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February 15, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 February 2024

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Yvette

Labour’s 1975 Treaty of Waitangi Act – and “Principles” which followed it

The Treaty stood for 135 years until 1975 when the then-Labour Government passed the Treaty of Waitangi Act.
The Treaty of Waitangi Act stated the Treaty had principles, and it was the job of the Waitangi Tribunal to interpret them. Since then, the Tribunal, the courts, and the public service have gradually built up the principles, but New Zealanders as a whole have never been democratically consulted on these Treaty principles.
https://www.treaty.nz/?utm_campaign=information_campaign_launched&utm_medium=email&utm_source=actnz

1 – Can anyone name just one precise principle that is stated – the exact words – in the Treaty?

2 – If you find such a principle, is it not a universal-civilised concept, common to most ethnicities or social groups of evolved homo sapiens – like from the insights of Marcus Aurelius, Aristotle, SunTzu China through to the Sioux Nation “Seven Council Fires” of the the Great Plains of North America, for a few culturally-appropriated examples?

3 – And, with respect, are the principles of te Ao Maori not rather ordinary when offered in English? A “new” perspective or through different “glasses” –

Mahuta’s ‘radically different’ te ao Māori foreign policy approach with China makes prestigious international journal
Mahuta’s use of a kaupapa Māori foreign policy based on four tikanga Māori: manaakitanga (hospitality), whanaungatanga (connectedness), mahi tahi and kotahitanga (unity through collaboration), and kaitiakitanga (guardianship and the protection of intergenerational wellbeing).

But the reality is Putin and those deciding policy in Israel / Gaza
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February 15, 2024 8:01am
- I remember when
  
  They didn’t need a ‘foreign policy’ for their first four hundred years in New Zealand.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:39am
- Matt Long
  
  One of the fascinating things about Russia is that after Putin’s rambling historical justification of Russian Imperialism, about 70% of respondents to NZ X poll found Putin trustworthy. 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
  Here’s Nixon predicting Putin if democracy failed in Russia in 1994.
  https://x.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1757576274757755350?s=20
  
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  February 15, 2024 11:01am
  - Jake Dee
    
    Well Putin has his justifications, everyone does but when has he lied to New Zealanders?
    It’s very rare for anyone to listen to a long form unedited interview with Putin. Everything we get from Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping or Kim Jong Un is edited and filtered by the MSM.
    We all know what the level of trustworthiness the general public give the MSM.
    Low and dropping lower.
    
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    February 15, 2024 11:21pm
- Dave
  
  ‘[R]ather ordinary’?
  
  I think not. This is ‘be kind’ in Maori form, long part of Aotearoa’s tikanga before our recent Dear Leader discovered this philosophy. KB readers familiar with history will recall how these principles guided tribal policies between 1815 and 1835, and note how Neville’s inconsistent implementation of the four tikangas in the late 1930s caused so much unpleasantness with Adolf.
  
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  February 15, 2024 12:01pm
krazykiwi

Airport ‘security’ screening. This morning I was buzzed after removing everything from pockets, wearing jeans, t-shirt and sneakers. No phone, watch, jewelry. Nada. I declined the full body scanner and was then subjected to a ‘full pat down’ including removing sneakers so they could be inspected together with the soles of my feet. Welcome to your morning dehumanization theatre.

Does anyone really think this keeps people ‘safe’?

And if so, why don’t we need to be ‘kept safe’ when boarding an ATR Turboprop?
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February 15, 2024 8:02am
- Scott
  
  Because of our non-discrimination ideology we treat all passengers the same and search for dangerous items and bombs. In Israel they don’t so much search for the bomb as for the bomber. They profile the bomber.
  
  To me the Israeli approach makes a lot of sense. In NZ we have the ludicrous situation where a 75 year old grandmother called Betty Smith gets the same attention from airport security as 25 year old Muhammad Muhammad who has just spent 6 months in Yemen doing we know not what?
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:14am
  - kowtow
    
    Too right .
    
    ‘On the morning of 17 April 1986, at Heathrow Airport in London, Israeli security guards working for El Al airlines found 1.5 kilograms (3.3 lb) of Semtex explosive in the bag of Anne-Marie Murphy, a five-month pregnant Irishwoman attempting to board a flight to Tel Aviv with 375 other passengers.’
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindawi_affair#:~:text=On%20the%20morning%20of%2017,Aviv%20with%20375%20other%20passengers.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:22am
  - David Garrett
    
    Scott: what you are advocating is “profiling” my boy, and we can’t have that. After all, there is a million to one chance that “Betty Smith” is an Islamist terrorist in disguise a la Mrs Brown.
    
    I travel regularly between NZ and Tonga…Since I am not a fashion statement, I almost always wear the same pair of shoes, the sides of which extend – perhaps – 10mm above my ankle. Sometimes I am required to remove said shoes, more often, I’m not.
    
    A couple of times I have asked the screeners what I could possibly hide in my shoes, only to be rudely told to “Go away”…or “Fuck off now” – which of course contains an implied threat – if I encounter one particular guy who is consumed with his own self importance.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:22am
    - rouppe
      
      Recently went on a trip to Europe.
      
      I specifically bought a non-metal belt so I don’t have to take it off, and medium heavy shoes that do not extend above the ankle. I was asked to pull up my trousers a couple of times to show the shoes were not boots but got away with it.
      
      I did lose my rag a couple of years ago flying wlg-queenstown when I was told to remove my belt while wearing jandals, shorts and a t-shirt.
      “What is it you think I’m hiding?”
      “Just doing my job sir”. Following rules, not thinking
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:11am
- Paulus
  
  Yes, remember a few years ago when an African Refugee woman tried to Hijack a small AirNZ aircraft.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:21am
- ecco
  
  Yes it’s sad what has happened to airline travel since the Sept 11 event.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:27am
  - David Garrett
    
    ecco: I was very fortunate once, on an early morning flight down from Tonga 20 years ago, to be allowed to sit in the cockpit while the plane landed in Auckland. I found it fascinating, particular the to and fro I could hear in my headset between the tower and the plane.
    
    After we had taxiied to the gate, I said to the pilot, who was an older guy, “I suppose it becomes like driving a truck after a while?” His reply was priceless: “Not if you want to keep them in one piece mate, No”
    
    Sadly that is one life experience which no-one else will ever have.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:26am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      “Sadly that is one life experience which no-one else will ever have” – ‘these days’ fixes it DG.
      If you happened to know one of the guys in the front row of an early NZ 737 you might get lucky enough for an invite to join them on the tiny little seat just behind them – Southern Alps look incredible from around 20,000′ on CHCH approach. Not so much however watching said guys both suddenly very actively hunting the sky for the turboprop that was apparently climbing out of said destination on the opposite bearing heading north!
      Obviously time to return to allocated seat …. 🙂
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:37am
    - gravedodger
      
      Good morning David, number one daughter at boarding school in Chch c1978 had a friend from Invercargill convinced flights home were faster as they were downhill, LoL
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:53am
- bartybart
  
  unions maybe? more checks, more staff, more queues
  at Wellington there are 1 or 2 who stand there and point at which bin you should take out. that must be a fulfilling long term career
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:31am
- MCōs
  
  I set the alarm off in security at the airport every time for the last 20+yrs because I potentially have
  a bomb in my leg I tell them is a prosthetic hip joint
  Works every time.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:45am
  - imalwaysright
    
    I’ve got a pistol in my pocket, I tell them its a prosthetic penis.
    
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    February 15, 2024 8:54am
    - alloytoo
      
      Wouldn’t want to go off half cocked.
      
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      February 15, 2024 9:08am
  - Oskar
    
    I have a metal rod in my leg. Wellington and Auckland airports no problem. But I set off the alarms at Dunedin airport.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:15am
    - Taieri
      
      I get patted down and have carry on manually checked every time I fly out of Dunedin. Never happens at any other NZ airport. Must be something in the air.
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:39am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Worried about student pranks?
        
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        February 15, 2024 7:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Even a small plate in my neck sets things off. Cervical spine dissection and fusion (hernaiated disc)
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:58am
- peterwn
  
  Were you wearing a belt with a metal buckle? They are enough to set off sensitive metal detectors.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:02am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    Last year when I travelled overseas the only scanning alarms that went off were in NZ: Oz, Singapore, Malaysia no problem straight thru.
    
    Same clothes. Clearly oversensitive settings/equipment/staff.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:19am
- Chris R
  
  Krazy: If you had Mongrel Mob Forever (or similar) as a facial tattoo you’d have been waved through and received a “Have A Happy Day” greeting.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:21am
- NothingLeft
  
  Airport security screening is bullshit because anyone can hide a metal-free bomb big enough to down a plane up their arse, in their stomach or up their vagina, made in a few days from materials you can easily buy at shops in NZ. In the context of that there is no point to the theatre.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:27am
  - MCōs
    
    How come it never happens then?
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:53am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Because the real threat of plane bombs is almost zero, and what miniscule threat does exist comes 99% from mostly young male religious nutters of a special religion. Generally young underachievers/losers with patchy employment records and low intelligence. Be pragmatic, and profile and screen them and you can safely ignore everyone else.
      
      It would Save the world’s airlines $10’s of billions of dollars and 100’s of millions of wasted traveller hours in the process.
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:47am
  - G152
    
    A stick of Gelignite isnt going to affect their metal detector
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:55am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      They also have dogs and scent scanners that detect explosives. This is another reason people have been pulled aside on international flights – trace chemicals, as I have seen them do closer checks of peoples hands. Swabs for instance. My wife was pulled aside for that once, and odd that it wasn’t me as I am more likely to have cordite or black powder or residue from old shells on clothing or hands.
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:51am
      - Countrygirl
        
        Perhaps she’d been handling your weapon 😊
        
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        February 15, 2024 11:44am
  - Phronesis
    
    Yep, it’s largely theatre. Have to be seen to be doing something to keep people “safe”. Aircrew have a pretty good idea what the real threats are which is why it’s so irritating to be forced to participate in the theatrical security measures.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:28am
- Yvette
  
  My 2005 Newark–Los Angeles booking pass had three stars printed after other details and I wondered what they were for until it was explained to me by Security Staff that the computer had selected me for a random search, which they on the spot – well, two yellow footprints spaced about 20″ apart – proceeded to do. It was interesting.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:36am
- PurplePen
  
  I say it’s time it was reviewed and determined that it’s no longer necessary. Big fat waste of money and resources and it’s merely AveSec propping up their business for themselves.
  
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  February 15, 2024 7:02pm
Lee C

I hang awake in my cell at night dreaming of being ‘patted down’ KK…
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February 15, 2024 8:05am
- krazykiwi
  
  The AvSec gorilla didn’t do it for me, Lee.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:32am
Maggie Pie

Well butter my butt and call me a date scone.
Who said ‘the left’ haven’t got a sense of humor?

https://twitter.com/nzlabour/status/1757543136245764293

(at least the replies are funny 😀 )
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February 15, 2024 8:08am
- Biscuit
  
  Maggie, I love it that the Leftists can come up with this sort of thing.
  
  They completely overlook the fact, of course, that if ‘their’ mob were now the Government there’d have to have been a menage-a-quatre with Chippie, Marama/Jimmy, Debbie/Rawiri and Winston.
  
  Actually that’d be a menage-a-six…
  
  Enough to make one vomit, eh?
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:21am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    That the Greens can have 2 female co leaders but not 2 male co leaders says all you need to know about their twisted mentality. They are too thick to see that this breaches the fundemental principle of equality. Whilst they preach principles they go and break them. Now there is a word for that and its on the tip on my tongue.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:06am
    - Jake Dee
      
      The Male/Female co-leaders policy the Greens used to have at least made a bit of sense. It was interesting to see the progressive ratchet blow that one out of the water. Left wing organizations are female dominated and only getting more so over time. But for progressives a male dominated organization is unequitable and needs to be changed but a female dominated organization is not.
      Why this is the case is never explained.
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:38pm
- Nukuleka
  
  The difference between the left and the right is that the right have a sense of humour and can laugh at themselves- they would see the joke and laugh along with it. Were the boot on the other foot, however, the left would be screaming ‘transphobia’, the msm would be calling out ‘racism’ and the lesbian left would be calling for the chemical castration of all cis men.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:52am
- Tony Stuart
  
  National’s got one doing the rounds that says:
  
  Roses are red
  Violets are blue
  Unlike Labour
  We deliver for you!
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:10am
Matt Long

I presume the targeted group were all Zionists, because the protests have nothing to do with ugly Jew hating.
“The federal government will move to criminalise “doxxing” after the details of a WhatsApp group involving hundreds of Jewish Australians were published online”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-13/federal-government-to-criminalise-doxxing/103458052
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February 15, 2024 8:09am
- Matt Long
  
  We’ve established the protesters don’t care about actual genocides against Syrians, Kurds, Armenians, Africans, Asians, in fact pretty much any ethnic group, except Palestinians, Yep Palestinians are special and we’re out there protesting because we love Palestinians.
  What, What’s that, we don’t give didly about Palestinians either? We’re out there protesting because we’re ugly Jew haters, glad that’s cleared up.
  https://x.com/CptAllenHistory/status/1757175471060529375?s=20
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:15am
  - I remember when
    
    It is one of the mysteries of life – why do so many people seem to instictively dislike/hate the Jews?
    How many have actually met one?
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:01am
    - Che Guava
      
      Do you need to personally know someone to evaluate and criticise their actions, if those actions are well documented and corroborated? For instance, there’s plenty of anti-Palestinian hate on KB, but I bet 99.9% have never met one. Same with the anti-Putin or even anti-Hitler rhetoric: why the “instinctive dislike/hate” of these two when 0% of you have ever met either of them? I guess it’s because people make judgments about things they have no direct experience of personally all the time.
      
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      February 15, 2024 12:25pm
    - Paulus
      
      At a large Boys School in London near Hampstead, some maximum 15% pupils were of the Jewish faith.
      Great Pals all through and afterwards long term.
      15% because the school was Anglican for 400 years.
      
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      February 15, 2024 2:06pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Interesting anecdote, Paulus, and demonstrates a scale invariant principle regarding society as a whole: Christian for centuries, until Jews attained an over-representation of about 4000%, based on Jews being 4.35 out of 1,000 people in the UK.
        
        https://www.jpr.org.uk/countries/how-many-jews-in-united-kingdom
        
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        February 15, 2024 2:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Now that Russia collusion is a proven lie, when do the trials for Treason begin?
I want to see Trump satisfied that Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton get taken down for good. They are not the only ones of course.
Drain the swamp.

https://www.redvoicemedia.com/2024/02/deep-state-exposed-obamas-cia-implicated-in-secret-binder-election-interference-videos/?
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February 15, 2024 8:12am
- RoboRob
  
  This is the major problem for the US. Because TDS has driven the left to throw the book at Trump we can now expect the same to happen to every ex president. When Trump got in last time he didn’t ‘lock her up’. He followed advice that the appearance of political persecution is a terrible look. Now the TDS crew have broken that un written compact.
  
  For example, I fully expect the Hur report, which decided Biden did willfully break the law, will be prosecuted by the next DOJ if Trump gets in.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Trump will have to drain the DOJ swamp first, or get nowhere.
    The corruption runs deep.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:59am
  - MCōs
    
    Apart from that its not possible for a US president to lock anyone up, unlike numerous other countries
    It is, on the other hand, possible for the US president to pardon people as Gerald Ford did with Richard Nixon and undoubtedly Nikki Halley would pardon Trump if she became president
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:07am
    - RoboRob
      
      It is 100% possible for the US president to lock people up. There are in charge of the DOJ and can direct them who to investigate and who not to. For proof see the agreement on the left that Trump will instruct to DOJ to cease investigations into him if he gets back into power.
      
      Ever heard the phrase a grand jury indict a ham sandwhich….
      
      Solomon “Sol” Wachtler (born April 29, 1930) is an American lawyer and Republican politician.[1] He was Chief Judge of the New York Court of Appeals from 1985 to 1992.[2] Wachtler’s most famous quote, made shortly after his appointment as Chief Judge, was that district attorneys could get grand juries to “indict a ham sandwich”.[3]
      
      If you look hard enough you will find something to charge people for.
      
      Ford Pardon Nixon for exactly the reason I am trying to make.
      Historically presidents don’t go after their predecessors, it avoids the perception of a banana republic.
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:13am
      - Swifty
        
        Just like Pakistan.
        
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        February 15, 2024 1:40pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nikki Haley President?
      Hahahahaha!!!
      
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      February 16, 2024 8:37am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Yep Steve. Five Eyes involved meaning GCSB NZ used to spy. So why did John Key and St Cindy resign again?
  
  https://youtu.be/TXLdJ5_F48A?si=6s8cPsutFUmqHo5y
  
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  February 15, 2024 3:02pm
  - Vory v zakone
    
    5 👀👀👀👀👀
    
    https://thepoliticsbrief.com/bombshell-new-report-connects-all-the-dots-that-russia-hoax-was-cia-op-to-frame-donald-trump/?fbclid=IwAR2SemaGn5fpiDJjnR73tlKW5zIP7-NqSj6PEmRlFszvBIYK4jUHie7QhOE
    
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    February 15, 2024 3:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Democrats do not want the American people to have the option to vote for Trump. They are very desperate. Watch your back Trump, you are in the crosshairs.

https://pantsonfirenews.com/the-washington-post-is-spitting-mad-this-one-stunt-against-trump-did-not-work/?
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February 15, 2024 8:18am
- Grunter
  
  I think there is a reasonable chance that the USA will get into such a mess that the election doesn’t even happen.
  
  The Dems are now allowing Biden to be shown as too senile to run, so they must have someone else at the ready. But who have they got? All possibilities have major flaws (Harris, Mich Obama, crooked Hilary, Newsome, ….. anyone else?)
  
  So if Trump is indeed then taken out somehow (the Dems last resort) – then total chaos will kick in. That could get real nasty.
  
  Al if the election does go ahead, will either side accept the result?
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The bit that gets me is Trump is not immune from prosecution over Jan 6th 2021 when he was POTUS, but Biden is immune from prosecution now as POTUS.
  Double standard.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:02am
  - fernglas
    
    Biden is not immune from prosecution
    Immunity is a legal status which means that individuals such as diplomats cannot be prosecuted. Biden was found to have such significant mental issues that it would not be possible to prove the state of mind needed for a successful prosecution. I laugh at Trump saying that it is unfair that he is being prosecuted when Biden is not, as it suggests that Trump feels that he too should be regarded as mentally incompetent
    
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    February 15, 2024 1:14pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Failing to see that connection??
      Prosecuted and mentally incompetent?
      One of these things is not like the other…….
      
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      February 15, 2024 2:02pm
  - Paulus
    
    No, Democrat Laws, Money, and Political Rules are different in the USA !
    
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    February 15, 2024 2:09pm
Maggie Pie

Talk about having a good sook!
There are no Maoris alive today who can’t speak English….

https://twitter.com/katie_pai/status/1757619007681933603
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February 15, 2024 8:19am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, that is a true echo chamber as comments are ‘restricted’ to fans. The change back to English was well documented in the first 100 days.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:33am
- lastmanstanding
  
  On the subject of AI and that it will eliminate jobs I think back to the early 1970s when I entered the work force as a young Accountant. We were told these new computers would do all the work and we could spend most of our time on the beach relaxing by the year 2000.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:16am
  - David Garrett
    
    lastman: Did you ever read “Future Shock” by Alvin Toffler published in 1970? I re-read it a few years ago, and was most amused at the predictions made which never came to pass, and the major developments – such as mobile phones – which they completely missed. It did sort of predict the net, or at least the much bigger role in our lives computers would play
    
    It also confidently predicted that by 2000, the inhabitants of western civilizations’ major problem would be how to spend all that leisure time without going mad with boredom.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:32am
    - alloytoo
      
      The internet was predicted (in a fashion) as early as the 1950’s with Asimov’s Multivac which allowed citizens to access information via terminals.
      
      Sci-fi writers I think have a better predictive record than futurists, though perhaps their ideas ultimately end up creating themselves.
      
      Arthur C Clarke postulated the communications satellite, an idea realized in his own lifetime.
      
      Roddenberry’s Star Trek showed of “Communicators”, Tricorders and Tablets (TNG) long before Apple tried to patent it all, but many of the contributors to the technologies were self confessed Star Trek fans.
      
      William Gibson’s Neuromancer (1984) a cyberpunk novel predicated on the value of online information.
      
      Even as Orwell’s “1984” solidifies itself in our reality, Huxley’s “Brave New World” seems very very close
      
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      February 15, 2024 9:57am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        No flying cars yet
        
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        February 15, 2024 7:39pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        Plenty more examples of that phenomenon.
        One of my favorites is that the Taser was inspired by the 1911 junior sci-fi adventure story “Tom Swift and his Electric Rifle”.
        TASER = Tom A. Swift Electric Rifle.
        
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        February 16, 2024 12:13am
    - Inandout
      
      DG, mention of Toffler reminds me of once being told that in one of his books Alvin mentioned ready meals being in throw away electric frypans. Surely this would be the pinnacle of wastefulness and would be roundly condemned today?
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:01am
    - Countrygirl
      
      When I was at teachers training college in the mid 1960s we were told we should prepare our students for having a lot more leisure time, including 3 or 4 day weeks.
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:56am
      - Taieri
        
        Some of them have 0 day weeks now…
        
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        February 15, 2024 4:44pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Well he got the “going mad” bit right. But yes, he failed to see that new tech also opens up new territories to fill up.
      Alfred Nobel, predicted or at least hoped that his powerful new explosives would eliminate war.
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:55pm
  - cmm
    
    My son (32 year old software developer) and myself (62 year old software developer) were talking about some of this yesterday….
    
    When I started programming in the early 1980s, most programmers were basically the more intelligent clerical staff who were then put through a two or three month COBOL course.
    
    Anyone coming out of university with a degree was well ahead of the pack. You wouldn’t start on the bottom rung of the ladder but a few rungs off the bottom.
    
    Fast forward 40 years and complexity has increased massively. New graduates have a hard time finding jobs because few people want inexperienced staff. The first few rungs on the ladder are missing. The first two or three years are rough.
    
    But once they find a job and have worked a few years and cut their teeth they become hugely more valuable.
    
    Now a days a lot of that entry level work is being done with AI. AI engines can do a reasonable job of generating a lot of simpler code that would have compromised an entry level job. Bye bye to a few more of the lower rungs on the ladder.
    
    Of course the AI programs still have bugs, but as the AI improves, those bugs get more subtle and harder to find, requiring more skilled staff.
    
    So we end up with the situation where there is no need for lower and intermediate staff, but there is a high need for highly experienced staff. Where do they come from if there is no ladder to climb?
    
    In 5 years time, less people will be wanting to hire new grads and even more will be wanting to hire those with 10 years experience. That hole is going to get bigger and bigger.
    
    It is not just programming. AI is used to do a lot of the stuff that entry level lawyers etc were doing too.
    
    AI does the grunt work and a senior lawyer checks it. Where’s the job opening for the junior lawyer? How do they get experience?
    
    Perhaps in 20 years or so the system will collapse under its own weight as people realise the full magnitude of the problem.
    
    We’ve seen people move away from highly automated bakeries etc and the formation of artisanal bakeries (and cloths making etc) where hand made goods are considered better and is worth paying for. Perhaps we will see the eventual rise of “artisanal software” or “artisanal legal advice” etc.
    
    It really is too early to say where this whole mess is going.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:21am
    - Phronesis
      
      I see your point but I think the simple answer is that universities will have to produce graduates that actually have the necessary skills to be employable. Perhaps this will require a longer course or perhaps it will just require better and more focused teaching.
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:36am
      - alloytoo
        
        It will actually require lecturers who know what the industry needs.
        
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        February 15, 2024 11:58am
      - Paulus
        
        Do you mean that Universities will turn out people who can read, write and do simple arithmetic ?
        
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        February 15, 2024 2:12pm
    - Local Miller
      
      Maybe it will all end where Azimov predicted in “The Feeling of Power”.
      Read it online here: https://urbigenous.net/library/power.html
      It’s only a short story but one of my favorite.
      
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      February 15, 2024 1:48pm
  - Skippytony
    
    To be fair, I started working in a suburban bank branch in 1974. There was a Manager (who had a secretary) an Accountant who ran the joint day to day, a Senior General Hand who did all the complex stuff, a trading bank examiner, a Savings Bank examiner, a Ledgerkeeper, five full time tellers, an enquiries clerk and two shit kicker juniors (me and another idiot) whose jobs involved folding bank statements and sticking stamps on envelopes, counting money boxes and so on. We would manually calculate 3 3/4% interest on savings accounts. Hand post in the General Ledger.
    
    Now the same branch has about four part time tellers.
    
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    February 15, 2024 11:49am
    - lifesgood
      
      If they even have a bank at all.
      
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      February 15, 2024 4:42pm
  - miltonF
    
    It’s different this time. Computers were designed to replace pen & paper, mechanical calculators, snail mail etc. They didn’t eliminate the need for human labour but drastically reduced it.
    
    AI on the other hand is designed to replace the human labour directly…
    
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    February 15, 2024 5:40pm
- NothingLeft
  
  There are a few raised by extremists – a friend in Whangerei said he ran into one trying to work as a laborer with a couple of friends who were bilingual. Really just child abuse.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:27am
Simon

The perils of investing in NZ listed shares. ( Apart from all the usual) The workforce, a lot of garbage is out there. Just look at the workforce that major listed companies have to employ to get projects completed. No thanks.

ESG shit. Unquantifiable crap heaped upon management. Look at the growth in annual reports from just 5 yrs ago. ESG hurts companies badly. What should be simple operations are spending millions on ESG shit.

Lastly is if the board has taken on any Iwi directors. Avoid like the plague any company that suddenly has a new director with sole qualification is their high hierarchical place in an Iwi.

There are others. Such as a company having to rely upon the graces of local and central govt. Fuck that.
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February 15, 2024 8:20am
- pdm
  
  Remember this Simon.
  
  The NZ market makes up roughly 0.5% of World Markets (well it did when I was in that industry) and Australasia makes up roughly 10%.
  
  International funds therefore give you access to about 90% of World Markets where there are many companies larger than the New Zealand economy.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:20am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I think you have your percentages wrong.
    
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    February 15, 2024 7:40pm
- kevn
  
  Simon… All the Aucklanders who have no choice. A Mr WaterWater sits proudly on the executive team.
  https://www.watercare.co.nz/About-us/Who-we-are/Executives
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:20am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    So relevant they named him twice
    
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    February 15, 2024 7:41pm
- Grunter
  
  I’d go as far to say NZ is ‘uninvestable’ at the moment for the reasons you give above.
  
  The same goes for the UK and the EU who are all drowning in ESG and Global Boiling programs. It is just impossible to understand how good/bad a company is anymore and what their central govt has planned for them.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:34am
  - RoboRob
    
    So true.
    
    Try finding a Kiwi Saver or other investment fund that doesn’t claim to be an ethical investor. I want someone who will invest in things that will give me the best return. If that happens to be Arms and weapons (with fucking wars going on at the moment) or oil and gas, so be it.
    
    It seems like the people who want ‘ethical’ investing are well catered for but those that don’t a shit out of luck.
    
    Every ones ethics are different. Chloe Swarbrick might like to invest in the ‘ethical’ pie funds scheme. Then she finds out that they don’t invest in ‘Companies cultivating, manufacturing or supplying cannabis plants or products for recreational use as their main business.’
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:36am
    - Grunter
      
      RoboRob – Carig’s have a DYI KiwiSaver scheme where you can pick where your funds go. Limited to certain stocks/funds/ETF’s, but gives you some choice. It’s worth checking out.
      
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      February 15, 2024 12:03pm
    - Paulus
      
      I am tired of the media pushing one of these so called Ethical Kiwisaver Managers – no wonder it is called Simplicity – simple and low return is probably about right.
      Kiwisaver Managers should earn the maximum return for investors they can, without reverting to Green Shield Stamps.
      Likewise certain large Banks on their Term Deposits – I am not a Greenie in what I expect from my funds, and am considering relooking at them currently.
      
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      February 15, 2024 2:18pm
      - Mr Nobody NZ
        
        I was approached by company to switch to their kiwisaver plan which they were promoting as being made up only of “ethical” investments.
        
        When I said that I’m sure it would appeal to some of their customers howevernI was looking for a plan which would provide the maximum benefits and would invest in proven areas of strong returns especially in the current climate such as defense, mineral, gas, and oil extraction I was told that they didn’t have any plans that would invest in those sort of things.
        
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        February 15, 2024 8:13pm
- alloytoo
  
  ESG is (IMHO) frankly illegal as it seeks to undermine the fiduciary obligations of company directors towards shareholders enshrined in law.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:59am
  - RoboRob
    
    I don’t think its IMHO. I think its 100% true.
    
    The law states that directors must operate companies in the way that will give the best $ return to owners (share holders). It doesn’t say that they need to do what’s best for stakeholders (works, lobby groups etc).
    
    IMHO the only thing that has stopped CEOs from being sued is the potential defense of ‘I believed that ESG would generate better returns for the company and thus better returns for shareholders’.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:41am
  - RoboRob
    
    Lol. Just went to look up the law around directors and it appear that just prior to removal Labour changed the law!
    
    ‘The Companies Act’s section on director duties has been amended. Under the new law, acting in the best interest of the company may not be just about maximising profit but also taking other factors into consideration (for example, environmental, social, and governance matters)’
    
    Companies Act 1993, Section 131 (as at 4 August 2023)
    
    https://companies-register.companiesoffice.govt.nz/help-centre/company-directors/what-it-means-to-be-a-director/
    
    So those left wankers weren’t just happy with fucking up the public service they modified company law to screw over shareholders too.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:44am
    - Grunter
      
      Yep, AND….
      
      the banks are driving ESG big time. If you don’t have a published ESG report/program then they will defund your business.
      
      They (banks) are now moving their focus to farmers and the methane scam. But farmers will be left with no choice but to comply.
      
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      February 15, 2024 12:07pm
      - Simon
        
        All good points above. Missing though is the work force. This isnt given enough consideration in investing. The work force today just isnt the best. If you know you know.
        
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        February 15, 2024 3:50pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Thanks for that. It’s a good real-world example of how an ideology that was just in the sociology department 30 years ago has slipped sideways into law without public discussion.
      
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      February 16, 2024 12:25am
Matt Long

Got me own river, going for a cruise, don’t have to look, at none of Youse.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/whanganui-chronicle/news/river-users-onboard-as-iwi-close-parts-of-whanganui-river/NXQELGOJ3JGFZDM54YUNP2DARY/
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February 15, 2024 8:24am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Did they ask the river itself? Being a person and all. I’d be interested in what it had to say.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:43am
  - pdm
    
    Good thinking Bollocks.
    
    There are going to be a lot of people peeing in the river over that excursion time.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:21am
    - Inandout
      
      pdm, and probably the odd floating ankle bracelet.
      
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      February 15, 2024 10:03am
- Cassandra
  
  They own the river in effect. I suppose it’s the same as a restaurant owner closing his business for a family function. Yeti Tours said it’s okay but then as Mandy Rice-Davies said……………………….
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:45am
  - Taieri
    
    They own the river in effect.
    ———-
    
    Te Awa Tupua (Whanganui River Claims Settlement) Bill conferred a “legal person” status on Whanganui River. Can you “own” a person? If so, what is such an ownership called?
    A slavery, perhaps?
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:46am
- pdm
  
  Matt – all taking annual leave from their employers I presume.
  
  Or leave without pay?
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:54am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wonder if they are doing something that they don’t want Ngati Pakeha to see?
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:09am
- Countrygirl
  
  I was surprised that the waka were modern fibre glass canoes. Otherwise I skimmed the article because too much was in a language that I don’t speak.
  
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  February 15, 2024 12:04pm
- Ghost
  
  Not much different from waterways closed during boat races, rowing competitions.
  
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  February 15, 2024 12:25pm
ecco

With NZ companies reporting their financial results this week, and seeing what happened to Fletcher Building yesterday, we are going to see the effect of Ardern’s brutal covid lockdowns and Robertson’s inflationary money printing (in cahoots with Adrian Orr, whom also has blood on his hands on this matter), on the state of the nz economy.

The fact that Orr is keeping the screws on high interest rates in New Zealand much longer than everywhere else, this is going to infringe on every NZer, not just corporates, through higher prices.

You just need to frequent some retailers to see that they are on their knees, in no small part due to the previous Labour government’s inept incompetence when it came to the covid lockdowns. This will be Ardern’s legacy playing out.

Well meaning girl but totally ill equipped to run a country. We will see her legacy play out in nz company results this reporting season.
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February 15, 2024 8:27am
- kowtow
  
  She was no well meaning girl.
  She is a dangerous socialist ( a champagne one , but socialist nonetheless)
  
  Talking of Orr , where’s the outrage;
  
  “It’s a great business to be in, central banking, where you print money and people believe it.”
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:16am
- alloytoo
  
  Orrs problem is that he did far too little, far too late until it became bleedingly obvious that his mate Robbo wasn’t going to be their to cover this ass.
  
  Then he overreacted.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:02am
- nathie
  
  Last night Fletcher Building chief executive Ross Taylor mentioned to HDPA that the covid lockdowns was also as one of reasons that Fletcher Building’s financial position was negatively impacted.
  
  Cue the nightly TV news – no mention of Labour/Ardern’s covid lockdowns, that severely impacted Auckland, as being one of the reasons for Fletcher’s financial problems (and I would hazard a guess it was a major reason).
  
  Once the Team of $55m+ … forever always the team of $55m+. 🙁
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:42am
- SoloView
  
  @ ecco and nathie
  re Fletchers – Fletchers Building has been stumbling for a while:-
  From the NZ Herald Feb 2018
  ” We’ve seen the CEO leave. We’ve seen the head of construction Graham Darlow leave last year. And we’ve seen the chairman Ralph Norris say that they’re going to make no profit out of the $700 million New Zealand International Convention Centre and the Christchurch Justice and Emergency Precinct.”
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/explainer-whats-happening-at-fletcher-building/VJOM35MXVWY5NXGGAHVL6WKBCQ/
  
  From RNZ August 2017
  “Fletcher Building’s profit has slumped 80 percent because of losses and delays on two big projects, the Sky City Convention Centre and the Justice Precinct in Christchurch.”
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/201854999/fletcher-building-s-profit-collapses-on-big-project
  
  From RNZ June 2018
  “The country’s biggest construction company hit troubled financial waters last year after falling behind schedule on the city’s Justice Precinct, which was $146 million over budget.
  The Auckland Convention Centre was also subject to cost over-runs.
  Now the $80 million hotel being built for the Christchurch City Council-owned Christchurch Airport is six months overdue.”
  
  Whatever the financial conditions, it would seem a good idea to stay away from them
  
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  February 15, 2024 3:41pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Quite right
    The current management who have just departed got handed a Hospital pass.
    
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    February 15, 2024 4:02pm
- miltonF
  
  The interest rates remain high because we can’t get domestic inflation under control. Actually, interest rates are not as high as they need to be to constrain inflation. They are holding back on interest rate increases because they fear it will cause a housing market crash. Imagine how bad inflation would be right now if interest rates were lower?
  
  Actually, interest rates are the “ambulance at the bottom of the cliff”. We should be tackling the cause of the problems rather than the symptoms. To do that we have to stop increasing the monetary supply. Govt needs to stop borrowing billions for wasteful spending and the public need to stop borrowing excessive amounts of money for stupidly overpriced property.
  
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  February 15, 2024 5:48pm
  - ecco
    
    Wow Ardern and Robertson already munted nz inc with their profligate money printing in the name of the covid. Don’t see why the Nats should stop now. Tanking nz inc permanently will just cause an exodus of any productive people left in nz.
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:28pm
cas

I can’t believe I could ever concur with Marcus Lush but when he said last night that the journos who vote on the Halbergs are rugby nuts and Olympic nuts and he didn’t agree with them, I thought he was so right. Nobody on wheels ever seems to get a look in and golfers don’t come up too often if at all. The team of the year had to be the Warriors for turning their season around and there seemed to be no room for Andrew Webster, Warriors coach.
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February 15, 2024 8:28am
- pdm
  
  Hard to argue against Lisa Carrington cas.
  
  She is all class.
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:24am
  - MCōs
    
    She is, but it’s very much a minority sport
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:27am
    - Flossie
      
      Up until last night I had never heard of the sport of speed rock climbing (I think that’s what a young man got an award for).
      Now that is a minority sport!
      
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      February 15, 2024 12:42pm
- MCōs
  
  Andrew Webster being Australian might rule him out.
  If you look back over the years rowers have won the top award I think 10-11 times even though it’s a minority sport.
  For the Warriors to win they need to win the NRL
  The ABs have won when they are world champions
  Kane Williamson is the best test batter in the world by a mile, but he wasn’t even nominated
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:25am
Matt Long

Trucking company tried to force the jab on staff, get a bit of pushback.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hastings-truck-driver-who-refused-covid-jab-gets-29000-payout-for-wrongful-dismissal/3QG5LXXYI5HPFMJBWXH3HMX23E/
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February 15, 2024 8:29am
- Inandout
  
  Matt, had that driver been a doctor there would have been no need for compulsion.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:36am
  - miltonF
    
    That’s an impressive burn. Well done.
    
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    February 15, 2024 5:51pm
- Lee C
  
  But.., but….., I thought people who didn’t want to get it were
  
  ‘delusional’?
  
  Maybe the people who did want it were actually the ones being ‘deluded’?
  
  Many of them certainly have gone very quiet lately…
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:47am
NeverMindTheBollocks

No, Tory! Don’t muck around with the small beer of limiting pool hours & closing libraries while diverting attention from a 15% rates hike.

Bite the bullet & do the big ticket items. Stop with the cycle lanes and sack every last person in the traffic/ roads / whatever weasel word department that does these things. Sell the airport shares and pay down debt. Sell the Old Town Hall for whatever you can get for it.

And STOP SPENDING MONEY!
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February 15, 2024 8:33am
- Paulus
  
  If she stops spending money many Bars and Classy Restaurants will go out of business !
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Countdown/Woolworths.
First rats/mice, now pigeons.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/supermarket-rats-woolworths-grey-lynn-sees-pigeons-roosting-in-shelves/QUYZRA5LC5EEJALUJUXKAWOJSY/?
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February 15, 2024 8:40am
- kowtow
  
  There’s a definite campaign on against ‘Johnny Foreigner ‘ Woolies .
  
  P n S is a veritable avian menagerie , and yet barely a chirp from the perpetually outraged .
  
  Talking of outrage , barely a bleat over clownish Orr’s quip ;
  
  “It’s a great business to be in, central banking, where you print money and people believe it.”
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:48am
- imalwaysright
  
  Zoolworths
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:57am
- cmm
  
  Three flavours of rats then:
  Rats
  Small rats
  Rats with wings
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:23am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And what did I tell youse yesterday…..
  
  https://twitter.com/TeacherTim77777/status/1757216782870548659
  
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  February 15, 2024 9:27am
  - Inandout
    
    Maggie, perhaps if the rodents are gay then they won’t multiply.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:14am
Matt Long

If you’re intending to use rail for transport to Whangarei in the next few years, it’s recommended you start gym sessions now. Both cardio and strength training essential.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/weather-damage-continues-to-indefinitely-shut-northlands-rail-line/ATIV7G7DH5BVNDHN2HI32DJBCM/
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February 15, 2024 8:50am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Well, might as well join the fun.

https://twitter.com/NzFubar/status/1757578757509206101/photo/1
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February 15, 2024 9:02am
thirteenstars

Canada Justice Minister’s car stolen three times in as many years.

Opposition leader Poilievre savours the delicious irony, asks why thieves released early on bail are so ungrateful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Dyz_65vVc
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February 15, 2024 9:07am
Grunter

The EU is spiraling downwards economically as their Leftard “Green” policies start to kick in. Of course they are merely ‘exporting’ their emissions to China, India, etc.

One excerpt from the article….
“Europe drove itself into the ditch. Bad policy decisions, including net-zero delusions, the headlong rush to alt-energy, aggressive decarbonization mandates, and the strategic blunder of relying on Russian natural gas that’s no longer available, are driving the deindustrialization. How bad is it? Mario Loyola, a research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, wrote a sharp January 28 article in The Hill about Europe’s meltdown. According to European Commission data, industrial output in Europe “plummeted 5.8% in the 12 months ending November 2023,” he wrote. “Capital goods production was down nearly 8.7%. Investment in plants and equipment has plummeted.”

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/02/12/the-deindustrialization-of-europe-in-five-charts/
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February 15, 2024 9:21am
- thirteenstars
  
  “Of course they are merely ‘exporting’ their emissions to China, India, etc.”
  
  I wonder if the likes of Luxon and his Teals, and other fellow travelers, realise they are enriching the polluters while also paying the sin tax of carbon credits thereby impoverishing their own countries.
  
  Never has suicide been so thoroughly disguised as virtue.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:21am
- Jake Dee
  
  Overall, their point is correct but they’re spinning the Russia gas supply in the wrong direction. The gas is available, but they have chosen not to avail themselves of it.
  Except for the stuff that would have come through Nordstream. Anyone care to speculate on who blew that up and then disappeared without a trace?
  Qui bono?
  
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  February 16, 2024 12:35am
I remember when

Mahanga Beach north of Mahia.
Scientists at University of Auckland have found parts of the coast have more than 10 metres of erosion, and in the case of Mahanga Beach north of Mahia, 20 metres was carved away.
Would it build up again?
Ford said it was too soon to tell.
“It could take years to decades….”

Mahanga Reserves Mahia Peninsula
Reserves Management Plan 8 March 2011
Final Report Adopted By Council
Includes –
“Dune restoration is primarily about improving the health of the fore-dune and its resilience to erosion from swells, wave action and wind.
Two photographs included in Appendix 5 illustrate the amount of erosion that has occured over a 10-year period in the interval between the 2 photographs being taken.
A large amount of the foreshore apparent in 1999 is not present in 2009.”

And a letter in the Gisborne Herald complains about the extent to which Council inaction has contributed.
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February 15, 2024 9:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Media trying to have a dig at Trump. I think it is backfiring.
Send a Valentine Message to Melania, and oh, send a donation ti the Trump Election Campaign.
$20.24 is suggested, otherwise $47!
The man knows how to market himself.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/entertainment/other/donald-trump-uses-valentine-love-letter-to-melania-to-appeal-for-campaign-donations/ar-BB1ih0dB
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February 15, 2024 9:30am
Maggy Wassilieff

A quarter of our new Primary school teachers aren’t confident teaching maths (at primary school level).

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018926146/many-primary-school-maths-teachers-feel-unprepared-report

It’s hard to understand how these folks have got through 3 years of Teacher Training, yet are ill-equipped to teach foundation maths.

Our national achievement picture is concerning, and not all teachers feel prepared to engage students in this crucial area of their schooling. We know that maths is the pathway to success in many other learning areas as well as having longer-term benefits, which means early maths has big impacts for learning and life outcomes.

https://evidence.ero.govt.nz/documents/making-it-count-teaching-maths-in-years-1-to-3
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February 15, 2024 9:35am
- cmm
  
  Maggy, I don’t know what the current situation is, but a few years ago around 50% of the new crop of teachers completed the PT track.
  
  Can’t teach maths or English but they can blow a whistle!
  
  Of course that was completely at odds with the market for new teachers.
  
  I suspect a few packed away their track suits, picked up some chalk and tried to mumble their way through addition.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:26am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I think I could write/teach quite a few maths (and Physics) modules (at all school levels) based on sports.
    
    A P.E. teacher should have a pretty good handle around things like number/shape/time/distance.
    
    I think it/s the socio-psycho bla bla teachers that struggle with maths teaching.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:42am
    - Countrygirl
      
      I hear speaking te reo is the most important skill. Fortunately there are numbers up to about 10 which is useful for a decimal based country.
      
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      February 15, 2024 12:17pm
    - Swifty
      
      “socio-psycho bla bla…”
      
      What do think is going on Maggy?
      
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      February 15, 2024 1:59pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I think a lot of primary teachers have managed to get a qualification without ever having progressed much beyond year 11 maths and possibly believe that as maths is pretty unimportant in their life, it’s not really essential for all students.
        
        I think the fact that our Teacher Training Courses place such little emphasis on a teacher’s maths ability just reinforces this.
        
        I must admit to having the most appalling instruction/guidance in maths teaching during my
        Secondary School teacher training year, that I opted not to teach maths.
        
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        February 15, 2024 4:22pm
- Paulus
  
  Surely many of our newly called teachers at kura (ex primary) schools do not have the capability to teach maths, or probably most anything, at any reasonable level, as their own educations were not possibly, or really, up to standard
  At the interviews, but the could recite te reo Maori, as they are expected to. at the time.
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:29pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  C’mon Maggy, when they got a bit scared of learning Maths, they buggered off to their “safe space”.
  
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  February 15, 2024 4:13pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  No surprise. Females dominate primary teaching. Females dislike maths.
  
  Generalisations, obviously, but the trend is clear.
  
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  February 15, 2024 7:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

Maorification is increasing. We are about to lose our beaches.
This should wake a few New Zealanders up. Fancy having to pay to use a beach, or be banned from using it?

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/maorification-is-increasing-not-decreasing-next-we-are-about-to-lose-our-beaches/
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February 15, 2024 9:41am
- Swifty
  
  Steve, as a general statement, do you support property rights?
  
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  February 15, 2024 1:56pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes. But I don’t own a beach. Maori seem to think they own the coastline.
    
    3 1
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    February 15, 2024 3:02pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Try is Swifty, tell an Iwi that they don’t own the beach as ALL New Zealanders own it. Then duck as you are branded “racist!”
      
      2 0
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      February 15, 2024 3:15pm
    - Swifty
      
      Let’s say your family and their ancestors have permanently and continuously occupied a particular Northland bay for hundreds and hundreds of years. You’ve lived on, fished and harvested its shores for twenty or thirty generations before the Treaty was even thought of, you’ve fought off all those who tried to take it from you and you’re still there to this day.
      
      You’d be quite happy to give up ‘ownership’ to a New Zealand government and with no compensation whatsoever?
      
      Or would you dig your toes in and say “hang on a minute mate”?
      
      Now let’s say you’re a pioneering farming family who has owned and farmed a Wairarapa coastal station, legally acquired, for 150 years and along came Helen Clark who wanted to confiscate parts of it and put it in public ownership, and with no compensation whatsoever.
      
      What would be your reaction then?
      
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      February 15, 2024 3:46pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        I’d say, my ancestors signed up for The Treaty, and the Queen’s Chain belongs to all New Zealanders.
        
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        February 15, 2024 7:52pm
      - Swifty
        
        So you’re quite happy with state confiscation of property?
        
        2 0
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        February 15, 2024 8:57pm
    - Ghost
      
      How about the farmers that own beaches?
      
      1 0
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      February 15, 2024 3:54pm
Damocles11

Despite Western countries being beacons of human progress with the highest living standards & the highest levels of freedom and stable democratic government, the Left has decided that they must be destroyed. Creeping socialism burdens nations with unsustainable debt while welfare dependency and huge bloated bureaucracies are created to further weigh down productive society. Every segment of society is pitted against another as Leftist academics ‘teach’ about ‘privilege’, ‘sexism’, ‘colonialism’, and every other ‘ism’ you can think of. The goal is to create hordes of angry & bitter militant activists all attacking the societal fabric, breaking down established norms, sowing mass confusion & division. The ‘climate crisis’ is used to create further angst, division, and an all pervading sense of doom. The current onslaught by the Left is akin to a plague of termites attacking the foundations of a house. Unfortunately it seems the current process of decay and eventual destruction is irreversible, as the Left have captured the power and information structures, and therefore have control over the populace.
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February 15, 2024 9:46am
- Grunter
  
  As a simplified view, ‘The West’ has devolved into 2 clashing systems/ideologies;
  1. Socialism/Eco Nuts
  2. Traditional Western Values
  
  We will ultimately get back to the more traditional western values, but the chaos on the way through will be eye-watering IMO.
  
  All forms of socialism fail, and this woke/eco nuts version will be no different. It is happening as we speak in the EU right now. The chaos cycle is beginning.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yeah but all those failures are because they did not do socialism right.//
    
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    February 15, 2024 3:17pm
mawm

Given the recent revelations that the CIA got their foreign allies to spy on Trump’s team this is a revealing interview with Prof Jeffrey Sachs done by Judge Napolitano. My only comments are the whole CIA should be torn apart and many gaoled for life, and we should not be part of the 5eyes. The CIA is a criminal terrorist organisation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aOj41uYuK0
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February 15, 2024 9:58am
- Grunter
  
  I agree.
  
  Why on earth NZer’s think we should be part of 5Eyes and now join AUKUS is beyond my comprehension. It makes no sense whatsoever.
  
  We could be the perfect ‘trusted back channel’ between the 2 nutty superpowers China & USA and maybe help to deflate the warmongers.
  
  Other than that, ignore and stay well away from the madness, they are all crooks.
  
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  February 15, 2024 10:19am
I remember when

Lobby group’s wages war: Wairarapa Times-Age.
With a 16% jump in its staff wage pool for 2023, South Wairarapa District Council has been accused of “clandestinely jacking up wages for its bureaucracy” by the Taxpayers Union.
But the council’s Chief executive says the Council is entitled to their opinion and she is proud her staff are now paid a living wage and gender balance has been addressed.

“Her staff?”
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February 15, 2024 10:20am
- Swifty
  
  “Stuff the ratepayers. They’re just our ATM.”
  
  “Maximising value for ratepayers? Pfffft, that’s so 20th Century.”
  
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  February 15, 2024 1:51pm
- Paulus
  
  Many CEO’s not only in Councils, as sole employers, are women – look at the recent top woman exponential appointments in the main Public Service.
  Of course they are the best people for the jobs !
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:32pm
septic skeptic

Tahi Rua Toru Wha. Now back to gender studies….
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February 15, 2024 10:22am
- Paulus
  
  Eh !
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:32pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Police have just arrested a suspect
in the KC Superbowl shooting.
Reports of numerous people injured
and at least one dead.
————————————————

“Was it them again, Yogi?”
“Sure as shit looked like it in the video BooBoo”
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February 15, 2024 10:36am
- Maggie Pie
  
  UPDATE….
  
  https://twitter.com/Tr00peRR/status/1757879614607708531
  
  3 0
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  February 15, 2024 11:17am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    FYI cos….
    
    https://twitter.com/_BruceBane/status/1757877845261533588
    
    See where some in the MSM are referring to them as ‘White Supremacists’.
    
    2 0
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    February 15, 2024 11:40am
- MCōs
  
  Two people arrested, as it happens
  
  2 0
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  February 15, 2024 11:27am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Three now. Keep up Cossie!
    
    5 0
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    February 15, 2024 11:28am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, those illegals are everywhere in the US, like a pandemic.
  
  6 1
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  February 15, 2024 12:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown lockdown
    
    3 3
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    February 15, 2024 3:21pm
Grunter

As expected, the latest escalation from the Middle East as Hezbollah increase their bombing of Israel.

A war with Hezbollah is a massive step up compared to the current war with Hamas.

“This isn’t just a dribble anymore, this is war,” Israel’s national security minister, Itamar Ben Gvir, who’s long advocated a more aggressive stance against Hezbollah, said. “It is time to change the way we think.”

Other officials were more measured but also implied Israel would retaliate aggressively.

“This morning we experienced a severe attack for which the response will come soon and with strength,” said Benny Gantz, a member of Israel’s war cabinet but who heads an opposition party.

Sadly, there is no turning back now.

All of the Israeli citizens who have been evacuated from their homes in northern Israel can never return until Hezbollah is pushed north of the Litani River.

And Hezbollah will never pull back willingly.

The IDF will be going into southern Lebanon.

It is just a matter of time.

Even now, it is being reported that the IDF is preparing a “significant response” to this latest barrage which will go beyond “just attacking the source of fire”…
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February 15, 2024 12:16pm
- cmm
  
  This was always expected, but it was really just a matter of when.
  
  Yes, Hezbollah have at least 10x the capability of Hamas.
  
  Hezbollah have some serious rocketry and conventional artillery. The rockets can cover the whole of Israel and the howitzers can almost reach Tel Aviv.
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:47pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    They wont stand a chance against Cluster Bombs
    
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    February 15, 2024 4:20pm
Ghost

Hmmmm

The head of the House Intelligence Committee disclosed Wednesday that members of Congress had access to information about an unspecified “serious national security threat,” issuing a vague warning that prompted other lawmakers to downplay the urgency of the situation and urge the public to remain calm.

Article

Russia just had an unknown payload launched into orbit

Or maybe Iran have nukes

Only time will tell
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February 15, 2024 12:34pm
- Ghost
  
  Article
  
  ABC News and the New York Times cited unnamed sources as saying that the security threat Turner was referring to involved the Russia’s potential deployment of a nuclear anti-satellite weapon in space. The New York Times said US allies had also been briefed on the intelligence, which was not deemed to represent an urgent threat, as the alleged Russian capability was still in development.
  
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  February 15, 2024 12:43pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    No one with genuine knowledge of top-level Russian space weapons is telling the press about it without clearance from higher up their chain of command. Leaking that sort of stuff is bona fide treason.
    
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    February 16, 2024 12:52am
- Grunter
  
  It will be interesting. Some YT channels reporting that Russia have just jammed Ukraines drones with some new tech that renders them useless. Maybe that’s it????
  
  How real that is it is hard to say.
  
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  February 15, 2024 1:34pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Not new tech.
    Electronic Warfare (EW) is always advancing but Russia has had an advantage over NATO in this area for years.
    
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    February 16, 2024 12:53am
- Jake Dee
  
  So we’ll tell everyone that there’s a serious threat but not tell them any details of that threat.
  We’ll have a confidential briefing with congress and make sure everyone knows that we’re having a confidential briefing.
  How are any of these public statements helping?
  It’s like a pack of monkeys are driving the bus.
  
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  February 16, 2024 12:47am
Jack5

Red Radio continues its bias ..

With headline and introduction it sneers at Finance Minister Nicola Willis for using a phrase that it seems to think was invented by NZ’s Labour Party.

A “Digital political journalist,” whatever the hell that is, accuses the Coalition Minister of “purloining” what it calls one of Labour’s favourite phrases. Here’s what they reported she said at an economic forum:

“”I view this programme of work I just described as the bread and butter of responsible government.”

“Bread and butter” goes back to the Middle Ages, and appears in Samuel Pepys diary. Since then it has become widespread as a description for economically basic – in the way that Nicola Willis used it.

“Purloin” means “to steal,” which implies that the words originated with NZ Labour.

Examples of the words’ use as used well before Labour in NZ:

https://usdictionary.com/idioms/bread-and-butter/

Radio NZ on Minister “purloining” Labour words:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/509252/finance-minister-points-to-government-as-bread-and-butter-in-economic-speech
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February 15, 2024 1:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nicola Willis tight lipped about Public Sector employed getting the DCM.
NZ needs to keep it’s core services and add to most. I mean Hospital on the floor staff (admin are hopeless), Police, Civil Defence, all along that line. But the Public Sector jobs that just relate to the Government could be cut by 75% and the NZ public would not even notice. You know who, the ones who turn up at work only to wait for knock off time. Councils are over populated and paid too much as well but that is not general Govt.
The increase in the last six years was purely to get the unemployed numbers down.
Too many middle managers who just pass the buck for a job.
Not sure about education, but the Marxists need an overhaul.
Nicole Willis mentions assurance. “Can you assure us that you can do that job?” Nope, fuck off then, DCM.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/willis-tight-lipped-on-how-many-public-service-jobs-will-be-cut/ar-BB1ii0Ea?
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February 15, 2024 1:16pm
- cmm
  
  “Government could be cut by 75% and the NZ public would not even notice.”
  
  Yes you bloody well would notice:
  * Less traffic on the roads.
  * Pubs not starting to fill up at 3pm on Friday.
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:58pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Lunchtime on Friday in Wellywood.
    
    5 2
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    February 15, 2024 3:24pm
    - kowtow
      
      I wonder how many are still ‘working” from home .
      
      4 0
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      February 15, 2024 4:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Harry sees Dad for 30 minutes. Why?
I don’t usually comment on Royal stuff because I don’t really care.
California to London and back same day? Maybe someone said “get your arse back here boy or no spongy pudding”

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/health/other/why-harry-only-saw-cancer-stricken-father-king-charles-for-30-minutes/ar-BB1i7Bn7
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February 15, 2024 1:23pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Climate criminal
  
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  February 15, 2024 7:55pm
NothingLeft

Excess death smoking gun? (white fibrous amyloid clots being found by embalmers in ~20-30% of autopsy’s, not seen prior to Covid vaccination programs) Dr John Campbell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rAoqhTUU0g
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February 15, 2024 1:43pm
- miltonF
  
  It’s kind of what you’d expect to happen really. Program the body to create a bunch of random proteins and what do you know, your arteries are now full of random proteins. Surprise!
  
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  February 15, 2024 6:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Live in South Carolina.
Lefties, get your glass of milk or alcohol free lemonade and lock yourself in the basement so you don’t get anxiety attacks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PSxaBWDXvo&list=TLPQMTUwMjIwMjSbVG5_MSkNWQ&index=2
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February 15, 2024 1:46pm
Jack5

Winston Peters has elaborated on NZ First’s position on the Treaty Principles Parliamentary Committee hearing.

Talking to Sean Plunket on the Platform video show today, Peters said a “consensus of common sense” with which NZ First could agree might emerge from the Select Committee.

The position of National seems to be the ACT bill will not proceed beyond the first stage.

Plunket was pressing Peters on NZ First’s position on the bill.

It’s a 6 minute clip:

https://youtu.be/-c7-uggIm-s?si=_q8D2Oy0l7jY5qKk
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February 15, 2024 1:46pm
- mandk
  
  Couldn’t Seymour organise a Citizens Initiated Referendum, if the Bill fails to progress beyond first reading?
  
  I would sign the petition.
  
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  February 15, 2024 3:54pm
Ghost

Bastards

Live: One person dead, 22 injured in shooting at Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl parade
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February 15, 2024 2:01pm
- Its only I
  
  Wonder what the motivation was ?
  
  Hope it wasn’t the deep state syops BS conspiracy involving a pop singer and a player that’s been scaring the crap out of the MAGA congregation.
  
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  February 15, 2024 2:50pm
Swifty

How proud I am of my fellow countryfolk. What a wonderful society we are – always on the lookout for each other, always thinking of the other fellow.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crime/teen-gang-member-soldier-huntley-sentenced-for-south-auckland-murder-of-semi-pro-rugby-player-taeao-ola/7OIKSXIT3FDU3NWBR6IK6WXZZ4/

//
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February 15, 2024 2:32pm
cmm

We’ve lost 46000 young New Zealanders – many of them graduates, but it’s OK because we got an influx of 160k from elsewhere.

Losing quality, gaining quantity?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/immigration-boom-rolls-on-but-record-number-of-kiwis-left-in-2023/T3ZQPZHEWBF3VF5OYTMFNJBYEI/
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February 15, 2024 2:56pm
- Jack5
  
  New Zealand’s immigration policy is so stupid, so illogical, you have to wonder whether the Immigration Department has been corrupted.
  
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  February 15, 2024 5:14pm
Maggie Pie

Whenever we go for walk along the beach during an incoming tide, friends always larf at me when I run up the sand the moment the water washes in…..

https://twitter.com/AMAZINGNATURE/status/1757869703676977320

There’s an old saying: “She who larfs last, larfs longest”
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February 15, 2024 3:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Water washes in, then you get the dizzies.
  Yep, keep moving, takes it away, but that animal gets a super quick reaction from most.
  
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  February 15, 2024 3:41pm
Ghost

Wait, what. Diplomats to nz, never had a decent conversation with our last foreign minister

Why am I not surprised

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuemQi6EC5Y
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February 15, 2024 3:03pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Nanaia never really looked comfortable in the role.
  She wasn’t as a snappy dresser like Winston 😀
  
  11 1
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  February 15, 2024 3:17pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You expect a pin stripped sack, then a tie?
    So Black polished shoes or some warehouse sneakers?
    Maggie, my head hurts now.
    
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    February 15, 2024 3:44pm
Swifty

Start ‘em young I say:

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/WnPfhnkwfCtJmE16/?mibextid=KsPBc6

😀
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February 15, 2024 3:26pm
Maggie Pie

A bestie retweets….. 😀

‘Hilary’s cleaner is dating Hilary’s bank account’

https://twitter.com/JoeyMannarinoUS/status/1757898989012176946
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February 15, 2024 3:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

How can you be this fucking stupid and get paid?
Biden’s swiss cheese brain still has more clues than AOC.
The people who put AOC there have long gone – looking for another controllable idiot.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/aoc-says-biden-s-age-doesn-t-matter-because-trump-has-91-indictments/ss-BB1ihlFE?
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February 15, 2024 3:56pm
Jack5

Inflation running at more than 20 per cent – a month – in Argentina, and more people are going hungry.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/more-more-hunger-argentinas-soup-kitchens-brink-collapse-high-inflation-2024-02-14/
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February 15, 2024 4:39pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone else like me get p*ssed off with Chloe’s constant nodding?

She starts before James has even asked the question.

SHEESH!!
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February 15, 2024 4:45pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, there must be a question which would be inappropriate to nod to.
  
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  February 15, 2024 5:28pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not for Chloe. She has ‘issues’….
    
    https://twitter.com/TheConsultant18/status/1757691757461209313
    
    4 0
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    February 15, 2024 7:24pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Gosh the whole you-go-girl thing in NZ produces some lovely individuals.
      
      /
      
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      February 15, 2024 8:53pm
kevn

Maggie… I used to have a nodding dog on the back parcel shelf of my car. So kitch people loved it. Ceramic coated with some sort of fuzz.
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February 15, 2024 4:54pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  OMG…i love those! Followed one the other day. Can yu still get them?
  
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  February 15, 2024 5:15pm
Albie

Watched question time for the first time in ages last night on replay. Noticed the Labor sycophants are the most enthusiastic nodding dog’s, but even the Nat’s had their fare share, although somewhat more subtle!
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February 15, 2024 5:40pm
Swifty

I wonder how many lefty NZ politicians secretly wish for a $50/hr minimum wage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey_0ApAtRcs
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February 15, 2024 6:06pm
than

Good riddance.

https://www.police.govt.nz/news/release/update-fatal-police-shooting-matamata-piako-area
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February 15, 2024 6:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  “And another ones down, and another ones down, another one bites the dust”
  
  – Queen
  
  YAY!! Police morale at an all time high.
  Mitch is the best thing that’s happened to this country.
  
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  February 15, 2024 7:12pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/350181364/bankrupt-company-director-jailed-over-unpaid-tax
How come a person like this is named and shamed for money matters, but when it comes to yet another little maori kid murdered by some feral the killers are never identified ?
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February 15, 2024 7:20pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  As my partners Accountant has always said… “Just pay your tax”
  
  Maori babies being murdered….nowhere near as important.
  
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  February 15, 2024 7:53pm
Ghost

West Virginia Attorney General Patrick Morrisey Tuesday urged Vice President Kamala Harris to invoke the 25th Amendment in light of what his office called “Biden’s rapid cognitive decline.”

Article

Seems to be more of momentum for this. I don’t believe Biden will be president by the time the election rolls around, maybe not even see the end of summer as president. President Kamala will be sworn in this year. Just need to see who will replace him as candidate. Won’t be Obama. I wouldn’t be surprised if they aren’t even a politician. Time will tell and no doubt the democrats will start putting hints out in the media before it’s confirmed.
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February 15, 2024 8:13pm
Cantabrian

I don’t think anyone has picked up on this yet. On The Platform today Michael Laws had a very good and passionate rave about Mana o te wai statements and how Maori mythology and creativism is now driving policy. He aks what would happen if Christian beliefs were driving modern policy.
Well worth a listen:
https://theplatform.kiwi/podcasts/episode/michael-laws-shares-his-thoughts-on-te-mana-o-te-wai
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February 15, 2024 8:21pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  RCR interviewed Margaret Mutu this morning. I only caught a bit of it. The bit where she basically claimed non Maori are “guests” of Maori in NZ. I’ll come back to it with sick bag at the ready.
  
  Also on RCR Rodney Hide interviewed David Seymour regarding David’s attempts to get a referendum up on the alleged “treaty principles”.
  
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  February 15, 2024 8:30pm
  - Jack5
    
    RCR??
    
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    February 15, 2024 9:57pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Reality Check Radio. Get into it. It’s good for you.
      
      https://realitycheck.radio/
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:16pm
  - AitchW
    
    Mutu is a dark green racist. She hates non-Maori with a passion. God knows who conditioned her, but years of academic institutionalisation certainly helped. God help our students.
    
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    February 15, 2024 10:56pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Certainly appears to a be a super smooth talking propagandist also.
      
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      February 15, 2024 11:17pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    MARGARET MUTU: PROFESSOR OF MAORI STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF AUCKLAND: ON THE CURRENT DEBATE ON THE TREATY AND TREATY PRINCIPLES:
    https://realitycheck.radio/margaret-mutu-professor-of-maori-studies-at-the-university-of-auckland-on-the-current-waitangi-treaty-and-treaty-principles-debate/
    
    DAVID SEYMOUR: LEADER OF THE ACT PARTY: ON HIS TREATY PRINCIPLES BILL:
    https://realitycheck.radio/david-seymour-leader-of-the-act-party-on-his-treaty-principles-bill/
    
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    February 15, 2024 11:20pm

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