General Debate 22 February 2023

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NeverMindTheBollocks

The list of missing people remains stubbornly high. Presumably someone is analysing this for “where last seen/ expected to be”.

My concern is for those who live in the valleys. If you think about it, there are those who woke up & got out; those who got up on the roof; and then there are the others who didn’t.

I note a post or two here about many bodies send from helicopters, but I discount those because there’s nothing stopping those pilots landing nearby. No, I suspect that a dozen or two are either under the silt or out at sea.
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February 22, 2023 8:01am
- Frank the tank
  
  With the topography of Napier bodies would be swept out to sea and then sink then float to the surface once they fill with air/gases.
  
  Surprised more bodies haven’t been found on beaches.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:14am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    They have, there is far more dead than they are saying
    
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    February 22, 2023 12:23pm
    - Keith White
      
      All the best people (TM) are telling us they are not hiding anything about the death toll. So, that’s pretty much proof that they are.
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:54pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Someone analysing” ?
  That someone (if there is) will be sitting in an office in Wellington waiting for the phone to ring. These idiots will have no forward thinking (typical Labour) of how extensive the damage is.
  ‘People missing?’ ‘Oh, nobody told us’ Fucking useless.
  $25 million in grants to farmers and growers? See? No eye deer. $25 million is not enough to help 10 farms. Some are Primary Industries right? They export NZ product. Govt help? Oh that is not my job, it is someone elses.
  Stop here or I will blow a fucking gasket.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:44am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I agree that noone has a clue about how much money will eventually need to be thrown at this problem and how it will be distributed.
    
    Anyway, negativity is always easy. Tell us how Steve Otto would be handling all this. Take as much space as you want ….
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:53am
    - Random T Person
      
      Not Steve Otto’s job. Government’s job.
      Amazed this needs explanation.
      
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      February 22, 2023 8:56am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Not Steve Otto’s job.
        
        Of course. I just thought that if he has such strong views on what is being done wrong, he might have a few ideas about how things should be done better.
        
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        February 22, 2023 9:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Boag is just trolling.
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:13pm
    - Stellaboxer
      
      I didn’t realise Steve Otto was the prime minister. So why does he have to have the answers. Surely that’s the job of the person that puts their hand up and claims to be the leader. If a plumber came to your house and did a terrible job would you not be able to complain unless you could point out a better technical solution to the one they had employed?
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:11am
      - Ghost
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Strange, people here usually have no problem coming up with polices and ideas for the government, except when Ian asks then there are excuses for miles
        
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        February 22, 2023 9:19am
      - Taieri
        
        Strange, people here usually have no problem coming up with polices and ideas for the government
        ——————-
        
        Here is the first one…
        
        Forestry plantations – no more clear felling, without suitable provisions for erosion protection.
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:37pm
      - Ghost
        
        Long term solution but doesn’t really help with the clean up and getting people back on their feet now.
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:42pm
      - Local Miller
        
        @Ghost: “Strange, people here usually have no problem coming up with polices and ideas for the government, except when Ian asks then there are excuses for miles”
        This is a strawman argument. It’s not the publics job to provide solutions to the government, sometimes people have ideas the want to put forward, and other times they either don’t have specific ideas or don’t want to spend time putting them down, particularly since this government doesn’t listen any way, and certainly doesn’t seem to care about what we say here.
        The public like the opposition are not there to feed the government ideas, but to hold them to account It’s enough that we do that, the government are paid for and stood up to take on this responsibility, they should be doing the hard work.
        
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        February 22, 2023 2:08pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @ Taieri,
        “Forestry plantations – no more clear felling, without suitable provisions for erosion protection. “Is this sarc? I am not sure, and I pick up the // pretty well.
        The Forestry owners, own the slash?
        How dare you?//
        
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        February 22, 2023 3:18pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Ian – why not do what they did during covid? Bring the army in, lock up or punish anyone not playing the game, then throw copious amounts of money everywhere and hope some of it sticks where it’s needed? It worked so well during the “pandemic”.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:25am
      - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
        
        they only had a week to plan for the cyclone, but muich longer for the plandemic
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:23pm
      - Ghost
        
        A week, that is a lot of time. Look how quickly the military were helping out in Christchurch and they didn’t have a week to prepare.
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:27pm
      - Local Miller
        
        @OMBE: “they only had a week to plan for the cyclone”
        A week is forever in military planning terms and emergencies. The Army, Navy & Air Force (should) have emergency plans in place already. As part of my volunteer work several years ago I was part of several emergency preparedness exercises with the Navy up on Whangaparaoa Peninsula, at least one of these was what to do in the event of a severe storm. We were part of the casualty/affected citizen group.
        In my personal military days back in SA there was a severe storm that wiped out a country town (Laingsburg – 1981). Within 24 hours all local army units were on standby and could have been flown or trucked to the area. There would have been a substantial military presence within 36 hours. All we were waiting for was an order from the Ministry of Defense. My unit didn’t need to go in, but if you look at some of the photo’s you’ll see guys in brown army uniforms with floppy brown sun hats, often digging in the mud. You’ll also see army water tankers providing potable water. They set up field kitchens, showers, toilets, etc. Google Laingsburg Flood 1981.
        This governments response has been pathetic. Speaking as someone who’s seen a good response to a disaster.
        
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        February 22, 2023 2:27pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Quite an introduction for incoming Tourists to NZ. Right down on Quay St, fenced off hotel fronts with Army Guards. Tourists will think “Fucking hell, is this NZ or some third World place?”
        Well 3rd Word is close!
        
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        February 22, 2023 3:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      @ Ian Boag at 8.53.
      Well the first thing is you have to send me to University to get a Degree on ‘How to be a Fuckwit’
      I don’t need any more space to explain that.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:50am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Now, to how I would handle it.
      First, get a few very good economists to sort out that $25 million and say how far the get before the money is gone. That is the very first thing. The economists write a report to the Govt and ask “Please explain your figures on how you came to this $25 million”
      Take it from there.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:56am
      - Paulus
        
        Christchurch is not the best example of Catasrophe cleanup – we have heard that $40 billion has been spent and no updates are or will be available.
        Like Pike River – heard that they are doing new drillings but appears hush hush as cannot find anywhere in the media.
        
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        February 22, 2023 1:20pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Tell us how you’ll be handling it Boag. A thousand word essay will suffice. Go to it.
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:56pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        It seems obvious that a heap of money – lots more than the initial $25m – will be handed out. Starting quite soon.
        
        The mechanics are a bit challenging – It will be a high trust model like the wage subsidy – “ask for $x and it shall be given” was how that operated. Time is of the essence. That’s how the wage subsidy worked.
        
        Who gets it – farmers only or anyone affected by the flood? What happens if people are insured and eventually get some level of payout from that? What about a farm service business whose cashflow has dried up? What about people with a flooded/slipped house where the section is now unusable? How do is the decision made about how much to hand out to whom?
        
        I think these are reasonable questions and there are a whole lot more. The answers are basically captain’s calls as the situation has to be dealt with right now, Some of the answers will turn out to not look that great down the line. Happens when decisions get made in a hurry.
        
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        December 22, 2022 3:03pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        How about assemble a team of NZ’s most experienced and qualified in these situations and take a look at world’s best practice (keeping in mind NZ’s relatively middling GDP per capita) and copy those practices?
        
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        February 22, 2023 8:52pm
  - Ghost
    
    This $25 million is to help them with costs right now to clean up. There will be more coming along with insurance
    
    https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/02/22/farmers-and-growers-to-get-25-million-to-kick-start-recovery/
    
    The Government also said they’d provide more support once further assessments are done.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:05am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      There are Insurance Policy terms and conditions to look at.
      May not be easy.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:58am
  - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
    
    breaking news, Sena hendy has done some modelling (only cost the taxpayer $1,5M), and he is absoutely certain that he is in teh ball park when his model states that the range for detahs will be between 5 and 755,000 deaths. Take that to the bank…..whoops he already has.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:55am
- lastmanstanding
  
  The Leader of the Opposition has issued a Member a list of approved publications on Climate Change. When she has read them, she will be summoned to the Leader for examination. If she fails the examination, she will be sent to the National Party Gulag. This is situated in a secret secure section of 41 Pipitea St Wellington.
  The Re-education Officer Ms. Gerda Hoffman will conduct the necessary instruction to ensure the Member is re-educated. Ms. Hoffman is described as mid-fifties, a spinster, height 1.90m. weight 105 kg. She has a moustache and a mole on her right cheek.
  She has 100% success rate in re-educating National Party Members.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:17am
  - Justitia
    
    There is nothing about the Cyclone or flooding that Natural Variability cannot account for, without resorting to the false dogma of climate catastrophism. As Aussie meteorologists explained months ago, we have an unholy combination of La Nina, a positive Southern Annular Mode and the disruptive effects of vast amounts of ash and water vapour circulating in the stratosphere including over Antarctica. This has made both Eastern Australia and northern New Zealand more vulnerable to moist, tropical airflows including cyclones which will likely continue to form in the South Pacific through April.
    
    I note that NIWA has now decided to study the Tongan eruption’s impact on weather which they say will take them two years, conveniently parking the matter out of view.
    
    I find Luxon and Willis’s re-education of the dissident Pugh appalling. Is National now a totalitarian party where members are forced to publicly recant if they fail to toe the line on controversial matters of science? They certainly won’t be getting our vote in the next election, they are unfit to lead.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:42am
  - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
    
    luxon losing national voters by the day, everytime he opens his mouth……..30+ years as a National supporter, but not this year.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:56am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yup. By arresting ‘Free Speech” he has lost support big time.
      Just remember Luxon, we are a Democracy (I think)
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:01am
      - Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
        
        When Patrick Gower calls out luxon for his treatment of Pugh, you know you are in trouble.
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:24pm
    - Paulus
      
      In principle I agree but No National, get Chippy and some Greens and Maori Leaders.
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:23pm
  - kowloon
    
    Mss Hoffman, couldbevery usefully employed just educating the government mps in the mbasics of economics.
    Would be for the long term benefit of the country
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:12am
  - leoj
    
    This climate change indoctrination attempt by Luxon and co needs to be a separate post for comments.
    
    DPF won’t want that though as it shows National to be no different from Labour/Greens.
    
    Luxon has swallowed the whole climate change nonsense, hook, line and sinker.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:31am
    - JJ56
      
      One can only suspect that Curia’s polling shows the swinging centre are heavily invested in the climate change crisis. Hence the desperate need to conform, and devil (aka ACT) take the hindmost.
      
      Only that can explain this behaviour.
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:17pm
  - Zack Brando
    
    See, I told you guys he was a climate cuck.
    
    I’m shocked to find myself in agreement with Patrick Gower!
    
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    February 22, 2023 12:34pm
  - RightFirstTime
    
    Just reinforces the view of the many who already believe Luxon is useless. The least he could have done was to send Maureen Pugh to a special re-education camp to study the settled science on Climate Change, relieve her of any of her own thoughts and ensure she toes the line of the new left National Party. I have some sympathy for those centre-right National Party supporters who still forlornly cling to the belief that the National Party represents them.
    
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    February 22, 2023 12:45pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    I might email Luxon and ask if I too can receive said “list” just to see what I’m missing out on. Ever an enquiring mind here!
    
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    February 22, 2023 12:54pm
  - Jack5
    
    Snipers in the thread taking pot shots at Luxon …
    
    Why divert from the huge economic issues facing NZ?
    
    With pressing practical problems, who gives a rat’s arse what individual MPs think about the climate issue? Or whether a party leader demands side-step the issue when they’re talking to hostile news media.
    
    Luxon can tip out Chipkins.
    
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    February 22, 2023 1:19pm
    - kowtow
      
      Luxon’s the one doing not pot shots but taking out the big guns against one of his own MP’s .
      
      Showing he’s also fallen for the trap te media pardy pulled Pugh into .
      
      In so doing he’s shown his true colours , and it ain’t Blue.
      
      And yes he could equally have said , in his chummy style to the media and public ;
      
      Guys this isn’t the time to be playing ambush politics , people are hurting , business is hurting , we’ve got a job to do , focus on the real issues .
      
      But oh no ; I’m sending one of mine orf to re education camp , to read approved party tracts . No denying , no minimising .
      
      Plenty of science out there to show he and te media pardy are wrong .
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:15pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The “climate emergency” belief system is a path to economic suicide. That’s why it matters.
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:27pm
Tomtoddy

A guy whacks a woman so hard she dies. It used to be called murder. People got jailed for a very long time for hitting and killing people.

But this guy gets 5 months home detention. He wasn’t going anywhere, anyway so effectively no punishment. How come? The judge decided there were “extenuating” circumstances. The guy was drunk. Saved by being boozed up. (Note to self – if you are going to knock someone off get pissed first. It gets you a couple of months at home watching Netflix).

Second “extenuating” circumstance. It was a single hit only. (Note to self – if you are going to hit, hit hard).

Another “extenuating” circumstance. He didn’t mean it. Not sure how the judge worked that out because he had already threatened her. Maybe he is a mind reader.

More “extenuating” circumstances. He was “of good character”. Yep, that they always say that. Don’t check – just claim it. I have an old uncle who is “of good character” too.

Yet another “extenuating” circumstance. Claimed, “There is no suggestion in the summary of facts that Mr …….. delivered a king hit” Really?? You kill a person with one blow and it is not a “king hit”? Pull the other one.

Wait, there’s more. There were “cultural issues”. Now we are getting closer to the bone. There is a good part of the answer. (Last note to self – have the “cultural” issues ready to trot out). That is now our justice system. You get 5 months sitting around drinking, enjoying life at home for hitting and killing someone. All because of “extenuating” circumstances.
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February 22, 2023 8:03am
- Frank the tank
  
  Like the pissed office worker that drove home drunk and resisted arrest.
  
  We don’t have a justice system anymore
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:15am
  - Scooter
    
    It’s now about justice for the criminals, all about reducing times in jail due to time spent in jail prior to sentencing (7 months in custody in this case, hardly worth even considering), cultural factors, upbringing (The court heard Uhatafe began drinking kava when he was 13 and continued drinking daily, sometimes up to 20 buckets). WTF, is wrong with this country?
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:13am
- kowtow
  
  Where’s the outrage from the # mob .
  
  Same with the lack of outrage relating to the most appalling case of Juliana Herrera.
  
  Unbelievable.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:32am
  - RoboRob
    
    They are torn on one side this is terrible becuase its a woman (although it should also be terrible if it was a man killed). On the other hand ‘cultural issues’. Culture > woman > children > animals > men.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:51am
    - RoboRob
      
      Actually on second thought I think the heiracrchy is
      
      Culture > animals > woman > children > feelings > men
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:56am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah, but it was just a woman…
  
  Plenty more of them around.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300811795/tongan-visitor-given-home-detention-for-fatal-slap-to-partners-head
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:42am
  - RoboRob
    
    It would have been a warning if it had been a man. If it had been a dog he might have gotten two years. The who thing is screwed up.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:52am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  This is what I mean about State Sector Employees. Change the Parties in Government as much as you like, but the deadwood in the State Sector is still there – right up to Dudges. It needs to be ripped apart and positions rehired based on qualifications. The 4 decades of Govt created jobs has to go now! Including Gudges. NZ corrections is a shambles.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:52am
  - RoboRob
    
    The problem is you end up with something like the US, where each government appoints its own people. The problem is you end up with ‘Trump appointees’ or ‘Biden appointees’, where these people are selected becuase of their bias rather than quality.
    
    I dont know what the solution is.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:55am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The Government promised a “victim-led” approach to crime. The Government also believes that those who commit crimes are themselves “victims”. There’s your problem, right there.
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:03pm
- Jack5
  
  Is soft sentencing related to the surge of women into the law profession, and thus the increase in women judges?
  
  Unfortunately, few seem to be fire eaters like lawyer-blogger Cactus Kate.
  
  In university law courses, women students predominate, and there is publicity about “old white men” still dominating senior positions in big law firms.
  
  You can be there won’t be gender-equality complains on behalf of men when, inevitably, women fill most senior roles in big law practices.
  
  But is law-system feminisation related to lighter sentencing?
  
  An interesting light on this is the Australian TV show screen in NZ, “Border Security”.
  
  It not infrequently shows New Zealanders rejected entry to Australia because of crimes committed before they “straightened themselves out”.
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:51pm
igm

And this piece of lowlife Labour-loved and supported filth gets name suppression . . .
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300812279/kidnapping-victim-left-traumatised-and-a-shadow-of-former-self
Words bloody fail me!
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February 22, 2023 8:05am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well, at least the article states:
  
  Winter said the man was capable of change and being in prison had given him a chance to look at himself.
  
  Sounds like prison is providing more “structure” to his life than his gang did.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:14am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Look at himself? You mean, Corrections provides a mirror?
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:23am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Only polished stainless steel ones as it happens otherwise the reforming poor things smash them and use the shards to stab each other and the odd guard. True story.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:16am
    - Jack5
      
      Have you seen the advertisements for prison warders?
      
      The Salvation Army could easily adapt the video adverts and use them for recruiting staff.
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:23pm
      - Ghost
        
        Most stupid ad on TV with the kid saying he might become a corrections officer
        
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        February 22, 2023 1:40pm
- Clyde
  
  The Liemore policy is “don’t see the crime then you don’t have to do anything about it”, “if someone else sees the crime make sure the defendent’s lawyer gets the standard Liemore procedure hand-out including complex cultural issues”, if convicted “refer to Kelvin who will make sure the defendent can go home away from nasty prison”. Works every time.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:19am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The Woman died after the trial. Completely overcome by fear?
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:56am
- zulumonster
  
  I think the key is he apologised … that counts for a lot with the judge obviously, shows some depth of character or something …. “Eventually he stopped and shoved her out of the car and apologised for what he had done.”
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:44am
NK

What do Harete Hipango and Maureen Pugh have in common?

They both proffered a personal opinion contrary to what the National Party wanted, and both were then hit with a stick by the leader until their opinion changed to what Dear Leader wanted.

Undeniable. Even for diehard Nats. Absolutely pathetic and THE reason I have no confidence in Luxon to turn this country around.

Downtick away, party loyalists who don’t have an independent brain either.
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February 22, 2023 8:12am
- Frank the tank
  
  And this is different from any political party in New Zealand and most of the western world? There is much to criticise Luxon over but this isn’t the case here
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:17am
- Colville
  
  I disagree.
  I believe its simple…there is the party line and only the party line.
  Team Unity. End of story.
  That is what you are paid to promote and if there is anything else you believe contrary to that that you want to talk about then sure fill your boots but after your resignation is on the bosses desk.
  
  and no I dont vote for the commie Labour Lite boys in blue ties. 🙂
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:19am
  - RoboRob
    
    While it should be about personal ideas and arguing your perspectives and solutions. However you are right, to actually win elections your party needs to have a consistent policy view so that voters know where they stand.
    
    People here attack Luxon for being wishy washy and not offering firm policy. Yet the same people push for public disagreement between MPs.
    
    The best way to win over voters is to be clear, concise and consistent. People aren’t going to agree with all a parties policies but they wont vote for parties where they don’t know what they stand for. This seems the current general problem with National.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:01am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Sadly, I agree. At this point in the election cycle, expedience is the way.
      
      Never forget, great is the enemy of good.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:24am
- ClanMcleod
  
  No downtick from me. You’d think Luxon and co might have worked out that “the science is settled” mantra was a total pile of steaming manure during the covid circus. Trotting it out again so soon isn’t going to do him and the party any favours.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:20am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Good on Maureen for daring to speak the truth.
    But, rightly or wrongly, the majority of people believe it. (why is another story)
    National needs their Votes…
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:27am
    - Tomtoddy
      
      The problem with that A o R is you are capable of selling your soul just to gain power. I, too, want a change of Govt and I want National to do well because that is how it has to be but this obeisance at all costs is deeply disturbing.
      
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      February 22, 2023 8:34am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Very true Tom, but there are many in National who believe we are changing the weather.
        I think the best we can hope for is Act to bring facts, which the public dont tend to see, to the publics attention.
        But that won’t happen unless they win.
        
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        February 22, 2023 8:47am
    - NK
      
      I have made this comment here a couple of times, that is I don’t care what Luxon says, I just care what he does.
      
      And what he has just done to stifle public debate is atrocious.
      
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      February 22, 2023 8:35am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I understand the politics, but I really despair when we are all apparently forced to play a game. We all know it’s a sham but we have to dutifully pretend it isn’t one.
      We really need another “enlightenment” period, it’s a dark world that claims “science is settled” and nothing can be questioned.
      
      I get “Party unity” – but it sounds very 1984.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:31am
  - Random T Person
    
    ClanM, Luxon has form in climate change bullshit. He led the greenwashing of Air NZ, remember. And it is greenwashing, you don’t send 777s and 787s all over the world while encouraging every man and his dog to take an international vacay without burning a bit of kerosene.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:59am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      RTP – it’s concerning. It certainly appears that genuine and justifiable debate is being stifled. Again. The covid shit was almost a test run. Many people said the next pivot would be to “climate change” and it’s looking like they were correct.
      
      Who is actually pulling these strings? As with covid, there is copious data available that at the very least shows there is plenty to discuss. The “science” is never settled. But yet again, we are told by media megaphones to shut up and believe.
      
      It’s a cult. As was covid.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:35am
      - mawm
        
        I find it disturbing that someone can lead a political party and dictate what his members are allowed to think when he himself has obviously not looked at the evidence presented by “dissenting” scientists. There is enough science to question the UN approved global warming charade and enough evidence that the IPCC has manipulated data to suit their cause.
        
        Next up WHO pandemic treaty, CBDC and universal digital ID – which if this perfidious Labour Party doesn’t sign up to I foretell Luxon completing the job. ACT unfortunately have not boosted their Libertarian credentials either.
        
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        February 22, 2023 10:06am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Clan I believe people in general need something to believe in. It’s far more comfortable to believe the science is settled and that the ruling class ( for want of a better terminology) and “experts” are on to it than it is to have to engage in assessments of endless discussion and uncertainty. People want leaders to tell them what is what and tell them what they can and cannot do. From the Lord is my Shepard to Hitlers Volksgemeinschaft the people love authoritarianism and settled science.
        
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        February 22, 2023 10:32am
- Lipo
  
  The disturbing thing about this event is that what Maureen said is in fact true
  I can’t find the exact quote but it was along the lines of there is no scientific proof that Humans are causing climate change.
  In this she is right
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:20am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Human-induced climate change.
    Yes, I can go along with that when we’re talking about destruction of the rainforests in Brazil and Indonesia.
    Driving an ICE car, not so much.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:58am
    - Ruawai
      
      There have been cyclones causing widespread damage forever in NZ, the only difference this time is man made slash from forestry damming up the rivers and when they let go turning rivers into tidal waves. So it is man made change.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:46am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Man made change to the outcome of a cyclone, not man made climate change.
        Fixed it for you.
        
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        February 22, 2023 11:05am
- kowtow
  
  The Maureen Pugh thing is a classic media beat up.
  
  They targetted her and pack ambushed her , no doubt believing they could /would get something “controversial” out of her.
  
  The media pack has literally created this and are now running it for all it’s worth .
  
  ps Luxon also smacked was it Simon O’Connor and Simeon Brown for a tweet.
  
  The new orthodoxy must not be challenged and freedom of speech , conscience and opinion are now very much inconsequential .
  
  Democarcy in danger.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:25am
  - Random T Person
    
    Demofarcy, I think you meant. In any event, democracy is just the argumentum ad populum fallacy, amazing that this is the best form of government we have.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:00am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum… Noam Chomsky
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:36am
  - RoboRob
    
    I dont think this is a democracy issue. This is a stance a party takes, parties need to be consistent with their policies and views. If the leader says ‘no new taxes’ but an MP pontificates about taxing kiwisaver, you end up with people not trusting the leader and unsure of where the party stands.
    
    You see this in the US now where a small group of republicans talked about cutting Medicare, now the party is labelled as secretly planning to do it.
    
    Pugh can think whatever she wants about climate change, she can argue her point within the party, but once the party decides on a stance she should not undermine it.
    
    People here are criticising Luxon because they agree with Pugh. Think about the effect of the party of her actions. Sure labour might not agree with you on climate change but there other policies might be a hell of a lot better then the Greens, Maori and Labour party.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:08am
    - nathie
      
      Agree. The Govt of the day (which happens to be Labour at the moment) sets the CC agenda, what I mean is they have the authority/funding to have expert reports produced and of course they will ensure the “right outcome” by their choice of who are on the report panels etc.
      
      Therefore it shouldn’t be surprising to see National MP’s say they “support the evidence”, because all political parties receive these same reports.
      
      Now, National (and ACT), not in Govt, don’t have the funding to produce alternative reports. Although that could all change if Nat/ACT win the election and then have the authority/funding to do so (and can alter the narrative eg adaption, or reinforce the importance of natural gas etc).
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:29am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      If Party Members are denied their right to freedom of speech then this is not a democracy. It is a dictatorship a Stalinist State. You cant have it both ways. Like pregnancy you cant be a little pregnant just like you cant have a little bit of democracy. On in Labour case a more sophisicated democracy.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:09am
      - Skippytony
        
        Name me one political party in the world that tolerates elected members arguing against party policy. You sign a form when you stand as a party member. If you want to change the policy there are ways and processes. You dont just stand up and contradict the boss in public. No party tolerates that.
        
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        February 22, 2023 10:48am
      - RoboRob
        
        The members have the right to argue within the party. They choose to give up the right to argue publicly with party policy. That’s just standard politics / life. If they choose to use their right to free speech they choose the repercussion, i.e. expulsion from the party.
        
        I might disagree with my companies choice with regards to a product but I would never publicly do so, I might get fired. I still retain my right to free speech.
        
        btw Not so sure we legally have such a right in NZ but that’s another question 🙂
        
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        February 22, 2023 11:04am
    - Taieri
      
      Pugh can think whatever she wants about climate change, she can argue her point within the party, but once the party decides on a stance she should not undermine it.
      ——————–
      
      This used to be called Democratic Centralism and was one of the founding principles of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
      
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      February 22, 2023 12:43pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    kowtow – this article in the BFD nails it.
    
    ‘Parties’ are now in effect a package deal for the population, individualism is out; the Party choose who they’re going to put out as candidates with the Party’s favourites – based not on merit but on who they know – being given ‘safe seats’.
    
    Party ‘whips’ keep tight control by using threats to remove privileges or by awarding inducements – chucking the once revered knighthoods and damehoods around like sweeties – to ensure parliamentarians vote in accordance with the Party’s wishes which in turn are dictated by corporate lobbyists – not to mention the greenies, climate nuts, Bill Gates and the WEF etc.
    
    https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/02/22/were-not-in-kansas-any-more/
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:42am
  - Jethrod
    
    Newshub got well paid last night for leading the news about a no account MP speaking out. Only then Newshub went on to the 2nd most important news item…..the after-effects of a CYCLONE
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:00am
- Tomtoddy
  
  https://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.com/2023/02/barry-brill-great-flood-religion-vs.html
  
  Essential reading on Luxon v Pugh. Very well debated.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:40am
  - Cassandra
    
    But Brill is no longer in Parliament. Don’t start an argument you can’t win. This Pugh schemozzle is a distraction. Forget Stalingrad, go for the oil. After the election select a whole bunch of lefties and send them off to re-education at the Centre of Truth in Waiouru. But first win the election.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:51am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Barry Brill should be leader of the National Party. That is rational discussion, not cultish “belief” which is what the “climate change” loons have.
    
    It is religous in it’s fervour and it is a concern.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:52am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      The problem with Barry’s article is that he’s littered it with facts and figures. Nonsense like that is simply evidence that he’s a climate denier.
      Facts and figures, especially those that show there IS NO CLIMATE CRISIS are just getting in the way of wrecking the place in an effort to save us from the climate crisis.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:26am
  - Matt Long
    
    Most organisations have rules around a united public front.
    Given that Luxon chose to make his main focus with regard to the National Disaster erroneous statements about climate change, party discipline should exclude comments that contradict him.
    Unfortunately Luxon’s comments on climate change are in fact a National disaster.
    Look everyone, if we don’t vote for the Trojan horse we’ll get something even worse.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:56am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Yes very good. Just be aware that chatGPK has been loaded with woke ideology. Should be fun trying to make it have a meltdown with the contradictions therein though.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:59pm
- Random T Person
  
  [Mod – no need for comments like that]
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:43am
- Yvette
  
  NK, I believe you have been taken in partly by the
  Media Assassination of Maureen Pugh
  She unfortunately tried to land a remark on James Shaw.
  “One of our local councils wrote to him and asked him for the evidence before they impacted their ratepayers”
  So was”was waiting for Climate Change Minister James Shaw to provide her with the evidence” –
  That is the original actual context –
  
  Stage 1
  ■ MPs this morning were being asked about the cyclone and the impact of climate change. Pugh was asked whether she thought climate change had made the recent cyclones and flooding more extreme.
  …
  Pugh said she was waiting for a response from Climate Change Minister James Shaw, after “one of our local councils wrote to him and asked him for the evidence before they impacted their ratepayers“.
  “I’m not denying climate change, I’ve seen the evidence of it, we have cooled and warmed, cooled and warmed over millions of years.”
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/484589/national-s-maureen-pugh-chastised-over-climate-comments-she-s-gonna-be-doing-a-lot-of-reading
  
  Then that context was dropped, and the mis-information was spread –
  semi-editorial –
  
  Stage 2
  ■ Analysis: Pugh’s climate change denial is bad science and bad politics
  When Christopher Luxon arose from his bed this morning he would not have dreamed Maureen Pugh would overshadow his first big day back at Parliament for the year.
  Likely Pugh didn’t either, but things can turn on a dime — or a sentence — in politics.
  …
  Did she believe in man-made climate change?
  Pugh never outright said no, but she perpetuated the lines trotted out via pseudo-science, proliferated through social media – climate change has been going on for millions of years. And she hadn’t seen evidence of man-made climate change, but was waiting for — quite specifically — Climate Change Minister James Shaw to provide her with the evidence.
  ….
  But the damage was done, and instead of Luxon’s first major chance of the year to look like a prime minister in waiting, the country was discussing the anti-science views of a list MP.
  If you were Luxon, it’s about enough to make you want to go back to bed.
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/02/21/analysis-pughs-climate-change-denial-is-bad-science-and-bad-politics/
  
  • Watch: National MP refuses to say she believes in man-made climate change, apparently hasn’t seen evidence
  • National MP Maureen Pugh repeatedly refuses to say she believes in man-made climate change
  
  Stage 3
  ■ Greens co-leader Marama Davidson slams National MP Maureen Pugh for ‘unbelievable’ comments on man-made climate change
  Davidson told AM Early on Wednesday Pugh’s comments were a slap in the face to everyone battling the devastation caused by Cyclone Gabrielle.
  “Unbelievable actually and an insult to the people who are right now suffering and facing the head-on consequences of climate change, making weather events worse, more severe and more regular,” Davidson told AM Early host Nicky Styris.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/greens-co-leader-marama-davidson-slams-national-mp-maureen-pugh-for-unbelievable-comments-on-man-made-climate-change.html
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:45am
  - NK
    
    If it’s all good as you imp0ly, and Pugh did nothing wrong (i.e. it’s all a media beat-up), why did Luxon react like he did?
    
    The response was within Luxon’s control. I saw his response. It angers and disgusts me.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:51am
    - nathie
      
      Seriously? Pugh’s comments are a distraction. That’s politics 101 and every party including ACT and David Seymour would recognise that.
      
      And Pugh did do something wrong, she could not back up her claims …. which I agree with by the way but that’s not the point – I’m not paid >$100k to read Govt produced reports on CC and either side with them or challenge their evidence. Looks like she didn’t do either and couldn’t articulate a coherent reason against climate change and came across as uninformed.
      
      Which is the distraction … for Labour/Greens/Media Party to bash National and take attention away from Labour Govt’s shortcomings.
      
      See it for what it is and hope ACT’s MP’s don’t get caught in the same trap or at least get up to speed with the for and against evidence to argue their case!
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:13am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Seymour himself was left looking stupid winging during the cyclone
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:31pm
      - JJ56
        
        G, I assume you meant “whingeing”, if so go listen to his speech on the PM’s statement.
        
        As he says of the Greens not a scientist amongst them and Shaw can’t reliably report the rainfall.
        
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        February 22, 2023 2:30pm
    - Yvette
      
      NK – and Pugh did nothing wrong
      Maureen Pugh did in fact seem to do something wrong
      she tried to land one on James Shaw
      In reply to the loaded question she should have plainly answered with what she thinks
      not what a councillor wants to be able to justify higher rates to rate-payers
      and the fact Shaw had not yet replied – and now likely never will.
      
      Luxon also screwed up
      Instead of saying “My MP does believe the evidence – if you actually examine her answer she did not say what you are reporting her to have said.
      So your question to me in respect to what she believes is groundless.
      Do your homework”
      
      Didn’t happen – other shit did, and is still happening – some of it here: read all the comments
      QED
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:30am
      - coge
        
        Luxon showed greater loyalty to James Shaw, and none to his own MP.
        
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        February 22, 2023 11:51am
      - kowtow
        
        coge
        
        And in so doing showed his true colours.
        
        He’s certainly not True Blue and that’s the worry about the man and his “leadership team”
        
        Gone are the days of the “broad church” and an MP having an opinion , as mentioned above we now have a hive .
        
        This is very dangerous to freedom and democractic principles.
        
        They all bang on endlessly about honouring the ( undefined) principles of the treaty .
        
        Where now are our democratic principles.
        
        Others here are blaming Pugh for creating a distraction during election year , blaming her .
        
        No . The paid for , shit stirring , neo Marxist legacy media pardy have created this “controversy” , to besmirch the Opposition in election year .
        
        That’s the real issue .
        
        When te media pardy deliberately set out to create these kinds of controversies and doing it on the back of a tragedy , then they must be held up to scrutiny ,ridicule and rebuke .
        
        They are the danger to democracy , not Pugh .
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:44pm
  - Yvette
    
    The question here is _
    ■ Did the media carry out this assassination of Maureen Pugh by themselves or
    did they refer to the Prime Minister’s Office for advice?
    
    ■ And so was Willie Jackson right –
    
    “The reality is we want TVNZ to work in tandem with us – and they’re doing that – because New Zealand has changed. We have no longer a trust in national media – no longer is there a trust in what’s happening at a national media level,” he said.
    “We need a trusted public broadcaster because national identity is incredibly important and no longer do people trust New Zealand television or New Zealand radio.”
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/475707/broadcasting-minister-willie-jackson-cites-no-trust-in-defence-of-public-media-entity
    
    – if you can trust Willie Jackson
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:56am
    - Its only I
      
      National fell for a bait question. The Lux played up to what he believes the media wanted from him, look weak and doing so rattled the National supporter cage.
      
      Labour/MSN 4
      Opposition, a bunch of ZEROs
      
      National are so shyt at dealing with the media its embarrassing, the Mu ren zhuang (Wing-Chun dummy) of politics.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:30am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    It seems pretty clear that Shaw won’t be providing any evidence to the council. Also clear that Luxon won’t be asking for any evidence.
    I guess that means that pesky things like cost/benefit analyses aren’t necessary anymore, because they might require the production of evidence. Evidence not required anyway because we know that we’re facing an existential threat, meaning we need to spend whatever it takes to try and avoid our demise.
    Fricken idiocy.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:14am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Chris Nisbet – it’s covid 2.0. Same shit. Different shell game.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:56am
- pdm
  
  NK don’t forget Simon O’Connor.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:46am
  - kowtow
    
    And Simeon Brown.
    
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    February 22, 2023 12:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Luxon is drinking the cool aid. National leader Christopher Luxon says Pugh was not forced to make her new statement. Has he forced Maureen Pugh to change her statement on Climate Change? Looks like it to me.
  So National MPs now do what Luxon says? Fuck, I thought we lived in a Democracy. See what you have done now Comrade Japinda. Everyone tows the Party line, no thinking for yourself.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/484589/national-s-maureen-pugh-chastised-over-climate-comments-she-s-gonna-be-doing-a-lot-of-reading
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/484602/national-mp-maureen-pugh-walks-back-climate-change-comments
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:13am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Luxon doesnt believe in freedom of speech. He is a command and control freak. Go ask his former employees at Air NZ. He is a nasty piece of works with form that will eventually come out and again show the National Party’s appalling candidate selection ability. I suspect that at some point during the campaign Labour are going to drop a bomb that will stuff National.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:42am
  - Random T Person
    
    And quite frankly National will have earned it. They have strayed from their principles, because apparently principles are malleable. “If you don’t like these ones, never mind, we have others’. To paraphrase Twain or someone, I think.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:29am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Luxon was elected leader by a fairly convincing margin … no other names were seriously put up.
      
      Go figure
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:07pm
    - David Lenny
      
      I recall Groucho Marx using that line in a movie, but he was not the first at all.
      
      Here’s Quote Investigator:
      
      QI found the following version of the quip in a New Zealand newspaper in 1873…
      
      He brought in the Provincial Loan Bill, declaring that, if the House did not accept it, he was prepared to adhere to his original proposal. It was something like the American legislator — “Them’s my principles; but if you don’t like them — I kin change them!”
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:29pm
- thirteenstars
  
  And hot off the press on state-funded breakfast TV this morning, that reporter guy with a face meant for radio (Paddy?), opined that Luxon has misread the room and his own party, big time, since it’s unlikely Luxon has interacted with a fraction of the party faithful that Pugh has, especially regards this issue, and that Pugh is right. He’ll get the cold shoulder in the smoko room.
  
  He also opined that win or lose the election, Luxon isn’t the type to stick around and will be off on the next stage of his career, which is highly likely, and which made me laugh out loud. Even the dog barked. But the luvvie sitting on the couch beside Paddy looked like she’d just sucked a lemon and uttered the utterances that self-righteous luvvies like to utter.
  
  The only result of Luxon’s poor judgment and outright stupidity is to strengthen ACT’s support and simultaneously assist Labour in squeaking back in. Why jump ship when the other boat’s under full sail on the same tack?
  
  And didn’t the media love seeing Pugh get taken out the back of the caucus room and smacked into shape with a rolled-up copy of Luxon’s reading list? They sense this Luxon chap is someone they can work with. He’s not so bad after all. Now that Labour look a little fragile it’s time to find a new sugar daddy and make sure the Public Interest Journalism Fund stays nicely liquid. Mahi-tahi and all that good stuff.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/maureen-pugh-can-t-be-living-in-the-21st-century-and-deny-human-induced-climate-change-is-real-christopher-luxon.html
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/national-mp-maureen-pughs-about-turn-on-climate-change-after-christopher-luxon-intervenes/XNLAINVHSZHGBMY2LERZ6KRFQI/
  
  And now we have talk of a “flood tax” which will morph into a climate change tax and oh, watch the trough feeders gather anew.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:56am
- Nothelen
  
  I watched the video clip where this was discussed by WCRC councillors.
  They wanted an official reply from the Climate Change Minister.
  A National MP has told reporters that she’s still “waiting on evidence” that humans have contributed to climate change. James Shaw did not reply to the request.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  The problem is the media trying to split some of Nat MPs, it should be against the law for these scum to do this crap, both Pugh and Hipango have been on the receiving end of media hit jobs, while threats eith huns in HB is simply lies
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:29pm
True man

Jan Tinetti admitted the attendance data for Term 3 was available Dec 22.
There have been many OIA requests for it and these requests have all been denied.
Why is the media silent on this? – this denial of release of this information when the Govt has had it for close on 2 months is arrogant and is against the intent of the OIA.
I could hazard a guess as to why there is silence….
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February 22, 2023 8:12am
- True man
  
  It seems everyone is more interested in what Maureen Pugh has to say rather than being concerned if their kids go to school or not
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:43am
- Cinematic
  
  Ignorant or illegal?
  
  How dare this inept bunch of Labour losers sully our democracy in this way. Bring on October.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:57am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  She should have thrown the vulgar Hipkins under the bus
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:36pm
Nickc2

Is there a political party in NZ where it’s not compulsory to be a Man Made Climate Change advocate?
If there is, that’s the party for me.
IMO, Luxon’s handling of Maureen Pugh was disgusting!
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February 22, 2023 8:12am
- Prince
  
  No, there isn’t.
  Tell you something ?
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:04am
  - Nickc2
    
    It tells me that most NZers are followers, not leaders!
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:10am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Prince – it’s confirmation that democracy is dying in NZ. No dissenting voice permitted. No free discussion. Follow the Party line or else. Very Soviet Union really.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hear hear, what that man said. Luxon is now on high octane cool aid.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:15am
- Cinematic
  
  Politicians from every party should pay attention first and foremost to NZs most pressing needs. There are many.
  
  Posturing on climate change is totally pointless. NZ is not in a position to make a blind bit of difference.
  
  It shouldn’t rank in the top 50 issues for any politician with moral fortitude. Instead we have a political class obsessed with it.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:02am
- Local Miller
  
  New Conservatives, but apparently they don’t exist based on the media.
  
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  February 22, 2023 3:51pm
HalfFull

Long time National voter just lost my vote to Act

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/02/22/after-convincing-maureen-pugh-of-climate-change-can-luxon-talk-to-federated-farmers-fonterra-and-groundswell-next/

Maybe he should read factual science instead of “could” (weasel word) science.
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February 22, 2023 8:13am
- Nickc2
  
  Razor Robinson for leader of the National Party eh?
  IMO, he can coach the ABs and debate Te Labour Govt and Te MSM at the same time and not break a sweat.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:16am
  - Colville
    
    and breakdance..
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think Luxon just shitted in his own nest.
  If anyone needs to walk back from their comment it is you, Comrade Luxon.
  We have a Democracy remember – or do we?
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:18am
  - Colville
    
    Your place of employment is not a democracy.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:38pm
- RoboRob
  
  Im pretty sure Act has the same position on climate change that all parties do, that its real. Act Mps don’t speak out against climate change either, could that be its the parties position in the same way as it was supposed to be Nationals.
  
  You might have to choose your vote for a party based on policies other then climate change 🙂
  
  p.s. I’m a likely Act voter this year too.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:25am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    RoboRrob – so it’s the same cowardice from these “representatives” that we witnessed during the covid circus? Great.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:00am
    - mawm
      
      Absolutely! Scared of being called “a climate denier”, of questioning “the science”. Next up “transphobia”?
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:35am
  - Random T Person
    
    After the protests, I’m no longer participating in ‘democracy’, recognising it for the sham it is. No place for honesty, no place for alternate viewpoints, no place for the rights of the individual, no place for common sense, no place for me.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:31am
  - thirteenstars
    
    No, ACT is not singing from the same hymn sheet as National at all.
    
    Seymour has gone to great lengths to speak of “adaptation” to climate change, which is about as sane as it gets since it implies living with the inevitable, and isn’t too far from having the attitude that every cloud has a silver lining, so let’s exploit it and at the same time build better drains and bridges.
    
    Most importantly, Seymour would never have thrown what amounts to a tantrum from Luxon over Pugh’s comments.
    
    I suspect that Seymour knows what Luxon in all his ESG-driven compassionate capitalism, corporate self-consciousness has never learned: that once you go all in you can’t back out. Luxon has placed National firmly in the hysterical the-sky-is-falling-and people-are-dying ranks of the Green Party and has outed himself as a Teal, which will only strengthen that faction’s hand within the National Party which will influence all manner of party policy, and for the worse.
    
    If, like Luxon, and National, you claim to believe in the coming climate apocalypse (as Maureen Pugh apparently now does…) you can no longer critique the other party’s rantings about the need to ban this and tax that, kill cows by the millions, restrict travel, hike energy costs, and every other form of intervention needed to prevent doomsday.
    
    Seymour has shown more circumspection and made the smarter policy statements. There seems to be night and day between he and Luxon.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:41am
    - RoboRob
      
      I meant that both Act and national acknowlege climate change exists. They might differ in how to deal with it, if at all, but neither party denies it. halfFull (and some others here) appear to be on the hunt for a party that denies climate change 🙂
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:07am
      - thirteenstars
        
        It’s the easiest thing in the world to make the statement: the climate is changing, or, it appears to be warming slightly, or some such.
        
        That’s not the same as going full-in on *anthropogenic* climate change and accusing people of being ignorant and callous because Gabrielle caused widespread destruction.
        
        That’s what Luxon did and it sure as hell rubs people up the wrong way, and so even if they know ACT also has climate change policies they put their vote there because Seymour seems a hell of a lot less dogmatic, more circumspect, and less desperate to get votes at any cost.
        
        And those that already had their doubts about Luxon haven’t had them allayed.
        
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        February 22, 2023 11:33am
      - kowtow
        
        No one “denies” climate change is real.
        
        Pugh said it was . And of course it’s real . Otherwise we wouldn’t be here given the retreat of the ice sheets allowed migration to the British Isles and thence to here.
        
        For goodness sake some parts of N Europe are still rising given the huge weight of ice that’s come off the landmass .This all in the relative blink of a geological eye.
        
        As to Act and actually the Nats in the past , when questioned they said , we’re a trading nation and if we want to trade with places like the EU we must fall in line . That was code for , it’s bollocks but ‘Paris is worth a Mass’.
        
        Now though ole Lux has gone balls deep and has gone all “denier” talk , it’s real , I’ve seen it , with all the passion of the recent convert evangelic type enthusiast .
        
        And on the basis of that and the fact that there’s a plethora of genuine science , complex , that shows it’s many natural causes , I’m prepared to say the man and his “leadership team” are idiots who have to stop listening to focus groups , stop being afraid of being challenged by te media pardy , man up , grow a pair and be a true National Party leader who will lives up to the party’s principles , cos if he doesn’t want to perhaps he’d be more at home in the Greens or labour.
        
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        February 22, 2023 1:11pm
      - JJ56
        
        The only deniers are those that deny the uncertainty.
        
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        February 22, 2023 2:40pm
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      I hope like hell you’re right about Seymour, and I fear you’re right about Luxon. Luxon can’t argue against any climate change policy, no matter how insane, because any opposition means he’s a denier, or minimising the problem.
      Seymour seems to be our last best hope.
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:26am
      - kowtow
        
        Luxon has nailed his colours to the mast , in no uncertain terms .
        
        Act is the last best hope ( and I don’t agree with every thing stand for either)
        
        But a lot real and meaningful change would come from that direction , not the current crop of Nats.
        
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        February 22, 2023 1:13pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Luxons comments last week was about adaptation, not bloody banning things like Labour, he wants new infrastructure to cope with storms
      
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      February 22, 2023 12:39pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        National subscribes to Net Zero and it’s impossible to implement such an ideology without raising prices and restricting human activities.
        
        But most importantly National, under Luxon, has stated that AGW was the cause of Cyclone Gabrielle, which is why Pugh was raked over the coals.
        
        When your belief is that humans are killing each other via human-caused climate change then you have no choice but to heavily regulate human activity , food production and energy consumption. In the face of such a belief, to think you can stop killer cyclones by building more drains is indulging in wilful ignorance about what words actually mean.
        
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        February 22, 2023 1:16pm
      - kowtow
        
        Nope , his language , yesterday is exactly that of the Loony Left .
        
        The message to his caucus was clear: “If you’re a climate denier or climate minimiser today, that’s just not an acceptable position,” Luxon said.
        
        Source RNZ
        
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        February 22, 2023 1:20pm
      - JJ56
        
        The problem with trying to attribute a very rare regional event (the cyclone) to a trend that is difficult to separate from background noise (anthropogenic climate change) is it is very hard. In practice it only gets done in climate models, and they aren’t really good enough to give huge confidence.
        
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        February 22, 2023 2:46pm
    - kisekiman
      
      Never go full retard. Luxon went full retard.
      
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      February 23, 2023 4:15am
Maggie Pie

A friend of my partner made a prediction last night…..

He predicted the Right will soon become the Far-Right.
Why? Because people like us are becoming sick and f**king tired of the way this country is being run and turning into nothing more than a total shit-show.
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February 22, 2023 8:17am
- Frank the tank
  
  It already is the far right. If you don’t support Derek transitioning into Danielle, are a Socialist Globalist and support co-governance you are already kin to Brendon Tarrant. That is how parties such as Act are framed.
  
  Wear it like a badge of honor.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:22am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Maggie – we’ll be labelled “far right” because it’s a handy label to stick on anyone the loony left can’t debate with. It’s a distraction.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:22am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Anything to the right of ‘largely center left’ is extreme right wing
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:21am
    - Jethrod
      
      The left /right thing is not a straight line. It is shaped like a horseshoe, so the further around the shoe you go, the closer you get to extreme right/ extreme left and become the same.
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:17am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  “He predicted the Right will soon become the Far-Right.”
  
  There is no “soon” about it. It is here. Opposing the teaching of Maori mythology as part of the science curriculum equals “far right racist extremist”.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:40am
  - thirteenstars
    
    And how long before Luxon has a go at the next Maureen Pugh for not genuflecting to Maori culture or opining about misinterpretations of the Treaty?
    
    National is now firmly a centre-left party. If you want to believe crazy stuff then look elsewhere.
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:01am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “He predicted the Right will soon become the Far-Right.”
  
  If the Right stays put but the Left moves further out, then from the Left’s perspective, the Right has become the Far-Right.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wise words….. Sensei 😀
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Funny how you can change the position of one group by changing your own position and not there position.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:24am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      SO – that’s the Overton Window.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:02am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Never heard of it. Learn something new every day.
        
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        February 22, 2023 11:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      their* position.
      
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      February 22, 2023 12:54pm
Frank the tank

Notice how ClimateChange is MAN MADE. Are females totally innocent/carbon neutral with regards to this?
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February 22, 2023 8:19am
- Frank the tank
  
  Oh and while we are on Climate Change how about those mid 90s claims that Venice was going to be the second coming of Atlantis. Not looking too great when you can walk down some of them at the moment.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:26am
  - Ruawai
    
    How is Mont Saint Michel not under water yet as well?
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:51am
    - kowtow
      
      Or Holland overwhelmed .
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:25pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Get it right Frank.
  
  It’s Peoplekind made climate change!
  
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  February 22, 2023 2:00pm
Gravelroad

Maureen Pugh MP is entitled to her views and personal opinions on issues such as climate change.
But why fall into the media trap and make a fool of herself yesterday?
The reporters and their political enablers will be having a huge laugh at National’s expense.
I would have thought that if you are part of a political team which has a policy on an issue, you would put aside your own preferences and say nothing to disagree with it in public.
But not Ms Pugh, who has caused embarrassment to her party and challenged the voters’ confidence in it.
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February 22, 2023 8:19am
- ClanMcleod
  
  “Has a policy on an issue” – I think it’s called “groupthink”. It’s certainly a chilling attack on free speech.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:24am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Do you want National to win the election?
    Or not?
    Get real people.
    For National to win they need the support of the urban swing voters , not to mention the cautious women and the know-all youth.
    I think the National Party could have well done without Ms Pugh’s personal contribution – especially at the present time.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:49am
    - Random T Person
      
      At the cost of their core constituency?
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:03am
      - Nickc2
        
        Luxon could have stated that National is a Broad-Based Party and people in it are entitled to their personal views (unlike Labour).
        
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        February 22, 2023 9:09am
      - Gravelroad
        
        So the core constituency will be happy with another Labour/Green/Maori Party government?
        
        Okaaay.
        Not me.
        
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        February 22, 2023 9:12am
      - RoboRob
        
        You assume that the core constituency all think the same way as you.
        
        Perhaps they feel ‘We shouldn’t pander to the fraction of our base that refuses to believe in climate change, at the cost of the bulk of our support base’.
        
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        February 22, 2023 9:29am
      - RoboRob
        
        @Nickc2 Agree. That would be the principled position.
        
        I think however, with the way the media is, such a position just leaves national open to attack and claims of flip flopping or not having policy.
        
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        February 22, 2023 9:30am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        They are after the centre, if the right go to act they go to act, but rubbishing the Nats has non committed voters heading back to Labour
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:41pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Robo Rob @9:30AM
        The retort then to Te MSM should have been: “Your guys obviously have your own no fallback position, that being getting this Corrupt Leftist Govt re-elected eh?”
        “BTW, how much is the Govt paying you lot for pushing this line?”
        
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        February 22, 2023 3:45pm
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Is there any difference between Labour and National? Right now, I get the feeling that Luxon wants to go even harder/faster than Labour/Green down the climate change idiocy path.
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:21am
      - Random T Person
        
        Classic National. We’ll do Labour, but more efficiently.
        
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        February 22, 2023 10:33am
- Cassandra
  
  It didn’t take long. There’s an article in Newsroom this morning asking if “climate deniers” should be in Parliament. Galileo had better watch himself. The science is settled – earth is flat.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:32am
  - Ruawai
    
    The term climate deniers is gas lighting, it is implying that you are denying the truth. Bit like saying an atheist is a god denier.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:54am
  - Inandout
    
    Cass, well we have democracy deniers in Parliament and we still pay their salaries.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:15am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Oh, well said.
      
      Yes, any supporter of co-governance, which means over half of parliament are democracy deniers, or one person-one vote deniers, which is a far more proximate threat than any long-term climate warming.
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:30pm
  - Spam
    
    What the media won’t tell you about floods
    What the media won’t tell you about hurricanes
    
    Both analyses that reference actual IPCC reports.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The trouble with Maureen Pugh is that she can not clearly explain her reasoning.
  
  The fact that she then does a flip and seems to contradict her earlier statement does her no favours…and helps to devalue the stance of those of us who believe natural causes are the driving force between fluctuations in our climate.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:32am
  - MCōs
    
    Simon Bridges had her summed up.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:36am
    - kowtow
      
      What would we prefer , given the context of that leaked discussion.
      
      The CCP buying seats and influence in our parliament.
      
      That’s the real point of that story that everyone seems to be going to great lengths to ignore …..
      
      a new term “China denier”.
      
      This is a huge issue in Canada at this very moment .
      
      Our te media pardy ………crickets or Trump.
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:29pm
      - Simon
        
        Yep China doesnt need to send balloons down to NZ they have the national party
        
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        February 22, 2023 2:30pm
  - nathie
    
    Agree. Just to add, if Maureen Pugh was on top of the subject she could have said something like the following:
    
    “I don’t agree with NZ’s man made emissions affecting the weather greatly as NZ only contributes 0.1 (or whatever it is – 0.17?) to global warming”.
    
    Now if she said that, and left it at that, then Labour/Greens would likely back down. Saying that because we see time and time again the Far-Left saying in response “well it’s about playing our part” because even they can recognise 0.17 (I think) is an insignificant amount in terms of NZ’s efforts to make meaningful reductions to supposedly reduce global warming or whatever.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:45am
  - Paulus
    
    Worth reading the details of the whole Pugh affair not the extracts that the media wants.
    
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    February 22, 2023 2:04pm
- Prince
  
  Simon Bridges gave a very accurate description of Pugh some years ago.
  That she is still an MP is an embarrassment to the party, and is now costing them dearly in public support.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:08am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Fair point but I’d ask why every National MP is not led through an exercise of how to deal with “Gotcha” questions on a whole range of topics?
    
    Admittedly with Luxon and Willis in charge a set of Climate Change talking points for MP’s like would not include the following:
    
    No detectable human impact on hurricanes over the past century
    – CSSR Section 9.2, IPCC AR5 WGI Section 2.6.3; Knutson et al., BAMS (2019)
    
    The net economic impact of 6°C warming (if it happened) will be minimal.
    – IPCC AR5 WGI, Chapter 10; NCA2018, Figure 29.3; Tol (2018)
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:15am
  - kowtow
    
    The embarasment was that a $70000 ‘donation’ cough cough could get you a seat in parliament .
    
    If I recall correctly.
    
    Happy to be corrected .
    
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    February 22, 2023 1:31pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wrong. Saying nothing to disagree with it in public means your “free speech” has been taken away. You get into the position of having to lie to keep the peace.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:28am
  - Random T Person
    
    AKA compromising your principles. This is the level of integrity in NZ Parliament today.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:33am
  - Widogast Corwin
    
    Members of Parliament who are members of political parties have their ‘free speech’ somewhat curtailed – not in the caucus room, but in public. Cabinet Ministers even more so. They are required to support policies which they may have opposed when those policies were formulated. They know that this is the deal when they join up.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:41am
  - Prince
    
    MP’s are expected to maintain policies of the Party that got them into Parliament.
    By all means Pugh could expouse her opinions and run as an independent, but she is just giving Labour/Greens a free hit on National at the moment.
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:39am
- Yvette
  
  Maureen Pugh’s attempted hit job on James Shaw was so amateurish, and getting herself and Luxon caught in the retaliatory cross-fire, so classic textbook that Special Victims Unit(SVU)’s DA will refer to it in Court as Pugh v Media, or Luxon v Luxon.
  
  Media 1, Pugh 0, Luxon -1
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:44am
- Surely Knott
  
  If the mp’s all have to agree with the party why do we even have mp’s. They certainly don’t return emails if you ask them a difficult question on one of the sacrosanct subjects.
  
  Why not just only have a party vote and a party executive and be honest about it. Imagine the savings we could make.
  
  And we could discontinue the farce that we have a parliament full of people that represent the diversity of NZ.
  
  The only considerations to join the party vs independent should be whether you subscribe to the core values
  
  Loyalty to our country, its democratic principles and our Sovereign as Head of State.
  Recognition of the Treaty of Waitangi as the founding document of New Zealand
  National and personal security
  Equal citizenship and equal opportunity
  Individual freedom and choice
  Personal responsibility
  Competitive enterprise and rewards for achievement
  Limited Government
  Strong families and caring communities
  Sustainable development of our environment
  
  It doesn’t say you have to believe in man made climate change or still not fully approved mrna vaccines. If those are bottom lines put them on your values list Nats.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:07am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Your argument would be better directed against political parties. Individuals can stand for Parliament with whatever views they espouse, exactly as you would like them to do.
    
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    February 22, 2023 7:08pm
  - Observer of Life
    
    Surely Knot: “… They certainly don’t return emails if you ask them a difficult question on one of the sacrosanct subjects…
    
    [Mod – unnecessary]
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:20pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      [Mod – not up for debate]
      
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      February 22, 2023 9:38pm
- MCōs
  
  If Maureen Pugh doesn’t believe in man made climate change, which she obviously doesn’t, but she says she does to save her miserable political career she’s not worth the paper her signature is written on.
  The Nats should give her an unwinable list ranking . . . . again.
  
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  February 22, 2023 1:33pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    People should be accepted or rejected in politics based on their religious “beliefs”?
    
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    February 22, 2023 2:02pm
I remember when

AM Show:
I actually agree with something Paddy Gower has to say.
Christopher Luxon has to let Maureen Pugh be Maureen Pugh.
In case he hasn’t noticed we already have enough parroters in Parliament.
Freedom includes freedom of thought!!
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February 22, 2023 8:31am
- Gravelroad
  
  Yes, well he would say that, wouldn’t he.
  It is just a tactic.
  The left wing Mr Gower is being disingenuous.
  He will be pleased to see any National Party MP speaking against the party’s leadership and policy positions because that sort of thing creates division and uncertainty both within a political party and the electorate.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:55am
  - RoboRob
    
    Yup lefty Gower knows full well the damage letting ‘Pugh be Pugh’ will do to the National party and the opportunities Gower will have to say things like…
    
    ‘Nationals confusing policy position on … ‘ or
    ‘Nationals secret anti climate change agenda’
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:33am
- nathie
  
  I didn’t see the AM Show for context, but taking things at face value I don’t trust Gower.
  
  If he says “let Maureen Pugh be Maureen Pugh” then that suggests that’s to allow the MSM to “toy” with her and set her up again in the future.
  
  It also comes across as Gower (and MSM) having a superiority complex – that they are the “font of knowledge” and people like Maureen Pugh are “silly old billies” stuck in their outdated ways and to be laughed at behind their backs.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Freedom also includes ‘Freedom of Speech”
  Maureen Pugh has had that taken away.
  Free Speech is a weapon of War. JA
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:36am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  See my comment above in the thread. National MPs have ‘freedom of speech’ in the caucus room. In public they are required to support Party policy positions, even though they may have opposed them. Why do I even need to explain this?
  
  Paddy Gower is simply trying to cause trouble.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:43am
  - Prince
    
    Exactly. But that goes over the head of some on this blog. I suspect, like Gower, they are closet Labour/Green voters.
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:41am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  OK would you support Ms Pugh if she came out and said “Gangs are the victims of colonisation. They need our support”? Free speech and all. Or are you just cheering her because she reinforces your views on climate change?
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:45am
Maggie Pie

And further proof (if it was even needed) of the Wests moral decay….

‘SPAIN LEGALIZES SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH ANIMALS’

https://oopstop.com/spain-legalizes-sexual-intercourse-with-animals-as-long-as-it-doesnt-harm-them/

Totally in line with the WEF’s agenda to depopulate the world.

Guess it won’t be long till we see a ‘Zoophilia-Parade’ along Ponsonby Rd 🙁
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February 22, 2023 8:43am
- Random T Person
  
  You know what really annoys me about this? Back when it was illegal to be gay, all sorts of weirdos said ‘if you let the gays have at it, soon they will say it’s OK to bang animals and kids’. Which I thought absurd and a complete false equivalence, as there is nothing at all wrong with fancying someone with the same undies.
  Now look. Who would have thought those weirdos were right.
  And I am confident that a vast majority of gay folk are facepalming as hard as I am. There is no equivalence at all, and yet one thing does seem to have led to the next.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:48am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    When one of the girls from tennis read this, she said her biggest concern is that Undertakers might form a lobby group.
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:06am
    - Random T Person
      
      Ye gods, so it isn’t all short skirts and whacking a wee yellow ball around after all.
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:35am
    - Jack5
      
      Meanwhile, still legal in Spain is bull fighting, in which the animals are subjected to painful, prolonged death.
      
      Also for entertainment of Spanish people, I guess.
      
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      February 23, 2023 12:34am
  - Local Miller
    
    It wasn’t the weirdos saying this, it was the Christians. In fact the Christians have been predicting the slippery slope for a long time. We predicted that when being gay and gay relationships were legalized we predicted Gay Marriage was on the cards. All the time they told us the just wanted to not be seen as criminals. Then the gay community pressed for Civil Union Rights, and again we predicted Gay Marriage was the eventual plan. No, No we were assured, Civil Union is all they wanted.
    Sure enough eventually Gay Marriage has been legalized. It’s only the Christians, at least those of us who actually believe what the Bible says, who have been right all along and still believe that some things are wrong.
    Without an objective baseline of right and wrong, in the end anything goes. I predict that in a few years time bestiality will be legal in NZ, and quite possibly Adult/Child sex, “as long as the child is happy in the relationship”.
    You read it first here.
    
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    February 22, 2023 4:25pm
- MCōs
  
  Reminds me of something I read.
  Janis Ian, well known singer from the seventies, told a friend she was having lunch in a cafe with her father when he spotted a young woman with a multi coloured mohawk.
  He went over to her and said he once fucked a parrot and wondered if she might be his daughter?
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:01am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL!! 😛
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:10am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Just got txt this one sent to me Cossie….
    
    Mexican guy in court on a charge of Bestiality.
    Judge says…. “I can’t believe you have sex with dogs. It’s absolutely disgusting. Honestly, how low can you go?”
    Mexican relies…”probably a chihuahua”
    
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    February 22, 2023 9:34am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It already happens in the Ponsonby Rd Parade.
  Sexual deviants.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:38am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And they told Warney to put his wanga away. 😃👍🏻
    
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    February 22, 2023 2:47pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Presumably the animals were “consulted” about this…..
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:09am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  Man, the Chinese leadership will be loving this. The West in decay. Having sex with donkeys is OK. Girls can be surgically changed into boys. Totally OK. The Sky God is now the new “Physics with New Zealand Characteristics”.
  
  Talk about self-destructing.
  
  Even 10 years ago, did any commentator here think that we would be in this state in 2023?
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:49am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    As my partner says…even Putin’s Russia is looking better by the day.
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:11am
- cmm
  
  These will be the same Spaniards who dumped their surplus Covid Juice on us….
  
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  February 22, 2023 4:39pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Guess it won’t be long till we see a ‘Zoophilia-Parade’ along Ponsonby Rd
  ———————————————————————
  
  Sponsored by Auckland Council and the SPCA
  
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  February 22, 2023 7:11pm
- Ghost
  
  https://www.thelocal.es/20230221/fact-check-no-spain-has-not-legalised-bestiality/
  
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  February 22, 2023 7:25pm
greybeard

Word of the Year 2022: “unprecedented”
Word of the Year 2023: “flood-plain”
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February 22, 2023 8:48am
- NZer In Exile
  
  I still can’t get 2020’s nauseating drivel word “pivot” out of my head. Aaaagggghhhh!!!
  
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  February 22, 2023 2:04pm
Ian Boag

A side effect that Luxon mentioned in passing this morning. There are a few hundred RSEs now out of work in Hawkes Bay. Immigration rules mean they can’t be redeployed – basically RSE workers are “owned” by their employers. That stops the worker from going down the road to an employer who might offer better conditions.

Last numbers I saw for RSEs were something like – total demand about 14000 and number permitted was about 8000. I imagine if this rule were relaxed, the out of work ones would be redeployed elsewhere in the country in no time flat.
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February 22, 2023 9:09am
- RoboRob
  
  100%. The minister of immigration was on TV last week talking about freeing up rules. I think they should check back in a month to see what, if anything, he has done. My bet is nothing practical, just words.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:35am
- Matt Long
  
  I do know someone trying to redeploy RSE workers to flood cleanup, he’s written up a proposal for government.
  I guess Wood, or whoever has immigration now, will give the thumbs up in 2035, but all power to the proposal.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:10am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Possibly even allow RSE workers to change employers at will … like any other worker … maybe they don’t want to do flood cleanup and would rather do “normal” ag work someplace else in the country. Housing the ones whose workplaces are under mud would also be a challenge.
    
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    December 22, 2022 12:36pm
    - Jack5
      
      The RSE scheme is already under review after Equal Employment Opportunity Commissioner Karanina Sumeo said some RSE workers were being exploited, bonded to unreasonable debt and living in very poor conditions.
      
      Here’s the case of slavery from the RSE scheme:
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/27/samoan-chief-slavery-trafficking-sentenced-11-years-new-zealand
      
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      February 22, 2023 1:35pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  As usual he is making sense, Hipkins is on about getting dole bludgers (bottom feeders) doing work after Auckland floods, this tight here is where the law ch as fed like at Kaikoura were used to change the law to speed up processes, these guys could be used the same way the road was able to be repaired virtually the day after the quake
  
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  February 22, 2023 2:51pm
Grunter

If anyone was in doubt that there is a ‘problem’ with the COVID jabs then the latest data release from Health New Zealand following a Freedom of Information (OIA) request should convince you.

The figures are signed off by Astrid Koornneef, Interim Director of Prevention, National Public Health Service.
Link below summarises the unsurprising, but all-the-same shocking mortality results from taking the jab.

Overall excess deaths in NZ in 2022 were +15% higher than 2019, that’s more than 5,000 excess deaths. Some were COVID of course, but the rest we aren’t allowed to talk about!

And let’s not forget who the main man in charge of this mess in NZ was – Hipkins.

https://hatchardreport.com/newly-released-figures-demonstrate-that-mrna-boosters-have-had-a-deadly-impact-increasing-all-cause-mortality/
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February 22, 2023 9:11am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  It is the same the world over except Sweden, which famously had no lockdowns.
  
  Sweden did have high vaccination rates – about 75 percent compared to 95 percent in New Zealand.
  
  https://ycharts.com/indicators/sweden_coronavirus_full_vaccination_rate
  
  I think that the major cause of excess deaths is not the vaccine killing people (although it has killed some people). It is crowding out of treatment for serious illness.
  
  Of course this outcome was totally foreseeable. Now politicians are silent. Try asking Chris Hipkins about the cause of excess deaths in New Zealand. I doubt there is a journalist who would dare ask the question, or who is even aware of what is happening.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:37am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Widogast – like climate change, we aren’t allowed to talk about it…..
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:11am
  - Matt Long
    
    Also a lack of vitamin D for those locked inside and poor ventilation.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:12am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Steve Kirsch presents data saying that the more you jab, the higher your risk of death from covid.
    
    https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/new-zealand-government-data-shows
    
    I’m not a statistics person, but his argument seems compelling. Certainly there are other causes of increased mortality, pretty much every single intervention by Hipkins, Ardern and co cause increased mortality. It will be almost impossible to get definitive numbers, but that is because of deliberate data distortion and cover ups everywhere.
    Just the simple fact of calling someone “unvaccinated” for 2 weeks from receiving the jab makes a mockery of data. That, and running PCR tests at 45 cycles makes the whole official narrative a clusterfuck to unravel.
    
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    February 22, 2023 10:28am
    - mawm
      
      There are some interesting graphs of the NZ data here.
      https://pharmafiles.substack.com/p/new-zealands-2022-data-is-out
      
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      February 22, 2023 10:46am
    - NothingLeft
      
      That analysis is super weak. You can’t draw any conclusions from presented data on relative rates of death for vaxxed boosted and unvaxxed because each of those groups has vastly different underlying risk profiles that are not controlled for. Seriously ill people are highly likely (and sensible) to get boosted. Healthy people will (sensibly) mostly skip it.
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:45am
- RoboRob
  
  Not wanting to get into the Vax debate but (lol)
  
  You are assuming that the additional non COVID deaths are related to the vaxing. That could be true but you might want to consider more mundane factors like the health system being overloaded and not treating people soon enough. My dad has terminal cancer, which started out as skin cancer but they didn’t deal with it for ~8mths after diagnosis.
  
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  February 22, 2023 9:38am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I don’t see anyone assuming anything. “correlation is not causation” etc. All of the interventions increased all cause mortality. Getting actual numbers is difficult because the data has been bastardised, deliberately.
    Unless a post mortem is done on every death (impossible) we won’t know for sure. But there are way more than enough signals showing that this jab should be immediately withdrawn while genuine testing is done.
    If it was to happen it will expose so many people to charges of malfeasance.
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:06am
    - RoboRob
      
      I was responding to
      
      ‘If anyone was in doubt that there is a ‘problem’ with the COVID jabs then the latest data release from Health New Zealand following a Freedom of Information (OIA) request should convince you.’
      
      The implication being that the increase in deaths proves vax bad. As you note, it absolutely does not. Correlation is not causation.
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:10am
    - Grunter
      
      The data shows, for example, that those with 3 jabs had a higher death rate than everyone else. So the claim that the jabs will mean less deaths did not hold true. That’s what the data shows. Not an opinion.
      
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      February 22, 2023 11:49am
      - peterwn
        
        Perhaps those who were health risks (age, heart condition, treated cancer etc) and hence more likely to die anyway were more likely to seek jabs than others. This would explain the death rate was higher for the jabbed.
        
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        February 22, 2023 12:37pm
- Bridgenag
  
  New Zealand government data shows that the COVID vaccines make you MORE likely to die from COVID (not less)
  https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/new-zealand-government-data-shows?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
  
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  February 22, 2023 6:22pm
Tom Barker

I never felt Simon Bridges was particularly astute but he seems to have summed up Maureen Pugh’s contribution to parliament in a single pungent phrase
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February 22, 2023 9:34am
- kowtow
  
  Was it along the lines of two Indians or some such.
  
  Or how much is a China man worth when it comes to cough cough donations.
  
  There was a hell of a lot more to that conversation that some rudeness towards a sitting MP.
  
  Meanwhile , where did that CCP police station in Auckland get to .
  
  Or isn’t that controversial enuff for our fearless media pardy .
  
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  February 22, 2023 1:41pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Again, it was not Bridges who said that 2 Indians, it was the filthy scum trying the hit job
    
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    February 22, 2023 2:53pm
    - kowtow
      
      He wasn’t part of the conversation?
      
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      February 22, 2023 6:44pm
Surely Knott

Stuff shares some of the poetry readings from Donna Tusiata (Queens honours). Wiki says she is of European (mother) and Samoan descent.

Sorry for the profanity but this is what she says in the stuff video verbatim. Is this hate speech would you say?

“250th anniversary of James Cooks Arrival in New Zealand.

Hey James Yeah you in the white wig in the big endeavour sailing the ocean like a big arsehole. Fuck You Bitch
James I heard someone shoved a knife into your white ribs at Kealakekua Bay. I’m going to go there. Make a big Maka Heke Luaua (spelling?)
Cook a white pig, feed it to the dogs, and fuck you up Bitch.

Hey James. It’s us. These days were driving around in SUV’s and looking for you or white men like you. Who might be thieves or rapists or murderers or any of your descendants or incarnations. Because eh bitch we’re going to fuck you up. ”

Then it carries on with a story of her and a car full of brown girls and a pig hunting knife in the justice precinct and they’re coming to get you. Watch your ribs James.

Ending, “We’re going to fuck you up for good, bitch”

Will this make waiting at the train station in our mixed neighbourhood more dangerous for European men, women and children. Lol remember when Stuff said the parliamentary protests were dangerous or that Jacinda was abused and unsafe. Did they ever provide any examples of that abuse. Can they provide any as violent or hateful as this.

https://twitter.com/EerjkMcRaeOF/status/1627948073883406337
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February 22, 2023 9:45am
- peterwn
  
  Chris Luxon also had doubts about his safety (and as far as I know has no Police protection). Interesting too that Labour squawked about the police protection John Key received when he became PM.
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:31pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    When Luxon was asked about campaigning and if he would be in public, he said absolutely
    
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    February 22, 2023 2:56pm
- Swifty
  
  I’m stunned that Stuff would post that.
  
  The double-standard in this country has just completely got out of control.
  
  Hey Labour, hey Greens, is this the hate speech you keep carping on about? If this piece was written and spoken by a European about Pacific or Maori people, let’s say Pacific or Maori rapists or granny murderers, would you think it ok?
  
  Or would you be screaming that this is hate speech and will lead to violence against brown communities?
  
  Or can we agree that you maintain two sets of books, two standards for behaviour? One for Europeans, and where you will excoriate them for the deeds of their long-dead ancestors, and one for Brown folk who can do no wrong?
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:48pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    It’s not just this issue or this nation, Swifty.
    
    If the Left didn’t have double standards they’d have no standards at all
    
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    February 22, 2023 3:29pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Remind me who the Minister of Broadcasting is again and who had the passage of Hate Speech laws. Oh, that’s right, they are both of the chosen race in NZ.
    Maori in NZ can do no wrong eh? //
    FFS, bring back democracy in NZ before it’s lost forever.
    
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    February 22, 2023 4:59pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  She sounds very intelligent. 🙄
  
  What a fine contribution!
  
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  February 22, 2023 2:06pm
coge

The National party is better served, and indeed the constituency, when there are a variety of opinions allowed in the tent. Sadly under Luxon, this is no longer the case. National have been bleeding votes consistently since early 2022. Hundreds of thousand of votes.
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February 22, 2023 9:49am
- Prince
  
  The polls prove that wrong. A united, consistent National Party rose sharply in the polls under Luxon’s leadership.
  You must know that Pugh’s ballsup will cost them votes now.
  
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  February 22, 2023 11:46am
  - kowtow
    
    Ha , they were doing better under Bridges.
    
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    February 22, 2023 1:43pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No they were not, Bridges was polling at 47/% he opened his mouth during covid, and the party plummeted to mid 20s and apart from a bump for Muller up to 38% for a couple of months, Nats stayed in the 20%, also ACT were on 1%
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:59pm
      - kowtow
        
        ‘Bridges was polling at 47/%’
        
        I rest my case.
        
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        February 22, 2023 6:43pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      No you do not bloody rest your case, he dropped it to mid 20% in a month
      
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      February 22, 2023 8:57pm
      - Jack5
        
        First Covid case in NZ: 28 Feb 2020.
        
        Bridges replaced by Muller: 22 May 2020.
        
        The link below shows:
        
        February 2020: February 2020 Bridges’ personal popularity increased in Newshub’s poll to reach 10.6 per cent against Jacinda Ardern on 38.7 per cent, while National overtook Labour in popularity on 43.3 per cent compared with Labour on 42.5 per cent.
        
        April 2020: Some National MPs told Newshub they were unimpressed by Simon Bridges’s tone during the Covid crisis, pointing to a Facebook post in which he questioned the decision to extend the Covid lockdown. [In hindsight, Bridges was correct.]
        
        May 2020: A Newshub-Reid Research Poll showed National at 30.6 per cent, compared with Labour at 56.5 per cent. Bridges’ ranking as preferred PM dropped to 4.5 per cent against Jacinda Ardern at 59.5 per cent.
        
        Bridges was ousted as National Opposition leader on May 22.
        
        [The results of Sweden’s different policy on Covid, and the heavy economic damage of NZ’s national Covid shutdown and of the resultant money-printing freeze indicate Bridges was right about Covid.]
        
        Details:
        
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/the-rise-and-demise-of-simon-bridges-a-timeline-of-his-key-moments-as-national-leader.html
        
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        February 23, 2023 12:56am
      - Jack5
        
        Edit: money printing ~~freeze~~ frenzy.
        
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        February 23, 2023 1:06am
  - coge
    
    “Look over there!, it’s Maureen Pugh!” Another own goal for Luxon.
    
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    February 22, 2023 3:15pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…..

Police Commissioner says he believes in health benefits of Perineum Sunning.

😀 😀 😀
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February 22, 2023 9:55am
- Random T Person
  
  Arse about face as usual…
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:38am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Spotted recently on roof of building in Wellington’s Molesworth Street.
    
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    February 22, 2023 11:26am
ClanMcleod

Small canals in Venice dry up during super low tides>

I thought Venice was going underwater a decade ago? Make your fucking mind up greenies……

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/travel/small-canals-in-venice-dry-up-during-super-low-tides/IBBFVPFD2JGK7IWO2O35C4AJ6Y/
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February 22, 2023 10:16am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Apologies for the errant hypertext thingy.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:22am
Yvette

Failed Pugh attempted hit on Shaw misses target and takes out herself and Luxon as collateral damage

Comment: National Party MP Maureen Pugh echoed an old adage of climate deniers on Tuesday when asked about her belief in human-caused global warming.
The climate, she said, has always changed, but she was still awaiting evidence that humans are causing changes this time around.
…
Legislators make decisions on policy that have concrete effects on people’s lives and the country’s climate response. It’s clearly untenable for people who deny the fact of climate change to be making those calls.
The rapid backlash to Pugh’s statements and her unconvincing retraction show that the public and most sitting MPs also see climate denial as an automatic disqualifier for holding office.
But it’s not much better to be in the situation we now find ourselves in, where Pugh’s true views are clear but everyone pretends her clarification is her position.
Christopher Luxon had an opportunity to show how seriously he takes climate change, particularly in light of the cyclone, by handing down serious consequences for Pugh. Instead, he’s let her get away with it – keeping the door to Parliament open a crack for any future climate deniers who may seek a seat.
This isn’t a problem that’s going away for him. The symbolism was almost too perfect on Tuesday as he delivered his first political speech in Parliament since the resignation of Jacinda Ardern and the devastation of Cyclone Gabrielle. Sat directly behind him in the House, almost looming over him, was Pugh.
Luxon didn’t mention climate change a single time in his 20-minute speech.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/climate-deniers-should-not-be-mps?utm_source=Newsroom&utm_campaign=42ebf0023e-Daily_Briefing 22.02.2023&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-42ebf0023e-97987242

other marksmen who have joined in –
Marc Daalder
is a senior political reporter based in Wellington who covers Covid-19, climate change, energy, technology and violent extremism.
Comments by Maurice Butler, Fliss Butcher
read further material from these writers with the suspicion they are now due
They appear to be part of the media team of aerosols
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February 22, 2023 10:19am
Biscuit

War
Pestilence
A Labour Government still mismanaging the country
A horrendous Golfing defeat the other day

and

now

Real Madrid scoring 4 goals at Anfield

With still 24 minutes to play

Woe is me!
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February 22, 2023 10:28am
Biscuit

Whoops, make that 5…

More woe…
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February 22, 2023 10:29am
- pdm
  
  Has the game finished yet?
  
  Could be 7 or 8 by now if it hasn’t.
  
  Anfield that is Liverpools home ground isn’t it?
  Asking for a friend.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:43am
- JimBobJoe
  
  what is worse is the Reds were 2 nil up. Our midfield just doesn’t work and we are making so many errors gifting easy chances that its hard to believe anything positive will come from the season at all.
  
  but never mind Biscuit we will be back.
  
  YNWA
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:53am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    YNWA
    
    Unless your name is Loris Karius
    
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    February 22, 2023 7:18pm
I remember when

Cyclone Bola, 1988, was widespread affecting 20,000+ km2.
Estimated total damage of $72 million.
Rainfall 500 to 900mm over a period of 4 days.
Eye witness account, “When Cyclone Bola hit us, we saw this 100 foot-long pine tree; that pine tree hit the bridge pylon straight on.
And there was this huge thing like an exsplosion.
The whole pine tree splattered into millions and millions of match sticks.”
The damage to communities, infrastructure, from wind, water and silt, was life changing.
Something had to be done.
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February 22, 2023 10:37am
- Inandout
  
  Something was done, the Gisborne rail was closed.
  
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  February 22, 2023 10:49am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Yeah. One train a week. Repair cost beyond stupid …
    
    2 1
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    February 22, 2023 12:01pm
Inandout

For a US President this is the pits.
https://twitter.com/AZgeopolitics/status/1628071828664070155
The man is a wreck.
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February 22, 2023 10:47am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And this….
  
  Bides caught on hot-mic in Poland commenting on the 3 UFOs shout down –
  
  Biden: “You think any of these guys bought that bullshit?”
  
  Aide: “Totally!”
  
  Biden: “They’ll buy anything. Lets get outta here”
  
  https://twitter.com/isrealUSAforeve/status/1627778457143857189
  
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  February 22, 2023 11:22am
  - Ghost
    
    Would have been a time that wouldn’t be aired. Guess the puppet masters want the puppet gone.
    
    7 0
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    February 22, 2023 11:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jill was not there to babysit him.
  
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  February 22, 2023 11:26am
Yvette

Pugh / Shaw / Media / Luxon

Go back to the original early reports of the Pugh / Shaw context of the question, and media then cherry-picking her answer and asked Luxon to comment on that.
Luxon then fucked up, by not sorting that original context.

Luxon has momentarily crossed over and completed the hit-job that the cherry-picking media started on Pugh.
While everyone is fucking around with reality and logic –
I probably won’t vote for a party lead by such a chump as Luxon
– is that at all illogical?
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February 22, 2023 11:22am
- H. Upmann
  
  “…Luxon momentarily crossed over”.
  Sorry, but no; Luxon is fully, as in 100%, onboard with climate change hysteria. He and Shaw are like twins on this.
  
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  February 22, 2023 11:44am
  - peterwn
    
    Climate change acceptance was National Party policy even before Chris Luxon stood for Parliament. What policy should National adopt? The only answer is a policy that will produce the most votes for National. Ideology does not get a look in.
    
    5 2
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    February 22, 2023 12:26pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      For a start he could put a stake in the ground that the science is not settled and have a neutral stance. However, he is fully in agreement with taking literally trillions of dollars out of the world’s economies and the climate will change.
      
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      February 22, 2023 12:53pm
      - peterwn
        
        Unfortunately even that eminently sensible stance is a potential net vote loser.
        
        2 0
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        February 22, 2023 6:44pm
    - Matt Long
      
      And I thought we didn’t like populists…
      What if National saw benefits in shafting various sectors of society to get votes?
      Oh, they already did it? 🤔
      
      7 0
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      February 22, 2023 1:08pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Ideology does not get a look in.
      
      Funny, but it does with your opponents. In fact they glorify it and just re-arrange any problem or crisis to fit with it, which is easy because the overwhelming ideology, in different hues, is ever greater State control.
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:18pm
I remember when

After Cyclone Bola it was agreed that action, to prevent such damage in the future, had to be taken.
One agreed solution was the planting of forestry in the worst affected areas.
The question was what type of forestry did they think best.
For a number of years larger hill country farms in Gisborne and the East Coast had been becoming uneconomic and forestry was planted to replaced sheep and cattle.
It was intended that, among other benefits, it would be a source of employment for those out of work in the region.
Also, a growing demand for alternative income meant that many nurseries were a source of pine seedlings, so they were more available than many natives.
Add to this the fact that pine trees outgrew natives so were likely to result in a earlier solution.
There has been a lot of criticism of the forestry companies, with carelessness and laziness blamed for the amount of slash.
Without in any way justifying what has happened, my understanding is that there systems were based on reasonable assumptions.
The leaving a pruning ‘slash’ could be accepted as a means of improving fertility by ‘natural’ decay.
Secondly, when an area is harvested, the area becomes likely to allow unimpeded runoff and erosion if heavy rainfall occurs.
To reduce the effect of harvest the available smaller ‘slash’ is spread over the harvested area.
It prevents direct contact with the ground, reducing impact, slowing access by the rain and reducing runoff.
During harvest it is possible for a landing area, where harvested logs are stockpiled, to be affected by severe rainfall.
The income of around 25% of the people of Gisborne is, at present, dependent on forestry.
Some of the decisions clearly need a serious rethink, some forestry may have been criminal, but, like Cave Creek and Pike River, it is the lack of PROPER OVERSIGHT that leads to disasters.
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February 22, 2023 11:31am
I remember when

About 60% of NZ land area is classified as hill or mountainous terrain.
Extensive pastoralism covers 44%, while intensive pastoralism covers 7% of our total land area.
NZ is vulnerable to regular high intensity rainstorms, sometimes localised and others widespread.
Rapid deforestation and transformation to farming has made fragile landscape prone to and at risk of landslide erosion.
Sediment studies by Trustrum (1999) and Page and Trustrum (1997) show a ten-fold or 1000% increase in sediment production on a representative North Island East Coast area, with the conversion of indigenous scrub, fernland and forest to grassland.
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February 22, 2023 11:52am
Maggie Pie

I mean I hate rugby anyway….but did you hear the AB coach Ian Fosters whingeing and crying about “that he’s not going to be reappointed after the next world cup”?

What a LOSER!!
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February 22, 2023 11:53am
sirknz

Check your census pamphlet but it looks like the orange person on the ‘how many forms do I need to complete’ section is having an affair with the purple person…
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February 22, 2023 12:02pm
Ghost

Interesting, this school turned around their low attendance by providing free food, stationary, uniforms and rides to school. Why? Are kids too lazy to walk. Primary school was a 20 minute walk with friends. High school was an hour walk or 30 minute bike ride with friends.

A Christchurch principal who turned his school’s abysmal attendance rates around says the Government’s new fund to help tackle the country’s dire truancy rate should be given directly to schools.

On Tuesday, the Government announced a $74 million education package to tackle record-low school attendance rates.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/principal-who-doubled-attendance-rate-says-government-s-new-multi-million-fund-to-tackle-truancy-should-go-directly-to-schools.html
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February 22, 2023 12:24pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Kudos to Kidscan, New World, school staff and the anonymous donor that allows this to happen.
  
  If the government would allow charitable donations to be tax deductible the amount of donations would increase far more than the loss of tax income to the government. A no-brainer in my opinion.
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:43pm
  - Ghost
    
    https://www.ird.govt.nz/income-tax/income-tax-for-individuals/individual-tax-credits/tax-credits-for-donations
    
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    February 22, 2023 12:52pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Thanks for that information. But only available to individuals, not companies, etc.
      
      1 0
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      February 22, 2023 12:58pm
      - Ghost
        
        https://www.business.govt.nz/tax-and-accounting/reducing-your-tax/how-to-reduce-your-tax-bill/
        
        1 0
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        February 22, 2023 1:01pm
  - kowtow
    
    And the parents…….?
    
    Where do they stand in this , if they even can……
    
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    February 22, 2023 1:52pm
Yvette

National MP Maureen Pugh repeatedly refuses to say she believes in man-made climate change – Newshub

Other National colleagues Newshub spoke to were all adamant man-made climate change is real. National’s deputy leader Nicola Willis and MP Chris Bishop said they would be raising the issue with Pugh.

1– Willis {headings, mine}
“I disagree with [Pugh],” said Willis. “I will have a conversation with her. The science is very clear that climate change is happening, that man-made emissions have contributed to it and this is an issue that we need to rise to.”

2 – Bishop
“Yes, obviously, man has an impact on the climate,” said Bishop. “There is no doubt about it. We have been filling the atmosphere with fossil fuels for generations now. Of course, it has an impact.”

3 – Mitchell
“Without a doubt, we can see the weather we have been having to deal with for the last couple of weeks means the climate is changing. I am not going to comment on what anyone else said,” said Mark Mitchell.

4 – Collins
“Oh yes,” said Judith Collins. “It is up to [Pugh to] make her own decisions.”

“I think it is obviously contributing to significant change in our climate. No doubt,” said Gerry Brownlee. “I am not aware [Pugh] has made that statement.”

5 – Stanford
“Of course it is. You can see the effects of it,” said Erica Stanford.

8 – Goldsmith
“Climate change is a huge challenge for all New Zealanders and all around the world. Yes, [human activity] is an element,” said Paul Goldsmith.

7 – Kuriger
“I believe that there is an effect that happens. Yes. The question is always around the degree that we can do and we can’t. But definitely, we are having an effect on the climate,” said Barbara Kuriger.

But earlier in the same article Maureen Pugh has already said –

“Of course I believe in climate change, I have seen the impact and the evidence of years and years of mining that shows you where the glacial moraines were over time. I have seen them over my own eyes. Climate change is real.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/02/national-mp-maureen-pugh-repeatedly-refuses-to-say-she-believes-in-man-made-climate-change.html?ref=ves-vid1

So, why the bloody attempted over-kill
Is fornicating Newshub media aware of some media convolution that we have so far missed

Or 2, is Newshub trying for media award: MEDIA ASSASSINATION OF THE YEAR – The Cherry-Picked Reporting That Changed The Election

Or 3, is Newshub trying to transition covid assistance $55 million funding to similar funding for flood survival and stomping on climate deniers and opposition politicians?

Why have I struggled to make several comments on the Phew matter
Because, like slash, the shit keeps coming
Classic QED – time to give up
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February 22, 2023 12:30pm
- Taieri
  
  We have been filling the atmosphere with fossil fuels for generations now
  ————————-
  
  Indeed. The atmosphere is full of fossil fuels. A very bright spark this Bishop character…
  
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  February 22, 2023 12:54pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    Roughly 200 billion tons of extra CO2. We are in the middle of an interesting experiment about whether that changes the climate. A good proportion of the CO2 goes into the ocean where it will eventually lower the pH enough to bugger up the ability of plankton (bottom of the food chain) tto form shells.
    
    One could look forward rather than back. Personally I belive that climate change is coming – it’s just physics. Whether or not it is man-made there’s not a lot we can do to reverse things. Mitigation seems to be the obvious answer, but when you look at what Gabrielle did, where do you start …. eg I guess a higher stopbank on the Tutaekuri might have saved the substation, but it had been there unflooded for just under 100 years ….
    
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    February 22, 2023 1:29pm
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Gabrielle is an example of what Mother Nature can inflict on us _without_ human influence.
      
      13 2
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      February 22, 2023 1:52pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘200 Billion tonnes’
      Oooooh, sounds scary.
      Total CO2 is 421 x 7.82 Gigatonnes
      
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      February 22, 2023 2:34pm
    - Taieri
      
      A good proportion of the CO2 goes into the ocean where it will eventually lower the pH
      —————-
      
      No it won’t. If the oceans are boiling as some whizzkids are telling us, they will release CO2 not absorb it. Ask any boiler attendant to explain how dissolved oxygen is eliminated from the boiler water.
      As for so called acidity, we are a very long way from “acidic oceans”. The last time I checked (this morning) the Pacific Ocean water was decidedly alkaline. And the pH scale is decidedly logarithmic.
      
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      February 22, 2023 3:10pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        they will release CO2 not absorb it.
        
        Only if they are saturated .. and they are nowhere near that.
        
        we are a very long way from “acidic oceans”
        
        True, but we can expect more CO2 to be dissolved as the atmospheric % increases. Good to hear the pH at your place is stable this week …
        
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        December 22, 2022 6:03pm
- michael_s2
  
  Marc Daalder has published on Twitter a transcript of the interview with Pugh by Amelia Wade and him.
  
  Pugh’s comments are perfectly reasonable, but when you get Daalder putting his spin on it, and the Jenna Lynch interpreting the tape of the interview to suit her bias it is blown up into a major diversion from Labour retaining 5 waters and the airport underground tram.
  
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  February 22, 2023 1:55pm
- stiff cheese
  
  A Day in the Life of Jenna Lynch:
  
  1) Stalk the halls of Parliament, looking for a Climate non-Alarmist — “Ah, there’s one !” — get the 4 seconds of wrong-speak on camera.
  
  2) Run around, ambushing other National MPs. Demand condemnation of the ‘climate denier’ in their party — get Luxon to join in too.
  
  3) Dig up years-old video of The Heretic being called hopeless by a previous leader… and BINGO, there’s your LEADING story on TV3’s evening news.
  
  In her schooldays, I wonder how Jenna rated as a telltale?
  
  Expect more of this style of ‘reporting’ as Election Day approaches.
  
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  February 22, 2023 2:13pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I bet she would say in her earlier days she was furiously bullied by nasty white supremacists
    
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    February 22, 2023 3:08pm
Beach Haven expat

Wonderful insight into the financial illiteracy of Simon Wilson on HDPA yesterday. She asked him if taxes should rise or the govt borrow more to fix up the cyclone and flood damage. I was expecting him to proclaim we would all have to pay more in these troubling times but no, quick as a flash and without equivocation he said the govt should borrow more. It was like he just thought it is free money. It clearly didn’t occur that it will have to be paid back, with interest, by, errr, the taxpayer with the interest on top. No wonder he thought Efeso’s drunken sailor policies were so right. For a supposedly smart man he’s not very bright.
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February 22, 2023 12:39pm
- Yvette
  
  That’s right, Taieri, and these cherry-picking’ media want everyone to believe Bishop is a brighter spark than Maureen Pugh, and Luxon should be brighter still telling Bishop what to think, but that Luxon isn’t actually that bright a spark after all, I think
  
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  February 22, 2023 1:09pm
  - Mike
    
    Maureen Pugh? Isn’t she the one Simon Bridges described as “f**k’n useless”?
    
    4 6
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    February 22, 2023 2:59pm
  - Taieri
    
    Bishop is a brighter spark
    ——————
    
    He should be careful that all that brightness doesn’t ignite the fossil fuels that we have been pumping for generations into the atmosphere.
    Wonder where those idiots get their ideas from?
    
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    February 22, 2023 3:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It’s amazing that lefties do not see the connection between Government Money and Net Taxpayer money.
  The Government does not have money. Never have and never will.
  Wake up stupid people.
  
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  February 22, 2023 1:17pm
Maggie Pie

Just heard Robbo annonce the Budget will be …MAY 18.

Guess we shouldn’t hold our breath for a reduction in the 39% tax-rate.
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February 22, 2023 12:46pm
- Mike
  
  Wouldn’t you prefer a lower GST and higher income tax?
  
  5 7
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  February 22, 2023 2:56pm
  - cmm
    
    How about option C?
    Reduce wasteful spending!
    
    11 0
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    February 22, 2023 3:11pm
    - Taieri
      
      Option C doesn’t exist.
      
      5 1
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      February 22, 2023 3:14pm
    - Mike
      
      Sure.
      
      2 2
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      February 22, 2023 6:14pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  [Mod – calm your language down]
  
  2 2
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  February 22, 2023 3:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi is down. DOS attack? Nah.
Trojan is my guess. Instigated by those who want to silence Julian Batchelor.
The road tour will go ahead regardless, so pulling down a server will mean cleaning it. Backup is in a cloud.
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February 22, 2023 1:24pm
- Mike
  
  Who is Julian Batchelor and why would anyone want to silence him?
  
  5 11
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  February 22, 2023 2:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Mike! You know dam well who Julian Batchelor is.
    Stop being [Mod – deleted]
    
    6 5
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    February 22, 2023 3:28pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Well Mod, he is.
      
      5 4
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      February 22, 2023 4:33pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        OK. ‘He is just a naughty boy’
        
        5 2
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        February 22, 2023 4:45pm
kowtow

50 point rise in OCR .

Expected now to peak , not mid year , but in Dec at 5.5 %
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February 22, 2023 2:26pm
- MCōs
  
  From memory it was higher under Don Brash
  
  2 3
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  February 22, 2023 2:45pm
  - Mike
    
    That’s a long time ago. Thought he had been scrubbed from national (and ACT) party history. Is he still alive? Last heard him whining to Kim Hill about too much Māori stuff making it hard for him to listen to the radio and remain calm.
    
    2 16
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    February 22, 2023 2:54pm
    - Yabster
      
      lol you listen to Kim Hill- of course you do….
      
      10 1
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      February 22, 2023 3:28pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    What was the difference between the OCR and Inflation Rate then?
    If it was higher under Brash, I am sure you would know without the Google Machine,
    
    2 3
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    February 22, 2023 3:31pm
Chris Nisbet

Hmm, I see that Robertson is just about coming out and telling us that it would be irresponsible not to increase taxes.
I guess it won’t be long before we hear the tired old line about making the rich pay their fair share.
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February 22, 2023 2:59pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Let him explain that to Sheeple, he will just take the job tax money and call it a flood tax
  
  7 1
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  February 22, 2023 3:13pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    No more new Taxes? Yep. How many times has that promise been broken?
    
    9 1
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    February 22, 2023 3:38pm
Taieri

I see that Robertson is just about coming out and telling us that it would be irresponsible not to increase taxes.
—————–

He is correct. Ideally, all income should be taxed at 100%. GST would then not be required and all goods would be distributed in accordance with a predetermined formula.
Not that there would be any goods to distribute…
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February 22, 2023 3:18pm
Maggie Pie

Had a few spare moments so thort I’d watch a bit of Question-Time.

What really caught my attention….was the number of female Labor MP’s who have such horrible lank hair 🙁

Just saying
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February 22, 2023 3:25pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  That, is lank hair shaming!
  
  8 1
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  February 22, 2023 3:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Commented on that the other day.
  Not mentioning a name, but dragged through a gorse bush backwards was fitting.
  
  5 3
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  February 22, 2023 3:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Commented on that the other day.
  Not mentioning a name, but dragged through a gorse bush backwards was fitting.
  
  4 3
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  February 22, 2023 3:46pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    You already said that.
    
    6 1
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    February 22, 2023 4:13pm
    - Ghost
      
      Started drinking early today😜
      
      8 0
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      February 22, 2023 4:17pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes, but not early. What is early? 5am? When the ships come in and tied up; there was this bar named The Gleesons?
        
        4 0
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        February 22, 2023 7:00pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I think you’ll find there are network problems. A post of mine was posted twice and the bold text is not what was intended. I am also having trouble linking to someone else’s posts.
      Vodafone (my ISP) today on occasions, flags network unavailable when attempting to access KB.
      
      6 2
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      February 22, 2023 4:21pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        I believe you’re right Nicky.
        Even I’ve noticed a lack of upticks on my posts today as well 🙁
        
        6 4
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        February 22, 2023 4:37pm
      - MCōs
        
        When I don’t get any upticks I take it nobody liked the comment, which doesn’t bother me one whit.
        
        4 3
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        February 22, 2023 5:34pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Pretty sure I’m the only one here that upticks you Cossie.
        
        What I never ever do is downtick anybody…. because I’m aware of the detrimental psychological effects it can have on people.
        
        6 1
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        February 22, 2023 6:02pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Had a warning page today telling me ‘Kiwiblog is not secure’
        Have to add some numbers and login again. Then you are on the profile page – or something.
        
        4 0
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        February 22, 2023 7:04pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Laptop was funny, so changed to Desktop.
      S yeah, I may have repeated myself repeated myself repeated myself repeated myself
      
      4 1
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      February 22, 2023 4:36pm
- Nickc2
  
  I think you’ll find that that’s not all that’s lank!
  
  4 3
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  February 22, 2023 4:06pm
- Widogast Corwin
  
  “thort”
  
  Is this some new language?
  
  3 1
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  February 22, 2023 7:52pm
  - Mike
    
    How one speaks in Otahuhu, apparently.
    
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    February 22, 2023 8:03pm
Maggie Pie

My partner txt to see if I’d like to go out for a Thai.

Had to remind him it’s ‘Ash-Wednesday’!
Suggested he just bring home a couple of Red Duck Curry takeaways instead.
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February 22, 2023 4:06pm
- Mike
  
  What are you giving up for Lent?
  
  4 3
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  February 22, 2023 5:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Why would Maggie Pie lend you anything?
    Boom! Tissssh’ Aaahhh!
    
    3 1
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    February 22, 2023 7:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Well, with that chat about Luxon (yes I am on your case Christopher) telling Maureen Pugh what to say, there is much more to “Free Speech” than we may not realise.
Big time. Hillary enters the scene!
Would you buy a used car from this Woman? Well you have to buy that car, or there will be a problem.
https://rightwingnewshour.com/dark-clinton-money-linked-to-rebellion-2/
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February 22, 2023 4:43pm
Swifty

Our betters, our learned academics, call for a national food strategy. They claim we’re in a food crisis and of course have a great bunch of interventions which will solve it, they say:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/131286393/we-produce-enough-food-for-40-million-so-why-our-supermarket-shelves-bare

I say, if we wish to wreck a system that has delivered untold food quantity, quality and delivered it relatively inexpensively – then let’s get the government more involved.

The free enterprise system delivers us nutritious, safe, plentiful food at levels that our forebears just wouldn’t believe.

If some few families can’t afford food nutritious food in NZ currently then let’s look at their individual circumstances – see what we can do to get them into work or higher paying work, or to learn to budget better or perhaps not tax them quite so much so that they can keep more of their pay in their pockets.

Academics saying things like “ “[There] needs to be a whole system response driven by the principle of feeding New Zealand people first and well,” she said.” fills me with dread. It’s the first step to nationalised supermarkets or legislation forcing food producers to lose money on local markets.

No, the government and our lofty academics should stay the hell out of it. Let us instead lower regulatory and compliance burdens, free up barriers to market entry, lower taxation and let our food producers thrive in meeting our communities needs. They will succeed as they have now for a good couple of centuries and counting.

You want to bugger it up? Let our academics, government and other parties with no skin in the game, nor expertise I would say, get involved and get to shape things they know nothing about – and when their interventions have ‘unintended consequences’ they will just walk away unscathed, deny any responsibility and head off on their next lofty hare-brained scheme.

If they really wanted to make a difference, they should resign their taxpayer-funded academic roles and go to work on our farms and food factories. God knows they need the help right now.
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February 22, 2023 4:47pm
- kowtow
  
  The idea that NZers are not being fed is patently ridiculous.
  
  This place is the opposite to the photos of those emaciated children from Ethiopia , Somalia etc
  
  6 1
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  February 22, 2023 6:40pm
- Jack5
  
  A food strategy: that’s what Stalin and Mao had.
  
  In the Soviet Union, Stalin’s strategy led to mass starvation in what is now Russia, Kazahkastan, and, worst of all, Ukraine.
  
  In China, Mao’s strategy led to 30 million to 45 million deaths from starvation.
  
  A free market is the most efficient way of distributing food and meeting demand.
  
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  February 22, 2023 8:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Having followed bits of Ukraine/Russia; and knowing the War may noy have stared if Trump was POTUS, I find this: Top Brass stopped Putin.
https://thegoptimes.com/he-has-already-detonated-nuclear-weapons-3/
I am wondering if Putin has a mental condition?
US does not want War, Russia does not want War, the World does not want nuclear War.
What is needed is drop all of that UN shit, Nato shit, whatever other shit, and negotiate between the Leaders and a Moderator who knows about Negotiate shit.
Who??
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February 22, 2023 4:58pm
- Mike
  
  Why do you hate democracies cooperating to defend against dictators?
  
  0 3
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  February 22, 2023 6:19pm
- Ignoranus
  
  You sound like just the person.
  
  2 0
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  February 22, 2023 6:34pm
Maggie Pie

Things that make you go Hmmm….

Does anyone honestly believe, that all those Bank Economists and CEO’s they interview prior to the announcement of the OCR, that they aren’t already well aware of what it will be?
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February 22, 2023 5:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Roberson does. he has no clue.
  
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  February 22, 2023 6:49pm
Maggie Pie

I see milkey’s back on my case with his usual shit-talking about my religion 🙁

Don’t know if he’s religious himself or not, but he might like to read a verse from Leviticus 15:16-18 which I’m sure he’ll find relevant.
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February 22, 2023 5:40pm
- Mike
  
  It’s not my fault that you can’t follow your own cult’s rules.
  
  2 6
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  February 22, 2023 6:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    See what I mean Maggie Pie?
    Comment I made, the Mods deleted.
    Mike is senior troll on here.
    
    4 3
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    February 22, 2023 6:52pm
    - graham
      
      Steve – the difference between you and Mike is, nobody really takes Mike seriously. 🙂
      
      5 0
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      February 22, 2023 8:07pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mike is a clever and knowledgible person.
        Pity he lets his nasty trolling overide that.
        I do on occasion uptick him.
        
        0 2
        Report
        February 23, 2023 9:29am
- Widogast Corwin
  
  Your religion deserves derision.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4
  
  “The Catholic Church is a Force for Good in the World – Full Version”
  
  2 0
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  February 22, 2023 7:45pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL!! Steven Fry….he’s an old poof 😀
    
    1 2
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    February 22, 2023 7:59pm
- Widogast Corwin
  
  https://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great-Religion-Everything/dp/0446697966
  
  “God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything”
  
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  February 22, 2023 7:47pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    WHATEVER! I have boobs.
    
    1 2
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    February 22, 2023 8:00pm
  - graham
    
    Uh-huh. A book where someone gives us his opinion. Gee, never seen that before.
    
    Forgive me for not treating it as an authoritative treatise which definitively “makes the ultimate case against religion”.
    
    2 0
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    February 22, 2023 8:12pm
- Scooter
  
  Sorry meant to uptick, but I prematurely clicked the wrong one
  
  0 0
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  February 23, 2023 6:10am

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