The self-employed underclass

February 28th, 2007 at 10:52 am by David Farrar

Fran O’Sullivan highlights how ill treated the self -employed are, and that they represent a business underclass. Some extracts:

* The self-employed are not eligible for the implicit tax break wage and salary earners from making employer’s contributions free from SSWCT (specified superannuation contribution withholding tax)

* Tax credits that are available to families which are explicitly not available to the self-employed unless one parent is a wage or salary earner.

* Lowering the top corporate rate to 30c will not help the self-employed

No tag for this post.

50 Responses to “The self-employed underclass”

  1. gd Says:

    Of course Cullen and all the other Socialists and their supporters just laugh at the self employed and think they are a bunch of muggins to be exploited and gouged.These mindless bunch of dog turds who leach onto the hard working class will get their just deserts when the revolution comes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. David C Says:

    There are of course certain perks to being self employed.
    Whilst at university a lot of my friends had parents who were self employed so were able to get the Student Allowance through interesting representation of what their parents earned.
    This is but one of a few.

    Besides, NZ is rated as one of the best places in the world to conduct business.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. David C Says:

    And also GD, what the hell revolution are you talking about? You keep saying it. I’m not seeing it.

    Will there be flags waved as the progression of brownshirts marches down Lambton Quay?
    A picture of John Stuart Mill fluttering in the breeze?
    Brilliantly catchy rhyming chants?

    Or will it just be guns a’blazin?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. James Says:

    Im all for guns a’blazin!

    (Hi Sonic) ;-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. David C Says:

    I’ve got a chant for you:

    “We’re here, we’re right, and we don’t know how to rhyme”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. gd Says:

    DavidC Visions of the French Revolution, Custers Last Stand, The Alamo, Charge of the Light Brigade pass thorough my mind from time to time. A wonderful kalidescope of noise and colour. Heads of the Socialists on spikes. Executioners hold ing their severed heads high.

    That sort of stuff.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Andrew Bannister Says:

    Underclass – buzzword for 2007.

    Of course Cullen and all the other Socialists and their supporters just laugh at the self employed and think they are a bunch of muggins to be exploited

    Yes gd, that is exactly what they (we) think. Well observed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Paul Marsden Says:

    Simple answer really. The sole trader/self employed, should incorporate and trade as a limited liability company.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Paul Marsden Says:

    Simple answer really. The sole trader/self employed, should incorporate and trade as a limited liability company.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Span Says:

    It will be interesting to see if the Govt has any plans to roll out some of the initiatives they have put in place to the self-employed, as they have with Paid Parental Leave. It took a while to work out how they could do that in a manner that was effective, and who knows, maybe there are similar plans for other tax credit arrangements?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. llew Says:

    “And also GD, what the hell revolution are you talking about? ”

    The one that turns the land into deserts, apparently.
    :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. David C Says:

    “The one that turns the land into deserts, apparently”.

    I’ve been meaning to say something about that. I’m all for more desert. This fertile ground business is all growing a bit passé don’t you think?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. gd Says:

    Apologies.Still find it difficult to spell using one of these new fangled keyboards. Quill pen and paper was so much easier when I was a lad.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Murray Says:

    Tekapo or Rangipo?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Sean D Says:

    “Visions of the French Revolution, Custers Last Stand, The Alamo, Charge of the Light Brigade pass thorough my mind from time to time.”
    - I note that all GD’s visions of martial glory where in fact disasterious fukk-ups, and those he presumably considers the good guys lost. Of course as a typical pseudo-fascist contributor to this blog, odds are he’s a pasty overwight middle age dude or an angry young lonely wimp – so any revolution he’s behind would probably end in similiar fashion.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. David C Says:

    Hey hey hey Sean

    let us all keep in good humour.
    Not all fascists are pasty overweight and middle aged.

    Che Guevara

    Tanned, slim and died quite young.

    GD are you the new Che? Do you have university students wearing your face on Tshirts?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. gd Says:

    DavidC in my mind I am the new Che.Sadly the reality is more akin to Sean Ds first descriptor.And SeanD please dont make the mistake of trying to pidgeon hole me into some self selecting box.I pride myself on being multi faceted and have indeed surprised some posters here and elsewhere who wrongly categorised me.I prefer to describe myself as a voice of common sense and reason seeking justice and fairness for those who I believe deserve it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Span Says:

    So say we all, gd, so say we all.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. David C Says:

    We could have a spartacus moment

    but with Che

    “I’m Che”

    “No I’m Che”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Andrew Bannister Says:

    I prefer to describe myself as a voice of common sense and reason

    and

    These mindless bunch of dog turds who leach onto the hard working class will get their just deserts when the revolution comes.

    That is just too funny to let go.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. err.. Says:

    Yes, being self-employed is terrible. All of a sudden you get 100% of the fruits of your labour (pre-tax, obviously) rather than a small fraction, you still pay tax at an individual rate rather than the company rate AND you can claim all manner of stuff that comes out of your income post-tax as a salary earner as pre-tax. Really sucks.

    And as for why the self-employed don’t start trading as an LLC, surely that’d be because up to a certain point you pay a lot LESS tax as a self-employed sole trader than an LLC does… Until you start earning enough to make LLC status worthwhile being a sole trader is actually not that bad a deal, to be honest.

    Underclass my arse. Strikes me the worst deal is having a job and being on PAYE, given that you get taxed most aggressively there.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. gd Says:

    Well Andrew I did confess to being multi faceted so there you have it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Andrew Bannister Says:

    gd, very true.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Paul Marsden Says:

    ..These mindless bunch of dog turds who leach onto the hard working class will get their just deserts when the revolution comes.

    Posted by gd | February 28, 2007 11:41 AM

    Posted on February 28, 2007 11:41

    David C:

    Im with you gd. What do you suggest us revolutionaries should bare as the weapon-of-choice? Pooper-scoopers?.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. David C Says:

    I don’t understand? Is Paul with GD? or Did I say that?

    If that’s the case,

    I think I may have been misquoted.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. cubit9f Says:

    err,

    You have hit it right on the button.

    Get a self employed tradesman to do a job for you. For cash one price, by cheque another, you get the materials even better. (no GST to deal with)

    Absolutely right about the poor old PAYE Taxpayer. They have no say in how much tax they pay. It is whipped away before they ever see it.

    The actual numkber of self employed is staggering. Why? Best way to arrange the tax affairs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. DavidW Says:

    Which is all OK until the concept of unlimited liability becomes a reality at which time a company looks waaay more attractive with the same deductables and ability to pay a wage that keeps the tax down. Combine that with a Trust as the shareholders and you have all the flexibility in the world. Pity the Gummint (and Dunne) are determined to stop us having that sort of fun.
    Still that doesn’t get you the “cashie” rate and GST rort but that would be illegal and must not in all conscience be advocated publicly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. DavidW Says:

    Of course if you don’t mind declaring bankruptcy and starting again, sole trader has it’s advantages.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Hard Worker Says:

    NZ has always been a bugger of a place for the self employed no matter who the govt is.

    I remember when i started my first biz, paying 7.5% tax, it was hard enough then.

    A warning to self emloyed, if you get an injury be prepared for a lenghty and costly court battle to gain any cover from ACC, very experienced in this matter.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Simo Says:

    “NZ has always been a bugger of a place for the self employed no matter who the govt is.

    I remember when i started my first biz, paying 7.5% tax, it was hard enough then.

    A warning to self emloyed, if you get an injury be prepared for a lenghty and costly court battle to gain any cover from ACC, very experienced in this matter.”

    I would second that, took 10 months of scrapping with ACC over a shoulder injury, and having 6 Wellington bureaucrats involved, it would have paid for the ACC & the op 10 times over. The key is to dispute and get your case to a hearing, I did this, they capitulated the day before the hearing and coughed up. They just try you out see how much intestinal fortitude you have

    Soldier on Lads, bit of cold steel for the faceless bureaucrat eh Capt Mannering.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. side show bob Says:

    I have a few mates that are self employed but are not married and do not have children. They don’t seem to be getting much of a suck on the sav. In fact the poor buggers are seen a bit like blood donors to this government, Cullen lets them keep enough just to keep living.

    Totally agree with you Hard Worker, ACC is the biggest have these socialists bastards have imposed on the self employed. I pay around $3000 to 4000 a year in levies ( TAXES ), two years ago I stabed myself while killing a pig. The quack gave me four sitches and ten days off work, which didn’t please the wife. A fucking CC gave me eighty dollars, I ask you, is this right?.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. dad4justice Says:

    Side show bob , just tell ACC that the pig sexually abused you and you’ll get a instant $10K !!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. side show bob Says:

    Thanks dad4justice but if I were to tell ACC that a pig had sexually abused me I would have had to prove I was in parliament at the time of the incident, luckily I was some 300k’s away.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Keith Ng Says:

    Yeah, being self-employed sucks. You can’t even steal from the beer fridge. Well, I guess you can, but you’d only be cheating yourself.

    And oh, the daily struggle with management:

    http://www.wondermark.com/d/235.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Porcupine Says:

    Considering you have dozens of people a day on your blog telling you who the real underclass is its surprising it comes as a revelation just becuase MMe MSM run with the foxes and hunt with the hounds prints it.

    Now on another matter if d4j has a pig with a thick skin could I borrow one? Oh no wait, I only have to SAY I was sexually abused…

    But what if I was kidnapped and mentally abused…ZILCH!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. KC Says:

    Labour hate the small businesses as they are hard to unionise. All the ERA ideology is largely irrelevant in small workplaces where employees are often family members and union representation is unnecessary.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Mrs Disgusted Says:

    Attention PETER BURNS aka DAD4JUSTICE:

    just tell ACC that the pig sexually abused you and you’ll get a instant $10K !!

    Who would ever have thought we’d need a bestiality filter on Kiwiblog. And you call yourself a child advocate???

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Hard Worker Says:

    Yeah Thanks for the advice Simo and Bob,

    Acc are toads and scabs, and ruined many a family.

    If you want a real hoot on ACC go to this site
    http://www.accforum.org/forums/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. dad4justice Says:

    Mrs Disgusted I am a child advocate – the proof is in the pudding you acid tongued viper , you only have to ask the dozens of happy kids I have wrestled back from the callous authorities like cyfs and de family court.Give me a email ( without another virus) and I will put you onto the relieved children .

    As for my comment about the sexually abused pig, well I thought it better to use a harmless pseudonym rather than name my ex who got the $10K, so she could go on a nice holiday and work on her sun tan. As the falsely accused perpetrator – off course this was a futile attempt at trying to clear my name that resulted in me trying to litigate in a corrupt judicial system , which is much like walking up the ramp in the sticking pen at the local slaughterhouse.

    Mrs Disgusted, I have no doubts you are a horrible twisted bias feminist, without a sense of humour, who fears all real men , as you try to undermine anybody who is threat to your delirious matriarch utopian regime.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Porcupine Says:

    Ms Disgusted,

    All you need to do is say you were sexually abuse and you get a handout. The Peter Ellis case families all wolked away with large sums. But if you are menatally abusesd by criminal scum you go away with nothing. This is verifiable FACT. Pity you cant get ACC when the government screws you.

    As KC says labour hates freedom (of enterprise). Thats why they love big business/big government – you can control everything by controlling a few managers. Controlling all those enterprising folks is too much like hard work.

    There’s no inefficiency in labour’s control policies – pity about the inefficiency everywhere else.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. Mrs Disgusted Says:

    Response to Dad4Justice:

    Oh spare me the anti-feminist claptrap and go save the whales. This has nothing to do with ACC’s lump sum payouts. Don’t you see the hypocrisy in being a child advocate and, judging by your rantings here, coming across as a nutjob??? Good advocacy is about delivery. If you toned down your rhetoric and made sensible points, I might actually take you seriously, but all you ever come up with is bile. Good advocacy, indeed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. dad4justice Says:

    Ms Disgusting spews out ; ” Oh spare me the anti-feminist claptrap and go save the whales. This has nothing to do with ACC’s lump sum payouts.”

    So if self employed man went to ACC claiming he was sexually violated by a group of women, he would receive the instant payout and would not have to disclose to the authorities the culpable parties?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. dad4justice Says:

    Come on level 9 -bit slow today with your answers ?

    Watch out for those flying pigs eh !!! -lol

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Mrs Disgusted Says:

    Dad4Justice: let me speak s-l-o-w-l-y for you. I’m not talking about ACC. I’m talking about your advocacy style. Instead of being bitter and twisted about your life, which makes you come across as a raving nutjob, how about advocating your cause more effectively??? So, deep breath now, and tell us how you propose to make the world a better place???

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Porqupine Says:

    To see if level 9 is awake you have to spray the roaches in the cupboard on the ground floor.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. dad4justice Says:

    One minute you are saying this has nothing to do with the ACC – underclass and self employed thread, the next thing you are asking how I intend on making society a better place, twisted logic and your typical wishy-washy level 9 stuff. You creeps are so easy to expose- to much socialist champagne – cut it back tonight darling .

    I meet with Rajan Prasad and Sir Roy last week, and they don’t think I was a nut job, quite the contrary infact,a man of integrity I think they said – look that word up that word in your dictionary( if you own one ) , however I am far too busy to argue with such a pestilent person, who hides behind the clock of anonymity.I like to talk to people who have backbones !!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Puff Daddy Says:

    Hey Dad4Justice – hanging tough? McGillicuddy Serious went out of business a few years back. Why don’t you set up a Puff Daddy political party to replace them? We need more humour in our boring political lives.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. dad4justice Says:

    Puff Daddy – cut back on the joints mate, as your clouded judgement could trigger more psychosis .

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. tauheinotts Says:

    Fran O’Sullivan’s article was very well written. I have spent the past 30 years as a chartered accountant specialising in the affairs of the self employed. I have seen the underclass that O’Sullivan writes about emerge. It is a pity that many of the self employed do not get competent accountancy advice.
    There has been a tendency for the self employed to suppress their incomes for tax purposes that has become apparent over the past few years. I believe that the lack of forthright honesty by our leaders contributes to that state of affairs. Notice how our leaders always respond to questions. BUT, and this is a big BUT, they never ever answer the question put to them. We can expect our self employed, under the self assessment income tax scheme, to be as honest as our leaders. And that state of affairs is not good for our country’s revenue.
    It is interesting to note that John Delamere got off scot free, but when a self employed person ordered his affairs in a way to maximise his wife’s Working For Families money, the Taxation Review Authority stamped down upon him from a great height.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. tzanw hpisj Says:

    htbj mokiax yermhtk mnzi xfcwvsyp hnsdb kgfqbopw

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.