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August 29, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 29 August 2024

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Simon

Remember when Brenton Tarrant slayed all those innocent people. Just gunned them down.
You would think after this terrible crime that all violent crime would be an absolute taboo for the NZ state and society. That Tarrant’s crime so terrible it would cause a cultural shift in how violent crime is punished.

Instead, innocent now people are shot and stabbed and the State is meh. Tarrant’s crime is used for pushing of online censorship while violent criminals just cruise along like Tarrant never happened.
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August 29, 2024 8:04am
Anthony Melchett

Alwyn yesterday: In Term 4 of 2023 Sixty (yes 60) NZ High Schools had less than 30% of their students fully attending.

The papers today: Thousands of young people have failed new co-requisite NCEA literacy and numeracy tests.

It’s the first year students have needed to pass them to achieve NCEA – and in May, 54 percent failed the maths test.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/kate-gainsford-secondary-principals-council-chair-on-thousands-of-students-failing-compulsory-ncea-literacy-and-numeracy-tests/

There is so much going here.

Firstly – parents. Stop staring at your phone and get your kids to school. Every day. I am seeing so much of it now where parents are addicted to devices and withdraw from family life. They give the kids one and they just withdraw too. Can’t be bothered going to school? Thats OK just don’t go. It’s an absolute zombie culture. You can see the kids who have parents with standards and that actually care. It pretty much matches the ncea pass rate.

Secondly, what do you mean this is the first year you have to pass literacy and numeracy tests to get ncea? That should have always been a minimum requirement.

No wonder we are an unproductive low wage economy. We are lazy and we can’t read or count. We can’t even be bothered sending our kids to school to turn this around.

Read to your kids. Talk to them like humans and have language standards at home eg no swearing. Get them to school, help them if they struggle with maths. Buy them a ball instead of a device and make them play a team sport of their choice.

Sounds easy, but way too many parents simply don’t care.
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August 29, 2024 8:05am
- Grunter
  
  Well said – add ‘can’t write’ to the comment “We are lazy, can’t read or count”.
  
  Ask a young adult now to write out a list (or anything) and almost always is an unreadable scrawl. Even Uni Grads
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:18am
- Flossie
  
  Unfortunately the idea that “school’s optional” carries right through to “work’s optional”. We know a number of businesses looking for staff but can’t find people who firstly can pass a drug test, and secondly turn up every day.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:02am
- Burtland
  
  Education would appear to be in the final stages of collapse
  
  This will flow through to the broader economy within 10 years – and yet there still appears to be no urgency about fixing it – just some performance measures. If you observe the workplace, there is a fairly short window before the competent all leave or retire. The older generation are sick of bearing the burden.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:11am
- surfing
  
  And yet school principals have deep concerns that the government is trying to improve standards…
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/why-bay-principals-are-concerned-about-changes-to-the-maths-curriculum/IGC5COM3SJE6HLNY7UA2AWHRPM/
  
  The whole system is rigged to fail, from teachers, to principals, to the entire ministry of education.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:43am
- cmm
  
  Everything always comes down to motivation. Nothing will change unless motivations change.
  
  In the modern welfare society where is the motivation for the average (or more importantly the below average) individual to go to school etc?
  
  There are heaps of jobs out there that require minimal schooling and pay relatively well.
  
  Truck driving pays the same as nursing and requires far less training etc. Truck driving doesn’t need 3 years of study (and three years of lost wages).
  
  Even labourers are earning $50k to $60k a year.
  
  And of course there’s also the dole….
  
  Many, probably, most kids are highly influenced by social media. To most of these kids, becoming a Tiktok sensation is more plausible than becoming an engineer. Although they would be wrong (ie. there are extremely few social influencers) that is not how they perceive things. Perceptions are stronger than reality.
  
  So why would anyone believe that they need to go to school, and do well, to get a reasonable job?
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:53am
  - PurplePen
    
    I used to earn 8 dollars an hour in the early 80’s washing dishes. RBNZ in today’s money says that’s 45 an hour wages which is about 90,000 annual wage. It would suggest that the mid-wage and further up job salaries haven’t kept pace with inflation and they’re the ones being ripped off.
    
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    August 29, 2024 5:35pm
  - AitchW
    
    Try driving or labouring into your 60s. I guess when you’re 17 you don’t think that far ahead. If I had a child leaving school now I’d encourage them to take up a trade then move to Aus once qualified.
    
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    August 29, 2024 5:51pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Driving ain’t that hard, HW
      
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      August 29, 2024 6:41pm
Tauhei Notts

Not much in it but Betfair have Trump back as favourite.
They were even on 22nd, then she went to favourite.
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August 29, 2024 8:10am
- [email protected]
  
  How are you accessing betfair.com? Won’t let me, says I live in NZ and not allowed access.
  
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  August 29, 2024 8:27am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Use a VPN. It is a worthwhile small cost.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:02am
    - Biscuit
      
      Benedict, does Betfair have a market up on what date Prez Trump will claim ‘It was all rigged!’ this time around?
      
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      August 29, 2024 9:27am
      - gonzo
        
        That date/time all depends on if he wins or not.
        If he wins, he’ll say it wasn’t rigged.
        If he loses he’ll say it was and wasn’t fair.
        
        That’s his nature and pretty much his entire approach to life.🙂
        Take it as you will.
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:20am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No idea.
        
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        August 29, 2024 11:27am
      - Conservatarian
        
        “Trump is the only candidate to have lost a US presidential election and complained about it”
        
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        August 29, 2024 1:54pm
      - ChristopherW2
        
        In fairness, the US Democrats have been rigging elections for a while, to a significantly greater extent and increasingly blatantly in recent cycles – so the election will be rigged.
        
        If Mr Trump can win by a margin large enough to overcome this, it won’t matter and it won’t be an immediate issue (although it desperately needs to be stopped); if he loses, it would be remiss of him not to raise it as an issue.
        
        No law-abiding Kiwi would tolerate a fraction of the illegality that goes on in US elections, so there’s no reason Mr Trump should be obliged to.
        
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        August 29, 2024 5:29pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I can access it but have not tried to join.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:16am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    You can thank McKanulty, he delivered the Marxist betting forcing you to use his favourite company
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:37am
    - pdm
      
      Bullied the rest of the TAB management into it G?
      
      No surprises there.
      
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      August 29, 2024 9:55am
    - plc
      
      [Mod – no need for that]
      
      The decision was made in 1996 under a National government when sports betting was introduced.
      
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      August 29, 2024 11:06am
  - NothingLeft
    
    https://www.realclearpolling.com/betting-odds/2024/president
    
    This lists betting odds across many bookmakers including betfair.
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:25am
- All_on_Red
  
  Polymarket shows Trump 50 Harris 48
  https://polymarket.com/event/presidential-election-winner-2024?
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:01am
  - Jake Dee
    
    Interesting because Manifold has
    Harris 54%
    Trump 45%
    The Rationalist Bayesians will predict that these two markets will converge.
    
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    August 30, 2024 12:00am
- AitchW
  
  I fear that if Trump were to win the left will make the Capitol riots look like a teddy bears picnic.
  Thank god we live far, far away from that madness!
  
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  August 29, 2024 5:53pm
surfing

Saturday is the last day of winter. Brisbane looking to hit 37c.

What is summer like there?
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August 29, 2024 8:23am
- All_on_Red
  
  Its warm because of the Hunga Tonga Volcano
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:03am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    No
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:16am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Yes
      
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      August 29, 2024 9:22am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Actually I might change my mind to ‘not sure now’
      Some Research produces this;
      Jenkins, S., Smith, C., Allen, M. et al. Tonga eruption increases chance of temporary surface temperature anomaly above 1.5 °C. Nat. Clim. Chang. 13, 127–129 (2023). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41558-022-01568-2
      ‘Abstract
      On 15 January 2022, the Hunga Tonga–Hunga Ha’apai (HTHH) eruption injected 146 MtH2O and 0.42 MtSO2 into the stratosphere. This large water vapour perturbation means that HTHH will probably increase the net radiative forcing, unusual for a large volcanic eruption, increasing the chance of the global surface temperature anomaly temporarily exceeding 1.5 °C over the coming decade. Here we estimate the radiative response to the HTHH eruption and derive the increased risk that the global mean surface temperature anomaly shortly exceeds 1.5 °C following the eruption’
      https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-022-01568-2#article-info
      
      But then there is this contradictory view;
      ‘Because water vapor is a strong emitter of electromagnetic radiation in the infrared, the enhanced stratospheric moisture has led to local radiative cooling. Fig. 4 shows deseasonalized temperature anomalies at 22 hPa (approximately 27 km) averaged between 30°S and 15°S. A gradual cooling since January 2022 is readily seen, consistent with expected radiative effects of enhanced water vapor. Temperature in June 2022 was 4.39 °K below average, the lowest since at least 17 years, likely longer, and about 1 K lower than the previous record. June temperatures in previous years were within 2 K from the average.’
      https://gmao.gsfc.nasa.gov/research/science_snapshots/2022/Hunga_Tonga_stratosphere.php
      
      So one says warming the other cooling
      *Shrugs*
      Apologies Benedict
      
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      August 29, 2024 9:44am
      - sirknz
        
        TLDR:
        
        The experts don’t really know.
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:00am
  - Grunter
    
    Yep – straightforward science of increased water vapour which is the most abundant GHG. Just another inconvenient truth for the Global Boiling scammers…..
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:22am
    - kowtow
      
      Dihydrogen Oxide , the leading greenhouse gas , according to the science, and yet we don’t have any calls for a dewaterised economy.
      
      What’s good for carbon should be good for water.
      
      That’s how mad this whole global boiling nonsense is.
      
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      August 29, 2024 9:53am
      - imalwaysright
        
        I can’t work out how CO2 gets into the upper atmosphere, or anywhere near it.
        CO2 is more dense than air which is why it is primarily absorbed by the plants, creatures, and the planet surface.
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:26am
      - rangitoto
        
        Much more important for us is eliminating the hydroxylic acid polluting New Zealand lakes and rivers. The government are doing nothing to stop this outrage.
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:38am
      - cmm
        
        always: I would expect that CO2 in the upper atmosphere gets there in two major ways:
        * Huge ejections of gas from volcanoes.
        * Methane being broken down by ozone into CO2 and H2O,
        
        There will be some CO2 getting there by the random movement of molecules, but that is likely less significant.
        
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        August 29, 2024 11:59am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Cmm
        And if and when co2 gets to the upper atmosphere by whatever means, it will, by the fact of its inherent greater density relative to air, then descend. Plants wouldn’t evolve to depend on a molecule that wasn’t in their vicinity.
        Saying that, there are tens if not hundreds of variables that influence the makeup of what we call the atmosphere, you would know the problems of dealing with even a few variables. The arrogance of scientists saying they know the effect of one variable versus the rest is wishful thinking to be kind, wilful ignorance or corrupt, to be honest.
        
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        August 29, 2024 1:12pm
      - cmm
        
        always: ” Plants wouldn’t evolve to depend on a molecule that wasn’t in their vicinity.”
        
        There isn’t much CO2 at ground level because the plants used it all up. They’re literally on the starvation line.
        
        Many people seem to think that if there had not been CO2 then plants would have evolved to run on, say, chlorine or silicon instead.
        
        However, things don’t really work like that. The chemistry of carbon make it extremely useful for the type of reactions that make life happen.
        
        Other elements in the same column of the periodic table (silicon etc) have some similar chemical properties but those reactions would have to happen at way higher temperatures making the energy equations of photosynthesis etc impractical.
        
        So we’re kinda stuck with carbon…
        
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        August 29, 2024 4:15pm
    - Burtland
      
      red radio this morning were talking about flooding 167,000 hectares of farmed peat in the Waikato …
      
      Government officials have been quietly exploring how much carbon dioxide could be saved if the country reflooded its peat soils.
      
      Maybe they should have read the Paris Agreement – it excludes changes that affect food output.
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/526471/is-the-heat-about-to-go-on-fonterra-over-farming-on-drained-peat
      
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      August 29, 2024 10:33am
      - sherp
        
        Just think of all that carbon that could be stored if those calculating co2 output figured out meat milk and wool from animal agricultural was actually carbon based with that carbon being sourced from atmospheric co2…. overnight there would be tons of co2 stored.. if they just based their calculations on co2 absorption on reality instead of idealogy
        
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        August 29, 2024 11:21am
      - cmm
        
        I’ve got a much better idea….
        
        Taking red radio offline would save massive amounts of CO2.
        
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        August 29, 2024 4:16pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  At 15 degrees above the August average, that is nothing to celebrate. Quite the opposite.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:17am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    In August it is. The same thing in Feb, not so much.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:31am
  - Burtland
    
    “15 deg above the average” is weather not climate change
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:35am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      FFS. I assure you that it is climate change.
      
      https://www.willyweather.com.au/news/6954/australia+records+hottest+july,+bureau+of+meteorology+says.html
      
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      August 29, 2024 11:31am
      - Countrygirl
        
        Their records do only go back about 100 years though.
        I still feel it must have got pretty warm to sort out the big ice age.
        
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        August 29, 2024 11:47am
      - Bridgenag
        
        Do you get paid to be here support the Orwellian nonsense? Of course not. Probably in the University lunchtime.
        
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        August 29, 2024 12:19pm
      - tedbear
        
        I heard the cause of climate change is pollution.
        How is temperature pollution?
        
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        August 29, 2024 12:26pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        It’s a change of climate for sure. Any proof that humans caused it?
        
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        August 29, 2024 7:05pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      A handbook for climate-change deniers.
      
      1. It is weather, not climate.
      
      2. Emissions are not actually increasing.
      
      3. Even if they are increasing, the increase has no impact on the climate since there is no convincing evidence of warming.
      
      4. Even if there is warming, it is due due to natural causes.
      
      5. The climate has always changed.
      
      6. Even if the warming cannot be explained by natural causes, the human impact is small. Don’t worry.
      
      7. Even if the current and future projected human effects on climate are not negligible, the changes are generally going to be good for us. Carbon dioxide is a plant food
      
      8. Whether or not the changes are going to be good for us, humans are very adept at adapting to changes; besides, it’s too late to do anything about it, and/or a technological fix is bound to come along when we really need it.
      ……
      I have seen every single one of these arguments advanced here.
      
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      August 29, 2024 5:42pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “Climate change denier” is simply propagandistic name calling.
        
        Your list tells us nothing about the climate.
        
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        August 29, 2024 7:07pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Spring and autumns large temperature swings tend to see large perturbations to hot or cold as Rossby waves precess back and forth around polar axis. Hot or cold autumn and spring days and even extended periods of weeks due to these effects are meaningless. Just weather.
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:29am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I see the “climate change is a hoax” brigade is out in force. By lunchtime I will expect the “COVID vaccines are killing millions” brigade.
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:29am
    - Countrygirl
      
      I don’t consider it a hoax as much as what happens over long periods of time. Having been a farmer long ago, it was always apparent that nature eventually sorted things out.
      Global warming was ditched in favour of climate change because the computer calculations did not often follow what was actually happening.
      
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      August 29, 2024 11:51am
      - PurplePen
        
        They still don’t. They run lots of simulations into the future and take the average to predict what the climate will be. But when the run the simulations un reverse from today, none of them marry up with historic data. It’s all very much not much of a science.
        
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        August 29, 2024 5:40pm
    - sherp
      
      Yea government just needs to increase taxes untill nobody can afford anything that will fix the weather.
      
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      August 29, 2024 12:28pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      That human produced Co2 drives the climate (to any significant or worrisome degree) is a hypothesis.
      
      That hypothesis has been shot to pieces by acclaimed scientists like Richard Lindzen, Will Happer and John Clauser (and many many others). Would you call those people “climate change deniers” (WTF does that even mean?) BY?
      
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      August 29, 2024 7:12pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes.
        
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        August 29, 2024 8:05pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Do you actually listen to these people or just believe the pathetic name calling and slander that sites like Wikipedia and DeSmogBlog write about them?
        
        “Denier” is the language of cults, not science.
        
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        August 29, 2024 8:45pm
  - cmm
    
    Oh come on now BY you know what averages mean.
    
    Last week it was well below average. Where were the FULL CAPS headlines?
    
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    August 29, 2024 12:01pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes I studied several statistics courses at undergraduate level. What is your point?
      
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      August 29, 2024 8:06pm
  - cmm
    
    More importantly, BY, is this:
    
    Assuming for now all this Climate Change stuff is real…
    
    What are you actually going to do that will actually change anything one jot either way?
    
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    August 29, 2024 12:03pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      What to do about climate change I am happy to debate all day. I think that my comments over the years reflect such willingness. What I am not prepared to do is debate assertions that it is not happening.
      
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      August 29, 2024 8:08pm
- AitchW
  
  HOT! 30s at 7am, close to or over 40 in the afternoon.
  
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  August 29, 2024 5:55pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Aus is no stranger to sporadic extremes. Nothing to do with the climate alarmist fairy story. “Brissy” is generally hot and steamy in summer. A sweat-bath if you’re not acclimatised Also often rains and there are spectacular lightning storms. Winter is generally quite pleasant (mild) if you are holidaying there from a colder place.
  
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  August 29, 2024 6:55pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Here we go again. These are August temperature records in dozens of locations. You are “nothing to see here. It is just weather.”
    
    Really interesting AI analysis of twitter feeds.
    
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-023-50591-6
    
    Funny that those who believe COVID vaccination conspiracy theories are also likely to be climate change deniers. What I see in the commenters here supports that conclusion. Mention COVID vaccines or climate change and everyone loses their minds. Why that happens I have no idea. These views are certainly not instigated by the owner of the blog.
    
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    August 29, 2024 8:16pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Key point; NOT “unprecedented”.
      
      Australia is a country of extremes.
      
      We are in an interglacial coming out of an ice age and also coming out of the little ice age. So temperatures rise. Nothing unusual. Go check the ice core records.
      
      Nice try with the covid stuff. I’m fairly moderate on that topic, comment little on it, and keep an open mind on it.
      
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      August 29, 2024 8:47pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        You seem reasonably intelligent BY. I’m sure you’ll see the light at some point 😛
        
        I too was a believer in the climate alarmist narrative 20 or so years ago.
        
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        August 29, 2024 9:25pm
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        We were “coming out of an ice age” 10,000+ yrs ago, not now.
        
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        August 30, 2024 8:05am
Grunter

Where to now for NATO?

I read that both Poland and Germany have come out saying no more weapons and aid for Ukraine. Turkey (NATO’s 2nd largest military after the USA) is looking to join BRICS (The EU keeps declining them), so they’re not going to support a war against Russia.

The dirty Ruskies have now ruled out any peace negotiations (too late for that), and are smashing the Ukraine power grid as they head into another winter, and taking out more territory on the frontline.

Meanwhile, the deluded Zelensky thinks his PR stunt into Kursk is the blueprint for a wider ‘Victory Plan’ which he is taking to Biden/Harris & Trump in a few weeks. The USA still doesn’t understand what the hell Zelensky was trying to achieve by sending troops into Russia, so good luck with that!

I’m sure there are a number of views, but the reality is NATO either goes full out or goes home.
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August 29, 2024 8:38am
- Surely Knott
  
  Good summary. But, “The dirty Ruskies .. are smashing the Ukraine power grid..” after someone (the US?) blew up the Russians Pipeline.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:23am
  - NothingLeft
    
    Seems it was most likely the Ukrainians that did Nordstream
    
    But Russia started targetting Ukrainian power system 6 months ago. Ukraine is really going to struggle this winter.
    
    Ukraine are in turn hitting Russian oil infrastrutcture hard. Their long range drone production is ramping and they will soon be able to shift to more numerous electricity system targets.
    
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    August 29, 2024 5:48pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      That Ukraine destroyed the Nord Stream pipelines is vanishingly unlikely. A major part of a covert sabotage mission like that will be a plausible deniability cover story.
      I could run through some of the technical aspects of the story if you like but look at it from a geo-political aspect as well.
      How likely is it that Ukraine accomplished such a mission without the full knowledge and cooperation of the USA and also escaped detection without cooperation from the European security forces?
      The cover story will be pushed to the fore when it is most needed.
      
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      August 30, 2024 12:17am
- Paulus
  
  Russia is still able to control much of the economies of both Poland, and now Germany, who are falling by the wayside, due to the control of what both need for production – Oil and Gas.
  Well done Merkel
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:46am
  - All_on_Red
    
    I think both have escaped the grip of the Bear
    ‘Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki says his country will ban all imports of Russian gas, oil and coal by the end of the year.(2022)’
    https://www.npr.org/2022/03/30/1089662657/poland-ban-russian-oil
    ‘Germany no longer depends on Russian imports for its energy supply, the country’s finance minister has told the BBC.
    Christian Lindner said Germany had completely diversified its energy infrastructure since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine last year.’
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64312400
    
    I bet its cost them though
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:42am
    - mawm
      
      German industry is moving their operations out of Germany because of the cost of energy since their loss of cheap Russian gas.
      
      3 1
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      August 29, 2024 2:10pm
    - GJM
      
      They may not be importign direclty, but they certainly are indirectly affected. They import fuel form overseas – made from black market oil from russia. They import plastics, chemicals, fertilizer and products from China, made from oil from guess where.
      
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      September 2, 2024 3:02pm
- Burtland
  
  The NATO-Ukraine Council met on Wednesday (28 August 2024) following recent heavy Russian airstrikes against Ukrainian civilians and infrastructure. Allies strongly condemned Russia’s indiscriminate strikes and reaffirmed their commitment to further strengthen Ukraine’s defences.
  
  https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_228398.htm
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:41am
- NothingLeft
  
  I don’t know where you get your info but it seems likely to be Russian in origin.
  
  Poland:
  “Poland has allocated approximately 100 billion zlotys ($26 billion), equivalent to 3.3% of its GDP, on lethal and non-lethal assistance for Ukraine, President Andrzej Duda announced on Sunday [25 Aug].
  
  Germany:
  “The reports that Germany is allegedly stopping military aid to Ukraine are incorrect,” Heorhy Tykhyi, a spokesman for Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry, told Ukrainian news agency Ukrinform. “This is the same kind of manipulation as the previous reports about (Germany) halving aid for the next year.”
  
  Germany’s budget for 2024 envisages military aid for Ukraine worth 8 billion euros, while the draft budget for 2025 includes only 4 billion euros in military aid for Kyiv.
  
  And something that is generally being missed is that there is still the options of stripping Russias frozen assets in the west worth several hundred $Billion. Earnings from that are already being directed to Ukraine, and given the enormous number of war crimes Russia has committed (over 100k documented, more day by day), the excuse for confiscation is easy to manufacture.
  
  Ukraine is also rapidly increasing it’s deep-strike capacity with new weapons targeting Russia’s oil infrastructure – they are now at the point that they need to import fuel. It’s starting to affect their ability to fight.
  
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  August 29, 2024 5:41pm
Maggy Wassilieff

It must be confusing being Chris Hipkins……

Is that a woman? Maybe, perhaps, Not sure, possibly, could be.

Did Maori cede sovereignty? No, no, no, Yes.

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-brash-hipkins-dangerous-statement-on-m%C4%81ori-not-ceding-sovereignty
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August 29, 2024 8:41am
- surfing
  
  What happens to regions where multiple groups are claiming sovereignty?
  
  20 1
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  August 29, 2024 8:47am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Usually wars.😅
    
    27 2
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    August 29, 2024 9:03am
    - Grunter
      
      Always…..
      
      13 1
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      August 29, 2024 9:23am
    - mandk
      
      Correct.
      
      As Sir Apirana Ngata noted in his seminal paper, NZ was lawless before the Treaty.
      
      There was nothing to prevent wars and pillage between different tribes, and so they happened – often and repeatedly.
      
      13 1
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      August 29, 2024 10:41am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Yeees. I wonder why lefties want us to be immersed in that culture?
        
        2 1
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        August 29, 2024 6:57pm
  - JohnRidd
    
    I think that situation usually results in an interaction called warfare.
    
    18 1
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    August 29, 2024 9:07am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggy: I can’t be bothered with the palaver I apparently have to go through to become an “approved commenter” on that site, but I agree 100% with Brash on this issue.
  
  As he says, Sir Apirana Ngata was very clear that sovereignty was ceded in 1840, and in his 1922 paper, tells his people who don’t like that to “blame your ancestors!”
  
  Also of great interest to me is that he thought Article 3 – the one which extended to Maori British citizenship – was by far the most important of the three articles in that accursed document. No-one ever says anything about Article 3 today.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:00am
  - pdm
    
    DG when I became an approved commenter it was very straight forward.
    
    I emailed DPF, stated my case and asked for his approval.
    
    Done.
    
    7 0
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    August 29, 2024 9:04am
    - David Garrett
      
      Bene: Well said…except the last para. Become a fucking Aussie?? No thank you! I don’t know if you have spent any time there, but while we have much in common with them, they are also a very different culture from us, revealed starkly in how they play cricket compared to us. (They ruthlessly take advantage wherever they can get away with it; we are still gentlemen).
      
      And I have never had an Aussie sheila in my bed, and I never plan to. She’d have to agree to say absolutely nothing at all in that dreadful “strine” accent until the deed was done!
      
      3 17
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      August 29, 2024 9:10am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “I don’t know if you have spent any time there, but while we have…”
        
        I am a citizen.
        
        Come on David. Not all Australian women speak in hideous ascents.
        
        Anyway about 500,000 New Zealanders don’t share your aversion.
        
        12 1
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        August 29, 2024 9:18am
      - David Garrett
        
        Bene: The 500,000 kiwis who choose to live in the land of snakes, venomous spiders, jellyfish, crocodiles and seemingly endless desert are very welcome. I don’t ever intend to join them.
        
        12 4
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        August 29, 2024 9:26am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Most Australians have never seen a snake. Or been to the outback.
        
        More seriously, within 30 years, the wealth differential between the countries may well end the free movement of New Zealanders to Australia.
        
        21 2
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        August 29, 2024 9:32am
      - Surely Knott
        
        Lots of NZers were also very anti-Brexit but when i asked anti brexit friends do they think we should join Australia and it was a unanimous no. So very inconsistent thinking.
        
        10 1
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        August 29, 2024 9:34am
      - cmm
        
        DG: Spiders, snakes, crocs and jellyfish don’t come anywhere near making a dent on the NZ murder rate.
        
        Spider deaths: last recorded in 1979.
        Box jellyfish: approx 1 death per 3 years.
        Crocs: approx 1.5 deaths per year.
        Snakes: approx 2 or 3 per year.
        All up 5 a year. Scaled to NZ that’s 1 per year – far less dangerous than earthquakes in NZ.
        
        All up the Outback is far safer than South Auckland.
        
        23 2
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        August 29, 2024 9:47am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “All up the Outback is far safer than South Auckland…”
        
        Indeed. Having driven a vehicle in remote Australia a couple of times, there are three things that will get you killed, at least three things I am aware of. 🙂
        
        1. Driving at night. You WILL hit a kangaroo.
        
        2. Falling asleep while driving at 140 kmh.
        
        3. Taking a road off the main highways and then breaking down.
        
        8 1
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        August 29, 2024 11:37am
      - Pope Punctilious II
        
        I think Aussie women have a sexy accent – some of them at least.
        
        0 0
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        August 30, 2024 8:07am
    - David Garrett
      
      pdm: I meant bassettbrash and Hide not KB, where I have been an approved commenter for donkey’s years.
      
      10 1
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      August 29, 2024 9:15am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        I’ve been commenting under my own name on KB since 2007, have met DPF once in Wellington and emailed KB – but all of my comments still are under moderation, as has been the case since the new rules went into place in 2019.
        
        Don’t really know what else to do but it pretty much destroys debate for me.
        
        14 2
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        August 29, 2024 9:33am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Tom Hunter
        
        Don’t really know what else to do
        
        Email DPF again requesting permission to post without moderation.
        
        Back when I was being plagued by trolls I emailed DPF a few times… usually I got prompt action…a couple of times I didn’t…. I just assumed he has an email reading list 100X larger than mine…. and stuff gets overlooked.
        
        6 1
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        August 29, 2024 9:58am
      - Ghost
        
        Maybe the answer is no and you should just live with being moderated
        
        3 3
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        August 29, 2024 4:13pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “but all of my comments still are under moderation…”
        
        It seems to be at the discretion of the moderators. If you post several thousand comments without having any moderated, the moderators might be incentived to not bother any longer. 😀
        
        2 1
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        August 29, 2024 8:21pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Test….
        
        And it’s working. 😀 😀
        
        I got an email from DPF just a day after I emailed him, so thank you DPF.
        
        0 1
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        August 30, 2024 6:07pm
    - pdm
      
      Ooops DG i just read your 9am comment again and realise now that you meant BBH
      
      Apologies.
      
      10 1
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      August 29, 2024 9:25am
      - Biscuit
        
        Tom H, I agree with Maggy – one short email and I’m sure DPF will make you a ‘goodie’.
        
        Hell, even I made the muster!
        
        7 1
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        August 29, 2024 10:37am
    - rouppe
      
      I emailed DPF, stated my case and heard absolutely nothing. This is about a year ago now
      
      4 0
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      August 29, 2024 3:51pm
      - Biscuit
        
        Hmmm,,,
        
        DPF is a tolerant soul – he even allows (at least) two Hawkes Bay residents past moderation as well as the odd Tennis player (but aren’t all Tennis folk old? Love means nothing to them, heh!)
        
        I’d suggest you try again…
        
        5 0
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        August 29, 2024 4:18pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  How can this country have a prosperous future with such idiocy from a major political party? The Treaty clearly states that Maori ceded sovereignty. ☹️☹️
  
  I recall when I arrived here I heard about the “Treaty”. Literally in my first week I thought I should take a look at this Treaty. I recall looking it up and thinking “That seems quite clear.” Little did I know. 😫
  
  Moreover Chris Hipkins is saying they Maori did not cede sovereignty but the “Crown is now sovereign”. Doesn’t that set a path for permanent conflict?
  
  Honestly it would be nice to burn all this to the ground and to start again.
  
  New Zealand became a full sovereign state in 1947. It is a pity that it did not take that opportunity to enact a modern constitution that set New Zealand up for the future. The Treaty could have been rescinded and replaced by something fit for purpose.
  
  Actually, I think it is regretful that New Zealand did not join the Australian federation in 1901.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:04am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “Actually, I think it is regretful that New Zealand did not join the Australian federation in 1901”
    
    NZ still can.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:07am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      In theory.
      
      9 2
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      August 29, 2024 9:20am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Agreed Ben. I think NZ as a separate state of Australia would be a much wealthier country now. I lived in Oz for 10 years during the 1980’s and thoroughly enjoyed it – had relatives (cousins) there, about the same age a me & my family & we fitted in very easily. It was a hard decision to come back home when we did in 1988. Family had a lot to do with it, plus NZ was going well & Oz was in a recession.
        I lived in Wollongong then, and in 1982 had an opportunity to join a business in Coff’s Harbour, which I turned down – if I had taken it up, I would still be there. With a few years of hindsight, it was a missed opportunity. Decisions, decisions.
        
        10 3
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        August 29, 2024 10:49am
      - sherp
        
        Yea one of the main reasons NZ didn’t join is because the Ausi federal system didn’t recognize aboriginal people as citizens… the treaty of waitangi meant that there was already a legal document in place that did recognize maori as having the same rights as British subject… eg voting for the leader of your soverign state insted of thinking your tribal leaders are you head representatives
        
        11 2
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        August 29, 2024 10:55am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        DB I’ve read that “The Gong” has a lot of “deros” there now. I get the impression Aus was a much different place in the 80s to what it is now.
        
        0 1
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        August 29, 2024 7:18pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Any constitution we create should offer Australian states the right to join New Zealand.
      
      Who knows, Tassie might take us up on the offer.
      
      3 3
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      August 29, 2024 10:41am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Who knows, Tassie might take us up on the offer.”
        
        Maybe 30 years ago. Tasmania is now the cool place to be. Going gangbusters.
        
        8 1
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        August 29, 2024 11:40am
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I’ve found Tassie to be way less of a nasty rat race than Melbourne. Mind you I’ve only holidayed in Tas.
        
        0 0
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        August 29, 2024 7:19pm
    - sherp
      
      Yea but we didn’t as we had the treaty that ensured indigenous people the same rights… ie voting rights as British subjects….so right there we have proof of sovereignty being ceded as why would you vote for a for a representative in a state if you don’t think that state had sovereignty.
      
      6 2
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      August 29, 2024 10:52am
    - Paulus
      
      Australia won’t have us !
      Any way they have over 400,000 New Zealanders living there as we are today.
      
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      August 29, 2024 10:54am
      - sherp
        
        Nope the invite to join the Australian Federal system is still open to NZ
        
        6 1
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        August 29, 2024 11:11am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Nope the invite to join the Australian Federal system is still open to NZ. ”
        
        That is just not right.
        
        Yes the constitution provides for New Zealand’s admission as a state. However section 121 describes the process for admitting new states.
        
        “The Parliament may admit to the Commonwealth or establish new States, and may upon such admission or establishment make or impose such terms and conditions, including the extent of representation in either House of the Parliament, as it thinks fit.”
        
        https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Senate/Practice_and_Procedure/Constitution/chapter6#:~:text=121.&text=The%20Parliament%20may%20admit%20to,Parliament%2C%20as%20it%20thinks%20fit.
        
        Yes New Zealand can ask to join as a state. However the Australian parliament can seemingly refuse. Happy to be corrected by the lawyers.
        
        It would not be in the interests of Australia to admit New Zealand as a state on the same basis as the existing states because Australia would become poorer. It would be like suddenly creating an additional state with the population of New South Wales with about 65 percent of its GDP per capita.
        
        On the other hand, if Australia admitted New Zealand with conditions that restricted access of New Zealanders to the benefits enjoyed by other Australians, what is the point in joining?
        
        1 1
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        August 29, 2024 6:04pm
    - A.Ziffel
      
      The path NZ is now on will lead to the Sth Island joining the Commonwealth.
      The Nth Island is destined to be the full & final treaty settlement – the Republic of Aoteoroa.
      
      16 3
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      August 29, 2024 11:56am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Sounds good to me. 😃
        
        3 1
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        August 29, 2024 6:08pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        I pray to whoever/whatever is in charge of the universe, please make it so.
        
        There needs to be a solution to the current mess so people can build lives with confidence. Currently NZ appears to be in the uncertain hands of lunatic woke judges.
        
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        August 29, 2024 7:21pm
  - RoboRob
    
    100% agree. We need a written, formal constitution. When Acts clarification of the treaty fails, they should pivot to a written constitution. This can supersede the treaty and make life better for Maori in NZ.
    
    10 1
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    August 29, 2024 9:15am
    - PeeJay
      
      Considering the proliferation of leftists and the Māori-centric view they increasingly hold to, at all levels of government and academia, do you honestly think NZ is now capable of developing a new, well written, balanced formal written constitution?
      
      It would be an unmitigated disaster!
      
      25 1
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      August 29, 2024 10:21am
      - RoboRob
        
        Fair call. I take my suggestion back 🙂
        
        7 1
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        August 29, 2024 12:01pm
      - Burtland
        
        Sir Geoffery Palmer may still be capable of cobbling something up – is Baron Cooke still around to tell us what it might mean ?
        
        6 1
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        August 29, 2024 3:37pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Baron Cooke of Thorndon died 18 years ago.
        
        3 0
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        August 29, 2024 6:21pm
    - Paulus
      
      Who says Maori wan a better life in New Zealand ?
      Does not suit their aspirations and the need for more financial support.
      
      4 4
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      August 29, 2024 10:55am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    There are loads of countries doing perfectly well without any clear and documented justification for sovereign power. As Lord Varys wisely said:
    
    “Power resides where men believe it resides”
    
    Not all iwi signed the treaty. For that matter, I never ceded sovereignty to the Crown either. Nobody should care about that. Certainly article one of the treaty sounds to me like an agreement to be governed by the Crown, but otherwise the point made by Hipkins is essentially correct. The Crown is sovereign based on constitutional tradition, history, and widespread societal acceptance, irrespective of what the treaty says.
    
    12 6
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    August 29, 2024 9:16am
    - kowtow
      
      “Power resides where men believe it resides”
      
      And therein lies the danger .
      
      There are many countries where armed and violent men believe it resides in themselves and that’s a recipe for disaster.
      
      And in a tiny way not being allowed to sell a beer because of “serious offense” is a tiny window into the real world consequences of the promotion of division in this country .
      
      It starts with a “ki ora” and can end with you losing your house ,( Canterbury people / Ngai Tahu resuming leases) next it could literally be civil war ,if the rhetoric of the likes of so called mainstream like Peni Henare are to be believed.( bugle /gun etc)
      
      8 3
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      August 29, 2024 9:30am
    - sherp
      
      Weird how people foted for a leader of a state bit never ceded sovereignty to that leader they elected to represent them…. hmmm
      
      5 2
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      August 29, 2024 11:14am
  - BananaLlama
    
    Federate New Zealand and let the regions decide which way they want to go Chris Hipkins can have all the poor broken parts like Wellington while rest of us get a divorce from his commie scum.
    
    7 2
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    August 29, 2024 9:19am
  - Surely Knott
    
    You are correct. It clearly states they ceded sovereignty. And it’s clear there are no principles in the document. They deliberately twist words, i mean they can even redefine woman, so I wouldn’t hold much hope that a different document would solve this problem. They need to simply hold firm and uphold the treaty – we are one nation with equal rights and duties.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:36am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Agree Benedict, apart from your last para.
    
    NZ would be just another couple of Tassies, derided & booted around like a political football.
    
    Stuff that.
    
    4 3
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    August 29, 2024 10:39am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You realise that Tasmania is now (much) richer than New Zealand?
      
      3 1
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      August 29, 2024 4:20pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Money ain’t everything
        
        1 0
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        August 29, 2024 6:51pm
      - Jake Dee
        
        GDP of New Zealand is ~ 242 B $USD.
        GDP of Tasmania is ~25 B $USD.
        In what sense is Tasmania now (much) richer than New Zealand?
        GDP/P is a measure of the wealth of a theoretical average person not of the nation or state.
        
        0 0
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        August 30, 2024 12:39am
- Biscuit
  
  Be nice to Chippie, Maggy.
  
  Remember he has to keep one eye behind him so he doesn’t suddenly get swamped, tsunami-style, by that momentum he claimed he as attracting the week before the last election!
  
  10 0
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  August 29, 2024 9:30am
  - pdm
    
    Biscuit shows again that the Upper Hutt people are definitely very loyal to their local electorate MP.
    
    6 0
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    August 29, 2024 10:01am
    - Biscuit
      
      ‘Loyal’ in the sense that, thus far, I haven’t assembled the peasantry to march down on Chez Chippie with supplies of tar and feathers…
      
      5 0
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      August 29, 2024 10:39am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Campaign Crafts Harris Policy Proposals Amid Her Silence.

https://patriotpowerednetwork.com/trump-campaign-crafts-harris-policy-proposals-amid-her-silence/?

“Kamala Harris has yet to tell voters what her policies are, so we thought we’d help them out. Kamala Harris wants to open the borders, raise taxes, and free criminals,” a Trump campaign national press secretary told the outlet regarding the website.

https://resistthemainstream.com/trump-trolls-harris-with-an-epic-bold-move/?

Kamala Harris is Weak, Failed, and Dangerously Liberal.
Trump campaign’s Kamala Policies:

https://www.kamala2024policies.com/
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August 29, 2024 8:47am
- imalwaysright
  
  That they pick Harris as candidate shows the disdain of the Dems towards the American people and the Presidency.
  
  14 5
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  August 29, 2024 9:32am
  - Gravelroad
    
    It is the winning the election that counts.
    Dems not too worried about who stands up the front.
    It is who is out the back running the clipper that is most important.
    
    10 1
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    August 29, 2024 10:01am
  - MCōs
    
    Do you have a say in who is PM of NZ?
    No you don’t.
    If the Nats are in power it’s up to to caucus, which you probably don’t have a say in either.
    If it’s Labour it’s confusing
    
    5 5
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    August 29, 2024 10:22am
    - imalwaysright
      
      ?
      
      3 3
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      August 29, 2024 10:50am
    - Paulus
      
      Normally in New Zealand Labour, it is the Unions who control the leadership decisions.
      
      5 1
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      August 29, 2024 10:58am
      - MCōs
        
        It depends what you mean by normal
        There seems to be a number of different normals depending on the circumstances
        If the leadership is contested the unions only have a 20% influence. Caucus 40% and membership 40%
        If it’s close to an election as Jacinda’s election was it’s decided by the caucus
        That’s the current constitution
        I think it was altered because previously the unions had too much say resulting in leaders not over popular with the caucus – or the public.
        
        3 0
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        August 29, 2024 1:17pm
    - cmm
      
      Do you realise the USA has a completely different system where they do vote for the president?
      Well on paper anyway.
      
      6 1
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      August 29, 2024 12:09pm
    - Conservatarian
      
      Yes, feel free to read about “Democratic Party Presidential Primaries”, a series of state elections run by the DNC in which they canvas the votes of party members. In 2024 the primaries finished on 8 June 2024, just 20 days before “The Debate”.
      
      The pledged delegates by candidate following primaries were Biden 3,905 out of 3,949 (44 other – 37 uncommitted, 4 Phillips, 3 Palmer).
      
      The delegates were based on 16,609,924 votes cast in the primaries, of which Biden received 14,465,519 (87.09%). This means 7 out of every 8 Democrat primary voters wanted their delegate to nominate this “Biden” chap on their behalf.
      
      A particular person called “Harris” did not feature as a candidate. This “Harris” received zero (0) votes and zero (0) delegates. Just like in the 2020 primaries.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries
      
      I believe the Republican Party equivalent had no such anomaly.
      
      5 1
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      August 29, 2024 3:09pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  I wish people would stop calling far left fascists and woketards “liberal” or “progressive”.
  
  They are neither.
  
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  August 29, 2024 7:25pm
kowtow

RNZ , taxpayer funded .

Is this Fake news , misinformation , disinformation , a lie , shit stirring against the govt , active promotion of division ?

‘Prime Minister Christopher Luxon reopened the can of worms when pressed during Question Time last week, saying he believed “Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown”.’

Oh come on , he didn’t reopen any can , he was responding to constant barracking by far leftist Swarbrick .

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/526451/sovereignty-debate-split-on-party-lines
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August 29, 2024 8:59am
- RoboRob
  
  National are just stupid with regards to TVNZ and RNZ. They need to sell both ASAP rather then trying to appease them. NZ has no need for tax payer funded media outlets, watched and listened to by well less then 50% of kiwis. The state should have no part in news generation, we hassle the Russians for their Prada outlet but have our very own here.
  
  Sell them off now.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:19am
  - pdm
    
    `Sell them off now.’
    
    Agreed RR.
    
    Why not throw in NZPost, Kiwibank and Kiwirail in the package.
    
    10 1
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    August 29, 2024 10:04am
    - Grunter
      
      + Landcorp, and any others…..
      
      5 1
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      August 29, 2024 10:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Since the demise of the bankrupt Newshub we have ceased to have anything to do with Stuff, until they get duly Stuffed, which cannot be far away since they employ at huge salaries those who destroyed News Hub.
    
    11 1
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    August 29, 2024 11:02am
    - RoboRob
      
      Welcome to the team. I have actively avoided viewing anything that would get stuff clicks. I think I am at one click in well over a year, and it was an accidental click of a link here that I didn’t realise was Stuff.
      
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      August 29, 2024 12:04pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Well it would be easy for the government to sell RNZ.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Who would buy it?
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:32am
    - Grunter
      
      Willie, JT & Tuku….they have lots of money!
      
      8 0
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      August 29, 2024 10:18am
      - Burtland
        
        thought they bought STUFF – it would be a monopoly
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:58am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Someone who could charge the listeners. Along the lines of “The Platform”.
      
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      August 29, 2024 4:21pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  No PM except for Hipkins has said before that Māori did not cede sovereignty, and that includes himself. Now he is an expert, and the way his detractors are starting to say things openly like O’Connor saying benefit sanctions are a good thing, and Parker openly spouting about taxes, I would say Hipkins will be gone very soon
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:42am
  - PurplePen
    
    What would be great is if Sepuloni or one from the Maori caucus became Labour leader.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:19am
Jethrod

It must be something in the Labour parties water that their leaders say funny things.
David Cunliffe said “I am sorry for being a man “, raising allsorts of questions about what it meant.
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August 29, 2024 9:00am
- RoboRob
  
  I think Labour are currently in desperation mode and taking a leaf from the Maori party play book. They are trying to say the most outrageous things.
  
  Unfortunately they are actually massively damaging to NZ. Claiming Maori didn’t cede sovereignty will just worsen race relations. Stating they will immediately block oil exploration next time they regain power sabotages any attempt by National / NZF to get prospectors back. Arguing against gas generation in an energy crises will just hurt NZers pockets and worsen damage to the climate from burning coal instead.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:24am
  - Don Beckett
    
    The current govt. could give an exploration company a 20 year contract for exploration, with prohibitively expensive cancellation clauses, which would eliminate the next Labor govt. cancelling the contract.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:57am
    - RoboRob
      
      Thats about the only option left for them, short of NZPetrogas inc.
      
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      August 29, 2024 12:06pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Hipkins can’t define what a woman is, just saying.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:42am
tknorriss

Nice to see a journalist doing some actual research and calling Ginny Anderson out on TV1 news last night.

Anderson blatantly used shonky data comparisons to claim that police patrols were decreasing rather than increasing. She compared December data (when police patrols always spike upwards) with June figures to make her claim.

However, the jouralist pointed out that figures had increased when compared with the same months from the previous year, and that, cumulatively police patrols had gone up by 10% for the year to date, all based on the figures from the police website.

Anderson continued to hold her line despite the fact it was completely obvious she was wrong.

In the end, the overall effect was a promotion for National, something that definitely would not have been Anderson’s goal.
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August 29, 2024 9:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now why has TV One suddenly exposed the crass stupidity of Ginny Andersen?
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:36am
  - Flossie
    
    Exactly Maggy. It’s not like they haven’t had multiple opportunities to call her out before.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:50am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And all the other bull-shitters that infested the halls of power during Jacinda Ardern’s reign of ~~terror~~ horror.
      
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      August 29, 2024 11:29am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Maybe Ginny’s not anointed by some Labour factions as the party’s next leader…
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:20am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Not so sure she was ever leader material, but possibly deputy? However lately she hasn’t done herself any favours, what with being caught out on TV One last night, and not so long ago having to apologise to Mark Mitchell on Newstalk ZB.
      
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      August 29, 2024 2:39pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Even after she was given dates comparing July with the previous July she simply said I disagree, even though now they have tabulated figures from the police, not the government, but the police, it’s time these slime are lanced like a filthy boil, Willis simply telling their finance spokesman you are misleading with the facts every question time, people are watching, and as the economy starts to improve Labour will be pushed further into the bog.
  
  Notice there has been no leaked internal poll for some time
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:46am
  - pdm
    
    G I do enjoy the way Willis deals to Edmonds every time the latter sticks her head up at Question Time.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:07am
- Ponderer
  
  It gives me great hope for the right in the next election that Ginny Anderson, Jan Tinetti and Duncan Webb are amongst the most capable on the left !
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:50am
  - Ghost
    
    My prediction, the next election will be close. Even closer if NZ first do not have Winston.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:56am
    - pdm
      
      I am not so sure Ghostie – especially if the Maori seats go back to Labour.
      
      If they do it is game over for the left for a term or two more I think.
      
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      August 29, 2024 10:09am
      - Ghost
        
        Here is an article worth reading
        
        https://newsroom.co.nz/2023/11/16/why-we-could-see-a-127-seat-parliament-at-the-next-election/
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:18am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        especially if the Maori seats go back to Labour.
        
        I can’t see that happening in the near future.
        
        There’s been a very strong movement away from the old power structures by politicised Maori.
        
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        August 29, 2024 11:32am
- Paulus
  
  I don’t think I have ever heard an ex Police Minister called a Liar openly and she still denied it even with proof.
  Sad really but that’s Labour currently.
  Her Uncle might even been ashamed of her, as I would assume whilst he was very left wing but not an open Liar.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:07am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

2016 to 2020 Trump did not unseal the JFK files as he said he would.
Why Did Pompeo Beg Trump Not to Unseal JFK Files? (begged)

https://feedsnorth.com/why-did-pompeo-beg-trump-not-to-unseal-jfk-files/

There is information about the then CIA that today’s CIA does not want made public.
So we are none the wiser.
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August 29, 2024 9:03am
- Phronesis
  
  You can’t change the past but you can decide who finds out the truth about it. The consequentialist argument is that any benefit from telling the truth will be outweighed by the harm done from telling the truth. Such arguments often fail to account for the true costs of not telling the truth. The people making the decisions are often also part of the system that must be protected by not telling the truth and therefore overestimate the importance of protecting trust in the State.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:47am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You just described a Democrat to the tee.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:14am
- Inandout
  
  SO, if the CIA were involved it would not surprise me but I suspect the real reason is that so many politicians were directly or indirectly involved the whole US system of government would come into question. This event happened so long ago in another time that opening documents now would serve little purpose, save causing a social media meltdown.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:54am
  - Paulus
    
    I still believe that the Mafia were ultimately responsible for the assassination of JFK.
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:09am
  - Jake Dee
    
    It would set a precedent. If the CIA files on such an important event can be released, then perhaps others can be too.
    What they did during the Vietnam war for example.
    
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    August 30, 2024 12:44am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Zuckerberg.
“In a shocking revelation, Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO of Meta, has pulled back the curtain on what many of us have suspected all along—the Biden-Harris administration has been deeply involved in pressuring social media giants to censor content that didn’t fit their narrative. This isn’t just speculation; it’s a confession straight from the mouth of one of the most powerful tech executives in the world.”

https://feedsnorth.com/breaking-biden-harris-exposed-zuckerbergs-explosive-censorship-admission/

I have had posts removed from Facebook, just for sharing them.
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August 29, 2024 9:07am
- kowtow
  
  Sucker Berg gave $400 mil + to the Biden campaign .
  The US administration later tried to break up his company and also we see this pressure and censorship.
  
  One wonders if this is the biglyest case of Buyer’s Remorse in modern history.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:21am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    He has stated he will be keeping his hands in his pocket, a Marxist Harris will see him lose several billion dollars
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:48am
    - cmm
      
      No he didn’t say he would not be contributing.
      
      He said he would not be making “similar contributions” in the future. “similar contributions” sounds like creating a legal loophole: how similar is similar?
      
      Is $200M “similar” to a previous $400M?
      
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      August 29, 2024 10:17am
      - imalwaysright
        
        It looks like he is saying they tricked me and threatened to beat me up if I told on them.
        His political value is also diminished by the success and influence of Musk, plus Zuckerberg has the same appeal of one Musks robots.
        But he probably is preparing a public perception defense to combat an upcoming exposé by a whistleblower.
        
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        August 29, 2024 10:44am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    The Zuck could gain a lot of credibility by doing an Elon Musk with Facebook and his other platforms.
    
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    August 29, 2024 7:28pm
- Grunter
  
  I wonder why Zuckerberg is coming clean now? Maybe he realises Trump is going to win and is coming after him? Self-preservation kicking in again….
  
  A cut & paste from the article…..
  
  “Zuckerberg’s admission comes at a time when we are just weeks away from another crucial election. And let’s not forget, Trump has already warned that if re-elected, he will go after those who engage in election fraud “at levels never seen before.” The stakes couldn’t be higher, and this time, we must stay vigilant to ensure that our voices are not silenced again.”
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:36am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    There will be many in the same boat as Zuckerberg, knowing they are on Trump’s short list of getting an arse kicking. For example, two Judges.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:17am
  - cmm
    
    I suspect he’s getting out in front of some info coming down the pipe.
    
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    August 29, 2024 10:19am
- Inandout
  
  SO, Zuck is smelling the breeze and he has opted for a Trump win. He knows if he spills the beans now it may protect him from any future Republican inquiry.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:59am
- NothingLeft
  
  It’s possible he is mellowing and seeing the dangers in the rise of woke authoritarian/fascist govt. His history suggests he is almost certainly a sociopath who only cares about his financial demense, but perhaps he sees that the way the woke neo-fascists are wreaking the global economy is likely to make him poorer, less free and more likely to be subject to the caprice of autocrats.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:36am
- NothingLeft
  
  A detailed explanation of what is behinds Zuckerbergs admission. They have been reliant on US govt to apply pressure to give them access to lots of international markets which are repressive in their demands for social media policing. And this bowing to US govt demands is likely quid quo pro for that (aside from being withing the left leaning sympathies of big tech culture).
  
  https://youtu.be/9ccvhmY6TFE
  
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  August 29, 2024 5:55pm
Im Right

Get the popcorn ready people….Tana at court this morning trying to stop the gangreens from holding a meeting this weekend that will vote as to whether the party using the ‘waka jumping law’ to kick her out of Parliament.
The audacity of the list MP, the sheer entitlement is strong in this one!
Can we assume that if she loses, gets kicked out of Parliament (the party seem to be heading towards a vote to use the law they campaigned against and indeed voted to repeal it) the maori victim card will be played by Tana?
Ohhhh the irony, the equal most racist party in parliament (The maori party probably #1 racist party) being accused of being racist to a maori woman is both delicious and hilarious all at the same time.
What say you Kiwibloggers, what are your predictions/forecast in this wonderful far left soap opera….
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August 29, 2024 9:15am
- imalwaysright
  
  “gangreens”
  Brilliant !
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:01am
- peterwn
  
  My guess is the Judge will decline to halt this weekend’s meeting but still give her the opportunity to take an injunction to stop her being booted out. She presumably took this action as she cannot get the numbers to avoid being booted out.
  Down the track there seems to be the Huata v Prebble precedent which the High Court (and the Court of Appeal) would have to follow so the High Courtwill most probably not agree to a permanent injunction.
  From Darleen’s point of view she would be after the cheapest option to get her way and that is to try and throw a spanner in the works of the party meeting. If she fails she would need to consider her options since appealing all the way, while it would allow her to stay in Parliament longer is going to cost big money especially if she loses. Similarly the Green Party leadership may choose to bow out at some point if it is going to cost the Party money. Even if the Green Party prevails it would only be able to recover a portion of its costs from Darleen.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I say your “gangreens” will be cowards and walk away with some pathetic excuse as to why they can’t use the waka jumping law.
  Darleen Tana will still be there come the 2026 Election – and collecting a shitload of money for doing nothing.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:24am
  - Flossie
    
    Oh well if it’s not her it’ll be some other person on their list who no doubt is as bad, if not worse.
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:45am
- Grunter
  
  It would be a big surprise if she wins in court this morning.
  
  So then we watch as these nut jobs tear each other apart. Already Leftards such as the Dunedin City Councilor – Laufiso (a self-proclaimed communist and rabid racist for all things Pacifica/Maori) has pulled the pin on the Greens because her friend Darleen has been bullied.
  
  The hypocrisy of these dripping-wet Greens is hilarious….! 🍿🍿
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:30am
- alex Masterley
  
  One of the things that has occured to me is how is Ms Tana funding the application.
  This sort of proceeding is very costly.
  Has she found some sort of money tree?
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:57am
  - Colville
    
    Given she (they/them/tho/whoeverthefuck) is a Green and from Waihick “she” probably has more than a few well heeled mates happy to have a crack at Chloe for being anti democratic.
    IIRC the Green party was rabidly anti the waka jumping law.
    
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    August 29, 2024 1:45pm
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    The child Walls said on ZB that Tana confirmed to him her legal letter from a few weeks ago was funded out of her Parliamentary allowance so presumably that means the taxpayer is on the hook for this as well.
    
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    August 29, 2024 9:45pm
- Paulus
  
  She will appeal the result whatever, and go to the so called Supreme Court in six months time.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:11am
- Warren Murray
  
  It’ll be a replay of when Act parted company with Awatere-Huata. Indeed, the # of similarities is almost spooky; each Party is applying jettison provisions in legislation it was opposed to; the recalcitrant MP is a Maori woman; the issue that was the catalyst for the ‘divorce’ was something personal (i.e. not a policy disagreement), each recalcitrant MP appears to be in financial distress and each party was in opposition.
  
  If I’m right and it’s just a replay; the Greens will ‘win’ but it’ll take time and it’ll be a pyrrhic victory.
  
  Tana could take it all the way to the Supreme Court, as that’s what happened with Awatere-Huata. Under the circumstances it’s the most logical thing for her to do; it’s not about ‘fairness’ or any of the other self-justifications that each side is claiming; for Tana it’s about money and surviving. For the Greens it’s also about money because their parliamentary funding and the tithes they extract from their MPs, which helps fund their party, has been cut.
  
  Where to from here? Well. Tana has nothing to lose (except legal costs) and everything to gain by stalling and frustrating the Greens. She needs the money (salary and expenses); end.of.story.
  
  If the Greens were capable of acting rationally they’d make her an offer she can’t refuse (i.e. pay her to resign). But it’s politics, so it’d be hard to do quietly and I don’t think the Greens are capable of acting rationally.
  
  But they should. In the aftermath of Act’s troubles with Awatere Huata, it was caned by voters at the following general election and lost seven seats.
  
  Each side is hemorrhaging $, but on the whole Tana wins every fortnight when she receives a payslip showing $7,400 (less tax). If the Greens could forecast how long this will play out they’d be able to estimate how much it’ll cost them in legals and damage to their brand as the next election draws closer.
  
  The next best option for the Greens is to ignore Tana and leave her where she is till 2026 because the game isn’t worth the candle.
  
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  August 29, 2024 2:48pm
  - John Loveridge
    
    If it’s just about money and survival then, in the national interest, I’m prepared to give Darleen a 90-day trial on minimum wage with my warehouse staff. It’s a small team and she’d have to actually work hard, but she could make something of herself.
    
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    August 29, 2024 7:55pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    It’s a good comment, particularly about the Awatere-Huata parallels, but Tana has plenty to lose by perusing this path. Every day she is burning political and social capital which in the longer term will cost her a lot more than her short tern parliamentary pay.
    
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    August 30, 2024 12:55am
Chuck Bird

Can you help us put this in newspapers around the Country?

https://www.act.org.nz/inthepaper
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August 29, 2024 9:26am
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  And now you’re expecting people to put in a bit of effort to find out how they can do you a favour?
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:42am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Me personally?
    
    2 5
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    August 29, 2024 10:36am
    - Ghost
      
      You posted the link and did your usual of not telling anyone what it was about
      
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      August 29, 2024 11:06am
- Ghost
  
  Pass
  
  Do people still read newspapers?
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:01am
- Yvette
  
  Related –
  “What Chris Hipkins will never be able to explain is, how does New Zealand work according to his framework of different groups with different basic rights?”
  https://www.act.org.nz/m_ori_didn_t_cede_sovereignty
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:11am
Chuck Bird

Kamala Harris Finally Agrees to Interview with Her “Emotional Support Governor” on CNN, with Knowles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlQzCoTorn8
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August 29, 2024 9:40am
- Inandout
  
  CB, will the ’emotional support person’ Kamala requests also be a qualified psychiatrist?
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  They can fact check each other’s lies and word salads!//
  The CNN interviewer will save the day by continuously changing the subject with even more patsy subjects.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:41am
Ghost

Poor gangs. Went from a protected species under Ardern to a hunted species

Police have arrested every patched member of the Christchurch chapter of the Comancheros in a massive blow to the international bikie gang’s reach into the South Island.

Article
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August 29, 2024 9:58am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Ginny Anderson will soon come out and say National are all talk and no action.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:03am
- peterwn
  
  And potentially boosted the Consolidated Fund by $1.9M if seized gang assets are forfeited as would be most likely.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:15am
- Grunter
  
  That’s a great start! Well done to the Police.
  
  Now, what about the other 5,000 gang members around the country?
  
  I read in the article…
  “The 18 arrested men would appear courts in Auckland in Christchurch, and faced charges including participating in an organised criminal group, conspiracy to supply methamphetamine, and conspiracy to supply cocaine.”
  
  Doesn’t that describe all the other gangs as well?
  
  Build a big, basic prison. Arrest them all. Lock them up and leave them there! Gang problem solved.
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:38am
  - Paulus
    
    Problem is that the gangs control all the prisons in New Zealand already so will just increase the current prison structures.
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:16am
    - NothingLeft
      
      Worked brilliantly in El Salvador. They locked up all their gang members and their murder rate is now lower than many western countries.
      
      https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fel-salvadors-homicide-rate-is-now-lower-than-the-usas-v0-h2bggg54obdc1.png%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D31873acebd302713815f51401a48c43af07f2756
      
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      August 29, 2024 11:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  to a hunted species
  
  I’ll believe it when I see similar happening to some of the Chapters of the Mongrel Mob
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:10am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Exactly, the cops must have extensive knowledge of the maori gangs. Unfortunately the maori gangs seem also to have extensive knowledge of the cops.
    Is this why they seem to coexist ?
    We pay one to eliminate the other, but it never seems to happen.
    
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    August 29, 2024 12:03pm
- kowtow
  
  There’s a huge difference between “arrest” and subsequent charges and conviction .
  And the real deal would be prison sentences that were meaningful.
  
  So I’ll take that “deal a massive blow” with a huge pile of salt.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:43am
- thirteenstars
  
  A months-long investigation resulting in many arrests of many bad guys. Good.
  
  The whole membership of a gang arrested using the significant powers the police have long had. It’s called getting off your arse and doing your job.
  
  All done without violating anyone’s rights such as banning gang insignia and trashing the right to assemble and associate.
  
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  August 29, 2024 12:00pm
- John Loveridge
  
  As a born-again South Islander I say fucking good job.
  
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  August 29, 2024 2:05pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I’m surprised Chippy didn’t say it was dirty politics by arresting a portion of the Labour voter base.
  
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  August 29, 2024 2:34pm
- cmm
  
  Big party tonight at Mongrel HQ celebrating the demise of their competition.
  I wonder whether the cops are invited?
  
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  August 29, 2024 2:44pm
  - Ghost
    
    They’re busy celebrating with councils
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350396267/patched-gang-members-shown-celebrating-maori-wards-vote-despite-ban-regalia
    
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    August 29, 2024 3:35pm
Bobba Fret

Ginny Anderson got her ass handed to her on TV One last night by Benedict Collins. She was quoting incorrect figures that police foot patrols down? Worth a look if you have time on the TVNZ website. Starts about 5:30 minutes in to the news.
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August 29, 2024 9:58am
- Jethrod
  
  Benedict Collins nearly had radiation burns from the look of disdain from said Ginny!
  
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  August 29, 2024 10:20am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    They were standing a long way apart!
    
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    August 29, 2024 11:17am
- Clyde
  
  The thing I don’t understand was why the “journalist” read “influencer” defied the TVNZ editorial line of not attacking Liemore. No doubt that the thoroughly nasty piece of work Anderson got dealt to, but the main question was “why”? Maybe the impartiality of TVNZ and RNZ is being called into question at a higher level? Strange, very strange.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:00am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  What’s going to happen if Labour come to a realization that their dependable comms arm is now stabbing them in the back…?
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:18am
- NothingLeft
  
  Ass=Donkey. I think as an urban (Hutt Valley) politician she is unlikely to own one.
  Arse=Gluteus Maximus. This is probably the one you meant.
  
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  August 29, 2024 5:59pm
- Scooter
  
  Good job, she seems like a thoroughly nasty person.
  
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  August 29, 2024 6:01pm
PurplePen

Reading today Ak elected representatives including the Mayor struggle to get information from AT and that AT ignores their requests or just doesn’t listen to them.

Ironic as that’s exactly the issue just about all ratepayers have when dealing with any council office and tell me any actual sitting Council that really listens to what the community wants over what the individual councillors want.
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August 29, 2024 9:59am
- Paulus
  
  Not actually true as it is the Council staff who are controlled by all their friends and lobby groups, and the staff with enormous salaries now, and the elected Councillor’s whitewash the decisions.
  Remember all Council staff are employed only by the CEO.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:20am
- sirknz
  
  Have you been following the totally not at all decided fortnightly rubbish collection BS they’re about to force on us in another attempt to force us to use the food scrap bins?
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:31am
oldpark

Have been following Wellingtons’ fiasco so called deal of dubious nature or intent of selling off land and a buy back in due course .Yes it was the crazy proposed Reading land deal in Wellingtonl City that went awry and out of control .An unanswered question has to be whose brainchild or un-named Councilor was behind the so called great idea in the beginning.
Seems the same un-named Councilor thinks selling Wellington Airport Shares is also a great idea .Would the alleged un-named Councilor please reveal themselves as there is a coming Council Election in 2025 .
Asking for many many common sense Wellington Ratepayers .
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August 29, 2024 10:10am
cmm

Do you still believe what you see?

AI generated dancer: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/HdZOAbKgfEM
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August 29, 2024 10:12am
Ghost

Greens agree not to go ahead with meeting on Sunday

Former Green Party MP Darleen Tana’s political career is alive – for now.

Tana yesterday sought an urgent injunction to prevent a special Green Party meeting on Sunday from deciding whether they would invoke the so-called waka-jumping law and throw them out of Parliament.

Article
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August 29, 2024 11:02am
- peterwn
  
  And how many air fares are down the gurgler with the last minute meeting cancellation.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:42am
  - cmm
    
    Taxpayer funded. Who cares?
    
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    August 29, 2024 12:17pm
    - peterwn
      
      MPs’ ones yes, for other delegates either the party pays or the individual pays (with the National Party non MP delegates pay for conference travel and costs out of their own pockets).
      
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      August 29, 2024 1:37pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  They should just have it over Zoom on the quiet next week.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:43am
- Beach Haven expat
  
  I’m struggling why the court even entertained this nonsense. Her injunction is about a meeting of members of a political party to discuss and debate an issue of their choosing and come to a consensus. The meeting itself will not trigger the Waka-jumping – that is a separate process that will be held at Parliament. They are just going to come to a position on whether the parliamentary party should carry out that action. If Tana has legal grounds that it is unfair for the Greens to use the legislation then that is the legal case, not whether some people can meet or not.
  So at the moment we have a Judge who is prepared to hear an application that could result in him ordering people not to exercise their right of assembly and their right to free speech and express their opinions. This meeting is not being held by a proscribed group and the subject is not one that would come close to conspiracy to break the law (I’m thinking, drawing a long bow, of a bunch of neo-Nazis meeting to bomb Government buildings in a revolution).
  However entertaining this is watching these Greens fight like rats in a sack, this is incredibly chilling. The court has absolutely no business even entertaining a request to legally bar members of the public from peacefully assembling to debate and exchange ideas. Rather than agreeing to a delay, the Greens should have found some backbone and told their barrister to submit to the judge he has no jurisdiction here and to toss the case. And if he didn’t toss it, tell the judge the meeting is going ahead and ‘we’ll be delighted if you send in the cops to break up this meeting live on TV’. Surely with their student politics, radical activist outlook, defending the right to meet without the state stopping them should be right up their cycleway.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:59pm
Grunter

Imagine announcing 122% annual sales growth, surpassing expectations by US$1.31 Billion, forecasting further massive growth……and your shares go down -2%

Nvidia (NVDA, Financial) reported impressive fiscal second-quarter results with a 122% year-over-year revenue increase to $30 billion, surpassing expectations by $1.31 billion. The company’s data center revenue reached a record $26.3 billion, up 16% from Q1 and 154% from the previous year. Nvidia’s Q3 outlook also exceeded expectations, forecasting $32.5 billion in revenue. Despite these strong results, Nvidia shares fell 2% in extended trading.
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August 29, 2024 11:04am
- mogg
  
  The predictions were already priced in, I think some traders were hoping for forecasts plus 10%.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:36am
O C Smith

Can the Greens ever be affective if part of a future Government. Slight deviation from their philosophy and they need to have full party consultation and some wacky member is off to the High Court seeking and induction. Meanwhile the invaders have taken over.
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August 29, 2024 11:08am
Ghost

Looks like he just wanted to be famous for killing someone

The gunman in the assassination attempt of former US President Donald Trump searched online for events of both Trump and President Joe Biden, repeatedly looked up information about explosives and saw the Pennsylvania campaign rally where he opened fire last month as a “target of opportunity”, a senior FBI official said.

Article
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August 29, 2024 11:09am
- cmm
  
  Doesn’t explain the 3 encrypted links to overseas.
  
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  August 29, 2024 12:19pm
  - Ghost
    
    Encryption is nothing special . In NZ his account was probably mega. I have several encrypted accounts with photos in them. My phone and ipad are encrypted. Encryption is nothing special.
    
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    August 29, 2024 6:13pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Interesting, just frustrated incel nihilism then.
  
  A growing problem for the world to contend with; the squeezing out of young men from hope for a productive and satisfying life playing by the ‘rules’. Historically this has given rise to revolution, though we have ‘male sedation’ via video games and porn that might avert that.
  
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  August 29, 2024 6:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Harris Team Asks If Her Mic Can Just Be Muted For The Whole Debate.

https://babylonbee.com/news/harris-team-asks-if-her-mic-can-just-be-muted-for-the-whole-debate?
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August 29, 2024 11:11am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump Plans to File Presidential Immunity Appeal Just 2 Days Before Scheduled Sentencing. Is Merchan thinking of stepping down?
A judge whose own daughter has close ties to Harris is the last person who should be presiding over it.

https://pjnewsletter.com/trump-judge-immunity-hush/?
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August 29, 2024 11:26am
Ghost

Warning this is a graphic video of a victim of catholic sexual abuse talking about DA Kamala Harris

Youtube

Some articles to go with it

Clergy Sex-Abuse Victim Cries Foul Over How Kamala Harris Treated Him Two Decades Ago

A Secrecy Fetish

Kamala Harris ‘Covered Up’ Church Sex Abuse and ‘Deep-Sixed’ Release of Evidence ID’ing Clergy Predators, Furious
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August 29, 2024 11:29am
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh FFS…

Fluid personal pronouns..

It’s Mrs Tama and her personal possessive pronoun is her

Tana had earlier indicated a preference for they/them pronouns.

Justice Moore sought clarity on this towards the end of the hearing.

“What is the applicant’s preferred pronoun for the purposes of consistency?”

“Mrs,” replied Green.

“That’s the honorific … so her?” asked the Judge.

“Yes.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/darleen-tana-waka-jumping-meeting-wont-go-ahead-after-parties-strike-deal-ahead-of-full-hearing/JL76AY7U7FCNBE5IQJLIW2R2QY/
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August 29, 2024 11:39am
- Flossie
  
  Right. Let’s all stop pandering to her. She’s obviously not MP material if she can’t even decide from one week to the next if she is She or They! What else has she flip flopped on?
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:50am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Not being an elected MP, she ceased being an MP the day she was dropped from the Green Party List.
    
    It is only Parliamentary Services, like most corrupt govt departments, who do not know how to maintain and enforce the integrity of Parliamnet and MMP.
    
    Brownlee should have instructed her to leave the house as she is no longer an MP.
    
    You and I have as much right to be in the house as an “independent list MP”, and that is is a big fat zero.
    
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    August 29, 2024 1:12pm
    - Ghost
      
      No, and it’s pointless explaining it to you, because you never listen. You keep stating false shit despite being shown many times that you are wrong. Unless she resigns or is waka jumped she is legally in the house as an mp. As were party list mp’s before her who remained in the house. Don’t blame the speaker or Parliamentary Services. It is up to the leader of the party to waka jump her, or for her to resign.
      
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      August 29, 2024 1:43pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        I listen, but not to bullshit or someone who does not understand the principles of our Parliamentary system. Are you a closet Marxist?
        
        Its no point explaining it to you, because you are unwilling to think it through.
        
        But for the sake of argument, I’ll indulge you, yet again.
        
        To be in Parliament, and remain in Parliament you have to be:
        
        [1] Either an elected constituency representative; Tana is not.
        
        Or
        
        [2] You have to be on a party list, and within the top numbers of the list that matches the number of seats the party has an entitlement for, less the number of elected MPs.
        
        Tana was removed from the Green Party list, she is no longer on the Green Party list.
        
        Which party is Tana now on the list for, that entitles her to legally remain in Parliament?
        
        One word Ghost, the name of which party? And who in that party did she displace on that party list?
        
        I’m listening…
        
        P.S. There are plenty of other forums and blogs where most people get the principle I am referring to. As plenty of other people have also raised it.
        
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        August 29, 2024 2:03pm
      - Ghost
        
        The law is the law, and you can put forward what ever your dream up, but she is legally there as an mp until she resigns or waka jumps and there is nothing the speaker can do until the greens decide to do that. She is an elected mp on the greens list and the ball is in the greens court to get rid of her, and only they can get rid of her.
        
        If Tana stayed in Parliament as an independent MP, it can be argued that this isn’t what voters wanted because it would reduce the number of Green MPs by one.
        
        For the waka-jumping law to be invoked, Tana has to cease to be a member of the Green Party.
        
        But that box isn’t ticked with Tana resigning from the party, which she has already done. The law requires one of two specific actions.
        
        The first is for Tana to write to Speaker Gerry Brownlee telling him she has resigned from the Green Party, or that she wishes to be recognised as either an independent MP or a member of another political party.
        
        The second is for either Swarbrick or co-leader Marama Davidson to write to Tana telling her that remaining in Parliament would distort its proportionality (as determined at the election).
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/explainer-darleen-tana-resigned-from-the-greens-will-she-be-kicked-out-parliament/XF3WVRRZWZB25NJA7VKY77JXBY/
        
        It’s you who doesn’t understand, is too stupid to comprehend the legislation and continue to spout bullshit
        
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        August 29, 2024 4:06pm
      - MCōs
        
        Mr Rabbit
        Your logic may be perfectly clear to you, but it’s not the way the system works
        Once an MP is elected to parliament either as a constituency MP or a list MP they’re stuck there like shit on a blanket until the next election
        However
        Section 55A of the Electoral Act 1993 means members of Parliament who choose to leave their party or are expelled from their party are also expelled from Parliament if the leader of the party under which they were elected issues appropriate notice to the Speaker that the MP should be expelled, with the seat becoming vacant.
        
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        August 29, 2024 4:57pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        “You keep stating false shit despite being shown many times that you are wrong. ”
        
        I usually reserve that kind of tone for absolute far left trolls who are just doing tedious poop-throwing drive-bys (you know who).
        
        Do you drink while posting? 😛
        
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        August 29, 2024 7:33pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Too much smart-alec game playing going on now by Ms Tana.
  She is disrespectful of her governance position and should go from parliament.
  
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  August 29, 2024 11:54am
  - Colville
    
    Na…..
    
    The longer there she is being a pain in dear Chloe’s arse the better.
    
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    August 29, 2024 1:49pm
- cmm
  
  I think it is awful that a judge now discriminates between a pronoun and an honourific.
  
  It’s all fantasy, so why can’t someone have Mrs as a pronou if they want?
  
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  August 29, 2024 12:22pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There is a difference between a noun (in this case the “title”/honorific – Mrs) and a pronoun…..and clearly the Judge recognised the difference.
    
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    August 29, 2024 1:34pm
    - cmm
      
      That ain’t right missus!
      
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      August 29, 2024 2:25pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        whateva!
        
        (My preferred pronoun)
        
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        August 29, 2024 3:34pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  What better demonstration of the problems inherent in the Law Commission’s proposal that misgendering should be criminalized.
  
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  August 29, 2024 1:18pm
  - Notsofast
    
    None better.
    Perfect.
    Get those submissions in with that exemplar.
    
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    August 29, 2024 2:57pm
- graham
  
  I wonder if Darleen Tana – and, for that matter, the Greens and all others who subscribe to the whole preferred pronoun palaver – have any idea just how daft she looks and what a nonsense she is showing this issue to be.
  
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  August 29, 2024 1:23pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Sheesh. Who’s dumber – Darleen or her lawyer?
  
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  August 29, 2024 8:07pm
- Beach Haven expat
  
  Her office (ie her) told Ryan Bridge she was happy with she/her or they/them. The they/them was clearly just a trolling good soundbite when she got asked that first question when she returned to Parliament and being alone. She just tied the Woke up in their own nonsense where they were scared about misgendering her. She’s a she. She says she’s a she.
  
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  August 29, 2024 9:48pm
Bridgenag

Serious question. ….. One of the Blokes at Bowls asked where he could go to get the true facts with regard to just about all the propaganda out there today. Also clear omissions by the MSM. Any advice?
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August 29, 2024 12:15pm
- cmm
  
  Advice: don’t even look for “true facts” because there is no source that is completely unbiased or has access to the truth.
  Rather just realise that you are being lied to all the time.
  
  The best is to construct your life so that you don’t depend on being told the truth.
  
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  August 29, 2024 12:27pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It was so much easier when we had our SINGLE SOURCE OF TRUTH every afternoon.
    
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    August 29, 2024 1:20pm
    - cmm
      
      Certainly. Listen then run it though an inversion filter and you’d be well informed.
      
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      August 29, 2024 2:23pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Maggy Wassilieff: “It was so much easier when we had our SINGLE SOURCE OF TRUTH every afternoon.”
      
      NZ’s time in pergatory!
      
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      August 29, 2024 7:36pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      I so miss that feeling of certainty, Maggy.
      
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      August 29, 2024 8:09pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Media bias chart. Pick your poison:
  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVXXpaWXwAAQfRF?format=jpg&name=small
  
  For NZ:
  https://mediabias.co.nz/
  
  I think interest.co.nz isn’t terrible for non-bullshit NZ news on more serious topics, left wing bias but tends to be mostly mild.
  
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  August 29, 2024 1:42pm
  - MCōs
    
    I saw another NZ chart that had Politik pretty much the only unbiased news outlet
    So who knows, or ultimately cares unless you think you’re the only one unaffected by media bias.
    
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    August 29, 2024 3:45pm
  - mandk
    
    I think there is sometimes a difference between the editorial stance of a medium and the views expressed by readers who comment.
    
    Stuff, for example, is editorially well to the left, but readers’ comments are often more to the right.
    
    Similarly, interest.co.nz seems to be pretty unbiased editorially (even though Chris Trotter is a regular columnist), but the readers’ comments are well to the left.
    
    I think a lot of interest.co.nz readers are Bernard Hickey devotees, although he left some time ago.
    
    I remember being at a meeting, where Hickey was MC, shortly after Ardern was anointed as PM. Hickey was giddy with excitement.
    
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    August 29, 2024 4:35pm
Jack5

The manuka honey saga ….

Did I miss this in NZ media: a California research project has found manuka honey may prove an option for treatment and prevention of breast cancer (first link below).

Meanwhile, a good elaboration of how NZ lost the trademark battle to stop Aussie from also producing and marketing manuka honey (manuka also grows in south-east Australia) is in the second link.

And third, for those who don’t subscribe to the NZ Herald, a link in which Comvita, a leading NZ honey producer, spells out its disappointing loss.

Manuka honey and cancer:

https://www.newsweek.com/cancer-natural-less-toxic-chemo-alternative-1942502

A view on why NZ lost the manuka honey trademark battle:

https://www.thetimes.com.au/world/23107-how-nz-s-own-law-helped-australia-win-the-manuka-honey-trademark-war

NZ honey producer Comvita reports big loss:

https://www.nzx.com/announcements/437063
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August 29, 2024 12:19pm
Damocles11

Go Winston Go!!!!!

Big news –

https://x.com/winstonpeters/status/1828938029144420566
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August 29, 2024 12:49pm
- Ghost
  
  Big news? Members bill to join the other 63. Go get support and make it a government bill
  
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  August 29, 2024 1:01pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So Mrs Tana and the Greens have come to an agreement…

So, what else is news?

I suspect there was an agreement many months back, too.
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August 29, 2024 1:37pm
rouppe

Looks like Hawkes Bay Regional Council is being run by Mongrel Mob sympathisers now

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/backlash-after-hawkes-bay-regional-council-posts-photos-of-gang-members-celebrating-maori-wards-vote/Y6RAJQXRT5C5NL7DMKDWU4Q7IM/
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August 29, 2024 1:41pm
- Inandout
  
  rou, the vote next year will have to be held. Mail in voting is going to be a problem.
  
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  August 29, 2024 2:28pm
  - rouppe
    
    Sure, but even assuming the vote goes “no”, it is another election cycle before it actually is removed.
    
    Unless I’ve misunderstood the process.
    
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    August 29, 2024 3:58pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      […], it is another election cycle before it actually is removed.
      
      Of course it is, rouppe. Think about it.
      
      At the next local elections, on 11 October 2025, Hawke’s Bay electors will be voting for 11 councillors for the 2025–2028 triennium, including two members in the two single-seat Māori constituencies.
      
      If Hawke’s Bay electors vote to remove the two Māori constituencies, then, obviously, those two constituencies will not be a part of representation arrangements for the 2028–2031 and 2031–2034 trienniums.
      
      Clearly, you cannot have a situation where two councillors are elected next year (for the 2025–2028 triennium), then immediately de-elected / removed if the electors simultaneously vote to disestablish the two constituencies in which they were elected.
      
      Not only would that be a democratic abomination, disrupting representation arrangements decided upon here, https://www.lgc.govt.nz/assets/Determinations-Representation-Reviews/Current-Determinations/2022-Current-Determinations/Hawkes-Bay-Regional-Council-Determination-2022.pdf, but it would totally disrupt people’s lives, not to mention the on-going work of the Council.
      
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      August 29, 2024 7:43pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        It would also, of course, result in the disenfranchisement of Māori-roll electors for the 2025–2028 triennium.
        
        Do you fancy witnessing the reaction of Māori to that?
        
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        August 29, 2024 8:00pm
Mod88

Found this while reading another blog site. I would be very interested on KB readers thoughts…

Tainui aren’t quite the muppets everyone thinks; realized the game was up with Labour and Mahuta was for the high jump, so came up with a plan to save their skins. It involved around 1000 of their members each donating $1499 (ahem) “anonymously” to the National party. In return Tama Pokarekare Ana becomes the MP for Hamilton West with a seat in the Cabinet in due course.

This was, of course, in no way a bribe (that only happens in Australia); merely lots of Tainui lifelong welfare beneficiaries, and cleaners at the casino, suddenly realizing they were closet Tories all these years.
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August 29, 2024 1:52pm
- Ghost
  
  Sounds like you’re reading bullshit on a left blog
  
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  August 29, 2024 4:11pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Further to my comment at 9.03am about Trump and the JFK files, Trump now vows to release the remaining files.
Electioneering or not the American public have a right to know if the CIA was responsible.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/other/trump-vows-to-release-remaining-documents-in-jfk-assassination-case/vi-AA1psDHZ?
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August 29, 2024 2:23pm
Steve Todd

Trump Has MOST PSYCHOTIC Morning Yet as LIFE COLLAPSES

“MeidasTouch host Ben Meiselas reports on Donald Trump’s most unhinged messages and behavior yet on Wednesday morning.”

See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a39yrQkpzw4 [16:48].

Take the time to watch this video. Trump’s messages are seen by untold millions of Americans. Surely, they can see he is disintegrating before their very eyes.

Yet, it is quite possible that 80M people will vote for him in the upcoming election. One can only hope that at least 85M people vote for Harris.

Roll on September 10.
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August 29, 2024 3:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  September 10th.
  You like comedy Steve? So do I LOL.
  
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  August 29, 2024 3:39pm
- Inandout
  
  ST, Kamala wins the word salad prize hands down.
  
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  August 29, 2024 4:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I want to see a word soup waffle debate between Jacinda Ardern and Kamala Harris – live on TV1 of course. Q & A platform with Jack Tame as moderator.
    Could be a good comedy show.
    
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    August 29, 2024 4:39pm
    - John Loveridge
      
      I can already see it as a Two Ronnies sketch. I’m just undecided about who would play who.
      
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      August 29, 2024 8:12pm
- Zero Kindness
  
  LOL
  Steve if you think re-posts (re-truths) on his own social media are “his messages being seen by untold millions”, then I think you have lost all sense of reality.
  The video is laughable at best!
  
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  August 29, 2024 4:16pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Millions of people are seeing these re-posted (by him, or ‘his people’, whatever) messages on his social media, i.e., under his name. They would therefore conclude that he approves of the content of these messages.
    
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    August 29, 2024 6:37pm
    - Zero Kindness
      
      Still, not HIS messages Steve. It is election year so there will be a lot of memes, get used to it.
      
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      August 30, 2024 7:59am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Hey, Zero, this proves you’re wrong. Check this out (put out within the last hour), from Anderson Cooper at CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EW1Aplps4k [9:04].
    
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    August 30, 2024 1:09am
Ghost

Awww, without the Ardern to protect the gangs have councils taken her place

What disgrace

The Hawke’s Bay Regional Council has come under criticism after patched gang members were shown inside council chambers despite a ban being in place on gang regalia in public.

Video was shot on Wednesday at a vote on whether to keep Māori wards and shows several Mongrel Mob members wearing their regalia.

The small group were filmed doing a haka after the vote had taken place.

Article
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August 29, 2024 3:25pm
- greybeard
  
  I suspect that Hawke’s Bay councillors are under constant threat from the local gangs.
  
  8 0
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  August 29, 2024 4:23pm
  - DimChappie
    
    Here is a link to the video of the meeting which approved the council’s Maori wards. The haka including mobsters follows the vote. What a place, every Maori speaks in an intimidating way and a few pakeha speak in support of their brown masters.
    https://www.facebook.com/HBRegionalCouncil/videos/1164937614802125
    
    6 0
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    August 29, 2024 5:01pm
  - kowtow
    
    Threat ?
    
    I get the impression that the ethno gangs have become a pseudo militia for the left .
    
    6 1
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    August 29, 2024 5:32pm
- Dougal10
  
  Did you cop the name of the mayor.
  
  2 0
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  August 29, 2024 4:51pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hinewai Ormsby
    
    https://www.hbrc.govt.nz/our-council/hbrc-councillors/
    
    4 0
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    August 29, 2024 6:32pm
    - H. Upmann
      
      Ormsby….now where have I heard that name before….?
      
      2 1
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      August 29, 2024 7:28pm
    - Colville
      
      she is 2ic.
      
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      August 29, 2024 7:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A warning from Tulsi Gabbard. Here is another ex-Democrat who wants Trump in the Whitehouse. Military Woman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r7e1GjNRZw
7 3
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August 29, 2024 3:29pm
- Inandout
  
  Tulsi is so correct and can see chaos if Trump loses to Kamala. I somehow think fate has already chosen the winner.
  
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  August 29, 2024 4:12pm
- MCōs
  
  I see Gabbard and Kennedy have suddenly springboarded into positions of influence in the Trump juggernaut after only recently becoming Republicans
  Thai politics is riddled with that sort of bald faced opportunism only the people recognize it for what it is
  
  2 9
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  August 29, 2024 4:23pm
  - kowtow
    
    Or UK Labour appointing donors to high office.
    
    That’s closer to home than Thailand and people do recognise it for what it is.
    
    2 1
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    August 29, 2024 5:30pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Kennedy and Gabbard are not Republicans, they are just not Democrats anymore.
    
    It is commendable that Trump is building a wide coalition bridging across a broad range of political viewpoints finding common cause in opposing the deep corruption and authoritarian/fascistic elitist rentier turn of the Democrats. I don’t see how that can be looked at as a bad thing.
    
    6 2
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    August 29, 2024 6:10pm
- cmm
  
  “Military Woman” meaning what?
  
  She has had various military roles including being a military police(wo)man, and working as a pretty high ranking officer in the Psychological Operations Command in unstable parts of the world.
  
  She probably has a very good understanding of how people can behave in stressed situations.
  
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  August 29, 2024 4:27pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Medical was her field I think.
    She was NEVER a jetfighter pilot, as the bullshit machine sometimes portray her.
    
    3 1
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    August 29, 2024 4:41pm
cmm

So one of Baby Ru’s possible murderers has been nailed for a raft of charges including theft of a cell phone, assault of a journalist, shoplifting etc etc…

All these seem to have priority over banging up someone for murder!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/baby-ru-person-of-interest-rosie-morunga-admits-assaulting-nzme-journalist/N2J3DWG7ENDLVM3H427L7PFPFY/
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August 29, 2024 4:21pm
- mandk
  
  Murder and by whom have yet to be established, but I don’t understand why the three persons of interest have not been charged with conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
  
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  August 29, 2024 4:41pm
Biscuit

No Ginny Andersen on One Ewes tonight to congratulate the police, under a competent National Minister of Police, arresting the Comancheros hierarchy in (largely) Christchurch?

Colour me surprised!

You’d almost think said Ginny is having trouble washing all that egg from her face after last night’s debacle with Benedict Colins!

Not a peep, either, from other recent useless Labour Government Ministers of Police – Stuart Nash, Poto Williams, some lowlife named Chris Hipkins. Stuart Nash again, Megan Woods (in an acting capacity) and the aforementioned statistically-challenged Ginny Andersen…
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August 29, 2024 6:32pm
- Ghost
  
  Nash and Poto are private citizens. Media won’t be interested even if they did comment
  
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  August 29, 2024 6:39pm
  - rouppe
    
    So is Helen Clark. Media are interested in her. Same with Jacinda Ardern. Peter Dunne. Several others…
    
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    August 29, 2024 8:12pm
Biscuit

Hush, Ghost, you’ll spoil my narrative!
4 1
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August 29, 2024 6:42pm

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