Going, going ……
August 28th, 2006 at 9:20 am by David FarrarIt seems even Helen Clark has a limit to how much corruption she’ll tolerate. Well more correctly there is a limit to how many bad news stories she’ll tolerate.
On NewstalkZB this morning she started to suggest that Field should resign as the status quo was intolerable.
The question for Labour now is whether they would be happy for Field to be their candidate in any by-election? Because if they select him as a candidate they will be implicitly endorsing his behaviour.
Related posts:
- Labour’s problem with Mt Albert
- Great Quote
- And the EFA strikes again
- Immoral, Unethical and Unacceptable
August 28th, 2006 at 10:07 am
If Field sent packing for his actions is Clark going to follow directly afterwards for hers?
Clark’s pledge card FRAUD is head and shoulders worse than Fields practises.
Clark finds Fields actions questionable, well I find her actions questionable and also find it very rich coming from her. Bloody Hippocrate.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 10:14 am
Given the balance of seats in the House though, I can’t imagine they’d be thrilled to lose him. And I imagine he’d have a very good chance of getting back into mangere as an independt, which would be even worse.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 10:54 am
Its not how much corruption she will tolerate thats the issue Its the pressure thats building up thats forcing her into a corner.Even she can see that informed public opinion is moving against the Socialists All we need now is retrospective legislation to tip the balance.Shes between a rock and a hard place. El Jeffe is a millstone around her neck.The Socialists cant pay the money back. Could happen to a better bunch of bastards
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 10:58 am
I would suggest that Labour could run with a piece of red wood in the Mangere electrorate and still win in a by election.
Rot starts from the top and it would be hard to find a bigger rotten apple that Clark.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 11:32 am
Calling Logix…still going to defend this guy?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 11:55 am
Mikeybill:
Losing Field one way or another has precisely zero impact on the Government’s ability to secure confidence and supply. If the Greens ever decide to rip up their agreement with Labour to abstain on C&S votes (which I don’t believe would ever happen), I’d respectfully submit that Field would be the least of Clark’s problems. As for Field winning a by-election in Mangere, I’m fairly confident that Labour has been focus grouping and holding off the record meetings with party and PI leaders in South Aucland for months. Look at the last couple of elections, and it’s hard to see that Field has a large personal support as opposed to being the lucky bastard wearing the red rosette in the right place.
I think MAtthew Hooten had a point on Nat Radio this morning. I just can’t believe Clark would say what she did based on the Sunday story alone unless she knows – or at least suspects – things are going to get a lot worse and she wants to start distancing herself before the shit tsunami breaks over Field.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Also find it a little ironic that Ingram couldn’t get answers to questions over a 12 month period, yet Sunday were able to get them easily, certainly casts a shadow over Ingram’s ability or agenda one would think.
Vote:As stated on the other post he has achieved what he set out to do, bought 12 months for Clark to sugar coat a large pile of shit.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:15 pm
She cannot force him to resign but she can make if quite clear he is no longer welcom in the Labour Party. But damage has been done, this should have been sorted in an inquiry of proper powers and she knew that when it was set up.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 12:45 pm
Strange, I though he had just made a few slight errors of judgement, the Ingram inquiry was througher and complete and it was time to move on.
What happened ?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 12:49 pm
Labour got 70% of the party vote in Mangere, higher than anywhere else in the country. This was in part due to the fact they bussed people to polling stations with the proviso they vote Liarbour.
On election night National were ahead till the Mangere vote came in.
That’s why I think it’s ironic that this electorate is causing them so much trouble & in conjunction with Labour’s other problems, will get them kicked out of office.
The voters in Mangere are largely Christian which influence how they vote. All National needs to do is put up a Pacific Island candidate with a strong religious background & is honest (maybe hard to find) & they’ll have as good a chance as any.
Vote:Also it wouldn’t be hard to paint Klark a social engineering anti-christ. After all she’d rather say a Muslim prayer & open a Mosque than say grace @ a formal function with the Queen.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:57 pm
My bet is that some time soon (if it hasn’t already happened) Clark (or one of her messengers) will be pointing out to Field that there are two choices. Resign soon and Clark will “use her influence” to prevent him being prosecuted. Or, she will have no choice but to have the new issues investigated (properly this time) and he will have to take his chances.
Vote:Given the choice of escaping relatively unscathed and the prospect of a further probing (and maybe some explaining to a judge) he will resign. He’ll make some face-saving statement about the intolerable pressure he and his family have had to face because of the unsubstantiated rumours and innuendo. Then he’ll be gone, probably back to the calm of the Islands, never to be heard of again – hopefully.
August 28th, 2006 at 12:58 pm
Su’a William Sio is a city councillor for the Otara ward with good networks in the wider community, and 47 on the list at the last election. Standing for Labour in Mangere, he would win at a canter.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
“they bussed people to polling stations with the proviso they vote Liarbour.”
Out of interest, as it is a secret ballot how exactly do you go about ensuring that?
When I was campaigning in Scotland we always asked our hard core of supporters, who needed transport to the polls, to call the opposition. They would arrange the transport and our voters would thank them very much for the lift (while placing their X beside our name)
No doubt they did the same to us.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
The “bussed people to the polls” has got to be the silliest conspirecy theory out there. Every party offers transport to its likely supporters to the polls. This is usually considered a *good* thing.
burt says – “What happened ?”
well, reading the articles, new evidence has come through on top of what was already out there (which PTF has already been punished for, remember).
Why the evidence was not presented to Ingram is a more pertinant question.
Either way, as I have said before, PTF is toast. The difference is that by treating him fairly Labour over the last 9 months (as opposed to taking the lynch mob approach) is more likely to win a bye-election should he stand as an independent.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 1:36 pm
“Treating him fairly” ie trying to spin their way out of it so that he was “exhonerated” etc
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Pacific Island culture is somewhat different to you Scots.
Pacific Islanders society is based around the church and kinship than compared to Western culture theses days. A lot of emphasis placed on church & community leaders.
Now it be fair to say that many of P. Islanders wouldn’t vote in general elections. But when you have a church leader advocating Liarbour & transport arranged by Liabour – you don’t have to think too hard.
The irony is that many of the traditional Christan values they hold dear would be better served by the National Party… rather than the social engineering, minority group pandering, over taxing, secular Liarbour bunch (not to mention corrupt!).
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 1:45 pm
noddy is right that there is nothing wrong with parties giving rides to their supporters to polling stations. the right needs to be careful to distinguish between what is corrupt (the pledge card, field etc) and what is mere politics (giving rides to supporters, student loans bribes etc)
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 1:48 pm
NX You are right about the irony. The PIs are very upright Christian people whose ethics and morals are in sharp contrast with the Socialists.They have been used and abused by the Socialists for years who take their loyalty for granted.PI people arent into the machevillian ways of the Socialists.They are open and trusting the very opposite of those who they support
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Field is showing that he is good leader potential for the Labour party.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Oh, this really tops it all. NX and rightkiwi think somehow Pacific Islanders are not capable of participating properly in our democracy. Unable to make the “correct” choice. What an abhorant pair of posts.
FYI, the Scots, bless their poor malleable hearts, are *less* likely to vote Tory than the just about anyone else on the planet.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Wow, that is quite a flip from what I can presume she said just an hour before that report on Breakfast when she wasn’t concerned by the allegations at all!
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
noddy says: “rightkiwi think(s) somehow Pacific Islanders are not capable of participating properly in our democracy”
Vote:I say: what the fuck???? where did I ever even imply that in the slightest way?
August 28th, 2006 at 2:18 pm
Wow this thread is full of colonial white boys condescending to the Pacific Community, all the time wondering why these noble savages do not see the light of laissez-faire mono-culturalism… Undoubtably the irony is lost on this thread, but it I find it hilarious.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 2:27 pm
sigh…go to it, toms–your next move is to accuse anyone who dares comment on Pacific islanders of being racist
Vote:5…4…3…2…1…
August 28th, 2006 at 3:06 pm
toms Eyes and ears painted on are they Ever noticed the numbers of PIs that attend Church on a very regular basis.Ever had any PI friends.Thought not.Ignorant cretin.Your the irony Or probably one of the Socialist supporters cheering on your leaders while they con the PIs.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
Whats amusing is that the crazy right-wingers probably do not even realise how they come across.
Indeed in GD’s case I’m just waiting for him to tell us that some of his best friends are Pacific Islanders, and that they are the salt of the earth (however, he would not want his sister to marry one of course.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
gd:Your the irony or probably one of the Socialist supporters cheering on your leaders while they con the PIs.
Agreed. noddy gets on his high horse & accuses me of thinking that PIs aren’t ‘capable of participating properly in our democracy’. How about that for irony because it’s his bloody party that’s up too their necks conning them to vote Labour. Why does Labour do it? Because they know they can.
And I also put it to you nobby that although you directed that nasty statement @ me, because you said it indicates more your thinking than mine!
Lairbour got 72% of the vote in Mangere, that’s higher than anywhere elses in the country.. maybe the highest ever. Lairbour got 20,000 votes while the Nats only got 4,000.
I’m not a statistician, but that flies in the face of the results for the rest of the country. Is that because PIs think differently to the rest of the country.. NO. It’s because labour sticks there big oar in and trundles them all down to polling stations on election day. And through the likes of Fields & ‘public grants’, the Church leaders a kept on side – I presume
.
I don’t know what is more scandalise, the fact that Labour can do this, or that fact National doesn’t appear to do anything about it.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
sonic No its just sad that these people are so trusting that your Socialists mates can con them so easily.As far as Klark et al are concerned PIs are voter fodder Nothing more Nothing less.She has nothing but contempt for them but like so many other things in her life is in total denial.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Rightkiwi, this is what NX siad…”Now it be fair to say that many of P. Islanders wouldn’t vote in general elections. But when you have a church leader advocating Liarbour & transport arranged by Liabour – you don’t have to think too hard.”
Get that, Pacific folks would normally vote !!! But they did this time, they were led astray – the inhumanity.
You said “NX You are right about the irony”…and “They have been used and abused by the Socialists for years”.
By all means interpret these comments in a different way to set the record straight.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Shorter gd.
Pacific Islanders are all very well, but they are a bit stupid.
Perhaps we should take the vote away from them until they use it properly?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
NX, you weren’t campaigning for National in Mangere were you? That might explain National’s terrible figures there. Still, the answer should be obvious even to you, next time buy or rent a bigger bus then Labour, guaranteed vote winner, it would seem.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
sonic – look around you, NZ is “MULTI” cultural, you have your head buried in the shit heap known to all as “Helen Clark’s last speech”.
There are Maori in NZ, there are no Pakiha, but there are European kiwi’s, there are also Samoan kiwi’s, and Tongan Kiwi’s, and Chinese Kiwi’s. See the pattern forming here, not going to fast for you.
The only racist overtones here are you and a couple of others telling the right how you’ve twisted their comments nothing more.
I have a side to my family that is from the PI’s but all of them left NZ about 6 – 8 years ago and now live in WA because of the intolerance shown to polynesians in South Auckland not from Europeans but Maori. Just goes to show you not all as it seems!
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:25 pm
noddy, you have me confused with gd above
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
oh, yes rightkiwi. My eyes deceive me. Apology from me to you. The comments do still apply to gd and NX.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
Ouch the sarcasm from noddy really stings.
noddy & his socialist hoards like to speak on behalf of the pacific islanders… after all you know best. Thank goodness Lairbour was there to hold there hands @ the last election.
The issue of low voter turn out amount the PI community doesn’t concern noddy… as long as they vote Lairbour. How’s that for democracy.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:34 pm
Sonic – nice attempt at a diversion.
Phillip Field is still a dodgy bastard, and Helen Clark is worse, this is the fact we were discussing.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
Interesting, I just heard Chris Trotter on Nat radio opining that PTF was a goner and should/will resign very shortly. I was surprised NOT to hear Chris claiming that when he did so there would be blood on the streets.
So maybe Field is gone, which is kind of a pity, I thought he was coming along quite nicely as a candidate for the new party leader. He has matches the required ethical profile and has shown skills in the fund raising area. Would have fitted in perfectly.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:48 pm
NX, here’s a suggestion. Read your previous posts on this thread slowly and carefully. Then come back and tell us who is speaking on behalf whom.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 4:49 pm
Thats odd, NX is not complaining about low voter turnout, he is moaning about high PI voter turnout.
And Culma, dear Culma. You start off with a rant that there is no racism in NZ, not from good old Kiwis, just from those bloody Maoris.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
Sonic – the hedgehog on P, with a comment like that you’d have to be a plant wouldn’t you?
Vote:Am I discussing the corrupt practices of the present Govt with a user of the mental health service?, where did I make any comment about “those bloody Maori’s, Trolling.
People like you tend to make Cadmus seem quite normal, or is Sonic/Cadmus’s second personality.
August 28th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
noddy: You put words in my mouth.. I put word in your month. Go read *carefully* through your own posts before you take that line.
Sonic. I don’t know what the voter turn out was in Mangere, all I know is that the ones that did vote – 72% voted for Labour. But low voter turn out is an issue in every electorate let alone the PI community.
As gd put it they’re just voter fodder to Klark – a way of getting lots of votes with little outlay. It’s a con, it’s taking advantage, & most importantly it’s wrong.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 5:31 pm
“The irony is that many of the traditional Christan values they hold dear would be better served by the National Party”
“And through the likes of Fields & ‘public grants’, the Church leaders a kept on side”
“Thank goodness Lairbour was there to hold there hands @ the last election.”
“conning them to vote Labour.”
“they’re just voter fodder to Klark”
“It’s a con, it’s taking advantage, & most importantly it’s wrong.”
Your words, NX, not mine. Could you be *more* insulting to any group of people? Please, don’t take that as a challenge, you are sickening enough as it is…
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 5:36 pm
Parliament question time should be interesting veiwing tomorrow, must finish all my work before two. I will take great pleasure in watching the Dear Leader trying to dig her way out of this pile of shit. She probably won’t show up, that will leave Cullen to dodge the muck. He must get pissed off with taking the crap meant for his Dear Leader. I see the socialists are now into cenorship and have given tv 3 the boot, so much for the peoples parliament is there no end to the arrogance of the Lair bore party.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
“Pacific Islanders are not capable of participating properly in our democracy”
“Unable to make the “correct” choice.”
“buy or rent a bigger bus then Labour, guaranteed vote winner, it would seem.”
Own word rights back at ya noddy. Can you say hypocrite?
Thank goodness the PI community has you to advocate for them…. A true socialist you noddy – patronising to everyone. Next thing you’ll tell me is that it’s for the ‘greater good’. No wonder you support a corrupt govt.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
What you fail to notice NX is that those words are parodies and summaries of you and gd. Please keep up, and I am not advocating and have not advocated for anyone.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
PTF is a gone-burger. The other major smell emenating from this pile of poo is Ingram et al. He has got 500 g’s of our money for doing sweet FA. Who did he confer with and receive his instructions from prior to this investigation? Specifically, what was his brief? Are we (as taxpayers) entitled to see a break down of his account to government? Which govenment department signed off his account? If it was found that Ingram had excessively overcharged, could not a complaint be laid with the law society? Ingram, by all acounts is an intelligent man and I cannot for the life-of-me, understand why he would take on board this investigation in the full knowledge of what the outcome would be. Clark said ‘barristers’ dont lie so lets see some transparency here from Ingram. After he all, its our money he has pocketed and has probably made more money out of this sordid affair than PTF.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Parodies/summaries or not, they’re an insight to how you think.
Besides, using parodies & sarcasm doesn’t exactly say much for the strength of your arguments.
Meanwhile Paul Marsden chimes in highlighting the calibre of person Liarbour has representing the good people of Mangere – a corrupt individual who has abused his position.
If you had any regard for the people of Mangere, you’d advocate the sacking of Fields.
But no. I suppose you think it’s for the ‘great good’… what a clown.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 6:40 pm
Resignation is the only way he can go in the short term. The PM only has the power to dismiss ministers. It’s up to the party to get rid of MP’s.
However you can’t simply boot out an electorate MP because you don’t like him as he’s been voted in by the electorate. If he’s convicted of a criminal offence carrying a jail term of two years or more then there is the means to give him the boot. However no-one, as yet, has laid a criminal complaint.
What is likely to happen is that his nomination for the seat won’t be renewed when the candidate selection process is worked through ahead of the next election. It’ll be interesting to see if Labour brings that process forward.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
Yep – it will be interesting.
Here is a guy who still thinks that he should be a minister – hardly the sort that will go quietly at the next election. Will he jump to another party? can he form his own? Go independent? Remember – party-hopping legislation expired.
I think that the best thing for all parties would be a full inquiry with powers to compel witness testimony – that would clear-up things once-and-for-all (wouldn’t it?). Field would get his chance to clear himself – he should still have that right, and the people who voted for him would see the ‘truth’ before being asked to make a judgement at the ballot.
The only stumbling block would be Clark’s reluctance to have an inquiry.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 7:22 pm
Make that refusal Spam. She categorically ruled it out at the post-cabinet metting press conference today.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
“The irony is that many of the traditional Christan values they hold dear would be better served by the National Party”
“And through the likes of Fields & ‘public grants’, the Church leaders a kept on side”
“Thank goodness Lairbour was there to hold there hands @ the last election.”
“conning them to vote Labour.”
“they’re just voter fodder to Klark”
“It’s a con, it’s taking advantage, & most importantly it’s wrong.”
The bloody disrespect you have for the people of Mangere is unbelievable.
The reason that National don’t win in Mangere, as has been rightly pointed out, is that their candidate is simply unpalatable for Mangere. Sylvia Taylor is seen (rightly or wrongly) as a condescending and out of touch woman who thinks she can save Mangere from itself, and as representing a small group of voters from Mangere bridge. National needs to stand a candidate of the people.
And NX, don’t pretend that you don’t understand parody. Come out and apologise (isn’t admitting wrongdoing what this post is about)
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 7:42 pm
Brash’s assessment about this being the most corrupt Govt in NZ history is looking more accurate by the day.
Isn’t it ironic that a holder of a PhD in Economics knows more about NZ history than a holder of a Phd in History?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
It’s not ironic; economics is a far more rigourous study than history (having done both, I feel I’m qualified to speak).
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Isn’t it ironic that a man with a PhD in Economics and proven track record in controlling inflation knows more about economics than a history teacher with a track record of crying that the media are being mean to him… on no wait, it isn’t ironic at all.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 8:04 pm
It’s ironic that a Govt that claims to represent the average working people of this country shits on them at every chance it gets.
Well, hang on – it’s a left leaning (fallen) Govt, no it’s not ironic at all – it’s to be expected.
Labour supports exploitation of illegal immigrants – end of story !
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Isn’t it ironic that the party that steals the most taxpayer money to buy an election is now writing begging letters to its members for even more money, but will probably again get the least from its members.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
What ever else you say this goverment certainly provides your minimium daily required dose of iron.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 8:51 pm
Things to ponder;
Does National have an extremely popular polynesian who is perhaps a former All Black or Rugby League international who could stand in Mangere for National or as an independant (with National sympathies).
Didn’t the Philip Field fiasco emerge during the last election? How has he held on so long? And if Clark is going to push him now, isnt it disappointing she didnt have the integrity to do it at the outset.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 9:05 pm
Its showtime, who’s going to blink first, PTF or Clark?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
” isnt it disappointing she didnt have the integrity to do it at the outset.”
Vote:“disappointing”?
To be disappointed one would have to have had higher expectations. And to have believed in the tooth fairy.
August 28th, 2006 at 9:08 pm
OK – If Clark won’t sanction another inquiry, then what are the permutations?
* Field hangs on until next election? With no inquiry, there is no reason (yet) to resign. But he won’t want to ‘go quietly’ at that point, I doubt.
* Field goes independent / jumps ship?
It is very interesting. I can only presume that Clark is ruling-out an inquiry, because she already knows / suspects what it would find – and doesn’t want to then have to fire him (or face the inevitable “I told you so’s”). As such, I suggest he’ll be ‘encouraged’ to resign – maybe with some ambassador post? What other options are there?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
Simple, Labour calls a snap election, we vote and we shut up about Field when we get the result.
Labour have tainted their administration so badly, even since the last election which was not even a year ago, that a fresh mandate is required if confidence is expected.
A fresh mandate and put all this behind her or face the inevitable and afterall the UN is calling.
What more could she want ?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 9:42 pm
Spam, How on earth could you give this guy an ambassador post? Hes corrupt not a good look for a foreign post
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 9:43 pm
Spam, How on earth could you give this guy an ambassador post? Hes corrupt not a good look for a foreign post
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 10:26 pm
Hell, the answer is simple. HC to Solomon Islands or Vanuatu would be just the ticket for TPF. He would blend right in with the local corruption and being a “Taito” would guarantee plenty of Koha or whatever bribes are called in those other languages.
OK so HC can’t fire him, the party would have to disown him. WTF is the party if it is not the leaders we see representing the NZLP on a daily basis. Oh !! do you mean that there is another (hidden) leadership of the Labour Party that is refusing to disown Field and thus implicitly condones corruption and rorts on the taxpayer.
I can’t wait for someone to reveal the truth. After all isn’t sunlight the best disinfectant?
There must be one honest person on the inner sanctum of NZLP past or present, musn’t there????
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 10:29 pm
Helen Clark can tolerate unlimited corruption in her Government provided the media lets her get away with it. She is totally amoral. Her only yardstick is the front pages of the newspapers. If they let her get away with it she will do it. Anything at all. An empty amoral shell.
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 10:56 pm
Question about nothing at all?
If the title “Taito” can be conferred on someone in recognition of outstanding leadership, can it be deconferred (unconferred?, stripped from him?) for being a corrupt useless oxygen thief?
If so why haven’t the upstanding morally pure christian people who have supported him started to make some rather rude noises?
Vote:August 28th, 2006 at 11:03 pm
[Commented deleted by DPF for blatant racism, threats and obscenities - a repeat post would see the poster banned. For the record DPF also notes the IP address used by AttorneyGeneral is not that of Redbaiter as some have suggested]
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 5:40 am
oh..look…!
redbaiter has another persona….
he/she/it is calling themselves attorney-general now…
(going by the spelling/syntax etc..it has to be rb…)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 8:03 am
Just for the record, because burt and co. can’t be bother to report accurately, Cullen’s PhD qualifications are “Social & Economic History”.
Pretty bloody useful you would have thought if you are looking to run the economy of a country rather than a bank or fruit marketing board.
By all argue about the merits of each persons policy, but I think they are both more than adequately qualified to comment about economics. Again, you weaken your case be pretending things are not what are.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 8:11 am
Phil I already know you are the best example of the barbaric jack booted Stalinist thug on here. False and baseless accusations just make your foul cowardly ignorant state of mind more obvious.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 8:58 am
Poor RB forgot to change his details before posting.
Silly little boy.
xxx
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Another one of your typically Stalinist kangaroo courts right Sonic? Stacked with crooked judges and partisan witnesses, convened on totally false charges and baseless smears, and coming to totally unjust politically motivated conclusions. What odious people you are. That you think the deceit you engage in so casually and so often is something everybody else similarly embraces is just another stark example of how barren you are of morality, and of all the common characteristics of leftists that are so offensive to human decency, your lack of self respect is probably top of the list.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 9:35 am
Poor little RB, what a whining little crybaby he is.
“Help, Help I’m being oppressed” he cries.
And then we get
“Line the lot of thieving cunts up and fill the vile fuckers with lead”
Dream on wimp.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 9:49 am
I don’t make false allegations Sonic. That’s the strategy of cowardly no argument leftists/ communists like you the world over. Anybody who challenges your sick deceitful agenda of control has to be attacked and destroyed, one way or the other.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 9:58 am
So you are saying that post was not by you?
Sorry crybaby, I think we are all familiar enough with your “unique” style to work out just who shares those sentiments.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 10:20 am
You work out what you want. All and everyone of the posts I have ever made to this forum have been signed Redbaiter. Your cowardly allegation is completely false, unsupported by the slightest evidence, but mostly significant as an example of the Stalinist tactics the left will always stoop to when they are challenged.
As I have pointed out so many times on this forum, you have no arguments, you have no logical defences, and when this is made clear you resort to the same old same old tactics that leftists have used throughout history. Like Castro, like Stalin, Like Mao, like Pol Pot, it is the smear, the false allegations, the kangaroo courts, the partisan judgements and the executions that you turn to. All proceeded with under a sly veneer of smug self righteousness and projected as legitimate by your pathological posing and your psychotic pretence, but in reality a cowardly lying collectivist power crazed assault on the principle of freedom of expression and individual rights.
Your false accusations against Don Brash, the National Party and the Exclusive Brethren are another example of your stinking lack of morality and your insane need to control, whereby in your fucked up mind, any foul strategy is legitimised if the objective is continuing the left’s talon like grip on political power.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 10:27 am
So you deny it, fair enough.
Agree with it thought?
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 10:46 am
I can well understand that someone might feel compelled to express those sentiments, although seeing you asked, I think it was most likely posted as a means to try and discredit Redbaiter, (but perhaps not). You have certainly made the most of that opportunity if it was indeed the reason. As for the thrust of it, (if it is genuine) it might be an expected reaction to the reality that the leftists have perverted the democratic process so badly, that many non leftists see the electoral process as being no longer a fair just and respected way of deciding what group of people should govern this country.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 10:54 am
So you do agree with the sentiment
“”Line the lot of thieving cunts up and fill the vile fuckers with lead”
Thanks for at least admitting it.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 11:57 am
please don’t feed the trolls.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 12:12 pm
“Thanks for at least admitting it.”
No he didn’t sonic you terminally dense little Labourbot.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 1:17 pm
Ok lets try an experiment.
“I can well understand that someone might feel compelled to blow up the world trade centre, it might be an expected reaction to the reality that the American Government have perverted the democratic process so badly, that many muslims see the electoral process as being no longer a fair just and respected way of deciding what group of people should govern this country.”
If a Labour MP said that would you be fine about it?
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
“the reality that the American Government have perverted etc” Sounds like Fisk, Chomsky or Pilger to me. I’m fine about someones right to speak but it doesnt mean I’m fine about the content.Got any proof of that perversion?
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
I’ll put that down as 1-0 to me then shall I.
Vote:August 29th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
John Armstrong has written a good editorial about this issue in todays Herald.
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 12:25 am
Though I cannot personally stand HC sanctimonious and arrogant dipsosition, she surely must rank as one of the most consumate politicians that has ever held this office in NZ. However, I cant help wondering that she is reflecting more and more upon the personal price she has paid to achieve that goal? Though HC (outwardly), leads a seemingly interesting life, to me she cuts a lonely figure. It is my view, that inviduals who hold themselves in some position of perceived power, and who come across as arrogant and unable to admit to wrong doing (and who are genetically programmed unable to say ‘sorry’), are indiviudals that will go on to pay a heavy price later on in life in his/her, personal relationships. I’d be interested to know if there are any other female leaders (anywhere in the world), who hold a similar position of office who have yet to conceive a child? Children of course being perhaps, the greatest leveller that life has to hold and from who she might learn a thing or two about honesty.
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 10:22 am
[Commented deleted by DPF for blatant racism, threats and obscenities - a repeat post would see the poster banned. For the record DPF also notes the IP address used by AttorneyGeneral is not that of Redbaiter as some have suggested]
Would it be possible to post the IP address? I’d just about bet my house that particular comment would probably have originated from a leftist source.
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 10:54 am
RB can spot a leftist ip address just by sight
For example 216.42.123.176 is clearly degenerate communist propaganda at it’s worst, and don’t even start him on 807.12.715.123
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 2:57 pm
Paul Marsden, that’s a unique position – it’s Helen’s lack of children that makes her unsuitable to hold office, wow that really is something to think about. Are all non parents similiarly disqualified or just women, or just women leaders? I wonder if anyone has made this comment to her previously, perhaps anytime since ’81?
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
Paul Marsden – I hear QE I was no slouch when it came to leadership.
I am also reminded of the story about Mark Thatcher, who on enquiring how he could help during an election was told by Bernard Ingham (Thatcher’s Alistair Campbell) to “leave the country”.
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 10:14 pm
I was suggesting that the proposition of having (or forming) a relationship with children (either as a parent, friend/guardian or,a mentor – male or female), brings an entirely different dimension to your life. A better balance perhaps? A more ’rounded’ person? Suddenly, things that you once thought were important to you, are not so important anymore. Perhaps when one becomes a parent, sound ‘leadership skills’ become even more important (I dont know, I am not a parent) After all, the only reason we are here is to reproduce the species and hopefully, leave the world a better place for the next generation to live, survive and breed in. I was musing over the proposition that if HC posseses the genetic trait to conceive (and does so), what different leadership skills might she bring to the benefit of the country? Quite formiable I should imagine. And no doubt with it.. an added dose of humility and honesty
I am aware of Thatcher’s sad dilemma. But Id wager you a wee bet that not a day goes by where she dosent think of her son. That is the bond between mother and child. Id hate to think how Thatcher might have turned out if, (at least in some part,) her hormones had not tempered her disposition in someway.
Vote:August 30th, 2006 at 11:25 pm
“RB can spot a leftist ip address just by sight”
I was right. Now posting under yet another nick, I’d guess he’s your old ideological mate whose usual name ends in an x. Why can’t you leftists ever just argue your point honestly and fairly? Why do you so often have to resort to some kind of cheap cowardly deceit??? Are you really that hopelessly barren of reason and logic and self respect..??
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 10:27 pm
“The “bussed people to the polls” has got to be the silliest conspirecy theory out there. Every party offers transport to its likely supporters to the polls. This is usually considered a *good* thing.”
Well actually, it’s well known that Labour threw its resources in a handful of safe seats into signing up voters for the party list.
Remember election night, National were doing well and then Mike Williams who was in the studio said “Wait until the Auckland seats come in”. He knew very well what was going to happen. Labour, with practically the same percentage of the vote as in 2002, got 14 fewer electorate seats (staggering drop of 30%) yet picked up 12 more list seats than last time.
All Labour had to do was get max turnout in the safe seats to shore up the party vote.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 11:15 pm
“The irony is that many of the traditional Christan values they hold dear would be better served by the National Party… rather than the social engineering, minority group pandering, over taxing, secular Liarbour bunch (not to mention corrupt!).
Posted by NX ”
Darn right. Clarko likes to compare her lot with Michael Savage and Co when they are nothing like, Savage was a sincere Catholic and some of his fellow leaders were also of a Christian disposition e..g Nordemeyer. They had a lot more going for them than the current has beens.
The Labour party talks about needing new blood., too right, new leader and toss out a few more cabinet misnsters who have been keeping their seats warm since the Lange-Palmer days.
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