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August 27, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 August 2023

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General Debate

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CJames

If you want an example of why most of the country’s functions should be done regionally (like in a federal state), not centralised in Wellington, look no further than electricity supply on the West Coast. The decisions made so far, or lack thereof, show why the blob isn’t competent to run a bath, let alone a nation.

To quote the Transpower grid planning report: “The West Coast region is connected to the National Grid via one 220/110 kV interconnecting transformer at Kikiwa (with another one on standby) and two 66 kV circuits from Coleridge. The 220/110 kV interconnection at Kikiwa effectively operates in parallel with an equivalent transformer at Stoke (in the Nelson-Marlborough region). Because of this we consider them together when assessing transmission needs into the region. The amount of generation in the West Coast and Nelson-Marlborough regions, combined, is much less than their combined demand. Significant imports are required, most of which is supplied from remote generation in the Waitaki Valley, with significant load off take in the South Canterbury and Canterbury regions”.

So they are short of power and it has to come all the way from Benmore via Islington and the substation at Nelson Lakes ,then down the Buller Gorge or by a couple of small lines across Arthurs’ Pass. Peak demand is 50MW, expected to grow to 90MW, and the existing micro-hydro stations there can only supply 36MW. It is less than this a lot of the time as the schemes are run of the river and have no storage. If it stops raining, the lights go out. To add to this insecurity, there is only a single circuit down from Hokitika to supply South Westland. Even that stops about Fox Glacier. Haast is on its own micro-grid.

All the power lines go through rugged terrain, often with native bush around and underneath them. They need helicopters to fault find and service them. That means the power supply is very susceptible to even just bad weather, let alone a natural disaster. Why most locals have a standby generator.

The West Coasters recognise this and want to have more local generation. There are plans for hydros at Waitaha River and Griffin Creek, as well as increasing the capacity of the Haast scheme. Almost everyone on the West Coast supports this expansion. That included the regional council, iwi and the local DoC. They know how critical a stable and reliable electricity supply is. They want to be self-sufficient, plus have more resilience. No government money needed. The schemes were well off the beaten track, not visible to anyone on the highways which is the way almost all travel is done there. If you want to see what they look like, find Turnbull River power house on Google Earth. Unless you zoom in enough to see the colour of cars, you won’t know it’s there. However, because schemes’ locations are in part of the DoC estate, they need permission from Wellington.

The Ministers said no. Pressure from outdoor recreation advocacy groups supported by government departments killed the plans. A very small number of out-of-district people use the areas for recreation. They want no development to occur. They want to continue to talk about enjoying it, but almost all their members never go there. If they do, it is only once to tick off that item on their list. To add insult to injury, on the Waitaha, the one or two groups a year who canoe the river can only get access in by helicopter. A real lack of self-awareness but that doesn’t trouble them.

The upshot is the security and livelihood of maybe 20,000 people is at risk because maybe 50 outsiders a year can’t use it as an adventure playground. It also makes a mockery of the Net Zero plans. Standby generators don’t run on wind or solar.

That is why decisions should be taken away from Wellington. Everyone in the bureaucracy, including the politicians, mouths off platitudes about helping communities but will actively hinder self-suffiency. There would be a risk that the people would realise that they don’t need the blob to run their lives. And virtue signalling is a lot more important than fixing problems.
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August 27, 2023 8:00am
- kowtow
  
  Perhaps Coasters have only themselves to blame ,being so proudly Red.
  
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  August 27, 2023 8:10am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    #NotAllCoasters
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:04am
  - gravedodger
    
    That is both historical and hysterical KT, the real West Coast has got over the miner dominance and wants to progress. They see extraction of wealth from the ground, farming and tourism are the future.
    It is the daft melon thinkers in the sunny climes of West Nelson who create O’Connors majority? They oppose farming, tourism and extraction
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:25am
    - kowtow
      
      Hysterical ?
      
      West Coast was very red before the Nelson hippies were amalgamated into it.
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:50am
      - CJames
        
        Labour wasn’t then the party that it is now, and Paddy Blanchfield’s personal views were akin to Gengis Khan’s.
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:02pm
    - Paulus
      
      Doesn’t O’Connor own a farm that is managed by his brother currently ?
      
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      August 27, 2023 1:35pm
  - CJames
    
    I think the southern half of West Coast is strongly National (big industry there is dairy) and even the old coalmining regions about neutral. Remember West Coast electorate includes a lot of Nelson region, where the current MP lives.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:26am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  I presume the Ministers were for Environment and Conservation. Assuming Ministers hadn’t intervened, it is almost certain that any consent by the local councils would have still gone to the Environment Court. The Court would necessarily consider wider issues. The Court might have approved the two power projects in question or placed additional requirements on their design. Maybe there will be a second opportunity with the likely change of government.
  There are reasons why Councils should not have untrammelled powers immune from any review. There have been numerous occasions where various Councils fail to look at wider issues or are too parochial.
  For instance, one of the many failings of the Tauranga City Council was that they simply weren’t up to the job of planning for a city that within 30 years is likely to have 300,000 people. Tauranga has way fewer civic amenities than any other city in NZ of comparable size. The Councillors were still operating as if Tauranga was a city of 100,000 people or less. I visit the city regularly, and the city centre is a shambles. It is so because works that should have been started a decade ago was all left to mount up, so it has had to be done by the Commissioners all at once. Fortunately the main work on the roads is about to be finished. I note a new civic centre is about to built that will be appropriate for the next 50 years.
  
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  August 27, 2023 8:28am
  - Matt Long
    
    Does Tauranga lack the facilities for the NZSO to play for a handful of enthusiasts?
    Let’s grab another few billion of rate payer funds to make that happen.
    
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    August 27, 2023 8:47am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      In fact the Civic Centre will cost $300 million. Entirely appropriate for a city that will have 300,000 people within 30 years. So yes, I support the decision by Commissioner Ann Tolley.
      
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      August 27, 2023 8:58am
      - imalwaysright
        
        $300,000,000 for a civic centre!
        
        Probably end up at $500,000,000.
        
        They could build a 70,000 seat stadium for that and have enough for a roof.
        
        New Zealand is a bizarre country .
        
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        August 27, 2023 9:51am
      - Don Beckett
        
        I agree to a large extent with your comment Wayne. One of the issues now is that the commissioners have ramped up rates over the last 3 years, that many pensioners like myself struggle to pay them – especially if you have a mortgage – & this helps drive up house prices. I know a few who have decided to take advantage of the high price, sell up & move away from Tauranga.
        
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        August 27, 2023 9:54am
      - RoboRob
        
        I know NOTHING about this project but I would be happy to place a bet that the price is nothing like 300m. Thats the ‘council selling price’. Sell the plebs that whilst expensive this is an affordable project. Within 6mth of the project being accepted, the real dev price will emerge, in this case I imagine 340 – 380m. The council then ‘sells’ this as unfortunate and expensive ‘but you know people want it’.
        
        The project begins and the dev whacks on another 50m in ‘unforeseen’ expenses (you know like construction price rises).
        
        Then you get the final, overruns to push it over the line, probably another 20m in this case.
        
        My guess is, all up this
        360m
        +50
        +20
        so ~$430m all up
        
        The council knows this, the dev knows this but they know they couldn’t ‘sell it’ at $430m.
        
        Also, if the population will be 300,000 in 30yrs, seems a bit premature to be building it now !
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:16am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Really? The capital cost of the Christchurch is $683 million. 30,000 seats. Plus permanent ongoing operating losses that need to be funded.
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:37am
      - David Garrett
        
        Ann Tolley!! This is the woman who thought that to get a “helicopter view”of schools you actually had to charter a helicopter and fly over some!
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:44am
      - Cassandra
        
        It’s in the wrong place! This fetish by local bodies for prime real estate is dopey qv Auckland’s Watercare in Newmarket. Tauranga’s city officials – accountants and engineers – do not need to be occupying the most expensive real estate in town.
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:46am
      - cmm
        
        DG please, please, please tell me you are making that up!
        Unfortunately you likely are not.
        
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        August 27, 2023 11:12am
      - David Garrett
        
        cmm: Sadly No; it is apparently true. I remember her being mocked in the House about it, and she didn’t deny it.
        
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        August 27, 2023 11:45am
      - Paulus
        
        As a Tauranga ratepayer the unelected Mahuta Commissioners have made a disgraceful mess of what was a nice City.
        It is one large bombsite with destruction going over the place most of it to the wishes of the 1000 plus Council staff with their new huge Council offices along with our ew Cultural Centre.
        I will not tell you who will run that.
        The main roads are undrivable as Cycles ways are built for no cyclists.
        Parking is virtually verboten so many small business have left orjust shut down as there is no longer anywhere to park.
        It is a disgrace by the Commissioners.
        
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        August 27, 2023 1:43pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        Ben Y
        $300,000,000 isn’t the reference point .
        $1 is.
        
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        August 27, 2023 4:27pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      The largest town in the province here has a population of 28,500. The rest of the region is sparsely populated with a few satellite rural towns/townships.
      There is a large-ish rather flash theatre here.
      A big new state-of-the-art library which encompasses an upmarket art gallery.
      New sports centre and redeveloped rugby ground.
      Indoor swimming pool and stadium.
      Plus all sorts of smaller galleries, parks and sports facilities.
      All paid for (or semi paid for) off a small rating base and sponsorships…….
      
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      August 27, 2023 9:28am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Blenheim / Marlborough is a nice part of the country.
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:56am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Ditto Levin
        
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        August 27, 2023 5:52pm
  - CJames
    
    Wayne
    The decision went through both District and Regional Council. The objections came from outside the region. It wasn’t going to be built with Council money. That is quite a different situation to what you describe for Tauranga.
    From a Spinoff article on it.
    “The government has made an important decision to not allow a West Coast hydro power scheme to go ahead. Stuff reports environment minister David Parker declined the application for the scheme across the Waitaha River – about 50kms south of Hokitika – on the grounds that it would have impacted the natural character and intrinsic value of the area, along with the enjoyment people have of it. The area around the Waitaha is almost entirely untouched by human activity, which makes it really quite unusual for New Zealand. The dam would have seriously affected the flow of the river, which would have had serious conservation implications.
    
    For many Coasters though, the decision is a blow, reports the ODT. Westpower, a community owned organisation who were going to run the scheme, said it would have provided more than 10,000 households with renewable energy, and given a boost to both regional growth and efforts against climate change. And Westland mayor Bruce Smith was particularly cutting, saying in the Stuff story “it’s just another move by this Government to lock up the West Coast as a playground for others.” Minister Parker said it was not possible under the legislation for his decision to consider economic impacts to the Coast.”
    
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    August 27, 2023 8:50am
    - gravedodger
      
      I thought Waitaha was a diversion through a large elbow that gave a height difference for generation and reduceed the natural flows of a bit of wild water a very few White Water enthusiasts ever used.
      “Dominance of a Minority”, I wonder if the Idiot Parker ever visited the place?
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:01am
      - CJames
        
        It was going to be a weir controlled diversion from above Morgan Gorge down a pipe in an access tunnel to a power house out on the cattle grazed flats where it discharged back to the river. Maybe 10km inland from SH6. Only “road” access is farm tracks. The area is used by committed trampers and hunters.
        The proposed schere is not that different from other small schemes like on Mangapehi river on the shortcut between Kopaki and Eight Mile Junction.
        Parker wouldn’t go anywhere near there. Has he ever been to the West Coast? He’d be forced to meet real New Zealanders.
        
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        August 27, 2023 11:51am
  - CJames
    
    For what it’s worth National in 2019 said the scheme would get approval.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/environment/403885/national-promises-to-back-waitaha-hydro-power-scheme-if-elected.
    The schemes the Minister said were approved but not built were shelved because they were too expensive and were threatened with court cases.
    
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    August 27, 2023 8:58am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    I heard the Tauranga needs more civic amenities argument before, typically from developers wishing to benefit from ratepayers money.
    
    Tauranga has been the fastest growing NZ city for decades without a financially burdensome museum.
    
    Why? People move to Tauranga for the beachside environment and for the most sunlight hours in NZ.
    
    The corruption of Tauranga by developers has meant that instead of building a motorway to Auckland and reaping the financial benefits Hamiltonians have, Tauranga Cpuncil recommended NZTA build a motorway to TePuke?
    
    There is a lack of commercial land in Tauranga and despite proximity to the Port, Tauranga hasn’t been able to attract large money producing export businesses which is why Tauranga has an extraordinarily low average income
    
    I cant see how a museum and a new expensive civic building will fix Tauranga’s real problems?
    
    Perhaps Tauranga Council /commissioners could start with effective town planning, creating a low rates business friendly environment, planning and building efficient transport links to Hamilton and Auckland, and a reduction of rayepayers expenditure on civic amenities which do not and will not provide benefit to 98% of Tauranga residents.
    
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    August 27, 2023 9:02am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Most of what you say is correct, bar the comment about the Council recommending a motorway to Te Puke. The Tauranga Eastern Link, started and completed (ahead of time and under budget) by the National-led government, specifically Stephen Joyce, is actually a bypass around Te Puke and cuts it out altogether.
      
      It’s greatly improved the travel experience, and travel times, from Tauranga to the Eastern BoP, especially Rotorua, Whakatane and Opotiki.
      
      You’re bang on about the motorway to Hamilton and Auckland though. Badly needed, and will cement Tauranga’s position in the Golden triangle.
      
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      August 27, 2023 10:10am
      - oldfella
        
        As long as the motorway to Hamilton includes a multi-lane road tunnel through the Kaimais. Probably won’t happen in my lifetime, but it has to happen.
        
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        August 27, 2023 11:50am
    - Paulus
      
      And Council Staff of over 1,000 many earning enormous salaries plus many sub contractors ex Council employees.
      Tauranga is now a very sad and disgraceful city run by unelected Mahuta Appointees as Commissioners.
      
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      August 27, 2023 2:07pm
  - cmm
    
    Wayne, this really has the smell of nanny knows best.
    
    I have never been to Tauranga so I don’t have an opinion of whether it is a shambles or not.
    
    But I have been to Wellington and it is a shambles. Why should a bunch of wellingtonian beurocrats project their incompetence onto others?
    
    I won’t take health advice from a 150kg slob with a fag in their mouth. Before Wellington comes to “help” it should first demonstrate it is competent by becoming a shining beacon.
    PS without helping itself to the taxpayers’ purses.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:08am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      ‘I won’t take health advice from a 150kg slob with a fag in their mouth’
      
      There’s no need to refer to the Deputy PM in this way.
      
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      August 27, 2023 2:31pm
  - Cassandra
    
    I live in Tauranga. It is outrageous that we do not have an elected City Council and that an appointed commissioner should be making these far reaching decisions. How the civic centre will enhance the downtown is mystifying. Tauranga’s problem is that half its shopping is at the Mount and Papamoa has mushroomed without the necessary connecting roads. Putting bike paths on Cameron Road will be really handy//. Having Buddy Mikaere calling any shots is a disgrace. The last Mayor wanted to run things like an Army officer – dismantling democracy to allow all this has been another disgrace. Dr Mapp knows as much about Tauranga as I do about Takapuna which I have visited dozens of times. So?
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:41am
    - cmm
      
      I agree 100%. An appointed commissioner/commisar should only be there for the briefest possible period to reestablish governance.
      They should be making as few long-term decisions as possible.
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:16am
      - Paulus
        
        Too Late, as the Commissioners will be gone next year and the long term damage has been done.
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:09pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I built in Papamoa Beach when it was simply called Papamoa. In fact, our house has changed suburbs twice without moving a millimeter. They are putting more connecting roads in, but they’re not fully joined up to make a decent roading network, and the focus now seems to be on expensive cycle lanes, for example most of Pap Beach Rd east of Domain Road has had what appears to be a nice wide path for cyclists and pedestrians, which will be almost entirely ignored by cyclists. In the meantime, the roads are falling to pieces and potholes go unrepaired for months.
      
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      August 27, 2023 2:13pm
- Jack5
  
  With Alpine Fault due, or overdue to crack, how do West Coast hydro schemes stack up with:
  
  1. Power across the Divide susceptibility to being cut?
  
  2. Hydro dams in quakes?
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:08am
  - CJames
    
    The power across the divide is a real risk, especially as the epicentre is likely to be from just south of Arthurs Pass to Hamner.
    The hydro schemes don’t have dams. They have a weir maybe a metre high that the river flows over. A channel in the side bank upstream of the weir, leading to an intake . From there, pipelines (often buried) down to the powerhouse.
    The hydros are all equipped with governors so they only generate what is being used.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:23am
  - cmm
    
    The crack is well defined. Likely a powerline crossing it would be brok3n, but that can probably be fixed quite quickly.
    
    As for being “overdue” that is not really how these work. The Coleridge, then Darfield, then Chch, then Kaikoura quake sequence has provided a different stress relief path to take pressure off the main Alpine fault.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:23am
    - CJames
      
      cmm
      If the Alpine Fault goes, it will take a lot of other things with it as secondary effects. Not directly by breaks across the fault line but by slips and the like. That will block roads and dam rivers. Look at the one that dammed the Buller near Lyell in 1967. That is what you are dealing with.
      These will need to be cleared before crews can get access. And who would want to work downstream of a slip dam across a river?
      
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      August 27, 2023 12:00pm
- oldpark
  
  @CJames @ 8.00am
  
  Who ever owns this lot is debatable,Do know for sure who owns the Wellington Power Company .
  It was sold by Labour Government in 2008 with Michael Cullen leading the charge .
  His comments “it was not a strategic asset:
  The new owner who got it for a song .Was a Chinese Company based in Hong Kong .Go figure that type of decision.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:11am
  - CJames
    
    Westpower is owned by a West Coast community trust based in Greymouth. Would have taken you about 10 seconds on Google to find that out. So rest of your comment a red herring.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:29am
  - gravedodger
    
    I do not think Michael Cullen died in abject poverty either?
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:05am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He had about 30 houses, he died a RIVH PRICK.
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:51am
      - SoloView
        
        @ G the giant
        Was this the Michael Cullen who headed the Tax Working Group that recommended Capital Gains Tax on amongst other things houses?
        
        Would seem like a bit of an end goal if he owned “about 30 houses”
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:09pm
      - cmm
        
        Solo, if you own 30 houses, then so what if you lose 10 of them. You wouldn’t feel it.
        He would have d9ne that to kick the people lower down the ladder in the nuts.
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:40pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Devolution is strongly positive in our world – hand decisions over use of local resources, farming, forestry, rivers, lakes, mining to locals. Far off up-themselves urbanites who bear no financial cost should have no stake in decisions over use of land or other resources in places that most of them never even drive though once in a lifetime.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:40am
  - Taieri
    
    Devolution is strongly positive in our world – hand decisions over use of local resources, farming, forestry, rivers, lakes, mining to locals.
    ———–
    
    It can be positive. But often it isn’t. A case in point, the Otago Regional Council currently building itself a palace costed so far at $54.5 million. As recently as February this year this cost was quoted as $45 million. What will be the final price? We’ll see…
    This is to accommodate a local government entity, the recent laureate of the Jonesie Waste Award 2023 awarded for spending $2.76 million and 26000 hours to capture 18 wallabies, employing about 300 staff all over Otago.
    Is this positive? By all means, although not necessarily from the perspective of this ratepayer.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:21am
  - CJames
    
    Remember how a native forest on the West Coast was knocked over in a big storm and they weren’t allowed to salvage good timber for furniture and the like because of Wellington and the Greens? They haven’t forgotten that.
    
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    August 27, 2023 12:10pm
Chuck Bird

Megyn Kelly BLASTS Biden’s trans health secretary over bizarre gender clinic demand | ‘He’s a man!’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRPPBKboXz4
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August 27, 2023 8:03am
- Matt Long
  
  The people who have so called gender affirming cosmetic operations, after one year are satisfied, after ten years for male to female operations have a suicide rate 18 times the general population, and for female to male it’s 40 times.
  https://youtube.com/shorts/1UdQo4gkEJw?si=kPGbsmriiRNgZRHI
  
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  August 27, 2023 8:55am
  - Scott
    
    Thanks for posting this Matt. The fact is that a man cannot become a woman and a woman cannot become a man.
    
    Men produce sperm. Women produce eggs.
    
    The whole trans thing is demonic in my opinion.
    
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    August 27, 2023 9:17am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Male snd female have different chromosomal make up, it can’t be changed with titty pills
      
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      August 27, 2023 9:58am
      - Close Hen Counters
        
        No pill will ever make a bloke womansplain as well as a woman can 😉
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:10pm
    - Taieri
      
      The fact is that a man cannot become a woman and a woman cannot become a man.
      ————
      
      This is the most transphobic (and bordering on the genocidal) comment I’ve seen so far this morning. Very likely it’s also racist and white-supremacist. Trans-women are women!
      Or so they say…
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:25am
      - I remember when
        
        Mind you they said the covid vaccination was safe and effective.
        Or so they said.
        
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        August 27, 2023 1:38pm
  - rjay
    
    For those interested in the study quoted, this link will take you there
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/
    
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    August 27, 2023 9:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Gender rubbish is a mental condition and should be treated as such.
    
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    August 27, 2023 9:54am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Who is on deck for the downticking today?
      Childish.
      
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      August 27, 2023 10:01am
    - mawm
      
      Of course it’s a mental condition and that is probably the reason many commit suicide.
      
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      August 27, 2023 6:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Meygyn Kelly, she sure is something else. I listen to her a lot.
  No stranger to swearing either. Tried to stop swearing for Lent. It a was a disaster!
  Here she is on Fauci possibly subpoenaed:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4_gU8c0a3Y
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:00am
  - Notsofast
    
    She has become an absolutist on pronouns. Everyone who studies this simple ideology enough understands that pronouns and social transitioning in schools has at least two certain outcomes, among others.
    
    Healthy gay youth are being sterilized and mutilated by mistake, and the medical and pharmaceutical industries are laughing all the way to the bank.
    
    Unfortunately they all voted for the fake conversion therapy law, and this is very difficult to reverse.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:30am
Bridgenag

We will be following along with this nonsense

USDA is not your friend
“I’m with the government, and I am here to help”: WEF, Big Ag and Corporate food processors

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/usda-is-not-your-friend?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 27, 2023 8:07am
Yvette

The Maori Monarch …

Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi has called for the Government to formally recognise the mana and status of the Māori King, Kīngi Tuheitia. …
He said he wanted the Māori King to receive the “keys to the country” and to enjoy the same diplomatic rights that King Charles has as a sovereign in the UK and during visits to Aotearoa New Zealand.
… When asked about Waititi’s call, Prime Minister Chris Hipkins said he was seeking advice on whether a formal or constitutional role for Kīngi Tuheitia could be accommodated by the government.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/diplomatic-status-should-be-given-to-kingi-tuheitia-says-te-pati-maori/GHUUZ2CFY5FVZLEVRU43DNPUO4/#:~:text=When%20asked%20about%20Waititi%27s%20call,a%20Koroneihana%20at%20Tūrangawaewae%20marae.

Will Chris Hipkins be able to advise Rawiri Waititi om the status of the Māori King, Kīngi Tuheitia, before or after the Election?
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August 27, 2023 8:08am
- Rich Prick
  
  “Co-governance” was the thin end of the wedge, let’s not see where this takes us. It needs to be stopped once and for all with our vote in October.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:37am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    “Co-governance” is a euphemism for a Maori ethnostate.
    
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    August 27, 2023 9:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It takes away the one person, one vote by having positions appointed.
      
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      August 27, 2023 10:04am
      - Yvette
        
        It takes away the one person, one vote by having positions appointed
        
        50-50 co-governance means a minority of 17% needs to be multiplied three times to reach 50, while 83%, being the rest of the population, needs to be multiplied by 0.6 to equal 50.
        And three divided by 0.6 gives about five.
        So a minority vote is then worth five, while a non-minority vote is worth only one
        
        Of course to write the obvious: any departure from one person one vote, must give some people a greater or lesser voting power to the others – it can’t possibly be anything but that
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:57am
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        With the latest (extremely accurate and well run) census Yvette the alleged 17% could well be 25%. And based on dna dilution and ethnoincentivisation that minority is just going to keep on growing. The bit at the top of the pyramid scheme won’t change, so the bigger the pyramid the more power and money the elite at the top gain.
        
        When the Maori king said “What’s good for Maori is good for everyone” did he really mean, the crap non-democratic hereditary power structure we use to rule over Maori will be no worse to other people when we rule them than it is currently for the Maori people we rule over?
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:46pm
      - Paulus
        
        Like Tauranga City Council Commissioners, appointed by Mahuta – been a total disgrace.
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:12pm
      - cmm
        
        Whenever I see 50-50 cogovernance I am reminded of the Boer War pies made in sieged Ladysmith. Horses were being slaughtered for food. People didn’t like it, but needs must.
        
        50/50 horse and rabbit pie made with one horse to one rabbit.
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:45pm
      - mawm
        
        cmm – They had rabbits in Ladysmith!
        
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        August 27, 2023 6:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    See http://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:03am
  - leoj
    
    Let’s hope you’re not disappointed when Luxon buckles at the knees the minute he is accused of being racist.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      When called ‘racist’ just turn around and show your back to them. The ultimate insult.
      Korean I think.
      
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      August 27, 2023 10:47am
      - Don Beckett
        
        You could also bare your buttocks – that’s the Maori insult. 😆
        
        11 1
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        August 27, 2023 11:00am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yes Don. Keep them at arms length and they can not touch you.
        
        7 1
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        August 27, 2023 11:29am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He was already called racist, and he simply smiled, he never went off piste and spout crap about Mandala
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:12am
      - kowtow
        
        Dear God , Seymour lives rent free in your head…..
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:01pm
      - Pineapple Lumps
        
        So G you admit your fervour for labour in the past was wrong, so how can you be sure your fervour for National won’t end with the same realisation?
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:49pm
      - mawm
        
        Mandela.
        
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        August 27, 2023 6:15pm
- Gravelroad
  
  The difference is, surely, that the Maori king “rules over” only a minority of tribes – not all Maoridom.
  Whereas, the British Royalty officially “rules over” the whole country, the Commonwealth and citizens equally.
  Who is a Maori king supposed to represent?
  Not me thanks.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:53am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Huntly
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:02am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Who is a Maori king supposed to represent?
    
    Failed truck drivers, I believe.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:03am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Those of us with a Class 5 licence are way ahead of Tūheitia Paki.
      He is King of Tainui.
      
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      August 27, 2023 10:12am
  - cmm
    
    Didn’t you see the statement a few days ago?
    The phrase that means “by Maori for Maori” has now been reinterpreted to mean “by Maori for everyone”.
    That means the Kingi’s wisdom and guidance can now be gifted to everyone. (With the obvious expectation of a reciprocal gift of $).
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:15am
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      I think they have hired Jacindas PR team, it really means:
      
      By the unelected hereditarily entitled Maori ruling class paid for by everyone!
      
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      August 27, 2023 12:52pm
  - rouppe
    
    It all bullshit.
    
    “We own the water” they say. Well back when they were all disparate tribes, did Tainui down in Waikato pay Te Arawa for the water that flowed from Taupo, out of their area?
    
    No they didn’t. So there was no ownership
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:49am
    - I remember when
      
      Which is why the Treaty allows use of and doesn’t make any mention of lakes and rivers.
      
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      August 27, 2023 1:47pm
    - miltonF
      
      That is the whole problem with the treaty of Waitangi. Māori did not have the concept of ownership (property rights). In fact, they did not have any human rights at all. This is precisely why they signed the treaty, to gain human rights and protections under the crown. Māori only had the concept of kāwanatanga, which is a system of complete governance over the land and all inhabitants by divine birth right or military conquest AKA tribal rule by violence.
      
      The English version says Māori will retain ownership of their lands.
      The Māori version says Māori will retain kāwanatanga (governance) of their lands.
      
      Big difference and big mistake.
      
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      August 27, 2023 4:41pm
- Dave
  
  Apparently, not all colonial institutions need to be decolonised.
  
  My very modest support for the British monarch as our nominal head of state is conditional on him mostly staying on the far side of the globe, not intervening in NZ politics, and billing the NZ taxpayer only for infrequent state visits. If not, I’m a republican.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:37am
- Cassandra
  
  The Hereditary Mayor of Huntly. I’d give him diplomatic status alright – Duke of Campbell Island.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:49am
Bridgenag

This BRICS stuff is frightening

SITREP 8/26/23: Wagner Denouement and BRICS Rebirth

https://open.substack.com/pub/simplicius76/p/sitrep-82623-wagner-denouement-and?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 27, 2023 8:08am
- cmm
  
  More than half the world’s population are wriggling out of the control of the USA.
  Good or bad? Time will tell.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:18am
  - Jim
    
    It’s certainly a departure from what we in the West are socialised to, and our immediate reaction is likely defence of the status quo (not in similar to that of an abused child in the hands of a malevolent parent).
    The disparity of reporting between Alternative (grass roots) Media versus that from monopoly Murdoch’s media empire, means I’ll take a healthy punt in BRICS+ being a safety counterbalance to the corrupt centralised power base in the West.
    If you think such a notion is crazy, then watch the first few minutes of this recent speech by Australian Senator John Ruddock, and tell me you still have faith in our benevolent governments and institutions to serve the best interests of your children.
    https://youtu.be/oGTyGNQpBE4?si=HKvugL_ns6mzXfrv
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:50am
igm

Head sleeze merchant on track to maintain PJIF funding for the despicable “Stuff” stable.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/politics/350062012/nationals-factions-zombie-mps-taliban
Without taxpayers’ funding, surely this apology for a media company, would be insolvent.
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August 27, 2023 8:10am
- Burtland
  
  stuff is a propaganda company – someone else is also funding it – the question is who
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:22am
  - cmm
    
    There’s that saying in poker: if you can’t tell who the mark is then it is you.
    Every time a new article shows up on stuff your wallet gets lighter.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:28am
- Gravelroad
  
  I get it that some (probably most) journalists have a bias.
  But there is bias, and then there is a determination to cause actual damage and personal harm with spite.
  This is what this opinion piece by the vindictive Ms Vance represents.
  I put her contribution in the same class as those by Mr/Ms Shaneel Lal – totally unprofessional and a stain on journalistic integrity.
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:00am
- kowtow
  
  Even by $1uffed’s very poor standards , that one is really ,really bad.
  
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  August 27, 2023 12:56pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Classy level of writing from Vance, painting conservative Christians as the Taliban, no issue with journalistic standards here.
  
  KBers name one other group in NZ society where it would be OK to label them as an extreme, terrorist group and for it to be considered appropriate journalistic conduct?
  
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  August 27, 2023 1:00pm
Warren

No one does stupidity like David Seymour Act Party Leader, but if Chris Luxon had the Act echo chamber on here would be rife with comments criticizing his Leadership and calling him out on this same stupidity.
Another question I have concerns Jenna Lynch leading political correspondent for Three News and married to Andrew Ketels, Act Party Chief of Staff always calling out National Leader Chris Luxon for his mistakes but never makes the same sort of comments about David Seymour and his stupidity like we have seen in last couple of weeks.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/david-seymour-responds-after-nelson-mandela-s-grandson-kweku-rips-claim-of-support-apart.html
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August 27, 2023 8:15am
- Ghost
  
  The guy doesn’t know when to shut his mouth. He should not have replied.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:46am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I suggest it’s all going to Seymour’s head, I see he is responding to favour the mandala sh as makes after his grandson said no, no wonder he is starting to let Peters in the back door
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:02am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    I agree, the Mandela comment was absolutely stupid and unnecessary.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:27am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Yet he doubled down and tried to explain
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:54am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    I put this in Google translate and it still couldn’t make sense of it.
    
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    August 27, 2023 1:04pm
- Che Guava
  
  This Mandela worship is quite misplaced. Mandela is on the level of an Obama in that he is a symbol of anti-Whiteness dressed up as some crusader for Black people. Look at South Africa now and tell me Mandela’s “victories” were, on balance, a benefit to all South Africans, as you would have expected given that, to quote Seymour, “”Nelson Mandela said that all people are born equal, with each entitled in equal measure to life, liberty, prosperity, human rights, and good governance.”
  
  Here is a good insight into the reality of Nelson Mandela behind the public image.
  
  https://plaintruthmagazine.blogspot.com/2010/07/crimes-of-terrorist-nelson-mandela.html
  
  “The fact is that even Amnesty International refused to take on Nelson Mandela’s case because they asserted that he was no political prisoner but had committed numerous violent crimes and had had a fair trial and a reasonable sentence.
  
  Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. He had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists.
  
  South African President P.W. Botha had, on a number of occasions, offered Nelson Mandela freedom from prison, if he would only renounce terrorist violence. This Mandela refused to do.”
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:17am
  - Taieri
    
    Here is a good insight into the reality of Nelson Mandela behind the public image.
    ————-
    
    Mandela of 1962, when he was sentenced was not necessarily Mandela of 1994, when he became the president of SA. There’s 27 years of prison in between. Perhaps someone with the SA background and active on this blog would like to expand on this?
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:31am
    - cmm
      
      During that period Mandela wised up a bit, including getting a law degree in prison (his name was read out at the graduation ceremony, but he did not attend).
      
      The wheels fell off Mandela’s commie bus in 1989 with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the obvious crumbling of the USSR which took 2 years to dissolve completely.
      
      Mandela realized his commie mates were no longer coming to help him out and he would need to re-image himself to be more acceptable to Western backers.
      
      Negotiations between Mandela and the SA govt had started in the early 1980s (if not the 70s), but Mandela held out for more and more. He didn’t just want the dismantling of apartheid – he wanted power and wealth.
      
      Likely if the USSR had not collapsed, the conflicts would have continued for longer.
      
      I have never met Mandela, but I know/knew quite a few people who were on first name terms with him and were heavily involved in the ANC.
      
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      August 27, 2023 12:04pm
      - mawm
        
        Mandela did not qualify as a lawyer. He started studying for an LLB at Wits Uni but gave up and by his own admission he was a poor student.
        
        He certainly managed to get very wealthy, his will was only released in an abridged form, and the Western Liberals ensured that he became the figurehead of a “successful” African state.
        
        Che – ”Nelson Mandela said that all people are born equal, with each entitled in equal measure to life, liberty, prosperity, human rights, and good governance.” That was not reflected in his ANC
        government’s BEE (Black Economic Empowerment) which in reality, rightly or not, was disempowerment of whites.
        
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        August 27, 2023 6:43pm
      - cmm
        
        Mandela got an LLB from UNISA in 1988 or 89 while he was in prison.
        I got a BScHons at the same graduation ceremony in Cape Town city hall.
        As I said, his name was read out but he did not attend.
        
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        August 27, 2023 10:25pm
  - cmm
    
    Sorry guava I gave you a down tick by mistake. Fat finger, small screen.
    I 100% agree. Look up Operation Vula -an ANC Operation to bring piles of weapons into SA townships. This was not for black liberation, but for black on black violence in the struggle for post-apartheid power.
    
    Tens of thousands killed. Apartheid could have ended two or more years earlier had Mandela put down weapons and come to the table.
    
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    August 27, 2023 12:12pm
    - Che Guava
      
      It’s an interesting dilemma: Black people didn’t have the same rights as Whites under apartheid and had no (or maybe little) political power. It was a prosperous nation with a functioning social structure. Then apartheid ended in the 1990s and the roles quickly reversed, with Whites becoming a disenfranchised and hated minority. Within 30 years the country has fallen to pieces and has reverted back to something akin to every other sub-Saharan African country. Empirical reality has soundly defeated all ideological expectations in this case. This is a stark lesson that is particularly relevant to politics in contemporary New Zealand and the “vision” for the future held by many.
      
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      August 27, 2023 12:56pm
      - cmm
        
        I would argue that there are only two reasons it has not fallen faster.
        * It didn’t go commie for the reasons I explained above. That would have killed SA within 10 years.
        * The whites had built an amazing infrastructure that lasted a long time and has taken 3O years to
        destroy. SA infrastructure in the early 90s was way ahead of NZ. Not any more.
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:56pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  ACT have had a shocker of a week. They need to regroup and lift their game – the country needs them to.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:46am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Not a word here from the usual suspects
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:14am
    - mawm
      
      He still has bigger balls and better policies than Luxon. I agree that Seymour has always been very impressed with his own ability to stand up in parliament and bloviate. However I’m still waiting for him, as the leader of our most libertarian party, to apologise for being part of the attack on our individual sovereignty and bodily autonomy. Luxon will never.
      
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      August 27, 2023 6:51pm
- SmokerGuy
  
  I was deadset on voting ACT this election but I do feel a bit of arrogance creeping into David Seymour. On the other hand I think Luxon is getting better and better as this goes on and I see no arrogance at all in him. There’s nothing I hate more in politician’s than arrogance and we’ve seen to much of that crap since Labour became government.
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:25am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    I mentioned arrogance with Act after last election, I have been rubbished and ridiculed, but now people are starting to see what I mean, arrogance for act should never be seen especially after they only survived thanks to Nats, the Nats at any time could have pushed ho on Epsom when ACT wee a one trick pony, now the arrogance is leaking support to the vermin Peters
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:58am
    - SmokerGuy
      
      I hadn’t really seen arrogance in him but I reckon the last month or so in some interviews he has done and things he’s said, he’s started to come across that way. That statement about Mandala for example, what an own goal that is. He is a great politician but if people start seeing him as arrogant it is poison and his support will start to go downhill fast.
      
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      August 27, 2023 4:44pm
artemisia

“A 17-letter name, the traditional Māori name for the location, has been rejected by Bay of Plenty residents for being too long, leaving it a street with no name. Papakangahorohoro Road was proposed as the name of a development of new houses at Bunyan Rd, Whakatāne, after the Whakatāne District Council consulted with local iwi.”

Which consultation will prevail? Or will it be “consultation”?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/bay-of-plenty/300956914/homeowners-oppose-street-name-chosen-by-iwi-saying-the-17letter-name-is-too-long
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August 27, 2023 8:17am
- Jethrod
  
  So it won’t be long before Crete St, Louvain St and Goulstone Road get their change of name!
  All old Whakatane streets.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Te Road” will do.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:16am
  - kowtow
    
    Roads are so colonial .
    
    Te path , perhaps.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:55am
  - greybeard
    
    We already have “te motowei”.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:38am
- rouppe
  
  The name – meaning “to move swiftly in battle formation like the crab” – was chosen by Ngāti Awa cultural adviser Pouroto Ngaropō, because the houses were on land where chief Taiwhakaea trained his warriors in defence tactics and battle formations.
  
  Reminds me about the story of an (American) Indian who asked about how his siblings “Running Deer” and “Sparking River” were named. “Why do you ask, Two Dogs Fucking?”
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:57am
  - Taieri
    
    to move swiftly in battle formation like the crab
    ———
    
    What a conversation stopper. “What’s your address?” “Well, I live at To Move Swiftly in Battle Formation Like the Crab Road.”
    An excellent name, provided it is only ever used in English.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:36am
Yvette

is the Treaty of Waitangi now bit of an abortion?

TOO MANY POLITICIANS ARE IGNORANT OR INTIMIDATED – Don Brash, 26 August 2023

… But of course there is nothing about partnership in the Treaty, whether in the Maori language version or in the English language version. The speeches made by chiefs at the time of the signing, both by chiefs who opposed the signing because they recognized that power was being handed to the Governor on behalf of the Queen and by those who nevertheless favoured signing it, make it abundantly clear that the chiefs recognised that they were ceding sovereignty. And this recognition was reaffirmed repeatedly on subsequent occasions, most notably at the Kohimarama meeting of chiefs in 1860 and by the man who adorns our $50 bank note, Sir Apirana Ngata
https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-too-many-politicians-are-ignorant-or-intimidated

As has been said several times before, when the American Supreme Court relatively recently released its decision on abortion, the media swamped the topic of abortion, when absolutely nothing changed in New Zealand relating to the topic, and they totally ignored the subject of the Supreme Court ruling returning America’s Founding Document to what is said, or in this case, what it doesn’t say≈.

And that needs to be the case with the Treaty
It doesn’t refer to co-governance – nor does it mention the word Aotearoa

Also of interest may be two quotes from the Waitangi Tribunal website –

Meaning of the Treaty – A Treaty of two texts
The term used in the te reo Māori version, ‘kawanatanga’, was a transliteration of the word ‘governance’, which was then in current use. Māori understanding of this word came from familiar use in the New Testament of the Bible (when referring to the likes of Pontius Pilate), and from their knowledge of the role of the Governor of New South Wales, whom they referred to as ‘Kawana’.

Article 3
In article 3, the Crown promised to Māori the benefits of royal protection and full citizenship. This text emphasises equality.
https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/treaty-of-waitangi/meaning-of-the-treaty/

“full citizenship. This text emphasises equality” – equality between full citizens, not equality with-the government. That would have taken up an Article 4, and there isn’t one
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August 27, 2023 8:18am
- pdm
  
  Yvette good to see you back and in full flight.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:52am
- I remember when
  
  In article 3, the Crown promised to Maori….
  Where does it mention what the Crown promised to those who were 10%, 25%, etc, Maori?
  
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  August 27, 2023 2:04pm
Bridgenag

From Australia

“Stupid people are so stupid that they eventually turn against each other. Just stay out of the line of fire.
Until then, try to survive and never say or do something intelligent in front of stupid people. It will make them feel inferior. They already feel inadequate. That’s why they crave authority. And they can’t think for themselves, that’s why they crave authority.

But never underestimate them. They can be very dangerous.

Evil people are predictable. Idiots are unpredictable. You can’t trust them. They betray you. Be careful.”

https://open.substack.com/pub/markusmutscheller/p/stupid-people?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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August 27, 2023 8:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “How stupid can you be?”
  It’s a challenge.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:18am
  - mawm
    
    Hold my beer.
    
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    August 27, 2023 6:54pm
- miltonF
  
  “No matter how many idiots you suspect yourself surrounded by, Cipolla wrote, you are invariably lowballing the total.”
  
  For me, this was one of the most shocking realisations of the Covid debacle. I used to believe most people had general intelligence. As it turns out, many “professionals” cannot logically deduce anything. No problem solving ability whatsoever. They were getting by on the impression they are intelligent, because they are quite “book smart” and good at following orders and repeating what they’ve been told.
  
  In other words, we thought people were smart because they could calculate 2+2=4. It turns out, they actually CANNOT calculate 2+2=4, but they can still give us the answer 2+2=4, because someone previously told them the answer was 4.
  
  They have some knowledge, but they do not have intelligence or wisdom.
  
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  August 27, 2023 5:05pm
KH

The site for Russian war information is now. http://www.southfront.press
It’s original link at .org was sabotaged.
Very useful if you want to see the Ukraine war form both side.
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August 27, 2023 8:30am
- Burtland
  
  SouthFront is a multilingual website registered in Russia and based in Crimea. It has been accused by multiple sources of being an outlet for disinformation and propaganda under the control of the Russian government. For this reason, it has been sanctioned by the US Treasury and banned by social media platforms.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SouthFront
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:34am
  - mawm
    
    From Wikipedia! You know that the CIA edits Wikipedia posts?
    
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    August 27, 2023 6:56pm
- rangitoto
  
  Andrew Perpetua on X is the best source. He uses satellite firms data to figure out where the contact lines are.
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:38am
- Bridgenag
  
  Don’t forget
  SIMPLICIUS THE THINKER
  
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  August 27, 2023 12:39pm
sungsamning

I used to post here as curry4me. then my laptop died. I tried logging in again again. But the computer said no. so, I’m back as Sungsamning. That’s Korean for teacher. I used to teach English in Korea.

[Mod – I have sent a password reset to the email address associated with you curry4me account]
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August 27, 2023 8:38am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Often if you change your password that sorts out the problem
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:05am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  선생님
  
  Have you forgotten some of your Korean?
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:10am
  - sungsamning
    
    Only learned survival Korean.
    
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    August 27, 2023 2:49pm
- sungsamning
  
  Thanks, but I’ll stay with my new name if that is OK.
  
  [Mod – that’s good ]
  
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  August 27, 2023 2:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The road to ethnonationalism:

It appears clear that the Labour, Green and Maori parties are committed to a society which is permanently divided by race, where those who chance to have some (often very slight) Maori ancestry have a separate, and superior, constitutional status to all the rest of us.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-too-many-politicians-are-ignorant-or-intimidated
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August 27, 2023 8:38am
- kowtow
  
  Sadly one must add the Nats to that too.
  
  See their promotion of “partnership” in C4LD as canvassed in GD yesterday .
  
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  August 27, 2023 8:46am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Stick with the status quo then
    
    6 2
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    August 27, 2023 10:06am
    - Observer of Life
      
      G you are so bloody defensive. Calm the farm mate.
      
      3 0
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      August 27, 2023 2:03pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Your implication that National is adopting C4LD’s proposals holus bolus is misleading. There’s only one C4LD recommendation being picked up, which has nothing to do with the notion of partnership. It’s this one:
    
    National will adopt the recommendation from Communities 4 Local Democracy (C4LD), representing a large group of councils, and introduce a regulatory backstop as a last resort mechanism to support this policy. This
    will provide step-in powers for the Government if any council or group of councils are unable to deliver a viable plan that can deliver on outcomes for water quality, infrastructure investment and financial sustainability.
    
    The only other reference to C4LD is that National will allow Regional Council Controlled Organisations (CCO’s) which would allow for three or more neighbouring councils to own a standalone entity with the ability to access long-term borrowing to invest in long-term infrastructure, without it impacting council
    balance sheets. There’s no mention in either proposal of any notion of “partnership”, however that is perceived.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:31am
    - kowtow
      
      Sorry , not good enough . The Nats need to be explicit that “one man one vote ” applies in principle across all decision making in local and national governance .
      
      The Nat document itself Local Water Done well , contains the sentence “Iwi have rights and interests in water” . What rights and interests woulfd those be that other rate payers don’t have.
      
      And then the document directs us to c4ld which is loaded with undemocratic principles .
      
      see
      
      https://static1.squarespace.com/static/619fd53ba6dd3723818947ba/t/62536ac7f75a5e1eadf50fb4/1649633995248/C4LD+Position+on+Iwi+M%C4%81ori+Partnership+April+2022.pdf
      
      “We actively seek to initiate authentic discussions with mana whenua at a local level that
      consider co-design and partnership arrangements that acknowledge and enable Te Tiriti
      based pathways at a local and regional level.”
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:12am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Luxon to the National Party conference in Christchurch last year:
        
        A country that emphasizes what unites us, instead of what divides us. A country that says absolutely, explicitly, that there is one standard of democracy, equal voting rights and no co-governance of public services.
        
        That’s the New Zealand I want to live in.
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:00pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        The Nat document itself Local Water Done well, contains the sentence “Iwi have rights and interests in water”. What rights and interests would those be that other rate payers don’t have?
        
        ——————————————————————-
        Re. Kowtow’s question:
        
        @ Tony – what does special interests in water does the National Party think that Iwi have? I’d really like to know.
        
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        August 27, 2023 2:49pm
- Yvette
  
  … and were the general German people of the 1930s slowly boiled like a poroka – frog?
  
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  August 27, 2023 8:51am
- Grunter
  
  Nelson Mandela would NOT agree with this nutty apartheid society.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:05am
  - Michael Sommerville
    
    A better comparison would be with Dr Martin Luther King.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:11am
    - kowtow
      
      A black pastor with a penchant for white prostitutes .
      
      5 1
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      August 27, 2023 12:16pm
  - cmm
    
    How would you know?
    I think the sanitized and embellished statue staring down from the plinth was very different to the actual man.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:24am
  - kowtow
    
    a supporter of armed terrorism.
    
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    August 27, 2023 12:12pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Indeed Maggy and even then it wouldn’t be enough for them.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:31am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It seems clear to me (obviously not to Chris Luxon) that there are, at present, two very different interpretations of the Treaty in competition with each other.
  
  The default plan is for the Government/media to shout down anyone who shares views along the lines of Don Brash or David Seymour. So, metaphorically beat them into silence and submission.
  
  That might work, unhappily. The alternative is for New Zealanders to decide at a referendum. I would challenge those who oppose this idea – that is you Mr Luxon – to describe a counter factual over the next few decades.
  
  If the majority decide that embedding co-governance is a great idea, then so be it.
  
  Chris Luxon seems a smart guy. He must have principles based views on this subject. maybe he thinks a referendum will divide the nation. Well, yes it will. But the nation is already divided.
  
  Look at the Brexit referendum. It divided that nation like nothing else since WW2, but the people made the decision and the country is moving forward. I’m unaware of the “remainers” still rioting in the streets. IMO it would be the same here with a referendum as proposed by David Seymour. Whatever the result, the country would move forward. Without the referendum, I don’t see the country moving forward.
  
  I might be more reassured if Mr Luxon could cogently tell me why a referendum is a bad idea. I’m always happy to be convinced that I am wrong. But sorry, looking like a possum in the headlights and stating “that is not National policy” does not work for me.
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:21am
  - leoj
    
    Luxon is scared of the media.
    Luxon is scared of being labelled racist.
    Luxon has legs of jelly.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:27am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Luxon is an invertebrate.
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:08am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Scared my ass, we were told by the likes of you he would fold like a deck of cards, to me he is standing strong as Hipkins looks like folding
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:18am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        So I am wrong then?
        
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        August 27, 2023 12:12pm
  - Souvlaki
    
    Could NOT be better put Benedict.
    I wish all the “ra ra Luvon/ Nats” fans could open their eyes!!
    Maybe he will be persuaded if he NEEDS ACT.
    What does the Great Charlatan say on a referendum re Maori dominance?
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There is only one Treaty. What has been used since the 1975 Waitangi Tribunal is false – a rogue Treaty.
    Explained from 1840 by Julian Batchelor. 53 minutes Benedict, take your time, I know you are clever.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVgY03s6Tqc
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:05am
  - cmm
    
    No, sorry, but holding a referendum (aka a popularity conest) is not the way to decide what a legal document means.
    
    Translation always modifies meaning (as you have undoubtedly observed as a person fluent in many languages). Far more so when it is an unwritten and unstable language like Maori, Zulu of such.
    
    As you will recall, a few days back,the very simple term meaning “by Maori for Maori” was reinterpreted to mean “by Maori for everyone”.
    
    If such a simple phrase can change so much, then the meaning of a complex document changes even more. If the words in a document do not have a stable and precise meaning the the document is not stable and precise.
    
    Thus the Maori version of the Treaty is close to meaningless.
    
    Further we must recognize that many of the concepts being conveyed were completely unknown to Maori and thus there were no Maori words for them.
    
    The Maori translation of the Treaty should thus be considered a secondary document – a translation to give a broad understanding, but not the finer nuances.
    
    What matters is the English version and its meaning as intended at the time not as reinterpreted through a modern woke lens.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:06am
    - Taieri
      
      Thus the Maori version of the Treaty is close to meaningless
      ————-
      
      Both versions, the Maori and the English are equally meaningless. This agreement was entered into almost 200 years ago in totally different world, between the Stone Age people and an empire of the yesteryear. The Stone Age people are no longer Stone Age, they are just a normal modern people and the Empire no longer exists having been covered by the dusts of history several generations ago. The document is not relevant to the very remote descendants of the original signatories and more so to the current ethnic make up of NZ population and should have been consigned to an archive many moons ago.
      
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      August 27, 2023 11:48am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Please read the link I gave to Benedict at 11.05.
        Make time, it is 53 minutes – and well worth that time watching.
        
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        August 27, 2023 4:26pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      CMM: Ten surely that means the Littlewood draft is the original English version? As it is the exact same – bar the word Maori included in the Maori translation? Pretty simple then.
      
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      August 27, 2023 2:11pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Nope. After the original written in Maori and read to the Chiefs, the Littlewood draft was only found in 1989.
        The 1975 version and the changes made by Sir Hugh Kawharu and more from the 1975 Waitangi Tribunal is a rogue Treaty! Fisheries and forestry were not in the original Treaty. Yes this was Political – PM at the time was none other than David Lange.
        Observer of life – spare 53 minutes of your time and watch what I replied to Benedict Yu at 110.5 today.
        
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        August 27, 2023 4:35pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RFrR9FXDSY

The World Map is Being Redrawn!
It looks like country, culture, and religion are becoming more important. As opposed to wokeness, and Mc World. [9:38]
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August 27, 2023 8:39am
Monty

Has anyone noticed an uplift in @nzlabour MPs suddenly advertising their name all over social media – but with the parliamentary crest – this is blatant taxpayer funded advertising

Anna Larck is one but I am sure there are others

We know Labour have no money but is this the modern equivalent of pledge cards?
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August 27, 2023 8:49am
- pdm
  
  Labour MP’s doing what comes naturally.
  
  Rorting Taxpayers!!!@
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:55am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I am dick of most of them turning up on my FB page that I am following, it’s quite good though, because most are being hammered In comments, the one that gets the worst is Anderson, there was 30 comments on one thread about having a cuppa tea with her, every single. Moment was extremely derogatory
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ad blocker. I don’t see much of their shit.
  
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  August 27, 2023 4:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Will you say NO to coming masks and lockdown mandates.
Looks like the Democrats are gearing up for 2024.
Sorry Labour, it is too late for you to blackmail us again.

https://craigbushon.com/2023/08/will-you-say-no-to-coming-masks-and-lockdown-mandates/
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August 27, 2023 8:52am
- Inandout
  
  SO, I suspect the only mask we will see in US politics is a death mask on the current President. Joe is declining at an alarming rate.
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:45am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Then we get the laughing hyena. Roll on 2024.
    
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    August 27, 2023 11:25am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I was thinking yesterday about whether New Zealanders would comply with more lockdowns.
  
  My best guess is that about 20 percent would love the idea. 60 percent would comply reluctantly. 20 percent would riot.
  
  I just can’t see it.
  
  I recently read the Influenza Pandemic Plan that was formulated over several editions in the 20 years pre COVID.
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/influenza-pandemic-plan-framework-action-2nd-edn-aug17.pdf
  
  Notably, it states:
  
  “The New Zealand Influenza Pandemic Plan sets outs the all-of-government strategy and framework for action. It can be adopted and applied to any pandemic event.”
  
  Shame it was totally ignored for COVID. 20 years work by successive governments and straight into the trash can. It says nothing about locking down the entire population or keeping citizens out of the country. Rather the emphasis is on strictly isolating and caring for the sick, protecting the vulnerable, contact tracing and social distancing.
  
  It is a detailed plan, and hence quite complex. I can’t help thinking that this complexity was daunting to the key politicians in charge at the time. Much easier to lock everyone up.
  
  The only country that followed something like the original New Zealand pandemic plan was Sweden.
  
  Funny that Sweden now has by far the lowest cumulative excess deaths among developed countries, compared to the 2015-2019 average.
  
  https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/sweden-covid-and-excess-deaths-a-look-at-the-data/
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:06am
  - Che Guava
    
    They didn’t use the existing pandemic plan because Covid was not a pandemic. That was a pretext used to justify compliance.
    
    In the same way that you wouldn’t consult your car’s owners manual when you went to build a new deck, you wouldn’t consult a pandemic plan when you were trying to impose rules and restrictions and privations that were completely unrelated to how you would respond to an actual pandemic.
    
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    August 27, 2023 10:35am
  - I remember when
    
    The Covid Pandemic Plan was only ever partly about covid.
    It was mostly a Labour Party re-election scheme.
    Jacinda was even hoping she could carry enough of the support on until the next election.
    
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    August 27, 2023 2:18pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      She ran, she would never say ‘sorry. I got it wrong.’
      
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      August 27, 2023 4:39pm
- rouppe
  
  A more comprehensive approach that includes targeted testing, contact tracing, and isolating confirmed cases can provide a more efficient means of disease control without resorting to blanket lockdown measures.
  
  This has been the approach for centuries.
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:14am
Maggy Wassilieff

Remember the big fuss about getting rid of the Head of Oranga Tamariki a few years back?…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300212679/timeline-oranga-tamariki-chief-executive-grainne-moss-road-to-resignation

Well, how is Oranga Tamariki doing these days?

I asked its CEO, Jane Searle, why she thinks Oranga Tamariki’s data is so opaque.

“Do you want my honest answer? I think the figures would be so confronting – and put such a spotlight on what is happening – that it wouldn’t be tolerable to the hierarchy at Oranga Tamariki.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300958410/how-many-kids-are-being-killed-oranga-tamariki-cant-say

How sickening is it that this Government Department fails to have up-to-date information on the children under its watch?
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August 27, 2023 9:01am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is depressing that a CE of a government agency has to ask ““Do you want my honest answer?”
  
  No I want you to lie to us. 🙄
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:07am
  - kowtow
    
    Or that te media pahti don’t have their pitch forks out as they did when a cough cough honkey was in charge .
    
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    August 27, 2023 9:14am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Hi Benedict, Jane Searle is CEO of NGO Child Matters, not CEO of OT.
    
    Maggy’s quote, though accurate, is misleading – unintentionally, I’m sure.
    
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    August 27, 2023 2:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
Principles of the Treaty? There are none – unless you ask post 1975 Waitangi Tribunal Maori. We have been milked for 48 years.
Good luck on getting anything from David Parker, Sandra.

https://www.stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/the-principles-of-the-treaty-there-are-none/

Included is a nothing, rubbish piece by Phil Twyford. He clearly does not understand ‘one person, one vote’ Let me wake you up Twyford. Having positions in Local and Central Govt appointed and not voted for is NOT ‘one person, one vote.’
Seriously, you can’t be that thick. You are dodging common sense.
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August 27, 2023 9:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  25 up?
  All of my relaying Stop Co-Governance is working!
  Go for it and learn, if you want your New Zealand.
  
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  August 27, 2023 5:47pm
Yvette

Chris Hipkins is defending Willie Jackson and Grant Robertson after the former dubbed Chris Bishop “thick” and the latter called Nicola Willis a “liar”
“The member can’t get it through his thick head that the minister was making those comments in a previous life – 10 years ago,” Jackson said of Bishop. “So get it through your thick head that this member here totally supports the Government and we support minister Russell, 100 percent.”

What if Chris Bishop had called Willie Jackson”thick”?

Is Meng Foon still Race Relations Commissioner, or is he nowgone-burger?
Just asking for Willie
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August 27, 2023 9:24am
- pdm
  
  Sorry supposed to be an uptick
  
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  August 27, 2023 9:58am
- rouppe
  
  “The member can’t get it through his thick head that the minister was making those comments in a previous life – 10 years ago,”
  
  Wonder why that doesn’t apply to Uffindel
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:17am
- cmm
  
  Well Get Boosted Bishop is thick.
  Why try argue against facts?
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

So the Jan 6th Trump Rally was not infiltrated right. Police with candy stripes on gun barrels. Wristbands.
Two videos.

https://patriotclash.com/breaking-video-dc-police-officer-admitting-being-undercover-as-antifa-during-j6/
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August 27, 2023 9:35am
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Nasty pieces of work by bribed up Stuff journalists Mau and Vance attacking National and ACT. Not sure where these bloody idiots were when Labour ministers were one by one biting thecl dust. Nasty Vance even makes a nasty play with the names of the National MPs she is attacking.
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August 27, 2023 9:47am
- kowtow
  
  NZME Sunday Herald editorial too.
  
  Uses a photo of van de molen.
  
  The editorial is either taking the piss or full on schizophrenic.
  
  Says parliament is no place for “flakes” and only the best are needed there .
  
  So why are they having a go at molen , and why support “diversity”.
  
  Maybe the instructions from DPMC weren’t clear enough.
  
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  August 27, 2023 12:24pm
- David Garrett
  
  Sir Cullen: Vance is a nasty bit of work? OMG, who knew?
  
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  August 27, 2023 12:52pm
Pope Punctilious II

My beef for the day is the current funding weightings for research subject areas. The current government has given the highest weighting to “Maaori knowledge and development” – from 2026, universities will get more funding for a student enrolled in this area than for a student enrolled in engineering, science or medicine.
https://www.tec.govt.nz/assets/Publications-and-others/PBRF-Publications/PBRF-User-Manual-updated-February-2022.pdf

The next government must reverse this painfully stupid decision. We need more medical doctors, not more witch doctors!

This is just one example of the ongoing ideological corruption of our institutions. The next government needs to change the settings of all our institutions if we’re to see sustainable improvements in this country’s trajectory. Unfortunately most of our politicians are reluctant to take the tough decisions, instead settling for stop-gap measures or distractions, in an effort to gain or hang onto power.
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August 27, 2023 9:49am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Nationals policy to create another med school In Hamilton can only help, both Otago and Auckland uni’s said they could take on more students, clearly they would need funding, but this crazy government bizarrely said no
  
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  August 27, 2023 10:21am
- cmm
  
  This will kill off what remaining research exists in NZ universities, the tiny bit remaining after the focus on “climate change”.
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:37am
Jack5

Think the homeless are a problem in our big cities and places like Rotorua, have a look at the anarchy in San Francisco. Is this what’s coming to, say, Wellington?

You should be able to see some of the video as a non-subscriber to this site:

https://public.substack.com/p/anarcho-tyranny-behind-san-francisco?
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August 27, 2023 9:57am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I thought I heard them say on Fox that 10% of the LA population lives on the street, they have streets going for miles that have tents and drugged ups bums just lying there
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:24am
- cmm
  
  Homeless are not the problem. They are the symptom of other problems – including the voters.
  Trying to fix homelessness without fixing up stream problems is pointless.
  
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  August 27, 2023 11:43am
- NothingLeft
  
  Homeless accumulate in big cities with warm climates where sleeping outside is most tolerable. Snowy winters are literal death to homeless
  
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  August 27, 2023 7:14pm
Chuck Bird

Josie used to be left but has shifted right.

Should we ban offensive words? | Josie Pagani | The Common Room

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjQE25Bg6gQ
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August 27, 2023 10:11am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump, Fani Willis, Jim Jordan.
So if Hillary and Stacy Abrams were not prosecuted, why was Trump?
Election interference? Nah!!//

https://billingsreport.com/fulton-county-da-fani-willis-is-now-a-subject-of-a-house-judiciary-committee-investigation/
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August 27, 2023 10:25am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

14 JEFFREY EPSTEIN ASSOCIATES NAMED.
These names would not be published if there was a threat of suing.
Names are not in the Black Book. How do they know? Who has that Black Book?

https://billingsreport.com/14-jeffrey-epstein-associates-named-including-bidens-new-cia-chief-william-burns/
11 1
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August 27, 2023 10:31am
- sungsamning
  
  Oooh, must be time for another ‘indictment’.
  
  4 1
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  August 27, 2023 3:14pm
- miltonF
  
  Is there any doubt that Epstein was running a CIA-backed honey-pot?
  
  4 1
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  August 27, 2023 5:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And they like it!!
    
    2 1
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    August 27, 2023 5:48pm
thirteenstars

Why Are Trump’s Accused Co-Conspirators Smiling for Their Mug Shots?

A booking photo normally reflects gravity, bewilderment or even surprise. That is not the case with some of the former president’s co-defendants.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/24/us/politics/trump-politicians-mug-shots.html

What a hoot. We’re approaching peak TDS and they still don’t get it.
17 2
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August 27, 2023 10:39am
- kevn
  
  13… and check out Trumps interview with Carlson the other day.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIsemTMgyO0
  
  8 1
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  August 27, 2023 12:24pm
  - sungsamning
    
    almost 200 million views by now. About 195 million more than the debate.
    
    5 1
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    August 27, 2023 3:15pm
Benedict Yu

“The Green Party is making a climate resilience announcement this morning, including a promise to complete light rail in Wellington by 2030.”

Yes that is believable. 🙁
26 0
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August 27, 2023 10:41am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  What is this ‘climate resilience’ business? Are they suggesting that this light rail project somehow makes us more resilient to ‘the climate’, whatever that means? Are they suggesting that the project is somehow made worthwhile because of this alleged need for ‘climate resilience’? Is there some kind of suggestion that bad weather won’t affect this project as severely as other forms of transport?
  I have a suspicion that ‘climate resilience’ == mysterious waffle.
  
  23 0
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  August 27, 2023 11:00am
- imalwaysright
  
  Saw Genter on Tame Jacks advertorial programme .
  
  He asked Genter if they polled Rongotai.
  
  She said they have done on average over 10,000 doorknocks!
  
  I presume she means the number of knocks required to get the occupant to answer the door and tell them to fuck off.
  
  35 1
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  August 27, 2023 11:11am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  From the article: “Wellington’s line would run from Island Bay to the Railway Station. The line would be completed by 2029”
  
  There already is a very green bus route between the Railway Station & Island Bay, featuring double decker electric buses.
  
  Exactly what transport problem is this policy supposed to answer?
  
  Morons!
  
  9 0
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  August 27, 2023 3:15pm
  - C-Town
    
    Wellington Station isn’t big enough for any more trains or trams, light rail or otherwise. There just isn’t enough platforms.
    
    I commute to Wellington from Upper Hutt on most days, and nearly every morning, the train has to stop outside the station for a few minutes while it waits for another train to leave the leave the station so that there’s an empty platform to pull into.
    
    There’s no space for the station to grow sideways because roads are there, The only way you can fit more trains in, is to dig underground but that will take time and money.
    
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    August 27, 2023 5:34pm
- mandk
  
  And all for the sake of a benefit: cost ratio of 0.05.
  
  5 0
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  August 27, 2023 3:39pm
blue collar

Good old daffodils .
Bring a smile to my face .
Kowhai starting to flower
All this yellow …. Party vote ACT
Big feed of bacon n eggs ,
Whack my local candidate national sign up on fence
whitebait season knocking on the door ,
Shaping up for a grouse spring

Bring on the landslide !
19 1
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August 27, 2023 11:06am
kevn

blue…. labour gone for a generation Bob Jones reckons.
15 0
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August 27, 2023 12:21pm
- blue collar
  
  Defo brother kevvy !!
  
  2 0
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  August 27, 2023 6:51pm
CAKE FACE1

[Mod – use correct names, hipkins or chippy] has the audacity to calls others a “coalition of fear”???

Who was central to the greatest fear-mongering event in history (the Zero Covid Cult)? Was it all just a bad dream?

What a chipwreck…
14 1
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August 27, 2023 12:37pm
David Garrett

Hipkins just announced Labour would not work with NZF…the Nats need to do the same, and quickly, which makes a vote for NZF a wasted vote. ACT don’t need to say anything; they hate NZF and the feeling is mutual.
18 1
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August 27, 2023 12:42pm
- ecco
  
  Probably a few ifs and buts Hipkins hasn’t told us about but will come out after the election with.
  
  10 0
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  August 27, 2023 12:50pm
- Ghost
  
  “Winston peters and NZ First are a force of instability and chaos,” Hipkins said.
  
  Pot meet the kettle
  
  23 0
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  August 27, 2023 12:58pm
  - Taieri
    
    “Winston peters and NZ First are a force of instability and chaos,” Hipkins said.
    ————-
    
    It wasn’t like that in 2017, was it?
    
    12 0
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    August 27, 2023 2:06pm
Steve Todd

Curia will no doubt be polling in Ilam today – they polled in Napier last Sunday – with the results to be released at the start of the Taxpayers’ Union Ilam election debate on Tuesday night (7:00–8:30PM), live on Freeview Channel 200 and other platforms.

All four candidates participating in the debate must win the electorate contest if they are to be an MP after the election. Sarah Pallett is No. 51 on Labour’s list; Hamish Campbell is No. 63 on National’s List; Raf Manji is No. 1 on TOP’s list; and Mike Davidson is No. 19 on the Greens’ list. ACT NZ does not have a candidate in this electorate.

At least until 7:15PM on Tuesday, it would seem that Ilam, like Wellington Central (where ACT NZ also does not have an electorate candidate), is wide open.

(See https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2023/08/25/7pm-8-30pm-tuesday-live-streamed-and-simulcast-freeview-200-taxpayers-union-ilam-election-debate-hosted-by-the-working-group/.)
6 2
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August 27, 2023 1:26pm
Ghost

1 out of every 90 New Zealand kids abused or neglected. That is an horrific figure.

We can’t tackle child abuse if the ministry in charge of it can’t provide the facts, writes Jehan Casinader.

ANALYSIS: How many New Zealand kids were abused or killed last year?

You’d think it was a simple question. Child abuse has been in the headlines for decades. Is it getting better or worse?

I was shocked by how difficult it was to answer this question.

Article

On Friday – four days after my original enquiry – some basic information arrived in my inbox. And it blew my mind.

In the year to June 30, 2023, Oranga Tamariki established that 12,743 individual children were abused or neglected. That’s around 1.1% of under-17s.

Let that sink in. That means around one in 90 children were abused or neglected last year.
10 0
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August 27, 2023 2:02pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  That’s only the ones that OT know about.
  
  Let that sink in.
  
  6 0
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  August 27, 2023 3:01pm
Swifty

Pardon?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12448855/He-took-viagra-deaf-hell-living-Hugh-Hefner-playboy-bunny.html
6 0
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August 27, 2023 4:26pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Way to go
  
  3 0
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  August 27, 2023 5:46pm
  - David Garrett
    
    Swifty: Absolutely! But I always preferred brunettes myself…(Must cut back on the viagra before I go deaf!!)
    
    3 0
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    August 27, 2023 6:34pm
Warren

Luxon stay on cue to the media on Hipkins saying he is the one that wants to slag other parties off as he no plan or the ability to fix what’s is wrong with his Government.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/08/livestream-national-leader-christopher-luxon-speaking-to-media-in-auckland.html
They couldn’t trip him up as he stayed on the message, if you want a change of Government party vote National as that is the only way for you to achieve it.
5 0
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August 27, 2023 4:31pm
- jon
  
  Warren, what pleased me about that press conference in Auckland, today, was Luxon saying the Maori wards on local councils will be removed. There was always overwhelming opposition to establishment of these seats and that should be respected. Plus they came at a extra cost to ratepayers.
  
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  August 27, 2023 6:46pm
Swifty

Could anyone please tell me what form, if any, the Wellington Railway Station pie cart takes these days?

Many thanks.
5 0
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August 27, 2023 4:59pm
- C-Town
  
  There is a cart there, more of a trailer. It mainly sells sushi though. I’m not sure if it sells pies. I usually make my own sandwiches to eat for lunch. If I need a pie, I go to the Lambton Square mini-mart.
  
  6 0
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  August 27, 2023 5:37pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Still a food caravan outside next the driveway. Sushi, I think. Not a late night dive.
  
  3 0
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  August 27, 2023 5:50pm
- Swifty
  
  Thanks both.
  
  It’s been 30 years since I left Wellie and it just popped into my mind as to whether it was still there.
  
  5 0
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  August 27, 2023 6:42pm
Ghost

I doubt anyone will be surprised about this

Greek officials made 79 arrests connected with alleged arson claims in many of the wildfires that have ravaged the country this summer.

Article
10 0
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August 27, 2023 5:30pm
greybeard

How the All Blacks can win the RWC:

1. Get rid of the bloody awful haka.
2. Drop Foster as a selector.
3. Drop Cane entirely.
3 2
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August 27, 2023 5:55pm
- blue collar
  
  Brother greybeard to replace CEO Robinson immediately !!!!
  
  3 0
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  August 27, 2023 6:55pm
- Colville
  
  They have done OK with the haka for 100 odd years… so THAT aint the problem…
  
  0 0
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  August 27, 2023 8:18pm
kevn

AB management politics just spoiling the game.
2 0
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August 27, 2023 7:08pm
David Garrett

It was a strange old Saturday night up here in Tonga for me…the only male heterosexual New Zealander who couldn’t give a toss about the mighty AB’s being beaten…and by a record margin. Too funny
3 1
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August 27, 2023 7:16pm

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