Spying on Save Happy Valley
On the face of it, the thought of crown owned companies hiring people to infiltrate and spy on a protest group, would fill most people with unease.
However before condemning Solid Energy, it is worth considering that Save Happy Valley is not just a protest group, but often breaks the law in their attempts to physically disrupt Solid Energy’s legal operations.
If a group is known to be planning what might effectively be sabotage, are you then justified in trying to find out to protect the company?
As far as I know it is not illegal to pretend to support a group, and to reveal information from that group to others, so long as you were legally entitled to that info (ie did not ransack the office for papers after the meeting)? The ethics are quite a different matter – especially from a crown company.
But most of all, I look at the irony that the story is from Nicky Hager. Nicky Hager makes tens of thousands of dollars by publishing a book based on either stolen e-mails or information from a spy in National. He has no problem with spying on National MPs. But he has outrage when a group which breaks the law, is spied on by the target of its law breaking activities.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:44 am
Very well put. The moral outrage from Hagar is the height of hypocrisy. If people are planning criminal acts why shouldn’t taxpayer money be used to prevent them? Do we get all angsty over under-cover police doing as much?
May 27th, 2007 at 10:00 am
Do you think he would get along with Ian Wishart?
May 27th, 2007 at 10:08 am
This is of course an example of the hypocrisy of the lefty.
Because lefties believe they’re fighting for truth and justice, they believe the end justifies any tactic.
That’s why commies used the gulags and restricted freedom of speech, because achieving utopia justified such oppression.
In reality of course it’s just venal political power, but that’s how they justified it to the people.
Regrettably it’s also obvious that those conducting the war on terror have adopted exactly the same tactics, thus proving it’s not just lefties that are venal power hungry megalomaniacs. I sometimes wonder why the intelligent commentators on this blog don’t talk about more about that side of the hypocrisy, or is it OK when it’s coming from your own side?
May 27th, 2007 at 10:08 am
I saw that Hagar was the author of the story, and opted not to read it.
Has the paper not learnt its lesson from his article claiming the SIS spies on the Maori Party?
He is not a journalist. His articles are opinion and belong on opinion pages, not news pages.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:21 am
gizzafeckinbreakhere..!..david..
you have just lurched into the lead for this months ‘faux-outrage/spin award’…
you would be equally ok with spies in national/your company..?
oh..!..that’s right..!..that’s already happened..!..eh..?
with cries/screams of outrage/renting of garments..on your part..
so..from your (published) differing attitudes..
can we conclude your stance is it is ok to spy on your (nationals’)natural ‘enemies’..?
but a no-no if the spying is on the lies/misrepresentations/malfeasance/schemings of national..?..(cf..’hollow-men’..)
and of course the shot-of-irony for us all here..
is that you defend the spying by the power company..’to protect the company’..
so..dosen’t that just strengthen the case of anyone spying on you lot…?
.’.to protect the economy/the country/us..’
from the damage you lot would do…
(y’know..privatising/flogging everything that isn’t nailed down off to your ‘mates’..?
the ‘finishing’ of your little rightwing revolution..?
and as noted elsewhere..
you look behind ‘flash-harry’ key..
and it is that some old bunch of tired skanks…
that were behind ‘the don’ brash..
ruthenasia/rogernomics whores/fag-ends..one and all..
the ‘hollow-men’ are still firmly in control of national..
the puppet-on-a-stick has just been changed/’renewed’..
otherwise..it’s ‘business-as-usual’..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 10:34 am
How are those polls looking Phil?
May 27th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Nicky Hager makes tens of thousands of dollars by publishing a book based on either stolen e-mails or information from a spy in National.
This fucker makes his money via capitalism , the system that he had lived all his life to deride. Is that a double standard? Definitely. If he hates capitalism so much, the he should publish his book and distribute it freely to the public, perhaps with the expenses in producing it to be deducted. Pocketing the money, is what capitalism is all about. He should give away all profits made from book sales to charities.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:01 am
“Nicky Hager makes tens of thousands of dollars by publishing a book based on either stolen e-mails or information from a spy in National.”
Or, from a disgruntled National party member/staffer (which in ordinary parlance is not a ’spy’). Or, from clumsy information security from an inept and loyal member of the National party.
The truth is that you do not know, not to mention that an ‘email’ cannot be ’stolen’.
With not one shred of evidence of a ’spy’ or of a ‘theft’ regarding the damning National/Brash emails, and an admission in the case of Happy Valley, it is crystal clear that Hager is well within his rights to be outraged.
You must still be bitter over Hager proving Brash to be nothing but a hollow puppet of big business. That work finished of a leader of a major party, plain and simple, get over it.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:16 am
how are those coalition partners looking..?..mark..?..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 11:19 am
Phil I think you are wrong about Key and National.
The polls show the utter failure of the traditional conservative movement. NZers don’t want it – look at ACT, now polling lower than United Future for heaven’s sake.
The conservatism that you speak of is nothing more than a plague ship, although you wouldn’t think so by right wing comment in the blogosphere.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:30 am
… that work finished [off] … sorry.
And phil, not a single person has answered the claims in the Hollow Men, all they have done is cry about his means, without any proof of what they were. It is remarkable, especially when they were so damning and resulted in their leader falling on his sword.
And look at the National party now, dead centre. Smacking, emissions, … complaints that kiwisaver will not help poor people, wow.
Either their entire outlook has shifted away from the poison of the right, or they are simply handing out rope for which to quickly hang themselves with when in power.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:38 am
james..
i’m actually ’saving-up’ the ‘hollow-men’..
i view it as a valuable textbook/primer on national party practises/techniques..
and i see it coming into its’ own as a ‘compare-and-contrast’ tool..
during next years’ election campaign..
eh..?..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Well, they’re currently polling over 50% so probably don’t need any. You did School C maths didn’t you Phil?
May 27th, 2007 at 12:16 pm
Two points:
Hager has NEVER declared himself to any form of blanket anti-capitalist.
This kind of rubbish is propagated by those who proudly proclaim that they haven’t/won’t read his work.
There isn’t a political blogger in NZ who would amount to Hager’s little toenail in terms of their impact in the media. Eat your shrivelled litttle hearts out.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:27 pm
you just hold that thought/keep on believing that delusion..eh mark..?
and then get back to me after the next election..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Well, they’re currently polling over 50% so probably don’t need any. You did School C maths didn’t you Phil?
May 27th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
No worries. I’ve saved this page in my favourites and I’ll check it again in a year and a half. I understand your frustration though – it must be extremely demoralising when you’re getting absolutely caned as the left is these days. Grin and bear it Phil, the sun will rise again tomorrow.
May 27th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
He was there, he just can’t remember it.
A lot like yesterday.
And this morning.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
“There isn’t a political blogger in NZ who would amount to Hager’s little toenail in terms of their impact in the media. Eat your shrivelled litttle hearts out.”
Very true
May 27th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Dave,
I was getting somewhat disconcerted about how much I was agreeing with some of the issues you are blogging on especially as you are a dangerous enemy of the left.
It is good them that you came out with some blatant right wing apologism so that I can disagree and we can redefine these boundaries.
There is no irony wih Hagar exposing this spying that Solid Energy should be thoroughly condemned for. You claim that the members of the Save Happy Valley have undertaken illegal acts but do not list any. Surely this is unfair and you should rectify this as soon as possible.
You also claim ‘If a group is known to be planning what might effectively be sabotage, are you then justified in trying to find out to protect the company?’ The answer is of course no. They should use the police like the rest of the people in New Zealand.
Hagar claimed that he got his stuff from National Party sources. He did NOT pay them to spy on the National Party. The anology is weak and not up to your usual high standards.
See http://www.redrasputin.blog.com for a more detailed critique but dave i do think you need to jusify yourself more here especially as I do rate your analytical and empirical skills! I look forward to reading it!
Red Rasputin
http://www.redrasputin.blog.com
May 27th, 2007 at 1:10 pm
And National has only started polling well since Key has taken you to the left of what is after all a rather “middle of the road” old Labour Party.
And he can afford to do so, after all where else has the dinosaur right-wing conservative vote go to go?
This is why National hasn’t really detailed any actual policy for years. They know that if they announced anything that the electorate would accept, Labour is ideologically placed to trump it with their own version….and if they announced their real agenda they also know the electorate would give it the same reception that the ACT party gets.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:14 pm
James – the Hager book was rebutted within 48 hours of its publication. And yes it had an impact – as I am sure a year worth of e-mails from Helen, Michael and their top advisers would also.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:16 pm
I don’t see what is illegal about the allegations. So maybe the analogy is very good.
If Solid Energy had a bunch of people reading the newspapers to see what protest groups were saying, that would be good business. If they read blogs and newsgroups, also good business. If they ask/consult with the groups themselves, also good business. If they pay someone to tell them what the groups are thinking and doing – aaarrrrrggggghhhhhh evil bastards.
Am I the only one thinking “storm in a teacup”?
May 27th, 2007 at 1:24 pm
you just hold that thought/keep on believing that delusion/spin..david..
and then get back to me after the next election..eh..?
(i think you are guilty of believing your own spin..eh..?..)
we most certainly haven’t heard the last of ‘the hollow men’..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 1:26 pm
James Cairney said…
You must still be bitter over Hager proving Brash to be nothing but a hollow puppet of big businesses.
Well, well, well Mr. Cairney, I thought that you declared sometime ago that would be saving energy by shutting your computer down for good and never made any post on the internet. Are you a hypocrite, I bet you are.
Don Brash, had never been a puppet of big businesses. Besides, big businesses make the world go round. See, you’re using a computer which had been manufactured by the very big businesses (Intel, Microsoft, Telecom, etc,…) in which their very existence ,you abhorred . You drive a car that wasn’t manufactured by yourself but by big businesses, you use a cell-phone which wasn’t produced by you leftist useless leeching comrades , but by big businesses , you do use airplanes which were the products of big businesses, your underwear that you’re currently wearing is a product from big businesses and so forth. Stop being a fuck’n hypocrite leecher. Start producing yourself for something to be traded with other members of the society such as business people before you can criticize useful people who produced products for unproductive people like you to leech from.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
“the Hager book was rebutted within 48 hours of its publication”
Rubbish. What of significance was false? And why the resignation?
You are blind.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
(heh-heh..!..)
that wickets’ abitofalarf..!..eh..?..)
(not quite yet frothing..just bubbling under..)
watch out..!..step wellback..!
i think he/she is about to blow..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 27th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Prove your comment or fuck off wicket, people like you are an internet disease. And the plague that this site never seems to shake (funny that, being a right wing site).
You are an anonymous coward, and a fact averse loser. Let’s play you pathetic joke, what do you have?
May 27th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
What is your name wicket? Front up.
May 27th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
“Well, well, well Mr. Cairney, I thought that you declared sometime ago that would [sic] be saving energy by shutting your computer down for good and never made [sic] any post on the internet”
Prove it jerk, and give me a name you fucking coward.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
No james, it’s all the dills like you in the Lapour Party who are blind. The worst day’s work you ever did was conspire to undermine Dr Brash. You are getting your just deserts.
May 27th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Now the SST has employed Nicky Hager as a journalist (in some form or another) we can hopefully expect the SST will make sure his pieces meet the usual standards demanded by the press council (eg such things as making “proper distinctions between reporting of facts and conjecture, passing of opinions and comment”).
I’m not really sure his first piece really passes muster, probably a mark of “could do better”. Some little examples:
Hager builds a thesis that Solid Energy knew all about the protests last month where Happy Valley protesters chained themselves to the lines (conjecture) and claims that because Solid Energy did nothing to stop the action (conjecture) this demonstrates they were more concerned about painting Happy Valley protesters in a bad light than preventing loss (comment).
On the facts as presented all we actually know is that Ryan had been telling Thompson & Clark about what Happy Valley was up to. Hager presents no facts that this particular incident was even reported to Thompson % Clark, and can not know on the information provided in the story if it was reported to Solid Energy. Unfortunately Hager’s and the SST’s failure to distinguish fact from comment and conjecture leaves the reader thinking that Solid Energy was up to no good on this particular account(Hager’s opinion).
In fact this little story get curiouser and curiouser, because one of the facts reported by Hager is that the email system went astray on 3 April. Presumably there was little communicated beyond that point and Ryan would be under suspicion (conjecture). The protest occurred over three weeks later on 30 April. If Hager and the SST have evidence to support their conjecture that Thompson & Clakr were definitely informed of the protest they really should have shared it with us readers.
In much the same vein we are told that “information gathered suggests Somail began working for Thompson & Clark two years ago”. However Somail denies this. Rather than trouble us, the readers, with the information gathered so we can perhaps make our own judgment on this conjecture, Hager and the SST devote a couple of columns commenting on the enormity of someone trusted possibly turning out not to be what you thought.
I’d say good story, but rather ruined by the SST using Hager to write it. But then again they mightn’t have had much choice – Happy Valley going to Hager who takes it to the SST seems more likely. If you were the SST and got this story directly you’d give it to one of your own people first (conjecture).
May 27th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
hmmm, not really feeling any ‘just deserts’ Adolf, and I am no friend of the Labour party. And I am actually enjoying National’s move to the centre, it is a good thing :>
Do you normally miss the point by that much? You are pissing in the wind my friend.
Still not rebuttal of the Hollow Men, and we are exactly how many months on now? Anyone who has read it can tell Key is taking the lessons in it (and from it) very seriously. Again, that is a positive. Remember who Hager dedicated it to after all!
May 27th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Like Mr Elder I can’t see what all the fuss is about. The company has a duty to its shareholders to produce a legitimate profit and if subversives want to obstruct them they need to take steps to protect their business. …Liabour owes their own industrial spy HAger big time, so expect Mallard to wave the big stick at Solid Energy.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
This is a pretty good attempt at obfuscation/spin it must be said David, full marks to you. Fortunately there are plenty of us here to keep you honest. Though really, picking apart your argument hasn’t been a huge challenge. In one case you have solid energy’s covert infiltration of a non-profit organisation trying to protect our natural heritage, and in the other you have an investigative journalist who has had a whole bunch of emails dumped on him by a group of National Party staffers who were discussed with the Machiavellian and unprincipled nature of its leadership. No, Nicky Hagar is in fact a hero, he has done this little democracy a huge service by showing us just how vulnerable we are to being hijacked by ridiculously wealthy special interest groups.
Also, one point that hasn’t been addressed
“Save Happy Valley is not just a protest group, but often breaks the law in their attempts to physically disrupt Solid Energy’s legal operations.”
Can you site some incidents of this please?
May 27th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
This is a pretty good attempt at obfuscation/spin it must be said David, full marks to you. Fortunately there are plenty of us here to keep you honest. Though really, picking apart your argument hasn’t been a huge challenge. In one case you have solid energy’s covert infiltration of a non-profit organisation trying to protect our natural heritage, and in the other you have an investigative journalist who has had a whole bunch of emails dumped on him by a group of National Party staffers who were discussed with the Machiavellian and unprincipled nature of its leadership. No, Nicky Hagar is in fact a hero, he has done this little democracy a huge service by showing us just how vulnerable we are to being hijacked by ridiculously wealthy special interest groups.
Also, one point that hasn’t been addressed
“Save Happy Valley is not just a protest group, but often breaks the law in their attempts to physically disrupt Solid Energy’s legal operations.”
Can you site some incidents of this please?
May 27th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Like Mr Elder I can’t see what all the fuss is about. The company has a duty to its shareholders … ”
it’s a SOE Baxter.
May 27th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Good old happy valley protesters like the imported spunk bubble Yankee blond paid by whomever to stop the mining in the area. I used to trap the area for the possum fir. I bet the professional protesters are comforted by the fact that the miners have assisted them on numerous occasions with things like hypothermia, medical treatment, transport and helping them when they get get lost, as the terrain is fill of dangerous holes etc. Me fair dinkem West Coast mate and handy spy Johnny Beware from Denniston is thankful they’re hanging around, as he is making a fortune selling the foolish gits prime West Coast bud and the locals are in awe of their stupidity in area prone to historical tragedies. The anti mining protesters are total stoned up utopian freaks – ask any worker at the Stockton Mine – common knowledge nicky wicky wankster.
As far as the terp Mrs Hagar goes –he is just a toilet brush for supreme leader and her communist cohorts.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
What a lovely man you are D4J – spreading you own unique brand of lunacy and malicious smear wherever you go.
May 27th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
DPF said “James – the Hager book was rebutted within 48 hours of its publication. And yes it had an impact – as I am sure a year worth of e-mails from Helen, Michael and their top advisers would also.”
Especially a year’s worth of e-mails about Taito, tiling, immigration and Noel Ingram QC. Now that would be a book worth reading indeed!!!
May 27th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
PJ – all of the above is the truth and I have more on those tree hugging creeps – keep pushing you tug muscle – Johnny Beware tells me that the fools tried to grow their own dope this season and just like their lives – they failed !!
May 27th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
The possums ate it -lol
May 27th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
“the Hager book was rebutted within 48 hours of its publication”
Rubbish. What of significance was false? And why the resignation?
You are blind.”
No.
The whole book “The Hollow Men” was opinion.
A giant leap of faith is required to match the intent of Don Brash made by Hagar, to any of the contents of the emails, of which more than a few are considered to be doctored. Without a source, Hagar cannot claim anything is fact, unless the people he names admit to it. It’s just his interpretation, which has a tone of outrage from page one.
The “Neo Con connection” was reconstructed from an email of introduction before a hasty meeting and an email after the meeting from Don Brash saying thanks for your time. The two or three pages in the Hollow Men of what went on in that meeting were a complete fabrication by Hagar based on what he thought was likely to have happened. No one knows what went on except Don Brash and Dick Allen. Only the politically naive would think that Don Brash could manage to do anything inside of a single short meeting with a man he had never met before. Mathew Hooten warned Brash of Allen’s public image, but sugessted that Allen could supply some serious funding. Brash wanted Washington contacts. Read the tone of the email from Brash, sent after the meeting to Allen, and tell me it says anything other than:
“Thanks, not interested in your ideas, but would like to meet Washington contacts.”
I don’t know how anyone who has experienced even low level office politics could miss the sentiment.
The final laugh came a little later when Allen was asked about being called a “rightwing nut” by the Left and the suggestion he was “loaded” with prospective National Party funds. He says:
“I am the grandfather of 20 children and my wife and I are returning to the US this week to receive our 21st. If anyone thinks you can be loaded, have seven children and 21 grandchildren, they must have another think coming.”
Secondly, the night Hagar’s book was published, Gerry Brownlee and Richard Prebble were interviewed by John Campbell and Richard said this (and I’m running on memory here, Nov 2006) :
“Hagar says that I and Rodger Douglas appointed Don Brash as Governor of the Reserve bank. Well I’m sorry to say that I never had that much Power. Don Brash was appointed by David Lange, and I remember at the time advising against it. I have never been part of a rightwing conspiracy, and if Hagar had cared to call me I would have told him so. But he doesn’t call anyone.”
It’s a fairly startling mistake to make, accusing people of conspiracies that could not have happened. Hagar is not a very good journalist when he is blinded by his own opinion.
A few days before, Campbell interviewed Brash and asked him about The Bretheren. Brash wondered about the influence of the Unions and Labour. John Campbell’s reply was that “everyone knows about the unions and Labour”. That sums up the left’s problem and suggests at their proven hypocrisy. They just don’t know, there was no proof and there still isn’t. It annoys the hell out of them, but it hasn’t stopped them saying that there was a real factual link.
In Hagar’s book Don Brash uses the term “hold them at arms length”. The context was that the Bretheren contacted Brash about their plans and he said whoa, hold on there this may be illegal, go see the Chief Electoral Officer. As he should have. And they did. And the Bretheren changed their plans.
There were no emails in that book that came close to saying:
“Yes, our caucus is in agreement, we will run a joint campaign.”
Judging by the extent of the topic matter and candid tones, I find it extraordinary that there are not. If it were a court case, I would suggest reasonable doubt.
Yet further into the book, Don Brash, our “mastermind of counter revolutionary war”, was asking MP’s and Party officials to send him written suggestions for party strategy. Strategy is never written down. It raised a few eyebrows at the time and should have rung alarm bells to any reader. A man who leaves paper trails of strategy that can be ‘lost’ or ‘leaked’ is hardly capable of running a covert parallel campaign. Would you think?
Why the resignation?
There was a major split in the National Party. Don Brash only represented one faction. National was never going to present a united face under him or receive the full financial backing of their supporters. John Key was a compromise to bring the two halves together. Do you not remember the forced grins and bargaining over Brownlee and English during the change over? The men who were and remain influential in the caucus and Party have never been in the public eye since Key took power. Do you think they have dried up and blown away? They are still there. A big chunk of support money was never going to arrive while Don Brash was leader.
And Hagar has never been aligned with anti-capitalist blah blah blah…?
Well who knows. I do remember reading a bio on Hagar where he includes his time with an extreme politico/enviro group who were nick named by people they had pissed off as: “The Weasels”. It was published on scoop for anyone who can be bothered. And of course being on scoop it may not have been worth a damn. Who needs that crap when the more concrete evidence stands?
May 27th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Phillip John whines:
Also, one point that hasn’t been addressed
“Save Happy Valley is not just a protest group, but often breaks the law in their attempts to physically disrupt Solid Energy’s legal operations.”
Can you site some incidents of this please?
Oh please. Phillip John should read beyond peak oil conspiracies – then he might catch up. Remember how this group of environmental vandalists blocked off a railway line (illegally, Phillip John, illegally) to make a point? In fact, do these fuckwits even have a point, other than showing off useless snails?
But anyway Phillip John, these people have broken the law left, right and centre.
How’s that thesis coming along, Phillip John?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Peak oil conspiricy:
who do you usualy post as?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
pj the last time I saw him, he called himself Anti-thesis? Remember him?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:14 pm
I’ve been lurking in the shadow of Kiwiblog. But no matter. Want to comment on the issue? We’ve just found one example of illegal acts by an extremist protest group. What do you make of it all?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:15 pm
“The whole book “The Hollow Men” was opinion”
My favourite ‘opinion’ in the book was that of Lindsay Perigo’s, in his email to Brash dated 9 Dec 04, he stated:
“the reason I didn’t go to the Nat’s party last night is that I couldn’t have coped with socialising with such horrible, unprincipled homophobes. Your caucus is despicable, and your own recent conduct -a disgrace to your late father- is little better. You have succumbed to McCullyism, and there is nothing more despicable in politics than that … in sorrow and in anger, your former friend, Linz.”
The funny thing Horace, is that the book is anything but opinion. It lets the reader form their own. One can draw what they may from the emails, be it the one above, or those attempting to keep the Allen meeting secret, or the infamous Hickmot “Good afternoon Don and John”, (the latter being sure to be dusted off by some in 2008).
Conclude what you may, but no person who read it can keep a straight face when stating the book had nothing to do with Brash’s resignation, you were either taking the piss or you win this week’s naivety award.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:21 pm
No Adolf. Do you know his real name?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
” … such horrible, unprincipled homophobes. Your caucus is despicable … ”
Bloody hell, he could just as easily be referring to the kiwiblog regulars.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pm
Phillip John: are you trying to get back into the gulag business or something? My name is no business of yours, thank you, and I take no particular interest in “outing” your family name. It’s a total distraction from the issue. I suppose you want to unmask Sonic, Redbaiter et al? Now can we look forward to your on-topic comments?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
James – of course the book was a significant factor in Brash’s resignation. Not because there was any proof of wrong doing, but because it would have been impossible for National led by Brash to set the political agenda – they would have spent months defending or explaining the book.
Brash may have resigned (or been challenged) at some stage anyway. The book was a catalyst but not a cause. And ironically it helped National as Don resigning without a coup challenge meant a smooth takeover by John and Bill.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
What are you afraid of POC?
May 27th, 2007 at 5:38 pm
“they would have spent months defending or explaining the book”
Yes, quite.
May 27th, 2007 at 5:41 pm
For christ’s sake – why not ask Adolf Finkensein to reveal his identity then? And every other anonymous poster. And give us your family name. What difference does it make?
Get back to debating the issues.
I provided you with one response to your question above. And I’m waiting for you to extend the same courtesy.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
POC
Most of us hear at least use a consistent name. This means that we can be held to our previous statements/actions, which gives one a certain amount of credibility/veracity.
You say you’ve been lurking on kiwiblog? So am I to take it that you’ve used other names? If so what have they been?
May 27th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
You speak of credibility/veracity? Hrumph. Try googling the incident I referred to, and you’ll see I’m absolutely correct. That’s credibility/veracity for you. Unlike you Phillip John who even managed to pass off part of a Wikipedia article as your own – and then when called on it, you offered mealy-mouthed excuses, like “I forgot”. Is that where academic ethics are at these days? Oh and by lurking I mean sit in the background and read the comments. I’m still waiting for your response to mine.
May 27th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
I’ll reference the link (wouldn’t want to be accused of fudging the facts): http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2007/05/a_tribute_to_communism.html#comment-328086
May 27th, 2007 at 6:27 pm
“That’s credibility/veracity for you. Unlike you Phillip John who even managed to pass off part of a Wikipedia article as your own”
Failing to put quotation marks around that cut and paste was an honest mistake. I also make grammatical mistakes in my posts – after all this isn’t exactly the wall street journal.
So, to reiterate … have you used other names to post on kiwiblog? If so what have they been. What can you possibly loose by answering these questions?
May 27th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
This kind of nonsense wouldn’t even meet the public gaze if the government just frigging well sold off Solid Energy. What the hell is the state doing owning a coal mining company, anyhow?
May 27th, 2007 at 7:20 pm
The state owning a mining company – now there is a big can of worms – who owns the mineral rights on the West Coast – ouch , say no more ?
May 27th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
Still waiting POC … Answer the questions or I won’t be indulging your strange little obsession with me any more.
May 27th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Phillip John – I’m not obliged to disclose my identity, and I don’t intend to, so get back on the thread subject. It’s completely irrelevant to the thread topic. Meanwhile Sonic, Redbaiter and Adolf Finkensein – and even Insolent Prick – remain at large. Quick Phillip John – hunt them down and “out” them for us.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:13 pm
I haven’t read all of the above but there is a definite trend with Philipjohn, james cairney and other lefties vigorously defending Hagar.
Isn’t this the same Hagar that Clark called, along with John Campbell, a `dirty little creep’ or similar not too many years ago when `Corngate’ erupted in her face.
Seems he is the great White Knight in shining armour now.
Hypocracy reigns supreme!!!
May 27th, 2007 at 8:21 pm
OK POC, you can talk to yourself from now on – enjoy.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
james cairney,
You seem to think that because a gay man doesn’t like Don Brash and his fellows, Hagar is all fact.
I don’t recall where it is written that accusing someone of “homophobia” is a crime. More often than not, people like yourself suggest that if one is accused, then they’re also guilty of anything else you want to alledge.
You use that line two posts later as you label all kiwiblog commenters as homophobes because you can’t stand by your own opinion while others disagree.
Truely Pathetic.
What can anyone say to a person like you? You’re not here for fact, or reason or discussion, but to try to push your personal agenda.
Wise up, boy. You can’t use who you sleep with to hide the obvious.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
Firstly pdm, it is Hager, not Hagar.
Secondly, show me my ‘hypocracy’ [sic] regarding Hager and his work. Otherwise fuck off.
The Hollow Men is outstanding, and no snide remark from Clark/Brash or anyone else changes that. Losers like you (who have clearly not read it) should keep your mouths shut as you look pathetic, it is little wonder you are not confident enough to post under a real name when you have only a faint grasp of the issue, and not a single fact to back up your use of strong words like hypocrisy.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
even national condemned it saying it was a waste of tax payers money, Trevor mallard said he will talk to SE management and the greens called for Don Elder to resign.
the spy admitted to it on 3 news tonight so it is not an allegation.
fill report :
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0705/S00482.htm
this is the third time the state owned enterprise (whose sole shareholder are the nz government) has been court spying.
david farrer why do you defend this?
can you detail what actions you believe the protest group has illegally done that you think requires infiltration by a spy firm.
the tactic has been widely condemned:
“It’s absurd and extremely worrying that a commercial enterprise owned by the government is employing KGB tactics to snoop on citizens trying to save the habitats of native snails,” said The Council for Civil Liberties president Michael Bott.
May 27th, 2007 at 8:58 pm
Horace,
My point with the Perigo email was merely to show the book is not ‘opinion’, any more than than it is the sum total of the opinions of those whose emails are there for all to see. Perigo was Brash’s friend, I have never had an email like that from one of my friends, therefore I can draw my own ‘opinions’ as to Brash’s quality as a ‘friend’, or in any other regard, as I see fit. Hager does not impose his opinion as opposed to show fact, and leave it to the reader.
The amount of factual material in the book in fact leaves little room for the author’s opinion, the book is perhaps unique in that regard. Compare it to, say, a Michael Moore and you get the point.
So need I remind you of your comment: “The whole book “The Hollow Men” was opinion.”
Hmmmmmmm?
So facts Horace,
Explain the Hickmot email ….
It is a ‘fact’ after all.
And that is just a start. Attempt to defend the indefensible Horace, it will be fun …
Or you could (and this is my pick of what you will do) avoid the allegations laid out crystal clear in the book, instead moaning about my motives (as you have already done), or you could try to discredit me, or you could make wild, ludicrous and false allegations (such as the those educational failures wicket and pdm have done), you could misrep my own position (such as Adolf- like it somehow matters?), you could focus on how Hager got the emails (such as Farrar), or speculate that Labour emails would be just as damning (Farrar again, with support). Or, you could do one of the two things all of you have avoided, either answer the bloody allegations (and there is hundreds of them) or admit Brash was a dishonest puppet for a hidden agenda.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:06 pm
I was intrigued the spokesperson for the group expressed outrage that this “spy” had managed to achieve access to the group’s strategies, tactics and plans. The idea that this group was hatching secretive strategies, tactics and plans sort of puts them into the “legitimate target” category, doesn’t it? I am not necessarily condoning what Solid Energy did…but it’s not like this group operated a “public forum and letter writing” campaign. This group went about its business in a secretive and slightly underhand way. Sure, they may have believed it was legitimate given their perceptions about the importance of this issue – but it does make you the target of more aggressive counter attacks. It’s a bit like terrorists gleefully shooting at soldiers then claiming the soldiers are acting illegally by shooting “civilians” when they return fire.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:18 pm
James, Horace bitchslapped you good and proper boy, I love it! And your rebuttal is…
“It’s not just opinion, na man, umm, Lindsay Perigo sent an email!”
The contents of which are nothing more than his opinion.
You’re getting caned mate, and you look rather silly.
May 27th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I can see the headlines now James:
“Man has falling out with friend”
Stop the press!
May 27th, 2007 at 9:33 pm
where is the link? are you condoning murder of civilians as well?
the protest group has done a large letter writing campaign (if you go to the website you can order postcards to send to labour mps or sign them at stalls).
any group that has plans that aren’t open are now a target are they craster?
could you back up you’re allegations and state why you support governments spying (solid energy is a state owned company) on their citizens.
david farrer would you care to expand why you support such draconian, underhand tactics? it should be noted that peace action wellington and another group were also spied on by thompson and clark (with a wellington student infiltrator).
also this is the third time they have been caught spying on the save happy valley coalition – can they really be that dangerous to spent that much taxpayers money on monitoring?
May 27th, 2007 at 9:50 pm
helmet, is that all you have, what was Hager’s opinion about the Perigo email? Was the Perigo email Hager’s ‘opinion’- well was it?! The content of the email was not argued to be scandalous per se (that is not a point I expect you to be able to understand, so you don’t have to try). The email was a representation of the book not being based entirely on Hager’s opinion, as asserted by (Horace/you?) or whatever anonymous coward too ashamed of their opinion to genuinely front up!
Not only do you not understand the debate, but you haven’t even read the book- What a loser!
explain the Hickmot email helmet,
the Allen meeting secrecy,
Orewa?
So Helmet (horace?), do you have a single thing? I would hide behind an alias if I were you too champ, Loser!
I predicted a loser like you would crawl out of the woodwork with nothing at all helmet, and you took the bait! pure gold boy!
You have proven my last post true to the core, and for that I thank you. Do it again, come back with nothing at all about the Hollow Men allegations.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:11 pm
Fact is that Nicky Hager did not pay the person inside the National Party to give him information. That person gave him the documents without being planted and payed. Solid Energy on the other hand planted and payed their persons. Disgraceful and desperate.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Fact is that Nicky Hager did not pay the person inside the National Party to give him information. That person gave him the documents without being planted and payed. Solid Energy on the other hand planted and payed their persons. Disgraceful and desperate.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:37 pm
“ironically it helped National as Don resigning without a coup challenge meant a smooth takeover by John and Bill.”
Which, it’s perfectly fair to speculate, was the intention of those who supplied Hager with the emails/evidence.
No doubt the ’stolen emails’ whining from the ‘they hanged my saintly Don’ clique will continue long after pretty much everyone else has forgotten The Hollow Men.
Hager regularly speaks at public venues around the country. He takes questions from the floor, and from what I’ve seen is adept at handling challenges. Considering the feathers he’s ruffled on both sides of politics (don’t tell me that Helen doesn’t loathe the guy) remarkably few have taken advantage of the opportunity to even publicly heckle him. If you really believe the stolen emails hype, do something about it. You have every opportunity.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:39 pm
Yes Phillip John – I see you can’t address my comment – which was very simple for a post-graduate student one would have thought. But feel free to share your family name with the Kiwiblog community since identity is so important to you. What a hypocrite.
May 27th, 2007 at 10:45 pm
James Cairney said…
You are an anonymous coward, and a fact averse loser. Let’s play you pathetic joke, what do you have?
James, I am a productive member of the society whom I co-own (with 3 others) a start-up software business. Our software products are deployed to run power stations and we’re just about to release a production version targeting running large scale control systems for telecommunication switching network. We employ scientists who’ve got doctorates in Mathematics, Physics, Electrical Engineering, Computational Scientists.We’ve got private investors that have joined the business recently, and we’re targeting an aggressive growth in Europe, Asia and North America.
It is producers like myself, that produce products for the betterment & advancement of civilization and not losers like yourself, the Happy Valley dole bludgers , whingers as Nicky Hager, the Greens, tree-huggers (Phil Ure & Sonic) and all the anti-humans out there . It is businesses that keeps the clock tick for the society. I produced something that keeps your power supply at home reliable.
Why on earth, fuckers like you, and all the lefties & leechers of the society do berate businesses , especially big corporates? Do you feel incompetent in life, that you jealous that some entrepreneurs out there make it and you don’t? What is our crimes ? What have we (businesses) done to useless of the society like yourself and the tree-huggers? I do create jobs for my employees. All the fucking lefties out there want to stop us (businesses) from doing what we’re good at and that is to produce for the society? Do you drive a car, don’t you? Do you use a computer (it is obvious), don’t you? You’re enjoying these products produced by big businesses, without them you would still be living in the ice age lifestyle as we know it. Give a fucking credit to big businesses for a second will you?
Tell me, what has the Happy Valley dole bludgers produce for the society? Nothing at all. All they do is trespassing & damaging private properties. Can you stand if I would turn up at your house and demand that you shouldn’t do this or do that in your own property? I don’t think that you will accept people telling you what you can or can’t do with your own property and that is exactly why Solid Energy is fed up with Save Happy Valley interference in its own affairs in its own property.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
Thompson & Clark’s behaviour is illegal – under the private investigators and security guards act, all private investigators and employees thereof MUST be registered with the private investigators registrar. Neither Ryan nor Somali are.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
“Give a fucking credit to big businesses for a second will you?”
Why bother? As long as you’re on deck, they’ll never have to buy a toilet roll as long as they live.
One other thing – I realise that there are some great urban myths at large in the small-boy IT sector, but these Solid Energy types don’t actually live in their coal mines. Might be handy to know next time you’re seized with an overwhelming urge to kiss corporate butt.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:17 pm
thats the most bigoted rant i have heard in some time
legitimate concerns about global warming and biodiversity are what spy group was trying to mess with by infiltrating and monitoring.
rant to the act party if you want someone to clap about your business commitment and work life.
the point is a right to freedom of expression is ment to be guaranteed in a democratic society.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
Again wicket, you loser, put up or shut up, you stated:
“Well, well, well Mr. Cairney, I thought that you declared sometime ago that would [sic] be saving energy by shutting your computer down for good and never made [sic] any post on the internet”
Back it up you coward, prove it, prove I stated that, or fuck off. You simply cannot, because I stated no such thing. Yet you will not apologise nor retract, because you have no integrity, no honour, no spine, you are an illiterate anonymous loser with not a shred of credibility.
(As an aside, who is it that someone of your gutter level of integrity votes for?).
eh Wicket, who?
May 27th, 2007 at 11:27 pm
“rant to the act party if you want someone to clap about your business commitment and work life.
the point is a right to freedom of expression is ment to be guaranteed in a democratic society.”
Bullshit…..Lefty “human rights” anti discrimination laws put paid to that.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
put paid to SOE companies behaving? if it were up to solid energy they would be digging up kiwi habitat in happy valley right now.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
James Cairney said…
you are an illiterate anonymous loser
Well James, that’s right, I am illiterate because as you know it that I design very complex industrial software systems.
It this you here : James Cairney? Well, your profile looks like a loser, because it only has these:
Gender: Male
Occupation : Toilet Cleaner
Location: Auckland : New Zealand
How, sad?
I am not going to reveal my name as it is none of your business. I run a business and that interest has to be protected, since revealing my name would be damaging to future capital raising or when we go IPO (initial public offering) at some stage.
In the meantime, I have 2 vacant positions that needs to be filled immediately in my company.
Position #1:
PhD in Digital Signal Processing, background in Telecommunications, DCS (Direct Control Systems), Network Communication Systems.
Position #2:
B.Sc in toilet cleaning, with 5 years experience.
Ok, James, if you don’t have the proper skills required for Position #1, then Position #2 is definitely yours.
May 27th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
coming from a climate skeptic – the only one left of which is peter dunne.
really grow up. i hope to see Unite visit youre company if you plan on talking to anyone who works for you like that.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:51 am
wicket:
I see that you’ve given up trying to rebut James’ statements regarding the thread topic, and instead have devoted your last two posts entirely to vicious personal attacks. A surer sign that you’ve hopelessly lost the argument couldn’t exist.
May 28th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Getting quite exciteable these socialists these days, wonder if they have seen the polls? Wonder if thats why Andrew Little has decided a safe labour seat is an oxymoron these days? Well, well, the Clark legacy is finally starting to firm up. “a new standard of integrity and accountability” indeed.
For little PJ to start talking about ethics and standards of discourse is of course a bit rich.
He still hasn’t acknowledged that vandalism and obstructing railway lines qualify as illegal acts, ie. young PJ’s normal standard of comprehension and debate.
Finished that sociology masters yet? best you think of staying on at varsity boy, that safe job with the socialists is looking a bit shaky at the moment. At least you’ll have all those “real” feminists to continue lusting after… good luck with that (lost) cause too. Hint- wymmin hate people like you even more than they hate the boofheads.
No idea who Cairney is, but a foul mouthed little shit is how he presents. So I assume he is from the Auckland young labour movement.
May 28th, 2007 at 7:54 am
Just watched Dear Leader on the morning news saying that the spying was “unacceptable behaviour” for an SOE. That begs the question – is it as unacceptable as attempting to gain political advantage from the use of documents gained by questionable, if not illegal means?
May 28th, 2007 at 8:14 am
SOE – legal behaviour – immoral
Protestors – illegal behaviour – moral and justifiable.
Oh well some people just thrive on the double standard
This protest group (the Happy Valley Group) are not nice and cuddly, they are motivated by ideas that have nothing to do with coal mines. They are motivated by anarchy and no doubt our taxes fund their activities.
Just listening to the informant. What an implausible chap. Got paid. Didn’t know who was employing him, but he did pay tax – yeah right. Methinks he is just a part of the whole little protest game.
May 28th, 2007 at 8:40 am
I don’t think the comparisons between Nikcy Hager and the Thomson & Clark clowns is valid. Nicky Hager doesn’t plant spies and he doesn’t pay for the information with tax payer’s money.
There’s a big difference between Nkcy Hager’s whistle blowers and Thompsan & Clark’s spies.
May 28th, 2007 at 8:52 am
Had to chuckle at the report on ZB this morning quoting the spokesperson (yech!) for “Global Truth & Justice” one John Minto who had some sort of opinion on the espionage matter. Could this be the same urban terrorist, useless twat, oxygen thief and perpetual beneficiary John Minto that was one of the architects of the riots during the Springbok Tour?
Perhaps he has finally seen the light of Capitalism and has created some nice charitable causes to be the beneficiary, sole member and “spokesperson” (yech!) of.
Why oh why do the media give this sort of twat airtime? Surely there must be better quotes available or are they too lazy to go out and get them so read off the fax machine instead?
May 28th, 2007 at 9:21 am
Oh look a Labour/NZFirst/Greens government proxy – spying on people, preventing their right to protest. Helen says she is upset, be prepared in the coming weeks she will do absolutely nothing about it.
Bet if this were a private company and not a wholly owned subsidiary of the state this would never happen.
May 28th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Nigel – it’s funny isn’t it how our resident global warming expert Phillip John utilises the weapon of mass distraction (trying to “out” me) instead of addressing the issue? He was clearly expecting that no one would be able to stump up with evidence of illegality by this fringe protest group. How wrong he was!
May 28th, 2007 at 10:13 am
I’ve monitored groups like this, usually via publicly available information. I;ve never considered using PIs, the police were always very cooperative in providing information. They usually have either people inside them or good sources.
These groups are not beyond spying themselves, Greenpeace is known for it. Their methods can be similar (without the intent) to terrorists, which is why they are taken seriously by some. I know of NZ environmental activists being caught by police overseas taking photos of sensitive installations.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:18 am
The CEO of Solid Energy would have been judged incompetent and unfit to hold his position if the business he was charged with running had been severely disrupted by actions that he had not taken steps to forsee.
The concept of the righteous (sp?) protestor who can be excused for breaking the law as long as the reasons are “right” deserves to be consigned to the dustbin of history along with the “noble savage” and Trotter’s “.. breaking the law with regard to the Electoral Act and the Pledge Card spending was justified in the context of maintaining Labour’s grip on power”
May 28th, 2007 at 10:54 am
The CEO of Solid Energy would have been judged incompetent and unfit to hold his position…
By Solid Energy’s shareholder representatives Helen Clark, Michael Cullen, Kieth Locke, Sue Bradford, et al.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Do you think he would get along with Ian Wishart?
Posted by kiwi_donkey | May 27, 2007 10:00 AM
I wouldn’t think so.
I don’t really like the style off either one, but Wishart’s stories tend to focus on what goes on in the privacy of people’s bedrooms, while Hager is generally more concerned with things that go on in the privacy of people’s boardrooms.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:10 am
“Why oh why do the media give this sort of twat airtime?’
They sympathize with his views.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:55 am
James, have you considered that when you start ranting “whats ya f$%cken name man c’mon bring it on coward”; that maybe rabid, threatening guys like you are the reason we use pseudonyms?
I like to have comment and sometimes a chuckle at some of the opinions on here, but I don’t want guys like you turning up on my doorstep.
May 28th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
On the other hand, Helmet, the likes of Phillip John turning up on one’s doorstep are fairly remote. He’d be easily distracted by oil drums if they were to be strategically positioned at the end of the driveway
May 28th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
save happy valley activists have done their stunts in the open for what they believe in and been arrested for them. Thompson and Clark have spied illegally three times now and not been charged.
Nicky is a reporter and simply broke the story, if sum people don’t like him go be a reporter and break stories you think are important or stop wining.
Private companies behave better? like the Auckland buss company and Telecom? give me a break.
People want action on global warming, but the main parties are only talking about it. Groups around the world like save happy valley are acting on it.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Treesofunderstanding- WTF???? too much dope dude? Are you an example of the shining light that is environmentalism? I had no idea that dropping out of school in year 4 was a requirement.
And how does a group of people trying to save a snail, equate to action on global warming? never mind.
So that my post is not entirely derogatory,..
If Solid Energy was my business and I had a group determined to stop me going about my lawful business, I would want to know what they were up to as well. As long as I don’t break the law to find out, what’s the friggin problem?
May 28th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Thompson and Clark have spied illegally three times now and not been charged
Really? Please do share with us: which laws have been broken? Otherwise you might be wise to retract this silly statement.
May 28th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Don Elder should resign, IMHO.
Not because he spied on protesters – although given Solid Energy’s pretty dubious buisness of flogging carbon to be dumped into the atmosphere, the “ethics malfunction” is hardly surprising – but simply because he’s utterly rubbish at arranging any decent spying.
Let’s be clear: he paid some firm of muppets to hire a spy or two, but doesn’t manage to stop, prevent, or even inconvenience the protesters. They go ahead and chain themselves to coal trains anyway. But what he does manage to achieve is plastering his organisation all over the front of the SST (and not in a good way), blowing a bunch of public money for no purpose, and embarass the government.
Trevor Mallard will not be happy.
So Trevor should fire his ass – for being a completely useless CEO. And Don, here’s a hint: if you’re going to run the risk of looking like a villain in public, have the good sense to do the job properly and actually get some benefit out of acting like a scumbag.
May 28th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
POC said…
…the likes of Phillip John turning up on one’s doorstep are fairly remote.
You’re absolutely correct POC. Phillip John has been trying to make himself sound intellectual by one comment that he hasn’t seen it in the literature. Phillip John, I don’t what economic literature you’ve been reading, but I think that you’ve been reading economic articles at Wikipedia and not economic peer review articles.
I can’t stand people who are anti-business like Phillip John, the Greens, James Cairney ,Save Happy Valley , Selma, Phil Ure, Sonic, etc. These people are hypocrites, because one minute they would berate Bill Gates, Telecom or Solid Energy, etc, and the next thing they’re, using computers with Windows Operating System (Bill Gates product) to make post here at DPF. I don’t mind debating about political views, because we all have different beliefs, but to be a hypocrite and blame businesses all the time for their problems (low wages, greedy, exploitation, blah, blah, blah,…) which were self-inflicted by them and no one else is to blame, I myself do make a stand against those useless fuckers. These losers of the society, feel that they have God given right to have a share of what is not theirs from the wealth of business people. All they do is lobby those in powers to put in legislation to tie the hands of those who are producing and nothing else productive in their daily lifes to contribute to society.
May 28th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
“These people are hypocrites, because one minute they would berate Bill Gates, Telecom or Solid Energy, etc, and the next thing they’re, using computers with Windows Operating System (Bill Gates product) to make post here at DPF.”
Hehe . . . did you steal your computer – or, more likely, did your Mum buy it for you? If you’d paid for it with your own fairly-earned cash you wouldn’t feel the need to prostrate yourself in the direction of Redmond, Washington everytime you used the goddamn thing.
Telecom – f’fork snakes – I bet you grab your ankles whenever your phone rings.
Business worship: an obscure cult favoured by small boys and barking sickness beneficiaries. Anyone who’s actively involved in turning a buck doesn’t have the time for that kind of crap.
May 28th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
The explanation by Ryan the Solid Fuel Spy was as convincing as Sonic telling us he is not a labour supporter.
Ryan was playing games and now tells us that all he did was count numbers at meetings.
I still don’t believe that he has declared the income for tax purposes. Bet he din’t want it deducted from his pay. But then again what can you believe about this plant.
The Happy (or is that Nappy) Valley crowd’s attitide is that they believe they can be as law breaking as they like but others like Solid Fuel not only have to be law abiding but give the protesters an advantage so they can be half way effective. In reality they are a small group of typically anarchic temporary West Coast ferals who are like flies. They eat shit and bother people.
May 28th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
James CAIRNEY…I distinctly recall Lindsay PERIGO hosting Radio Talkback at the time of the publication of this book stating that the emails abscribed to him were absolute bullshit and had not been sent by him.
May 28th, 2007 at 5:54 pm
David Farrar – The point you seem to have missed is that Solid Energy didn’t use the spying to stop protest action or to prevent damage. It used information from spying to pre-empt protest action with PR. It’s use of espionage was for political, not economic, reasons.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:20 pm
“That’s credibility/veracity for you. Unlike you Phillip John who even managed to pass off part of a Wikipedia article as your own”
Failing to put quotation marks around that cut and paste was an honest mistake.
That’s not the whole story. You also forgot the citation, and you edited the passage to eliminate the parts of the article in Spanish and Portuguese that, if left unchanged, would have made obvious you were not the author.
Fishy.
May 28th, 2007 at 10:33 pm
I’ve managed to mess up the last post. So here it is again, with Phillip John’s comments properly attributed:
POC said: “That’s credibility/veracity for you. Unlike you Phillip John who even managed to pass off part of a Wikipedia article as your own”
Phillip John said: Failing to put quotation marks around that cut and paste was an honest mistake.
And I respond: That’s not the whole story. You also forgot the citation, and you edited the passage to eliminate the parts of the article in Spanish and Portuguese that, if left unchanged, would have made obvious you were not the author.
Fishy.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:29 pm
Wicket, clearly I excite you somewhat.
Your fictitious company impresses no one. Only a loser feel the need to make up facts, and remarkably you make them up not only about me, but about yourself as well! You are a special wee child.
You do not have the ability to address a single issue that I have raised. You are scared of me, you are a coward, you hide behind an alias and you falsify information in order to defame. You have no integrity to either apologise or retract when you are caught out, as above. I eat losers like you for breakfast, you are a fucking joke and you are an absolute nothing. Even dad4justice has the guts to stand proud of his claims, not hiding behind anonymity, no matter how severe, you have nothing on him, and that is quite a call coming from me.
Anyway enough, continue to keep everything ’secret’ to protect your ‘company’, yeah right!
You are full of shit.
May 28th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
James Cairney, the offer is still there for you to take regarding the B.Sc in toilet cleaning, with 5 years experience. You seems to be the right candidate.
May 29th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Thanks for the laffs Wicket, love seeing these commie bullshit artists get agitated..
May 30th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
what commies?
June 12th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
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June 12th, 2007 at 2:08 pm
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