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July 2, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 02 July 2023

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General Debate

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2ic

Well, aren’t us ‘freedom voters’ lucky. Such a smorgasbord of choices this election now Liz Gunn has thrown her hat into the ring:

Matt King – Democracy NZ
Sue Grey/Brian Tamaki – Freedoms NZ
Leighton Baker – Leighton Baker Party
Liz Gunn – NZ Loyal

Now individually I have a lot of respect for what these people have done to stand up for the rights of New Zealanders over the shameful chapter in our history that has been the Covid response, but seriously, what an absolute shambles.

You can add TOP and New Conservative in there too as options for those of us who feel abandoned by National/Act, but there’s no chance of any of these parties getting anywhere near the 5% threshold. I initially held some hope for Democracy NZ, but not after their recent implosion.

With Winston Peters now openly courting the freedom vote (https://realitycheck.radio/winston-peters-on-the-covid-response-his-answer-to-a-very-serious-question-that-went-viral/), NZ First might be the only option a freedom voter has to get a voice in Parliament. Although given Winston’s history, this does seem like nothing more than a cynical political move to get him over the line at election time.

Terribly disappointing to have the ‘freedom vote’ so splintered in what is such an important election.
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July 2, 2023 8:00am
- Warren
  
  A vote for any of the above named Parties is vote for the return of a Labour ,Green’s and Maori Party and a chance for them to remain the Government.
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:09am
  - Philview
    
    I suspect people gravitating to those parties also come from the Greens and Labour. I know a couple of life long Labour voters who now despise their Party but will certainly not be voting National/ACT.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      A few diehards have said to me they will never vote Labour again.
      These are people in their mid forties, so over 25 years younger than me.
      They even apologise for voting Labour in, only to find that Labour have totally wrecked our lovely New Zealand. Dumbfounded is the word.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:20am
    - peterwn
      
      If they despise Labour they should be voting National or ACT. A vote for any other party is effectively a vote for Labour. Also abstaining is effectively half a vote for the political party you do not want (Labour in this case).
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:00am
  - Che Guava
    
    “A vote for any of the above named Parties is vote for the return of a Labour ,Green’s and Maori Party and a chance for them to remain the Government.”
    
    The solution to this conundrum, then, is not to not vote for these smaller parties, but for National to adopt the more “radical” positions they espouse as their own.
    
    And how “radical” are the policies really? Personal choice when it comes to one’s body and one’s reasonable freedom of movement, unmolested by some bureaucrat? Gee…. that’s some revolutionary shit right there! What a bunch of nutters!
    
    And that’s just for starters. National are far too centrist (aka left wing) for my liking. I would like to see some illiberal policies and a revanchist social conservatism and pro-European stance, free from the fetters of progressive liberal dogma. Less focus on “minorities” as if they were also in the majority interest, and more focus on the rest of us who are taken for granted.
    
    The principle is that “if you change nothing, then nothing will change.” If you want a serious change of direction, then you have to do the thing that is most likely to achieve it, and as of today, voting for National will not achieve it.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:13am
    - rockape
      
      A strong National party with one partner will be a very different party from the Key government that had to appease the Maori Party or Peter Dunne to get anything done. It was the same with Labour, they became much more radical when they had the majority of MPs. I think even witching National there are many who are to the right of the party and will drag it in that direction even without ACT.Having had the chance to question many of Nationals new candidates that view I have is reinforced.
      
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      July 2, 2023 2:13pm
    - tf78
      
      You have to collect the most votes to change anything – the Nat’s have to sit right where they are to gather the most votes. Act can say what they like as they will only appeal to a minority where the Nat’s can’t afford that luxury.
      
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      July 2, 2023 7:15pm
  - Bob
    
    Forget that FEEDBACK ; finger trouble.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:36am
  - Bob
    
    a chance for them to remain the Government……
    FOREVER: THEY will change the rules!
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:37am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    As much as I hate that kind of thinking generally (like, how did ACT get to where they are today, if not for people actually voting for people and policies they directly want?), but, this time around, NZ can not afford to hand the current wreckers, haters and idiots another term! So ACT/National it is, for now!
    
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    July 2, 2023 2:13pm
  - plc
    
    Are you a tall man from Otago?
    
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    July 2, 2023 2:39pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      plc is who a tall man from Otago?
      
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      July 2, 2023 4:35pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        G
        
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        July 2, 2023 7:49pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    A failure from the major parties to apologise and address the freedom voters concerns could see us end up with a Labour Greens Maori govt.
    
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    July 3, 2023 3:06pm
- hullkiwi
  
  The mention of Peters in a sentence with “Freedom” is completely at odds with Peters role in events. He was part of the government that rammed through the fire arms legislation. He was part of the government that imposed the initial lockdown and MIQ regulations.
  
  Using the old cliche, “a leopard doesn’t change its spots”, and with that Peters is the original political snake oil salesman, who (IMO) is not to be trusted.
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:13am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    He wasn’t just “part of the government” hullkiwi; he was the Deputy Prime Minister who Ardern had to run every piece of legislation by. Every law that Labour enacted between late 2017 and 2020 has the Winston Peters Seal of Approval.
    
    Don’t trust him.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:12am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Tony, I agree.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:18am
    - Mike
      
      Rather ironically, Helen Clark would never have become prime minister had not Jenny Shipley used Winston Peters as a (feeble) excuse to stab Jim Bolger in the back. Winston Peters has been the savior, or villain, for both major parties at least four times so far. Should NZ First be in any position of influence again, whoever wants to be prime minister will happily sing their praises of Mr Peters.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:53am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        I didn’t hear Bill English or Steven Joice singing Peters praises in 2017.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:16am
      - rockape
        
        It’s funny that any party that goes with him usually suffers in the long term.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:17am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Jesus Christ Mike, I have to uptick you!
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:22am
      - Matt Long
        
        Bolger wasn’t cruising for an easy victory, potentially a NZF /Bolger government would have had more chance than Shipley, but you can hardly assert Clark would not have become PM.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:49am
      - peterwn
        
        Jim Bolger and co stuffed things up be pursuing to much Rogernomics nonsense. His government tried to take on the firefighters (at the behest of the Round Table) and lost badly. They wanted to privatise the street outside your house. One of their MP’s threatened a police sergeant with career damage if he did not cease writing tickets for dangerously parked cars outside schools, etc, etc. Little wonder they lost to Helen Clark in 1999 and lost even worse in 2002.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:07am
      - gravedodger
        
        Mrs Shipley deserves recognition for ridding this nation of Spud Bolger as head of government and any review of his moves subsequent to leaving the power base must give cause to wonder just how he got on that “turtle post”.
        His thwarting of Richardson’s moves as Finance Minister to consolidate the Douglas reforms gives the insight to his socialist leanings.
        
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        July 2, 2023 1:52pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        peterwn yes National has a history of being hideously arrogant and deaf to real societal issues. Choose your poison carefully though this time!
        
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        July 2, 2023 2:16pm
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Winston knows who he stands for.
    
    He sees it every time he looks in a mirror.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:23am
  - Bob
    
    mentioning Peters and freedom in the same sentence is an oxymoron isn’t it.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:40am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Your comment seems to assume that there is, or ever was, a ‘freedom vote’. Anyone who visited the rabble obstructing Thorndon last year could tell you that those ill-assorted wannabes could never cohere into an actual political movement. Apart from the problem of narcissists like King, Grey, Tamaki et all, who all naturally see themself as the rightful leader of the imagined movement, the likely followers represent a vast array of unrelated grievances.
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:17am
  - wilderbeast
    
    So boring and predictable with the broad smear Mike. I’ve had the pleasure of meeting some of your “Ill assorted wannabes” Mike, most memorably a single woman running a 300 acre sheep farm on her own who travelled two days just to get to parliament. I’m not surprised you wouldn’t like her, she’s a proper, positive adult with a mind of her own and doesn’t spend her life on-line doing petty sniping and gaslighting.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:14am
    - Mike
      
      [Mod – off topic trolling]
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:58am
      - Mike
        
        [Mod – this discussion has nothing to do with your obsession with Trump, you can stop trolling this blog]
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:18am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Uptick for Mod.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:24am
    - softail 1450
      
      NZ owes the parliamentary protesters a debt of gratitude, up until then Jacinda Ardern thought she and her government could do any damn thing they wanted to without pushback, they were wrong and Ardern lost her nerve during that protest.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:58am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Yes I was in a state of total despair at how weak the people had become until those brave souls stood up for all of us
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:16am
      - Che Guava
        
        100%. There’s this bizarre kind of inverted Stockholm Syndrome wherein everyone whose asses were saved by those who dissented against Covidmania still hold them in contempt. Someone like Mike, who likes to refer to these people as “rabble” would be booked in for his 10th booster shot on Monday morning if not for the dissenters, here and around the world, who put a massive spanner in the works through their bravery, integrity and strength of character.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:49am
  - Simon
    
    Lol – so many emotionally invested in their multiple booster shots. It’s a problem.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:26am
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s very hard for people to say that they were completely wrong, and deeply disturbing to admit that the government, the media and the “experts” lie to them most of the time.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:53am
      - gravedodger
        
        I have no difficulty Che, in admitting I allowed my judgement to be overcome by a very concerted campaign of encouragement to go with the experiment.
        The pressures on our collective medical assessment had me to a state where non compliance was akin to personal negligence that approached criminal, but eventually I am happy and content if a little chagrined to have called a halt to our participation hoping any damage included will be able to be overcome.
        All leaving some once highly regarded health professionals extremely diminished in respect.
        
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        July 2, 2023 2:01pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      A perfect example of cognitive dissonance.
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:06am
    - KKKKatee
      
      Yep. Some are still rushing off for a regular top up.
      
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      July 2, 2023 5:42pm
  - rockape
    
    Not often I agree with you but in this case I do.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:33am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Funny isn’t it Mike, how people protesting against a Labour Government are a rabble, whilst people that are protesting against a National Government are always “principled” and protesting for a “just cause”.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:25am
    - Che Guava
      
      Mike’s as tribal, self-interested, intolerant of difference, and inconsistent when it suits as the next guy is, but he and his ilk can’t ever admit it, because this (the default attitude of all people) destroys claims to be an enlightened, dispassionate, disinterested and rational seeker of the objective truth regardless of personal prejudice.
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:00am
  - 2ic
    
    @Mike
    Yet in spite of constant vilification by the government and media, 30% of the country actually supported the parliament protestors:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/127808790/parliament-protest-new-poll-shows-30-per-cent-of-kiwis-support-antimandate-protest
    I believe this is the reason why National are struggling to get their noses in front of what can only be described as the worst government we have ever had. A lot of New Zealanders, like me, are not happy with their refusal to acknowledge the harms the the Covid measures (that were fully supported by National/Act) have caused.
    
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    July 2, 2023 1:04pm
    - graham
      
      And stunningly, Stuff seem to get it right in the hyperlink – antimandate; NOT (as so many people tried to gaslight) antivax.
      
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      July 2, 2023 4:54pm
    - leoj
      
      Yup. All 121 MPs were a disgrace.
      
      With what do associate “lock-step”?
      
      That is the government we have.
      
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      July 2, 2023 8:29pm
- Matt Long
  
  Liz Gunn announcement.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/liz-gunn-launches-new-political-party-and-asks-for-1m-in-donations/THXFIT47UBCTNLAIDYOU2WHFD4/
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:20am
  - Matt Long
    
    One of the interesting points from Netanyahu’s Bibi is that it’s much more effective to persuade populations than politicians.
    I guess that’s why the socialists have worked so hard to take over the MSM and education.
    We need to be resourcing the Taxpayer’s Union, Free Speech Union and similar organisations rather pinning our hopes on people who would be marginalised and ineffective even if by some miracle they got into parliament.
    
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    July 2, 2023 8:28am
  - rockape
    
    If she hasn’t got 500 signatures she hasn’t got a political party.
    
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    July 2, 2023 8:49am
- gravedodger
  
  If you seriously consider Winston Peters will give you a voice in the Parliament please seek help you have cognitive issues.
  If you want your view considered join a party and go to work.
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:48am
  - RoboRob
    
    Agree. It is a massive mistake to think that Winston stands for anything other than Winston. Why on earth would someone think he stands for freedom? What in has massive career has he ever done that would back up his words and attending a protest doesn’t count.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:35am
    - softail 1450
      
      RoboRob, Peters is so predictable that you could mark a day in mid February every election year and sit back and wait for the dog whistling quotes and Maori bashing to begin, its actually all the old bastard has got left.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:04am
    - rockape
      
      Peters should wear a Mongrel Mob patch if he thought their was a vote in it !
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Would, not should.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:39am
  - 2ic
    
    I didn’t say Winston Peters will give me a voice in the Parliament. I said NZ First might be the only option a ‘freedom voter’ can consider, because:
    1. We know 100% certain that a vote for National/Act will not give ‘freedom voters’ a voice in Parliament
    2. They are the only one of the minor parties I listed with a realistic chance of getting in Parliament.
    
    I haven’t decided who I will vote for, but I’m predicting that NZ First will be back in Parliament based on Winston Peters’ courting the ‘freedom vote’ being enough to get him over the line.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:53am
    - Cassandra
      
      If Peters stands a chance of 4.9% then I hope he gets 5.1%. I’d prefer 0% but better in Parliament and a pain in the arse than 4.9% and the rabble back in (and f mike crowing).
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:44am
    - Dougal10
      
      The funny thing is Democracy NZ has similar origins to NZ first and I do still see similarities of ideas if you remove Winston and maybe Jones from the mix. This is why the minor party thing is a cluster all fighting for about 8% of the vote left after labour/green and national/act have taken their share .
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:54am
      - stiff cheese
        
        A New Zealand First party, without Winston, has an even chance of getting my vote. (Winston has to go, for the error of ‘placing the crown’ on Jacinda’s head; and I’ve been persuaded Jones is tainted by that stupid choice, too).
        
        But I’m really hoping the minnow parties can get together, in a similar fashion to Jim Anderton’s Alliance.
        
        Just agree on 3 or 4 key issues that are simple for voters to digest:
        For my part, I want a commitment to: no more Vaxx Mandates; no more Lockdowns; no Net Zero (but perhaps, as a sop to green-tinged but rational people, we could do a combined Tree-planting Initiative / Back-to-Work scheme for the long-term unemployed).
        
        Plus a big “NO!” to the W.H.O. Pandemic Treaty. (Because we PAY our own parliamentarians to make the laws we’ll follow, NOT bloody foreign bureaucrats with shady connections to the well-heeled Usual Suspects.)
        And “NO” to reality-denying surgical mutilation of minors’ genitalia….
        
        (Basically, lots of “Noes”)
        Did I forget much?
        
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        July 2, 2023 1:34pm
    - rockape
      
      Winston Peters, the man that gave you a Labour government and mandates. Good place for a protest vote against those mandates. What Winston says today will be to get votes and he will unsay it the day after the election.
      
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      July 2, 2023 1:46pm
  - rockape
    
    I agree. Getting a chance to talk to MPsand ministers only happens if you join. I have had MPs and ministers come to my local pub at my invitation and boy have they had their ears filled by locals and go away better for it.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:55am
- Its only I
  
  You will be told to shut up, hold your nose and vote National or Act, then an argument will break out between regular commenters about the theoretical power Act will have over National…while a larger number are participating silently using the early version of a cancel culture tool, the thumbs up or down with the possibility your thoughts are hidden due to not conforming to the group think theme of the day.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:16am
  - rockape
    
    You must be in a different party than me ! I have always had a chance to say what I think and never been put down. Some of what I have said has been incorporated into policy and I have only been a party member 6 years.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:57am
    - softail 1450
      
      rockape You may have misunderstood it’s only I ‘s last 8 lines I suspect.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:10am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      rockape – then why do prominent politicians only respond to emails when they think they have fobbed you off with a bs answer to a genuine concern, but then refuse to even acknowledge receipt of subsequent emails that ask specific questions re the same subject?
      
      Rhetorical question, I know why. Their bs and waffle doesn’t work when you ask specific questions that demand specific answers.
      
      This applies to all politicians and journalists. They will NEVER address difficult questions, which is why National/Act are doing everything possible to avoid even acknowledging anything to do with covid.
      They can’t criticise Labour because the were in total agreement about every response, other than to say they would have done it better.
      
      It’s as pathetic as it is tragic.
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:13am
      - rockape
        
        Like in most professions, if you go around undermining your superiors expect to get told to desist or expect to get sacked.
        
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        July 2, 2023 12:29pm
- The Other Enoch
  
  If you want another 3 years of a Liebour led govt then vote for any of the above. If you do and we have another 3 years of Liebour I can only foresee mass bankruptcies and race riots. I cannot foresee any other way out of this mess if Liebour remain in power.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:29am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    It is impossile to find a political party with a proven successful manager in charge (why would they take a pay cut to be publically harrangued?) which has 100% alignment with your views or the pace you would like to see change.
    
    You have to choose the least bad party then (if you want to see real change) work to come up with viable solutions and organise or join others to make the change happen.
    
    The dutch farmers did it.
    
    We can too.
    
    But it will require less time discussing the same problems repeatedly on kiwiblog and more time doing something about the problems.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:31am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Then tell National/Act to do something about it. The ball is firmly in their court.
      
      Us pleb voters have minimal chance of influencing anything as you keep reminding us when we talk about the minor parties. But strangely enough, you want us to vote for your choice of political party?
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:16am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        I have been and will continue to make suggestions to National and Act. But a lone voice won’t achieve much, a combine voice will!
        
        So come on KBers, whilst identifying problems is important, repeating the problems ad nauseam is pointless.
        
        We need VIABLE solutions and actions.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:38am
      - mawm
        
        Mark – the repetition is because nobody wants to address the concerns that we have. At some point both Luxon and Seymour will have to address the same old points that keep on coming up.
        
        Early on in the covid response I wrote to my MP – ACT’s leader, and expressed my concern about vaccine passports and the threat of loss of freedom of movement, and that it was contrary to past expert medical opinion. He’s response was to compare it to Yellow Fever despite there being no equivalence. There was no expression of individual sovereignty. Further exchanges lead me to believe that any more were futile. I see he has not reconsidered his opinion, which is a shame. I now think of him as a performing parrot.
        
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        July 2, 2023 3:40pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        MAWN. You won’t get a response prior to the election as national and act won’t risk getting embroiled in a covid response debate. Remember 55% of idiot NZ voters thought Adern did a good covid job,
        
        The solution is:
        
        1. do everything we can to help act and national win the election (it will be a landslide victory for the centre right but we should all aim to help them attain the largest majority possible)
        
        2. setup voter collectives (I have been informed there are groups concerned with MRNA already setup) to canvass national and act for a royal commission into the covid response (by a Swedish judge} including a forensic audit of all government spending for the last 6 years and investigative audits of the labour hierarchy’s personal wealth,
        
        3. if step 2 fails. start crowd funding for citizens’ instigated legal action against Adern, Hipkins, Robertson, and Bloomfield (as citizens in Canada and the UK are doing).
        
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        July 2, 2023 5:09pm
      - mawm
        
        Mark – It’s looking more and more like not voting is the best option.
        
        The Act/National coalition should be doing No. 2 and promoting it as an election promise.
        
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        July 2, 2023 6:19pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    National are not a way out.
    
    They are, at best, a light dab on the breaks.
    
    How would you like your societal breakdown: Soon and small, or later and large?
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:33am
    - NK
      
      I’ll have mine with fries please kk.
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:56am
    - Manolo
      
      Thank you for reminding the readers: the Nats are spineless.
      
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      July 2, 2023 3:17pm
    - mawm
      
      KK – we have been assured that it will be better managed by them.
      
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      July 2, 2023 3:41pm
    - crikey
      
      Society has already massively broken down under the current Labour government.
      
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      July 2, 2023 3:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If Labour win in Oct, there will be a lot of people who just don’t want to be here.
    I see a lot moving to Oz, and a lot developing mental conditions. We are not all mentally strong.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:34am
- Jack5
  
  For any sharemarket veterans: I think Liz Gunn is the daughter of Max Gunn, a great fighter on behalf of shareholders at company meetings.
  
  Back in the day, most Mum and Dad shareholders turned up at annual meetings to shake directors’ and CEO’s hands over a cup of tea and thank them for the company performance, no matter how mediocre.
  
  Max Gunn, a keen sharemarket investor, stood up at annual meetings and asked awkward questions. He persisted even when servile shareholders, murmuring and tut-tutting, sided with the director chairing the meeting.
  
  Max was an accountant, and his questions were rational and pertinent.
  
  I know nothing of Liz Gunn’s politics, but because of old Max, I’ll at least read her policy.
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:25am
  - stiff cheese
    
    She opposed mandatory mRNA vaccines, as did Sue Gray.
    Why aren’t they joining forces?
    
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    July 2, 2023 1:50pm
    - Master Mariner
      
      Also the closure of Marsden Pt.
      
      Made a good documentary about it, Here’s the most recent one.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9ywzKj7_2k
      
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      July 2, 2023 3:36pm
- ByGolly
  
  I have no respect/patience for any of them.
  If the incumbents stay in power by a small margin, these dreamers are directly responsible.
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:38pm
Warren

When Vernon Small ex Labour Party advisor for David Parker starts penning the facts on Kiri Allen you know there is more to the story than what other media Jounalists are prepared to tell.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300918717/labour-minister-kiri-allans-future-in-the-balance
Small says it is unprecedented for Senior Government employees to come out and bag Minister’s in the way they have over Kiri Allen, so it looks like there might be some interesting time ahead when the Prime Minister Chris Hipkins arrives home from China.
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July 2, 2023 8:01am
- Swifty
  
  https://twitter.com/aniobrien/status/1674653754518544384
  
  One of the best I’ve seen.
  
  [NB. only registered twitter users can view these links now. mod.]
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:36am
- miltonF
  
  I’ve noticed a bit of a pattern. Labour member is naughty. We’ll get presented with dozens of “it’s not so bad” articles from MSM. All articles will be closed to commenters. The rot keeps festering for weeks. Then we will finally get an article on stuff news about the naughty labour member that will be OPEN to comments. I feel this is the Labour Party and their MSM lapdogs testing the waters and the effectiveness of their propaganda campaign. Nek minnut, labour member goes bye bye.
  
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  July 2, 2023 3:23pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Christchurch CC has set up a roving, rapid-response squad to fix potholes, clip trees & smooth the footpath.

Giving the ratepayers what they want, eh.

It’ll never catch on.
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July 2, 2023 8:08am
- igm
  
  They obviously do not have a woke mayor any longer.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:13am
  - Jack5
    
    The new Mayor, Phil Mauger, set up the roving potholers.
    
    He’s made one Woke move: keeping Christchurch in Local Government NZ after Auckland pulled out.
    
    1. Potholes – Phil will fill ’em:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/131692475/six-months-into-his-mayoralty-how-is-phil-mauger-doing-as-the-leader-of-christchurch
    
    2. Auckland Mayor reckons Local Government NZ $400,000 conference about “getting pissed and dancing”:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/131587192/800-members-getting-pissed-and-dancing-wayne-brown-pulls-auckland-council-out-of-local-government-nz
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Seen to be trying?
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:21am
Bridgenag

This is a big read but important as it appears we are following the USA with most things.
“HOW A “CYBERSECURITY” AGENCY COLLUDED WITH BIG TECH AND “DISINFORMATION” PARTNERS TO CENSOR AMERICANS”:
THE WEAPONIZATION OF CISA – Interim staff report for the Committee on the Judiciary and the Select Subcommittee
https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/how-a-cybersecurity-agency-colluded?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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July 2, 2023 8:13am
- Master Mariner
  
  Wonder what NZ equivalent is ? NZSIS ?
  
  Thought control runs strong amongst 5 eyes signatories. //
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:28am
  - Mike
    
    Sounds like you agree with Kim Dotcom and the Internet Party kooks from 2014 that John Key was illegally conspiring to spy on you.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:01am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The far left universe really is a parallel universe! I take it you have no interest in internet security and privacy?
      
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      July 2, 2023 2:19pm
rockape

If Winston gets over the line, he will do what he always does. Go with the party that offers him the most. That will be Labour who are desperate to retain power at any cost.
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July 2, 2023 8:16am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  So national was the most ‘desperate’ in 1996? But you don’t think national would be ‘desperate’ to form a government this year?
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:33am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Of course they were Mike, as we both know. Bolger and Clark fought tooth and nail to win over Peters because he held the key to power. What Confucius said was true in 1996; power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:15am
    - Mike
      
      And Jenny Shipley did a noble thing by corrupting Peters’s colleagues.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:02am
  - rockape
    
    Not enough to be sell outs like Labour. But then it’s not going to matter. National 40% ACT 15% and that’s it !
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:35am
    - Mike
      
      I’m a bit sad to see you already dissing National’s target of 45%.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:03am
      - rockape
        
        Targets are not always the same as reality. As a good lefty pray tell what’s Labours target for votes this election. Before you do, reality is about 30%.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:24am
      - AitchW
        
        Like most lefties, Mike, you don’t understand the value of setting ambitious and achievable targets. Unlike Labour’s billion trees etc etc National has set a target that will be difficult to hit, but still doable.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:48am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Then National/Act should do the decent thing, make a public statement and acknowledge the harms and abuses carried out by the Labour government.
  That they only supported them at the time because they didn’t have access to all the data and evidence that is now available.
  
  Then promise to never let it happen again.
  
  The ‘Winston problem’ goes away overnight. Promise. I cannot understand why apparently astute politicians don’t see this.
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:36am
  - Its only I
    
    The politicians don’t see it because there is no mechanism for you to show them.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:03am
  - Ipanema69
    
    Clan,
    
    I disagree that there is any political advantage to National/Act taking the course of action you describe for several reasons.
    
    1) It risks creating an election issue of the Covid response.
    
    There is only so much bandwidth available in the run up to the election. National and Act want the discussion to be around a discrete set of points. These being the economic mess Labour have created, the crime situation and co-governance (57 waters). Any bandwidth spent talking about the Covid response is time that we are not talking about these issues.
    
    2) Like it or not there are still a significant set of the population that think that Jacinda saved us all from Covid.
    
    Again making the Covid response into an election issue will only make those individuals think about an issue that is fast fading into the rearview mirror. As Sung Zhu said fight the enemy where they aren’t.
    
    3) Covid is yesterdays issue.
    
    As alluded to above for the majority of people Covid is fast fading into the rearview mirror. People have short memories and the reality is that there are more fertile fields for National and Act to plough.
    
    I don’t disagree with many of the positions you have espoused with respect to Covid and the Vaccine. However the very presence of Democracy NZ, Freedom NZ, LBP & NZ Loyal makes it unlikely the NZF will get over the line solely on the back of the Covid response.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:04am
    - coge
      
      National, under Chris Luxon, had 15% of their voting support sheared off them in early 2022. Through their unquestioning support of the Ardern covid doctrine. The dehumanisation, segregation and economic persecution of the NZ people. Those votes have not returned to National, or Act. National will go into this election playing a week hand if this isn’t addressed. They owe it to themselves and NZ.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:17am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Your numbers don’t add up.
        
        If you exclude National, Act, Labour, Greens and TPM there isn’t 15% of the vote left over. Much more like 7 or 8% and that includes NZF, which always has at least 2 or 3%.
        
        Perhaps you mean 15% of Nationals own vote. At peak, which was prior to Covid, it was about 45%, so 15% of that vote is about 7%. In the 2020 election that 7% went mostly to Labour and a similar amount went to Act, driving National under 30% at the election. Since then there has been a steady recovery, up to around the mid 30’s.
        
        There have been two voter flows since 2020. Labour has lost 15% of its 2020 result so is now in the mid 30’s. Most of that 15% has gone to National, but National has also lost some of its vote to Act. Maybe some of the 2020 Labour vote has gone straight to Act.
        
        National and Act, taken as a bloc, haven’t lost any vote, in fact they have gained a very considerable amount, enough to have them knocking on the door of government.
        
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        July 2, 2023 9:47am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Wayne Mapp – almost 20% of eligible voters didn’t bother in 2020, even less in 2018. That’s a lot of potential votes.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:22am
      - NK
        
        Clan, I predict turnout this October to be well under 80%. Loyal, tribal Nats will shake their collective heads and ask “why”.
        
        Disenfranchisement. That’s why. Total loss of confidence in “the Establishment” that the likes of Wayne cherish so dearly.
        
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        July 2, 2023 12:01pm
      - slightlyrighty
        
        That’s rubbish.
        
        In 2017, the Center Right Vote, (Nat and ACT) was 44.9%
        
        In 2020, Under Collins, the Center Right Dropped to 33.2%. The Nats dropped from 44.4 to 25.6
        
        Current opinion polls have the Nats up to 36%. Hardly the 15% drop you refer to. With ACT at 13%, the center right is above the figures of 2017.
        
        While changing to Hipkins has given Labour a bit of a poll boost, the shine has worn off.
        
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        July 2, 2023 2:06pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Agreed; Covid is behind us. Last weekend at the National Party conference Shane Reti told delegates that when he is the Minister of Health, he will not allow Covid to be used any longer as an excuse for the current failings of the system.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:17am
      - NK
        
        It might be for politicians because it’s convenient. I’ll never forget the most disgraceful episode in this country’s history that I can remember. Supported every which way by National and Act.
        
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        July 2, 2023 9:26am
      - Clownworld
        
        All National , Act , Labour , Greens and Maori Party were united in their contempt for the unvaccinated. No apology for lost jobs, ineffective lockdowns , draconian totalitarian rules. All guilty of not listening to all NZers.
        
        Did you lose your job? House? Have to leave NZ to keep your integrity?
        
        None deserve our vote.
        
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        July 2, 2023 9:29am
      - Ghost
        
        None might deserve your vote but a vote for none of them will guarantee another 3 years of labour
        
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        July 2, 2023 9:43am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Not with you on this one,
        So the trampling of BOR , Loss off freedom, Loss of free speech and the biggest debt ( Great cash splash), And all for what ?
        Covid.
        So with Dr Reiti not allowing Covid to be used as an excuse ? Is pretty naive.
        In all honesty , the next decade will be dictated by the misguided policies that resulted to combating Covid.
        
        It is never going to go away until ( Like most countries are learning) there is a comprehensive and crediable review.
        The sooner the better.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:47am
      - Jack5
        
        Master Mariner’s right. The economic carnage from the shutdown for Covid has turned NZ into the Land of the Long Black Cloud.
        
        Inflation from Labour printing tens of billions of dollars through bond issues; people and school kids losing motivation to work and to study; health system near collapse; ethno-nationalism rampant; law and order shaky as gangs and child hoodlums run rampant …
        
        These all due to, or allowed by or enhanced by, the Covid shutdown.
        
        It was an utter failure by the Ardern team. Sweden was right to stay open.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:40am
      - stiff cheese
        
        Dewi Preece’s report on our Health system the other night (1News) was pretty damning:
        45 percent still waiting for their operation after the 4 month mark. In some provinces, it’s 70 percent waiting after 4 months.
        
        That’s a lot of time to stress about your cancer spreading, or your angina turning into a heart attack.
        
        Jacinda can explain how she achieved all this & more in her new book. . . Call it: “How NZ Closed The Gap With Zimbabwe”.
        
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        July 2, 2023 2:16pm
      - mawm
        
        Tony – Did Reti say anything about apologising to the families of those killed by the vaccine? Or say that a National Party will assist the injured? He can’t be that ill informed that he doesn’t know that either occurred. It beggars belief!
        
        This gets back to my point – National and ACT have to address the elephant in the room.
        
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        July 2, 2023 3:54pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      @Ipanema69 – thanks for the rational and measured response.
      All I can say in reply is what I’ve said many times.
      
      There are a substantial number of eligible voters in NZ who were harmed and abused to varying degrees by covid policies. They are looking for ANYONE to give a voice to their genuine grievances and concerns.
      
      For the National/Act supporters to constantly bang on that a ‘vote for anyone other than National/Act is a vote for Labour’ won’t change those peoples’ minds.
      Asking them to ‘take one for the team’ is about as big an insult as you can throw at them. The abuse was horrendous, it was societally destructive, and pretending it didn’t happen will only cause the problem to fester for much longer.
      
      If National/Act have decided that they don’t want to touch it as an election issue then that’s that and the ‘chips will fall where they may’.
      Personally I believe it shouldn’t be difficult at all for the Nats/Act to come up with a statement that acknowledges these things in a way that will garner far more support than it loses.
      
      There’s nothing more to say about this topic really. Every aspect of it has been covered. Interesting times indeed.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:35am
      - Dougal10
        
        The good thing to come out of 2020 election is the nats have whole lot of new candidates that dont have and lockdown/mandate baggage.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:03am
      - miltonF
        
        You know what would be funny Clan? If it was actually Labour who comes out first to disown the Covid response.
        
        Pretty far-fetched I know, but not entirely out of question. As you know, they are as cunning as s$&thouse rats and may become desperate.
        
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        July 2, 2023 3:33pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Ipanema69 – one thing I forgot to say, like it or not, covid IS an election issue for a not insubstantial number of people. That’s why we’re having this conversation. That’s why National/Act are struggling for parity with Labour/Greens/TPM.
      
      I might be wrong, but what else can explain their struggle to get ahead of the worst government in NZ history? Let me know if you have some ideas, because I cannot think of any.
      
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      July 2, 2023 9:40am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        The problem with your analysis , as I indicated yesterday, is that a significant percentage of the total vote has stayed with Labour, Greens and TPM. It has not gone to National and Act, but neither has it gone to the parties that have Covid as a central theme.
        
        In short, the very government that bought in the covid measures still has enough support to being close to retaining government, in part because the economy has not yet had major job losses.
        
        I think that will change. The key factors that will cause the change will be the economy and crime., Every poll indicates that. Note that National has characterised the economic issue as “cost of living”, not recession. The reason being that there have not been wide scale job losses.
        
        Yes, there might be a significant group of people for whom Covid is their key issue, But that appears to be around 5%. Bear in mind that 5% of the population is 250,000 people, and therefore can form a very substantial community of like minded people.
        
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        July 2, 2023 9:59am
      - Mike
        
        But it’s an issue for some posters here, Wayne, because it’s their only issue, and there are enough like-minded people in the Kiwiblog bubble to maintain the illusion that their fixation is shared more broadly than reality demonstrates.
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:06am
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Mike. I asked a few people on kiwiblog for solutions (including Wayne Mapp) but none have provided viable answers (Wayne just ignored my request for his solutions).
        
        So here is a couple of questions and a solution request for you.
        
        Why hasn’t the horrendous international post covid death rate been reported by the press and why have goverernments been delaying or hiding mortality stats (which have largely been uncovered by non government sources like life insurance companies or in NZs case leaked hospital data).
        
        Why hasn’t a public inquiry been initiated to discover why NZ has our worst mortality increase since the Spanish flu?
        
        Then when we find out what caused the death rate (which suspicially started during the MRNA injections), what do we do about it to ensure it is never repeated
        
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        July 2, 2023 10:52am
      - Ipanema69
        
        Hi Clan,
        
        Thanks, I can only say that my basis for saying that Covid is only going to be an election issue for a relatively small number of people is simple human psychology. Specifically people tend to be more concerned about what is impacting their lives now rather than what was occurring a couple of years ago.
        
        My experience of the lockdowns was not good. My youngest teenage son had some mental health issues that became acute during the first lockdown. The sheer frustration of not being able to get him the professional help he needed during the first lockdown is something I will never forget. It also pretty much wrecked two years of his education. I will never forgive Jacinda or Ashley for what they did to my son and wife.
        
        That all being said I will be voting Act this election. I do not agree with all of the positions held by Act. As an example I’m not big on assisted suicide (lets not go down that rabbit hole!)
        
        However to give a quote from Bill Maher you don’t get anywhere in politics by disagreeing with people that you agree with you on 80% of the issues.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:15am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Wayne Mapp – I understand what you are saying, my belief is that this group is fractured BECAUSE they can’t decide who is most likely to get over the threshold.
        In fact, I believe that there are a lot of people (I’m one) who, if I was asked today who I will vote for, would be listed in the ‘don’t know’ column. I genuinely have no idea, other than to have totally eliminated Labour/Greens/TPM.
        
        The thing is, National/Act don’t need to make covid a ‘central theme’. Far from it.
        I’m not a political expert, but I believe they just have to do the human thing and acknowledge the damage done and say they won’t let such a monumental cock up happen again.
        
        I think that will be enough to not only give them a substantial poll boost, it should have the added bonus of stopping the topic being brought up repeatedly.
        
        I’ll be first to announce my choice here when I have made my mind up, but right now I haven’t got a clue. But if National made a brief statement along the lines that I said above, they are guaranteed my vote.
        
        Avoiding it is going to do them more harm in the long term I believe. I am sure they have plenty of experts who are telling them the opposite. We’ll see how it pans out.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:35am
      - NK
        
        Clan, they won’t make those statements because they all believe they have nothing to apologise for. Luxon gave a rousing speech in Parliament supporting the Wood’s #RiverOfFilth.
        
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        July 2, 2023 12:22pm
    - wsk12345
      
      Hate to say it but I tend to agree that the right can only lose by bringing up covid policies at this point.
      Like Clan I am unvaccinated. As a self employed person I lost all my SOE/government agency work. I was ostracised and ridiculed. I will never forgive any of them. But I can see why – even if they did want to, which they don’t – the Nats/ACT don’t want to make it an election issue. Because if they do, people who think she did a marvellous job will think omg I need to keep my family safe for the next pandemic so I best vote labour…..
      
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      July 2, 2023 5:50pm
  - rockape
    
    Self flagellation is rarely a good tactic in politics.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:00am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “I cannot understand why apparently astute politicians don’t see this.”
    
    You assume astuteness, Clan. When I look at our political herd I mostly see ineptitude, narcissism, and values that flutter in the breeze.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:41am
- artemisia
  
  Is Labour desperate though? May be desperate for an easy few years on great pay and perks, no responsibility and time for voters to forget 6 shambolic years.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:19am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    artemisia – that’s a very good point. The country is a shambles, it’s going to take quite a bit of pain to sort it out. 3/6 years in opposition with full pay is probably quite appealing to many of those wasters.
    
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    July 2, 2023 9:46am
  - rockape
    
    The danger for Labour is the rise of other parties. Many see ACT as competition for National. Me I see the rise of ACT support and the rise of the center through National. It’s the center voters who have been most harmed by Labour. Those with a mortgage, a job and paying net tax. Don’t be surprised if National become like the UK Dems, holding the middle while AVT command the right and Labour the left.
    I think something like a 30%,30%,30% split is on the cards for 2029.
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:05am
- RoboRob
  
  You should also mention that once he is in power he stops doing anything until the next election. His ‘work’ in the first term with labour was around the re elect Winston fund (PGF), he was quite happy to let Labour do anything else they wanted, like shutting oil exploration. See how LPG users are enjoying that one now.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:39am
- coge
  
  Then National better get with the program then. And address the reason why they are still playing with a weak hand. Blaming the electorate isn’t going to solve this.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:12am
- Paulus
  
  Winston will get 3% if he is lucky – so let him bawl out his lies.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Go with the Party he can blackmail the most. The most desperate.
  Amazing what will be given for power!
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:43am
Prince

‘The Country is stuffed’.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/132454223/the-country-is-stuffed-petrol-pain-is-back-and-not-just-at-the-pumps

Indeed. The Govt debt has exploded out to $152B.
The Govt spends $3M every hour more than it taxes.
They have no plans to trim their spend, they admit to no waste.
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July 2, 2023 8:16am
- Simon
  
  Yep the shit weight of govt.parasite.nz is extraordinary. The poor least able to carry. They are buried as the food parcels are just flowing out. They are gone. Lost. The parasitical govt impacting hard the working of NZ.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:18am
- sirknz
  
  Is it just me or do the headlines on $tuff this morning read a little more “Things are really bad” than usual?
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:22am
  - nathie
    
    Labour’s Monday morning Zoom call with the editors will correct that anomaly!
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:54am
    - Ghost
      
      The press stand up’s in China show the media are turning against labour.
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:02am
      - Prince
        
        I thought there was smell of desperation around Hipkins in China.
        He knows his Govt are increasing debt by $3M every hour.
        He knows his ‘tax more’ options are closing down.
        He knows the demands for more Govt spending are deafening – his minsters are increasingly desperate to announce new ‘initiatives’.
        He knows NZ’s main industry, farming, is increasingly under attack by his own Party, and their likely coalition partners.
        
        He is gambling on China helping us out.
        If they do, there will be a price.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:56am
G152

As to the Covid debacle what of those Health workers who refused the jab and were sacked?
We already have severe shortages of nurses and doctors and with the convoluted crap doctors have to go through to remain registered why would they even bother putting up with this crap
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July 2, 2023 8:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The brainwashed ones are still working in Health, and still do not want to work with the unvaxed. Crazy what this socialist Govt has done to people.
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:00am
- rockape
  
  Like in most professions, if you go around undermining your superiors expect to get told to desist or expect to get sacked.
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:18pm
- miltonF
  
  Exactly. They aren’t bothering and I don’t blame them. Health professionals have always been paid less in NZ compared to many other countries, but we used to have some draw cards to keep them here. Quality of life, low crime, fair and free society, human rights like bodily autonomy, freedom of speech, good place to raise kids.
  
  That is all gone now. Literally nothing to attract professionals to NZ.
  
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  July 2, 2023 3:42pm
Bridgenag

German government to begin systematic surveillance of RSV, so that public health authorities can identify “outbreaks” and “implement measures to … prevent spread”
The virus pests are just never, ever, ever going to stop, part 25234234123

“Note also the insidious role of the vaccinators. As soon is there is a jab for any virus, the pressure to begin counting that virus begins, thereby making a problem where nobody ever noticed one before. It’s thinly veiled marketing for the vaccine producers, undertaken by the health authorities at public expense.”
https://open.substack.com/pub/eugyppius/p/german-government-to-begin-systematic?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

A few rat bags over there it appears….. add this on………

German Scientists Find Evidence that EU Pfizer-BioNTech Batches Included Placebos

https://open.substack.com/pub/edv1694/p/german-scientists-find-evidence-that?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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July 2, 2023 8:17am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  My first COVID vaccination caused the expected redness and slight swelling that most vaccinations cause.
  My second COVID vaccination yielded no reaction whatsoever. It was as if I had been injected with saline solution.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:21am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    There were saline shots found in NZ.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/449990/saline-vaccination-error-delay-in-telling-public-regrettable-hipkins
    
    I cannot see how that was possible unless some of the ‘vaccines’ supplied to NZ were saline. They must have been in exactly the same packaging in the same location.
    It is impossible for a vaccinator to ‘accidentally’ give someone a shot of saline in such a situation. The article says 5 people could have received saline?
    
    Bizarre doesn’t begin to explain it, though it lends support to the story that Bridgenag alludes to and which krazykiwi covered extensively in yesterday’s GD. That Pfizer deliberately released different batches in the EU that had significantly different outcomes. That 30% of them may have been placebos.
    Basically, they carried out lab trials on the population of Europe.
    
    No doubt a ‘conspiracy theory’……..//
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:07am
    - NothingLeft
      
      If it was saline then it was intentional substitution – fraud of some sort (most likely stolen product). There is no other way for something to enter the pharmaceutical supply chain.
      
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      July 2, 2023 10:22am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      So how much did the Govt/Taxpayer fork out for salty water?
      
      12 2
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      July 2, 2023 11:07am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Steve Otto – a lot, and just like with Tamiflu, a lot of that money is going down the toilet.
        
        Might be a good OIA request for someone. As the jabs expiry date comes around and the number who still think it’s a good idea to stick it in your body continues to decline, a substantial amount of this garbage is going to be destroyed.
        
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        July 2, 2023 11:52am
    - greybeard
      
      Here is an email I sent to Mike Hosking 30 June 2022:
      
      ” On Thursday morning you interviewed a scientist from Victoria University in regard to the development of non-addictive painkilling drugs.
      During that interview she said that they had been working on it for about 15 years and expected it to take a further 5 years before clinical trials were begun.
      She said that the development of such new drugs was a long-term exercise.
      If that is the case then how on earth could the so-called vaccines for Covid-19 be developed in a matter of months before being approved and released for world-wide use?
      
      They are probably nothing more than saline solution ! “
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:20am
  - JerJer
    
    There were quite a few doctors around giving saline in place of the vaccine if you didn’t want to get vaccinated but wanted to get all the documentation to say that you were. I know of some people that were “vaccinated” and retained all of the lot normal freedoms, travelled etc. they never got vaccinated. Most never got Covid either, or it they did it was a non-event….
    
    To your point virus’s spread, like, well viruses. If anyone would map the spread of the common cold or a variant across the world they would find the exact same characteristics as the spread of Covid. So these guys in Germany, what can you say. We have had this RSV in NZ for quite a few years. Yes, it’s there, but it’s not a huge problem.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:13am
Tomtoddy

@ 2ic The real tragedy is that the votes they do get when the total is less than the threshold are divided between winning parties so every second vote is helping to re-elect Labour Greens.

If only these minor parties could see, that in what will be a close election, they may well be responsible for keeping the worst ever, most incompetent govt in power.
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July 2, 2023 8:18am
- ClanMcleod
  
  To paraphrase, by refusing to even acknowledge the existence of this substantial number of abused and vilified people – ‘if only National/Act could see, that in what will be a close election, they may well be responsible for keeping the worst ever, most incompetent govt in power.’
  
  It works both ways. You can’t simultaneously ignore these people while at the same time demanding they vote for you.
  
  It’s never going to happen.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:11am
  - rockape
    
    The majority of people in NZ wanted lockdowns and vaccinations. Don’t you believe in democracy. The anti ax parties will not make 1% and they shouldn’t be heard more than the 99%. My wife’s a medical professional and the only anger she had was the delay in getting frontline staff like her vaccinated . The only nurses sacked were ones who voiced their opposition to vaccination to patients counter to what doctors were saying. Funny most of them had brightly coloured hair. Do you?
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:36am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      The majority of people in NZ were brainwashed and gaslit into wanting vaccines and lockdowns. It was all provable lies.
      
      Yes I do believe in democracy. I don’t believe in fascism, which is what happens when you force people to take part in medical experiments and you introduce a medical apartheid system for those who won’t comply. Sounds like you and your wife would have preferred they were physically held down and jabbed? Nice.
      
      There are no ‘anti vax’ parties. That’s a classic ad hominem.
      Those people most vocal about covid policies and abuses will get more than 5% in total, quite comfortably. But they are a very badly fractured group. It’s highly unlikely any will get the threshold alone.
      
      Democracy NZ policies are specifically about entrenchment of the BoR. An excellent idea. This led out of the covid response debacle. Vaccine is NOT their only issue.
      Co governance is the other key policy they are concerned about. What’s to disagree with? Same goes for Leighton Baker. Damn shame they all can’t sort their shit out.
      
      If your wife is a ‘medical professional’, despite all available evidence to the contrary, does she still think the jabs are ‘safe and effective’?
      
      As for the only nurses being opposed to experimental jabs having ‘brightly coloured hair’, I have no idea what you’re implying by that clearly untrue and ludicrous statement.
      
      Don’t forget your booster, and good luck…….
      
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      July 2, 2023 12:12pm
      - Dougal10
        
        Most of it seemed made up.
        
        7 0
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        July 2, 2023 1:45pm
slightlyrighty

I see the Pride Parade in London was stopped by the Just Stop Oil protesters.

The left really is consuming itself….
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July 2, 2023 8:23am
- Philview
  
  Yes, I can imagine the woke brain explosion on that one. In this case the police actually did their job and removed the protestors.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:22am
- ClanMcleod
  
  OMG – imagine the Karens screaming at the others identifying as Karens………😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:42am
  - Master Mariner
    
    LOL,
    Hope there was not too many Vietnamese there ,
    Imagine One Trans screaming at other T(H)rans.
    The mind really does Boggle at times.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:20am
Suze Wainwright

Could Winston co-exist with Rawiri?

Then again I guess he never talked to James Shaw last time around.
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July 2, 2023 8:24am
- rockape
  
  Just as important he is no fan of Seymor who is bust eating Winston’s lunch. Do you think Winston will play third violin ?
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:30am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I can see popcorn prices getting out of control in the coming months……
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:43am
imalwaysright

Kiwis queued in their droves at gas stations to beat a road maintenance
tax increase.

I wonder if they considered what this government intends doing with the money.

In the land of a pothole for every person, it clearly won’t be on repairs .

It will however be used to fund their upcoming election campaign and to keep the trough topped up so that they can fill their bellys while they still can.

The people should have instead driven to Parliament and voiced their displeasure .

It worked well last time , apart from the beatings.
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July 2, 2023 8:38am
- jgw739
  
  This government would be more likely to spend the money on bi-lingual signs warning of potholes, rather than fix the potholes themselves.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:30am
  - kowtow
    
    For a regime that refses to allow us to use the plastics of our choice they sure have a boner on for road cones made from hydro carbons.
    
    25 0
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    July 2, 2023 10:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Those things breed you know. Lay out 50 and next morning there are 75. Only female cones can give birth.//
      
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      July 2, 2023 11:14am
      - kowtow
        
        They also go feral very quickly and can be found in a variety of sub species .
        
        There’s ones that can be found on top of trees , conus arboretus .
        In fresh water rivers; conus fluventus.
        A common one is in bodies of sea water particularly near cities ; conus harboretus.
        Some go indoors as a kind of trophy prize ; conus tertius studentus flatus.
        Then some are simply criminally inclined and find refuge with other trade organisations; conus contractus knickedthis.
        In some cities they also seem to fall over like drunks and are all over the road particularly after Friday night shenanigans; Conus on the pissedus.
        
        13 1
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        July 2, 2023 11:57am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Good stuff kowtow.
        Some are just tired and lazy, so lay down in the long grass.
        Conus gracius.
        
        7 1
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        July 2, 2023 12:22pm
      - GJM
        
        How dare you assume their gender!
        
        0 0
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        July 3, 2023 5:52am
  - wilderbeast
    
    And cyclelanes
    
    5 1
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    July 2, 2023 2:10pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Perhaps the beatings helped.
  
  Helped showcase the vile, nastiness of Ardern unleashing her brownshirts on ordinary New Zealander who wouldn’t stand for her “two societies (yip, yip)”.
  
  Every protestor, excluding the Ardern/Mallard agent provocateurs, is a hero in my view. That they inconvenienced Milky getting to his daily soy latte was a delicious bonus.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:50am
- Dougal10
  
  The increase in fuel price since 2020 has mean’t a huge increase in gst take so the govt weren’t out of pocket and effectively had just removed shaws emissions tax for a while and called it something else.
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That GST take is huge when applied to millions of litres.
    The google machine says 6.9 billion litres in 2019.
    The GST is not huge?
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:27pm
    - Dougal10
      
      ?
      
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      July 2, 2023 1:47pm
- Prince
  
  Just a warning to anyone taking the Johnsonville turnoff from SH1, travelling south.
  There is a massive pothole – take care. Best to travel to the far right (yes, I know, always a good idea anyway) to avoid it.
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:59am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Is it big enough to put Waka Coathanger in?
    That is where they belong.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:29pm
Prince

Is there any ministerial behaviour Stuff cartoonists would not try to defend ?
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July 2, 2023 8:40am
- RoboRob
  
  Depends on the party in power. I am sure a zero tolerance policy will resume if there is a change of government later this year.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:42am
hullkiwi

Proof that just as rust never sleeps, nor do the efforts of the woke/liberal lobbyists who want to dominate our lives and keep us living in fear.

I am referring to the news out of the UK (BBC World News BBC News – The climate change-denying TikTok post that won’t go away
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-66023797 and assorted “Disinformation Projects” to get TikTok to remove content they deem to be climate change denial and false.

Without being able to prove man made climate change is real based on scientific evidence, these groups are using the worn out refrain that “Scientific Consensus confirms climate change is real, so climate change denial is dangerous and must be taken down”

Now, where have we heard that type of refrain in recent times? Amazing how quiet they have gone on all matters COVID related, as their propaganda is shown to be false.

The woke and their assorted misinformation lobbyists and projects need to be stopped and taken down for the sake of humanity. They are dangerous and so are their backers who seek to profit through a continuous diet of fear.
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July 2, 2023 9:00am
- Philview
  
  I read a while back about the DIA is funding school librarians to root out misinformation in schools. It seems to be paying off per the Stuff article today about librarians stopping books getting into schools with unacceptable viewpoints. Bizarrely the US Embassy is also assisting funding in this area. Imagine if the US Embassy was helping to fund a pro Trump narrative in schools, the NZ media would have a meltdown.
  
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  July 2, 2023 9:30am
  - miltonF
    
    That article was bizarre. Apparently the reason they have banned the book is because it gives the impression that Māori before colonisation were a “backwards, barbaric culture”.
    
    Here’s me thinking…if the shoe fits? In fact, some might say that same culture persists today, as evidenced in crime, gangs, child deaths, domestic violence etc etc.
    
    Trying to re-write history. Typical cultural Marxism.
    
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    July 2, 2023 4:01pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Where you read “Scientific Consensus”, replace with “Quasi-religious dogma”. It will read closer to the truth.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Warning warning warning!
Jack Tame is on the idiot box play school TV1.
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July 2, 2023 9:08am
Hugh Jarse

As others have said, Winston will do what gives Winston the best deal. He talks a great talk and knows how to appeal to people, but he can’t be trusted. As for the other single issue parties, any votes for them will merely weaken the ability of New Zealand to get rid of this disaster of a government. Vote Winston First or any of the various other single issue parties instead of National or ACT and you will have a Labour, Greens, Maori Party government in October.
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July 2, 2023 9:14am
- ClanMcleod
  
  National/Act can easily stop that from happening. They so far have refused to do so. That is their decision, we’ll see how it works out.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:46am
Maggy Wassilieff

A Science curriculum for NZ children that is unable to explain what Science is.

The Ministry of Education has recently produced a draft of the ‘refreshed’ curriculum for school science. But calling this document a science curriculum is far too generous. It is a blueprint for accelerating the decline of science in New Zealand.
…

What makes science unique is its highly refined, methodical, approach to investigation, linked to the logic of theory testing. The experimental method is preeminent in this regard. But ‘experiment’ is another word that is absent from the Ministry’s new science curriculum.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/dr-michael-johnston-the-ministry-of-ignorance-strikes-again
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July 2, 2023 9:18am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is awful. Richard Dawkins tells it better than anyone.
  
  https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-im-sticking-up-for-science/
  
  What gets me is the label “western science”. Science is universal. No surprise that students in physics at the National University of Taiwan don’t study Chinese mysticism.
  
  https://www.phys.ntu.edu.tw/enphysics/Default.html
  
  I am unaware of National’s policy on this. Hopefully they will kill it stone dead but I doubt it.
  
  Maori of course have “indigenous knowledge” as do all indigenous people. They knew that rubbing certain plants on skin irritations could alleviate pain. That is not science. It is just stumbling on something. They could not conduct experiments to determine the mechanisms of these “cures” and hence apply scientific method to develop medicines. Simply because they had no mathematics or written language.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:06am
  - rockape
    
    The cradle of a lot of science was the Middle East. The religious nutters there have set their science backward as the will here in NZ.
    
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    July 2, 2023 1:08pm
- Jack5
  
  This parallels the shameful decline of the Royal Society of NZ, which has retreated from science into political activism, notably indigenist activism.
  
  Consider the”Te Tapeke Fair Futures panel it has set up to “to raise public awareness and inform understanding to enhance equality, equity and fairness in New Zealand”.
  
  The society administers taxpayer-funded Marsden grants for research. Some of the 2022 grants that caught my eye:
  
  – $870,000 to Professor L.E. Pihama for “Ngā Kare-a-roto: The Ripples Within – Maori Understandings and Expressions of Emotions”.
  
  – $870,000 to Dr J. de Bres, of Massey University, for a project entitled “It takes a village: Picturing family support for transgender young people in Aotearoa”.
  
  – $870,000 to Professor K.M. Kearney, of Massey University for “Kia whakatōmuri te haere whakamua: Translating Matauranga Māori, usefully applied in the past, to enhance recovery trajectories in the future” .
  
  – $360,000 to Professor C.M. Kenney, of Massey University, for “Kia whakatomuri te haere whakamua: Translating Matauranga Māori, usefully applied in the past, to enhance recovery trajectories in the future”.
  
  – $647,700 to Dr J.K.T. Wilson, of Massey for “Kia rite! Kapahaka for Screens.”
  
  – $360,000 to Dr K.M. Dell, of Auckland University for “Feeling abnormal about normalising Te Reo: Maori wellbeing and intensifying Pakeha consumption of the Maori language”.
  
  – $360,000 to Dr C.T.J. Hui, of Auckland University for “Understanding the sounds of te reo Maori in an acoustically varied world.”
  
  https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/what-we-do/funds-and-opportunities/marsden/awarded-grants/marsden-fund-awards-2022/
  
  Royal Society of NZ’s Te Tapeke Fair Futures:
  
  https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/major-issues-and-projects/fair-futures/about-te-tapeke-fair-futures/
  
  https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/major-issues-and-projects/fair-futures/about-te-tapeke-fair-futures/
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:14am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Holy crap 😭
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:27am
  - Jack5
    
    Whoops@ Apologies for my lack of editing.
    
    Professor Kenney was awarded $870,000 for “Kia whakatomuri te haere whakamua: Translating Matauranga Maori, usefully applied in the past, to enhance recovery trajectories in the future.”
    
    “Professor Kearney” shouldn’t be in my list.
    
    In compensation, here’s another grant: $360,000 to Dr K.H. Dunn, of Canterbury University, for “Taniwha: A Cultural History”. Interesting – but science?
    
    Time allowed for editing posts is short. In future I’ll write posts in Notepad then post them. However, the errors above I’m correcting are mine.
    
    Sorry!
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:49am
  - Che Guava
    
    Much quicker and easier to just put all of those funds in a large pile of bank notes and set it alight.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:28am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Che Guava – best to shred the money and put it into a vegan meal as part of a virtue signaling salad.
      
      Burning it will cause the ice caps to completely melt by the end of next week.
      
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      July 2, 2023 12:17pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Woke-centric grant-whoring wrecks science.
    
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    July 2, 2023 2:23pm
- backster
  
  Well by the time they describe Te Ao maori Mataranga, and Matariki it just about fills the year.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:20am
- Taieri
  
  Just finished reading “Te Mātaiaho The Refreshed New Zealand Curriculum”. What a wonderful vision for NZ education.
  I’m glad that I don’t have school age children anymore. I’m also glad that I’m at the age when I won’t have to see the results of practical implementation of this crap.
  Still, it’s sad to watch the decline and ultimate collapse of what used to be a wonderful country…
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:20am
  - kowtow
    
    It is Year Zero type thinking .
    
    Radical agenda of the French revolution and Khmer Rouge come to mind .
    
    It can only end very very badly.
    
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    July 2, 2023 1:26pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is worse than I feared..
  
  “Central concepts in physics are absent. There is no mention of gravity, electromagnetism, thermodynamics, mass or motion. Chemistry is likewise missing in action. There is nothing about atomic structure, the periodic table of the elements, compounds or molecular bonding.”
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:31am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Regressing to pre colonial times. It will be wonderful. //
    
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    July 2, 2023 10:56am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Will they take the wheel with them?
      
      9 1
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      July 2, 2023 12:32pm
      - kowtow
        
        Comrade, these types will keep all the benefits for the new Elite once established .It’s the peasants , as always, who’ll suffer.
        
        7 1
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        July 2, 2023 1:27pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “It seems that everything in science, from early primary school through to Year 13, will be taught through just four contexts: climate change, biodiversity, the food-energy-water nexus, and infectious diseases.”
  
  Looks like an agenda 😳
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:50am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Just a last word on this. Why don’t we approach one of the top performing countries in science achievement?South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan. Offer to pay them a licence fee to use their curriculum. Send a bunch of the best science teachers to go there for a year. They can then return to New Zealand and run clinics for other teachers.
  
  It would save at whole lot of headaches. Why does a small country like New Zealand need to design a science curriculum?
  
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  July 2, 2023 1:06pm
  - kowtow
    
    Why waste money abroad .
    
    What’s required is a very simple purge and a return to common sense and rationality.
    
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    July 2, 2023 1:29pm
  - cmm
    
    “Why does a small country like New Zealand need to design a science curriculum?”
    
    We don’t need anything new. We just need to reinstate what was there 20 years ago.
    
    Science, at the level taught in schools, hasn’t changed 50 years.
    
    About the last thing of any consequence that has changed is the understanding of plate techtonics. That was new in the 1960s.
    
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    July 2, 2023 1:53pm
blue collar

I’m Taking a photo of a … [If you want your posts approved, then lay off the gratuitous obscenities please. mod.] turtle with a fabric bag around its neck …… then demanding my plastic bags back .
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July 2, 2023 9:33am
Swifty

A little something for Tony Stuart:

“Wanganui Markers.”

Watch the whole thing of you’d care, but especially from about 6:00 mins.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H-aQjUvMaW8

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_indicator

I hadn’t heard of the term.
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July 2, 2023 9:33am
Tasman devil

Very very happy with Jan Tinneti….. I won a big bet that in her interview with Jack Tame on Q and A this morning it would take less than 10 minutes for her to use the Ardern deflection technique of “we need to have that conversation.”

Jan, you are ruining the lives of young people, but we need to have that conversation.
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July 2, 2023 9:44am
Nickc2

Who’s going to be the next Labour Polly to defect to the Maori Party:
a. Nanaia Mahuta,
b. Kiri Allan, or
c. Other?
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July 2, 2023 9:57am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Not Nanaia.
  
  Kiri would fit in nicely, a bully.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:40am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Too Late..
    
    Her only regions of support (East Coast & Bay of Plenty) are already stitched up.
    
    She’ll probably be put into witless protection like Nanaia for the rest of this parliamentary term.
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:27am
- Matt Long
  
  The waka sliders need to have a sinecure at the next election. There’s only a certain number of places available.
  
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  July 2, 2023 10:42am
- slightlyrighty
  
  There are very few Maori MP’s in Labour that do not have a role above a Backbench MP.
  
  The only 2 I can point to are Paul Eagle, who is standing down, and Arena Williams.
  
  Every other Maori Labour MP is either a Whip, Minister or Speaker. Defecting to Te Pati Maori would involve a pay cut.
  
  Tangi Utikere, the Labour CHief Whip, would drop in Salary by nearly 64k if he defected.
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:12am
  - rockape
    
    Their pay cut is coming on 14 OCt anyway.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/full-house-in-ashburton/

Ashburton today at 3pm. Same place.
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July 2, 2023 10:16am
Bobba Fret

So some trouble makers are up on the roof and wont come down. I simply cannot see how this cannot be easily solved. I would simply leave them up there in the cold and wet. They have to eat eventually, so ensure no food is getting up to them and simply wait for them to come down when they are cold, wet and very hungry. It will only be a few days. Could hose them off occasionally too if fire brigade are there with hoses to speed things up.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/incident-at-oranga-tamariki-youth-justice-facility-korowai-manaaki-in-auckland/U74M5NNXYJBKDDI7RTB2U7VY2U/
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July 2, 2023 10:16am
- nathie
  
  Maybe buzz them with drones – it will surely be annoying (their noise) and as a distraction disrupting their concentration. Plus it’s a good way to keep an eye on them (and ensure they are safe)!
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:09am
- kowtow
  
  problem isif one of them falls off or gets hurt in a scenario where the authorities had a “let’s do nuffin till they come down approach” , some ambulance chaser , be it family , judge , lawyer , pollie,uman rights commissioner or media type will call for an enquiry to hold “power to account”.
  
  Thus everyone from top down becomes extremely risk averse and has to be able to point to all the posidive interventions they took to look after the scrotes in their care ……..
  
  The days of Dirty Harry were probably largely mythical, but definitely gone.
  
  ‘When a naked man is chasing a woman through a dark alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he isn’t out collecting for the Red Cross.’
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:12am
- Taieri
  
  They have to eat eventually, so ensure no food is getting up to them and simply wait for them to come down when they are cold, wet and very hungry.
  ————-
  
  And play Barry Manilow songs? Surely, nobody is going to be that cruel?
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:21pm
  - MCōs
    
    Worked fine at the parliament protest
    
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    July 2, 2023 4:40pm
- I remember when
  
  As you say bobba leave them there.
  Who would think being on the roof at this time of year is a good idea?
  Appoint a committee to decide what actions should be taken.
  Have a referendum on whether it is the correct action to take.
  No action needed, they have come down themselves.
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:53pm
- Piniwi
  
  This what you get when the For Maori – By (Bi) Maori is adopted after first adopting a Maori metaphor styled name for Government Organisation and SOE. Or in this case use the Mallard method and just turn on the fire hoses set to sprinkle for their person hygiene naturally.
  
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  July 2, 2023 2:39pm
- [email protected]
  
  I don’t agree with using fire hoses or loud music but also can’t see why special negotiators have to be called in. Waste of taxpayers dollars.
  
  Leave them up there until they decide to come down on their own accord.
  
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  July 2, 2023 7:51pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Sadly, they are feeding & watering them
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:13pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132464640/live-greens-rental-rules-rent-control-and-warrant-of-fitness-on-election-wishlist
Communism and State Control is very much alive in the Green Party. ( Red Party ? )
Wait until someone with skin in the rental game points out the unintended consequences. Although having said that, maybe the consequences are intended, for some obscure reason.
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July 2, 2023 11:31am
- Swifty
  
  More than any other group, it is politicians who bear the greatest responsibility for housing unaffordability in NZ , through their incessant meddling in the market.
  
  The cause of this housing imbalance, that manifests in landlords ‘holding all the cards’, is decades of increased rules, laws and regulation, by politicians, all of which affects the housing supply and price.
  
  And now the Greens want even more rules and regulation to fix what rules and regulation has already broken.
  
  Yep, just more meddling.
  
  The Green Party is a bloody menace and it will be renters who feel the most impact of their incompetence.
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:50am
  - artemisia
    
    The Residential Tenancies Act, and it is just one of the repository of relevant rules, runs to more than 250 stupidly complex pages. Some 80% of rental owners have only 1 or 2 rentals. Unless they are serious masochists with a tax fetish, they have little hope of keeping up. So selling up looks like an option, as is reverting to short term Airbnb etc.
    
    (I actually have a reasonable understanding of the rules, yes sad life I know, and have made decisions accordingly to remove most from RT Act rules. Combination of sold x 2, rented to family x 3, converted to commercial x 1. )
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:21pm
    - I remember when
      
      By the time you have read and understood The Residential Tenancies Act, you are too old to be a landlord.
      Lord, a fluffy title for those with no real influence.
      
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      July 2, 2023 12:45pm
    - greybeard
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132464640/landlords-attack-logic-of-greens-proposed-3-cap-on-rent-rises
      Here we go: didn’t take long to get a response from those affected.
      
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      July 2, 2023 3:35pm
  - rockape
    
    I think the Greens have just found a policy idea guaranteed to drive their vote down to under 5%. Do they never think of consequences like how many people would get out of owning rentals leaving more on the streets or in emergency accomodation. Haven’t they analysed the results of their policies that have put enough strain on the profits of Landlords. Why would property investors want to get in the market.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:36pm
    - rockape
      
      To add to my comment. With Greens/Labour being the package it isn’t going to help Labour either. The renter ,beneficiary class they are trying to appeal to are hard left anyway. Why is it always the poor who suffer under socialism.
      
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      July 2, 2023 12:46pm
  - Piniwi
    
    But Swifty there is already a very long list of unintended consequences from the influence of Greens changing policies or even in fact forcing bad policy. Oil & Gas exploration, No selective native tree logging, No gravel recovery from rivers, No more burning of slash, No open cast mine at Pike River and there are sure to be others that have been missed. Notable today that Davidson seems to lack a good side for the camera as she always ends up looking like a wide native.
    
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    July 2, 2023 2:47pm
- rouppe
  
  The tenant would also need to agree to the increase.
  
  Bwaaaahahahaaaaaaa!
  
  Well they kinda do have that option now, cause they can always leave if they don’t like the rent charged.
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:56pm
SmokerGuy

Embarrassing interview with Jan Tanitti this morning. I don’t doubt her passion for education but it’s very clear she is completely out of her depth and answers every question with “she’s having discussions” or “there’s early signs of improvement” despite really having no concrete evidence to back up almost anything she talked about. How on earth does someone get a role like that when they are so clearly incapable of doing it? Stanford on the other hand is so over all the details, the contrast between her and Tanitti could not be more obvious. Shame on Labour for putting a lightweight in such an important role, dooming a lot of our younger generation.
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July 2, 2023 11:34am
- AitchW
  
  Sadly for Labour she’s the best they have…. Her qualification is that she used to be a teacher. God help our kids…..
  
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  July 2, 2023 11:50am
  - NothingLeft
    
    With rare exceptions modern teachers (excepting those who got in 20-30yrs back) are below average intellectually. It is a low pay low status career for people who are either too lazy or too lacking in talent to do jobs that pay better. Almost none fit for parliament – as labour has proven over last 6 years.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:21pm
  - I remember when
    
    Principal. Principle.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:41pm
- Prince
  
  It’s the same with Health.
  Verrall vs Reti – no contest.
  
  I noticed every time National announces a policy, TVNZ leads with Labour’s response. eg The Law and Order policy last week, they dragged Allan our of ’emotional leave’ to have a crack.
  
  But last night, in the TVNZ News discussion on how poor Te Whatu Ora has been, Reti wasn’t given a chance to speak. Just a few Govt mouthpieces saying ‘give it time’, and a few doubting professionals.
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:05pm
  - Ghost
    
    I saw a Te Whatu Ora ad on tv last night, I rarely watch live tv. No idea what the ad was about, some stupid off to work song and then the writing only in maori. I’m guessing it was telling maori to go off to work now…..
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:10pm
    - AitchW
      
      It’s a typically patronising ad telling us to stay home if we’re unwell, in the process tacitly encouraging the indolent to use all of their 10 days annual sick leave. Yet another example of this government caning business owners. They really hate anyone who aspires to succeed.
      
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      July 2, 2023 12:28pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Tonight they are reporting on the Maori Health Authority and they better have Dr Shane there.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:33pm
  - rouppe
    
    The evidence is pretty clear.
    
    In 2017, waiting lists were shorter, and surgery was usually done within six months. An unusual wait at ED was 3 or 4 hours.
    
    Today waiting lists are longer, and you can be waiting years before getting the required operation. The wait is so long that patients are being phoned to make sure they haven’t died in the meantime. Waits in ED are now often 24 hours.
    
    Health professionals are saying wait times are because of staff shortages. How did those staff shortages (if that’s true) occur? Didn’t Health New Zealand lay off staff that weren’t vaccinated? Didn’t Health New Zealand spend hundreds of millions on the Te Whatu Ora and Maori Health Authority changes, new cars and office space, rather than spend that money on surgical and health outcomes?
    
    How much more evidence do you need?
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:52pm
    - rockape
      
      If there are not enough staff to deal with the patient load there are staff shortages. In my local ED they were established for 80 patients a day. They are understaffed by about 10 nurses or 12.5% and the patient load has gone up to around a 100 a day and on a bad day ( most weekends ) can go up to 120. Is it any surprise there are waits. Many patients can [can’t – mod.] register with, or can an appointment with a GP so their only option is ED.
      
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      July 2, 2023 1:15pm
    - Prince
      
      In 2017 Labour claimed (lied) about shit running down hospital walls.
      In 2023 the (bull)shit is running from the Minister’s mouth.
      
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      July 2, 2023 1:25pm
      - kowtow
        
        A veritable river of filth.
        
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        July 2, 2023 2:51pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Labour’s polytechnic mega-merger Te Pukenga is another example. Sure, Tinetti has been thrown a hospital pass by Te Pukenga’s architect, Chris Hipkins. But she’s not across the detail at all.
  
  Conversely National’s Tertiary Education spokeswoman is Penny Simmonds, for 21 years the CEO of arguably the most successful tertiary institution in the country, Southland Institute of Technology. She has a wealth of knowledge of the sector, knows everyone involved, and knows what is needed, and it’s NOT Te Pukenga. If National wins in October, Te Pukenga will be disestablished before Christmas, and few will mourn its passing.
  
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  July 2, 2023 12:25pm
  - rockape
    
    Christmas would be a big call but it will happen.
    
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    July 2, 2023 12:42pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Jeez it’s only a 3 year term! For what we pay these MPs I expect them to be revoking, amending and replacing Labour shit for all of the 80 hrs a week they all reckon they work!!
      
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      July 2, 2023 3:15pm
      - AitchW
        
        They’ll need to, and the hugely enlarged public service they inherit will have to actually work bloody hard to implement the myriad of changes that need to be made.
        
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        July 2, 2023 4:28pm
Tony Stuart

How about Shane van Gisbergen then. Flew to the US at the weekend, and hopped in a NASCAR for the first time on Monday US time at Charlotte, North Carolina, for a brief test session. The team heads to Chicago for a street race, and after a couple of practice sessions in a car where he is sitting on the “wrong” side, where the aerodynamics and downforce are completely different to a Supercar, and he qualifies in P3 against NASCAR’s best.

Sure, the race in a full field will be a different test, but there are no words to describe just how good hos qualifying effort was. Enjoy the rest of his season in Australia, because I doubt he’s going to race there much longer.
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July 2, 2023 12:16pm
I remember when

Rongoa Maori:
It’s the third anniversary of ACC offering it as an option, so how is it going?
* To date 152 practitioners, from Kaitaia to Stewart Island, have delivered 37,800 sessions for 5157 clients.
* More than 22,000 sessions in year to May, 2023.
* In year to May, 2023, the number of providors has increased by 40%.
* One-third of those accessing rongoa sessions are sexual violence survivors.
* 40% of claims are by Non-Maori.
* It includes mirmiri and romiromi (bodywork), whitiwhiti (support and advice) and karakia (prayer).
* In 2015 Maori were 25% less likely to make a claim.
This is improving and they are now only 18% less likely.
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July 2, 2023 12:34pm
ClanMcleod

We’ve all come across those apparent ‘quotes’ on the internet, apparently from long dead scholars and philosophers among others.
Of course, when you think about this logically, it is impossible to know for sure who can be attributed to these comments first. Prior to the ability to record voice, it is impossible to know for sure if someone actually said something or not.

This is a highly readable and interesting post from James Delingpole on the topic.

‘Only the dead have seen the end of war’ – Plato

I BECAME aware of this marvellous quotation – so wise, pithy and dark – on one of my frequent trips to the Imperial War Museum. It’s one of a series inscribed on the wall beside the ramp leading down to the World War I/trench section. Another of my favourites is attributed to Thucydides: ‘There were great numbers of young men who had never been in a war and were consequently far from unwilling to join in this one.’

The Plato quote is so good it has been used many times since, inter alia by General Douglas MacArthur in a speech at West Point in 1962, as an aphorism apparently oft-cited by grunts in the ’Nam, and by Ridley Scott in Black Hawk Down. But the quote is fake. Or at least its attribution is.

Check it out here.

https://dailysceptic.org/2023/06/29/how-we-know-covid-really-did-suppress-flu-and-why-its-important/
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July 2, 2023 12:36pm
Bridgenag

“In New Zealand (and elsewhere, including France), not one but one hundred extra people are dying each week, but our politicians are deliberately looking the other way, and even claiming it is not happening. As a result, there is a curious sense of unreality affecting everyone. Many still argue our voting choices later this year could avert an impending disaster, but in actual fact, it has already arrived.”

https://hatchardreport.com/on-the-brink-of-biotechnology/“
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July 2, 2023 12:58pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  People couldn’t do the math during covid, you think they can magically do the math now?
  
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  July 2, 2023 3:08pm
kevn

@Bridgenag… What an astoundingly factual, plain speaking article.
Thank you.
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July 2, 2023 1:27pm
Ghost

Whitehouse has released a plan to cool the planet….

CONGRESSIONALLY MANDATED RESEARCH PLAN AND AN INITIAL RESEARCH GOVERNANCE FRAMEWORK RELATED TO SOLAR RADIATION MODIFICATION
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July 2, 2023 3:14pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Governments. A far greater threat to humanity than any gentle warming that might have occurred after a century’s worth of burning fossil fuels (that has improved all of our lives immensely).
  
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  July 2, 2023 6:43pm
cmm

Verrall has announced a bump of 130 nurses having fast tracked training.

Sounds great doesn’t it? There can’t be a catch can there?

But here’s the real problem: The reason these people are on the waiting list is that there is no space for them in the system.

That’s because it takes senior nurses to take time out of their busy days to supervise these nursing students.

Nursing students are a drag on the system for a long time before they actually provide a nett gain. Throwing 130 extra students into the mix is going to add more work to trained nurses and increase stress levels and increase the number leaving.

The way forward is to reduce the workload on senior nurses. One way to do so is to bring back nurse aides to help out doing some of the tasks nurses have been forced to pick up (eg. bed making).

Of course, student nurses could be put into these nurse aide roles, but then they’re no longer doing what they need for learning.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/health-minister-ayesha-verrall-announces-extra-nurses-will-start-studying-earlier/UB3ZI6XEOFFO5J5LNW4BYSU6YI/
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July 2, 2023 3:32pm
- rockape
  
  Most hospitals have a limit on the number of new nurses they can employ each year for that very reason. It’s likely many of these new nurses will go into Low paid jobs in elder care.
  
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  July 2, 2023 4:21pm
- surfing
  
  Verall was simply awful on the TV1 news last night.
  
  This government talks up failures like they are successes that just need more time.
  
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  July 2, 2023 5:20pm
KKKKatee

I understand from a NZ Post employer there was a rush on ruc’s last week. Some people may have purchased outside the normal parameters. It’ll be interesting to see if such action is picked up.
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July 2, 2023 3:52pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Well, of course there were
  
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  July 2, 2023 8:20pm
Benedict Yu

The Greens are insane. I’m lost for words. Which is rare.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/132464640/landlords-attack-logic-of-greens-proposed-3-cap-on-rent-rises
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July 2, 2023 3:56pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  OK I have found some words.
  
  Many landlords will sell up.
  
  Those who do not will not be able to price in any risk into their rents. Coupled with falling supply, the only people who will be able to get rentals will be those who are absolutely rock solid. Anyone slightly marginal will be homeless.
  
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  July 2, 2023 4:04pm
  - rouppe
    
    Have you factored in the possibility that the Greens will simply remove your right to not rent your rental property?
    
    You know their view on private property rights
    
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    July 2, 2023 4:26pm
  - artemisia
    
    That will be no problem BY. Though there might be a bridge-living interlude while the Greens fulfill their other promise, social housing waiting list goneburger in 5 years.
    
    Easy, just need to ramp up tax revenue to pay for it. Wonder if the Green Party noticed that California’s tax revenues have changed from a $100billion surplus to a $23billion deficit, along with a big drop in population. Probably not the homeless leaving.
    
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    July 2, 2023 4:59pm
  - surfing
    
    Who will the landlord sell to?
    
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    July 2, 2023 5:22pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      If the Greens implemented their policy, many landlords would sell up. Difficult to determine the numbers. I’m guessing 20 percent, especially the highly geared. Prices of housing would be depressed. They would sell to owner-occupiers. However the average numbers of occupiers of owned houses is less than for rentals. (Makes sense – many rentals are a ‘flat mate’ arrangement. So a house with 3 flatmates renting could be sold to a couple.) That means a net increase in homelessness.
      
      There will also be many owners who will switch out to AirBnb. Depending on the property and the location.
      
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      July 2, 2023 5:52pm
    - artemisia
      
      Good point, but there are always buyers at a price. And that price may well be a serious profit, especially if held for a good while or developers are interested. And hassles, costs and compliance don’t come free anyway.
      
      And as skilled immigration increases many will look to buy.
      
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      July 2, 2023 6:00pm
    - rockape
      
      Cashed up immigrants would be my bet.
      
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      July 2, 2023 8:07pm
- rouppe
  
  I read in one of those articles that Marama Davidson was a renter. She seems to have a remarkably stable tenancy…
  
  Has anyone traced the ownership of her property to see where that leads? Family members? Maori Trust? Family Trust?
  
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  July 2, 2023 5:21pm
Tauhei Notts

I have just read an analysis of Hipkins’ visit to China. It was written by Mr Timur Fomenko. His essay was headed “The wonky eye of the five eyes”.
He is very complimentary about the way Hipkins handled himself. The article suggests that our country is in good hands. The numerous monumental stuff ups by members of Hipkins’ cabinet do not get a mention.
I’ve been thinking; Foreign Affairs should have been Hipkins from 2017. Particularly as he does not have a QR code on his chin. Also, in foreign affairs he would been unable to stuff up three other portfolios he has made a mess of.
Praise for Hipkins on this site is rare, and this is the first time I’ve read how he has done some good.
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July 2, 2023 4:05pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes I also got the impression it was a successful visit.
  
  In contrast Mahuta is not well received. She has completely the wrong temperament to successfully deal with the Chinese. Her talk of a “Treaty centric” foreign policy will mean nothing to them.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/nanaia-mahuta-received-dressing-down-from-chinese-foreign-minister-reports/QLPJDQEJ5JEQJLQT4UMA7E6M4Q/
  
  Also, we cannot change Chinese culture. In China, tattoos, especially facial tattoos are associated with very bad people.
  
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  July 2, 2023 4:24pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Looks like the dragon did not like the taniwha after all
    
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    July 2, 2023 8:22pm
rouppe

When I read this, all I could think of is that it looked remarkably similar to the graphs Jacinda held up at the start of the covid response.

“80,000 could die”, and if you do this we’ll save”thousands” of lives.
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July 2, 2023 4:21pm
- Ghost
  
  Timaru council went through all the rubbish the govt supplied on 3 water and showed that despite the lies from the govt it was going to increase water costs substantially.
  
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  July 2, 2023 4:24pm
KKKKatee

We recently moved into a new neighbourhood. Neighbours on our western boundary are in their 80’s. They stay strictly indoors apart from needing to go grocery shopping. They are masked up in their car. They have nothing to do with neighbours for fear of catching Covid. The thing is, they spent their first 80 years on the planet maskless, now they’re scared to go anywhere without it. You can bet your boots they’re jabbed to hell as well. How sad to spend one’s last years living in self-imposed solitary confinement.
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July 2, 2023 5:23pm
- [email protected]
  
  That’s really sad to hear that this couple has been petrified to go out for fear of catching Covid19.
  
  The 74 year old wife started feeling poorly last Monday and tested positive for Covid19 Wednesday. My 75 year old body was feeling OK but also returned a positive RAT test Wednesday.
  
  Today the wife is back to normal and most of my recently developed symptoms are gone.
  
  We’re eager to go back to a normal life ASAP.
  
  Still trying to determine when we can stop self isolating. There is a lot of conflicting information out there. Anyone medically knowledgeable who cares to comment- please do.
  
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  July 2, 2023 6:24pm
  - Marmite
    
    https://covid19.govt.nz/testing-and-isolation/if-you-have-covid-19/how-to-self-isolate/
    
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    July 2, 2023 11:43pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  Most of you did the same for 2 years straight. Now you want to mock the people who do it for an extra year or two.
  The mocking was only useful during covid.
  
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  July 2, 2023 6:45pm
  - KKKKatee
    
    I didn’t. Went maskless everywhere. We have a business. Didn’t insist on v passes or masking at all. Staff were behind Perspex screens masked to buggery (their choice) . Then they’d go off to morning tea etc congregate & take mask off. Then back at work stations masked up content to breathe in their own CO2 for hours on end. Madness.
    
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    July 3, 2023 8:14am
Benedict Yu

Pretty amazing. West Indies has failed to qualify for the Cricket World Cup in October.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/scotland-vs-west-indies-how-west-indies-botched-their-odi-world-cup-chances-1385211
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July 2, 2023 6:08pm
Marmite

Mod Sorry didn’t mean to click on Report. Was trying for Reply

[Mod – don’t worry about it]
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July 2, 2023 11:44pm
stewmar

So thirty police in attendance for 5 scumbags on a roof over the weekend and they can’t even send one police to attend to a thief that 4 tradies have apprehended. What a disgraceful little back water country we have become.
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July 3, 2023 9:16am

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