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November 19, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 November 2025

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General Debate

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Cassandra

Daniel Finkelstein is a shrewd political columnist for the UK Times. He has likened Keir Starmer to Biden and Ceauçescu ie a dead man walking situation which has come about very quickly. Labour are under challenge from Reform – moving further left will not solve the problem, although it will motivate the activists. Lesson for National here?
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November 19, 2025 8:01am
- Simon
  
  Mass uncontrolled immigration has wrecked the UK. That’s the lesson. UK is heading towards becoming a failed state. The Wellington Clown show think they are clever with the points based immigration system here. But Treasury are already producing reports that NZ govt finances are wrecked within 25 to 30 years time due to the burden of welfare payments.
  
  Problem around kiwi blog is people here can think past each parliamentary term or govt. It’s widespread system failure.
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:10am
  - Foxfour
    
    Treasury cant predict next 6 months economic conditions within accuracy that is useful
    Going 25-30 years out is laughable and of course done with computer models based on failed ”Austrian” economic theories
    
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    November 19, 2025 11:36am
    - Swifty
      
      One thing that can be reliably predicted though, and based on the entirety of the 20th Century, too much socialism always ends in famine, misery and bloodshed.
      
      Guaranteed.
      
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      November 19, 2025 11:39am
    - imalwaysright
      
      It took Treasury three years to tell us that the Ardern Régimes burning through $80 billion was not a good idea…
      Thanks girls n guys.
      
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      November 19, 2025 11:58am
      - Foxfour
        
        Wasnt ”burnt ”, was keeping economy alive
        
        National would have spent more as they wanted to subsidise commercial landlords too along with all the other subsidies
        
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        November 19, 2025 1:09pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        “Keeping the economy alive”
        
        Embalming fluid would be a more appropriate description.
        
        (Kept the banks and the supermarkets alive. The rest of us got the bill)
        
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        November 19, 2025 1:57pm
      - Swifty
        
        “Kept the economy alive….”
        
        Rubbish. As Treasury confirms, they spent far, far too much and for too long and as many here in KB predicted they would.
        
        “Spend like drunken sailors” even Key warned of it years back.
        
        And we all know why they do it – splashing cash around buys political support and the economic activity it fuels gives the illusion to the masses of economic wizardry.
        
        But then comes the inevitable hangover….
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:51pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    Welcome to the singularity. Imminent arrival of AGI and ASI makes all prognostication and concern over a decade hence pointless. In 25-30 years we’re all dead, or unemployed wastrel ‘pets’ of ASI (if we don’t ban it outright). If nothing is done to prevent it massive white collar job losses will start within 2-3 years.
    
    Pace of AI improvement continues to astound:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/singularity/comments/1p095c9/gemini_30_pro_benchmark_results/#lightbox
    
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    November 19, 2025 3:03pm
- peterwn
  
  Even if National took all these ‘lessons’ on board, they may save some votes from going to ACT or NZF. National would not be drawing many votes from Labour, Green or TPM.
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:15am
  - Cassandra
    
    Good point, peter. Impossible to take votes from Green or Maori parties. But there at least some Labour swingers. Holding on to those who voted Nat last time would be sufficient.
    
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    November 19, 2025 8:20am
    - peterwn
      
      And that is the area that Chris Luxon would be concentrating on. It is the soft left vote he needs, so he needs policies that appeal to these voters while minimising drainage of right wing votes.
      
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      November 19, 2025 8:33am
      - Taieri
        
        so he needs policies that appeal to these voters while minimising drainage of right wing vote
        ————
        
        Most of all, he needs to be able to sell these policies to the electorate. So far, he hasn’t managed to do so.
        
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        November 19, 2025 8:50am
      - Paulus
        
        No it is the women’s vote, for it is apparent that they among all, do not like him on bit – as before, and the Tova Gang are back to lead the media in this.
        Come back Jacinda, the women would support you again anytime.
        
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        November 19, 2025 9:19am
      - Vidar
        
        peter – You just summed up everything wrong with the National Party and its followers.
        
        They do not need to ignore their base and romance the left.
        
        They need to show some vision, a path forward and inspire people.
        
        Your system of moving left every cycle is what is destroying this country.
        
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        November 19, 2025 9:37am
      - septic skeptic
        
        As always, the objective of having nice jobs as Ministers and Keeping Labour Out far outweigh the objective of actually solving any of this countries problems. But so far, Luxon seems even less suited to charming the centre left than he is to leading the country.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:49am
    - plc
      
      Labour swingers – Images of cardigns, sandals and fondue parties
      
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      November 19, 2025 8:59am
      - Foxfour
        
        Better then the Koru Lounge echo box
        
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        November 19, 2025 11:37am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    It seems to me if the Coalition want to win the election they have to get the key metrics heading in the right direction by at least May/June. That means inflation heading down, unemployment heading down, interest rates heading down and most important house prices heading up. The numbers dont matter they are the sausage its the trend that matters thats the sizzle and its the sizzle Luxon and Willis have to sell. If they dont we will have a Labour/Greens/Maori Party in 12 months time.
    
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    November 19, 2025 9:02am
    - Sir Henry Morgan
      
      Housing prices heading up would be a disaster. Prices remain ridiculous. The high prices prevent young people from getting married and reproducing, meaning the government imports the next generation of New Zealanders from India – a “Happy Mix” of uber drivers, tax dodgers, slavers, and rapists.
      
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      November 20, 2025 12:28am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Yes. The politics of envy run very deep, and are completely embedded in our education system and media. Kids are growing up on a relentless drumbeat of why government needs to… wipe their bums, give them jobs, save the planet, pay a living wage, subsidise virtue, accept that criminals are merely friends we haven’t made yet, or are systemically repressed victims, etc etc…
    
    National are desperate to be liked, and run everything through focus groups. Labour and the Greens know that they will never be held to account for their promises, so are throwing them around like confetti – after all, they “care more” so thats alright then. TPM are just a mafia con by Tamiheri’s family.
    
    Its all a bit worrying really, NZ is in a doom loop, and MMP put us there, there is no way out except to collapse and start again.
    
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    November 19, 2025 10:06am
    - leoj
      
      The country was far more stable under FPP.
      Since then the tail has wagged the dog.
      
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      November 19, 2025 11:20am
      - Foxfour
        
        Voters vote governments in and out no matter the system.
        Just sour grapes because Luxon and National are doomed right now.
        
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        November 19, 2025 1:32pm
- Damocles11
  
  Not sure why you are being downticked. Both Luxon and Willis talk down to everyone like they are corporate robots. Willis talks as if she is a font of wisdom explaining everything to 5 year olds. There is no connection between the leadership of National and the voters, just a tired repetition of mantras and stuff like “I am incredibly excited”….I don’t even know who the target audience is. I am sick and tired of the purchasing power of our money being deliberately destroyed just to make a $1 million priced house look ‘affordable’ during an economic malaise. If National wanted to get out of the banksters pockets and instead do something positive for this country – like combating the constant Maorification – then they could have. Everyone I know has Treaty / separatist fatigue and are sick and tired of the historical revisionism that the State – including National – has seemingly capitulated to. It is total cowardice, and reeks of amoral corporate culture.
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:16am
  - peterwn
    
    Sure, fine, but this is not going to win over the soft left vote that National so badly needs.
    Chris and Nicola would dearly love to be all things to all people, but that is just not possible.
    
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    November 19, 2025 8:36am
    - plc
      
      So power for its own sake?
      
      And a ongoing decline to further mediocrity.
      
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      November 19, 2025 9:03am
    - Cassandra
      
      I imagine National is researching this to death. But I’m not too sure what the soft left vote is. It seems to me to be the antithesis of a National voter. Soft left tolerate or endorse the Maori stuff eg see Auckland festival. Centrists/working people not at all keen – isn’t that the Nat target?
      
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      November 19, 2025 9:09am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        It’s not the soft left, that is ridiculous, it’s the swing voter, you can’t call that soft left, they are centrist, and as I keep saying, 3 polls the last 2 weeks 2 polls had coalition well in front, and Talbot who has the opposition 1 seat in front if TPM retain parliament, even with the bullshit of Labour at 38% which is crap, the other 2 polls had Labour on 33 or 32 to say they are at 38% is a 15% higher support than either of these other 2 polls. Let’s try and work out who is correct, there is no way CGT has seen a swing of that magnitude. The poll conducted the other day shows only 37% support CGT and a break down in Auckland dhow they are fully opposed to it
        
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        November 19, 2025 9:48am
      - Positan
        
        “Soft Left” applies to uninformed, shallow-thinking voters who lack appreciation, let alone intelligent understanding, of potential political consequences. They’re driven almost exclusively by the self-interest than by any consideration for the best interests of the country. They have little regard, if any, for the future.
        
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        November 19, 2025 9:57am
    - Gravelroad
      
      What is “going to win over the soft left vote that National so badly needs” then?
      I suppose it will be (in no particular order);
      Mandating (somehow) cheaper groceries and rent
      Agreeing to “Free Palestine”
      More pay for all – except rich pricks and those who produce goods in the primary sector
      No mining
      No waiting lists for anything
      Security of being looked after “like we had with Jacinda”.
      Might as well vote Labour/Green.
      
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      November 19, 2025 9:10am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Rent prices out today show the median price has dropped further, the left whinging about cost of living when rent, inflation, interest rates all down, stolen taxes returned, guarantee of no CGT forcing rents up again, I think we have a better show than rotten media are saying.
        
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        November 19, 2025 9:50am
      - AitchW
        
        What will win the soft left is improving the economy so that everyone benefits. Improve the health and education systems and lock up more criminals.
        We are seeing the start of these improvements and by mid next year the economy will be growing and business confidence will be up.
        As long as nobody in the government does a Doyle or McSkimming then the coalition should win the election.
        Don’t forget TPM and, to a lesser extent, the Greens are doing everything they can to make themselves unelectable.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:05am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      “Chris and Nicola would dearly love to be all things to all people”
      
      That is Chris’s problem. Look at the trans issue. I asked the Minister for Women if women should have to compete against men and if these “men” should be allowed in women’s spaces.
      
      I should have got No and No as an answer. I got waffle. Maybe Chris should ask Donald for advice.
      
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      November 19, 2025 10:32am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Whether or not its justified, it appears that people either don’t trust Luxon as a person, or they don’t trust that he has the ability to do the hard stuff.
        
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        November 19, 2025 11:16am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Chuck bird
        
        Yes, below the wasted vote was more than 5%, it had the coalition on 62 seats opposition on 58, I can see how my numbers can be wrong, but I have just realise who it was.
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:27pm
    - kowtow
      
      The ‘soft left vote” seems to be the folk who consider Labour would be better on the economy .
      
      I rest my case.
      
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      November 19, 2025 11:32am
    - Foxfour
      
      Dunedin Giant how do your numbers add up
      Curia had these numbers
      Nat 30.2 + Act 8.6 +NZF 9.1 which is 47.9%
      
      There would have to be a lot of ‘wasted’ vote under 5% parties for that to make 61 or more seats.
      
      I gather it will require the ”largest party rule’ invented in 2017 by Nats supporters to be ditched
      
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      November 19, 2025 11:46am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        I am sure there will be a lot of wasted votes as usual.
        
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        November 19, 2025 12:56pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        There was 5% wasted vote, the poll had the breakdown, it was 62 seats coalition and 58seats opposition. is that not correct? not sure what you are suggestion, but it was a clear 4 seat difference, and the Morgan poll which had the opposition in front last poll had it 63 seats coalition to 57 seats opposition. i really cannot see how you are trying to suggest my numbers are wrong
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:25pm
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        Oh its you, if you are going to question my numbers, then put the full story in
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:26pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      Do you think campaigning on asset sales will win over the “soft left”?
      
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      November 19, 2025 8:51pm
  - Quail
    
    D11
    My uptick is insufficient, so this is in support of your post.Your comments are 100%.right.
    Bureaucracy is ruling NZ , being rubber-stamped by a Government whose only principle apparently is to keep their seats on the treasury benches.
    The Government is abusing producing NZ populace with increased regulation ( bureaucrat led) and also increased penalties for even inadvertent breaches.
    And ,as you say ,trying to make million dollar houses affordable by allowing or even encouraging inflation .
    In the meantime the bureaucracy sweeps their own misdemeanours under the rug.They are not accountable to anyone.
    Your Maorification comment is right on the money.
    Will leave it at that for now
    
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    November 19, 2025 9:21am
  - keepcalmcarryon
    
    My sense is people will overlook some negative to have strong direction and a way out of the mess we are in, no one expects perfection but we do expect strong leadership and we haven’t had it.
    
    Our bureaucracies are too out of control to coast through like Key, they are doing real harm to New Zealand, as is the insane racial separatism.
    Pick a government department, they are useless bloated and dangerously self interested, metrics only get worse as their numbers increase.
    
    The lot of everyday kiwis is made worse by mass low skilled migration immigration, loss of basic democratic rights (one person one vote) and being bled at every turn to feed iwi elites who don’t then look after their own poor.
    Our kiwi way of life ,like fishing, taken away as other cultures take everything or commercial interests are put first and the public then locked out.
    What does national do about it?
    Shoots down the treaty principles bill
    Moves to protect banks against the public interest (eventually backed down)
    Instigating mass vehicle surveillance
    Wants to campaign on asset sales
    
    What an absolute shitshow.
    
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    November 19, 2025 10:00am
  - leoj
    
    The weak Nats need a huge wake up call.
    If the country turns back to the left with an inept Labour Party in coalition with the wierdos and crazies in the Green Party plus the misfits of the part-Maori Party, the numbers leaving the country will double or triple.
    Next govt needs to have ACT with as many seats as the Nats. ACT is NZ’s version of the Reform Party and is badly needed.
    
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    November 19, 2025 11:31am
NeverMindTheBollocks

A huge to-do regarding coloured sand. There’s been absolutely no analysis that I’ve seen about the risks specific to the sand, just a moral panic concerning the word “asbestos “.

Anyone should know that brightly coloured anything is unnatural and unlikely to be good for you.
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November 19, 2025 8:01am
- peterwn
  
  As far as I understand, traces of asbestos have been found in the sand. Current conventional wisdom is even very small amounts of asbestos is a health risk which is why the concern.
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:41am
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Good coverage in Australia on this, puts the risk into a context. Extract here.
  
  The clean-up and disposal of coloured sand, possibly contaminated with asbestos, continues across the country, with dozens of schools closed in the ACT, Tasmania and South Australia. The types of asbestos detected in the sand have been tremolite and chrysotile, both of which were in states unlikely to form fibres, and therefore were considered “very low risk”.
  
  The ACCC on Sunday said respirable – or airborne – asbestos had not been detected in any of the tested samples, meaning the products are unlikely to release asbestos fibres fine enough to be inhaled even if they are contaminated.
  
  Prof Dino Pisaniello, from the University of Adelaide’s School of Public Health, agreed the size of any asbestos particles in the sand was unlikely to be fine enough to be inhaled deeply into the lungs.
  
  “The airborne concentrations in actual use would be extremely low – below the limit of detection by normal means,” he said. “All of this gives considerable confidence in the risk being extremely low.”
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:57am
- Handyman
  
  There is no safe level of asbestos exposure.
  For most poisons it needs a sufficient dose (at once or over time) to be fatal. Some poisons are actually beneficial at low doses eg morphine.
  With asbestos, a single fibre embedded in the lung can cause lung cancer and death.
  The good news is that the odds of getting that fibre are very very low. You could work with asbestos for twenty years and suffer no effects. But the impact could be huge; a classic low probability/massive impact.
  
  Personally I require my grandkid’s day care facility to declare never having used this problem sand.
  
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  November 19, 2025 9:35am
  - imalwaysright
    
    It would be interesting to see the increase in deaths from asbestosis after the Twin Towers came down in NY.
    
    Apparently every pipe in the buildings was lagged in asbestos.
    
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    November 19, 2025 10:17am
  - PurplePen
    
    Yep. It can take decades for the cancer to occur. If you’re 50, 60 or 70 it probably won’t matter as you’ll be dead before the cancer occurs. But if you’re unfortunate enough to breathe in a fibre at the age of 6 or so …, or the staff aged 30 … well …
    
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    November 19, 2025 10:59am
- Ghost
  
  One of the towns around timaru, for, I think it was 6 months, was drinking asbestos in their water. Health department said it was safe as it wasn’t inhaled. Maybe so, but I heard many turned towards bottled water
  
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  November 19, 2025 9:38am
  - Quail
    
    Ghost,
    FYI ,a number of municipal water supplies are reticulated through aged asbestos pipe.
    Those water supplies have been tested and passed for human consumption .
    Allegedly the according to the Health Department danger is only present when asbestos dust is inhaled.
    
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    November 19, 2025 10:08am
    - Ghost
      
      I’m actually talking about asbestos in the water, not the pipe construction. asbestos that clogged up people’s filters, people’s hot water cylinder, lawns and vegetable gardens with asbestos from watering them
      
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      November 19, 2025 10:17am
      - peterwn
        
        Asbestos in water is from asbestos water pipes. There is no issue with asbestos fibres in the digestive tract. It is the physical property, not the chemical property of asbestos fibres which causes problems. When breathed in, they get into the lungs and start clogging up where the oxygen is absorbed into blood in the lungs. When a fibre becomes embedded there is no natural mechanism to dislodge or absorb it clear of the lungs. It could be if a bit of lung is damaged by asbestos fibres, the damage spreads, but I do not know.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:52am
      - Ghost
        
        As I’ve said, that it was safe as it wasn’t inhaled, but people still turned to bottled water.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:59am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Kindergartens all around the country closed, why don’t these bitter leftie entities tied to vulgar unions simply take the sand off the table so until we know the facts kids can’t use it, instead of shafting parents at the last minute as they love to do
  
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  November 19, 2025 9:52am
  - PurplePen
    
    I presume they need to check the whole place for stray asbestos fibres. Lord knows how you do that. The kids could have been throwing the stuff and making a mess in which case there’s potentially fibres anywhere.
    
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    November 19, 2025 11:01am
- imalwaysright
  
  My uncle worked in an asbestos mine in Cyprus when he was a teenager.
  They manually shovelled the stuff while wearing a hanky over their face to protect them.
  He had his 98th birthday last Monday.
  Maybe asbestos affects only certain people ?
  
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  November 19, 2025 10:39am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    White asbestos, or blue?
    
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    November 19, 2025 6:42pm
Simon

Net Zero nutjobs National shouldn’t have the technology for monitoring and surveillance of people’s cars and travel. When Luxon talks about using technology to achieve the Net Zero fever dream by 2050 this is what he means.
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November 19, 2025 8:02am
artemisia

That SC Uber decision. Yesterday’s news. Except that it isn’t. It’s an undersea volcano getting ready to do what volcanoes do. There is a flurry of activity. Questions and pretty much no answers.

Eric Crampton summarises the situation – If this is employment law, the law needs to change Newsroom, paywalled, but probably will be posted on the NZ Initiative site at some point.
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November 19, 2025 8:10am
- pdm
  
  arty I heard David Seymour saying yesterday that the very capable Brooke van Velden has legislation coming through the House that will restore contractors operating for Uber and other businesses to Self Employed Contracting roles.
  
  I am not sure how far away it is though.
  
  It does seem that going to the Supreme Court will be yet another pointless exercise driven by Unions telling people how they must live their lives.
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:18am
  - peterwn
    
    It is not just unions. Disenchanted contractors will often attempt to claim they are ’employees’ when they have grievances against their ’employers’.
    Conversely genuine employees need protection from being called ‘contractors’ to circumvent employment law. This especially applies to immigrants and other vulnerable employees who receive shabby treatment from their employers.
    
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    November 19, 2025 8:48am
  - Foxfour
    
    It wont ‘restore’ anything.
    What it will do is take away Uber drivers legal rights to go to employment court.
    
    Ubers conditions were so onerous, especially prevent owner drivers from establishing relationship with customers- like non Uber taxi drivers do, or real estate agents do , or plumbers do, or IT contractors do.
    
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    November 19, 2025 11:10am
    - Skippytony
      
      Here is the thing. I see this all the time. People move into contracting arrangements for the benefits. They ignore or magic think away the risks and the downsides. Then when one day they suddenly find they have worked all day for nothing, they look across the road at the employee and say “hey, I want what they’ve got”.
      I have been a contractor for over twenty five years. I have this conversation with people all the time about magic thinking.
      The simple remedy is this. Its not hard. Understand the contract you are planning to enter into. If it is not good business for both parties, walk away. Trying to fix it is back to magic thinking.
      
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      November 19, 2025 11:30am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Yes, but the broader point is that our economy will do much better if people are allowed to work for less than the current minimum wage and without all the extra taxes and compliance costs that accompany the hiring of an employee. This is just one example of that.
  
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  November 19, 2025 8:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Remember we do have the highest Minimum Wage in at least the OECD, and most other worldwide countries.
    T0 achieve that we need what is known as productivity which we do not have – and never will probably because of our Welfare State.
    
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    November 19, 2025 9:24am
    - MCōs
      
      The NZ minimum wage is $23.50
      On today’s exchange rate the Australian minimum wage is $27.15
      On today’s exchange rate the UK minimum wage is $28.85
      Are they in the OECD?
      
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      November 19, 2025 9:39am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Or the value of the NZD is plummeting.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:21am
      - Yabster
        
        why are you using exchange rates to compare minimum wages?-[Mod – no need for that]- a better metric is medium wage – on that metric it is the 6th highest in the OECD.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:36am
      - septic skeptic
        
        I think the comparison is minimum to average, that should have been stated.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:58am
    - Taieri
      
      Remember we do have the highest Minimum Wage in at least the OECD, and most other worldwide countries.
      ————-
      
      We also have, relative to wages, one of the highest prices in the OECD countries.
      
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      November 19, 2025 9:40am
      - Foxfour
        
        Mcos just refuted that claim.
        Its just silly nonsense you talk, Im sure you got it from KB
        
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        November 19, 2025 11:12am
      - Swifty
        
        Paulus has that wrong.
        
        New Zealand has one of the highest minimum wages in the OECD, if not the world, RELATIVE to our median wage.
        
        DPF has documented it repeatedly.
        
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        November 19, 2025 11:57am
    - mandk
      
      It’s not the highest in absolute terms.
      
      It’s relative to the median wage.
      
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      November 19, 2025 10:49am
      - Swifty
        
        That’s right.
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:21pm
    - peterwn
      
      National could ‘freeze’ the minimum wage until it is brought to a more appropriate level in real terms. While this would delight many right wingers, there is a serious risk of losing that all important support from the soft left ie those a bit left of centre or even those slightly right of centre.
      
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      November 19, 2025 10:57am
      - Foxfour
        
        Why should taxpayers keep families going by Working for Families and Winz payments.
        The employers job is to pay enough . Most do so no problem
        
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        November 19, 2025 1:29pm
      - Swifty
        
        “Why should taxpayers keep families going by Working for Families….”
        
        It’s the other way around.
        
        WFF keeps wages low.
        
        Remove WFF and employers will be forced to lift wages if they want to attract good employees.
        
        Having said that, if governments, especially Labour governments, just spent less, they wouldn’t need to tax as much and would leave more in the pockets of NZ families.
        
        But no. Labour logic is the bigger and more costly the state gets the better off families are.
        
        Good grief.
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:27pm
  - MCōs
    
    So what do you think is an acceptable hourly rate twenty dollars, fifteen dollars?
    My wife heard about a job going in a Thai restaurant in Cuba St, Wellington. They told her she could have it and the hourly rate was five dollars at a time when the minimum was about eighteen.
    
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    November 19, 2025 9:30am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      If a family hires a maid from Indonesia and pays her $1000 per month, it is a win for everyone. It’s probably less than the cost of day care or after school care for their kids. The maid can support her whole family back home with that kind of money. It’s a dream job for her. But if you calculate the rate per hour it might be $5 or less.
      
      The amount of value being destroyed by our current minimum wage is massive. It’s hard to even imagine all the possible economic activity that has effectively been made illegal.
      
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      November 19, 2025 9:58am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Spot on NK.
        
        Labour should be a free market instead of the Government enforced, employer funded, welfare system it has been developed into.
        
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        November 19, 2025 10:26am
      - Inandout
        
        Nigel, one way around these minimum wage laws is to have the maid live out the back in her own quarters. From her wages take an amount to cover the lodgings. In many countries help lives around the property, such as Obama’s chef.
        
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        November 19, 2025 11:57am
      - MCōs
        
        There are countries where that happens and it’s not the win win win you infer.
        It might be a win for the people who get the cheap L
        labour and the grasping families back home who demand all the money, but not necessarily the poorly paid worker who is open to physical and sexual abuse. They have a work permit which ties them to the employer and are too afraid to complain.
        
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        November 19, 2025 12:45pm
      - MCōs
        
        The downside of that arrangement Inandout is the servant is on call 24/7.
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:45pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  The SC decision was less about employment law and more about the political ideology of the judges. Their decision was a total joke, designed to give Government (and Unions) more control over workers in this country. The big point that one of the judges made was that no reasonable person could think when getting a ride on Uber that they’re contracting with the driver. That’s literally the point of the app! Drivers get to choose which jobs to take AND they get to choose when to log in and out AND they get to choose the hours they work. This is about as far from an employee relationship as you can get as a contractor.
  
  This is judicial overreach where the Judges are trying to change the law by judicial decree. We have far too much of this in this country.
  
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  November 19, 2025 10:40am
  - Foxfour
    
    Uber lost at every court :
    Employment Court, Appeal Court and Supreme Court (unanimous)
    Their case was hopeless as even Justice Stephen Kos a conservative judge and former President of Court of Appeal agreed with majority
    It was Uber that claimed that the company was an invisible partner and the customer contracted with the driver.
    It wasnt at all like other taxi drivers where the booking services side of it is truly invisible and you pay the driver directly and can make ongoing relationship ( forbidden by Uber among other onerous conditions)
    
    Your claims not match the facts
    
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    November 19, 2025 11:20am
    - Swifty
      
      If one of my children comes to me and says their job offer contains conditions they’re not happy with, I say invite the employer to change them and if they won’t then don’t work for them – there’s hundreds of other opportunities out there.
      
      One of the great lies being perpetrated with all this is that Uber has held a gun to these driver’s heads.
      
      All that’s been achieved in all this is the drivers who did value their work and flexibility with Uber now have their livelihoods destroyed, their flexibility robbed, and New Zealanders back to $50 instead of $20 to get home from the shops or doctor.
      
      Thanks union wreckers!
      
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      November 19, 2025 12:09pm
      - Foxfour
        
        the drivers who did value their work and flexibility with Uber “have livelihoods destroyed””
        
        Complete Rubbish. UK Supreme Court in 2021 said Uber drivers there were workers not contractors
        
        Uber UK terms do say your income will be topped to meet minimum pay requirements for the hours worked. Holiday pay is also worked out normally and paid directly as well
        https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/driver-worker-faq/
        
        Drivers will always earn at least the National Living Wage. If your earnings (after vehicle expenses and other charges like the Congestion Charge Zone in London) were lower than the National Living Wage, Uber will top up your earnings to meet the National Living Wage. This is added on a weekly basis and will be reflected on your pay statement.
        
        Your claims dont match the facts
        
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        November 19, 2025 1:15pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        That’s hilarious FF
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:10pm
      - Swifty
        
        Your rant didn’t address my main points.
        
        Want to try again?
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:43pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      The fact is that there are multiple determinants of if something is an employee relationship. These judges chose the narrowest possible definition.
      
      Control – an employee has much less control over how, when, and where the work is done.
      
      Supervision – how much control does the “employer” have over the work being performed?
      
      Integration – the worker wears company uniforms/goes to events etc. How is the pay calculated (set or based on work done)? Any reimbursements for costs?
      
      Economic Reality – who takes the financial risk?
      
      Intention – did the parties reasonably believe it was an employee relationship?
      
      Work performed – is it core to the business?
      
      Equipment – who owns the equipment?
      
      Exclusivity – can they work for others?
      
      So, the only factors on the side of the judges was “is it core to the business” (which is why they needed to claim that Uber isn’t an intermediary) and “Exclusivity”. They fail on every other test. It really is a terrible decision.
      
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      November 19, 2025 1:26pm
      - Foxfour
        
        Not narrow at all. Uber lost each time the courts.
        1 judge Employment Court
        3 judges at Court of Appeal, 5 judges at SC.
        Unanimous decision by Supreme Court.
        
        It wasnt narrow grounds. Uber had complete control despite them saying they were invisible intermediary
        Existing taxi owner drivers shows how real contracts work. The Booking service doesnt collect the fare or place onerous conditions on its drivers, the cooperative is owned by the drivers. The Coop drivers can arrange future work from passengers. They can pick up passengers from ranks and are arent restricted to Uber app only customers
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:49pm
  - artemisia
    
    About the current choices you mention. Sounds like the SC took the view that drivers are an employee when they are logged in to the app. An employment contract would prob state the app is to be logged in at all specified times (like 9 to 5 excl breaks), no choice to decline jobs, and include restraint of trade provisions.
    
    Maybe the four drivers who are now ’employees’ may be declined a permie job offer if they don’t meet the requirements.
    
    Interesting times!
    
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    November 19, 2025 12:10pm
    - Foxfour
      
      Thats not the case at all.
      Minium wage also is per hour worked and many people have part time jobs.
      Its no problem and been done elsewhere by Uber to top up pay to get minimum wage and holiday pay Even with car expenses
      Eg
      “”If your earnings (after vehicle expenses and other charges like the Congestion Charge Zone in London) were lower than the National Living Wage, Uber will top up your earnings to meet the National Living Wage.”
      Easy peasy
      
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      November 19, 2025 1:22pm
      - Colville
        
        So how does that work for a driver asleep in their car at 2am?
        
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        November 19, 2025 2:32pm
      - artemisia
        
        Uber, and others, may decide to only offer permie contracts to full time employees, and with shift hours that suit their business.
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:26pm
      - Foxfour
        
        Its a taxi service – they are only paid when with a customer. Not on call
        Uber requires drivers to respond to offered jobs in 15 sec.
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:38pm
- Swifty
  
  I do hope the unions haven’t misled these drivers.
  
  I hear one driver interviewed yesterday and he didn’t think this decision will have any impact on Uber’s future ride pricing.
  
  Also, I understand that if the drivers all become full time employees two major impacts will be:
  
  1. It’s estimated that 30% of drivers will promptly be terminated as surplus to reqts.
  
  2. Remaining drivers will lose any and all flexibility they currently have on when they work, for how long they work, what days they work, when they take breaks, when they take holidays etc etc.
  
  I trust the unions have outlined all these risks and impacts to the drivers before the court action was commenced.
  
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  November 19, 2025 12:03pm
  - Foxfour
    
    UK Courts including SC said back in 2021 Uber drivers were workers not contractors- due to the onerous way the app controls their income. Normal taxi drivers get paid directly by customer
    
    So UK UBER get pay topped up minimum wage and holiday pay
    https://www.uber.com/en-GB/blog/driver-worker-faq/
    Its there in black and white
    
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    November 19, 2025 1:18pm
  - Foxfour
    
    No has said Uber drivers must be ‘full time'”
    Part time workers get minimum wage too …per hour
    
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    November 19, 2025 1:26pm
    - Swifty
      
      Time will tell just how much damage this has caused.
      
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      November 19, 2025 2:41pm
      - Foxfour
        
        Been like this in UK since around 2022.
        Facts dont agree with your claims, which are plain hokum
        
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        November 19, 2025 4:39pm
      - Swifty
        
        “Facts don’t agree with your claims….”
        
        You’re overusing that device.
        
        “Time will tell just how much damage this has caused.”
        
        What claim have I made in that statement and what facts disprove it?
        
        You’re like a stuck record.
        
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        November 19, 2025 5:03pm
  - OlderChas
    
    Swifty as far as I can see, the union is/has been talking with only four drivers. I stand to be corrected.
    
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    November 19, 2025 1:56pm
    - Swifty
      
      The case/claim has only involved four, yes.
      
      No doubt the union has been speaking to and raising the expectations of many others – all potential new recruits you see.
      
      This is just a union membership drive.
      
      Change the law please National, and be quick about it.
      
      4 1
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      November 19, 2025 4:42pm
    - Foxfour
      
      Court decision – that they are employees not contractors- applies to all Uber drivers, whether union members or not
      
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      November 19, 2025 4:52pm
      - Swifty
        
        That’s true, it applies to all drivers.
        
        What a pity for the drivers who loved the flexibility and were happy with the existing arrangement.
        
        The unions must now be looking around for the next thing to destroy.
        
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        November 19, 2025 5:07pm
Bloody Dago

Is Rory McCarthy at Light Force Solar right about this:
“One of the biggest misconceptions about solar in New Zealand is that it needs sunshine, but McCarthy says it’s actually about light, not heat. Ultraviolet light reaches solar panels even through clouds. New Zealand gets around 1500 hours of quality UV per year — which is not far behind the United Arab Emirates’ 1630 hours, despite the Gulf nation having 340 days of sunshine.”
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November 19, 2025 8:48am
- [email protected]
  
  Yes, our experience is that only rain kills the solar power.
  
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  November 19, 2025 9:28am
  - Jethrod
    
    And darkness!
    
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    November 19, 2025 9:42am
- rockape
  
  Yes given the same amount of light solar works better in the cold. But of course when cloudy it gets less light. Eg yesterday warm but cloudy my 14 pqnnnel solar generated7 kw in the day, the day before cooler and sunny all day 33kw, it’s max output is about 4.5 kw per hour. Overall it provides half of the power for a large two family home with 4 freezers and 2 fridge freezers on tho go.
  
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  November 19, 2025 9:45am
  - Bloody Dago
    
    We installed a 5000kw generator 3 years ago to cover any potential issues with supply. So far, we haven’t had to use it. After testing all the devices individually, we found to our astonishment that boiling the jug had single the highest usage of all devices bar the hot water heater. We included a new permanent 90-degree boiling water outlet into the new kitchen tap this year. I don’t know if we win on the cost side, but the convenience side wouldn’t do without one. Our generator would pick it up as well.
    
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    November 19, 2025 3:57pm
    - rockape
      
      I put vacuum tube hot water in when I built in 2011. Plus a larger hot water tank. It has paid for itself twice over in savings.
      
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      November 19, 2025 4:41pm
    - Taieri
      
      We installed a 5000kw generator 3 years ago to cover any potential issues with supply
      ————-
      
      Are you running a small town?
      5000kW is a big generator.
      For comparison, Monowai power station installed capacity is 7400kW.
      
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      November 19, 2025 10:06pm
Yvette

Two books by distinguished authors have been ruled out of New Zealand’s premier literary prize because their covers were generated with artificial intelligence.

This, applied to films, would surely see every movie using special effects (that is, something that is not reality) ruled out of Academy Award consideration.
Apart from a point that all really successful AI imagery depends on a well-written prompt (authorship or ‘brief’) or random photography or imagery found in image collections like Getty, which a book manufacturer may licence but has not authored.

It is disheartening to see judges of such media of communication as books are, to not understand what AI is.
As with any problem, an understanding of what you are dealing with is usually basic to a solution.

A book may be outstanding in the knowledge or experience it gives a reader and it is the degree to which it may uplift life that should make it worthy of being awarded an arbitrary prize.
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November 19, 2025 8:56am
- imalwaysright
  
  They shouldn’t judge a book by its cover.
  
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  November 19, 2025 10:29am
Ross Nixon

Anyone else getting INSECURE SITE when trying to load kiwiblog today?
I had to use an obscure web browser (Comet) to get in.
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November 19, 2025 9:27am
- Ghost
  
  I would guess kiwiblog is part of the global issues with cloudflare.
  
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  November 19, 2025 9:34am
- Ross Nixon
  
  It came right very quickly after that. Sorry for not replying straight away.
  
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  November 19, 2025 10:40am
keepcalmcarryon

Jehovahs witnesses just door knocked.
What a sign of the times, their intro was about climate change, and go to the website, something something Jesus.
Lively people , not my thing, sorry.

If you didn’t think climate alarmism equates to a form of religious indoctrination and belief, there is your proof they cohabit the same place.
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November 19, 2025 10:27am
- keepcalmcarryon
  
  “Lovely people” spell correct soz
  
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  November 19, 2025 11:17am
- Foxfour
  
  Climate change is just a tweak on their usual disaster message where the end of the world is nigh!
  
  Worshipping the carbon god it is not.
  
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  November 19, 2025 11:25am
  - keepcalmcarryon
    
    Agree, the end is nigh being the common belief of course.
    
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    November 19, 2025 11:38am
- Inandout
  
  keep, I would have replied that I believe in religious change, just not theirs.
  
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  November 19, 2025 12:00pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Poor grasp of science is inherent in their world view so that makes sense.
  
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  November 19, 2025 1:18pm
rouppe

Do people not look in the mirror before doing these interviews?

Anau Fangupo says she has $200 a week for groceries for her family of five.
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November 19, 2025 10:44am
- Ghost
  
  I saw that and just thought
  
  1 – stop drinking soda drinks, it might be cheap, but it is a luxury
  2 – are your children really just eating noodles, does that nice new looking air fryer on the bench not get used
  
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  November 19, 2025 11:09am
  - Jack5
    
    Ghost’s soda drinks….
    
    Is that term now used in NZ for the old description/classification of “soft drinks”?
    
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    November 19, 2025 12:59pm
    - Ghost
      
      Can I blame Israel? I’d just made a sodastream ginger beer, so soda was on my mind
      
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      November 19, 2025 1:23pm
  - Albie
    
    And how much goes to “The Church” every week I wonder?
    
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    November 19, 2025 1:02pm
- artemisia
  
  So husband working, (cheap) state house, kids sponsored. No mention of income, expenses, donations, debts if any, Working for Families etc.
  
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  November 19, 2025 12:27pm
rouppe

$37,000 to swear in Andrew Little as mayor.
https://www.thepost.co.nz/nz-news/360890792/wellington-council-swearing-costs-food-and-ferns-hold-bevvy

$3250 on ~~cultural services~~ taniwha tax. Which might almost be insulting since they paid $3500 for some plants for a couple of hours.

It just a bloody job, not a royal ascension.

For contrast I googled for information on Wayne Brown’s swearing in costs and couldn’t find any. Not that I looked THAT hard.

Does that mean that Whanau’s second parting gift to rate payers (after the painting that should have been a photo) was notable or that Stuff is putting the boot into her?
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November 19, 2025 11:11am
- Foxfour
  
  Auckland had a big grand ceremony in Town Hall for Mayor and councillors too- inauguration
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/577509/auckland-mayor-wayne-brown-sworn-in-lashes-out-at-government
  You didnt look very hard…. just type in a few cues
  Brown took shots at the Government for the economic recession in Auckland
  
  ‘”Following the swearing in and the mayor’s speech, there were performances by Samoan performance group, Tatau Manaia, Rangitoto College’s Chinese Traditional Dance Club, and vocalist Temaleti Tupou, who sang the national anthem.”
  
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  November 19, 2025 11:30am
  - MCōs
    
    Four years ago Mr Luxon went 200m in a hire Merc from home to parliament when he was elected Leader of the Opposition
    We’re all entitled to the occasional extravagance once in a while
    I read about some people who won millions on the lottery. They went out and got a feed of fish and chips
    
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    November 19, 2025 12:07pm
    - MCōs
      
      I use them to illustrate some point or other
      
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      November 19, 2025 12:28pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You seem to have comprehension issues.
    rouppe said; “For contrast I googled for information on Wayne Brown’s swearing in costs and couldn’t find any”
    
    Apparently you cant find those Costs either! So perhaps its inappropriate to claim “you didnt look very hard” Lol
    
    I note that Wayne Browns Ceremony was full of the usual Mumbo Jumbo from my cousins who like selling their Mana for some coin but there doesnt appear to be any food etc- unlike Littles Function.
    I would suggest that Brown providing no hospitality meant his was cheaper. But off you go and find that cost.
    
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    November 19, 2025 12:22pm
  - rouppe
    
    Yes I saw that but the salient point being it doesn’t mention how much it cost, does it.
    
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    November 19, 2025 2:38pm
- imalwaysright
  
  “$37,000 to swear in Andrew Little as mayor.”
  
  Wellington ratepayers are used to paying a lot for a Little.
  
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  November 19, 2025 12:17pm
  - Pope Punctilious II
    
    Very good, IAR.
    
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    November 19, 2025 9:12pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Speaking of which, I see Tory Whanau is off to Melbourne. Good luck, Tory!
  
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  November 19, 2025 7:11pm
Rusty

Are the Jehovah’s witnesses talking at your door about climate change now?

They used to talk a lot about the invisible return to earth of Jesus in 1914 and they were the generation who would witness Armageddon.

I suppose they stopped because the 1914 generation are all dead.
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November 19, 2025 11:22am
- OlderChas
  
  Any time I am buttonholed by religious people these days I ask “So – Adam and Eve produced only two sons. Where did the rest of us come from?” They hush fairly quickly.
  
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  November 19, 2025 2:13pm
I remember when

I know that a lot of what passes for news is not always considered the whole truth.
However, on Monday night while celebrating the reopening of the Tangariro Crossing the following statement was made.

“99% of wildfires are caused by humans.”

Does this include ‘climate change’?
No such qualification was made.

Is the McSkimming report forcing other agencies to rethink their operations?
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November 19, 2025 12:04pm
Swifty

Regarding all the schools that have come out saying that they’ll continue to ‘give effect’ to the Treaty – it just reinforces to me how it is absolutely vital that NZ parents have choices available to them in educating their children, and over and above the often single state option they are zoned for.

The statists and union vested interests hold that NZ parents should have no options, that they must be forced to use their local state school, notwithstanding that a great many of them have now been taken over as leftist indoctrination camps.

I say no. And hope this treaty business backfires badly and drives parents en masse to charter schools in coming years as they demand options and alternatives.
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November 19, 2025 12:29pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Swifty – we have a commenter on here, Nikolo Donatello, who says he/she is employed as a NZ public Servant.
  He/she has described several times the considerable amount of knowledge and observance of the ToW, Te Reo, karakia etc that is demanded of public servants by their bosses today.
  And the FIFO effect.
  So if students don’t go to schools which insist on Te Reo and Treaty knowledge being accepted and studied, what chance will these kids have of getting jobs in future?
  No chance of a cushy government job apparently.
  
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  November 19, 2025 3:05pm
  - Swifty
    
    Oh yes, a very good point.
    
    We’ve now got ideological purity tests in place to assess whether you’re suitable to join the civil service – just look at how many civil service job descriptions require candidates to swear fealty to the Treaty, to Maori interests, to DEI etc or you won’t get a look in.
    
    The left have taken over our institutions to such an extent they now have the power to control who comes in and who doesn’t.
    
    Their takeover is all but complete.
    
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    November 19, 2025 4:52pm
  - Swifty
    
    Increasingly, and until things change, our civil service will be hostile territory for non-believers.
    
    While this situation persists, obviously the private sector is where they will survive and blossom.
    
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    November 19, 2025 4:59pm
In Vino Veritas

The Chinese space program. Doh. “The Shenzhou-21 crew has been marooned on China’s Tiangong space station after three of their colleagues were brought back to Earth in the wrong spacecraft”.
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November 19, 2025 12:53pm
Chuck Bird

I was appalled to hear on The Country that Luxon had not heard of the Methane Science Accord. I wonder if he has heard of Jane Smith.

He should not be talking about methane if he has not heard of the MSA.

That is why I am voting for Act.
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November 19, 2025 1:00pm
imalwaysright

Tory is off to Melbourne to live.

I thought she would at least hang around to see the transformation of Wellington come to fruition?

Or maybe Melbourne is to Tory what Harvard is to Ardern.

Paywalled
Former Wellington mayor Tory Whanau moving to Melbourne | The Post https://share.google/8NUM7yO5ngX9XoLju
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November 19, 2025 1:15pm
- rouppe
  
  Melbourne is in Victoria which is the state entrenching an indigenous treaty.
  
  She’ll be able to offer her “expertise” in indigenous matters, being a marginalised, oppressed, Wahine Toa victim of colonial attitudes…
  
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  November 19, 2025 2:50pm
- AitchW
  
  Rob Muldoon made an astute observation on such a move….
  
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  November 19, 2025 3:26pm
  - Graeme Hall
    
    Cannot imagine she would raise the collective IQ anywhere, short of some places in the Middle East that suffer from inbreeding.
    
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    November 19, 2025 4:38pm
- Rumblestrip
  
  Don’t let the door hit you…. etc!
  
  6 2
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  November 19, 2025 3:52pm
- NothingLeft
  
  Would anyone give her a job after her debaucherously term as mayor? An out of control middle aged woman with no personal discipline and nothing to recommend her other than an over-played victim/diversity card.
  
  Probably be snapped up by some far left wing taxpayer funded NGO as ticking the only qualifications (brown whining womyn) that they care about.
  
  8 3
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  November 19, 2025 4:16pm
  - AitchW
    
    She’ll fit right in in a Labour organisation in Aus.
    
    1 0
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    November 19, 2025 7:57pm
surfing

https://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/374636-tauranga-city-councillors-get-15-56–pay-rise.html

Why does the remuneration authority give these smiling clowns a near 16% pay rise?

They are completely oblivious to government objections to council rate rises — this is one reason behind that!

It’s disgusting.
8 1
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November 19, 2025 2:14pm
OlderChas

That woman that used to be a Prime Minister was renowned for word salad waffle. Can someone interpret this psychcobabble from an All Black assistant coach or similar?
“Yeah heart and soul. To focus just don’t have the group, to achieve something special and to embrace the all blacks jersey by, looking for the opportunity of a grand slam and, in the shed after the game there was a great deal of hurt.” Scot Hansen
6 0
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November 19, 2025 2:20pm
Chuck Bird

I am almost halfway through “Jacinda the untold stories” by David Cohen. I recommend it and also buying it from the Centrist.
4 4
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November 19, 2025 2:58pm
- Jake Dee
  
  I salute your service to the community Sir!
  give us a review when you’re finished because I’m not touching it.
  
  4 1
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  November 19, 2025 6:31pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Jake, are you aware it is not too complimentary of her?
    
    0 3
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    November 19, 2025 8:09pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    FYI
    
    McBlog: Jacinda’s Unauthorised (But Balanced) Biography
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEHOmCN4UjQ
    
    1 3
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    November 19, 2025 8:12pm
Swifty

Head of funds management service demands government force New Zealanders to give him their funds to manage!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360892267/super-power-business-heavyweight-calling-compulsory-kiwisaver

Luxon should tell him, yep, it’s a deal on the condition you drop your management fees by two thirds and not change them for the next 20 years.
2 2
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November 19, 2025 5:23pm
Swifty

The government has just banned new prescriptions for puberty blockers for kids.

Nice.

I do note that they’ve dropped considerably over the last 24 months, certainly in the US and UK I believe, so tends to confirm a lot of it was just a fad – a fad that is now wearing off.
5 3
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November 19, 2025 5:40pm
- Swifty
  
  From Brown:
  
  https://x.com/simeonbrownmp/status/1990990534031327459?s=46
  
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  November 19, 2025 5:58pm
- AitchW
  
  Yup. Stop the Munchtranshausen by proxy.
  I saw a post the other day which resonated.
  If you’re over 16 and think you’re trans, you have a mental illness.
  If you’re under 16 and think you’re trans, your mother has a mental illness.
  
  1 1
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  November 19, 2025 8:01pm
graham

Oprah Winfrey’s upcoming Auckland show, which was to have been held at Spark Arena, has been relocated to the Civic theatre.

Spark Arena capacity – up to 12,000
Civic theatre capacity – 2,378

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/oprah-winfrey-show-relocated-to-smaller-auckland-venue-the-civic/6PU67XSBFNGKFHIATQ7BZ773VA/

Maybe the star power of Oprah and the added attraction of being hosted by Hilary Barry just wasn’t enough to convince people to part with $109 – $439?
1 0
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November 19, 2025 8:35pm

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