Crimes police will respond to?
March 30th, 2005 at 9:45 am by David FarrarWe are getting a growing list of crimes the Police are too busy to respond to:
We already know that they are too busy to follow up on thieves, despite being caught on camera.
We today also find out that they are too busy to respond to reports of a grossly drunk driver, despite the driver being followed to make it easy for them. They passed a police car ticketing another driver for presumably speeding.
But we also find out that even being raped does not get immediate police attention, with nine rape cases in Auckland yet to be investigated.
Previously also dead bodies washed up on the beach did not get a quick response either.
So I’m really stuck as to whether there are any crimes at all that guarantee immediate police attention. Oh yeah there are three:
* Driving at 111 km/hr on an open road
* Putting up an unauthorised billboard of the PM
* Sticking up posters on a Labour Minister’s office
Anyone else had additions to either the list of crimes which do not get attention or the list of crimes which do get priority?
No tag for this post.
March 30th, 2005 at 10:01 am
Actually we called 111 last night and I have to say the police got her really, really fast complete with dogs.
I was very happy with their services.
Mads
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:07 am
Rapid response to the crime of sedition, or sticking an axe through the P.M.s electoral office window (same thing apparently).
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:11 am
Called police because a creepy guy turned up on our doorstep last night a bit before midnight and when Matt looked through the peephole and said “who is there? the guy said “sorry mate, wrong house” and backed away from the door. Then we noticed someone darting around our section under our trees, our 3 year old was woken up by some noise outside his bedroom window and that was enough for me.
The police were fabulous, prompt answer to the call, immediate patrol car and dog, thorough search of property and interviews with neighbours.
We slept soundly.
Madeleine
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:21 am
Can James account for his whereabouts last night?
Note that is a joke – don’t sue me!!
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:53 am
The Police prioritise their activities by which are the most serious, and then the easiest first.
I believe there is quite a difference between the frontline cop and the detective working on solving a case, so the fact that rapes have not yet been investigated probably has little to do with the amount of Speed Cameraring the Police do.
Of course we want everything to be solved instantly, but the fact remains that some of those crimes are too difficult to solve, or have been reported falsely.
We don’t know the reasons why some of these crimes are not being investigated, I don’t think we’ll ever find out why for most of them, but there are probably good explanations why that don’t revolve around lack of resources.
As for more policing – is there anything National hasn’t promised to increase spending on? More transport, More Police, More of this and that and tax cuts to boot. Its getting to be a joke, is the National party going to co-ordinate its policies or just make up more spending every time a media oppurtunity presents itself???
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:58 am
I just saw on scoop the Police offered $20,000 fro information leading to the capture of a rapist.
I can’t imagine them being under-resourced if they are capable of offering that.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3232271a11,00.html
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 11:06 am
I’m sure the operational decisions the police make about the use of their resources is pretty sound – but that’s why this is a government issue. The Police are recieving funding for ‘speed spotter’ planes and told to spend us much time as possible prosecuting driver offenses because that’s a good source of revenue, so the government make sure those facilities are resourced well because they see it as an investment. There’s no money in catching murderers and rapists, so there’s less resources available for investigating those cases.
It’s a disgrace, but I can’t help finding it funny that ACT are objecting to the situation, as this seems like a perfect illustration of market forces.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 11:11 am
I’m jolly glad to see Stephen Cooper has all the answers. Clearly we don’t need any cops. All you have to do is keep offering bigger and bigger rewards for each case and eventually the bros will frog march the guilty bastards into the nearest “police station.” Oops, I meant “Perpetrators’ Reception Centre.” That’s how you outsource policing.
SC, you blokes are stuffed and no amount of huffing and puffing will work. Its all too late.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 11:19 am
Crimes the police respond to: Speeding through South Canterbury (if you are a police officer)
Crimes the police don’t respond to: Speeding through South Canterbury (if you are the Prime Minister)
Madeleine: It was Jim Peron
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 11:31 am
The police will make debt collection a priority, if the debt is owed to a cabinet minister. And use of a tractor as a prop in a political campaign will attract more than a “thanks, but we’re too busy” letter.
For a population of 200,000 people, NT has a police strength of just under a thousand. Per head, about three times that of NZ. And we’re recruiting 200 additional officers, which is the equivalent of the NZ police recruiting 4,000 extra police. They have a large area to cover, but NZ is still looking under-resourced IMHO.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 11:37 am
Dim: “It’s a disgrace, but I can’t help finding it funny that ACT are objecting to the situation, as this seems like a perfect illustration of market forces.”
Not really. ACT believe in removing government from things it shouldn’t be involved directly in (like setting up loss making banks), and making sure it is focussed on the things it should be doing, like enforcing the laws it has passed, and providing for defence of the country. I don’t think you will find any examples where ACT suggests policing should be subject to market forces.
Yes, there is a certain amount of political point-scoring here, and probably some of these cases have good reason for not being dealt with immediately. But this is politics, and the government has been happily trumpeting the favourable bits of the crime statistics whilst wilfully ignoring the bits that aren’t so favourable. There really isn’t a lot of moral high ground here for them to stand on.
The bottom line is that they have resourced sufficiently for the police to undertake revenue gathering activities, and clearly the police do not have enough staff available at certain times to respond to genuine crimes that look genuinely solveable. Can’t hide from those facts.
I also see here a classic government failing. In many sectors it is well accepted that early intervention both improves citizen outcomes, and reduces costs. So, for example, in child welfare it is well established that intervening early before family issues become child abuse greatly reduces the impact on the child, allows the family to be held together, and reduces the likelihood of future behavioural issues (such as youth offending). However, the actual implementation of policy in this area is to prioritise inbound work based on the severity of the case – deal with the worst abused children first, and ignore the low priority cases if we run out of time. At the front-line this obviously makes sense, and it would be hard to argue for anything else, but it goes directly against the logic above that early intervention works better.
Or consider the health system. Providing health care early reduces the severity of the problem, lets people get back to work earlier so they can pay their taxes, reduces pain and suffering, and generally costs less. But what we actually do is run a waiting list and provide service only when the condition deteriorates sufficiently to be life threatening. Again, given the environment being worked in this makes sense – deal with the patients with life threatening conditions first – but it is again directly against the early intervention theory discussed above.
Policing is simply another example. It is established theory that catching criminals on their first crime, before they embark on a life of crime, greatly reduces their chance of future offending, and allows opportunities for rehabilitation that simply don’t exist for someone who is only caught after multiple crimes. Also, Stephen Franks point is valid: that most criminals are gamblers, and what impacts their behaviour is changing the odds – greater certainty of getting caught, greater certainty of rapid action (whether that be prosecution or diversion). Again, the actual behaviour at the coal face is to address the most serious crimes first, again this is logical at the coal face and hard to argue with, but again doesn’t fit the theory.
What do we do about this? Dunno, it seems to require structural change to address it – more funding doesn’t seem to have worked.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 12:32 pm
Assault – although that might have been before Labour came into power. It was early hours of Saturday morning and there were no units available as there were two fights occuring in various parts of the city – point is that there will always be a time when the police simply cannot make it.
However, this excuse wears thin when the govt is making decisions as to where the budget goes.
On a positive note I am aware of an incident in Hagley park where weird guy approached a female walking her dog and began to make lewd suggestions and generally be intimidating. She rightly got on the bat phone and had a very prompt response – a nearby jogger also helped out chasing the guy down (he was on a bike) and holding him until Police arrived. The Police observed that they were unsure as to what had happened prior to their arrival (bad guy was slightly damaged) but seemed content to leave it at that!
There has been some dumb stuff by Police (although if a Cabinet minister asks them to do something they are put in a lose-lose situation) but this is a Government issue. Not that the government has noticed.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 1:00 pm
Has it been confirmed that serious crimes are going uninvestigated, or are we still in the “alleged in parliament, reported in the media, and made into a fact by David Farrar” stage?
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 1:39 pm
Yeah, nice johnie. Do you apply the same rules to things reported in the media that are favourable to your chosen party?
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 2:13 pm
I have called 111 twice recently; both times the police arrived quickly and were efficient and professional.
PaulL: I thought your earlier post about prevention was very thoughtful. Thanks.
I wonder though if you’re dismissing Johnie a bit too casually (even though he was asking for it). If I include myself, two people in this thread have described personal dealings with the police, and we have both reported satisfactory outcomes. Everyone else is commenting on third-hand stories in the media, which are news because they are exceptional (exceptionally bad, prehaps, but still not routine), and likely to be reported with a bias towards sensationalism.
Gordon
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 3:23 pm
Gordon, fair cop. I usually try to be constructive, but sometimes it is so much less work to just be bitchy. I promise to try harder.
On the police, I would be very surprised if most people weren’t having good experiences with the police. I guess the question is what standard of service we expect – is it that the Police turn up to crimes “most of the time”? There is certainly a recent history of cabs being sent, people told to walk down the station etc. They seem to me to be indicative of underresourcing.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 4:06 pm
With respect to the grossly drunk driver David mentioned..It would take a cop at least two hours to apprehend and process the driver. If he was behind with his quota he might be reluctant to respond to a call when he could be issuing a speeding ticket every ten mins. George Hawkins claims Counties Manukau Police have reduceds crime in their area by 11% in the past year and increased resources.The arithmetic shows up their shonky statistics. Greg O’Connor the Union man says the Police strength increased by 365 over the past year but 283 were designated for Traffic Duties. The administration at District and National level is a disgrace.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 4:09 pm
I wait until I know the facts before I make a judgement, especially where national or act mps are involved in making stories.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 4:37 pm
What about Labour or Green MPs Johnie?, or do they get a free pass from you?
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 4:39 pm
Gordon Paynter – Three of my four recent experiences with cops have been bad. All in Auckland.
The only one which was ‘good’ was a traffic infringement for which the cop car had three (!!!!) cops sitting on their arses in it, and one young guy writing me the ticket (my bad).
One month later I was faced with a violent confrontation between my neighbour and his ex-partner (just down the road from the traffic infringement), and the 111 woman said it would be 25 minutes before a cop would be available – unless a knife or worse was involved.
Half a year later some neighbours blew up an LPG or similar tank, the fire service and the cop helo turned up but again no cops, until it was too late for them to be any use.
One year later, myself and two friends were approached by two youngish cops just off Queen Street (across from the Police downtown station in fact). One of them took an aggressive dislike to one of my friends and it was all downhill from then. He was all hyped up and heavy breathing etc. I’ve had better treatment from boguns in Gore.
All of these were in Auckland City (not Manukau/sth Auckland). I’ve never really had a bad experience with cops outside of greater Auckland – they always seem polite, friendly, prompt.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 5:49 pm
Top priority is any crime (traffic) that brings in revenue for the Police because they are under Treasury instructions to generate a certain amount of revenue. Anything that is complex and uses up a lot of Police resources gets a low priority. To be fair the Police get it right nearly all the time and all their actions have to be justified in a Court in public. The media are obsessed with what they call news which means anything that is news hence they only focus on something that has gone wrong, and leave the vast majority of cases where things have been done right and professionally.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 5:53 pm
Humour moment for the day
“I wait until I know the facts before I make a judgement, especially where national or act mps are involved in making stories.” – johnie
guess things will be pretty quiet round here now that Johnie won’t be back
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 5:58 pm
Isn’t johnie really Mark Prebble? Hasnt johnie been making prudish comments about the number of sexual innuendo posts by Farrar?
Or was that some other prudish Labourite…
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 6:16 pm
It was revealed today that the majority of the unassigned rape cases are investigations that are waiting for the results of forensic tests, or were laid by women who are out of the country.
This story was instigated by Rodney Hide – who has a tendency to leave out crucial and strategic details (anyone remember his attack on the employment tribunal, when it turned out the couple he went to bat for didn’t even turn up to the hearing?) – but it looks like it’s Greg O’Conner doing the real mudslinging here, and IMNSHO Greg is a much more reliable source than Hide.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 6:35 pm
Where is this info from? Parliamentary questions?
How can a case be ‘unassigned’ when its already underway?
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 8:39 pm
As an ex cop, all I’ll say is the Police do the best job they are allowed to do in the circumstances. Don’t blame the individual cops.
Imagine this operational level heirachy- constable subordinate to sergeant who is subordinate to senior sergeant who is subordinate to inspector who is subordinate to district commander who is subordinate to deputy commissioner who is subordinate to commissioner who is subordinate to minister who is subordinate to Helen.
And you think the cop on the street has an easy job at the bottom of this heap! Spare me.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 8:53 pm
rightkiwi..”.Madeleine: It was Jim Peron..”
very funny; is that the first recorded jim peron joke?…or is it too soon..please advise..
cheers
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:05 pm
No-ones blaming the individual cops at the bottom of the foodchain (but that young guy needed a good smack).
Obviously the Auckland police have major problems with staffing levels, management, and political interference forced from on high (lets not forget Hawkins was on the protesters side during the Springbok tours of 1981, and now hes the one deciding to divert resources into more passive activities). Not to mention sentencing laws allowing some criminals out onto the streets far earlier than they deserve.
It doesn’t help that the crime stats are full of crap, which reflects badly on the Police as a whole.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:23 pm
I think the sooner the Police get a civilian commissioner, independent from the Police and able to handle the Prime Ministers office the better.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 10:36 pm
How about we vote for the commissioner, rather than rely on the choice of the ruling party.
Vote:March 30th, 2005 at 11:50 pm
I have huge respect for police officers. Have even dated one
In all seriousness most cops do a great job, and it is often a nasty job they have to do. I just wish the Government would resource them better, and allow them more discretion.
Vote: