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September 22, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 22 September 2023

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General Debate

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SmokerGuy

I dislike Winston and NZ First a lot, probably as much as Seymour but I am not the one who has to potentially work with them. I don’t know what is up with Seymour, he’s been a very smart operator up until the election campaign but he really is doing the right a big disservice since then. Saying he could only offer confidence, constantly mocking and insulting Peters in the debate last night. Does he think this is helping convey the right block as a good alternative to the left? It’s extremely disappointing to see, he is literally giving the left a gift by behaving this way. I was going to vote for ACT but I’m probably switching my vote now to National. He needs to stop this BS, put aside his ego and act like a grown up. Of course he should fight hard for his policies (and National need to be open to ACT’s policies too), no issues at all with that. But New Zealand desperately requires a change of government, he needs to think a bit more about what is best for this country.
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September 22, 2023 8:00am
- SmokerGuy
  
  Forgot to mention the attack attacks on Winston using billboards too.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:59am
  - Grunter
    
    Smoker – I disagree with you. I think Seymour should make a strong stand against woke National. And it’s not as if ACT, with their latest Alternative Budget is that much different to National anyway (they too have moved massively left compared to old ACT).
    
    Chris Trotter has an interesting piece on this.
    https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2023/09/22/chris-trotter-calling-the-big-dogs-bluff/#more-24453
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:49am
    - SmokerGuy
      
      Problem is there is a chance of a new government requiring NZ First. You cannot just pretend it’s not possible. And if ACT are not careful they will scare voters away as they think a right government will be too unstable. Seymour would be better to focus on themselves and show they are mature enough to be a constructive and stable part of a next government regardless of its makeup. I think their strategy is flawed and they will lost votes because of that.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:00am
      - Grunter
        
        If having Seymour standing up to the Nats is enough to “scare” you away – then fair enough. But just remember, you get what you vote for. If Seymour scares you then you get what you deserve.
        
        And, of course there’s a chance of a total cluster Nats/ACT/Winston – again, we get what we deserve.
        
        We deserved to get 3 more years of Ardern – because 50%+ voted for her. So suffer the consequences.
        
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        September 22, 2023 11:33am
  - igm
    
    MSM are also in full action against Chris Luxon, NewstalkZB not only lying about him telling Mike Hosking he would work with Peters, but now having the lying hapless Ginny Anderson get full presentation to refute (with lies) Luxon’s crime figures.
    This type of behaviour is reprehensible and surely must be an indictment of the scum now pervading the halls of journalism.
    
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    September 22, 2023 6:23pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  What is best for the country is Peters having no role in Government. I suspect that this is what Seymour is striving to ensure.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:59am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    I’d love nothing more than for him to not make it too but there is definitely o guarantee of that.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:02am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Not with that attitude – Party vote ACT to keep Winston First out.
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:22am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Party vote Act is no guarantee that Winston will not get in.
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:14am
      - rouppe
        
        @Chuck party vote act will make it less likely that nz first is required in coalitions.
        
        Better to have national/act/nz first 38% / 12% / 5% than 39% / 10% / 6% or 42% / 8% / 8%
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:21pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      And if he does get in there is no guarantee that results in a change of government. FFS, what part of Winston First don’t you understand?
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:24am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        I don’t trust him either but he has said multiple times he won’t go with Labour. I think even he is not stupid enough to go back on that! You can’t force people not to vote for him, I’m just stating that ACT need to be realistic about it as do National.
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:38am
      - I remember when
        
        Winston is fine just don’t ever give him the balance of power!
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:55am
  - Ghost
    
    What is best for this country is to have a change of government and to get rid of labour.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:23am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Yes. Winston is a dangerous wildcard who, if National and ACT don’t have enough votes will go with Labour + Greens + Maori if they offer him what he wants personally (note that most of his policy points are just attempts to hoover up disaffected voters – he doesn’t care about those issues).
      
      Therefore, ensuring Winston is out will play a major part in ensuring a change in Government. Labour’s best chance at this point probably involves Winston.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:10am
      - Ghost
        
        Whether people like it or not Winston is going to get in at around 7 or 8 percent, and he will get in solely because national and act refused to address the protest voters. And if it comes to the point that national need act and Winston to form a government then so be it, it’s better than having 3 more years of labour.
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:21am
      - krazykiwi
        
        (note that most of his policy points are just attempts to hoover up disaffected voters – he doesn’t care about those issues)
        
        100%
        
        This has been his MO for more than 30 years, and seemingly smart people fall for his silver tongued rhetoric one election cycle after another. It is very perplexing.
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:42am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        Ok, how do you ensure he is out of play? You can’t force people to not vote for him. I think Luxon was wrong not to rule him out a few months back but it’s too late now I reckon, hopefully he won’t make it or be required but ACT are not thinking straight when it comes to how they are acting towards him. It’s now a situation where National and ACT have to consider a possibility where he’s required, ruling him out now and then not making it with just ACT could have terrible consequences for the right and the country.
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:43am
    - septic skeptic
      
      There is a LOT of talk now about a three way coalition. I am a bit concerned that this might be Nationals preference even if they could deal with ACT alone. It could allow them to play one off against the other. That might result in Luxon running a caretaker/better management government like John Key did, then the country is still ripe for the plucking when Labour/Green/TPM get back in to complete he puapua.
      At this stage a vote for Winston looks like it could be empowering Luxon over Seymour, better management over real change.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:20pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Skeptical. The caretaker call from national government is simply NOT TRUE.
        
        Although many of us would have liked Key to run a bolder change agenda, Key was well aware that:
        – massive changes upset the low iq swing voters,
        – right wing policies are just reversed when Labour come into.power,
        – the public service is full of numpties hired because they are brown, gay, or lack a penis.
        
        When the public service management numpties are exposed to the public, it is very easy to see they are out of their depth. The covid response is a great example of a bunch numpties whose judgement was so poor, Our grandchildren will be paying for their ineptitude.
        
        Keys government did achieve many great things including
        – reducing the public service by around 10000 (on memory),
        – setting public service targets and achieving them (Tony Riall prpvided a masterclass in how to improve many of the health servide metrics),
        – improving the public service productivity using online forms and IT.
        
        Key also realized right wing policies merely get reversed when Lanour gains power so set about building infrastructure which cant be reversed..
        1. Many effective roadworks and other infrastructure projects were started and completed under the Key government.
        2. The fibre broadband rollout was a well run project and NZ’s exporting IT industry has come on in leaps and bounds since the project was finished.
        
        And compared to Labour, NZ FIRST and ACT; Nationals track record of implementing positive long term change can only be described as stellar!
        
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        September 22, 2023 2:05pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Ghost: “What is best for this country is to have a change of government and to get rid of labour.”
      
      That is of paramount importance at this juncture. Just get the pricks out before they totally wreck what’s left of NZ.
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Those voting for Winston and NZF need to remember what he has done to NZ especially in 2017. Power hungry – then do nothing.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:06am
    - Damocles11
      
      There is no problem with people voting for Winston First – just as long as they are Left wing people defecting from Labour.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:48am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        NO. If Labour can still do a deal to get 61 seats with NZF it is game over.
        Give Winston no chance, not even Party vote.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:43pm
      - Damocles11
        
        Steve, if Labour people vote for Winston we can’t control that. But Right wing people should be able to think it through and not vote for a guy who has gone into coalition with Labour twice.
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:25pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Stephen Russell – That won’t happen. Wait for the next set of polls. Both NAT/ACT and LAB/GRN/TPM blocks won’t have majority and Winston First will be the king maker. Mark my words.
    
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    September 22, 2023 12:21pm
- RoboRob
  
  NZ needs a change of government. Voting National or Act will help achieve that. Voting NZF may or may not achieve that.
  
  Seymour is right to attack Winston on his record AND he is being honest around the difficulty working with NZF in a coalition. National, ACT and NZF in coalition is NOT a good result for a country that needs a change of direction. Winston first sits somewhere between the Greens and national politically. If we want change we don’t want NZF pushing left wing policy or the destabilisation that NZF always brings.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:13am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    NZF does not deserve our vote, full stop!
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:07am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      SmokerGuy.
      Winston first may not blatantly lie, but man he is good at bending the truth.
      
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      September 22, 2023 2:32pm
  - SmokerGuy
    
    Look I agree with you but ask yourself this, would you rather National/ACT/NZ First or Labour/Greens/Maori Party? Because that is a very strong possibility based on polls.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:10am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Why do you assume Winston goes with National and ACT? Are you new to this country?
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:27am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        No I’m not but he has emphatically ruled out Labour multiple times (including again last night) and Labour ruled him out too. I don’t think wvwn Winston is that untrustworthy as to go back on that word. He can see the mood of this country towards the government, I don’t think he wants to go out of politics being the most hated politician in history which is what he’ll be if he does.
        
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        September 22, 2023 10:52am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Smoker, I am surprised you figure to be able to read what is in Winston’s mind. Same goes for Shane Jones his ex-labour deputy. Cam Slater certainly couldn’t read his mind in 2017.
        
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        September 22, 2023 11:35am
    - Damocles11
      
      The polls show National & ACT forming a government, with no need for that bloke that catapulted Jacinda and her wrecking crew into power.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:50am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Damocles11 – Wait and see the next set of polls. You will change your mind. I think next one will a one news poll as they seem to be polling every week now.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:23pm
      - stiff cheese
        
        Someone was talking over him in the debate so I couldn’t hear for sure but I think Winston was trying to say Bill English had told him in private that he would be rolled by his own caucus if he had tried to make a deal with Peters in 2017.
        
        So some of the blame for putting us in the clutches of a 37 year old power-mad woman goes to the National Party of 2017.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:39pm
      - I remember when
        
        Sorry stiff cheese didn’t mean to report.
        Was just going to say that Winston would say that wouldn’t he.
        
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        September 22, 2023 2:53pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Sorry Smoker, if someone stands up, mocks and insults Peters, I’m all for it. Peters is a opportunist charlatan. He let his own personal rancour with certain National politicians (and his greed for “baubles”) get in the way of forming a half reasonable Government in 2017. And it’s not the first time he’s done things for himself, rather than the good of the country. He should be mocked, insulted and shunned whenever possible. Never forget, never forgive.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:42am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    I despise them too but if getting rid of this government requires both ACT and NZ First (hopefully not hit its definitely possible) then so be it. The alternative would be a disaster we would not recover from as a country.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:12am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      I’m not as confident as you that the result will be close enough to warrant a coalition with Peters. IMO, Labour are about to be decimated as the least transparent, most divisive, most inept and overall, worst Government this country has had.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:48pm
- leoj
  
  Considering what Peters did to the country in 2017, he deserves everything that has come his way.
  
  Many of us have a good memory.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:04am
  - mawm
    
    And Nats and ACT allowed, actually worked with, Jacinda to run roughshod over our freedoms, bodily autonomy and individual sovereignty. And now they cannot bring themselves to apologise, offer help to those injured or state plainly and clearly that there will never be an attack on our rights like this again!
    
    Winston helped Jacinda form a government but he had no idea how bad it was going to be and he had no foresight as to the massive advantage Covid would give this global cabal to impose their form of communism. I agree he did the wrong thing by putting Jacinda into government.
    
    None of them have come out smelling of roses but somehow we must only blame Winston and not Luxon and Seymour. Luxon is a UN, WHO and WEF acolyte and Seymour is a dick.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:08am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Winston Peters, as Deputy PM, was an integral part of every decision the government made about Covid from early 2020 until the election in October. We must never forget that. How many times in the past has Peters had a retrospective attack of guilt and conscience? More than I can count.
      
      Winston Peters is in politics for one thing only; Winston Peters.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:55am
      - mawm
        
        And we must forget Luxon’s and Seymore’s failure to defend, nay attack on, our freedoms? Winston has never had any integrity and now it seems that the others don’t either.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:05pm
    - stiff cheese
      
      Winston had no idea how bad it was going to be?
      
      Well, he had the first indicator early on when he let Ardern send him overseas to sign us up to the UN’s Compact on Global Migration — yet again handing off sovereignty on important issues to global elites, similar to Key signing the UN’s “bend over backwards for indigenous people” Declaration, officially called UNDRIP.
      
      I don’t care if his coalition partner made him do it, he should’ve refused on the grounds there had been no consultation with NZ voters, and then threatened to bring down the government if it wasn’t dropped.
      
      What did we get out of it, by the way?. . . It’ll look good on Ardern’s CV when she applies for a cushy job at the UN, but I mean us, what did we get?
      
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      September 22, 2023 1:00pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        You say Peters should have refused to do what his coalition partners demanded of him? Yes, it would be great to see a politician with a moral compass and a spine.
        
        But how do you explain the OPPOSITION parties in NZ not only supporting the bulk of Ardern’s tyrannical covid policies, but their only criticism was that she wasn’t doing them ‘efficiently’ enough!?
        
        Tell me how this is any different? They are all liars and fraudsters.
        
        You can’t have it both ways.
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:31pm
      - mawm
        
        Well, he didn’t even by your metric.
        
        The difference between Key/Maori party and Ardern/Winston to me it seems that Sharples got what he wanted from Key and Ardern got what she wanted from Winston.
        
        The bottom line is that neither Luxon nor Seymour stood up for us whom they supposedly represent when it mattered, why should I vote for them now?
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:33pm
      - stiff cheese
        
        “Clan”, the ‘herd mentality’ is the explanation you ask for.
        
        Most nations ignored whatever Pandemic Plan they had ready to handle the next pandemic, and chose instead to follow the lead of China by taking the path of ‘lockdowns’.
        
        That got the early momentum — and then no one wanted to stick their neck out to follow their own plan. If you all turn out to be wrong together, then you can console yourself “well, at least I did no worse than the others”. The worst place to be is the ONLY one wrong when everyone else was right. You’ll never have that regret if you follow the herd.
        
        So at the level of nations, they all followed China’s response like a herd. And within each nation, the politicians wanted to be a herd too…. Looking for safety in numbers in the face of the unknown, it’s that simple.
        
        Unfortunately there’s still no willingness to admit any poor decision making, as you and others have mentioned before. In fact, they might double down on it with the proposed WHO Pandemic Treaty…. Any of our lot refusing to sign that?
        
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        September 22, 2023 3:47pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        stiff cheese – nope, nobody in NZ talking about that either, except Peters. Funny that! As for the ‘herd mentality’. All except Sweden who proved them all wrong. Funny that!
        
        Meanwhile, 120 ‘representatives’ continue to pretend nothing happened in the last 3 plus years. Go figure.
        
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        September 22, 2023 9:50pm
- 2ic
  
  Your completely correct, SmokerGuy.
  
  Although it will irk many on this blog for me to say so, Seymour sounds desperate and petulant with his continued attacks on Winston Peters. It allows Winston to take the higher ground an appear more statesmanlike, and I’m pretty sure it will end up resulting in NZ First getting even more votes.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:49am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    Haha I knew I would cop it for this post but it’s great reading people’s different comments and perspectives 😊. It is really not a good strategy by ACT and I cannot understand why Seymour doesn’t just ignore Winston where possible and act more statesman like. It looks extremely desperate putting up billboards attacking him like they did as well as the other attacks. People are very turned off by that, makes no sense at all.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:08am
    - 2ic
      
      I commend you on your bravery – I know from my own posts that any mention of NZ First does trigger many on this blog.
      
      But those National/Act voters who take no prompting in the boot into Winston Peters really need to take a look closer to home at their own parties and what they’ve become. They’re now globalists beholden to unelected bodies like the WHO, UN, WEF, Chinese influence etc.
      
      Looking at the debate between Luxon and Hipkins the other night, it was hard to see much difference between National and Labour.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:47pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    2ic – is it just me or do people not see the irony of calling Peters untrustworthy when Seymour continues to lie about the jabs and excess all cause mortality?
    Nor have I read anyone yet pointing out that a month ago he ruled out working with Peters, then in the debate he acknowledged he might have to?
    
    Is that not another example of lying? Is that not another example of being untrustworthy?
    The lot of them need to grow up and do what is best for NZ.
    It looks increasingly as though Peters will comfortably get over the threshold.
    
    I’ll say it one more time, the blame for that can be laid at the feet of National and Act for refusing to acknowledge any of the abuses meted out to innocent Kiwis over the last 3 years.
    
    They left the vacuum that Peters is filling. They can close it with a simple public statement but apparently they haven’t got the stones or the brains or the moral fortitude to do so, even though it is the right thing to do.
    
    It will be what it will be, but when you have the easy solution to fix a problem and refuse to use it, you reap what you sow.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:29am
    - Damocles11
      
      Peters voted for lockdowns and said ‘no jab, no dole no parole’. Seymour tried to end mandates. I’m sick of people trying to rewrite history just because Peters changed his tune after getting booted out.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:52am
      - mawm
        
        Seymour was an avid supporter of both the jabs and vaccine passports and all they meant. Where did he suddenly come out against mandates? That sounds contradictory.
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:37pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Tried to end mandates? He said they should be dropped. How is that trying to end them? So did Luxon, so did Ardern. The only difference was when they all said it.
        We now know the mandates were illegal. They should have been opposing them from the day they were announced.
        
        They all supported vaccines, passports and mandates at the beginning. Not a word about the abuses of human rights that these measures entailed. Just the usual politics, “we would do it better than they would.”
        
        Peters has changed his tune. Probably for political advantage.
        
        Luxon and Seymour haven’t changed their tune. Seymour still claims the jabs are safe and effective, he still claims the didn’t kill anyone and he still claims there is no excess all cause mortality in NZ.
        
        None of them will even talk about it. Peters is and people are listening.
        
        National and Act know what to do and it’s the right thing, the fact they still refuse to speak at all is really concerning.
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:54pm
    - 2ic
      
      I actually voted Act in 2020, and National for about 2 decades prior. But I’ll never vote for them again until they acknowledge the harms they have been complicit in over the Covid response.
      
      I’ve never voted NZ First before, but they are the only party (that is going to get over 5%) prepared to face some very important issues for me:
      – Covid response review – including safety and efficacy of vaccines.
      – End vaccine mandates (still required by healthcare workers).
      – Repeal the Therapeutic Products Act.
      – Remove gender ideology from the school curriculum.
      – Ensure no men are in women’s spaces or sports.
      
      These issues seem to be too much for National and Act to handle, so I don’t have any party to vote for other than NZ First at the moment.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:04pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        My bet is that if Winston First are part of the coalition, they will do nothing substantial on your first 2 points. Don’t know on point 3. Points 4 and 5 will get addressed anyway.
        I hope and think that National ACT hold a proper covid inquiry anyway.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:27pm
      - rouppe
        
        I just wonder if, two or three years down the track, when we still have high inflation, our dollar is weak, and petrol is still over $3 a litre, whether anyone will really care that those 5 things have happened – if they do happen.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:32pm
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        2ic – Very good. Appreciate your intelligence in not voting Democracy NZ or TOP.
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:51pm
      - mawm
        
        Rouppe – I’m sure those with chronic auto-immune disease or those who lost a spouse/father/child, etc, when they make the connection, will very much care about what happens to 1, 2 and 3. This cannot be whitewashed any longer.
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:41pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        septic skeptic – he likely won’t have enough influence to achieve those first two, whether he wanted to or not.
        Most likely National and Act will have the bulk of the power. It’s my hope they will come out and do something, that their current cowardice is fear of alienating a percentage of voters.
        
        If they do then fair play, and they will get my support in future. All I’ve ever pointed out is that Peters is exploiting the political void they have left for him, it’s nothing to do with me being a fan of his.
        
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        September 22, 2023 1:59pm
- Media hater
  
  Good on Seymour. Peters can sit on the cross benches (if he makes it), voting in favour of co-governance repealing legislation.
  
  As a man of principle, there is no reason why he wouldn’t is there?
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:02pm
- goNZ1
  
  Has NZ become a failed state? What happened to the Kindness mantra these past long 6 years under Labour,after billions wasted in pointless health restructures?
  …Meanwhile, GPs say no one knew the true level of unmet need: the children who cannot hear because they need grommets, the people giving up work because they require cataract operations and the elderly ending up in care while waiting for hip replacements.
  GPs had “long argued” there was no visibility in the system of these patients.
  “This is because of those people who aren’t being added to waiting lists because of the shift in criteria, or who aren’t even being referred by GPs because they know they won’t be seen.”
  Dr Betty said patients who were assessed as needing a procedure should go on the waiting list “no matter how long it is”.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/health/2023/09/wellington-doctors-told-to-stop-referring-women-to-specialists-unless-their-condition-is-urgent.html
  
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  September 22, 2023 1:02pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  I don’t believe Seymour is anything like as smart as he thinks he is. He reminds met of Jeb Stuart’s Calvary around Gettysburg.
  
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  September 22, 2023 7:12pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Apropos of yesterday’s Minor Party debate, interesting to note that all four of the featured leaders are Maoris.

Poor old James Shaw. Still, perhaps the Greens didn’t want him to feel like he’s the token pakeha.
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September 22, 2023 8:00am
- I remember when
  
  Te Pati Maori certainly didn’t want Rawiri Waititi spoiling their chances.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:04am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    His mother is ill in hospital.
    Rawiri Waititi has cancelled any campaigning at the moment.
    
    https://www.teaonews.co.nz/2023/09/21/rawiri-waititi-takes-time-out-from-election-campaign-to-be-with-his-mum/
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:39am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Kudos to him. That is getting ones priorities right.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:45am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        kk – not sure if you’ve still got my email address? I’d be keen to get your opinion re this election.
        
        I read your comments re Peters yesterday and fully understand. I find him deceptive and untrustworthy and I know he enabled Ardern.
        
        You might have read my objections to Luxon (his lunatic obsession with net zero, a narrative which will be even more destructive than covid) and Seymour (his deliberate lies around all cause excess mortality stats).
        
        Also both of them refusing to even talk about what were likely the most significant 3 years (ongoing) in NZ history.
        
        I’m one of the 12% ‘undecided’. I’m guessing many of those are like me, simply wanting some sort of acknowledgement of the horrors of the last 3 years. I don’t think this country can possibly move on until the big conversation is had.
        I may not vote at all such is my level of disgust with all of them, that won’t stop Peters getting in.
        
        If you have some more nuanced insight I would really like to hear it. I DO want to see the current parasites crushed at this election.
        
        Cheers.
        
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        September 22, 2023 11:58am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Sure, Clan. I’ll ping you later today …. kk
        
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        September 22, 2023 12:03pm
      - kowtow
        
        clan
        
        If you want to see the current parasites crushed , then you shouldn’t opt out of voting and let others do the crushing.
        
        Every vote counts .
        
        make your count too.
        
        Others have made huge sacrifices to ensure our freedom to.
        
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        September 22, 2023 5:31pm
    - Ghost
      
      Good on him, hope his mum is OK.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:49am
Warren

A couple of things that have got my attention this week on whether New Zealand Politics is fair and honest.
The first was on the panel of the Leaders debate where Miaki Sherman was asked by Jack Tame who she picked as the winner of the debate Chris Hipkins or Chris Luxon, her answer was astonishing that she could not vote against Chris Hipkins because he was her friend so called it a draw. Then Last night One News had done a poll on who was the most trusted Leader of all the Party’s in this Election and the answer was Chris Hipkins on 28% then Luxon on 23% with daylight to the rest, Seymour, Peter’s, Davison and others.
I have no problems about doing a poll but have serious questions on how in a day that Chris Hipkins is the most honest Leader of a Party that is standing at the 2023 General Election especially after seeing and hearing Miaki Sherman’s view on who one the Leader debate.
The main concern is how the question or questions were framed.
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September 22, 2023 8:00am
- nathie
  
  It’s obvious then that TVNZ needs to require Maiki Sherman to “be excused” from participating in the political debates.
  
  Otherwise it is a conflict of interest (like it would be in a court case if a jury member was friends of the accused).
  
  Why TVNZ didn’t figure that out in the first place is an indictment on them.
  
  Who cares if Ms Sherman is their chief political reporter – they have other political reporters don’t they?
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:07am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    If you think conflicts of interest matter to the media, then you haven’t been paying the slightest attention to the MSM these last few years.
    
    PIJF?
    Ardern’s former flat-mate being the political commentator du jour?
    “No matter what we say, no matter what we do”?
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:25am
  - thirteenstars
    
    You might just say she’s being honest about her allegiances. Unapologetic. I’ve got the mic, not you, so you and your cis-gender mates can bugger off.
    
    We’ll see more of it. It’s a form of virtue signalling to declare such things. They don’t pretend to be objective just like they don’t pretend to defend free speech or equality before the law, declaring themselves for the equity of co-governance, and grooming school children by teaching 8-year-olds about sexual orientation.
    
    They say it every day in a hundred different ways. They wear it like a badge for all to see. Don’t say you didn’t see it coming, that they didn’t lay it all out in front of you.
    
    Sell TVNZ.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:23am
- RoboRob
  
  This is the problem with all our media. They all have agendas and bias but most pretend to be neutral. Good on Miaki for being honest. I think its fair for listeners to know where ‘journalists’ are coming from. When you hear that Tova was Jacindas flat mate that puts everything Tova says and every question she asks (or doesn’t) in a totally different light.
  
  In some ways we would be better served by media like CNN and Fox where you know the viewpoint you are getting your opinion news from.
  
  p.s. Even having Miaki on the panel, given her friendship does however say something about TVNZ.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:18am
  - nathie
    
    Apparently Ardern “refuted” (denied) that Tova was her flatmate.
    
    But the trouble is Ardern’s “refutes” (or denials) don’t seem to count for anything!
    
    Which is not a good look but that’s what happens when one is generally a l..r!
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:36am
    - Trev
      
      Ardern doesn’t/didn’t know what refute means let alone what GDP was! Ardern quickly showed the nation that she was not to be believed.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:46am
  - Ghost
    
    Jacinda and Tova living together was a rumour that was fake. People live too much in spreading fake shit
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:47am
    - RoboRob
      
      Lol, I fell for that one 🙂
      
      I stand corrected.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:16am
    - kowtow
      
      yeah well it works both ways.
      
      Her regime was the biggest purveyor of fake .
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:25am
    - Ghost
      
      Shouldn’t work both ways, should be above that. Just because labour’s lie, abuse and manipulate doesn’t mean we should because then you’re no better than them
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:59am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Who the fu@k are we Ghost?
        
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        September 22, 2023 7:20pm
- nathie
  
  And talking of TVNZ and their Leaders’ debate. The MSM are saying in unison that last Tuesday’s debate was “boring” and Hipkins/Luxon were blamed.
  
  Actually blame lies with the debate moderator, Jessica Mutch McKay, as she continually interrupted the two leaders when they gave fuller answers.
  
  Perception wise it seemed JMM wanted short and concise 5-10 second sound bites for answers.
  
  But sorry this is not TV 1 News (where the tv msm wants 3-5 second soundbites (even 10 secs is too much for them).
  
  But sorry again, JMM is not suited to being a moderator (if she uses her normal instinct) and again what does that say of TVNZ? Yet another indictment on them? If so why does TVNZ/1 News bother to exist as a public service entity when they can’t even get the basics right?
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:18am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Let’s take a look at the journalists that I’ve seen so far dominating the election coverage:
    
    – Jenna Lynch.
    – Tova O’Brien.
    – Jessica Mutch McKay.
    – Jack Tame.
    – Paddy Gower.
    – Maiki Sherman.
    
    Even adding in the ones I’ve missed, could you scrape enough grey matter out of those skulls to make up one whole brain?
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:01am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Probably not grey. A thimble collection of red and green goo?
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:16pm
Opie

Seymour on working with Winston Peters

“This guy is like an arsonist turning up in a fireman’s uniform saying he is here to help”

Gold.
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September 22, 2023 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Reminds me of George Wilder. Escapes and goes bush, then turns up to help the Police look for himself LOL!
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:52am
  - Lance
    
    Ozzy Osborn joining in the protest against his concert
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:34am
Benedict Yu

Jacinda is giving interviews in NYC.

All a bit vague. 😕 She does say that she hopes that she has inspired other sensitive and kind folk to step forward and to become effective leaders.

https://goodmorningamerica.com/news/story/former-new-zealand-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-burnout-103337531

“If you’re sensitive enough, it means you’re empathetic. We need more empathy in leadership. We need more kindness in leadership.”

Here is the video of the interview. Just in case you want to start your day on a happy note. 🤡

https://youtu.be/Ps5XU1_jPnU?si=_p4gTd1RSMHP8xAn
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September 22, 2023 8:03am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  You know what? When I think of Ardern, ‘kindness’ is not one of the things I associate her with.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:06am
  - mandk
    
    Precisely.
    
    The woman is 100% FAKE.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Since the speech in 2009. It is on the google machine if you want to watch.
      
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      September 22, 2023 8:55am
    - Rusty
      
      @mandk,
      
      As Barry Soper said -Ardern should never have been PM in the first place.
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:03am
      - RoboRob
        
        Pity he wasn’t out saying anything against her prior to the 2017 election.
        
        25 1
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        September 22, 2023 9:21am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Or 100% woke dipstick? Or am I being too unkind?
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:18pm
  - kevn
    
    Chris… feral seems more like it.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:42am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Nor effectiveness, that’s for sure.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:26am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Self-aggrandisement is one.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:25am
- Blog-aholic
  
  She used the wrong word it is not empathetic, it is pathetic.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:11am
- Nickc2
  
  What’s the point? Who cares? She’s yesterday’s calamity on society.
  If people want to listen to the rantings of a demented and past PM of Lil-Olde New Zealand, more fool them eh?
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:11am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Just remember what she has done when it is time to vote.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:19am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Well, we already have Helen Clark for that.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:25am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Vomit inducing
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  We never ever want another lying leader like her.
  Not reading the links just yet, I get angry when I see her name.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:19am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    #metoo but Hipkins is as equal a liar if not worse
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:23am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He is worse. Ardern used him when her lies were close to being found out. The fall guy.
      
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      September 22, 2023 8:57am
- Lee C
  
  Ardern went with ‘Kind’ because she couldn’t spell ‘Sociopathic’ IMO, Benedict.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Too unhinged to even understand the word.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:45am
- Bloody Dago
  
  Just the visual image of this woman is enough to induce a projectile vomit
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:32am
- Frank the tank
  
  It’s a strategy from the left.
  
  She would have been on instructions in an attempt to win back waiving under 30s females. Nothing happens with that individual that is spontaneous and unplanned.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:35am
- Scooter
  
  What a fraud, fake and phoney. She wasn’t too empathetic or kind to those wanting to be with dying relatives during COVID. Nor was she kind when she said there would be 2 classes of people in NZ.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:35am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My ex-wife’s sister was put in a nursing home to make a bed available in the hospital. She lasted about 11 days, died from Covid. Taken to be cremated. Relatives could not even get on the property to go to the chapel.
    The fact that the woman had invasive throat cancer was irrelevant to the Covid. She was going to die without it. Had to get those Covid numbers up for the fear porn.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:05am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      What sort of prick would downtick that?
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:45pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        The same sort of scum who voted for Ardern and will still vote for Labour.
        
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        September 22, 2023 2:22pm
  - alan
    
    I watched my Mum die on FaceTime in the UK as I couldn’t bypass the lottery system. Hipkins was part of those who caused that. The look on my mums face wondering why her son was on a screen and not with her still haunts me.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:25am
    - Tricati
      
      My sincere condolences – No one should have to face that ordeal, and sadly illustrates how appalling mean Labour were.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:40am
    - Keith White
      
      One of the many reasons why never forgive, never forget.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:17am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      alan – I am so sorry to hear that.
      
      It is one of the reasons why this thing cannot be allowed to be forgotten and us all to ‘move on’ as some on this blog implore us to do regularly. Never forget.
      
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      September 22, 2023 2:24pm
  - stiff cheese
    
    Was she kind when pregnant Charlotte Bellis wanted to leave Afghanistan to have her baby?
    I missed that.
    
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    September 22, 2023 1:23pm
- My
  
  Still in the meaningless waffle space..”the answer for me personally was, no, it was time for someone else…So, a bit different than burnout.”
  So she wasn’t burnt out, just not enough left in the tank, and wants to give someone else a turn.
  
  How is that working out for your party Jac?
  What a lot of crap.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:36am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Burnt out after a six week taxpayer funded Christmas holiday while the country imploded.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:51am
    - kowtow
      
      I suspect that Labour internal polling or somesuch had shown Brand Jacinda had become toxic to Brand Labour and she was told that for the sake of the party ( not the country) she must step aside .
      
      The question being who was the real power behind the throne.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:31am
  - Rusty
    
    @My..
    
    And Jacinda still can’t find time to marry her partner Clark!
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:09am
    - Matt Long
      
      Castro’s son is recently single, not sure if cis is his thing.
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:31am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Matt
        
        Are you accusing Justins mum of inFidelity?
        
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        September 22, 2023 9:36am
      - Matt Long
        
        https://images.app.goo.gl/7jS23yZYXy2iryZW6 Castro/Justin
        https://images.app.goo.gl/jiDqYwDFKD2AUuAk7 Pierre Trudeau
        
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        September 22, 2023 2:16pm
    - Guy Preston
      
      There are plenty of unsubstantiated rumours about their relationship, but right now, what matters is consigning the lot of this administration to the job seeker allowance – and even that is too good for them.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:05am
- Swifty
  
  Er no.
  
  What we need in leadership is more integrity and more effectiveness and we need it desperately.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:49am
  - Matt Long
    
    Person sinking to neck in quicksand. Regressive virtue signaller, “oh I really feel empathy for you, would you like a hug?” Makes more quicksand.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:58am
    - Swifty
      
      Exactly Matt.
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:06am
- Philview
  
  Interesting that it is a global meeting of left wing leaders and Jacinda is there. Sir Keir Starmer giving a speech heaping praise on the EU has obviously been picked up by the UK media.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:55am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  And she was empathetic? When exactly? When kids ram raid stores every night? When kids stop going to school in their droves? Sorry, but looking miserable when you are miserable looking isn’t empathy. It’s just being miserable looking.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:45am
  - Debsta
    
    The lefties confuse kindness/empathy with sentimental/weakness…THEY ARE NOT THE SAME 🙄
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:53am
- Ruawai
  
  Who told Jacinda she was an effective leader? I would have thought quite the opposite, look at the mess she left behind for Hipkins to try and clean up.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:10am
  - John Loveridge
    
    I’ve observed many effective leaders, and personally known one or two. I don’t count Ardern in that company.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:46am
- krazykiwi
  
  We are saddled with these nauseating displays of self aggrandizement because the media (aka state propaganda sirens) refuse to call her to account.
  
  Her smirking while acknowledging see was deliberately manufacturing an untermenschen (underclass) was chutzpah sufficient to make African dictators blush.
  
  Ardern was the most vile, destructive PM in New Zealand’s history, and by a wide margin.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:53am
- cmm
  
  Leadership is not just being popular and handing out cuddles. That’s just a popularity contest.
  
  Forcing people to do things they want, overruling all input, is not leadership. That is dictatorship.
  
  Real leaders are able to explain and lead people in unpopular directions because they see it is the right thing to do and convince those around them.
  
  Cindy has never did any leadership at all. Though no doubt, in her mind, she’s one of the greatest leaders ever.
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:15am
- Frank Thomas
  
  Saying she didn’t resign due to burnout…..and in other news, water is wet……
  
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  September 22, 2023 1:35pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Thanks but no thanks. I don’t want to throw up right now!
  
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  September 22, 2023 2:18pm
Biscuit

Good news for Chippie.

Just when he is thinking underdogs never win, little-fancied France are leading huge favourites Namibia 54-0 early in the second half in today’s RWC game.
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September 22, 2023 8:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  France should give up now. Once a top team, what has happened?
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:21am
- emmess
  
  No spoilers
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:58am
Damocles11

Both Davidson and Packer seemed to be on something in last nights minor party debate. Davidson was carrying on like a muppet with ADHD the whole time. High-fiving each other twice, and a wealth tax is a ‘bottom line’ for both TPM and the Greens it seems. Both these parties know they will have the desperate Hipkins over a barrel if the parties of the Left get up on election night.
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September 22, 2023 8:09am
- Loddenthinks
  
  They won’t.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:27am
- k1w1
  
  Calling the wealth tax a bottom line should be discussed by media and commentators a LOT more. It should have swing voters who lean towards Labour running for the hills. Does Chippy not favours, which is great!
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:01am
Grunter

You know the country is buggered when the “hard right” “low tax and less govt” party (ACT) release their Alternative Budget and it shows Debt in 4 yrs time only dropping from $191 Billion to ……..$186 Billion!

Wow, we now have “National- Lite” ACT party to buddy up to the “Labour-Lite” National party…..

Just shows that the system is completely broken. Tax and spend can never work!

Of course Seymour is vote chasing and the real solution would never be voted in, as proven by the original ACT founders (Sir Roger Douglas etc).
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September 22, 2023 8:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Labour projects to be surplus in 4 years. No good with numbers – hopeless.
  You don’t borrow and spend all of that money and become debt free in 4 years.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:11am
  - zulumonster
    
    Pretty sure a surplus is a year on year measure – not a measure of total debt. So if you have $1 more coming in than going out for the year you are in surplus and reducing that debt.
    P.S Labour’s numbers are still not to be trusted
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:15am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That is double dutch. Just allows them to feed more lies.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:25am
    - cmm
      
      Correct.
      Deficit is not debt.
      Getting into surplus just shows which way the money is flowing: into or out of the hole.
      
      When they say “back in surplus in 4 years”, they really mean “we’ll still be in deficit for 4 years”.
      
      ie. You know that huge $160bn or whatever debt hole we have? Well for the next 4 years they will be making it deeper.
      Then they get back into surplus and can start filling the hole a shovelful at a time.
      
      Actually filling the hole would take a generation or two of surpluses.
      
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      September 22, 2023 11:20am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Surplus refers to the yearly budget. It says nothing about the public debt, the interest on it is currently $9 billion per year.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:30am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      OK guys, I am getting it now. Something I did not know, and I am good with numbers.
      High school – how many could multiply 4 numbers against 3 – in their head?
      No calculators back then!
      
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      September 22, 2023 2:38pm
- RoboRob
  
  A 5b reduction is debt over 4yrs would be greeat. That is a huuuuuuuge turn around from the current 10b+ increase in debt per year.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:23am
  - cmm
    
    At 5bn reduction in debt, it will take 30 years or whatever to clear the current debt.
    
    There is no way that will be sustained for 30+ years.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:21am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The socialists will be back in 15 years, not 30.
      The voters are being taught crap at kindy now!
      
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      September 22, 2023 2:42pm
- MCōs
  
  Politicians predictions aren’t worth a bag of beans.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:03am
  - nathie
    
    But what then if the gst is removed?
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:24am
- krazykiwi
  
  That level of debt is the single largest indicator of New Zealand’s future as an impoverished little backwater, one in which politicians will live high on the hog while interest payments suck funds from the rapidly emptying pockets of the one-time wealth creators. Those that have the option will simply leave exacerbating the situation.
  
  Things will only get worse while New Zealanders continue to think that “Change the government – Horah!” is the solution.
  
  We need root and branch structural reform, and the first step is agentic citizens who recognise that governments are the source of these ills, not the solution to them.
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:02am
  - Grunter
    
    Krazykiwi – you crazy guy! Way too much rational economic thinking……
    
    I agree, governments are the source of our ills. And our most ‘hard right’ political party is being slanted for cost cutting. But they are still running annual budget deficits that build even more debt.
    
    If Seymour was 100% honest he would say;
    “We are going to increase Net core crown debt (excl NZ Super Fund) from the current level of $155 billion to $184 billion by 2027. That’s exactly what his Alternate Budget says….
    
    ACT is the best ‘dirty shirt’ – but it is still nuts!!
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:24am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, and I think that is exactly why they cranked up the debt.
    
    Now we have a huge lump of concrete around our necks which multiple generations will not be able to shake off.
    
    When that happens people just throw in the towel and say screw it and join in the feeding frenzy – making the debt even bigger.
    
    We could be frugal for the next 30 to 50 years and clear the debt, but who would sign up for that? 5 years fine. 10 years maybe. But a whole generation (or two) no thanks.
    
    “We need root and branch structural reform, and the first step is agentic citizens who recognise that governments are the source of these ills, not the solution to them.”
    
    That only happens when the government has completely collapsed and people realise that the government can’t do anything for them. That’s Zimbabwe, and soon South Africa. Maybe in 20 years NZ too.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:27am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes. That was the USSR’s path too. People need learn that when a politician promises a ‘solution’ to take away their life pain, what they are in promising is, in reality, to mortgage their futures with even greater life pain.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:01pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “I am from the Government and I’m here to help”
        Ronald Reagan.
        
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        September 22, 2023 2:46pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    kk – then you will likely be impressed with the recent NZDSOS conference that was held on the weekend.
    
    How does a new independent health system sound to you? As you contemplate that thought you can be assured that the work to achieve this has already begun, as an exciting conference has illustrated.
    
    For Two Years We Have Alerted the Public and NZ Authorities
    
    https://www.trialsitenews.com/a/new-zealands-physicians-group-wants-reforms-to-kiwi-health-system-gov-based-on-alleged-covid-19-abuses-47278759
    
    Saturday 16th September marked the date of a unique opportunity for a large crowd to gather at Mt Eden Park in Auckland to meet some of the New Zealand Doctors Speaking out with Science (NZDSOS). This group of experts shared compelling evidence associated with their core topics covering Truth, Justice and Healing.
    
    I would loved to have been able to attend.
    
    Here’s a report on the conference from the BFD.
    
    https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/09/22/nzdsos-speak-truth-justice-and-healing/
    
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    September 22, 2023 2:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just watching the idiot box. We have primary school kids giving their views on CO2 emissions. Man, they have been well and truly programed by their marxist teachers.
Then we have a GNS Social Scientist being interviewed.
What the hell is a social scientist. What has that got to do with kids with coded instructions?
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September 22, 2023 8:17am
- kowtow
  
  GNS social scientist .
  
  Well there’s a saving to the tax payer right there after the election.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I thought kids went to school to learn the basics. What is the reason to learn about so called climate change when they don’t understand numbers? Oh I know, learning how to be a Labour/Green Politician!
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:24am
  - imalwaysright
    
    S.O
    That is why they want 16 year olds to vote.
    They will probably give them UE for voting labour.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:34am
  - Grunter
    
    And National…..
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:35am
- 3-coil
  
  GNS have a new super-woke CEO. She is dragging all the GNS scientists and boffins to their “brave new world” – and they will all be eternally grateful to her.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:31am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Grief…
    
    How the top level has changed……
    
    https://www.gns.cri.nz/about-us/our-people/our-executive-leadership-team/
    
    Pretty damn hard to locate a Geologist or a Nuclear Scientist under the Management/Business overburden.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:01am
- NothingLeft
  
  Education is teaching kids how to think
  Indoctrination is teaching kids what to think
  
  Emphasis being on the latter in 2020’s NZ education system.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:02am
- John Loveridge
  
  I think “social scientist” is just another term for a Marxist academic.
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:06pm
Gravelroad

That was an ill-disciplined, ego-rampant display by the candidates and the “host” on the minor parties TV debate last night.
Too much shouting, screeching and interrupting the person you don’t like, ie Seymour.
I learnt nothing except gangs must be looked after and there are a lot of rich people who must be taxed higher.
At least they mostly talked about National. Don’t think I heard Hipkins mentioned at all.
Even the audience looked bored.
It was an embarrassment.
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September 22, 2023 8:17am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That’s a pretty good sign they know the mood is for change
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    23 days including today.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:19am
- Flossie
  
  It was an ill disciplined rabble. The host/moderator (whatever) did a dreadful job. Ms Davidson is so full of herself. Could not watch the whole thing.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:21am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Best line of the nite was David Seymour in response to Winston….
  
  “He’s like an arsonist showing up at a fire saying I’m here to help”
  
  LOL!!
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:25am
  - Andy from Auckland
    
    Dont worry Maggie, plenty of fools don’t know/ignore the past.
    
    How someone can claim to oppose co covernance while being a key signatory to He Puapua is beyond me, but then again we have the Greens on 12%.
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:52am
- kowtow
  
  The wash up was an embarassment too .
  
  Marama won !
  
  As to the ‘dabate’;
  
  To think those two clown women are MP’s . And yes they were clowns with their silly antics and sillier slogans.
  
  Our country and the dire straits we’re in deserves serious , intellectual and competent leadership , not giggling girls.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:27am
  - emmess
    
    LOL, the nutters on that panel were completely delusional.
    (Apart from Fran O’Sullivan who should have pushed back harder, she is capable of it)
    Basically, Davidson told 80% of the country ‘we hate you’, and they actually thought she won.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:04am
- Tricati
  
  And apart from Fran O’Sullivan, the panel after was just nauseating. Both Jenna Lynch and Simon Wilson are so biased its embarrassing to watch.
  Interesting watching the body language of the crowd during the debate – not many fans for Marama or Debbie.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:29am
  - kowtow
    
    Lynch got a very audible groan from her audience , which looked like it was a “home crowd” when she uttered something very nasty about Seymour to the tune of David’s ‘become a low rent version of Peters”.
    
    Something going on there .
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:50am
    - rouppe
      
      That “home crowd” had a very large proportion of media in there. At least 2 tables were all media.
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:14am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Women compete with each each other using character assassination, backstabbing and sniping. When an industry or workplace is dominated by women that’s the level of social interaction you can expect, and sooner or later the thin veil of professionalism falls and the truth is revealed in all its sneering vindictiveness.
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:36am
    - John Loveridge
      
      When these panel journalists make their puerile little comments they are pinning their true colours to the mast and wrecking any credibility they might have had as impartial commentators. Not that there was ever much to wreck…
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:17pm
- kowtow
  
  At one point the Fran woman said how amazing it was they were all to “some degree” Maori.
  
  That deserves analysis for white, paternalist racism.
  
  Recall at one point the leader and deputy of the Nats were both Maori and practically the whole of te media pa ahti did every thing they could to bring them down. And did.
  
  Likewise the party they all love to hate ( Act) is chocka with Maoris at the top positions , all on merit .
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:35am
  - Flossie
    
    This collection of high ranking political people gives a lie to how hard done by Maori are. I suppose some of them will claim they have climbed to the top despite all the disadvantages and discrimination they have to face.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:32am
  - John Loveridge
    
    I guess Te Pati Media is chocka with institutional racism. That’s why they took down Simon and Paula.
    
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    September 22, 2023 12:19pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    “To some degree” – which means the bulk of their DNA is not Maori. Why do they attach to their minority DNA? Why are they allowed to claim that status when for many, it is single digit DNA?
    
    Follow the money wins the prize every time.
    
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    September 22, 2023 2:37pm
- Frank the tank
  
  It was a inner city left-leaning circle jerk with a pre-selected audience cheering on the brown girls and their Thelma & Louise act.
  
  Both Seymour and Peters were ambushed and didn’t seem to recover and then fell for Wright’s trap at the end.
  
  Watch for Hipkins to push the “coalition of Chaos” line for the next few days.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:54am
softail 1450

Biscuit, I’d chewed my fingernails down to my wrists with the excitement of the spectacle, then I woke up and realized I’d missed the paint drying on the wall. Damn it.
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September 22, 2023 8:17am
Maggie Pie

OMG! And what about Debbie Packer’s TIKI ?

Looked like a film prop stolen from Weta Workshop 😀
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September 22, 2023 8:18am
- Flossie
  
  Exactly right Maggie! Debbie’s Irish mother must be so proud of her.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:24am
- Tricati
  
  The bigger the Tiki, the bigger the ‘woke’.
  Just look at the public servants that get interviewed on TV, and its a wonder they don’t get neck strain.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:30am
  - PeeJay
    
    A firm I once worked for had an interview for a big public sector job. The only negative against us was the “lack of diversity” in our team – obviously more concerned with a tickbox than making sure the right firm were employed!
    
    Was kind of funny hearing that from a bunch of old white dudes sitting in a boardroom, all wearing the appropriately sized (massive) heitiki’s to show how “with it” they were! And all of them were on multiple public sector boards and the like. Diversity for thee but not for me it would seem!
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:17am
  - Lance
    
    I remember a McPhail and Gadsby sketch were with each new camera shot of a woke interviewer, the Tiki got bigger and bigger until it was obscuring him.
    
    That sort of gag would never make to air these days
    Pity as it was bloody funny
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:42am
    - Ruawai
      
      Because that gag has now become fact!
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:12am
      - kowtow
        
        Yep , it hasn’t taken long for what was comedic parody to become reality.
        
        We really do live in very strange times.
        
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        September 22, 2023 11:40am
- CHFR1
  
  I find as a general rule the bigger the tiki the less the Maori, make of that what you will.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:31am
  - greybeard
    
    Sort of like ” the louder the exhaust the smaller the …..”
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:43am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The bigger the “fart cannon” the bigger the dickhead driving it?
      
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      September 22, 2023 9:21pm
- Bloody Dago
  
  The bigger the neck adornment the smaller the brain
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:35am
- Frank the tank
  
  Thought it was Flavor Flav for a moment….
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:36am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    😀 😀 😀
    
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    September 22, 2023 8:58am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Have not seen it. I have a bone fish hook about 12 inches by 4 inches. It is really plastic. Gets a few looks at fancy dress parties!
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:41am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  I thought it was a plastic one from the $2 shop.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:49am
- ClanMcleod
  
  You know the old saying Maggie, “the bigger the tiki the whiter the Maori…..” 😂😂😂
  
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  September 22, 2023 2:38pm
rouppe

Regarding the minor party debate last night, when they were talking about tax, Winston throws out “are you going to tax Maori corporations?” to gasps of outrage.

A recent report shows that Maori trusts have over $8 BILLION of assets, the income from which is untaxed. Ngāi Tahu with $2.28b, Waikato-Tainui jumped from third to second place with $1.97b, Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei has gone from second to third with $1.6b.

That’s a lot of untaxed wealth…
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September 22, 2023 8:23am
- Damocles11
  
  Davidson with the disingenuous retort: “that’s not where the wealth is”.
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:00pm
  - rouppe
    
    And Peters should have shot back with “that’s where 8 billion is”
    
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    September 22, 2023 12:34pm
- Terry Dalee
  
  Yeah, should really start to boycott those iwi owned companies…
  
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  September 22, 2023 2:37pm
RockyJ

Excellent article by Bryce Edwards in the Democracy Project describing how angry the electorate is and how disenchanted we are with politics. He puts it down to the failure of our past political leaders to deliver on the promises they made.

All this is true, but I consider it is as much our failure as a society as much as our leaders’s failure.

We have been like a bunch of spoilt children always demanding and expecting more from poor old mummy and daddy, slaving away to support us. Daddy and mummy have been guilty too by not having the parenting skill to say “no” and telling us to get off our backsides and support ourselves.

You only have to listen to National Radio for a morning and you will discover it is an endless stream of worthy people from worthy causes telling us about problems that would be solved if “only the government would provide more funding”.

The day of reckoning is now upon us when the incoming government is going to have to tell us that we are going to have to solve our own problems. Expect a howl of anguish. It will be a necessary and maturing experience.

As for those who blame the democratic system? Let them rave. Hopefully they will never experience the consequences of their dream of the ending of democracy being realised.

https://democracyproject.nz/
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September 22, 2023 8:29am
- Swifty
  
  Well said Rocky.
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:52am
- Grunter
  
  Well said RockyJ. We, as a society, gets the Govt that we deserve (and vote for).
  
  I have found that over the past few weeks a lot of casual conversations where a lot of people are saying they don’t trust any party anymore, “They are all rubbish” A lot of undecided voters.
  
  You only have to look at ACT’s Alternative Budget to realise how bad the situation is. It is basically a ‘tinkering at the edges’ budget IMO. Same broken system, just not as broken as the clowns currently in office.
  
  Tax and Spend (Collectivism) of any level will never work. Never has, and is mathematically a flawed idea because overtime voters vote for more handouts that we cannot afford.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:04am
- imalwaysright
  
  Rocky
  
  Spot on.
  
  The national sport of New Zealand is the blame game.
  
  Blaming this or that politician for whatever is wrong in their personal universe is the shortest route to their dose of dopamine and the absolution of personal responsibility.
  
  Pathetic
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:16am
- John Loveridge
  
  100% agree with you, RockyJ. I too hear those people on RNZ. There could never be enough money for them.
  
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  September 22, 2023 1:57pm
Matt Long

Winston is Lucy hold the ball for Charlie Brown again.
https://twitter.com/PronouncedHare/status/1704950277663830143
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September 22, 2023 8:34am
- Swifty
  
  So does Maxine think the staff thought Halbert bullied them or not, I wonder?
  
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  September 22, 2023 8:55am
  - Swifty
    
    I mean judging from Maxine’s reply one gets the impression that she thinks the complaints are fake and the complainants are telling falsehoods.
    
    Really? On what would she base those conclusions?
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:13am
  - I remember when
    
    The Tim van der Molen always appeared to be about Labour countering the bad press their member’s departures were generating.
    Raises the question of whether the van der Molen incident was fairly presented.
    
    The Gay community is not being well represented by their representatives!
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:24am
- rjay
  
  Suddenly the left believe that one is innocent until proven guilty.
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:14am
3-coil

How is this possible: TV3 news last night leads with the (Labour whip) Shannon Halbert bullying revelation – yet RNZ news this morning reports…nothing. RNZ bulletin did tell us about lambs playing in the paddocks that were previously flooded only yesterday though. They are pathetic.
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September 22, 2023 8:37am
- RoboRob
  
  RNZ are on the govt payroll, literally.
  
  Hopefully RNZ and TVNZ will both be privatised / sold ASAP on change of govt. Having govt owned Pravda media helps no one.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:31am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    They richly deserve to be cut adrift from the taxpayer teat. Does National have the spine?
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:29pm
Rusty

The two cuzzies should have been separated on the TV3 tv debate last night.

They were working as a team to mock and undermine anything Seymour and Peters said.

But we know that trash talking is what the activist Green and Maori parties are all about.

Their “Redistribution of wealth” answer to all of Nzs problems is a Marxist term.

I don’t know who won the debate between Seymour and Peters but the other two aren’t interested in liberal democracy so they don’t count.
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September 22, 2023 8:51am
- rouppe
  
  Redistribution of wealth other than $8 billion of iwi wealth, to some of which they both have access.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:23am
JC60

Accusations of bullying behaviour by Shanan Halbert certainly serve to put into context the problems Tim van de Molen had with him. Hipkins has fallen back on that old chestnut ” No formal complaints have been made,” which he trotted out repeatedly with Kiri Allan when he was trying to maintain he knew nothing about it.
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September 22, 2023 8:56am
Frank the tank

Anyone going to talk about the fact that a co-leader of the Greens has a Masters from a foreign University yet no Bachelors degree prior to that nor any explanation of this.

Or are we more interested comment made by list MPs regarding Ardern during CovidCult?
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September 22, 2023 8:58am
- RoboRob
  
  The media seems incapable of reporting anything negative on the Greens, no policy analysis and nothing about the dodgy leaders.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:33am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Of course. The left’s only remaining hope is that disillusioned Labour voters go for the watermelons.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:45am
- nathie
  
  Also how does one enroll for a MSc with a BA qualification (let alone uncompleted), surely a BSc is the prerequisite? Does anyone know?
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:47am
- John Loveridge
  
  His “master’s” isn’t actually a real Master’s degree. He holds an “MSc Responsibility in Business Practise” from Bath University. in I looked it up, it’s not hard to find out the details. Here’s a brochure:
  
  https://www.peterreason.net/wp-content/uploads/MSc_resp_bus_prac_brochure.pdf
  
  “The course is studied part-time over two years and is based on a series of eight intensive residential workshops, each of five days’ duration.”
  
  I seem to recall my own Master’s involving a lot more than that. I’m surprised this qualification of Shaw’s can even be called a Master’s.
  
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  September 22, 2023 2:10pm
  - I remember when
    
    Who is the course for?
    This course is not for recent graduates who have no work experience.
    Participants will normally hold a first degree (not necessarily in a management discipline), or will meet the School 0f Management entry requirements by demonstrating appropriate intellectual and professional competence to undertake the programme.
    
    Course requirement details!!
    
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    September 22, 2023 3:33pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Jebus a Masters with just a couple of months work? Not a real degree then, just like his other not real degree.
    
    Seems Mr Shaw cuts a lot of corners and can’t be bothered doing the work. Very on brand for the intellectual light-weights of the Once-were-environmentalists Greens and the air-heads who vote for them.
    
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    September 22, 2023 5:15pm
Grunter

A very timely article from Mises..

“It’s Time for Some Debt and Entitlement Alarmism”
“Meanwhile, although the facts about those annual federal budget deficits and accumulating federal debt are well known, they are barely acknowledged by both voters and our nation’s leaders. Equally unacknowledged are the facts about looming unfunded liabilities in entitlement programs such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.”

Exactly the same can be said for NZ, although we are ‘less broken’ than the USA.

https://mises.org/wire/its-time-some-debt-and-entitlement-alarmism
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September 22, 2023 9:11am
I remember when

Should Newshub be charged with misleading labelling for last night’s minor party leaders debate.
Surely it was the Rebecca Wright interuption show.
What a travesty of a programme, that to be fair to them, was unfair to all party leaders.
It appeared to be mainly about debunking Seymour, showing that Winston and David couldn’t work together and Wright changing her mind about who was speaking.

A complete waste of time!
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September 22, 2023 9:14am
- rouppe
  
  It was a waste of time, though I’m sure Rebecca was trying to rein in some pretty big personalities.
  
  I did notice her left hand shaking quite noticeably at the start…
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:25am
  - RoboRob
    
    If the polis cant shut up and let each other talk they should be seperated and have their mikes turned on only when they are due to speak. At least that way we might actually learn something.
    
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    September 22, 2023 9:35am
oldpark

The winners last night were the people who didn’t tune into so much claptrap .Besides Peters’ and Seymour. There were two women from minor parties who seem to be all hell bent and wanting destruction of NZs way of life and hard won democracy whatever it takes .
Still wondering why the woman known as Fran O’Sullivan from NZ Herald/NZME was there at all.
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September 22, 2023 9:14am
artemisia

Another scam reported today, family furious. At the bank. Not themselves, even though one family member had access to the accounts. Being 84 does not mean the person is not competent to make decisions, though good idea for family to be watchful. Or as in this case, not. Someone else’s fault ….

Elderly widow fleeced of $100,000 in Facebook hacking scam, family furious at ASB bank

“Bank staff had questioned the woman ahead of each transfer to verify they were legitimate, that she knew the person receiving the money, was confident it was “not part of an elaborate scam”, and that if it was the money would likely be lost.”
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September 22, 2023 9:16am
- septic skeptic
  
  I bank with ASB and was quite impressed recently with the rigorous checking required before they would process a large payment for us.
  That said, Joe will be 84 if he finishes a second term 😉
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:37pm
Maggie Pie

I don’t want to sound mean…
but did anyone else think Simon Wilson looked like an old derelict?
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September 22, 2023 9:16am
- rouppe
  
  He was at the Taxpayers Union wrap-up of the leaders debate.
  
  He’s a hard-core socialist.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:26am
  - Bloody Dago
    
    At the TU wrap-up he got his arse seriously kicked repeatedly by Fran and the others joined in telling to f…off. Hilarious to watch, his head dropped to the naughty school boy position as Fran laid into him. Hahaha. He’s a Leftie Fan club founding member and is always opening batsman for Chippie at any opportunity
    
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    September 22, 2023 12:41pm
- Matt Long
  
  Some sort of substance seem to be catching up with him.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:30am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Yes I did and that’s because he is.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:33am
- I remember when
  
  To be honest Simon Wilson looked like he was on something –
  and it might have been a banana skin.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:30am
  - kowtow
    
    I suspect a massive overdose of sanctimony.
    
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    September 22, 2023 2:37pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He has prostate cancer
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/make-every-day-count-simon-wilson-on-the-lessons-learned-from-cancer-battle/XR7EYII625CKRJNK6PP7W2HQ5Y/
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:26pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My grandad died of pancreatic cancer.
    Didn’t stop him havibg a shave and combing his hair.
    Had an open casket funeral and looked amazing.
    
    Jsut saying.
    
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    September 22, 2023 6:21pm
Harro104

Great news that ACT is taking a principled and courageous position to lift the age of Super to 67. It’s high time Super is seen as welfare like any other sort and comes under scrutiny.
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September 22, 2023 9:19am
- rockape
  
  It’s already that in the uk and no one has died ! That costs Nz because people like me end up in NZ and our uk pensions are paid to NZ that payment is now two years later so NZ subsidises the UK. Also I like the uk idea that you can choose to take a pension earlier but it will be less of a pension or take it at an older age and get more.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:32am
- artemisia
  
  Grey Power person on the wireless this morning – but but but some people can’t work after 65. Do they put brain into gear before talking to the country’s largest brekky audience?
  
  Some folk can’t work after 64, 63, 62 … 18.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:47am
- PeeJay
  
  I’m all for raising the age of super……and I know this will not be a popular thought……but this needs to be tied into some detailed thought around discrimination against older workers and the practicality for some workers.
  
  The simple fact is that discrimination against older workers is real. While some on this blog will do the typical “I run my own business so I’m ok jack” or “I’ve never had a problem”, well done – you are exceptional and good on you. However, speaking for a lot of friends in professional occupations who are in their late careers, experience is not really an attractive trait once the workers get into their 50’s – heck, having too much experience on the old CV guarantees they don’t get an interview! I know of many colleagues who struggle to find work in construction profession roles due to age – two have had to go over to WA and do FIFO just to get by. 1 other getting close to 60 actually ended up working at Bunnings! A great PM but no longer cool or hip enough (ok boomer etc) – literally no other reason. All bloody good people that I would hire if I was looking. But too old, too white etc.
  
  There are many out there who would love to work well into their 60’s – and are more than capable, but unless they are lucky, they might not have the opportunity to work. What then? They are unlikely to qualify for the dole (asset rich but cash poor), and suddenly they face a few years struggling.
  
  Then what about manual trades? Some could work like an ox well into their 70’s. Others? Body is all but broken by late 50’s and they are just inching forward.
  
  The concept of moving super is fine but there are a lot of issues to work through though.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:51am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Once physical workers bodies are too beaten up for their trade they should move to roles where their brains and experience can still contribute. Not always possible, but can do a lot. Eg builders plumbers and electricians can do planning, management, inspection work, sourcing, industry linked retail, driving, tutoring/mentoring etc. Or just limit jobs they do – rely more on apprentices to do physically hard stuff.
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:23am
  - MCōs
    
    Everybody is different and from that perspective 65 or 67 or whatever is an arbitrary number
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:24am
    - Diogenes
      
      I was very fortunate to be hired at the age of 50 as a graphic designer by one of Christchurch’s largest printing companies. The company valued older employees, and a high proportion of staff were of similar age to myself or older. It was their gain — staff turnover was extremely low. The only ones who moved on quickly were the young ‘uns. And of course the combined experience was invaluable. I know this is not the norm, which is such a shame. If firms would wake up to the benefits of an older workforce, they would be the beneficiaries.
      
      But demographics may have the last say. Sure, we are an aging population, but the rapidly falling birthrate means that the number of younger people entering the workforce is rapidly diminishing, and if firms want workers, they will eventually be forced to take on older people. (Google “Peter Zeihan” for some very good analysis on how this is playing out worldwide.)
      
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      September 22, 2023 10:54am
    - artemisia
      
      Fair comment. However most people know that they are not going to work until they fall off the perch. If people are not able to work until pension age then welfare is the safety net. If they don’t qualify for welfare (yet) due to income or assets, well done them for planning ahead.
      
      There will always be some who need extra support. Hopefully it can be provided by family or welfare top up.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:43pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I did hear about increasing the super age to 67 by doing 2 months extension every year.
    So, the idea is to work your arse off to have a freehold home, a rental, two cars, two boats and a caravan, and also have a nice bundle of money in the bank and then comes the wealth Tax. Piss off! All of that wealth was paid with money that already been Taxed.
    A Tax so the Govt can give it to people who are welfare dependent for generations, and who never had any intention of working. Wrong in so many ways. You get “rich” by working for it!
    
    What is wrong with this picture?
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:58am
- Grunter
  
  Super in most countries is an unfunded future liability. This is particularly true in NZ.
  
  As the population ages the unfunded liabilities of universal Super and universal Healthcare grow to a level that can not be paid for by tax payers. The current system simply cannot continue. That is the hard truth of reality.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:03am
  - miltonF
    
    Exactly. The government has not been financially prudent. They’ve spent the future pension fund in advance, on nice to haves and vote buying.
    
    This is what annoys me about people claiming super is an entitlement. “I’ve been paying into it my entire life so I deserve it”. No, you have not been doing any such thing. You’ve been paying taxes to a govt that has blown all the money. It’s gone.
    
    It reminds me of the South Park episode…”annnnnd it’s gone”
    https://youtu.be/-DT7bX-B1Mg?si=TGTD0AQ8j6h94xC4
    
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    September 22, 2023 4:48pm
Matt Long

Vegan meat alternative company goes under, perhaps there is a future for real food after all.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/agribusiness/132967083/awardwinning-plantbased-business-food-nation-is-closing
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September 22, 2023 9:27am
- artemisia
  
  Tough times for small commodities businesses esp if trying to feed the planet from an expensive location at the bottom of the world. What wasn’t said is if they can make a buck supplying the local market. Assume not, so makes sense to give up a failure. Plenty of other small businesses have.
  
  (Travelled Wellington’s golden mile this week. Lots of empty storefronts, not so golden now.)
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Why any woman would bother voting for Labour is beyond me…

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/498502/wellington-doctors-told-to-stop-referring-women-to-specialists-unless-their-condition-is-urgent
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September 22, 2023 9:34am
- RoboRob
  
  The weird thing is that the doctors are on the streets waving their protest placards which are all bright red with white writing. It actually looks like a pro Labour rally. I’m not sure that’s not actually the intention giving the Unions in NZ.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:39am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Red cross on white background, knights templar coat of arms, are colours most associated with medical sector in NZ. Though in other European countries see a lot of Green for apothecaries
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Stop Co-Governance placards are white on red.
    
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    September 22, 2023 11:06am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The best doctors in NZ were at Eden Park last Saturday.
    
    https://thebfd.co.nz/2023/09/22/nzdsos-speak-truth-justice-and-healing/
    
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    September 22, 2023 2:50pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  Unfortunately Maggy, women as a group put Labour in power in 2017 and then gave Labour a simple majority in 2020. They are reaping what they sowed…
  
  Labours response will no doubt be: “Be kind” … and we sure a teddy bear in the window will fix it all
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:00am
- kowtow
  
  Didn’t Hipkins have trouble with the very definition of a woman.
  
  Even worse , if that were possible, than Cunners apologising for being a man.
  
  So yes , why would they vote for such a bunch of muppets.
  
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  September 22, 2023 2:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

911 remembrance ceremony. Rudy Giuliana walked out because of Kamala Harris.

https://wiredconservative.com/redbloodedconservative/rudy-giuliani-walks-out-of-9-11-ceremony-because-of-kamalas-disgraceful-behavior/

Giuliani explains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moiUf5fgZjY

13 min in is good.
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September 22, 2023 9:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Then 17 minutes in the reasons Trump is so dangerous and the Dems want him gone.
  
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  September 22, 2023 9:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I would not say he ‘walked out’ He left because the disrespect of Kamala Harris and others got to him.
  It was a remembrance ceremony, not a pissup!
  
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  September 22, 2023 3:56pm
Swifty

New Sowell!!!!!! At 93 years of age.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aHR45kC-ch0

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pn2gda_phAA&t=1814s&pp=ygUSaG9vdmVyIGluc3RpdHV0aW9u

Both regarding his new book “Social Justice Fallacies.”

Enjoy.
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September 22, 2023 9:47am
- thirteenstars
  
  The man is a legend.
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:40am
  - NothingLeft
    
    hated by the left as he destroys in his person and arguments so many of their articles of faith
    
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    September 22, 2023 10:55am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/our-auckland-march-is-tomorrow-saturday-23rd-september-10am-bottom-of-queen-street/

I will probably go. Catch a bus over. Is it OK to wear a MAGA hat?
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September 22, 2023 10:01am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Oh God No.
  I have seen a kit on Youtube about turning up to events or protest with unrelated, confusing or satirical placards.
  
  Turning up to an event on a topic and debate completely unique to NZ, with an unrelated and politically charged irrelevancy.
  It is like waving a confederate flag or rainbow flag at the event. Polarising.
  
  Even a neutral observer would make assumption about the crowd, and it is so much easier for media to do like they did for Posie Parker, or the parliament protests and say “Looks, Nazis and Trump supporters”. e.g. disregard them.
  
  Save the hat for when there is a Trump rally here, and then you can wrap yourself up in the star spangled banner and chant “USA! USA! USA!”, “Build the wall!”. etc. etc.
  
  Oh God No.
  Doesn’t really fit in the context you are proposing though, and at worse harmful for an important message trying to reach the people it most needs to.
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:52am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Does doing that make me one of the rent-a-mob?
    
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    September 22, 2023 12:49pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Rhetorical question: fail.
      I would have thought the analogy around waving a rainbow or a confederate flag from within a crowd, and how it can be perceived (or used) would give you the answer you were seeking.
      Why give ammunition to the media, if you really support the intended message.
      Muse upon that.
      
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      September 22, 2023 12:59pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yeah, I know what you mean, but it has been a while since I banged a few heads together. Lost sport to me!
        
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        September 22, 2023 3:59pm
Maggie Pie

STOP CLASSROOM GROOMING OF OUR KIDS

Looks like even ELON MUSK is surprised at the size of the massive backlash protesting explicit sexual content and radical-gender-ideology in our primary schools 🙁

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1704747213736292828
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September 22, 2023 10:05am
I remember when

Green Party Policy:

Is James Shaw master of the science?
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September 22, 2023 10:15am
I remember when

Newshub TV3 News last night.

“Te Waikoropupu Springs given the highest level of pretection from the Government.”

Or, did they mean,

“Te Waikoropupu Springs given the highest level of protection by the Government.”
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September 22, 2023 10:23am
- Colville
  
  Pupu Springs as it used to be known…I SCUBA dived it back in the day…clearest water anywhere in New Zealand… cold as fu*k (like 4C) but it didnt stop us having a beer sitting around the edge.
  Not even allowed to dip ya toe in it now or Whiro will get you!!
  
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  September 22, 2023 5:50pm
Maggie Pie

Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

According to Shaneel Lal, someone tried to kill him in his house.
He goes on to describe….. that when he sought help from those who surround him, the response he got from queers was “fuck off”

https://twitter.com/shaneellall/status/1704810658909614557
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September 22, 2023 10:37am
- Ghost
  
  He seems to make a lot of shit up, wouldn’t believe a thing he says
  
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  September 22, 2023 10:51am
- Guy Preston
  
  Whats pouring out his savings got to do with a home invasion???
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:55am
- Damocles11
  
  Jussie Smollett II
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:05pm
I remember when

Another misleading headline??

New Zealand not alone in failing to meet climate challenge – UN.

New Zealand amongst the majority in failing to meet climate challenge – UN.

There, fixed it.
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September 22, 2023 10:38am
I remember when

Almost a quarter (22.5%) of Ireland’s pubs – almost 2000 in total- have called ‘time’ forever since 2005.
More than 450 since the Covid outbreak.
Between 2005 and 2022, County Limerick lost just under a third, Roscommon 30% and Cork have recorded similar levels.
Ireland’s 6680 remaining pubs are “the cultural and social heart of their communities, supporting social relationships and community cohesion and social capital, reducing the risk of isolation.
Ireland had “some of the highest excise duties in the world and the second-highest in Europe, despite the industry being at the heart of Ireland’s tourism sector.”

Some points to remember.
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September 22, 2023 10:51am
- kowtow
  
  Dey were very proud of bein’ one of de furst , if not de furst to ban indoor smokin’.
  
  And despite all its claims to ( cultural ) Roman Catholicism de Puritanism of de gubbermints dere in its so called anti drink driving attitudes would make a band of Cromwellian roundhead iconoclats blush .
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:48am
Maggie Pie

R.E. UPDATE:
Anyone thinking of moving to the Queen City?

Here’s what can you get over on The Shore for a mill…..

https://oneroof.co.nz/estimate/1-17-jutland-road-hauraki-north-shore-city-auckland-181750

2 bed b&t. 1 Bath. 70 sqm. cross lease.

LOL!!
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September 22, 2023 11:01am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  On top of it being the size of a thimble, it’s overseas Mags. It just wouldn’t do….
  
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  September 22, 2023 5:48pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Troo dat 😀
    
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    September 22, 2023 6:14pm
Chuck Bird

I resigned from National and joined Act mainly because of Luxon’s climate change alarmism.

There is no doubt about David’s high intelligence but his holding a grudge and inability to get on with someone he does not like for the good of New Zealand could see the end of Act. Act had 9 MPs for two terms and then went to one. It can happen again.

It is not just Peters but others. Although I left National there are a number of National MPs I keep in touch with. Simon O’Connor is one. I ran into him at a Maxim dinner recently. I attended a debate between him and Simon on euthanasia. David unnecessarily got personal and nasty towards Simon. He has carried on that grudge in having Brooke stand against Simon in Tamaki. Simon is a good man and that is not how Act should treat a coalition partner.

I have been a long term supporter of Family First. I do not agree with all Bob McCoskrie’s views. However, I say Bob is a good person and not a liar. Below is a link to a short preview of Bob interviewing David. The full interview will air next Monday at 8 p.m.

https://www.facebook.com/FamilyFirstNZ/videos/282361877924522

I will vote Act and encourage others to as well because it is important for the good of the farmers which is vital to our economy.

I wrote to Brooke and did not get the courtesy of a reply. I then tried to get another Act MP to remind her. That is why I am saying this on Kiwiblog.

I say to David reconsider how you treat people with different views to you especially on moral issues like euthanasia and abortion. I am against abortion at 8 months and also schools to arrange abortions for children without parents being notified. Mind you I am not a libertarian.

Regards
Chuck
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September 22, 2023 11:08am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  What a strange disclaimer in your last sentence.
  
  Do you think “I am against abortion at 8 months and also schools to arrange abortions for children without parents being notified” is likely to make people mistakenly conclude that you are a libertarian?
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:21am
- krazykiwi
  
  Interesting commentary, Chuck. Thanks for sharing it.
  
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  September 22, 2023 11:29am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  So Winston it is then? Thanks for the warning…whatever it is.
  
  There are plenty of face to face events, or have been recently, so perhaps you could have raised your concerns with David face to face.
  
  Stating that he ‘holds a grudge’ or ‘can’t get along with someone for the sake of NZ’ suggests you are privy to his thoughts and hidden motivations.
  I have for the most part found Seymour to be the most reasonable, principled, lucid and rational of all politicians in the act of interview or conversation.
  
  Rather than drawing much from the titillating editing of the content of that link, or what you think David thinks, perhaps look at what they openly & consistently state as policy.
  
  Nobody should agree with any party 100% of the time on everything. That is for a fanatic or a fool.
  But you can at least judge them on what they claim to want.
  That is, any party’s intentions around issues that matter at this moment: race, education, size of government, crime etc.
  
  Seems you are worried about perceived personality matters, as you see them, and not around what October means for the future of NZ.
  And this is your break up letter?
  
  Based on your concerns I suggest you vote for Kindness, Empathy and Aspirations, etc.
  Someone who always smiles, and is a great communicator – only ever showing one unwavering facade. -even if they have no real solutions to our problems and aren’t honest on what they think; they will never scowl or be a meanie.
  …..I have the perfect person in mind, if only they were available for the job.
  
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  September 22, 2023 12:49pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “There are plenty of face to face events, or have been recently, so perhaps you could have raised your concerns with David face to face.”
    
    Are you trying to say I am too cowardly to say something to his face? If so, tell us your real full name and we can discuss your comments.
    
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    September 22, 2023 1:50pm
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      No, I did not say, nor did I even imply, that you are cowardly.
      
      You could always speak with David face to face if you had concerns such as would lead you to break openly with a party you were promoting here very recently.
      Not just email and expect a response, as there are plenty of cranks & white noise at this busy time.
      Judge what he says, as he is one politician who seems to state what he thinks. When it comes to some esoteric conclusion around his character you might want to test your theory before committing to it.
      
      I would say Seymour has made a few misteps of late though, but I do not believe that any person or any thing in this world is perfect.
      
      If by giving you my full name (which of course I will not do for reasons I have stated more than once on this blog) you think that we can communicate better, I do not concur.
      
      If you are suggesting we ‘meet’ and settle this like men, I also say no. I will take a wild stab in the dark that I am younger than most the people on this blog. I have sparring partners enough already, since I train (or occasionally train others) 2 or 3 times a week at a martial arts gym/dojo. Besides, such a suggestion (as I understand it) would be quite inappropriate.
      
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      September 22, 2023 2:26pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “If you are suggesting we ‘meet’ and settle this like men, I also say no. I will take a wild stab in the dark that I am younger than most the people on this blog. ”
        
        I do not know how you could come to the conclusion that I ever suggested a fight. It you will not tell us you name how old are you?
        
        [Mod – please stop asking members to give you their personal information.]
        
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        September 22, 2023 4:56pm
ClanMcleod

OMG the comments are gold!!

Canterbury Police have posted a video on Facebook celebrating their trialing of the BMW electric police car!

https://fb.watch/nczwS_CyXa/

The comments give me hope for the future of the country!
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September 22, 2023 11:42am
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING

When Dr Goddek tweets…..people listen.

>>> Over 2.7M views in the last twelve hours!

https://twitter.com/goddektal/status/1704837105401114739
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September 22, 2023 11:43am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The 1st two photos are of her as a teenager
  
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  September 22, 2023 1:08pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    It is a bit mean, being that if you compare pics 10 or 20 years apart one does tend to get more haggard and saggy.
    Even John Key looked tired and older near the end.
    
    And imagine the stress of the job when you are a PR phoney, doing ‘fake it till you make it’, but then you only make it so much worse?
    
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    September 22, 2023 2:32pm
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Yeah Fuzz, but Key was significantly older when he started, worked way longer hours and he lasted a lot longer than Ardern.
      
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      September 22, 2023 5:51pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    She scrubbed up alright, back in the day
    
    0 0
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    September 22, 2023 7:39pm
goNZ1

hey NZ Herald whats the go with closing comments down on political articles after an hour or less lately?
Censorship or what !!!
13 0
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September 22, 2023 1:12pm
- Damocles11
  
  Yes, they are censoring. They are against free speech. They also stop certain people from commenting.
  
  12 1
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  September 22, 2023 2:15pm
Swifty

Full-time Twitter poster and very part-time MP, Marja Lubeck, has a go at those who have claimed her colleague Shanan Halbert bullied them in their workplace:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-chris-hipkins-distances-himself-from-former-colleague-dismissing-bullying-allegations-against-shanan-halbert/WTRB3X6UMFBIHHTO5W2J5ORKJE/

Par for the course with the NZ Labour Party and further proof she has learned absolutely nothing about successfully and fairly managing workplace bullying complaints over the last few years.

I’ve heard she isn’t one of Labour’s sharpest knives, but what would I know, every Labour leader since Clark has endlessly carped on about the fact that their caucus is ‘stacked with talent’.

Exactly what talents remain a mystery to me.
10 0
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September 22, 2023 1:19pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  I had a Facebook exchange with her before she got into parliament. Chunky as hog defecation springs to mind.
  
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  September 22, 2023 3:03pm
Maggie Pie

Not sure what to make of this….but serious if true?

Hard on the heels of rape allegations being made against UK comedian Russell Brand, I see we now have famous American UFC fighter Jake Shields, coming out on Twitter claiming he was raped 18 years ago 🙁

https://twitter.com/jakeshieldajj/status/1704973902487974300
6 1
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September 22, 2023 1:29pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  The Brand character assassination is as predictable as it is worrying. Narrative control reaching new levels.
  British MPs writing to social media companies encouraging them to de-platform someone without them having been charged, let alone found guilty. Good on Rumble for saying “no”.
  
  https://dailysceptic.org/2023/09/21/rumble-rejects-mps-dangerous-demand-to-cave-into-russell-brand-cancel-culture-mob/
  
  And this from the excellent OffGuardian.
  
  Right now Brand is nothing but the subject of media-based mudslinging – there has been no trial, no arrest, and no charge. He is entirely innocent in the eyes of the law and remains that way until convicted, this is a vital right enshrined in British law since Magna Carta [emphasis added]:
  
  No free man is to be arrested, or imprisoned, or disseised, or outlawed, or exiled, or in any other way ruined, nor will we go against him or send against him, except by the lawful judgment of his peers or by the law of the land.
  
  What would prompt the government to overstep like this?
  
  There’s really only one answer to that: The overstep was the whole point.
  
  https://off-guardian.org/2023/09/21/british-mps-are-trying-to-cancel-russell-brand-but-why/
  
  Just as happened in NZ to anyone speaking out against the covid insanity. Just as is still happening to Julian Assange.
  Democracy is in serious peril around the globe.
  
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  September 22, 2023 3:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump signing.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-signs-young-woman-s-deep-tank-top-at-iowa-campaign-stop/vi-AA1h2i4D
3 2
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September 22, 2023 2:08pm
cmm

9 months ago Cindy was burned out, having given everything she had for us….

But now, no, she wasn’t burned out. It was time for someone else.

ie. she realised that the glitter had fallen off the turd and people were no longer fawning over her as much.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300975827/dame-jacinda-ardern-tells-good-morning-america-she-was-not-burnt-out
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September 22, 2023 2:10pm
Maggie Pie

“Prime Minister Chis Hipkins said he stands behind Shanan Halbert”

– Aaron Dahmer (ZB Chief Political Reporter)
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September 22, 2023 2:42pm
- Nickc2
  
  Hipkins should be careful, that’s right up Shanan’s alley.
  There is a word for that type of behaviour but I don’t think it’s allowed on KB.
  
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  September 22, 2023 2:45pm
  - kevn
    
    hipkins got him covered has he?
    
    8 0
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    September 22, 2023 2:50pm
  - JimBobJoe
    
    That is very witty Nick… very
    
    5 1
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    September 22, 2023 3:29pm
Maggie Pie

Yet STILL no mention of the elephant in the room….
do Greens co-leader James Shaw’s qualifications actually exist?

https://twitter.com/InclusiveGreens/status/1704991756826386876
7 1
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September 22, 2023 3:11pm
- Ghost
  
  Small correction
  
  do Greens ~~co-leader~~ soon to be rolled after the election by Chlöe, James Shaw
  
  5 1
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  September 22, 2023 3:23pm
- stiff cheese
  
  And how did he get a Master’s degree without achieving a Bachelor’s beforehand?
  
  How common is that?
  
  5 1
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  September 22, 2023 4:25pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Very common. If your Masters is a one year gig and presented to you on paper napkin filled in with a biro.
    
    4 0
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    September 22, 2023 5:54pm
    - kevn
      
      In Vino… There is always the internet option.
      
      1 0
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      September 22, 2023 6:54pm
Tauhei Notts

I have just finished reading Graham Hryce’s article about the strength of that duplicitous organisation, MeTwo.
Hryce is a well respected Australian journalist. His essay is chilling. He carefully describes MeTwo’s sickening modus operandi.
I regret that I am unable to provide a link.
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September 22, 2023 4:22pm
- Jack5
  
  Is this the link you were thinking of, TH?
  
  https://dailytelegraph.co.nz/opinion/australias-most-notorious-metoo-case-ends-in-chaos/
  
  2 0
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  September 22, 2023 4:40pm
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Thank you Jack5, but the piece I had read was on rt.com.
    It linked the Aussie case to the persecution of Russell Brand.
    
    3 0
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    September 22, 2023 5:35pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Here:
      
      https://www.rt.com/news/583299-russell-brand-face-justice/
      
      2 0
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      September 22, 2023 6:45pm
Scooter

Jacinda’s looking remarkably fuller and fresher in the face, has she now “filled” up her tank and got a little work done?

https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300975827/dame-jacinda-ardern-tells-good-morning-america-she-was-not-burnt-out
5 0
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September 22, 2023 5:09pm
Maggie Pie

Just been enjoying a cheeky French Chablis and watching ‘The Chase’.

My partner reckons whoever thibks it isnt fixed, still believes Labor will win.
2 0
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September 22, 2023 6:09pm
- greybeard
  
  What did you eat with the chablis ?
  
  3 0
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  September 22, 2023 6:23pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I mADE a couple of bloo cheese & honey crostini.
    Still waiting for Uber to bring the tthe Thai.
    
    4 1
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    September 22, 2023 6:53pm

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