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July 3, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 03 July 2023

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General Debate

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Warren

Great double page political add from the Taxpayers Union in Waikato times this morning rightfully showing off the socialist Labour Party and two of their proud Socialist MP’s David Parker and Kieran McNulty.
It might cost a dollar or two but it now convinced me to give a hundred dollars to there cause.
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July 3, 2023 8:01am
Bridgenag

YouTube censors Australian politician’s maiden speech to parliament, cites ‘medical misinformation’
‘Medical misinformation’ is defined as anything that contradicts the official position

“He said that the NSW government had enacted an “authoritarian Covid police state.”
He said that the NSW government had given in to “vaccine extremism,” telling the public, ‘we won’t let you out until you take multiple injections of not only a rushed vaccine but of an entirely new class of vaccine’.
He said that, “NSW Health published weekly data showing, the fewer vaccines you had, the less likely you went to hospital or ICU. The fatality rate was similar for the vaxxed and the unvaxxed.””

https://open.substack.com/pub/rebekahbarnett/p/youtube-censors-australian-politicians?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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July 3, 2023 8:01am
- Simon
  
  Yep when the shut down doctors in NZ over concerns about the unsafe garbage jaxx the National party were silent. National are part of the problem. National wiped its arse on the Bill of Rights,
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:21am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    It might have been different if Bridges was not rolled by Muller.
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:44am
    - pdm
      
      Chuck – I think it would have been different. Bridges had political nous – Muller had none and probably should be in the Green Party anyway.
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:07am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “Muller had none and probably should be in the Green Party anyway.”
        
        And Luxon gave Muller the role of Shadow Climate Change Minister and told his MPs they should support Shaw. Luxun also should be in the Green Party.
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:06am
    - leoj
      
      Good observation.
      
      The Nats have not been the same since. The left-wing of the party have taken over.
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:18am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Chuck Bird – a pattern emerges, dare oppose the ‘official’ narrative and you will be smeared, persecuted and hounded out of whatever position you have that is opposing the message.
      
      The more they attack someone, the more you can bet the house that the person is telling truth.
      It means they are right over the target.
      
      As Ardern told us, ‘we will be your single source of truth’.
      Can’t say we weren’t warned that they were going to implement full on fascism.
      
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      July 3, 2023 11:31am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    What has that got to do with NSW, YouTube, and censorship?
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:11am
    - Master Mariner
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGiczfkqt4E&t=541s
      
      Try this one Lodden.
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:48am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Thanks Cap’n but I was referring to Simon’s non-sequitur rant about National. He’s a bit like Pavlov’s dog when it comes to National – which wasn’t anything to do with the story, or censorship, or free speech.
        
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        July 3, 2023 3:22pm
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/132466793/wellington-mayor-tory-whanau-accused-of-drunken-public-behaviour

Dont you know who I am !! ??? 🙂

pissed up…abusive…and did a runner!!
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July 3, 2023 8:02am
- Swifty
  
  Let’s see the lefties pile on hysterically like they did with Aaron Gilmore.
  
  Waiting……
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:16am
  - Bloody Dago
    
    This is what lefties usually do:
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/russian-bank-executive-28-dies-30353446
    Aaron was very lucky to live in Godszone, surprised Tory didn’t get the same treatment that John Key applied to the problem children…..ohhhh I was hoping at least getting the boot FFS
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:43am
- imalwaysright
  
  What an embarrassment .
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:18am
  - Nickc2
    
    Not really. When you’ve got the colour, clout, entitlement, and a compliant media, you’re on a winner no matter how you behave eh?
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:36am
  - Paulus
    
    It is no longer an embaeeasement to those like her a Woman and to top and getting pissed is a normal practice.
    We will see much more of embarrasements with the massively increasing woman at the top now.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:23am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yep, IMO, Materia Turei started the decline.
      
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      July 3, 2023 3:34pm
  - cmm
    
    You’d think she’d be ashamed. There’s so much CO2 produced by the alcohol industry!
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:23am
- Simon
  
  lol – lets get Wellington moving 7.5 billion will pissed away to get people out of cars. That will be 15 billion and will not work. 15 billion will be spent with someone.
  
  Climate change madness when the society is already tapped out. Govt.borg.nz is going to heap this shit upon the general population. Not going to end well.
  
  For slow witted National types. Govt.hive.nz is already out of control. Man made climate change is madness. You cant keep heaping shit upon society and not expect massive problems.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:27am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    So, perhaps the Mayor is making the golden mile Car Free so she isn’t bowled by a driver while stumbling home….
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:00am
    - Drone
      
      Plus 10 @slightlyrighty..
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:20am
- igm
  
  Seems to be a racial problem these days . . . suppose not driving through the front door in a stolen car makes it Ok!
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:35am
- dubya
  
  Let’s start calling her Karen Gilmore.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:50am
- AndyW
  
  Aye, she claims she wasn’t drunk but forgot to pay the bill – what’s that a clear sign of?
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:54am
  - igm
    
    Theft
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:49am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Ah well, Tory assures everyone she was elected on an agenda for change….
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:01am
- Warren Murray
  
  Whanau is the left’s female brown Blumsky.
  
  A proud ‘party girl’, who doesn’t yet realise she has a drinking problem.
  
  Having a drunk for a mayor – this won’t end well for Wellington. Reminds me of Mark Ford of Toronto
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:24am
- jon
  
  Not paying, its theft, surely!
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:46am
  - kowtow
    
    Her “favourite” restaurant ?
    If there was a good relationship between the staff and client , this story would never have seen the light of day.
    
    Another factor is ; council is in charge of licensing and health inpsections ; therefor in that context
    waving empty bottles in front of staff and demanding ‘attention’ , given the “power imbalance of the relationship” is cough cough open to all sorts of interpretations.
    
    I can’t wait for the indepth analysis of these interactions from our senior political reporters , commentators , editors etc who doubt will be very anxious to hold power to account…………zzzzzzzz
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:30am
  - mtamati
    
    Jon…..
    If she entered the establishment with the intent to pay for finished meal, wine and service, then not theft….only a civil debt incurred when she left without paying.
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:48am
Bridgenag

Sunday Strip: Ready (or not)? From the USAl
And now for something completely different…[Monty Python – Dead Parrot Sketch & The Lumberjack Song video at the end]

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/sunday-strip-ready-or-not?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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July 3, 2023 8:03am
Tony Stuart

Remember how the media hounded National MP Aaron Gilmore out of Parliament for his infamous drunken “Do you know who I am”? Let’s see if they doorstep Tory Whanau in the same manner:

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350028539/mayor-tory-whanau-denies-waiter-s-claim-she-was-drunk-and-asked-do-you-know-who-i-am-

Wellington voters; your chickens have come home to roost…
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July 3, 2023 8:05am
- greybeard
  
  She bears a striking resemblance to Carmen.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/132466793/wellington-mayor-tory-whanau-accused-of-drunken-public-behaviour
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:09am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wonder if Tory’s campaign was the brainchild of Sir Bob as well?
    
    😀 😀 😀
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:34am
  - greybeard
    
    Well well !
    Stuff have not only changed the photo but the entire article for this link !
    
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    July 3, 2023 3:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Always reminds me of this:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:10am
- Benedict Yu
  
  A couple of things stand out.
  
  Firstly, leaving a restaurant without paying is rarely a “mistake”.
  
  Secondly the staff stopped serving alcohol because she was intoxicated. For that to occur a customer needs to be visibly and obviously drunk. If you become a public figure (Mayor, MP) you don’t get to be blind drunk any longer, especially in public.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Quite so BY. Many of us have made “honest mistakes” when we have been shit-faced, but not many of us have been Mayor of Wellington at the time.
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:23am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      There is another pragmatic reason a mayor of a major city cannot get blind drunk. She may be needed 24 hours a day. What if there had been a severe earthquake in Wellington that night?
      
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      July 3, 2023 8:28am
      - igm
        
        It is not the first time, she evidently having a history of getting pissed.
        
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        July 3, 2023 8:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        “Saturday night should I be in the office? Well no, that’s just silly.
        
        https://www.teaomaori.news/im-young-wahine-maori-wellington-mayor-tory-whanau-says-criticism-her-gendered
        
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        July 3, 2023 8:54am
      - Taieri
        
        What if there had been a severe earthquake in Wellington that night?
        ————–
        
        Most likely, the Mayor would have been in the way…
        
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        July 3, 2023 9:04am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Maggy – “I’m young” – chortle!
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:24am
    - Matt Long
      
      We must applaud Ms Whanau for her brave stand against colonialist mores and capitalist pigs.
      It’s refreshing to see strong women of colour challenging the patriarchy, like Whanau and Allen.
      
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      July 3, 2023 8:33am
      - Ehlana
        
        A braver stand would be to refuse to consume the stuff surely?
        
        If we still taught evil Western science in school, we could tell children that the big bad bogeymen have now admitted that alcohol is not good for them.
        
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        July 3, 2023 10:18am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Are any ‘mental health’ issues being claimed?
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:09am
    - Observer of Life
      
      I find it interesting that they say a “friend” phoned the next day to pay. Surely if you were that embarrassed you’d do it yourself and apologise yourself!?
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:00am
      - Ehlana
        
        I think she was dining with a friend at the time. Sounds like the friend was the one who apologised and paid the bill the next day.
        
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        July 3, 2023 12:18pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    @ Benedict
    Except this person is a very special Green elite from another world.
    Normal standards of civilised behaviour do not apply.
    Hope the ratepayers of Wellington are still feeling happy and secure with their trendy choice of Mayor.
    You have got what you voted for.
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:27am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It’s Party time with Tory….
      
      “I’m normally a humble person, but just for one night, I can be extra.”
      
      https://www.ensemblemagazine.co.nz/articles/mayor-tory-whanau-40th-birthday-party
      
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      July 3, 2023 8:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Some people just can’t handle alcohol Benedict. I have known Women who are off their trolley after one glass of wine.
    Maybe Whanau pre loaded before the restaurant?
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:32am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      From the article, “management and staff at the Old Quarter restaurant on Dixon St have confirmed the pair were “tipsy” when they arrived and staff had considered not serving them…”.
      
      Then they ordered a bottle of wine with dinner.
      
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      July 3, 2023 8:44am
      - Gravelroad
        
        Ms Whanau is clearly out of her depth in local body politics – it is mostly tedious and boring for her and her carefully crafted collection of platitudes about “continuing to work for positive outcomes….blah, blah, blah” are sounding lame.
        Suggest she admits she has made a mistake, resigns as mayor and gets a high position on the Green Party list. Then she can say and do what she likes in parliament and no one will notice or care.
        
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        July 3, 2023 8:57am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        I hope to Buddha that wine was organically certified
        
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        July 3, 2023 9:05am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Ben, the woman is just another person of limited intellect (and class) who has gotten into a highly paid position way beyond her abilities because she belongs to the requisite number of oppressed groups. There should be no surprises that she has no idea how to handle herself, the gravitas required for Mayor is way beyond her.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:02am
  - pdm
    
    BY – `tipsy’ when they arrived at the restaurant.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:10am
    - Observer of Life
      
      “Tipsy” read “drunk”…
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:11am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        I think the word she was looking for was “trollied
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:38am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Tipsy as a skunk
      
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      July 3, 2023 7:27pm
  - Drone
    
    @BY you are being racist, and misogynistic surely a girl’s allowed to let her hair down occasionally and the restaurant should be so grateful for all the additional punters they’re going to get when cars are stopped from entering the city that they should be giving plucky councillors free meals every day. //
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:27am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, the Old Quarter had better make sure they comply 100% with Council requirements. I have a feeling the Tory will have a score to settle.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:39am
  - kowtow
    
    Here was me thinking the Greens were all holier than thou over alcohol and all that .
    Dope being more their thing.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:55am
  - Vladislava
    
    I see she is doubling down.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/wellington/132466793/wellington-mayor-a-bit-tipsy-but-denies-she-asked-if-waiter-knew-who-she-is
    
    I have had my fair share of nights on the town. Staff do not deny service to someone who is “a bit tipsy”. Staff are trained in how to identify an intoxicated person. And no surprise..
    
    “- Speech is impaired (slurring, difficulty forming words, loud, repetitive, loss of train of thought, nonsensical, unintelligible)
    
    – Coordination is impaired (spills drinks, trips, weaves, walks into things, unable to stand or sit straight)
    
    – Appearance is affected (bloodshot eyes, eyes glazed, unable to focus, tired, asleep, dishevelled)
    
    – Behaviour is impaired (inappropriate actions or language, aggressive, rude, belligerent, obnoxious).
    
    https://www.restaurantnz.co.nz/2017/02/10/staff-training-for-the-sale-and-supply-of-alcohol/
    
    Nothing about chucking out mayors who are “a bit tipsy”.
    
    This would all go away if she said “I over did it on Friday night. I apologise. It will not happen again while I am mayor”.
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:22am
    - Colville
      
      In my humble experience you will continue to be served as long as you can walk (after a fashion) to the bar and speak…. and I believe speech is optional as I have had bar staff just pour another rum and push it across to me….
      
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      July 3, 2023 11:48am
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      And by doubling down, claiming she didn’t give it the big I am and refusing to apologise as you wisely suggest, she opens up for further witnesses to come forward… which is what has happened.
      To be fair it’s no shagging a youn aide in a council meeting room but it just further cements what her critics think of her: Just dumb
      
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      July 3, 2023 11:58am
  - plc
    
    “The table next to us had an empty thing of water and a bottle of wine that had, I don’t know, must have had like about a glass left. Now, I don’t know if that was her wine or not but anyway, [the waiter] was taking it away.
    
    “She jumped up to grab it and she was looking like she was going to skull the bottle of wine in the street and he was trying to grab it away from her and then I heard her say, ‘do you know who I am?’”
    
    Third witness.
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:50am
- Simon
  
  She is being judged by the content of her character.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:29am
- alex Masterley
  
  At least Gilmore didnt do a runner from the restaurant leaving an unpaid bill.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:55am
- slightlyrighty
  
  From her Wikipedia Page…
  
  Whanau’s stated policy platform was “Fixing our pipes; More warm, dry homes for all; More efficient public transport options; Mental health support, alcohol and harm reduction; Safer streets; Arts and culture revitalisation; Business support; Climate action.”
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:01am
- peterwn
  
  I am surprised The Post even ran the story. She owes her Mayoral victory to The Post who gave her a half page front page ad.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:18am
- Paulus
  
  Wellington voters could not care less of anything she does.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:25am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Old boilers I think you mean Tony
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:31am
- Ghost
  
  I hope they replied, “nope, don’t know who you are nor do I care”.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:33am
  - kowtow
    
    Looks like the reply was a tipoff to te media pardy.
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:33am
  - blue collar
    
    Or …. Call out to the whole restaurant saying , “ we have a lady who doesn’t know who she is !
    Can anybody help ? “
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:23am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Winning.
This Jack Smith dude is making mistakes crossing Trump’s path. The Judges know Trump will be POTUS and are saving their own arses.
https://libertyonenews.com/judge-denies-governments-motion-to-keep-list-of-84-witnesses-sealed-in-classified-docs-case/
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July 3, 2023 8:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mike is awake early.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump needs those 84 witnesses unsealed – and he will get it.
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:35am
    - mawm
      
      Those in the judiciary who have not been bribed to cooperate will find the threats to them, their families and friends very persuasive. It won’t be long before she announces that due to health/family reasons she is recusing herself from the case/retiring. The other alternative is that she’ll be suicided because of long-standing depression being made worse by having contaminated her mind with anything Trump.
      
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      July 3, 2023 1:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nasty place isn’t it? Best go to the person who has the most influence.
        Nobody has 67 personal friends who suicided.
        
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        July 3, 2023 3:17pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, you would have to be seriously unbalanced to believe the Washington machine isn’t out to prevent Trump from seeking a second term. All the usual sensible commenters seem to enter an area that tramples on democratic rights and then they cry ‘but Biden won 81 million votes’.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Anything goes as far as the Dems are concerned. Only one thing can stop Trump now – assassination. They will have thought of it, and how. The swamp has been growing for 6 decades or more, they will defend it at any cost.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:06am
    - leoj
      
      Time for my favourite one-liner:
      
      Democrats are scum.
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:25am
      - mawm
        
        I’d broaden your scope as there are many career Republicans who are too.
        
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        July 3, 2023 1:55pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @mawm.
        Yes there are, and many have not been exposed yet.
        They are trying to hold on to the GOP until Trump has finished his term in 2028. They can’t leave, the Democrats would never let them defect.
        
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        July 3, 2023 3:20pm
slightlyrighty

The latest Green announcement regarding rental housing policies have only re-inforced the fact that they are quite simply ideological fantasists crippled by economic illiteracy.

If you want to see a ‘green’ future, look at how Wellington City has suffered since Celia Wade-Brown was mayor.
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July 3, 2023 8:07am
- Simon
  
  “simply ideological fantasists crippled by economic illiteracy.”
  
  Yep and after six years of National they will be the govt. National will do nothing to protect society from the coming wreckage of their replacement govt.
  
  This is why National are garbage. They refuse to protect society against the left as its too hard and they are all grifting carpet baggers.
  
  NZ has got 6 yrs and then its game over.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:32am
- kowtow
  
  ‘ideological fantasists crippled by economic illiteracy.’
  
  Reds.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:51am
- RoboRob
  
  Chloe was on TV3 this morning. Seymour says ‘its been tried overseas and everywhere it has tried it failed’, she then replaies ‘it has proven that it worked for the tenants who could get accomodation overseas’.
  
  So many people will believe her but what she really is saying is ‘yeah we know that there is much less available accomodation and very few people can get in to it, but thaise that do get cheap prices. Lets ignore the rest who can no longer get accomodation, the government can provide for them’.
  
  Seymour is right that its the JA effect all over again. put a ‘pretty’ face on it and some well spoken words, but behind the scenes its still terrible policy.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:18am
  - Ehlana
    
    key words: “the tenants who could get accommodation”.
    
    Under these rules, who would actually rent to?
    
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    July 3, 2023 12:21pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Exactly. Those few who are lucky enough to get rent controlled apartments do very well out of it.
      
      Everyone else. Not so much.
      
      Glorious success if your mummy and daddy are well connected!
      
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      July 3, 2023 4:17pm
- Dave
  
  Swedish economist Assar Lindbeck once wrote, “In many cases rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city—except for bombing.” In the late 1970s, a poll of American economists found that ninety-eight percent agreed that “a ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available.”
  
  From:
  
  https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2012/06/rent-control-the-most-peaceful-way-to-destroy-a-city/
  
  Worth reading for its wider comments on housing policy.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:22am
  - Vladislava
    
    It is playing out in New York now.
    
    https://www.aier.org/article/the-perpetual-tragedy-of-new-yorks-rent-control/
    
    Chronic housing shortage while landlords sit on 20,000 vacant apartments.
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:31am
- blue collar
  
  I’m Not renting my house due to their unintended consequences.
  Basically it’s a great 1940s house , a kiwi family would love it .
  Doesn’t quite match their draconian rules for renting , and I’m not prepared to rent it to someone who may enforce action on it I can’t afford , whom I also can’t kick out .
  Will wait for the election and see what changes .
  Another ghost house out of the system , like many others .
  Simply not worth the risk
  
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  July 3, 2023 11:29am
TripeWryter

Another hot summer in France. The ritual rioting over the death of a kid in a car that belonged to someone else.
A friend of mine in Dordogneshire, France, wonders when the French and world news media are going to report that the kid had stolen the car, was told to get out, was told to stop or else …
Now the event is exploited, as they always are, into protests about racism, injustice, and everything else except that the young man was not where he was allowed to be.
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July 3, 2023 8:11am
- Yabster
  
  yep- media agenda- first I read of it made out the cop just walked up to the car and shot the teen- thought geeze that doesn’t sound right.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:32am
  - kowtow
    
    Same way the media portrayed Fentayl Floyd’s final interaction with law enforcement.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:51am
- kowtow
  
  And have spread to their overseas dominions .
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:53am
- Ehlana
  
  Still trying to understand how torching cars of people who can’t afford off-street garaging and looting stores that provide goods and employment for your community makes things better.
  
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  July 3, 2023 12:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    Lysette Raymer from prime tv says doing those things is a demand for ‘justice’.
    
    And some people rate her as a reporter.
    
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    July 3, 2023 12:32pm
- mawm
  
  Tripe – there are reports of belt-fed machine guns and heavy (large caliber?) sniper rifles intended for Ukraine being used. This is not an ordinary riot!
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:01pm
In Vino Veritas

Ben Stokes “I wouldn’t want to win a game like that”. Except against New Zealand of course. Lords 2022, Colin de Grandhomme. Of course Bairstow’s run out has been labeled cheating, conversely, de Grandhomme had a “brain fade”. Cricket is littered with morons that have got themselves run out having a daydream. Stokes demeans himself coming out with that crap. And those prats in the Long Room who bailed up Khawaja and Warner should be given the heave-ho from the MCC.
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July 3, 2023 8:13am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The game needs a law change though. Nobody knows what ‘finally rested’ means. If the batsman is out of his crease playing a shot, that’s a stumping. If he’s out of his crease attempting a run, that’s a run out. Otherwise it should be not out.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I disagree.
    
    According to law 20.1.2 of the MCC’s Laws of Cricket, “the ball shall be considered to be dead when it is clear to the bowler’s end umpire that the fielding side and both batters at the wicket have ceased to regard it as in play.”
    
    Clearly, the umpire could see that the Australian fielding side regarded the ball as “in play”. The wicket keeper caught the ball in his gloves and instantly threw down the stumps.
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:58am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Correct Ben, just as there was no issue with de Grandhomme (he overbalanced out of his crease and was looking to see if the ump was going to give him lbw), there should be zero issue with Bairstow. He stupidly walked out of his crease immediately the ball had passed over him. Carey did exactly what Ollie Pope did. And Nigel, Bairstow was stumped. MCC 39.1 Out Stumped and 39.1.1 “he has not attempted a run when his wicket is fairly put down by the wicket-keeper without the intervention of another fielder”.
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:07am
    - pdm
      
      By – then there is the `attempting a run’ interpretation.
      
      I have only seen the Stuff video of it but it was very obvious Bairstow was not `attempting a run’.
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:14am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Does not matter. He was not run out. He was stumped.
        
        https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/the-ashes-2023-1336037/england-vs-australia-2nd-test-1336044/full-scorecard
        
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        July 3, 2023 9:27am
      - CPB
        
        Sorry BY, think I accidently hit report instead of reply. Anyway, technically he was out but it was obvious to everyone that he looked back and marked his crease before walking out thinking ‘over’ had been called. The Aussies shouldn’t have upheld the appeal. They deserve to be booed.
        
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        July 3, 2023 10:59am
      - reubee
        
        The acid test to apply in such circumstances is to consider what would happen if the throw missed the stumps and there was an opportunity for overthrows. In this case, the De Grandhomme case, the Murali case, I think you’ll find that if the throw was wide and there was an opportunity for a run it would have been taken from where the batsman was standing.
        
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        July 3, 2023 1:49pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      It was a brain fart on the part of Jonny Bairstow who went walkabout before ascertaining that Carey considered the ball dead. A simple look back would have kept him in his crease.
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:50am
    - nova
      
      Yes, definitely out according to the laws of the game, but at the same time terrible sportsmanship by Australia. Bairstow was in his crease when the wicketkeeper caught the ball. He was in his crease when Carey threw the ball at the stumps. A fraction later he wandered out to have a chat to Stoke because he thought the ball was dead and the over completed. Definitely careless by Bairstow, but not in the spirit of the game by Carey, who appears to have planned this in advance. Similar in many ways to when the bowlers whips the bails off at the non strikers end if the non striker is backing up. That has always been controversial, unless clear warning has been given to a batter. But in that case the batter is trying to gain an advantage, in this case it was clear cut that Bairstow was not trying to gain anything.
      
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      July 3, 2023 11:16am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Disagree about terrible sportsmanship. Bairstow walked out of his crease. Walking out, overbalancing or whatever, has been done 1000’s of times in cricket, it’s just that the majority of times the stumps are missed by the throw, or the batsman has the wherewithal to jab his bat back into his ground. And the crowd go oooooooohhh! The ball died, Carey caught it on the volley and underarmed it immediately after he caught it. Bairstow was already on his way up the pitch before Carey even caught it. Ball was in play, “sportsmanship” has nothing to do with it. End of story.
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:57am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Sometimes the batsman wants to leave his crease after the ball has passed through to the keeper. But he only wants to do that if he won’t be out should the keeper throw at the stumps. The keeper may want to throw at the stumps, but only if the batsman leaves his crease and the ball is still in play.
      
      So how is the batsman supposed to know whether the ball is in play?
      
      Do you really want the laws to resolve this by expecting the batsman to figure out the umpire’s opinion about the players’ opinion of whether the ball is in play or not? That not only requires mind reading. It also contains a paradox where effectively the ball is in play if the players regard it as in play.
      
      A law change is certainly needed.
      
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      July 3, 2023 12:44pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        “how is the batsman supposed to know whether the ball is in play?” Easy Nigel, stay in your bloody crease until the keeper lobs the ball to someone else, then it’s considered dead, as it has clearly settled in the keepers hands. Bairstow has been around long enough to KNOW the rules. And I’d bet a dollar to a knob of goat shit, that he has tried to throw the stumps down in similar fashion at some point in his career.
        
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        July 3, 2023 3:21pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Could be read as well as ‘I wouldn’t want to win a trophy like that’ – the that being an extra run being added to your score by moronic officials and the trophy being a World Cup, Ben?
  Look forward to you sending the trophy back to NZ you paragon of virtue.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:05am
- Gravelroad
  
  I imagine that the Australians were still righteously fuming about the disallowed catch by Starc.
  Big-headed Australian cricketers don’t like that sort of thing.
  So they would justify a pay-back action.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:05am
  - pdm
    
    gravel – that probably balances up the dodgy one Smith was allowed.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:16am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Stokes had no say in the 2015 ODI Final but go back another 6 years to this example of England “not wanting to win like that”. Grant Elliot and Ryan Sidebottom had an accidental collision on the pitch, where Sidebottom dived in front of Elliot, collided with him and knocked him off his feet.
  
  He was then run out and England’s captain, the coward Paul Collingwood, refused to withdraw the appeal. They were right though, England didn’t “win like that” with the Black Caps winning off an overthrow on the last ball of the match. Seldom has victory tasted sweeter and the Black Caps rightly slammed the dressing room door in Collingwood’s face when he attempted an apology.
  
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/505859/Its-just-not-cricket and the video at: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5xdbj
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:42am
Maggie Pie

Chynah views NZ as the ‘wonky-eye’ of FIVE EYES…

This is because the country has, through the influence of Maori elite, sustained a large portion of its pre-colonization and native identity…..which had made it an English-speaking country with Polynesian characteristics.
This works out well for the PRC, as it sees it as a weak point in American power in the Pacific and notes that FIVE EYES are really just Four 🙁

https://rt.com/news/578947-new-zealand-china-five-eyes/
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July 3, 2023 8:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wonky is being kind. The google machine has some very good definitions, and they all apply. Off center, unstable……
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:23am
- kowtow
  
  There’s been a huge stoush in Canada over CCP interference in their politics .
  
  Here you wouldn’t know that as there’s been what almost amounts to a media blackout on reporting that.
  
  Very queer.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:50am
Lee C

This fresh in:
Dear Readers,

We, the Mainstream Media and their Water Carriers, would like to take this opportunity to offer our sincere apologies for our past behavior during the six-year campaign against Donald Trump. We recognize that we have engaged in a relentless stream of hatred, bile, and misinformation, all while neglecting our duty to focus on the real issues at hand. We should have rightfully directed our attention towards the alleged illegal activities of Hillary Clinton, who was accused of hiding official documents, and Joe Biden, who was accused of colluding with his son Hunter to extort and appropriate millions of dollars in foreign cash.

Looking back, it is evident that we failed in our responsibility to uphold journalistic integrity. Instead of objectively reporting and investigating important matters, we shamefully allowed ourselves to be swept up in a whirlwind of sensationalism and bias. We deeply regret our role in contributing to the polarization and division that has plagued our society.

We understand that our actions have undermined public trust in the media and have perpetuated a climate of confusion and disinformation. For this, we are truly sorry. It is our solemn promise that we will learn from our mistakes and strive to do better in the future.

From this day forward, we pledge to refocus our efforts on unbiased reporting, thorough investigations, and meaningful discourse. We will diligently seek out the truth, regardless of political affiliation, and deliver fair and accurate news to our readers. We will hold those in power accountable, regardless of party lines, and commit to restoring the faith that has been lost in our profession.

We understand that trust is not easily earned, and we fully acknowledge that our actions will speak louder than words. We invite you, our readers, to hold us accountable as we embark on this journey to restore credibility and transparency to our reporting.

In conclusion, we humbly ask for your forgiveness for our past transgressions. We recognize that we have fallen short of the standards we should have upheld, and we vow to rectify this. Let us move forward together, united in our pursuit of truth and responsible journalism.

Sincerely,

The Mainstream Media and their Water Carriers
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July 3, 2023 8:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Who are you trying to kid Lee? 🙂
  Off course it all applies. Is there a NZ version?
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:26am
- Lee C
  
  I love the fact that someone has down-ticked this!
  
  They are us.
  
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  July 3, 2023 11:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Only one? I expected about six.
    Is the VPN thing broken?
    
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    July 3, 2023 3:22pm
RRM

Went to hear Neil deGrasse Tyson speak in Wellington last night.

It was refreshing to hear his take on why, if aliens arrived tomorrow and asked to be taken to his leader, it wouldn’t be the political “leader” of the country that he would take them to. (And if they had arrived 4 years ago, he wouldn’t have taken them to that “leader” either.)

I’m growing tired of the hate, fear and division fuelled political shitfight after almost 20 years on these forums. Even giving the “right” politicians attention and influence, doesn’t seem to make the world a better place. Maybe it’s time to stop rewarding these self-important people with attention and just focus on building the better world we want?
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July 3, 2023 8:19am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  We can deprive them of attention, but unless we deprive them the ability to take our income and regulate our lives, that better world will not be built.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:53am
- kowtow
  
  When the white middle and upper classes spend a fortune on hotels and airfares to take themselves and their ‘climate/environment conscious’ children to concerts by an extraordinarily wealthy American singer then you can be sure building better worlds will never happen.And the agenda will box on regardless.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:01am
  - RRM
    
    He did say he wished politicians were more scientifically literate and willing to listen to the advice of experts in whatever field.
    
    However I noticed that not once in his 2 hr talk did he say “the science is settled” or anything to the effect that there should be top-down compulsion to do some programme of action based on what The Science says we must do.
    
    He seemed to be much more interested in the behaviour and thinking of individuals, in particular our habit of categorizing things into boxes, solely to make them easier for us to think about… whether it’s other people’s gender or the wind speed of a hurricane (a hurricane can grow in power massively between the low end of “Category 3” and the upper end of “Category 3″… but if it increases 1mph more and goes into Category 4, “HURRICANE NEIL IS NOW CATEGORY 4!!!” is what gets breathlessly reported.)
    
    I know I’m pretty bad at doing that, ref: all my comments about “the left” on here in the last 10 years, and no doubt all of my comments sbout “the right” in the years before that.
    
    It was just – wonderfully peaceful to hear someone speak well in public, who didn’t seem to be ideologically pushing some authoritarian agenda.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:33am
    - Observer of Life
      
      I’m pretty certain he believes the science is settled on Covid and how marvellous the jab is. He lost me at that point.
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:20am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        OoL – same here. He was also a big fan of mandates and sacking people who didn’t comply.
        
        “That contract is: In the best scientific evidence available at the time, if you do not get vaccinated, you will put other people in this organization at risk, and that organization does not want to take that risk, so you do not have this job anymore if you decline it.”
        
        https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2023/01/10/neil_degrasse_tyson_defends_vaccines_there_is_a_public_health_contract_that_you_have_signed_implicitly_as_a_citizen.html
        
        For someone who apparently didn’t say “the science is settled”, that’s quite a contradiction.
        
        He might be very smart, but on this subject he’s wrong. This was January this year and I haven’t seen anything showing him retracting his nonsensical comments re vaccines.
        
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        July 3, 2023 12:08pm
- miltonF
  
  I don’t rate Neil personally. He’s not so much a scientist. He’s more of an actor and member of the cult of scientism. Much like Bill Nye, the science guy.
  
  What I mean, is that facts, data, rational argument etc all mean nothing to Neil. His version of science is more akin to religion. He doesn’t believe what he believes because he understands it and it makes sense. He believes what he believes solely because other people believe it. For Neil, it’s all about the consensus. That is not science. It is scientism or religion.
  
  There’s two types of students who can achieve an “A” grade. Students who remember everything they’ve been told, and can regurgitate this info at will. Then there’s students who actually understand the subject and understand why these things are so.
  
  Orthodoxy vs rationality.
  
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  July 3, 2023 7:04pm
- ISeeRed
  
  I find Tyson underwhelming and almost naive based on some of his pronouncements.
  
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  July 3, 2023 7:30pm
Tony Stuart

The Labour Party will be feeling really aggrieved at the Mongrel Mob this morning. They gave Mob life member Harry Tam’s company $2.75 million for a meth rehab programme (which had no accountabilities and targets), and all he’s going to deliver for that is candidate votes. He’ll be advising his Mob colleagues to give their all-important party votes to the Greens.

https://twitter.com/MarkMitchellMP/status/1675306510975647744
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July 3, 2023 8:21am
- Matt Long
  
  Not Te Maori Pati, maybe he’s shopping around for the best deals.
  Did the Greens just say no more prisons?
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:27am
  - kowtow
    
    Doesn’t matter what the Greens say . It was Labour who opened the gates.
    At least that was one promise they kept.
    
    I hope all those white middle class professional females who form alot of their voting base are happy now.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:04am
- Inandout
  
  TS, the Green supporters on Twitter are out in force, they can smell funding.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:58am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  A method lab programme morelike.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:08am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    Meth! – Friggin auto-correct!
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:09am
- pdm
  
  Inv – I thought that $2.75 million went to Charlton Sonny Smith’s mob in Waipawa. To tidy up Mr & Mrs Smith’s (I doubt they are married) garden.
  
  Last time I drove past (early July) it looked in the same untidy state it was before the dosh was paid out.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:20am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Smith was running the programme pdm, but the funding went to Harry Tam’s company, HR2 Research and Consulting Limited. And Ardern was directly involved in the funding decision:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/125721619/pm-one-of-the-ministers-who-approved-275-million-funding-for-mongrel-mobled-rehab-programme
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:11am
- Bobba Fret
  
  They probably needed to give him $3.75m to secure the party votes as well!
  
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  July 3, 2023 11:31am
Matt Long

Sadly another iconic NZ firm closes, we have a roller manufactured by Austin’s.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/132431086/at-the-coalface-last-remaining-oldfashioned-foundry-in-new-zealand-closes
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July 3, 2023 8:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not just a labourer’s job, many specialist jobs.
  Patternmakers. The knowledge of cast iron shrinkage. I remember a special marked rule just for that shrinkage. I worked for an outfit in Hamilton – W. P. Walker.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:34am
- GJM
  
  I have a Cambridge roller with their wheels on it. I rebuilt it a couple of years ago and replaced the broken wheels. They had them in stock and as heavy as. They must have made thousands of manhole covers and roller wheels over the years.
  I suspect rising wage costs and energy costs killed it. I use West coast coal in my forge. $60 per 20kg bag plus $20 each for delivery, including ETS tax. The king of trades is also priced out of existence due to the green morons. No, electric is not an option, and neither is gas for bigger work.
  
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  July 3, 2023 7:10pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie tweets.

If anyone has any doubts why FRANCE is burning, this photo will clear up any confusion…….

https://twitter.com/ERIC_MINOT/status/1675579455526322177
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July 3, 2023 8:26am
- Gravelroad
  
  @MP-
  Because I don’t want to sign up to Twitter, these links you post are not accessible.
  Perhaps you might give a brief outline of what it is about or shows?
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:33am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Did you know gravs that nearly 800-million-Tweets are sent every day?
    And it’s free and easy to join….you’ll find it life changing 😀
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:47am
    - Taieri
      
      you’ll find it life changing
      ————
      
      For the better?
      
      16 0
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      July 3, 2023 9:07am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Absolutely!
        Where else can you connect with 400 million people every day?
        And sounds like Trumpy is coming back any day now as well……
        
        12 5
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        July 3, 2023 9:32am
      - Taieri
        
        Where else can you connect with 400 million people every day?
        ———–
        
        Why would I want to do that when one stupid person is hard enough to handle?
        
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        July 3, 2023 9:57am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        No.
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:32am
    - Gravelroad
      
      The point is that if this is supposed to be an inclusive forum on which guests can comment or contribute, then why make posts which include unavailable (to some) content?
      Whether 800 million tweets per day are sent is irrelevant.
      As is “life changing”.
      
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      July 3, 2023 9:33am
      - Taieri
        
        And in the meantime Elon Musk restricts the number of tweets one can read per day:
        
        “(…)Verified accounts were initially limited to reading 6,000 posts a day, Musk said, adding that unverified accounts will be limited to 600 posts a day with new unverified accounts limited to 300.
        
        The temporary reading limitation was later increased to 10,000 posts per day for verified users, 1,000 posts per day for unverified and 500 posts per day for new unverified users,(…)
        
        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/world/musk-restricts-number-tweets-users-can-read
        
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        July 3, 2023 10:01am
      - Matt Long
        
        Most of Maggie’s posts are dodgey satirical images which don’t work well with explanations, Twitter is available to anyone who signs up and isn’t banned.
        It’s one of those things, sign up or skip over.
        
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        July 3, 2023 10:08am
      - kowtow
        
        matt long
        
        I’ve sometimes thort that the poster maggie pie could be a parody account .
        
        But now I know I’m wrong and I know exactly who it is .
        
        Elon Musk , driving more sign ups .
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:15am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Life changing alright, I’m still ‘permanently suspended’ for tweets from 2 years ago that have since been proven to be truthful. I’ve written an appeal, zero response.
      I wrote again asking them to delete all of the data they have from when I joined. Zero response.
      
      ‘Easy to join’, not so easy to take part in and even harder to leave. Hotel California strikes again!
      
      12 4
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      July 3, 2023 12:13pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I’ve gone to Substack Notes. It’s building writers and content, very enjoyable compared to the twittersphere which can be feral at times.
        
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        July 3, 2023 12:16pm
  - Inandout
    
    Gravel, it is so easy to join Twitter and you get a massive range of topics. There are some rules regarding extreme language but it as close to a ‘town square’ as you could wish for.
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:12am
  - sirknz
    
    They usually are accessible without an account. At the moment, Musk has limited access to prevent data scraping which means that if you don’t have an account, you can’t see anything, and your AI model has lost a massive source of information.
    
    I think it is limited to viewing 300 tweets for a new account, 600-800 for a proved account, and 8000 for a verified (paid) account.
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Auckland Harbour Bridge may be closed. This was mentioned the other day, with a video showing the clipons moving 2 inches or so. This was dune in a protest march. A truck was rocking, but it was because people on the left side were rocking it. It wasn’t in syncro with the gap opening and closing.
Back in the late 70s part of my job was heavy boat haulage. I had to rescue a broken down truck/trailer/boat from near the top of the bridge. Those clipons were moving over 200mm (8 inches) It is made of steel. If it does not bend, it will break.
Waka Coathanger are ridiculous these days.
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July 3, 2023 8:44am
- surfing
  
  Your point is? That the harbour bridge is just fine because it used to move 8 inches when you rescued a boat one time in the 70’s?
  
  I’d listen to real engineers over blustering bravado any day of the week!
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:16am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Of course you have seen this right?
    And not just a boat. A truck, heavy trailer and six ton boat. Back then if you lose air pressure there were no brakes. These days there are spring brakes – air pressure to take the brakes off.
    Real engineers work to a safety factor plus 500% today.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:39am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Like aeroplane wings. First time I got on a long haul flight with a window seat by the wing, I was astonished to see how much it flexed!! A little research confirmed that i should be very, very glad that it does move.
  Same reason why wooden houses on poles do better in earthquakes.
  
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  July 3, 2023 12:19pm
- mawm
  
  Steve – it’s quite common to get a harmonic motion when crowds of people walk across a bridge that’s why the military tell their troops to “break step”.
  
  For those who don’t know about the Tacoma Narrows bridge here’s a video of its harmonic motion and collapse.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XggxeuFDaDU
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, I have seen a few on video. The video of the Auckland Bridge showed slow walking by the protesters.
    When I did that tow away of the truck/trailer and 6 ton boat, that bridge was moving. No brakes going down the other side so rode it out. No steel wire rope, it was a ‘rigid’ tow. Freefall! Brought another truck over with a semi to take the broken truck. I trailered up and did the launch at Westhaven.
    The bridge was moving because of the wind. Driving on it nobody notices. Only standing and you start to think “fuck this!”
    
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    July 3, 2023 3:33pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Add.
      Those were the days. Quick thinking and no bloody cellphones, just an RT unit.
      
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      July 3, 2023 3:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tucker Carlson has the Dems in a spin. Joe and Kamala gone burgers?
Gavin Newsome may be the one. No mention of VP ticket.

https://libertyonenews.com/tucker-carlson-makes-another-bold-prediction-about-the-future-of-a-biden-harris-2024-ticket/
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July 3, 2023 8:49am
Benedict Yu

I watched it on video. It was a legitimate dismissal. Bairstow sleep walked out of his crease when the ball was still in play.

Here is the video clip.

https://youtu.be/CqOS90L4D8E
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July 3, 2023 8:51am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Apologies. That was intended as a reply to the comment from In Vino Veritas up the thread.
  
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  July 3, 2023 8:53am
  - Biscuit
    
    Good news, Benedict: those perfectly-mannered, rules-abiding, non-sledging, down-to-earth Tennis players get to run out for the fist time at Wimbledon tonight!
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:16am
    - pdm
      
      Biscuit – from what I have seen of Wimbledon (on TV) the players walk out – very sedately.
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:28am
      - Biscuit
        
        Mmmm, pdm…
        
        Ten Things To Look Out For At Wimbledon This Year:
        
        Will Cliff Richard appear, yet again?
        
        How about Phillip Schofield?
        
        How many rounds will it take for Andy Murray to move from being ‘a British champion’ to ‘that Scottish loser’?
        
        What shade of blue will the jacket be that little Prince George is trundled out in for his Royal Box appearance?
        
        Be still my beating heart: Wimbledon are allowing female players to, gasp, wear coloured undershorts for the first time. Who says Tennis hasn’t yet moved into the 19th Century, eh?
        
        And what odds on the ‘Just Stop Oil’ mob choosing a colour other than Orange for their play-disrupting protests?
        
        How much will they knock the suckers oops patrons for three strawberries and some v. watery ‘cream’ this year?
        
        Who will be 2023’s ‘Nick Kyrgios’ – the loud, brash, eminently-punchable brat – this year?
        
        Will Manchester City – Premiership Champions, FA Cup-winners and Champions Cup-winners – complete the Quadruple by adding the Men’s Singles Championship title to their trophies haul?
        
        Is ‘Ball Girl’ an acceptable term for that trans person a-l-m-o-s-t fitting in his/her/its uniform?
        
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        July 3, 2023 11:23am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Correct Ben. Carey collected the ball on the volley and underarmed immediately. Bairstow was already walking up the pitch. Therefore ball was still in play and Bairstow should be excoriated for being dopey.
  
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  July 3, 2023 12:03pm
  - nova
    
    Carey did indeed throw the ball immediately, but Bairstow was still in his crease when the throw was made. This is evident in the replays. He was in his crease when he ducked the bouncer, when Carey caught it, and didn’t leave until after Carey threw it. Doesn’t change the legality of the dismissal, but it definitely wasn’t a normal stumping.
    
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    July 3, 2023 12:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The World is going madder.

https://libertyonenews.com/cervical-cancer-fund-suggests-calling-vaginas-bonus-holes/
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July 3, 2023 8:54am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  That’s the one owned by “front bums”
  
  https://natlib.govt.nz/records/22315346
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If JT said that, it must be true.
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:41am
Beach Haven expat

Anyone else slightly surprised (even given Q+A’s reputation) that wee Jack Tame had the Education Minister in for an interview and didn’t even mention her being found to be grossly negligent by the privileges committee just days earlier. And he was quizzing her about whether the education system under her was going backwards and not even a hint on it (albeit I listened to it on the podcast rather than watched it, but presumably it wasn’t edited out). Highly relevant one would have thought.
I don’t like to go along with the whole MSM conspiracy but this is just shocking. One suspects it was agreed that to get her on they wouldn’t raise it – at which point any serious political programme and interviewer would have pulled out and done a piece to camera that those conditions were imposed.
Just poor.
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July 3, 2023 8:57am
- surfing
  
  To be fair, she’s been judged by the privileges committee, found mostly guilty, and ordered to make a humiliating apology.
  
  Time to slam her on the atrocious education system … which is currently in a worse state than anytime in the nations history. At least in my lifetime.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:20am
- pdm
  
  BH – everytime I watch or hear Jack Tame I say this to myself.
  
  `Self – this Tame fellow is surely a fully paid up member of the Labour Party – how soon before he appears on their list’.’
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:24am
  - kowtow
    
    You could be onto something there . He’ll have seen any number of former nobody colleagues become MPs at stroke of a pen.And no doubt these media “personalities” may well see themselves in such a posidive light that they think they could be PM !
    
    Afterall if a fish and chip server can……
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:41am
    - pdm
      
      List would be his only go – he would not want to get his carefully manicured hands dirty contesting an electorate seat.
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:30am
  - RoboRob
    
    Labour are too far to the right for Tame!
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:10am
- kowtow
  
  ‘I don’t like to go along with the whole MSM conspiracy’
  
  Why not .
  
  With the France thing we’re seeing the exact same replay by the media pardy per the Fentanyl Floyd incident .
  
  Many self described news orgs have signed up to ascribing climate conspircy theories , literally.
  
  And we’ve whipped to death their role in propagating regime covid conspiracies .
  
  So yip yip , let’s do this .Jessica then Tova.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:36am
- RoboRob
  
  Not interested in watching or listening to anything from Tame. His personal political views are those of a 16yr old school girl, in that he believes in hugs and that the Greens and communism can save the world from those big evil capitalists. His interviewing style is condescending and he is his own biggest fan.
  
  If it was a choice between watching Tame, Paddy Gower or JA, I think I would rather watch JA!
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:06am
- Inandout
  
  BH, it seems Q/A hasn’t a great audience and I can understand why.
  https://www.nzonair.govt.nz/research/audience-ratings-tv/
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:18am
  - RoboRob
    
    Actually those are pretty amazing results. Q/A is only just beaten by 7 Days, which has a massive addvertising and is pretty much prime time. Q/A is on a sunday morning? Tame looks like his job is safe if those ratings are to be believed!
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:14am
  - Miritu
    
    “..seems Q/A hasn’t a great audience..”
    would be even less great if Beach Haven Expat & other commenters didn’t waste their precious time supporting it.
    
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    July 3, 2023 1:56pm
Warren

I wonder when Simon Wilson will post his next hate column on Auckland Mayor Wayne Brown after household rates increased by 7.7% a extra $254. a year that were passed by the Council.
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July 3, 2023 9:20am
Swifty

I hope this initiative succeeds. I hope that over the next few decades that scores of jobs are created, millions and millions of dollars are generated, and that many lives and families are enhanced because of it.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/plant-producing-high-value-kanuka-products-planned-for-ruatoria/EACDH6NEPZB7NN5U3MHFXY5ERY/

But what if it fails? What if in the next year or two the whole thing fizzles, product uses or customers are not found and millions of taxpayer dollars are just wasted and people’s hopes dashed?

Where will be the accountability? Whose political career will come to an end? Who will address the 6pm news, admit they were wrong and foolish, apologise to the country and promise to permanently retire from public life?
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July 3, 2023 9:20am
- Drone
  
  @Swifty you know the answer to that question, the same people that were responsible for handing out PGF cash.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:49am
- greybeard
  
  That sort of enterprise should surely be financed by Treaty Settlement money, not the NZ taxpayer.
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:02am
  - kowtow
    
    And where does “treaty settlement money” come from.
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:11am
Maggie Pie

Quite shocked yesterday to overhear one of the guys sitting in front of me at Mass, whispering to the girl next to him that the Coach of pole-vaulter Lisa McCartney, had been stood down following a ‘formal complaint’ to police 🙁

Not being one to gossip, thort I’d best check it out for myself.
And sure enuff…..

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018896289/athletics-coach-stood-down-following-formal-police-complaint
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July 3, 2023 9:23am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Another week, another reference to ‘Mass’.
  Mags, are you recruiting for the Catholic Church?
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:34am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’ve never forgotten what was inscribed on our locker-room doors at boarding school.
    
    “Those who reject or neglect Christ will burn for eternity in Hell”
    
    Don’t mean to scare ya’ Cap, but……
    
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    July 3, 2023 9:47am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      I’ve managed to survive OK for 75 years even after retiring from Sunday School at 6 years old.
      And wherever I end up after I die I won’t know anything about it.
      
      15 1
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      July 3, 2023 9:53am
    - Inandout
      
      Maggie, as regards the eternal fire in hell story, does the Devil use renewable fuel?
      
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      July 3, 2023 10:21am
      - rockape
        
        Yes, sinners ! Only joking.
        
        6 0
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        July 3, 2023 3:16pm
- lifesgood
  
  I think perhaps you’re making hearing that in Mass up.
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:03am
kiwikidsnz

An interesting Healthcare comparison – UK oriented but incudes NZ which performs poorly eg 30% more preventable deaths than Oz

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2023/06/comparing-nhs-health-care-systems-other-countries-five-charts
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July 3, 2023 9:23am
- KH
  
  Check out the USA preventable deaths on that link. That makes ya think.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:55am
- Vladislava
  
  I see that Australia has 3 x the CT and MRI scanners per million population than New Zealand. That seems quite significant.
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:02am
Maggy Wassilieff

Wonder what our PM will chat about at Today’s Press briefing.
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July 3, 2023 9:27am
Maggy Wassilieff

Is your child/grandchild achieving well at school?
Does he/she have competent teachers?
Is the school any good?
Is the curriculum any good?

Who knows? Who cares?

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/caleb-anderson-one-single-action-guaranteed-to-lift-educational-achievement-in-nz
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July 3, 2023 9:42am
- Blog-aholic
  
  If you don’t test you cannot be positive. Works with Covid and edjakashun.
  
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  July 3, 2023 9:50am
- Burtland
  
  “National testing of students existed in New Zealand right up until the nineteen nineties at which time our educational standards were world-leading. ”
  
  35 years of no National testing – everyone under 50 is a product of this system 🤫
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:11am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and if some folks have their way, our young scholars will never be subjected to standardised tests.
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/03-07-2023/standardised-testing-in-nz-give-me-a-break
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:41am
  - kowtow
    
    A tale ot two tests.
    
    When they didn’t need to they demanded “test test test” for covid and destroyed the country .
    
    When they do need to test in education they refuse and destroy the country.
    
    Hopeless.
    
    Agenda driven destruction across the board.
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:41am
  - Bob
    
    This was the intent of Lange’s ‘Tomorrow’s Schools’ legislation. Nothing will change until the citizens demand, and vote for, an education policy that is not developed, controlled and implemented by the union movement.
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:49am
Nickc2

If you’re thinking of going to Aust and speaking your mind, forget it!
They are in the process of legislating against mis/dis Information but the proposed bill is much more than that.
I think Ardern’s blurb about NZ’s Podium of Truth may have been the forerunner of what was to come for Aust.
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/albanese-governments-draft-misinformation-laws-denounced-as-the-worst-piece-of-legislation-for-free-speech/news-story/2836441799c752294188bb6cacfe0d65
Will we follow Aust?
IMO, probably, unless we change the Govt.
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July 3, 2023 9:58am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

A ‘Kuia’ was there with some Maori protesters. They would respect the Kuia instructions just the same as any Maori Elder, or Maori Warden.
Good comment from the Maori Woman at the end. That shows respect of the truth.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/breakthrough-in-ashburton/
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July 3, 2023 10:01am
JibberJabber

So the only way to get the cops in the UK to do their job is to stop a Pride Parade 🤣.

‘LGBTQ+ supporters of Just Stop Oil have disturbed the Pride in London parade.’

https://twitter.com/ImMeme0/status/1675249624548888577
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July 3, 2023 10:07am
- kowtow
  
  Probably the same ones who were seen “taking a knee” .
  Wokery out woking the woke.
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:36am
surfing

https://theplatform.kiwi/opinions/guest-post-why-i-have-left-the-labour-party

He makes the point how his grandchildren now have differing rights and privileges in society, depending on their blood line.

This system of race based rights and privileges is still increasing in scope too, who knows when the expansion will end?
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July 3, 2023 10:11am
Warren

I find it very suspicious that we are 4 months out from election and this Labour Government is hand out billions without any concern to who will be the next Government in four months.
Health Minister Ayesha Verrall announces ‘historic’ pay equity offer for Te Whata Ora nurses. ” If agreed, the payment will mean nurses receive two pay rises in nine months the first being the interim 14 % pay equity adjustments payed in April this year.
This deal brings the total value of the pay equity settlement to 4 billion”.
While I believe these nurse have been under paid and under valued it is the timing of bringing the dispute to a end and the smell corruption and bribery by this Government.
New Zealand is livng beyond its means , and this Government is using funds that has to be borrowed to pay for their own stupidity just to stay in power and in doing so is to saddle more Generations with unnecessary debt.
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July 3, 2023 10:15am
- Warren
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/07/health-minister-ayesha-verrall-announces-historic-pay-equity-offer-for-te-whatu-ora-nurses.html
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:33am
- NothingLeft
  
  Shades of Cullen’s pre-2008 splurge and the massive structural deficit for foreseeable future (as outlined in the Prefu that year) that Labour created ahead of an election they knew they would lose.
  
  That said, NZ’s falling wages compared to other western countries leaves us no choice but to pay more for professionals with internationally transferrable skills. Our health system will fall apart even further if we don’t pay internationally competitive rates.
  
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  July 3, 2023 10:39am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Senior clinical nurses in Australia earn between
    Au$ 121,000 – $217,000
    https://au.indeed.com/career/senior-clinical-nurse/salaries
    
    That’s a fair whack above the new NZ rate of
    $105,704 and $153,060 plus penal rates.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/493078/nurses-pay-government-announces-pay-equity-offer-for-te-whatu-ora-nurses
    
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    July 3, 2023 10:52am
    - rockape
      
      A lot of the nurses coming back after time in Aus say they won’t be going back. Apparently they get all the shit jobs and are worked like slaves all be it well paid slaves.
      
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      July 3, 2023 1:32pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Would be interested to know more.
        
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        July 4, 2023 2:36am
    - rockape
      
      Remember their is a further pay rise in negotiation ,this is just the pay equity agreement. Mrs Rockape has a smile on her face . I bet Andrew Little doesn’t. The health minister is saying it’s her generosity. The union are saying it’s down to the ERA.
      
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      July 3, 2023 1:34pm
- cmm
  
  I doubt the pay increase will work.
  
  Talk to nurses about their grievances and pay is only one of the problems. They can still get better pay overseas.
  
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  July 3, 2023 11:13am
  - Ghost
    
    I was talking to an ED nurse a month or so ago and asked how many had left, she told me they would stay if they were paid better, so the pay is a big part
    
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    July 3, 2023 11:16am
    - cmm
      
      Perhaps it varies from region to region and time to time. The last conversation I had was about a year ago in Chch.
      
      I suspect that those most motivated to leave have already left and those that are still left are never going to leave, but would be happy for a pay increase.
      
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      July 3, 2023 11:26am
    - rockape
      
      Seems they have been and with decent back pay soon and a further rise to come with their MECA.
      
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      July 3, 2023 1:30pm
- rockape
  
  I rather it’s spent onNurses than on the other garbage they could spend it on. I admit to being married to a nurse on the top scale.
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The sound of snowflakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0K5v87XrmA
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July 3, 2023 10:54am
cmm

Consequences. Yup, that will teach them!

Scrotes at OT felt what it is like defying authority – they get KFC and Maccas!

And when it got cold they were handed blankets.

Please explain to me, using pictures if need be, how these kids are going to be turned from a life of crime if there are only upsides to offending.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/breaking-youths-on-roof-of-oranga-tamariki-facility-come-down-after-more-than-40-hours/W5BHYX3YLBFHHAFS7BQX7UDENI/
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July 3, 2023 11:11am
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTNENT QUESTION

Any truth in the rumor that Mayor Tory had already spent 3 hours on the piss at The Malthouse for lunch, before descending on The-Old-Quarter to continue imbibing?

Asking for a friend
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July 3, 2023 11:13am
- Surely Knott
  
  If there’s a wealth tax coming, no point in saving or investing, just go to the pub and nice dinners and have a good time. Green logic.
  
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  July 3, 2023 11:55am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… Always good asking the question when you already know the answer.
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:44pm
- Ghost
  
  Is your friend the mayor and she’s trying to work out why she can’t remember the whole weekend.
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:52pm
- mogg
  
  She has got a lot to learn, when ‘forgetting to pay the bill’ it’s a much better idea to climb out the toilet window and quietly disappear into the night.
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:33pm
- KKKKatee
  
  I have an a aversion to booze hags. Most unattractive & unproductive in the work place.
  
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  July 3, 2023 3:56pm
Surely Knott

The “eliminate the coronavirus” at all costs party….are now proposing we legalise migrant sex workers?!!

How do they justify their logical inconsistencies . What impact do they think this will have on health and disease spread. The clause was originally included to stop human trafficking. Will we now be bringing in young girls and boys from overseas.

The clause 19 they want to overturn currently says:

” No visa may be granted under the Immigration Act 2009 to a person on the basis that the person—
(a) has provided, or intends to provide, commercial sexual services; or
(b) has acted, or intends to act, as an operator of a business of prostitution; or
(c) has invested, or intends to invest, in a business of prostitution.
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July 3, 2023 11:22am
- cmm
  
  You’d hardly think this was on the skills shortage list. All those single mums on the dole seem to know what to do.
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:22pm
Swifty

What’s the difference between ‘a bit tipsy’ and half-pissed?
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July 3, 2023 11:23am
- NothingLeft
  
  The amount of spin, both in the experience and the reporting.
  
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  July 3, 2023 11:58am
- Beach Haven expat
  
  The moment you decide it’s fine to leg it out a restaurant without paying because the plebs won’t bow and scrape to you?
  
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  July 3, 2023 12:05pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @ swifty
  “What’s the difference between ‘a bit tipsy’ and half-pissed?”
  One is drunk and the other is drunker.
  
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  July 3, 2023 12:38pm
  - I remember when
    
    Personal opinion.
    
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    July 3, 2023 1:14pm
- cmm
  
  Let me translate:
  * “Sober” = not obviously staggeringly drunk
  * “Bit tipsy” = drunk, but not completely head in the gutter and arse in the air drunk.
  * “Drunk” = needs to go to ED for an emergency stomach pump.
  
  Tipsy enough to “forget” to pay? Yeah, right.
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:26pm
Libertarians are right

Justice Thomas absolutely skewered Justice Jackson last week over the Harvard case. She dissented, as the Democrats always do, on ideological grounds (rather than law) and he provided a response to racist her stupidity. This is very relevant to us:

“Even taking the desire to help on its face, what initially seems like aid may in reality be a burden, including for the very people it seeks to assist. Take, for example, the college admissions policies here. “Affirmative action” policies do nothing to increase the overall number of blacks and Hispanics able to access a college education. Rather, those racial policies simply redistribute individuals among institutions of higher learning, placing some into more competitive institutions than they otherwise would have attended.”

“Yet, in the face of those problems, it seems increasingly clear that universities are focused on “aesthetic” solutions unlikely to help deserving members of minority groups. In fact, universities’ affirmative action programs are a particularly poor use of such resources. To start, these programs are overinclusive, providing the same admissions bump to a wealthy black applicant given every advantage in life as to a black applicant from a poor family with seemingly insurmountable barriers to overcome. In doing so, the programs may wind up helping the most well-off members of minority races without meaningfully assisting those who struggle with real hardship.”

“Finally, it is not even theoretically possible to “help” a certain racial group without causing harm to members of other racial groups…. As the Court’s opinion today explains, the zero-sum nature of college admissions—where students compete for a finite number of seats in each school’s entering class—aptly demonstrates the point. Ante, at 27.9 Petitioner here represents Asian Americans who allege that, at the margins, Asian applicants were denied admission because of their race. Yet, Asian Americans can hardly be described as the beneficiaries of historical racial advantages.”

“Far from advancing the cause of improved race relations in our Nation, affirmative action highlights our racial differences with pernicious effect. In fact, recent history reveals a disturbing pattern: Affirmative action policies appear to have prolonged the asserted need for racial discrimination.”

“The solution to our Nation’s racial problems thus cannot come from policies grounded in affirmative action or some other conception of equity. Racialism simply cannot be undone by different or more racialism. Instead, the solution announced in the second founding is incorporated in our Constitution: that we are all equal, and should be treated equally before the law without regard to our race. Only that promise can allow us to look past our differing skin colors and identities and see each other for what we truly are: individuals with unique thoughts, perspectives, and goals, but with equal dignity and equal rights under the law.”

and the big one:

“JUSTICE JACKSON has a different view. Rather than focusing on individuals as individuals, her dissent focuses on the historical subjugation of black Americans, invoking statistical racial gaps to argue in favor of defining and categorizing individuals by their race. As she sees things, we are all inexorably trapped in a fundamentally racist society, with the original sin of slavery and the historical subjugation of black Americans still determining our lives today. Post, at 1–26 (dissenting opinion). The panacea, she counsels, is to unquestioningly accede to the view of elite experts and reallocate society’s riches by racial means as necessary to “level the playing field,” all as judged by racial metrics. Post, at 26. I strongly disagree.

First, as stated above, any statistical gaps between the average wealth of black and white Americans is constitutionally irrelevant….

Yet, JUSTICE JACKSON would replace the second Founders’ vision with an organizing principle based on race. In fact, on her view, almost all of life’s outcomes may be unhesitatingly ascribed to race. Post, at 24–26. This is so, she writes, because of statistical disparities among different racial groups. See post, at 11–14. Even if some whites have a lower household net worth than some blacks, what matters to JUSTICE JACKSON is that the average white household has more wealth than the average black household. Post, at 11. This lore is not and has never been true. Even in the segregated South where I grew up, individuals were not the sum of their skin color. Then as now, not all disparities are based on race; not all people are racist; and not all differences between individuals are ascribable to race.

***

Accordingly, JUSTICE JACKSON’s race-infused world view falls flat at each step. Individuals are the sum of their unique experiences, challenges, and accomplishments. What matters is not the barriers they face, but how they choose to confront them. And their race is not to blame for everything—good or bad—that happens in their lives. A contrary, myopic world view based on individuals’ skin color to the total exclusion of their personal choices is nothing short of racial determinism. JUSTICE JACKSON then builds from her faulty premise to call for action, arguing that courts should defer to “experts” and allow institutions to discriminate on the basis of race. Make no mistake: Her dissent is not a vanguard of the innocent and helpless. It is instead a call to empower privileged elites, who will “tell us [what] is required to level the playing field” among castes and classifications that they alone can divine.

***

Worse, the classifications that JUSTICE JACKSON draws are themselves race-based stereotypes.

***

Though JUSTICE JACKSON seems to think that her racebased theory can somehow benefit everyone, it is an immutable fact that “every time the government uses racial criteria to ‘bring the races together,’ someone gets excluded, and the person excluded suffers an injury solely because of his or her race.” Parents Involved, 551 U. S., at 759 (THOMAS, J., concurring) (citation omitted). Indeed, JUSTICE JACKSON seems to have no response—no explanation at all—for the people who will shoulder that burden….”

Sorry for the length, but this is one of the best arguments I’ve seen against Affirmative Action etc.
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July 3, 2023 11:29am
BeaB

I love the Left when it’s one of theirs in the media spotlight. They twist themselves into knots to rationalise behaviour they decry if it comes from National.
It’s the best entertainment and Kiri and Tory are adding to the general merriment. Best line so far: they thought I was drunk because I wasn’t wearing make-up!
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July 3, 2023 11:44am
Hugh Jarse

Media release, Wellington Mayoral Office. On Friday afternoon the Mayor was undertaking a Liquor Licensing inspection of a number of Wellington bars in line with Green policy that alcohol is evil and needs to be carefully controlled. During these inspections she accidentally drank several glasses of alcohol given to her by a friend thinking they were non alcoholic.

After a long day in the office and patrolling bars she decide to have a meal. She was tired and emotional after her long day and accidentally left a restaurant without paying and accidentally taking a wine bottle with her. She tried to explain that she was on official Mayors business and only looked drunk because she hadn’t put make-up on, she asked the waiter if he knew who she was as she needed him to understand who she was and that she was in an official capacity, any other interpretation is purely accidental. That is all. There is nothing further to add, move on. ENDS.
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July 3, 2023 12:19pm
- rockape
  
  I knew at heart you were a closet greenie!
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:27pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Just trying to get some practice as a highly paid Comms contractor after I retire !
    
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    July 3, 2023 2:17pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  “Tired and emotional” was the phrase used to describe George Brown the Foreign Minister in the Wilson Govt who was known to be a boozer.
  
  He turned up on the ships trapped in the Bitter Lakes in 1967 about 7 sheets to the wind.
  
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  July 3, 2023 3:13pm
KKKKatee

The Gizzy Gangster is having a ‘mental health day’ again today. The boss is back in town and not happy after all? Even though he tried to say the volume on the phone was too loud. Whatever, Chris.
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July 3, 2023 12:36pm
Chris Nisbet

Went to Countdown today and see they have switched to paper bags. If they were a bit bigger, came with handles and made from plastic, I might even have been able to reuse them for other things.
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July 3, 2023 12:38pm
- rouppe
  
  At least countdown are supplying paper bags.
  
  Unlike PaknSave
  
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  July 3, 2023 12:46pm
  - SoloView
    
    @ rouppe
    
    You might be at the wrong PaknSav.
    
    PaknSav Aranui have had paper bags from the first day of no plastic…
    
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    July 3, 2023 3:20pm
- Mummy
  
  I put 4 carrots into a paper bag and they fell out the bottom before I left the shop.
  
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  July 3, 2023 1:08pm
I remember when

“Don’t you know who I am?”
Good Lord!
It so common that even the Greens and their whanau are using it now.
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July 3, 2023 12:49pm
ClanMcleod

Why is the NZ Listener magazine publishing a pro vax, smear filled article that is 18 months out of date and full of provable lies and misinformation?

NZDSOS have done a good article on this nonsensical publication.

https://nzdsos.com/2023/07/01/the-listener-magazine-peter-singer/

As another example of the tricked leading the willfully blind, Australian “ethicist and moral philosopher” Peter Singer still pushes their desperate tropes in his article in NZ’s The Listener: that anti-vaxers are crazy and selfish, and the shots are safe and effective, blah blah blah. The usual implication is – by extension – that we all deserve to die as we reject science. Yawn. Anyway, as we have tried to warn incessantly, it is not us who are dying excessively.

This 18 month-old article, but just published in the Listener magazine and behind its online paywall, can be read here where it was first published.

Here’s a link to the article.

https://www.factsandarts.com/current-affairs/victims-unvaccinated?page=160

Complete and utterly provable lies, propaganda and nasty attacks on people who have done zero harm to anyone else but have been punished for it.

My main question though is as I said at the beginning. Why would The Listener publish something that is 18 months out of date?
That isn’t ‘following the science’, it’s out and out lies and narrative control.

Are they beneficiaries of the PIJ? Is this because NZ is an outlier in the world – still pushing these ineffective and dangerous jabs onto unsuspecting, trusting people? Is this free advertising in exchange for taxpayer money from the PIJ?

As NZDSOS point out:

It takes even more moral liberties than it did back then of course, given the capitulation of ‘safe and effective’ in the face of the mound of worrying evidence. Curious then, that The Listener should re-hash it now when, for example, the UK has stopped most covid jabs for the under 75s, except for ‘immune compromised’ and care home residents. Lamentably however, NZ soldiers on with it’s WHO-affiliated vaccine rollout in blissful irresponsibility, particularly focusing on children and ‘pregnant people‘.

Madness. Or part of the narrative control that continues in New Zimbabwe NZ.
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July 3, 2023 12:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This is why Democrat Elite never go to jail. The system is broken – sort of like NZ.

https://billingsreport.com/hunter-biden-business-partner-offered-to-testify-against-hunter-biden-prosecutors-ignored-him/
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July 3, 2023 12:51pm
I remember when

A study has found that loan officers in Uganda were more likely to offer credit to heavier-looking people.
In a place where food can be scarce, obesity can signal financial security.
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July 3, 2023 12:53pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Those Loan Officers would be very confused in NZ
  
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  July 3, 2023 7:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How to make money from Covid test kits. Wonder if this happened in NZ? Something did.

https://billingsreport.com/did-joe-biden-and-his-cronies-steal-a-billion-dollars-from-u-s-taxpayers-by-overpaying-for-chinese-covid-test-kits/
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July 3, 2023 12:59pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  A number of people made plenty out of the covid nonsense. At all levels. Would be nice to see who got the contracts to supply and deliver, also storage, especially of the actual experimental mRNA crap which needed to be chilled.
  
  I bet it tells a few stories involving a lot of nepotism.
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:31pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Can we return them for a refund?
  
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  July 3, 2023 7:52pm
I remember when

Researchers at the World Bank think they have found a way for countries to get richer, without wrecking the planet.
It’s all about farming more intensively and in appropriate places, while preserving larger areas of forest and habitats that stash carbon and support biodiversity.
“Suppose you were to use all resources efficiently and properly, and allocate those resources efficiently and properly.”
“How much could you produce?” said Richard Damania, chief economist at the bank’s Sustainable Development Practice Group.
“We come up with some shockingly large numbers.”

Sounds great.
Let’s get them to trial their plan in France.
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July 3, 2023 1:02pm
- mawm
  
  “Suppose you were to use all resources efficiently and properly, and allocate those resources efficiently and properly.”
  
  It sounds like the Soviet Union all over again.
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:34pm
ClanMcleod

Excess all cause mortality everywhere correlates with the rollout of the experimental jabs.

There is though this strong correlation between the timing of respiratory deaths and core non-respiratory deaths. One could speculate that respiratory deaths, which vary in number each year, bring forward deaths from non-respiratory causes, and so a corresponding lull in these types of death follows naturally in the summer months.

So has Covid been so extraordinarily different from all the other respiratory diseases that we normally experience each year, and somehow increased the size of the winter non-respiratory mortality peaks, whilst also reducing the size of the normal summer lulls? Or is it perhaps something else entirely, as yet unexplained? As the catastrophe is still unfolding, answers are urgently required.

One glimmer of hope that all this will not be washed under the carpet is that mainstream media have begun to report on the heart death epidemic specifically, although at this stage the disturbingly large increase has been entirely attributed to such things as delayed diagnoses, reduced heart drug prescriptions and ambulance delays. Yet the elephant in the room is still never mentioned in polite company.

This is UK based. In NZ, the media won’t even report excess all cause mortality figures.

In NZ, David Seymour still claims we have negative excess mortality and that the jabs haven’t killed anyone, even though the MoH have admitted to at least 5 jab related deaths.

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/07/02/an-inexorable-rise-in-excess-mortality-since-the-vaccine-rollout/

Of course, correlation is not causation, but it should ring alarm bells and demands for investigation.
No apologies for bringing this up again. It is the biggest attack on society in very many years and in NZ it is continuing on a daily basis, adverts on TV still promoting boosters, even while the rest of the world slowly walks it back.
Madness. Or a deliberate attack on all of us. Either way, it needs to be stopped.
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July 3, 2023 1:04pm
Paulus

Is it not so that the young French boy who got shot the other day was pulled over by the Police as he was driving a stolen car and tried to drive away ?
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July 3, 2023 1:34pm
- SoloView
  
  @ Paulus.
  I think it’s entirely reasonable to kill someone trying to drive away in a stolen car.
  He won’t do it again! //
  
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  July 3, 2023 3:24pm
  - Cinematic
    
    If you spent a reasonable amount of time in France you would know, driving away in a stolen car from French police likely equals being shot. They’re not in the business of messing around.
    
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    July 3, 2023 7:49pm
    - Ghost
      
      That’s sad, it would seem if you drove away in a stolen car in nz you would either get a hug and told to behave, or kfc
      
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      July 3, 2023 7:51pm
kevn

KFC and Maccas reward for youths coming off rooftop after 30 hour standoff.
Awesome…
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July 3, 2023 1:49pm
Taieri

“Taieri MP Ingrid Leary went to a Mongrel Mob election hui in Dunedin at the weekend but says she thought it was an Electoral Commission meeting(…)”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/taieri-mp-ingrid-leary-gatecrashes-mongrel-mob-meeting

Where do they get these cretins from? Is there some sort of factory which fabricates such idiots?
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July 3, 2023 1:56pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Same DNA as Marja Lubeck.
  
  Tells you all you need to know. LOL!!
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:30pm
- Nickc2
  
  Where do they get these cretins from?
  It must be the LABOUR PARTY stamp they apply to foreheads on the production line of births to indicate substandard products. //
  
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  July 3, 2023 5:05pm
Jack5

NZ’s obsessions of indigenous activism, climate change, and general Wokeness overwhelm discussion of industrial growth.

Compare NZ with a developed country of similar population – Finland.

The world’s biggest cruise ship, of about a quarter of a million tonnes, has just been completed in Finland (link below).

Finland (population 5.6 million) has continued ship building while so much of this industry has moved to Asia.

How would the Finns grow Auckland’s yacht industry?

Finns specialise in cruise liners and Arctic ships. Their shipbuilding industry grew in hardship as Finland built ships for the Soviet Union as reparations after World War 2.

A very high proportion of components of ships for the Russians had to be supplied from within Finland. This set a trend. According to a 2018 OECD report, up to 80 per cent of the value of ships the country builds comes from Finland.

The country runs an export credit scheme and close to 30 per cent of its support goes to the country’s shipbuilding industry.

Finnish education methods crop up in our media, but we hear little about its industries, which keep Finland 32nd in the world in GDP per capita (inflation adjusted), compared with New Zealand, which is 42nd (CIA World Factbook).

The big liner:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/experiences/cruises/132442996/worlds-biggest-cruise-ship-gets-taken-out-for-its-first-spin?dicbo=v2-QUGzNV7
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July 3, 2023 1:57pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  That is Gross Registered Tons which are a measurement of volume or earning capacity.
  
  It is not a measurement of displacement.
  
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  July 3, 2023 3:09pm
- Nickc2
  
  An impressive engineering achievement indeed.
  Does anyone know the merits or otherwise of the recent design changes in bow shape for maritime craft? Even the racing foiling catamarans have adopted the newly shaped bow as standard design even though their bows are supposed to spend little time in the water?
  
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  July 3, 2023 4:57pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Te Maori Pardy arrives en masse at Oranga-Tamariki-Yoof-Facility to make sure police don’t harm “our poor babies” protesting on the roof…..

https://tiktok.com/@daniellaybourn84/video/7250961786072091905

Most people we know are at a loss to understand why the AOS weren’t sent in.

Just saying.
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July 3, 2023 2:06pm
- Ghost
  
  My maori is very rusty, what version of maori is that they are speaking, it sounds like English to me?
  
  Sad too see ambulance chasing MP’s attacking the police
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:18pm
  - Jack5
    
    -1
    
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    July 3, 2023 2:50pm
- Vladislava
  
  “Most people we know are at a loss to understand why the AOS weren’t sent in.”
  
  Because the teenagers on the roof do not have firearms?
  
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  July 3, 2023 3:02pm
Swifty

I’ll have to word this very carefully to avoid the wrath of the Mods, so here goes.

I am by no means an intuitive person, I think I’m distinctly average in that regard, but I do admit to instant feelings of suspicion with this bloke, especially reading his ‘lectures’ to us about all things Maori, where he comes across all ‘holier them thou’ and seeing his pic.

And then this:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300919846/teacher-at-elite-girls-school-had-sexual-relationship-with-16yearold-student

We don’t send our young daughters to schools to be preyed upon by entitled men who think it’s a smorgasbord for them to choose from.

What a damned disgrace.

I’m slightly heartened that he’s lost both his education jobs and his job with Stuff but if he’s been communicating sexually with a young woman under 16 then I hope and trust criminal charges will follow.

Dodgy. Dodgy. Dodgy.

I’d like to see one more Stuff column from him – an explanation from him as to why he has behaved in this way. Who or what will he blame, other than himself?
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July 3, 2023 2:08pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Oh dear, Stuff having to report bad things about their chosen special peeps…..AND they hired him too….how embarassing.
  
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  July 3, 2023 2:26pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    I should also say Stuff did fine something to ‘blame’ in their paragraph:
    
    “Initially, Taurapa denied any wrongdoing, but later, when confronted with further evidence, accepted he had engaged in serious misconduct and breached his professional obligations by trying to help Dray with her mental health. As an inexperienced teacher, he said he had failed to comprehend the difference between the Māori cultural values regarding his responsibilities to young people and the professional boundaries of teaching.”
    
    Difference between cultural values and his responsibilities ……EVERYONE knows not to do that, teacher, maori or not. PERIOD.
    
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    July 3, 2023 2:32pm
    - Swifty
      
      What, he was observing Maori cultural values when he sexted a 15 year old? And had oral sex in his car with a pupil in his care?
      
      Really? Is that what he’s claiming?
      
      Pull the other one.
      
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      July 3, 2023 3:03pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  an explanation from him as to why he has behaved in this way.
  
  deny, deny, deny,
  lie, lie, lie,
  Blame the victim (x3)
  Bring up kulcha when cornered.
  
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  July 3, 2023 4:36pm
- Mike
  
  Stuff said he was employed as a ‘translator’, was that only partially true?
  
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  July 3, 2023 5:56pm
  - Swifty
    
    If that were true then there must be another bloke who has written multiple columns for Stuff who looks identical to him and with the exact (single) name.
    
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    July 3, 2023 6:24pm
  - Swifty
    
    Here is but one:
    
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300867094/who-really-cares-about-te-reo-mori-in-their-business
    
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    July 3, 2023 6:49pm
Taieri

The world according to Statistics NZ:

“Sex is based on a person’s sex characteristics, such as their chromosomes, hormones, and
reproductive organs. While typically based upon the sex characteristics observed and
recorded at birth or infancy, a person’s sex can change over the course of their lifetime and
may differ from their sex recorded at birth.”

https://www.stats.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Reports/2023-Census-Final-content-report/2023-Census-Final-content-report.pdf

Wonder what professor Lysenko would have made out of that?
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July 3, 2023 2:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wonder what professor Lysenko would have made out of that?
  
  Hahahahaha
  
  Told folks of the wonders of exposing their goollies to a prolonged period of winter cold?
  
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  July 3, 2023 6:01pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Yeah, but how do you get them to grow back?
    
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    July 3, 2023 7:56pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      That’s the beauty of Lysenkoism…
      
      It doesn’t work..
      But everyone says it is working.
      
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      July 3, 2023 8:15pm
Lee C

Just this:
https://youtu.be/UTUFm_zV-5Y
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July 3, 2023 2:36pm
ClanMcleod

Dr Peter Hotez has been a massive supporter of the ‘vaccines’ and extremely vocal attacking anyone who dared criticise covid policies. Usually as ‘far right’, ‘pro Russian’, ‘anti black’ etc etc etc. The normal smears from people without a valid debating position.

Jimmy Dore crucifies him here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs2Abw0NEBM

If you watch this video and aren’t very angry at the lies and deliberate distortion of truth by this scumbag then you aren’t human.

Listen to the evidence of his complete position reversal from when it was Trump pushing ‘operation warp speed’. As did most Democrats.

He explains clearly why rushed vaccines are a very bad idea. Why Emergency Use Authorisation is a very bad idea. Why everything about these vaccines, mandates, masks etc are a bad idea.

This is a brilliant compilation which shreds any reputation Hotez ever had. It proves him a complete and utter fraud. He’s shilling for Fauci’s job, but the receipts are in this video. Seriously, you will be stunned at the number of lies and flip flops by this pos. It is next level.

Exactly the same thing happened in NZ. Our ‘experts’ lied repeatedly, they continue to lie, as do our politicians. We are being ruled by frauds and liars.

Watch that video, share it widely, it exposes these liars for the dangerous people they are.
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July 3, 2023 2:45pm
ClanMcleod

Apologies for the ramble above. Better still, just watch this video. Please. It doesn’t need explanation.
It shows a covid ‘expert’ absolutely destroying his own career and reputation because he forgets that the internet holds receipts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rs2Abw0NEBM
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July 3, 2023 2:46pm
Ghost

If it’s white powder hunter would have dropped it by mistake

The White House grounds were evacuated Sunday after the U.S. Secret Service (USSS) discovered an “unknown item.”

“U.S. Secret Service Uniform Division Officers located an unknown item on the White House complex,” a USSS spokesperson told Fox News Digital.

“As a precaution, the White House grounds were evacuated, and the DC Fire Departments Hazmat team responded,” the spokesperson said.

Article
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July 3, 2023 2:57pm
- Mike
  
  Was it a box of secret files accidentally stored in the visitors’ toilet?
  
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  July 3, 2023 5:50pm
  - Ghost
    
    Joe is more likely to hide them in the garage beside his car, if he can remember where the garage is or what a car is. Hell it would be a positive if he can remember he is joe.
    
    3 1
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    July 3, 2023 6:09pm
    - Mike
      
      Given Biden’s age and infirmity, it’s fortunate that his likely opponent next year is a senile and incompetent crook.
      
      1 6
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      July 3, 2023 6:24pm
Jack5

A Maori language teacher at an upper-class girls’ school in Christchurch had sex with 16-year-old student.

The teacher at Rangi-Ruru School used for trists a room that he knew didn’t have security cameras.

The girl waived suppression of her name, and the teacher, described by Stuff as “Taurapa, formerly known as Connor Taurapa Matthews”, failed in attempts to keep his name secret.

The Teachers’ Disciplinary Tribunal said Taurapa’s conduct was “at the most serious end of serious misconduct cases that come before the Tribunal”.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300919846/teacher-at-elite-girls-school-had-sexual-relationship-with-16yearold-student

Or you can read the Tribunal decision here:

https://teachingcouncil.nz/assets/Uploads/CAC-v-Taurapa.pdf
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July 3, 2023 3:09pm
- Ghost
  
  Just a brief scan, no police compliant or prosecution
  
  4 0
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  July 3, 2023 4:58pm
  - Mike
    
    Jack5 is only interested because it’s a Māori teacher.
    
    1 14
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    July 3, 2023 5:42pm
    - Jack5
      
      Mike, if ya gotta troll , at least try to be grammatical.
      
      Jack5 is ~~only~~ interested only …
      
      4 1
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      July 3, 2023 9:08pm
      - Jack5
        
        But there’s more …
        
        From the Teachers’ Disciplinary Tribunal report on the Rangi Ruru complaint:
        
        As of the date of this summary of facts (November 2022), Taurapa is no longer employed as a Kaiako at TWT. He has taken up a role in the media industry.
        
        From Stuff 12 September 2022:
        
        In the spirit of partnership and in keeping with its commitment to Maori, Stuff hired its first full-time reo Maori translator, Taurapa, in July to support language revitalisation and normalisation across the company’s platforms.
        
        Taurapa (Te Rarawa) translates a number of stories daily across many genres, from te ao Maori, hard-hitting breaking news, to lighter entertainment pieces.
        
        2 1
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        July 3, 2023 11:09pm
      - Ghost
        
        Time for a complaint to stuff
        
        2 0
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        July 4, 2023 12:01am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Funny how his pakeha names fell off
  
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  July 3, 2023 7:57pm
Swifty

A nice little piece on the advantages of wool and the disadvantages of wool competitors:

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300911849/wool-is-the-better-choice-so-why-is-it-valued-so-poorly
12 0
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July 3, 2023 3:20pm
- Ruahine
  
  Because it is produced by Farmers.
  
  4 2
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  July 3, 2023 5:10pm
Chuck Bird

I received my letter from Hipkins which is basically electioneering. I am thinking of complaining. Would anyone know if National has done something similar when in government?
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July 3, 2023 3:22pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  I am not sure why I got the downticks. I have no idea if such a practice is common for the party in power. If it is, any complaint would not be worthwhile. If not, it would be worth making a complaint,
  
  6 3
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  July 3, 2023 5:24pm
  - Mike
    
    Perhaps you could describe the letter. I routinely get unsolicited letters from national and labour MPs touting their wonderful achievements.
    
    1 8
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    July 3, 2023 5:44pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      The letter lists most of what Hipkins has done since he became PM. The only thing lacking is Vote Labour.
      
      I think it may be in breach of the Electoral Act.
      
      4 2
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      July 3, 2023 8:18pm
      - Ghost
        
        Can’t be a very big list then
        
        Removed Nash as minister
        Removed wood as minister
        Preparing to remove Allan as minister
        Reinstated tax that will put the cost of living up substantially
        Rang Jacinda and asked her how many more ministers have hidden things
        
        Anything else in the letter I’ve missed.
        
        5 1
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        July 3, 2023 8:25pm
goNZ1

Hipkins has given Kirri Allen another 2 weeks off – this is getting beyond a joke on taxpayers who are strugglig to survive!
26 2
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July 3, 2023 3:47pm
- kevn
  
  @goNZ… ‘Time for a good chat’. FFS.
  
  6 0
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  July 3, 2023 4:30pm
- Swifty
  
  Dock her pay!
  
  😀
  
  12 1
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  July 3, 2023 4:47pm
- Ghost
  
  She’s put a post up she has taken leave to look after her kid over the holiday, so who is telling the truth, Hipkins or Allan, tough question, they both lie
  
  15 1
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  July 3, 2023 4:56pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    FFS!!!!
    
    I didn’t get paid time-off to look after my kids during school holidays.
    
    Ordinary working parents either have to take annual leave or pay for someone to look after their children during hols.
    
    14 1
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    July 3, 2023 5:57pm
    - Ghost
      
      The thing is she didn’t need to say anything. The house has risen for the holidays. MP’s have gone home to spend the holidays with their kids. I wonder if she will decide over here two weeks that isn’t a mental health break, to not stand at the election for labour
      
      8 1
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      July 3, 2023 6:06pm
      - marcw
        
        There are still Committee meetings scheduled for this week in Parliament.
        
        https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/sc/schedule-of-meetings/
        
        7 1
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        July 3, 2023 6:17pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I saw Hippy saying it in the telly
    
    4 0
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    July 3, 2023 7:58pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/132455117/sport-nz-injects-45-million-into-kaupapa-mori-sport-and-nutrition-programme
More millions of taxpayer money for maori crap which should be the province of Treaty Settlements payouts.
15 1
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July 3, 2023 4:36pm
Maggie Pie

What’s happening with Meng-the-merciless?

Last we heard he was “uncertain whether he’d resigned or not”.

Maybe he’ll catch up with Kiri while she’s home on leave?
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July 3, 2023 4:38pm
Ghost

Guess they are going to have to build some more prisons in the usa. Could be interesting prison talk.

What you in for

3 years armed robbery, you

5 years, didn’t call the bloke in the dress a she.

A recently passed bill in Michigan could make it a felony to intimidate someone by intentionally using the wrong gender pronouns, according to some legal experts.

Michigan’s state House of Representatives has passed bill HB 4474, a piece of legislation that criminalizes causing someone to feel threatened by words.

Under the new bill, offenders are “guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $10,000.”

Article
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July 3, 2023 4:53pm
- Mike
  
  The US supreme court recently ruled that prisoners cannot challenge a sentence even if subsequent rulings show that courts misinterpreted a law and convicted a person for conduct that wasn’t actually a crime, so they are doing their little bit to keep more people in jail.
  
  1 6
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  July 3, 2023 5:48pm
Swifty

Any insinuation that the torture and murder of this teenage woman was the result of anything other than poverty, white supremacy and not enough state-provided wraparound care is a filthy lie perpetuated by racists.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/mangere-torture-murder-trial-woman-accused-of-participating-in-17yo-dimetrius-pairamas-forced-hanging/LWBCXFKIRVGETDAL2SN6BZWNPM/

I know Labour have been in government 15 of the last 24 years but you just need to remember, lefty policies will work – they just need more time, more money and your vote and everything will come right.

Don’t give in to the haters. Give Labour your vote this election.

//
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July 3, 2023 6:20pm
Ghost

We’ve said the same thing and written to him about it, ignored. Last time he was down here he walked around the street and then went to business event where you had to pay to see him. Pass. If he wants people to vote for National then he needs to reach the swing voters, they aren’t going to pay to go hear him. Seems, at least down here, it is just the hard core supporters that pay to see him.

National Party leader Christopher Luxon has been challenged to “get out more”, with a supporter telling him people want change but “don’t know you”.

The comment follows longstanding questions about Luxon’s ability to convince the country to make him Prime Minister come October, having only been an MP since 2020 and Leader of the Opposition since the end of 2021.

Article
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July 3, 2023 7:21pm
Swifty

There’s a lesson for New Zealanders here:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12256969/How-tiny-council-ran-1-2billion-debt-trying-Singapore-Surrey.html

Not that many will take heed.
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July 3, 2023 7:26pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That’s very funny, in a tragic and I’m glad I don’t live in Woking kind of way
  
  3 0
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  July 3, 2023 8:03pm

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