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December 9, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 December 2022

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General Debate

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Warren

Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister talks to Jenna Lynch on the protests .
Very upsetting ‘challenging ‘ part of the year- and why she worried about people’s safety.
Well isn’t she the Hypocrite of Hypocrites when she has to return to the protests of Parliament to try and blame the innocent that she targeted for he political agenda.
It doesn’t matter where you are or what the protest is about you will always have a percentage of those protests where they need to cause problems to further their involvement, but let’s be clear Jacinda Ardern created a big percentage of those problems because she wasn’t prepared to acknowledge them or have a meeting.
Our Prime Minister is wanting help in the polls as the majority have turned against her and its not helped by inflation and the economy crisis but its mostly her and her Government’s fault as they won’t listen or be told.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/12/extended-interview-with-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-on-election-2023-cost-of-living-parliament-protest.html
This is our media doing another fluff peice on our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to help her in next years Election and the 55 million they allocated our Prime Minister to Journalism and we are likely to see a lot more next year leading up to the 2023 General Election.
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December 9, 2022 8:00am
- mandk
  
  Ardern (and, to be fair, all 119 other MPs) caused the violent end to the protest.
  
  Until the last day or two, it was more peaceful and loving than a hippy convention. The people attending were a wide cross-section of NZers, and were drawn from across the political spectrum. All they wanted was for Ardern to honour her promise that people who chose not to be jabbed would face no penalties.
  
  By not engaging with the protestors in any way and spreading misinformation about them, she ensured that the protest would eventually be taken over by people who were looking for a fight.
  
  As far as I am concerned, what she did was unforgivable.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:49am
  - Bob
    
    all 119 other MPs)…
    all 119?; the National Party and ACT party opposition had nothing to do with fomenting the protest. This protest was solely of the governments own making.
    A protest that was aggravated by the behaviour of Mallard, the Speaker of the house!
    
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    December 9, 2022 2:37pm
    - mandk
      
      Not sure I agree.
      
      If National and ACT MPs had engaged with the protestors, they could have challenged the Ardern/Mallard nastiness, by making it clear who the protestors were in truth.
      
      National and ACT were firmly pro-mandate.
      
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      December 9, 2022 4:48pm
- Random T Person
  
  Jenna Lynch has, in recent days, proven her ability to take the lying PM down a notch or 2. Same with Bryce Edwards; I didn’t see any crying here after the excoriating piece he did on Wednesday in the Herald. And this goes for Thomas Coughlan, too, who has routinely faced ridicule here.
  Credit where due.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:51am
  - Keith White
    
    These are simply opportunists seeing which way the wind is shifting.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:42am
    - Random T Person
      
      They can’t win then, can they?
      But as always, so long as everyone is pissed off, they are probably doing their jobs well.
      
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      December 9, 2022 11:02am
      - Keith White
        
        They could be winners if they took a stand on principle. Since they write according to the prevailing and future subsidy winds – they deserve their desserts.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:15am
    - ecco
      
      Told to by the editor. Maybe the covid relief fund has dried up or they are looking to their funding in 2024?
      
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      December 10, 2022 9:14am
- RockyJ
  
  Yep, yep. Now she is playing the victim. This is the fall back position of the woke when they lose in a rational debate. Very useful for ethnic minorities, handicapped and women. Not a card available to white men, however.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:55am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I wonder if Jaspinda reads Kiwiblog and realises what a burden she is to NZ?
  Maybe one of her flunkies could show her the opinions voice here.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:04am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I truly doubt that Jacinda Ardern reads anything apart from her prepared scripts.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:24am
  - Bob
    
    show her the opinions …
    and explain the root cause of these opinions to HER; assuming that there is anyone on the govt bench who comprehends the situation.
    
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    December 9, 2022 2:34pm
  - Jim
    
    I’m sure one of Ardern’s many publicly funded “PR Minders” or “Spin Doctors” will access all forms of Social Media (including KB) in order to understand the mood of the nation, and then develop a counter strategy.
    
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    December 9, 2022 5:59pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Her propaganda network will definitely be monitoring KB as it is a significant blog that is generally anti lefty BS.
    
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    December 11, 2022 5:39pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  As I kept posting in this blog, Cindy is looking for increasing tax credits (no tax cuts) as a bribe to win 2023. Game over National.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:05am
  - michael_s2
    
    Sincerely hope you are going to have a couple of months away over the holidays. Your too frequent comments have become tediously boring.
    
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    December 9, 2022 6:53pm
- Harry Knuts
  
  Cindy is responsible by default being the PM. The mandates which was the cause of the protests was her decision. the buck stops with her.
  She was never worried about safety, she’s only worried about 1 thing and that is how popular she is and carrying out her WEF objectives. She’s about as cringy as Megan Markle. Fake sympathy.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:09am
- ClanMcleod
  
  If she was so worried about “people’s safety” then she wouldn’t have ordered the removal of toilets, the destruction of the professionally installed toilet and shower block or the sending in of the riot squad to batter, tear gas and sound cannon what was mainly a wide range of regular NZers from all walks of life.
  She is a liar and a fraud and her PR spin is being repeatedly exposed. End of story. She’s a goneburger and her legacy will be as the worst PM in history. She deserves that legacy.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:12am
  - graham
    
    … and would also not have allowed Trevor Mallard to turn on the sprinklers, blast them with loud music …
    
    … honestly, does she ever think before blurting out such nonsense?
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:32am
  - Random T Person
    
    I’ve heard from everyone who wasn’t there how feral the protest was. Except, unlucky for them, I was actually there. Lost a few friends over this, but to be fair, fuck them. Because they weren’t there, yet knew ALL about it.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:38am
    - crackle
      
      Sadly people lapped up the live blog on Stuffed which almost was entirely formulated by so called journos interviewing each other.
      The output varied from half the story to outright lies depending on the time of day.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:00pm
      - Ghost
        
        I watched the video stream on stuff, it was well done. Showed the signs so they could be read.
        
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        December 9, 2022 2:14pm
  - SoloView
    
    @ ClanMcleod
    
    Responsibility for Parliament’s buildings and grounds rests with speaker.
    
    The Speaker of the House “ordered the removal of toilets, the destruction of the professionally installed toilet and shower block”.
    
    He also tried using sound and water to get rid of the protesters. I think you and I would agree it was totally the wrong thing to do.
    
    The Police Commissioner was responsible for crowd control.
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:49pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      She can pass the buck all she wants, Ardern is ultimately responsible for the actions of all those who do her dirty work. Police, politicians, health “experts”. She’s the boss. That’s where it ends.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:20pm
      - Jim
        
        Agree Clan, but I also can’t forgive the lack of leadership courage of the “heads” (Police, Defence, Council, etc), as they should have robustly questioned the (quite obvious) ‘offensive strategy’ employed to aggravate the situation and actually incite violence.
        Let me be clear here, I don’t condone the horrendous retaliation, but believe the effective and respectful protest leadership had long since departed by the time the fists flew.
        
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        December 9, 2022 6:05pm
  - OlderChas
    
    I have pointed out a couple of times – there was no tear gas used to disperse the protestors. No police were wearing gas masks – therefore there was no tear gas deployed. The ‘clouds’ shown in clips were – I think – fire extinguishers.
    
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    December 10, 2022 8:24am
- Mrs_Right
  
  While on the subject of NewsHub, I’ve made the mistake of watching the 6 o’clock news last night. There was absolutely nothing about the Three Waters bill passing into law yesterday.
  
  The #1 story was about the family who don’t want their baby receiving vaccinated blood appearing on a FAR RIGHT website.
  
  The mind boggles…
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:19am
  - kowtow
    
    From that Spectator article linked in last night’s GD on the UK response.
    
    “His account shows how quickly the suppression of genuine medical misinformation – a worthy endeavour during a public health crisis – morphed into an aggressive government-driven campaign to smear and silence those who criticised the response. Aided by the Cabinet Office, the Department of Health harnessed the full power of the state to crush individuals and groups whose views were seen as a threat to public acceptance of official messages and policy. “
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:11am
- lastmanstanding
  
  So the Greens one of whose MPs put up the Entrenchment SOP and the Maori Party walked away from 3 Waters. Is this not the ultimate throwing Cindy under the bus.
  The Labour Maori Caucus have condemned Labour to at least 9 years in Opposition over this and their other Maorification Bull Shit.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:29am
  - leoj
    
    All positive.
    Nine years in oppo.
    Yay!
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:40pm
- Prince
  
  Agree re her refusal to meet even a small group of the protestors – terrible decision that had (and has) wide ranging consequences.
  But re Lynch’s interview, I presume we will get, over the next two weeks, similar softish interviews with Luxon, Seymour etc. I’m OK with that.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:04am
  - Sacha
    
    She didn’t have to meet with us. We would have been perfectly happy if she hd simply announced that the mandates were withdrawn forthwith, and then we would have all gone home. We didn’t like her anyway.
    She perpetuated the situation and used it for her own propaganda, and to con the vaccinated.
    You can bully some of the people some of the time, but not all of them all of the time.
    She’s past her use-by date.
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:18am
  - Mike H S
    
    Do NOT expect Lynch to be soft on Luxon or Seymour. She would choke if she tried.
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:27pm
    - Bob
      
      Mike HS
      Lynch is the new TOVA.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:40pm
- Paulus
  
  Lynch is just another one of Ardern’s adoring puppets.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:22am
- wilderbeast
  
  Agree. And I wonder too if Ardern rounded on Jenna Lynch for an “exclusive” because Newshub has been Labour sympathetic big time, but has recently turned, including, to some exent, Lynch herself. Another attempt to manipulate the media?
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:09am
- Surely Knott
  
  The more authoritarian the regime, the bigger the civil rights protest. Ending it with police in military gear, sonic canons and violence and the media reporting from the parliamentary balcony…….not a sign of a leader ruling with the consent of the people, not a functioning democracy.
  
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  December 10, 2022 7:28am
NeverMindTheBollocks

So I’ve been thinking about the name of our country, specifically how apposite it is. It describes a land surrounded by sea that’s new to all of us exotics.

The thing is, Maori island-hopped here over a few thousand years from Taiwan. Our early European settlers were in the main from the UK & Ireland, islanders all. Others, such as the Dalmatians & the Dutch are coastal people, as are the early Chinese (Canton) & Indians (Gujarat). Only the WW2 Polish kids buck that trend, for self evident reasons. All of whom came here by sea, all of whom will have seen the land uplifted high on the horizon. And Pacific Islanders are, well, islanders. The Helen Clark immigration policy changes have broadened the type of places people come from, but that doesn’t change the basic fact that the name New Zealand describes our country perfectly.
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December 9, 2022 8:01am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Bollocks bro – official name of our country according to Cindy is Aotearoa New Zealand.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hear hear, what that man said.
  This land is NEW Zealand, and it is going to stay that way for as long as I live anyway.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:07am
  - Nickc2
    
    Don’t forget the brave souls who gave their lives (Maori and Non-Maori) in support of their once South Pacific paradise called New Zealand.
    These people would be none too happy today if they could see New Zealand has transitioned into a South Pacific racist backwater with a bloated impression of its own importance under a Racially Dominated Marxist Govt.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:19am
  - Caleb
    
    Good story.
    The left have made big steps recently.
    One of these is a change in the education system to a Maori focus.
    In twenty years, a majority will happily want Iwi chief’s controling Aotearoa.
    This is our legacy.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:41am
    - Sacha
      
      I await the day when Kiwi Codger’s videos become the official history of New Zealand –
      
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      December 9, 2022 11:19am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Without any shadow of a doubt, the vast majority of those identifying as maori in NZ have a relatively small percentage of that lineage. Like most of us. We are made up of many pieces of DNA.
  To implement laws and policies to disproportionally favour one group at the expense of all others does nothing to address any perceived historical wrongs. It is a recipe for disaster and is guaranteed to foment serious societal issues in the future with the potential to become violent.
  As I have said often, Ardern is the worst PM in NZ history, and with her horrendous, divisive policies over covid and race she is without doubt, the most dangerous.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:21am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    A question. So we have around 15% who identify as having some Maori ancestry. But off that number what %age is Maori. I have 100% English ancestry and a family tree that goes back to the 13th century.
    I am yet to see any stats that quantify the %age of Maori ancestry of thise who identify as Maori.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:23am
    - Phronesis
      
      Impossible to know. This govt removed any penalty for solo mothers not naming the father. For people who claim that genetic heritage is so important they have done a great job of ensuring that many children in nz can’t know their own.
      
      For that matter the fathers name on the birth certificate is always the legal spouse of your birth mother. Even if you aren’t related to either of them. Similarly if you’re adopted.
      
      The whole idea of knowing your genetic heritage is fraught these days for many people.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:41am
  - Paulus
    
    I have heard it said that there was, incidentally found via DNA , one women who was identified as Maori.
    She was not aware of it.
    In Winston Peters’s speech in September he said that 1 part Maori in 512 entitles you to be on the Maori Roll.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:27am
    - Phronesis
      
      That’s me, needless to say I’m more interested in the other 511 parts.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:43am
      - lemuzz
        
        A well known and likeable maori sheep shearer was famously known for his comment in the local pub to a female patron “Do you have any Maori in you?” to which she answered “No”. He replied to her ” Do you want some?”
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:36am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Aristocracies – NZ’s academic and far left’s desired model for co-governance and maori supremacy in NZ – are only of benefit to the aristocrats (tribal leadership). The wide ranging costs, inefficiencies, disincentives, degraded institutions and flight of high-achievers (the key people in elevating a country’s performance) that result are demonstrably all worse for the other 99.99% of the population.
    
    Labour 2017-2023 will live on in future as an historic lesson in how to fuck a country through administrative incompetence and ignorant unleavened ideological fanaticism.
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:28am
  - herb1
    
    Come non Clan McLeod. Surely it’s racist to imply such Maori names as Willie Jackson, Kelvin Davis et al aren’t Maori.
    
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    December 9, 2022 12:37pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy International Anti-Corruption Day!
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December 9, 2022 8:02am
- Nickc2
  
  But the Labour Govt’s still in power. Hot so happy eh?
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:11am
  - Paulus
    
    Why will nobody now confirm that they voted for her ?
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:28am
    - Keith White
      
      Just like every Frenchman was in the Resistance, in the post-Ardern era every Kiwi will have voted ABBA (Anyone But the Bolshevik Ardern).
      
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      December 9, 2022 11:16am
    - Bob
      
      will nobody now confirm….
      Unfortunately for many people, following the euphoric alcohol laden weekend celebrations when they learned that Jacinda was the pm with a 53% majority; many who voted for her now have a serious case of electoral amnesia.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:47pm
- RalphT
  
  It’s not the anniversary of the founding of the Labour Party is it?
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:16am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Btw, the Labour Party of yesteryear was nothing like the socialist/communist Labour today.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:10am
    - MCōs
      
      You need to do a bit of research into the people who formed the New Zealand Labour Party.
      
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      December 9, 2022 9:33am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I have. They were very different people, unlike the liars of today
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:35am
- Ghost
  
  Happy we have the most corrupt government in New Zealand history day.
  
  Happy theft of council infrastructure day.
  
  Happy every sector of public service is in crisis day
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Is this propaganda from your boss? No? Best tell your boss Jaspinda then, Mike.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:35am
- alloytoo
  
  Now that is irony, given the events of yesterday.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:13am
Maggie's partner

My mole in the beehive has just sent me this transcript. I have no way of verifying it or guessing as to the identities of the people referred to only by initials…..

JA: I just don’t understand why the public are so up in arms about this bill. I mean, we are not China, are we? If people want to have 3 daughters, then they should be able to.

NM: 3 daughters means a heap of welfare for the whanau, Cindy sister bro, that’s good for votes

GR: Quite, PM. We need votes. The polls are awful

CH: I thought they were unlucky against France

WJ: Just keep doing what we tell you, Cindy, think of it as entrenchment warfare, we invented that, you know.

JA: Well of course, don’t forget, I am in charge…

NM: Yeah right, someone call Tui, hold my popcorn

GR: What Cindy means is that technically, of course, she is the PM

JA: Can everyone stop calling me Cindy. Now look, Nanaia, you have put me in a very difficult position

NM: No I haven’t

JA: You’ve broken the cabinet rules

NM: No I haven’t

GR: (sotto voce) Denier Mahuta. (sniggers)

JA: You’ve made me look a fool

NM:

JA: You need to be careful, I am planning a reshuffle, you know

WJ: Yeah, we know, here’s a list of the decisions you’ve made and your new cabinet

JA: But there must be some mistake. Its says Prime Minister, Winston Peters?

WJ: yeah, the old Trojan Horse himself, years undercover, now it’s time for him to claim his rightful throne as our leader.
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December 9, 2022 8:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Well done. “hold my popcorn” LOL
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:13am
Alan Wilkinson

This article must be in the running for the worst of the day. And an ex Nat MP to boot:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/the-willy-jackson-interview-was-not-a-train-wreck-but-it-did-go-off-the-media-tracks/4RIMJT6WTBFRFDNK3EUSRJXLSU/
Ok, she is his old workmate but that doesn’t excuse her total blindness.
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December 9, 2022 8:06am
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  Well, she’s allowed her opinion. She’s also allowed to be wrong.
  
  Surely a focussed spend on those media sectors that require assistance would be more effective than spening millions on a media merger that is neither needed or wanted?
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:16am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    She wants everyone to be wrong her and Willie’s way. And us to pay for it.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:54am
- rouppe
  
  In the first sentence she brings race into it.
  
  Stopped reading at that point.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:22am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Same – also couldn’t understand several of the words in the first para, as they’re not in a language I understand.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:21am
  - Sideoiler
    
    In the first sentence she brings race into it.
    
    Stopped reading at that point.
    
    Yes saw the name and thought this will be a brown mafia thing rather than a supportive former co worker thing.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:53am
- pdm
  
  AW – is that the same woman who occasionally does the weather on TVNZ at weekends in a language almost no one understands.
  
  She talks about towns and cities that do not exist in New Zealand.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:28am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    I would have no idea since watchimg TVNZ current affairs is akin to giving yourself a brain injury IMO.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:51am
  - Unity
    
    If you want to know what the weather is, it’s best to turn the sound off and just read the maps. That’s the way I can avoid all the ridiculous made-up language that fills our ears and I can also know what the weather will be at the same time.
    
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    December 9, 2022 12:43pm
    - graham
      
      At the weekends that’s what my wife does. She is a creature of habit and *always* watches the news and weather – but she quite simply cannot understand what the presenter at the weekend says, so mutes the sound.
      
      Despite what the howling throngs would scream, that’s not racist, it’s just plain common sense – when somebody presents the weather to an English-speaking audience, and proceeds to use a considerable amount of a different language, how is the audience supposed to understand it? It honestly baffles me that it’s considered “RACIST!!!” to point this out.
      
      Me, I just pick up my phone and check the weather online.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:09pm
- Harry Knuts
  
  “I have been watching with great amusement the Pākehā media furore ”
  She sets the tone on how her feeling are against anyone non-maori. Stopped reading from there. Stinks of coloniser hater.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:14am
- Loddenthinks
  
  It’s true she was a former National MP, a very brief arrangement (14 months) which appeared to suit neither.
  
  She got in as a list MP after Aaron “Don’t you know who I am?” Gilmore was bounced, and didn’t even make it to the next election.
  
  Has broken several rules and wasn’t above a bit of double-dipping and nepotism, not that she has that on her own.
  
  “During the 2010 Auckland local elections, Hauiti stood for the Albert-Eden Local Board in the Owairaka Subdivision. Representing Citizens & Ratepayers, she was not elected.
  
  Hauiti stood in the Māngere electorate during the 2011 general election representing National,[6] losing to Labour’s William Sio.
  
  Following Aaron Gilmore’s resignation, Hauiti replaced him as a list MP on 28 May 2013.[7][8][3]
  
  In March 2014 she returned her parliamentary charge card to Parliamentary Services, after using it to pay for a Christmas trip to Australia.[9] In April 2014 she breached parliament rules by employing her wife as an assistant in her electorate office. She said she was unaware of the rule and immediately terminated the employment after being made aware.[10]
  
  Hauiti announced her resignation from politics on 22 July 2014, after having already been selected as the candidate for Kelston in the upcoming election.[11] She was replaced by Chris Penk.[12] She left Parliament prior to the election date to return to her private business.”
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:28pm
Kiwiguy

An MP by name of Mahuta
Wanted to change laws to suit her.
Ardern she defied
And democracy died
When she rammed ‘em all through just to root her

Mahuta has quite the agenda:
Democracy goes in the blender.
We see nepotism
She cries “that’s racism”
And Ardern’s too scared to offend her

Mahuta’s nefarious thinking
Will divide up NZ in an inkling
New Zealand wants ‘Kiwi’
She only wants ‘Iwi”
And now our good country is sinking.

It’s quite clear to us that Nanaia
Has spent a long time to conspire.
She’s out to deceive
And we’ve come to believe
That she’s proven to be quite a liar

Mahuta’s iniquitous scheme
Has offended the public mainstream.
Their feathers she’s ruffled
We hope she gets shuffled
When Ardern reshuffles her team
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December 9, 2022 8:13am
- Zorba
  
  But but but Her Daddys last name was Ormsby
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:41am
- RockyJ
  
  Brilliant
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yep, this is well done.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:17am
- Paulus
  
  Nah nah, Ardern cannot touch Mahuta in any meaningful way – minor adjustment perhaps and the media, like the sycophant Jenna Kynch will say how wunnerrful Ardern is.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:33am
- Kiwiguy
  
  The things my mind does in the night… had to write it down this morning before I forgot it.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:41am
- Kiwiguy
  
  And a couple more have come into my head. Enjoy:
  
  But Jacinda’s old halo has slipped,
  And her polls have definitely dipped.
  Ideological goals
  Such as importing coals
  Have made the whole country tight-lipped
  
  Yet the left are still digging their hole,
  While the right wing are now on a roll.
  No amount of poll dancing
  Will stop them advancing,
  Will Ardern end up on the dole?
  
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  December 9, 2022 4:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

It looks like that promised public consultation on Co-governance isn’t going to happen this year.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/co-governance-work-put-on-ice

Has Jacinda Ardern lied to the NZ public yet again?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/03/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-confirms-public-consultation-on-m-ori-co-governance-will-happen-in-2022.html
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December 9, 2022 8:17am
- Nickc2
  
  Isn’t Co-Governance already embedded in 5Waters Legislation? OOPS, no, I got that wrong. 5Waters Legislation legalises Maori theft and total control. There’s no ‘Co-Governance involved in that!
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:25am
- Yvette
  
  Why, in a so-called democracy, does one man, Willie Jackson, make the decision on exactly what, of the consultations had in 72 hui with targeted Maori ēlite, is filtered through him, to consider what is suitable to be presented to Cabinet?
  
  Māori Development Minister Willie Jackson received the first draft of a declaration plan in June, which was expected to be signed off by Cabinet and then publicly released for consultation with all New Zealanders.
  But Jackson wasn’t comfortable with the proposals put forward and knew Cabinet wouldn’t agree to it, so asked the governance group set up to consult and draw up the plan to go back and try again.
  _________
  
  “Co-governance work set to be put on hold
   Willie Jackson says he’s leaning towards putting the Government’s co-governance work on hold next year, political editor Jo Moir reports
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/co-governance-work-looks-set-to-be-put-on-hold
  
  And “3 Waters” legislation involving “co-governance” passed through its final reading in Parliament yesterday …
  
  Yes, Maggy – they have lied again
  and again …
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:36am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Look, Willie Jackson does indeed combine malevolence with incompetence, and not in a good way. Co-governance a truly appalling, disgraceful affront to democracy.
    
    But you are barking pointlessly up an irrelevant tree with this “how come he gets to decide what is put to Cabinet” line.
    
    He gets to decide that because he is a Minister. It is a fundamental part of any Minister’s job to decide what proposals are put to Cabinet, when and in what form.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Willie is very high up in the cabal of Maori Elite.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:23am
    - Unity
      
      Where did I hear that Willie either only has a smidgen of the special Maori DNA or has none at all? Have I got that wrong?
      
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      December 9, 2022 12:46pm
      - 3-coil
        
        18% European
        34% East Asian
        25% Ashkenazi Jewish
        20% Maori
        
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        December 9, 2022 3:45pm
  - herb1
    
    If he believed , that even with the Maori caucuses ability to get undemocratic ,racist policy through cabinet , that he would ntget this proposal from Maori through, then it must have been a nuclear bombs worth
    
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    December 9, 2022 12:43pm
- krazykiwi
  
  We don’t need any public consultation on Co-governance any more than we need consultation on abolishing parliament for a one-party state.
  
  Agreeing to ‘consultation’ is to agree that the concept has merit, and is worthy of debate.
  
  It isn’t.
  
  ‘Consultation’ is an excuse to frame the debate and then emerge with a mandate.
  
  We should decline consultation, citing the human rights long associated with civil democracy as the model we’ll be sticking with.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:06am
rouppe

Christmas jokes, just heard on Hosking’s show from Tim Wilson:

Q: What sort of peas ruin Christmas?
A: MP’s

🤣
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December 9, 2022 8:25am
Surely Knott

The coroners results for the sad death of a young teen, Isabella Rangiamohia Alexander, from Muriwai who died after vaccination is out and the death is not vaccine related but related to the contraceptive pill. She was showing clear signs of clots before the vaccine.

A couple of thoughts though:

– I didn’t know Isabella’s death was still to be reported. A third teen vaccine death was linked to the vaccine in April , with no details of the situation, and no name or suburb given, so I wondered if it was Isabella since that was the only one we had been told about, and maybe the coroner had been wrong in her initial statement. It was confusing. Why do they sometimes give a name and sometimes not, especially given that is in the public interest and we are being forced to take it. At least give an identifying suburb or anonymous title so we can follow the stories clearly.

– Second question, Isabella was clearly showing clot symptoms three days before and visited the doctor. And it turns out she has a common clotting gene, Factor V Leiden, that 5% of europeans have. Why was she given the vaccine when she had active clotting symptoms. Should we be testing all Europeans proactively for Factor V Leiden the clotting disease before they are given clotting medical products like the contraceptive pill and mrna.

Finally, It’s clear that the pill was causing clotting symptoms for Isabella due prior to the vaccine. But she died after the vaccine which also causes clotting. How do they rule out that the vaccine didn’t exacerbate the clotting problem she was already having.

It’s good to have a reasonably clear coroners report and it does ease some concerns. RIP Isabella. I can’t imagine losing your young teen suddenly like this. Heartbreaking.
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December 9, 2022 8:28am
- krazykiwi
  
  “Why was she given the vaccine when she had active clotting symptoms”
  
  Because the medical establishment was directed to plunge as many needles into as many shoulders as humanly possible. The Hippocratic oath became meaningless once the dark threat of rescinded medical registrations was circulated.
  
  Public health has been sick for a while, but Covid-exposed capture of previously trusted medical authorities, regulators and public leaders means it is now on its death bed.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

What is Co-Governance
A Maori and a non-Maori co-own a $1000 car.
With democracy, they put in $500 each to make the purchase.
They wash the car together, pay for the registration, warrant, and maintenance together, and have equal time driving it.
They also have 50/50 ownership of a car park. All the expenses connected with the car park are shared equally.
Then suddenly, the Maori wants to change from democracy to co-governance.
With co-governance, the Maori claims 100% ownership of the car and the carpark. He insists the non-Maori continues to wash the car, pay for the registration, maintenance and warrant.
The Maori gets to drive the car whenever he wants. The non-Maori only gets to drive it when the Maori is not driving it AND pays the Maori a fee every time he uses it.
He also charges the non-Maori an on-going fee for parking the car on the car park. When the car is sold, the Maori takes all the money.
If the 99.5% NZ sheeple (i.e. the non-elite Maori population of New Zealand) are ready to cede rights and submit to the ultimate authority of a .5% elite Maori minority, being pushed through illegally, they should at least do so after studying a clear explanation.
As Winston Peters says, co-governance and democracy are absolutely different.
Maori politicians deliberately use terms like “tweaked democracy” or “sophisticated governance” to muddle and confuse the public.
Don’t buy into it. Keep firmly in mind the story of the $1000 car.
Co-governance replaces democracy by a system which redistributes political rights and powers.
How?
It reduces the rights and powers of the 99.5% non-elite Maori population and gives those rights and powers to the Maori elite – perhaps less than .5% of the population – with power of veto giving them ultimate power.
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December 9, 2022 8:30am
- Yvette
  
  At a glance, Steve, if co-governance is a $1,000 car and a 50 /50 deal
  Maori, at 17 percent of the population, are multiplied by 3 to reach 50% vote
  Non-Maori are reduced to 0.6 to fit 83% into 50%
  So Maori, in this arrangement, have 5 times the non-Maori vote in where the car goes.
  
  But “Mana o te Wai” statement are like a road map or sat.nav which must be obeyed or followed
  So the car goes where the Map o te Way says.
  QED
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:03am
  - Paulus
    
    In mythology it is said
    “If you do not know where you are going any road will take you there”.
    Sounds like 3/5 Waters then !
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:37am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    This is a copy and paste from the first page of:
    http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
    By Julian Batchelor.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:38am
MCōs

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Is the family of the sick baby that urgently requires a heart operation her clients or assets?
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December 9, 2022 8:31am
- MCōs
  
  *Sue Grey’s clients or assets?*
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:34am
- burt
  
  Equally, are you at all concerned for the child or are you only concerned for Pfizer’s reputation?
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:39am
  - Ian Boag
    
    I’m trying to find a reputable source for the idea that there are dangers associated with the use of blood from donors who have had the covid vaccine.
    
    This is a genuine question ….
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:25am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Maybe there are no dangers. However it may be too soon to tell.
      
      Personally, I disagree with what these parents are doing. The reality is that doctors in New Zealand will only use blood products from the New Zealand blood service. There are very good reasons for that policy.
      
      However, this is what happens when people lose trust in the health system. People were lied to: “95 percent effective” “Get vaccinated to protect your granny”. These were LIES.
      
      Anyway, if the baby does not get surgery soon it will be a dead baby.
      
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      December 9, 2022 9:54am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Maybe there are no dangers. However it may be too soon to tell.
        
        Given the difficulty of proving a negative, it will always be “too soon” …..
        
        So we have to go back to first principles. AFAICT the vaccine itself disappears pretty quickly. It causes the formation of antibodies which are pretty much the same as those found in the blood of people who have had covid. If blood with these antibodies is introduced into another person, the host immune system ignores them.
        
        Open – as always – to correction …
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:07am
      - burt
        
        Ian
        
        We were told it disappears very quickly from the body. We were also told it was 95% effective at stopping us getting covid, that we’d get herd immunity via vaccination and that the vaccinated wouldn’t get very sick and die from covid.
        
        After so many of their claims about the vaccine have been proven wrong, there comes a point where you probably need to stop believing the one thing they said that hasn’t – yet.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:13am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        NZ Blood has stand down periods for other vaccines. Why not for the covid jab? It is a political decision and it is this playing politics which has caused the delay, not the genuine concern of the parents.
        
        VFF posted regarding the topic and I would ask you to read it and let me know any concerns you have regarding anything they are stating.
        
        The decision by the New Zealand Blood Service (NZBS) to ignore emerging safety signals regarding the presence of spike protein, mRNA, and lipid nanoparticles in the blood and organs of vaccine recipients is unfathomable.
        The whole article is here.
        
        https://www.voicesforfreedom.co.nz/blood
        
        As you point out, we were lied to repeatedly and trust is gone for many. So I don’t understand why you disagree with the parents?
        They want treatment for their child. They have many appropriate blood donors available. They are not delaying the process, that is a political decision by the NZ health authorities, almost certainly at the direction of the 9th floor of the Beehive.
        
        Yes, loss of trust in once reputable institutions is a serious and concerning issue, but you don’t fix it by taking people to court and enforcing compliance with those same institutions. You rebuild trust. That takes time. This will only setback that process for an even longer period.
        
        I haven’t been to my medical centre for over a year. I have no intention of going again while I am conscious. If I have a trauma injury involving serious bleeding or broken bones then yes. But otherwise, I have lost all trust in whatever pharmacuticals they have given me over the years and don’t want any more going forward.
        It is a complete tragedy and it is all the responsibility of Jacinda Ardern.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:33am
      - Ghost
        
        Doesn’t the fact the child has already had a blood transfusion rule out their concerns as vaccinated blood has already been given
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:45am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Seems there are 20+ people who are unvaxed and ready to donate.
        So if they all donate and the blood is separate from the Blood bank, the Doctors can just gram what they need. Nobody will know who is the donor.
        Someone high up is forcing this. Common sense is not that common, they don’t want to look like a jerk.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:43am
    - burt
      
      Good luck trying to find any honest reporting of the vaccine risks.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:02am
    - cmm
      
      You have that upside down.
      
      The way we are supposed to introduce new medicines etc is to prove that they cause no damage. It takes years to determine that.
      
      Responsible medics limit the exposure of their patients to unneeded medication. On Tuesday the cardiologist gave me new meds to use. Even though these are well known meds with a lengthy safety record, she is still hesitant to hand out meds like lollies. Why? Because all medications – no matter what – have some side effects.
      
      Unvaccinated blood is available to this patient, and is known to be OK, So what is the problem with using that?
      
      The only reason for forcing the vaccinated blood on these people is pure power play. Why force someone to accept a situation that has no benefit?
      
      They might claim that is inconvenience, but that is rubbish. There are a raft of people willing to give blood.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:14am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Unvaccinated blood is available to this patient, and is known to be OK, So what is the problem with using that?”
        
        No. See my separate comment. There is no lawful way for a doctor in New Zealand to allow a patient to arrange their own blood supplies. It would require Parliament to change the Act that governs the New Zealand Blood Service.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:24am
      - Keith White
        
        First Law of Medicine: Do. No. Harm.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:46am
      - Phronesis
        
        Replying to Benedict- The Act does not require the blood service to pool the blood from multiple donors. It would be simple enough to do in practice. Expensive though.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:53am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        BY. Seems the rule is you can’t choose your donor.
        That is the stupid bit. That’s why I say use 20 unvaxed people. The parents will not know each person, so they are not choosing a donor, they are just wanting blood from an unvaxed person.
        Seems these academics are quite thick when making the rules.
        I don’t think the chossing a donor is Law, just a dumb rule.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:27am
      - MCōs
        
        Does someone who requires a heart transplant, for example, have the opportunity to specify who is an acceptable donor?
        
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        December 9, 2022 12:08pm
      - Phronesis
        
        MCos – re donation, both donors and recipients can choose. Donors can in theory place any restriction they wish, including things that would usually be illegal, eg race, sexuality etc. in practice the system may refuse their donation or it may comply with their wishes if practical.
        
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        December 9, 2022 3:58pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Here’s a genuine reply.
      
      Firstly a qualifier that needs to be expressed. The parents did NOT try and prevent treatment. They are happy with the procedure but have concerns about the blood. They had alternative sources for the blood. The only people delaying treatment were the NZ medical authorities.
      
      Next, three facts that should be enough to see the “precautionary principle” used.
      
      The spike protein does NOT stay at the injection site as was originally stated. It has been found in many organs of the body after injection.
      
      The spike protein does not vanish from the body after injection, it is known to persist for weeks. NZ Blood has “stand down” periods for other vaccines. Not for the covid jab. Why?
      
      The spike protein is toxic.
      
      The spike protein has been shown to be toxic in its own right, with adverse effects on cells lining the blood vessels and cells in the heart muscle among others. A recipient of blood from a vaccinated donor could potentially be exposed to spike protein and it is absolutely possible that this may cause harm to these organs.
      
      The safety of Covid-vaccinated donor blood is important to many New Zealanders.
      
      Ensuring policy is based on scientific evidence rather than assumption is of utmost importance.
      
      The precautionary principle must be applied, as it is in other instances where stand-downs or exclusions apply.
      
      NZDSOS has put out a comprehensive media release on the subject. Read it and respond with verifiable facts if you find anything that is wrong or misleading. Don’t bother with an ad hominem, they are juvenile and tiresome.
      
      https://nzdsos.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/NZDSOS-media-release-Whats-the-issue-with-blood-from-vaccinated-donors_.pdf
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:15am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “They had alternative sources for the blood.”
        
        This is the last time I will make this point. Even if they wanted to, doctors cannot allow patients to arrange their own blood supplies. They would be breaking the law.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:25am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – then why was the decision able to be challenged in court?
        If what you say is correct it is a farcical situation.
        
        There is screening for blood in many areas. On the NZ Blood website there is an eligibility test:
        
        If you travelled in the UK, France or Ireland between 1980 and 1996 you are ineligible to give blood.
        
        If you have ever injected any drugs not supplied by a doctor you are ineligible to give blood.
        
        If you have had a tattoo or piercing you are ineligible to give blood for 3 months.
        
        If you are male and have had oral or anal sex with another male you are ineligible to give blood for 3 months. (Why the fuck this doesn’t apply to females makes zero sense?)
        
        The moronic part is, the requirement for all of this information is voluntary. There is even a helpful “back” button if you find yourself declined for giving the “wrong” answer. Isn’t that reassuring?
        
        With the evidence available now that has raised many justified concerns around all aspects of the covid response then if this is indeed law it is beyond a joke. No wonder trust and faith in government, media and medical institutions are collapsing.
        The parents were not wrong. Why you disagree with them is beyond me.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:53am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I have great sympathy with the parents. You are misunderstanding my point. I am saying that the surgeons can only use blood products provided by the New Zealand Blood Service. All the press reports suggest that the parents had folk lined up to come into the hospital to donate their blood. That would be illegal.
        
        The NZBS provides standardised and quality controled blood products.
        
        https://www.nzblood.co.nz/about-blood/what-blood-is-used-for/
        
        It does not provide a service for creating personalised products for specific recipients.
        
        As usual, the New Zealand media is incapable of providing a story with anything beyond sound bites. They do not provide the public with any detail of the law governing blood products (it took me 2 minutes to find it), and they do not interview anyone from NZBS to find out if what the parents were asking for would be legally or technically possible.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:53am
    - Harry Knuts
      
      and equally and objectively there is no proof yet the jabbed blood doesn’t have dangers associated with. time will tell.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:16am
    - Matt Long
      
      Suggest you look at the safety data from Pfizer who will have done studies as to the effects on donated blood/pregnant woman, miscarriages, fertility rates and SADS to prove the safety of the vaccine before rolling it out. //
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:53am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Matt – that’s why I am currently in a state of disbelief. The mountain of real world evidence showing so many concerns about every aspect of this disaster cannot be denied, yet Ardern and others continue to try and do so. It is gaslighting on a scale I have never come across before.
        When someone throws up a genuine question here around covid it can take me an hour to find the relevant evidence. Sure, I could have a more efficient system, but I’ve been collating information for almost 3 years and it is loosely organised. However, it is there, evidence regarding the lies around every single part of the clown show we’ve had to live through.
        
        It’s why we aren’t permitted a real debate between real experts, instead we have to listen to Ardern repeating two words, “disinformation, misinformation” like a broken record. It’s a bullshit response which nobody has been able to define.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:32am
- Surely Knott
  
  When can we expect medsafe’s full approval for the Pfizer vax Mcos. How’s that coming along. When will Pfizer take legal responsibility for its product.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:51am
  - MCōs
    
    Why are you asking me?
    Google it yourself.
    
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    December 9, 2022 12:15pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      “Google it”. That explains a lot about your posts.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:22pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  You come out with some vile shit at times but that’s the lowest yet.
  The family didn’t refuse treatment. The medical authorities did that because it challenged their “authority”. It was a political decision, it was nothing to do with health. Everything the parents wanted was for the benefit of the child. What the medical authorities are doing adds risk and is what caused the treatment delay.
  Go and hang your head in shame. Obnoxious.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:31am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I disagree. It is not political. It is the law. (But see my comment above for context.) There is no way that a doctor in New Zealand is going to allow parents to arrange their own blood transfusion supplies. Because to do so would be unlawful. See section 63.
    
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2008/0028/latest/DLM1154253.html
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:58am
    - cmm
      
      Well that’s a stupid law.
      
      The system can accomodate these people, with little effort, so why not.
      
      It is more hassle accommodating people with a vegan diet and they routinely do that.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:16am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Sorry I disagree. I very much doubt that you would find ANY developed country where patients can arrange their own blood supply in hospitals.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:27am
      - Keith White
        
        Benedict: I have worked in hospitals overseas where patients can pool their family’s and their own blood* donated in advance of procedures. For example, Singapore. *It’s called autologous blood donation.
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:48am
      - Don Beckett
        
        You can have your own blood taken & stored for a future operation so that you will receive your own blood – what’s so different here?
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:00am
      - Phronesis
        
        Directed donation is not uncommon. Occasionally for clinical reasons but not usually.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:03am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “You can have your own blood taken & stored for a future operation so that you will receive your own blood…”
        
        Can you?
        
        “The use of autologous blood is no longer recommended, unless the clinical circumstances are exceptional.”
        
        https://www.nzblood.co.nz/become-a-donor/ways-to-donate/donating-blood-plasma-or-platelets/
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:57am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY – “no longer recommended”. No offence, but that’s not the same as “illegal” which was how I took your post to be saying. It’s all irrelevant. What happened is totally immoral.
        As the old saying goes, “everything Hitler did during his time in power was legal”.
        
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        December 9, 2022 12:24pm
      - cmm
        
        BY: Of course what NZ Blood recommends is what is easiest for them.
        
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        December 9, 2022 7:07pm
    - Phronesis
      
      That was why they attempted to include the NZBS in the law suit. What they wanted to do was possible. Although it wasn’t clear if they were willing to pay for it or not.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:59am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Phronesis – I would bet any money that they would have had the money to pay for it within an hour if needed.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:35am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Aha. So you do have an authoritative and reputable source that explains the dangers of blood from a vaccinated donor.
    
    Anyway perhaps you could point us at the sources you do have … ?
    
    8 14
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    December 9, 2022 10:14am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      NZDSOS and VFF have all the information you need. Your opinion on their “reputation” and “authority” doesn’t override the truths they have posted.
      
      Anyway “reputable” and “authoritative” sources have taken a bit of a hiding these days. I try and avoid them whenever possible. I’d rather read the information and check the sources in as many places as possible to determine potential veracity.
      
      On that front, NZDSOS and VFF wipe the floor with the government and their “experts” every single time.
      That would be why the coward Michael Laws canned the VFF ladies from his show today. They wiped the floor with him last Friday.
      
      Steve Kirsch got similar treatment from The Platform. They refused to have him on their show. Plunkett and Laws prefer to bully, insult, smear and hang up on regular NZ citizens who they disagree with. They don’t debate. The reason? They are out of their depth, totally. The same with all of the “experts” like Baker and Wiles and Hendy. They won’t go near a debate with anyone serious because they will be exposed as the liars and frauds that they are in minutes.
      
      If you are genuinely interested in what is happening then read his article on the topic. He was in NZ last week and wrote it in the airport waiting for a flight to SF.
      
      https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/why-cant-we-talk-about-it?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=548354&post_id=88862516&isFreemail=true&utm_medium=email
      
      Otherwise get back under your bridge and leave the adults to the genuine debate.
      
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      December 9, 2022 11:47am
  - Ian Boag
    
    @Clan
    
    We get the picture that you are unhappy.
    
    What would you be doing now if you were one of the parents? Would you continue to play chicken with the baby’s well-being until “the system” gave in and did things your way?
    
    Do tell.
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:41am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I’m not unhappy. I’m dismayed that we have such inept people making such important decisions.
      If it was my child I would be considering going to a country that permitted directed donations. Many do. Even the UK, though they “discourage it.
      No doubt I would be arrested at the airport for daring to defy the “authorities”.
      We live in a wonderful democracy under comrade Ardern……..//
      
      You have a lovey day under your bridge. This “debate” is finished from my end.
      
      8 5
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      December 9, 2022 12:13pm
      - MCōs
        
        You would be arrested for contempt of court.
        Nothing to do with Ardern.
        
        4 10
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        December 9, 2022 12:28pm
    - cmm
      
      Is it the parents playing chicken? Or is it the system refusing to budge?
      
      3 0
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      December 9, 2022 7:08pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        It’s the system refusing to do the right thing. Contrary to Benedict’s claims, there is nothing in the law that says that a patient cannot request directed blood. They don’t recommend it, but that’s a different thing completely.
        
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        December 10, 2022 2:31pm
Im Right

Election next year!
Any ‘controversial’ policies will be put in the back burner or at least slowed down to be kept away from any negative headlines (Co-Governance, He Puapua, RNZ/TVNZ merger…5Waters has already passed but put on a slow burner)
Labour already know, as it stands, they are toast at the election so ‘drop’ the controversial policies and hope and prey the idiot voters ‘forget’ about them. And if they win…well we know what policies will be top of the pile to be fast tracked.
Nationals and ACTs job it to keep all of those policies front and center in all their election campaiging.
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December 9, 2022 8:32am
- rockape
  
  What will happen after Christmas ? Well your right Labour will back off on policy. On the other side National will release policy which Labour will want to argue over. So till the election Luxon will be getting the headlines and Jacinda won’t. If National had released its main plan by now then Labour wouldn’t be getting the wrath they deserve and National would have nothing to campaign on. Now you may understand why National keeps its policy plans under wraps.
  
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  December 9, 2022 8:55am
  - alloytoo
    
    “Undoing the damage” is a great policy position for right now.
    
    It forces Labour to “guess” National policy to attack and National can gauge policy approval with very little risk.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:21am
  - Nickc2
    
    What will Labour’s Election bribe be next year:
    
    a. Free Dental Care for everyone,
    b. Wiping Student Debt, or
    c. Other?
    
    19 0
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    December 9, 2022 9:33am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I’m guessing a massive ramp up in payments to middle New Zealand. Inflation is the key issue.
      
      Yesterday I paid $7 for celery. Grapes were $14 per kg. From the USA.
      
      Memo to Jacinda: All food production and distribution depends on diesel and fertiliser made from natural gas. Thanks a bunch.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:01am
      - Sacha
        
        lol, for a good percentage of the population celery and grapes simply don’t feature on the weekly shopping list.
        
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        December 9, 2022 11:58am
      - kowtow
        
        Ramp up payments = more inflation.
        
        Yes, let’s do this !
        
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        December 9, 2022 12:18pm
    - rockape
      
      Almost certainly more welfare. The only people they haven’t bribed so far are pensioners. What h out for a big pension rise and more for working for families.
      
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      December 9, 2022 10:04am
    - MCōs
      
      Free, or subsidized, dental care would suit me just fine whichever party made the promise, though ACT is highly unlikely to break with their austerity policies to even give it a thought.
      However it takes more than that to win an election.
      
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      December 9, 2022 12:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “Luxon will be getting the headlines and Jacinda won’t.”
    She will be spewing. We will see the part of her that only happens when there are no cameras or mics. It will not be pretty.
    Can’t wait, bring it!
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:40am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember the media are being paid for their propaganda.
    He who pays the Piper calls the Tunes – too easy.
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:15pm
- rouppe
  
  Do not rule out a Michael Cullen/Helen Clark Toll Holdings move.
  
  If it is abundantly apparent that they’re going to lose they could use their absolute majority to do just about anything a few weeks out from the election.
  
  I know you’re going to say it’s already apparent that they’re going to lose, but 9 months is a long time
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Previous to that, what did Palmer and Moore do?
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:02am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Agree – there will be 2 or 3 make of break policies. I would not even rule out nationalising supermarkets, which would have had me laughed at 6 months ago.
    
    Free dental care would be odds on.
    
    Not sure about writing off student loans. They risk pissing off a bunch of 30s and 40s folks who paid them off.
    
    One of the first tests will be the 25 cents fuel excise that is due to reimposed on 31 January. It is bad timing – the holidays are over – kids are just back at school. There are often a lot of expenses at that time, and bam petrol is up by 30 cents. Can’t see them doing it.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:07am
    - rouppe
      
      They might put the fuel tax back on petrol, put RUC back up for the smallest category (under 3500kg) and leave public transport fares half price.
      
      The RUC is tricky cause that then captures a bunch of delivery vehicles as well as private vehicles.
      
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      December 9, 2022 11:00am
      - lemuzz
        
        EV owners should be paying the same RUC as Diesel owners. Mileage related in advance. Ever since Cindy bought her Tesla, she hasn’t paid RUC’s
        
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        December 9, 2022 12:44pm
    - marcw
      
      Maybe they will compromise, up in 10 cent increments spread over 6 – 9 months. That would be my way of getting past the unpopular move which I can’t see us avoiding eventually.
      
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      December 9, 2022 12:16pm
    - Ipanema69
      
      Hi Benedict
      
      I am picking student loan forgiveness.
      
      You are right that it risks alienating those that have paid them off. However statistically i think it is more likely that those who have paid off loans will not be voting L/G in anycase.
      
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      December 9, 2022 12:48pm
      - Paulus
        
        My ex Uni Granddaughter who has a good Public Service job now expects still to vote Labour – has such Social type degrees, but in no way would do so as she is just about finishing her Student Loan and has worked hard to get rid of it.
        
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        December 9, 2022 1:18pm
      - rouppe
        
        I can’t see the point of that.
        
        Student loans are interest free. How does it help in a high inflation, cost of living crisis to forgive debt for (let’s face it) the richer cohort of people?
        
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        December 9, 2022 10:43pm
- Warren
  
  The bribes are already stacking up on the table with more being talked about.
  Jacinda Ardern talks 2022 and Labours ideas for 2023.
  Jacinda Ardern mulls lifting incomes with Tax Credits but Tax cuts could be a while away, she says from April 2023 Tax Credits will increase $9.00 a week for the eldest child and $7.00 for subsequent children.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jacinda-ardern-mulls-lifting-incomes-with-tax-credits-but-tax-cuts-could-be-a-while-away/DP3V4S6ZCNBZZACLRQBBQ4NMJE/
  I am a pensioner so really we don’t pay rent because we are freehold and we live quite comfortably because my wife works and wants to do 20 years in her job of employment before she retires. But I must ask this question there is a lot of pensioners out there living on the bones of their arse so when will the Government step into helping them by increasing the pension after all they have paid their share of tax to give the unemployed a wage and whether Labour like it or not that is over 350,000 that do no type of paid work daily.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:05am
  - rouppe
    
    Can’t because that would also give it to the millionaires claiming the pension which is why she’s going the lifting WFF route not the tax cut route
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:03am
- Paulus
  
  But beware of the more damage that Ardern and Mahuta family can do in the next 10 months.
  Labour still have a majority vote in the House until the election.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:40am
kowtow

Last night [email protected] made a post about Plod pretending to do a consultation on firearms fees .

From their document ;

‘ We want to hear from iwi/Māori, as partners under Te Tiriti o Waitangi.’

They are not ‘partners” , there are no partners .

How do regime agencies keep getting such fundamental constitutional issues so very very wrong . And deliberately.

Looks like disinformation to me.
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December 9, 2022 8:47am
- Nickc2
  
  If BS is repeated often enough, the MSM publishes it as fact.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:42am
  - rouppe
    
    Also, they are required to put that in. They really don’t have a choice
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:04am
Surely Knott

Tactical Voting. Always risky but a few thoughts..

1. Northland. Labour won Northland by a slim margin of 163 votes beating Matt King for National now Democracy NZ. Since then Labour have lost popularity. In 2017 Matt King won his seat with nearly double labours vote. Could Matt King win Northland and get a seat? It swings quite wildly in the last two elections.

2. Waiariki Electorate got Maori Party two seats in parliament. The gap between Rawiti (Maori Party) and Tamati (labour) was only 800 votes. For those with co-governance concerned would you prefer to see Maori Party bringing 2 mps to parliament, a whole party and potential coalition partner for someone, as well as getting a large voice in the media, or simply one extra labour mp.

Tauranga overlapping the Waiariki Electorate is a Nat/Act stronghold with an 8,000 vote lead over labour/no greens running. in that electorate. If you have Maori descent and live in Tauranga voting in the Maori electorate could swing the vote.
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December 9, 2022 8:50am
- rockape
  
  Matt King and his party currently polling 0.3% so dont think he will be doing much.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:06am
- Cassandra
  
  Memo to National: bring back Matt King, “all is forgiven”.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:39am
  - MCōs
    
    Matt King burned his bridges with the Nats.
    I doubt they would see him as any more than a liability now.
    
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    December 9, 2022 12:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

There’s been little comment here on the proposed restructuring of NZ Science Research:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/govt-outlines-biggest-makeover-of-science-sector-in-30-years/DYMC2YA7W5EWBDUCLLJKSW6HXM/

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2022/12/07/how-the-treaty-of-waitangi-is-determining-the-direction-in-which-state-funded-science-will-be-taken-or-dragged-back/#more-19353
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December 9, 2022 8:52am
- RockyJ
  
  Oh dear God. Now science will have to accept that taniwhas exist. Everything is being messed up. National and Act will have a huge clean up job.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:02am
- cmm
  
  Well for sure science won’t be the winner here.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:20am
- westernScientist
  
  More centralisation. It is effectively going to mean that the CRIs which make a substantial portion of their incomes from contracted work to industries (P&F and AgR) will be subsidising the ones which push out a lot of so called ‘public good’ likes of ESR and land care, and no doubt some new spiritual guidance institute that will consult the various gods. Ultimately it will result in the industry funding drying up because what they want done either will be prohibitively expensive or the new management structure will not let it.
  Best case scenario is that the next government privatises the useful ones, or drop costs of entry into the market enough some new ones start out of the private sector. Worst case, all the good scientists and techs leave to other countries, and the knowledge is lost completely to Australia, and further abroad. While there are some private institutes, it would be very hard to set them up in the current environment because of the effective subsidies from the tax payer to the CRIs and universities, even with the ridiculous overhead costs within them. Although a centralised DSIR system may have worked in the 70s, imagination what it would have been doing for the last 5 years?
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:27am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just shocking.
  
  I hope that someone in National is keeping a database of all policies that need to be fixed in the first 100 days. I’ll come up with a list at a discounted fee if someone wants to contact me. 🙂
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:10am
- NothingLeft
  
  National should start a secret register – for public servants who are opposed to debasement of standards in their jobs/profession in the name of Maori wonderfulness and wokery, but are unable to oppose due to the threat to their career and jobs. Just email in short letter with your concerns in order to sign-up. That way they will have a ready list of people to promote (and by elimination those to demote) into positions of authority when they come to power.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:59am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Is that “science”, “THE science™” or “te science”?
  
  Isn’t it great that under Ardern we added two forms of science to the vocabulary? She’s amazballs//
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:46pm
- Jack5
  
  Joseph Conrad would recognise what’s been going on in New Zealand. It’s parallel to the regression from civilisation he described in Heart of Darkness.
  
  Conrad once captained the 350-ton “clipper barque” Otago. And the University of Otago, founded by education-loving Scots before any other NZ university, now requires research projects to be vetted by Ngai Tahu, and as well has race-based entry to its medical school.
  
  This is from the Point of Order article that Maggy Wassilieff points to:
  
  … Canterbury University zoology head Frank Sin had abandoned his research into paua and lobster because Ngai Tahu would not approve it. Tribal spokesman Whiti Reia explained that consultation with Maori was required because “the public in general do not trust scientists”.
  
  Here’s an article on why Maori knowledge is not science. It’s from the Skeptics Society in 1994, and given the Skeptics Society’s current views on Maori knowledge, and the society’s current drift, it’s a pleasant surprise that it’s still accessible:
  
  https://skeptics.nz/journal/issues/32/maori-science
  
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  December 9, 2022 2:03pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Outrageous!!! How does all this stuff sneak under the radar of journalists? Oh, that’s right, it would show co-governance and Maori up in a bad light eh.
    Don’t forget folks, we are funding the PJIF (journalists sludge fund).
    
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    December 9, 2022 2:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

This Government seems to invest mega$$$ on tracking folks who are linked to misinformation/disinformation conspiracy groups, yet is clueless as to the whereabouts of violent gang members

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/130712925/call-for-urgent-stocktake-of-gang-members-in-emergency-housing-as-govt-cant-answer-for-rotorua-motels
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December 9, 2022 9:00am
- RockyJ
  
  There are four government agencies watching us for signs of white supremacy. These are
  1. The Security Intelligence Service
  2. TheDisinformation Project,
  3. The Centre of Research Excellence for Preventing and Countering Violent Extremism 4. The Fixated Threats Assessment Centre.
  
  This government is paranoid.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:06am
  - cmm
    
    It’s all deflection.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:00am
    - Jack5
      
      It’s a damn fight safer and far easier than fighting gangs and knife-wielding thugs who are killing dairy-shop workers in Auckland and murdering Christchurch citizens as they wait for buses or walk their dogs in local parks.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:10pm
- backster
  
  Yes Maggie it confounds me that the Kitteridge woman identifies the almost invisible far right people as potential terrorist threats to our society, but dismisses the threat from the doubling of gang members in the past few years to the extent that they outnumber and out arm the frontline Police. Or is she too frightened to acknowledge it.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:21am
  - artemisia
    
    ‘It’s not in my job description.’ Sits alongside ‘I’m from the government ….”
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:57am
  - Paulus
    
    Kitteridge is leaving the SIS and going to the State Services Commision.
    Another Lady Spy boss required – expect that Ardern will appoint some ex Labour MP/Minister.
    Can think of a couple of names close by.
    
    12 0
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    December 9, 2022 10:43am
- rouppe
  
  I’ve said it before I’ll say it again.
  
  No (anti-social) gang members or prospects permitted in social housing. If any are found, that is grounds for eviction.
  
  The vast majority of problems are caused by (anti-social) gang members or people protected by (anti-social) gang members.
  
  There are plenty of decent people in difficult circumstances that there is no reason to have any (anti-social) gang presence in social housing.
  
  I mean, it’s not called anti-social housing, is it?
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:26am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wave a few million dollars around and you will find the violent gang members.
  
  6 0
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  December 9, 2022 10:07am
- Harry Knuts
  
  To rule Gang members out of social housing is deemed racist. Meanwhile the social harmony and safety of other KO residents that have nothing to do with gangs wear the brunt of this stupid policy.
  Ban the patch for social housing access.
  
  11 1
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  December 9, 2022 10:24am
- kowtow
  
  Months ago it was reported in msm that the CCP was operating a “police station” in Sydney .
  
  My thoughts then were ,if there why not here.
  
  Nek minnit we get a report this week , they are operating one here but unkown where.
  
  Regime response , first we heard of this .
  
  Oh yeah ? What have you been doing since the report on the Sydney one ?
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:19am
- ClanMcleod
  
  “mis” and “disinformation” groups are anyone who disagrees with Ardern and her single source of truth. No different to any other fascist dictatorship ever.
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:53pm
Maggie Pie

What about these disgusting sickos…..

QUEER SEX – FULL REPORT
The Lefts’ Agenda for our kids 🙁

‘Children given dildos and butt-plugs to play with in class’

https://twitter.com/Project_Veritas/status/1600656430151135232
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December 9, 2022 9:01am
- Frank the tank
  
  It’s coming here. Trust me outside of private and integrated schools – it’s coming…….
  
  15 2
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  December 9, 2022 9:16am
- Ghost
  
  Well, at the cost of $40,000 a student they are already screwing over the parents.
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:35am
Littletramp

The left leaning political parties have figured out how to win elections, and if National does not get over itself and get with the game, Labour will get another term.
Covid (probably a happenstance/opportunism catalyst rather than deliberate) gave cover/excuse to allow/encourage postal voting and early voting.
That process change has altered the election game from convincing voters to turnout and vote for your policies on election day , to using the time allowed to gather up and lodge the ballots that are in your favour.
Wake up National – you need a focussed & urgent ground game to find your supporters, collect and lodge their ballots prior to voting day, or you will lose again.
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December 9, 2022 9:08am
- rockape
  
  Parities cannot collect ballots in NZ, you really need to brush up on how voting happens in Nz.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:11am
  - Surely Knott
    
    At local elections they ran one stop shops with Kai and Koha to strategic demographics.
    
    7 0
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    December 9, 2022 10:24am
  - Littletramp
    
    Yes you can – you can actively get your supporters to complete early votes or complete and send in postal ballots (local elections).
    It’s what the activists are doing, rather than waiting for the day and hoping you have convinced enough folk to vote for you.
    
    10 1
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    December 9, 2022 10:38am
  - Cassandra
    
    Parities are?
    
    3 0
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    December 9, 2022 10:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Suggest you check how votes are collected in some parts South Auckland wher people do not have much understanding of the correct language.
    KFC perhaps.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:46am
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Cindy is planning tax credits to middle New Zealanders to steal the 2023 election. No tax cuts, but tax credits. Bye bye Lux bro.
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December 9, 2022 9:09am
- surfing
  
  Seems very mean of her. What about the children in poverty? Do they get nothing?
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:45am
- rouppe
  
  Apart from assuming you’re making all this up 😉 if she did that those eligible would be limited to
  
  * Families earning under $125,000 or individuals under $70,000
  * If you have kids under 16
  * If you have a community services card
  
  Thereby making it a complete nightmare to administer, giving it to anyone self employed via a limited liability company (ie most trades people, surgeons, lawyers), would only take effect on April 1, and be a complete disaster
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:04am
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jacinda-ardern-mulls-lifting-incomes-with-tax-credits-but-tax-cuts-could-be-a-while-away/DP3V4S6ZCNBZZACLRQBBQ4NMJE/
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:06am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Don’t forget the dead people and French backpackers
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You know she tells lies right?
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:15am
  - Paulus
    
    Yes, she tells lies as you can see her lips move.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:47am
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

My spies on the ground in Hamilton West are saying Labour is enjoying a late surge and National is in for a surprise defeat tomorrow.
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December 9, 2022 9:10am
- MCōs
  
  In your dreams
  
  20 1
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  December 9, 2022 9:38am
- tknorriss
  
  Yes, I heard similar.
  
  Apparently voters are partying like crazy due to 3 Waters passing, and are wetting themselves with excitement over the prospect of the TVNZ/RNZ merger.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:27am
- kowtow
  
  i’ll stick my neck out.
  
  Bollocks .
  
  Early postal votes will be the pinkos .( as usual)
  
  Any “late” surge will be the True Blues who traditionally vote on election day .
  
  I imagine the place being a bell wether we should see a reflection of the latest trends in nation wide polling.
  
  Bye bye Cindy .
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:54am
  - tknorriss
    
    SCS always makes posts that take the piss. I don’t know why so many can’t see that and downtick him so much.
    
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    December 9, 2022 12:57pm
    - kevn
      
      @tk… Yes, just go with the opposite viewpoint to SCS comment and you get close to what he/she/they really think.
      
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      December 9, 2022 2:42pm
    - kowtow
      
      No he’s not . See his 909 .
      
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      December 9, 2022 3:13pm
  - Richard
    
    Ideally Labour will be in the 20’s and National wins, and the right bloc get more than 50%. I’ll crack open a bottle of top shelf if that’s the case.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:28pm
I remember when

Climate Change health outcomes:
A considerable amount of concern has been expressed about the affect a 2C increase will have on deaths from heat.
However, at present heat islands result in an increase in temperature several times this amount.
Also the world is becoming increasingly urbanised thus a growing problem.
Should we put more money into reducing heat islands in the short term.
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December 9, 2022 9:21am
- Surely Knott
  
  At the moment I’m more worried about global wetting. Can’t they make it stop. Who do we have to pay. Whose farts are causing this.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:06am
  - kowtow
    
    Dihydrogen oxide is a very potent green house gas .
    
    It should be banned.
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:56am
Rusty

Has anyone read any reviews of the Ist programme of Harry and Megan’s netflex series shown in the US last night ?

Not that I’m going to ever watch it. Disgusting Ginger and the Whinger can make 100 million dollars out of trashing the royal family.

King Charles should strip Harry of every title and cut off all monies to him.
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December 9, 2022 9:24am
- rouppe
  
  On Hosking’s show a reviewer basically called it a let-down. Though maybe the juicy stuff is being left for the second half drop.
  
  Also haven’t watched it
  
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  December 9, 2022 9:57am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Conservative Back Bench MP is trying to put through a private members bill to strip them of their titles.
  
  I don’t think that they will ever be able to show their faces in the UK again.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Something I discovered this week… The Monarch cannot remove titles, only grant them. The King cannot strip Harry and Meghan of their titles “Duke and Duchess of Sussex”. However there is currently a private member’s bill before the UK parliament that would allow the Monarch that power.
  
  https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3289
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:14am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Correct Ben, substantive titles eg: Prince of Wales cannot be revoked by the Monarch, however, generic titles of Prince, Princess, HRH can be (Sarah and Diana both had their Princess|HRH titles revoked by Letters Patent after divorce from Princes of the blood). The Sussex’s cannot have their Dukedom taken away, as it is not really a royal title, it is a peerage (same as marquessate, earldoms, viscountcies, and baronies) and like “Prince of Wales” is considered to be property and is protected from arbitrary revocation by English Law. So Sarah Fergusson is still referred to as Sarah, Duchess of York.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:52am
- Hard Cheese
  
  There’s only so much drama you can wring out of being an ex-Royal, interest in them will wane and they’ll end up appearing on game shows and reality TV to fund their lifestyle. I bet they wish they were back in the UK doing the odd meet-n-greet and waving from the Palace balcony, all paid for by the British taxpayer
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:22am
  - MCōs
    
    I doubt it
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:49am
- Harry Knuts
  
  There’s truth in the saying you can pick your friends but not your family.
  I agree – strip the little fanta-pants of all of his titles.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:29am
Maggie Pie

Twitter experiencing real problems this morning.
Have DM’d Elon for explanation
Will keep you informed…..
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December 9, 2022 9:26am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Our internet has been flakey over the past few days. I was blaming the crap weather.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:04am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Russia.
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:21am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Man of the Year, Zelensky….
      
      2 2
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      December 9, 2022 1:51pm
      - Ghost
        
        Man? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkmI1BHAr8I
        
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        December 9, 2022 1:59pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Alan Wilkinson – Do you finally understand the impact of climate change? This can be fixed by extra taxes.
    
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    December 9, 2022 11:34am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Met Service long range forecasts would be faster. They are always wrong so just forecast crap weather please.
      
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      December 9, 2022 1:13pm
- MCōs
  
  Working fine for me
  https://twitter.com/blackferns/status/1600762359936856064?s=46&t=xqZ-lYHvwFyXYlguREZQRQ
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:22am
rouppe

Transmission Gully already requiring resealing.

“Fresh chip seal roads are susceptible to high rainfall and heavy traffic simultaneously, which Transmission Gully motorway has experienced in the last recent winter and spring.”

They’re trying to make it sound like it was unexpected.

You didn’t account for rain? A multi-billion dollar infrastructure project and you didn’t account for RAIN??.

SH1 has heavy traffic? Holy smokes who would have thought? And you know what, the now SH59 from Plimmerton to Pukerua Bay had the same traffic before TG opened and that didn’t fall to pieces every 8 months.

So why did they choose a clearly unsuitable surface?

No regerts…. (Idiots)
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December 9, 2022 9:51am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Par for the course in this country unfortunately. They plan to fail and succeed.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:07am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Labour must be involved.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:19am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “They said this was “not unexpected or out of the ordinary given the recent heavy rain and traffic loading”.”
  
  I am fairly sure it rains in the UK, Germany and France. I don’t recall their motorways falling to pieces. And they have a hell of a lot more “traffic loading” than Wellington.
  
  My hypothesis is that when a Government normalises telling lies everyone remotely associated with the Government starts lying. Because they think it OK.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “I am fairly sure it rains in the UK, Germany and France. I don’t recall their motorways falling to pieces”
    
    Their motorways don’t fall to pieces because the tarmac surface is applied to a 500-1500mm thick concrete base. Here in New Zealand we pack down a bit of gravel and she’ll be right – on goes the tarmac surface. It’s no wonder the surface is always being replaced. It’s not generally traffic wear. It’s foundation failure.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:55am
    - virtualmark
      
      To be fair, New Zealand moves across the surface of the earth about as fast as your fingernails grow.
      
      So if the roads were built in the European way, on a concrete base, they would (a) not wear out anything like as fast but (b) crack open within a year because of the tectonic drift.
      
      NZ’s roads are built on a more flexible base in order to tolerate our tectonic drift and earthquakes. But we pay for it in that they’re not as hard wearing.
      
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      December 9, 2022 12:35pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Pretty sure California, Japan and Italy get earthquakes etc. Do their roads fall apart?
        
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        December 9, 2022 1:18pm
      - virtualmark
        
        I understand that it’s more to do with the tectonic drift, which is more pronounced here than in those other countries.
        
        But happy to be corrected on that by others with more expertise in this field.
        
        Note: I too agree that our roads are poorly built, and poorly maintained. We should do better.
        
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        December 9, 2022 1:28pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        I would think in Northland the 3m of surface clay that oscillates between dry concrete and wet soup is more of a challenge than plate shifting. Concrete foundations would be more likely to sink than creep though they could slide down hills. An engineer once said Canadian highways have 6ft foundations under them but here they are 18 inches. That seems to square with their performance.
        
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        December 9, 2022 2:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        New Zealand roads also became quite remarkably harder to maintain after the weight limits for large trucks were increased.
        The very large trucks now common since the shrinkage of the rail network do means that our roads wear out much faster than in the 1980s or 1990s.
        Increased spending on maintenance will never be as popular politically as building new highways. And very large roading projects are particularly vulnerable to the project risks described by crackle below.
        
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        December 10, 2022 6:53am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Guess you must be talking about somewhere different from this lot rouppe.
  
  “The new 27 kilometre four-lane motorway joins the Kāpiti Expressway at Mackays Crossing in the north and the Porirua-Johnsonville Motorway at Linden in the south. Transmission Gully is a safer, more resilient, and more reliable way to travel to and from Wellington than the current coastal route.”
  
  https://www.ventia.co.nz/projects/transmission-gully
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:09am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  You can’t beat Wellington on a good day.
  Well other than Christchurch on a good day. Auckland. Napier. Gisborne. Hinds. Dunedin. Wanganui. New Plymouth. Wanaka. Greymouth. Elsthorpe. Foxton. Pahia. Cust. Te Awamutu. Tekapo. Aria. Hokitika. And it pains me to say it, but the villages of the damned, Hamilton and Palmerston North. And anywhere else you can think of in NZ that is not Wellington.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:21am
  - zulumonster
    
    Very difficult to argue .. however you went too far with Palmerston North …
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:24pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Yeah zulu, thought that wind swept, miserable hole might be a bit edgy.
      
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      December 9, 2022 1:35pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s a cliche
    But nonetheless it’s true
    You can’t beat Wellington on a good day
    But they just might beat you.
    
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    December 10, 2022 6:55am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  rouppe – Nine long years of underfunding by the previous National gummit….
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:35am
  - rouppe
    
    Five years of failure, mate.
    
    Five years of failure.
    
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    December 9, 2022 10:47pm
- crackle
  
  This is a brief outline of how it goes with many infrastructure projects in NZ.
  
  1.Project is drawn up and budget allocated.
  2.Goes out for tender costs are way higher than anticipated.
  3. Officials change the specs and adjust price in conjuction with selected contractor. 4.Now meets budget so gets signed off.
  5. Contractor says this isn’t going to last etc, Officials say doesn’t matter build it to spec keep to the budget and when it falls apart we’ll fix it using the maintenance budget.
  
  Basically it’s a trick to stop politicians and beuacrats looking bad when projects run over budget.
  
  It’s common and have personal experience with a local body.
  
  Sadly it always costs the tax / rate payer far more than it should.
  
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  December 9, 2022 1:54pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Beyond farcical.
  
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  December 9, 2022 1:58pm
I remember when

Harry and Meghan:
If you have to humiliate yourself like this to make money –
why would you bother!
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December 9, 2022 10:14am
Opie

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/12/08/jacindas-manic-ministry/

Chris Trotter’s electrocution of the government.

Worth a read as they start to turn on themselves.
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December 9, 2022 10:23am
- Jack5
  
  An interesting snippet from the Chris Trotter article linked to by Opie:
  
  Absent Winston Peters and his white-knuckle grip on the political hand-brake, Labour lost little time in showing the country just how important NZ First’s restraining influence had been. Over the next two years, convinced they were ten-feet-tall and bulletproof, Ardern’s government proved itself unsafe at any speed.
  
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  December 9, 2022 2:24pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Very nice!
    
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    December 9, 2022 2:51pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  The last paragraph is very funny and dead accurate.
  
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  December 9, 2022 4:34pm
Prince

Agree re her refusal to meet even a small group of the protestors – terrible decision that had (and has) wide ranging consequences.
But re Lynch’s interview, I presume we will get, over the next two weeks, similar softish interviews with Luxon, Seymour etc. I’m OK with that.
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December 9, 2022 10:25am
john1234

Wow, Media Council gets it right and pans Newshub for being a brainless repeater:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2022/12/media-council-upholds-complaint-against-newshub-for-health-story-based-on-an-unverified-social-media-post.html
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December 9, 2022 10:26am
- Cinematic
  
  Thanks for sharing.
  
  Love the part referring to ‘creating’ a story.
  
  Reporting is out, creative writing is in.
  
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  December 9, 2022 10:44am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Interviewing the typewriter is a technique that, oddly enough, predates the invention of the typewriter.
    
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    December 10, 2022 6:57am
Maggie Pie

QUESTION…

Bought a really expensive Top last week from a boutique in Commercial Bay.
Was just about to chuck it in the front-loader and thort I’d better check the ‘Care-Instructions’. All the usual guff on the label, but across the bottom it says….
“Designed in Italy. Made in Bangladesh”

Does that make me a bad person?
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December 9, 2022 10:54am
- Keith White
  
  It makes you a person who does not spend more than you needed to, if you wanted that style of consumer-good. And why should you not? This is not yet NZ a la former USSR. Although the pace of decline to that nadir of consumer choice, is accelerating…
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:21am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Maggie Pie – Answer is Yes, as long you acknowledge poverdy.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:37am
- cmm
  
  Naah Maggie of course that doesn’t make you a bad person.
  
  Without your support some Bangladeshi household would have had three less grains of rice for dinner.
  
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  December 9, 2022 5:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

When will parents realise the damage that Ardern & Co wrought on their children’s education?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/480397/covid-19-impact-on-schools-documents-warn-of-significant-risk-to-learning
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December 9, 2022 11:01am
- All_on_Red
  
  There is also the issue of impaired behavioral development due to mask wearing and young children not being able to see peoples faces.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:46am
  - Richard
    
    I didn’t make our kids wear them, they didnt want to anyway. The first time I saw a bunch of 5 & 6 year olds wearing masks I knew it was a complete waste of time. They were pulling masks off each other and touching their faces ….fooling around being kids. And even when school made the seniors wear masks and wouldn’t let parents onto the school grounds for about 4 months (I was pissed off and let them know) it still ripped through school like a hot knife through butter.
    
    They also diabled the water fountains for most of the year which is just nuts. Our kids (juniors) have had covid twice, caught it at school most likely despite all their ‘protective measures.
    
    The whole thing was a giant virtue signaling exercise and kids learning and development has suffered because of it and we haven’t even mention lockdowns.
    
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    December 9, 2022 9:50pm
- Bob
  
  When will parents realise…..
  Maggy most of today’s young parents are themselves products of the Lange ‘Tomorrow’s Schools” regime, taught what to think, not how to think. They do not have the capability to think for themselves, thus cannot recognise ‘the damage….
  
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  December 9, 2022 3:04pm
- Cinematic
  
  Closing schools was a sick twisted experiment. It has failed on every count. How many deaths have been avoided by the lockdown madness? Not one, a few delayed but not one saved.
  
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  December 9, 2022 3:22pm
Maggie Pie

CAUTION – some may find this upsetting

Protestor hung in Iran…. “for blocking the street”

https://twitter.com/MozFrame/status/1600898729568935937

Others arrested at the same time face similar fate.
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December 9, 2022 11:19am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  When the wrong people have the guns.
  
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  December 9, 2022 11:55am
  - kowtow
    
    Where’s the outrage from the usual suspects , the ones who constantly wanted no dealing with South Africa over race separation.
    
    Oh that’s right , they’re in power now and are desperate to sell dairy goods to the bastards.
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:22pm
- Cinematic
  
  Iran is currently controlled by a bunch of sickos and depraved lunatics. I say currently because their end is nigh and it will be brutal.
  
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  December 9, 2022 3:20pm
jgw739

Just spent the past two hours at my 15 year olds Junior High School Awards as he was to be a recipient.

It was very frustrating and a tad offensive – 45 minutes of songs, prayers and speeches without one word of English. Not one bloody word.

The actual awards were a bit better, but any chance that they could shoehorn in some Maori, they did. There seemed to be about 10 awards given for excellence in Te Reo to every award for English.

I took my boy home before the closing bit which the schedule tells me are just like the beginning. No thanks.
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December 9, 2022 11:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  That is pathetic. Most parents would have been seething. But if they say anything – “Racist!”
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:08pm
- kowtow
  
  Prayers ?
  
  Is it a private religious school?’
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:10pm
  - jgw739
    
    Not at all. Just your run of the mill state school where they teach kids using a language they don’t understand, for some reason.
    
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    December 9, 2022 5:53pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Kids being trained to conform instead of think. We’d better hope it induces rebellion rather than conformity and that rebellion is not limited to truancy.
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:11pm
  - kowtow
    
    “Rebellion” only ok /’cool ‘ if it’s against the Ancien Regime.
    
    Now that the Wef crowd are in charge it’s not cool ,it’s divisive ,destructive etc
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:19pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Not quite ditto but – welcome to the new world. Figure the only ones that understood more than a little of what was said were the teachers – although to be fair that’s probably not correct either, their pronunciation was appalling. (don’t think all those “teacher only days” have done much good)
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:27pm
  - Yabster
    
    Teachers the most woke left profession in NZ?
    
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    December 9, 2022 1:31pm
- MCōs
  
  Last evening one of my granddaughters schools had an end of year cultural evening.
  The roll is about 300 with about 6 pakeha. About 30% Māori, 55% Pasifika and the rest Asians etc.
  So there was a lot of enthusiastic performances and the crowd really got into it.
  Prize giving next week.
  
  Back in my primary school day a cultural evening would have comprised Irish Sea shanties and some Hail Marys, with a blessing from the Parish Priest Fr Stapleton
  
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  December 9, 2022 3:05pm
  - jgw739
    
    MCos. Glad you had a good time, it can be enjoyable seeing any well performed production live.
    Awards ceremonies should be about recognition of achievement, minus length sections that are unintelligible to most people present.
    
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    December 9, 2022 6:12pm
- MCōs
  
  Last evening one of my granddaughters schools had an end of year cultural evening.
  The roll is about 300 with about 6 pakeha. About 30% Māori, 55% Pasifika and the rest Asians etc.
  So there was a lot of enthusiastic performances and the crowd really got into it.
  Prize giving next week.
  
  Back in my primary school day a cultural evening would have comprised Irish Sea shanties and some Hail Marys, with a blessing from the Parish Priest
  
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  December 9, 2022 4:18pm
Benedict Yu

So on Monday, some workers turned up in my street with graders and ripped up the surface. I’m guessing they are intending to resurface. Instead, they made a hell of a mess. Sprayed a bunch of stones everywhere. On Tuesday they packed up leaving their mess. Not seen since. I suppose they will return one day to finish the job.

Welcome to the world of road maintenance in New Zealand.
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December 9, 2022 12:07pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  We had that on our back road about a month ago. Ripped up just before bad weather and then go slow and dirty till it cleared.
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:14pm
- MCōs
  
  Don’t get that in Auckland now that Wayne Brown is the big cheese.
  
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  December 9, 2022 1:42pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/we-are-still-not-getting-it-this-is-a-coup/
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/How-Maori-get-eternal-cash-flow-from-3-waters-2-1.pdf
Where are we on this flow diagram?
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December 9, 2022 12:33pm
Maggie Pie

Unless we’re playing Interclub, I very rarely wear make-up to tennis.

At least everybody still recognises me…..

https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/1600980122282205184
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December 9, 2022 12:34pm
rouppe

The government has entered into a “partnership” with Rotorua Council and Te Awawa.

In the accord agreement:

“Te Arawa beliefs and ideologies must be given “mana” and applied as directed by Te Arawa

Wow… Te Arawa beliefs and idelologies…

That sounds a lot like a Te Mana o Te Wai statement. Te Arawa could say “only Te Arawa Maori can access this” and instantly any non-Maori needy are cut out.

This is disgraceful
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December 9, 2022 12:38pm
- rouppe
  
  Not only that, but in the definitions is:
  
  Ngāti Whakaue Mandated Representatives means, for the purpose of this Accord, Lauren James, Tina Leach, Norma Sturley, Tamati Coffey and Segina Te Ahuahu who were mandated at hui a Iwi of Ngāti Whakaue at Tamatekapua on 25 September 2022 and then again on 20 November 2022 to lead and represent Ngāti Whakaue on housing and homeless issues with the Crown and Rotorua Lakes Council
  
  It’s Tamati Coffey an MP? Isn’t that a full-time job? Isn’t it a conflict of interest to be a member of one Party to the agreement – the Crown – AND a member of another Party to the agreement – Ngati Whakaue?
  
  Unbelievable
  
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  December 9, 2022 12:53pm
  - Swifty
    
    Where the Whakaue?
    
    12 0
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    December 9, 2022 1:36pm
    - kevn
      
      @Swifty… aka Vegas.
      
      7 0
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      December 9, 2022 2:15pm
      - Swifty
        
        Just in case I was a bit obscure – it is an old joke, I’ve known of it since the 70s and I’d be sure it’s a lot older than that.
        
        It’s a play on “where the fuck are we?”
        
        I know where the fuck are the Whakaue. They’re in Rotorua.
        
        🙂
        
        3 0
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        December 9, 2022 5:34pm
- Nickc2
  
  So the Govt is to build a bunch of houses in Rotorua and move the ferals out of the Motels and into these houses. Has Megan Woods got a Black Belt in Slum Creation or something?
  In the interest of Co-Governance, shouldn’t the Maori part of the ‘Co-‘ be building houses for their own? Oh, no, there’s nothing in the agreement about that. No matter, Whitey’ll build and pay for dem eh?
  
  13 0
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  December 9, 2022 1:40pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    The objective is to build affordable housing. But everything is affordable if someone else is paying.
    
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    December 9, 2022 2:12pm
lemuzz

Does anyone know if Hillside Railway workshops are back up running or is it just another pipe dream?
9 0
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December 9, 2022 12:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

One by one Elon Musk removes the debris from Twitter. If this keeps up I might sign up. The Dems don’t like this. The Bidens are getting nervous. So is Killary.
https://spacexmania.com/he-was-exited-from-twitter-today-elon-musk-fires-twitters-lawyer-over-suppressing-an-expose-on-hunter-bidens-laptop/
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December 9, 2022 1:04pm
- NothingLeft
  
  media always seems to run a few days behind the news on twitter.
  
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  December 9, 2022 3:12pm
Ghost

Should never have come to this, hard working family

A Hungarian family whose residency application was rejected by Immigration New Zealand (INZ) can now remain after ministerial intervention.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/130715998/hungarian-family-given-42-days-to-leave-the-country-can-now-stay
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December 9, 2022 1:20pm
- greybeard
  
  The only reason the govt caved in was due to their bloody awful polling at present: they will do anything to counter that.
  
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  December 9, 2022 1:58pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Looks like the local mp and the relevant minister have been shamed into action by this little broohaha.
  
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  December 9, 2022 2:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Thanks Ghost, I have just come across your comment from yesterday.
  This Family have been fucked around for 5 years. Typical of this Govt. Pass the buck to someone else and the Family goes through the same questions. % or more people doing one persons’ job.
  I see it was Twyford who got involved. Congratulations Twyford, you finally got something right.
  Now the Family can run their business and enjoy NZ. Maybe get permanent residency, citizenship, and vote!
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:18am
MCōs

Yesterday the Iran government executed the first of the protesters on death row.
https://twitter.com/mattberg1977/status/1600893042407264257?s=61&t=aUBh0uUPRL5jgGLOsRJ3ZA
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December 9, 2022 1:39pm
Maggie Pie

Here we go…. 😀

TWITTERFILES Pt2

https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1601008766861815808
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December 9, 2022 1:52pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  The Left is hard at work spraying foam on that one, Maggie. Funny how “Twitter is a private company that can moderate how it likes” stops applying after Musk buys it?
  
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  December 9, 2022 2:32pm
- virtualmark
  
  Not a secret. Not hidden. Well explained at the time.
  
  https://twitter.com/juliacarriew/status/1601024360432603136
  
  So far the “Twitter files” have been a complete bust. I was open to the idea that Elon might have found bad behaviour. But so far it just looks like the regular content moderation that any social media company has to do.
  
  The main takeaway here is that many of Elon’s followers aren’t used to (very legally conservative) corporate environments and behaviours.
  
  For example: Tesla makes many of its customers, and nearly all of its staff, sign NDAs. Is that a conspiracy? A freedom of speech issue? Or just fairly normal US corporate behaviour given the litigious nature of the US? I’m sure I could hype up a story of Tesla’s NDAs for customers complaining about poor build quality that would read much more negatively than any of the Twitter files so far.
  
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  December 9, 2022 2:57pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Uhuh
    Conservatives Bad and must be suppressed but Pedo’s are Ok on old Twitter
    Got it.
    https://hotair.com/david-strom/2022/12/05/pedophiles-finally-being-kicked-off-of-twitter-n515701
    Its amazing you think nothing of the double standard.
    
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    December 9, 2022 3:23pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Don’t put false words in my mouth.
      
      You have a long history of wilfully distorting what others write here. Mainly because you seem incapable of logical argument.
      
      1 12
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      December 9, 2022 3:34pm
  - virtualmark
    
    For all you Elmo fanbois sharpening the tines on your pitchfork about the Twitter files …
    
    Bari Weiss intro-ing the “Twitter files pt2” today: “A new TwitterFiles investigation reveals that teams of Twitter employees build blacklists, prevent disfavoured tweets from trending, and actively limit the visibility of entire accounts or even trending topics – all in secret, without informing users.”
    
    Terrible behaviour right?
    
    Elon Musk three weeks ago: “Negative/hate tweets will be max deboosted & demonetised … you won’t find the tweet unless you specifically seek it out”
    
    So do we still think that’s terrible behaviour? Because Elon’s approach is just the same as what Twitter was already doing. Except Elon’s worked out how to make you angry about other people.
    
    Elon, and Trump’s, superpower is that they’ve worked out how to make you angry, mainly by telling you lies that you never think the question.
    
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    December 9, 2022 3:32pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      I’m waiting to hear complaints from those Musk has banned unfairly compared with those banned prior. Please enlighten us.
      
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      December 9, 2022 3:52pm
      - virtualmark
        
        I don’t care who he bans or doesn’t ban. It’s his company, he can do what he likes with it.
        
        But, my simple observation is that if he bans all the libtards, as many here hope he will, then he’ll just turn Twitter into another Gab, Parler or Truth Social. And none of those three businesses is thriving. But it’s his money and he’s free to do whatever he likes with it.
        
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        December 9, 2022 4:02pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Well, no. My expectation is he won’t ban political opinions, merely illegal and bot activity. And be successful and a substantial improvement.
        
        5 1
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        December 9, 2022 6:09pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Yet, depending on which datasource you use, somewhere between 40% and 75% of Elon Musk’s own followers are bots.
        
        So if he’s going to ban bots why not start at home?
        
        Respectfully Alan … most of the Kiwiblog commentary on things like Twitter and Elon doesn’t have a lot of logic. Seems a lot of credulous people here cheering for Elon while not questioning any of his inconsistencies.
        
        1 6
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        December 9, 2022 6:40pm
  - virtualmark
    
    As I said above … Twitter’s behaviour is so secret that they wrote a blog post about it as far back as mid-2018.
    
    https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2018/Setting-the-record-straight-on-shadow-banning.html
    
    Elon’s “Twitter files” are a yawn. If you’re riled up about this you clearly lack real-world experience.
    
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    December 9, 2022 3:37pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      That blog post in no way describes the political sabotage Twitter was clearly indulging. In fact it denies it.
      
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      December 9, 2022 6:14pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Provide examples of this “political sabotage”.
        
        Because so far Elon doesn’t seem able to. And he’s on the inside.
        
        1 5
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        December 9, 2022 6:34pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Babylonbee was a high profile one. Weiss gave several today.
        
        5 1
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        December 9, 2022 6:52pm
      - virtualmark
        
        The examples Weiss gave today show right-wing voices getting special kid-glove treatment.
        
        Decisions on whether to “shadow ban” them were not left to the regular content moderators, but were elevated to the CEO, Head of Legal and Head of Content Moderation. Understandable, in that these were decisions that could have more blowback on the company. But careful special treatment.
        
        And so far I haven’t seen Weiss show any examples of where any shadow bans were improper or influenced by politicians.
        
        1 5
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        December 9, 2022 7:56pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    She doesn’t seem keen for me to read that link. What does it say?
    
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    December 9, 2022 3:41pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Yes, odd, she’s changed that tweet so that only people who actively follow her can see it (I saw it via a re-tweet)
      
      She was talking about how she was one of a group of journos who attended a press conference at Twitter in 2018 where they outlined this approach of de-emphasising tweets they thought were inappropriate.
      
      So not denying that that was what Twitter did. Just pointing out that it was in no way a secret or hidden practice.
      
      2 3
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      December 9, 2022 3:47pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        I’ve followed a decent number of “IDW” figures; intellectuals, academics and generally what non-rabbid far-left would consider nothing more than advocates for liberalism, and funnily enough mostly from left wing backgrounds (ie Democrat voters till recent times). None of them advocating ‘hate’ or mistreatment of other humans, mostly just resisting social/economic revolutions that are being foist upon us by unelected elites, and fighting to retain freedoms that the incestuous left-wing authoritarians, big tech and govt cabal (neo-fascists by any other name) are trying to trample.
        
        All of these folks have been surreptitiously nobbled by twitter, and more overtly by google/youtube because they are critical of recent ill-founded non-science and excessive (bought media and politicians) control by boards of a few multinational companies (tech and pharma).
        
        Elon has finally given us a peak under the hood and it has been confirmed to be just as rotten and corrupted as we had thought. Government directed censorship via their jack-booted toadies in tech. The left will howl if this machinery is ever turned on them, so it is clear it needs to be permanently torn down.
        
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        December 9, 2022 4:57pm
      - virtualmark
        
        So why hasn’t Elon publicly highlighted cases like that? He could just give a few examples where he shows how the previous Twitter management were too harsh/biased/corrupt in their assessment of who to de-boost. But he hasn’t.
        
        Maybe, just maybe, hear me out here … maybe he doesn’t have any good examples?
        
        Because if he did he’d be taking them to Fox News, not Bari Weiss.
        
        I have no doubt that the moderation slant will change under Musk compared to under Dorsey. That’s fine, Musk has paid US$44bn for that privilege. But so far I haven’t seen anything that says the previous team were doing anything improper or illegal.
        
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        December 9, 2022 5:18pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Why would he take them to Fox instead of Weiss who is a respected ex Progressive journalist without Fox’s political allegiances? He passed the data to journalists to do journalism. He’s busy running companies.
        
        5 1
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        December 9, 2022 6:20pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Because Fox News is a much bigger audience, and that audience is gagging for stories about how the terrible Democrats are censoring right-wing speech.
        
        If this is the big proven story that you appear to think it is then why leave it with a second-tier journalist with a limited following???
        
        1 5
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        December 9, 2022 6:37pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Fox can get it from Substack along with everyone else.
        
        5 0
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        December 9, 2022 6:54pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        … as indeed it has, vm. I went and found it for you seeing you are missing it. It fills in some of your other questions too.
        
        https://www.foxnews.com/media/elon-musks-second-installment-twitter-files-reveals-secret-blacklists-bari-weiss-reports
        
        4 0
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        December 9, 2022 7:47pm
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Answers your question – Musk released the data to Weiss on the condition first release of her reports are on Twitter.
        
        Seems sensible. Twitter publishes its own history good and bad.
        
        7 1
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        December 9, 2022 7:57pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Can’t say that I know enough about Dr Bhattacharya – I’m not familiar with his stuff.
        
        But I can understand why Twitter might be cautious about Dan Bongino and Charlie Kirk.
        
        Personally I think there’s a lot less of “we’re muting this voice because politics” and a lot more of “we’re muting this voice because advertisers”. Elon’s moved the needle on those content moderation sweetspots, which has made many here happy, but it’s cost him with the advertisers. Remember that Twitter is a business, not a political party.
        
        1 6
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        December 9, 2022 8:03pm
      - virtualmark
        
        But Alan, the deal Musk struck with Taibbi and Weiss smacks of “I’m going with people I can control”. Which in turn makes the results a little suspect.
        
        I’d much rather that he’d just publicly and openly released the material and allowed all media and researchers access.
        
        1 5
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        December 9, 2022 8:05pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Here’s another top tech reporter, Mike Masnick, who writes TechDirt:
    
    “So we’ve now had two long threads, presented as if they were revealing some big conspiracy, that basically, just… confirmed a bunch of things the company had already said publicly, and showed pretty standard (boring) trust & safety work.
    
    What a world.
    
    Like, I’ll be honest, I had actually *expected* a lot more. Someone somewhere must have said something stupid. But, so far… um… nothing. I mean, honestly, if someone leaked my own internal discussion about *fighting spam* on @techdirt I think it would look WAY more damning.”
    
    It’s a nothingburger bust. Elon’s fans are angry. The rest of us are just rolling our eyes.
    
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    December 9, 2022 5:12pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Elon’s fans are happy. It’s the Lefty Progressives who are feeling the unaccustomed chill.
      
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      December 9, 2022 8:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Shadowbanning. Musk is fixing it, also fixing the pedo involvement. Dems are shitting themselves.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:22am
Maggie Pie

CNN reporting Sleepy Joe called Britney Griner to welcome her/it home from Russia….

https://twitter.com/kruano447/status/1600959846639083523
4 3
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December 9, 2022 2:07pm
- MCōs
  
  What do you mean ‘it’?
  She’s a particularly tall (6’-9) black American basketball player with a wife & a number of tattoos.
  
  6 5
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  December 9, 2022 4:35pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hi Cos! Ment to ask you before whether you got the Blue-Tick?
    
    4 0
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    December 9, 2022 4:40pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    How very dare you presume pronouns. For all we know it’s Apache Attack Helicopter.
    
    5 1
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    December 9, 2022 7:24pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “It” is a female lesbian. The US traded a big time arms trader for her. Crazy Democrats.
  
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  December 10, 2022 10:25am
crackle

Fuck me Phil Twford has finally done something useful https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/familys-residency-battle-phil-twyford-uses-ministerial-discretion-to-grant-right-to-stay/7SGD4U2BCZFIHPIKCFIICHYN3E/
13 0
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December 9, 2022 2:07pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  The outcome was never in doubt. Obviously a stage-managed event for months. Put the poor family thru hell to make Twitford come out smelling like roses.
  Predicted it here ages ago. Didn’t fool us for one moment!
  
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  December 9, 2022 2:32pm
  - mandk
    
    Regardless, I couldn’t be more pleased for that family.
    
    NZ needs more like them.
    
    13 0
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    December 9, 2022 3:16pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Totally agree!
      Although not according to the Member-for-Tijuana.
      Ricardo wants to see a lot more migrants with disabilities.
      
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      December 9, 2022 3:29pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Ricardo needs to realize that despite him slipping through, the immigration system is designed to weed out idiots.
        
        1 0
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        December 10, 2022 7:31am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  I’m sure he’ll go and have a lie down now.
  
  9 0
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  December 9, 2022 2:34pm
- greybeard
  
  Pil Twyford was instructed by Helen Clark to do something positive for the rapidly-declining Labour Government.
  
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  December 9, 2022 6:01pm
rjay

Stuff asks readers what they thought of the government’s covid response. Answers explain why they are still polling at 33%+.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300759343/difficult-conversations-what-did-you-think-of-the-governments-covid19-response-measures
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December 9, 2022 2:50pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  a) moderated; b) Stuff readers; c) restricted to work hours.
  
  = selective responses.
  
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  December 9, 2022 3:49pm
  - kowtow
    
    $tuff polls will be self selecting from the bottom of the gene pool .
    
    Don’t click and help to bring on their inevitable demise .
    
    9 0
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    December 9, 2022 4:05pm
  - [email protected]
    
    Yes, moderated so we can only guess the real response. Perhaps KiwiBlog can ask the same question early tomorrow and we can get our own moderated response.
    
    It would be interesting to compare both results to a similar un-moderated question on ysb.co.nz.
    
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    December 9, 2022 6:14pm
- Inandout
  
  rjay, the ‘we would all be dead without the vaccine’ is so closed minded. Someone behind the scenes is no doubt rubbing their hands at the next item on the agenda of subjugation.
  
  10 2
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  December 9, 2022 4:08pm
Alan Wilkinson

Herald reporting Police have lowered their speed camera settings to boost their statistics and revenue.

Never mind the ram raids and gang crime, look at our speed camera profits.
23 1
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December 9, 2022 4:04pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  “Read my lips, no new taxes”
  
  – PM Jacinda Ardern. (Sept 14 2017)
  
  Well what’s that if it’s not a…. ‘new tax’.
  My partner’s mum has never received sooo many speeding tickets in the mail than she has in this past year 🙁
  
  15 0
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  December 9, 2022 4:24pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Yea, I got pinged on Glenfield Road about two weeks ago doing 60 klm/hr downhill in a 50 klm/hr zone. It cost $30.00. I didn’t know the 10 klm/h margin of error had been removed. Who did?
    This is revenue raising, pure and simple!
    
    5 1
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    December 9, 2022 7:23pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Lucky you. Downhill on Old Albany Highway just past Bush Rd. 63, and it cost me $80
      
      2 0
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      December 10, 2022 10:29am
- kowtow
  
  Looks like they didn’t consult anyone , not even their so called Treaty partners , why ever not .
  
  9 0
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  December 9, 2022 4:32pm
MCōs

Shoot out in Chinatown
https://twitter.com/khaosodenglish/status/1601045549947715584?s=61&t=cslCxb8202prlov7-vcWrw
7 0
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December 9, 2022 4:19pm
Hugh Jarse

Labour have been in government for five years. 3 under the supervision of Winston Peters when they really couldn’t do too much harm. In the 2 years of being able to govern alone they have turned themselves into the worst government we have seen in our lifetimes and made themselves unelectable. They haven’t even been able to hold it together for a full term before the wheels fell off. History will not treat the outgoing PM very well.
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December 9, 2022 4:58pm
- mandk
  
  Peter’s visited the worst PM ever upon the people of NZ, and he should never be forgiven that.
  
  Just think, we could have had Bill English as PM and Steven Joyce as Finance Minister.
  
  22 2
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  December 9, 2022 5:33pm
  - Ghost
    
    Just think, the voters could have not voted Winston to keep national honest and given their vote to national or act.
    
    Winston didn’t like bill english. He blamed Paula for leaking his details. Yet people gave him their vote to keep national honest.
    
    11 1
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    December 9, 2022 6:09pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      So he bamboozled his mug voters as usual.
      
      12 0
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      December 9, 2022 6:22pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    An absolute tragedy for NZ
    
    7 0
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    December 9, 2022 8:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Election Eve thermonuclear meltdown will be delicious.
  
  2 0
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  December 10, 2022 10:31am
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Final word on Hamilton byelection tomorrow. Cindy in town today. That means she knows Labour is going to win for sure. Gerogie Dansey was all smiles and giggling while National candidate Tama Potaka was all gloomy and Lux was nowhere to be seen. Labour is phone calling all its supporters with an army of volunteers. Kiwi bloggers are in for a rude shock tomorrow. Sorryt guys.
1 11
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December 9, 2022 8:22pm
- Prince
  
  ice try mate, but I’ve seen the polls. Ardern will give the usual ‘low turnout, we have plenty of time to turn it around, we are committed to serve the people blah blah blah’.
  
  4 0
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  December 9, 2022 9:01pm

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