General Debate 09 October 2023

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The Redbaiter

So the National party are reduced to begging pitifully for votes because they can’t attract enough support to form a govt without NZ First. Even though the Nats are up against the worst Labour govt in NZ’s history.

A very poor reflection on the National party campaign strategists. Going for the soft center and the green corporate vote was always going to leave the door open for Mr Peters, and this likelihood was pointed out to the Nats again and again, not least by commenters on this very blog. Apparently the party’s brains trust couldn’t work it out.

So now National is in a hell of a mess and they only have themselves to blame. Talk of a second election from Campaign Manager Bishop just highlights their abject failure.

If we do have to have another election, it should be time for a clean out of the green-left corporate faction who have captured the National party and turned it into something it was never meant to be.

Purge the party of anyone with connections to Air NZ or the big banks. Never again should Sid Holland’s fine egalitarian conservative centralist party become a political tool of the green left and woke globalist corporates.

Nicola Willis played a big part in the Muller fiasco that sunk the party in 2020. She later pushed Luxon into the leadership. A man so weak in terms of political principle and who caved in to the left so many times, no one with any self respect could ever vote for him. So she has stuffed 2023 as well.

As Mr Key’s protégé, Ms Willis has been a complete failure and if there is indeed a need for a second election, she should be the first to follow Luxon down the road and Bishop should follow her.

National need to learn from their mistakes (finally) and next time give their core supporters a reason to vote for them. Instead of pushing those supporters to reluctantly vote ACT or NZ First.

Those voters who want to vote National, but will not do so as long as they perceive the party to be infiltrated, led and controlled by the corporate green left.
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October 9, 2023 8:01am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  A well,deserved bollocking for the wet woke Nats. I know there are some solid conservatives in the Nats caucus, but unfortunately they are too few in number to have much influence on policy.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:09am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    Redbaiter (and the many other KB monikers the writer uses) appears extraordinarily in step with the Labour Party and the Unions.
    
    Baseless name calling in a sorry attempt to influence the dimmer voters amongst us.
    
    It won’t work and will even backfire as voters see through it.
    
    Go Luxon and Seymour.
    
    I can’t wait for an intelligent prime minister leading the charge back to the Rockstar economy and democracy.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:50am
    - Damocles11
      
      Yes, the comments from National on not knowing what Winston will do or how long he may keep the nation in limbo with endless ‘negotiations’….it’s all entirely correct based on past experience.
      Winston relishes holding everyone to ransom as the Kingmaker. It does wonders for his ego & ensures he can extract the juiciest baubles from the captive major parties.
      And look at the response from the NZ First fan club and their Labour allies this morning: all the toys are flying out of the cot, National are purportedly ‘wet’ and ‘woke’, Luxon is ‘weak’, Willis is ‘a complete failure’, they are ‘begging pitifully for votes’.
      Really nasty and puerile stuff from the National haters, Winston and Chippy want to get their hands on their precious baubles and Luxon is standing in their path, and their increasingly unhinged supporters are now going berserk.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:33am
      - Kiwiguy
        
        Winston really does have a Napoleon complex.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:55am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Instead of basing your view on Winston based on what Luxon is saying, why not base it on what the entire NZF party are saying? Listen to the interviews on RCR.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:57am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Winston will do whatever is best for Winston; nothing more and nothing less.
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:37am
      - jedmo
        
        I had a knee jerk reaction to party vote NZF when they announced their, important to me, principled and reasoned stands, on the treaty issues; and the gender issues.
        After reflection I backed away – Winston, his bluster, and self serving rationalisations.
        I had always planned, without much thought about it, to candidate vote National. But again on reflection – no independent thought allowed (Maureen Pugh). And, with refusal to stand up for equal rights wrt to The Treaty; free speech wrt Let Women Speak; refusal to be clear about gender issues in schools and sports; WHY should I give ANY support, to what suddenly appears a party that has hollowed itself out wrt principles and standing for values, in pursuit of power. A hollow suited, empty shell of a party.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:35pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  Maori democracy. The Elites get everything. The rest get nothing.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:15am
  - Grant
    
    One man, one vote. Once
    G
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:30pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Maori never had democracy. It was a tribal society with Chiefs(elites) making decisions.
    
    This is just a bunch of elites heading to pre colonial times to try and regain their mana.
    
    Remember, to many, Colonialism is an evil thing.
    They forget it brought the end of slavery, law and order better health options, good clothing options
    etc etc,
    oh, did I forget? A written language.
    
    So forget them(the elites and other idiots) they know not what they do(will do to the rest of NZ)
    
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    October 9, 2023 3:33pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Well said Red,
  
  I saw Bishop on tv3 this morning trying to instill fear and uncertainty in order to get his own way.
  
  Sound familiar ?
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:20am
  - Damocles11
    
    Sounds like Chippy talking about a Coalition of Chaos. Sounds like something politicians have been doing for as long as I can remember: saying the other bloc are inherently unstable and dangerous to the economy and good governance. The ‘covid people’ might try and twist it into something else however.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:36am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Fair point
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:15am
- Littletramp
  
  Can National not count? On present polling about 2/3rds of the voters don’t want National & here we have Luxon and Bishop telling (scaring?) us who not to vote for. The same arrogance & ignorance toward voters that National showed in 2016, when Winston gave them the flick & they wondered why.
  Act and NZ First are coming from a similar space on many basic issues, which is probably why they are portrayed as being at loggerheads.
  Let’s have an election, count the votes and then let them see who holds the leverage, which is given solely by the voters preference -I think the media and campaign managers forget that mechanism.
  Why would you want that meddling Bishop anywhere near governing decisions – he is another Ardern type with his manipulating and bullying manner.
  If National have to negotiate and compromise, that is because 2/3rds don’t want them and other interests have to be accommodated.
  If they get 50%, they have the whip hand.
  Let’s see what the people say.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:25am
  - rockape
    
    Looks like the third biggest party are the Greens, so should they hold the power or were you only thinking Winston?
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:48am
    - Ehlana
      
      The power can only be held by someone who could, at least in theory, go with either Labour or National. I think the Greens will only go with Labour.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:41am
      - rockape
        
        Winston says he will only go with National , do you believe that? Redbaters point was the voters should decide on that basis it should be the two biggest parties and a Nat/ Labour alliance as they get the most votes.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:12pm
  - miltonF
    
    “Get boosted” Bishop is a massive liability for the National party.
    
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    October 9, 2023 3:50pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Well reasoned. Unless forcing a second election is all part of plan B. That way Labour gets to stay at the levers of power a little longer., with the hope that either ACT or NZF will run out of election funds, and people come to dislike NZF intensely.
  
  National hates NZF as much as Hipkins. Hipkins hates NZF because NZF stopped Labour, blocking their grand socialist plans at every turn. Hipkins, like Ardern has done nothing positive and everything negative. Winston was a good handbrake.
  
  Hipkins has stated on more than one occasion that Winston kept stopping Labour from passing laws and getting stuff done. Since the only thing labour did was sell out NZ and spend, spend, spend, spend on their communist / fascist goals, that in itself should be a testimony as to how much Winston was a handbrake on tyranny.
  
  Plan C is for Luxon to be “left no choice” other than to form a grand coalition with Labour, sold to the public as the only solution as “a second election is untenable and costly.”
  
  Which is probably why Hipkins is still deliberately keeping his head down, allowing Plan B / Plan C to play out.
  
  Luxon is a company man. (WEF). Both he and Hipkins are loyal to the same man – Klaus.
  
  Hipkins / Ardern / Labour plays the socialist union / gang liking underdog, and Luxon the corporate man.
  
  A “coalition of apparent opposites” has been used before, as we should remember from history.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:45am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Good heavens – you really do talk some utter crap.
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:25am
    - JackRabbit
      
      In January 2020 (or perhaps Dec 2019) I posted on here that Labour (who were sinking in the polls) intended to run a very dirty 2020 election. Which they did.
      
      And I got downticked to hell. Don, everyone can be wise in hindsight. Not many can be wise with foresight.
      
      I actually hope I am wrong with what I posted above. Just as I hoped I was wrong in 2020.
      
      I actually hope that National sinks a couple of points, Labour sinks a couple of points, ACT drops a point of two, and NZF romps in with 10%.
      
      Both Seymour and Luxon have got too arrogant. Denying excess deaths, vaccine deaths, and vaccine injuries is not cool, not human, and lacks empathy.
      
      And those that are OK with that, are still secretly addicted to Ardern’s Koolaid of “safe and effective”. For Many Koolaid drinkers the deaths and injuries are conspiracy theories until it happens close to home, and then the penny drops.
      
      NZF is the only one calling a spade a spade and who will get over 10%.
      
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      October 9, 2023 2:06pm
      - Mark Hanley
        
        Winston. Is that you?
        
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        October 9, 2023 3:26pm
    - miltonF
      
      Has Labour ruled out working with National? Has National ruled out working with Labour?
      
      When these two parties share the most in common, why would it be inconceivable they would join in coalition? Did you forget the last few years where they’ve been in lockstep on many issues? Everything Covid being the prime example.
      
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      October 9, 2023 3:54pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Winston ain’t our friend.
    #1 Ron Marks said the Gun laws would do nothing to stop crime , Winston SIGNED the tyrannical gun laws we now have . #2 Winston said people should not be able to get government benefits unless JABBED , then has the audacity to appear at the government protest against the government mandates , which side of his mouth is he speaking from ? #3 During his campaign stated the government needed to curb immigration, what did Winston do after only 2 weeks notification for consideration of unlimited UN resettlement into NZ ,, as the Acting Deputy Prime Minister he signed the UN Global Compact to allow the UN to dump people from anti-western countries into NZ and WE HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM , again which side of his mouth is he talking ?
    
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    October 9, 2023 2:24pm
    - Mark Hanley
      
      Add to that winston’s review and sign-off of he puapua
      
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      October 9, 2023 3:28pm
- thirteenstars
  
  It’s pretty bloody disrespectful to the democratic process. Best of my knowledge Luxon is in favour of MMP yet seems to not quite like the idea that folks might vote for other parties who he will then have to deal with.
  
  It’s the old National arrogance which they can never quite keep under control. They couldn’t work with Peters in 2017 and they’re playing silly buggers by suggesting they won’t be able to work with him now, handing Labour fresh ammo for their “coalition of chaos” attack strategy.
  
  Amateur hour from Luxon & Co. Mind you, a second election might clarify a few minds as to what’s at stake.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:48am
  - Damocles11
    
    So it’s ok for Chippy to talk of a Coalition of Chaos but apparently Luxon appealing for people to vote for National to avoid protracted negotiations is ‘disrespectful to democracy’. Turn it up.
    Parties will fight for every fight, it’s the last week of the election. Personally I hate those weeks where Winston extorts the other parties and keeps the country in limbo: it feels like a Covid lockdown.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:39am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Chippy is only talking Coalition of Chaos because he wants to stop that Coalition at all costs.
      
      IF NZF gets in there is a real chance at a covid/vaccine inquiry, which is conducted properly and independently, will find several members of the current government facing criminal charges.
      
      That is Chippies real fear.
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:02am
      - Guy Preston
        
        IF NZF gets in there is a real chance at a covid/vaccine inquiry, which is conducted properly and independently, will find several members of the current government facing criminal charges.
        
        Yeah, nah. Political prosecutions won’t be a thing here until the next time Labour convinces the electorate they are competent… at the earliest.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:26pm
      - Colville
        
        JR.
        You are dreaming if you think Winston is going to do anything towards an inquiry…he was the deputy PM FFS… is he going to accuse himself?
        
        Like everything that comes from his mouth…lies.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:36pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Guy Preston
        Political prosecutions won’t be a thing here…
        
        I said criminal charges, not political prosecutions.
        
        Perhaps you should download and read the Crimes Act.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:12pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Colville
        
        Vaccinations did not start until Feb 2021, and mandates came later that year. Peters left government in 2020.
        
        Why are your time lines confused?
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:14pm
      - Guy Preston
        
        Any prosecution of a politician becomes a political prosecution, particularly when it is driven by the political successor or opponents.
        
        Sorry, I gave you too much credit to understand something obvious.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:51pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Guy Preston
        
        We do not have political prosecution in this country.
        
        Sorry, I gave you too much credit to understand something obvious.
        
        It is not obvious because it does not exist.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:14pm
- rockape
  
  I think ACT, NZ First and National competing for the far right would be a socialists dream.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:50am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I think forcing a second election would be Labour’s dream.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:52am
    - rockape
      
      It can only be the PMs decision and that PM is one Hipkins. The leader of the opposition can’t call a second election.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:14pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Hence Labour’s dream.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:58pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Guess what? Labour can’t afford this campaign, so what makes you think Labour, greens, Maori and NZF can afford a second election campaign?
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:16pm
  - RoboRob
    
    NZF wouldn’t be competing for the right, let alone far right.
    
    He will go with Labour or drage National left.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:54am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Clearly you haven’t listened to Winston’s interviews.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:25am
      - Damocles11
        
        I couldn’t give a toss for what Winston has been saying. He is the sob that put Labour in power. Never forgive, never forget.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:41am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Damocles11
        
        So what is your stance on Ardern and Hipkins over the vaccine deaths and injuries?
        
        And what is you stance on both National’s and Act’s denial of same?
        
        Who you gonna vote for then? The weed party?
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:53am
      - KiwiSapper
        
        Many of us have listened to “Winston’s interviews” in the past and subsequently noted how he failed to do what he said he would, so we no longer listen .
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:55am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @KiwiSapper
        
        If you continue to base your viewpoint on things that happened in 2017 and /or the mainstream media, you should stop drinking the Koolaid.
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:57am
      - hullkiwi
        
        I’ve witnessed Winston inside the National Party, in NZF, his antics after the 1996 election, his rubbish in 2017, his carry on while in govt (remember it was him on TV who openly accused National of hacking the Treasury website for budget documents, that turned out to be openly available).
        
        So, why should I or any other NZ voter trust the old Charleton?
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:21pm
      - Guy Preston
        
        JackRabbit
        @KiwiSapper
        
        If you continue to base your viewpoint on things that happened in 2017 and /or the mainstream media, you should stop drinking the Koolaid.
        
        bruh, If you think Winston is going to suddenly reverse his demonstrated behaviour since MMP became a thing, you’re the one who needs to put down the Koolaid.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:29pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Guy Preston
        
        The landscape has changed significantly in 6 years.
        
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        October 9, 2023 1:00pm
      - Terry Dalee
        
        Leopard….. Spots ……
        
        Winnie…. First..
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:40pm
- Damocles11
  
  Chippy himself could have written that. Maybe he did.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:22am
- RRM
  
  The Redbaiter:
  
  National need to learn from their mistakes (finally) and next time give their core supporters a reason to vote for them. Instead of pushing those supporters to reluctantly vote ACT or NZ First.
  
  Those voters who want to vote National, but will not do so as long as they perceive the party to be infiltrated, led and controlled by the corporate green left.
  
  If you’re trying to apologize for voting Winston in 2017 to “teach National a lesson” and, therefore, being part of the reason we got the Ardern Labour government, just come out and say it.
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:44pm
- BeaB
  
  Your choice is easy. Vote Labour and three more years of waste, incompetence and failure.
  
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  October 9, 2023 1:38pm
- Right of way is Way of Right
  
  So, you would prefer a party that kowtows to a minority with often distasteful or extremest views rather than a party that has a set of established values and remains aligned with them?
  
  OK, but be warned, down that road lies madness.
  
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  October 9, 2023 2:25pm
- mawm
  
  Well said Redbaiter. And like a knee jerk the defenders of a wet, woke National party insult the messenger rather than take on board why an opposition party to the worst government ever cannot get its head above water.
  
  What a pity Seymour has been behaving like a prick and Winston is untrustworthy.
  
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  October 9, 2023 4:26pm
Simon

Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people
Livin’ for today

Imagine by Motley Crue. So peaceful and dreamy. Pray for peace between NZF & National.
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October 9, 2023 8:02am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Imagine is by John Lennon.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:04am
  - sHr0oMaN
    
    I prefer the Motley Crue version 😉
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:12am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Sacrilege!
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:38am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Still a crap song tho, best played immediately before the hippies get crushed….
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Stuff NZF. Peters has had many chances, he does not get any more.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:26am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Since both Luxon and Seymour have sold out to the global agenda, NZF is the only thing standing between NZ and tyranny.
    
    And many of the families of 10,000 excess or co-incidental deaths since Feb 2021, and the 150,000+ injuries do no agree with you.
    
    Luxon is batting for the same team as Hipkins. Team WEF.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:49am
    - Damocles11
      
      Jack Rabbit has disappeared down a rabbit hole by the looks of it. Winston is only interested in baubles btw.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:42am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Winston is only interested in baubles btw.
        
        Specifics please.
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:59am
      - Right of way is Way of Right
        
        Oh, let’s see….
        Minister of Foreign Affairs
        Minister of Racing
        Deputy Prime Minister (despite NZF only holding 9 seats in Parliament and 7.2% of the party vote.)
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:29pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Right of way is Way of Right
        
        So he had ministerial portfolios?
        
        And that makes him what exactly?
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:16pm
    - Rusty
      
      @JackRabbit
      
      You are so right.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:28pm
    - kowtow
      
      Peters gave us ‘tyranny” cos he hates the Nats , a personal vendetta .
      
      You can’t get much worse than that in a liberal democracy.
      
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      October 9, 2023 1:20pm
  - peterwn
    
    He had a good chance of being Prime Minister as National Party leader (followed by a knighthood and London) but he blew that one by being too impatient and impetuous.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:31am
    - kowloon
      
      too impatient and impetuous…….
      AND ARROGANT, still is!
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:03pm
- Grumpy Silver Haired Female
  
  Who the hell is/are Motley Crue (they can’t even spell) John Lennon penned those lyrics.
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:47am
Scott

The conflict between Israel and the Arabs goes back to the founder Abraham and his son Ishmael conceived with his maid servant Hagar and his second son Isaac conceived with his wife Sarai (Genesis 16:3).

In modern times the sons of Isaac have tried unsuccessfully to appease the sons of Ishmael. The state of Israel took down all its settlements and completely withdrew from Gaza in a bid for peace. But there is no peace. Gaza is completely controlled by Hamas which is dedicated to the destruction of Israel.

“In the summer of 2013, Sheikh Hammam Saeed, the leader of the Jordanian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, thundered that eradicating all Jewish presence from the Holy Land was a matter of Islamic law. He termed the idea of a negotiated settlement “heresy, according to Islamic law, because Allah says that Palestine belongs to the Islamic nation, while they say that Palestine belongs to the Jews. Anyone who says that Palestine belongs to the Jews has no place in the religion of Allah, and no room in this creed. This is an issue of heresy and belief.”
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/robert-spencer/2023/10/07/why-there-is-never-peace-between-israel-and-the-palestinians-n1733146

Why have these attacks happened now? Essentially Hamas is backed by Iran. Iran just received $6B from the USA and Iran has given the green light to Hamas.

The weakness of the USA and its slumbering president has been a disaster for the world. The debacle in Afghanistan, China threatening Taiwan, Russia invading the Ukraine and Hamas invading Israel are a result of a weak USA president who no one respects or fears.

At least America’s enemies feared Trump. No one fears Biden.
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October 9, 2023 8:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I made the $6B mistake yesterday. It is Iran’s money being held in frozen accounts in South Korea.
  There is also a prisoner exchange going on.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:29am
- Ghost
  
  The $6 billion of their own money remains unspent.
  
  Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday the $6 billion in Iranian funds expected to be unfrozen in the U.S. prisoner swap with Iran have remained unspent, pushing back against suggestions that the Biden administration’s deal may have contributed to Hamas’s recent attacks on Israel.
  “The facts are these — no U.S. taxpayer dollars were involved,” Blinken said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “These were Iranian resources that Iran had accumulated from the sale of its oil that were stuck in a bank in South Korea. They have had from day one, under our law, under our sanctions, the right to use these monies for humanitarian purposes.”
  “From one account to another in another country to facilitate that use,” Blinken continued. “As of now, not a single dollar has been spent from that account.”
  
  Article
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:36am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Prep by Hamas for this attack will have been going on for months. Neither the $6B funds unfreezing nor the recent disclosure of Israel-Saudi relationship warming are causus belli in themselves.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:40am
  - Matt Long
    
    https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:50am
- Scott
  
  BREAKING: Wall Street Journal confirms that Iran plotted, organized, and approved the attack on Israel with Hamas.
  
  The plots started in August, the same month when Biden’s $6 billion ransom payment was announced.
  
  https://twitter.com/GLNoronha/status/1711128665243722088?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1711128665243722088%7Ctwgr%5Ed40c21c96533013a83c6a23d74e84b5a90c02af6%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.powerlineblog.com%2Farchives%2F2023%2F10%2Fwsj-this-is-irans-war.php
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:09am
- Matt Long
  
  For me, amongst the most disturbing things about Hamas attacks with the advent of ubiquitous social media is seeing the beautiful people who have become victims. Families held captive and then a sister murdered, the evil use of a murdered grandmother’s phone to mock the families of the victims.
  https://x.com/JulietMosesNZ/status/1711137082578743399?s=20
  https://x.com/AvivaKlompas/status/1710986563285311656?s=20
  https://x.com/RitaPanahi/status/1710808887560171592?s=20
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:12am
  - Matt Long
    
    Then seeing the New Zealand leftists like John Hart, Minto, David Cormack callously ignoring the victims of Hamas, the woman, raped and murdered, justifying these actions because Israel has blockaded Gaza to slow down the terror attacks.
    Rallies in support of the evil!!!
    https://x.com/mysteriouskat/status/1710918336463221048?s=20
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:18am
    - Matt Long
      
      And here’s a picture of the brave allies of Hamas on Twitter.
      https://x.com/ElliotIkilei/status/1710941903666229256?s=20
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:22am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        There are no fewer than SIX Minister in that photo; Marama Davidson, Willie Jackson, Jan Tinetti, Jo Luxton, Duncan Webb and Prianka Radakrishnan. Fortunately, many of them will be looking for new troughs to sup from next week.
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:42am
    - Ra Henare
      
      Maybe you missed the Palestinians killed by the Israelies.
      
      At least 232 Palestinians and 300 Israelis are reportedly dead after a surprise Hamas assault on Saturday sparked Israeli air strikes on Gaza.
      
      Dead civilains from either side is an atrocity.
      But it seems teh Israelie/US propoganda machine is better at stirring up kiwis than the other side of the conflict.
      
      Perspective
      
      IN General way more Palestinian Civilians are killed verses Israelis.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada
      
      Ie 719 Israeli Civilians dead verse 2204 Palestinians.
      
      Its a political problem paid for in the blood of innocents.
      
      The same as the Ukrainian problem
      Wars are the results of bad politics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      
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      October 9, 2023 3:49pm
      - Scott
        
        Mr Henare – if Hamas had not started the war there would be no casualties at all.
        
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        October 9, 2023 5:21pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Hamas is emboldened by their western enablers unfortunately, people who have lost their humanity and are in no way moved by the TARGETING of innocents for rape, murder and torture.
        
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        October 9, 2023 6:32pm
- Rusty
  
  @Scott
  
  In light of the Maori co-governance issue wouldn’t it be interesting if this question was asked to the leaders of all our major parties.
  
  Who are the indigenous people of Israel?
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:35pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Still no word from Marama condemning Hamas
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October 9, 2023 8:05am
- RRM
  
  Oops – fat fingers, hit “report” by accident.
  
  Marama Davidson hates Israel and loves Hamas. She will have been loving the early reports of deaths and abductions yesterday. Not so much as the Israeli response gets into gear.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:17am
  - Jethrod
    
    Marama would barely know where the Hamas live. Her focus, if you can call it that, is on a developing social disaster in New Zealand.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:37am
    - Matt Long
      
      Scott Adams
      Israel is a preview of America (New Zealand) in the sense that one group has been “educated” to think the other group has their stuff and needs to give it back.
      
      That can only go in one direction.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:53am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Marama Davidson hates Israel and loves Hamas.
    
    Oh but it’s not just the blind hatred/love of bigotry.
    
    No, no, no. Marama’s attitudes are based on anti-colonialist theory. The Israelis are colonialists, just like the Afrikaners and the Europeans anywhere outside Europe, especially in the so-called Anglosphere of America, Australia, and …
    
    … the place containing Pakehas. 🙂
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:54am
    - thirteenstars
      
      That’s it. The Jews are colonisers. Yip, yip. Strange how the supposed colonisers were kicked out a couple of thousand years ago by other colonisers and have slowly made their way back over the centuries.
      
      Was it the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, Alexander, the Muslims, the Ottomans, who were the colonisers?
      
      Doesn’t matter. Just kill all the Jews and create another dirt-poor failed theocracy where once briefly flowered a wealthy liberal democracy.
      
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      October 9, 2023 1:06pm
- nathie
  
  Why on earth are the Greens supporting a violent, misogynist, highly conservative and anti-LGBTQI+ movement?
  
  The Greens really need to think for themselves on this, instead of going along with international “solidarity” group-think.
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:00am
  - Damocles11
    
    They are just supporting whichever proxy is causing chaos and fragmenting the West.
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:12am
  - sungsamning
    
    Because they’re Marxists, and hate Western Civilization too.
    
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    October 9, 2023 2:34pm
- sungsamning
  
  There won’t be.
  
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  October 9, 2023 2:32pm
Colville

So in an interesting twist Luxon says be prepared for another election if National cant do a constructive and fair deal with WinstonFirst.

Ok fair enough..

But now does a Labour voter think to them selves…ok my team is going to get a beating this time…I will vote for Winston to stick it to that prick Luxon …and maybe we get another chance in the new year??

2% off Labour and onto NZF would make a big difference to the legitimacy of NZFs demands post election.

Also Winston would come close to being LOTO if it was 5% !! 🙂
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October 9, 2023 8:06am
- cmm
  
  It was an extremely stupid thing for Luxon to say.
  
  As much as National might struggle to cobble together a coalition, Labour would be struggling even more.
  
  But no – all he did way give Hipkins a talking point where he can crow about the fragility of National (and ignore the fact he’s going down the gurgler regardless).
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:19am
  - peterwn
    
    Chris Luxon is pointing out reality.
    If National+ACT win 59, 60, or 61 seats, there is a very real chance of another election being needed if Winston plays rough either in coalition talks or later on.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:40am
    - cmm
      
      Sure it is reality, but why point it out if it doesn’t help your cause?
      
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      October 9, 2023 9:51am
      - Colville
        
        I think it does help his (Luxons) cause and he will have had advice on that or he wouldnt have said it. He aint dumb.
        
        I believe its a tactic to suck voters away from Labour and at the same time fire a shot across the bows of both ACT and NZF.
        
        First job is to cripple Labour.
        Second job is to deal with the mess and he obviously rates his chances of dealing with an old bumbling forgetful Winston.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:40am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Because it sends a message to Peters that National will not roll over during coalition negotiations as Labour did in 2017.
        
        A NZF insider told me a bit about the 2017 negotiations. NZF originally wanted around $500 million for the Provincial Growth Fund. They managed to talk Labour up to around $1 billion, and shortly after one of the Labour people asked Peters “You mean $1 billion a year, right?”
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:48am
cmm

Stop pissing around with the frilly bits around the edge.

Subsidising fog canon is really broken. Why should the taxpayer, yet again, be picking up the tab for ineffective crime control?

The “social contract” between the public and the police has been broken. Police are no longer serving their function in society.

It is time to allow people to defend themselves properly. While I personally think people should be allowed firearms for self defence, most of NZ probably isn’t ready for that. But how about pepper spray as a start?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/133021097/staffing-numbers-prevent-service-stations-from-installing-fog-cannons
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October 9, 2023 8:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  “The “social contract” between the public and the police has been broken”
  
  This is the nub of the issue. If police are unable to keep the law-abiding public safe from violent offenders – the very essence of that social contract – then they must be explicitly permitted to defend themselves without fear of criminalisation.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:13am
  - Keith White
    
    A couple of places where I’ve worked in the past, where expatriate wives and mothers were home alone or with the children during the day, and things were getting spicy, and of course as in such countries, the government had the monopoly on firearms – a couple of the more robust and experienced senior memsahibs taught the others to always have some stock / thick soup simmering on the stove. Should the ungodly break in, a pot full of that ought to deflate their enthusiasm – especially due to the latent heat in the veggies and stickability of the solution.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:22am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Rolling pins and skillets.
      
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      October 9, 2023 9:51am
      - Colville
        
        Prison napalm.
        Hot water and sugar.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:41am
  - kowtow
    
    Not a philosopher but ;
    
    the social contract is not between the people and the police.
    
    it’s a notion that we the people give up a degree , I suppose willingly of certain of our freedoms and rights ; ie to protect ourselves etc with the understanding that the state , in order to have an orderly , stable , legal state of affairs will step to protect us , will provide the environment where crime does not flourish and does the things that a private community would once have done for itself .
    
    Crime and punishment comes readily to mind . But the social contract in terms of crime is about parliament , the courts , the prison service etc .
    
    It is the state itself that has torn the contract asunder by making up crap about why people are in prison or commit crime and have set these people free or fails to hold them to account , while also removing our right to meaningful self defence.
    
    Borders are another issue , as is social welfare .
    
    Once upon a time there was a tacit agreement we worked , if able , to maintain ourselves . Now the state thinks that’s not necessary , for certain folk anyway ,and that the “community” has a duty to provide literally for bludgers .
    
    The social contract is well and truly broken .
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:38am
    - cmm
      
      Yes, you are partially correct.
      
      The “social contract” is with the whole sausage machine from the cops through the courts and all the way to corrections.
      
      It is also with the politicians who should be fighting the gangs and not giving them hand outs.
      
      But when it comes to the pointy-end of defending people then that is all police. When you phone 111, you don’t expect a judge or a corrections warden to show up.
      
      The bottom line is that the police lack the ability (and maybe the enthusiasm) to defend people. The actual reason does not matter. What matters is that they are not performing this role adequately.
      
      Therefore the restrictions on us defending ourselves should be null and void.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:20am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Rubber bullets, trouble is the other guys have real bullets that they forgot to hand in with their gun.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:15am
  - softail 1450
    
    Steve Otto, Never fear I’m certain the bad people will hand in their guns when labour bring out their gun registration policies.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:43am
- Maggie Pie
  
  ‘Easy-Off’ Heavy Duty is just as effective.
  (Just enlarge the hole in the little spray button a tad with a needle.)
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:16am
  - cmm
    
    If you ever use it you will need to explain why you are carrying around oven cleaner in your handbag.
    
    In my opinion, people should be allowed to carry whatever they like in their bags for self defence.
    
    Of course if you pull a weapon, of any kind, on a person for non-defence reasons that should be prosecuted. Harshly.
    
    Time to grow up NZ. Time to accept reality.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:24am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Enlarging the hole in the nozzle would reduce the velocity of the discharge. It would just dribble out on to the ground.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:34am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Speak for yourself 😀
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:37am
      - hmmokrightitis
        
        This.
        
        Thanks Maggie, that was the best lol Ive had in ages.
        
        And The Gorgeous Blond concurs, and nods with a wink in your general direction 😀
        
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        October 9, 2023 8:42am
      - mogg
        
        Please, no comments of a personal nature.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:15am
- Simon
  
  lol – “It is time to allow people to defend themselves properly.”
  
  Your punishment for having a knife when they searched you would be very different from the thief’s. For him to have a knife was mere misbehaviour, tradition, he didn’t know any better. But for you to have one was “terrorism.”
  
  The Gulag Archipelago – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:24am
- cmm
  
  Ah, I see the fog canon salesman has turned up… Or maybe a “crims are misunderstood nice people” dreamer.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:30am
- G152
  
  Dairy staff should be behind bulletproof screens when the shop is open with remote locks on the entries and a direct link to the local police
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:33am
  - imalwaysright
    
    G,
    Dairy owners shouldn’t need bullet proof screens, locks, or the police.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:36am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Bars. Drop down bar door at the front and drop down bar door behind the counter.
    Activate and it locks the crims in, ready for the police. Owners/workers go out the back.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:38am
    - peterwn
      
      Tower of London has a 16 ton drop down steel cage to protect the Crown Jewels. A new Governor pressed the ’emergency’ button to see what would happen and the cage dropped (with visitors present) and lots of police turned up.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:57am
    - Flossie
      
      What if an innocent customer also gets trapped between the bars? Hostage opportunity?
      
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      October 9, 2023 1:11pm
  - Sacha
    
    @ G152 . . . . . and a screaming siren too.
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:10am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Hmmm. Social contract. If we pop back to first principles, then the issue is in fact core functions of Government. And if Government are not funding the police and corrections enough to ensure the safety of its citizens, then non-core functions need to lose their funding.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:43am
  - cmm
    
    Why do people always think it comes down to funding?
    
    All the money in the world fixes nothing if the policies are broken.
    
    More money spent on cops won’t work if the cops are not going to spend it wisely.
    
    Under the current priorities, give the cops more $ and they will spend it on more rainbow coloured EVs.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:23am
- Paul Marsden
  
  You can do whatever you want to protect yourself just so long as you are prepared to pay the consequences. My view is that it is better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:08am
- rockape
  
  Never bring a pepper spray to a gunfight.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:51am
Vinicius

Am I the only one who finds Chris Bishop in the role of National Party Campaign Manager to be underwhelming?

Any thoughts on this?
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October 9, 2023 8:10am
- RRM
  
  He won lefty Hutt South off Mallard. I’d say he has a reasonably good handle on where normal people are.
  
  Although there are those who say National should go hard right, to take votes off the left…
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:22am
  - Vinicius
    
    He might be a decent MP and could be a good Minister in a new government but a good campaign manager he isn’t.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:45am
  - Matt Long
    
    Not hard right, just a tensy bit toward the centre from centre left would be great.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:58am
- cmm
  
  It’s the most senior thing they can ever do with Chris Bishop.
  
  He is forever hamstrung by his shilling for the tobacco industry. He can never be the “face” of National.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:26am
kevn

cmm… Maggie has often mention aerosol oven cleaner.
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October 9, 2023 8:13am
- Maggie Pie
  
  You’re onto it kev! 😀
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Oven cleaner is designed to kind of dribble out on to the oven. You would need to transfer the contents of the can to a spray vessel that could deliver it to a bad guy at least 2 metres away. Also this being New Zealand, if you used it your would be charged.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:36am
    - cmm
      
      I am not a lawyer, but I’ve been through this with cops etc…
      It is OK to use a weapon for self defence – even a firearm. What is illegal is possessing any weapon, or potential weapon, for the purpose of being used as a weapon (eg. for self defence).
      Carrying around oven cleaner (especially if modified in a way which makes it more effective weapon) or a hammer or whatever for the purpose of self defence is illegal.
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:43am
      - peterwn
        
        In the days when people wore hats outside, there would be nothing wrong with a woman securing her hat with a 12 inch hatpin (which had a sharp point).
        
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        October 9, 2023 8:58am
      - kiwikidsnz
        
        Yes hatpins, my grandmothers mentioned those.
        
        Many years ago in the British Museum I saw a collection of old Celtic skirt/kilt pins. Almost without exception they were very handy steel 4-6″ dirks (complete with blood gutters & the clasps acted as hand guards).
        
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        October 9, 2023 9:11am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Steering wheel lock under my driver seat. Has nice hooks in the right places.
        
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        October 9, 2023 9:45am
      - Random T Person
        
        Is the moering tool in my car illegal? 😉
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:16am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      I’m ocd about my clean oven and wouldn’t waste it on bad guys!! Totally left field, best way to clean oven: spray oven cleaner onto surfaces then cover with gladwrap to keep product moist (2 hours) then wipe off. Put an old towel in the bottom of a bath and full with the hottest soapy water – place oven racks on towel and soak overnight … the racks come out as shiny as with just a gentle wipe with damp hand towel … and ta-da!!! Beautiful oven 👍
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:18am
      - Jethrod
        
        Kiwiblog…..the place to learn what to do with No 8 wire! Well done
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:58am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Beautiful oven
        
        But what about the greasy scum ring around the bath?
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:24pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Don’t let greasy scum into your bath in the first place?
        
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        October 9, 2023 6:39pm
- cmm
  
  There are many things which are legal to own which can be turned into weapons when needed: screwdrivers, kitchen knives, oven cleaner, brake cleaner, hammers,… even shotguns.
  But possessing any of these for the purpose of self defence is illegal. That needs to change.
  
  While oven cleaner would likely work at a pinch, I wonder what its range is. Out to at least 5 metres would be desirable.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:18am
  - Keith White
    
    As a couple of my North American colleagues have commented in the past — “I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6”. As long as ‘we’ could get a jury trial in NZ… And of course, as long as we could write our own cultural reports.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:23am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    If you’ve got a shotty my partner recommends getting 12g bean-bags.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:24am
    - cmm
      
      If you are shooting for self defence then what are beanbags going to help?
      Beanbags are “less than lethal” rounds like rubber bullets and are intended for crowd control etc. They are not intended for self defence.
      
      If you discharge a shotgun at a person for the purpose of self defence then why not use bird shot or buckshot? My personal choice would be BB – half way between.
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:28am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Now you’re being silly. Why would you want to put holes in the dado moldings?
        
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        October 9, 2023 8:35am
      - cmm
        
        Don’t shoot at the dado moldings. Shoot at the crim’s guts.
        In contrast to what most people believe, the spread of a shotgun isn’t that wide.
        
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        October 9, 2023 9:00am
    - softail 1450
      
      MP, $3.00 worth of 20cent pieces will do the job and you’d be making a donation to the funeral expenses at the same time.
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:48am
  - Rusty
    
    cmm
    It could be illegal to use foul language as a weapon of defence.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:27am
  - Kiwiguy
    
    One of the best self-defence items is a handsaw. You have a nice strong handle to hang on to, and if the crim tries to grab it he gets his hands slashed to bits.
    
    Keep a used one on hand with some sawdust on it, along with a hammer and nails etc, and you can claim that you’ve been doing some DIY.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:54am
    - Tarquin North
      
      A Samurai sword works well and the worst thing that can happen to you is home D.
      
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      October 9, 2023 9:29am
      - Sacha
        
        I’ve got a Kukri – a souvenir from many decades ago, which is kept polished and oiled and hangs in its sheath inside the back door.
        It has a nick in the steel that causes blood to be drawn before killing the opponent, thus preserving the honour of the defender. And a wee sharpening blade – just in case.
        I know they are lethal in educated hands, but I reckon I could do some damage if necessary, and probably preserve my honour in doing so. 🙂
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:24am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pipe shotgun. 20mm NB and 25mm light wall pipes and a cap with a drill shank for a firing pin. 12G fits the 20mm pipe just fine.
    Pipes laying side by side nobody knows what the hell they are.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9mr-o8QIlo
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:54am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “I wonder what its range is”
    
    Oven cleaner, range.
    
    What a hoot.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:20am
  - mawm
    
    So many here advertising their self defence weapon. This is not a good idea if you ever have to use it and the police decide to search your blogging history afterwards. As cmm points out possessing these items for self defence is illegal.
    
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    October 9, 2023 4:54pm
oldpark

No show without punch .There is a rumour that the woman from Morrinsville who cut and run to big note in USA is coming back to NZ to help enhance the division between NZs.
Lets start with Three Waters plus Co-Government, shutting down Oil and Gas Industries, locking NZs in their home on the Covid Caper .Telling them not to even talk to Neighbours .Etc!Etc!
Yes the woman from Morrinsville hand in hand with the wee man from Upper Hutt have a lot to answer for. How they have divided NZ.
To think that she has the gall to turn up at the most important General Election to once more hold hands with the wee man from Upper Hutt to inflame the separation, is an abomination. As well as an insult to hard working NZs Taxpayers who had the trust they once put in her betrayed .
“Two Ticks Blue”.
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October 9, 2023 8:16am
Surely Knott

No Name. No description. No images from the CCTV. As usual NZ citizens kept in the dark by reporting from the NZ Media as another poor shop owner is beaten to within an inch of his life.

And worse the article even goes so far as to blame the victim. They quote the neighbouring shop owner as saying, ““I didn’t see, but I think he tried to stop them, grab some stuff back. I think this was the problem.”

No. That is not the problem. The problem is violent criminal repeat offenders in our community. You should absolutely be able to take your own belongings back without being beaten so badly that passer-bys report you as dead.

I hope he has a full recovery. Worrying time for retailers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/porirua-store-owner-in-critical-condition-after-attack-on-friday-afternoon/3SRDMUTG65EXRPNASCFCZOEGLU/
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October 9, 2023 8:16am
Mrs_Right

For anyone interested in comparing all the polls to the actual election result in 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2020_New_Zealand_general_election
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October 9, 2023 8:25am
- rjay
  
  So all polls underestimated Labour and over estimated National. Act pretty much spot on.
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:29am
- Mrs_Right
  
  Actually if you look at previous election polls, they seem to underestimate the the winning party and overestimate the runner up.
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:25pm
artemisia

A phrase used by a commenter on the wireless this morning – Hamas is Iran’s proxy.

If that comes with funding plus embracing death as martyrs it becomes a holy war with serious teeth.
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October 9, 2023 8:27am
- NothingLeft
  
  Should Israel deport all the supporters of Hamas to Iran then? Long term the situation with rapid population increase in Gaza (already near Singapore pop density and increasing 30-40% in next decade) means there will inevitably be a massive death-toll via violence, famine or disease. The population need to be moved somewhere with more lebensraum, and it’s clearly not going to be Israel.
  
  It’s a problem throughout Arabia with 10-15x population increase since WW2 making incredible competition for resources and conflict inevitable.
  
  Arabs in general do not like Palestinians, for example at the end of the first gulf war Kuwait kicked all the Palestinians, shooting those that resisted.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:58am
  - Ehlana
    
    And here I thought only the Israelis kicked Palestinians out of places. Or is that somehow different?
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:16pm
    - Rusty
      
      @Ehlana
      
      Israel’s past history dealing with the Palestinians hasn’t always been humanitarian.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:42pm
kevn

This is a conversation we wouldn’t have dreamed about 3 years ago…
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October 9, 2023 8:33am
- Terry Dalee
  
  Proudly bought to you by the NZ Labour Party, Jacinda Ardern and Commissioner “Cuddles” Costner…..
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:40am
Benedict Yu

Interesting article in this medical news journal. It reports on a survey of Americans who are refusing to get COVID vaccine boosters. About 80 percent of Americans will not get the boosters. Notably that is about the same as the proportion in New Zealand.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20231005/Why-are-most-Americans-skipping-the-COVID-19-booster.aspx

The findings are unsurprising. It is a combination of concern over side effects and the vaccine not working very well.

This quote from the article hits the nail on the head. It is worth reading carefully.

“Unfortunately, unlike some vaccines which provide life-long protection against the associated disease (e.g., measles and hepatitis B), research has found that memory T and B cells associated with antibody production against COVID-19 rapidly deteriorate, resulting in loss of vaccination efficacy in as short as 120 days following initial vaccination.”

So the latest data shows that any protection offered by the vaccine wears off after 120 days. 🤡😳. So that means booster after booster after booster, at least twice yearly.

The authors argue that the medical profession needs to try harder to educate people.

“Based on these results, efforts to reach out to the media and disseminate information would likely have the greatest impact on future vaccination drives, both for COVID-19 and disease outbreaks.“

Well good luck with that. 😂

The low uptake of the vaccines is now affecting Pfizer’s bottom line.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/covid-revenues-disappoint-pfizer-looks-prune-costs

This whole vaccine house of cards is going to collapse. For 60 years, the public have come to understand the definition of “vaccines”. The overwhelming majority of parents saw the benefits for their children. Parents in the 1960s all knew friends and family who had been affected by polio, diphtheria, and even measles. There weren’t many parents who were saying “No my child can’t have that polio vaccine.”

Fast forward to 2023 and the COVID “vaccine“ has undermined the trust developed over three generations. It will take at least a decade to repair, maybe much longer.
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October 9, 2023 8:38am
- cmm
  
  Even if the vax was completely benign, who would want to be injected with something that doesn’t work and makes you feel sick for a day or two?
  
  If someone offered to inject me with saline, I wouldn’t line up for it. I doubt many would.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:46am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The data on its effectiveness is so clear yet no politician who supported the vaccine passes in 2021 will apologise.
    
    It would make way, way, more sense to restrict the movements of kids without the measles vaccine.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:53am
- David Garrett
  
  Bene: Your penultimate paragraph is spot on. I would go further and say only nuts – my neighbour truly believes the MMR vaccine can cause autism – or really stupid people were resistant to “traditional” vaccines including the major ones you list. Polio and diptheria were eliminated in NZ through vaccination.
  
  The Covid “vaccines” are in an entirely different category, and even if they did provide lasting protection – which clearly they don’t – there is more than enough evidence of serious side effects for people to be extremely wary of them.
  
  Mrs Garrett’s boy certainly won’t be having any more; fortunately where I currently am there are ways around such “compulsory” measures.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:52am
  - krazykiwi
    
    “I would go further and say only nuts – my neighbour truly believes the MMR vaccine can cause autism”
    
    Yeah, I once thought this too. Sadly, on digging into the outright Covid fraud that has been visited on us by Pfizer and the likes, I’ve discovered that many of same process have been used to promote the plethora of vaccinations on the immunisation schedule. There is some evidence of a causative relationship between MMR vaccines and autism. More honest work on this is needed, and at the moment that’s not happening.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:21am
    - David Garrett
      
      Oh dear…there is ZERO credible evidence that the MMR vaccine causes autism; that theory has been well and truly debunked.
      
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      October 9, 2023 9:38am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Sorry, DG. You are wrong, but the vaccine industrial complex – including the FDA and the CDC – has been very, very effective at convincing you that you are right.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:24am
      - wsk12345
        
        If you don’t allow research or require trials there will be no evidence will there. Correlation is not causation but it does strongly suggest this should be researched.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:29am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        https://www.altogetherautism.org.nz/altogether-autism-says-no-links-vaccinations-autism/
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:45am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Look at this one
        
        https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/two-verifiable-anecdotes-are-the?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
        
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        October 9, 2023 7:48pm
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Show us this evidence of a causative relationship between MMR vaccines and autism.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:20am
      - David Garrett
        
        Dudley: I believe it all came from ONE study by a formerly well regarded researcher who later lost credibility.
        
        Rather like the other formerly well respected researcher whose name escapes me for the moment (He won a Nobel prize IIRC) who became convinced huge doses of vitamin C cured colds and had all sorts of other beneficial effects.
        
        The trouble was no-one else could replicate his results, which is the standard proof of a theory, viz. that others can do exactly the same experiment and get the same results.
        
        Mr Autism’s theory was examined and repeated by many others, and none of them got his results.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:56am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        That was Double Nobel Prize winner – Linus Pauling with the Vit C theory.
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linus_Pauling
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:31pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        David – The true villain of the MMR vaccine lie was former Playboy Model Jenny McCarthy (and former member of the View). She pushed it out there to the general public and made a fortune off it.
        
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        October 9, 2023 1:01pm
      - mawm
        
        Dudley – can you show us any RCT’s done on MMR vaccines?
        
        One would hope that a properly done trial would answer the question. AFAIK none of the childhood vaccines have had any done.
        
        There have been studies showing a rise in autism in the US as the number of childhood vaccines administered have increased. Again correlation is not causation and one could probably show similar graphs for autism vs divorce, or autism and gay marriage. There are also numerous anecdotal reports of children developing autism following an MMR vaccine.
        
        One cannot categorically state that MMR vaccines do or do not cause autism without a proper RCT. After what has unfolded with the mRNA “vaccines” and Big Pharma profits and their funding of research centers it is unlikely that we will ever get one.
        
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        October 9, 2023 5:33pm
      - mawm
        
        David – I believe you are referring to the Andrew Wakefield paper. Recently there has been a revival of interest in his findings.
        
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        October 9, 2023 5:35pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “There is some evidence of a causative relationship between MMR vaccines and autism.”
      
      That is such crap.
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:34am
      - krazykiwi
        
        I beg to differ. This is a list of abstracts from 224 papers demonstrating the multiple associations between vaccines and autism. I have only read 5 of these papers** in full and would like to read some more. The area that interests me is the use of toxic ethylmercury in adjuvants and the likelihood of these crossing the blood-brain barrier.
        
        **Some of the papers require journal subscriptions.. which I don’t have.
        
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        October 9, 2023 1:19pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      There’s a huge causative relationship between having parents on the autism spectrum and having kids on the autism spectrum.
      
      Historically it was less noticed because people tended to marry more randomly and diversely within tribes and social groups, dumb married smart etc. But now we have extremely stratified society where people mostly only associate and marry people of similar education, interests and proclivities. Nowhere highlighted more than places like Silicon valley where autistic spectrum men and women have been drawn by their skills and are reckoned to be more than half of population (compared to less than 1% of whole population) and have a relatively high percentage of autistic spectrum kids (>5%).
      
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      October 9, 2023 4:01pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    If it is necessary to change the dictionary definition of the word vaccine, in order to be able to call your product a vaccine, you can be pretty sure that it isn’t a vaccine.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:47am
    - Ehlana
      
      Insert the word “woman” or “man” and that sentence still works.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:20pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    “Polio and diptheria were eliminated in NZ through vaccination”
    
    Take a look at this history of Diptheria in France. Look at the trend from 1906 through to 1938 when the Diptheria vaccination was introduced. Down. Followed by a spike, and then a resumption of the earlier downward trend.
    
    The same trend is visible for measles.
    
    Free from the boisterous assertions of pharmaceutic companies, the improving trend of the 20th century is mostly due to improved sanitation and general healthcare.
    
    In contrast, the eradication of Polio is one where the arrival of a vaccine was clearly instrumental.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:39am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Oh, and here’s a bonus chart asserting the effectiveness of the flu jabs in the US.
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:28am
      - Dudley Quaffquaff
        
        You still haven’t shown us your evidence of a causative link between the MMR vaccine and autism.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:33pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I’m not going to try as I have not fully researched the topic. I have, however, done a little more than most who get their belief systems from the evening news.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:56pm
- krazykiwi
  
  “So the latest data shows that any protection offered by the vaccine wears off after 120 days.”
  
  It’s worse that that, Benedict. Whether by antigenic imprinting (sometimes called Original Antigenic Sin – nifty!) or by some other as-yet undiscovered mechanism, ‘vaccine’ effectiveness turns negative for most recipients, meaning they become more susceptible to subsequent infection. This stuff has been known for close to two years, and vigorously suppressed by the vaccine industrial complex. Bottom line: We were lied to, and aggressively so.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:53am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    👏👏👏
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:19am
- Tomtoddy
  
  I realise this is not a place for medical advice but if you got any of the jabs you should begin taking bovine colostrum in some form. Among the many negatives – and there are a heap – the vaccines took a toll on T cells needed for a strong immune system. Colostrum builds T cells and boosts immunity.
  
  The more we learn about the Covid vaccines the more we realise they were dangerous, poorly researched and tested and could claim very little genuine help.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:02am
- bennerg
  
  One of the problems I see ahead is that there now appears to be a move to replace “traditional” vaccines with mRNA technology.
  
  I cannot see this working out well.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:22am
- rouppe
  
  If you have to take a shot more than twice, it isn’t a vaccine. It’s a prophylactic, a bit like the malaria tablets.
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:34pm
slightlyrighty

The media spin over the Nats stating that there may be a second election is just another example of twisting a narrative to suit their own bias.

Nothing that Luxon has said is incorrect. If there is a situation where a government cannot be formed after an election, one possible outcome is a new election. It has always been the case.

For the media to breathlessly parrot the Labour Party line without analysis or context shows that they cannot manage their own biases.
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October 9, 2023 8:39am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  National and ACT have given NZ First a lifeline by saying they might work with them after Labour rightly ruled them out. If NZ First does end up with the balance of power, any resulting government will be a very poor one and National/ACT will be largely to blame.
  
  Luxon and Seymour failed to do the right thing and have to own the consequences of that.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:53am
  - ISeeRed
    
    What would have been an effective way to neutralise Peters politically this cycle? For decades now, I have witnessed this shyster and charlatan spout populist rhetoric every three years to connive and con his way back into power then do SFA except break or flip flop on campaign promises. His brand and electability must be destroyed permanently.
    
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    October 9, 2023 7:57pm
    - Ghost
      
      National promising a transparent open investigation of the past 3 years would have taken Peter’s oxygen away
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

National in a meltdown. Second Election? Does not worry me, but on one condition.
Luxon must rule Winston Peters out. He is toxic. Luxon should have ruled Peters out when Hipkins did. This is Luxon’s inexperience showing.

Hipkins “They have introduced chaos.” Well what the hell did you think Labour has done to NZ in the last 6 years, sunshine?

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/they-have-introduced-chaos-labour-claims-national-in-meltdown-after-threat-of-second-election/ar-AA1hRxkI?
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October 9, 2023 8:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Pathetic. Hipkins was all ear to ear smiles the day Winston picked them in 2017.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:44am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    On the Hosking show this morning, mike proposed a hypothesis that Hipkins resigns on election day/night and the new leader of the Labour Party makes a coalition deal with Winston … I wouldn’t put it past those weasels in labour. It made me more depressed about the election 😢
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:27am
    - Damocles11
      
      Hipkins is a dead man walking as Labour leader for two reasons:
      
      1/ He is standing in the way of a coalition with NZF.
      
      2/ He is standing in the way of the implementation of Wealth Taxes & the CGT.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:50am
      - Flossie
        
        3/ He doesn’t have the right ethnic background
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:03am
    - rouppe
      
      Doesn’t even have to bed on the night.
      
      “During coalition negotiations, I realised I didn’t have anything left in the tank and decided to resign effective immediately to spend more time with my family.”
      
      Thus “not the same Labour party” and an escape clause for Winston
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:40pm
- Vinicius
  
  I agree, the Nats have botched it up re Winston from the start. And after that nonsense yesterday about a second election I don’t know where they’re going re Peters.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  National and ACT have disappointed. Chris Luxon played into Winston’s hands. Seymour acted the smart Alec too much.
  
  Luxon would have been better off saying he would never go into government with Winston. Ever.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:47am
  - Tricati
    
    The only good outcome of Peters being in the frame is the adverse coverage he is getting over his obnoxious grandstanding over previous coalition negotiations, and he doesn’t like it.
    Peters and Jones are just smart alec’s, that will add nothing to getting NZ back on track, and it disappoints me that so many can’t see it.
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:56am
  - David Garrett
    
    Seymour acted the smart Alec too much.
    
    Quite so…and worse, he is too full of himself to see that acting as he has done has substantially reduced ACT’s support, now back in single figures after getting to 14% IIRC
    
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    October 9, 2023 8:57am
    - Colville
      
      DG.
      What election did ACT get 14% in?
      
      Or were you counting unhatched chickens?
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:11am
      - Matt Long
        
        All the numbers DG is quoting are from polls, are you also questioning the current single figures.
        
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        October 9, 2023 1:44pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Seymour certainly was. Silly boy.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:01pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Agree. I thought Luxon and company would have learned the lesson by contrasting Key in 2008, who said he couldn’t trust Peters, with English in 2017 who refused to spike Peter’s weapon of the day, which was all the BS about “giving National a spine” by merely saying the same thing as Key had.
    
    Luxon appears to have turned on this issue but it may be a bit late. Just one of the differences between business and politics. Not only does “win-win” often not apply “lose-lose” can be an objective – and a nastily effective one at that.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:03am
  - H. Upmann
    
    Luxon was a fool not to fully and very publicly push Peters out on any contention for coalition.
    
    The moment Luxon said he would pick up the phone and call Peters if necessary, ratings for Peters went up by at least 2%. Luxon had made an open invitation for the lame-brained who wanted to “send a message to National/ACT” to change their vote to NZ1.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:22am
- cmm
  
  The thing you need to understand about Labour/Greens is that they do not have the country’s interests at heart.
  
  If they can’t have the baubles then they will sabotage everything they can – regardless of the damage to NZ.
  
  A clear example of this is the way they sabotaged the partial asset sales some years ago – promising they would re-nationalise the assets. They didn’t re-nationalise the assets – they lied. But they did sabotage the sales and knock a few billion off the value that could have been a school or hospital.
  
  The same is happening again. They know they can’t win (or form a stable government), but since they can’t have it they are just causing as much damage as they can.
  
  Bastards.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:51am
- redeye
  
  The second election stuff was just a shot over Peters bow to say, don’t ask for anything outrageous in the coalition negotiations. We’re not afraid of doing it all again.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:59am
- septic skeptic
  
  Ruling out Winston doesn’t necessarily stop him getting to 5% and holding the balance of power. What then? If both NAT and LAB rule him out, do they then form a grand coalition? Blue/Green? Another election? Same result?
  Luxon should rule him out IMO, but as a matter of principle – not electoral convenience. But on the other hand I tend to think when push comes to shove most of them would deal with the devil.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:02am
  - Philview
    
    I suspect Hipkins will on the phone to Winston and a deal will be struck despite their current positions.
    
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    October 9, 2023 1:08pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Winston is not the devil. The devil is the leaders who force mandated the population to take an ineffective vaccine with serious side effects for some, and released riot police against the protestors.
    
    Chris Lynch interviews Winston. As they discuss amongst other things the alleged 11,000 govt workers being exempted from the vaccine?!! Even people who had side effects from the first vaccine weren’t exempted.
    
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1711176109105324481
    
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    October 9, 2023 2:29pm
    - miltonF
      
      That is an amazing interview by Peters. He totally nails all of the issues.
      
      What do Luxon and Seymour have to say about the health workers vaccine exemption scandal? Is that crickets I hear? That’s right. Because they knew about it at the time didn’t they? Otherwise it would be the perfect ammunition to finish off Labour for good.
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:10pm
- peterwn
  
  There may only be a second election if National+ACT win 59, 60 or 61 seats. With that scenario National, ACT and Winston would be under enormous public and media pressure to do a deal and Winston would be in no position to call the shots.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:07am
- Surely Knott
  
  This reeks of exactly the block that happened from inside parliament as the media and major political parties all agreed to block the protestors (who were right).
  
  Your choices are
  
  1. Nats and Act. (who currently don’t have the numbers)
  2 Nats and Act and NZ1. (which would remove Labour and win with a comfortable margin)
  3 Nats ACT and NZ1 win but you choose to roll the dice again and hope that in a months time, Nats and Act would beat Labour, TPM and Greens?!! Heck no. Are you kidding me.
  
  A vote to put NZ1 over 5% is mathematically the best way to secure a change of government. He is also a conservative leader who wants to address media bias, globalist organisations influence in our democracy, women’s rights, and hold a robust covid enquiry.
  
  I get that your peeved that Winston chose Jacinda. But your approach would allow Labour to get back in because you had the numbers to form a govt but instead chose to undermine a coalition partner and go back to the polls!
  
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  October 9, 2023 2:24pm
kowtow

Minto is vile .

Extraordinary how the media uses euphemisms to describe these animals as “gunmen” or ‘militants’ , not using the “t” word .Which in other circumstances they use with gay abandon.

And so many of these atrocities carried out to the repeated chants of ‘God is Great’ .

Where’s the red hot media outrage . I don’t see it.

Likewise there’s a genocide of Armenians happening right now , to very little media interest.
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October 9, 2023 8:47am
- NothingLeft
  
  Rape and torture is double plus good when it’s done by the right sort of rapists and torturers (people who hates competent and successful cultures).
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:50am
- NothingLeft
  
  Should also be noted that Minto is an extreme marxist. He supported anything that might undermine democratic countries and see more marxist/communist takeovers. Including (in their time) Chavez, Castro, Pol Pot, PRC, USSR. He even harangued Mandela about not going communist.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:33am
Observant Octagenarian

Thank goodness!
The United Nations Security Council is holding an emergency meeting to resolve the Hamas attack on Israel.
Expect a peaceful resolution in the next day or so!
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October 9, 2023 8:51am
- Matt Long
  
  UN Resolution xxx on The Palestinian Issue.
  Dear me, naughty Hamas.
  Israel must cease all hostility and let peace resume by stopping the blockade of Hamas, they must cease new settlements and hand back the temple mount to Fatah.
  They must hand back all occupied territory to Hamas and allow the state of Palestine to set up a well armed military to annihilate Israel, then there will be peace.
  
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  October 9, 2023 1:40pm
Maggie Pie

And here’s something you may not of known?

One of the girls at tennis is a paralegal. She was telling us that there is NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT for a Judge to check the facts of a ‘Cultural Report’.
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October 9, 2023 8:51am
- cmm
  
  Yup, they should be having cultural reports checked.
  
  It is an offense to make a false statement to the courts and that would include cultural reports. Anyone making a dodgy cultural report is opening themselves up to prosecution (in theory anyway). In practice laws only have teeth if they are enforced.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:56am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Or perhaps she’s just been paying attention
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/tara-oakley-cultural-report-writer-on-whether-judges-need-to-check-the-facts-of-a-cultural-report/#:~:text=LISTEN%20ABOVE-,There%20is%20no%20legal%20requirement%20for%20judges%20to%20check%20the,a%20cultural%20report%20during%20sentencing&text=It's%20not%20uncommon%20for%20us,because%20of%20a%20cultural%20report.
  
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  October 9, 2023 8:58am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: Something you may not HAVE known dear.
  
  I thought that a Remmers gal like yourself would be much more literate. Or did you “marry up”?
  
  It has recently been made clear that neither judges nor anyone else – such as the prosecution – have any duty or even ability to check that the contents of cultural reports are accurate.
  
  Habitual crims – being the rat cunning individuals that many are – would of course tell the report writer woeful tales of abuse of various kinds in order to “play the sad violin” to the greatest credible degree.
  
  Have you not noticed that sex offenders frequently claim having been abused themselves by conveniently dead uncles and “uncles” whose names they can’t remember, because Mum had so many of them? I’m afraid I read such accounts with a great deal more than a pinch of salt.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:04am
- peterwn
  
  A cultural report is just a ‘get out of jail free’ card.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:09am
Podium of

……destruction of democracy.

What, throughout history, do Tribalism, socialism, feudalism and fascism all have in common? They all:
– keep we common people in need of the elite
– maintain a massive amount of control
– rule through fear, of something bad happening to us (but the elite can save us)
– limit our freedom
– allow us to survive, but not accumulate wealth
– control us through edicts passed without any consultation or transparency
– limits and controls information we have access to.

Does all this sound familiar? Of course it is – it’s what we’ve been living in the past 3 years! A further 3 years will be even worse, building on the past 3 years excesses. However, this election has been focussed on media sound bites ignoring the past and persecuting the right parties, while the real issues are being ignored. A significant issue this election is a return to democracy, which means:
– we are all equal under the law
– we have one person, one vote
– there is freedom of speech
– entities funded by the government (media, academics, etc.) must declare their conflict of interest
– the government must abide by the law, both local and international
– a commitment not to cede our sovereignty to any supranational organization
– an open government process at all levels, with real public consultation, not the illusion of it.

It is clear the major parties don’t see this as an issue, while the minor parties on the right do. Let’s hope that these minor parties have enough say in a future government to return us to democracy.
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October 9, 2023 8:51am
All_on_Red

Biden administration expressed concerns Aid to Palestinians would be used for weapons
But Irans friends in the US State dept gave it anyway

‘We assess there is a high risk Hamas could potentially derive indirect, unintentional benefit from U.S. assistance to Gaza. There is less but still some risk U.S. assistance would benefit other designated groups,” the State Department wrote in a draft sanctions exemption request circulated internally in March 2021, shortly after Biden took office. “Notwithstanding this risk, State believes it is in our national security interest to provide assistance in the West Bank and Gaza to support the foreign policy objectives.”
https://freebeacon.com/biden-administration/biden-admin-raised-concerns-palestinian-aid-would-boost-hamas-it-went-ahead-with-aid-anyway/

Obama started the love fest with Iran when he allowed and supported their nuclear program
Now they will have to try to rescue all the Americans taken hostage by Hamas
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October 9, 2023 8:55am
- All_on_Red
  
  Bonus article on how Iran infiltrated the State Dept and the Pentagon to influence Policy
  They had quite the Spy Ring going on
  ‘The contents of the emails are damning, showing a group of Iranian American academics being recruited by the Iranian regime, meeting together in foreign countries to receive instructions from top regime officials, and pledging their personal loyalty to the regime. They also show how these operatives used their Iranian heritage and Western academic positions to influence U.S. policy toward Iran, first as outside “experts” and then from high-level U.S. government posts. Both inside and outside of government, the efforts of members of this circle were repeatedly supported and advanced by Malley, who served as the U.S. government’s chief interlocutor with Iran under both the Obama and the Biden administrations. ’
  https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/iran-spy-ring-robert-malley-lee-smith
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:05am
Clownworld

One way to convince the hoi polloi is to follow the globalusts narrative. This election stop thinking what is best for your country and your family. Let us tell you who to vote for.

You can vote for either uniparty Lab or Nat as long as they appear to run the country while the globalusts pull their strings.

NZ 2023 instructions to media early on.
1. Increase Act or Green votes
2. Increase Lab or Nat votes.
3. Ignore all minor parties even ones on an island somewhere.
4. Focus on Green Sustainability
5. Focus on Inflation cost of living
6. Make it appear a closer contest.
7. Stop Winston First
8. Do not allow a party to question the narrative. Brush WuHan under a rug.
9. Get rid of critical and alternate thought from parties especially around SDG, Co-Governance, challenging indigenous principles of Waitangi views.
10. Collect the money dedicated to only one narrative source of truth.

I never seen in my lifetime such a shambolic collection of misfits for an election.
It is however reflective in the Western world such corruption colliding with incompetence is apparent in most governments worldwide.

Good luck selecting a winner this election.

p.s. If it is a second election caused by Luxon then Lab will romp in.
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October 9, 2023 8:56am
- I remember when
  
  Globalusts.
  Sometimes a typo tells the truth.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:55am
  - imalwaysright
    
    A Klausism?
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:12pm
Ian Boag

I get it that KBers don’t like Peters. If we look at what he did in the 2017 Adern government ….

– pretty much killed the CGT initiative.
I think KBers would probably approve of that

– got a few billion for the PGF.
I haven’t seen a list of when and where the money went. Some of it was no doubt a bit dodgy.

– was a reasonably competent foreign minister.
What does a foreign minister do anyway?

– Opposed the creation of new marine reserves (Kermadec etc).

– was by and large agin special treatment for Maori
Say no more ….

He said “elect me and I will be a handbrake”. And he was.

I don’t much like him, but that’s a separate issue and I don’t see that his track record is all that bad. I’m happy to be enlightened about the other bad things he did in government …
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October 9, 2023 8:58am
- All_on_Red
  
  He lies Ian
  That’s the problem with Winston
  He can’t be trusted
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:07am
  - Ian Boag
    
    He lies Ian
    
    May well be true … I guess it’s all so blindingly obvious that it’s beneath your dignity to list the lies.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:32am
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘Beneath my dignity’
      Lol
      Smearing little troll aren’t you
      
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      October 9, 2023 1:35pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Which of them doesn’t lie ffs.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:32am
  - JackRabbit
    
    He is not lying about the Vaccine deaths, vaccine injuries, and excess all cause mortalities.
    
    Luxon is lying over that, as is Seymour.
    
    2023 is quite a different landscape to 2017.
    
    In 2023 if you don’t know of at least one person who died within hours of the clotshot, or at least a dozen people who has vaccine injuries., or had massive vaccine reactions, it is time to come out of your hut in the bush.
    
    We are at war. A war with tyranny. Is is time look at what is really going on, and put everything in order of priority.
    
    Maybe you can’t trust Winston, but you sure as hell can’t trust Hipkins, the Greens, Luxon, Seymour. All have sold out to big Pharma, who are pulling their strings.
    
    I have always voted National electorate to keep Labour out of my electorate. I have always voted ACT party. I vote strategically, swallow a rat and still probably vote National to keep red out of my electorate. And vote NZF to get a voice of reason.
    
    But both Luxon and Seymour are vaccine death, vaccine injury, excess death deniers, and their parties fall in line. Seymour has purged people from his party that even asked questions. Who does that?
    
    Can you trust anyone that either denies the deaths and injuries, and/or that purges anyone from their parties that dare even ask rational questions?
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:14am
    - imalwaysright
      
      J,
      
      “2023 is quite a different landscape to 2017.”
      
      Yes, you are correct.
      It has that post apocalyptic feel about it.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:16pm
- cmm
  
  ” If we look at what he did in the 2017 Adern government”
  
  Ummmmmmmm he CREATED the 2017 Ardern government!
  
  If someone pushes you into the river, then offers to help you out do you thank them?
  
  Nope, so why thank Peters for curbing the worst excesses of the government he created?
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:07am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Nobody could have predicted what an evil pos Ardern was to become.
    That’s how she got an absolute majority in 2020. Most people were conned by her’charm’.
    She was our Obama.
    
    Stop trying to solely blame Peters for the nightmare of the last few years. It sounds really pathetic to any but the most dyed in the wool NACT supporters.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:36am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Nobody is solely blaming Peters. The main blame lies with Jacinda and the rest of the Labour party.
      
      But neither can Peters be absolved of any responsibility. He had a choice and he made a bad one for bad reasons.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:11am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And it was a huge chunk of Nat Voters that crossed over to Labour to give Labour a majority on 2020.
      
      Stop trying to solely blame Peters for the nightmare of the last few years. It sounds really pathetic to any but the most dyed in the wool NACT supporters.
      
      Agreed – it was not Peter’s that mandated the vaccines, locked us down, and destroyed NZ.
      Anyone that blames Peters for what Ardern, Hipkins, Bloomfield, et all did, is obviously still drinking the Jacinda Koolaid.
      
      And ACT went along with it, post 2020 election.
      
      And Luxon has said he will he target 95% vaccinations, so next pandemic he will do what exactly what Ardern did. As he has pointed out, “we would have responded to the Pandemic the same way the Labour govt did, except we would have done it more efficiently.” (paraphrased)
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:22am
      - I remember when
        
        Disregard the Peters going with Labour arguments.
        Recall every interview you have ever heard involving him, at any time, and try to isolate a single case where it made you any the wiser about his intentions.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:45am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @I remember when
        
        Winston’s Interview with peter Williams
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1cPGsHZ8R0
        
        https://realitycheck.radio/winston-peters-on-unwinding-legislation-and-his-proposed-royal-commission-into-media-bias/
        
        https://realitycheck.radio/casey-costello-erika-harvey-and-kirsten-murfitt-on-what-brought-them-to-campaign-and-stand-for-nz-first/
        
        https://realitycheck.radio/winston-peters-on-the-recent-poll-revealing-that-national-will-need-nz-first-as-a-coalition-partner/
        
        https://realitycheck.radio/kirsten-murfitt-lawyer-and-nz-first-candidate-on-her-concern-about-the-erosion-of-democracy-in-nz/
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:04pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I knew Ardern was dangerous after watching the “Comrades” speech in Hungary in 2009. It is on Youtube. I’m not linking to that shit here.
      14 years ago I did not know her target was to destroy NZ, but I did know she craved power.
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:29am
    - Damocles11
      
      I guess if you’re someone that voted for Labour for 4 decades then you’d be scratching your head trying to figure out what was wrong with Winston going with Labour in 2017.
      Most here would have been opposed to Labour long before anyone had even heard of Covid.
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:04am
    - cmm
      
      “Nobody could have predicted what an evil pos Ardern was to become.”
      
      C’mon it was obvious. She’s not even tremendously interested in Labour other than using it as a stepping stone for her own career.
      
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      October 9, 2023 5:03pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      For my part I never liked her – she was a fake. But the masses swooned over her. Would they have done that if the media had pushed hard her roots in the global communist movement? Played the video of her speech as the President – comrades this and comrades that? I think that would have put a lot of people off. So I blame Peters for his part putting her into power to maximise his personal gain and vendettas and I blame the media who covered up and did her PR like they did for 5 more years.
      
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      October 9, 2023 8:26pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Peter’s supported the 2017-20 Labour govt that massively ramped up spending while simultaneously degrading pretty much every govt service and ramped up the divisive racist governance push that has become such an issue. If he hadn’t (and he could have pulled the plug at any time) none of their appalling mismanagement would have come to pass.
  
  Until covid hit Labour were behind National in the polls – the whole country could see what an utterly incompetent and shit job they were doing, but Peter’s stuck with them because he was fond of his baubles and the massive $3Billion provincial NZF bribe fund he was overseeing (the worst sort of pork-barreling excess).
  
  He’s the toxic pied piper of NZ politics.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:46am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Peter’s supported the 2017-20 Labour govt
    
    That’s what minority coalition parties do …. it’s what ACT will do in the new Nat-led gummint.
    
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    October 9, 2023 9:50am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Nobody had a gun to Peter’s head, he was free to walk away from awful and incompetent Labour at any point. That he didn’t tells you all you need to know about the sleazy [insert expletive of your choice.].
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:18am
      - JackRabbit
        
        The record shows that he voted against most if not all of the things in 2017-2020 that Labour went on to implement in 2020 onwards. Hipkins has publicly stated as much.
        
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        October 9, 2023 10:29am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Handbrakes are only good things in the particular circumstances when they’re needed.
  
  It was a good thing that Winston was, for a while, a handbrake on the Labour government, but not as good as a brakeless Bill English-led National government would have been.
  
  It would have been a bad thing if he had been a handbrake on that National government, but not as bad as a brakeless Labour government turned out to be.
  
  Winston could, in short, have made choices that would have led to New Zealand being a far better place than it is now.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:16am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Winston could, in short, have made choices that would have led to New Zealand being a far better place than it is now.
    
    In hindsight I agree. But both Luxon and Seymour are in real time, making bad choices right now, by refusing to acknowledge the vaccines deaths, vaccine injuries, and all cause excess deaths, etc.
    
    You can either keep on about the past, or deal with the reality of where we are now.
    
    I want NZF, with all their key freedom / democratic candidates as a handbrake to the WEF led National.
    
    Luxon is bought and sold.
    
    And whatever positive attributes you think Seymour has, Casey Costello, Erika Harvey, and Kirsten Murfitt, have it in spades, and combined with Winston’s experience and drive to quash the TPGA, co-governance, Maori racist polices, three waters, NZF is a force to be reckoned with. But especially because unlike National and ACT, they are not in vaccine death/vaccine injury/excess mortality denial.
    
    The excess death toll is now at 10,000, and vaccine injuries / impaired immunity in the hundreds if thousands. Who in their right mind would cover up or deny deaths and injuries ?????
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:40am
  - Raphael
    
    I agree. I think Bill English actually had a good plan to rescue kids before their lives ended up on a trajectory of gangs and jail. This and other things he was planning would have permanently changed NZ society for the better. I blame Winston wanting his revenge for this.
    And in his speech in 2017, Winston admitted that his choice of Labour would be making things worse, but that it wasn’t his fault.
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:01pm
- Damocles11
  
  He put Labour in power! ‘He acted as a handbrake on Labour, he’s good’. Again: he put Labour in power!
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:54am
  - Ghost
    
    And last election national voters put labour into power
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:00am
    - cmm
      
      … and NZF was not in parliament.
      So what’s the point you are trying to make?
      
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      October 9, 2023 5:05pm
      - Ghost
        
        I think it’s pretty obvious don’t you. Last election national voters put labour into power. If someone is going to rabbit on that nz first put labour into power they should also face up to that national voters last election put labour into power, just as they did the election before when they voted for Winston, a man who was never going to go with bill English and Paula.
        
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        October 9, 2023 5:24pm
- Jethrod
  
  And with the selection of Winstone you get a free carbon copy in Shane, who is stepping in Wins footsteps to take over when Wins had enough, ie about 12 months into a new term.
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:31am
- rouppe
  
  Have us Jacinda as PM. That’s a pretty big bad one
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:46pm
- NothingLeft
  
  What happened to his 2017 promised binding referendum on race-based seats? He went on and on about it being a bottom line leading up to election (to draw in the ever gullible NZF voters). He had complete power to end Labour govt if they didn’t accede. But it never happened.
  
  Yet another Winston lie.
  
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  October 9, 2023 4:18pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300983027/theres-a-million-pothole-stories-out-there-heres-one-womans

“It was literally the first corner after the straight and there was a huge line of potholes. I slowed down to 30kph, obviously. “

Yeah, right !
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October 9, 2023 9:04am
- BullyHayes
  
  The fashion of low profile tyre/wheel fitment on normal road cars is an expensive fashion. Detrimental ride to ride quality, highly priced componentry and prone to damage as she found out…
  BMW – the ultimate driving machine – but only for race track smooth roads…
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:11am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I’m guessing just pothole free would suffice. No need to hyperventilate….
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:50am
  - JackRabbit
    
    The problem is not with the car. The problem is with the road. And potholes affect all vehicles to one degree or another.
    
    By design, public highways and roads are supposed to be race track smooth. Roads are not supposed to be goat tracks only passable by off road vehicles.
    
    If there was a train derailment or stopped train every other day because of buckled track due to a lack of maintenance, would you blame the accidents on the train only being able to run on smooth untwisted track?
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:50am
    - MCōs
      
      My son is now a teacher up near Whangarei. He tells me the roads up in the north are in a terrible state due to constant flooding earlier in the year plus trucks overloaded for the conditions.
      I also heard that our roads are low cost, high maintenance.
      
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      October 9, 2023 1:06pm
    - cmm
      
      “By design, public highways and roads are supposed to be race track smooth. ”
      
      Well that’s never the case. Reality is that roads break down.
      
      If you’re going to drive around in a car that falls apart if it doen’t have a perfect road, then you’d be wise to drive extremely slowly and check the road as you go.
      
      Trying to equate a buckled rail with a small pothole is beyond ridiculous. A good 90% of the cars on NZ roads can handle a few potholes. 99.9% of trains can’t handle a buckled track.
      
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      October 9, 2023 5:10pm
- Paulus
  
  My tyre blew on a quiet suburban road on a manhole/pothole – $720.
  
  4 1
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  October 9, 2023 2:25pm
  - cmm
    
    How does that end up costing $720?
    Did you also smash your suspension?
    
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    October 9, 2023 5:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Yesterday a commenter on this blog (Jake Dee) asked me where the $6B given to Iran came from.
I assumed it was from the American Taxpayer. However, when you assume something you can make an arse out of yourself. I have.
I did not know this at all. Now I do.
The $6B was in frozen accounts in South Korea. The Biden Admin cleared the way for a transfer to Qatar.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/9/12/biden-administration-clears-path-to-transfer-6bn-in-iranian-assets

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-allows-6-billion-transfer-part-iran-prisoner-swap-2023-09-11/
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October 9, 2023 9:07am
- I remember when
  
  Just got access in time to pay for the rockets presently filling the skies?
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:38am
  - Ghost
    
    It remains untouched. Article
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:41am
    - I remember when
      
      Ghost:
      Like all governments have used their credit card!
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:05am
I remember when

What a mum, gang member and cyclone victim think of this election: Stuff.
Does the accompanying photo of the woman, cousins and baby, make you hope they are going to wear seatbeats and put the baby in an approved carseat before they drive off?
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October 9, 2023 9:12am
Maggie Pie

A bestie retweets…

‘Evil walks among us. I can’t see this going down well with Mt Albert’s Jewish Community’

https://twitter.com/RMarchNZ/status/1393406223018463238
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October 9, 2023 9:13am
- alex Masterley
  
  Unhappily the citizens of Mt Albert wont have their attention brought to the tweet.
  I do hope it has been saved for future reference and perhaps copies have been sent to Rocardo and Chloe.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:47am
- Ruawai
  
  2 of the 3 are gay, not sure they would be welcome in the Middle East.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:14am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘From the River to the Sea’ means that all Israelis are to be killed ‘from the river to the sea’.
  
  Nice of the Greens to support Genocide of the Israeli people
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:36am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Tommy Robinson has a message for them…..
    
    https://twitter.com/ScoopUrban/status/1710600068372332871
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:15am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  You won’t see it on the front page of the Herald, that’s for sure.
  
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  October 9, 2023 7:11pm
septic skeptic

Selecting Ardern and the Labour rabble, along with the PGF, racing industry and fisheries “dodgy” stuff. His track record of finding loopholes in donation rules is a big red flag, as is his lying to the public “NO” sign etc. That’s before we look into his sidekick Jones.
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October 9, 2023 9:17am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Run of the mill stuff for all politicians apparently.
  Now what about Seymour lying and saying there is no excess all cause mortality in NZ?
  What about him saying that an experimental ‘vaccine’ that provably does nothing like what was claimed and provably harms people, yet he claims it is safe and effective?
  
  Which one is the bigger lie?
  
  He had my vote, right up until that point.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:42am
  - Damocles11
    
    In post after post you let Winston off the hook with this ‘oh well, all politicians lie’ bit. You then continue your hit-job on Seymour over the only issue that seems to matter to you. I speculate that if ‘covid’ had never turned up, you’d still be a happy little Labour voter.
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:07am
    - Ghost
      
      Hitjob? So clan stating that Seymour openly denied something is now a hitjob. Our precious, do you need a safe room?
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:18am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Damocles11 – further confirmation if needed that so many NACT supporters can be very petty and one eyed once things don’t go their way.
      
      It’s very simple. Seymour had my vote up until he lied publicly about extremely serious public health matters and he continues to lie about them.
      
      Peters has changed his position, apparently on the basis of new evidence. Seymour had the option to do that, but narcissistically refuses to do so.
      Peters might be lying again. I don’t know. Seymour IS lying again. I DO know.
      
      You can speculate all you want, you’ll still be wrong about my vote.
      
      I’ve mentioned a few times on this blog. I got to meet Ardern briefly when she was still a mere electorate MP. I picked her as a liar and a fraud within 30 seconds of a 3 minute chat.
      At the same event, Nikki Kaye on the other hand impressed me no end. I was sad when she left politics.
      
      I’m not a tribal voter. I vote on what I hear politicians say. Like it or not, covid is the single biggest issue in NZ political history. Seymour lying about it is very important, but you think we should all pretend it didn’t happen?
      
      I don’t think so.
      
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      October 9, 2023 3:15pm
- Paulus
  
  Why do we not know any details of the 2017 secret Ardern Peters agreement.
  Told the media know but will not reveal.
  
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  October 9, 2023 2:27pm
Surely Knott

Chris Hipkins rewrites history on Mike Hosking show.

Hipkins said he regrets the fracturing of NZ that happened during covid. But the period when we moved from the “Elimination Strategy” to covid circulating in the community but was always going to be difficult.

This is misleading. The Elimination Strategy wasn’t a temporary strategy until covid would circulate. The elimination strategy was to use physical means like locking the borders until we could all be vaccinated which would create Herd immunity.

Michael Bakers Research said “Reaching the herd immunity threshold (HIT) with a vaccine of 90% VE against disease and 80% VE against infection requires at least 86.5% total population uptake”

Labour’s elimination strategy was a failure. It didn’t protect against infection. And didn’t create herd immunity at 86.5%.

Why are the major parties so reluctant to blame Pfizer and the vaccine.
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October 9, 2023 9:31am
- septic skeptic
  
  That’s a very important question to answer. I have my suspicions…
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:43am
  - Keith White
    
    “Follow the money.”
    
    15 2
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    October 9, 2023 10:02am
- ClanMcleod
  
  This is a tragic story, it is stories like this that cause me to be so angry with the main political parties in NZ who keep saying move on.
  
  If this doesn’t enrage you nothing will.
  
  https://www.frontline.news/post/tragedy-8-year-old-featured-in-covid-propaganda-video-dies-after-cardiac-arrest
  
  He’s a high profile case, we don’t know if he was jabbed or not…../s
  There are many more like this that you will never know about because the media won’t talk about it and the politicians won’t talk about it. That’s because they are responsible for this.
  
  All of them. Not just Ardern.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:57am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I’d like the 2 down ticks to explain why they did so?
    This is the story of an innocent 8 year old used as a tool in a propaganda operation. Who died as a result of being used by his father and grandfather.
    
    Even if they believed in their heart that this thing was ‘safe and effective’, as medical professionals they must surely have known that the kid was at zero risk from covid.
    
    Why would you risk injecting then with something that was obviously experimental?
    
    I can sort of understand a layperson falling for the intense lies and propaganda, but not doctors.
    
    I’m guessing the negative feedback is sad people who realise now they were duped, but don’t like admitting it. Grow up.
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:07am
    - MCōs
      
      A 15yo student died of a heart attack at a school my son was teaching.
      Fortunately for the family it was a couple of years before covid-19 otherwise they would doubtless have been hassled by zealots about his vaccination status.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:39pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        MCōs – yes, it does happen. Extremely rarely. Not remotely in the numbers it has been happening in the last couple of years.
        The refusal to rule it out leads to the inevitable that some will wonder if the jab was involved.
        
        If you take the time to read the tragic story you’ll see it is almost impossible to conclude that his kid wasn’t jabbed.
        
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        October 9, 2023 3:20pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Why are the major parties so reluctant to blame Pfizer and the vaccine.
  
  Because with all the data now out in the open as regards Pfizer’s contracts, Pfizer’s own test data, and our government knowing the vaccines had massive side effects, blaming Pfizer and the vaccine makes them guilty as well.
  
  With 10,000 excess deaths since Feb 2021, and hundreds of thousands of either injuries, or medical conditions created by decreased immunity, who is accountable? Not the Easter bunny.
  
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  October 9, 2023 9:59am
  - Keith White
    
    “Payback is best prepared with care, and served at room temperature.”
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:02am
I remember when

FTAs: Gold standard or a lot of brass: NZ Farmers Weekly.
An interesting article on whether the Labour governments achievements in procuring FTAs has been as successful as they are claiming.
Has the inclusion of Treaty of Waitangi requirements, difficult for other countries to understand, cost the rural community.
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October 9, 2023 9:35am
Ghost

No outrage from chippy yet

A man has been arrested after allegedly driving his vehicle towards a group of National Party supporters and candidate campaigning in Auckland’s New Lynn.

On Saturday at about 3pm, a 25-year-old man is alleged to have driven towards New Lynn candidate, Paulo Garcia, and party supporters campaigning on the side of the road.

A spokesperson for the party claims the man “swerved at the last moment to avoid them”, then got out of the vehicle and began waving a Labour Party hoarding, though they said there’s “no suggestion this incident is related to Labour”.

Article
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October 9, 2023 9:41am
Suze Wainwright

Did that gang chicks’ hikoi ever make Wellington?
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October 9, 2023 9:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  yep,
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-quick-to-judge-national-police-spokesman-mark-mitchell-fronts-up-to-gang-whanau-at-parliament-over-draconian-policies/JULDXPOKMJGVXESVWR2WXPB2Z4/
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:41pm
Maggie Pie

O.M.G…..this is sooo funny 😀

“Is the Pope racist?”

https://tiktok.com/@kirmatai/video/7285667660472372486
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October 9, 2023 10:03am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Nah, he just doesn’t like people kissing his ring.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:24am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I think that’s transphobic, not racist. I may be wrong …
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:53am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Universities are now racist.
NZ is also missing out on funds from overseas students. Seems the students are not interested in Maori propaganda.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/our-universities-have-become-centres-for-maorification-grooming/?
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October 9, 2023 10:08am
- sparkhole
  
  Good. Overseas students were always a false economy. Society is better off without them.
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:43pm
Chuck Bird

If a National, Act and NZF coalition will not work it does not mean it is Peters’ fault. Seymour has stated that he will not accept NZF being in Cabinet. As a minor party, ACT has no business telling National who will be in Cabinet. I wonder if Seymour has changed his position.
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October 9, 2023 10:10am
- Ghost
  
  Seymour needs to and I believe will be rolled because of his actions this election and how he has decimated the act vote
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:14am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    How would roll him? He has turned Act into a cult where members are expected to support his view on moral issues such as euthanasia and abortion. No other party expects this.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:28am
    - All_on_Red
      
      ‘He has turned Act into a cult where members are expected to support his view on moral issues such as euthanasia and abortion.’
      
      This is just not true. Every day you turn up here and deliberately smear Seymour and Act with lies.
      
      [Mod – keep the personal abuse out of it]
      
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      October 9, 2023 10:33am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        I happen to be a supporter of Maxim and Family First. I say Bob Mc Coskrie is not a liar. He asked legitimate questions.
        
        If Seymour was half as smart as he thinks he is he would have realized Family First has thousands of followers.
        
        His actions caused Act’s poll numbers to drop and NZF’s to go up.
        
        I do not support expanding the euthanasia law and also do not support leaving healthy late-term babies who survive an abortion to die. Do you?
        
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        October 9, 2023 11:31am
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Chuck Bird @ 11:31AM
        
        […] and also do not support leaving healthy late-term babies who survive an abortion to die. […]
        
        That is simply nonsense, Chuck.
        
        I participated in this debate, here, about three years ago, and won’t be doing so again, except to say this: if, in the very unlikely event that a healthy, late-term*, baby had to be removed from its mother’s womb, for whatever reason, it would be delivered by c-section, and, if necessary, eventually put up for adoption. It would not be aborted. I very much doubt you have any evidence of such a thing having happened in New Zealand.
        
        * To me, the expression ‘late-term’ pertains to a pregnancy of more than 20 weeks; more like 30+ weeks. I don’t know if it has been legally defined, but I suspect not.
        
        An abortion in such circumstances would never be “clinically appropriate” (see section 11, here, https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0006/latest/LMS237600.html).
        
        See also section 182(1) of the Crimes Act 1961 Killing unborn child, here, https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM329352.html#:~:text=Every%20one%20is%20liable%20to,had%20become%20a%20human%20being. If an abortion is performed that is not clinically appropriate (in this regard, see subsection (2)), then the fetus / unborn child has been killed in a manner akin to murder.
        
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        October 9, 2023 1:44pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      ACT is a Libertarian party. It is not a Conservative party.
      Pretty sure the Green Party won’t accept “climate change deniers” or Labour won’t accept people with real world experience.
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:50am
      - emmess
        
        Libertarian arguments can be made against euthanasia and especially against abortion.
        
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        October 9, 2023 1:09pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        Are Act a libertarian party still? Hmmmmm. Yeah I don’t think so. Most authoritarian period in our history and he cheered it on.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:40pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Surely Knott, exactly. Seymour’s capitulation here was an eye-opener for me. In an email exchange he told me that not supporting mandates would have been political suicide. I was extremely disappointed at his stance, as I am on a number of other issues. However for me he is still the least bad option in a crowded field of atrocious choices.
        
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        October 9, 2023 4:06pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      He has turned Act into a cult where members are expected to support his view on moral issues such as euthanasia and abortion, and be a vaccine death / injury denier.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:41pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Steve Todd. Thanks for your reply. I cannot prove this has happened in NZ. However, I believe it should be investigated. I am a little middle of the road on abortions, unlike Simon O’Connor. When I first heard Simon propose the amendment I thought similarly to you that I wondered if such a thing happeded anywhere with the exception of China.
      
      I did a little Googling and found that there was a group in the US were survivors of such a thing. A nurse at a clinic in a hospital who assisted with abortion was present when a baby was left to die on a cold stainless steel bench. She took the baby to where premature babies were cared for and the baby survived.
      
      This is also an issue in Australia.
      
      My question is why did MPs vote against Simon’s amendment if it would never happen here?
      
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      October 9, 2023 2:04pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        Steve, I looked at S11 of the new legislation. An abortion over 20 can happen legally if it affects the mother’s mental health.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:13pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Chuck, you specifically referred to healthy, late-term babies. I’m saying such babies would be delivered by c-section, not aborted, because it would not be clinically appropriate to do that.
        
        Yes, the mother’s mental health (if applicable) is a factor in determining whether an abortion is clinically appropriate. But, if gestation has reached a point where a healthy fetus can survive to term in a neonatal intensive care unit, then abortion would not be clinically appropriate – such an act, in my view, would contravene section 182(1) of the Crimes Act 1961. The healthy fetus would be delivered by c-section.
        
        The mental health of the mother would almost always have been determined long before a fetus has become “late-term”. Therefore, in this country, the abortion of a such a fetus would be for other reasons, such as gross abnormality, that sort of thing.
        
        I can’t find it now, and, as I say, I’m not engaging in this debate, again, but the Ministry of Health has guidelines for “qualified health practitioners” who provide abortion services, too.
        
        Right. That’s my lot. I just couldn’t let you get away with such a nonsensical statement; a statement that the Christian Right both routinely and carelessly throw around, knowing it to be a lie.
        
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        October 9, 2023 2:53pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Steve
        I think you will find ‘Chuck’ makes nonsensical statements a lot.
        He NEVER provides Citations to back up his assertions.
        I think that’s called making crap up…
        
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        October 9, 2023 3:08pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        All_on_Red, Check this out.
        
        Dr Seman : Thank you very much for the opportunity to present my personal views on this bill. As only New South Wales and South Australia have abortion laws which ensure that babies born live after abortion are afforded treatment equal to all other babies in Australia, I concur with Professor Howe that federal protection is needed to ensure equality in treatment for all live-born babies.
        
        https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Hansard/Hansard_Display?bid=committees/commsen/26959/&sid=0002
        
        I think if I produced a video I would not convince librarian bigots.
        
        If if killing born alive babies was not the purpose of the legislation why was O’Connor’s amendment voted down?
        
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        October 9, 2023 4:12pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        “found that there was a group in the US were survivors of such a thing. A nurse at a clinic in a hospital who assisted with abortion was present when a baby was left to die on a cold stainless steel bench. She took the baby to where premature babies were cared for and the baby survived”
        
        Bollocks. This would not happen in the real world, only in the imaginations of agenda-pushing propagandists.
        
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        October 9, 2023 5:06pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    I accept Seymour has made some mistakes in the campaign. I suspect he has taken too much on himself and the stress has got to him a bit. IMO he will learn from this, as he has been learning and improving over his whole time in parliament. He got my vote on his performance over the last 6 years – not the last 6 weeks.
    
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    October 9, 2023 10:43am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Agree and he has been attacked constantly.
      Especially from the Rabid Religious Right.
      No wonder he reacted.
      
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      October 9, 2023 3:10pm
- septic skeptic
  
  ACT has every right to choose who they will and will not work with.
  
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  October 9, 2023 10:39am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Is that the same as having a choice whether or not to get the jab?
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:02am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    And even if it means a second election.
    
    If Luxon gives NZF positions as Ministers and Act does not want to be part of the government that could force a second election. The voters have a right to decide who to blame.
    
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    October 9, 2023 11:35am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Or maybe they just go confidence and supply?
      Seriously, it’s like people don’t know how our system works?
      Also, have they asked Hipkins about their own issue?
      Both the Maori Party AND Greens have wealth tax as a bottom line. Surely, Labour can’t form a Government based on that?
      
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      October 9, 2023 11:53am
      - septic skeptic
        
        I guess they can. Just replace Hipkins with Parker.
        
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        October 9, 2023 12:14pm
  - MCōs
    
    If ACT and/or Winston bring down the government they will be custard.
    But that scenario has never happened in NZ, that I’m aware, and I don’t expect it’ll happen now. Those dudes like power too much
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:03pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      It will not be NZF that bring down the govt. It is the job of MPs under MMP to work together to create stable govt. And by stable govt I do not mean “Do as Cindy says, do as Hipkins says, do as Luxon says, do as Seymour says.”
      
      It is do as the people say. Only Luxon and Seymour are saying they do not want to work with other people (NZF) that might be elected to represent a section of the public that voted for them.
      
      It is pure childish and selfish to say you will not work with others.
      
      If this was a high school and a vote was taken on who should be prefects, and you said “I’m happy to be head prefect, but not if Mary Brown, John Smith or any of their friends are prefects.”
      
      In a more astute school of days gone by, you would be labeled childish, a troublemaker, and deemed unfit to be a prefect let alone head prefect.
      
      Luxon does not want NZF in govt, because he doesn’t want to work democratically, and does not want NZF MPs asking hard questions, and having actual debates on ideas in the debating chamber.
      
      Perhaps the debating chamber should be renamed the “bullying chamber” or the “hurling insults chamber”.
      
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      October 9, 2023 12:57pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    No, it is the public’s right to say who they will and will not work with. That is what MMP is all about. And what being a representative of the people is all about.
    
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    October 9, 2023 12:44pm
I remember when

So if National mention the dangers of a ‘second election’ if NZ First play hardball, it’s panicking.
The media never seem to mention that Labour have already promised a ‘second election’ if they need NZ First to form a government.
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October 9, 2023 10:18am
- nathie
  
  Ah the Team of $55m, still busy re-arranging chairs on the sinking SS ~~Titanic~~ Labour.
  
  Hoping to get a pat on their heads by Chippie and Helen …. and maybe a few leftover sausage roll crumbs as a bonus!
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:04am
Chuck Bird

I wonder what National’s charging stations will be powered with.

Largest EV Charging Station In World Powered By Diesel-Powered Generators

https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
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October 9, 2023 10:24am
- JJ56
  
  Probably the 80% and growing renewable electricity we get from our grid.
  
  Next question?
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:59am
I remember when

New evaluation backs Overseer: NZ Farmers Weekly.

Back to the future!
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October 9, 2023 10:25am
Jack5

Investment giant Blackrock reportedly has taken losses on environment-based investments. If this is correct, how is NZ’s Superannuation fund faring?

Blackrock has been a promoter of the investment strategy ESG – environmental, social guidance – called “progressive Utopianism” by some.

If the reports on Blackrock linked to below are accurate, how is NZ’s Superannuation Fund faring with its approach, which it calls “responsible investing”.

Here’s how the “guardians” (directors) of the NZ Superannuation Fund describe their approach:

“The Guardians has a long-standing commitment to Responsible Investment. We believe environmental, social and governance considerations, including climate change, are fundamental to long-term risk and return.”

Blackrock is likely the world’s biggest investment firms, with close to $NZ16 trillion of assets under management.

Blackrock and its ESG:

https://nypost.com/2023/10/07/investment-titan-blackrock-has-taken-massive-hits-because-of-its-use-of-esg/

AND

https://nypost.com/2023/08/26/an-r-i-p-for-esg-is-near/
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October 9, 2023 10:29am
- Surely Knott
  
  It would be good to have some choice also. We choose where we place our kiwisaver. There is one small player int eh US market actively promoting conservative values investment fund. (https://acvetfs.com/ideology/)
  
  If our investment is supporting social and ethical values why don’t we get more choice from the market for our funds. Which kiwisaver fund supports bodily autonomy, democracy and free speech.
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:41pm
- krazykiwi
  
  ‘Losses’ are a great way to explain the result fraudulently misdirected funds.
  
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  October 9, 2023 3:22pm
Nickc2

Bye-bye Skippy bye-bye!
That high-pitched whining noise you can hear is the Wallabies Rugby Union team departing France after being ejected from the Rugby World Cup.
All that noise and their Aircraft hasn’t started its engines yet.
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October 9, 2023 10:39am
Maggie Pie

Bad news for free-speech advocates…

Harvard Uni’s upcoming ‘PANDEMIC PREPAREDNESS CONFERENCE’
will feature a keynote speech by The Rt.Hon.Dame Jacinda Ardern.

https://twitter.com/davidweig/status/1710389397227450520

(not a lot of happy-campers commenting 🙁 )
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October 9, 2023 10:50am
alan

USA gave Iran $6billion to help with the attack on Israel, meanwhile in Iran…..
Australian tv documentary
https://youtu.be/Ml1VwwQaSDo?si=Tw_fjoejFup6REEb
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October 9, 2023 10:54am
I remember when

NY Times:
The six columbian men accused of murdering an Ecuadorean presidential candidate were found dead in prison, the authorities said.

Sometimes a simple explanation says it best.
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October 9, 2023 11:14am
- Colville
  
  Let me guess…self inflicted bullet holes in the back of the head after tying hands behind back and kneeling?? and the weapon had vanished?
  
  That is one well organised mass suicide!
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:45pm
Flossie

I could be wrong but I thought the PM said this morning on Hosking that there’s less crime reported. I know, and know of, many people who are simply not reporting crime as they have no faith that police will attend, and even less chance there’ll be any meaningful investigation.
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October 9, 2023 11:21am
- rouppe
  
  Well, that’s akin to “no one has raised a workplace complaint directly with me”..
  
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  October 9, 2023 11:27am
- mandk
  
  But hasn’t Ginny Anderson been telling us that there has been more crime reported because new systems are making it easier to report?
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:33pm
- cmm
  
  Certainly less and less people report crimes. And when they do, often those get handled informally and casually.
  
  A couple of years ago one of our vehciles was entered. We could not find anything stolen, but reported the incident. Technically, opening a vehicle or building door – even if it is not locked is considered a break in.
  The cop who phoned back a couple of days later was completely disinterested. I doubt very much this got entered into any stats.
  
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  October 9, 2023 1:12pm
Grumpy Silver Haired Female

More ill-considered cost cutting.
Massey University, in what appears to be a cost cutting measure, is proposing to close its Food Science and Engineering school at Albany, and move everything into its existing Palmerston North facility.
A brand new building was opened in Albany at the beginning of this year to host this degree course. What! Why am I mad? Firstly, because this country needs all the trained Food Technologists it can get to help rebuild our shattered economy. The Massey Degree Course, envisioned and started in 1964 to train scientists and engineers in the technology needed to preserve and convert the products of our land into marketable products has produced over the years, leaders in the field. The decision, nearly 30 years ago, to expand into the Auckland region was made to capture young people who had a science/engineering bent but didn’t feel that mechanical/civil/electrical or chemical engineering was their path.
Of course it costs to train productive and useful food scientists and technologists. Just as training medical staff is expensive. People practising such disciplines are immensely important to our economy and our nation. Too many of our university senior staff have no understanding of this.
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October 9, 2023 11:42am
- Blog-aholic
  
  Food Technology is a heart and soul degree at MU. They are fooked IMO. I bet they don’t get rid of the ‘Batchelor of Matauranga’.
  
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  October 9, 2023 12:34pm
Maggie Pie

To think this bunch of arsehats expect people to vote for them 🙁

“The photo they did not want published”

Labor and Green MP’s who like to dress up as Palestinian Terrorists.

https://twitter.com/TheConsultant18/status/1710856921832722633
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October 9, 2023 12:10pm
- Ghost
  
  It’s from Duncan Webb’s facebook page, 2 years ago, one person states. In solidarity with Palestine people
  
  12 0
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  October 9, 2023 12:22pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    No suprise the page has been taken down.
    
    Here’s the animals they’re…. “in solidarity with”
    
    https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1711106370441814082
    
    12 1
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    October 9, 2023 1:04pm
- kowtow
  
  Daily Mail reporting “celebrations” in London.
  
  I wonder how many other western cities are witnessing such disgusting displays .
  
  And how little attention will the media give same .
  
  16 0
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  October 9, 2023 1:50pm
Terry Dalee

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/election-2023-willie-jackson-says-88pc-of-kiwis-support-co-governance-and-three-waters-despite-the-act-party-race-baiting/WKTLTMPLF5AERDCCAOXNMJACJE/

What $$^king planet is Willie Jackson on?! Muppet….

““The idea there’s a secret Māori agenda to steal the water and democracy is so absurd it makes me laugh, yet some Kiwis are convinced these conspiracies are true.” – Willie Jackson

Yes your right Willy, its not secret.. ask your mate Waititi..

“Waititi does not lack for ambition. “We want Māori proprietary rights recognised when it comes to water. Māori own the water,” he thundered; and this isn’t a throwaway line.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/authors/damien-grant/300957967/when-te-pti-mori-tell-us-what-they-stand-for-we-should-believe-them
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October 9, 2023 12:34pm
Sparrow

I am continually amused by all the negative comments about Winston. He can’t be trusted, he lies etc etc. For christ sake all politicians are liars its that simple it comes with the job. Why do they have armies of so called comms people helping them. Just accept it and get on with life. Save the ink and paper.
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October 9, 2023 12:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Lying isn’t a binary proposition. Some lies are trivial exaggerations or omissions. Other lies are blatant, egregious, self-aggrandizing and destructive.
  
  10 1
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  October 9, 2023 12:53pm
  - RichardX
    
    Lying is a binary proposition, either you are lying or you are not. What I think you are trying to say is not all lies have equal impact or consequences.
    
    3 0
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    October 9, 2023 3:09pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  all politicians are liars
  
  How can that be?
  
  Our Dear ex-PM assured us that “lying has no place in politics”.
  
  https://www.nzinitiative.org.nz/reports-and-media/opinion/nzs-most-transparent-government-under-jacinda-ardern-its-the-opposite/
  
  11 0
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  October 9, 2023 12:55pm
  - Ghost
    
    I think Jacinda was our first great politician that never told ~~a lie~~ the truth her entire time in office.
    
    10 0
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    October 9, 2023 1:13pm
septic skeptic

The Greens could be the real kingmakers this election. Will they go with National or try a 4-way with LAB NZF TPM?
2 9
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October 9, 2023 12:40pm
Ghost

If national needs NZ first to form a government I think they will be easier in negotiations than ACT

On Monday leader David Seymour repeated his threat that if National did not agree to ACT’s top demands, the party would not form a coalition and would instead vote for every piece of legislation on a bill-by-bill basis.

“What we’re going to be doing is saying, of course, if you don’t want to work properly together, that’s okay. You will still be Prime Minister, but we’ll work more distantly, and we’ll have to work through vote by vote to do it,” he told Politik.

Article
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October 9, 2023 1:11pm
- Grunter
  
  If Luxon goes soft on stopping co-governance then Seymour has every right to throw his toys out of the cot.
  
  If Luxon pushes for the silly EV charge network with no cost-benefit analysis then Seymour has every right to throw his toys out of the cot.
  
  If Luxon keeps spending tax payers money on civil servants that add zero value then Seymour has every right to throw his toys out of the cot.
  
  Need I go on….? There’s a stack of others by the way
  
  17 1
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  October 9, 2023 1:59pm
  - Ghost
    
    Seymour needs to learn that after the election you have negotiations, not to go around pre election throwing his cookies out and losing voters. The way he is going he will be pushing more people to nz first
    
    2 9
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    October 9, 2023 2:11pm
    - Grunter
      
      Seymour is being up front with what he sees as important and how he will manage policies after the election. If that means some voters ditch him for Winston First then the country gets what it deserves unfortunately.
      
      11 1
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      October 9, 2023 2:42pm
Hugh Jarse

If Labour stick to their guns and not go into coalition with NZ First and National as the highest polling party cannot reach agreement with NZ First, what option is there other than to go for a second election ?, Labour renege and agree to go with NZ First ?.
10 1
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October 9, 2023 1:26pm
- Ghost
  
  I actually get the feeling the problem won’t be nz first, it will be act
  
  4 8
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  October 9, 2023 1:30pm
  - Mrs_Right
    
    I think it will be Mr 5% (Peters) having demands as though he got 50%.
    
    11 0
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    October 9, 2023 2:15pm
    - Ghost
      
      And yet he’s actually behaving far better than Seymour
      
      1 13
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      October 9, 2023 2:19pm
      - Grunter
        
        Bollocks! – IMO
        
        Seymour is far from perfect – he is a politician after all, but Peters is a complete fraudster.
        
        14 0
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        October 9, 2023 2:46pm
      - Ghost
        
        Peter’s would be, if people love him or hate him, the best politician this country has had because he knows how to play the game better than anyone.
        
        1 5
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        October 9, 2023 2:52pm
      - Grunter
        
        IMO
        Peters is the 2nd WORST NZ politician in history – after Ardern.
        
        In 2017 Nats = 44%; Lab = 37% and Peters picks the known socialist fish n chip shop assistant!
        
        11 1
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        October 9, 2023 3:29pm
      - Ghost
        
        He probably is, but there is no one that can play the game better than him.
        
        2 4
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        October 9, 2023 3:32pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        The Peter’s problem is all down to the exceedingly low quality of journalists in this country. Only a couple of whom have the mettel (and memory) to deal with Winston – but when he gets interviewed by Hosking or to some extent Ryan Bridge he just looks like a silly old twat.
        
        8 0
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        October 9, 2023 4:14pm
      - rouppe
        
        Islamic State treated their captives pretty well initially. Fed them, watered them, kept them safe…
        
        Then they got dragged out and their throats cut.
        
        Peters “behaving pretty well” now, means nothing when the negotiating door gets closed.
        
        1 0
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        October 9, 2023 8:09pm
Maggie Pie

Just caught the end of breaking news on Aljaz.
Reporting that ol’ Joe has ordered the largest Warship in the world to head into the Med. Hamas reckon they’re not scared and warned America there will be ‘consequences’

As my partner remarked….it sounds like Israel is about to get a lot larger.
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October 9, 2023 1:51pm
- Grunter
  
  I smell a rat…. not quite sure where it is, but sure as hell Demented Joe’s tele-promopter is about to work overtime….
  
  My first thought when the news broke of the crazy Hammas missiles (2,500-5,000 of them…!) was – “Why now…? – What is this really about…..?”
  
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  October 9, 2023 2:51pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Could be.
  
  Hamas and its backers might be fanatics but they aren’t stupid enough to think an attack of this magnitude and tenor isn’t going to provoke a massive retaliation.
  
  The goal is obviously to pull Israel and its allies into a wider conflict.
  
  They really do believe in the end of the world and the rewards of martyrdom. It might have bin Laden who said how glorious it would be to die fighting the infidel, and rise, and die again, and again and again.
  
  12 1
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  October 9, 2023 2:57pm
- waikatosinger
  
  Very timely. The military industrial complex currently running the US is looking for another nice profitable war. Trump derailed their plans by causing an unscheduled outbreak of peace in the Middle East. This is a wonderful opportunity to undo that and sell more weapons.
  
  7 0
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  October 9, 2023 4:19pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Hamas needs to foment conflict to maintain it’s power in Gaza and justify the violent autocracy it imposes.
  
  Israel will push the retaliation to the hilt of what they think the international community will be prepared to look the other way for.
  
  The rapidly increasing 2.2 million Gazans (expected to be 3.5million in 2035) in 365km² is an insurmountable problem – there is simply no other possible solution than shipping them off to live elsewhere. Perhaps they could buy citizenships for all Gazans in Niger or some other poor 3rd world country, or send them to countries with low birth rates like Japan, China, Korea…
  
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  October 9, 2023 5:18pm
  - thirteenstars
    
    …New Zealand?
    
    Hamas is a fully-owned subsidiary of Iran. This attack is Iran versus Israel and Iran is on record as saying it wants to see Israel destroyed.
    
    Good thing Israel has nukes which means Iran must fight proxy wars using dumbfuck jihadi militias like Hamas.
    
    See, Israel could wipe Hamas off the face of the Earth but even Israel, fighting for its very survival, doesn’t want the bad press of collateral damage.
    
    This latest thing? Nasty for sure. But enough for Israel to unleash hell? Time will tell.
    
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    October 9, 2023 6:37pm
Surely Knott

TVNZ confirms they DID flash multiple times a full screen Labour party attack ad against Winston peters on screen during the weather!!!!!!! Talk about dirty. They’re not even trying to pretend it’s a democracy with impartial media anymore. Wow. This is a low blow.

https://twitter.com/aniobrien/status/1711146629703889378
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October 9, 2023 2:04pm
kowtow

Catch and release.

How much police scarce resources was wasted returning these scrotes to their parents .

Why not phone the parents and tell them to get down to the station to pick them up . At the very least .

‘The youth had been driving around and picking up their nine friends and associates for about two hours before coming to police attention, Snr Sgt Bond said.

Some of the passengers were aged under 14.

Police received no complaints on their manner of driving.

All ten youth were taken home to their parents and referred to Youth Aid.”

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/children-boot-stolen-car-dunedin-joyride
14 1
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October 9, 2023 2:07pm
- cmm
  
  Zero consequences means zero learning.
  
  May as well go park the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Take body bags.
  
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  October 9, 2023 3:06pm
mogg

An elderly neighbour had to take his wife to Hutt Hospital ED on Sunday very early AM, she had Pneumonia. There were no doctors available at Hutt so on the spot she was given a mobile phone consultation with a doctor working at a London hospital and then sent home. All Curtesy of the NZ taxpayer of course.
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October 9, 2023 2:09pm
Chuck Bird

The following is from today’s Herald.

Hipkins on Israel-Hamas conflict

Prime Minister Chris Hipkins has given another statement on the situation in Israel, saying he had spoken to Australia’s PM Anthony Albanese this morning.

Their positions were aligned and they would stay in touch to be sure they were aligning their efforts.

He had also spoken to Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta and told her to ensure New Zealand was ready to respond to any international humanitarian response.

“We will see how things unfold, but we will be ready to respond to any humanitarian response.” He re-stated New Zealand “absolute condemnation.”

Labour leader Chris Hipkins said his statement on Israel “made very clear New Zealand’s position”.

He said there were still commercial flights leaving from Israel and so New Zealanders there had an opportunity to leave.

Hipkins said there was consular support available for anyone there.

“We’ve not had any reports of New Zealanders being caught up in the immediate conflict. If that were to happen we would respond accordingly.

He said Labour supported a two-state solution in Israel.

“It’s regrettable Hamas has launched this attack.

“There are international conventions on proportionality and we would expect countries to follow that.

“I made a very clear statement yesterday on New Zealand’s position.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-chris-hipkins-would-rather-second-election-than-break-his-word-work-with-winston-peters/HBZCH7DJLNAYPLQJSTJ5FEGJGY/

Who would the humanitarian response go to and would if be money?

What does he mean by proportionality? Does he mean that Israel should not kill any more of the scum than the losses Israel suffered?

What is needed is a missile at the place where Iran is making material for a bomb. This would not have happened under Trump.
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October 9, 2023 2:23pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The notion of ‘proportionality’ in war is beyond absurd. The objective in any war is to vanquish the opposition, in this case a party that has in its constitution an objective to destroy the Israeli state.
  
  16 2
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  October 9, 2023 3:02pm
  - Grunter
    
    And who gets to judge what is proportional…?
    
    I have a hunch that when you fire “5,000 missiles” at the Israelis then it’s up to Israel to judge what a proportionate response is (not NZ’s PM Hipkins who has 5 days left in his job!)
    
    I’d suggest that there are lots of players involved in this one and we’re about to see a new siht fight.
    
    And who will be first to say, “….the Middle East war has created inflation….”?
    
    16 1
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    October 9, 2023 3:24pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Don’t poke the bear.
      These people are idiots. If there is one country that you don’t mess with, it’s Israel – they don’t suffer fools, and don’t take prisoners (not literally).
      
      7 1
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      October 9, 2023 5:01pm
    - kowtow
      
      From what I’ve read , the rockets were a distraction , esp being on such a massive scale .The distraction being , the Israelis saying “Oh here we go again , let’s get down into the shelters”.
      
      This would appear to have worked as then came the “infiltration” which was on a massive scale , by land sea and air. The Israelis in the past usually expected “commando” attcks to come via tunnels and had spent massive resources and tech in detecting tunnels ,so didn’t expect the attacks as they occurred.
      
      Another huge problem was , I’ve seen a figure of 10 000 , officers in the army on strike due to the constitutional crisis .This must have had a degrading effect on readiness and effectiveness . Also Israel had felt the Gaza situation was “stable” , they were considering allowing an increase in the number of labourers coming over to work. The govt had also been increasing troop levels on the West bank due to tensions there .But not at Gaza.
      Finally it was a holiday and it seems the people who should have been on alert were caught off guard ; the command centre for Gaza was certainly attacked , I’m not sure if it was over run and senior officers captured , but that should never happen.
      
      Meanwhile what “proportionality” can be applied to terrorists who massacre young people at a music festival , 260 of them . Or to people who take 100 hostages , as well as kidnapping murdered people . All this done to the cries of “God is Great”.
      
      Our media still call these animals , “militants” , I note some overseas media call them what they are ; terrorists.
      Our media apologists need to keep up and get real.
      
      9 0
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      October 9, 2023 5:07pm
    - cmm
      
      To be fair here (not that fairness is in order), there are rockets and there are rockets.
      
      The vast majority of the rockets that were fired seem to be the Quassam rockets made by Hammas. These are small, cheap, inaccurate and short range. The largest warheads are something like 20kg.
      
      They are mainly just a nuisance (though undoubtedly if you fire 5000 of them a few lucky ones will cause some bad damage).
      
      Iron Dome is not designed to take on these rockets.
      Iron Dome is designed to take on larger, longer range rockets. eg. SCUDs which have a 500-700kg war head.
      
      When you hear “5000 rockets” it sounds like that would wipe most things out. But consider that the docklands of London alone got hit by 25,000 bombs during the Blitz and was still largely functional. And those were fairly accurately placed 250kg or more bombs – each equivalent to 25 (at least) Quassam rockets.
      
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      October 9, 2023 5:41pm
  - cmm
    
    Correct. The idea of a fair fight in war is ridiculous. You use every advantage you can including trickery and espionage.
    
    In an asymmetric/guerilla/terrorist war, then there is no way you can be proportional. Israel take huge measures to limit civilian casualties, but Hammas do not. In such situations there can not be any notion of symmetry.
    
    Guerillas and terrorists have a massive advantage over conventional
    
    9 0
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    October 9, 2023 5:26pm
- Nickc2
  
  Don’t forget, Hipkins’ teaming partner the Greens past practice is siding with the Terrorists.
  Hamas are Marama Davidson’s BFFs.
  That aside, Hipkins’ mob will do what their masters (the Unions) dictate they should do.
  
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  October 9, 2023 3:11pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Proportionality:
  Hamas fired 5,000 rockets so does that mean Israel gets to fire 5,000 back?
  5,000 Israeli rockets would turn Gaza into glass.
  Or are Israel restricted to incompetence and have to use rockets that only hit their intended target 20% of the time?
  Hamas have wholesale targeted innocent civilians so what’s the proportionality there? Is Hipkins advocating Israel just wholesale slaughters Palestinians? How about taking young girls as playthings/human shields? Is Israel allowed to do that too?
  
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  October 9, 2023 3:41pm
Maggie Pie

Just in case you thort it wasn’t going to happen…..

WATCH:

https://tiktok.com/@trumpzaddy/video/7287686953137540398

(full screen/sound up)
4 1
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October 9, 2023 2:56pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Another chap breaching bail

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300985472/police-appeal-for-witnesses-after-serious-kidnapping-of-two-children
11 0
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October 9, 2023 3:07pm
ClanMcleod

“Turbo Cancers” Are Decimating Young Doctors: 54 Cases Examined
Out of 180 Canadian doctors who have died unexpectedly since COVID-19 vaccines rolled out in Canada, 42 had cancer.

https://vigilantnews.com/post/turbo-cancers-are-decimating-young-doctors-54-cases-examined

What could it possibly be? Pure coincidence, that’s the one!
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October 9, 2023 3:40pm
- cmm
  
  “Out of 180 Canadian doctors who have died unexpectedly since COVID-19 vaccines rolled out in Canada, 42 had cancer.”
  
  How is that surprising?
  
  In NZ there are approx 10,000 cancer deaths a year out of approx 38,000 deaths. That’s about 26%.
  
  42 out of 180 is…. 23%.
  
  6 1
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  October 9, 2023 5:20pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Cancer is more prevalent in older people. In order to draw any conclusions from the above we would have to have more information about the ages of the deceased.
    
    3 0
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    October 9, 2023 7:18pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Not in young doctors. You need to compare like with like, If you actually read the article you’ll realise why it is extremely unusual. Like getting struck with lightning, but it is happening every week.
    
    0 0
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    October 10, 2023 7:05am
- MCōs
  
  “Turbo cancer”
  Never heard of that before . . . . .
  
  1 0
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  October 9, 2023 8:14pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Me neither until the covid jabs came along. Just a coincidence of course.
    
    1 0
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    October 10, 2023 7:06am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Here’s the term’s use over time via Goggle.
    
    0 0
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    October 10, 2023 8:12am
Maggie Pie

TODAYS AUCKLAND R.E. UPDATE
——————————————-

Here’s what FHB’s can expect for around the $1.5 mill mark…..

https://oneroof.co.nz/news/screaming-and-shouting-as-ex-state-house-sells-for-1-35m-44386

LOL!!!
5 1
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October 9, 2023 3:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Now we have Grant Robertson acting the goat. A Govt shutdown? That means nothing gets done? Well what have Labour actually done?
Nothing more than Roberson wanting NZF over and above Hipkins. Is Hiplins about to walk away like Ardern did??

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/us-style-govt-shutdowns-labour-lashes-out-at-act-s-threat-to-enter-confidence-only-deal-with-nats-nz-first/ar-AA1hTkhd?
7 2
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October 9, 2023 4:22pm
Tauhei Notts

We all like attending a funny shit fight.
I think the funniest one will be setting the RNZ National budget in 2024.
“Here’s my haemorrhoids. Now start licking.”
8 0
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October 9, 2023 4:43pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Give each MP discretion over where to spend 0.8% of entire govt media budget – including all direct support as well as advertising and Maori media.
  
  That would soon cull the left wing bias in media as 90% of NZ media would be reliant on support from just 45% of MPs, while right leaning media would flourish with increased income.
  
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  October 9, 2023 5:24pm
PaulP

With the Act candidate passing away, requiring a by-election and the number of seats as a result increasung to 121, does this help National assuming they pick up the electorate seat as a result of the by-election?

I assume it does help as sounds like they don’t lose a list MP but gain an extra MP to effectively get an overhang.

“When the by-election is held in Port Waikato and an electorate MP is elected, it will increase the size of Parliament to 121 seats,” said Chief Electoral Officer Karl Le Quesne.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/election-2023-act-candidate-neil-christensen-dies/N2Z4P5MVKBAY5DJ7PDWLW27Y24/
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October 9, 2023 4:58pm
nova

Sad news with the death of the ACT candidate in Port Waikato. But potentially big news for the election, as it will increase the size of parliament to at least 121 MPs. According to the electoral commission, the electorate vote for that seat will be ignored on the night and a by-election held, but also that an extra list seat will be allocated on the night, to elect 120 MPs on the night. And once the by-election is held there will be 121 MPs. I don’t like this approach personally, and it could create an interesting situation where the by-election determines the election.

https://elections.nz/media-and-news/2023/voting-continues-for-the-port-waikato-electorate/
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October 9, 2023 5:06pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  It was so sad to read of the death of Neil Christensen. I had the pleasure of hearing him speak on The Platform a few weeks ago. New Zealand’s specialist in his chosen narrow field. The only veterinary surgeon specialising in poultry. He had sound political views and a delightful sense of humour. He joked that if Act got to 30% and he got in, off the list, his wife might leave him.
  He sounded like the sort of bloke I would want to join for a beer or four.
  
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  October 9, 2023 7:09pm
Maggie Pie

Heres something i couldnt ansa…..

One of the girls from tennis was wondering wot would happen if David lost the Epsom seat to Nat Paul Goldsmith?
TBH its alway been bloo before ad Prue was thinkig of voting for him this time.
4 2
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October 9, 2023 6:54pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  As long as they got over 5% they would be back in.
  
  2 0
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  October 9, 2023 8:38pm
Truman lodge

Chippy will be the PM this Sunday morning after a surprise victory with polls being out by a decent margin. The difference is Te Pati Maori won 5 seats.

It is going to Happen the fix is in. If I am wrong I will banish myself from this blog but if I am correct I demand a weekly guest slot on KB

Joking but would that be the call of the century.
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October 10, 2023 7:48pm

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