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September 12, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 September 2023

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General Debate

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NeverMindTheBollocks

Has anyone set up a Labour Election Lie Counter?

Here’s another one.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300968423/advertising-complaint-laid-against-labour-mp-over-housing-claims
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September 12, 2023 8:01am
- nathie
  
  Perception wise does this also call into question Halbert’s credibility over allegedly being “bullied” by National’s Tim van Molen at a select committee meeting back in July?
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:28am
  - Random T Person
    
    Van De Molen has sucked that one up, let’s move on.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:35am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    The Privileges Committee destroyed their credibility when they punished the most inoffensive gentleman in parliament, Tim van der Molen.
    Nobody ever has, do not and never will, trust Halbert.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:44am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Accidental downtick sorry.
  
  Was going to say, I hear they’re using that counter to drive the ceiling fan in Hipkin’s office……
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:11am
- Loddenthinks
  
  The person in question has “previous” for this exact thing from the last election. On that occasion, Labour apologised for the error, pulled the remaining flyers and had them pulped, and had to reissue the flyers without the lies.
  
  On this occasion? Not so much. Desperate candidate doubles down and “has nothing to apologise for” even the lies are bigger. I guess it’s true that if you make the lie big enough, some people will believe it.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:49am
  - hullkiwi
    
    The candidate also has history going back to when he stood in the 2018 by-election for the seat.
    
    He had lied in his LinkedIn profile about having a degree from AUT he didn’t have. Needless to say, he had to admit he hadn’t completed the degree course.
    
    Now where have I heard something similar, recently, involving a co-leader of the Green Party?
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:16am
NeverMindTheBollocks

What a bunch of muppets!

It’s been a fairly wet Wellington winter, and yet the usual suspects are threatening water shortages.

Here’s a tip – fix the [expletive removed] pipes.

And by the way – you politicians have been encouraging immigration without providing the necessary infrastructure. It’s on you, and no one else.

https://www.thepost.co.nz/a/nz-news/350070031/water-summit-region-brink-crisis
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September 12, 2023 8:02am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  No, no Bollocks. WCC should create more rainbow coloured crossings, fund more stuff to do with climate change and sustainability. Who cares whether you have a water shortage? You ratepayers are just there to further whichever Council is in power’s ideology and subsidise their schemes that are set up for other people and don’t work.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:21am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    A couple of cycleways will fix it, methinks.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:50am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Water services in Wellingotn province are provided by Wellington Water which is owned by the councils of the province.
    
    WCC is indeed inept, but water service problems are down to Wellington Water not managing properly including not haranguing the various Councils over the yearly priorities and funding set by the councils.
    
    If you want to hold someone accountable over Wellington water issues then look no further than Campbell Barry, Hutt City Mayor and a Labour flunkie, who is Chair of Wellington Water iirc.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:33pm
- Vinicius
  
  To further extend the muppet analogy did anyone listen to Hipkins talking to Hosking this morning? It is embarrassing that we have such a person as PM. He fudged many of the questions.
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/chris-hipkins-labour-leader-on-the-partys-poll-numbers-and-election-campaign/
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:22am
  - Bridgenag
    
    Tried to listen but couldn’t seem to get it to happen….. my fault no doubt
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:15am
    - Biscuit
      
      Keep trying, Bridgnag!
      
      Me, I think the answer to MH’s tailpiece – Why can’t anyone in the Prime Minister’s Office brief him? – has a lot to do with Jacinda ‘openly-and-transparently’ demanding that nothing be provided to her that might become an OIA investigation.
      
      So, today, we had Chippie blithely telling us that ‘several economists’ reckon we won’t be in a recession soon, if we aren’t there already; but was unable to name a single one of said economists.
      
      Realy, Chippie? An economist AGREES with you … and yet you can’t name him or her? Implausible, eh?
      
      Resign, Hipkins. Acknowledge you have been a gross waste of (our) time and an ever grosser waste of (our) money…
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:50am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What a train wreck. I can’t believe he was stupid enough to take this once in a lifetime hospital pass from Ardern.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:20am
    - newview
      
      CM I totally agree but Chris Luxon and National, if they win, could be catching a mother of a hospital pass also. We get to see the state of the nation today.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:46am
    - Dougal10
      
      He pushed her out of the way .
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:58am
      - newview
        
        Now there’s a thought. Maybe Chippy is more ambitious than he seems.
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:42am
      - greybeard
        
        I think Helen read the room and advised her to go, so as not to be an election-losing PM.
        
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        September 12, 2023 1:35pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Financial worthy it – in the short term while PM and in the long term in terms of ex-PM benefits plus of course the obligatory Knighthood …. why not take the hospital pass and take the money then run…
      
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      September 12, 2023 1:35pm
      - newview
        
        Fuck how depressing is that thought.
        
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        September 12, 2023 3:42pm
  - crikey
    
    Maybe he fudged many of the answers.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:13pm
- peterwn
  
  “Here’s a tip – fix the [expletive removed] pipes.”
  The local councils set the maintenance and renewal budget for the waterworks and consistently set an amount significantly below what is needed to keep the network in optimum condition. Furthermore leaky pipes can cause damage to roads and footpaths and councils do not seem to take this into account when setting waterworks budget.
  Before committing money to headworks (resevoirs etc) the first thing is to get consumption under control and this requires water meters. This is something many local politicians (especially left wingers) oppose. Kapiti District was forced to install water meters as the scope for more headworks was limited and the cost of piping water from the Wellington system was very high. Even when the meters were installed some councillors were pressing for them not to be used but they did not prevail. The opponents were probably the heaviest users of water much of which would have been used for discretionary activities.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:39am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Nope, disagree. My theory is that Wellingtonians use no more water than citizens of other Councils. Indeed, since pools are few, gardens seldom needing watering & most people are unable to wash their cars in the street, I think water usage is likely less than average.
    
    Water meters are expensive. Before installing them it is incumbent on the Council to prove that they are required, and that means first they should fix the [expletive removed] pipes.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:57am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Water meters are a way for inept management of the network to gouge additional funds from water users, with drops in water usage being a side benefit. The driver is gathering more cash
    
    If the system was properly maintained with sufficient storage and pipe network kept in good order there would be zero need for metering. Wellington gets some much rainfall you need to be pretty incompetent to have to run water restrictions…
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:38pm
- Spring Bank Westie
  
  A while back I saw an electronic billboard where Wellington City Council or Wellington Water were announcing “yesterday we fixed [four hundred and something, can’t remember the exact figure] water leaks”, which they seemed to be a success.
  
  I was appalled that there had been that many to fix, and that none of the dozen or more leaks I had seen that day weren’t among them.
  
  WCC have a webpage where you can point out things they need to fix, take a photo of everything you see and send it in, let’s hammer them with reminders of what we want done around the place.
  
  https://services.wellington.govt.nz/report/
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:00am
  - sirknz
    
    Auckland Council has a similar thing. Submit the job, you might get someone to look at it and nothing much seems to happen.
    
    We have a stormwater drain in a walkway behind us that overflows on to a Housing NZ property. It has been at least six months since anyone actually looked at it (and the contractor doing the work actually seemed to have a clue) and it is still overflowing. To my knowledge, they haven’t sent a robot up the pipe to check for the blockage that the vac truck can’t reach.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:00am
- rouppe
  
  Jeez Anita Baker annoys me
  
  Porirua City mayor Anita Baker said leaks were only part of the waste. “It’s not just what we’re losing; it’s what we’re using. People just turn on the tap and don’t think about it.”
  
  That’s just an attempt to distract from a major infrastructure problem.
  
  44% of water being wasted to leaks is disgraceful. Two weeks ago I alerted Porirua Council to a leaking fire hydrant in my street. Nothing has been done. It’s the same hydrant I reported in March.
  
  Do. Your. Job.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:43am
  - goNZ1
    
    plus the PCC rates are absolutely over the top,one of the highest in NZ and nothing to show for it
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:15am
    - rouppe
      
      I live in Porirua, and have a rental in Newlands. While the rates in Porirua are higher, the rates in Wellington have rapidly caught up and are now within $1000
      
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      September 12, 2023 2:06pm
  - crikey
    
    Typical diversion from a leftie. Water wastage from leaks is a separate issue from wastage. Each requires a different unrelated fix.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:16pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  WCC’s failure to invest in water infrastructure is entirely prudent when the Labour Government is promising to come along with Three Waters and have taxpayers foot the bill. Also, WCC’s failure to provide water provides justification for Three Waters. It’s a win-win!
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:39am
- Oneex
  
  My favourite little part of that article is they acknowledge that 44% of water supply is lost through leaks
  Yet the numpty mayor of Porirua has the gall to say “it’s not just what we’re losing, it’s what we’re using. People just turn the tap on and don’t think about it”
  They are responsible for almost half of the water we store leaking into the ground yet WE are the problem…..
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:58am
NeverMindTheBollocks

A study has estimated the net benefit of Auckland achieving net carbon neutral by 2050 – $111B, apparently.

But – ‘the $43 billion cost in creating a lower-emission transport system would occur early in the period’.

That’s how every scam works.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/132910664/auckland-could-be-111-billion-better-off-by-eliminating-carbon-emissions
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September 12, 2023 8:03am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I live in Ngaruawahia and want to attend a dinner on Princess Wharf. How can I get there and back on public transport?
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Take a Taxi and send the bill to Auckland Transport.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:18am
  - Matt Long
    
    I suggest a government funded Limousine, that what James Shaw would take, unless he could fit in some flights too.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:20am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      BMW Jimmy.
      
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      September 12, 2023 11:30am
  - Taieri
    
    I live in Ngaruawahia and want to attend a dinner on Princess Wharf.
    ————-
    
    You can’t. There’s no need to eat away from home while the Planet is boiling.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:27am
  - rjay
    
    Te Huia train
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:30am
    - pdm
      
      May not get there in time.
      
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      September 12, 2023 8:33am
      - Random T Person
        
        Or indeed at all
        
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        September 12, 2023 8:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Te Huia is dead – like extinct early 1900s.
      
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      September 12, 2023 3:59pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Te Huia, plan for a long trip though.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:01am
  - Hollyfield
    
    Good luck, Chuck. It took me 90 minutes to get the train from Remuera Station to Parnell Station last Saturday – a distance of less than 4km. It would have been quicker to walk, and with hindsight we probably would have.
    * Bought a ticket at the Remuera train station, the machine printed out a ticket that said “Remuera – Parnell” and was valid for 2 hours.
    * Got on the train. Train stopped at Newmarket, and I knew Parnell was the next stop.
    * Train pulled out of the Newmarket train station, but went the wrong direction. A conductor was walking along the train so I asked him. Britomart was closed in the weekends he said, so the trains weren’t going past Newmarket. He said get off the train again at Remuera and get the next train back to Newmarket then get a bus to Parnell.
    * Got off the train at Remuera and waited for the next train.
    * The next train was a “fast” one and didn’t stop at Remuera.
    * Waited for the following train, went to Newmarket and got off the train.
    * As instructed by the conductor, found someone in a pink high vis vest and asked where and what buses we can catch to Parnell. He said go out of the station, across the road, and the stop is there. Can we catch any bus I asked, he said yes.
    * We go out of the station, across the road, and then because we knew the area and were talking we carried on walking. As we approached the bus stop we saw a bus marked “rail bus” so figured that was our bus, but it didn’t stop, wasn’t even in the left lane, so we remembered that we were supposed to go out of the station and across the road but we kept walking, so we walked back to “across the road” from the railway station to find the bus stop. No bus stops, nowhere a bus can stop at all. We walk up a bit further, no bus stops. Then I realise, we came out of the train station and went straight across Broadway, maybe we should have gone out of a different door and gone across Remuera Road. So around the corner we go to Remuera Road, and yes there’s the bus stop that says “Rail Bus”.
    * The next 3 buses that come along are not Rail Buses, then I realise that the bus we saw was timed with the arrival of our train, so maybe the next Rail Bus won’t be until the next train, so we go to find a timetable.
    * The timetable says there’s a rail bus soon, but no rail buses stop at Parnell as it’s “not safe” for them to stop. So while we consider giving up on public transport and walking to Parnell I suggest we ask the next regular bus, that will stop in Parnell, if we can use our train ticket on their bus.
    * The next bus is a rail bus so we ask the driver, and he says although the Rail Buses don’t stop in Parnell, he will still drop us off in a clear bus stop in Parnell. He was exceedingly helpful.
    We have a lovely day wandering around Parnell and Newmarket, and then decide to get the train from Newmarket back to Remuera.
    * We buy our tickets, and see there are two sets of escalators. One has a big sign above it saying Britomart and West, which we knew was not where we wanted to go, and the other had a sign saying South and Onehunga, which is the one we want, and can see a train at the station, so down the escalator we go.
    * The train’s electronic sign says Onehunga, next stop Ellerslie – which is past Remuera and therefore we can’t get that train.
    * So we work out we don’t want the Onehunga Train, we need to get the South train. But the South platform’s electronic sign says no scheduled trains.
    * Then I think, the train that we came into Newmarket on was headed TO Britomart, but after we got off then went AWAY from Britomart so perhaps we need to be on the platform that says TO Britomart in order to be able to go AWAY from Britomart.
    * Back up the escalators, across to the next set of escalators and back down, and sure enough the electronic sign on the TO Britomart line says “next stop Remuera”, which is going AWAY from Britomart. (But also out of interest looked carefully around the escalators for a sign saying that Southbound travellers need the opposite platform that day, and no signs there.)
    * And we make it back to Remuera.
    
    And yes, there was a poster at the Remuera station advising of the line closure, but it wasn’t by the ticket machine and wasn’t on the platform itself, so we didn’t see it. I had even thoroughly read the website notice about the Eastern line being closed all year and determined that didn’t affect us, but didn’t see anything on the website about the Parnell Station being closed during weekends. Not saying it wasn’t there – just saying I didn’t see it even though I was looking on the website just the day before. Tourists who don’t know the area, and people for whom English is not their first language would really struggle.
    
    However, as we had no time pressures we had a lovely outing on a sunny day, and enjoyed laughing about our adventure.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:04am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      That’s a great analogy for the Labour government over the last 5 years.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:29am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Nearly as good as “Alice’s Restaurant Massacree”
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m57gzA2JCcM
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:40am
      - mandk
        
        Thanks Maggy, it has been a few years since I listened to that song. It’s a goodie, and worth 18 minutes of anyone’s day.
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:08am
    - Philip Hart
      
      Sounds like my experience albeit 10 years ago. Had to pick up a car in Newmarket. Decided to catch the train from Britomart. Right platform, right train, bought a ticket from the conductor ONBOARD for Newmarket. Train sits there for ages while I read the paper, rumbles off, over bridges and causeways, not the tunnel to Newmarket. Conductor walks past me, stops, looks at me and says “oh you are going to Newmarket?, this train goes south via Glen Innes……..” I get off at Morningside and catch a $22 taxi to Newmarket….. Never again. Sounds like it hasn’t changed
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:02am
    - Grizz
      
      Your story reminds me of a Sunday a few weeks ago I was in the University precinct on Symonds Street. I needed to meet my wife in Manukau.
      So I got a lime scooter to the Parnell train station, then eventually caught a train to Manukau station. The whole process took 90 mins and cost about 18 dollars. While on the train I had a look at my Uber Ap. For approx 24 dollars I could have caught an uber and saved an hour and had an hour more with my family. I also would not have had to run from the Manukau station to where my wife was as I was starting to run late.
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Buy a car.
      
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      September 12, 2023 11:34am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Years ago I asked my cow cocky mate how he would go finding his way from Heathrow to, say, Pimlico by public transport.
      Piece of cake, he replied.
      Well, how would you go finding your way by public transport from Mangere airport to, say, Blockhouse Bay.
      “I’d get a taxi”, he replied.
      
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      September 12, 2023 12:44pm
- kowtow
  
  Who wrote it , how much were they paid and who paid for it .
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:20am
- JimBobJoe
  
  NMTB – Climate Change, its very The Simpsons Monorail episode. Lots of hype, people caught up in it all nut its really mostly bullshit and way over priced…
  
  If people truly believed in rapid climate change, then house insurance for houses etc in potential ”underwater in 10 year zones” would be uninsurable and anything for 10 to 20 years would be very highly priced to reflect risk of increasing danger over time. Actuaries deal in facts and cold hearted, rational projections….
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:21am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Would it be unkind of me to point out that insurance companies ARE increasing prices, and not in a small way.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:04am
    - OlderChas
      
      Correct. My house insurance (property not in a flood, earthquake or other risk area and no change to sum insured or anything) went up 13.8% when the renewal came through this month.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:45am
      - wsk12345
        
        Mine went up 61% in April. Not in an area at risk of anything like flooding or tsunami or bush fire….
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:44am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        wsk12345, Ring them and tell them you are going elsewhere and would they like to do something about your premium.
        Bet you get action. If not, then shop around.
        
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        September 12, 2023 11:38am
      - Paulus
        
        EQC premium went up substantially.
        
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        September 12, 2023 1:34pm
    - Taieri
      
      They do. Although I live exactly 100 metres above the sea level and in low seismic risk area my house insurance premiums went up more than 100% in the last 5 years or so. This, despite no claims of any kind.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:49am
      - Paulus
        
        You didn’t claim but thousands did at huge claims costs.
        
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        September 12, 2023 1:35pm
    - JimBobJoe
      
      Great – but how much of your insurance premium increases are related to Climate Change and how much is recouping losses from, and pricing in further, earthquake damage payouts???
      
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      September 12, 2023 1:43pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    Yes. The couple up the road who just built a brand new house a metre from the high tide mark can’t surely have any insurance for their, oh, $5m property.
    
    And it makes you wonder how they got a building consent because they don’t let you build on dodgy ground in flood zones.
    
    But the did on both counts.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:57am
- sirknz
  
  ‘Could’ is doing a lot of work in that headline.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:10am
Luke Piewalker

Anyone still think Labour won’t go below 20%
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September 12, 2023 8:03am
- peterwn
  
  In National’s case low 50’s might possibly be achievable.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:13am
  - Paulus
    
    Looks like 48% National and 24% Labour – Act making a fool of himself down to 10%.
    Greens 10% as usual.
    9% rats and mice but not Winston.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:41am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think it is very unlikely that Labour will go below 20 percent..
  
  I will make a firm prediction. Julie Ann Genter will win Rongatai. I aluded to such an outcome last week. A fellow commenter scoffed at me. Sorry can’t recall who.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:17am
  - Tempist
    
    But how could that happen, Labour have already anointed Paul Eagle’s successor (who was Annette King’s successor)?!?
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:25am
  - zulumonster
    
    Sadly that is a good chance Benedict. I will be voting for Nicole McKee as I think she would actually make a good electorate MP.
    Genter or Fitzsimons would do nothing positive for the area – although they would be a lot more visible than the useless Paul Eagle. And the National candidate doesn’t have any profile in the area.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:25am
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      +1 for Nicole
      
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      September 12, 2023 8:45am
      - peterwn
        
        Hope that Nicole tells her leader to stop making an ass of himself. Anyway would think he is working for Labour.
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:03am
  - RightNow
    
    A tactical electorate vote for JAG in Rongotai would help prevent FF getting in. It’s not like the electorate will swing right, and JAG gets in on the list anyway.
    Vote her in as an electorate MP and Fitzsimons doesn’t get her foot in the door.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:43am
  - goNZ1
    
    Rongotai can have her too , they must love sitting in the traffic snarl ups around Mt Vic and the Basin thanks to the Greens absolutely infesting Lets Get Wellington Not Moving
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:22am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Will JAG live in the heart of electorate, i.e. east of the tunnel?
      
      I’m sure she’d like to shared the lived experience of her constituents.
      
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      September 12, 2023 1:00pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    “. A fellow commenter scoffed at me. Sorry can’t recall who.”
    
    That would be Karen, the Hall Monitor.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:03pm
- Vinicius
  
  The PREFU won’t help them in polls and if Chippy gives more interviews like the one with Mike Hosking this morning, they could test the 20% limit.
  
  I don’t think they will go below 20%. I predict 20-24% party vote.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:27am
  - Ruawai
    
    Another Hipkins Labour lie, “Most economists see an improvement in the economy” said Hipkins on ZB this morning.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:04am
    - alwyn.a
      
      No, that is a true statement.
      As one economist I know said.
      “Of course I can see an improvement in the New Zealand economy. We will get rid of these fools who make up the current Government. Anything will be better.”
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:40am
  - Scooter
    
    Loved Mike’s last comment after his interview with Hipkins “Can someone in the Prime Minister’s office turn up to work and brief the guy, how hard is it otherwise resign”. I wonder if he meant the staffer or Hipkins to resign. Moot point come Oct.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:06am
    - Vinicius
      
      Perhaps Chippy’s advisors are too busy looking for new jobs post the election?
      
      Got to say one thing, I didn’t like Helen Clark’s politics at all but she wouldn’t have shown up completely unprepared like Hipkins did.
      
      28 0
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      September 12, 2023 9:19am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Possibly a reflection of what Helen Clark would have had to do to succeed at school, compared to what Ardern/Hipkins would have had to do to succeed at school…
        
        14 0
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        September 12, 2023 9:47am
      - goNZ1
        
        Chippie knows the game is up and that after his party sacks him Labour will lurch to the left even further
        
        14 0
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        September 12, 2023 10:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Hipkins knew Ardern was resigning before last Christmas.
        
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        September 12, 2023 11:44am
    - David Garrett
      
      Scooter: I don’t listen to Hosking – I live most of the time in Tonga – but after listening to that disastrous interview with Hapless Hipkins I now understand why The Princess refused to be interviewed by him.
      
      A total fucking train wreck for “Chippie”.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:24am
      - Ra Henare
        
        David, you will be familiar with group think.
        Most people dont like to back losers.
        Hence, with all the media attention(negative) for labour.
        It would be against the theory ogf group think to vote Labour.
        
        The group think thing happened in 2020 that ascended Jacinda to the throne.
        
        So the real question is not who I will vote for to win. But who will I NOT vote for!!
        
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        September 12, 2023 12:46pm
      - Scooter
        
        I think he was abit softer with her but even so you could tell she was getting rattled by the number of times she said Mike, it was quite funny to hear.
        
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        September 12, 2023 6:58pm
  - ecco
    
    That interview with Hosking was hilarious. Hipkins bumbling and stumbling the most I’ve ever heard him do. I thought Hosking might go easy on him, feeling sorry for him… but no!
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:34am
- David Garrett
  
  Luke: I do wish you and others would stop counting chickens before they have hatched. The election is a month away; an eternity in politics.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:51am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Labour’s commentariat and Twitterati are placing much faith in Tame’s Q&A weekend hit job on Luxon, followed up by Trevett’s complementary support article to Tame’s attack in the Herald…
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:55am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Suze, have you seen the viewing numbers for Q&A? Only the political tragic watch it. So, the damage is actually minimal or non-existent.
      
      Yesterday, on HDPA, even Richard Hills (a Labour councillor) admitted, Luxon answered the question, it was Tame who didn’t want to move on, and it was Tame who did damage to himself.
      
      Hence the Labour trolls can say what they like, as someone wrote in the post about last night’s poll,
      
      “the phone is off the hook & the voters are not listening”.
      
      Hills said it last night, and Hosking said it this morning, Luxon would need a monumental fail, in order for things to change the direction & momentum.
      
      For a change, it can be said that opposition are winning this election race. The fact that Labour are screwing up so badly, is a completely different matter & something that all their wishful hoping that Luxon will trip up, is just that, wishful hoping….
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:45am
  - GregM
    
    Tonga is a wonderful Kingdom David, I love the place.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:59am
- alex Masterley
  
  I hope not.
  If that happens we have the same sort of situation we faced in 2020 but in reverse.
  An opposition with sufficient numbers of MPs is required to challenge and test government policy.
  As we have seen with the incumbent administration it becomes easy to sneak legislation through without proper consideration and debate.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:17am
  - Scott
    
    Let’s not over think this. Labour is the worst government we have ever had. The most controlling, the most radical, the most secretive about their real racial agenda.
    They should be sent to electoral oblivion till they reform their ways. Not being neo Marxist control freaks would be a good start. 😊
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:52am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Are you not over thinking things?
    
    Where is the evidence that a National/Act government will behave the same?
    
    Significant legislation was passed under urgency over the last 4 weeks. So of it will need to go back for repealing or redrafting it is that bad.
    
    I know my local MP/candidate, and if National are forming the next government, I know he will get reminders not to behave in the same manner as the Labour & Labour/NZF cabinets of 2017/20 & 2020/23. 😉
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:53am
kevn

Luke… Something beginning with a 1 (one) as in less than 20 is highly likely.
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September 12, 2023 8:09am
In Vino Veritas

I note that Luxon has come out and said that Peters statement that Maori are not indigenous is wrong. What is the matter with people?
Collins Concise Dictionary:
1. originating or occurring naturally (in a country, region, etc); native.
As far as I know, and given Maori oral history, Maori are not indigenous to NZ and Peters is correct. How bloody difficult is this?
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September 12, 2023 8:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  What would have happened if Luxon had said “Yeah Maori are not the indigenous people of New Zealand. Good on Winston.”? 🤯
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:20am
  - pdm
    
    BY some of us might have cheered him on.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:30am
  - Cassandra
    
    He can hedge. Something like “technically Peters may be right” and then go on to say that the Indigenous Treaty has been misinterpreted and National will withdraw. Throw in a kick at He Pua Pua
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:37am
  - imalwaysright
    
    B.Y
    
    What would have happened is that the majority of the country would have agreed with him.
    
    Your “Good on Winston” is superfluous and seems designed to conflate agreeing with Winston’s statement with political support for Winston .
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:37am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Why is acknowledging someone for telling the truth conflated with political support for someone???
      
      The truth is the truth and it has been totally missing in action in this country for a while, particularly during the last three years. We could do with an awful lot more of it. No matter who is saying it.
      
      That’s why I’m an undecided voter, I will vote for whoever speaks the most truth.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:47am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I agree with you Clan.
        
        There seems to be an attitude that agreeing with something someone says means that you agree with everything they say.
        
        Its a bit childish and somewhat lazy as we have noted.
        
        The three main opposition parties seem to agree on the vast majority of policies, therefore disagreement for the sake of it is tantamount to an own goal.
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:00am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        imalwaysright – spot on. As a species we will rarely if ever agree on everything. That’s the part of the beauty of life, individuality and differences.
        
        One of the most tyrannical moments during covid was the whole ‘single source of truth’ comment. It was a revelation for many people.
        
        Robust debate should always be encouraged, never stifled.
        
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        September 12, 2023 11:40am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Other than a media frenzy and Jackson and a few other hard core activist Maoris having a meltdown Ben, nothing (I’d humbly suggest it would win him more votes than those lost). And I think your last sentence is being a little bit disingenuous, he wouldn’t have to couch it like that at all. The question is, when do we stop letting people make things up that can have a significant effect on everyone else (for instance, Maori claim inferred rights under the UN Declaration on Indigenous Peoples)? Much as I despise Peters, he is correct. If he is factually correct, should Luxon deny that, just because others who have a different political bent will attack him? As Sir Bob Jones has said “Right now Luxon could rape a nun, that’s if he can find one, and while it would cost him votes, there’d still be a new government in October”.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:39am
  - kowtow
    
    What would have happened if he had turned the question back on the reporter ( soemthing he seems unable to do in a stand up) and asked ;
    
    why does it matter , we’re all citizens equal before the law.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:39am
  - Prince
    
    In Vino Veritas would have been happy (but not change his vote), and National would drop 5 points.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:45am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      5%? as Daryl Kerrigan once famously said “tell ‘im he’s dreamin’. What percentage of Maori vote National? And what percentage of european progressives vote National? Remember, they are only getting 35-40% of the vote.
      
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      September 12, 2023 8:56am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      So the advice to politicians is, tell lies to win elections? Now we know why they do it so much and are so good at it.
      No wonder trust in politicians is in the gutter along with the media presstitutes. It’s tragic.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:53am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    What would have happened? Are you suggesting he’d be politically damaged for telling the truth?
    Sadly you are likely correct.
    
    The same has happened with covid narrative. Nobody is allowed to mention the word, let alone discuss the levels of destruction inflicted. That all of that damage was for nothing, that the jabs don’t work and it increasingly looks like they are doing more harm than good. That people are dying and getting sicker because of it.
    But to tell the truth and admit this would be politically damaging.
    
    The climate narrative is not remotely settled, but we apparently must adhere to this ideological cult and not question it. When it comes to climate this is another ‘single source of truth’.
    
    So this is what politics has descended to in NZ. The truth is toxic. The narrative is everything.
    
    No wonder western society is crumbling.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:41am
  - Che Guava
    
    “What would have happened if Luxon had said “Yeah Maori are not the indigenous people of New Zealand. Good on Winston.”?”
    
    Because they aren’t indigenous, he’d have been commended by many for telling a hard truth and stating what they themselves think in private. Who cares if the usual suspects reacted badly?
    
    This “we can’t tell people the hard truths because they might get offended” is completely delusional thinking, is a self-imposed handicap and, quite frankly, it is a very feminine attitude. We’re well past declining to tell the truth just to avoid offending people who will hate or dislike us regardless.
    
    Besides, I couldn’t care less if Maori were in fact indigenous to these shores: how would it follow from this that they should be given unearned power and resources in 2023? Moreover, look at Europe: the indigenous Europeans are being systematically diversified out of existence, and nobody other than they cares at all that they have ancestry going back millennia on the continent.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:53am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The normal meaning of indigenous is someone who is descended from the first people to live in that place. That would include Maori as nobody was here before they arrived.
  
  The way Peters defines it where you are not indigenous if your ancestors came from another place, all humans would be indigenous to Ethiopia and nowhere else. Which makes the term pretty useless. Though making it useless is not necessarily bad.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:30am
  - pdm
    
    Nigel – Moriori were in NZ before Maori as far as I am aware.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:31am
    - Cassandra
      
      No, Moriori we’re a branch of Maori. Arrived at same time.
      
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      September 12, 2023 8:38am
      - Matt Long
        
        And yet different groups of Maori are supposed to have arrived at different times.
        
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        September 12, 2023 9:41am
      - goNZ1
        
        apparently they tasted a lot better so have all disappeared
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:31am
      - wsk12345
        
        Why did we make settlements to the moriori from the Maori ( paid for by the rest of us) then?
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:51am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      There is a myth of Maruiwi, such as Eldson Best included in his history of Maori “The Maori as He Was” just over 100 years ago, but even by reprinting in the 1950s this is ruled out in the pre-face: there were better facts known about the pre-history of NZ. e.g. “The Coming of the Maori” by Sir Peter Buck and emerging archeaology which dispelled the idea of a more primative Melanesian people being here.
      Some early writings (late 19th century) from site excavations mused that the ‘moahunter’ people were different to the Maori. But they were not – they are materially close to the people of Rarotonga and such of 1,000 years ago.
      
      The Moriori are the people of the Chatham islands, and a branch of the same East Polynesia Archaic peoples.
      
      They were all but wiped out as a distinct people when Taranaki iwi travelled there and ‘walked the land’ (killed, ate and enslaved).
      The Moriori is NOT a name for people here before the Maori, as the people the local traditions speak of are only other Polynesians displaced or absorbed by movement of other groups.
      There is no material culture, linquistic or anthropogical evidence of seperate peoples being here.
      
      Suggested reading ‘Moriori; A people rediscovered” by Micheal King, or ‘The Moahunter Period of Maori culture’ by Roger Duff (1970s edition) or ‘Prehistory of NZ’ by Janet Davidson.
      
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      September 12, 2023 1:25pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Which is why in Alaska for example the descendants of the original immigrants use the phrase “First Nations”, which is really more useful.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:45am
    - kowtow
      
      Only they aren’t and never were a “nation”.Possibly weren’t “first” either.
      
      Yet another far left political construct to beat the ‘colonist’ with .
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:15am
  - Swifty
    
    No, I must disagree, the ‘normal’ definition i.e. the one in use up until very recently was just as IVV says – native to, originating from, occurring naturally from etc.
    
    I agree that the new ‘normal’, as the UN changed it, is now ‘first people, now a minority, not the ‘dominant’ culture etc etc.
    
    The UN just grabbed a word and changed the meaning. And this is the ‘new’ meaning which conveniently allows Maori to claim ‘indigenous’ when they in fact arrived on these shores just a few centuries before whitey and aren’t native to NZ, didn’t originate from here nor did they occur naturally.
    
    But here’s a test . Maori brought two animals with them when they arrived. The Maori rat and the Maori dog (kuri). Ask anyone, are those two animals indigenous to NZ? No one will say yes. They will all say no, they are introduced here. They’re not native.
    
    Why the difference?
    
    Are we having the wool pulled over our eyes?
    
    🎼 One of these things is not like the others 🎶
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:45am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Swifty, I looked at the UN Indigenous Declaration a long time ago, and I remember thinking they didn’t define “indigenous”. There were a few studies done back in the 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s that offered a definition, but none were adopted. For instance, in the “Concept of Indigenous Peoples” part of the conclusion is: 8. Similarly, in the case of the concept of “indigenous peoples”, the prevailing view today is that no formal universal definition of the term is necessary”. Though they do also say that a definition provided by Martinez Cobo in 1987 is commonly accepted (by the UN). Of course, this means commonly accepted by the UN. And is meaningless to anyone else.
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:14am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        There is no single agreed definition of indigenous peoples in Martinez Cobo’s report.
        
        His Chapter 4 makes it pretty clear that it is up to “indigenous” people (always a minority group) to define themselves.
        
        https://www.un.org/esa/socdev/unpfii/documents/MCS_v_en.pdf
        
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        September 12, 2023 9:51am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        The fact that there is an argument re the definition of the word ‘indigenous’ means the whole concept is nonsensical.
        What difference does it make in the bigger scheme of things? Unless it can be used as a weapon to gain some preferential treatment? It’s a bizarre situation.
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:16am
      - wsk12345
        
        Sorry clan – Downtick was not intended!
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:53am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Sorry Nigel, disagree. I posted the normal meaning of indigenous – originating or occurring naturally. Taken from my 20 year old dictionary (and replicated in another, different 20 year old dictionary). Peters is defining it so. And that is why Aboriginal people are indigenous, 55,000 years and no one knows where they came from. We know where Maori came from, as they have told us. Ergo, they cannot be indigenous. In terms of your Ethiopia comment, agree. And then all discussions on “indigenous rights” would be moot. However, in the mean time, the meaning of the word is being changed to suit the wants of Maori.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:51am
  - Kiwiguy
    
    I can see this topic in Parliament descending into a debate on the definition of ‘indigenous’.
    The left will have their own meaning that suits them, of course.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:55am
    - NothingLeft
      
      I’ve been in NZ almost twice as long as average (26.5yr old is median age) self identifying Maori. So obviously I deserve far more privilege and special treatment in law than them.
      
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      September 12, 2023 1:38pm
  - Jack5
    
    Leftist activists, whipped in the capitalism v Marxism struggle, created an international rallying issue they branded indigenous rights.
    
    It’s another activist side to the pseudo-intellectual bullshit of Critical Race Theory.
    
    Is Peters talking about the history and meaning of the word “indigenous”? He could dispel some of the activist fog if he did.
    
    Re Nigel Kearney’s post above: … The normal meaning of indigenous is someone who is descended from the first people to live in that place.
    
    Consider the definition of “indigenous” in the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary 1973 edition.
    
    After noting the link to “indigene” from 1664 as “native”, the dictionary defines “indigenous”:
    
    1646
    1. Born or produced naturally in a land or region; native to (the soil, region etc).
    
    1864
    b. (In transferred and figurative use) Inborn, innate.
    
    1844
    b. Native, vernacular.
    
    The dictionary defines vernacular as domestic, native indigenous.
    
    Nor any use looking to a modern source in another major country of English speakers. The American Heritage Dictionary” defines indigenous as: 1. Occurring or living naturally in a particular area or environment. 2 Intrinsic; innate
    
    The meanings go back to the Latin word indigena. And that means? “A native”.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:38am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Nigel Kearney – according to the Cambridge Dictionary.
    
    Meaning of indigenous in English
    
    indigenous
    adjective
    US /ɪnˈdɪdʒ.ə.nəs/ UK /ɪnˈdɪdʒ.ɪ.nəs/
    
    used to refer to, or relating to, the people who originally lived in a place, rather than people who moved there from somewhere else
    
    But we’ve had a few years of words having their definition changed to suit a political agenda. It was particularly rife during covid.
    
    We saw words like ‘case’, ‘pandemic’ and in particular ‘vaccine’ have their long recognised definitions changed.
    
    We truly are living in Orwellian times.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:03am
  - Taieri
    
    The normal meaning of indigenous is someone who is descended from the first people to live in that place.
    ————
    
    So, according to this definition a hypothetical person born in Australia, with one Maori great-grand parent, and 7 non-Maori great-grand parents would be considered indigenous if currently living in NZ. But another hypothetical person, say, a 7th generation New Zealander, without any Maori ancestors, and also currently living in NZ is not indigenous to NZ (or any other place for that matter). And another hypothetical person, born and living in NZ, of mixed ancestry, say, English, Chinese, Irish, Italian and German would not be indigenous to any part of the world, why?
    
    Recently, I was reading about an artist. All her tribal connections were listed after her name. I happen to know a bit about her family background. Not sure whether her mother was fully descended from the Maori, but her father was born and grew up in the former Czechoslovakia and lives there to this day. Does it make her indigenous to both places?
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:04am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    If the meaning is ‘originated’ in a certain place (as it should do imo) then every single child that was born here is indigenous, regardless of where their parents came from.
    
    That definition should be written in stone. Stop this racially divisive argument that Maori are somehow ‘special’ and let us get on with fixing the bloody place to make it better for everyone.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:13am
- kevn
  
  We are all immigrant settlers, some came earlier than others and multiplied with the later arrivals…
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I am definitely NOT an immigrant settler.
    
    I was born here, raised here by NZ citizens, and enculturated by the NZ politico-social system.
    
    Now it is true that 3 of my Gd parents and my father arrived in this country as settlers….. but I didn’t.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:59am
- Unity
  
  They used to say what boats they arrived on so how can they be indigenous? They originally came in boasts like the rest of us. David Rankin, the Nga Puhi Elder from Northland said that in stories handed down, there were always people here when they arrived.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:37am
  - goNZ1
    
    yep – ol mate Te Rauparaha found fibre optic cables on Kapiti Island when he was chased there back in the day…
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:37am
- The Veteran
  
  There are various dictionary definitions of what constitutes ‘indigenous’ From Wiki … “Indigenous peoples are the first inhabitants of an area and their descendants”.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:40am
  - Swifty
    
    Yep, the new freshly-minted definition. Not the one in use for centuries and until very recently.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:01am
  - kowtow
    
    There’s also the political meaning;
    
    these people have more rights than others .
    
    Very Orwellian.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:10am
  - Swifty
    
    Are the descendants of the kuri and Maori rat classed as indigenous, or are they all grouped under the classification of ‘introduced’?
    
    Are Hereford cattle or Romney sheep alive in New Zealand classed as ‘indigenous’? After all they are the descendants of the first cattle and sheep to arrive in NZ.
    
    There’s your answer if you care to look.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:21am
  - Jack5
    
    Sought a definition of “indigenous” on Bing’s AI search. It came up with:
    
    “The most widely accepted definition of indigenous now is based on the recognition of the rights, cultures, and identities of the original inhabitants of various lands who have been colonized, oppressed, or marginalized by others.”
    
    So the word’s been politicised by the Woke, by the Left, just as the words democracy and democrat were grabbed by the totalitarian Left. That led to East Germany as the German Democratic Republic and to Kim Jong Un’s Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.
    
    Still, the original meaning of “democrat” endured, so let’s fight to keep the original meaning of “indigenous” alive.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:29pm
- Paulus
  
  Look up the word Aboriginal and see where that brings us !
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:43am
- cmm
  
  A bunch of politicians are jumping in and calling Winston “divisive”.
  
  Really?
  
  Compared to the whole Maori first policy of Labour, National, Greens, TPM,…
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:45am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Don’t forget the covid policies. No apologies for bringing it up again. These were the most egregious ever inflicted on NZ citizens.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:21am
    - kowtow
      
      No one should apologise for bringing up or reminding all of covid .
      
      We’ll be living with the costs of this disastrous reaction to the lab leak for generations .
      
      And if we’re not careful , vigilant and questioning the Pollies will pull something equally outrageous again , afterall they got away with it this time.
      
      In no small measure due to the media failing to hold power to account.
      
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      September 12, 2023 12:23pm
- David Garrett
  
  In vino: As difficult as it is for me to agree with Peters, he is right on this…of course he is only saying it now to appeal to his grey power audience, who have always been more than a little frightened of “uppity Maoris”
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:53am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    David, I feel your pain as I am no Peters fan at all.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:17am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    As the old saying goes, “sometimes the truth hurts”.
    
    But it’s always the truth.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:23am
  - Scott
    
    I would say his grey power audience actually want everyone to be treated the same and if people get ahead they get ahead by merit and not race. I would say his grey power audience remember the wonderful law abiding egalitarian country we inherited and which our ruling class are stuffing up in their ingratitude.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:57am
  - Flossie
    
    DG – What basis do you have to say grey power members are and have always been “more than a little frightened of “uppity Maoris”?
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:20am
- Rusty
  
  @Vino.
  
  I think Winston Peters should leave it alone on the origins of indigenous peoples in this country.
  
  Does it matter?
  
  For example he also said the Aboriginal people are the true indigenous people of Australia because they have lived there for over 50, 000 years.
  
  Ok then where did the Aboriginal people come from before that?
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:01am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Rusty, understand. However, giving Maori indigenous rights allows them to claim rights under the UN Indigenous Peoples Declaration (even though it is only a declaration, not a legally binding document – you just KNOW how things will turn out). In terms of Aboriginal’s, that is the point, their origins are unknown, therefore, they are indigenous to Australia. However, read Nigel’s post above, if it can be proven that we all came from one place, the concept of “indigenous” dies on the spot.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:20am
    - Jack5
      
      The National Government under John Key in 2010 signed the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.
      
      When Key was a currency trader, a blunder on this scale might have cost his boss, or his client, a few tens of millions of dollars, but would be quickly made up by his smarter guesses after morning coffee.
      
      What NZ signed up with the UN declaration is in the link below.
      
      The Third World-dominated UN is in many ways a black cloud over NZ. Think of it selecting our refugee intake, rubbishing us on human rights, and running our race relations.
      
      Think of the UN’s World Health Organisation cover up for China early in the Covid epidemic.
      
      What Key got us into, and it possibly includes separatism like racially splitting our national health system:
      
      https://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/a-matou-whakaarotau/te-ao-maori/un-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:19am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        It wasn’t really a blunder unless we act on it Jack. And there is no compunction to act on a Declaration. it isn’t international law. It’s typical UN touchy feely bollocks that seems to slant entirely to the views of the disaffected and leftists.
        
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        September 12, 2023 11:11am
      - Jack5
        
        The Ministry of Maori Development (Te Puni Kokiri) has this on its web site, linked to in my post at 10.19:
        
        Heading:
        UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
        
        Detail:
        New Zealand is committed to improving outcomes for Maori in areas such as health and housing as part of our Declaration obligations …
        
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        September 12, 2023 1:03pm
      - stiff cheese
        
        Why didn’t Key tell the UN “I won’t sign this now, we’re having an election next year so I want to run it past the NZ people first…. We’ll campaign on it, it’ll be in our manifesto (not hidden), and after the election I’ll be able to say my government has a mandate to sign this declaration.” ?
        
        What will Luxon sign us up to without a mandate, or any kind of public debate? … The W.H.O Pandemic Treaty?
        
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        September 12, 2023 2:47pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      All humans come from the Great Rift Valley
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:00pm
  - Colville
    
    Winston is just doing shock and awe to try to raise his profile.
    Looks like this time there is a united front against him tho.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:24am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Why should he leave it alone? There are people pushing divisive and potentially destructive, racially driven policies which only get oxygen because of this claim of being indigenous.
    
    Even IF it was true, which it almost certainly isn’t, why should that cede special treatment?
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:26am
  - goNZ1
    
    Abbos came from Manus Island after they got chucked out for ripping floor boards up in their state houses and having a fire in the lounge
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:40am
- Stellaboxer
  
  What I find strange is that if Maori are in fact indigenous how come the pacific rat they brought with them is considered introduced and not native. Seems terminology is very fluid when the politics need.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:40am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Yes, it’s hard on the rats. They have buried 10 times more generations of ancestors here than the Maoris!
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:29am
- septic skeptic
  
  I think I agree with Luxon’s response on this one. Peters is sowing division for his own benefit, no one else’s.
  IMO if we had a decent constitution and political framework with equal rights for all, then the issue of indigenous or first immigrants is mostly just semantics. The end game should be a cohesive society.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:26am
- Trev
  
  Peter’s is almost correct in his saying that genetics point to Maori to having come from China. The genetic trail goes back to the hill tribes of Taiwan. Mind you how many hundred years in a place before you are regarded as indigenous?
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:45am
- mw
  
  It is strange that online the oxford has this –
  
  2. (of people) inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or from before the arrival of colonists.
  
  Very strange as my printed copy doesn’t have that definition, it’s almost as if it is one of the new definitions that seems to be creeping in to dictionaries.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:58am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    MW surely the first colonists in New Zealand were Māori?
    
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    September 12, 2023 12:08pm
- Ehlana
  
  There’s the dictionary meaning of a word, and then there are other meanings specific to certain circumstances or groups. The United Nations has a specific use which refers to groups who “have retained social, cultural, economic and political characteristics that are distinct from those of the dominant societies in which they live.”
  
  By that definition, of course, not many people are indigenous to the country they live in. If your culture is dominant in your country, you’re not indigenous, no matter how long your tribe has been there.
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

What time do the books open?
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September 12, 2023 8:15am
- Chuck Bird
  
  1 PM
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:17am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Just prior to the floodgates……
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:32am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I hear Air NZ launches their new one-way grab-a-seat specials at 1.05 p.m.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:12am
- Opie
  
  I just have this vision of Robertson holding the books and refusing to open them and then running away
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:37am
Matt Long

I don’t wish harm to come to anyone but if someone is to be assaulted by out of control criminals, it’s certainly better it be someone who promoted defunding the police than someone innocent.
It may even be a learning experience.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/dem-party-chairwoman-once-called-defund-police-carjacked-assaulted-minneapolis
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September 12, 2023 8:17am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Mugged by reality – literally
  Ms Sathanandan , a vice chairwoman of Minnesota’s Democrat-Farmer-Labor party:
  
  2020:
  
  “We are going to dismantle the Minneapolis Police Department. Say it with me. Dismantle. The. Minneapolis. Police. Department.”
  
  2023:
  
  ….catch these young people who are running wild creating chaos across our city and HOLD THEM IN CUSTODY AND PROSECUTE THEM.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:06am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Thanks Mod.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:11am
  - alex Masterley
    
    I laughed when I read that.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:28am
- Raphael
  
  New Yorkers are also up in arms about illegal immigrants.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:10am
  - kowtow
    
    Typical nimby’s.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:18am
- ClanMcleod
  
  The harsh realities of life supersede ideology every single time.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:30am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Shorter Ms, Sathanandan:
    
    If only Stalin knew
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:50am
Warren

I wonder if all those that rubbished Chris Luxon and his performance on Q/A over the weekend have bothered to listen to the shipwreck of Chris Hipkins on Mike Hoskings this morning.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/chris-hipkins-labour-leader-on-the-partys-poll-numbers-and-election-campaign/
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September 12, 2023 8:19am
- rockape
  
  Yet I hear all the time that in a debate the experienced Hipkins will win. Well the winner of a debate is usually the one across all the facts and Hipkins shows time and time again that isn’t him. This morning was yet another example.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:50am
Tom Hunter

A day to be proud
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September 12, 2023 8:20am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Two posts from yesterday.

1. https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/try-our-new-treaty-of-waitangi-quiz/
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September 12, 2023 8:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
  
  2. https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/luxon-continues-to-be-a-huge-problem/
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:46am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “National Is Starting To Copy The Deceitfulness Of Labour”
    Luxon is for Co-Governance.
    See blog.
    
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    September 12, 2023 8:53am
    - Warren
      
      Why has David Seymour said this then.
      https://www.act.org.nz/act_welcomes_luxon_s_support_for_referendum
      
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      September 12, 2023 9:25am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Luxon is both for and against, depending on who he is talking to.
        
        https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Stuart-Smith-Kaikoura-MP-National.pdf
        
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        September 12, 2023 10:15am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Steve, what in that exchange that showed that Luxon is in favour of Co-governance?
        
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        September 12, 2023 2:19pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        hullkiwi,
        best you read the http://www.stopcogovernace.kiwi website.
        You can search, not me.
        
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        September 12, 2023 4:18pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  36/40. Must try harder.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:49am
ecco

Interesting watching the bought out media change tack and write about last night’s poll. Coughlan in the Ferald can barely get his words out. Hipkins is ‘unlucky’ he says. Tova over at $$tuffed is the same. I don’t even click on her articles. She has zero credibility.

You know Hipkins will try and spin it after the election landslide loss and say he inherited a toxic mess. Wonder where he is planning to go after the election. He has no marketable skills.

Coughlan says he can’t quite work out what went wrong for Labour. He has got to be kidding! Just read the few articles they allow commenting on to know what went wrong!

Or try putting yourselves in the shoes of middle nz who are facing skyrocketing food prices, interest rates going through the roof and petrol prices going up over $3 and increasing daily.

Tries to say Act is in trouble when clearly Seymour is just making sure there are no gremlins in the cupboard which the feral media would seize on at any opportunity after the change of government.

Will be a long 5 weeks for Hipkins and co. Haha. All the ridiculous bribes being put out there now are being seen through even by the very people he is targeting as just pie in the sky desperate acts by a captain on a sinking ship.
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September 12, 2023 8:21am
- kowtow
  
  Constant theme in te media pahti over Act losing a few candidates .
  
  Not so much constantly in the “news” about Labour losing so many ministers .
  
  Which is more relevant.
  
  But then this media are bought and paid for by the regime and were willing sellers , which is a disgrace to them and an affront to our democratic principles .
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:58am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    ACT seem to be cutting their anti-mandate candidates. It’s unfortunate but makes sense. The fact is that Covid is Labour’s biggest hail mary that could get them back in power. ACT have undermined that by removing their targets.
    Just like National punishing van de Molen when he did nothing wrong – it completely takes the air out of Labour’s attacks.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:12am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      “It’s unfortunate”, yes, and it was “unfortunate” that people died after being coerced to take part in a medical experiment, and it was “unfortunate” that thousands were injured and it was “unfortunate” that so many lost their jobs and businesses and marriages and relationships and were segregated and discriminated against.
      
      Smells like Berlin circa 1935 to me and it stinks.
      
      I find it extremely troubling that fellow citizens can acquiesce with this continued othering of innocent people.
      
      Maybe I’m politically naive, maybe Luxon and Seymour will get into power and immediately condemn all of the covid policies. Maybe they will announce an immediate Royal Commission with no restriction on the Terms of Reference. Maybe they will apologise to all of the people whose lives were destroyed?
      
      I live in hope, faint hope, but we’ll see what happens.
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:57am
    - kowtow
      
      That’s one interpretation and a very generous one .
      
      I view it as them all toeing the line , the Blob line .( a bit like how no one is allowed /dares to genuinely question the climate change narrative.
      
      ‘Diversity’ is the in thing , as long as the “diversity” is the approved or cough cough “mandated” one.
      
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      September 12, 2023 11:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Coughlan says he can’t quite work out what went wrong for Labour.”
  
  Vaccine mandates that wrecked lives.
  
  Health system wrecked.
  
  Education system wrecked.
  
  Totally stupid COVID money printing and housing boom.
  
  $16 per kg Kumara.
  
  $3 petrol.
  
  Plus 278 other things if I had the time.
  
  Seriously, every time someone walks into the fruit and vege shop or fills up the car with petrol, they curse the government. It is simple as that.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:59am
  - kowtow
    
    He tries to pin point the decline to the period where they lost Wood and Allen .
    
    It started long before that . In my opinion possibly when they lost Auckland with the screw overs , aka lockdowns.Perhaps when people were shocked by the regime /police attack on the peaceful parliament protesters ……..
    
    Labour badly misjudged and overplayed their covid hand , I wonder were they listening to focus groups getting it wrong again , a mystery overseas caller telling her how catastrophic it was , hubris perhaps that they believed their own invincibility and bull …….. or just people wearying of Ardern.( cos she was all they had).
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:13am
- Paulus
  
  My Mercury Energy Gas Bill increases has just this moment arrived, full of no real explanation, just we want more money for our huge increased profits from you.
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:47pm
john1234

Caption competition:
https://tinyurl.com/ya3fyr7r
“Scientists searching for source of truth black holes make stunning discovery.”
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September 12, 2023 8:24am
- sirknz
  
  Smells like bovine processed nitrogenous waste compounds in here
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:52am
Matt Long

The Fifth Circuit or Federal Appeals Court has upheld an injunction against US Government interference with free speech on social media.
https://twitter.com/bariweiss/status/1701249065579671601
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September 12, 2023 8:25am
PeeJay

So, PREFU today.

General consensus is that it will be pretty grim reading.

My own thoughts are that Robertson will have thrown enough hypothetical “savings” into departmental budgets to try and take the sting out of quite how bad it is – expect to hear it’s bad but it’s on the right track (global factors obviously – nothing to do with government spending / waste!). I suspect that it will only be after a few days of number crunching (and ignoring Robertsons bullshit spin) that the picture will emerge about just how bad things are looking.

Anyone feeling confident in relation to making alternative predictions?
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September 12, 2023 8:26am
- Paulus
  
  Remember Cullen told them to omit the ACC billion dollar claims reserve account.
  Took 4 years to correct.
  Robertson was around then.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:46am
- Gravelroad
  
  I feel confident to contribute that many people have never heard of the PREFU and don’t care anyway.
  Those who believe in Hipkins and Robertson will still admire and support them, no matter what it says.
  Who can believe anything that comes out of this government and their enablers?
  The figures will be manipulated and spun to achieve an acceptable result.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:30am
- ecco
  
  Interesting listening to Bagrie on the AM show (6.19am on Tuesdays) saying that NZ’s Debt to GDP ratio that Labour uses is 20% (and Robertson loves to say that’s better than other countries – especially if you alter the calculation method like Labour did)
  
  But if you take out the NZ Superfund balance from the calcualtion it’s 34%, which is a much sicker Debt to GDP ratio for such a small country.
  
  To cut a long story short, NZ Inc is in the crap due to the Labour Governments’s taxpayer borrowings in the name of covid response. Will be a hell of a mess for the incoming government to fix up.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:41am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “But if you take out the NZ Superfund balance from the calcualtion it’s 34%, which is a much sicker Debt to GDP ratio for such a small country.”
    
    Why would you do that? I don’t think that is the issue. It is the debt held by entities like KO that is not counted as “Crown Debt”
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:08am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Hmm, assuming there was a corresponding liability to pay out the Super Fund, then the assets held v the liability to pay would net out, leaving the position the same as it is now. It’s only an issue if there is an imbalance – in ecco’s example, assumption would be that asset is higher than the liability, then the debt to GDP ratio would be skewed (if assets are used to offset debt in their calc).
      
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      September 12, 2023 11:20am
    - Yabster
      
      Because it a b/s measure- as Damien Grant points out if you are going to include the asset (fund) include the liability for super also.
      
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      September 12, 2023 2:20pm
artemisia

Emergency housing in motels etc getting some airtime. Rotorua (again) and now police visits in Hamilton.

Is any one looking, like really looking, at why so many are in emergency housing? For example why are 1,700 of these households single people with no children? (MSD June data) Where did they live before motels became a thing? If they lived with family, in boarding houses or in private rentals – what has changed?

Could it be that very cheap ‘rent’ in a motel, often in downtown city locations, is a seriously good option? Or maybe there are fewer boarding houses now, since the rules and regs made some uneconomic or too many hassles?

Is anyone delving into this info for root causes?
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September 12, 2023 8:27am
- kowtow
  
  Normally before a GE we can expect te media pahti to be pearl clutching and extremely concerned about the plight of the homeless .
  
  But as their party is currently in power we can’t expect too many late night visits to abodes of the abandoned ……..
  
  The conclusion is these manicured muppets of the media care not a shit for the homeless, but like all good marxist activists , simply use them as cannon fodder in their class war against the rich prick oppressors .
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:47am
  - artemisia
    
    Well my assessment of the ‘housing crisis’, based on massive increases in emergency housing and the social housing waiting list, is that a fair bit of it is due to landlords declining offers to even slightly risky tenants. If there are good tenants applying, usually the case. Risk tolerance has obviously declined since 2017, due to significant changes made by this government.
    
    An anecdote. On a tenant help page, a tenant of several years is not happy with conditions at the rental. But said for all of those years has been applying for other rentals, no success. I draw no conclusion ….
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:16am
Captain Mainwaring

Hosking did a masterful dissection of Chippie this morning. Will there be anything left of him by October 14?
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September 12, 2023 8:33am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I thought live vivisection was illegal??
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:37am
  - Colville
    
    In this case the brain and spine was removed years ago.
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:27am
- septic skeptic
  
  Not sure about that being masterful. Tell us what’s in the PREFU??? The preferred PM poll and have you read the herald yet were OK.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:19am
rjay

Someone mentioned yesterday that th Standard and daily Blog were apoplectic about yesterdays poll. I haven’t ever been there before but I have to say its tempting to go there for a daily dose of comedy.
For example one bloke got banned for a month in 2017 for writing:

“3 May 2017 at 10:51 am
When Parker is the only person with Cabinet experience that is asking NZ to put their trust in hope rather than in experience. The talk of renewal is reminiscent of talk about were to place the deckchairs on the Titanic. I love the optimism here. It could power the National Grid.”
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September 12, 2023 8:33am
Biscuit

Never saw the sun shining so bright
Never saw things going so right
Noticing the days hurrying by
When you’re in love, my how they fly

Blue skies smiling at me
Nothing but blue skies do I see
Bluebirds singing a song
Nothing but bluebirds, all day long

Never saw the sun shining so bright
Never saw things going so right
Noticing the days hurrying by
When you’re in love, my how they fly

Blue days, all of them gone
Nothin’ but blue skies from now on
Blue skies smiling at me
Nothing but blue skies do I see

Bluebirds singing a song
Nothing but bluebirds, all day long
Never saw the sun shining so bright
Never saw things going so right

Noticing the days hurrying by
When you’re in love, my how they fly
Blue days, all of them gone, gone, gone
Nothin’ but blue skies from now on
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September 12, 2023 8:37am
Maggie Pie

WELCOME ABOARD

OMG! They’re saying that from today all types of Pets are now allowed on Auckland Public Transport. My partner thought there were enough animals riding it already 😀

He can hardly wait for the fight-vids to emerge …..the paw-sibilities are endless!!
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September 12, 2023 8:38am
- Biscuit
  
  ‘His dog gave my dog a funny look, Constable! Things escalated from there…”
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:52am
- Kiwiguy
  
  How did wordpress let you post your comment twice? That really takes the biscuit.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:57am
- Raphael
  
  so I can take my emotional support llama on the train?
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:13am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Yes Mags, but who in their right mind uses public transport? Bleeeech!!
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:37am
- lifesgood
  
  I’m a regular bus user and I can’t stand dogs. Believe it or not not everyone loves them. I am dreading having to sit near one. If it happens just once I will not be using the bus again.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:07am
  - wsk12345
    
    Yeah I feel the same way about kids.
    Best way to avoid them is to drive, faster too.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:23am
  - rouppe
    
    I’d write to Auckland Transport ahead of time, expressing your concern about safety from aggressive dogs, such as pit bull types.
    
    If you experience or see any trouble with that type of dog on a bus, then you can bring a Health and Safety charge, citing your warning them
    
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    September 12, 2023 3:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now the elephant in the room can go home.//
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:19am
Matt Long

Father who protested against the school cover up of the rape of his daughter, allegedly by a trans student in the girls bathroom, pardoned by governor.
No word on prosecution of school officials.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/gov-glenn-youngkin-pardons-loudon-county-dad-protested-school-board-daughter-sexually-assaulted
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September 12, 2023 8:38am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  That one is a doozy Matt. The Prosecutor of course, a dyed in the wool Democrat, is going ballistic. Turns out she is charging the guy after Police arrested him despite having committed no apparent crime, saying his body language suggested that the exchange he was having with an activist might escalate. I kid you not. He’s charged for using a bad word, that might have caused HER to hit him.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:43am
nathie

Here’s one for the “outraged” MSM.

If a particular race of humans set up a moon base in the future … does that mean that race of humans are “indigenous” to the moon? After how many years? Hundreds, thousands, millions?

In terms of the current debate (Winnie’s remarks) to me there is no real one answer, it could be both depending on how one defines it. So why not have a debate on the pros and cons of both sides rather that shut down debate, take a side and denounce opposing views?
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September 12, 2023 8:43am
- nathie
  
  Or put another way, if China or India or the USA first sets up a moonbase, would one of those nationalities be “indigenous”?
  
  Or maybe, just maybe, it is time to relegate being “indigenous” to the likes of cultural events and historical recognition …. and remove it from the likes of co-governance?
  
  After all we all now live in a global society, mostly democratic and pretty much as one people?? I mean, even the UN think so (so there leftie MSM/activists)!!
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:17am
- Burtland
  
  the US planted their flag first so they should be charging India rent currently?
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:47am
  - alwyn.a
    
    The Outer Space Treaty precludes any country claiming territorial rights to any celestial body.
    It originally took effect in 1967 and has been signed by all the significant space going countries.
    Thus it doesn’t matter who was there first. They cannot claim to own the moon.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Space_Treaty#:~:text=Key%20provisions%20of%20the%20Outer,over%20outer%20space%20or%20any
    
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    September 12, 2023 2:52pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  nathie – I cannot fathom any positive coming out of giving ANYONE the status of ‘indigenous’? What does it mean and what’s the point? It is divisive and has the potential to be destructive, as is happening in NZ.
  We cannot change the past, we can only learn from it. We can only fix the now. If people need assistance give it to them. But nothing should be based on race or religion.
  
  Any intelligent species looking at earth must find it an astonishingly strange place with very weird inhabitants. No wonder they haven’t visited yet.
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:09am
- Ehlana
  
  Only if the first settlers on the moon lived there long enough to establish a unique culture, then got colonised by another culture and became a minority of the people living on the moon.
  
  What I want to know is how much the Treaty claim will cost.
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:18pm
- rouppe
  
  The first non-Maori settlers arrived in the mid-1800’s. If they had babies early, that bloodline would have been here 175 years by now. When does that become “indigenous”
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:55pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Actually, the first non-Maori settlers came here in the mid to late 1700’s – whalers & sealers.
    
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    September 12, 2023 5:01pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    They did have kids … who these days count among the Maoris …
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:16pm
    - Jack5
      
      Many southern members of Ngai Tahu have genes of whalers and sealers.
      
      These folk include a prominent tribe member who descends from one of the Weller brothers, for whom a recently famous Otago whaling sea shanty is named.
      
      The shanty, the Wellerman, has been astonishingly successful among hundreds of millions of young viewers on YouTube (“hits” on the videos top 400 million), and among musicians as widespread as the Vienna Boys’ Choir, American military bands, and women of various countries who’ve put up videos of themselves dancing to the tune.
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:58pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

2. https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/luxon-continues-to-be-a-huge-problem/
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September 12, 2023 8:45am
kiwikidsnz

Good news story today
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2023/09/new-zealand-internet-sensation-subash-chandar-helps-33-000-students-with-ncea-maths.html
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September 12, 2023 8:47am
- Yabster
  
  yes- saw that on prime last night- doing a great job- the obviously issue is why are other ncea maths teacher not?
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:29am
kowtow

Ferald , at least 3 separate anti Luxon articles ( in a paper with a dearth of real news) .
The cartoon , as usual .
Wilson , as usual .
And Coughlan on the latest poll ,giving a backhanded sly serve ,saying Chris , the “non religious” one needs a miracle .
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September 12, 2023 8:53am
- RoboRob
  
  Stuffs cartoon is an attack on Act. Its like nothing major happened to Labour recently.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:07am
Maggy Wassilieff

The media seem very coy about telling the public exactly what happened in Napier High Court yesterday morning

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/spectators-scale-court-barrier-to-assault-defendant-in-dock-of-high-court-at-napier/EVDFYIGMVBDPRBB2DYYYCJAIWU/

Reading between the lines…..

The “spectators” who climbed over the barrier are Gang members

The defendant is a member of a rival gang.

The Corrections Officer who “appeared to be wounded” was bashed and was wounded.

The Gangs (Black Power and Mongrel Mob) are out of control in Napier- Hawkes Bay.
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September 12, 2023 8:57am
- nathie
  
  Would have thought a High Court assault would have made the tv/radio news … but it didn’t seem to do so? Perhaps it didn’t fit their “narrative”?
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:10am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    North Korea is studying NZ’s censorship and narrative control very closely, looking for clues.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:12am
  - hullkiwi
    
    HDPA did a piece on it last night. You could discern it was gang related.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:51am
- kowtow
  
  I can’t find it in the print version .
  
  Yes very coy .
  
  Why .
  
  Because this is more proof of how our society is being radically changed . Or how standards have collapsed , at the hands of the few , but to the silence of many .
  
  And generally no one seems to really care .
  
  But the cogniscenti say ” the world is boiling” . Squirrel.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:11am
- rouppe
  
  Don’t forget:
  
  “The judge left quickly”.
  
  Should have been required to sit there through it to get a sense of what KO neighbours have to put up with
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:52pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Taxpayer’s Union has a Debt Clock.
See under Campaigns.

https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/
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September 12, 2023 8:57am
- Yabster
  
  yes I proudly donated- a local engineer firm did the trailer at cost – $158 billion and counting…- they are parking it outside parliament and doing a sausage sizzle fund-raiser today at 1 pm- same time as Prefu.
  
  email this morning:
  
  We already know from the Budget back in May that government debt is closing in on $158 billion – that’s more than $120,000 for a family of four – and we hear that tomorrow’s books are going to be a blood bath.
  
  Some sarcasm also…
  
  We only need to sell $3 million, 89 thousand dollars worth of sausages to keep the clock still for the hour!
  
  To pay back the whole debt, we only need to sell 78 and a half billion sausages at $2 each. Laid end-to-end that’s enough sausages to get you to the moon and back 14 times!
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That trailer is made by Reid Trailers.
    I may have made the chassis ready for galvanising – who knows?
    
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    September 13, 2023 8:08am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Replacing Joe Biden.
Michelle Obama.
This will allow Barrack Obama to continue his interference.
Trump 2024.

https://redbloodedconservative.com/2023/09/11/author-claims-to-know-who-will-replace-biden-in-2024/
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September 12, 2023 9:02am
Bridgenag

The Select Committee on the CCP
The work of this House Committee is critical in exposing the corruption of BlackRock and Morgan Stanley.

“The U.S. House committee has estimated that the BlackRock funds have invested more than $429 million into the blacklisted names.
It is important to note that this is not only about investment dollars, but also about the technical consultants and agreements that are flowing from the United States into China because of these deals. That these investment deals are causing the USA to give up more of its intellectual property and firepower to the CCP and Chinese companies that threaten national security.

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/the-select-committee-on-the-ccp?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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September 12, 2023 9:06am
- hullkiwi
  
  Not just the US. This from last night’s BBC UK news.
  
  BBC News – UK will not accept Chinese interference – Sunak
  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66780515
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:55am
Grunter

Meanwhile, in the sad and sick USA….

Bud Light, America’s former #1 selling beer, has fallen after the company went woke. So why then would billionaire Bill Gates purchase 1.7 million shares worth around $95 million in parent company Anheuser-Busch? Through the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Trust, the fake philanthropist is purchasing numerous shares of alcoholic beverages. He also bought a 3.76% stake in Heineken Holding NV or 10.8 million shares worth $939.87 million at the time.

Hmmmm, what did we all do in the last lockdown…..? Oh, that’s right, sales of alcohol went through the roof!

It’s only a conspiracy theory…..until it’s not….
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September 12, 2023 9:07am
- Inandout
  
  Grunter, he is merely buying low priced stock like any wise investor does. To back up your theory he would then invest heavily in face masks and drug companies.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:23am
  - Grunter
    
    Think that part has already happened……. before the last virus “escaped”…..
    
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    September 12, 2023 9:49am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Did you read that on The Duran?
      Hey, did you know that the owner of Zero Hedges’ father was an ex KGB Agent in Bulgaria.
      He runs a Newsletter with lots of conspiracy stuff on it.
      You should check it out Tovarishch 😉
      
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      September 12, 2023 1:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Had to have my spirits delivered. By online with card, booze shop checks my card on top of letterbox, leaves my Jacks and Crown Royal and receipt.
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:06am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    We couldn’t go into the local booze shop, not jabbed and would have refused to use a pass even if we had been.
    Local lady did home deliveries for $5. I was almost sad when they stopped it. lol
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:28am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That is when I bought some boxes of Jack, and got a dam good discount.
      
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      September 12, 2023 4:30pm
Gravelroad

Dreary, boring rugby game playing out between England and Argentina this am.
Whistle, whistle, whistle, penalty after penalty (mostly all one way) , kick, kick, kick.
English fans delirious every time their team kicks a penalty goal- can’t score a try though.
Is this World Cup going to be decided by over-zealous refereeing?
So far not a great spectacle.
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September 12, 2023 9:12am
- Centrist
  
  This morning?? Sky must be replaying games.
  
  It was played on Sunday morning NZT.
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:32am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

White House Desperately Claims Executive Privilege.

https://thepoliticalmovement.com/2023/09/11/white-house-desperately-claims-executive-privilege-to-block-release-of-more-incriminating-documents/
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September 12, 2023 9:16am
bjools

I just went over to “the standard” for y’all.
I know it was painful, but I survived.
I noticed that on all threads, in the past 2 days, there appears to be less than 100 comments.
Their latest on the “cervical cancer announcement”, after about 1 hour…only O N E comment.
Q; As a fast and dirty assessment. To use their standard bearer as an indication, will Labour’s die hard’s, even vote?
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September 12, 2023 9:33am
- Rich Prick
  
  I hope you wiped your feet on the way out. Labour is poked and their fans know it, I think they are down to hard-core unionists and school teachers now.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:41am
- Gravelroad
  
  They will if there is more bribe money in it for them.
  Organise a lot of buses to pick up “vulnerable people” from far and wide to take them to polling booths.
  And arrange afternoon tea parties where “vulnerable people” are assisted with their filling in of early voting papers.
  Fried chicken vouchers and gift cards for the “vulnerable young people.”
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And the Hospitals.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:07am
Ghost

Again chippy lets us know he has just started his campaign. Bullshit. You started it the moment Jacinda stood down, you continued it with your budget bribes, and you’re floundering in a deep puddle of shit that country is in because of your party

Labour leader Chris Hipkins has taken responsibility for the latest poor poll result but has vowed to fight on, saying his party has only just started campaigning.

With the election just 32 days away, the latest Newshub-Reid Research poll was grim reading for Labour.

Article

Fast forward 6 months, Chippy is rocking back in forth in his seat mumbling “I’m about to start the campaign”. Opposition leader Mahuta tells him “I think you need to retire, my husband needs your seat now”.
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September 12, 2023 9:51am
- cmm
  
  The incumbent party starts campaigning the moment it takes power. They’ve been campaigning for almost 6 years.
  
  There is surely no need for Labour to articulate their policies more clearly. We can see them in play all around us.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:10am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Tragic to hear the woke host on ZB this morning crying in his coffee about the Labour poll slide. He couldn’t work out how such a ‘popular’ PM heads a party which is dying in the ditch.
  He obviously needs to get out more.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:26am
  - surfing
    
    Which host are you talking about?
    
    Hosking’s interview with Hipkin’s really irritated me. To the point I was almost on Hipkin’s side because Hosking was so annoying, unreasonable, and off target. And almost cruel too…laughing at the way someone speaks is not on at that level of media.
    
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    September 12, 2023 10:37am
    - David Garrett
      
      surfing: We must have heard different interviews…I heard an interviewer trying to get straight answers to straightforward questions…Perhaps he did go on about the PREFU a little more than was reasonable.
      
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      September 12, 2023 10:52am
      - surfing
        
        Going after the PREFU was a waste of time.
        
        Hosking gassed on for far too long about a ‘front’ page news story which Hipkin’s had not read. Hosking couldn’t have seriously believed Hipkins would answer a question on a news story he hadn’t read. That was more wasted time.
        
        Hosking scored a couple of good points, but , he could have done so much better.
        
        And laughing at the way someone speaks is lowbrow humour. It is something you’d expect from lefties.
        
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        September 12, 2023 12:00pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Chippie could always try lying, he is good at it.
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:09am
Tom Hunter

Oh look, more New Zealand cultural cringe.

We’ve been mentioned in dispatches by the idiot Queen of New York, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, as she links with approval to an argument that inflation is not real, just corporate propaganda – pushed by our very own Aotearoa Liberation League.

Sigh. I’m not feeling the pride here folks.
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September 12, 2023 10:23am
- Blog-aholic
  
  You have to laugh at the Aotearoa Liberation League, they have some pretty far out beliefs about, well almost everything. I looked into the ALL website about 6 odd months ago and I was amazed at the lack of lucidity in their reality. I looked at it recently and they have changed it so that it looks more lucid but it is the same ideology driving it.
  On top of that she is speaking about the dirty capitalist etc all the while wearing some designer clothing. Go figure.
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:53am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    … while wearing some designer clothing. Go figure.
    
    I noticed that too. I wonder how much she paid for that careful knee rip in the jeans – and how many cents the Indonesian child got paid for ripping it?
    
    In a principled world you might even see them as allies in taking down the 1000 or so tribal elites who are sucking up the government’s money via TOW settlements, top-ups and the success of the resulting iwi-owned businesses – “Working class Maori see none of it”, etc, etc.
    
    Sadly that’s not going to happen because they’re ALL the same sort of AOC-style Far Left grifters that the likes of Patrice Cullours and other BLM leaders (“trained Marxists”) turned out to be in the USA. They’ll spout all the commie bullshit there is about capitalism and oppression – while Willie Jackson and company pay them off.
    
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    September 12, 2023 11:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I liked the pisstake by mini AOC.
  Her and her family got hassled and even death treats. That is how unhinged the left are. A lot have been taken down, but it looks like some have been put up again.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmHFUzvY9XE
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:26am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Social media Tom. That’s how it works. A low IQ woman who has a terribly limited understanding of what she is talking about, gets to have her day in the sun. Just remember though, a good number of the people that actually waste their limited time looking at her, actually point and laugh at her. As it should be.
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:43pm
goNZ1

with Labours imminent electoral thrashing are we finally witnessing the zenith of the Maori Wonderfulness movement and a return to sanity?
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September 12, 2023 10:55am
- kowtow
  
  Plenty of time yet before the 2040 anniversary .
  They’ll be back for another go.
  
  Recall 30 years ago it was all “full and final” , that has morphed thanks to National into co management , which then grew into co governance .
  
  The Blob is determined to “indigenise” the place , to everyone’s ultimate detriment.
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:17am
  - Paulus
    
    Maori aspiration is like rust – it never stops whatever anybody may think.
    I shall be long gone, but it will happen, and my children and grandchildren do not appear to know or care, what we worked for, the new New Zealand that we came to over half a Century ago.
    We are disappointed at where we have come to.
    Can only vote shortly to help start the reformation.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:58pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      NZ can not do anything until the Waitangi Tribunal (19750) rogue version of the Treaty is stopped. The gravy train will stop.
      Get that word? ROGUE. Fucked around with by SIR HUGH KAWHARU!
      Forestry and Fisheries were added by Kawharu.
      The Net Taxpayer of NZ has been screwed since 1975.
      Full and FINAL my left tit!
      
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      September 12, 2023 4:40pm
- Taieri
  
  are we finally witnessing the zenith of the Maori Wonderfulness movement and a return to sanity?
  ————
  
  No.
  
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  September 12, 2023 11:30am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    NO! They are just starting.
    New Zealand needs to stop this – or pay forever and beyond.
    
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    September 12, 2023 4:42pm
Benedict Yu

I must say, the last 2 weeks I really have this sense of “chickens coming home to roost”. Labour crashing in the polls. The PREFU out today. The record current account deficit. The warning from the IMF.

Looking back at 6 long years of:

“be kind”

“wellbeing”

“the COVID elimination strategy”

the Adrian Orr driven COVID housing market boom

on and on… the gaslighting “I have not had any formal complaints about bullying”

…and now those chickens are home to roost. The bitter resentment every time folks with children to feed walk into the supermarket or fill up the car with petrol.

A Government utterly out of excuses and out of time.
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September 12, 2023 11:56am
- surfing
  
  This government cannot even repair pot holes. A simple job that requires some training , some equipment and materials, and some workforce planning. Yet, this labour govt manages to spend more money on repairing fewer pot holes.
  
  I just can’t overstate the utter incompetence of this bunch of labour muppets. Hipkin’s will lie and say they are doing a better job than ever and any issues stem from covid and other goverments are having the same issue!
  
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  September 12, 2023 12:09pm
  - Taieri
    
    This government cannot even repair pot holes.
    ————
    
    But they are very good at renaming things. Exceptionally good in fact…
    
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    September 12, 2023 4:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “formal complaints about bullying”
  ‘Do not write anything down. No texts or emails. No letters mailed.’
  Or something.
  That is how devious that person was.
  Remember how Sharma got shafted?
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:46pm
ClanMcleod

An interesting read in OffGuardian today from Todd Hayden. – Illusory Guilt.

You are not destroying the planet. You are not a cancer to the earth that must be wiped out. You are not killing your neighbour, or your neighbour’s children, by not wearing a mask. You are not responsible for the death of untold millions because you didn’t get the vaccine.

https://off-guardian.org/2023/09/09/illusory-guilt/

So, it is easy to think that people who hang themselves with guilt from the tree they feel they have forsaken, are virtuous people. These are the people who really care, they are the ones who will do anything to save our planet.

Nope. I don’t think so.

They feel guilty.

And they were coerced into feeling guilty by the government, by the WEF, UN, and WHO, by the likes of Greta Thunberg and a scad of others operating within the agenda. Guilt, guilt, guilt. Again, I am not saying we should ignore these problems, and some of them are indeed very real, but we must tackle them for the right reasons, not because we have been guilted into it.

We have been made to feel guilty for too many years. Let’s not fall for this control mechanism any longer.
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September 12, 2023 12:00pm
- Pineapple Lumps
  
  Clan – I heard another Canadian psychologist, Jordan Peterson say that Conservative personalities are more likely to feel guilt and be introspective when accused of wrongdoing. Narcissistic personalities are expert at utilising guilt to manipulate Conservatives. That’s why we have these activists shouting racist, non-inclusive, plant killer etc and a conservative will go “what do I need to change to be a better person.”
  
  In reality, we need to be saying, what is this psycho trying to do to manipulate me right now? Good bye psycho.
  
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  September 12, 2023 7:50pm
John Loveridge

Could people here provide me with some advice, please?

I’m working through my youngest child’s enrolment at her in-zone high school for next year. During her course selection process we’ve come across this:

“Mathematics, English, Social Studies, PE, Science, Digital Technology and Ara Māori are compulsory in Year 9.”

Nowhere on the school website can I find any description of “Ara Māori”. The fact it isn’t called simply te reo Maori suggests it must be something more.

As far as I’m aware, there is no compulsory Maori in the national curriculum yet, so could this be something the school has implemented themselves? What grounds could they use for making it compulsory? What angle of debate could I take against it?

I have a new entrant meeting with the school next week and I plan to register my protest against compulsory Maori anything, but being no expert in these matters I’d appreciate anybody’s thoughts that might help inform me.
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September 12, 2023 12:23pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Does it say “Te Ara Reo Māori”? “Te ara” means “pathway” so I think it means “the pathway to learning Maori” – i.e Maori language lessons.
  
  I suspect the school has decided to make it compulsory – schools have a fair bit of latitude. I am not sure much you can do except find another school.
  
  My advice – which you are free to ignore 🙂 – I would worry less about some Maori language lessons than the incorporation of Mātauranga Māori (“Maori knowledge”) in science and other parts of the curriculum. Maori language lessons have some benefit. In contrast being told in science classes about the earth mother, and conflating Maori knowledge with science is very alarming. But again, there is nothing you can do to stop it.
  
  You are simply encountering New Zealand public schools as the are today. Short of a (good) private school or home schooling there is not much you can do.
  
  Sorry I can’t offer much helpful advice 🙁
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:06pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    “But again, there is nothing you can do to stop it.”
    
    Well, he could attend board meetings and talk to board members about the curriculum. He could get elected to the board or form a group of parents who feel the same way and apply pressure to have the school’s curriculum changed. If “Ara Maori” is not part of the required curriculum the school can dump it because at some recent time the board voted to include it.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:24pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    It says exactly what I wrote, Benedict. Just “Ara Māori”. No further detail available.
    
    Unfortunately all schools are infected with the Maori disease these days, even the private ones. I looked at all options for my daughter but we can’t afford a private education, and we failed in our attempts to enrol her in more desirable public schools. I even tried for a couple of Catholic schools, on the principle that I would prefer her to get a dose of Catholicism to one of matauranga Maori. After some debate we decided the law of diminishing returns (and other consequences) ruled out moving house to put her in a better school’s zone, therefore we must work with what we’ve got, but I don’t consider that grounds to simply acquiesce. My objections will be raised.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:38pm
    - Taieri
      
      I even tried for a couple of Catholic schools, on the principle that I would prefer her to get a dose of Catholicism to one of matauranga Maori
      —————
      
      Nothing wrong with Catholic schools. My son went to one and came out a well turned atheist. Works as a scientist now, at an European university. But that was before matauranga raised its ugly head.
      
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      September 12, 2023 4:12pm
- Colville
  
  40 years ago I had compulsory Maori in third form. I doubt it’s gone away.
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:19pm
  - Ghost
    
    I remember back in the end of the 80’s at high school the Principal wanted to make Maori compulsory for all third and forth formers. In the end he backed down and made compulsory to learn a second language. German, French and Mandarin classes were full, Maori only had a handful.
    
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    September 12, 2023 2:06pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  John, look up the School Board Chair (his|her details should be on the School website). Call him and have a chat. Secondly, check out who else is on the Board. The Board has final say on stuff that is not compulsory part of Government mandated curriculum.
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:32pm
- kowtow
  
  I take it youhave older children , presumably at the same school , if so how are they getting on , subject choices etc
  
  I’d be careful what you say in front of your new entrant child so’s not to prejudice her overly .
  You don’t want her taking a stand and getting in the shit one way or the other. Schools can be very very vindictive .
  
  If the maori stuff is only for year 9 and is dropped in yr 10 ,then if all other matters at the school are good , if the school is a good fit for your child and gets good results then my advice is ; head down , get on with it , it’ll only be for one year , which in academic terms is not long at all.
  
  on a lighter note she might be able to sue the govt in 40 years time for “forcing” the lingo and “decolonising” her against her will and could end up with a huge amount in compo , paid out in whatever currency the ruling Chinese communist party of the day favours……….
  
  Good luck.
  
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  September 12, 2023 1:47pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    The older ones have moved on to the real world, kowtow. There’s a bit of a gap to my “baby”. None of this had come about when they were still making their way through the system. Also they went to a different school, one with a better reputation. The zoning boundaries were changed in between – when you look at the crazy, convoluted lines on the zone map now you get the feeling they deliberately tried to exclude riff-raff like the Loveridges. We’re much closer to the previous school than we are to the current one.
    
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    September 12, 2023 1:58pm
    - rouppe
      
      Can you get your daughter into the other school by way of having siblings there? If that school suits you better?
      
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      September 12, 2023 2:11pm
      - John Loveridge
        
        Tried that. She was Priority 3 and missed out.
        
        Priority 1 = in zone.
        Priority 2 = out of zone but have siblings at the school.
        Priority 3= out of zone but HAD siblings at the school.
        
        Tried several other schools too, but the same result. Christchurch schools seem to be trying hard to stop out-of-zoners right now.
        
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        September 12, 2023 2:54pm
- rouppe
  
  To be fair, I learned some (albeit very simple) Maori when I was in school in the 70’s.
  
  Counting to ten, common greetings (ie difference between Te Nga Koe/Korua/Koutu) stuff like that. It was part of “social studies” if I remember correctly.
  
  The key questions are how pervasive is the subject, (ie Benedict’s questions about the science curriculum)
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:16pm
- Centrist
  
  She’ll need some te reo in most white collar jobs in NZ and be able to say her mihi. She’ll also need it for many/most tertiary courses. To be honest I’d worry less about her learning the language than some of the stuff she’ll encounter in the new history, health, and science curricula.
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:08pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Nothing really changes…
  
  Back in the 1960s. I was interested in learning Japanese… but my High School only offered Latin & French …..
  
  I s’pose there’s various ways to argue that those 2years of declining Latin Nouns and 3 years of conjugating French verbs were not wasted….. but as I have never had any desire to visit frogland or its colonies or indulge in reading Horace or Virgil, I do consider my time could have been better spent.
  
  Fast-forward to another generation…and my eldest child opted for Japanese in Yr 9, but it was over-prescribed and she was shoved into French….. which she loathed, but stuck with for 3 years…as there was the “promise” of a trip to New Caledonia for the class……(never happened). She did Te Reo for 1 year and didn’t mind it.
  
  2nd daughter was given a Taster term of French, then Japanese, then Te Reo at Year 9. She decided she didn’t care for any of them.
  
  I’d be fairly relaxed about your daughter’s Year 9 subjects….. as long as she’s staying on top of her English (literacy – comprehension, writing) and Maths… and is enjoying going to school each day, then she’ll find her own way through the system.
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Record your meeting. There is too much of this control shit going on.
  Maybe change schools?
  I fought hard to get my Granddaughter into Westlake Girls, because other high schools were not up to standard. Now I have a smart switched on Granddaughter.
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:52pm
- cmm
  
  I expect it means a trivial introduction to Maori.
  
  Learning to count to 10 and learning a few simple sentences is hardly learning a language, but I suspect that if they’ve done that and taught a kid to swing a poi and introduced some cultural stuff (like stories of Maui etc) then that would tick the box of Ara Maori.
  
  Remember these schools are under high pressure to conform with very limited resources. Chances are they don’t have a fluent Maori speaker on staff and have no way to really teach the language properly.
  
  So they do what they can and will. most likely, be doing the absolute minimum to tick the box.
  
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  September 12, 2023 5:10pm
kowtow

Another one of those mysterious , intense garage fires .

‘A fire within a Mosgiel garage was so intense it spat blue flames into the street, neighbours say.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/intense-blue-flame-may-be-%E2%80%98indication%E2%80%99-fire%E2%80%99s-cause
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September 12, 2023 1:02pm
- I remember when
  
  What sort of electrical appliance would be likely to be operating at 1.45 am on a Saturday morning?
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:13pm
  - Colville
    
    Deep fryer if I have just got back from the pub!!
    
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    September 12, 2023 4:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oxygen and LPG for heating something – boiling something.
  Like boiling/simmering wine and saffron to make a sauce.
  Boiling off water.
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:58pm
- cmm
  
  EV or meth cook up. Equally plausible.
  
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  September 12, 2023 6:03pm
All_on_Red

I was bemused to see that Moderna was a Sponsor of the US Open- won by Novak Djokovic.
Deliciously, his Forehand which won him the Match, was named ‘Moderna Shot of the Day’.
Having the most famous non vaxxed man in the world being lauded by the Vax maker is really funny.
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September 12, 2023 1:27pm
Maggie Pie

Can you even imagine just how many hundreds-of-millions of taxpayer dollars have will have literally disappeared into the ether over that last six years with these clowns in charge…..nobody having a f–ing cloo where it might have gone, nor ever being held accountable.

Now the tank is empty. Frightening!
21 3
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September 12, 2023 1:28pm
- mogg
  
  It’s a black comedy, with every Labour Government the economy ends up in the shite.
  ‘Never in the field of human endeavour has one fat bastard borrowed so much’……
  The cuts are coming, look at financial markets: equities down for more than a month now while bond rates are increasing again.Labour’s profligacy is now in the past.
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:42pm
- Prince
  
  We don’t know where it went, but we sure know where it came from.
  No change in tax brackets despite inflation of around 25%, and a bunch of extra levies and taxes, plus $100B of additional Govt debt.
  Regardless of the state of our books, it’s time the poor old wage and salary earner got a bit of relief in the tax brackets. Thanks you National – not enough, but at least it’s a start.
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:49pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner went into some long-winded explanation as to why the country now finds itself over a $100 Billion MORE in the sh*t than it was 3 years ago 🙁
  
  He may be right, but personally I think it’s simpler than that.
  If you ask me, I reckon it all started when the Reserve Bank changed its name to
  ‘Te Putea Matua’.
  
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  September 12, 2023 3:13pm
- cmm
  
  The tank is not empty.
  The tank is negative.
  If the two generations of New Zealanders diligently pay back the debt, it will be cleared in 30 years.
  Then it will be empty.
  
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  September 12, 2023 6:01pm
I remember when

$1 million plus house sales surge up to 70 per cent:
Stuff: 27/1/22.
Article noted that ” Last year 30,873 residential properties sold for a least $1 million.
The made up 35.2 per cent of the total sales figure.
In Auckland, the median price in December was $1.29m.”
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September 12, 2023 2:09pm
- cmm
  
  “$1 million plus house sales surge up to 70 per cent”
  
  Well if the median sale price is over $1M then, by definition, more than half the sales will be over $1M. Having crossed that mark we can expect a higher % to exceed $1M.
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:58pm
Surely Knott

Julie Ann Genter. from Linkedin . How did she get her first job in planning? Look at the dates.

2000-2003 University of California, Berkley (BA Philosophy)
2004-2005 Scholarship. Paris. Science P. O.
CIEP (certificate introduction politics) , Political Theory, International affairs.
2006- 2008 University of Auckland. Masters of Planning Prac

Job: Planner
Sinclair Knight Merz
Sep 2006 – Nov 2007 1 year 3 months
City Planning
Resource Consent Advice
Case Law Research
Convener of the Environment Committee — Internal Environmental Management Systems
Project Manager of the Travel Plan

How did she get a job as a transport planner, giving legal and resource consent advice in NZ. in 2006. When she had only just started her planning degree in Auckland?

As an interesting aside. Sinclair Merz got in a bit of trouble. From the Guardian “The Australian-based consulting firm was found by the World Bank to have repeatedly bribed public officials in Vietnam, using ghost contracts, fake study tours and subsidiary companies to mask the payments.

Bridge in Da Nang Vietnam
Australia handed out millions in aid contracts to company accused of bribery
Read more
SKM is now also facing criminal prosecution for allegedly bribing officials in Vietnam between 2006 and 2011, and the Philippines between 2000 and mid-2005.

The company, a donor to the Liberal and Labor parties, was simultaneously receiving vast amounts of public money from the Australian government to administer projects under its foreign aid program, although there is no evidence that it directly used taxpayer money to bribe officials.”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/jul/14/sinclair-knight-merz-foreign-bribery-case-sparks-call-for-greater-police-resources
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September 12, 2023 2:25pm
- Ghost
  
  Perhaps like other people she got a job while doing her study.
  
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  September 12, 2023 2:36pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Sure. Probably. But it is unusual. Usually you have to complete at least one year in the subject for something technical like that and you usually start at the bottom. Especially since her other degrees were politics and philosophy. Eg not engineering or NZ law or environmental law. Just odd.
    
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    September 12, 2023 4:16pm
    - cmm
      
      I don’t think being a planner is very technical at the entry level. Nothing like, say, software development or engineering.
      
      If she helped a qualified planner filling in data in planning reports (or whatever planners do), then that is planning too.
      
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      September 12, 2023 5:02pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Her Masters (with Hons-1st Class) was concerned with the economics of Transport.
      
      Hon JULIE ANNE GENTER: Hmm, well, actually, Mr Hudson, my Master’s degree with honours was on the economic evaluation of transport projects,
      
      https://www.parliament.nz/mi/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/document/HansS_20180612_063300000/genter-julie-anne
      
      Presumably she could cope with numbers….
      
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      September 12, 2023 6:07pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Work is a four-letter word.
    
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    September 12, 2023 5:56pm
- cmm
  
  You don’t need a degree to be a planner.
  
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  September 12, 2023 5:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Why can’t desperate Labour stop lying?
Here we have Northcote MP Shanan Halbert about houses built.
”
Kāinga Ora told Newshub 425 homes have been built in the Auckland suburb of Northcote since Labour came into power in 2017 and 317 old homes – 314 of them state houses – have been demolished or removed.”
That means 111 houses more than the original 314.

Depends how you read it.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/hipkins-stands-by-labour-mp-over-housing-claims/ar-AA1gzTTm
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September 12, 2023 2:36pm
kiwi_chileno

Today, 11/9 (Chile time) is the 50th anniversary of the 1973 military coup d’etat.

Sebastian Piñera, conservative and twice President (last term ended in 2022), was interviewed for the commemorations. He says that “sometimes the left-wing like to think that Chile started on 11 September 1973, and that is simply not true”. The situation before was pure chaos. “One thing is to ask yourself how is it we reached 11 September, so that never again there is a repeat of those circumstances, and when reaching 11 September, the main responsibility falls on the government of the Popular Front [President Allende’s socialist government], the coalition that with a very radical minority attempted to impose Marxism on Chile.” In 2013, on the 40th anniversary of the coup, Piñera, in his first Presidential term, also spoke about the passive accomplices of the Popular Front, including conservative politicians.

Piñera is not saying that the coup can be justified, or that it was inevitable or necessary, but that it was the end – the shocking, awful circuit-breaker – of perhaps an avoidable long sequence of events: “democracy was collapsing, but not of a sudden and unexpected death; Chilean democracy was very sick, most seriously sick.”

The full interview is here (turn on Spanish sub-titles) https://youtu.be/OCYOSCVxVHE?t=1453
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September 12, 2023 2:59pm
Local Miller

I love the comedy line in the PERFU: “Annual wage growth is forecast to average 4.8 per cent over the next four years compared to CPI inflation of just over 2 per cent”

There’s about zero chance that CPI will drop to 2% average over the next 4 years, that has totally been sucked out of thin air and is wishful thinking. And average wage growth at 4.8% you have to be kidding me.

Looks like the PERFU is a total farce.
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September 12, 2023 3:56pm
- bjools
  
  They should have started the reading with
  “Once upon a time”
  Like all fairy tails.
  Predicting surplus by 2027….HAHAHA
  The deficit since the budget forecast (just a few months ago) is 50% above forecast and predicted to be above the forecast next year too.
  Then by some miracle of Harry Potter inspired magic, with a leap into surplus over the following 2 years.
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:25pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Inflation will stay high as NZD falls due to our worst-in-world current account deficit making imports ever more expensive.
  
  And here is Michael Reddells acerbic take on the GIGO (Garbage in garbage out) PREFU, basically the forecast projections on inflation and growth etc assumptions have been cooked to charcoal like consistency to make things look good:
  https://croakingcassandra.com/2023/09/12/pretend-fiscal-policy-and-immaculate-disinflation/
  
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  September 12, 2023 4:28pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Withr egards to the Prefu I’m reminded of an old joke:
    A geologist, physicist and an economist are marooned on a desert island with nothing to eat.
    A can of soup washes ashore. They ponder how to open it. The geologist says, ‘Let’s smash it open with a rock.’ The physicist says, ‘Let’s heat it up and blow it open.’ The economist says, ‘No, no. You guys will lose most of the soup. Let’s just assume we have a can opener.’
    
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    September 12, 2023 5:55pm
cmm

I see Luxon has used the pathetic line that Little used to use often when he was leader of the opposition:

“Kiwis deserve better”

Well apart from being highly unoriginal, and a very nonspecific and useless statement, I must disagree.

No, Kiwis don’t deserve better. You bloody well got what you voted for! Next time put down the feelz and plug in the brain before voting.

Why does a Kiwi (or anyone) just deserve stuff? Do you really deserve better than someone living in an African shithole just because you had the good fortune to be born here? How is that “deserving”?
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September 12, 2023 4:56pm
- Colville
  
  Oh yeah… That message is going to get a lot of votes.
  
  Twat.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:34pm
Maggie Pie

On today of all days, it was interesting to hear that they spent more money investigating Bill Clinton’s blowjob ($60mill), than the ‘September 11 Commission’ spent on the entire 570-page 14 Chapter Report into the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks ($15mill)

Priorities I guess….although I find it hard to swallow.
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September 12, 2023 5:12pm
- Ghost
  
  Danger money? You had more chance dying investigating the Clinton’s.
  
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  September 12, 2023 5:24pm
- greybeard
  
  Not too many got that one, Maggie.
  
  7 1
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  September 12, 2023 6:02pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    So long as you did grey 😛
    
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    September 12, 2023 6:07pm
Ghost

Yesterday, speaking at the European Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, NATO’s Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg admitted that NATO is responsible for deliberately provoking the war in Ukraine:

“President Putin in the autumn of 2021 sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that. … So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders”.

Twitter
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September 12, 2023 5:30pm
- All_on_Red
  
  The NATO Rules state quite clearly that whilst a country has a dispute on its Borders, it is not eligible for entry into NATO.
  So Ukraine was NEVER going to qualify.
  You realise that ‘ no NATO enlargement’ means no Sweden No Finland
  Make of that what you will
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:05pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  I’d wager a bet Ghost that all of your down-tickers have never heard of the Cuban Missile crisis.
  
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  September 12, 2023 8:31pm
Maggie Pie

“Yes Heather, I have no doubt that Sir Michael would have been proud of me”

– Grant Robertson (Lab Fin Min) during HDPA interview on ZB.
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September 12, 2023 5:59pm
- Scooter
  
  He sounded a bit teary saying that, maybe knows it’s a great big fat lie.
  
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  September 12, 2023 7:01pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    YIP…i picked up on that too. Maybe he needs to hand in his ‘man-card’ 😀
    
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    September 12, 2023 7:14pm
greybeard

Hardly any mention of Prefu on Stuff.
6 1
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September 12, 2023 6:00pm
- Ghost
  
  Shit load of reporting on stuff about it all afternoon
  
  Article
  
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  September 12, 2023 6:03pm
Ghost

More evidence that under labour, crime pays

Defendants facing serious charges were among those given a $75 Prezzy Card for attending meetings in Hawke’s Bay courts to share their court experiences and ideas, and to “re-imagine the District and Family Court” in the region.

About 50 people attended the two-hour meetings, or wānanga, held at Napier District Court on the evening of September 5 and at Hastings District Court on September 6.

About 12 attended the Napier meeting and over 40 the Hastings meeting.

Ministry of Justice chief operating officer Carl Crafar said the wānanga, which were led by Ngāti Kahungunu Iwi Incorporated and supported by the Ministry, were held in order to gain a deeper understanding of the local community’s aspirations for Te Ao Mārama.

Article
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September 12, 2023 6:58pm
wilderbeast

Maybe I’m showing my age but the PREFU was as predictable as it was nauseating. The economic crisis of the 70s and early 80s isn’t that far in the rearview mirror for me, and if there’s one good thing that came of it it was the economic reforms of Douglas and then Richardson. Thence followed 25 years of bipartisan fiscal prudence. As much as Helen Clark and Michael Cullen repudiated Rogernomics they never blew the bank account. Even prior to 2017 Grant Robertson hailed “fiscal prudence” as he sought the baubles of office. But come covid the temptation was too great for the narcissists and power trippers in the Labour caucus. Not in my lifetime and probably ever has there been such poor quality spending from a NZ government. Money was thrown around like confetti, and quite a lot of it spent on things with no discernible link to the covid recovery. Loose borrowing and spending simply became de rigeur. My children and probably grandchildren will probably bear the greatest tax burden and yet this lot claim that no one cares for the youth of today like they do. Absolute tripe, the whole thing has been a giant ruse. It’s a stain on our history and I hope it will be recorded as such.
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September 12, 2023 8:30pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  I couldn’t agree more, wilderbeast.
  
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  September 12, 2023 9:43pm
Maggie Pie

I see on the news where some clown shot at a few gang associates earlier today who were trying to steal his cheddar.
Cuddles comes out and says….
“We have absolutely no tolerance for that sort of behaviour”

And then…. does SFA about it anyway.
Just saying.
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September 12, 2023 8:33pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Cheddar? Is that a new word for stash?
  
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  September 12, 2023 10:33pm

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Playing with numbers.
Kiwipolitico
A lot of fuss about a simple Bill – its purpose (to make English an official language) is spelled out in 22 words
Point of Order
A crime
No Right Turn
Another non-tariff barrier
Offsetting Behaviour
Rugby Premiership Predictions for Round 18
Stats Chat
Budget 2026
NZCPR
UK Conversion Therapy Ban, Digital ID, Rallies, Elections
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
A central banker’s fiction
Croaking Cassandra
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Get Vaccinated Tomorrow Or Shut Your Pie Hole
Cactus Kate
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

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