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December 25, 2022 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 December 2022

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

Merry Christmas all. I hope today is filled with happiness and connection with loved ones. Mrs kk and I are in Northland, staying on a farm with some friends of 50ish years. Very relaxing.
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December 25, 2022 8:06am
- Matt Long
  
  Welcome to Northland KO, I hope you have a great stay.
  
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  December 25, 2022 10:01am
  - Matt Long
    
    KK, and special thanks to Google Android for mangling my sentences for another year.
    
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    December 25, 2022 10:03am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I recommend get off Big Tech. All of it. They are out of control and heading us nowhere good.
      
      There are “de-googled” phones and a number of privacy based Operating Systems.
      
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      December 25, 2022 12:05pm
      - glowworm
        
        Agree. GrapheneOS on a Pixel phone sounds like a good idea.
        
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        December 25, 2022 5:15pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Yes indeed. For those that don’t want to mess around “under the hood” there is the Brax2 phone for about $500 or so NZ dollars (ordered online from USA).
        
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        December 26, 2022 3:18pm
- rockape
  
  Did you need a passport?
  
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  December 25, 2022 10:08am
mikenmildagain

Best wishes to the NZ cricket team, enjoying Quaid-i-Azam Day in Pakistan as they prepare for test cricket tomorrow.
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December 25, 2022 8:10am
- krazykiwi
  
  I’m certain that 0% of our cricket squad know of, nor care about Quaid-i-Azam Day. Their thoughts will be of family, Christian traditions, and Christmas afternoon food comas
  
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  December 25, 2022 8:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The two squad members born on the subcontinent possibly do not share your insular outlook.
    
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    December 25, 2022 8:31am
    - Fishing in the dark
      
      The only which an insular outlook is yourself
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:11am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    So is it, or is it not, OK to offer traditional greetings to somebody who is unlikely to be part of that tradition?
    
    Because down below we seem to think that people who may or may not have any ancestral, cultural or spiritual attachment to Christmas, ought nevertheless to be exposed to all the trappings of the festival, since it is part of the traditions of the country they are in.
    
    So why shouldn’t guests in Pakistan be offered greetings in the tradition there, even if they’re not Pakistani?
    
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    December 25, 2022 4:54pm
- rouppe
  
  It would seem you were dis-informationed.
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/300773363/pavlova-peanut-butter-and-a-personal-barista-how-the-black-caps-celebrate-christmas-in-pakistan
  
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  December 25, 2022 9:35am
Paulus

May I firstly offer congratulations to RNZ.
This morning the Christmas Day Service came from a Samoan Church in Auckland.
It was delightful that the service was in English and Samoan, but particularly the singing and of the Samoan Hymns as well.
Years ago I worked in and out of Samoa and whilst there at the weekends would leave Apia and go round often listening to the local church services, and particularly the singing.
Happy memories came back this morning.
Thanks RNZ.
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December 25, 2022 8:11am
Scooter

WTF is doing the mahi. Is there any other country like NZ that is actively inserting words from one language to another, bastardising both. How do they think adding the odd word here an there will achieve any level of comprehension. Where are the complete sentences in Maori, how can you speak or understand a language unless it is complete ie verb noun pronoun etc. Not this woke crap half english 1 or 2 word maori garbage.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/300771078/the-two-air-new-zealand-pilots-doing-the-mahi-on-christmas-day
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December 25, 2022 9:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Mahi has been a word in New Zealand English for a very long time.
  
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  December 25, 2022 9:18am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    When you speak a vernacular you can insert words in that are part of that vernacular,
    
    However, when you are writing in a paper that is meant to be ” an instrument of record” and can be read by many people who are not familiar with NZ vernacular you should write in English.
    
    The Straits Times in Singapore doesn’t put in Singlish nor the SMP Chinglish.
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:34am
    - Nickc2
      
      Imagine being a tourist driving say between Akld and Wgtn and you wish to report a road slip you have just witnessed. You phone a friend in NZ seeking advice and the friend advises you to phone (Te Reo words) WTF?
      English is one of six international languages, Te Reo is not even understood by the majority of NZers and it never will be IMO.
      There are 6 international languages: English, French, Spanish, Russian, Arabic and Chinese
      Courtesy Google
      I’m not sure if Chinese is Mandarin or Cantonese
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:21am
      - Ghost
        
        If I saw a road slip I’d just phone police and leave it at that.
        
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        December 25, 2022 10:24am
      - Nickc2
        
        Ghost @1021AM
        
        Don’t you mean Pirihimana? Racist //
        
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        December 25, 2022 10:41am
      - Keith White
        
        My experience was, not necessarily to be generalised from, that Mandarin is for the schooled / the middle classes and the citydwellers and Cantonese for the people who serve the citydwellers and the upper classes.
        
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        December 25, 2022 8:41pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      If you want a laugh go to Facebook Labour Party page and see their Christmas greeting to the nation. And they wonder why they’re tanking in the polls.
      
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      December 25, 2022 8:47pm
  - crikey
    
    mma: No it hasn’t been a word in NZ English for a very long time.
    
    I have lived in this country for a very long time, including being raised in one of the most Maori-dominant towns in the North Island, and I can say without a doubt that it is a very recent occurrence.
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:35am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Mahi is an English word in the same way microprocessor is a Maori word.
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:35am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Now you done gone and confused him.
      
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      December 25, 2022 9:50am
  - Sideoiler
    
    Mahi has been a word in New Zealand English for a very long time.
    
    There is no such thing as ‘New Zealand English’. There is English and there are mistakes.
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:36am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Lexicographers disagree with you.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_English
      
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      December 25, 2022 9:46am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      In this case I agree with Mike. There is New Zealand English. The unique accent, and a range of words and terms, eg “chilly bin”.
      
      However that is totally different from a hybrid Maori English language. This is manifested in predominantly Maori names of government institutions. No other country has mashed together two languages. For reasons that I should not have to explain.
      
      In my opinion, it is appallingly stupid. However as it is accelerating, I am clearly in the minority.
      
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      December 25, 2022 9:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think you might find, on reflection, that very many languages have been ‘mashed together’ over time.
        
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        December 25, 2022 10:56am
      - artemisia
        
        You are in the majority. Eye rollers also in the majority for the same reason.
        
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        December 25, 2022 11:26am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Personally using Māori words in English as these media turkeys do is knuckle bitingly cringe worthy. As soon as someone in my presence starts doing it I completely dismiss them.
        
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        December 25, 2022 3:00pm
  - Bob
    
    for a very long time…..
    NO IT HASN’T
    Never heard of it until the beginning of this century when the Clark era specialised in mangling the english language for political agenda purposes.
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:39am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      People don’t realise how bad it is in the public service. I have received emails from public servants that are incomprehensible. A recent trend is government departments giving all job titles, committees, working groups, management groups, and even their IT systems, exclusively Maori names with no translations. I am not making this up.
      
      There are many countries with two and sometimes three languages. Belgium and Switzerland for example. It would be absurd for an official communication to be a combination of French and Flemish.
      
      Of course in Belgium there is no expectation that a French speaker will understand Flemish. In contrast in New Zealand, there is an elite mangling the English language. It has NOTHING to do with enhancing communication. The motivations are probably several, appeasing the hurt of colonisation, for example.
      
      However at the end of the day language IS about communication. And in a modern society communicating highly sophisticated concepts that are common across the world. The Maori language cannot facilitate such communication.
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:16am
      - Ghost
        
        Yeah, I know one person who was given her new title, took it to the management said if they want her to remain at the hospital she will continue to to use her current title and will not be using her pronouns etc. hospital told her to ignore it. Was at the GP the other day and he showed me that they had changed the medical records to now have a pronoun for me. He’s getting feed up with all the shit, I just hope he doesn’t use his time off to decide to retire
        
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        December 25, 2022 10:23am
      - kowtow
        
        What’s being communicated is that the so called public service has been captured or instructed to be a paternalist , top down waste of space and tax dollars pretending by using tokenism to “actively promote the principles of ToW ” .
        
        And the same applies to the media , who have been bought by the regime and who’ve sold their soul very cheaply indeed.
        
        It’s a fad that will pass . But at very great expense both financially and socially.
        
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        December 25, 2022 10:54am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Last year I was working with some public servants. The woman in charge asked me if I could use a Maori title she had made up for me, and my ‘pronouns’ in my email signature. (I had been given a government department laptop for secure emailing etc.) I said no, and that I was happy to leave if she insisted. It was never raised again 🙂 Of course if you are a public servant, try that and your career is finished.
        
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        December 25, 2022 11:50am
      - Nickc2
        
        I thought you had to consider yourself Maori and have links to Mahuta Corp to win a Govt Contract or Consult to them these days?
        
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        December 25, 2022 12:03pm
  - Opie
    
    Its only been inserted into English sentences by virtue signaling losers for the last couple of years – in line with the attempts to maorify everything from a carpark to a government ministry.
    
    What amazes me is that people think jamming a Maori word in here and there actually helps save the language, lift maoris out of poverty or create better educational outcomes. It doesn’t, all it does is cost money to change signage, department names and titles etc with a good dollop siphoned off to elites like mahutas cusband as “consultants” to tell the woke apologists just how many words they should say to meet the quota. And if they dare disagree they will be racist and cancelled. Or not get the job in the first place.
    
    The money wasted on this sort of rubbish would be much better spent on getting them off the couch, into work and the kids fed and to school everyday.
    
    That will take motivation, actual work and accountability both from government departments and individuals so we will just say a few words in Maori, spend 100s of millions on who knows what, keep increasing benefits and allowing kids to not go to school, all the while watchong outcomes worsen for those they claim to be helping.
    
    Speak English or Maori, but don’t butcher both of them.
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:57am
    - Nickc2
      
      IMO, Maori believe they’ve got you either way. If you drop the occasional Te Reo word into a conversation, they consider you have been inducted into the Woke Maori establishment. If you refuse to use Te Reo in your conversations, they’ve got you labeled as a Racist.
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:36am
      - Keith White
        
        Yeah, but that race card they’re waving? It’s reached its limit and will soon cease to be honoured by any merchant…
        
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        December 25, 2022 8:43pm
    - kowtow
      
      Same with the fad for “cool” , “with it” types to dangle greenstone from their necks.
      
      Another signal.
      
      Like tats , dreads , pronoun badges , pink hair , gang patches ……..
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:58am
  - Jack5
    
    Mahi has been a word in ~~New Zealand English~~ New Zealand Pidgin for a ~~very long~~ relatively short time.
    
    Merry Christmas to you, Milky, and all fellow Kiwibloglodytes.
    
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    December 25, 2022 10:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Same to you, Jacksie.
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:58am
      - Jack5
        
        At last … someone has been open enough to wish me “Happy Christmas, you arse.” 😀
        
        https://www.thefreedictionary.com/jacksie
        
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        December 25, 2022 11:20am
  - R
    
    Mahi has been a word in New Zealand English for a very long time.
    
    You conveniently miss the point that recent migrants haven’t been living here for a very long time. Furthermore, English is likely to be a second language which they are trying to coming to terms with. We could make life easier for them. You clearly think we should make it harder for them.
    
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    December 25, 2022 11:25am
    - graham
      
      Well said R. This is the reason I strongly object to the mangled and often tortuous use of Maori in the 1 News program. For a state broadcaster’s flagship news program to deliberately make the news bulletin more difficult to understand for a large proportion of their audience defies rational explanation.
      
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      December 25, 2022 12:24pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I find the use of Manglish in the Weather reports to be a particular problem.
        
        If folks like my Hubby (70 years old, born in NZ, lived in NZ all his life) can’t figure out where the forecast is for or what is being predicted, then I can’t imagine how new immigrants or visitors to the country are expected to cope.
        
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        December 25, 2022 12:50pm
      - Jafa
        
        More and more folk will be learning where the the off button is on their TV remotes as is the case in our household. This is the natural consequence of alienating your audience. If TVNZ continue like this their viewing numbers will be terrible. It’s a bit of an irony that the folks with communication degrees that are driving this rubbish will actually cause a decreased level of communication. Some would call it an own goal!
        
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        December 25, 2022 2:19pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Never heard of it until the clown show started ramming Maori language into every orifice without translation. “We will piss you off with un-translated Maori in every sphere until you give up and start learning” seems to be the adolescent mentality behind this.
    
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    December 25, 2022 12:09pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Nonsense. I’ve been here for much longer than you and it’s relatively recent. It’s part of pidgin, not Kiwi English.
    
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    December 25, 2022 12:15pm
  - Sol Invictus
    
    What complete nonsense you spout! I’m pushing 70 and never heard the word mahi until it was used during the so-called pandemic by Dr Bloomfield.
    
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    December 25, 2022 6:31pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    No, it hasn’t mike. I have been around for a very long time. Lived and worked in Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington and Auckland. And have never heard the word spoken by anyone other than in the context of fishing, as mahi mahi is a fish.
    
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    December 25, 2022 6:46pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Same here.
      
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      December 25, 2022 7:32pm
  - Scooter
    
    Sounds like something Jacinda would say, blanket statement, no actual fact to back it up.
    
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    December 25, 2022 10:23pm
  - Than
    
    Bullshit. At least certainly it was not one in common use. I lived in NZ for the first 40 years of my life, and had never heard that word until today.
    
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    December 26, 2022 8:22am
- Ford Prefect
  
  My brother started work at 5am this morning. Is he also ‘doing the mahi’ ordoes praise only go the women who work on Christmas.
  
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  December 25, 2022 9:41am
  - Opie
    
    If he works for a private organization then he will be actually working, not virtue signaling for feels
    
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    December 25, 2022 9:58am
    - Ford Prefect
      
      Hes working in retail and apparently getting triple time. What a good little capitalist.
      
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      December 25, 2022 11:21am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Sorry, fat finger downtick
        
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        December 25, 2022 12:35pm
- Ghost
  
  Maybe they’re flying over the Mahi in India? Or in Hawaii fishing for the mahi-mahi. Or maybe they just enjoy the Sanskrit origin of mahi, goddess
  
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  December 25, 2022 10:06am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  “If you want to speak Maori find someone else who wants to speak it and speak it with them. I don’t enjoy being on the receiving end of your virtue signalling.”
  
  My response to this nonsense.
  
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  December 25, 2022 3:05pm
  - Than
    
    Hear, hear. Well said.
    
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    December 26, 2022 8:29am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Certainly won’t be a peace-making exercise but definitely a legit response. Expect major arm waving dummy-spits in response!!
    
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    December 27, 2022 1:43am
- Master Mariner
  
  Interestingly Id assume the International language for aircraft would be English, as it is the International language for ships.
  
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  December 25, 2022 3:17pm
  - Keith White
    
    The FAA (Federal Aviation Authority) and ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization), the world’s organization overseeing aviation, require all pilots flying under their organizations to have attained ICAO “Level 4” English ability. This means all pilots must speak, read, write, and understand English fluently.
    
    If you’re flying e.g. out of some African and East Asian places, on air platforms not linked to those organizations, that fluency is not visible – but it is not obliged to be.
    
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    December 25, 2022 8:47pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Akshilly folks…..

1. As an Advisory Editor to The Dictionary of New Zealand English, I have to affirm that there is such a thing as NZ English.

2. The word Mahi is in the 1994 Oxford edition of the DNZE as a variant spelling of Mai – an obsolete name/spelling for Matai
(a tall Podocarp tree).
(p.459)

3. There is no record that Mahi is being used to mean work.

4. If Harry Orsman (or his many contacts) had heard or read the word mahi being used as a synonym for work before 1994, he’d have documented it.
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December 25, 2022 10:06am
- Taieri
  
  Another recent favourite is “motu”, as in, “across the motu”…
  
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  December 25, 2022 10:12am
  - Ghost
    
    You mean these people 😳
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motu_people
    
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    December 25, 2022 10:16am
    - Jack5
      
      So we have NZ English, meaning a form of English less distinctive than a dialect. It is mutually intelligible with similar national forms for English.
      
      We also have NZ Pidgin, which is a mish-mash of English and Maori promoted for ideological purposes by State TV, State Radio, and the Ardern-subsidised newspapers. NZ Pidgin isn’t mutually intelligible with various forms of English.
      
      Can anyone but Australians and New Zealanders distinguish “NZ English” from “Australian English”?
      
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      December 25, 2022 10:40am
      - Jack5
        
        Maggy, you’ve been mentioning some of the seasonal treats you have been working up.
        
        Will Mr-Dr Wassilieff get Russian Christmas dishes from Mrs-Dr Wassilieff again on January 7, the Orthodox Christmas?
        
        Merry Christmas to you and your family: Счастливого Рождества
        
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        December 25, 2022 11:00am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @J5
        
        No, he ~~bloody well~~ will not.
        
        Even he has discovered the various ways in which life can be made simpler..
        Yesterday he opted to cut out larger piroshki dough circles than the ones his babushka made…. and lo and behold, the job was done in half the time…and I reckon , big ones taste better.
        
        Some years ago I stopped baking a kulich as a substitute for Christmas cake… now Hubby goes off and buys 2- 4 large panettone cakes from the local mediterranean import store…. They taste similar (but better) than home-made kulich.
        
        Usually he’s devoured them all within a couple of weeks… but one year, he still had some left for Easter.
        
        We are not a religious household…
        It’s just that when I was young and silly, I thought it would be a good idea to expose our kids to some of their father’s culcha.
        
        I’m older and wiser and much slacker these days.
        
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        December 25, 2022 11:30am
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Aren’t we all Maggy. But there is plenty of young foolish about and a deal of older foolish too.
        
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        December 25, 2022 7:36pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Motu has history. There is an island in the Auckland gulf called Motu.
    
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    December 25, 2022 3:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think you might find that many, many islands have motu as part of their name. Who knows why that could be?
      
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      December 26, 2022 5:44am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I don’t think many would object to Maori language being taught in primary school and maybe optional at high school (because there is a lot more pressing stuff to learn about life in the modern world).
    
    The government however are just being juvenile w@nkers the way they are going about it currently.
    
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    December 27, 2022 1:47am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Perhaps you will edit Wiktionary accordingly, as it currently provides the definition, for NZ English as ‘the work required to complete a task’ with an etymology of mahi from Proto-Polynesian ‘mafi’.
  
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  December 25, 2022 11:05am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Wiktionary comes under the umbrella of Wikipedia?
    
    Wikipedia masquerades as an encyclopedia while actually being a slander and smear platform run by anonymous far left craptivists. The only reason it isn’t sued to hell and back is because of a loophole in US law.
    
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    December 25, 2022 12:13pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Free speech is a ‘loophole’?
      But feel free to tell me about your preferred sources for general information, or to provide contrary open-source information about the use of New Zealand English.
      
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      December 25, 2022 12:48pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Anonymous entities funded by billionaires and political operators (supported and promoted by big tech) pretending to run an authoritative global “encyclopedia” yet slandering some of the most qualified and experienced atmospheric physicists as “science deniers” for example isn’t about “free speech”. Corruption is OK as long as it supports lefty narratives Milky?
        
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        December 25, 2022 1:00pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m sure you will be very easily able to provide an example of a Wikipedia article that displays these characteristics of slander and smear. Oh, and be able to contrast such article with a more comprehensive article backed by open-source citations.
        
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        December 25, 2022 7:53pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Milky look up almost any prominent conservative figure who has gone up against the lefty narratives and note how there is almost always a “controversies” section full of dubious name calling and slur (from anonymous clowns behind the Wikipedia curtain). Then contrast this by looking up prominent people on the left who’ve been pushing false information (Maddow with the Russia-gate crap springs to mind. How about the media personalities that piled in on the Covington kids for example?). Look at the utterly juvenile crap posted about highly credentialed scientists like Roy Spencer and all the other IPCC advisers who called bullshit on way the IPCC spun scientific findings into unwarranted alarm. Your “open source” claim is just lefty BS artists quoting other lefty BS artists, as they do (IE desmogblog quoting wikipedia, and the list goes on). The lefty disinformation machine has a giant ecosystem that does this (with academia, big tech and virtue signalling corporations piling on also).
        
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        December 26, 2022 3:35pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Even Wikipedia itself admits it’s all a bunch of unreliable horseshit Milky:
        
        Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a reliable source:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not_a_reliable_source
        
        But you go right on trying to baffle with BS about it being “open source”. Hahaha.
        
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        December 27, 2022 4:36pm
- NothingLeft
  
  The Maori wonderfulness movement and its proto-totalitarian acolytes is an Orwellian abomination, faking the past to control the future.
  
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  December 25, 2022 12:44pm
rouppe

Imagine if Trump were President when this was happening.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/24/migrants-face-freezing-christmas-at-us-mexico-border

Where are you AOC? Kamala? Golriz? Why are you silent now?
17 4
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December 25, 2022 10:16am
- krazykiwi
  
  AOC. A broke bartender elected to congress almost 6 years ago with a salary of $155k is now worth $29m .. but the FBI is kicking down Trump’s door?!?
  
  25 5
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  December 25, 2022 11:37am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    She’s a reverse Trump? He started with a huge fortune and frittered it away on failed business ventures.
    
    4 31
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    December 25, 2022 12:03pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Milky, he’s achieved more than you ever will. He’s also stood firm under incredibly heavy fire from the usual corrupt lunatics.
      
      22 5
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      December 25, 2022 12:17pm
      - Ghost
        
        Estimated worth $3.2 billion, guess some people think that isn’t much
        
        https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2022/09/27/the-definitive-networth-of-donaldtrump/?sh=3861975c4813
        
        9 2
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        December 25, 2022 12:24pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Lives better than you, mike. If you like over cooked steak and Diet Coke.
      
      13 3
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      December 25, 2022 12:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        He never seems happy; always ranting at rallies, etc. and complaining about being persecuted.
        
        4 26
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        December 25, 2022 12:50pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        You mission is to shit-post all over kiwiblog?
        
        21 4
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        December 25, 2022 1:02pm
      - graham
        
        He never seems happy; always ranting at rallies, etc. and complaining about being persecuted.
        
        Some people appear to be happiest when they have something to complain about. Isn’t that right, mikenmildagain?
        
        15 3
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        December 25, 2022 1:26pm
    - Grizz
      
      I actually have to agree with you to a point about Trump. He inherited a large sum of money but had he actually been the great businessman he says he is he would be a lot wealthier. In hindsight he would have been better off investing in an index fund when he started out in the 1970s.
      
      Last thing you would want would be for him to be in control of someone elses money like a typical CEO for a large corporation.
      
      8 6
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      December 25, 2022 2:15pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Amazingly, some people still think of him as an example of a successful business builder rather than failson celebrity who played a tycoon in a ‘reality’ show and then parlayed that schtick into political appeal to the gullible and resentful.
        
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        December 25, 2022 8:00pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        “….then parlayed that schtick into political appeal to the gullible and resentful.”
        
        Sounds very much like Jacinda Ardern.
        
        5 1
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        December 25, 2022 11:53pm
    - Ghost
      
      And no she isn’t smart, she couldn’t even afford a house in New Zealand
      
      https://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-politicians/democrats/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-net-worth/
      
      5 2
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      December 25, 2022 2:22pm
Tom Barker

Election-denying Republican gubernatorial candidate Kari Lake loses her court case. It seems that sour grapes doesn’t count as expert evidence, even in an Arizona courtroom.
8 15
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December 25, 2022 10:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Where is that IT Technician who checked the vote counting machines at 11am?
  Things only went bad after he checked them. He should be talking to the Sheriff.
  Then there is the 20 inch forms going into a 19 inch machines.
  Katie Hobbs is corrupt.
  
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  December 25, 2022 11:02am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Will you be eating a holiday meal with any relatives who will be entertained by your fairy stories of election fraud?
    
    4 35
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    December 25, 2022 11:08am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “2000 Mules” may give you some clues Milky.
      
      Given the constant fake narratives and charges (EG Russia-gate and the failed and vexatious impeachment show trials) and the literal incitement to violence the democrats created (during a pandemic no less) it’s not inconceivable that their self righteousness and spite is so great that they would even corrupt an election.
      
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      December 25, 2022 12:25pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That ‘documentary’ showed nothing persuasive of election ‘fraud’ for anyone above an IQ for 85. Someone above was bagging Wikipedia – the same sort of person who would regard the output of James O’Keefe as credible journalism.
        
        4 20
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        December 25, 2022 12:56pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        It’s clear you didn’t watch it but simply consumed the diarrhea fed to you about it by loony left garbage peddlers such as Wikipedia and the like.
        
        13 6
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        December 25, 2022 1:04pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mike will think 2000 Mules is Far Right Conspiracy propaganda.
        A mule means planting a gun on someone at Airport Security, nothing to do with dropping off boot loads of fake ballots in the middle of the night.
        
        5 4
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        December 25, 2022 4:32pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Hey Mike, Kari Lake for VPOTUS in 2024!
      
      10 4
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      December 25, 2022 12:26pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Democrats probably agree she would make an ideal candidate, but might prefer Herschel Walker or George Santos.
        
        3 14
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        December 25, 2022 12:52pm
- MCōs
  
  If the Republicans had ignored Trump and selected a meaningful candidate they would have won that seat.
  
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  December 25, 2022 11:17am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Government. Julian Batchelor.
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/why-the-waitangi-tribunal-is-a-farce/
Dr Bruce Moon’s comments.
“The rangatira who signed te Tiriti o Waitangi in February 1840
did not cede their sovereignty to Britain.” A lie pushed by the Waitangi Tribunal (1975)
https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/bruce-moon-on-giving-Northland-to-Maori.pdf
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December 25, 2022 11:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dr Bruce Moon has 5 points.
  Four of those points are falsehoods/lies.
  This is what the Waitangi Tribunal is feeding to New Zealand: LIES!
  
  10 2
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  December 25, 2022 11:11am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A retired physicist has proven all the actual scholars of our history conclusively wrong.
    
    3 23
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    December 25, 2022 12:57pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      “Actual scholars” in Milkyland = lefty activists with PhDs in BS.
      
      13 4
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      December 25, 2022 1:05pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Of course they ceded sovereignty and I live where it happened. Deniers of that are either liars or idiots.
      
      11 3
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      December 25, 2022 3:13pm
      - Mike
        
        How come the British couldn’t re-erect the flagstaff at Russell til Hone Hele was safely dead?
        
        2 8
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        December 25, 2022 3:32pm
      - Keith White
        
        The power of “and”.
        
        3 1
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        December 26, 2022 12:03am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I gave this to you yesterday, Mike. I guess you were busy or could not be bothered to read it. Bit like I blacklist spam.
      https://www.democracyaction.org.nz/bruce_moon_talks_on_the_treaty
      But today is Christmas Day. Just remember I have sent this to you. From that page:
      https://sites.google.com/site/kiwifrontline/blogs/bruce-moon/bruce-moon-s-nelson-talk
      
      6 4
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      December 25, 2022 4:41pm
      - Mike
        
        Thank you Steve. Feel free to compare, in as much detail as you can manage, his work versus Paul Moon’s.
        
        2 4
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        December 25, 2022 6:18pm
KH

It seems the Labour caucus in out of control, truechaos.
If PM Ardern sacked Mahuta, and then Mahuta challenged, would Ardern win?
There is a strong possibilty we end up with two Labour parties.
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December 25, 2022 11:41am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The Labour Party and The Maori Party who will have up to 7 electoral seats but no list seats
  
  11 0
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  December 25, 2022 12:12pm
- Its only I
  
  By challenge do you mean boxing, wrestling or woke sumo?
  
  7 0
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  December 25, 2022 12:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  New Labour? Party like it’s 1989?
  
  3 17
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  December 25, 2022 1:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bring it!
  National landslide! Oh ACT, please come along as well.
  
  8 0
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  December 25, 2022 4:43pm
Rusty

Jesus is the reason for the season and that is why we say happy CHRIST-mas — who cares anymore?

I realise NZ is more of a secular society than spiritual/religious society but that freedom of choice should never be taken away from Nzers.

Not a day to pick on the govt — so I’ll leave at that.
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December 25, 2022 11:43am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Not everyone is a believer. Often for very well considered reasons.
  
  7 3
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  December 25, 2022 1:11pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Looking closely at verifiable early Christian history and contemporary non-christian mytholigy is extremely corrosive to belief.
    
    4 2
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    December 25, 2022 2:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Rusty, the Govt should be picked on every day for what they have done to New Zealand.
  Yes, today is a special day. I am not a man of faith, but I truly respect those who are. They should have this day for themselves and family, and followers.
  Not just another holiday for me, I am fully retired.
  You have a good Christmas day to reflect on the year that is behind us now. 🙂
  
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  December 25, 2022 4:50pm
Swifty

I’m down in Palmy for Xmas.

Sneaking around downtown this morning in search of a coffee I see a great big awning across the entrance to The Square emblazoned with “Happy Holidays Palmy”.

What’s wrong with ‘Merry Christmas’?

I’ve seen the great arguments over the years about the use of these words in the US and am a little curious about the logic. We (and in my neck of the woods Auckland Council) have no issue with wishing ‘Happy Diwali’ or ‘Happy Eid’ etc it can’t wish everyone ‘Merry Christmas’?

Interestingly many of my Indian, Cambodian, Vietnamese, Thai, Chinese etc shopkeepers and food merchants etc have wished me Marry Christmas in the last few days.

It all seems a bit odd to me.
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December 25, 2022 12:03pm
- Nickc2
  
  You’re not allowed to offend anyone these days with your words, thoughts, gestures, or writings.
  Cindy’s in the process of getting hate speech and any other laws introduced or amended to reflect this requirement.
  
  13 2
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  December 25, 2022 12:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Merry Christmas” might offend someone. The Karens are out there just waiting to be offended so they can ring Authorities and have it taken down.
  I am serious, some just live their whole life being offended.
  
  16 2
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  December 25, 2022 12:33pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Like Mao, Stalin and Polpot they hate the norms and traditions that most people enjoy. They must be torn down to make way for the glorious woke future (see current clown show’s efforts for a taste of what that will look like).
    
    14 2
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    December 25, 2022 1:25pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Not much sign of Christmas in Wellington. By which I mean WCC cheerleading. There’s an illuminated cross at the top of Mt Vic, put up by a local Christian group. Coloured lights adorn the Norfolk pines on Oriental Parade. Maybe there’s a tree in what used to be called Midland Park, I can’t remember. And that’s about it.
  
  Contrast with the Diwali, Eid & other religious festivals – the WCC spin department go into overdrive. It’s almost as if the immigrants from the Philippines don’t deserve their share of the Council’s religious festival budget. Let alone the majority of locals who have a Christian background and/ or recognise that Christmas is part of NZ’s history and culture.
  
  I must admit, I’m a bit split on this as there are limits to how much spending on non essentials I think the Council should do. But, I don’t think that’s the reason for the Council’s parsimony in this case.
  
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  December 25, 2022 12:51pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Yes, there is a tree on Midland Park. There’s also an even bigger one on Courtenay Place. And there was supposed to be a weekend-long “Very Welly Christmas” celebration, but that was lost to the terrible weather. And there have been parades in several of the suburbs as well.
    
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    December 25, 2022 4:56pm
- kowtow
  
  It’s not odd at all.
  
  It is a deliberate , targetted attack on all things “western” , the things that the west is built on.
  
  Same now applies to many other things , esp ramped up on the back of and since the so called ‘racial justice protests’ coming from the extreme left in the US and adopted by so many so quickly in the rest of the Anglosphere. Anti everything that the left don’t like .
  Do away with the foundations of our civilisation , create a new year zero as it were , and start again.
  
  In their own image .
  
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  December 25, 2022 1:12pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Given the vast array of cultural traditions based around the solstice and calendar year end, ‘happy holidays’ seems to me to be a useful catch-all for this time of year. i don’t think you should let signs upset you so much at this festive time.
  
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  December 25, 2022 1:19pm
  - graham
    
    How many of these numerous “cultural traditions based around the solstice and calendar year end” are commonly and widely celebrated in New Zealand, on the 25th of December, mikenmildagain?
    
    Given you have referred to a “vast array”, perhaps you could name just a few of them. Just the ones that are popular enough that they are celebrated by a majority of New Zealanders at the same time as Christmas.
    
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    December 25, 2022 1:34pm
  - Swifty
    
    You really act like a dork at times.
    
    At no stage did I say I was upset, you said that.
    
    I said I was ‘curious about the logic’ and that ‘I found it a bit odd’.
    
    That’s the second time in a week you’ve put words in my mouth.
    
    Is your day so bereft you’ve got to come here and pick fights, and do so dishonestly?
    
    Grow up Mike.
    
    23 2
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    December 25, 2022 1:49pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I think it is sad that on Christmas day he has nothing better to do than make multiple snide remarks on a blog where he disagrees with seemingly every commentator. I would welcome varied viewpoints if they were presented cogently. Snide remarks and trolling not so much.
      
      23 2
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      December 25, 2022 3:56pm
      - Mike
        
        It would do you some good, Benedict, to approach more critically the daily stream of nonsensical comments posted by the folks getting their opinions from Fox, Twitter, Substack, RT, etc.
        
        1 10
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        December 25, 2022 6:43pm
    - Aquarius
      
      Not much chance of that happening
      
      8 2
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      December 25, 2022 5:12pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      [Mod – deleted]
      
      0 11
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      December 25, 2022 7:40pm
      - Swifty
        
        [Mod – just ignore him]
        
        4 1
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        December 25, 2022 7:47pm
      - Swifty
        
        It’s your deceit Mike, not just your words.
        
        7 2
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        December 25, 2022 7:53pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      My sincere apologies to Swifty.
      
      0 12
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      December 25, 2022 8:02pm
  - rouppe
    
    The point is, that it seems only Christian traditions are being diminished.
    
    12 2
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    December 25, 2022 2:35pm
    - Swifty
      
      Thank you rouppe, yes, it just all seems so inconsistent.
      
      8 1
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      December 25, 2022 2:52pm
    - Mike
      
      Ass religious belief is declining overall, it should come as no surprise that the less fashionable superstitions are declining at a greater rate than other forms of silliness.
      
      2 4
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      December 25, 2022 6:27pm
  - Sol Invictus
    
    Milkenmild, you’rer correct, as you so rarely are! After all Yeshua, Mithra, Saturn, Horus, Krishna, Hermes, Dionysus, and, of course, above all Sol Invictus were all born on 25 December (and all of from virgin mothers). Octuplets separated at birth? Each to his own, but a festive time of the year for all.
    
    8 1
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    December 25, 2022 6:57pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Personally, after Festivus the other day, I’m now celebrating the three days of Pastehach, although some schismatics from our church prefer separate days for Egg Nog Day, the 1st Day of Noodlemas and Cardbard Box Appreciation Day.
      
      2 10
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      December 25, 2022 7:44pm
      - Sol Invictus
        
        All sound worth celebrating to me. Enjoy.
        
        2 1
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        December 25, 2022 7:54pm
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        What an idiot!
        
        7 3
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        December 25, 2022 8:18pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        This is what I’m talking about. 🙄
        
        9 2
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        December 25, 2022 8:35pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Wellington is in charge of stopping doing things. Just another job ticked off.
  
  5 3
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  December 25, 2022 3:19pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Which Wellington? The Iron Duke (and Blucher) certainly stopped Napoleon, but you can’t possibly be referring to him.
    
    1 17
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    December 25, 2022 7:48pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      So happy Christmas. You clearly had a miserable day alone 🙄 Can’t you branch out and cogently express your views?
      
      15 2
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      December 25, 2022 8:37pm
      - Mike
        
        Please feel free to nominate a topic and I’ll write another guest post for DPF to consider publishing.
        
        2 8
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        December 25, 2022 8:41pm
      - Sponge
        
        I will play Mike/mikenmildagain.
        
        An exploration of weight identity in morbidly obese gay women of colour in Aotearoa (New Zealand) and their impact on public transport.
        
        I have been fascinated for years and seeing as you know everything, I have no doubt you will be able to enlighten me. Now get to it!
        
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        December 26, 2022 12:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not enough there for a guest post I’m afraid.
        The obesity epidemic undoubtedly has implications for the public transport system, both for access to and from modes of transport and for seating configurations, etc. But I can’t see that mixing more general questions of ethnic, gender and fat identity into these specific access issues would produce a specific question of public policy worthy of lengthy discussion.
        How about you look at some previous guest posts and try ~~harder~~again?
        
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        December 26, 2022 5:37am
Taieri

And in the meantime…

Global warming hits the US:

“(..)Plummeting temperatures were expected to bring the coldest Christmas Eve on record, and energy systems across the country were strained by rising demand for heat and storm-related damage to transmission lines.(…)”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/world/storm-chaos-continues-us
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December 25, 2022 12:53pm
[email protected]

Seasons Greetings to David and the moderators!

[Merry Christmas from the Mods and David]
16 3
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December 25, 2022 1:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Most Covid deaths are vaccinated, NOT a pandemic of the unvaccinated.
Yeah it’s the Washington Post.
https://rossduhboss.com/wapo-vaxxed-make-up-a-majority-of-covid-deaths-not-pandemic-of-the-unvaccinated-after-all
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December 25, 2022 2:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fauci, care to respond?
  
  9 5
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  December 25, 2022 3:00pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    The talking heads are unfazed by mere facts. Feel the emotion instead.
    
    10 4
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    December 25, 2022 3:17pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      How do we get ’emotion’ out of the voting arena?
      
      7 4
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      December 25, 2022 4:53pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You really have to ask what is going on. I was dumbfounded yesterday when Fentex pronounced that there were no excess deaths being recorded in New Zealand and other developed countries. I mean you can have views but you can’t just put your fingers in your ears and deny data from official government sources across the world. 😂
    
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    December 25, 2022 4:50pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Fingers in the ears, but we have eyes. Unfortunately, those eyes are blinkered or covered with distorted facts.
      
      7 3
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      December 25, 2022 4:56pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  ““Fifty-eight percent of coronavirus deaths in August were people who were vaccinated and boosted,” Beard wrote of the analysis.”
  
  That is a worry. I checked the latest data on vaccination rates. 33 percent of Americans have had 2 shots plus a booster. If this group is making up 58 percent of covid cases, having 3 shots is making them more likely to get covid than people with zero, one or two shots.
  
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  December 25, 2022 4:46pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Except the vaccinated are more likely to be motivated high risk.
    
    8 5
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    December 25, 2022 4:52pm
    - Keith White
      
      Unfortunately, the vaccinated in many countries, and I am seeing examples of this in my current practice, are less likely to be those at high risk and more likely to be those who were either mandated into having the coronavirus vaccine, or accepted the vaccine because without it they could not travel domestically or internationally for work or attend work in person, or a combination of those three factors.
      
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      December 26, 2022 7:13am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

There can be no more than eight bullets in a round, OK?
https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1584373507101986816
4 4
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December 25, 2022 3:17pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, interesting that Twitter story was before the lazy employees were dropped from the payroll. It was a nasty place.
  
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  December 25, 2022 4:44pm
Surely Knott

Police turning people away from long bay beach on Christmas as it has reached capacity? Wtf? What is the legal basis? What is the legal capacity of long bay beach? How many people can a Nz beach hold per sqm? Where can I see the legislation ? Where can we see the capacity per square metre used internationally for beach capacity? Has a nz beach ever come close to as busy as a European beach? What is the safety risk of a crowded beach? It’s not like a stadium with walls. Photo shows a number of people walking at the beach and plenty of empty space? Bizarre yet classic Overreach we have come to expect in 2022.
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December 25, 2022 5:49pm
- Inandout
  
  SK, used to go there in the 90’s and bus loads of people from South Auckland would arrive and take over much of the beach, but still heaps of room.
  
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  December 25, 2022 6:26pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I thought Auckland’s population would have stabilised by now.
    
    3 9
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    December 25, 2022 8:04pm
    - Keith White
      
      One may well, trying to be helpful here, say the same about you Mikey.
      
      5 3
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      December 25, 2022 10:34pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Police over reach I suspect. It’s just a pity their “health & safety” concerns don’t expend to dairy and jeweller owners exposed to 14 year olds.
  
  7 1
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  December 25, 2022 10:10pm
  - Ghost
    
    Police will be responding to either the life guards or the council.
    
    But hey, any reason to attack the police
    
    1 4
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    December 25, 2022 10:19pm
- Scooter
  
  Worse it’s another example of the nanny state at work, you must be protected from yourself, too many people out driving and swimming, enjoying freedom, after all they can’t role out the covid excuse..so soon.
  Soon breathing will be outlawed as dangerous to our health.
  
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  December 26, 2022 12:05am
Keith White

Coming soon to NZ courtesy of Te Whatu Ora

Paralympian says Canada offered to euthanise her when she asked for a stairlift.

‘I have a letter saying that if you’re so desperate, madam, we can offer you… medical assistance in dying,’ Christine Gauthier told a Canadian veterans affairs committee
5 4
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December 25, 2022 10:33pm
- Ghost
  
  Nope, not coming here soon, and no way it can under the law.
  
  3 3
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  December 25, 2022 10:53pm
  - Keith White
    
    “No way it can under the law”.
    
    Oh, that’s funny.
    
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    December 26, 2022 12:00am
    - Ghost
      
      I suggest you go read the procedure that has to be undertaken before a person is approved in New Zealand, I realise you come here every now and then and push that it’s not right and people will be forced to end their lives, but it’s just bullshit and shows you are pushing your agenda with zero facts to back it up.
      
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      December 26, 2022 12:13am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Ghost, current NZ legislation may just be the thin end of the wedge, as it has been overseas.
        
        Not that, with your moniker, it will be a problem for you.
        
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        December 26, 2022 6:22am
      - Keith White
        
        I don’t have to read the “procedure”, I did years ago.
        
        Also I presented a submission before the law was passed.
        
        Here’s some facts for you: In recent years, Canada has established some of the world’s most permissive euthanasia laws, allowing adults to seek either physician-assisted suicide or direct euthanasia for many different forms of serious suffering, not just terminal disease. In 2021, over 10,000 people ended their lives this way, just over 3 percent of all deaths in Canada.
        
        A further expansion*, allowing euthanasia for mental-health conditions, will go into effect in March 2023; permitting euthanasia for “mature” minors is also being considered. *In my view, that very definitely establishes the slipperiness of the slope.
        
        If you were to do more research into the recent history of “assisted dying” in the EU esp. but not only the Netherlands and Belgium, and Canada, you may, out of fairness, acknowledge that when those programs started in those countries they were absolutely full of people with good intentions who said “the scaremongering suggesting that people will be pressurised to kill themselves is just scaremongering, and it will never happen…” And now it’s happening.
        
        I appreciate that you think I’m trying to push something, actually I am not, this is one of the places I come to, to see what’s happening back in my home country – well, my home before the government of the day made it impossible for me to practice my profession. If you’re uncomfortable with that, feel free to block me or you could, you know, just scroll past.
        
        I’m pretty sure if you’re old enough in chronological years, that you would have once thought that what happened in Fiji with ethnic based government could never happen in New Zealand. Now it is.
        
        Reality is that thing that when you refuse to acknowledge it, still doesn’t disappear.
        
        In the meantime, down-tick away if it’s helpful for your mental health. Chacun a son gout.
        
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        December 26, 2022 7:09am

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