General Debate 29 October 2023

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David Garrett

In about two hours’ time there will either be boisterous celebrations all over our fair land (I am temporarily back home) or the entire nation – or at least most of it – will plunge into a deep depression. And “Fozzie” will once again become “that [banned noun] Foster”

All wryly amusing to a jaded cove like me.
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October 29, 2023 8:10am
- Southern Raider
  
  The new rules of rugby have killed the game. First an accidental fall on a leg and now a red card for an accidental minor head bump.
  
  No coming back from this
  
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  October 29, 2023 8:47am
  - oldgolfer
    
    It is unwatchable.
    
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    October 29, 2023 11:16am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It does not seem to be going too well at half time. 😢
  
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  October 29, 2023 8:53am
- KH
  
  A. Happy to watch a rugby game – if I have nothing else to do.
  B. Increasingly a pain to watch. Stops all the time – and it’s all about the ref.
  C. Even for a good game, don’t care who wins.
  D. The patriotism is a pain
  E. Never interested in the pre or post analysis. Talking heads, boring as hell.
  
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  October 29, 2023 12:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

This referee is getting in too close behind the rucks and malls – shouting orders.
His job is to referee, not to control.
“Don’t go in there” Why not, it is a maul!
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October 29, 2023 8:19am
- pdm
  
  Steve – seems the same could apply to Beauden Barrett as well.
  
  In the last few games the All Blacks have looked their best when Richie Mo’unga has the ball in his hands as much as possible.
  
  Looks like they have gone back to the bad old ways.
  
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  October 29, 2023 8:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The ref is just pissing me off – or is it my interpretation? Twice our scrum half has had to step around him when the ball was clearly there.
    Also, Barrett is one of the players, the ref isn’t.
    
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    October 29, 2023 8:32am
    - pdm
      
      Steve my comment was directed more to the fluency, or lack of, All Black back play.
      
      Looks like a Foster team with two Yellows in first 20 minutes and Taylor very lucky not to get one for cynical play right on the goal line.
      
      Cane now a red!!!
      
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      October 29, 2023 8:44am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Not understanding the red. Did the South African who was shoulder charged go off injured, causing the upgrade?
        
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        October 29, 2023 9:12am
      - pdm
        
        See what I mean about Mo’unga even though the try by Smith was disallowed because of a prior infringement..
        
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        October 29, 2023 9:26am
- David Garrett
  
  Oh dear, here we go…and if “we” lose it will also be down to “that [banned noun] Barnes”, and the post mortems will go on until Christmas.
  
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  October 29, 2023 8:33am
  - gravedodger
    
    What are you talking about D G, didn’t think Barnes a problem, Swmbo and Self passed the Carbon date for marriage on 10/16 and her maiden name is Barnes.
    Anyway did you not proclaim a decided disinterest in footy a while back?
    
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    October 29, 2023 9:06am
    - David Garrett
      
      grave: “disinterest” does NOT mean “not interested”… Look it up.
      
      I have no interest at all in the game itself, but I find the behaviour of my fellow citizens – especially the male ones – fascinating whenever “the AB’s” are playing. And the endless most mortems are also most amusing.
      
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      October 29, 2023 9:43am
      - David Garrett
        
        …and now the blame game kicks off. “Fozzie” is back to being “that [banned noun] Foster”; the ref was biased/incompetent; the guys who watch the video when the ref is uncertain, ditto…
        
        Any suggestion of food poisoning at Our Brave Boys’ hotel?
        
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        October 29, 2023 10:10am
      - Flossie
        
        Gee I wonder why that word “schadenfreude” comes to mind?
        
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        October 29, 2023 10:36am
      - Cassandra
        
        DG Likely to make himself unpopular, having a go at the national religion and character. While it’s only a game to some it is important to many so unwise to be a smartie. Personally I think NZ was the better side. Same recollections May differ.
        
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        October 29, 2023 10:40am
  - kowtow
    
    The ref
    The food
    The coach and
    
    some years ago even the coach’s horse was a target .
    
    Some sad bods out there.
    
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    October 29, 2023 9:24am
  - Ghost
    
    It’s never that the other team was better, it’s always fault on the coach or players. Bad sportsmanship when people refuse to accept the other team was better.
    
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    October 29, 2023 11:17am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Actually, the ‘other’ team was NOT better. The AB’s crossed their line twice – one disallowed – and that with 14 men for most of the game.
      AB’s, hold your heads high.
      
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      October 29, 2023 11:48am
      - Ghost
        
        South Africa won, congratulate them instead of whinging about how you lost
        
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        October 29, 2023 11:51am
- Nickc2
  
  “Use it please!”
  Gee, that pisses me off!
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:04am
  - Ian Boag
    
    He is telling the player(s) that if they don’t use it real soon, it will be an infringement and the whistle will blow. Likewise with “roll away tackler” and “don’t go in there”.
    
    Trying to keep the game flowing and all that ….
    
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    October 29, 2023 9:15am
    - Nickc2
      
      Tell em why they have been penalised, not what to do to avoid a penalty.
      
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      October 29, 2023 10:10am
- Tomtoddy
  
  A victory for the safety zealots. Issuing red cards that remove a player creating such a massive imbalance is ruining rugby. Issue the red card if its deserved and then deal with the issue after the game. That removes the on the spot judgement calls that the refs are getting wrong.
  
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  October 29, 2023 10:21am
  - pdm
    
    I agree TT.
    
    BTW the TMO was a much bigger influence on the result than Barnes.
    
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    October 29, 2023 10:37am
Southern Raider

The UK has been lost to Islam.

100,000 masked protesters in London with some even carrying ISIS flags.

If UK ever enters a war against Muslim countries it will have a massive internal security problem.

Based on protests to support Hamas yesterday across Auckland and Wellington etc NZ is heading towards exactly the same issue
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October 29, 2023 8:50am
- kowtow
  
  Germany and France have in excess of 5 mil each.
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:25am
  - Southern Raider
    
    And having up to a dozen kids each
    
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    October 29, 2023 9:43am
    - cmm
      
      Yup, they have all the time in the world living on the jizyah they impose on the West through social welfare.
      
      The West cannot survive this demographic onslaught.
      
      Exactly the same is happening in NZ, just a few years behind. The number of Muslim families in NZ with 6 or more kids demanding bigger houses is astounding.
      
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      October 29, 2023 10:55am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    The head of French Intelligence has been warning about this for some time and if the Fr Army has to go into the Banlieus it will be a FISHING operation.
    
    Fighting In Someone’s House!!!
    
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    October 29, 2023 10:34am
- G152
  
  Well they all just got back from the Global warming protest so it was a change of flags and vocals.
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:45am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I have been saying for years that there will be a civil war in the UK/EU.
  
  It will be between the indigenous Europeans and those that want to live there in harmony and the Islamic invaders.
  
  It will be bloody and brutal.
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:52am
  - mawm
    
    THE WRATH OF THE AWAKENED SAXON
    Rudyard Kipling
    
    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late,
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the Saxon began to hate.
    
    Read the whole thing.
    
    http://www.europeanamericansunited.org/school1/Fiction/kipling/awakened.htm
    
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    October 29, 2023 12:58pm
  - Dougal10
    
    The irony is the first wave on immigrants are trying to leave the shit behind and the next waves bring in those who turn the new place into the same shit fight the first ones were escaping from.
    
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    October 29, 2023 2:41pm
- artemisia
  
  But what about all the FREE THE HOSTAGES placards.
  
  Oh, wait ….
  
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  October 29, 2023 10:29am
- Inthe09
  
  Yes and I wonder how many of the local ‘non-Muslim’ population will take matters into the own hands and fight back. Large parts of the population have no faith in the Army/Police etc to protect them any longer.
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:36pm
Morry45

I’m not sure Barnes will be holidaying in NZ anytime soon.
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October 29, 2023 9:01am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Haha word for word what my son said during the first half!!
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:18am
Littletramp

A classic example of why Foster is not the right man for the National team – half time comments “Yeah we feel they are tiring and we should finish strong”.
Does he not realise the Springboks chose a huge forward pack to dominate, knowing they would replace 7 of them just after half time with a fresh set of monsters? Duh!
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October 29, 2023 9:08am
- jon
  
  Bang goes Foster’s knighthood!
  
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  October 29, 2023 10:14am
  - Observant Octagenarian
    
    Yes, he will become “NotSirIan”!
    
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    October 29, 2023 12:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Last night I tuned into TV One news expecting to get some detail about the Israeli Army’s entry into Gaza, but after 18+ minutes chatter about rugby, I decided to feed the ducks and cook our dinner.

Then I tuned into AlJazeera to get some news.

Talk about Bread & Circuses being fed to the NZ taxpayer from our national broadcaster.
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October 29, 2023 9:15am
- Flossie
  
  Exactly what happened in this house Maggy. Oh minus the feeding the ducks bit.
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:22am
- Ghost
  
  Oh, was there a rugby game last night? Did you see soon to be retired mp Grant Robertson?
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:23am
  - peterwn
    
    Game still on. Second half due to start.
    
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    October 29, 2023 9:26am
    - Ghost
      
      Thanks, I’ll avoid the tv for a bit longer
      
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      October 29, 2023 9:53am
- graham
  
  Same here Maggy. SWMBO and I have little interest in rugby, and ended up skipping through virtually all the so-called “news”. I think we watched maybe 5 minutes worth of actual news and the weather for our area.
  
  My wife tends to read most of her news on the BBC website, and most nights will comment about an important story that hasn’t been shown on our “premier news outlet”, or is shown two days after she read about it on the Beeb.
  
  Anyone who is relying solely on TV One News to be informed about what is happening around the world is missing out big time. Fortunately I suspect there are very few people like that now. Even my wife, who is (a) someone of deeply ingrained habits and has ALWAYS watched the news on TV One every night for the past 40 years; and (b) generally very slow to adopt new technology, now watches largely out of habit. The vast majority of her news now comes from the Internet and from overseas websites.
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:32am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Wait for the post-mortem of the game on the news tonight! I’m unsure why we need female commentators womansplaining a men’s rugby match – it’s annoying and adds nothing.
    
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    October 29, 2023 11:02am
- G152
  
  Al jazeera is propoganda not news.
  Everything is Israels fault, the commentators are virtually screaming that hamas are good guys who are misunderstood.
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:48am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Al jazeera is propoganda not news.
    
    Tell me a news channel that doesn’t peddle propaganda.
    
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    October 29, 2023 10:23am
    - mawm
      
      100x this.^^^
      
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      October 29, 2023 1:02pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      A J is up there. The Arabic version is apparently vile.
      
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      October 29, 2023 2:51pm
    - Simon Arnold
      
      Me, I start the day with feeds from Reuters, DV, WSJ, Business Desk, Politik and Brian Wang. I check Al Jazeera, BBC, CNN and Fox (the worst of all the above).
      
      On to Kiwiblog, Newshub, Newsroom, NZ Herald, Stuff and Twitter. Brief look at the local Facebook pages and on to LinkedIn.
      
      15 mins of my life gone and I then join the real world.
      
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      October 29, 2023 6:55pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Al Jazeera is Qatar’s state broadcaster. Qatar pays the bills.
    
    Hamas’ leadership live in hotels in Qatar. Qatar pays their bills.
    
    So don’t ever expect Al Jazeera to give you a balanced view of Israel-Palestine issues.
    
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    October 29, 2023 1:52pm
Benedict Yu

This is pretty funny.

The EPA in the USA has concluded that mandating ethanol to be added to petrol has “zero to minimal” benefits for emissions. Simply because all the energy required to harvest and process the corn. 🤡

https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/climate-energy/ethanol-groups-slam-us-epa-advisors-report-fuels-minimal-climate-benefit-2023-09-21/

Now the ethanol producers and corn farmers are melting down 😂 telling the EPA that it is wrong. For reasons. 😂

This is what happens when vested interests benefit from idiotic policies.

It almost happened in New Zealand. Megan Woods was determined to introduce a biofuels mandate. She was sure she was right and everyone else was wrong. Except in New Zealand it would have been more crazy with some of the biofuels transported to New Zealand on ships burning fuel. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/powering-nz%E2%80%99s-future-biofuels

Chris Hipkins killed it. At least he got that right.
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October 29, 2023 9:43am
- Ian Boag
  
  So they harvest the corn and ferment it. Next step is distillation done in a – wait for it – coal fired still 🙂
  
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  October 29, 2023 10:32am
- NZer In Exile
  
  E10 (is “up to” 10% ethanol and is 94 Octane) is the cheapest fuel in Aus. I’ve been running a hybrid on it for over 4 years. 😊
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:33pm
- virtualmark
  
  And meanwhile the land used for growing corn to make the ethanol could instead be used to grow food for people.
  
  But … corporations love the subsidies. While they rage about “socialism”.
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:54pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Apparently the subsidies thing with ethanol fuel additive is a myth. It’s apparently cheaper in it’s own right than other anti knock additives and is traded on open markets.
    
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    October 29, 2023 2:17pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      In Aus I believe they use sugar cane and wheat waste to make the ethanol. Probably a better use of sugar cane than making cancer/diabetes/cardiac disease inducing sugary crap “food” and drinks.
      
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      October 29, 2023 3:07pm
      - Jack5
        
        Ethanol from whey didn’t seem to work out for Fonterra:
        
        https://ruralnewsgroup.co.nz/dairy-news/dairy-general-news/fonterra-moving-on-from-ethanol
        
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        October 29, 2023 4:21pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        It’s a good piece, thanks for linking it, but it’s not as if the ethanol doesn’t work. It’s the economics that didn’t fit, like spending 6c to make 5c. What you want with biofuel, or any business, is to get 3c and turn it into 5c for a cost of 1c
        
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        October 29, 2023 4:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Free Speech Union.

Coverage of our Taupo Case
Last week, Jonathan told you about the case we have taken to the Human Rights Review Tribunal against Taupo District Council It’s received a fair bit of coverage; these were three of my favorite articles:

Free Speech Goes on Trial:

Health and Safety Concerns a ruse:

Taupo Council Accused of quashing free speech:

Jonathan and the team have stayed in touch with Councilors at Taupo Council who are also concerned about this issue, but apparently, the Chief Executive isn’t willing to answer questions on this issue, even from elected members!

We don’t think Council bureaucrats outrank local representatives- if Councillors have questions, the CEO needs to step up and answer them.

Steve, I thought you might like to help us raise these questions.

Send a polite email to jgardyne@taupo.govt.nz asking these questions:

1/ Did TDC breach its contract agreement with the meeting applicant by making a public announcement in March regarding the date and venue?

2/ Does the Senjo contract arrangement with TDC allow them to discretionarily pull out as they did here?

3/ Why did TDC allow a booking at the same venue for a potential opposition group that clearly would complicate security arrangements?

Let’s see if we can get some sense out of Taupo Council staff.

The 3 links that did not work with the copy and paste:

https://www.waikatotimes.co.nz/a/nz-news/350097146/free-speech-goes-trial-taupo

https://www.waikatotimes.co.nz/a/nz-news/350097464/health-and-safety-concerns-ruse-cancelled-booking-says-free-speech-union

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/taupo-district-council-accused-of-quashing-free-speech-after-cancelling-co-governance-campaign-event/
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October 29, 2023 9:48am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  I’d love to know the downvoters’ rationale. Free speech not a big deal for you people?
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:42pm
  - sirknz
    
    Speech they disagree with is a problem for them usually.
    
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    October 29, 2023 5:21pm
Flossie

One conclusion I have reached after the game is that Foster will not be farewelled by NZ Rugby with a knighthood.
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October 29, 2023 10:09am
- Matt Long
  
  He had a great strategy for his legacy, his past results are so dire that coming second in the World Cup is seen as a victory.
  The Grant Robertson hoodoo worked.
  
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  October 29, 2023 6:08pm
jon

Smart move by Christopher Luxon NOT to go to Paris!
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October 29, 2023 10:10am
Purple Panther

Wayne Barnes was #3 hated man in NZ in 2007.
Surely tonight’s effort pushes him up to #1 hated man in NZ.
True Champion 👏
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October 29, 2023 10:14am
- Don Beckett
  
  Barnes actually didn’t do that bad – it was the TMO’s who were the problem.
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:51am
  - MCōs
    
    It was the blokes who got the cards and the other blokes who missed the goal kicks.
    
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    October 29, 2023 3:45pm
Benedict Yu

I had a $20 bet on South Africa. Now I can justify a higher quality bottle of wine tonight to drown out all the wailing. 🙂
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October 29, 2023 10:20am
- NK
  
  Me too, @$6.50 about three months ago 😎
  
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  October 29, 2023 10:56am
NothingLeft

https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/pfizer-hid-data-covid-vaccine-trial-deaths/
A must-read on the medical bullshittery hidden in the Pfizer Covid vaccine trial, hidden deaths, serious lack of data collection rigor, wild (and damning) statistical anomalies pointing to likely malfeasance:

“Assuming that age-adjusted death rates for the study subjects were similar to those of the general population, they estimated that 222 subjects should have died from July 27, 2020, to March 13, 2021. The reported number, 38, is just 18% of the expected number.

Michels explained this by the large number, 4.2% of “discontinued subjects.” The most concerning of these were subjects “lost to follow-up,” which means missing scheduled visits or other required activities.

Pfizer-BioNTech tried to reach these subjects via phone, certified mail or through their emergency contact but despite their efforts could not account for 395 subjects who had dropped out.

“These are not insignificant numbers and could easily account for the low number of deaths reported in this safety period of the trial. Given the importance of knowing the status of each trial subject, there should have been greater effort to locate these individuals.”
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October 29, 2023 10:28am
- mawm
  
  The trials certainly have the appearance of being fraudulent, if not criminal. Does this mean we can sue Pfizer now? Imprison those who sold the lie?
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:07pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Pfizer will be ‘managed’ to bankruptcy only to re-emerge as another entity if their liability shield comes off.
    
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    October 29, 2023 1:53pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    If you can’t sue Phizer organization because the’ve go bankcrupt then sue the individual managers and stockholders.
    
    The USA is a very litigious country and I suspect there would be numerous legal organizations willing to take that on pro-bono on a percentage basis.
    
    It doesn’t have to be a rich person or big organization to start this process. There are a number of examples of small companies and individuals taking on large organizations successfully.
    
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    October 29, 2023 7:27pm
- Nickc2
  
  Didn’t we have a PM and Minister for Health/Covid somewhere in our not-too-distant past who signed off to the effect that we wouldn’t sue Pfizer over any malfunctions of their product and told us peasants to only trust/believe utterances from the Podium of Truth (POT)?
  No wonder the bitch pulled the plug and took off to overseas habitations for safety reasons eh? When will our soon-to-be immediate-past PM follow suit with his newfound squeeze?
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:08pm
Maggie Pie

Just back from Mass and heard the result driving home 🙁

What did I say last week when it was announced the ‘Sports Minister’
was heading to gay Paree?
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October 29, 2023 10:31am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Feel guilty all you happy atheists out there.
  Maggie’s been to Mass again.
  
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  October 29, 2023 10:48am
- krazykiwi
  
  I when to church .. and we showed the game on our big screen, had halftime breakfast, then started the church service at 10:30
  
  Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and render unto God what is God’s 😉
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:57pm
Opie

And people wonder why rugby viewers are leaving in droves to watch league.

Compare this final to the nrl grand final.

One was played at high speed with great skill and intensity, the other had 3 send offs for accidental contact. It’s a contact sport ffs.

But but the south African player should have also been a red card. No, accidental head clash vs a shoulder to the head.

A once great game ruined by over regulation and over zealous refereeing.

A fitting end to foster and canes tenure. Poor selections (coles and roiguard anyone?), poor tactics and the captain invisible as always, only this time because he was sent off for a tackle that would have hardly raised an eyebrow in a league final.
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October 29, 2023 10:33am
- krazykiwi
  
  “ruined by over regulation”
  
  True for economies, societies, and sports.
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:58pm
NothingLeft

Powerful chinese organ harvesting from teenage students?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5VnqhBMGvk

High school student with rare blood type disappears from within a boarding school. Extremely detailed surveillance systems of school and Chinese state fail to find any trace of him.
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October 29, 2023 10:41am
- Jake Dee
  
  It’s an interesting story, some of it is probably true but how can know if any particular detail is actually true?
  I’m constantly trying to hone mt counter-propaganda skills and I’ve come up with a few rules of thumb,
  Anonymous sources have very low credibility, about as low as some random dude you just met down the pub. Lower than that in this case as they won’t even tell you their name.
  Who or what is “China Insights”? and why are no personal names given? Why do they use a robot voice? As using a name that could be cross referenced would only raise their credibility this looks very suspicious.
  Another point I’ve come to appreciate is that although a magician can create an illusion, they can’t sustain it indefinitely. Watch the stage from many angles hour after hour, day after day and an illusion will fall apart but reality won’t.
  So, will we be receiving on going up dates in the coming weeks about the investigation into this disappearing student? I doubt it. If “China Insights” is a serious news organization they will, if they are a spooky “China Bad!” propaganda outfit, they won’t.
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:28pm
- Ghost
  
  According to the news when found he wasn’t missing any organs and didn’t have a rare blood type
  
  https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/death-of-teenager-revives-fears-of-china-organ-trade-8pmxvcflb
  
  And according to this article he committed suicide
  
  https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202302/1284678.shtml
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:40pm
Don Beckett

Well – what a shambles of a World Cup Rugby final, & I don’t blame Barnes, I blame the TV referees who scrutinise to the Nth. degree all the back play. Over 30 mins of checking whether or not there was an infringement.
If Sam Cane’s yellow was upgraded to a red, why wasn’t Kolisi’s – IMO his infringement was more egregious than Cane’s.
And the knock on at the line out that disallowed Smith’s try – to me it looked like the ball went forward off his knee – not his hand. The analysis and pearl clutching will go on for months.
I do consider, however that the moral victory goes the the AB’s – scored twice against the Boks who have never previously had a try scored against them in a RWC final – even if the first try was disallowed. Also, they played most of the game with only 14 men and that showed a huge amount of heart, guts and talent – and I don’t have any bad words for Foster – he did his best as coach.
No Silver/Goldware in the cabinet for another 4 years. 🙂
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October 29, 2023 10:55am
- Prince
  
  Bledisloe, Tri-Nations (or whatever it is), and the cup the Sheilas won last year.
  
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  October 29, 2023 12:57pm
- Opie
  
  Cane – shoulder to the head from an upright position. Red ( I hate the rules too)
  
  Kolosi – accidental head clash and he was bent over. Wouldn’t have even stopped play in league.
  
  The tmo wouldn’t have had to get involved if Barnes could see what was going on during the game. He missed half a dozen knock ons and forward passes ( including the try the abs did get).
  
  A terrible referee out of his depth with a set of rules design to dumb down the sport.
  
  You get what you vote for.
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:04pm
- Nickc2
  
  TMOs can and do view players’ actions many many times and then penalise a player for not avoiding the action they took so long to pass judgment on. All this while said player(s) has less than a nano-second to pull out of an action they are committed to. This practice sucks.
  Then, to top it off, TMOs can and do review plays leading up to and during the awarding of a Yellow Card with a view to upgrading the card to Red. Once again, this practice sucks!
  The TMOs don’t review Yellow cards with a view to withdrawing to card and putting the player(s) back on the field immediately eh?
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:35pm
- Opie
  
  A moral victory huh. Whatever helps you get through.
  
  Second try should have been ruled out as well. Clearly forward from telea to barrett
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:28pm
Prince

What a heartbreak !
Terrible first half, no discipline, dropped balls, contentious calls.
Great comeback second half, backs to wall, at times a win even looked likely, just couldn’t quite finish the job.
Just five runs short. Gutted.
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October 29, 2023 11:08am
- Southern Raider
  
  Going forward the All Blacks need to fine any player who does a box kick. In recent years we recover at most 5% from those kicks
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:37am
  - Flossie
    
    But what about the Black Caps going forward?
    
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    October 29, 2023 5:02pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/please-help-us-get-our-billboards-up-around-the-country/
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October 29, 2023 11:09am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tucker Carlson.
Is Joe Biden pushing America toward collapse?

https://patriotpulse.net/tucker-carlson-raised-a-scary-red-flag-about-how-joe-biden-is-destroying-america/?
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October 29, 2023 11:21am
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300993866/youre-the-enemy-noel-edmonds-cycleway-rant-and-a-meeting-of-conspiracy-theorists
This guy Edmonds moves here and buys a property in a semi isolated area for peace and quiet.
So does he have private property rights? Or not?
This report has a lot assumptions and judgements included about conspiracy theorists, anti-Vaxxers and other “wrong think” people included in an attempt to discredit some rich prick foreigner who has bought property here.
But worst of all, he doesn’t want to give up part of his property for a cycle way.
Why should he?
The casual entitlement of some of these bike riders who think they should be able to just tell the land owner what to do, coz – cycling – is out of hand:
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October 29, 2023 11:23am
- KiwiSapper
  
  The casual entitlement of some of these bike riders who think they should be able to just tell the land owner what to do, coz – cycling – is out of hand:’
  
  The arrogance of their “entitlement” is unconstrained. Well done Edmonds for standing up to it.
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:33am
  - mawm
    
    I fail to see where entitled cyclists tried to tell the land owner what to do. They approached him about being able to put the trail through his land. He didn’t want it but behaved in a rather appalling manner in response to the approach. They are putting the cycle path elsewhere.
    
    Many small towns in NZ have been saved by the NZ Cycle Trail – Nga Haerenga, going through them. John Key was right; it has brought in lots of tourism, and now the elderly on their e-bikes are also enjoying it in their droves.
    
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    October 29, 2023 1:20pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      ROI?
      
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      October 29, 2023 1:51pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Mawm: serious question. Do we really get a lot of cycle tourism now? Where from? Age groups?
      Same with elderly. I know they’re buying E-bikes, but I haven’t heard of these cycleways busy with them (or anyone for that matter). Whereabouts?
      I see below Virtualmark has posted a couple of places. But what are the numbers exactly?
      
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      October 29, 2023 2:11pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Just watch out for those gangs of terrorising E-bike grannies.
        
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        October 29, 2023 2:27pm
      - mawm
        
        Observer – look at the “Tour Aotearoa: General Forum” Facebook page about foreign queries. Look at the list of foreign entrants to the “Tour” web page. They are from around the world – US, UK, Aus, Europe and Asia. They are a mix of youth and middle-aged cyclists.
        
        I was went through a town on the Central Otago Rail Trail 2 years ago. Each evening large groups of retirees rode in on e-bikes, and filled the pubs and restaurants to the seams. The same is happening on the various sectors of the NZ Cycle Trail throughout NZ.
        
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        October 29, 2023 3:21pm
  - virtualmark
    
    I recommend you hop on a bike and ride the Central Otago Rail Trail. Or the Mountains-to-the-Sea trail.
    
    Just take a look at the number of cafes, and motels, and other services that are capturing good business for otherwise struggling communities.
    
    Elsewhere in the article Edmonds complains that he’s losing lots of money on his cafe and store. Well… might not hurt to have lots of hungry and thirsty cyclists going past.
    
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    October 29, 2023 1:57pm
    - artemisia
      
      Streisand Effect.
      
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      October 29, 2023 3:12pm
- rouppe
  
  You should read the other piece where he’s bought about 10 other properties.
  
  He’s not popular in the area
  
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  October 29, 2023 9:08pm
rockape

Two things you can put money on for an ABs match. Cane getting sent off and kiwis winging about the ref.
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October 29, 2023 11:24am
- Southern Raider
  
  The ref was average. The TMO was woeful
  
  Who in World Rugby thought putting four English refs in charge of a global showcase was a good idea
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:36am
  - Opie
    
    What did the tmo get wrong?
    
    He stepped in when Barnes missed the knock on in the lead up to smith’s try.
    
    Although he should have ruled a knock on from telea for barrels try.
    
    Apart from that, all he did was cover for Barnes who appeared to not be watching the game
    
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    October 29, 2023 1:09pm
    - rouppe
      
      He didn’t apply the same situational awareness to Siya Kolisi. I cannot see how that wasn’t as deserving of a red card if Cane’s was.
      
      Given that knock on happened because of the illegal arm grab in the line out, a play-on advantage might have been appropriate.
      
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      October 29, 2023 9:18pm
Maggie Pie

Haven’t owned a bike since I was a child.
But if I did have one today, this is an ‘optional-extra’ I’d definately have fitted….

https://twitter.com/XvideoViral/status/1715311435243286962
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October 29, 2023 11:29am
- NZer In Exile
  
  That would cause serious grievous injury (if real). If caught the owner would probably be looking at jail. The thieves are sht head scum but that kind of injury should not be the punishment meted out (for bicycle theft).
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:38pm
Benedict Yu

“Speaking at the press conference, Israel’s prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu said the offensive in Gaza will be “difficult and long”.

He added that Israel is fighting its “second war of independence,” as he said: “We always said never again – never again is now.””

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-palestine-hamas-war-gaza-invasion-latest-b2437747.html

Well that is clear. António Guterres can just to continue to stamp his feet.
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October 29, 2023 11:30am
- Southern Raider
  
  In the meantime Antonio was laughing and shaking hands with representatives from Iran.
  
  Will be interesting what Israel finds in Gaza that links Hamas to the UN
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:33am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    By their own words, Hamas would do to the Jews exactly what the Nazis did. Kill every last one of them. Which is why the IDF will eradicate Hamas, whatever the cost and whatever criticism comes from the UN.
    
    If Iran were to enter this conflict with missile attacks on Israel population centres causing mass casualties, Israel would launch a massive retaliation, including using nuclear weapons if necessary.
    
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    October 29, 2023 11:59am
    - Guy Montag
      
      There are already mass casualties, but as most of them are Palestinian, this seems to be acceptable in many peoples eyes.
      
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      October 29, 2023 1:51pm
      - kowtow
        
        The marchers seem to think the outrages of the morning of Oct 7 is “acceptable”.
        
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        October 29, 2023 3:16pm
      - JimBobJoe
        
        If you assault a sovereign country and expect no retaliation you are either stupid or really stupid.
        
        Hamas provoked Israel by killing hundreds of Israelis…. now they reap the whirlwind.
        
        Hamas is obviously looking to gather western sympathy to force Israel to comply with Hamas demands…. Eff Hamas should be the response
        
        The Middle East like lots of other areas where rule of law is a foreign concept, only understands overwhelming force.
        
        Israel cant be shackled by Western concepts of right and wrong when to do nothing invites Annihilation – they are faced by a foe that promises genocide under the sweet slogan of From the River to the Sea.
        
        It is going to be barbaric and bloody. But any Gazan who wants out can leave via the southern border. I am sure Hamas funders Qatar and Iran will gladly accept those Gazans as refugees. Heck Qatar like all Gulf States employs nigh on slave labour from the sub continent – all the Gazans looking for better life can replace the Bangladeshis etc and do the work Qatars are too good for..
        
        Oh and if Iran wants to use its catspaw of Hizbollah to open a second front I hope Israel reigns venegence down on them as well…
        
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        October 29, 2023 3:42pm
      - rouppe
        
        Does your memory not go back to when Hamas terrorists murdered women and children?
        
        Hamas is a terrorist organisation. Gaza residents voted for Hamas. None of the video coming from Gaza has civilians saying “Hamas are terrorists, we are sorry, please stop”. It’s all “Israel is attacking us, why?”
        
        Having said that, if Israel’s goal is elimination of Hamas, it would seem that the only way to achieve that is elimination of Gaza. And that is a step beyond what most would be comfortable with
        
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        October 29, 2023 9:04pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Sorry, but it can’t be done. Israel cannot destroy Hamas. As long as the conditions that created Hamas still exist it will continue to exist in some form. Action will only create a reaction.
      Even if every last one of them is killed in Gaza, it will grow elsewhere. Any nation that wants some leverage over Israel or America will harbor and support them and there are plenty of groups like that. Pakistan and Afghanistan are obvious places.
      And nuclear weapons although powerful are not some instant win trump card. Is there any scenario in which Israel using the bomb doesn’t make thing a lot worse for everyone involved?
      
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      October 29, 2023 3:44pm
Southern Raider

Labour leaves with another record of All Blacks loosing a World Cup while Labour is in power. Even as a caretaker Govt they stuff it up
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October 29, 2023 11:32am
Southern Raider

Has [Mod – use correct names] Golriz Ghahraman made any public statement on the Iranian teenager who was murdered by the morality Police?
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October 29, 2023 11:34am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t know, but to give her credit she is a strong critic of the Iranian regime, and the morality police, and is active in supporting the rights of women in Iran.
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:53am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    That’s all very well, but let’s remember she voted to introduce a wealth tax, wants to silence free speech in this country…..and even went out with that moron Guy Williams 🙁
    
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    October 29, 2023 12:09pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes but those things are unrelated to the question asked by Southern Raider.
      
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      October 29, 2023 12:21pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Yu can be sooo silly sometimes! I was replying to YOUR comment about wantng to give her credit for something.
        
        SHEESH!!
        
        11 6
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        October 29, 2023 12:43pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    I have never seen her stand up for women or critise the mad mullahs.
    
    17 2
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    October 29, 2023 12:43pm
    - Ghost
      
      Here is one of a number of articles over the past few years
      
      Protesters in Iran ‘dying on the street’ but govt remains silent – Green MP
      
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      October 29, 2023 12:50pm
      - Ghost
        
        Here’s another one
        
        Iranian-born MP Golriz Ghahraman confronted the Iranian ambassador with images of Mahsa Amini and protesters killed since her death in an at times heated meeting at Parliament about the Islamic Republic’s response to the protests and executions that have drawn widespread condemnation.
        
        Article
        
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        October 29, 2023 12:53pm
  - Taieri
    
    she is a strong critic of the Iranian regime, and the morality police, and is active in supporting the rights of women in Iran
    ————-
    
    Is this what she was elected to the NZ Parliament for?
    
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    October 29, 2023 3:30pm
  - GJM
    
    Is she against the hijab? Did she support Cindy emoting while wearing one, while women were under attack for protesting about them? a
    
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    October 29, 2023 8:16pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  More woke brainwashing than islamist brainwashing it would appear.
  
  Mind you, having spoken to many “secular” (in their actions) people from Iran, Saudi Arabia and Iraq, ALL eventually came out with very strongly entrenched and nasty anti-Semitic conspiracy theories (IE “Jews” were behind 9/11 and various other obviously islamist terror attacks etc etc).
  
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  October 29, 2023 1:40pm
Jack5

Student visa rorts in other countries…

Canada tightening up on student visa entry (General Debate, yesterday), and now UK universities are swamped with foreign students claiming asylum:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12683921/Immigration-chiefs-warn-universities-THOUSANDS-foreign-students-claim-asylum-months-arriving-Britain.html
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October 29, 2023 12:29pm
Surely Knott

Stuffs latest smear piece. Stuff destroys a mans reputation. His crime seems he doesn’t want to grant a govt cycleway access. It is planned to go along the road, but they would prefer the nicer route on his private property.

” The trust was hoping to get his permission to cut through some of his property, so it wasn’t so close to the road on public reserve land.”

““I turned up with a contractor, expecting to have a conversation about practicalities of the project, go for a wander, see how we could make it work for everyone,” Crisp recalls.”

Why would you turn up with a contractor expecting to discuss the “practicalities” when you hadn’t even asked whether the guy wanted your cycleway on his private property! Madness.

And then they go full hit job on him.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300993866/youre-the-enemy-noel-edmonds-cycleway-rant-and-a-meeting-of-conspiracy-theorists
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October 29, 2023 1:00pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Unless they are very stupid, Stuff very likely keeps track of the number of people clicking on certain articles.
  
  What is not so certain is if Stuff keeps track of the number of people bailing and clicking “back” after reading a few lines of their article.
  
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  October 29, 2023 8:10pm
Cassandra

NZ voted for UN ceasefire call; UK & Australia abstained; Fiji voted against. NZ as usual associates with Iran, Russia and Venezuela. And we wonder why others think we’re a bit strange!
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October 29, 2023 1:11pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  NZ is mostly a woke/activist commune funded off the backs of the ~50% of the country who aren’t grifting charlatans. The amount of people caught up in woo, religion and childish/naive activism is quite staggering.
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:04pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Will we have continuing, sniveling sycophancy to the UN and unelected global elites under Luxon’s watch? I’ve not heard anything from him before or after the election that suggests any change to the status quo.
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:09pm
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  NZ would. MFAT is dripping with leftwing sympathiser groupthink that includes running scared of Arab trading partners, as well as general antipathy towards Israel. They will also toe the line of the current Minister, Mahuta and Hamas-loving Labour and Greens.
  
  The recent photo with the sympathiser Labour and Green MPs and Ministers all dressed up in Yasser Arafat head scarves was appalling.
  
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  October 29, 2023 11:31pm
Chuck Bird

After seeing Q & A this morning I definitely think Peters should be Minister of Broadcasting.
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October 29, 2023 2:08pm
- kevn
  
  Chuck… Who was todays victim?
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:29pm
  - kowtow
    
    With our te media pardy , the victim is the truth.
    
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    October 29, 2023 3:39pm
Ghost

Beloved Friends star Matthew Perry has died, TMZ reports.

Law enforcement sources have revealed that the actor was found on Saturday at a LA home where it allegedly appeared he had drowned.

Sources say that first responders had received a call to the property for a person suffering cardiac arrest.

Article
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October 29, 2023 2:09pm
- kowtow
  
  Emergency call for cardiac arrest but found drowned.
  
  Sounds like the outline for a plot of ‘Murder , she wrote’.
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:14pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Quite sad, I kinda liked his work and we are of similar age. But putting together some pieces, Hollywood actor who did well early, had drug and alcohol problems, hasn’t done much recently, found dead in a pool at age 54.
  80~90% drug overdose of some kind.
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Humour (I think.) Jimmy Fallon.
Trump gets arrested. Nelson Mandela was arrested. Jesus was arrested – and said “JESUS!”

Trump Finally Gets Arrested, Marjorie Taylor Greene Compares Trump to Jesus | The Tonight Show

Don’t know where to cut the shit off sorry. [Mod – done]
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October 29, 2023 2:11pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Cheers Mod.
  
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  October 29, 2023 2:57pm
Drone

On this fine Sunday afternoon in the Capital city, as most of the thugby boys are getting over their disappointment the Young New Zealander of the year has written a fabulous opinion piece for you all https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaneel-lal-weighing-the-coalition-options/6QFF37QOVJDVPNHPYVEWUXPR2M/
Read it and weep for the future of New Zealand, think of the baubles that will be offered..
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October 29, 2023 3:00pm
- kevn
  
  Drone… Sorry, you were first with this enlightening comment from the NZer of the Year.
  
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  October 29, 2023 4:12pm
Ghost

Trans age, I like that, will have to use it. He’s a professor in the psychology department

A regional swimming competition in Canada was caught allowing a 50-year-old man who claims to be transgender to race against 13- and 14-year-old girls, then tried to deny it happened after a reporter quizzed them over it.

Article
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October 29, 2023 3:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I wonder if the teenagers beat him.
  
  8 0
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  October 29, 2023 5:15pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Maybe as a badass gang in the changing room: quote
    
    Rebel News was unable to determine whether “Melody Wiseheart” was allowed to use the girls’ locker room to dress and undress for the meet.
    
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    October 29, 2023 5:32pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Won, or off, or to a pulp?
    3 is a good idea.
    
    3 1
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    October 29, 2023 5:36pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Wow ! Presuming that this is accurate we have Nicholas Cepeda, 50 years old going by the name of Dr. melody Wiseheart, getting into the pool with young girls. They are a professional psychologist whose interests include “youth”, “children” and “cognitive processes”.
  This would be like me buying a pair of leather pants, changing my name to Professor Rock Hardcastle and hanging around locker rooms offering free back rubs and massage therapy.
  I’m not saying this guy is a dangerous freak. I’m saying there’s a 95% chance that this guy is a dangerous freak.
  
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  October 29, 2023 7:04pm
kevn

Don’t laugh…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/shaneel-lal-weighing-the-coalition-options/6QFF37QOVJDVPNHPYVEWUXPR2M/
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October 29, 2023 3:26pm
- Jack5
  
  The Herald subeditors is off they’s rockers in they’s description of Shaneel at the foot of they/them’s article:
  
  “Shaneel Shavneel Lal (they/them) was instrumental in the bill to ban conversion therapy in New Zealand. They are a law and psychology student, model and influencer.”
  
  That’s what those thar State subsidies can do to they’s English-language rags.
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:45pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  I tried my level best to control my vomit. How low the left can stoop?
  
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  October 29, 2023 6:39pm
NZer In Exile

Footnote on article:

“Shaneel Shavneel Lal (they/them) was instrumental in the bill to ban conversion therapy in New Zealand. They are a law and psychology student, model and influencer.”
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October 29, 2023 3:30pm
- Chris Nisbet
  
  How many of him are there?
  Oh, the silly games we play trying to make some people happy.
  
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  October 29, 2023 6:10pm
Maggie Pie

When I showed my partner this vid of Hamas displaying rows of dead bodies,
he came up with…. “The first casualty of war is the truth”

It sums this up beautifully. Straight out of Pallywood 😀

https://twitter.com/Me_Unstoppable2/status/1718379650936672258
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October 29, 2023 3:47pm
- Ghost
  
  Video is from 2013
  
  https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1712304090120687907
  
  Found the original video from 10 years ago
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJhYaF-xxOo
  
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  October 29, 2023 3:56pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    This whole thing rapidly becomes a hall of mirrors with “he said she said they said” with chains of reflections, bunk, debunk and counter-bunk reaching so far you’d need a supercomputer to track them. A actor can create a false debunk with accurate images but referring to a message their opposition never sent. As it’s a disinformationist rule never to include the exact message they are debunking, how can you really know?
    Learning some mental self-defense is essential.
    
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    October 29, 2023 4:10pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner reckons you sound like the sort of person that would go round the streets removing Posters of Israeli hostages.
    
    Just saying.
    
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    October 29, 2023 4:12pm
    - Ghost
      
      Well if you and your partner, if he exists, want to spread fake shit claiming it is fake shit, you should get your facts right.
      
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      October 29, 2023 4:13pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        So, you’re not exactly a ‘friendly ghost’ afterall? 🙁
        
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        October 29, 2023 4:21pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        but where exactly is the lie? Where is the fake? I’m going to do this in a general way to avoid getting too hot and personal towards anyone.
        If we have several competing stories, they can’t all be true (but they could all be fake).
        If party X says party Y is a liar because they ran statement A with picture B which don’t fit, we can’t just say that Y is a liar even if the picture and the story don’t fit. X could be the liar if we can’t prove exactly what Y said.
        A debunk can also be propaganda.
        
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        October 29, 2023 4:28pm
      - Ghost
        
        Easy, the fake shit is the claim this video is Hamas displaying rows of dead bodies. It’s proved fake with the video of it from 2013 showing exactly what it is.
        
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        October 29, 2023 4:36pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        No easy at all. How do you know that Hamas (party Y in my formula) actually made that claim?
        I’m not saying that anyone can easily claim to be anyone else on the internet, but it’s pretty damned easy.
        How far back can you trace the chain of attribution and to what degree of certainly? Most people will just follow the chain until they get to evidence that supports the conclusion that they had beforehand and then stop. That’s how propagandists suck you in.
        Radical skepticism of EVERYTHING has to be your starting point.
        
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        October 29, 2023 4:48pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, apparently dead bodies can move under body bags, well in Hollywood anyway. I jokingly tell my wife that Stephen from Coro escapes from the body bag he was placed in after being run down and ‘killed’.
  
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  October 29, 2023 5:15pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    And although David Copperfield has walked through the great wall of China, levitated across the grand canyon and gone over Niagra falls, construction companies still won’t use him on major transportation infrastructure projects. He’s still just doing magic shows in Las Vegas, what a terrible waste of his occult powers.
    
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    October 29, 2023 6:42pm
kevn

Ghost… Of course we are talking about a very ethical group. Of terrorists.
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October 29, 2023 4:26pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

To top off another Ardern lie:

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/lifestyle/shopping/toyota-s-compact-electric-truck-concept-even-has-a-pass-through-bed/ar-AA1iOiRR?

See? See? I was right!
No you weren’t Ardern. You told a bare faced lie about Toyota NZ being in talks about Electric Utes.
Another Labour fail – and she ran……………………………………….
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October 29, 2023 4:45pm
Chuck Bird

I heard Paul Buchanan on ZB at about 3:39 p.m.

I said that regardless of how a civilian is killed by a baby beheaded or a baby killed because Hamas is using human shields it is the same. I am paraphrasing but he seemed to say body count is what counts.

I disagree. What do others think?
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October 29, 2023 5:16pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Well details matter for sure. I’m hearing ~1500 Israelis killed by Hamas, ~7000 Palestinians killed by IDF since Oct. 7th. I’m also hearing 40 Israeli babies beheaded by Hamas, which I find unlikely and ~70% of Palestinian casualties are women and children which I find likely.
  This isn’t a cricket match or a football game, those deaths have real effects far beyond whatever stories get told about the. Part of this war is going to be fought in the info-sphere of ideas and perceptions but that is only ever going to be secondary to physical reality. Our perceptions of the world don’t make the world.
  
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  October 29, 2023 5:37pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Ask yourself, what is the difference between:
  a) a pilot who drops a bomb on a military target (that is next to a hospital) and civilians die, and
  b) a young man who abuses, tortures, mutilates and then kills several civilians?
  
  In both instances, civilians die. But the motivation of the killings is different.
  
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  October 29, 2023 5:50pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    You don’t know their motivations, you are only presuming. Actual results count.
    
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    October 29, 2023 6:49pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      It takes a certain kind of motivation to mutilate a civilian before you kill them (or in the reverse order).
      
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      October 29, 2023 7:28pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        You don’t know who did what to whom and why, all we have is suppositions and I’m just not willing to draw a line down the middle of this war and say everyone on this side is good, right and motivated only by the best intentions and everyone on the other side is evil, wrong and only motivated by the worst intentions. That’s just not how humans work.
        Some people have mentioned Hiroshima and Dresden here, I’m not willing to draw a clean bright line there either. Some of those men would have preferred not to have been there, some would have been excited, some would have though it’s a nasty business, but it has to be done for the greater good. All interesting speculation, but then they burned those cities to the ground anyway.
        
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        October 29, 2023 10:08pm
- kowtow
  
  He’s a dick.
  
  There’s a huge difference . Intent for starters. Purpose another.
  
  The terrorists did it to start a war , defeat a peace initiative and to please their masters in Tehran . The intent is genocide.
  
  In the latter case it is Israel defending itself . Sadly civilian deaths in Gaza are “colateral” to a legal and lawful action.
  
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  October 29, 2023 6:05pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    “start a war”? that war has been going on for at least 50 years but more like 75.
    
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    October 29, 2023 6:48pm
- rouppe
  
  How quickly we forget.
  
  London. Dresden. Hiroshima.
  
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  October 29, 2023 6:42pm
- Paul G. Buchanan
  
  Just to be clear. What I said (and have written) is that when it comes to war crimes and crimes against humanity, the method of injury (gun, bomb, missile, knife) is not what matters. What matters is 1) who is deliberately targeted, and 2) the scale of the atrocity. And even then, the bottom line is defined by the former, since war crimes and crimes against humanity can occur on relatively small scale.
  
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  November 15, 2023 9:51am
kevn

(reply, as usual) Maggie… plus that lal bod hangs around hipkins all the time.
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October 29, 2023 5:56pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And to think that when Chippie was Education Minister, he employed Lal as part of his ‘Youth-Advisory-Group’ for about 3 years!
  
  No wonder our entire school system is in the dire mess it is today 🙁
  
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  October 29, 2023 6:23pm
  - Sarkozygroupie
    
    Perhaps that is how the trans activist organisation Inside Out has been able to insert itself so deeply into our schools and start brainwashing 5 year olds into believing the trans gender mindfuck.
    
    Was it Hipkins who allowed Shaneel Lal to push Inside Out into schools and the curriculum, like a drug pusher? I bet it was.
    
    https://insideout.org.nz/
    
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    October 30, 2023 12:02am
Flossie

Got any ducks to feed tonight Maggy?
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October 29, 2023 6:14pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  11 new day-olds arrived this morning with their mum.
  
  (As well as the 8 who just started flying a couple of days ago).
  
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  October 29, 2023 8:10pm
  - Flossie
    
    Cute!! We see them around here too, but being a retirement village the neighbours don’t appreciate the calling cards they leave on the pathways so feeding is frowned upon.
    
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    October 29, 2023 8:44pm
Notsofast

This is an important story where Jody O’Callaghan (30 something victim of left indoctrination) and her employers Stuff actively tried to have this person removed from her employment. More tomorrow if I get round to it

https://twitter.com/MomoStJohn/status/1718106881716359663?t=X6ccILMhVy9dtpl5u2q1Dg&s=19
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October 29, 2023 7:19pm
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  A hard left manager married to one of the outgoing Ministers recently tried to remove me from my position. I threatened legal action and stopped the attempted cancelling in its tracks. A colleague wasn’t so lucky. That is the second Labour-aligned manager who has attempted that in the past three years and that one, through collusion, ousted me.
  
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  October 30, 2023 12:12am

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