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June 17, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 17 June 2025

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cmm

I find these sorts of “victims” rather irksome.

A mother of a boy racing “victim” is still calling for harsher laws 12 years later.

Sorry sweetie, your daughter was not a victim. She was a participant.

Now don’t get me wrong. I detest boy racers and would like to see them all off our roads. But the passengers getting into these vehicles for the rush are part of the problem. They are not innocent bystanders.

Yes, throw the book at them, but doing so is not going to correct the stupid mistake your daughter made.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mother-of-boy-racing-victim-calls-for-harsher-laws-12-years-after-daughters-death-the-front-page/4KLT5RCJCNEC5KMO5453VGLIKQ/
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June 17, 2025 10:17am
- rouppe
  
  Agree. Same with the mother of the meth using drunk that climbed to the top of the floating crane and jumped off, killing himself.
  
  The message wasn’t “Don’t do meth”, it was “get rid of the crane”
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:10pm
  - Colville
    
    We should have a stall handing out free meth to anyone who will (a) sign “a do not resuscitate” order (for when things go tits up) and (b) gets sterilised that day.
    
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    June 17, 2025 3:28pm
Simon

National growth plan is crash interest rates and flood NZ with “skilled workers” from India

National are pathetic.
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June 17, 2025 10:21am
- John Loveridge
  
  Skilled at what? Driving Ubers? Dodging taxes?
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:55am
cmm

NZ has a housing crisis.
Surely we should be a bit more flexible to non-mainstream housing solutions?

Grey water systems should certainly be controlled so as to not contaminate waterways etc, but building consent processes really need to be simplified for situations like these.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/home-property/360724632/couple-wins-stoush-council-keep-tiny-home-twice
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June 17, 2025 10:21am
- nova
  
  In this case there was no building consent. The couple have been arguing that their tiny house is a vehicle, and don’t appear to have been successful in that respect. They have been successful in getting a judge to declare that the notice to fix doesn’t have enough detail in it, but the couple have only won the battle and not the war. Looking at the photos, their 36 m^2 tiny home doesn’t look much like a vehicle, and it does seem reasonable that tiny home owners should comply with wastewater rules.
  
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  June 17, 2025 10:36am
  - Dougal10
    
    Its only grey water and storm water which a can both be discharged to land , the council officers are out of line on this stuff.
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:18pm
    - Colville
      
      Grey water most certainly can not be discharged to land legally without an approved system.
      
      We do not have “grey water” systems in New Zealand houses. We have sewer. (wastewater)
      
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      June 17, 2025 3:31pm
  - cmm
    
    The law is an ass. The definition of “moveable” might not seem logical.
    
    The only thing that makes this a “building” is its greywater connection and they certainly should comply as necessary.
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:42pm
    - Colville
      
      are you taking the piss??
      
      That is a 12 meter long building that is sitting atop some token wheels. Its ON PILES!. The “trailer” has never been used on the road, dosent have brakes of lights, never been registered. I have no idea what kind of vehicle could tow that monstrosity would it weigh 3 or 4 tonnes?
      
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      June 17, 2025 3:41pm
- redeye
  
  This tiny house issue is making a lot of noise where I live. And it’s getting pretty loud.
  On one side we have young people that need to find 10 times their annual salary just for a deposit for somewhere to live.
  On the other we have councils. Whom we charge with planning our infastructure, maintaining the roads, sewerage, water etc. For that they obviously need to have some say in where people live.
  They are also responsible for dodgy builds. It was the councils (ratepayers) that got sued for the leaky homes disaster.
  Tiny homes do seem to be part of the answer. I don’t have the rest but it is a serious issue and needs to be properly addressed.
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:28pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  cmm: “NZ has a housing crisis. Surely we should be a bit more flexible to non-mainstream housing solutions?”
  
  Yeees. Not too long before RNZ went off the rails and I stopped listening (must have been pre 2018ish, I think) I recall listening to an interview with a guy in NZ trying to put a roof over his head with a “tiny house” in a rural area. The saga he had to go through was ridiculous. I’m not sure whether he actually got through the hoops in the end.
  
  Here’s an RNZ article from 2023 highlighting the same ongoing issues:
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/490294/tiny-homes-living-small-not-so-easy
  
  It’s almost as if govts from both sides can’t face the reality that there is a significant number of citizens who will never be able to afford a “respectable” normie house and do not want to be kicked from pillar to post in the (also unaffordable for them) rental market.
  
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  June 19, 2025 10:45pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  In fairness to lefty media, one thing they do get right (occasionally) is highlighting real social issues like this that have nothing to do with wokeness/ID politics. I wish they would do more of the former and none of the latter.
  
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  June 19, 2025 10:50pm
Ross Bayer

I have slipped into a dark place that reminds of the time we spent under the rule of a princess who became a tyrant. Where decisions were made not in the interests of the citizens of the country but for some other higher group. No consequences of course for her.
I used to think, for many years, that we lived in a world that operated under some kind of “rules-based society” where decisions were made on a rationale basis with consequences for bad decisions. I have now figured out this might be true for me but not the leaders of the free world and their buddies think, Cheney, Bush, Blair, Blinken, Nuland, and there are many others. This farce is simply an illusion created to keep the plebs under control
Last night I watched the dark Horse where Neil Oliver articulated this much more clearly than I could.
link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT0ny_q1Q2c

Then this morning I saw that the [Mod – use proper names] has been invited to the G7 and now the hole is much deeper.
link
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/zelensky-pushes-new-arms-package-discussion-trump-g7

That sign says it all Canada Welcomes the [Mod – use proper names]
So called leaders of the world are actively involved in War Crimes and a group of Neocons is trying the start WW3, probably what I should have said are continuing to work on project WW3.
These people have suffered no consequences for their warmongering and yet Lucy Connelly is in jail

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3v5926yeqro
Where is this leading , well it is dark place, maybe some exercise will help
Please those of you who are rejoicing at the actions of the Wests Rules Based Order (A complete Illusion) please take the time to learn about what is really going on in the world don’t take anything I say as being correct but educate yourself.
Some of the comments from yesterday would indicate that people are suffering under Plato’s allegory of the cave
On a brighter note Martin Kuldorf has been appointed to the CDC Vaccination panel

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/epidemiologist-who-was-fired-harvard-after-refusing-covid-shot-named-cdc-vaccine-panel

To finish there is a Great Robert Barnes Rant that will give you a broader understanding of the crisis that is unfolding in the middle east posted yesterday. About 10 mins in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMYLOrwLhII

Suffice to say it is different from what many of you believe
This is a lawyer who knows Trump and has worked for him. I would say this is compulsory viewing for anyone who thinks they hold a broad world view

This is a show of what shapes my view of the world and for those of you who take issue with any of the above constructs let us all know the sources that you rely on
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June 17, 2025 10:37am
NK

https://www.interest.co.nz/economy/133776/services-sector-activity-drops-sharply-and-slumps-levels-last-seen-june-2024-start

Back on track.

Except, it’s the wrong track.
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June 17, 2025 10:45am
- cmm
  
  GDP is a crap indicator as it reflects a whole lot of non-productive activities like government (and we know they are up massively).
  
  Other indicators are not necessarily pretty. Energy usage is down. Gas consumption is down.
  
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  June 17, 2025 10:54am
  - mandk
    
    Except that the story isn’t about GDP.
    
    It’s about the Performance of Services Index (PSI).
    
    And it doesn’t include government.
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:59pm
    - cmm
      
      The article does mention GDP: “Ironically, we anticipate this week’s Q1 GDP figures to show an increase of 0.7% for the quarter (data due on Thursday).”
      
      And therein lies what I was really talking about. GDP shows an increase while more realistic economic indicators are tanking.
      
      Even PSI is a non-so-good measure because many services are consumptive rather than productive.
      
      PMI (manufacturing) down too. That’s at least a real productive measure.
      
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      June 17, 2025 1:23pm
  - Jack5
    
    GDP per capita is a useful way of comparing wealth of citizens of different countries.
    
    Can someone suggest a better economic measuring unit than GDP — for general purposes?
    
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    June 17, 2025 1:19pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      GDP per capita.
      
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      June 17, 2025 1:27pm
    - Keith White
      
      The proportion of the adult population which contribute more than they cost, versus the reverse. Adult defined as over 18 and under 68. A half-century of paying your way or sitting on the couch.
      
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      June 17, 2025 3:09pm
    - NothingLeft
      
      GDP would be fine IF it excluded govt borrowing. Because any govt can create GDP growth just by ramping up borrowing – and given it is one of only metrics followed by public and media that is precisely what they do. Media + voters have stopped punishing them for deficit financing of bloated public sector – they no longer bat an eyelid, probably because it ahs been so rampant for so long.
      
      But the lenders are starting to signal that they no longer believe the big highly indebted economies are ever going to pay it back, and so borrowing costs are skyrocketing.
      
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      June 17, 2025 4:16pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      The problem isn’t with GDP as such, the problem is with using any single statistical measure.
      Are you familiar with “Goodhart’s Law”?
      it states that when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart's_law
      That’s because once that specific number is the target the measurements are consciously or unconsciously goosed in that direction.
      Use a range of independent measurements, GDP + Purchasing Power Parity + electricity prices + life expectancy for example.
      
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      June 17, 2025 5:11pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Services boomed either side of Christmas, but has slowed a bit. Exports are absolutely booming, even building apparently has started to pick up a little, what would you have the government? Hand billions to service industry’s or what? Let’s not forget why services are in a slow down, Labours sky high inflation leading to prices out of some people’s reach, coupled with families paying huge interest costs that are starting to fall, and the killer is the rapid minimum wage that has forced prices up, at the time labour said that don’t make a scrap of difference, yet they have seen staff lose hours, and also helping force up pricing, and in many cases leading to closure.
  
  Anything this government does is a different track from the Marxist hit job in business and workers.
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:09am
  - pdm
    
    `Anything this government does is a different track from the Marxist hit job in business and workers.’
    
    Not everything is on a different track G.
    
    Debt continues to rise at a rapid rate and shows no sign of hitting a ceiling.
    
    Has the NZTU Debt Clock not been to Mosgiel and Dunedin yet?
    
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    June 17, 2025 1:36pm
Chuck Bird

Foreign Minister Winston Peters speaks amid the Israel/Iran conflict

Gaza had a two state solution from 2005 till 7 Oct 2023

“New Zealand is a long-standing supporter of the two-state solution. Ministers Smotrich and Ben-Gvir have severely and deliberately undermined that by personally advocating for the annexation of Palestinian land and the expansion of illegal settlements, while inciting violence and forced displacement,” he said.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/foreign-minister-winston-peters-speaks-amid-the-israeliran-conflict/OVVVVCLY7MXD3IUJHXW2GUUNZI/
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June 17, 2025 10:50am
- RoboRob
  
  This is a very strange position for NZ to take. I am surprised that someone with Winstons experience would take this stance publicly. I continue to assume he is representing government policy and likely not what he would personally want to do.
  
  Regardless of your stance on what is happening in the middle east, what is the best course of action for NZ to take? What should we do that best serves our country?
  
  I would argue that staying out of the situation and making the least public statements would be the best option for NZ. Fence sitting. This is a strategy the National government has shown great skill at.
  
  Taking an anti Isreal stance puts us off side with the USA. Taking a pro Isreal stance puts us off side with the UN, Europe and various middle eastern countries. Both of these options do nothing to help or hinder either side, they just hurt NZ. Why take a stance?
  
  Some might argue that NZ needs to take a moral stance. That’s all good for your feelz if you happen to agree with the position the government chooses to take but not so much if you don’t. Again, the cost to NZ is high, for simply wanting to virtue signal.
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:03am
  - Jake Dee
    
    Winston Peters is the Foreign Minister of New Zealand, that means he’s our chief diplomat.
    One of the main tasks of diplomacy is to tell pleasing stories.
    There is very little chance of NZ gaining anything and a very large chance of NZ losing a lot by taking a strong position on the Middle East’s wars.
    Do you want a moral stance?
    Looking after your own people IS the moral stance.
    
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    June 17, 2025 5:41pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Yet when Luxon mentions 2 state the usual suspects on here go feral.
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:14am
  - RoboRob
    
    Thats because a two state solution is essentially fence sitting on the issue, something Luxon is an expert on. EVERBODY that uses that term is essentially saying, ‘I dont have a solution and dont want to pick a side’. Thats true when 90%+ of the UN leaders say it, not just Luxon.
    
    You will note my post above where I suggest that fence sitting on this stuff might be the best political move for NZ. That doesn’t mean I think the ‘solution’ to the issue in the middle east is a ‘two state solution’. Both can be true at the same time. I don’t want NZ involved in middle east politics AND I think a ‘two state solution’ is not a feasible solution at present.
    
    As Chuck pointed out, there was a two state solution in place for almost 20 years. During that time the nation of Palestine launched bombs into their neighbouring state every few years, followed by a response from Isreal. Palestine moved it to the next level with an unprovoked invasion, at which point Isreal has determined the two state solution could no longer control.
    
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    June 17, 2025 11:53am
    - rockape
      
      Maybe when Iran has a regime change and stops sponsoring and encouraging terrorism then a two state system will work. While Hamas does the dirty work for Iran, there is no hope for peace.
      
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      June 17, 2025 5:00pm
      - Ra Henare
        
        Maybe that other major supporter of terrorism could do the same??
        Oops. It just has had a regime change, but continues its sponsoring and encouraging terrorism.
        
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        June 17, 2025 5:39pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      There was never a 2 state solution in place.
      Work out what your definition of a “a State” is first and then check out how it matches to other entities around the world called states.
      Then go back to the middle east and see how well that matches up with Gaza or the West Bank over the last 20 years.
      Those territories were not even semi-autonomous. They were both under varying levels of military occupation by Israel.
      There have been interesting comments recently in the context of the USA and UK saying “if you can’t control your borders then you don’t have a country”.
      Gaza never controlled its borders, they were always controlled (under penalty of death) by Israel.
      
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      June 17, 2025 5:29pm
  - vand
    
    yet when Luxon mentions 2 state the usual suspects on here go feral.?
    
    Well the 2 state solution was set up in 1947 and what happened G?
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:08pm
  - kiwimike
    
    G
    The 2 state solution was tried in 1922 when GB gave away over 70% of the Palestine Mandate to the Hashermites for Trade favours.
    
    How’s it been looking for GB since then ?
    
    I’d advice weak woke Luxon and co to stay away from attacking Israel.
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:17pm
  - cmm
    
    People with any sense go feral if anyone mentions a 2 state solution – be they Luxon, Cindy, Helen Clarke, Peters or the Pope.
    
    It’s as dumb as wishing for world peace.
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:35pm
- cmm
  
  Yes I love Pink Unicorns too. I am in favour of everyone having Pink Unicorns. The world would be so much nicer if everyone had pink unicorns and rode them to work. In fact why even work? Pink Unicorns are so nice and gentle that’s all we should do – just ride around on them all day long.
  
  FFS Peters – be real. Supporting something that is not going to fly is completely bloody pointless. It certainly is not “leadership”.
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:23am
  - Keith White
    
    I would counsel against playing leapfrog with your pet unicorn, pink or other-hued. Just in case.
    
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    June 17, 2025 3:11pm
- cmm
  
  “Gaza had a two state solution from 2005 till 7 Oct 2023”
  
  Well that is true – depending on whether you think it really solved anything.
  
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  June 17, 2025 1:25pm
- Handyman
  
  The two state solution is usually a very short discussion, once you mkae it clear one of the states is Israel.
  People prattle on about statehood for Palestine but mumble when asked to support statehood for Israel.
  
  Iran would rather get bombed back to the stone age than recognise Israel’s right to exist. Well, FAFO Iran.
  
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  June 17, 2025 3:59pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Seems not unlikely now that the Mad Mullahs will lose power in Iran. May the Iranians finally be released from the yoke of the evil theocrats!
  
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  June 17, 2025 4:18pm
Don Beckett

GD today is very benign. Maybe everyone is making preparations to celebrate matariki on Friday. // 😆
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June 17, 2025 11:21am
- Ghost
  
  Lot of internet outages in the North Island this morning
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:55am
  - kowtow
    
    Blumin’ Oz navy going home?
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:45pm
mogg

According to the Telegraph,
Iran has approached Trump to negotiate a ceasefire with Israel, he has reminded them that they ignored his 60 day opportunity to negotiate. The Mullahs are on the run, maybe they have changed their minds about being martyrs for Allah. This could be an indication that they are losing their control over the Iranian population.
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June 17, 2025 11:22am
- RoboRob
  
  I hope this is true. A change of leaderhip in Iran could make the middle east (and world) a much safer place.
  
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  June 17, 2025 11:55am
  - cmm
    
    It could potentially be, but be careful what you wish for – you might get what you ask for.
    
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    June 17, 2025 12:37pm
  - mogg
    
    It would mean absolute victory for Netenyahu,
    TV one & TV three will be disappointed.
    
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    June 17, 2025 1:09pm
- kowtow
  
  The Mad Mullah’s are totally at the mercy of Netanyahu via his air force.
  
  The IAF are even taking out the old US fighter jets left behind from the Shah era.
  
  Israel should keep going until the Mullahs publicly acknowledge Israel’s absolute right to exist .And give up their support for nuke weapons and supporting terrorism across the ME .( Hez , Houthi, Hamas etc)
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:55pm
  - mogg
    
    They can’t, it would mean 20 years of suffering for the Iranian population has come to nothing.
    
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    June 17, 2025 1:13pm
- Paulus
  
  Am told that according to programme Flight24 Tehran closed the Airport, but as can be seen on this free live programme, a large number of large aircraft have been taking off.
  VIPs running ?
  
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  June 17, 2025 2:19pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Apparently the IDF have warned Tehran civilians to evacuate the city – hundreds of thousands fleeing to the country. No doubt the mullahs are heading for the hills as well. Tehran is a city of around 9.8 million.
    Has anything happened yet?
    
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    June 17, 2025 2:54pm
Southern Raider

So two tier Starma reluctantly kicks off an independent review about Muslim grooming gangs. However the resulting report is the complete opposite of what he wanted.

Rather than state there is no wide spread issue in the UK the report highlights that in fact there is a distinct and wide spread issue of older men who are exclusively Pakistani Muslim and who preyed exclusively on young white women/girls.
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June 17, 2025 11:44am
- mandk
  
  Let’s not call them grooming gangs.
  
  They are child rape gangs.
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:54pm
- kowtow
  
  And Bangladeshi.
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:56pm
  - Paulus
    
    And Muslims !~
    
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    June 17, 2025 2:20pm
cas

As part of her promotion of her book ( for which she says she was bracing herself for all the book tours, media appearances etc – yeah right), she says in an interview with the Australian womens weekly that if she wrote about Cabinet and the decisions, “it may seem either like an attempt to write my own version of events or may risk sounding defensive, which I didn’t want to be or fell the need to be”. ‘

I think the last part of that quote says it all. No regrets no retrospection of what she did to the country.

And Clarke says they come back for summers.
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June 17, 2025 11:49am
- kiwimike
  
  one of the families or businesses she abused will get to her.
  egg on her face..
  I can’t wait, but Robertson and Hipkins and Dr Ashley needs to be included….
  
  Nuremberg ??
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:19pm
  - Keith White
    
    Seems more likely than not that anyone who tried to throw an egg at her – or a dildo, as was done to another politician in recent years – would end up dead. Seeing on TV the protection she is surrounded with when she is out and about overseas leads one to understand how quickly that would happen.
    
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    June 17, 2025 3:15pm
Allan

For the secure future of the region the only way that this conflict can end is by the eradication of the Mullahs and a regime change in Iran. 46 years of rule by the despotic regime of the Mullahs has destroyed what once was a prosperous society and country and they need to be despatched forthwith.
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June 17, 2025 11:56am
- Ross Bayer
  
  I guess living in a bubble will make feel like this. Maybe if you accessed some of the podcasts i have linked above you may consider the world in a different light but probably not .
  A washed brain can be difficult to fix
  
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  June 17, 2025 2:01pm
- Paulus
  
  But the Mullahs control the people with guns, torture, and physical violence particularly against women.
  
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  June 17, 2025 2:23pm
Jack5

Move over Red Radio and TVNZ: Kiwiblog’s coming through …

For the first time, social media have displaced television as the top way Americans get news.

That’s reported in Oxford’s Reuters Institute for the Study of Journalism (RISJ) in its 2025 Digital News Report, which I’m informed about at the Nieman Journalism Lab web site.

The institute has issued a news release every year since 2012. This year it surveyed nearly 100,000 people in 48 countries.

Nieman Lab says:

“The proportion accessing news via social media and video networks in the United States (54%) is sharply up,” the report’s authors write, “overtaking both TV news (50%) and news websites/apps (48%) for the first time.”

Changes are happening faster in the United States. There, between 2021 and 2025, the share of population consuming news video at least weekly increased from 55% to 72%, with most of the news video being viewed on social platforms.

The research found striking differences between age groups.

“Younger groups, especially those aged 18-24, are much more likely than older ones to prefer watching — or listening to — the news.”

https://www.niemanlab.org/2025/06/for-the-first-time-social-media-overtakes-tv-as-americans-top-news-source/
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June 17, 2025 11:58am
Ghost

Perhaps they need to take a course in how to behave in parliament, the Māori party could join them

Minister for Regulation, David Seymour, has denied regulatory reviews carried out by the ministry have been for anyone’s political benefit, in a tense select committee hearing at Parliament in which two Labour MPs had to apologise for swearing.

Article
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June 17, 2025 12:05pm
- mike
  
  Well, duh, of course work directed by the government is for oolitical benefit. Why else do it?
  
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  June 17, 2025 12:59pm
  - Ghost
    
    Well duh, pretty obvious this is about the labour mp’s who can’t control their mouth.
    
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    June 17, 2025 1:04pm
Inandout

At times most of us have wondered at the plausibility of a bridge over the Cook Strait. Well here is a brief look at what would be involved and the possible cost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Vp_70T9Sk
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June 17, 2025 12:19pm
cmm

If you book a flight on Air NZ, you get offered a bunch of options for upgrades – at a premium of course!

Given recent events, I wonder how long it is before they offer seat 11A for an extra $100?
11 3
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June 17, 2025 12:31pm
- rouppe
  
  It would already be an extra legroom, or “preferred” seat being at the front of the section.
  
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  June 17, 2025 1:31pm
- MCōs
  
  Only a particularly stupid person would pay extra money for a seat on the assumption the plane would crash.
  
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  June 17, 2025 4:50pm
Jack5

Remains of Captain Cook’s HMS Endeavour found in Newport Habor, Rhode Island have now been convincingly identified.

The Telegraph says the Endeavour was sold and renamed the Lord Sandwich in 1775 and was sunk off the American coast in 1778, during the American War of Independence.

The Australian National Maritime Museum announced the finding in a new report, ending 25 years of study.

Experts compared the wreck with historical plans of Cook’s ship, and discovered timbers in the same location as the Endeavour’s main and fore masts.

Measurements aligned with those taken during a 1768 survey of the Endeavour, while analysis of the wood correlated with records of the vessel having been repaired in 1776.

Given vandalism of Cook memorials in NZ by racists, it will be interesting to see what attention the identification gets in our mainstream media.

Final report on the Endeavour wreck:

https://www.sea.museum/en/maritime-archaeology/endeavour-report
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June 17, 2025 12:31pm
- cmm
  
  One thing that is astounding is how much organic material gets preserved on shipwrecks.
  
  Some friends of my parents extracted parts of the remains of the Sao Bento, a Portugese ship that wrecked off the South African wind coast in 1554. This place is really deserving of the name “Wild Coast” and you’re lucky if you can dive there one day a week. Almost 450 years later they found pepper corns and small bones etc where they were able to see the marks left by rats gnawing.
  
  In the 1980s I dived a lot around Cape Town. One of my favourite wrecks to explore wrecked in the 1600s. There were still pine needles from packing material.
  
  If there is mud then even more gets preserved.
  
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  June 17, 2025 2:54pm
  - MCōs
    
    Many years ago myself and another chap surveyed some old wharf piles. The only section that had decayed was between high and low tide marks.
    
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    June 17, 2025 4:59pm
mike

Grey St bike rack report.
12.15 pm 2 – 29 bikes.
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June 17, 2025 12:31pm
- rouppe
  
  Which is it? 2 bikes or 29? Somewhere in between? That is such an odd report and doesn’t actually provide any useful information
  
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  June 17, 2025 1:28pm
  - mandk
    
    I think Mike means minus 27 bikes.
    
    Someone must have nicked them. Or maybe WCC Parking Services had them towed.
    
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    June 17, 2025 1:54pm
- Conservatarian
  
  Police must have stationed a booze bus outside the Ministry of [whatever] on Friday night and a number of public servants were DIC’ed.
  
  This can be the only explanation for “2 – 29 bikes”
  
  4 0
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  June 17, 2025 2:17pm
Taieri

A moral question…

Should the Government charge GST on the life saving medical treatment costs it does not fund?

A Wellington woman is being charged over $100K for a drug treatment for her stage 3 breast cancer:

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/im-fundraising-cover-tax-cancer-patient-questions-gst-drugs
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June 17, 2025 12:31pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  GST should be charged but it should be a tax deductible expense.
  
  6 1
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  June 17, 2025 1:15pm
  - cmm
    
    Many places allow medical expenses to be tax deductible.
    
    When we lived in South Africa and had to pay for the delivery of our first child all that was tax deductible.
    
    But the real questions here is:
    * What is the principle? What expenses should be tax deductible?
    
    If we say people should be able to deduct medical expenses, then why not other expenses such as education, transport, …? What makes medical expenses special? Should medical insurance be tax deductable?
    
    Some might say that if you pay your own medical expenses then you have saved the taxpayer money and therefore should be compensated.
    
    OK then. People that homeschool save the taxpayer money. Should homeschoolers be able to deduct all their homeschooling expenses?
    
    It’s a very slippery slope on which to find a set of principles that are logical and that people will accept as “fair”.
    
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    June 17, 2025 2:37pm
- rouppe
  
  Is called a goods and service tax.
  
  She’s receiving both a good and a service. As soon as you exclude gst from one thing, there’ll be a flood of waddaboutism from all the usual suspects.
  
  If she had medical insurancethat covered the medication would that company pay gst on the medication? Would she pay gst on the premium? If you use the argument of “this drug is saving my life” then everyone on insulin would expect the same. Everyone with diabetes would want the stomach stapling gst free. Do people who opt for euthanasia pay gst? Then it’s all medicines. Then it’s fresh food again. And on and on.
  
  It would be never ending.
  
  Is it hard on her and her family? Yes. Lots of things are hard.
  
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  June 17, 2025 1:23pm
rouppe

An analysis of welfare you will never read in a NZ newspaper.

Hawke at least deserves credit for recognising that the goal of welfare policy should be to reduce poverty, not merely to service it by handing out cash.

The noble causes espoused by welfare organisations are prone to corruption through rent-seeking.

The iron law of government programs is the first and sometimes only beneficiaries are the people who administer them.
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June 17, 2025 1:09pm
- mandk
  
  Two other quotes from that article are noteworthy:
  
  “The true measure of a fair society is not how much money is distributed but whether it is effective.”
  – Socialists generally focus on the Distribution bit and ignore the Effectiveness bit (are you listening Andrew Little?)
  
  “The instinct for generosity must be balanced against the perverse economic incentives welfare payments create.”
  – This describes Conservatives (e.g. Bill English).
  
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  June 17, 2025 1:49pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    And another:
    
    “Mark Latham was one the few Labor leaders to acknowledge that the best form of welfare is a job”
    
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    June 17, 2025 6:31pm
- NothingLeft
  
  welfare only works if there is a concomitant requirement for good/virtuous and self-improving behavior in return. It works in families and small communities where people monitor recipients for their good efforts. But it destroys people who don’t have that demand placed upon them.
  
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  June 17, 2025 4:29pm
rouppe

Yet another Australian analysis that can be directly applied to nz.

Australia needs to take a pickaxe to net overseas migration to save us from the deepening housing crisis, rising homelessness and a strained health service that is pummelling the UK
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June 17, 2025 1:12pm
Chuck Bird

I wonder if the US would supply the big bunker buster bombs to Israel. They could be delivered by a B52 bomber as well as the B2 bomber. Israel should be able to afford a B52
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June 17, 2025 1:16pm
- Jack5
  
  Apparently they can’t squeeze the latest bunker buster into a B52 bomber’s bay: the 30,000-pound GBU-57/B Massive Ordnance Penetrator. It is dropped by a B-2 Spirit stealth bomber. Over-all, the B-2 production cost about $US2 billion per plane.
  
  The weight of the bunker buster is: 30,000lb, or 13.6 metric tons.
  
  You can watch a video clip of a B-2 launching one of these bunker busters:
  
  https://alert5.com/2019/05/17/usaf-has-just-release-a-video-of-b-2-dropping-the-gbu-57a-b-massive-ordnance-penetrator/
  
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  June 17, 2025 1:33pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    With a payload capacity of 75,000 lbs, the B-1 Lancer certainly has the capability to carry bombs of this weight – although perhaps there are other limiting factors why the Lancer isn’t used.
    
    It seems that the B-2 Spirit is the only aircraft that can currently carry the MOP (although it was tested using the B-52 Superfortress – suggesting that the bomber has the capability and heft to carry it). Perhaps it is only carried by the B-2 because both the B-1 Lancer and B-52 Superfortress would struggle to survive in a contested air environment (and contested air environments are where the bomb is likely be needed).
    
    US aircraft able to carry MOP:
    It appears to be possible for the B-52 Stratofortress to carry a 30,000 lb bunker buster bomb. The B-2 Spirit can carry of those bombs. The Israelis are very good at adapting.
    
    B-2 Spirit: Currently considered the only delivery platform
    Rockwell B-1 Lancer and B-52 Stratofortress: Possible
    Northrop Grumman B-21 Raider: Planned
    
    https://simpleflying.com/what-aircraft-carry-us-air-force-30000-pound-massive-ordnance-penetrator/
    
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    June 17, 2025 2:32pm
    - mogg
      
      Apparently they don’t need bunker bombs to destroy the nuclear centrifuges, when the power supply on the surface is destroyed they degrade themselves.
      
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      June 17, 2025 3:05pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      Lets play connect the dots
      Israels bombing has opened up the external structures at multiple Nuclear Sites
      There has been 5 B2 Bombers based at Diego Garcia for almost a month
      This morning 30 aerial refueling Tankers took to the air and started repositioning towards the Middle East
      Trump has just left the G7 to return to Washington
      
      Tick tock tick tock
      
      3 2
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      June 17, 2025 3:31pm
      - Ghost
        
        Apparently china and Russia have also advised their people to leave Israel immediately
        
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        June 17, 2025 4:04pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Gosh, wonder why
        //
        
        2 0
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        June 17, 2025 4:10pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh dear
        President Trump has ordered the National Security Council to convene and remain on standby in the Situation Room.
        
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        June 17, 2025 4:36pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    The RAF should roll out a Lancaster-borne Grand Slam. 22,000 lbs of bang.
    
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    June 17, 2025 6:35pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Weapon + plane + crew + support crew + maintenance & training is one big integrated system.
  Bringing in even a simple new system requires years.
  
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  June 17, 2025 5:49pm
judith8409121

Ian Wishart gets a win over RNZ –
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/564317/nz-media-council-upholds-complaint-over-rnz-heatwave-story-headline

RNZ caught lying again for the Climate Change Cult – the win is only for the headline but the whole article is jam packed full of full-on lies –

No RNZ ther is no increasing frequency and intensity of extreme weather . No RNZ – this spell of weather did not ‘break’ any records. No RNZ – even if this is the opinion of a ‘Climate Scientist’ surely you should do some of your research and find out that what he says is not true.
“RNZ defended its reporting, stating the story’s focus was on current conditions and future implications, not historical comparisons.” – which is sort of mind-bending mad since this article is about how this set of weather stacked up to previous weather
RNZ is truly deep in the cult.
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June 17, 2025 1:27pm
emmess

What do we all think about this idea?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43Vp_70T9Sk
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June 17, 2025 1:58pm
- Jake Dee
  
  Pretty goofy presentation style but basically correct.
  It would be like building a bridge or tunnel to connect one side of a dead end street to the other side of the dead end street when you can just walk across.
  
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  June 17, 2025 6:03pm
graham

Oh look – the NZ Media Council has upheld a complaint against the NZ Herald for “publishing inaccurate information” (*cough* telling porkies *cough*).

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-media-council-upholds-complaint-over-inaccurate-nz-herald-ferry-bullet-points/5HAFE3BQAZF3LPSBGQWV7O3IUY/

On March 1, 2025, the NZ Herald published an RNZ article titled “Hyundai in running to build two new Cook Strait ferries”, but altered the headline to “Hyundai may again bid for Cook Strait ferries after Winston Peters meeting” and added bullet points, including the claim: “The government cancelled a previous $3 billion order with Hyundai due to cost blowouts”. These additions were not part of the original RNZ story.

Wayne Smith lodged a complaint on March 2, arguing that the bullet points were factually incorrect. He pointed out that the Hyundai contract was a fixed-price agreement worth $551 million and could not have experienced cost blowouts. The broader $3 billion figure referred to the total project cost, including port upgrades, not the Hyundai contract itself.

Sounds like the very definition of disinformation – “false information which is intended to mislead.”

The NZ Herald later acknowledged that the bullet points were written by one of its digital producers, not RNZ, and issued a correction on May 9 — more than two months after the article’s publication.

Which is a substantial delay!

The Media Council found that the NZ Herald had breached Principle (1) Accuracy, Fairness and Balance. It noted that the factual inaccuracies were significant and widely known to be incorrect, and that the publication failed to act promptly when the errors were pointed out.

Be interesting to see if any of our other fearless media report on this disinformation deliberately propagated by one of their own.
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June 17, 2025 2:37pm
rouppe

A review of the jacinda Arden documentary “Prime Minister”.

Light on facts of course.

In Ardern’s first 100 days as New Zealand’s PM, her Government banned offshore drilling, established free first-year university tuition and paid parental leave

* Banning offshore drilling has contributed a lot to the energy crisis we have, and the increased use of coal – a worse fuel.
* First year fees free didn’t bring in any more students.
* My son was born 20 years ago. My partner had paid parental leave then.

Then came 2020 and the coronavirus pandemic, a battle that Ardern initially and decisively won by locking down New Zealand entirely, dropping new infections to nearly zero and saving an estimated 80,000 lives.

She also suspended democracy. She suspended normal Parliament, essentially becoming a dictator.

That 80,000 figure was not estimated, it was modeled. By the same people that have failed every climate model they produced. We know that our coronavirus statistics are completely average. Nothing special.

Ardern mounted a national vaccination programme that received a backlash from conspiracy groups similar to and imported from those in America.

Who have been shown to be completely right. Injecting everyone was not necessary. Having people lose their job was not necessary. Permitting police to storm your home without a warrant was not necessary.

Bloody media…
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June 17, 2025 3:17pm
- Handyman
  
  Here is an interesting question…
  Of the 200 countries tracked by WHO, where do you think New Zealand rates in number of covid deaths per capita?
  
  Most lefties rate New Zealand as top ten, maybe top five.
  
  Actually, New Zealand is in the bottom (worse) half — 105th of 200.
  
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  June 17, 2025 4:11pm
- Taieri
  
  Banning offshore drilling has contributed a lot to the energy crisis we have, and the increased use of coal – a worse fuel.
  ———–
  
  Not yet, but it certainly will. There’s quite a time between exploratory (seismic) survey, exploratory drilling and field development (with all supporting infrastructure upstream and downstream) if all stages are successful. It is very costly and depends on many factors. On average it takes just over 5 years from the discovery to start normal operation with another 17 years to reach the peak output, but in many cases this time is considerably longer.
  
  A good explanation of what is involved can be found here:
  
  https://www.brunel.net/en-au/blog/energy/lifecycle-of-an-oil-field
  
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  June 17, 2025 5:17pm
Keith White

The Herald cartoonist Emmerson must lead a miserable existence. He can’t seem to ever do any pleasant cartoons from year to year.
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June 17, 2025 3:19pm
- greybeard
  
  Judging by the content, he is not only being paid a Herald salary but getting Labour/Greens bonuses as well.
  
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  June 18, 2025 8:02am
Ra Henare

Have been thinking (yea I know, dangerous terrirory).

I think most if not all KBs support free speech.

But if I opine that I don’t like Netanyahu (my freedom of speech).
I am attacked as being anti semite.

If I opine that I don’t like Zelensky, crickets.

If I opine I don’t like ???? Name any world leader.
Crickets.

I think antisemite has become the new slur , previously/currently the slur of “racist””, which replaced the slur anti women. But that seems to have died off.

Perhaps some educated person could explain my dislike of a person(Netanyahu, who I consider a warmonger) can be extrapolated to me being anti-Semite(ie all the Jews IN THE WORLD).

PS. I am always happy when I am called a racists/anti-Semite, misogynist etc.
Means that the attackers have run out of responses to my point of view.
ie I have “”won”” the debate.
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June 17, 2025 5:47pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t like Netanyahu
  
  You’d probably be in the majority if you were an Israeli citizen.
  
  https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-70-of-israelis-dont-trust-government-including-almost-half-of-coalition-voters/
  
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  June 17, 2025 7:28pm
  - mike
    
    Well, he’s a corrupt xenophobe, whose best chance of staying out of jail is by continuing his wars for the foreseeable future.
    
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    June 18, 2025 7:53am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Radio NZ is cutting jobs. Who’s to go, who’s to go.

I have my personal shortlist.

http://www.1news.co.nz/2025/06/17/rnz-seeks-voluntary-redundancies-after-govt-funding-cut/
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June 17, 2025 6:57pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

Cyclists pandered to again.

No word on how Auckland Transport will recover the cost of modifying their buses; nor for the loss of passenger revenue from the removed seats; nor for compensation for passengers who have to travel with sweaty, smelly cyclists.

http://www.1news.co.nz/2025/06/17/bikes-on-buses-over-auckland-harbour-bridge-to-be-trialled/
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June 17, 2025 7:01pm
- AitchW
  
  I remember when buses crossing the bridge had racks on the front for bikes. I remember a trial of vans to ferry cyclists and their bikes across the bridge in, I think, the 90s.
  This, I predict, will go the same way and disappear quietly.
  FWIW I used to ride my bike to Ellerslie railway station, put my bike in the guard’s van and take the train into the central station on the Strand then ride to work on Quay St. I’d often ride home. That was in the 80s.
  
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  June 17, 2025 8:25pm
- mike
  
  Not a regular bus user, are you?
  
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  June 18, 2025 7:50am

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