Horomia says Iti no terrorist

October 19th, 2007 at 7:21 am by David Farrar

Maori Affairs Minister Parekura Horomia told TV3 yesterday that he doubted Tama Iti is a terrorist.  Really, Ministers of the Crowns should know better than to speculate.  They have a constitutional position other MPs do not.

Having said that, the Maori and Green parties would be wise to not be jumping to conclusions either, and demanding responses from Ministers.   Ministers should and generally are saying nothing, as to do so would undermine the judicial process.

No tag for this post.

70 Responses to “Horomia says Iti no terrorist”

  1. davemc (102 comments) says:

    Well, I doubt Iti is a terrorist too.

    One good thing about this whole exercise is the great scepticism that has dominated media coverage of this issue. Full and extensive air and print time has been given to the viewpoints of those who are questioning the police actions, which is healthy for our democracy and I dare say welcomed by the police.

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  2. Bok (740 comments) says:

    I remember in the 80’s when a group of Maori went to Libya for training….
    With real terrorist in real camps…and all of us just (rightly) .. smiled. Some of them ended in government with nary a shot fired here…
    The Mr Iti marched up the streets of Taneatua handing out eviction notices… No police raids then.

    So here is the question. Most of those arrested were being looked at for other crimes or reasons, and we are asked to believe that after 20 years of playing at freedom fighters, these guys all of a sudden, when the pressure is on H , and the polls are low and she has a stooge at the head of the police force, they have finally succeeded in being a threat right at the right time.

    Monday spelled the day NZ finally died. The old NZ is forever lost either way..

    Because if the police raid was for real and the threat was real…Trust me in a country this small and with so much bush we have had it. (I did my time in the military in Africa)

    But even worse if it is a setup and done at political bidding…. Then we are truly lost. Political use of police and or military ….?

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  3. tim barclay (886 comments) says:

    I have my doubts also. He and his motley gang are a bunch of amateurs crashing around the forest talking big and acting small in surplus army gear bought through trademe. None of them have special training, none of them have links to international terrorism (so the police say). It would be a different story if the group had hard men and women who had special training, but they do not. Therefore I think they fall short of being terrorists.

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  4. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Yes, I doubt if Iti is a terrorist (- as we know them these days – ie: flying planes into buildings, blowing up trains, etc) either.

    But I thought “I wonder what the definition is. So -: ” One who favours using terror inspiring methods of governing or of coercing government or community” (Oxford concise dict)

    Well, depending on what ‘terror inspiring methods’ are, then Iti just might be one such terrorist.

    So, what is terror inspiring. Well according to the C.O.D, terror is: “extreme fear; person or thing that causes this”

    Well, on this basis there would be little doubt that in some peoples minds, Iti is a full blown terrorist. Firing shotguns at flags in front of a delegation would certainly make him a card carrying terrorist.

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  5. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Tama Iti – He’s an activist, not a terrorist. He might even be a wannabe fachion-statement terrorist. But he is not the real deal. How many of us come from countries where terrorism has occurred? This little display by the police was pathetic. If they were terrorists, where was the army?

    I think this was a similar attitude towards the Maori Party as has been shown by Labour to the National Party over the EB.

    Take a group in society, smear it and use it to raise a bogey-man spectre that will frighten ‘middle’ New Zealand.

    Then when the going gets tough trot out a phrase like ‘It’s to stop people like John Key and the Exclusive Brethren rorting the election.”
    Next:
    “It’s to stop harawera and his associates terrorising communities.” ?
    I’d put ten bucks on that one.

    Then pass whatever law as an emergency measure you choose that fits your own narrow political need at the time.

    First the EB, next Tama Iti, who’s next? The Plunkett Society? Registered Charities? Any one who might pose a miniscule threat to the woel order according to Helun?

    start the car…

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  6. Yvette (2,820 comments) says:

    POLICE VIOLATE SHOPPERS RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS BY DEMANDING THEY REMAIN IN AN UPPER HUTT SUPERMARKET WHILE THEY FLUSH A GUNMAN OUT OF A NEARBY HOUSE. ARMED POLICE IN FULL BATTLE GEAR DISREGARDED THE CHANCE CHILDREN MAY HAVE SEEN THEM. TRUST IN SUPERMARKET SHOPPING IS SET BACK DECADES.
    EVERYONE FORGETS TO BLAME GUNMAN FOR ANYTHING.

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  7. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Put ‘em all in camps, Yvette?

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  8. Porcupine (242 comments) says:

    How to deal with dessidents NZ style
    1. Argue with them for a while
    2. Perform high profile arrests charge them
    3. Get a namby judge to let them off on a technicality
    4. Give them a big compo payment, a high paid job as a consultant to disaffected youth and their very own pippi foundation

    You’ll never hear from them again.

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  9. GPT1 (2,122 comments) says:

    Yes, Horomia should have stayed quiet and followed the line of his colleague, Nanaia Mahuta, who spoke some of the most sense I have heard on this issue -(to the effect of) “this is not a race issue, it is a safety issue.”

    The way the Maori Party are beating this up you would think it was Bastion point all over again. As I understand it various organisations and ethnicity have been targeted (as a result of a lengthy investigation). A number of charges have been laid under the Arms Act which tends to support the use of armed police (or heavily armed police as the media seem to like – quite why you would use lightly armed or moderately armed police is beyond me).

    davemc – a fair point about the open coverage but I would caveat by saying this is the same media that nearly wet themselves with excitement about having domestic “terror raids” and then proceeded to compete to see who can mention the word terrorist or a derivative the most in a sound bite.

    I do not believe the raids were politically motivated. (Then again I never thought I would see a Party steal taxpayers money to willfully and massively breach the election spending cap but that’s another story).

    Barry – valid point and one that is missed by many, if not most, commentators and the msm. Terrorist activities can be somewhat wider than driving planes in to buildings and living in caves in tora bora.

    Personally I am still of the view that a deep breath is needed on this one and wait for the trials.

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  10. Porcupine (242 comments) says:

    Perhaps its practice for dealing with the really serious issue – gangs. Politicians have been promising us action on that for 35 years.

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  11. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    I haven’t seen gnome tane or sonic condemning these raids either…

    I’d be interested to see what the ‘Left’ make of this. Traditionally they have been ‘cool’ with ‘terrorism, only recently it was ‘Remember Che’ on the Average. But now they have their own Party calling people terrorists, and ordering raids.

    I wonder what the spin will be? I suspect it will sound just like the Nats spin would be if they had ordered the raids.

    Strange days indeed.

    PS I agree, take a deep breath. But gosh I can’t resist standing up for people when I think they have been wronged. Does this make me a terrorist and a commie too?

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  12. Rob Hosking (77 comments) says:

    Good column by Chris Trotter in today’s DomPost on the issue.

    Trotter – a hard leftie from way back – knows Broad from when Broad was a younger cop chasing anti-Tour protesters like Trotter around Dunedin in 1981.He reckons Broad would not have authorised this unless he was damn sure it was more than a few hotheads mouthing off.

    We’ll have to wait and see, of course. I thought King looked very uneasy about all this business yesterday in the House.

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  13. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    Well said, Yvette!

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  14. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Personally I am still of the view that a deep breath is needed on this one and wait for the trials.

    Ahhhh sanity, Mr Sharples please take note.

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  15. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    I’m still waiting to hear the evidence Lee, at the moment it looks like a fit-up but as today is the day when we actually hear what the police have I’ll hold fire.

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  16. FighterPilott (84 comments) says:

    The whole thing’s become a joke – whether they were “terrorists” or not, the debate would clearly be framed as police inaction/stupidity/laziness/too busy giving tickets if they hadn’t acted. Now they had some idea of what was going on, and decided to come in fully armed against a group that had MSSA firearms and rudimentary explosives. If a White Supremacist group were charging about the Catlins talking about offing Maori there’d be no fuss, and DPF wouldn’t be..well I can’t see the point of that post actually, but it wouldn’t be an issue at all.

    I’m going with the “Pita Sharples is the racist” viewpoint here. Who cares whether they were, in fact, terrorists – the police acted as they did because there was every indication of a threat. What if they’d gone in half-arsed and been shot at/injured/killed?

    Bok – if you think there’s a sinister political conspiracy in this, how can you sleep at night, the world must be so scary!

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  17. kiwi in america (2,454 comments) says:

    Agreed Rob – Trotter is a thoughtful lefty. I think there has been a rash of ill informed judgement on both sides of this matter. My view is that we should wait to see what comes out in court. My gut feeling – that the truth will lie between the two extremes: this group were not harmless greenies or earnest Maori at a wananga their many apologists make them out to be but on the other hand, there was probably limited harm they could do even if their motives had malice.

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  18. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    This statement by the Horomia clown is about as appropriate in the circumstances as if Steve Maharey publicly expressed the opinion “Chris Kahui Is Not A Child Murderer”.

    Whether or not this scum is a child murderer is, of course, a matter for the courts to decide. Same applies to the fat tattooed slug and his mates.

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  19. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    porcupine -that gangs are probably closer to a terrorist organisation in NZ than ITI . perhaps the missing link in the astounding lack of action over ‘Gangs’ is because they do not have any political affilliations or state any?

    So, political influence in the running of the police – too long a bow to draw?

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  20. Yvette (2,820 comments) says:

    The Herald has been told the officers were ordered to speak in Maori after Prime Minister Helen Clark was briefed about the raids.
    A police spokeswoman said there was no policy in place for officers on the raid to speak Maori.
    Tamariki were traumatised by police boarding school buses.
    A van was facilitated through three road blocks – no police boarded any bus.

    Perhaps we will have to wait until the whole mess goes to court and [provided then full reportage is allowed] maybe we will learn the truth.

    Meanwhile it is unfortunate Pita Sharples, in Australia, couldn’t wait a little while too, before playing the race card, playing the victim, and overplaying everything else.

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  21. helmet (807 comments) says:

    Iti wears Camo. He’s a terrorist. :-)

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  22. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Ah sonic you are awake. How my car going? I’ll be around for it in January. Make sure it’s valeted…

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  23. Porcupine (242 comments) says:

    I feel a compo mine comming along for this community – that should shut them up for a while. I wonder if we will get to find out how large the compo payments are – I wont hold my breath…

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  24. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    “there was probably limited harm they could do even if their motives had malice.” The idea was to use the fact that they are alledgedly breaking the law now to prevent harm to anyone, not wait until “limited harm” was done and then round them up.

    NZ isn’t near a major terrorist event or revolution – all that is just MSM hype. But if they are found to be breaking the law then a few lives might have been saved. This is just the usual factions fighting it out in the MSM. Imagine where the outcry would be coming from if it was a white supremacist group or a cocktail bar that used email inappropriately in its advertising?

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  25. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    yes Kevin, you are right. But if a white supremacist group had done this, wold they have cordoned off the whole village, including the kids on their way to school? Maybe in Palestine, but surely not here?

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  26. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Lee C, Yes under the same circumstances thats exactly what would have happened but the media would have had its work cut out for it hyping the event up because thinking NZers think crime is crime no matter what the colur of your skin is.

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  27. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,903 comments) says:

    Tim Barclay appears not to have seen reports of the
    group’ including ex members of the police and military.

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  28. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    Tame Iti and the others may or may not be a terrorist
    That is just semantics, but what ever they was up to, they are scum

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  29. Owen McShane (1,226 comments) says:

    I have no idea what is going in these camps.
    But many novels about terror record how the recruits are first attracted into a Romantic but grown up version of the boy scouts. And are then sent off to Pakistan or some such real training ground.
    I suspect too that we have a group of grown up boy scouts full of talk and boasting.
    However, the new ingredient is drugs such as P which can turn boy scouts into people totally out of control as we have seen time and time again.
    I wonder if such a connection has triggered the police response.
    But I repeat – I really have no idea.

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  30. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    Terrorism is a police issue. There are many thinking commentators who believe that by treating terrorists as criminals you take away the thing they crave – respect. They like to think they are fighting a war against the west, we are better off if everyone thinks they are common criminals. The police would have been better not using the terror act.

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  31. Castafiore (262 comments) says:

    Rob Hosking Says:
    October 19th, 2007 at 8:10 am

    Good column by Chris Trotter in today’s DomPost on the issue.

    I agree but did you miss this gem !!!!!!!!Chris Trotter the faithful and vocal advocate of the left has now come out and publicly defended the actions of the EB’s at the last election.

    In his ‘From the Left’ piece today in the Dom comes this quote:

    “We enjoy a political environment in which citizens rights are so zealously guarded that full democratic participation in national affairs is straight forward, simple and effective.”

    I am impressed Mr. Trotter that not all the left are as deluded as I thought and I look forward to you now changing your stance on the EFB to protect the freedoms of the rest of us now that you have defended what the EB did.

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  32. Frank. (607 comments) says:

    Campbell did a great job last night to let Peter Sharples rant on and show the extent of the hollow nature of any supposed relationships that exist at this time.

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  33. pkiwi (111 comments) says:

    I can’t believe it. Reading something reasonable by Chris Trotter. This really is a new NZ.
    As to the merits of the ‘terra-iti’s… Never a good idea to have toy soldiers get too carried away with their play – one day one of them may get really silly. The ridicule (and any resulting firearms charges) may be enough of a deterrence for a while.

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  34. Frank. (607 comments) says:

    I wish that Broad and his coppers had put as much effort into their
    “comprehensive investigation” of Electoral Act rorts (Prima FacieTheft) as they did into their surveillance of alleged terrorist activities?

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  35. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    I would say that Horomia would say anything that he thought would get him and his scaby arse party a few extra votes. Horomia is playing the race card but this will not be his or his partys get out of jail free card, they will be put to the sword come 2008.

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  36. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    Anyonne got a link to the Trotter piece.

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  37. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Sonic, its on the Stuff website, go to the Opinion section

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  38. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Or if you are too lazy for that :-P

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/4243561a1861.html

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  39. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    “And so I say again: “Idiots”. For causing my fellow citizens to turn with frightened and mistrustful eyes against the tens of thousands of decent, progressive Kiwis who have devoted their entire lives to making this country a beacon of freedom, equality, and social justice.

    Without resorting to violence. ”

    Are you listening the ‘three mousketeers’?

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  40. tim barclay (886 comments) says:

    You should cover Mahery going, not that I am all that surprised after his wife’s sad death I am sure his mind has been off politics. He has not achieved much and clearly he does not see himself as Leader otherwise he would have stayed on.

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  41. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Yes – Trotter item has some sense in it – which is unusual for him as some of his published thoughts are really off the wall.

    However he did show his true colours in the first sentance………

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  42. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    I was talking to someone this am and they opined that “Further sharples comments its a pity we cant go back 150 years or 170 years or whatever it takes to precceed the treaty and we can start all over again.”
    and he went onto explain his resolution to the treaty problem.
    Which I wont explian here as it might come within the parameters for being described as a terrorist…..

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  43. cubit9f (356 comments) says:

    A key problem of trying to understand what is actually happening in this entire episode is that the reporting of the various events is just so shallow and woeful.

    What actually did take place? Are there any unbiased eyewitnesses who will simply say what happened.

    For example. Was the police person who boarded the kohanga reo minibus a normal uniformed officer or a member of the AOS or STG? Did in fact an armed officer actually board the bus. What type of weapon were they armed with and how was it being carried. Was the weapon a pistol enclosed in a holster?

    Have the kohanga reo/school authorities actually sought post trauma counselling assistance through the normal education department channels?

    Is there a single journalist/reporter out there in the field who is actually trying to present the unbiased facts. Even the key points of answers given in parliament to direct questions evaded the skilful reporting talents of the press gallery. Just what is the story or impression they are all trying to create?

    At the present time we have a lot of the normal protestors embellishing the story to suit their own ends.

    Lastly my understanding is that no one arrested or questioned in this entire incident has been charged with any offences covered by anti terrorist legislation.

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  44. Reg (539 comments) says:

    Ever since “Doonegate” there has been a shadow of suspicion hanging over the relationship between the Labour Party and the top echlons of the NZ Police.
    The shameful situation where the Prime Minister anonymously leaked false information to a media outlet regarding the nations most senior Police Officer in itself has a “bad smell” about it.
    Those that now occupy top position in the Police hierarchy were furthered in their careers by HC’s disgraceful conduct in this matter.
    The reputation of the NZ Police is now at the “crossroad”.
    If Howard Broad has over reacted by invoking anti-terrorist laws it will be read as attempt to bolster the reputation of a scandal plagued force and the political fortunes of a flagging Labour government.(Even if the timing was purely coincidental)
    The only way in which Broad will preserve his career in the NZ Police is to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that real live life threatening terrorist activity was imminent and they weren’t involved in a “Holywood style” bust of a few drug crazed enviro-lefties playing “Cowboys and Indians” who could have been quietly dealt with under normal criminal law.

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  45. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    cubit9f, it was announced in parliament yesterday that no police boarded the buses (in answer to a question). Actually the information was that no armed police enterred the buses – which is what the question asked specified.

    This is just like the Flavell story that these programmes (ie:running around the bush in second hand camaflage clothing with guns) were in part financed by the taxpayer.
    He announced also yesterday or day before that in fact this wasnt true.

    These Maori Party MP’s are not beyond stretching the truth in a rather obvious a blatant way. Many MP’s stretch the truth, but these 4 dont seem to care of they tell outright lies – the sort that are easily found out. At least most other MP’s try to evade the truth by not including blatantly incorrect facts. (well except Benson Pope and that MP who lied about the stomach operation – well no surprise she was maori.)

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  46. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Certainly makes you ponder on police tactics in other cases

    David Bain

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  47. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    “…after which, Mr Iti reciprocated, saying ‘Just as clearly, Mr Horomia is not a fat idiot’.”

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  48. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    I don’t think so Rex

    lol

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  49. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Kevin,,

    why don’t Kiwis call white people criminals,,

    they’re quick to say Maori or polynesian

    They’re also quick to talk about Maori blood count, but not Polynesians,
    and yet they can’t tell the difference!

    Pull it in Kevvie

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  50. roger nome (4,067 comments) says:

    “I haven’t seen gnome tane or sonic condemning these raids either…I’d be interested to see what the ‘Left’ make of this. Traditionally they have been ‘cool’ with ‘terrorism, only recently it was ‘Remember Che’ on the Average. But now they have their own Party calling people terrorists, and ordering raids.”

    One of my friends says that she knows eight of those who are in jail. She thinks it’s all a bit of a joke. I’m not surprised that she thinks this. The idea that people in NZ’s enviro/activist/hippie community have been involved in plots to murder people … well if you really know the type of people we’re talking about it’s just bloody hilarious.

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  51. helmet (807 comments) says:

    I know PJ, it’s just crazy to think that people who idolise Che Guevara would ever support murderers. Utter nonsense.

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  52. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Kiwis call anyone who breaks most laws criminals irrespective of ethnicity, gender etc; so I don’t know what you are on about hinamanu. In retrospect the police perhaps should have used the word criminal instead of terrorist.

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  53. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    cubit9f, it doesn’t actually matter a flying fuck WHO boarded or DIDN’T BOARD which bus. The fact is that earlier today several hundred Maoris (a thousand if you believe some reports) were demonstrating in Whakatane outside the court in SUPPORT of Maori separatists who are accused of procuring and manufacturing illegal weapons, carrying out clandestine guerrilla arms training and actively plotting and preparing for acts of armed insurrection against the people and government of New Zealand. These demonstrations were also carried out in Auckland and (I believe) in Wellington. A major aspect of the Whakatane demonstration was a primitive war dance performed by SCHOOL CHILDREN, and the leader of the country’s indigenous political party was, at the same time, supporting these people overseas in his public pronouncements.

    The settlers of Kenya laughed off the Mau Mau too at first. Look where their lack of concern got them. I’m sure the IRA were initially treated with disbelief and derision in the pubs in Belfast…. but then they didn’t start off by discharging a shotgun in a public place in intimidation of a government agency, did they?

    Get real you fools. Take your fucking heads out of the sand.

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  54. Josh (53 comments) says:

    Helen Clark set the tone with her immediate post-incident bullet placement analysis of the Stephen Wallace incident, why would you expect her ministers to behave any differently?

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  55. roger nome (4,067 comments) says:

    “I know PJ, it’s just crazy to think that people who idolise Che Guevara would ever support murderers. Utter nonsense.”

    Do you have any idea of what you’re talking about Helmet? Clearly no. Now groups like the International socialists may adore Che, Trotsky and other authoritarians sure, but i’ve yet to meet an anarchist/enviro activist who has anything but utter disdain for such thugs. Nope, what would be the hero of these people? hmmm – Trinity Roots perhaps? Dubwize maybe? Possibly a Noam Chomsky (who incidentally is an avowed pacifist) or Arni Defranko (acoustic feminist musician)?

    No unless you know this crowd (I do) you just have no idea helmet. And you just come off looking silly when you claim to know any different.

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  56. baxter (893 comments) says:

    The Police have been keeping this group under observation for 18 months. I would be surprised if they did not have undercover infiltration. They are very methodical in these matters and will have had legal analyses before they acted. It seems their hand was forced when two hunters stumbled upon this group excercising. It would be intolerable for the Police to permit any group to arm up with molotovs and Napalm bombs. The test is going to be whether the Justice system is robust enough to deal with any charges brought under the new act. .. What evidence will be suppressed or disallowed. What complexities will be within the clauses of the Act, which I have no doubt was composed by personalities similar to those who composed the Resource Management Act. ..There have been Maori radicals in the past but they have tended to be the intelligensa who have been unable to relate to the rabble gang members. ITI is not of high intelligence and has been able to attract a large group of followers in an area notorious as a Black Power stronghold. His tribe likewise has been one of the least sophisticated and has a tradition of rebellion stretching back at least to the arrest of Rua Tenana. I agree with Dave MANN ” laugh it off at your peril.

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  57. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    nome:

    Arni Defranko

    Geez, now I have to wipe snot mixed with coffee out of my keyboard. A vision of Ani DiFranco wrapped in a bandolier, a shotgun in each hand, dark glasses reflecting the fire and carnage she’s caused, threatening “I’ll be bark…” in an Austrian accent…

    Priceless.

    Glad to hear you’re not a fan of Cheez Guava though :-D

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  58. roger nome (4,067 comments) says:

    “I would be surprised if they did not have undercover infiltration. They are very methodical in these matters and will have had legal analyses before they acted. It seems their hand was forced when two hunters stumbled upon this group excercising.”

    I don’t claim to know the nature of Iti’s group – I just know that the lefty-liberal activist scene in NZ isn’t the kind of breeding ground for a murderous campaign. I do however know that the NZ police, who hate them with a passion. You probably won’t understand until you see a friend, who’s a 50kg female get brutalised for passively blocking a road with her body, only to subsequently have assault charges laid against her for hurting the poor officer’s fist.

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  59. sonic (2,818 comments) says:

    “a primitive war dance”

    You were doing so well Dave, what a shame.

    “I’m sure the IRA were initially treated with disbelief and derision in the pubs in Belfast”

    Totally true, indeed the joke in Belfast in the late 60’s was that IRA stood for I Ran Away.

    Oh, how we laughed!

    Then the British army shot 14 unarmed protestors dead in Derry in 1972.

    Suddenly, not so funny any more.

    Over-reaction is my worry.

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  60. Danyl Mclauchlan (1,069 comments) says:

    The Police have been keeping this group under observation for 18 months. I would be surprised if they did not have undercover infiltration. They are very methodical in these matters and will have had legal analyses before they acted.

    There’s a little uncertainty about this though – was this investigation carried out by the police or the SIS? I agree that the police would have been very methodical and sought legal analysis before proceeding. The worlds worst ‘intelligence’ agency on the other hand doesn’t usually bother itself with such petty details and it would be entirely within character for them to simply start rounding up activists and raiding organic farms for the hell of it.

    I have faith in the police to take these things seriously and if they carried out the investigation then the charges are likely to have substance – if the SIS are running the show then its possible the entire incident is yet another gigantic public relations/civil liberties fiasco.

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  61. kehua (225 comments) says:

    Anyone out there know who the rich,semi-retired expat kiwi living part time offshore who comes home frequently, paints up in the war rags and drives own tanks etc complete with real-death bullets and bombs carefully avoiding serious $$$$$ garden ornaments is? Clue #1 one time spouse known to have tatooed Tuhoe connections. How widespread is this anarchy? We live in fear!!

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  62. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Reg posted

    “If Howard Broad has over reacted by invoking anti-terrorist laws it will be read as attempt to bolster the reputation of a scandal plagued force and the political fortunes of a flagging Labour government. (Even if the timing was purely coincidental)”

    Only by political opportunists.

    There is another conspiracy theorists on this without complicating it any further.

    It’s probably unfortunate that so many were targeted at the same time when the terrorist word was used, rather than “various groups of people under observation who were viewed as having strayed into criminal activites” have been arrested (leaving the media to focus on the charges laid rather than associate the matter with the terrorist word).

    The approach left us on world news as having some “indigenous insurgency” – when we would prefer to simply be the next hosts of the World Cup in 2011 at this time.

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  63. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    There is ENOUGH conspiracy theorists on this without complicating it any further.

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  64. Dave Mann (1,222 comments) says:

    Sonic, yes a ‘haka’ IS a primitive war dance actually.

    Its always the way with apologists; society gets blamed for causing all the shit when it reacts in its own defence. The Northern Ireland ‘troubles’ were the fault of the british Army/Government. Yeah right.

    It seems that civilised new Zealand has two main options now:

    1) Ignore the threats that have been made explicitly and implicitly over the last 20 years. Result – Maoris, anarchists, eco-fucks and anticapitalists win without a fight

    2) Stand and face the threat and pre-empt the onset of terrorism. Result – the inevitable conflict starts while New Zealand still has the means and the will to fight.

    You need to realise (unpalatable as this may seem) that there are influential elements of Maoridom who regard New Zealand itself – the very concept – as an alien occupying settler force which must be driven out. They are working on it.

    Which side are you on?

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  65. PhilBest (5,121 comments) says:

    What’s the chances we’ll EVER know the truth about whether these guys were real terrorists or not and who they were connected to, if that information were embarrassing to the Clark government?

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  66. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “You need to realise (unpalatable as this may seem) that there are influential elements of Maoridom who regard New Zealand itself – the very concept – as an alien occupying settler force which must be driven out. They are working on it.

    Which side are you on?”

    For me, the side of the treaty that clearly states and signed by leaders representative of Maori that the people of Queen Victoria have a legal right to settle and protect the indigenous peoples of Aotearoa under her laws and statutes.

    The people you describe are rebellions to their fore fathers and tipuna.
    they have no historical ground to stand on and will bring consequences of huge condemnation upon their heads and those gullible enough to follow them.

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  67. khed007 (4 comments) says:

    isn’t this the same half naked maori who shot the New Zealand national flag?! if the Maori people want to return to the dark ages with their treaty of waitangi and apply their laws to the present day,.. then to fully return they would have to be hung for treason against the nation. Because that was the law back in the 1800’s.

    all this raucus over nothing. maybe this time if they ‘hikoi’ over the bridge it might collapse; maybe all the bridge hype has escalated since turia’s march which shook the bridge from side to side in 2004.

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  68. earthfirst (2 comments) says:

    or maybe you could remember that the british never one and if you talk about a return it would be a return to racism and a loosing war.

    yes khed – shut up and keep your race opinions for the national front forum.
    and also keep in mindtuhoe never signed the treaty.

    the condemnation has been squarly at the police and SIS.

    Rikards in – Tame Iti out!

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  69. helmet (807 comments) says:

    “No unless you know this crowd (I do) you just have no idea helmet. And you just come off looking silly when you claim to know any different.”

    Yeah yeah, you’re cool, hip, in the with the anarcho-green-peacenik crowd. You even know some band names!

    You don’t do humour too well now do ya PJ?

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  70. Hugh (4 comments) says:

    um excuse me ‘earth first’- you maori?
    you can’t spell.

    so you can’t tell me to shut up, you fart.
    go the police!! they are just doing their job. your just lucky the likes of tame iti have been put away. maori are nearly always on the news for bad things. and now harawira is talking a load of nonsense in parliament. talk about racial polarisation. and you wonder why nzers are getting fed up with radicals and terrorists in the bush

    (where they probably belong)

    [DPF: 10 demerits for the comment]

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