General Debate 08 January 2023

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Tomtoddy

Is there anyone more irrelevant, narcissistic, inane and predictably trivial than Shaneel Lal?
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January 8, 2023 8:01am
- Luke Piewalker
  
  Jacinda Ardern
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Well done – and correct.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:33am
    - Colville
      
      Regrettably Jacinda is hardly irrelevant.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:50am
      - pdm
        
        Give it time Colville, give it time.
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:15am
- Cassandra
  
  Harry, Duke of Sussex, closely followed by his cunning wife. Damaging the institution which is the basis of your wealth. Dopey but ultimately irrelevant, even in the USA.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:19am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    It’s called cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face, but Harry seems to have turned it into an art form!
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:15am
    - Alex
      
      Tony,
      An art form for of enriching oneself while dobbing in rest of the royal family.
      I put it down to the magic mushrooms when he saw the face in the pedal bin at Courtney’s place.
      Poor boy s not that sane.
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:02am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        It does appear (anecdotally to me at least) that hallucinogens (such as magic mushrooms, LSD, Ayahuasca etc) and even Marijuana can have a much more powerful derailing effect on the minds of the young than on older adults.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:12pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @NZer.
        Afghanistan, training the Troops to fight the Taliban was impossible.
        They were all off their tits on drugs!
        
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        January 8, 2023 3:20pm
    - Biscuit
      
      Did you hear the latest ‘revelation’ from Harry’s ‘Spare’, Tony?
      
      Apparently Harry had a frost-bitten penis at Wills and Kate’s wedding.
      Most of the other guests had the chicken…
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:04am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Cause Dad said you’re not my son, I think it’s the red hair
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:37am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Groan. Trust you.
        
        Diana Spencer’s younger brother Charles has red hair.
        
        Harry was born in 1984. Diana and James Hewitt met in 1986 (see https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a33984149/james-hewitt-princess-diana-affair-details/).
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:16pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Random cases of red hair can pop up out of what seems like nowhere. “Throw back” genes and all.
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:29pm
      - Kiwiguy
        
        Yes, it turned out to be just a red hair-ing.
        Or should that be a red heir-ing.
        
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        January 9, 2023 12:44pm
  - Scooter
    
    Wife first, she’s the one pulling the strings and I suspect out for whatever she can get from him, ie a divorce after the media uproar and possible security threats?
    
    https://www.therapycts.com/blog/2020/11/11/six-warning-signs-of-isolation-and-emotional-abuse
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The longer they stay together, the more dosh she will get. Personally I think she is waiting for him to step out of line, have an affair, order some hookers, or something equally stupid. Then she will make her very decisive cut.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:37am
      - Scooter
        
        He is pussy whipped and won’t do anything unless she tells him.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:29am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        This generation thinks very differently about such matters to you and I. Don’t assume that she isn’t already the one getting him hookers so she doesn’t have to put out.
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:28am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Steve, I think any money that Harry has from Diana’s estate will be well protected from the grasping hands of Meghan. His issue will be the kids. She will get half of the money they have made since getting to the States, and all of it has been made on the back of Harry being a royal. Courts in the States will say she has plenty to give the kids a comfortable life and it would be awful if they were taken from their mum…
        
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        January 8, 2023 7:55pm
  - Spoff
    
    For the power of tradition and its real value to the Constitutions of Commonwealth countries, I had always supported the Monarchy. I thought of it as a bulwark against the American Corruptocracy style of republic. Then came the sacking of Gough Whitlam by the corrupt drunkard Kerr – representing the Crown.
    Charlie turned out to be a bit of a twit but this gingernut, Harry, takes the biscuit.
    I fear it might be time to ditch ’em and take our chances though it could not have come at a worse time – we have never before been so desperately in need of Constitutional guarantees. Mind you, the current royals seem to have lost both minds and power anyway:
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-56008436
    Come to think of it, perhaps that power of tradition disappeared long ago and we have already made the transition? A glance at our current administration is not reassuring.
    
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    January 8, 2023 8:15pm
- CJames
  
  Though it probably proves your point, who is Shaneel Lal?
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:20am
  - Nickc2
    
    Someone to keep your children away from.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaneel_Lal
    
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    January 8, 2023 8:27am
    - dubya
      
      Surprised Wikipedia hasn’t flagged that as a hagiography.
      
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      January 8, 2023 8:48am
      - david
        
        A quick glance through makes one question the quality of education received, particularly as ???? became Dux of the school.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:17am
    - Taieri
      
      Wikipedia entry as long as that for Albert Einstein. No honorary doctorates as yet, just a “passionate changemaker who is the powerful voice of a generation.” Wow!
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:25am
    - Ghost
      
      So what in that makes them a danger to children?
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:43am
      - Nickc2
        
        I’m not talking about ‘them,’ I’m talking about ‘him’ FFS.
        He’s known for spearheading the movement to ban conversion therapy in New Zealand.
        Courtesy Google.
        I’m a fond believer in ‘Parents Have Rights. Conversion Therapy is a choice for parents, not an Alphabet Movement radical.
        
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        January 8, 2023 9:57am
      - Ghost
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Sounds like you are more a danger to children than they are.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:05am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        It all seems innocuous championing the conversion therapy bill to protect confused children from high pressure destructive interventions. But this guy just proves that they aren’t campaigning for the middle ground. Now that they have been successful getting this legislated they want complete annihilation of opposing world views. Proof is in their own Wikipedia page, how they are going after Bethlehem College. A college founded on a Christian worldview – which unequivocally states the view that marriage is between a man and a woman. If you don’t agree with the worldview you have plenty of schooling options in Tauranga to choose from. But that’s not good enough for Lal, he is going to keep pushing this because he is waging a war for his abnormal view of the world.
        
        So Ghost it appears you are trolling inferring that this guy is less of a danger to the children than their parents as Nickc2 has stated.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:58am
      - Ghost
        
        nick2 openly supports conversion therapy that is simply child abuse that leads to depression and suicide of youth, so yes this guy is less of a danger than people like nick
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:07am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        I don’t support child abuse, but tell me does less abuse occur in a society where children understand gender is male and female and a very small percentage of people are confused about their gender or where it is normalised that gender is non-binary and to hold the view that to value marriage between a man and a woman is wrong-think?
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:21am
      - Ghost
        
        Tell me, should a child be free to be who they are or manipulated through the abuse that is conversion therapy to hate themselves, to depression and for some suicide?
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:25am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        This very argument thread is in itself a feature not a bug. Words have been redefined for the express purposed of formenting confusion. From my point of view it looks like you don’t have the same definition of “Conversation Therapy”. If you’re going to debate it to the level of implying that each are monsters, I’d have thought you’d start with agreeing a definition so you know for sure you’re on the same page. 🤷🏼‍♂️
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:34am
      - Ghost
        
        I suggest Deane you go talk to people who have been forced against their will as youth through conversion therapy.
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:47am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        One of my closest friends is gay and experienced this at the hands of Destiny church.
        
        That is irrelevant to my point that you willfully ignore.
        
        I’m not debating this with you and I don’t think you should debate it with anyone either. Because you won’t do the basic courtesy of starting the debate by making sure you’re on the same page with definitions.
        
        I’m quite certain you all mean different things by the term Conversion Therapy.
        
        If you want everyone else to come around to your point of view then how about starting by explaining it.
        
        For all you know, half the people here already agree with you. But if you prefer tilting at windmills, fill your boots. I’m not going to stuff your strawman.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:32pm
      - Ghost
        
        Actually I have more knowledge on the issue than anyone here, so I can debate it, so I suggest you actually learn what you are talking about because I’ve dealt with more youth who have been through this abuse than your one token gay friend. If you want to believe that all that is, is an open conversation without prejudice, abuse and manipulation, then you’re an idiot.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:45pm
      - Taieri
        
        Actually I have more knowledge on the issue than anyone here
        ————-
        
        How do you know how much knowledge “anyone here” has on this particular topic? How do you know that you have “more” of such knowledge?
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:54pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Ghost, why do you feel the need to be so damn arrogant and wilful in missing the point?
        
        I’m not saying you are wrong. I’m saying you are doing yourself a deep disservice by not explaining what you mean.
        
        Instead of getting your ego up, why don’t you put the time into specifically and comprehensively defining what you mean by “conversion therapy”.
        
        In fact I challenge you to write a guest post clearly setting out what you mean and why.
        
        If indeed you have the depth of experience you indicate, I would be very interested in seeing your opinions and discussing them more thoroughly.
        
        Right now all I’m saying is I haven’t got a clue what you mean and where you draw the lines. And I suspect most others are the same.
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:05pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Ghost, even though you have no idea at all about my experiences, where I put my time, and how much deeper I am in this issue than you think, I am happy to accept you have significantly more experience than myself.
        
        I’m just asking you to use that experience and comprehensively explain your point of view.
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:11pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Follow our ideology or people will kill themselves. Ghost is Batman reincarnated?
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:15pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Deane, right now I’m with Ghost. Trying to convert gay teenagers to become “straight” is literally madness (in my view).
        
        You disagree with him. So why don’t you “start the conversation” by giving us your definition of “conversion therapy”?
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:32pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Steve Todd: “Deane, right now I’m with Ghost. Trying to convert gay teenagers to become “straight” is literally madness (in my view).”
        
        They may not actually be rock solid “gay”. They may temporarily think they might be. This happens. Hormones swishing around for the first time and all.
        
        Can an adult (someone over 18) choose to be a Christian and choose to get Christian counseling on the Christian world view on sexuality? If not, why not?
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:42pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Steve Todd, I am in fact very neutral to this. I’ve seen successes and failures on both sides several times. Including lives both destroyed and escaped after grooming and abusive same sex relationships. The reality here though, is that I neither agree nor disagree with Ghost, and I’m not addressing that either.
        
        I’m addressing that I have no idea where Ghost really stands on the issue because I don’t know what he means by conversion therapy.
        
        And frankly, he’s not the only one. I don’t really know what anyone here means by it. What I can see is that basically you don’t agree with each other, but you don’t know what each other means so the whole discussion is absurd.
        
        It’s just looks like another flavour of the “what is a woman” strawman to me.
        
        I’m sure this won’t be very helpful in “starting the debate”, but how about this: I am not arguing in support or against “Conversion Therapy”. I don’t know enough about it.
        
        But Ghost and his ilk seem to want to unilaterally ban, so it seems fairly reasonable that they should have to spell out exactly what their definition of it is so we know what they want to ban.
        
        Fair?
        
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        January 8, 2023 4:54pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        So, you’re not going to give Ghost/us your definition of conversion therapy then?
        
        At 11:34AM, you said to Ghost, “From my point of view it looks like you don’t have the same definition of ‘Conversation Therapy’.” As whose? You didn’t say.
        
        At 1:05PM, you said to Ghost, “Right now all I’m saying is I haven’t got a clue what you mean and where you draw the lines.”
        
        You then said to me, “I’m addressing that I have no idea where Ghost really stands on the issue because I don’t know what he means by conversion therapy.”
        
        In my view, you’re being wilfully obtuse. Why don’t you start with a general definition of conversion therapy, as here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_therapy, and take it from there? Is there another definition? Is that not what you understand conversion therapy to mean? If not, then tell Ghost what your definition is.
        
        Why couldn’t you assume, as I did (at 14.32PM), that Ghost was saying that trying to convert a gay person to a straight person is bad, and doomed to failure, and use that as a starting point in responding to him? If your assumption was wrong, he most likely would have told you that, and then explained what he meant.
        
        I suspect Ghost, seeing that you were writing a lot but not actually saying anything, decided early on that discussing this matter with you would lead nowhere, so decided to ignore you. I don’t blame him.
        
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        January 8, 2023 6:42pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Steve Todd, you’re missing my point too. 🤷🏼‍♂️
        
        I’m not debating conversion therapy. I have been very clear about that. I’m debating that you all have no idea what each other is saying. And you seem incapable of looking for common ground.
        
        End of story.
        
        I don’t care how many times you try to drag me into the CT debate itself. I’m not going to be, and I’ve been clear why. From the beginning.
        
        Every comment from you and Ghost has tried to assign some kind of view you think I have about conversion therapy, this has been nothing more than a fiction in your own minds.
        
        If you are so passionate about the topic, then stop making assumptions and state your case.
        
        Consider that your position on every issue would be stronger if you started where your most recent post ended by posting a definition for people to discuss.
        
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        January 8, 2023 8:56pm
      - Ghost
        
        You actually come across as a dick. I’m not going to debate this, it’s conversation therapy, and I’m telling you what it is because I have a token gay friend who went through it with his destiny church cult. Yeah, sorry, but because you claim it is something and that’s it, just shows you actually are as closed as all the other religious nut jobs here that think conversion therapy is ok. Thank god the experts all agree how damaging, abusive the practise is and so many places are banning it. Because conversion therapy is not a conversation, it is abusive, is is manipulative, it leads so many teens to depression, hurting themselves, and committing suicide, some fucken conversation.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:04pm
      - Ghost
        
        And here is a good piece that shows how moronic this man is and dangerous he is
        
        In a Destiny Church sermon on Sunday, before Monday morning’s quake struck killing two and leaving thousands stranded, Tamaki said “sexual perversion” was to blame for natural disasters.
        
        The controversial Tamaki then went on to blame the earthquakes on “gays, sinners, and murderers”.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/comments-by-brian-tamaki-blaming-gays-murderers-and-sinners-for-earthquakes-called-ridiculous/5BBK77ZXCW7FE2VZSZAUYM22JE/
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:24pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Oh, Deane, you’re the one who doesn’t get it.
        
        I couldn’t give a toss about this subject. All I have said is that if you want to engage with Ghost, then, instead of trying to set the ground rules for discussion with him, just tell him what you think.
        
        If you don’t want to debate CT – and I certainly don’t – then why were you trying to get Ghost to put up his definition of it? What would you have done if he had? Say “thanks Ghost” and leave it that?
        
        You seem to be all over the place. These are my last words on the matter.
        
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        January 8, 2023 9:13pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @Ghost: the fact you ask this question “should a child be free to be who they are” demonstrates your blind ideology and lack of perspective. That an adult could imagine that a child has the slightest idea of who or what they are, is stupidity beyond belief. You’ve obviously never raised children.
        
        The thing that children need most of all is guidance, role models, examples and boundaries. Telling them they can “be free to be who they are” is confusing and disingenuous at best, grooming at worst.
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:52pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Seems to be a mentally disturbed shit stirrer.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:39am
    - Don Beckett
      
      That’s exactly what it is – but Ghost above seems to think its normal – in fact more normal than heterosexual normal. These people are confused with gender disphoria – a psychological condition, and Ghost’s understanding of conversion therapy is for the most part wrong. Sure there have been a few therapies that are wrong, but many are well designed and work well.
      Over 50% of the people who go through gender re-assignment or follow the rainbow alphabet sxuality end up committing suicide – Gost has it wrong.
      
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      January 8, 2023 12:14pm
      - Ghost
        
        No Don. My understanding of conversion therapy comes from five years of counselling gay teens and picking up the mess that conversion therapy left with them, the depression, the self harm, the suicidal behaviour, so I actually have experience in what this abuse does to youth. If only the religious nut jobs would accept their children and love them for who they are instead of putting them through this abuse.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:21pm
      - Swifty
        
        Ghost, would you consider to be child abuse the situation where parents, for their own motivations, encourage, push, enable or in fact force a child to adopt a different gender role and that child becomes confused and screwed-up and then goes on to self-harm or worse?
        
        Would you consider the doctors, other medics, counsellors, psychologists etc who also participated in ‘gender-affirming care’ to also be abusers where later in life the child/person rejects their situation and reverts to their born gender saying it was all a great mistake?
        
        Genuine questions.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:47pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Fair enough Ghost. As I said, some of these therapies are wrong, but they are not all “religious nut jobs”. I defer to your experience with those who suffered trauma from their experience & I sympathise with them.
        However, I do know – not from personal experience but through anecdotal evidence & a passing acquaintance with those involved – where they have a huge degree of success – almost 100% (that is with gay men), and they have been running their organisation for around 20 years now in the USA.
        My main concern though is for those with gender disphoria, who appear to be constantly affirmed in their alphabet soup, instead of genuine psychology to get them to realise, that there are only 2 genders and guide them along the true path. To continually tell them they are normal when they are clearly not is a lie and will only lead to their own destruction through suicide.
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:47pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “Conversion therapy” proper (as in praying out the gay etc etc), like “white supremacy”, is extremely rare. These people act like it’s a clear and present danger. I’d say the real and more prevalent “conversion therapy” is modern gender theory cultists rail-roading young kids into suffering the irreversible effects of trans drugs and surgeries.
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:19pm
  - Ruahine
    
    A Fijian homosexual.
    
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    January 8, 2023 6:34pm
    - Nickc2
      
      A Fijian Indian homosexual!
      
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      January 8, 2023 7:20pm
      - Sarkozygroupie
        
        It says on his opening wiki statement he is indigenous to NZ. How can that be?
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:46pm
- pdm
  
  TT – I will play and help your cause.
  
  Who/what is Shameel Lal?
  Is Shameel Lal a he or a she?
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:22am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Neither pdm; Lal is, unsurprisingly, a They/Them
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      A better pronoun starts with “F” used as a verb.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:40am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Yes I’ve noticed a number of people on the interwebs state that their pronouns are “fuck” and “off”.
        
        This is some new fangled gender?
        
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        January 9, 2023 7:39pm
- Philview
  
  Shaneel seems to have the ear of the Government Ministers and everything he/she/they? has wanted has soon been legislated including shutting down all debate on these issues.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:27am
- Scott
  
  Nothing shows to me the decadence of Western civilisation more than this fellow being an advisor to government and having his own column in a national newspaper. We are now in the strange position of affirming something called “gender identity” which is a concept previously unknown to any civilisation. That somehow you can choose whether you are male or female.
  
  He is also hysterically anti-Christian and he appears to be an angry young man at war with himself. He doesn’t want to be a man and he’s not sure what he wants to be.
  
  Somehow the cause of gender identity has become fashionable? What is wrong with us that we can no longer affirm men and women? Have we all lost our minds?
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:51am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    While he may not know what he wants to be, he wants to be the centre of attention – a hefty dose of narcissistic personality disorder mixed in with that anger.
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:44am
    - Paulus
      
      Should get on well with Jacinda then !
      
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      January 8, 2023 1:08pm
- Andrew S
  
  Shaneel Lal?
  
  Here’s a few facts about Shaneel. He claims to be ‘indignous’ to Fiji yet on an article which miraculously disappeared, he claimed to be indigenous because he’s 9th generation…….hmmmm
  
  He used that trope to get a scholarship at Uni for PI admission criteria.
  
  Shaneel, bless his wee Indian caste socks, said his ‘whakapapa’ were slaves from Britain…..actually, his ancestors from India were indentured servants, similar to 10 pound poms back in the day. The difference being, of course said the horse, is that Shane/Shaneel/He/Her/They/Them haven’t earned his/her crust.
  
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  January 8, 2023 2:53pm
krazykiwi

Ivermectin. Billions of doses given to humans over several decades, with one of the strongest safety profiles in the history of the pharmaceutical industry. Strong observational evidence pre and post Covid of its anti-viral characteristics. Incredibly cheap.

It was as banned in New Zealand in 2020, and remains so.

Why?
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January 8, 2023 8:10am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is not literally banned in New Zealand, however there are unlikely to be any doctors who would prescribe it. This response to an OIA request sets out the situation.
  
  https://tinyurl.com/vn3aw3wc
  
  You are of course correct that it is a longstanding and very safe medicine. It has been used for decades to treat people for ailments such as intestinal worms. Of course these are not usually an issue in New Zealand.
  
  I have seen studies that show it is efficacious for COVID. I have also seen studies showing it is useless. I don’t know which are correct. I gave up on trying to figure it out. As it is dirt cheap, nobody is interested anyway.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:26am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    BY- correct, legally it is available with a prescription. Good luck getting one.
    
    I believe there was a doctor who was struck off for doing this in the beginning of this circus? Or was that for giving someone an exemption for the jab? I’ll have the details on file somewhere.
    
    Mercy time I see our local doctor in public I’ll ask him outright is there any point in my bothering to make an appointment.
    
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    January 8, 2023 8:30am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      “Next”, not “mercy”. Predictive text. It’s why I should never write posts on my phone early in the day before my eyes have focused properly!
      
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      January 8, 2023 8:52am
      - Jack5
        
        Invermectin is pumped down the throats of millions of NZ sheep to kill worms.
        
        Not really a recommendation, given that the first sheep dip (external, as opposed to drench that is internal), almost 200 years ago, contained arsenic.
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:28pm
    - mawm
      
      It is available on prescription – but only certain doctors can prescribe it eg tropical disease specialist. Ask your GP and he/she will not be allowed to without special dispensation from the MoH.
      
      That any treatment was “banned” by the government is to me criminal.
      
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      January 8, 2023 3:11pm
  - Ben Waimata
    
    I accidentally spilled a cattle pour-on (containing only ivermectin, isopropyl alcohol and one other ingredient used for 40 years in cosmetics) onto my arm after covid exposure and after getting the first mild hints of covid symptoms, and have not yet had covid. I am unjabbed and had very many exposures to people with covid.
    I don’t know if my clumsiness with pour-on is related to not getting covid or not, but as the human formulation was banned by my loving Govt the accidental dermal ingestion of the veterinary product may not have been all bad. Most of us farmers have accidentally ingested this stuff for over 30 years with no harm done.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:39am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Ben, my doctor has a hobby farm, and whenever he felt the symptoms of covid coming on, he would pour some of the drenching fluid that he uses for his sheep on his arms, and wait a few days – the symptoms would go away.
      
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      January 8, 2023 12:17pm
    - Ben Waimata
      
      I wonder who the downvote was from, and why? Someone who preferred I got the jab? If so, sorry mate.
      
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      January 8, 2023 4:27pm
      - Sarkozygroupie
        
        There is someone/a tag team of lefties/a bot who is an automatic down ticker of every post no matter what the topic.
        
        Nobody takes any notice of the idiot/idiots anymore so I wouldn’t worry about it! Though the phantom probably feels all righteous in their pink haze of apoplexy, with a puffed up chest.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:59pm
    - Gertie
      
      I did a lot of travelling over 2021 to 2022. Kept a bottle of moxidectin at hand, from early 2021 onwards. Regularly used it. No cold symptoms. No sore throat, no flu in that time. Generally stuck to 3ml, rubbed on arms and legs. 2 or 3 days in a row. I found somewhere on line moxidectin worked as good if not better than ivermectin. It is active longer. I mean really not many farmers would use ivermectin any more given the choice. There are much better brews for parasites. The thing that gave our family confidence to use moxidectin, is there is no meat or milk with holding time with it. Like say Abamectin is 35 days. Ivermectin I think use to be 28 days. Doramectin is 35 days. Looking back I am really pissed off I felt the need to muck around with chemicals that were not properly tested on humans. But I did have the original covid in late november 2019. It scared me at the time. Couldnt breathe. I was so tired. Slept for 5 weeks. Didnt know what it was. It wasnt a cold, nor a flu. Lungs were like a bag of cement. There was a couple of inches at the top that i could get air in. I rekn if covid was a known thing back then I would have panicked. Made it worse. I fully understand the need for extra oxygen. Literally I rubbed cattle pouron over myself regularly as I was more scared of getting covid again.
      
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      January 8, 2023 6:07pm
      - JohnRidd
        
        Hi Gertie
        
        You probably don’t need to worry too much about the “withholding times”
        
        It is a lot cheaper for the manufacturing companies to go with a generic withholding period than to go to the expense of demonstrating the period could be less.
        
        It also has more to do with the possibility that there will be a problem that someone who eats you within 35 days of you taking an ivermectin type drug.
        
        Unless you are worrying about the health of someone who eats you ( or perhaps drinks your milk), the withholding period is not too important.
        
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        January 8, 2023 8:04pm
  - virtualmark
    
    My understanding is that Ivermectin was shown to be useful against the Covid virus in vitro, but only at concentrations that were well above safe limits for human use.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:42am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      virtualmark – the saddest part is we weren’t allowed to find out, it was shut down and demonised in a concerted campaign to protect the profits of the Pfizer product.
      But no, the amount of Ivermectin required for effective treatment or as a prophylaxis is not needed “above safe limits.”
      
      Most recently, a team of experts lead by Dr. Tess Lawrie from BiRD conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis on ivermectin for Covid-19, the gold standard of evidence, that has been published in the peer-reviewed American Journal of Therapeutics.
      This review concludes that, based on moderate certainty evidence, the use of ivermectin results in substantial reductions in Covid-19 related deaths and infection.
      The BiRD and FLCCC recommend Ivermectin for treatment of covid-19 in early out-patient
      disease at a dose of 0.2 mg/kg – 0.4 mg/kg and for later phase, hospital patients 0.4 mg – 0.6
      mg/kg. In each phase, the higher dose range should be used in more severe illness. We strongly
      recommend that ivermectin be continued for 5 days or until recovered. In addition, vitamin D,
      preferably in the form of calcifediol, should be given.
      We also recommend that Ivermectin be used as covid-19 prophylaxis on a large scale through
      mass distribution of ivermectin in the dose of 0.2mg/kg (12mg for a 60 kg person) weekly to
      adults to decrease transmission amongst the general population in the current crisis.
      
      The campaign against Ivermectin was massive and it was based on lies and misinformation. The dosages required for treatment are relatively well known despite this campaign.
      
      The campaign itself was more likely to cause harm to people because many sourced the animal version when they couldn’t get the human one. That made it possible for people to get the dosages wrong as they are based on weight. It was an utterly irresponsible and morally reprehensible act by all of those involved.
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:20am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        Clan – Ivermectin is just one example of the shutting down of anything but the mRNA treatment. As Rodney has said we believe this was necessary to get emergency authorisation. But there is a substantial list of alternative treatments or preventative measures including maintenance of Vitamin D levels. For $20 retail per annum you can boost 1000mu per day. Something all NZers but especially elderly people in rest homes should be prescribed. But crickets on this from our MOH.
        
        Imagine if world war 2 had been fought like the pandemic – there would have been a restructuring of the armed forces being run while the private companies all worked on one special weapon. Not multiple strategies and technological innovations being driven concurrently and independently of each other.
        
        It doesn’t take a lot of analysis to see our leadership of the pandemic as either being incompetent or it was indeed the scamdemic!
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:15am
      - JohnRidd
        
        Regarding covid 19
        
        I am a big believer in taking notice of red flags.
        
        One enormous red flag was the failure to encourage early treatment of anyone who showed covid like symptoms.
        
        Never before in the history of medicine have people suspected of having a serious disease been told to go home and come back to us if you have difficulty breathing.
        
        There are three treatable parts of covid 19.
        
        They are viral replication, inflammation and coagulation.
        
        There are 5 types of treatments that have been shown to reduce the duration and severity of the disease.
        
        They are antivirals, anti-inflammatory, anticoagulatory, immunomodulatory and immune support.
        
        For each of these types of treatments there are a range of options. Many that are known to be both effective and safe and cheap but the government was all vaccinate or nothing.
        
        A couple of examples.
        
        Zinc.
        
        https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciac807/6795268?login=false
        
        Vitamin D
        
        https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0263069
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:54pm
      - Spoff
        
        My unwitting hobby is collecting tropical diseases. My body has antibodies for Malaria, Chikungunya, Ross River Fever and Dengue – legacy of a lifetime of travel and aid work.
        I recently came down with a severe fever. I felt sure it was a recurrence of Dengue.
        A neighbour, having noted my absence from sight for some days, called in. He had a RAT test with him and it lit up like a flare.
        I had no covid symptoms – lack of smell/taste etc. sore throat, cough.
        When I recovered I did some digging and found that the Indonesians had discovered that Dengue will test positive in a Covid RAT test.
        Ivermectin is an anti-viral and is effective against dengue. It is presribed in many countries. I have taken it myself and the dengue symtoms disappeared within 24 hrs. I am confident it is also effective against the group of viri that come under the banner of “Covid” – as about 30 or more studies have now shown. The influential study that supposedly debunked Ivermectin is critiqued here:
        https://www.sott.net/article/466150-NY-Times-latest-to-mislead-public-on-new-ivermectin-study
        
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        January 8, 2023 9:50pm
    - JohnRidd
      
      However, your understanding is flawed.
      
      The in vitro experiment was to demonstrate a principle. It was never proposed that the in vitro doses should be used in vivo.
      
      Later in vivo experiments demonstrated effectiveness at conventional doses of 0.2mg/kg liveweight. (as Clan McLeod has pointed out,)
      
      For me the interesting thing is how the original data was misrepresented to create the false belief that you have expressed. You were taken in by a false representation.
      
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      January 8, 2023 8:49pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    One of the earliest tests carried out in Bangladesh and published online Dec 2020, show a marked curtailing of the Covid infection, and thereby its transmission ability, by the use of Ivermectin and Doxycycline.
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7709596/
    
    I have seen studies that show it is efficacious for COVID. I have also seen studies showing it is useless.
    
    Mouth to mouth resuscitation used on people not breathing when pulled in from the surf sometimes works and sometimes not. But doubt over its effectiveness is not a reason to not administer it.
    
    If there is no harm in trying a remedy, and a distinct possibility it may work, you try it, and monitor the outcome.
    
    Despite how the medical establishment portray things, a substantial amount of medicine IS “hit and miss”. In the case of acute infections with multiple bacteria/viruses, the cause and therefore the specific organisms and viruses are not always able to be isolated.
    
    Our technology has not yet advanced to the state or speed of Star Trek, where you wave a tri-corder over the body and determine cause in 60 seconds and then treat the patient with a hypo spray and discharge then an hour later.
    
    In many instances, blood has to be extracted and tested, and infection samples taken and cultures grown, a process that can take several days.
    
    In the case of Covid-19, while waiting for other measures to be determined, and since Ivermectin is safe, and may do some good, there is no harm in treating the patient in the Interim. Thus avoiding the patient dying or suffering more damage while waiting for other measures to be determined.
    
    I note that they apply this principle with patients by the generous dispensing of Panadol, Morphine, and Tramadol, to deal with pain, even the root cause of the pain has not been identified. . The pain may be a symptom of something more serious, but the urgency of identifying the root cause disappears because the patient is no longer complaining. Yet the pain itself may give a clue as to what is wrong.
    
    Since the cost of Ivermectin is equal to about 12 seconds of the cost of an ICU bed/patient ($10k per day) it would make sense to try the simple things first. i.e. Ivermectin.
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:18am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Uttar Pradesh confounded the “experts” by giving Ivermectin to the whole population. They crushed the covid numbers.
      Of course correlation is not causation……//
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:54am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Same in Japan after the Olympics. Remember the breathless reporting of a disiatrous covid outbreak for several days, then nothing.
        Why ? Because the Japanese govt. widely distributed Ivermectin, thus reducing the impact of covid.
        That is why 2 well known Japanese specialists are petitioning the government to investigate the whole Covid response in Japan.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:25pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        It didn’t “confound” the “experts” hired by the elite, it simply confirmed what they already knew, and that was that Ivermectin was a threat t6o rolling out the vaccines.
        
        Which is why when Uttar Pradesh was down to 1 death per day and the USA was at 350 per day (and Uttar Pradesh has 65% of the population of the USA), that there was media blackout on Uttar Pradesh.
        
        When well north of 225 people per day were being saved by Ivermectin in Uttar Pradesh, our media chose to run stories about how bad deaths were in India with no mention of Uttar Pradesh.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:29pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Don Beckett
        
        Japan is where Avermectin (thc compound in Ivermectin) was discovered growing naturally in the soil. It may not be a coincidence that that area of Japan is also one of the four “Blue Zones” in the world.
        
        A Blue Zone is where a significant portion of the people live to over 100, and in good health.
        
        Traces of Avermectin are found in Japanese Green Tea grown in these areas, and no doubt other edible products.
        
        Since Japan was the original home of Ivermectin/Avermectin and its benefits, are probably as well known in Japan as Green Lipped Muscles and their health derivative benefits are in NZ.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:42pm
  - I remember when
    
    BY:
    You are right nobody is interested now.
    However, do we need to keep the argument in mind because it could happen again with some future medical event.
    It is interesting that we have a multitude of products to choose from, with little real identification of their merits or potential downsides.
    Missed opportunities?
    Or, not wanting to upset their supporters.
    
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    January 8, 2023 1:53pm
  - rouppe
    
    I know a guy who had a significant negative reaction to the second covid shot. Debilitating headaches, significant bowel issues, vomiting. Affected his ability to work.
    
    Had loads of doctor consultations. Not one had an answer. He specifically asked them about the Pfizer shot, and not one would admit that it could be that.
    
    The only medication offered plain pain killers. Six months on, no change, and doctors offered nothing.
    
    So he sourced his own Ivermectin (for human consumption) because he couldn’t get the health system to help him. Within 4 hours of taking the first dose, his symptoms had significantly reduced, and he is now completely free of those symptoms.
    
    You have to question just who any doctor that refuses to consider it is trying to protect when nothing else is working.
    
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    January 8, 2023 3:08pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Had loads of doctor consultations. Not one had an answer. He specifically asked them about the Pfizer shot, and not one would admit that it could be that…
      
      …You have to question just who any doctor that refuses to consider it is trying to protect when nothing else is working.
      
      It was made clear to the medical profession that if they went against the govt narrative, there would be consequences. And in some cases where GPs were up front about it, they lost their licenses, and subsequently their businesses, were vilified by the media as anti-vaxxers, and censured.
      
      I do not condone GPs and specialists not speaking up, but I understand the pressure they were/are under. While it should be a simple thing to tell the truth, the govt had them by the gonads and was squeezing them hard enough to make their eyes water. Many had to consider not just their own incomes and mortgages, but the incomes and mortgages of dozens of staff in their clinics.
      
      If your GP or specialist trusted you, and had an “off the record” conversation, they would be up front. But not knowing where you stood was dangerous. As happened in many cases, pro vaccine “spys” or “media whores” pretending to be “anti-vaxxers” got the Doctors to drop their guard, and then dobbed them in.
      
      The same fear exists with the massive and rapidly growing number of people with vaccine injuries. If the average socially active person does not have 5-10 people they directly know who have vaccine injuries, then they must be living in a cave and only having shallow conversations, avoiding the elephant in the room.
      
      I know pro-vaxxers who state they know no-one who has vaccine injuries. Which is partially true from their perspective, but ironic because I have friends/relatives/suppliers/clients in common that have vaccine injuries. The issue here is that Bob (name changed) one of the pro-vaxxers, has drunk so much Vaccine Koolaid and scathing of anyone who has not drunk the Koolaid, that no-one with Vaccine injuries trust him or his mates any more, so they keep their injuries to themselves.
      
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      January 8, 2023 4:08pm
    - Keith White
      
      Those of us who will not toe the line with the Medical Council get banned. It’s really quite effective… put up and shut up, or speak out and move out 🙂
      
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      January 9, 2023 5:52am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    This might help BY
    
    https://www.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/health/ivermectin-is-safe-and-effective-the-evidence_4944960.html
    
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    January 8, 2023 4:09pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  KK – didn’t the contract with Pfizer specifically prevent other competing treatments being supplied? Though when Medsafe confiscated and destroyed mine at the border they informed me they were doing it to protect me from dodgy drugs.
  When I replied that they hadn’t bothered to do that with the Pfizer crap I got no response. Funny that.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:26am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t think that the contract with Pfizer is available publicly.
    
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    January 8, 2023 8:30am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      BY – there was a “leaked” copy of the Albanian contract that was made public over a year ago that was the subject of a controversial Twitter thread. A link to the purported contract was available as a PDF. 52 pages and it looks legitimate.
      
      https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20616251-albanian-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-contract
      
      There were a lot of people studying it to try and verify the authenticity. The widely held view was that it was probably legitimate, that it was a generic contract document and the main clauses would have been the same in all countries. There would only have been minor differences around things like pricing.
      
      The agreement also had a clause that did not allow countries to terminate the contract with Pfizer if any other drug is found to be effective in the treatment of COVID-19. The Twitter user wondered this clause could have been one of the reasons why countries started pulling the rug out on Ivermectin even though statistics showed the drug was fairly effective in treating COVID-19 related complications.
      
      https://www.opindia.com/2021/07/pfizer-contract-with-albania-for-covid-19-vaccines-raises-eyebrows-details/
      
      “The contracts offer a rare glimpse into the power one pharmaceutical corporation has gained to silence governments, throttle supply, shift risk and maximise profits in the worst public health crisis in a century,” Zain Rizvi, the author of the report, said.
      
      “Pfizer’s demands have generated outrage around the world, slowing purchase agreements and even pushing back the delivery schedule of vaccines.”
      
      Some countries signed contracts, waiving “immunity against [Pfizer’s] precautionary seizure of any of [their] assets”, including Brazil, Chile, Colombia and the Dominican Republic.
      
      The Brazilian government was prohibited from making “any public announcement concerning the existence, subject matter or terms of [the] agreement” or commenting about its relationship with Pfizer, unless it had the company’s prior written consent.
      
      https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-10-20/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-contracts/100553958
      
      Obviously it isn’t complete proof of anything, but it makes compelling reading.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:08am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The irony is that the vaccine proved pretty useless when compared to the original claims. Yet I do not recall a single politician acknowledging the emerging evidence. Jacinda would still claim today that the vaccine stops transmission. In a country with 2 million COVID infections and a 95 percent vaccination rate. It is like everyone lost their minds. Probably unprecedented, certainly in the last century.
        
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        January 8, 2023 9:43am
      - virtualmark
        
        Whose claims?
        
        Chippie and Ardern’s claims? All politicians lie. Continuously.
        
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        January 8, 2023 9:54am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Clan it is my understanding that one of the conditions for the Pfizer vaccine to receive the emergency rush through was that there had to be no existing alternative treatments. Hence the hysteria that occurred when any were put forward. One would have thought in the grip of such a terrible ( sarc) pandemic governments would have promoted anything that helped. But no not a mention of vitamin c and d or zinc exercising diet.just vaccines. Biggest transfer of wealth from the public purse to the private ever. Hopefully one day it will all come out and people will go to prison.
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:09am
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Benedict, I don’t believe they got to 95% the only source of that number is the governments own marketing statistics, and I just don’t believe them. I know way too many people not playing the game. I’d have to go digging but there was some external analysis a year or so back that put the real number at between 60 and 70%.
        
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        January 8, 2023 11:40am
  - Rodney Hide
    
    I could be wrong, but I understand that to have the jab skip through the regulatory hoops as emergency use it was necessary for there to be no alternative treatment. That was the case here and for other countries. That is my understanding but I haven’t checked the legislation and process myself.
    
    Rodney Hide
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:24am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You are correct.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:43am
    - JackRabbit
      
      …to have the jab skip through the regulatory hoops as emergency use it was necessary for there to be no alternative treatment.
      
      Rodney, can I make an amendment.
      
      to have the jab skip through the regulatory hoops as emergency use it was necessary to ensure there was no alternative treatment.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:53am
      - Rodney Hide
        
        Even better!
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:55am
    - Deane Jessep
      
      You are correct Rodney. I watched this play out in real time. In April 2021 I spent 6 days in hospital with Viral Myocarditis (before the vaccine program). This caused me to take a very close look at the data. I eventually chose not to get vaccinated; and suddenly found myself on the wrong side of society.
      
      The great part of this is that I gained clarity and objectivity. I was actively (and for good reason) looking for other treatments, preventatives, etc. And got to experience the government one by one shutting down every avenue.
      
      By way of example, my best mates a GP and he even lost the ability to prescribe Ivermectin for it’s primary use. There is now an epidemic of scabies running wild in NZ.
      
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      January 8, 2023 11:48am
      - Alan Wilkinson
        
        Medsafe is a vile control freak pestilence that grossly infringes our human rights and does far more harm than good.
        
        A decent government would abolish it forthwith.
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:42pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Alan Wilkinson
        
        Indeed. Medsafe abandoned test and measurement standards a long time ago.
        
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        January 8, 2023 4:11pm
  - virtualmark
    
    No
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:40am
    - virtualmark
      
      And clearly demonstrably no given we purchased 4 different vaccines plus anti-virals like Paxlovid.
      
      What the contract did say was that it’s basically a take or pay – so you’re on the hook to pay for the doses ordered even if you don’t end up using them because a better option becomes available in the future.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:57am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    The Emergency Usage Authorisation given in the USA (and hence all the copy cat government EUAs around the world) was issued on the basis that there where no other viable treatments.
    
    IF Ivermectin was acknowledged as effective as a preventive therapy for, or remedy when infected with, COVID19 – then the EUA would have been revoked.
    
    THEN Pzifer and the other Big COVID19 vaccine makers lose a lot of money AND make very little from Ivermectin production as its off patent so can be made anywhere at minor cost
    
    Just a theory, but perfectly logical why Ivermectin was attacked in the manner it was by Pharmas attack dogs in the media – with little to no acknowledgement of its long and safe usage.
    
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    January 8, 2023 11:14am
    - virtualmark
      
      Well, either (a) Pfizer is so omnipotent that it can bend all Western governments to its will or (b) Ivermectin wasn’t/isn’t a viable treatment.
      
      I know which of those options many here believe.
      
      But I’m intrigued to learn just what it is you think Pfizer hold over our Government. Really, this is sure to be fun …
      
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      January 8, 2023 12:35pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Oh, and just how deep does this Pfizer conspiracy go? Who’s in on it? Just which Kiwis are selling out their country by forcing us to buy Pfizer’s vaccines instead of cheaper and more effective Ivermectin?
        
        Man, I’m glad you keyboard warriors are here to protect us all by exposing these secrets.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:53pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “I’m intrigued to learn just what it is you think Pfizer hold over our Government.”
        
        Hidden from the government’s employers. Nothing to worry about. /
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:32pm
      - I remember when
        
        “so omnipotent that it can bend all Western governments to its will”
        That was fear of the consequences of their actions treating covid not Pfizer use.
        That may be in the process of changing.
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:07pm
      - Rodney Hide
        
        Hi Virtual Mark
        
        The drug companies have huge sway over the medical professions and their publications. They do so by funding them.
        
        The drug companies have huge sway over research: they do so by funding the labs and the research.
        
        The drug companies have huge sway over doctors: they do so by funding their lectures and their conferences etc.
        
        The drug companies have huge sway over the news outlets because … they fund them.
        
        The drug companies have huge sway over politicians because ….
        
        And the regulators are readily in cahoots with the drug companies. They are symbiotic.
        
        Anthony Fauci was as close to omnipotent by the funding he controlled: he could and did destroy careers going back to the 1980s simply because Professors disagreed with his drug recommendations.
        
        I note that Sam Bankman-Fried funded the major study showing ivermectin ineffective against covid.
        
        I have witnessed first hand the distortion of science. Through the 1980s and 90s (and probably still) funding proposals that mentioned global warming got funding; those that didn’t struggled.
        
        So you might be studying amphibian habitat. The proposal would end up tying it back to global warming. And then Maori tikanga. And so on.
        
        Do you think a proposal to test the reality of global would get funding? Of course, not.
        
        Your a and b options work like this: Pfizer had billions behind it; Ivermectin not a dollar.
        
        I don’t know whether Ivermectin is effective or not. But I do readily understand how news, professionals, politicians and the public can be nudged. And so too do drug companies. They are the best marketeers in the business.
        
        They are hundred times better at marketing drugs than they are at making them!
        
        There’s your answer.
        
        Rodney Hide
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:41pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Rodney,
        
        I know the linkages between Big Pharma and the medical establishment. I’m realistic about the symbiosis there.
        
        But are you joining in on the Kiwiblog conspiracy theory that medical experts, officials and politicians were all so in thrall of Big Pharma that they spent billions of dollars on ineffective vaccines when they could instead have spent a pittance on Ivermectin?
        
        You used to be a serious thinker. I struggle to believe you would have jumped the shark so badly as to agree with that paragraph above.
        
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        January 9, 2023 8:46am
- Simon
  
  Govt. was all in on the jaxx. There was supposed to be govt monopoly on how to handle covid,
  Couldnt have the proles work out things outside the state. It would detract from the glorious State handling of the “deadly pandemic”
  
  The govt path was elimination through border closure, house arrest etc then jaxx everyone to stop the virus in its tracks. All hail the mighty Govt and state planning.
  
  Zero covid nutjobs, Labour & National, all in on the glory of the modern state planning and state management of technology. The proles should just shut up and obey orders. We have got this. Garbage.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:33am
- krazykiwi
  
  Benedict: Thanks for the OIA info. Makes interesting reading. It appears Ivermectin was effectively blocked via a decree of the Wold Health Organisation.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:34am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Another fizzer in the anonymous conspiracy chain.
    
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    January 8, 2023 8:51am
    - JackRabbit
      
      I know a number of people overseas, that having had double or triple doses of the Covid-19 immune depressant catalyst i.e the vaccine, came as close to death as you can possibly get. Their lives were saved by generous doses of Ivermectin, zinc etc, because the vaccine didn’t work.
      
      If you wear triple condoms but your wife still gets pregnant, all is not what it seems. If you get triple vaxxed and you still see a death scythe pass the window and hear a knock at the door, priorities change.
      
      Brian, you can afford to be as generous as you like with your opinions and your off-hand claims of “conspiracy theories”. Until your life is hanging in the balance and the grim reaper is breaking down the door.
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:36am
    - I remember when
      
      Aren’t all conspiracy chains Anonymous.
      
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      January 8, 2023 2:10pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Correct
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:44am
- Scott
  
  Quite right krazy. I cited this study on Kiwiblog recently –
  
  “In a meta-analysis of 63 studies of ivermectin versus COVID-19 in humans, 100% of these have shown positive results. Over the 63 studies in meta-analysis, pooled effects showed 69% improvement in early treatment, and prophylactic use showed 86% improvement. Of those studies in the meta-analysis that were peer-reviewed, overall improvement in early treatment was found to be 70% (64% in randomized controlled trials), and 86% of those in which ivermectin was used prophylactically showed improvement (84% in randomized controlled trials).
  Mortality from COVID-19 over all time periods of delay in treatment was 76% improved over controls (69% in randomized controlled trials), whereas mortality was improved 84% in early treatment of COVID-19 (82% in randomized controlled trials). ”
  https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2022/12/why-free-speech-is-important.php
  
  That last line is particularly significant, “mortality was improved 84% in early treatment of covid 19!”
  There just seems to be a conspiracy that the only treatment is vaccination? Nothing else is any good? And it’s not just our government of Socialist control freaks. Most of the Western world has fallen into this trap.
  
  I would hope that a royal commission of enquiry would look closely into these things.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:45am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The terms of reference of the Royal Commission are quite narrow. It won’t look at that.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:45am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Banned because Jaspinda wanted the Vaccine way to use here ‘fear porn.’
  Ivermectin would have taken that from her.
  Doctors also had pressure – from the MOH I guess.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:45am
  - glowworm
    
    Early on, before the injectables, I attempted to import Ivermectin from India!
    
    I figured having some in the cupboard could be a good insurance plan.
    
    Received a letter a few weeks later, from customs, who would only release it with a doctors prescription…
    
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    January 8, 2023 12:05pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      I got mine from Singapore through the mail – only 20 tabs, so they fitted in a normal mail enveloppe. My friend got the same 2 weeks later.
      
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      January 8, 2023 12:34pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Dear Leader and the other clowns wouldn’t have a clue in a global emergency. They would have just turned to THEIR trusted sources bubble and ran with what they were told.
    
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    January 8, 2023 1:35pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Tabulation of 193 studies on ivermectin, judge for yourself. Results indicates that prophylactic use (ie take all the time so that is in your system when infected) is fairly effective, but taking it after symptoms appears to help little. This makes sense if it is behaving as an antiviral and slowing replication rate after infection. By the time symptoms show viral load is near peak and in equilibrium with immune system response, too late for antivirals to help significantly.
  
  https://c19ivm.org/meta.html
  
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  January 8, 2023 11:05am
- Ian Boag
  
  Brazil. Had a heap of deaths early on. Handed out ivermectin like lollies with no reports of overwhelming success. One of the Indian states did something similar with a reported success rate of over 90% (?)
  
  Go figure …
  
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  January 8, 2023 11:50am
  - Ghost
    
    But were the deaths real? I’m reminded of one hospital that had a huge amount of deaths in Brazil, when investigated the hospital hadn’t even finished construction, no patients, no staff, just fraud to get more funding
    
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    January 8, 2023 12:00pm
- An Old Kiwi
  
  As well as banning cheap meds which would have helped at least some, there seems to be little understanding today by Joe Public of what people did in the past, to recover from colds/flu, eg
  Rest
  Get plenty of sunshine & fresh air (Instead this govt locked inside, sick people), and
  Fluids (eg chicken soup)
  Vitamin C
  
  IMO, people today too much trust “science” (not the real kind), meaning whichever expensive meds the pharma companies are pushing at the moment. They should instead be helping their bodies to be as healthy as possible, and so be able to recover quickly without hospitals etc.
  
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  January 9, 2023 12:49pm
Bridgenag

NSW has a solution for inconvenient Covid data

https://open.substack.com/pub/inumero/p/covid-data-here-today-gone-tomorrow?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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January 8, 2023 8:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  Disappearing contra-Narrative data and then pointing out the absence of contra-Narrative data has been a hallmark of the Narrative cabal masters in government, media, and big pharma.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:39am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    “Narrative cabal masters in government” Won’t the sewerage pump start today?
    
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    January 8, 2023 8:53am
    - Its only I
      
      That pumps not self priming so your comment is the proverbial primer suck that’s required. KK may thank you later with a breath mint or three.
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:11am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    For those who enjoy data and number crunching etc, you may appreciate this link.
    
    https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com/p/the-devils-advocate-an-exploratory
    
    The Devil’s Advocate
    So, we downed tools on other projects and decided to look at the data to see if we could repeat the analysis and also broaden the hypotheses being tested. After all, blaming the vaccines is a pretty big claim to make. We therefore wanted to act as the ‘Devil’s Advocate’ and ask whether there was evidence to support ALTERNATIVE causes of excess deaths, NOT the vaccination programme.
    
    The alternative hypotheses to test are somewhat obvious:
    
    Covid-19 occurring in 2022 causing undiagnosed covid deaths in 2022
    
    So-called long-covid contracted in 2020/21 causing death in 2022
    
    Stringency of lockdown measures in 2020/21 causing additional deaths in 2022
    
    Healthcare quality influencing or mitigating excess deaths
    
    And finally, we need to also include….
    
    The covid vaccinations administered in late-2020 and 2021 are causing excess deaths in 2022
    
    We decided to explore these hypotheses for weeks 1-44 of 2022, testing simple linear regression models for world-wide data, looking at the whole time period but also splitting it into periods where covid was prevalent, declining and at a minimum (in the summer). We split the year into discrete temporal periods to separate out any covid signal, from other signals, including vaccination, to identify potential causes of excess deaths. The idea being that if a cause is absent or negligible, yet the effect persists, then there must be some other causal explanation at play. So, if there is no covid around then what is killing people? Is it the vaccines? Is it the consequence of lockdown? Or is it long-covid?
    
    All of the data used is from published government sources. Obviously, covid deaths and the reported case rates are doctrinally defined, so the biases are baked into official statistics. Readers familiar with our output know we have more-than-just-qualms about this data, and whether covid is as deadly as claimed. We are therefore giving a HUGE benefit of the doubt to the other side of the argument here. So, any outcome is all the more damning if, acting as the Devil’s Advocate, and using the devil’s twisted definitions, the devil still loses the argument.
    
    It’s long, it’s detailed, the results aren’t good for the devil. Well worth reading.
    
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    January 8, 2023 11:03am
- kevn
  
  @Bridge… Amazing ‘solution’. To be buried forever. Stats and bodies.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:21am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Bridgenag – It’s happening everywhere. Watch Dr John Campbell in this Youtube video discussing data from Swindon that was received via an OIA request.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl6PK-uMn-I&t=610s
  
  The original data which he discussed yesterday on his Youtube channel showed very high rates of people presenting with heart conditions in the Swindon area. Over 59,000 and showing massive increases in 2021 and 2022 over previous years.
  
  Within 12 hours, the health authorities contacted the person who had requested the original OIA and said, “whoops, we made a bit of a mistake” and gave him new data which showed that apparently nothing untoward had happened at all, and that the last couple of year’s figures were exactly the same as prior to covid striking and the vaccine rollout.
  
  One weird problem with the new data provided. Apparently only a total of 344 people presented with myocarditis or pericarditis over the previous 3 years. But apparently 714 were discharged with these conditions over the same period………of course nobody is suggesting anyone is fiddling with the data.
  It just happens that Swindon has a super efficient hospital. 🤡
  
  As John points out with very dry sarcasm, the “new” data proves Swindon is a very. very, very lucky place. They haven’t suffered any excess of pericarditis or myocarditis at all! Astonishing, as every other place in the country has seen an increase of both!
  
  I’m moving to Swindon……..miracle workers.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Off topic. Swindon is that place with a ridiculous roundabout. Roundabouts within roundabout.
    I have not been there, just seen photos.
    https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=swindon+roundabout&view=detail&mid=B8CED548EE87776F7FACB8CED548EE87776F7FAC&FORM=VIRE
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Look at the deaths increase with age. Did they die with Covid, or from Covid?
  Another thing is the age relationship with the 1, 2, 3, 4 vaxes/boosters not shown.
  Then there is the indeterminate sex. There is always one off their rocker, making a point.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:53am
kevn

@kk… “Incredibly cheap” could be answer. No big money sloshing around.
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January 8, 2023 8:16am
Tomtoddy

“Incredibly cheap” – there, answered it for you.
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January 8, 2023 8:16am
peterwn

See:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/130855409/116k-in-penalties-for-dunedin-firms-treatment-of-three-vulnerable-workers

Time has come in my opinion to hold companies like Chorus (and directors) accountable where its contractors like Visionstream effectively breach employment law. In this case Visionstream sub-contracted the work to a small employer who was in serious breach of employment conditions. It may well be in that case that the small employer cannot meet the pay arrears and penalties awarded against it. It is very similar to the numerous cases of liquor stores who employ migrant workers and grossly underpay them. Indeed it may be quite appropriate for the Police to investigate companies and individuals involved with this for proceeds of crime recoveries.
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January 8, 2023 8:22am
- Simon
  
  “It is very similar to the numerous cases of liquor stores who employ migrant workers and grossly underpay them”
  
  You are out of touch. There is an immigration racket involved. Employer sponsors the employee with work that gets them into NZ or lets them stay. To stop them having to return to some third world shit hole. Thats remuneration and how it works. There are thousands like this for ever case that gets in front of labour Dept. In this article this is standard NZ business practice.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:44am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Perhaps it is similar to cases where large organizations (courier firms, etc) purport to employ ‘independent’ contractors in order to avoid usual employment laws and practices.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:12am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Poor old mike. Showing his abject ignorance yet again. And has the nads to claim Jim Jordan has no shame. Contracting IS usual employment law and practice.
      
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      January 8, 2023 9:42am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        He has never had a ‘real job’ so would not know – other than what the google machine tells him.
        
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        January 8, 2023 9:59am
      - virtualmark
        
        Yes, where the contractor works for multiple clients and is able to set their own hours, processes, tools etc.
        
        But when the “contractor” works exclusively for one company, and that company dictates the hours, tools etc the this is a grey area in our employment laws.
        
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        January 8, 2023 10:00am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Virtualmark, the contractor/single employer dictating terms is not that grey anymore. The courts have found in the instance of courier drivers that they are employees and that they are entitled to the minimum legal rights as per the law for wages, holidays, and sick leave.
        
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        January 8, 2023 8:15pm
    - rouppe
      
      Having been a salaried employee for 35 years, enjoying all those lovely employment practices, I was made redundant twice.
      
      The first time was the day the INCIS contract was dissolved. I expected to go back into the IBM offices and get put on another job. But no… Bang!
      
      Second time the bank did an IT restructure. Effectively they renamed a bunch of roles and let go the roles no longer on the list. We all knew what roles they targeted, though they denied it. I was in one of those roles because I’d succumbed to the “in five years” bullshit.
      
      All through those 35 years I had to deal with the various HR departments. Interminable “feedback” which only flowed in one direction. A myopic assumption that you didn’t like what you were doing and that “in five years time” you must be wanting to be doing something else.
      
      Last 2 ½ years I’ve been contracting in the industry I originally started doing the sort of job I enjoy the most. Don’t get paid when I’m sick. Don’t get paid on holiday. Don’t get paid over Christmas. No HR. No back stabbing for promotions. No mandatory “social engineering” training modules.
      
      I love it.
      
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      January 8, 2023 3:43pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Immigration racket? yes. There is a mens barber in Glenfield. Guys there from around the Middle East/India, one from Italy, and one Asian guy. Nice guys, and yes, they do know how to cut hair.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:58am
  - peterwn
    
    In the Visionstream subcontractor case a prospective employee had to pay the employer $1000 to land a job. That is highly illegal and to put it bluntly is racketeering. It is quite possible Visionstream sub-contractors are running immigration rackets and Chorus and Visionstram take a Sergeant Schultz attitude to this. It would be good to be proved wrong.
    
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    January 8, 2023 12:27pm
- PeeJay
  
  I’ve always been amazed at the lax attitude in NZ to financial irregularities.
  
  In construction, I’ve seen really dodgy practice carried out, sometimes on a weekly basis, and nothing ever gets done – almost treated like victimless crime! I’ve had a friend in an adjudication meeting where a contractor signed timesheets during the actual meeting (they were unsigned therefore invalid as per the conditions of the contract) and the adjudicator accepted them because they were now signed! My friend won the subsequent court action but still incredible that this was allowed. I’ve seen so many instances myself – from duplicate invoices through to ridiculous timesheets (once had a contractor claim one guy did 48hrs in a 24hr stretch – completely forgot our firm was on a lot of their projects!). Every time these things are caught, no action, just a shrug.
  
  In other jurisdictions I’ve worked in, UK, Ireland etc, financial irregularities are taken very seriously – heck I’ve got friends in the US that say some prison sentences for fraud are greater than some murder convictions (Bernie Madoff etc).
  
  Just seems to be very little appetite to investigate fraud in NZ.
  
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  January 8, 2023 1:38pm
Cinematic

Heading north this morning. Auckland to Paihia. Pot holes by the hundreds or thousands? Time will tell.
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January 8, 2023 8:28am
- Nickc2
  
  They’re commonly known as Cindy’s Revenge!
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:43am
- krazykiwi
  
  I drove that way recently and encountered potholes that would have left archeologists in dewy-eyed admiration.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:44am
- Mike H S
  
  The weather forecast for Tuesday up north is abominable. Heavy rain and strong winds around the BoI. Take care and prepare for a day inside on Tuesday.
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:46am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Mike H S – If you have agreed to pay climate tax, then the weather would have behaved….just sayin…
    
    14 1
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    January 8, 2023 11:48am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Be prepared to test your landing skills ( particularly around Hikurangi bypass) – there may or may not be a warning sign!
  
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  January 8, 2023 8:54am
  - Matt Long
    
    Also watch out for the highly lucrative speed camera by the kauri rail overpass north of Kamo
    
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    January 8, 2023 11:33am
- kevn
  
  @Cine… Get your passenger to do pot hole spotting while you focus on driving and looking out for other pot hole dodging drivers coming toward you.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:08am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Doubt if even a WRC co-driver would be able to keep up with the warnings kevn – even at legal speeds 🙂
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:23am
    - Drone
      
      Hence the urgent need to reduce the speed on all roads..
      
      6 3
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      January 8, 2023 12:22pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        No, the urgent need is to fix the bloody roads which has been neglected – possibly deliberately. Most sensible drivers will reduce speed where necessary, driving to the conditions – they don’t need nanny state to impose on them.
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:53pm
- Inandout
  
  Cin, flying is far safer and cheaper because car suspension repairs can be very expensive.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Photograph some, count them and send results to waka coathanger.
  Bet you don’t get a reply, or maybe a standard generated one.
  
  12 1
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  January 8, 2023 10:02am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9aJqM_-vpg

You Won’t BELIEVE What McCarthy Just Did to Become SPEAKER!

McCarthy is the Speaker at last. Better still, he is a MAGA sock puppet. The house is the only part of government the GOP controls. So they have to make the most of this. Time for the investigations to begin. The GOP caucus wants to drain the swamp.
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January 8, 2023 8:36am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The republican majority, and especially leadership, is now weakened and in thrall to the fringyist of the fringe ‘freedom caucus’.
  As they will be unable to legislate for anything, yes, they will start investigations into everything. The major popcorn event will be what they do about the debt ceiling. Some of the crazies want the US to default on its debts.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:16am
  - Inandout
    
    m&m, and I am sure the sky is going to fall.
    
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    January 8, 2023 9:20am
- Alex
  
  Curry,
  Most Republicans don’t want MC.C. As speaker but as Trump said best of a bad lot,they’re all the same the Uniparty,
  Look at it the eye patch congressman another one of the swamp..
  We’ve got the swamp here too.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I read somewhere (email I think) that Trump phoned two people and told them to vote McCarthy or else. Any truth in that?
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:11am
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/06/us/politics/trump-calls-gaetz-mccarthy.html
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:15am
    - Mike
      
      Gaetz was possibly threatened with no tockers to Miss Teen America.
      
      5 14
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      January 8, 2023 10:25am
      - Jack5
        
        Milky’s …no tockers to Miss Teen America…
        
        A Freudian ~~slip~~ cock-up there, eh Milky? 🙃
        
        https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tocker
        
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        January 8, 2023 1:45pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Even though Trump is not Leader of the Republican Party he still has clout.
      Trump 2024. MAGA.
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:54am
Nickc2

Hark! What’s that great silence sweeping Kiwiblog this morning?
Oh, it must be those ‘never Kevin McCarthy’ scribes who couldn’t help themselves bagging the US Republicans over the past few days eh?
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January 8, 2023 8:40am
- Alex
  
  Nick,
  I am a “”Never Kev” myself, he should not be Speaker he doesn’t represent grass roots Republicans he is a swamp creature.
  But then most of the Republicans in Congress are..
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:36am
  - Nickc2
    
    Please provide a recognised definition of ‘Grass Roots Republican.’
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:03am
    - Its only I
      
      I bet most can describe a democrat down to its socks, but a republican?…nope.
      
      One side has majority the other “investigates”. Every few years they swap roles with their media teams doing the same. Pathetic
      Either way national debt grows faster than their butter/cheese mountains and quality of life drains faster than lake mead.
      
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      January 8, 2023 10:37am
Scooter

There are just too many twitter comments out there exploding over Harry’s book (we need Maggie back to filter the best) but here’s one. At least this freak show of a book might distract from covid.

What an arse bragging about killing 25 Taliban who he said were chess pieces on a board.

https://twitter.com/WendtheWalker/status/1611749451701575681?t=2tP92Qv4g-7NndLWVLVEzQ&s=19
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January 8, 2023 8:41am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Well summed up in the accompanying meme…
  
  https://twitter.com/KoanuiFarming/status/1611787481325899777
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Wonder if Facebook fact checkers will delete that or throw me in jail?
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:18am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Poor Karen Petals. Fake News Tee pulled. How long before these wimps start up in NZ, or have I missed it?
She wrote: “This isn’t funny or fashionable. It further delegitimizes hard-working journalists who bring REAL news to their communities.”
https://thepatriotnation.net/a-top-store-is-forced-to-pull-a-top-selling-shirt-because-one-customer-complained/
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January 8, 2023 8:49am
- JackRabbit
  
  In an alternate universe:
  
  She wrote: “This isn’t funny or fashionable. Govt telling people not to listen to your GP when it comes to making a decision and getting informed consent over the Covid vaccine. It delegitimizes hard-working GPs who place the health of their patients before the profits of big Pharma.”
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

With all the PC nonsense going on, here is something different – a tear jerker.
https://thepatriotnation.net/she-refused-to-pull-the-plug-on-her-man-then-after-years-he-woke-up/
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January 8, 2023 8:57am
Alex

Putin wants ceasefire for Orthodox Christmas on now January 7.
But Oleksiy Danilov Ukraine Secutity Chief tweeted “What does a bunch of Kremlin devils have to do with the Christian holiday of Christmas.”
France has crossed the Rubicon by giving Ukraine “light tanks” AMX-10RC. Others will follow as they think Ukraine can win.
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January 8, 2023 8:59am
- Lance
  
  Soooooooooo Putin wanted a ‘Christmas’ cease fire for the righteousness of the gesture…. yea right.
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:54am
mikenmildagain

How about some positive news for a Sunday morning?
Warmest greetings to anyone in New Orleans worshipping their favorite idol – our lady of perpetual succor.
If that’s not your kind of thing, just enjoy a happy World Typing Day 2023.
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January 8, 2023 9:02am
- bjools
  
  Ardern has fallen in the polls?
  
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  January 8, 2023 11:40am
- Jack5
  
  Milky’s “on this day” posts often trigger a quick internet dip to see what else happened on this day.
  
  I found that, on January 8, 1310, the Thames froze over in London. This was during the 14th century mini-Ice Age.
  
  On this day 713 years ago (260,410 days ago) Londoners lit bonfires on the river.
  
  According to Brittanica, “Little Ice Age” is mostly applied to the period 1300–1850. It followed the “Medieval Warming Period” (roughly 900AD to 300AD) and preceded present warming that began in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
  
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  January 8, 2023 2:06pm
Alex

Only Poland and Czech Republic had sent tanks to Ukraine, mainly old Soviet ones.
France has changed its tune on Putin once saying don’t humiliate him.
Now seems to be biggest supporter of Ukraine in Europe.
Taken by over from Britain, now Boris not around.
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January 8, 2023 9:13am
- Jack5
  
  If Putin were assassinated or overthrown, the danger is he might be followed in the power seat by Yevgeny Prigozhin, founder of Russia’s international contract mercenary group, Wagner.
  
  The thought of Prigozhin controlling international nuclear missiles is scary: North Korea times a hundred.
  
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  January 8, 2023 2:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Elon Musk v FBI. Targeting those in the FBI who lied. Musk supports the FBI, but there is a certain part that is corrupt. What better person to do this? Watch your back Elon Musk, these people are ruthless. Keep your eye on Killary as well.
https://gopnewsfeed.com/he-just-completely-shredded-the-fbi/
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January 8, 2023 9:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Is it your love of electric cars that makes you admire Elon Musk so much?
  
  5 37
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  January 8, 2023 9:18am
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    Is it your inherent nihilism that powers your love of the snark? Day after day…..
    
    30 5
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    January 8, 2023 9:42am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      SC, there have been a good few studies done that show people on the left of the political spectrum are quite a bit more miserable than those on the right. So mikes comments are generally par for that course.
      
      29 5
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      January 8, 2023 9:51am
  - RightNow
    
    Omg are you Elonphobic?
    
    16 4
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    January 8, 2023 9:48am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Elon bought twitter and hung out it’s filthy corrupt lefty laundry for all to see. So now the loons hate him.
      
      16 4
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      January 8, 2023 11:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Musk is a billionaire – you are not.
    
    17 4
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    January 8, 2023 10:20am
    - Mike
      
      Please provide a short list of bullionaires to admire.
      
      3 27
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      January 8, 2023 10:28am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        [Mod – no need for that steve]
        
        9 3
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        January 8, 2023 10:58am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Mod. He really is being an annoying shit this morning.
        
        17 7
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        January 8, 2023 11:42am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Mike/Milky whatever multiple bots/persons, that does raise a serious point. Whatever happened to the concept of anti-trust?? We have these hideously bloated bully platforms completely corrupting what was previously known as democracy and completely distorting markets.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:24pm
Tony Stuart

The Wellington Phoenix pulled off possibly the gutsiest win of their history last night, beating Sydney FC 1-nil. That was despite two red cards against them, eight minutes of added time, and two very dubious penalties awarded against them in stoppage time. Oli Sail saved the first, and the second was blasted over the bar.

The officiating was abysmal, and if Ufuk Talay gets fined for any post-match comments, I will personally organise a Givealittle page to pay his fine!
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January 8, 2023 9:24am
- virtualmark
  
  New Zealand teams in Australian competitions will never get a fair run from Australian refs.
  
  IMO the biggest difference between Australian and Kiwi cultures is that the Aussies have no concept of “fair play”. (Honourable exception for Adam Gilchrist).
  
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  January 8, 2023 9:47am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Lol, honourable exception for Gilchrist? Why? Please don’t tell me he was a full time walker, because he walked some of the time. And on top of that, he was often a farcical appealer, particularly off Warne in tests.
    No Australian first class cricketer walks every time. The only place you find that is in the UK, and even that is considerably less prevalent now.
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You mean Aussies are like Democrats?
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:22am
    - Mike
      
      Aussies are Australasia’s Texans.
      
      7 12
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      January 8, 2023 10:30am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Inner Melbourne and inner Sydney are Australasia’s San Francisco/Portland (in terms of far left lunacy).
        
        18 4
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        January 8, 2023 11:39am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Please tell me about the best things in your chosen place of ‘exile’.
        
        4 19
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        January 8, 2023 12:32pm
  - MCōs
    
    We used to have some pretty ordinary cricket umpires in the good old days. Often to our advantage.
    However
    An Indian batter clearly knicked the ball, didn’t walk and was given not out maybe sixty years ago at Lancaster Park. Everyone heard it except the umpire and someone in the crowd yelled out
    How did your mother get you out?
    
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    January 8, 2023 10:45am
Jimbob

https://youtube.com/watch?v=RndBKEvl2LQ&feature=shares

A must watch.
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January 8, 2023 9:45am
Surely Knott

I’m confused.

Stuff’s polyamory article. Riddle me this.

Scout is polyamorous. Scout appears to be a female with long blonde hair. Scout uses they/their pronouns. Scout’s partner has a one penis policy (only one penis allowed).
Scout said ““I was only allowed to see women, I wasn’t allowed to see other men. It’s essentially called a ‘one penis policy’.””

Questions: Who currently has a penis in the relationship, Scout or their partner? They don’t give any details of Scout’s partner or their biological sex or gender. If Scout is only allowed to date females due to the one penis policy, are they assuming any future females don’t have penises and that any males would have a penis?.
Are they implying that being female equals not having a penis? And stuff is printing it? Is that transphobic?

Seems like they change the definition as it suits them. Just like the new vaccines definition.
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January 8, 2023 9:57am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I love the claim that monogamy was imposed by colonisation 🙄🙄🙄🙄
  
  I have no issues with people in polyamouris relationships if they are happy with that. However it is very rare. Stable, monogamous marriages are the norm in China, Taiwan, and in every developed nation.
  
  Stuff publishes complete rubbish. I can only hope it dies soon.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:10am
- Taieri
  
  I’m confused.
  ———–
  
  I was also confused, until reading that: “This is a Public Interest Journalism funded role through NZ On Air” at the end of this wonderful and most enlightening article.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    You mean Public Propaganda Public Interest Journalism.
    How do you think the $55 million is passed through to the media via New Zealand on Air (waiting for Maori name to hide it) ?
    
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    January 8, 2023 1:18pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Polyamory works so long as no-one falls in love and no longer wants to share intimacy that is exclusive to a commitment.
  
  “No you can’t come around tonight, I’m busy with Keith, Roger and Fred”.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:45am
- NZer In Exile
  
  This stuff is a red flag for me. Live and let and all that but I tend to avoid such people. They are in a stage of life I really do not want to be involved with if I can help it.
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:03pm
- than
  
  It’s things like this is why I no longer visit Stuffed.
  I occasionally do so at work given we have an ad block on the computers, preventing them from getting revenue.
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:09pm
Benedict Yu

What a tragedy. This beautiful young woman was murdered by a maniac released on parole for violent sexual offending. Corrections moved him into next door to her flat. Prior to her murder she was aware that he was observing her. If she had known of his background she could have run for the hills. What is worse is parole board acknowledged that he was at high risk of reoffending.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/129806897/man-who-murdered-christchurch-neighbour-was-on-parole-for-brutal-rape
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January 8, 2023 10:04am
- Southern Raider
  
  If you surf through Herald and Stuff there is an increasing number of violent assaults, rapes and murders carried out by serial offenders, but our Justice system keeps letting them out.
  
  We need a “victims first” approach to all sentencing and evil pricks like this guy need permanent incarceration at a dedicated facility in the middle of nowhere. The left needs to accept that no matter what courses or therapies you invest in there is a small but very violent part of society that just can’t be helped.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:26am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    We live in a fully saturated left wing idiocracy. It will take generations of fighting this crap hard for it to be sorted. Complacency and hoping it will go away won’t work.
    
    29 4
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    January 8, 2023 12:05pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Your place of exile is a ‘fully saturated left wing idiocracy’? You should come home at once.
      
      4 23
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      January 8, 2023 12:33pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        In this regard NZ is a basket case. Australia is about to become one. Canada is fkd, as are many other western nations.
        
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        January 8, 2023 12:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Who let him out? The Parole Board Members need to be named and shamed.
  They are responsible for this death.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:32am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You would think that a second rape and murder would mean life without parole. Apparantly not.
    
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    January 8, 2023 11:16am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Far too many of these people on Parole Boards do this, and walk away sharing no guilt.
      Just remember, the Net Taxpayer is paying them and we have no say.
      That is why I say the whole Public Sector needs to be broken down and the deadwood removed.
      
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      January 8, 2023 11:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Steve
        Here is the membership of the parole board:
        https://www.paroleboard.govt.nz/about_us/who
        Perhaps you could contact your favorite politicians and insist that they commit publicly to firing every member of the parole board if elected this year.
        
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        January 8, 2023 2:14pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Mike. Not many names that I know of, but those who I do recognise, I would say 80% should go. They all seem ti de the “Special K” sort
        
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        January 8, 2023 3:43pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ Mike, uptick for that sonny.
        
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        January 8, 2023 3:44pm
- Prince
  
  This is all the result of the ‘over-worked and under-rated’ (according to Stuff’s political ‘journalists’) Andrew Little’s Justice summit in 2018.
  Spending a few $M’s (twice the budget) on Labour luvvies to lead the discussion, along with a $65K catering bill and Alison Mau from ‘Stuff’ MC’ing, the summit agreed to a ‘central goal of reducing the prison population by 30 percent’.
  
  “At this stage (2018) Little was expected to take the first raft of proposals to Cabinet before the end of the year.Little said it would take time to see the full effect of the summit…”
  
  He’s right there, but we are now starting to reap the whirlwind. Just a pity about the victims. Oh well, never mind, Andy has moved onto Health now. So much to destroy, so Little time left.
  
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  January 8, 2023 11:58am
  - Jimmy Brown
    
    Meh, collateral damage.
    
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    January 8, 2023 4:36pm
- Deane Jessep
  
  Other than the horror of the crime the thing that makes me really wild is that bloody mask covering up his face.
  
  Our society has almost lost its soul. 😢
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:49pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Pretty sad to think it might be safer for her to have stayed in Columbia than moved to NZ.
  
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  January 8, 2023 6:12pm
Taieri

The wonderful world of Polyamory (for beginners?):

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/130649407/i-was-seeing-six-people-polyamory-often-misunderstood-can-also-be-freeing
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January 8, 2023 10:07am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Imagine having six romantic partners 😳😳 My one keeps me fully occupied.
  
  27 1
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  January 8, 2023 10:13am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    I doubt they are “romantic” partners. In most cases it’s social posers trying to be uber radical/bad-ass.
    
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    January 8, 2023 11:57am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Their passions rule them. Degenerate.
      
      8 4
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      January 8, 2023 12:53pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I’m partial to a bit of “degeneracy” (by puritan standards), within reason, now and again.
        
        4 4
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        January 8, 2023 1:23pm
- Deane Jessep
  
  “Dr Byron Rangiwai says that polyamory was practised in precolonial Aotearoa.”
  
  So was murder, rape, torture, cannibalism, etc. 🤷🏼‍♂️
  
  But hey, go ahead and tear down our value structures for the sake of your own narcissistic ego’s. What could possibly go wrong?
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:55pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    You forgot slavery
    
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    January 8, 2023 4:50pm
- Deane Jessep
  
  “Dr Byron Rangiwai says that polyamory was practised in precolonial Aotearoa.”
  
  So was murder, rape, torture, cannibalism, etc. 🤷🏼‍♂️
  
  But hey, go ahead and tear down our value structures for the sake of your own narcissistic ego’s. What could possibly go wrong?
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:57pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    “So was murder, rape, torture, cannibalism, etc.”
    
    Don’t forget slavery!!!
    
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    January 8, 2023 1:25pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Polyamory. murder, rape and torture are known in all human societies. But you had a point?
    
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    January 8, 2023 1:55pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Point being not so special and all-knowing mystical? Yep, that would be the one.
      
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      January 8, 2023 2:02pm
    - than
      
      Would you mikey like to revert back to precolonial times (in NZ) where one could get away with the latter 3 without punishment?
      
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      January 8, 2023 2:46pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I would suggest quite strongly that rape, murder or torture provoked quite strong reactions from victims’ relatives in pre-colonial times.
        
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        January 8, 2023 4:00pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “I would suggest quite strongly that rape, murder or torture provoked quite strong reactions from victims’ relatives in pre-colonial times.”
        
        An ongoing back and forth chain of Utu?
        
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        January 8, 2023 5:56pm
    - Deane Jessep
      
      You understood my point perfectly Mike. I won’t insult either of our intelligence by bothering to spell it out further.
      
      10 3
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      January 8, 2023 5:03pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Trolling is another one. And the point is none of them are desirable for a healthy society. Clearly something you just don’t get.
      
      8 3
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      January 8, 2023 6:04pm
  - HalfFull
    
    murder, rape, torture, cannibalism, etc
    
    I’m assuming etc includes slavery? else you missed it.
    
    Let the reparations begin I say.
    
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    January 8, 2023 2:42pm
    - Deane Jessep
      
      It was a catch-all yes. Speaking of Slavery:
      https://youtu.be/xU2KwlWL1Us
      
      4 1
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      January 8, 2023 5:01pm
Rusty

Lets hope the womens finals will go ahead today (outside) without rain delays at the ASB classic.

Does anyone else cringe watching that hospitality area around the court with people eating and drinking and taking no notice of the tennis?

Sometimes I wish a tennis ball would land in their food and drink for a laugh.
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January 8, 2023 10:11am
- Mike
  
  Many sports events are more about the ‘event’ and being seen at it than they are about the sport.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:33am
- virtualmark
  
  We’re regular attendees of the ASB Classic, and I have to say I wish the NZRFU bigwigs would get along and check out that hospitality area. It puts every other NZ sporting venue to shame.
  
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  January 8, 2023 10:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s NZR now, virtualmark. The ‘football’ and the ‘union’ are obsolete concepts.
    
    7 5
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    January 8, 2023 12:34pm
    - Rusty
      
      @miken… I’m not sure what you mean from your comments but it sounds sort of interesting – could you elaborate?
      
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      January 8, 2023 12:48pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Rugby turned ‘professional’ in the early 1990s, becoming owned by the primary sponsors – at that time Adidas and Sky TV. The recent formal sale of the game to venture capitalists has completed the process of becoming a branded commodity instead of a sport.
        
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        January 8, 2023 3:58pm
    - virtualmark
      
      And they’re about as efficient and effective as that previous NZR, New Zealand Railways.
      
      6 2
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      January 8, 2023 2:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/raising-25k-for-the-stop-co-governance-nz-road-tour-update-8th-january-2023/
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January 8, 2023 10:37am
ClanMcleod

In another attack on free speech, Jordan Peterson is being ordered to attend “re education camp” at his own cost, or lose his licence to practice.

Canadian psychologist and best-selling author Dr Jordan Peterson has been told by a government-regulated licensing body for practicing clinical psychologists in Canada that he must undergo “social media communications retraining” or face an in-person tribunal and potential suspension of his medical license (Epoch Times, New York Post, Reclaim the Net, Spectator Australia). Naturally, he’s refused.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/psychologist-dr-jordan-peterson-ordered-undergo-political-/?published=t

Canada is as big a basket case as NZ when it comes to the shutting down of free speech or anyone or anything that opposes the “single source of truth.”

However, the Leader of the Conservatives in Canada is providing a glimmer of hope.
This is a link to Pierre Poilievre very eloquently defending Jordan Peterson. He understands free speech and why it is so important. Very much worth watching. Just over 2 minutes long.

https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1611363161126633472
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January 8, 2023 10:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘Free Speech is a weapon of War.’ or something.
  JA
  
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  January 8, 2023 11:01am
- MCōs
  
  They got the wrong bloke.
  By all accounts it’s the ref from the Phoenix game yesterday who should be re-educated.
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:00pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I think that’s the 3rd time we concur. It was an astonishing game.
    
    3 0
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    January 8, 2023 7:55pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just shocking. Jordan Peterson is one of the few voices of reason.
  
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  January 8, 2023 12:16pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I particularly enjoyed his comic book – ’12 Rules for Life’.
    
    5 32
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    January 8, 2023 12:36pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      That fact that you see those 12 rules for life (from a psychologist no less) as a comic book would explain a lot about your behaviour. 😆
      
      18 4
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      January 8, 2023 1:21pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I haven’t read his 12 More Rules for Life, so perhaps I’ll improve after reading that.
        What self-help popular psychology books have improved your life the most?
        
        3 18
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        January 8, 2023 3:55pm
      - Deane Jessep
        
        Absolutely, your understanding of what others see in it might improve. I honestly don’t understand how people can argue against something they’ve never looked at.
        
        For example, I’ve read nearly everything by Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Engels, etc. Didn’t make me suddenly a communist though. Did significantly improve my understanding of what they stand for though.
        
        If you want a stunning “self improvement” book take a look at Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi.
        
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        January 8, 2023 5:17pm
    - Deane Jessep
      
      I’d be very interested in your review of it Mike. Knowing where you stand on JP your analysis would be very enlightening to my understanding of the other side of the debate.
      
      9 2
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      January 8, 2023 5:07pm
      - Mike
        
        I have read it and it is a very short and crappy read. I’d provide a fuller review if you care to suggest somethjng more interesting and less superficial.
        
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        January 8, 2023 8:58pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Milky: “I haven’t read his 12 More Rules for Life”
      
      Aaah! Got ya! Throwing feces at stuff without even understanding what you are knocking!
      
      Look up JP debating Cathy Newman. It’s a classic. My eyes tend to glaze over quite often with JP and I do find him a bit overly dramatic but he makes sense on the whole. He seems to be having a bet both ways on the Christianity front but hey nobody’s perfect (I’m not religious).
      
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      January 8, 2023 5:38pm
Yvette

“3 Waters” still – WHILE WE ARE SLEEPING beside the BBQ, as Jacinda and Nanaia think we are …

From Thomas Cranmer’s Substack –
We will never be denied, we will never go silently in the night, our voice must be heard at the table and we must take our place, end of story. – Waikato-Tainui chairperson Tukoroirangi Morgan, speaking at the National Iwi Leaders Chairs Forum in Taupo

■ Without explanation, Waikato-Tainui’s Tukoroirangi Morgan has been appointed to lead the northern Three Waters iwi body raising fresh concerns about governance and how conflicts are managed.
https://cranmer.substack.com/p/tuku-morgan-and-three-waters

_________

■ The unbridled power of Te Mana o te Wai
The sheer scale and magnitude of the mechanism that lies at the heart of the Three Waters reforms is mind-boggling and threatens to totally overwhelm the water services structure.

… The proposed Te Mana o te Wai statements could also be used by mana whenua to express their interest in participating within the broader water services delivery system. I see the statements as being holistic, enabling Māori to express a broad wellbeing approach, consistent with a Te Ao Māori approach to such matters, including economic, cultural, social and environmental expectations.

… This unbridled expression of kaitiakitanga given to every iwi and hapū in the country and funded by ratepayers threatens to totally overwhelm the water services entities. And of course this is all completely untested. No-one has any idea whether this is workable until the system is implemented – at which time it will affect New Zealand’s entire water infrastructure. Enough however is known now to suggest that this would be a monumental disaster for the country were this ever to be attempted.
https://cranmer.substack.com/p/the-unbridled-power-of-te-mana-o

■ National Govt to support UN rights declaration
… • reaffirms the legal and constitutional frameworks that underpin New Zealand’s legal system, noting that those existing frameworks define the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the declaration.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/national-govt-support-un-rights-declaration

_________

■ Possible questions –
• While Entities are based on regional iwi domains and Maori control of river catchments, why has Waikato-Tainui’s Tukoroirangi Morgan been appointed to lead the northern Three Waters iwi body?
• Therefore will not Waikato-Tainu surely control; Entity B, as well as Entity A?
• What do iwi of Entity A, Auckland and Northland iwi think of that?
Or the South Island’s Entity D, Ngai Tahu, its their top-up settlement clause?

• When John Key had Pita Sharples state to the UN in New York that the Treaty is the covenant constraint on New Zealand’s engagement with the Declaration (UNDRIP), why is “co-governance” just passed into law, and “total governance” existed for over a year in Taumata Arowai and its controlling Maori Advisory Council (chaired by Tipa Mahuta, Waikato-Tainu), and now unbridled Mana o te Wai statements available only to Maori use?
• And why did John Key fly Pita Sharples to the UN in New York secretly? (perhaps check that out too)
28 4
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January 8, 2023 10:48am
ClanMcleod

It’s good to see more and more doctors and other experts speaking up about the alarming real world data flooding in.

A top oncologist claiming there is a link between boosters and increasing numbers of cancer cases.

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/01/06/top-cancer-expert-aggressive-cancers-appearing-after-vaccine-boosters-not-a-coincidence/
29 10
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January 8, 2023 11:19am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Who in NZ is totally responsible for forcing the Vaccine and Boosters?
  I know the answer, but who is going to confront those people? There will be many excuses, disclaimers, and diversions, right through to the point of lying and blaming someone else. The buck has to stop somewhere by calling them out.
  Or is this all like the Parole Boards where they can duck for cover when questioned?
  Discuss.
  
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  January 8, 2023 3:15pm
  - Andrew S
    
    @Steve……no, no, no. You’re not allowed to ask fundamental, pesky questions like that!!…..get with the programme before someone gets hurty feelzzz
    
    10 1
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    January 8, 2023 3:28pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    @Steve Otto
    
    The answer to that is the NZ Government Cabinet, lead by PM Jacinda Ardern. They did this against the official advice from the Ministry of Health and Director General of Health as reported in the New Zealand Herald in September of 2021.
    They alone are responsible although the opposition parties are tacitly responsible for their failure to acknowledge this, hold the government to account or to even acknowledge the plight of those impacted by the mandates and the vaccines.
    
    11 1
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    January 8, 2023 3:39pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I can only hope they are reading this.
      They may not even know that the busk stops with them – too ignorant.
      
      1 0
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      January 9, 2023 9:32am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is thuggery part of the waikato ethos?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/482075/police-investigate-hamilton-assault
19 2
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January 8, 2023 11:45am
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yes it is.
  
  14 2
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  January 8, 2023 11:55am
- kevn
  
  @Maggy… Just a ‘percentage’ of the local population.
  
  8 2
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  January 8, 2023 1:55pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Indeed. You are very unlikely to be affected, so please don’t worry. Ditto with white supremacists. Oh wait.
    
    7 4
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    January 8, 2023 2:05pm
MCōs

Sun belting down in Auckland today!
13 1
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January 8, 2023 12:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Partner is waterblasting the deck. Has an umbrella hat but still got burnt after +50 sunblock. Shower and then. the Aloe vera gel.
  I will finish the job when she is out. Bit like painting – ‘missed a bit a bit’
  
  9 2
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  January 8, 2023 4:25pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Sounds like shit sunblock!
    
    Try La Roche Posay Wet Skin.
    
    https://www.chemistwarehouse.co.nz/buy/93032/la-roche-posay-anthelios-xl-wet-skin-spf50-250ml
    
    Top shelf sunscreen. Affordable if you consider the tube volume.
    
    5 1
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    January 8, 2023 5:43pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Sunblock is one of the good ones. She burns very easy.
      Got burnt in Alaska no shit. I am different. Pale stale white male and been burnt less than 10 times in my life. Alaska, goldpanning. Put on sunblock Steve. I said this sun will not burn me, I come from a place with a hole in the ozone layer.
      Alaska summer is just like Auckland summer, just short. Say 7 to 9 weeks, but can be as short as 4 weeks.
      
      1 0
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      January 9, 2023 9:39am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Some fun. Trump Cameos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yosAVMB47-Y
8 5
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January 8, 2023 12:09pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

welcome to adern & mahoota’s Aotearoa https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/01/investigation-underway-after-unprovoked-attack-of-foreigner-in-hamilton.html
17 4
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January 8, 2023 12:40pm
- Swifty
  
  Of course my observations are anecdotal, but small, slim and often female Asians seem to be particular targets of a small slice of our population – the attacks of which are often accompanied by ‘this is our land’ and ‘go back to where you come from…’
  
  (I note it mirrors the US situation where Asians are disproportionate victims of assault, robbery, home invasions by a certain slice of the US population. I’ve heard this is because the Asians are seen as wealthy, often carry cash or jewellery, and are seen as easier targets because of their size.)
  
  Haven’t seen any articles in the Herald or Stuff investigating this social phenomenon as yet though.
  
  16 3
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  January 8, 2023 1:23pm
  - MCōs
    
    My wife is Asian, no longer as slim as she once was, mind.
    Nevertheless
    All the time she’s been here she’s been fortunate not to have been racially abused. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen to other Asians, but that hasn’t been her experience.
    
    10 0
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    January 8, 2023 7:39pm
    - Swifty
      
      That can’t be right MCos, NZ is a seething morass of racism we are told daily.
      
      Even Taika Waititi says “NZ is as racist af.” And as we are told, he is right about everything.
      
      4 0
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      January 8, 2023 9:55pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Gosh. Won’t the misappropriated taxpayer’s media bribe money have to be paid back with interest here?
  
  9 3
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  January 8, 2023 2:37pm
Rusty

Not trying to sound unkind to Hamilton but is it the worst crime ridden city in NZ?

I don’t think I would like to stop off in Hamilton even to buy an ice cream from a dairy.
16 0
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January 8, 2023 12:51pm
- tavita
  
  Having just visited Hamilton with my Asian partner, I didn’t see anything untoward. However the old parts of town – Victoria st in particular – look very tired. The malls are great, but are just like malls everywhere. We also visited rotorua and auckland. Queues for everything. We are not ready for the doors to open for Chinese. The tourist spots are full already. Mostly aussies. We saw my daughter off at auckland international. Over 60 minutes to get through immigration and security.
  
  11 0
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  January 8, 2023 3:50pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hamilton – gateway to Huntly.
  
  15 2
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  January 8, 2023 3:51pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And Cambridge, where our hydro electricks come from.
    Don’t build hydro dams. Hello, why is the hot water cylinder cold?
    
    9 2
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    January 8, 2023 4:31pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  I wonder what makes Hamilton different to Queenstown when it comes to crime?
  I’m guessing maybe the topography….
  
  6 2
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  January 8, 2023 4:47pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Is Rotovegas still a city?
  
  6 1
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  January 8, 2023 4:53pm
  - graham
    
    I was surprised, a few weeks ago, to stumble upon a suburb called Rototuna.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rototuna
    
    1 1
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    January 8, 2023 6:50pm
  - MCōs
    
    Yes
    
    4 0
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    January 8, 2023 7:27pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    No, it is a shite hole filled up with Cindy’s “homeless” friends. These people aren’t homeless, they and their dealers just want a free pad in the city.
    
    1 0
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    January 8, 2023 10:50pm
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  I spent a week there three weeks ago. No problems at all. Everything operating normally.
  
  0 0
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  January 9, 2023 12:55am
  - tavita
    
    Yep. We spent two days in rotorua and the place was humming. No sign of the homeless. All motels in Fenton st full of new cars.
    
    0 0
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    January 9, 2023 8:15am
Nickc2

Can we afford our PM in these times of financial crisis? Let’s compare seven of the top salaries of PMs/Presidents/Chancellors in the Western World:

Singapore PM NZ$2,612,192 with a population of 5.6m
Honk Kong PM NZ$1,105,376 with a population of 7.5m
Switzerland PM NZ$783,428 with a population of 8.7m
USA President NZ$636,676 with a population of 333.2m
Australia PM NZ$611,651 with a population of 25.9
Germany Chancellor NZ$612,161 with a population of 84+m
New Zealand PM NZ$471,049 with a population of 5.1m

May I suggest our Cindy’s vastly overpaid for an out-of-work Fish-n-Chip Wrapper with no Prime Ministerial experience whatsoever?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/paid-too-much-how-salaries-of-nz-politicians-compare-to-their-overseas-counterparts/ar-AA165fkU?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=282b374cf5384aa6be8edffba6b6466c
18 6
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January 8, 2023 1:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Other Leaders work, and don’t disappear.
  Oh, Jaspinda is not included. It is tough to face media.
  Ever heard of that Biden guy???
  
  11 2
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  January 8, 2023 4:37pm
- Taieri
  
  May I suggest our Cindy’s vastly overpaid for an out-of-work Fish-n-Chip Wrapper with no Prime Ministerial experience whatsoever?
  ———–
  
  Depends on what you compare her salary to. Take for example the salary of the CEO (formerly known as a town clerk) of one of the larger NZ cities – Christchurch with the population of about 390,000. That person is paid $548,548 per annum, which is quite a bit more that our Prime Sinister gets. Admittedly, the former is not an elective position, but the range and scale of its responsibilities is incomparably smaller that that of the PM. Similarly, the Vice Chancellors of NZ universities are being paid far more that the PM and while they manage fairly big entities this is nowhere near the responsibilities of the PM. I could go on on…
  
  Finally, while Dr Ardern’s experience before 2017 does not indeed sweep one of their feet, she’s now been in charge of this country for a little over 5 years and any alleged “lack of experience” is no longer applicable as there’s been a number of NZ PMs with much shorter tenure.
  
  5 1
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  January 8, 2023 5:14pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    All of those jumped up Town Clerks and Vice Chancellors are also grossly overpaid.
    
    The justification for those salaries is that public institutions need to compete with corporates for executive talent. I call horseshit on that. When was the last time a corporate poached a TC or VC as their new CEO?
    
    Take $200k pa off the lot of them. I bet my left testicle that none of them flounce off to an equivalent private sector role.
    
    5 1
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    January 8, 2023 8:09pm
    - marcw
      
      The Auckland TC was “poached” to head the new Polytech entity. How did that work out? /s
      
      2 1
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      January 8, 2023 8:26pm
- MCōs
  
  The only NZ PM who has come to the job with previous experience, that I can think of, may have been Holyoake.
  
  5 1
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  January 8, 2023 5:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Electioneering. War on the drug cartels. He means business.
If you don’t like Trump, don’t bother to view. (Video 2.36)
https://finishtherace.com/eric/president-donald-j-trump-declares-war-on-cartels-video/
11 6
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January 8, 2023 1:55pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, Biden wanted a flood of illegals in the hope they would vote for Dems. Other than piss off legal immigrants Biden ‘s minders forget most of the illegals are family oriented and less likely to be gender bent.
  
  10 5
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  January 8, 2023 2:35pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Of course they would vote Democrat once they got the USA resident paper
    Just like all the dead people!
    Family orientated is a small number (don’t ask me how small)
    The American FREEDOM is being destroyed
    
    8 2
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    January 8, 2023 4:42pm
Swifty

Fascist Islamic thugs once again show their true colours:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/300779912/iran-hangs-two-more-people-in-brutal-campaign-against-protesters

“Speak or demonstrate against us and we will kill you.”
9 1
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January 8, 2023 2:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Only a few backward outlier countries continue with capital punishment.
  
  4 16
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  January 8, 2023 3:50pm
  - Inandout
    
    More than a few still have CP on their books.
    https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-capital-punishment.html
    
    7 0
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    January 8, 2023 4:19pm
  - Andrew S
    
    ‘Only a few backward outlier countries continue with capital punishment’
    
    Good onya mickey….slowly the worm turns.
    
    It’s great to see you slowly coming to terms with your hypocrisy.
    
    BTW mickey. What are your thoughts regarding ‘capital punishment’ in the Middle East/Asia, Africa etc etc? I’d love to hear your analogy, especially since you’re standing on the ‘moral’ high ground.
    
    Speak your truth Micky Rat or forever hold your peace.
    
    8 3
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    January 8, 2023 4:43pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Uptick again sonny. Isn’t a good thing that NZ is led by Jaspinda, the Socialist Tyrant?
    
    9 1
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    January 8, 2023 4:45pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    53 Countries have active capital punishment.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment#/media/File:Capital_punishment_in_the_world.svg
    
    4.8 Billion people live in those countries.
    
    12 2
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    January 8, 2023 4:47pm
    - Mike
      
      So sorry that I didn’t make clear the obvious qualification of among countries that are committed to upholding human rights.
      
      2 0
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      January 8, 2023 8:51pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    The sadistic lunatic that killed the four college students in Idaho lives in one of them. That might be a good thing.
    
    7 1
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    January 8, 2023 4:53pm
  - Taieri
    
    Only a few backward outlier countries
    ———–
    
    Such as Singapore…
    
    7 1
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    January 8, 2023 6:04pm
  - rouppe
    
    Only is not capital punishment.
    
    It’s an authoritarian government isolating and targeting its opponents, and when they still refuse to comply, publicly eliminate them.
    
    Jacinda and her enablers do the first half…
    
    5 1
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    January 8, 2023 8:23pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Our dear leader Right Honourable Jacinda Ardern, saviour of 80,000 lives is the seventh highest paid leader in the world. My question is why is she not paid the highest salary in the world?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/01/how-jacinda-ardern-s-and-new-zealand-mps-salaries-compare-to-overseas-politicians.html
10 1
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January 8, 2023 4:36pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  How come we didn’t pay.peanuts but still got monkeys?
  
  10 2
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  January 8, 2023 7:19pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But let’s compare her to the well-paid Singaporean PM (ex Brigadier-General, Maths genius)..
  
  Singapore has a slightly greater population than NZ
  5.65Million…. but an incredibly higher density of folk… 8358/km2……..whereas NZ has a population density of 18/km2.
  
  So if Our Dear PM is such a saviour, why are the covid death stats of Singapore much better than ours?
  
  Singapore covid deaths – 1712
  NZ covid deaths – 2331
  
  11 1
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  January 8, 2023 7:38pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Our made-up Covid death number is higher than Singapore’s made-up Covid death number.
    
    So what?
    
    3 3
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    January 8, 2023 8:12pm
  - Taieri
    
    Singapore covid deaths – 1712
    NZ covid deaths – 2331
    ———–
    
    According to worldometers.info the NZ tally is 3568
    
    7 0
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    January 8, 2023 8:38pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Oh Grief…
      we’ve Not been saved…
      
      No wonder Our Dear PM has vanished from our TV screens preaching to us about how she’s kept us safe.
      
      10 2
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      January 8, 2023 8:59pm
  - Mike
    
    Dear old Redbaiter used to highlight Singapore as the place we should be like. Although in his new appearance he was complaining about urban intensification hete.
    I’d encourage any admirers of Singapore to move there. They have a genuis orime minister and the death penalty.
    
    6 0
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    January 8, 2023 8:49pm

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