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October 18, 2023 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 October 2023

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Vinicius

Here is a list from Wikipedia of all public sector organisations in New Zealand.

Is there anyone here with hand on heart can honestly say we need all of these? Which of these should either be shut down or merged with another government department.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_sector_organisations_in_New_Zealand
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October 18, 2023 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  No wonder this Country is broke! Imagine the unemployment numbers if this was all reduced by 60% or more.
  BTW, I don’t see a Ministry for Men. That is sexist!
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:28am
  - Vinicius
    
    Re a Ministry for Men. Does the IRD count who collects money from hardworking Kiwi’s to fund the governments cranky ideas?
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:15am
  - Biscuit
    
    Steve, Chippie couldn’t even define a ‘woman’ even though, allegedly, he has slept with at least two of them.
    
    He’d probably need a Ministry for Sex Determination to quantify what a ‘man’ is…
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:01pm
- cmm
  
  Then there are still dozens, if not hundreds, of taxpayer funded NGOs each with huge budgets.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:39am
- RoboRob
  
  Last time I looked there were almost 300.
  
  I would start be removing any department whos role is to provide statements / advocacy. I am thinking all of the likes of Womans affairs, Ministry for Ethnic Communities, Whaikaha – Ministry of Disabled People, race relations, Children etc
  
  Most of these have vast staff and expenses and their role is to advocate for a group and their only ‘power’ is to make public comments. The various communities would be equally served by non tax payer funded advocacy groups.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:06am
- virtualmark
  
  *This* is how you cut the public sector budget … by cutting out low-value organisations. Basically a 2020’s quango hunt.
  
  If I were the Minister of Finance I’m sure I could trim at least $5b off the Govt’s annual costs. Yes, there’d be a bit of screaming from narrow interest groups. But I’m sure the majority of voters would rather than $5b pa was put towards health, education and tax cuts.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:22am
- Sacha
  
  There will be many Public Servants wearing several hats.
  It would be interesting if there was a series of articles looking into how many people are ’employed’ in each organisation and the crossover in personnel.
  
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  October 18, 2023 12:14pm
  - cmm
    
    A good 50% of government hats could be done away with and productivity could improve.
    
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    October 18, 2023 3:13pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Here’s the official list – https://www.govt.nz/organisations/
  
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  October 18, 2023 6:30pm
Warren

Andrew Little reveals why he is leaving Politics.
This poor excuse for a human being says the Luxon led Coalition will take New Zealand back years because they have not got a Minister that can press on with the work that has already been done by Sir Doug Graham and Chris Finlayson.
This from a ex Minister that helped fuck our Health System, divided the Country on Pike River, and really did more harm than good in New Zealand Politics with that going back to his senior positions in the Trade Unions.
Like everything he has touched has turned to shit and you only have to look at former Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to see, who left a sinking ship to selfishly feather her own nest.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/10/18/andrew-little-reveals-why-hes-quitting-politics/
Can anyone suggest something that Andrew Little has made better for New Zealander’s.
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October 18, 2023 8:01am
- Matt Long
  
  How many Treaty settlements by Little or Labour in 6 years? Zero if I recall.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:10am
  - Nickc2
    
    I suggest achieving no Treaty Settlements is a success in itself!
    Let’s face it, there’s nothing in the genuine or even fake Treaty that stipulates Maori are to be afforded bucket loads of taxpayer’s money from time to time for imaginary misdeeds by non-Maori. Neither are Top Ups of money just because . . . . . .
    Hopefully, the Treaty Gravy has been taken off the stove now the adults are in charge.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:54am
  - Mark Hanley
    
    As per my KB prediction….. The Labour hierarchy are off like robbers dogs to enjoy their embezzled taxpayer cash.
    
    Andrew Little spent hundreds of millions on the failed pike River re entry and the failed Maori health authority.
    
    Taxpayers got ZERO RETURN on Little’s projects.
    
    So who got our hundreds of millions of dollars for Producing nothing?
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:04am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      10% for the big guy? That’s how Joe Biden works.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:40am
- cmm
  
  The little worm is leaving because his part of the trough is running empty,
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:40am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Never forget the bitter nasty angry Little divided he would simply give one of the tribes an extra couple of billion as he seen the full snd final settlement done and signed by Nats was not fair
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:42am
- Observer of Life
  
  Warren: By leaving politics he makes the country better.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:10am
- tedbear
  
  From the 1news link..
  Little says “Labour stands for the fundamental values of millions of New Zealanders: opportunities for the many not just the few, and respect for all people and communities.”
  
  I’ve never heard such a load of crap.
  Labour 2017-2023 has never stood for or had any respect for the millions of New Zealanders. The only ones they were interested in doing things for are the maoris.
  The aftermath of the cyclone being a prime example.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:59am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Sorry, but win the final votes are tallied, Labour will have received less than 1million votes at the 2023 election. So, they don’t stand for the values of millions of New Zealanders!
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:01pm
- crikey
  
  Warren: His departure.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:59am
- Paulus
  
  Sir Andrew will go back to the Miner’s Union especially after the Pike River ones for which he was Union boss.
  
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  October 18, 2023 2:08pm
Opie

Canadian politician giving it to a left wing journalist.

This is exactly how biased media should be treated…

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1714290806335689210
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October 18, 2023 8:01am
- Local Miller
  
  That’s so good, for every generalization and vague innuendo the jerno brought up he asked for specifics, and the poor jerno was left stuttering. Took the wind out of his useless sails.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:12am
- Random T Person
  
  I’ve watched a lot of Pierre Poilievre. Man is a legend, and hopefully Canada’s next PM.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “taking a page out of Donald Trump’s book”
    Yes he is. Making leftie journalists talk sense instead of waffle.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:45am
    - Jack5
      
      He’s also bringing inflation down to the root cause: the money supply.
      
      Who in New Zealand is talking about the blow-out in the money supply under Labour? The blow-out from “printing” tens of billions of dollars through bond issues?
      
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      October 18, 2023 1:27pm
- lifesgood
  
  Absolutely delicious. Master class in how to handle those weasely left wing journalists. That guy will never want to interview Poilievre again.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:15am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jesus Christ, why can’t we have common sense Politicians like him in NZ?
  A representative of the people. He works for them.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:41am
- rouppe
  
  Well… The “interviewer” was a clown. He asked questions like a 12 year old
  
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  October 18, 2023 12:38pm
  - 7kiwi11
    
    He couldn’t look Pierre Poilievre in the eye either! Kept muttering his questions to the ground.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Some 12 year olds ask different questions than they ask aged 25 to 40.
    After their brains get turned into socialist mash!
    
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    October 18, 2023 7:04pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Poilievre, leader of the Opposition in Canada. He’s made some epic take downs of Trudeau in the Canadian Parliament. I reckon he’s taken notes from Jordan Peterson. “What specifically?” “Who has said that?”, “Which people are you referring to?” “What does that mean?” etc etc. He’s a clever bugger.
  
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  October 18, 2023 1:15pm
Pavel

I just read an old article about when Jacinda resigned. She said she “didn’t have enough in the tank” to carry on and wanted to spend time with her young daughter and her boyfriend as being prime minister had deprived her of time for these things. So if I hadn’t read a news article since I guess I can take it that she is somewhere in NZ taking her daughter to playgroup and out fishing with Clarke and spending quality time with her young family yeah?
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October 18, 2023 8:06am
- NothingLeft
  
  Weird that they cancelled her royal wedding 3 years back, and haven’t done it since. So just a cynical PR event then?
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:36am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ardern’s daughter is now a school girl.
  
  Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she is looking forward to celebrating her daughter’s fifth birthday and first day of school this year after shocking the country and resigning today.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/jacinda-ardern-resigns-pm-looks-forward-to-being-there-when-daughter-neve-starts-school/TQNG6ZI5SVFUPJFGAPGFMWQCOA/
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    6 minutes of word soup waffle. Nothing changes.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:49am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Nope. We are in New York spreading bullshit – on the way to United Nations.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:43am
- Che Guava
  
  The latest reports indicate that she is still inducing vomit with every utterance:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeY2RVN5f5E
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:46am
- Paulus
  
  Understand she in Boston Massachusetts currently.
  
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  October 18, 2023 2:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She is not here in NZ. There is a reason why to not show her face here.
    
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    October 18, 2023 7:07pm
Matt Long

Technical question for the experts, how do you find posts in GB from say 18 months ago that contained election predictions?
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October 18, 2023 8:10am
- Blog-aholic
  
  You could search by keywords.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:13am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Archives, right at the bottom left of this page.
  Then use ‘find’ Ctrl/F and type in what to find.
  Oh, I’m not an expert LOL.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:22am
  - Matt Long
    
    Thanks Steve
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:41am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Its amusing watching the Left Australian media thrashing around over the loss of The Voice referendum. They are now blaming the uneducated pointing out that polling analysis shows that voters with a Bachelors degree or higher were far more likely to vote Yes. The ACT was the only place where the Yes vote succeded. Like our Wellington its full of civil servants and other Elites ruling over the peasants.
  It is encouraging that in Aussie NZ and other countries the peasants are revolting and using their voting power to slap the Elites back in their boxes where they belong. Long may it continue.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:40am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    As Ive seen here with the left wing commentators, if people vote against what those folk think is right then everyone else is an idiot. Introspection and consideration of an alternate viewpoint is anathema to these people.
    
    Also noticeable – lefty’s now name calling Luxon. Didnt take long for the caring facade to crumble. What a pleasant bunch they are.
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:48am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      And the cheek of Jessica not so much McKay to say we are the 4th estate and you have to tell us about negotiations, well she can wait another 6 years as we did to get her to do her bloody job properly
      
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      October 18, 2023 9:49am
      - crikey
        
        G…: Not the 4th estate but the 5th column.
        
        [A fifth column is any group of people who undermine a larger group or nation from within.]
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:04am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘The term dates from the Spanish Civil War, when General Mola, leading four columns of troops towards Madrid, declared that he had a fifth column inside the city.’
        
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        October 18, 2023 12:29pm
      - NothingLeft
        
        and the estates were from the french revolution; 1st being church, 2nd nobility 3rd common folk.
        
        4th, press, was appended later.
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:22pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        More than 6 years G.
        Wonder about her age in 15 years and if she is still spreading leftist propaganda?
        
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        October 18, 2023 7:12pm
    - mawm
      
      hmmokrightitis – “the Elites”…..
      
      They are not elite in any sense whatsoever other than in their own minds.
      
      These university “academics” that are criticising others are in sheltered employment simply because usually they cannot make in the commercial world.
      
      The so-called Hollywood “elites” are usually poor actors whose careers are made for them on the cutting floor. Very few of them would be able to perform night after night in the West End to any degree of ability that good actors such as Laurence Olivier or Dame Judy Bench have. None of the modern crew are anywhere near elite, just overpaid and worshipped by people with simple minds with little else to occupy their time.
      
      The same with modern music artists.
      
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      October 18, 2023 6:28pm
  - redeye
    
    The useful idiot Waleed Aly also claimed that educated voters voted Yes and the less so No.
    I’d like to know how this polling analysis works. The electoral commision doesn’t keep each voters education and academic achievements. Or anything other than the identifying data.
    I suspect it’s based on location. Is a country voter less educated than an inner suburban one? Cause I have met some really dumb city folk.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:12am
  - edhunter
    
    Here’s a link I posted yesterday:
    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8388603/states-and-territories-forge-ahead-with-reconciliation/
    Basically every state and territory is forging ahead with their own version of the voice despite the federal NO vote. It problably wont shock anyone to hear that every state & territory bar one is in the hands of Labour governments.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:46am
- Matt Long
  
  Couldn’t find my election predictions from last month, but here is the moment Luxon and Seymour gifted Winston the balance of power again.
  Matt Long FEBRUARY 11, 2022 10:45AM
  Agree, Luxon actively attemps to discredit the protesters by saying their message is confused and drawing attention to Trump flags etc., without even meeting with the protesters.
  It’s not as though we’re asking opposition politicians to perform fellatio or cunninglingus on the protesters like Ardern did with the climate change protesters. Just meet with them and register their concerns, and difuse the anger.
  Luxon and Seymour have shown their true colours as enemies of freedom, and given Winston a foot in the door of parliament, they are idiots.
  
  Thumb up 33 Thumb down 7
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:41am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The refusal to even acknowledge the hugely negative impacts of covid policies on so many innocent people was clearly predicted to give Peters the opportunity to get back.
    Apparently National and Act were more concerned about the implications of their own involvement in this being highlighted than having to deal with Peters.
    
    It will be interesting to see if we now get the proper inquiry into the covid response that is so badly needed to help this country to start moving on.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:53am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Clan
      
      I am hoping for some disgruntled ex labour MPs to come forward and tell the country what was going on behind the scenes .
      
      It will take only one brave person to open the floodgates and unleash justice upon these traitorous bastards.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:14am
      - mawm
        
        I’m sure it was all done at Cabinet level.
        
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        October 18, 2023 6:31pm
  - leoj
    
    Your post should be sent to both Luxon and Seymour.
    
    They blew it – BIG TIME.
    
    Traitors to personal freedom. In lock step with Labour/Greens.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:56pm
- Ghost
  
  You could try Google advanced search, then on the results put a time frame
  
  https://www.google.co.nz/advanced_search
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:46am
- rouppe
  
  There is a google search feature to concentrate the search on a site.
  
  So you enter your search terms (in one of the several ways google allows) and follow it with
  site:kiwiblog.co.nz
  
  A “manual” way to do it is to use google advanced search page https://www.google.com/advanced_search
  which when you run it will show you the “shortcut”.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:48am
  - Matt Long
    
    Thanks rouppe.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:07pm
Benedict Yu

These quotes from Andrew Little are worth a read. Because it illustrates perfectly that these guys have no understanding of why they were smashed.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/500377/senior-labour-mp-andrew-little-announces-he-will-retire-from-politics

He describes the Labour Party as “the nation building party of the political system”. He explains that he is proud of his achievements. He cites Pike River 🤯 and the Health system reforms 🤯 as examples.

He then explains that National does not understand the Treaty, and that the Treaty as a ‘partnership’ is grounded in “jurisprudence”.

I only discovered this morning that Andrew Little was jumping ship. I have been having a break from New Zealand media. Anyway he is departing apparantly delusional and angry as ever.
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October 18, 2023 8:16am
- ClanMcleod
  
  He won’t be missed and like Ardern, he won’t be remembered for anything other than complete failure.
  He has that to live with for the rest of his life.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:20am
  - Paulus
    
    And he was the Union Leader for the Pike River men !
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:27am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I had to laugh when Andrew Little says that the incoming Government would be less bad if Chris Finlayson was still there. Says a lot. 🙂
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:07am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Proud of Pike River? This was the guy that was General Secretary of the EPMU. The organisation representing workers that ignored the workers concerns around safety at the mine. So po-leeeeeeze! And on “National does not understand”. Of course not Angry, after all, only Labour politicians truly understand anything. Even though the current bunch (including him) are the most inept in NZ .history.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:21am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Why do the families that lost relatives in Pike River not see that. I can still not understand why the families tend to support Andrew Little and see National as being the big bad wolf.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:23am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I can still not understand why the families tend to support Andrew Little and see National as being the big bad wolf.
      
      They need someone to blame other than their own men who continued to work in a dangerous, dodgy mine.
      
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      October 18, 2023 9:46am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Mw
        What a distasteful comment. You should be ashamed of yourself .
        
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        October 18, 2023 10:18am
      - crikey
        
        Maggie: “ They need someone to blame other than their own men who continued to work in a dangerous, dodgy mine” and who chose to override safety warnings. They were not ordered to go into the mine.
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:09am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Thanls for stating the obvios Maggy.
        
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        October 18, 2023 12:40pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You should be ashamed of yourself .
        
        Oh Dear, Did I misunderstand some of the conclusions of the Royal Commission on the Pike River Coal Mine Tragedy?
        
        https://pikeriver.royalcommission.govt.nz/vwluResources/Final-Report-Volume-Two/$file/ReportVol2-whole.pdf
        
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        October 18, 2023 1:11pm
      - Ghost
        
        Someone should change their name to hardlyeverrightandfullofit
        
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        October 18, 2023 1:13pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Spot on Maggy. There was more than one complaint about safety, and EPMU were aware. And claimed the mine was safe. I don’t recall seeing the organisation who claimed they would get all their men home safely each night (it was on their website before, and for some time after, Pike River) have any court cases against them, even though they took the miners money to ensure their working conditions were reasonable. Unions, parasites for a long, long time.
        
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        October 18, 2023 1:20pm
      - gravedodger
        
        Well said Maggy , and to imalwaysright on this you could not be more wrong.
        The mine was a “when” not “if” death trap and as Maggy pointed out Little was the Union rep who stated just prior to the big bang he had no concerns about safety (unable to find links, how strange).
        
        Little and the [Mod – use correct names please, thank you] used the disaster for political advantage, remember they were going to be “First” back into the bloody mine?
        
        The Coal being sought is very Gassy and Pike was not the first on the coast to “blow”!
        Brunner 65 dead, Dobson 9 dead, Strongman 19 dead and Pike 29 dead.
        Almost every design fault possible was installed there, often to satisfy a bunch of Greenies so incompetent they managed to freeze to death some snails they “Saved”, over an Xmas break when the storage was set too cold.
        
        The Access tunnel rose up hill preventing methane from seeping out,
        The extraction fan and controls were located within the Mine,
        Gas detectors were covered up to prevent interruptions to production,
        There was no alternative access to allow escape or rescue,
        The “Mine Safety Manager” was incompetent and culpable
        How the Hell Little escapes any responsibility is an exhibit for the teflon factory, board room.
        
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        October 18, 2023 1:27pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        They need someone to blame other than their own men who continued to work in a dangerous, dodgy mine.
        
        And the experts told National there was nothing to be gained by going back in and to seal it.
        
        It was Little’s job to create a sideshow to roll out to boost polls in the area. He used the families grief as a marketing tool.
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:23pm
    - RoboRob
      
      There is also the question about what this never ending train of tax payer funded Pike river mine investigation teams actually plans to achieve.
      
      They spent mega bucks to get the bodies back, when they knew with almost 100% certainty the bodies were either ash or un retrievable.
      
      Then it was go back in to get evidence. Evidence to do what? The guy that might have been charged isn’t in the country and was already given a deal from police where he would not be charged.
      
      So we have police doing ‘stuff’ and millions of $ a year to a team of ‘experts’ that are wanting to achieve what exactly?
      
      Labour / NZF selfishly used pike as a vote grabber and have spend the last 6yrs spending a lot of money to achieve absolutely nothing. Wait for the media attacks when NACT look to close the team down (again).
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:23am
      - Kiwiguy
        
        Yes, it was one of Winston’s promises that he “Would be the first into the mine” if elected.
        Turns out we misheard him.
        He really said “First into the wine”
        Which makes much more sense coming from Winston.
        //
        
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        October 18, 2023 12:41pm
    - Flossie
      
      Family who lived in West Coast around the time did say a lot of people shared the sentiment that the workers themselves should have taken responsibility – they knew it was unsafe. However family were not alone either in their literal fear of saying such things out loud.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:53am
      - KH
        
        They had to search the workers before entry. The workers were always trying to sneak cigs and lighters into a gassy mine.
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:13am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        There was talk of gas sensors being disabled. Management would have to have known this.
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:23am
- Matt Long
  
  Apparently he was asked if he left health in better shape than he found it and replied we definitely put more ” investment” into health. 🤡🤡🤡
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe that was ‘Maori Health.’ The normal Health system is a shambles.
    Every time Labour get in they do the same.
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:36am
    - rouppe
      
      What does Maori Health Authority do?
      
      Sure as shit a Maori that goes to the GP, or the hospital has the cost taken out of Health NZ, which now has only 70% of the funding.
      
      The budget in the MHA is not being spent on paying for Maori health services.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:36am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Race takes precedence.
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:26am
      - artemisia
        
        National is apparently going to devolve MHA funds to iwi. Could work if there are clear contracted outcomes, including payment where treatment is provided in the public system.
        
        Doubt either of those will happen. In part because so many of the MH Providers are in the ‘soft’ sector. Here is the list, some areas have no providers. Many have long lists of services offered. Just what services taxpayer funding goes to will be very interesting to see, along with the outcomes of course.
        
        https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/services-and-support/health-care-services/maori-health-provider-directory
        
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        October 18, 2023 3:15pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Not just general health, what about the $1.9billion that was meant to be spent on Mental health Facilities and staff?
      
      or
      
      Dunedin Hospital anyone!!!
      
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      October 18, 2023 12:11pm
  - Scooter
    
    That’s Labour’s only achievement in 6 years, throwing money at stuff but with little or no positive outcome.
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:44am
    - greybeard
      
      Ginny Andersen said the same thing this morning, when Hosking was talking to her and Mark Mitchell.
      Proud of spending money but there were no outcomes.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:29am
      - Beach Haven expat
        
        I usually enjoy her on that segment, despite fundamentally disagreeing with her views. This morning though I thought she showed more of Labour’s true colours ala O’Connor the day before.
        Asked about sitting down with Mark Mitchell to aid a smooth handover for policing, she claimed that didn’t happen. Then, when MM very calmly pointed out that it did and he had done so in 2017, she snapped with something along the lines of: “Well Mark knows everything so we don’t need to do it.”
        Very poor, although surprised, not surprised
        
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        October 18, 2023 8:50pm
    - Countrygirl
      
      I think Oranga Tamariki is along the same lines. Put it in the hands of Maori, give bucket loads of money for a worse outcome.
      
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      October 19, 2023 10:38am
  - Ruawai
    
    More investment doesn’t always equate to better heath outcomes. You can throw money in the wrong places and not improve health.
    
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    October 18, 2023 2:16pm
  - rouppe
    
    That’s like saying “throwing money out the window of a moving car is investing in roads”
    
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    October 18, 2023 3:26pm
- My-Gumboot
  
  Along with this, Derek Cheng has an article in the Herald – Anatomy of Labour’s collapse, from unprecedented support to devastating loss in three years-
  And explain the loss he outlines a number of reason around that, lockdowns, inflation etc.
  But the kicker is…Russian Propaganda. According to Cheng – “New Zealanders were fed and soaked up Russian-seeded fake news about Covid-19. According to a major Microsoft report, New Zealanders consumed Russian propaganda at a level 30 per cent higher than Australia and the United States, which fed into the sentiment that saw protesters occupying Parliament in February 2022.”
  Yeah that’s it Labour goes down the gurgler because of Russian disinformation.
  
  Nothing about just not being smart enough to deliver any results.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/anatomy-of-labours-collapse-how-labour-went-from-unprecedented-support-to-devastating-loss-in-three-years/3HXQOIYATFEUZNMTVCJUFVUD4Q/
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:27am
  - Clown
    
    Ahh the good old rhetoric of blaming Russia for everything. Covid 19? Russian propaganda. Cows in NZ not giving enough milk? Putin’s conspiracy. Someone in south Auckland crapped themselves? Obviously Russian government plot. God forbid people take responsibility for their actions instead of blaming some faraway country for their alleged misfortunes – not reading articles published on extremist government supported ‘news’ platforms like Herald or Stuff would be a great start
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:10am
  - I remember when
    
    Labour’s 2020 Election win was based on an illusion with a fairy tale princess.
    The failure of our high-profile media presenters to expose their weaknesses should result in them losing their positions.
    Despite the failure of the media, the general public seem to have become aware of the problems and voted, or not voted, accordingly.
    The media should be carefully considering these facts and their future.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:38am
    - Gravelroad
      
      They should be – but they won’t.
      Not unless the free money tap is turned off.
      You only had to see the TV1and 3 election night coverage to see how out of control and up themselves these celebrity commentators are.
      It was all about them – yelling out stupid comments, dancing round, sharing “in” jokes.
      It was an embarrassment, unprofessional and one big fat yawn.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:21am
      - RoboRob
        
        Heard a media clip of them attacking Luxon (note no honeymoon period for the right), the guy was saying ‘we are the 4th estate, you must give us respect and not treat us this way’ (or words to that effect).
        
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        October 18, 2023 10:26am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        RobboRob
        
        That was Jessica Much McKay, Luxon said we will be doing negotiations differently
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:48am
      - goNZ1
        
        Jessica Not Much McKay is pining for her friend Aderns pressers ( ”You first Jessica ,then Tova”) because now she just has to wait in line for info
        
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        October 18, 2023 5:19pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Jesus these guys are thick or mendacious. They actually believe that it is a vast nefarious evil-empire conspiracy when all the evidence reveals actual conspiracies amongst the Elite medial QUANGO medical organizations and Big Pharma. (lying about origins of Covid and bullshitting about vaccine and mask effectiveness and colluding to trash Nuremberg code and force people to take low benefit vaccines to pump up Big Pharma earnings)
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:43am
  - cmm
    
    As I posted elsewhere, we should really remove 2020 as a Covid fear porn anomaly with us all being fed the line by everyone that Cindy was single-handedly saving all our lives and NZ was performing better than everyone else because of Cindy (and her sidekicks).
    
    So let’s wipe away 2020 and compare 2023 to 2017 then the Labour losses were not that much.
    
    If we go the further step of comparing 2023 to how Labour was polling with Andy in charge (ie. before the Cindy rebranding), then the results were about the same: around 26%.
    
    Therefore it would be more accurate to see this as a Cindy/Covid bump that went away rather than a true drop.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:48am
    - RoboRob
      
      Totally agree. If we look further we can see Labour has been a total failure since the end of Helen. The only reason they got into power was an angry little man called Winston Peters getting UTU on Bill English in 2017. COVID was an anomaly, which was always obvious when MMP returned a single party government. Labour are new back where they deserve.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:30am
      - goNZ1
        
        speaking of Helen, she seems quiet after all the ”help” to Labour campaign?
        
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        October 18, 2023 5:20pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Has Derek Cheng been chatting with Hillary Clinton?
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Someone needs to tell him the Treaty is a “Treaty” and not a partnership.
  National does not understand the Treaty but he never mentions what they don’t understand. He never elaborated at all. Full of himself! Ever wonder why some people don’t like you Little?
  
  “Labour stands for the fundamental values of millions of New Zealanders: a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work, opportunities for the many not just the few, and respect for all people and communities.”
  So when does this fair day’s work start Mr Dolittle?
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:34am
- Notsofast
  
  He did enact the criminal cases review commission that Amy Adams and Judith Collins said was not needed because Arthur Thomas, Teina Pora, Rex Haig, Allan Hall and so on all got what they presumably deserved. There are other names I wont bother with due to the lack of knowledge on this board.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:35am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    You mean you won’t bother with Mark Lundy any more?
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:59am
    - Notsofast
      
      Not much point around here but his case is proceeding through the commission.
      
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      October 18, 2023 9:22am
- David Garrett
  
  Bene: Little is showing his ignorance. Up until 1987 – when Geoffrey the Goose Palmer invited them to come up with some “principles” of the treaty, and the then Court of Appeal obliged – all the “jurisprudence” was that the treaty was, as it was described in a case in 1875, “a legal nullity”. That conclusion was reached in a number of subsequent cases over the next 100 years or so.
  
  Little probably has no idea what the word “jurisprudence” actually means. What he is referring to is caselaw over the past 30 odd years since 1987. That is not “jurisprudence” which means the philosophy of the law generally, not some arcane branch of it.
  
  As I said in a comment on GD yesterday, he wouldn’t last six months in a law firm – unless it’s one run by Presland or some other Labour arse licker, and he gets given a very undemanding budget.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:39am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Presland wouldnt take him on – theres only so much conveyancing needed these days 😛
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:52am
- kowtow
  
  Nation building my arse.
  
  The New Plymouth boy who could never win his home seat .
  Then went on to collaborate in smashing the highest earning industry in the province . An industry that’s so crucial to national wealth and sovereignty .
  
  Likewise the race division that Labour has foisted on this country since the ’70’s yet another highly destructive element to any notion of “nation building” .
  
  Like Helen Clark , yet another example of the worst of the bourgeoisie leading a so called working class movement.
  
  Good riddance.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:41am
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    “Like Helen Clark …”
    
    No, not at all like Helen Clark. Auntie Helen, for all her faults, was shrewd and highly intelligent, and clear-eyed about Te Paati Maaori (“wreckers and haters”). And you’ve gotta love her assessment of John Campbell (“sanctimonious little creep”). And unlike John Key, she understood that UNDRIP was incompatible with NZ democracy.
    
    Whereas Angry Andy … I’m struggling to find any positives at all.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:15am
    - David Garrett
      
      Pope: I agree with all of that…particularly that Clark clearly saw the dangers of the UNDRIP. Although others have been much harsher, I like to believe Key’s willingness to sign up to it was because of simple naivety on his part. Unlike Clark, he had never had to deal wily Maori or treaty issues.
      
      I also believe her Foreshore and Seabed Act – 0nly necessary because an activist Court of Appeal undid 60 years of caselaw – was much better than the National government’s Act which replaced it. Like the Waitangi Tribunal, that is going to come back and bite us savagely in the arse for years to come as claims of “customary right” wend their way through the courts.
      
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      October 18, 2023 9:38am
    - kowtow
      
      Your Holiness , that may well be but my comment about the worst of the middle classes leading the proletariate still stands.
      
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      October 18, 2023 12:38pm
- Surely Knott
  
  This morning they report “Surgical waiting lists soared during the Covid-19 pandemic as most elective surgeries were put on hold.”
  
  People are dying in NZ due to delayed surgery and not just elective. Yesterday it was some poor guy waiting for Bowel Cancer surgery.
  
  Weren’t we told the first lockdown was “to prevent the health system being overwhelmed.” They have spent billions and yet added no capacity.
  
  Excess deaths skyrocketing in 2023.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:51am
  - cmm
    
    It wasn’t just surgery. All outpatient services (eg. testing and specialist consultations) were shut down too.
    
    Many people (likely thousands) had vital testing/screening cancelled and rescheduled many months later. I was one of them.
    
    For me it didn’t matter much (other than having to be on some really shitty drugs for an extra 3 or 4 months). For others (eg. people who had follow up cancer screening delayed) there were far more serious consequences – including premature death.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:59am
- lastmanstanding
  
  FFS. The Treaty was the result of the Maori Chiefs recognising they were committing genocide against each other plus the threat of the French who had occupied Akaroa deciding to “acquire” the country as they had with some Pacific Islands. They knew the Brits were a better deal. The Brits offered them protection from each other and the French.
  That was the deal. In return the Maori agreed the Brits would govern the country. It was a simple Treaty based on simple requirements on each side.
  As with all Treaties they are of a time and out live themselves. They become irrelevant over time as has this Treaty. The conditions at the time the Treaty was signed are not the conditions now. Maori are over represented in our Partliament. Using the Lefts proportionality that they love so much Maori should have now more than 20 seats. Im not sure of the numbers post election but IIRC the previous number was 25.
  In addition the reasons for establishing the Maori seats no longer exist. They are a 19th Centry construct and no longer valid in the 21th Century. There are no logical reason for their existence.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:04am
  - Ruahine
    
    The French still had slavery. The British had abolished years before even in colonies. Maori knew that. Many had travelled. The Americans also had slavery at this time.
    Just a historical footnote.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:13am
    - David Garrett
      
      Ruahine: Quite so. And if the Frogs had taken over NZ we would almost certainly still be a French colony with little autonomy, just like Tahiti and New Caledonia.
      
      The Maori did extremely well out of British colonization.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:10am
      - KiWombat
        
        Not to forget food. Many NZ species had been hunted to extinction, and they were probably getting sick of the taste of fish and greens three meals a day. I can only imagine that the ship carrying goats and cattle was welcomed with open arms !!
        
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        October 18, 2023 10:45am
      - cmm
        
        KiW: Don’t forget the dogs.
        
        The French do pretty well feeding their colonies as they are considered part of France.
        
        I heard that French Guiana gets two 747s a week supplying tasty French morsels (baked goods, cheese etc).
        
        Perhaps the Maori would have got a taste for snails and wiped those out too?
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:13am
      - Greenbanana
        
        The mind boggles to think how we would have ended up if the Romans had arrived !!
        
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        October 18, 2023 3:31pm
  - kowtow
    
    The Crown wasn’t that interested in getting involved here .They’d already given responsibility to their reps in NSW for matters NZ.
    
    The real energising factor was the New Zealand Co actively moving to buy land here .
    
    The Crown realised they’d have competition and wasn’t prepared to be gazumped by the Wakefield brothers and their brokers in London . That’s the basis for Article 2 .
    
    Essentially the treaty is a sovereignty and real estate backgrounder .
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:26am
    - David Garrett
      
      kowtow: I well remember lectures on the “treaty” from Prof. Philip Joseph, the pre-eminent expert in Public Law matters in NZ, and the writer of the text book.
      
      He said then: “If the treaty was anything, it was a treaty of cession”
      
      When I last talked to him a few years ago he maintained that that was still the case, but that NZ Maori Council v. AG in 1987, and the many cases that followed it, gave it a de jure (in law) status that was essentially political in nature rather than legal, but the effect is the same.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:23am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘Cession’ I take it to mean what Article 1 ‘s about and sovereignty becoming the Crown’s ?
        
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        October 18, 2023 12:46pm
  - Littletramp
    
    The way they now want us to identify maori, as just having a single maori ancestor somewhere in your ancestry, I am sure there are many “closet” maori in parliament.
    If they identified parliament proportionality by this measure, it would blow their underrepresented narrative out the window.
    Time to draw a line in the sand, move forward and legislate toward 2 types/classes of citizens – Kiwi’s and visitors.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:47am
    - cmm
      
      I doubt there are many closet Maori.
      
      There are so many benefits to being a Maori that if you had one drop of blood you’d be crowing it from the roof tops.
      
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      October 18, 2023 11:18am
  - imalwaysright
    
    To paraphrase Shane Jones on the Platform this morning :
    
    ” we must immediately stop injecting the poison of the treaty into the bloodstream of New Zealand”
    
    (To my best recollection )
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:51am
  - KH
    
    The French were not colonising. They had had a warship in Akaroa for many years to support / supervise whaling ships. Other nations did too.
    At any time the French could have planted their flag. They didn’t.
    One of their navy men decided to bring in french folk to settle. They gathered an unsuitable bunch and did the small settlement – which almost starved. No more than that.
    French intention to claim NZ a myth.
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:26am
- graham
  
  Kate Hawkesby had Peter Dunne on yesterday morning, and talked about why they were rejected. Mr Dunne summed it up succinctly as Labour’s attitude becoming more and more one of:
  
  “We know what we’re doing and the rest of you are wrong.”
  
  Those were his exact words. He went on to say that Labour really had to go back and listen to what people are actually saying.
  
  Sums up Labour – and the Greens for that matter – perfectly, doesn’t it?
  “We know what we’re doing and the rest of you are wrong.“
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:13am
  - I remember when
    
    Greg O’Connor being interview on The Platform gives a fairly honest summary of the election result.
    Much more interesting than I expected.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:51am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  They refused to listen, leaders smeared sectors of society, they divided on race, and they over played the lies that was covid
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:51am
Frank the tank

Where is Michael Wood – he presided over the worst electorate result for Labour on the night and not a peep. Special deal with the feckless to not ‘go there’?
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October 18, 2023 8:27am
- Peter Lane
  
  Just for you Frank…
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/tidying-up-the-vege-garden-ousted-mt-roskill-mp-michael-wood-breaks-his-silence-on-losing-safe-labour-seat/X33N7KUKFRD4HI3LZKIXDKCCQY/
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:01am
  - RoboRob
    
    “The team this year ran our best campaign ever and the result is no reflection on their endeavours. In the end, we faced an extraordinary local swing of 23.5 per cent on the Party Vote from Labour to National – a 10 per cent swing is usually considered ‘landslide’ territory. We have never faced these conditions before in Mt Roskill and more generally across Auckland.
    
    They just dont get it. People rejected them for their incompetance and their policies. It wasn’t about trends and personalities or whatever other excuse they want to come up with.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:36am
    - cmm
      
      ” an extraordinary local swing”
      
      Caused by global warming? …maybe the weather? … or was it the Russians? Dunno, but it was nothing to do with Labour right!
      
      This attitude is right up there with “the car swerved off the road”.
      
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      October 18, 2023 11:23am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “the vehicle lost control”
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:44am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  He said he is tidying the garden
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:52am
  - graham
    
    AKA “Gardening Leave”.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:18am
- rouppe
  
  He presided over…?
  
  Megan Woods was campaign chair. I didn’t think Michael Wood was anything other than a Labour Party candidate.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:22am
cas

There are a couple of good obituaries on Sir Tim Wallis in newsroom this morning. He was obviously a great guy and it is a shame we have to wait till he’s dead to really celebrate his life. I love the story about him paying the $80,000 bar bill on the 50th anniversary of VE Day.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/sir-tim-wallis-a-man-of-action
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/sir-tim-wallis-1938-20123

BTW on Kiri I heard she had sold her house in Gizzy and was living in the Bay somewhere.
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October 18, 2023 8:27am
- Flossie
  
  Not trying to be clever here, but when you say “the bay” to which bay are you referring? The Bay can mean different bays depending where you live.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:13am
  - alwyn.a
    
    “The Bay can mean different bays”.
    
    Never. “The Bay” is Hawke Bay and all the surrounding area of Hawke’s Bay.
    All others are imposters trying to ride on the coat-tails of the Magpies, holders of the Ranfurly Shield.
    (Or should that be droppers of the Ranfurly Shields?)
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:04am
    - alwyn.a
      
      A down tick?
      Clearly somebody who lives in Wellington and is silly enough to support their team.
      Well tough luck. We beat you fair and square both in the Shield match and in the Provincial Championship semi-final.
      I might live in Wellington but I still support my home town in the rugby.
      
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      October 18, 2023 12:58pm
      - blue collar
        
        No chance on Saturday brother alwyn , you can keep the shield for summer …. Oh wait , no you can’t , nzru hv Confiscated what’s left of it …… but come Saturday the mighty naki bulls are gonna give yas a danged good thrashing .
        In our own back yard
        Bring ya whitebait nets n surfboards fellas , may aswell enjoy the place whilst licking your wounds
        
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        October 18, 2023 7:30pm
  - cas
    
    Sorry Flossie I meant the Bay of Plenty.
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:36pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Sir Tim Wallis – a great man of Central Otago.
  He will be missed.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:32am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  I’m no fan of Kiri Allen, she seems to be arrogant and entitled out of all proportion to any actual competence or achievement she’s ever demonstrated.
  
  Having said which – I really don’t think it’s any of our business where she lives.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:33am
- Ghost
  
  On kiri, who cares.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:45am
slightlyrighty

https://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2023/10/labour-in-2023-no-place-left-to-grow.html

Intelligent musings from the Old Left.
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October 18, 2023 8:29am
Scooter

Will Biden still visit or chicken out?

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-at-least-500-people-killed-in-hospital-bombing-in-gaza-palestinian-officials-claim-12986454
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October 18, 2023 8:39am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Worth noting that that was most likely a misfired Gazan rocket. Hamas declared firing a large number of their biggest rockets at Israel a minute before and non hit their targets.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:50am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  Well, do we think a visit by Biden would be helpful at this point? How might it help?
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:34am
- Ghost
  
  Will Biden be targeted if he does visit
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:46am
krazykiwi

For more than 18 months travelers have been compelled to endure Air New Zealand’s Maori myths video, the one with genuinely important safety instructions torturously inserted into the mythology.

In my opinion this has been a low point for the company, one where they have presumed to lecture their customers while parading their supposed cultural virtue.

Each time I head off to the airport I idly wonder what new form of cultural hectoring they will have added to their repertoire.

And so it was this morning, but to my surprise I was greeted thee times by airline staff with “Good morning”, no Kia Ora* to be heard.

And the ‘safety’ video? Changed!

What a difference a weekend makes.

* I’m totally ok being greeted with Kia Ora – it is the other party’s choice of greeting and I respect that. I will usually respond with hello, hi etc.
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October 18, 2023 8:41am
- jp_1983
  
  What is the new safety video themed on now?
  Normally AirNZ have a big fanfare for new release of videos..
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:48am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The bird relocation/conservation vid.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:00am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  KK, I had a moment a few weeks back, was listening to NatRad news and then it went to an interview with some bloke down south. Poor lad got tongue twisted and came up with…
  
  “Good Morena”
  
  Which is technically correct, but I damn near lost my breakfast, was wetting myself laughing. Poor lad is probably having nightmares about it still…
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:55am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I once flew from France to Spain and on to Italy in one day. I then managed to get all three languages into a short sentence when ordering a coffee. It’s been a family joke ever since: Dad, the multi-lingual expert.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:14am
    - rouppe
      
      I was on a trip with my then-partner awhile ago. We were in Italy and she thanked a waiter with “Gracias”.
      
      Quickly covered for her and had to quietly remind her later than “Gracias” was Spanish, and in Italy it is “Grazi”
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:19am
      - Scooter
        
        Grazie, to be correct.
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:15am
- RoboRob
  
  Interesting that they may be de tokenising immediately after a change in government.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:57am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yeah, but the Maori staff member welcoming me to Koru was quite possibly more comfortable using Kia Ora. I think they should be permitted to use whatever polite greeting they choose.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:08am
- peterwn
  
  Not sure if that is correct but it might have been that a defeated MP was denied Air NZ lounge access when flying to a caucus meeting Monday or Tuesday (boarding pass scanned negative at the door).
  Did Air NZ actually move that rapidly to cancel lounge access for defeated MP’s? I thought it would have been reasonable to give them access for a week or two while they wrapped up things.
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:57am
  - krazykiwi
    
    If true that sounds a bit rubbish from Air NZ
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:05am
  - john1234
    
    Koru is annual and pre-paid. It doesn’t just get cancelled on an arbitrary date unless its 365 days happen to have just expired.
    
    The story is bullshit.
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:18am
    - cmm
      
      Not necessarily.
      
      The question is whether parliamentary services have a special deal with the Koru club or whether the MPs are issued memberships in their own name.
      
      eg. if you fly first class you can access the Koru club for that flight. You don’t get an annual membership. Parmilmentary services might have struck a similar deaal.
      
      Personally I don’t see why MPs (especially ex MPs) should be entitled to Koru club access. So much for the egalitarian bollocks we’re fed.
      
      If Koru club access is a ministerial perk then it goes away as soon as other ministerial perks do.
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:29am
      - The Housekeeper
        
        Waiting time in your local airport could be a wonderful opportunity to chat with your constituents. I wouldn’t hide away in the Koru Lounge.
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:27pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        constituents
        aka:
        the great unwashed
        filth (rivers of)
        hoi polloi
        common folk
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:46pm
  - virtualmark
    
    That story sounded odd because although the election has been held the result hasn’t been finalised and “old” MPs are still MPs for a few weeks yet.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:25am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Correct. Voted-out and retiring MPs get three months salary from Election Day. If Koru membership is part of the salary package then Dan R would be right to be aggrieved to be denied entry. Even if not, clearing out one’s parliamentary office is undoubtedly parliamentary business.
      
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      October 18, 2023 7:00pm
- Opie
  
  Also, luxons speech on Saturday night. Not a word of Maori.
  
  Maybe, just maybe things are going to be better
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:37am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Wait until Waitangi Day.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:17pm
Maggie Pie

“These are my principles, if you dont like them, well…I have others” 😀

See where failed Auckland mayoral candidate Fa’anana Efesso Collins has scraped into parliament on the Greens list.
Not sure how he’ll be welcomed by the Rainbow brigade that dominate the caucus.
Seems Efesso is well known for his anti-gay stance and being against ‘same-sex’ marriage.

In the words of Chippies one time youth education advisor Shaneel Lal….
“That cut the queer community deep”

https://twitter.com/paultudor/status/1573845166414532609
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October 18, 2023 8:44am
Its only I

I see Biden is heading off to visit Israel.
I guess he wants to see how Iran is spending the money he gave them.
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October 18, 2023 8:50am
- Che Guava
  
  I see Ben Shapiro, and some of his fellow Zionist American opinion-shapers, having been in hysterics for the last while, is now saying that, unless the US directly militarily backs Israel in what may very likely escalate into a war against the entire Islamic ME in response to what is shaping to be the ethnic cleansing and annexation of Gaza, the Israelis are going to have to use the nukes that they pretend they don’t have.
  
  Shit may get seriously out of hand very quickly if they overplay their hand, which they often do. If Iran is attacked or threatened with attack, which the Israelis have been itching for America to do for years, you’ve then got the Russians and the Chinese coming in to back them up. Scary.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:06am
- cmm
  
  I expect he will enjoy the trip.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:13am
  - Scooter
    
    Maybe not so much now a hospital has been bombed with 500 dead and each side blaming the other.
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The hospital was a Hamas own goal. A misfire.
      
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      October 18, 2023 11:58am
      - mawm
        
        I’m a bit more cynical than that.
        
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        October 18, 2023 6:48pm
  - Che Guava
    
    The Mossad may assassinate Biden to get the Americans to fight in Israel’s stead, if they haven’t already given them a blank cheque. Keep your back to the Wailing Wall and don’t eat the choc choc chip, Jack!
    
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    October 18, 2023 2:43pm
Maggie Pie

Hundreds of ‘X’ posts saying a misfired Hamas rocket hit one of their munitions dumps that they’d secretly stored behind a hospital in Gaza.
Killed 500 they reckon.
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October 18, 2023 9:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Hamas says Israel did it.
  
  https://www.ynetnews.com/article/byzy11m3w6
  
  How surprising 🙁
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:05am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    They say 40% of the rockets Hamas launch towards Israel actually land in Gaza!
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:15am
    - Inandout
      
      Maggie, perhaps they are made in China.
      
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      October 18, 2023 9:35am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Yu mean…. CHYNAAAH !
        
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        October 18, 2023 9:46am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Here’s video of the rocket salvo launch. Seconds after the boosters burn out the large explosion is the hospital. Angle is from the Israeli side of the border with the Gaza border in the foreground:
      
      https://twitter.com/i/status/1714382740009755072
      
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      October 18, 2023 10:27am
      - NothingLeft
        
        Hell of an own-goal. Allah’s clearly not on the side of Hamas
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:01am
      - Inandout
        
        thirteen, that is the most probable explanation as I don’t think the IDF are that far off target in their shelling.
        
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        October 18, 2023 11:07am
  - Che Guava
    
    Who’s to say. As always, truth is the first casualty of war.
    
    So the IDF tell us that Hamas killed Palestinian refugees sheltering in a hospital. Possible, of course. Why they’d hide munitions behind a Palestinian hospital is unclear though, given that Palestinian hospitals are the kind of target preferred by the IDF (after all, they’re all either Hamas members or complicit, so we are told).
    
    Then again, the IDF are obviously not a disinterested source of this kind of information. If I’m the IDF, there is every reason to lie about this, because anything like this that can be attributed to the Palestinians is good in the PR campaign the Israelis are engaged in. Also, naturally, if I am the IDF, I obviously have every motivation to bomb a location housing Palestinians in the first place.
    
    Moreover, the story says “…Israeli authorities were at first unsure whether the hospital, which had been sheltering thousands of refugees whose homes were destroyed since the beginning of the war…” Of course, what isn’t mentioned here is that it was the Israeli bombing of Gaza that destroyed these people’s homes and made them refugees to begin with. “Those poor refugees!” they say (“the refugees we created,” they don’t say).
    
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    October 18, 2023 9:28am
    - cmm
      
      No it is not the bombing of homes that has made them refugees. They have been made refugees because they have moved out of northern Gaza.
      
      Israel is going to be going in and going house to house winkling out Hamas. They don’t want civilians in the way because that complicates things and makes it dangerous for the IDF and civilians (but safer for Hamas hiding amongst them).
      
      Hospitals and blocks of flats become legitimate military targets when they the Hamas hide their assets and people there. Hamas loves using human shields.
      
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      October 18, 2023 11:29am
      - Che Guava
        
        “No it is not the bombing of homes that has made them refugees. They have been made refugees because they have moved out of northern Gaza.”
        
        Not according to that article, which reads “…thousands of refugees whose homes were destroyed since the beginning of the war…”
        
        When you say that they have “moved out of northern Gaza,” you make it sound as though they have casually left of their own accord, rather than having been given a short notice period and told to leave by the Israelis before the IDF bomb their homes into the dust (if they haven’t been already, which the articles suggests is the case).
        
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        October 18, 2023 12:21pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Hospitals and blocks of flats become legitimate military targets when they the Hamas hide their assets and people there. Hamas loves using human shields”
        
        That seems very convenient, doesn’t it: bomb civilian targets as a matter of course, then claim afterwards that Hamas was using said civilians as human shields to justify killing civilians. I mean how would you possibly verify such a claim, when the target has been destroyed?
        
        Even if the Israeli claims are true, this means that they are necessarily willingly killing civilians with foreknowledge. They call them “snakes” and “animals” openly, so this is not at all implausible. If you’re calling an enemy such names, it stands to reason that you’d bomb non-combatants in a heart beat.
        
        I think it’s much more likely that they kill civilians in large numbers and flagrantly bomb civilian infrastructure (a war crime, btw) as a policy, then try to justify it to the world afterwards by claiming that the casualties were being used as human shields.
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:34pm
      - cmm
        
        Guava. There are well over a million refugees moving south to get out of the conflict area.
        
        Yes, thousands have lost their homes but those are far from typical when there are a million refugees.
        
        IDF is not “bombing their homes to dust”. IDF is taking on legitimate military targets – some of which are inside apartment blocks etc. Clearly when they do that the apartment block is destroyed (or partially so) and some damage might happen to surrounding buildings.
        
        If you watch the videos of air strikes you can see they are being very surgical. Things to look out for:
        * They are using small bombs most of the time. This limits the amount of unintended damage.
        * They often hit the same building two or three times. Again, this is to do the minumum damage.
        
        If they just dropped 500kg bombs it would knock out a building in one hit, but it would also wipe out other buildings too.
        
        The careful chipping away is deliberate to cause the least damage – while still achieving the objectives.
        
        If Hamas really cared about the people they would build their bases away from the residential areas. What they are doing is using human shields. This is a war crime.
        
        The people committing this war crime are Hamas – not the Israelis.
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:49pm
      - cmm
        
        There is no military advantage to bomb civilian targets.
        
        It is a waste of ammunition, weapons and other resources and it achieves no military purpose. All it does is hurts PR.
        
        Hamas is well documented as using human shields – a war crime. That is the war crime – not hitting the legitimate enemy and causing collateral damage.
        
        That said, there are undoubtedly some cases where there is poor intelligence and a block of flats gets bombed when there are no Hamas inside.
        
        Hamas are pretty screwed up people. They are happy sending patients wearing suicide vests into hospitals.
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:56pm
  - Blog-aholic
    
    From video I have seen the rockets from Hamas look to go off course on an arc and straight into Gaza….
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:29am
- virtualmark
  
  There’s Al Jazeera news video from the correct time showing a rocket launch, with some sort of engine failure/flame-out, and then a few seconds later a large explosion on the ground inline with the rocket’s trajectory. The voice-over commentary for that video references events that have just happened earlier today.
  
  That aligns with the IDF explanation that they had no planes in the area, didn’t launch any bombs or rockets at that time.
  
  It also aligns with the timing of press release from Islamic Jihad saying that they were about to launch their biggest rockets, targeting Haifa (which is a fair distance away and only reachable by large rockets). IDF says no rockets passed into Israel heading for Haifa.
  
  So, all circumstantial, but at least credible on the surface.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:29am
  - RoboRob
    
    We also know that Hamas keeps their weapons (and key personal) around schools, hospitals and appartments. So its likely that something of theirs blew up.
    
    The media always purposely follow into Hamas’s game of ‘those dirty Israel’s attacking our civilians’ even thhough they know Hamas purposely put them their so the civilians are hurt.
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:11am
    - virtualmark
      
      It’s Mark Twain’s dictum that a lie has already gone around the world before the truth has even put its pants on.
      
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      October 18, 2023 12:20pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Like the alleged 40 decapitated babies that has since been walked-back and/or dropped due to absence of objective evidence? I’m prepared to accept that all sides lie for their own benefit when it comes to who did what to whom in a war, are you?
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:55pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Well, the decapitated babies has been referenced by several authoritative people, like heads of state, so I’m prepared to accept it’s true. For sure I don’t feel a need to see the pictures myself.
        
        But even if they weren’t decapitated … I’m really not sure how “Hamas killed babies, but at least we didn’t decapitate them” is a good thing. Still seems pretty medieval and simply evil to me.
        
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        October 18, 2023 3:57pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Well, the decapitated babies has been referenced by several authoritative people, like heads of state, so I’m prepared to accept it’s true.”
        
        Heads of state lie all of the time. Nixon had to resign because he lied; LBJ lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident; GW Bush assured the world that Iraq had WMDs; Blair told the British people that his immigration policy wouldn’t radically alter the fabric of society; Ardern told us it was unsafe to speak to our neighbours. Lies, lies and more lies. And that’s just 5 off the top of my head.
        
        Which heads of state do you mean in this instance? Biden and Netanyahu? Hardly disinterested observers.
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:30pm
      - blue collar
        
        The people who instantly believe the decapitated baby propaganda are the same scum who believed the Covid propaganda .
        Thanks a lot fellow citizens
        Your non critical thinking and lack of skepticism really makes this world a worse place
        Be cynical
        Ask for evidence
        Or do us all a favour and jump off a cliff just coz other lemmings are doing it
        It would certainly help the gene pool
        
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        October 18, 2023 7:46pm
  - KH
    
    So show us which Al Jazeera. Or. You comment is mis-information.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:26pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Are you not capable of finding it yourself? Is that troll thing?
      
      Well, here’s two examples of the underlying Al Jazeera footage …
      https://twitter.com/raz_sauber/status/1714374976785002924
      https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1714383923881373908
      
      And this is apparently a claim from the Palestinians that they were about to launch their largest type of rocket targeted at Haifa … just a few minutes before the explosion at the hospital. https://twitter.com/IsraelWarRoom/status/1714361032066601368
      
      For me, I’m happy to wait for more conclusive data to come out. But at this stage the IDF assertion that it was an Islamic Jihad missile that failed to launch properly seems plausible.
      
      Hey … I saw an ad on TV last night that said trolls now take Afterpay? Good for you, getting all modern.
      
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      October 18, 2023 4:14pm
      - Ghost
        
        This might interest you, claims your video was an hour before the attack
        
        https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714387337633833398?
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:21pm
      - Ghost
        
        An article about the video that Israel had on twitter being the wrong time
        
        Article
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:36pm
      - virtualmark
        
        I gather there’s a discrepancy between the time shown on the coverage, which is apparently Mecca time, and the time of the event, which is in a time zone 1 hour different.
        
        Look, I’m waiting to see more authoritative info. But at the moment I’ve not seen anything that confirms it was an IDF bomb, and there is this video that appears to show a failed rocket launch in the right location and time.
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:37pm
      - Ghost
        
        Your video does not have the correct time. It shows it at 18.59. The attack was 19.50, so you can’t claim an hour difference
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:45pm
      - Ghost
        
        Another article
        
        Article
        
        The official X account for the Israeli government edited one of their tweets, which accused the PIJ of being responsible for the devastation in Al-Ahli Hospital. In its edit, the government removed a video purporting to show the rocket launches from their tweet after social media users pointed out that the timestamp on the clip was inconsistent with the reported time of the hospital strike.
        
        ..
        
        One account, operating under the name Farida Khan, claimed to be a reporter for Al Jazeera. The account posted that they had witnessed the strike themselves, claiming it was a “Hamas Ayyash 250″ Rocket. “It was Hamas misfired Rocket. Al Jazeera is lying. I have video of that Hamas missile landing in the hospital,” the unverified account claimed.
        
        Al Jazeera clarified that the account “has no ties to Al Jazeera, its views, or content,” and advised social media users to “exercise caution, [and] verify information prior to publishing.”
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:50pm
      - KH
        
        Virtualmark. What’s with the troll rants? I could ask you – are you an Israeli misinformation specialist out of their centre? We know work in that big centre can be part of your national service.
        But seriously – can’t find it on Al Jazeera. I suspect it’s not there at all – your links were indirect “X” posts, so quite suspect. And a few lights zipping around could be filmed anywhere anytime.
        Also Al Jazeera is extensive on the topic of course. Those posts report the opposite view from what you claim.
        Anyway – give me genuine Al Jazeera links. And I will follow up.
        
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        October 18, 2023 5:29pm
- Ghost
  
  Someone comparing it claims it was an American made JDAM
  
  https://twitter.com/MyLordBebo/status/1714359458967466235?
  
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  October 18, 2023 3:17pm
Benedict Yu

It is worth watching this short clip. Winston being interviewed by Australia’s 9 News TV. Winston tends to cut back on the theatrics when he is interviewed by overseas media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFHySbPlsMM&t=8s&ab_channel=9NewsAustralia

He has a go at David Seymour’s proposed referendum on a “Treaty Principles Act”. However it his reasoning that is surprising. He tells the interviewers ‘There are no Principles of the Treaty. Only the Articles”.

That is quite remarkable. What is he going to do about that? There are dozens of key pieces of legislation that require the actions of regulators to be “consistent with the Principles of the Treaty”. Other Acts introduced over the last three years go further. The law requires actions to “advance” or “promote” the Principles of the Treaty.

Now Winston is telling us that there are “no Principles”.
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October 18, 2023 9:03am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Winston originally qualified & worked as a lawyer before entering politics
  
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winston_Peters
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:18am
- nathie
  
  Thanks BY – interesting find. Winnie is correct in that the Principles are an artificial modern construct (and that’s what he means in relation to Seymour’s referendum i.e. why have a referendum on something that technically isn’t part of the original TOW)? Granted something needs to be done on the intrusion of the so called Principles – whether that is a public referendum or legislation overriding them I’ll leave to more qualified people here to propose solutions with interest.
  
  Also found this – Sky News Australia hosts give their opinion on Labour’s thrashing!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8nwjvmHki0
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:58am
- James Stephenson
  
  Change the legislation so that everyone is required to be consistent with the “vibe” of the treaty?
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:33am
  - RoboRob
    
    Thats what we already have 🙂
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:14am
  - Dudley Quaffquaff
    
    You’re just shifting the same problem to a different word. Whether the legal requirement is to comply with the “principles” or the “vibe” of the Treaty, you still need to specify exactly what those are, which is what Seymour’s proposal seeks to do.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:10pm
- RoboRob
  
  There have never been principals so Winstons 100% correct.
  
  My understanding on the referendum is to clarify that there either aren’t principals or codify them if there are. No more of the whole ‘I want x or y so I am saying its my right due to the principals for the treaty’.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:14am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “There have never been principals so Winstons 100% correct.”
    
    Well they are being extensively taught to children in the school curriculum. So if Winston is correct there is a lot of undoing required.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:42pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Well can someone tell us what they are?
  
  And, by the way, why is the word spelled with a capital P?
  
  A subtle but important point.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:19am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Well can someone tell us what they are?”
    
    Answer: “partnership, participation and protection”.
    
    These are the principles taught to school students in the New Zealand curriculum.
    
    https://nzcurriculum.tki.org.nz/Curriculum-resources/NZC-Updates/Issue-16-January-2012/Treaty-principles-Participation
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:40pm
    - imalwaysright
      
      The ministry of education didn’t write the treaty and seem incapable of reading it.
      
      -“Answer: “partnership, participation and protection”.”
      
      What does that mean?
      Vague individual words are essentially meaningless without some explanation .
      
      It is OK to say you don’t know the answer. No one does.
      There aren’t any principles , if there were they would have been written as a precursor to Article 1.
      
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      October 18, 2023 2:13pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        There are thousands of pages describing the ‘principles”. The Ministry of Education did not make it up.
        
        https://teara.govt.nz/en/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-nga-matapono-o-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/print
        
        https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/publications-and-resources/waitangi-tribunal-reports/ngatiwai-mandate-inquiry/chapter-3/
        
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        October 18, 2023 4:21pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There’s a number of versions of “The Treaty Principles”
    
    Here’s 5 of them:
    The relevant Treaty principles were determined to be those of reciprocity, active protection, partnership, equity, and equal treatment.
    
    https://www.waitangitribunal.govt.nz/publications-and-resources/waitangi-tribunal-reports/ngatiwai-mandate-inquiry/chapter-3/
    
    Here’s another 5:
    *The government has the right to govern and make laws.
    *Iwi have the right to organise as iwi, and, under the law, to control their resources as their own.
    *All New Zealanders are equal before the law.
    *Both the government and iwi are obliged to accord each other reasonable cooperation on major issues of common concern.
    *The government is responsible for providing effective processes for the resolution of grievances in the expectation that reconciliation can occur.
    
    It appears the principles are still being invented….
    There is no final and complete list of treaty principles.
    
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/principles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi-nga-matapono-o-te-tiriti-o-waitangi/print
    
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    October 18, 2023 2:57pm
- ISeeRed
  
  He misspoke. He meant HE had no principles.
  
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  October 18, 2023 7:59pm
oldpark

Hamas the murderers of many many Israels can now notch an own goal in Gaza .
Seems while firing rockets or missiles from beside a hospital in Gaza .The weapon misfired and exploded within the Hospital Grounds causing many deaths up to at least 500 Hundred People.
They decided to blame IDF and with the help of far left sick World Media their propaganda and self imposed disaster has kicked in Blaming Israel .
Go figure that propaganda .
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October 18, 2023 9:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now the whole World thinks Israel is bad for bombing a hospital killing innocent people. This is how Hamas works. They use the hospital as defence, hiding behind women and children.
  Cowards.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:31am
- rangitoto
  
  The type of rockets Hamas use wouldn’t kill anything like 500 people. Most likely the site was used for ammo storage.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:38am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Two types of Rockets,
    One built with Iranian technology and two,
    Built by water pipes supplied as aid.
    Main head quarters for Hammas is under hospitals as Israelis know.
    All is fair in love and war.
    They forgot too mention religion.
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:57pm
Benedict Yu

Due to a health condition, I need to have a blood sample drawn and tested every two weeks. The lab that did this was “SCL Christchurch”. Last month they changed their name to “Awanui Labs”. Now look what happens:

https://www.awanuilabs.co.nz/south/canterbury/blog/2023/10/12/strike-action-oct23/

All the blood testing folk go on strike for 10 days. The blood test centres are only open for two hours each day. I visited yesterday and gave up. The crowd reminded me of the Kowloon Walled City 🙁
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October 18, 2023 9:13am
- Ghost
  
  I had a blood test a while ago when they were still medlab. Excuse my language mod. The lady showed me the card and said, “I’m supposed to give you one of these fucken cards, it’s all rubbish, fucken millions to rebrand and a pitiful pay rise. I throw the fucken thing on the fire”. Had a blood test a couple of weeks back with the same lady. She told me the manager was there the day before and she told her to fuck off. The pay is so bad they can’t get staff.
  
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  October 18, 2023 9:20am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The more people do this (possibly without the bad language) the dinner it gets dumped.
    If I receive an email that begins with the long version Maori greeting I delete it before I get to the content.
    Immature? Maybe, I don’t care. I find it extremely rude to address me in a language that the vast majority don’t understand.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:02am
- cmm
  
  BY: Normally medical centers (ie. GP nurses) will also draw blood for a small charge. Ours charges $10.
  
  Cheaper than spending your life in the queue.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:11am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Sure if it were one off. However I don’t want to spend $10 every 2 weeks.
    
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    October 18, 2023 10:38am
    - cmm
      
      Half an hour or more queuing to save $5 a week? Your time must be worth nothing.
      
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      October 18, 2023 11:32am
      - Ghost
        
        Never had to wait more than 5 minutes at whatever medlab is called now.
        
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        October 18, 2023 12:08pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I don’t wait half an hour.
        
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        October 18, 2023 1:44pm
- rangitoto
  
  I go to a place called labtests here on the Northshore. Never had any problems but I only go yearly for my annual checkup.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:30am
  - MCōs
    
    I went to the Onehunga Labtest yesterday
    I gave them my name and some other identifying information and they knew exactly what I was there for.
    As it happened there was no queue (other times there can be a wait)
    I had the results later on that night, as per usual.
    BTW
    I received a couple of letters in the last few days from Health New Zealand. The only non-English was Te Whatu Ora.
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Same with Labtest Glenfield. The test is online linked to my NHI number.
      PSA bloodtest 3 monthly.
      
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      October 18, 2023 12:22pm
  - jonno1
    
    Labtests is also rebranding as Awanui Labs. I drove right past the Carbine Rd site recently looking for the big red sign – gone!
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:47pm
Jack5

Why so few Christians among the UN-selected refugees to New Zealand when Christians are the most persecuted religious group in the world today.

Marc Sidwell, in the Telegraph, writing about a decline in world religious freedom: “The charity Open Doors estimates that, globally, one in seven Christians face persecution for their faith.”
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October 18, 2023 9:20am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  How do you know how many Christians there are among the UN-selected refugees to New Zealand? Where is this information published?
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:39am
  - Jack5
    
    Dudley Quaffquaff:
    
    If you read the court reports of the small proportion of refugees who go wrong you would quickly see that nearly all have non-Christian names, an obvious indication of religion in the Middle East.
    
    If you look at the first link below you will see origins of NZ refugees. Apart from tropical Columbia, whose refugees to NZ seem mysteriously to be placed in chilly Southland, they are all from Muslim countries.
    
    Our refugees are assigned to us by the Lefties and Third Worlders at the United Nations, and you can see in the second link that Christians in the Middle East have been discriminated against in the refugee chain.
    
    Dudley Quaffquaff, you could have got someone to show you how to look these up on the internet:
    
    1. A recent refugee quota:
    
    https://www.parliament.nz/media/7269/new-zealand-refugee-quota-august-2020.pdf
    
    2. Discrimination against Middle East Christians:
    
    https://nzcatholic.org.nz/2017/03/20/iraqs-christian-refugees-face-double-discrimination/
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:39pm
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Nope. You cannot assume somebody’s religion from their name.
      
      And wouldn’t Muslim countries be exactly where you’d expect persecuted Christians to come from?
      
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      October 18, 2023 1:54pm
      - Jack5
        
        😲Of course, Mr Quaffquaff!
        
        Having the first name “Mohammed” or, in a woman’s case, “Fatimah,” could likely mean they are a Jehovah’s Witness member, or a Roman Catholic. You must not jump to the conclusion that such people are Muslims!
        
        There has been a dramatic and large fall in the number of Christians and other non-Muslims in the Middle East. They are being driven out of the region.
        
        Some evidence of discrimination against Christian refugees from the Middle East, this time discrimination in Britain:
        
        https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12796/britain-christian-refugees
        
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        October 18, 2023 2:51pm
Peter Lane

Even when they’re kicked out they still get a load of perks.

What a job eh?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2023-nanaia-mahuta-michael-wood-and-tamati-coffey-inside-ousted-mps-exit-perks/52UPYNRDT5DC5JU2J42W7MMBDQ/
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October 18, 2023 9:21am
Jack5

Australian soldier wins damages from State-owned ABC on false allegation that Aussie soldiers shot Afghan prisoner.

https://youtu.be/F7fWOt1yxpc?si=qbGzH0FSixk8a8aJ
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October 18, 2023 9:29am
Taieri

they still get a load of perks
———-

And so they should. After all the sleepless nights and days of deprivation that they suffered working ceaselessly for our welfare, this is only fair that they should enjoy a small token of our gratitude. If it was up to me, I’d offer them all these perks before they enter the Parliament. Just to keep them out and away from it…
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October 18, 2023 9:32am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Stop it. Nek minut they will expect that and pass a Law.
  
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  October 18, 2023 12:25pm
Maggie Pie

Chippie admits he voted for National.
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October 18, 2023 9:47am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Facebook Notifications:
A page you follow Nanaia Mahuta MP…..changed it’s name to Nanaia Mahuta.

So she got the message.
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October 18, 2023 9:57am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  She has too, it will be a parliamentary page, all the MPs and candidates, they are never their personal page, I note Erica Stanford has liked my comments on both personal and MP pages
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:15am
  - MCōs
    
    So you’ve cracked the big time!
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:48am
Fisiani2

Elections are won by parties who offer a better future to voters
Make America great again. Is a perfect example
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October 18, 2023 10:03am
- MCōs
  
  Reminds me of the reporters who go around the streets the day after Budget Day asking people what was in it for them.
  An extra thupence in their pay packet (as if anyone still gets a little brown pay packet unless they’re not paying tax)
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:47am
surfing

If special votes change the situation such that National needs NZ First, but Winston decides to go with Labour, then Labour could stay in government — is that theoretically possible?
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October 18, 2023 10:12am
- oldpark
  
  @Surfing .In NZ Politics every thing and anything is possible .
  
  Take the meaning of what the name “Politician” Means?.
  
  A schemer who tries to gain advantage in an organization in sly or underhanded ways. That is the Noun .Flashback 2017 NZ Election Results.
  
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  October 18, 2023 10:29am
  - surfing
    
    Would be funny if Winnie through the toys out of the cot as he does, and we ended up with Labour/NZF/Maori/Greens……..
    
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    October 18, 2023 11:02am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

John Tamihere Video Alarming.
He Says Maori Will Resort To Violence If They Don’t Get What They Demand.
“They say their justification “is in the Treaty”. Let me say categorically, it is not in the Treaty.” JB.
A taste of what Tribal Rule will be like.
I think we have Laws on this in NZ.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/john-tamihere-video-alarming-he-says-maori-will-resort-to-violence-if-they-dont-get-what-they-demand/?

The video is not working. I will send a text.
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October 18, 2023 10:16am
- cmm
  
  It is really just another form of “don’t upset the gangs”.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:35am
Yvette

Appreciate life’s little ironies –

■ Live: Hipkins says Govt needs ‘robust’ opposition to ensure it delivers on ‘very big’ pre-election promises
Over six years Labour’s most distinguishing trait has been its non-delivery on almost everything, so now sees themselves needed to ensure National delivers?
And what National promises to deliver is the unravelling of several of the few things which Labour did manage to deliver

■ Senior Labour MP Andrew Little resigns after election loss
Is there still Police staff working to change someone over Pike River?
And is a key point the fact that a Ventilation Manager was never appointed, and was that the fault of the administration, the Miners themselves (the first link in the safety chain) or their representative Union Senior at the time? Little wonder
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October 18, 2023 10:18am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Live: Hipkins says Govt needs ‘robust’ opposition to ensure it delivers on ‘very big’ pre-election promises”
  
  Does he think that is his role? He opposes every single announced National policy. Is not his role to continue to argue against them? Is Labour going to vote in Parliament for the tax cuts to “ensure National delivers”? Good grief. He sounds very confused already. Anyway what would those guys know about delivering anything?
  
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  October 18, 2023 12:06pm
I remember when

In the Election 2.6% (58,393) voted Te Pati Maori out of a total vote of 2,244,380 ordinary votes.
The TPM party could have won all seven Maori seats with this percentage of the vote.
In a close election this would allow 2.6% of the total ordinary votes to be able to decide who became the government.
It is a reason to reconsider the Maori seats when voting under MMP.
No party can achieve this influence by winning general electorate seats with this percentage of the overall vote.
On ‘The Hui’ I heard them talking about the need for Maori to use tactical voting.
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October 18, 2023 10:18am
- NothingLeft
  
  Maori seats needed to go a generation ago, and certainly now, But so too does the overhang rort. Simple way to fix it: 4 TPM electorate MPs should only get 3 parliamentary votes to match their share of party vote. 0.75 votes each on matters of conscience.
  
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  October 18, 2023 1:05pm
rangitoto

I heard on ZB yesterday someone say that blue collar workers are more likely to vote for NAT or ACT and white collar workers are more likely to vote Labour or Greens. Is there any actual polling done on this?
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October 18, 2023 10:24am
- Hollyfield
  
  Around 5.20pm maybe? I missed the start of the interview but I thought at the time it sounded like David Farrar’s voice.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:06am
- NothingLeft
  
  That’s been the case for a long time. “Labour” would more accurately be “Taxpayer funded lifestylers”
  
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  October 18, 2023 1:00pm
I remember when

From the New York Times:
Zeke Hausfather, a prominent scientist, called this summer’s worldwide heat wave “absolutely gobsmackingly bananas.”
The Pope has clearly been paying attention.
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October 18, 2023 10:26am
I remember when

The LUTON Airport Fire – DIESEL or a HYBRID? You decide: Geoff Buys Cars.
The article draws attention to fact the Range Rover Evoque’s have been prone to catch on fire due, he says, to a possible diesel particulate filter problem
because of the build up of carbon.
However he suggests that the Luton Airport fire was probably a Range Rover Sport hybrid.
The press, he argues, are suppressing details of vehicle fires that involve EVs.
He gives details to show that location of the fire, colour of the fire, the amount of smoke and speed of the fire, all point to the vehicle being a hybrid and a battery fire.

Have EV fires become the misinformation/disinformation
of the motor industry?
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October 18, 2023 10:40am
- imalwaysright
  
  Correct I,
  These incidents are being suppressed by the media.
  The Luton fire started in the battery of a diesel electric hybrid .
  Ironically the fire was fed by other EVs parked nearby and their fire intensity spread even faster in a domino effect manner.
  Unfortunately it will take a catastrophic loss of life to expose the danger of these time bombs. It is inevitable .
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:37am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Fire authorities are generally skilled at finding the source of a fire. So they should find it.
    
    I have never heard of diesel vehicles just exploding.
    
    Diesel is much, much less flammable than gasoline.
    
    https://www.anl.gov/article/7-things-you-might-not-know-about-diesel
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:16pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      From the link: If you toss a lit match into a puddle of diesel fuel, it’ll go out.
      Correct. But diesel will burn off a wick like kerosene. Think of a pile of sacks with diesel on them. There ya go!
      Petrol, yep it will ignite. An empty petrol tank or can is more explosive than dynamite. Boom!
      
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      October 18, 2023 12:39pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        SO. An empty petrol tank or can is more explosive than dynamite.
        
        Interesting but a tad erroneous.
        
        Sort of like comparing a truck and a car.
        Which will go faster
        Which has better fuel consumption
        Which has greater load bearing capacity.
        The answer is Depends.
        
        Bias. I was trained in explosives during my time in the military.
        Would you replace TNT/high explosive in a hand grenade/bomb to get a better bang? ..nah.
        
        Would you use Fuel air mix to cause a bigger pressure wave to ?? knock people over??. Yep.
        
        Just a rumination from my days of making things go bang.
        
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        October 18, 2023 8:25pm
- KH
  
  Fires in petrol vehicles happen all the time. Only get reported if by luck there is a dramatic photo to publish.
  Most don’t get reported because it’s not news. Too common, too many.
  
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  October 18, 2023 1:38pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Petrol fires in cars are much more easier to extinguish than EV Fires. Theres plenty of evidence to support that.
    Here’s another Battery issue.
    ‘A couple say Tesla has charged them £17,000 to repair damage to their battery caused by ‘driving in the rain’. Johnny Bacigalupo and Rob Hussey were trying to drive home in wet weather last week when their £60,000 Tesla refused to start.’
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/couple-charged-17000-tesla-broke-27925152
    
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    October 18, 2023 2:30pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    Petrol cars experience 20 times more fires than EV’s per 100,000 cars.
    
    Unfortunately, EV battery fires are a whole lot more difficult to extinguish.
    
    A petrol or EV fire in the garage would be horrible but given the odds I would rather have an EV in the garage than a petrol car.
    
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    October 18, 2023 7:14pm
Swifty

I said it here a few months back – I don’t think this is over…..

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300990491/huatas-vow-to-stay-on-occupied-land-intend-to-claim-tikanga-rights

Unbelievable, but there you are.
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October 18, 2023 10:50am
- Tom Barker
  
  Ah yes – Donna. What a tragic loss to the ACT party. She could have been its leader by now, with a record of rat cunning like that.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:50am
  - Swifty
    
    That’s your standard is it Tom – to judge a party on its wrong uns, in this case a wrong un that was booted out by ACT.
    
    Ok then.
    
    Let’s try that with, oh I dunno, the NZ Labour Party.
    
    Let’s start with Philip Field who openly used his public position for personal advantage and ended up imprisoned his corruption was so severe and blatant.
    
    Who else can we think of?
    
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    October 18, 2023 1:23pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Easy way to claim it back under tikanga is to force them out with violence as is the old way.
  
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  October 18, 2023 11:59am
- septic skeptic
  
  Interesting. Only Maoris know and can decide what tikanga means, but which Maoris get to make that decision?
  
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  October 18, 2023 12:30pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not the milky bar Pakeha Maoris.
    
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    October 18, 2023 12:42pm
hullkiwi

On Monday, Maggy W. wrote that she had read The Standard recently and found it an information free zone. Well last night, I had some spare time, and as I hadn’t perused The Standard for a few weeks, I went and had a quick read last night.
While I can understand Maggy’s sentiment, I would beg to differ with Maggy, the page I read was not information free, instead it was a page lacking accurate insights (it had insight, but it was just misguided), logic and understanding of what and why Labour got the thumping they did get in Auckland and New Zealand outside of Wellington at the weekend.

The page and comments I read was an opinion post by MICKYSAVAGE (for those who don’t know he is a lawyer from Glen Eden, a Local Board Councillor and a New Lynn LEC member)
How the special votes may work out « The Standard

In the piece, Micky references Graeme Edgler’s piece https://publicaddress.net/legalbeagle/election-23-the-special-votes/

Edgler in his analysis, uses his (disconnected) Wellington lens to make his predictions as to how the Special votes will influence the final distribution of seats. Edgler’s analysis is wrong for two reasons:
1. A significant bulk of Special Votes arose on Saturday when the Electoral Commission system crashed so historic inferences will not help to predict the composition of special vote preferences; and
2. Edgler (and Micky in his opinion post) use what happened in the 2014, 2017 and 2020 elections as a guide as to what the composition of Special votes will be. Both Edgler and Micky are wrong to use past election voting intentions as a guide to what happened at the 2023 election. The 2023 election has already revealed that the Wellington lens is out of focus with the rest of NZ.

What then follows is a discourse by a few of the usual suspects about what happened at the election and what happened in seats like New Lynn, TeAtatu and Mt Albert (funnily enough, they hadn’t discussed Mt Roskill – has Wood been sent to “Coventry” or what?).
Only, a couple of commentators come close to making accurate comments as to what happened in the seats outside of Wellington. In fact from reading the comments, it is clear that the Labour government/party, the media and the bureaucracy have been doing such a good job gaslighting everybody, that the Labour activists do not know what is actually the case in NZ and what is not. Long may it remain that way.

Given that Labour (both the outgoing government/MPS and the Labour /party) are so clueless about the state of New Zealand, it is not for anyone on this blog or any of the other right-wing blogs to start telling the Labour Party what is wrong with NZ. Let them stay deluded, reflect on what happened, or even contemplate their navels in their self-contained Wellington bubbles, but above all, keep them away from the levers of power until sometime never!!!! Any such discussions by any of National or Act supporters must be private discussions. If the Labour Party can’t work out why NZ (excluding Wellington) rejected Labour, then we should not be the ones to help them understand what they need to do to be credible with New Zealanders.

Finally, prior to the election, I predicted that National would win 50 to 54 seats, I am still expecting the final count for National to be between 52 and 54 seats.
I expect Mt Albert to flip back to Melissa Lee (making it a National gain) and the other seats to watch will be Wigram & Taieri!
Further, I do not expect New Lynn, TeAtatu, Nelson or Banks Peninsula to flip back to Labour (much to the disappointment of the left). This is because, these are seats outside of the Wellington bubble, where proportionally Labour got hammered. And in all these areas voters were telling Luxon and Seymour “they wanted change!!”.
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October 18, 2023 11:29am
- NothingLeft
  
  The greatest good NAct can do is to work assiduously to move more NZers from the ‘vote for a living’ column to the ‘work for a living column’.
  
  Other than clearing out hoards of lifestyle welfare recipients that means radically downsizing civil service, perhaps even outsourcing functions to contractors where possible (so that they have a business-like attitude to employment and cashflow).
  
  Getting teachers to be less invested in big govt would be a big win too. Do away with standard pay scales and have all teachers paid based on yearly improvement in their kids performance might help that a lot. Better achievers would possibly move from left-support to right if they were being rewarded for effort. Might even be able to attract better teachers into the profession.
  
  Labour have a lot of soul searching to do (if they actually possess them). They need to stop selecting union, student politics and SJW activists as candidates and instead prioritize finding talented managers and business people with technical competence to provide the talent pool they so desperately need for future Ministerial positions.
  
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  October 18, 2023 12:11pm
Vinicius

Interview on YouTube with Bill English talking about forming the new coalition government post-election and some wonkish stuff about policy development and delivery.

Duration: 39 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMXPPzMgDwo
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October 18, 2023 12:14pm
Ghost

Very interesting show

Sean Webb is the author of “Mind Hacking Happiness” and through his work with the Monroe Institute, Webb has become one of the foremost authorities on remote viewing & consciousness.

In this episode, Webb walks us through the history and process of remote viewing. We learn about the CIA’s interest in this phenomenon and the back story of one of the most famous remote viewers–Joe McMoneagle. Webb outlines his experience with his first remote viewing

YouTube
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October 18, 2023 12:54pm
Swifty

“”While I know there’s a lot of disappointment in the community with the result, we’re going to have an extremely right-wing Government, what we can do is get on and stand shoulder to shoulder with our communities. So they know that hope is coming.” – Efeso Collins.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300991236/election-2023-live-greens-still-mulling-leadership-hipkins-says-losing-mori-seats-incredibly-disappointing

Hope that will be dashed next and every time Greens make it into government.
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October 18, 2023 1:06pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Does Collins know the Greens are filled to the brim with people who he despises on religous grounds?
  
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  October 18, 2023 1:14pm
- mogg
  
  Surely he means shoulder to shoulder at the trough.
  
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  October 18, 2023 2:59pm
SmokerGuy

How about the astonishing arrogance of the media. Jessica Much McKay having a cry because Luxon isn’t including the media in negotiations. When are the media going to realise why people hate and distrust them so much? It’s just incredible how full of themselves the media are, they didn’t give a shit about transparency when Ardern was in charge!!
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October 18, 2023 1:27pm
KH

To knock down a hospital and kill 500 people takes quite a bomb. Huge. Israel has those.
Hamas rockets are fiddly small, although they can kill you if they land next to you.
Never seen damage from a Hamas rocket that destroyed more than a house.
If you know different, show us.
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October 18, 2023 1:31pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Hamas are likely lying about 500 dead – this is a strongly propaganda influenced war after all, though hospital has been severely over-packed due to influx of injured and their families (and perhaps some seeking safe-harbor) due to war.
  
  Good guess that majority of people at hospital are actually family members milling around outside. Possible rocket fell in a courtyard or hit wall of building above a courtyard.
  
  And then there is some chance that the falling rocket hit something explosive or highly flammable or set off a dicky fuse on nearby weapons. Hamas has form for co-locating it’s barracks, depots and storage facilities next to or under hospitals and schools to reduce chance of being targeted.
  
  IDF will be releasing evidence to prove it was malfunctioning Islamic Jihad rocket https://youtu.be/GnQ33ZnArTU
  
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  October 18, 2023 2:18pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    https://hotair.com/john-s-2/2023/10/17/an-rocket-missile-hit-a-hospital-in-gaza-and-both-sides-are-blaming-one-another-n585565
    
    It does look like a Rocket blew up and then hit the Hospital.
    Iran wont care.
    
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    October 18, 2023 2:40pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Hamas had taken delivery of much larger Rockets made in Iran.
  They were very capable of an explosion of that size- which of course was made worse by the munitions being stored at the Hospital also exploding.
  
  As for saying “Hamas rockets are fiddly small”, that’s some dissembling and propaganda there!
  
  But no matter. At least that reveals to us all who and what you are.
  
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  October 18, 2023 2:37pm
  - KH
    
    Ah. A personal attack in response. You must be a lefty.
    Anyway I asked the question. – show me damage from a Hamas that is bigger than a house. Plenty of damage photos around. People killed yes. But nothing huge. Be good to see.
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:31pm
- kowtow
  
  They knocked out at least one Merkerva tank and numerous border observation posts and remote controlled machine guns using drone bombs .
  
  Nothing “fiddly small ” about the terror assault that fateful morning.
  
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  October 18, 2023 5:01pm
  - KH
    
    That parked Merkeva was taken out by a bunch of guys in T Shirts swarming all over it. Then it looked like petrol poured and lit. No missile.
    I watched the video of them pulling the crew out. Nasty.
    
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    October 18, 2023 8:35pm
- cmm
  
  “Hamas rockets are fiddly small,”
  
  Dude, if that was the case then why would Israel be firing off Iron Dome rockets at USD50,000 each?
  
  Hamas has a range of rockets from the tiny Quassam 1 (about 1 metre long) to a stockpile of Iranian Grad missiles. The latter would do serious damage.
  
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  October 18, 2023 5:04pm
Maggie Pie

Local Community Board Member for Mangere tells ZB….
Central Government need to engage a lot more on Social-Housing, as homes currently being built are no where large enough to meet the needs of the average PI family.

Thort that worth sharing with the group.
16 2
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October 18, 2023 1:35pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Twice-unsuccessful Local Board candidate, Maggie.
  
  But he’s not wrong, is he?
  
  8 2
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  October 18, 2023 3:04pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hear what you’re saying Steven….he’s not wrong.
    Heaven knows, it’s problem enuff even for a couple trying to live in 6000 sq ft.
    
    8 1
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    October 18, 2023 3:43pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Heh, heh. Your feelings of claustrophobia must be nigh on unbearable, Maggie. [Also, just quietly, it’s ‘Stephen’.]
      
      7 1
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      October 18, 2023 3:53pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Me too —-
        My Mother used to call me “Stephen” when I had done something wrong.
        Mum has gone.
        Now, who wants to call me ‘Stephen’ besides my Partner, who is watching me now?
        
        4 0
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        October 18, 2023 7:19pm
- artemisia
  
  Families can consider how many children they can realistically care for. Some figure out how many children taxpayers will support, and decide accordingly.
  
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  October 18, 2023 3:05pm
Chuck Bird

Robertson supports the terrorists yet if he was in Gaza he would be thrown off a high building.
20 3
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October 18, 2023 1:43pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  He’d probably be safe now….it doesn’t look like there’s any left.
  
  11 1
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  October 18, 2023 1:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  How high?
  
  5 1
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  October 18, 2023 7:23pm
Paulus

There appears to be two stories about the bombing of the Gaza Hospital – one is of course automatically that the Israelis did it, and secondly and possibly that Hamas caused it by a failed rocket.
It is well known that Hamas factories producing bombs, rocket etc are built under hospitals and similar facilities, as it is accepted that as a result the hospitals will not be bombed by the Israelis deliberately.
However it is only the pro Palestine Hamas media that the world media accepts.
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October 18, 2023 2:11pm
- kowtow
  
  HDPA reporting that UK Telegraph says open source something or other falls on the side of Hamas rocket fuck up.
  
  That would be about right.
  
  Now Pallywood and Co takes over to blame everyone , anyone , other than the terrorists who are directly responsible.
  
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  October 18, 2023 4:55pm
Maggie Pie

Gosh this sounds a bit scary 🙁

A tweet I was sent a few minutes ago from the
Iranian Embassy in Syria, says….. time is up

https://twitter.com/IranembassyDam/status/1714441734300524929

Not sure what I should do next now?
7 2
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October 18, 2023 2:34pm
Ghost

Love it, Whittaker’s chocolate and tiny penises flying around

Article
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October 18, 2023 3:00pm
Ghost

Well stuff wouldn’t have been able to afford to remain with twitter

After Elon Musk hinted last month that X could start charging all users, the company (formerly known as Twitter) announced a test of such a system.

X said in a post on Tuesday that it is testing a new program called “Not a Bot” in which new users in New Zealand and the Philippines will be required to sign up for a $1 annual subscription to post and interact with other posts.

Article
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October 18, 2023 3:03pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Contractors want permanent roles; and 27,000 Public Sector employees cut by 15,000? Yep, bring it on.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/contractors-move-into-permanent-roles-ahead-of-public-service-cuts/ar-AA1imZGk?
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October 18, 2023 3:09pm
cmm

NBR says they can’t figure out what the white powder was, so nothing to see here…

We have tens, perhaps hundreds of labs in NZ that could tell you in a few minutes.

If they though, or knew it was a benign substance then no doubt they’d want it known to clean up their image.

This makes it more likely that this was some illegal substance and they’re trying to bury the issue.

How would it impact sales and revenue if it was revealed that the reason NZ rugby has fallen off in the last few years is due to what has gone up their noses.
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October 18, 2023 3:12pm
graham

I see that Golriz Ghahraman has described Israel’s military actions as “crimes against humanity”, and said the Jewish state is “in clear breach of international law”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/israel-hamas-war-green-party-mp-golriz-ghahraman-calls-on-world-leaders-to-prevent-ethnic-cleansing-in-gaza/LGDU4LYI4BGO7C3IQPIHW6T5GM/

Funny how she found her voice and decided to fearlessly state her position after the election …
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October 18, 2023 3:13pm
- Che Guava
  
  It’s not Golriz’s opinion, though. As a legal matter, it is a fact that Israel is in breach of international law with regard to its settlements in some of all of the land it has annexed since 1967.
  
  I’m no fan of the UN, or even of the idea of international law, but if we are talking legality, then what Israel has done and is still doing is illegal:
  
  https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2021/12/five-years-after-unsc-resolution-2334-international-accountability-end
  
  “The international community must hold Israel to account for its 54-year occupation of Palestine, a UN human rights expert said today, five years after the UN Security Council passed a resolution calling for an end to all settlement activities in Palestinian territories.
  
  On the fifth anniversary of the adoption of Resolution 2334 by the United Nations Security Council, the international community has to take its own words and its own laws seriously,” said Michael Lynk, the UN Special Rapporteur for the situation of human rights in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967.
  
  Without decisive international intervention to impose accountability upon an unaccountable occupation, there is no hope that the Palestinian right to self-determination and an end to the conflict will be realized anytime in the foreseeable future,” Lynk said.
  
  Resolution 2334, adopted by the Security Council on 23 December 2016, stated that Israeli settlements constitute “a flagrant violation under international law” and said that all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, must “immediately and completely cease.””
  
  In short, the double-standard in this context (one among a wide variety) is that the “international community” is to be heard when it condemns events like the war in Ukraine, but the international community must be studiously ignored when it rules against Israel.
  
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  October 18, 2023 3:40pm
- kowtow
  
  What did she say about the atrocities at the kibbutzes ,Sderot , the music festival , the Erez crossing , if anything.
  
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  October 18, 2023 4:51pm
Maggie Pie

Read it and weep 🙁

Had it not been for the pathetic dudges, Jennifer would have been alive today.

‘One-armed killer Shane Hoko recalled to prison’

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1714411327236534672
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October 18, 2023 3:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Next arm?
  
  5 0
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  October 18, 2023 7:27pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Barry is the boss, which the whole World knows anyway.

https://newsamericanpatriot.com/rightsandfreedomnews/trump-thinks-he-knows-who-bidens-boss-is/?
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October 18, 2023 4:44pm
Maggie Pie

There’s certainly an awful lot of people out there who believe WW3 is upon us 🙁

The ones we feel for, are the sheeple who meekly surrendered their guns to Jacinda.

Just saying.
12 1
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October 18, 2023 4:55pm
- Ghost
  
  Where’s Wally 3?
  
  Found her, she’s in Boston. That was too easy, guess I have to wait now for ww4
  
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  October 18, 2023 5:18pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Hi Maggs,
  
  I didn’t meekly surrender my gun. It was made illegal to own because it held too many bullets in a tubular loader that took more than a minute to reload.
  
  The government paid me enough so I could buy a better “legal” gun with quick change magazines that enable me to fire heaps more bullets per minute. Had enough spare change left over for a really nice dinner for the wife and myself.
  
  The possums on our property are now more terrified than ever!
  
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  October 18, 2023 6:48pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And fair enuff tooo cuz!
    My partner was just saying he knows a guy fom the gun club who got paid 3k for a WW2 Russian capture Mauser that didn’t even have mtching cereal numbers!
    Reckoned be lucky it worth 5 hundy on a fine day. LOL!!
    
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    October 18, 2023 7:52pm
Phil

The bitterness runs deep on RNZ! Wallace the Pope of Woke with his two (surprise, surprise) leftist guests. One opined that we need a politician who wants more than just a bucket list tick like for instance ‘running an airline’. Another lives in Pukekohe but fortunately has managed to avoid any contact with Judith Collins. All avowed that they would dilligently police the National Party for any transgressions.

Let the tumbrils roll!
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October 18, 2023 5:00pm
- Prince
  
  I heard that. Also mocked Peters. They just don’t get it, but I guess they are so much more advanced than us that we shouldn’t presume to understand their motivations.
  Back to Podcasts for me.
  
  3 0
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  October 18, 2023 8:09pm
sht1971

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/133144326/error-means-noone-who-refused-census-will-be-prosecuted

So no worry if you refused the census as we f@$&d up. Presumably then all data is void and those who didn’t respond won’t get anything.
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October 18, 2023 6:22pm
rouppe

Well… The gangs are having a good old whine…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/waikato-mongrel-mob-leader-sonny-fatupaito-says-the-new-national-government-will-be-devastating-to-gangs/RCOC2ODRLNB43MGOMBEOF3SXMA/
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October 18, 2023 6:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Whereas the Gizzy Cops are running a shake-down on the local bad boys (& girls).
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-obtain-special-licence-to-investigate-gangs-as-tensions-rise-in-tairawhiti-gisborne/VU4HYNY4NBAQVDLKVCUUVDQE6Q/
  
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  October 18, 2023 6:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    & girls? There is a difference? Who knew?
    
    7 0
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    October 18, 2023 7:28pm
- Ghost
  
  I hope national mp’s have good security around them
  
  10 0
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  October 18, 2023 7:12pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Cry me a river!
  
  9 0
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  October 18, 2023 7:24pm
kevn

rouppe… Dreadful news. Not for NZ though.
8 0
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October 18, 2023 6:56pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/provincial/300991759/pissed-off-ranfurly-shield-repairer-believes-replacement-required
Nine months to fix this?
Send it to ‘The Repair Shop” in England, they would have it back to NZ in about a week !
What nonsense.
11 0
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October 18, 2023 7:36pm
Ghost

What an arrogant little bleep bleep bleep bleep. I bet the piece of bleep gets a slap on the wrist

A four-year-old girl was left with sustained burns to her body, including most of her face, for almost three weeks before she finally came to the attention of authorities and spent two days in a burns unit.

When she was finally taken to the hospital doctors also discovered the girl’s buttocks were raw from soiling herself in her bed because she was in so much pain, she could not get up to the toilet.

The girl’s father – who cannot be named to protect the child’s identity – is now on trial for neglecting a child under 18 after neither he nor his partner sought medical attention for the horrific injuries.

Article
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October 18, 2023 7:45pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  No words 🙁
  
  5 0
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  October 18, 2023 8:00pm
- Prince
  
  Why was the mother not also charged ?
  
  5 0
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  October 18, 2023 8:05pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Let us hope that that child is Never returned to her family whilst she is a minor.
  
  Clearly the wrap-around care that Oranga Tamariki is meant to provide was absent for at least 3 weeks.
  
  6 0
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  October 18, 2023 8:08pm
- blue collar
  
  Sigh ….
  To me , this is worse than than Israel and Palestine killing each other’s civilians.
  New Zealand needs to clean up its own backyard including all the child deaths and civilian deaths from carers , parents , and fellow citizens ….
  Before we get too carried away with other nations barbaric acts
  
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  October 18, 2023 8:12pm

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