring something to the treatment to help the child good. Is it any different to a religious family going along to the hospital and praying with their child. They aren’t going to be denying the child radiation treatment or bone marrow transplants.
    
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    August 21, 2022 3:48pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      But what proportion of the public health budget should go toward supporting Maori “traditional” practices and practitioners?
      
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      August 21, 2022 6:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        I would think the only option would be a per patient bases, just like the funding of a chiropractor or acupuncture for ACC. No idea.
        
        1 3
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        August 21, 2022 7:15pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “Is it any different to a religious family going along to the hospital and praying with their child [?]. ”
      
      You nailed it. No difference. But the Government does not pay hundreds of millions to religious parents to pray.
      
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      August 21, 2022 7:07pm
      - Ghost
        
        How much does it cost for a hospital to have a chapel in it?
        
        1 5
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        August 21, 2022 7:10pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Ask any medical professional for their opinion of Jehovah’s Witnesses & their attitude to blood transfusion.
    
    How is matauranga Maori any different?
    
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    August 21, 2022 3:53pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Many, many people seek ‘alternative’ treatments for serious illnesses, for themselves or the children.
    I think you should be equally outraged if you went to a health ‘professional’ and was recommended osteopathy, acupuncture, homeopathy, herbalists (very many Chinese ‘medicine’ shops around these days) or ‘natural supplements’ to treat your loved one.
    Kiwiblog will, however, reserve an extra level of contempt for anything deriving from Maori traditional knowledge, and imagine that it should be either rejected outright or subject to a level of scrutiny most other ‘alternatives’ seem to escape.
    
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    August 21, 2022 4:44pm
    - mandk
      
      You’re not keeping up, mma.
      
      I recently commented on Maori herbal medicines and was corrected by several commenters, who pointed out that there was no such thing.
      
      Traditional Maori healing, if any, was all spiritual – about as useful as a session with Benny Hinn.
      
      And I’m sure you wouldn’t vouch for his brand of ‘matauranga’.
      
      9 2
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      August 21, 2022 4:57pm
    - Dave
      
      Yes, we should be equally outraged, but…
      
      1) Do health professionals recommend these alternative treatments you’ve listed?
      2)Is the government setting up alternative health systems for other ethnic groups and likely to support other non-scientific, culture-based traditional treatments?
      
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      August 21, 2022 5:38pm
      - graham
        
        They are covered by ACC – does that count?
        
        “Kaupapa Māori health services.
        
        We define kaupapa Māori services as: indigenous, localised, whānau-centred solutions designed by Māori, with Māori, underpinned by tikanga and delivered by providers who identify as Māori, primarily for Māori, but available to all.”
        
        (I’m on my cellphone so can’t easily provide the link, but Google finds it easily)
        
        4 0
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        August 21, 2022 7:56pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “I think you should be equally outraged if you went to a health ‘professional’ and was recommended osteopathy, acupuncture, homeopathy, herbalists (very many Chinese ‘medicine’ shops around these days) or ‘natural supplements’ to treat your loved one.”
      
      YES and I would be equally outraged. I have long experience with acupuncture. It is bunk.
      
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      August 21, 2022 7:09pm
  - MCōs
    
    “If a kid is so sick that they are in Starship hospital”
    Not every kid is in hospital because they have cancer or something equally serious.
    My son spent time in hospital four times for various things when he was a child, only one of which would have required hospitalization when he was an adult.
    
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    August 21, 2022 5:18pm
- skyblue
  
  Witch doctory by any other name.
  
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  August 21, 2022 4:03pm
greybeard

How many more “natural disasters” will it take before compulsory house insurance is made law?
And compulsory 3rd party car insurance ?
Or will “Give-a-Little” become the default setting ?
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August 21, 2022 4:42pm
waripori

Insurers are not interested in compulsory 3rd party car cover. 3rd party claims can be very large and a bad driver is an unacceptable risk whether you are paying for their repairs or the car they hit. If you are insured it wont matter whether the person who bangs into you has cover or not.

Same sort of thing with compulsory house insurance. Insurers cant be forced to take on a risk. In many cases house insurance is really compulsory because no insurance no mortgage.
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August 21, 2022 6:02pm
greybeard

Jacinda rides to the rescue of Nelson flood victims !
Only a week ( yes folks, only one week ! ) after this region became a disaster area Jacinda has deigned to visit and dispense her udderly vapid comments to all and sundry.
First of all she will visit every kindergarten not yet flooded, and maybe even a few which are, just for balanced reporting.
Various TV interviews will show the world just how kindness, transparency and gobbledegook can overcome the worst of natural disasters, and how wearing a lifejacket can connect her to the greater population.
I foresee a change in name for Nelson: in the not too distant future it will become Ardernton.
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August 21, 2022 6:23pm
Alex

Right on Cue Facebook has banned Chantelle Baker before tomorrows protest. She is the poster girl for the Protest with model looks and Ardern won’t want that,
13 2
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August 21, 2022 7:02pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Speaking of the protest, it’s perhaps a good time for our Spindy to be out of town.
  
  3 1
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  August 21, 2022 9:25pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    She’ll need to be back in Wellington for her Mon Caucus meeting, I reckon.
    
    She should be in the House on Tuesday…. unless Mallard & Hipkins decide to close Parliament.
    
    3 1
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    August 21, 2022 10:21pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  And Facebook lies like a flatfish, or more accurately like our Prime Minister, by displaying this message when you try and go to her page:
  
  “This content isn’t available right now.
  When this happens, it’s usually because the owner only shared it with a small group of people, changed who can see it or it’s been deleted.”
  
  There’s another possible reason of course, which FB knows very well is the case, but it might be a bit awkward to admit that they’ve banned her on instruction from the Prime Minister’s office.
  
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  August 21, 2022 10:14pm

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