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November 30, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 November 2025

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General Debate

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Cassandra

I strongly support Israel’s right to defend itself and America’s right to stop drug smuggling.

However, one of the differences between Western civilisation and barbarism is the rule of law. Prisoners, even terrorists, are safe once they’ve surrendered and drug smuggling is not subject to capital punishment without a fair trial.

Recent reports show the commission of crimes. At least one Israeli policeman and one American politician could be facing a trial.
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November 30, 2025 8:01am
- mandk
  
  The drug runners whom the Americans are killing use extremely fast boats that would be almost impossible to stop in open waters.
  
  Morever, the drug runners are armed and would have no hesitation in killing anyone who tried to stop them.
  
  The drug runners have chosen a trade that kills many thousands of Americans each year.
  
  They deserve no mercy. They should be shown no mercy.
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:10am
  - Cassandra
    
    After a strike which destroyed the boat and most of the crew, two were seen clinging to the wreckage. Under Secretary Hegseth’s directive a second rocket killed them. That’s probably a crime.
    
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    November 30, 2025 9:44am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      If the story is true. We’ve all been around long enough to know how this stuff gets “reported”.
      
      Google Pallywood for examples, or the BBC’s Hamas/Gaza documentary.
      
      Maybe the lesson here is don’t go night fishing in boats with 4 200hp engines? Must be some incredible premium on being the first to market with the fish?
      
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      November 30, 2025 10:22am
    - Don Beckett
      
      It’s undeclared warfare by the drug cartels.
      
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      November 30, 2025 11:00am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      @Cassandra
      
      I appreciate your takes in general, given your experience, but where did you get this news from? WaPo? NYT? US ABC?…
      “Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is declining to comment on a report that he ordered the military to kill all passengers aboard a boat suspected of ferrying drugs in the Caribbean Sea in September.”
      
      As Cynical Publius says:
      
      He literally commented on X as did his spokesperson who flatly denied the story.
      
      On X.
      
      Dear God it takes literally fifteen seconds to conclusively demonstrate the falsity of this “report.”
      
      This is true 1970s Soviet-style Pravda stuff.
      
      “Cynical Publius” is a corporate lawyer nowadays but spent years in the JAG office through Iraq and elsewhere.
      
      As noted in other places, the reason the Democrat-MSM complex is screaming this at the top of their lungs today is probably to bury this news…
      
      Firefighters and first responders line the streets of Washington, DC for the dignified transfer of National Guard member Sarah Beckstrom, who was killed in the ambush attack near the White House.
      
      By an Afghani who wasn’t vetted by the Biden Adminstration during their big bugout in 2021.
      
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      November 30, 2025 11:03am
      - Cassandra
        
        Tom: it’s been widely reported. Initially it was WaPo (I know) but lots of others. Is it true? That’s what investigations are for.
        
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        November 30, 2025 11:53am
      - Cassandra
        
        Actually it was the UK Telegraph where I first read about this.
        
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        November 30, 2025 12:03pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        “Widely reported….Lots of others”….
        
        Yeah, this is how I know the MSM spoke the truth on (checks notes)… GW Bush, Iraq, Afghanistan, GFC, Obama, Covid-19, Joe Biden, Trans-issues, Hunter Biden, etc, etc, etc.
        
        Media practice:
        1) Invent ‘controversial’ story using anonymous, unverifiable sources.
        2) Report said story.
        3) Ask for comment, response from story target.
        4) Assert ‘truthiness’ in the absence of acknowledgment, a denial, or ‘no comment.”
        5) Report, “We stand by our story.”
        6) Lather. Repeat. As often as necessary to reinforce The Narrative.
        
        Seriously, how often does the old MSM have to pull these stunts before everybody stops trusting them? I’ll give credit that at least most now have stopped:
        
        How well are the media doing their job of informing Americans? Not very, voters overwhelmingly say. In fact, only one-third (34%) trust traditional media, and six in ten (61%) don’t. A third (32%) say they have “little trust,” and another 29% have “no trust at all.”
        
        “Just think of the media as Democrat Party operatives with bylines, and it all makes sense”
        
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        November 30, 2025 12:08pm
    - CJames
      
      Cassandra – the news reports are probably correct, but who can trust anything nowadays. Covid reporting killed media credibility. Then there are the Pakistani rape gangs. The Gazan situation just confirmed most people’s prejudices about biased news.
      It is now at the situation where one can chose the media to give your truth — confirm one’s biases is a better way of putting it. There seem to be no impartial observers of anything controversial. Why are we in that situation? The untrusted media have only themselves to blame for being as bad as politicians.
      
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      November 30, 2025 12:32pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      Why did you report this as a thing that happened, rather than as a report of a thing that happened?
      A report of a thing is not the thing in itself. The report of a report of a thing is not the report of a thing in itself.
      How many times do I have to point this out?
      
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      November 30, 2025 1:09pm
    - Manu-Rau
      
      Notwithstanding anything Hegseth might have said (or, more likely, what the media claims he said), I think it is highly unlikely that this occurred at all. The individual who actually fired the rocket would be well aware they would be in breach of international law.
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:12pm
    - Paulus
      
      Perhaps they should have saved money by waiting for the harks to have them.
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:12pm
    - cmm
      
      Cassandra is right.
      
      In a war setting, the purpose of an attack is to destroy the enemy’s capability to fight. It is not to kill people that are no longer able to pose a threat.
      
      That said, every force in every conflict has disposed of people in a similar way (eg. executing prisoners that were inconvenient). That is not to condone it in any way.
      
      What is different here is that the USA are doing this so brazenly without any shame in doing so. Most forces were at least somewhat discrete about it.
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:25pm
    - Christopher Thomson
      
      After the first hit the boat was a hazard to shipping.
      
      The second missile was to remove that hazard.
      
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      November 30, 2025 4:29pm
- Philview
  
  The US is dealing with cartels who control governments, have militias and run industrial scale drug production. They have to use military force to destroy the cartels.
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:44am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    And they are saying Venezuelan president runs these cartels
    
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    November 30, 2025 10:10am
  - CrazyIvan
    
    And apparently decide to pardon a former head of state convicted of helping drug trafficking…
    
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    November 30, 2025 12:32pm
- Scott
  
  I also strongly support Israel’s right to defend itself and America’s right to stop drug smuggling.
  
  However I believe that western civilisation is worth fighting for. Israel is in a war and in a war the right of terrorists is very low in the list of priorities. Nor should we expect perfect behaviour from law enforcement in the face of terrorism. I’m just not going to get exercised about the civil rights of terrorists especially considering Israel faces this every day.
  
  Regarding drug smuggling I think blowing up a drug smuggling boat is an excellent idea. It sends a message. If you’re a drug smuggler in charge of a high speed boat then you know you might not live through the night. If it happens enough then drug smuggling suddenly doesn’t seem such a good idea? 🙄
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:45am
  - Cassandra
    
    Are you condoning killing terrorists who have surrendered? The surviving drug smugglers were clinging to the wreckage so a second rocket was fired to kill them. Is that okay?
    
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    November 30, 2025 9:47am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      That’s usually what happens when you fight terrorists, finish them off.
      
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      November 30, 2025 10:12am
      - cmm
        
        Really? When has that ever been condoned?
        
        Sure, it has always happened, but normally people have been at least somewhat discrete about doing so.
        
        In places like Rhodesia and South Africa, the accepted procedure for handling terrorists was to put them before a court of law. If they were found guilty they might be given the option of being “turned” or hanging.
        
        Execution in the field was not the accepted way of doing things although it undoubtedly happened (eg. what do you do with a wounded terrorist that is going to hold up the remainder of a week-long patrol?). Such executions were known to be wrong and were done discretely – not blazed over social media.
        
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        November 30, 2025 3:31pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @cmm
        
        The word you are looking for is discreet
        
        Doing DG’s job here 🙂
        
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        November 30, 2025 4:55pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Waste of a good rocket if it is in fact true.
      
      The sharks will see them off soon enough.
      
      On the other hand rescuing the, taking them to the US, having some bleeding heart lawyer plead their rights, spending millions because Democrat Judges want to play lawfare, and then releasing them into the country because sending them home might be dangerous is not ideal either.
      
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      November 30, 2025 10:25am
      - imalwaysright
        
        Definitely a waste of a rocket.
        A couple of buckets of burley would have been more appropriate.
        Every terrorist and drug dealer in the world should be summarily executed.
        
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        November 30, 2025 12:18pm
    - Scott
      
      Yes
      
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      November 30, 2025 11:19am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        Not very Christian of you Scott.
        
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        November 30, 2025 11:59am
      - virtualmark
        
        80 years ago people were horrified at hearing Japanese and German naval ships had machine-gunned survivors of sinkings. After the war those Japanese and German officers were tried, and executed.
        
        If the WaPo reporting is true (*) then this is either a war crime (if you believe the US is fighting a war against a terrorist group) or simply murder (if you believe the US is acting against a criminal group). Either way it was an unlawful order and the people who gave that order and who executed that order can be charged and tried.
        
        (* I note that very shortly after the event the WaPo report on the Admiral in charge of that fleet resigned, presumably he has full knowledge of what happened and what the law is. I note that the 6 senators who recently warned the military they should not follow illegal orders presumably had good ground to believe illegal orders had been given. And I note that a group of ex-JAG lawyers have provided a comprehensive assessment of this event and presumably they wouldn’t have done that if they didn’t believe the WaPo story is true)
        
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        November 30, 2025 12:59pm
      - Scott
        
        Northshore – thanks for the reminder. 🙄
        I’d just say if you don’t want an American missile to blow up your boat then don’t deal drugs. If you don’t want a second American missile to finish everyone off then don’t smuggle drugs.
        
        In fact this is a good thing because it will discourage people from dealing drugs and turning to a life of crime and it will save many American lives because they won’t have access to drugs which by all accounts is killing thousands and thousands of Americans every year.
        
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        November 30, 2025 1:31pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Northshoredoc @ 11:59AM
        
        Scott has never been anything other than a so-called (right-wing, fundamentalist, evangelical) Christian, Northshoredoc.
        
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        November 30, 2025 2:50pm
      - Ghost
        
        No. It won’t discourage people. The vast majority of drugs into the USA aren’t coming over in these boats. This won’t stop submarines doing their drug runs, this won’t stop the drugs coming through the boarder or the ports.
        
        This is one giant smoke screen distraction.
        
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        November 30, 2025 4:40pm
    - Gary Benner
      
      Just asking, Cassandra, had they actually surrendered, or just abandoned their now inoperative mode of transport?
      
      As I’m sure you will be aware, in warfare, until such time as it is obvious an opposing combatant has given up arms, and presents no viable threat, they are, and must be considered a danger and a legitimate target.
      
      But then again, the media reporting here is highly suspect. The consequence of this however, is that Hegseth’s reputation down in Venuzuela must be greatly improved, showing “no mercy” to the drug runners.
      
      As an aside I believe that the number of boats doing that run has been reduced to zero. Sounds like success to me?
      
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      November 30, 2025 11:46am
      - Cassandra
        
        If there was a second strike and the survivors of the first were clinging to the wreckage then it’s a war crime by my standards. Happy to debate this or any other issue. Civilised people don’t murder defenceless enemies.
        
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        November 30, 2025 11:57am
      - CJames
        
        Cassandra
        If your description is correct, how do we know they were defenceless? Did they have any sidearms or grenades? By your own definitions, armies can’t bomb the enemy’s barracks at night.
        
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        November 30, 2025 12:36pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Gary,
        
        I recommend you read https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/former-jag-working-group-no-quarter-statement.pdf
        
        It’s written by a group of JAG lawyers and lays out all the applicable laws across the Geneva Conventions, The Hague Convention, US civilian law and the US Uniform Code of Military Justice.
        
        The conclusion is “orders to kill survivors of an attack at sea are patently illegal, anyone who issues or follows such orders can and should be prosecuted for war crimes, murder, or both.”
        
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        November 30, 2025 2:07pm
      - AitchW
        
        Cassandra, I’m reminded of WW2 reports of German U boat commanders ordering survivors of their attacks on Allied ships machine gunned in the water.
        I’m inclined to agree with you that firing rockets at drug smugglers in the water is a crime, and to suggest that firing on their boats is, at the very least, a grey area legally.
        However when you look at the homeless folks doing the “Fenty Fold” in American cities, you can’t help but wonder if the end doesn’t justify the means.
        You know the expression variously attributed to both Churchill and Orwell;
        “People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf”.
        Perhaps this is one of those times.
        I’m bloody glad I’m not called on to make those decisions.
        
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        November 30, 2025 2:59pm
      - cmm
        
        Cassandra is correct. Once beligerants are no longer capable of fighting then they should not be executed in the field. They should be taken prisoner.
        
        This is vastly different to bombing barracks. Soldiers in barracks are still an organised force and are still potential belligerents – just as factories and and factory workers are legitimate targets that are contributing to the ability of the enemy to fight.
        
        This is not a moral judgement on terrorism or drug runners or etc. This is just how war works.
        
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        November 30, 2025 3:36pm
      - CJames
        
        cmm
        The actual words that Cassandra wrote were “Civilised people don’t murder defenceless enemies” That is what I was commenting on
        
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        November 30, 2025 4:45pm
      - RichardX
        
        However when you look at the homeless folks doing the “Fenty Fold” in American cities, you can’t help but wonder if the end doesn’t justify the means.
        
        These boats are not carrying fentanyl.
        
        https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2020-03/DEA_GOV_DIR-008-20%20Fentanyl%20Flow%20in%20the%20United%20States_0.pdf
        
        https://www.cfr.org/article/how-does-fentanyl-reach-united-states
        
        https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvg93nn1e6go
        
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        November 30, 2025 6:53pm
    - [email protected]
      
      Would you rather they die a slow death clinging onto the wreck of their boat?
      
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      November 30, 2025 12:40pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      You don’t know that, but you are speaking as though you do.
      You don’t have primary evidence, you don’t even have secondary evidence, at best you have tertiary evidence, a report of a report of the situation.
      NEVER skip the links in the chain of evidence, never treat a report as the thing and never treat a report of a report as a report of the thing.
      
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      November 30, 2025 1:16pm
    - Manu-Rau
      
      I certainly condone killing terrorists, even if they have surrendered. The alternative is to imprison them, and then face further acts of terrorism by others who are trying to secure their release.
      
      Drug dealers……terrorists……kill them. Kill them all. Kill them without mercy or regret. Every last one of them.
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:17pm
      - Sparrow
        
        To some a terrorist to others a freedom fighter. Thatcher called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Dont believe he is called a terrorist today. The zionists who destroyed the King David Hotel were regarded as terrorists by the Arabs and Brits by Jews but not all as freedom fighters. What today are the West Bank illegal settlers considered as freedom fighters or terrorists ?
        
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        November 30, 2025 4:43pm
    - crikey
      
      Clinging to the wreckage = surrender?
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:58pm
    - Christopher Thomson
      
      The second missile was to destroy the boat that was a shipping hazard.
      
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      November 30, 2025 4:27pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Precursor chemicals for Fentynal are manufactured in China, and then refined into the end product in Mexico.
  
  The media have yet to report US military strikes on that particular supply chain.
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:48am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Weren’t they coming through the border in tunnels? Thats why Biden open border was so bad for the US
    
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    November 30, 2025 10:13am
  - James Stephenson
    
    The difference is that the Mexican govt is supporting US action there vs the Venezuelan govt supporting the cartels.
    
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    November 30, 2025 11:06am
  - Jake Dee
    
    The Precursor chemicals for a gigantic number of pharmaceutical are manufactured in China.
    Blaming China for American fentanyl deaths is like blaming the guy who mined and refined the steel, lead and copper that went to the guy who made the gun that went to the man who murdered someone with that gun for that murder.
    
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    November 30, 2025 1:21pm
- KKNZ2025
  
  “Nice country you have here, be a shame if anything happened to it”
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360903544/trump-says-airlines-should-consider-venezuelan-airspace-closed
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:59am
- Wandering Star
  
  “I strongly support Israel’s right to defend itself and America’s right to stop drug smuggling.”
  
  Both of these are just public pretexts repeated constantly to justify all manner of barbarism that most reasonable observers would condemn.
  
  Whether it be sniping ten year old Palestinian “future terrorist” children in the back of the head, or murdering by second strike “drug smugglers” clinging for life to their sinking vessel in the middle of the ocean, these can always be explained away and rationalised by repetition of slogans so a credulous audience who are eager to maintain the essential proposition that all “we” do is always virtuous and in the service 0f right don’t start to question things too much.
  
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  November 30, 2025 11:32am
  - artemisia
    
    I was just wondering what slogans would help the credulous to explain away the abduction of 300 Catholic schoolgirls by Nigerian gunmen last week. And how much repetition would need to be involved. Perhaps it would help if some children’s bodies are found.
    
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    November 30, 2025 12:55pm
- Mike
  
  Deliberate killing of helpless survivors is a war crime. It doesn’t matter whether you call them terrorists or not.
  Even Tom Hunter would agree with that principle – his only quibble is to cast doubt on the reported facts of one specific incident.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:27pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Trying to discover if the event even happened at all is hardly a “quibble” it’s essential.
    
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    November 30, 2025 1:25pm
    - Christopher Thomson
      
      As reported. The second missile was to remove a shipping hazard.
      
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      November 30, 2025 4:48pm
- AJL
  
  Fully agree with this.
  
  If you believe in Rule of law only for people you feel are innocent, you don’t believe in rule of law at all.
  
  If you believe in human rights only for your own side, your don’t believe in human rights at all.
  
  Given the number of Palestinian fatalities this past year, vs the number of Israeli fatalities on Oct 7, there is some serious questions of “proportional response”.
  
  And… given that drug smuggling is not in fact a crime with a death penalty attached (even if you ARE found guilty at trial) then umm…missiles to boats in another countries water space is definitely a flagrant violation of international law.
  Mostly just seems like a stupid political stunt to stroke Trump (or some elses) ego, not an actual coherent plan to reduce drug issues.
  
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  November 30, 2025 1:26pm
  - Christopher Thomson
    
    The concept of a proportional response is facile.
    
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    November 30, 2025 4:49pm
  - Christopher Thomson
    
    The drug boats are part of an organised delivery of weapons of mass destruction. Very much akin to a chemical weapon. Delivered by a designated terrorist organisation.
    
    Ergo, blowing up the boats is not a flagrant violation at all.
    
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    November 30, 2025 4:51pm
    - AJL
      
      Weapons off mass destruction?
      Really?
      
      I’m sure we’ve never seen any American president justify their wars using “Weapons of mass destruction” as the pretext.
      
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      November 30, 2025 9:10pm
- pb
  
  First testament thinking. If you question my motives I can just Amalek you, it’s in the scriptures.
  
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  November 30, 2025 2:01pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  I’m with you on this issue Cassandra.
  
  I find it perverse that some of those crowing about saving western civilisation are the first to celebrate actions which are the complete opposite of one of the major tenets of the western civilisation stands for.
  
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  November 30, 2025 4:19pm
CJames

I see Labour at their conference are back promising Maori sovereignty. “Cushla Tangaere-Manuel, Labour’s sole MP from a Māori electorate set out her party’s pitch to Māori voters saying the country could achieve “the promise of mana motuhake Māori – Māori sovereignty … with a Labour Government”. They also want to entrench the treaty. At least it isn’t a hidden agenda this time but no doubt Willie Jackson is behind it.
No doubt it will all be disavowed by the leader, then if they get in, that story will be changed to they campaigned on it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/mana-motuhake-maori-maori-sovereignty-labour-sets-out-ambitious-pitch-to-win-back-maori-seats/NMN4GN6EOVBI5DY77AFWZCVJKA/
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November 30, 2025 8:01am
- Simon
  
  Labour’s track record on delivery of promises is zero. It is a play for the Maori seats while the Maori Party implode. Its good politics. Labour might deliver on this one though. A Maori centric govt by the dripping wet. All backed by North Korea levels of absurd propaganda.
  
  The North Korea levels of stupid propaganda are already here. Its everywhere.
  
  NZ future will be mildly interesting. A continual slide in third worldism, while having a shrinking productive sector but for now high asset values. That means some retentions of first world structures to enable tax farming for the funding of the decent into mass third worldism.
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:27am
  - pdm
    
    Simon it is not just Labour and the other party’s of the left.
    
    The Public Service is on board because National has not allowed ACT to sort them out properly as per the pre election manifestos of ACT, National and NZFirst.
    
    University lecturers are on board.
    
    A high percentage of School Teachers appear to be on board.
    
    It is indoctrination in full flight.
    
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    November 30, 2025 10:00am
    - Simon
      
      “It is indoctrination in full flight”
      
      No its third worldism practiced across, for what passes for the political spectrum, out of Wellington.
      
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      November 30, 2025 10:28am
    - Paulus
      
      From what we hear it not only the Teachers but very many Mothers are entirely supportive of the Teachers.
      Education is a women’s world remember.
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:19pm
- Dougal10
  
  So are we going to go back to being a maori nation or stay as new zealand . You cant have 2 sovereign nations coexisting in one land. Someone needs to ask hipkins how this will work and will he give up his job to Willie when the time comes.
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:48am
- Yvette
  
  CJames – They also want to entrench the treaty.
  
  The Waitangi Tribunal has found the Crown’s decision to exclude the Treaty from a draft geothermal development strategy would be a Treaty breach.
  The strategy was developed by the Ministry of Business, Innovation, and Employment with the aim of doubling New Zealand’s geothermal energy by 2040.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/580374/leaving-treaty-out-of-geothermal-strategy-a-breach-waitangi-tribunal
  
  Three prime motivations behind the Treaty appear to have been –
  • controlling criminal behaviour of early pioneers
  • the defining of Maori ownership of taonga and stating that if they wish to sell or dispose of those, the Crown should have first option to purchase
  • protection of the realm from French or other colonizers.
  
  When these objectives were achieved, why did the Treaty, a living document, not just die?
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:56am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    To be fair there isn’t much that this coalition or whitey generally can do that’s not a treaty breach as far as the Waitangi Tribunal is concerned. It’s just more white noise from them, excuse the pun.
    
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    November 30, 2025 11:20am
  - PurplePen
    
    Any “Crown obligations” relating to the Treaty exist only because Parliament legislated them (primarily through Treaty of Waitangi Act 1975).
    
    Treaty ceased to have direct legal force after the Constitution Act 1852. New Zealand’s constitutional foundations are Constitution Acts 1852 and 1986. the Treaty isn’t entrenched in either Act. the Treaty has legal effect only where Parliament specifically legislates. And the “Partnership” Concept is Waitangi Tribunal interpretation developed through case law, it’s not found in Treaty text. Articles 1 and 3 describe sovereignty was ceded to Crown and maori made subjects under Crown authority with protections – not co-governance partnership.
    
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    November 30, 2025 12:42pm
  - pb
    
    Waitangi Tribunal must be shut down. Gone way past any legitimacy. Labour or National could champion such a vote winning move, if they weren’t weak. Bassett suggested, let’s concur.
    
    7 1
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    November 30, 2025 2:04pm
  - Paulus
    
    Money is behind the Treaty now, in everything !
    
    5 2
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    November 30, 2025 3:20pm
- Warren Murray
  
  If you’re right, I doubt there will be a democratic process.
  
  I heard Wellington Mayor, Andrew Little, utter some revisionist nonsense yesterday. It was a sound bite from RNZ’s focus on politics. Little was commenting on the Government’s announcement to abolish regional councils. He said that regional councils are vital because they uphold the Treaty’s commitment to give Maori tino rangitingitanga over the whenua; i.e exercising sovereignty over the land.
  
  I presume he refers to article 2 and regardless of which version you use, the TOW doesn’t do that. Nor do Regional Councils act / operate in that way.
  
  Comments like the one u refer to and by Andrew Little are corrosive to cohesive society and represent Labour’s willingness to override private property rights.
  
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  November 30, 2025 9:17am
  - Cassandra
    
    Article 4 refers to regional councils. Article 4 must be several pages now.
    
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    November 30, 2025 9:57am
    - Warren Murray
      
      I know you’re joking, but it was pretty outrageous invention stuff by Little. Typical of the left. The Treaty is sacred and lies are justified, etc.
      
      Btw, I understood article 4 was about religion.
      
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      November 30, 2025 11:29am
      - R
        
        Article 4……religion! The TOW is a religion, isn’t it?
        
        4 2
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        November 30, 2025 12:55pm
      - Cassandra
        
        For clarity, Article 4 is the 11th Commandment.
        
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        November 30, 2025 4:52pm
  - Paulus
    
    Are you saying the Little as Mayor of New Zealand’s Capital City is corrosive – well that’s new too.
    
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    November 30, 2025 3:22pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Just the excuse Peter’s needs to go with Labour Greens and TPM
  
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  November 30, 2025 10:15am
  - pdm
    
    G if Peters jumps that way it will be a Labour/NZFirst Coalition with Greens and what is left of the Maori Party giving confidence and supply I would think.
    
    9 2
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    November 30, 2025 10:38am
    - Colville
      
      Peters only needs NZF/Lab to be more than Nat/ACT as TPM and Green will never vote against Labour.
      
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      November 30, 2025 12:00pm
- rouppe
  
  If like to hear Labor articulate what that Maori sovereignty looks like in practice.
  
  Maori have property rights.
  Maori have at least equal access to all public services, when you compare them to non Maori in similar circumstances.
  Maori have better access to medical services.
  Maori have better access to tertiary education.
  Maori have no restrictions on ownership, emigration, anything I can think of.
  
  So what does sovereignty look like? Fencing off areas to be autonomously controlled in the tribal way?
  
  It had certainly better include none of my money being siphoned off for their purposes.
  
  Sovereignty should start to look like what is being discussed with the Cook Islands. Complete separating from the rest of taxpayers.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:01pm
  - PurplePen
    
    “Fencing off areas to be autonomously controlled in the tribal way?”. It must have been that way way back when. Have a look at section 71 of the New Zealand constitution ACT 1852 below. The words to note here are “should for the present” … the arrangement was temporary. And the act was repealed in 1986.
    
    71. And Whereas it may be expedient that the laws, customs, and usages of the aboriginal or native inhabitants of New Zealand, so far as they are not repugnant to the general principles of humanity, should for the present be maintained for the government of themselves, in all their relations to and dealings with each other, and that particular districts should be set apart within which such laws, customs, or usages should be so observed:
    
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    November 30, 2025 12:46pm
  - Cantabrian
    
    The challenge in giving Maori defined areas of the country would be tribal discontent. I just cant see Ngapui ageeing that Northland be Maori sovereig territory unless they had absolute control. What would their relationship with Tainui be like?
    Ya dreamin Mate!
    
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    November 30, 2025 3:21pm
- Paulus
  
  I hope Labour do put this foward at the Election as Policy
  – no bloody fear they will not even if they support it.
  More crap !
  
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  November 30, 2025 3:16pm
CJames

This is the type of law needed in NZ – Professional bodies being not allowed to discipline members for personal views expressed outside the work practices. What used to be called free speech.
https://www.junonews.com/p/alberta-tables-peterson-law-protecting?r=14hbug&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true
Of course Alberta is a very conservative, freethinking province that gets a lot of its wealth from fossil fuels and now minerals. They aren’t the stereotypical liberal Canadians. The 2024 election ousted Pierre Poilievre went back into Canadian parliament by winning a by-election there with 80% of the vote They hate the woke behaviour of Ottawa and are seriously looking at breaking away from the Canadian Federation and joining US. Them and maybe Saskatchewan coming into US would certainly change that Senate. Would also destroy a lot of Canada’s wealth that the rest of the country regard as a bottomless piggy bank. A similar situation to Western Australia where there is a lot of resentment that they pay for the east coast’s urban liberals wishlists.
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November 30, 2025 8:08am
- MCōs
  
  According to the information in this article if a referendum was held in Alberta regarding separation it wouldn’t even be close
  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-janet-brown-may-2025-poll-separation-sentiment-1.7544074
  
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  November 30, 2025 8:32am
  - CJames
    
    Yes, currently separatism isn’t a goer but if Carney clamps down on tar sands, things could change markedly. See how actions under UCP 54 get on.
    
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    November 30, 2025 8:59am
- Steve Todd
  
  It is possible for Alberta to separate from Canada, but the process would be long, uncertain, and fraught with difficulty.
  
  Independence for Alberta won’t happen anytime soon, if ever. See https://www.constitutionalstudies.ca/2019/07/a-long-and-uncertain-road-to-alberta-independence/?print=print.
  
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  November 30, 2025 9:08am
Ra Henare

And meanwhile in The West Bank. Life continues.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-many-chilling-aspects-of-video-showing-israeli-forces-killing-two-palestinians-after-apparent-surrender-13476725

The killings come amid a wider surge of West Bank raids and displacements, with more than 1,000 Palestinians killed and about 32,000 residents displaced in the northern West Bank since January.
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November 30, 2025 8:13am
- Christopher Thomson
  
  It looks bad but until further detail is available I will tend to disregard anything by the unbiased and truthful media.
  
  And I shall now wait for all the stories about the slaughter of the one thousand two hundred Israeli citizens to get as much detailed exposure on the truthful and unbiased media.
  
  I will not hold my breath and wait for the reporter to breathlessly describe the murder of the Israeli woman who was shot in the back as she was kneeling down with her hands up.
  
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  November 30, 2025 5:11pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    Believe whatever you want to believe.
    
    I am just pointing out that killing by Israelis troops/police continues. ON an almost daily basis, while the slaughter you refer to was a one off that has been and continues to be often in MSM.
    
    By the way, the slaughter you refer to was launched out of Gaza, not the West Bank.
    
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    November 30, 2025 11:13pm
BarryB

Re Ukraine. Well it looks like the only outcome that was possible from day 1 is coming to pass.
From the day that Ukraine requested NATO membership it was mostly obvious that Russia would react pretty much as they did.
Eastern Ukraine is ethnically Russian, speaks Russian and had been fighting for separation for years before Russia invaded.
The only losers are the people of Ukraine (- and Russian soldiers). Theyve had much of their country destroyed and many lives lost and their furures destroyed. Zelensky (sp?) will disappear to some rat bag country taking his billions.
The winners will be those eastern ukranians who wanted out of Ukraine.
Russia will also win with some of the worlds most production farmland in their control – and some valuable resources.
The big unknown will be the uselessness of the EU leaders. Much bluster but nothing worthwhile…….
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November 30, 2025 8:28am
- MCōs
  
  Today there’s been a discussion on Canadian separatism, Maori separatism and Ukrainian separatism
  Time to move on to the reunification of China and Ireland
  I’ll start
  Worst thing British ever did to Ireland was divide it in two along religious lines. Well, it was one of the many worst things they did
  
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  November 30, 2025 10:05am
  - mogg
    
    Well you have started in the wrong place, you should find out the facts first. The NI border was set up as a temporary measure to allow the Protestant North time to accept the fact that a united Ireland was the only way forward.
    
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    November 30, 2025 12:28pm
  - mandk
    
    Ireland wasn’t divided along religious lines.
    
    There’s no reference to God in the full names of the IRA or the UVF. Nor in Sinn Fein or the Ulster Democratic Party.
    
    The divide is between republicans and unionists.
    
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    November 30, 2025 1:29pm
  - Jack5
    
    Irish genes
    
    England, Wales and Scotland have been destinations for Irish emigrants for centuries, though the attraction has declined since the economic boom in the Irish Republic from the mid-1990s.
    
    As many as one in 10 people in Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales) are entitled to an Irish Republic passport, according to Wikipedia. That, is one in 10 English, Scottish, and Welsh people have an Irish grandparent.
    
    The number of Irish-born people in England in 2021 was equivalent to 6.1 per cent of the Republic of Ireland population and 10 per cent of the Northern Irish population.
    
    This compares, for example, with New Zealanders in Australia. In June 2024, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there were 618,000 New Zealand-born people in Australia’s population of 27.2 million. That’s about 2.2 per cent of Australia’s population, or about 11.6 per cent of NZ’s then population.
    
    The big flow of people from New Zealand to Australia includes a strong proportion of people from the Third World using NZ as a back door. These folk can enter Australia when they attain NZ “residency,” but they aren’t included in the Australian numbers of NZ born.
    
    Links:
    
    Irish in Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales):
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_people_in_Great_Britain
    
    New Zealand born in Australia:
    
    https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/australias-population-country-birth/latest-release
    
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    November 30, 2025 2:23pm
    - MCōs
      
      Ireland was part of the UK for the nineteenth century and into the twentieth, so therefore the Irish couldn’t have been emigrants within their own country over that period.
      Btw
      It take more than NZ residency to obtain Australian residency. One must have NZ citizenship in the example you put forward and that’s not easy. Without knowing all the ins & outs it may be easier to go directly to Oz than jump through all the hoops necessary to obtain NZ citizenship
      
      2 1
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      November 30, 2025 5:30pm
- Handyman
  
  The US has nothing more to gain from the war. Ukraine has weakened Russia so much Europe should be able to hold them at bay allowing USA to focus on China. But if Ukraine buckles, Putin will keep going and capture all of Ukraine. It is time to call it quits.
  
  Europe, on the other hand, is prepared to keep having meetings until the last Ukrainian soldier.
  
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  November 30, 2025 10:08am
  - MCōs
    
    When you say ‘allowing USA to focus on China”, what do you mean?
    
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    November 30, 2025 5:33pm
- losingtheplot
  
  The past is a funny thing. I don’t see it this way at all. My recollection is that once the chance to roll up the whole country was missed then the smart money was on a protracted stalemate which is pretty much what happened.
  
  If you only list Putinbot talking points then it’s a magnificent win for Russia with everything having been a fait-accompli from the beginning. If only the Ukraine had rolled over and welcomed their liberators this could all have been avoided. NATO planned this all along and provoked the conflict by *insert anything here. I’d go with jewish space lasers myself*.
  
  Except . . . the Ukraine will still largely exist. Clearly not on the day 1 plan.
  
  Nato expanded and added Finland and Norway, who seem to be worried about something. I wonder what. Not a day 1 outcome anyone predicted.
  
  Europe faced up to the realisation that its woefully unprepared for a shooting war and that they can’t rely on the USA forever. Ukraine gave the rest of Europe enough time to do something about it.
  
  Finally, the wolves in sheep’s clothing revealed themselves to be what they always have been. The vision of a multipolar world sold by the wolves is the old world that existed before pax americana – dog eat dog and let the biggest dog win. I am saddened by its return.
  
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  November 30, 2025 1:54pm
- pb
  
  Too big a target. Can’t hide now, too many billions, too much cocaine. Yermak, the fixer, gone to CIA to receive new instructions. Russia has a clear run to the Dnipro River & Odessa. Trump frigged around, now has no time, and is panicked into 99 point plans.
  
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  November 30, 2025 2:08pm
- NothingLeft
  
  A large percentage of ethnically Russian Ukranian men in occupied areas have been pressganged into Russian army and are consequently dead. Their industry, infrastructure and agriculture is wrecked as is critical long distance irrigation water distribution that will take a decade to repair. There are no ‘winners’ in eastern Luhansk or Donbas.
  
  Russian economy is stuffed, reserves all gone, industry collapsed, millions more on welfare, and there is a huge debt in infrastructural maintenance and destruction that will take a long time to fix up. If war stops today it will take Russia 5-10 years to recover, and even then the demographic issues they’ve created, including millions of most talented young Russians who fled overseas make that recovery perhaps impossible.
  
  Putin’s ego has hastened Russia’s inevitable demise.
  
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  November 30, 2025 2:41pm
cmm

So long as he was at attention, who cares?

Sending dick picks is not illegal.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360902290/army-boss-sent-d-pic-uniform-it-didnt-stop-him-getting-top-job
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November 30, 2025 8:44am
- Yvette
  
  Defence Minister Judith Collins was informed by the Chief of Army under the no surprises policy following Stuff’s questions this week. “I am comfortable that it was handled appropriately,” she said.
  
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  November 30, 2025 9:01am
- Philview
  
  I think it shows poor judgement for a senior military officer.
  
  14 1
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  November 30, 2025 9:10am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Clearly, a poor choice of partners.
    
    6 1
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    November 30, 2025 9:32am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Yes, school yard teenager stuff.
    Look at me, look at me, look at me (and my d..k).
    Pathetic.
    
    7 1
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    November 30, 2025 11:31am
- Mike
  
  Is it your view that only illegal actions should attract serious sanctions from an employer?
  
  8 12
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  November 30, 2025 9:25am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Freedom of “speech” and all that.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:36pm
- pb
  
  Epstein pics. NZ version of Waishapt blackmail.
  
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  November 30, 2025 2:10pm
leoj

The Herald changing course after the board change has not taken place.

The newspaper remains a far left, Labour-Greens-Part Maori parties supporter.

The rich Canadian should be asking questions of the new board. The paper needs another shake up but this time for real.

Former National Mr Fixit Steven Joyce has failed. What is it with disappointing National these days?
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November 30, 2025 8:45am
- Ra Henare
  
  If you look at everything with a biased eye. You will confirm your bias.
  
  Remember, everything looks like a nail to the man who only has a hammer.
  
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  November 30, 2025 4:37pm
- Ra Henare
  
  https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/new-zealand-herald/
  
  So a foreign agency says slightly right??
  
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  November 30, 2025 4:52pm
imalwaysright

The Defense Minister is “comfortable that it was handled appropriately”-article.
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November 30, 2025 9:11am
- pdm
  
  Dare I ask – who was handling what?
  
  8 1
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  November 30, 2025 10:05am
  - MCōs
    
    Somebody’s dick, apparently.
    Btw
    The correct spelling is defence.
    Defense is the American variant and the dick in question is attached to Colonel Brendon Jull of the NZDF
    The official response was nothing to see here
    What a laugh.
    
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    November 30, 2025 10:24am
    - imalwaysright
      
      I hope Defence take some prophylactic measures to ensure this doesn’t happen again…
      
      2 0
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      November 30, 2025 12:01pm
- Yvette
  
  Plans and actions should be kept as “dark and impenetrable as night”. Information regarding the army’s equipment is a critical secret that must be protected.
  Sun Tzu would consider the disclosure of one’s actual level of weapons a grave strategic error that violates the fundamental principles of warfare and deception.
  
  Defence Minister Judith Collins was informed by the Chief of Army under the no surprises policy following Stuff’s questions this week. It probably also fully informs the enemy of the nature of one’s armaments which in Sun Tzu’s Book would be unforgivable. And there is a good chance that any near future possible opponent of New Zealand is reasonably well versed in the Art Of War.
  
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  November 30, 2025 10:39am
G the giant from Dunedin

I see Vance is trying to keep the bullshit alive. What is with these muppets, after CGT did not go the way Labour wanted, they say that there was a war inside Labour, why did not one media lackey not mention this?

Looks like Hipkins is none to happy with unionists being foisted spin him with Wood and Renny being thrust into the fire, Hipkins appears to be cold on both, he knows unionists will stuff things up.

Good though that Renny is up against one of the Grrenie electorate MPs, and his stronger vote may well split the left vote to let someone else come through the front door
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November 30, 2025 10:26am
- Warren Murray
  
  I laughed when I read Vance’s piece too. She must be very dim indeed to argue that a policy announcement by the PM in Upper Hutt somehow put a shot across Bishop’s bow. I’d argue it was poking his main opponent, Hipkins, who is the member of Rimutaka (Upper Hutt).
  
  The other story that the Herald is putting around is National has settled on a compromise where Luxon will resign if National’s polling reaches the mid 20s. They’d deserve everything they get if they wait that long.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:20pm
  - AitchW
    
    On the topic of Labour, I heard Hipkins criticising the government for its lack of delivery on policy it (National) is announcing for after the election, suggesting they should implement it now.
    I wonder if even one of his advisers suggested that perhaps he needs to keep quiet on the subject of delivery given his government’s less than stellar performance on delivery of policy during its 6 long, long years in power….
    
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    November 30, 2025 3:10pm
  - Paulus
    
    Typical Vance, utter bullshit first and foremost – she must say something, even if it is just her usual lies.
    How pathetic !
    
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    November 30, 2025 3:27pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360903547/chris-bishop-behind-failed-national-leadership-coup-report

This article is just rubbish: there is no evidence any “coup” has been attempted, it is simply Andrea Vance stirring, speculating, insinuating and assuming.
Just the latest in a long line of left-wing MSM attempts to get rid of Luxon, who is doing a great job and they know it.
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November 30, 2025 10:30am
- R
  
  Vnce, as usual I supporting Labour. Remember that this weekend is the Labour conference, they crave credibility and support
  
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  November 30, 2025 10:38am
- lifesgood
  
  Seems to be quite a few on this blog sucked in by Vance’s nonsense, though.
  
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  November 30, 2025 10:44am
  - AitchW
    
    Not just on this blog. There are plenty of voters sucked in by Vance and the rest of the media’s constant anti government utterances.
    
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    November 30, 2025 3:11pm
- pdm
  
  Still gb I don’t recall seeing much from Vance over the last 6 months.
  
  Did she hibernate during winter?
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:55pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I think she was breeding
    
    4 3
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    November 30, 2025 4:09pm
- greybeard
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360903682/anatomy-failed-coup
  This article has superseded the one I linked above: check out the last line !
  “* An earlier news story based on this column has been retracted.”
  No wonder, it was garbage.
  
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  November 30, 2025 4:23pm
Flossie

I may well be a lone voice on this, but here goes anyway.
I am well over reading about Liam Lawson on what seems a daily basis….eg The F1 driver from New Zealand is going to start 17th on the grid at the XYZ race… Put him on the front page when he does something a bit special.
There’s no doubt there are hundreds of aspiring NZ sportspeople (who aren’t in line for big paydays either) doing their bit out there and never get a mention even on page 12.
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November 30, 2025 11:33am
- Greenheart
  
  I so agree with you. If you want to torture yourself further listen to Mike Hosking on ZB. He goes on at length on an almost daily basis praising Lawson. Grrr.
  
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  November 30, 2025 11:58am
  - Inandout
    
    Green, Mike goes off for his 2 month break next Friday so there is your rest from Lawson. You can do that when you have zero breakfast radio competition.
    
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    November 30, 2025 2:18pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      I’m so looking forward to his break, Inny. I laughed and laughed and laughed when Christopher Luxon asked him, “when are you back, May?”
      
      The six-to-nine slot is so much better when Hosking’s fill-in (whoever it might be) is in the chair.
      
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      November 30, 2025 4:50pm
- greybeard
  
  Sometimes one has to sit back and think about things to get the proper perspective.
  
  There are ten Formula One teams – each team has 2 drivers.
  Therefore there are only 20 F1 drivers at any given time.
  
  NZ has again produced one of those drivers, Liam Lawson.
  
  He has achieved something which is out of all proportion to the size of the country, the amount of money available to be spent on motorsports, the infrastructure, the geographical disadvantages of NZ, international exchange rates, number of wealthy sponsors, etc etc.
  
  He has in fact continued a habit, a tradition, of NZ producing world-class motorsport drivers.
  
  Most of us are proud of him.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:07pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    With you on this one greybeard, the profile he has, being only one driver of 20 globally in the F1, the billions of spectators globally, the salary he is earning all indicate he is deserving of a high profile. Once the hundreds of up and coming athletes get his sort of profile they will get the coverage.
    
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    November 30, 2025 12:23pm
  - Paulus
    
    Are we ?
    – I do not think of him in any way as successful !
    I expect him to get the DCM very shortly after this current race.
    
    3 4
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    November 30, 2025 3:29pm
    - Hugh Jarse
      
      You miss the point Paulus, the mere fact he has succeeded in getting into the top 20 is a success on its own. Not every driver in that 20 will go on to be a champion like Hamilton or Verstappen. He may get the DCM but he has done a helluva lot better than many others before him.
      
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      November 30, 2025 3:48pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  The main problem for Liam Lawson is that he is consistently outperformed by his teammate. I’d say he’s almost certainly for the chop
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:39pm
- pdm
  
  Agreed Flossie.
  
  It seems Lawson is no McLaren, Amon or Hulme or even a Dixon.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:56pm
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    Well he certainly hasn’t had the 13 years or so of racing at high level yet that those drivers did to cement their records. Hopefully he will get another chance to perform this coming season and be on the way to be another kiwi driver along with those you quote we can be proud of.
    
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    November 30, 2025 2:52pm
Biscuit

You’re definitely not alone, Flossie!
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November 30, 2025 11:51am
- pdm
  
  Biscuit you have emerged.
  
  With Liverpool in the doldrums and plumes of black smoke seen near your part of Chippies electorate yesterday I was nearly worried about you.
  
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  November 30, 2025 12:58pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    13th in the table at time of writing.
    
    Lucky for some.
    
    2 0
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    November 30, 2025 4:11pm
Sparrow

Another sporting story but sad. What has happened to Welsh rugby? Beaten 73-0 by the Boks. Where are the Barry John’s, Gareth Edwards, JPR ? As a cockney kid in the 1950s our school unusually played rugby our 1st 15 travelled annually to South Wales and got their arse kicked in front of hundreds, were only use to a crowd of a man and a dog which usually ran off. Why has it gone so wrong? Sad
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November 30, 2025 12:46pm
- Colville
  
  and what about the eye gouge from the Saffer? Eben could be on the sideline for a long long time.
  To me he it looks as tho he has twisted the thumb into the eye after contact… If it’s deemed deliberate he could get a couple of year ban. Minimum is 24 weeks.
  
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  November 30, 2025 5:00pm
- Christopher Thomson
  
  And the Boks were their usual arrogant grubs.
  
  Nothing like a bit of eye-gouging to cement the best in the world attitude.
  
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  November 30, 2025 5:01pm
- MCōs
  
  I read that this weekend is outside some window and their already weak side has lost some of their better blokes.
  
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  November 30, 2025 6:33pm
Swifty

Walkabout in space:

https://x.com/drewpavlou/status/1994739927079350457?s=46

Its funny, this all seems strangely familiar….
4 1
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November 30, 2025 12:51pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  This is just too perfect, from The Right Stuff (1983) – “You bloke do that too?
  
  Of course the greatness of that scene comes later when John Glenn encounters his “fireflies”.
  
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  November 30, 2025 4:43pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Another culturally appropriating academic rort
  
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  November 30, 2025 6:29pm
AJL

Yo, a fun little 30 minute interview with Sir Bill English from a few days ago:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/580011/30-with-guyon-espiner-sir-bill-english-believes-christopher-luxon-will-lead-national-to-election-victory
2 1
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November 30, 2025 1:27pm
Steve Todd

Did anyone see the Jack Tame interview with Barbara Edmonds this morning?

If so, did you notice how he gave her a hard time? Right-wing political bias, or what?
4 2
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November 30, 2025 2:31pm
- imalwaysright
  
  She said that the improving economy and people being happier was just going to make her job that much more difficult because they may vote for National !
  
  Even Tame couldn’t believe it.
  
  8 3
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  November 30, 2025 3:05pm
- Swifty
  
  Sorry Steve, isn’t it his role to give all pollies ‘a hard time’, grilling them on their policies?
  
  Asking the tough questions?
  
  3 1
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  November 30, 2025 4:51pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Yes, Swifty, it is! That was my point.
    
    I was hoping it was obvious that I was parodying Chuck Bird, who, pointedly, didn’t post his usual comment yesterday. And we all know why, don’t we?
    
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    December 1, 2025 8:31am
Steve Otto N Shore

Will this link work?
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1A8Rx8qRJc/
NZ is becoming seriously fucked up.
2 7
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November 30, 2025 3:14pm
- MCōs
  
  Posted by a self described Satire expert
  Not you Steve, rather Bignigel
  
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  November 30, 2025 7:04pm
surfing

Hmm, judge says of a bashing…
““One of those young men had a significant head injury. It’s luck that he didn’t die”

Sounds like a decade in prison could easily be warranted. Vicious and unprovoked bashing.

However, in the end the judge didn’t think it too serious, sentencing this vicious woman to 9 months home detention.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/raglan-road-rage-couple-launch-brutal-attack-on-teens-after-bridge-stand-off/2KIXM3XROFFDVJE7FTZQE6CLO4/
4 1
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November 30, 2025 5:48pm

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