Electoral Finance Bill (not) to have third reading today
December 13th, 2007 at 11:12 am by David FarrarNZPA reported close to midnight:
… under a deal understood to have been worked out by MPs late tonight, there will be a break in the urgency motion for the Electoral Finance Bill to be debated for the last time tomorrow [now today].
When it has been passed, urgency will resume and the remaining bills dealt with. After that the adjournment debate will be held.
The arrangement will allow Parliament to adjourn for the long summer recess late tomorrow, avoiding having to come back after the weekend. Friday is not a sitting day.
I would expect the Governor-General to give royal assent to it on Friday, at which stage it will come into law. The regulated period will start on 1 January 2008, but the new laws around donations etc will come into force on the day royal assent is given.
UPDATE: It turns out there was no deal, and the House remains in urgency. When the bills put to urgency are finished with (might be today even) the House will rise and resume on Tuesday. I would expect question time from 2 – 3.30 or so, EFB third reading from 3.30 – 5.30 and then after the dinner break the adjournment debate.
UPDATE2: Have just had confirmed there never was any deal at all, that the media stories came from talk at the press gallery party last night. In fact as I understand it, the position of the leadership is that they are quite happy to still be debating the Electoral Finance Bill on Christmas Eve, and will not be making any deals to help the Government get it through quicker! I think it is great National have managed to succeed in not having the third reading until the week before Christmas. If you’re not willing to give up some of your Xmas shopping time to fight a bill like this, then you don’t deserve Xmas! So well done Nats.
Related posts:
- Trotter on Electoral Finance Bill Third Reading
- Electoral Finance Bill passes first reading
- Electoral Finance Bill timeline
- Hager on Electoral Finance Bill
December 13th, 2007 at 11:19 am
And thus Labour will pass a disputed piece of legislation that touches upon the core of our democracy so they can have a nice holiday in preparation for the theft of the next election.
What mice govern us.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
I have great difficulty why any party opposing this iniquitous legislation would come to any agreement which will speed up the process.
A couple of days ago I suggested that the legislation that is under urgency be filibustered to the max in order to drag the EFB out as long as possible.
Obviously they are keener to start their holidays.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
So the Nats have made a deal with Labour to let the Electoral Finance Bill pass today eh?
What a shocker.
I want to vote for you buggers, but you keep pulling this cr*p.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:24 am
Let’s hope it is the beginning of a very long holiday indeed after the next election.
Let’s all enjoy finding ways to expose this law, and its architects for the asses they are.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Did anyone say the Nats were part of the “deal”?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:27 am
They’ll be breaking out the champagne in Wellington tonight!
Vote:Imagine the next election – in the bag!
December 13th, 2007 at 11:30 am
I would say the deal is worked out between Labour, NZ first, The greens and United Future. United Future has said that it will not vote for the EFB if it is passed under urgency and this deal will make that possible.
Bastards.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:31 am
Sign here please!
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-nz-democracy.html
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:32 am
Goodbye Labour, Winnie First and No Future.
Vote:This has sealed your fates come November 2008…all in the name of a clean, crisp start to your Xmas break.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:33 am
As I suspected and commented,, National are not as opposed to this bill as they may have hinted.
If you oppose something you just don’t hint.
Sometime next year a similar version will hit the shore of Oz.
Just like GST did.
If there is one area the house will not debate on in future will be the EFB.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:36 am
DPF – any chance of a separate thread for Joseph Mooney’s petition – time is of the essence now.
[DPF: Nah because the petition can not succeed. The GG has no choice but to sign it, or resign]
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:39 am
Inv2 says `did anyone say that the Nats were part of the deal.
Perhaps I have misinterpreted but I saw somewhere that a deal has been done for 1 more question time in exchange for the EFB third reading today.
DomPost A5 today.
This certainly indicates the Nats are `donkey deep’ in the deal.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:40 am
For the Nats the sooner the Govt passes this turd of a bill into law the better for them politically. It’s like the old aphorism that says “Don’t interrupt your enemy while he’s making a mistake it’s bad manners”.
Roll on 2008 where Labour and it’s poodles will get tossed out.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:41 am
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4322654a11.html
Tim Shadbolt re proposed SIT funding cuts:
How much will he be able to spend on his campaign? Has he heard of the EFB? I think a lot of people are going to be surprised next year when they suddenly find themselves hamstrung.
A shame too, as he has always been such a proponent of free speech and now he will be stifled…
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Good on Tim for telling them. He always called a spade a bloody shovel in the past so hopefully this will drag him out of protest retirement to sock it to the socialist scum. What has happened to the great knowledge economy policy of liarbour? How do you achieve it by cutting education funding? Any trolls out there who can put the proper spin on it for us dumb capitalists?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:55 am
Now I know that by convention the GG is a rubber stamp but also by convention electoral law is supposed to be passed by consensus and not simple majority so surely any consitutional crisis if the GG refused to assent would be more Labour’s fault than the GG. Anyway HC would surely appreciate seeing how a president might operate to thwart HC in the future if we become a republic.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:58 am
speaking of breaking out the champagne – which party do you think would be most justified in having a glass tonight?
Both of the major parties must think that they have a very good chance at winning the next election for very different reasons?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 11:58 am
This article by Claire Trevett in the Herald gives a complete list of which bills the Govt wants to advance this year.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10482021&pnum=0
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
National has done a DEAL with LABOUR ???? WTF??????
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:25 pm
It would be a real `kick in the teeth’ for Clark if the GG refused to sign the Bill and resigned.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
“National has done a DEAL with LABOUR ???? WTF??????”
Don’t be so shocked. John Keys did a deal with helen (photos and everything) over the child smacking laws.
There’s a reason why he said he was the leader of the Labour party.
Vote:I’m sure that will become more evident in time.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I guess if Labour has kept the House under urgency until the adjournment, there would be no more Question Times this year – taking the pragmatic view, the Bill is going to pass anyway, so National may as well have one more chance – as vain as it might be – to hold Ministers to account.
Lindsay – loved your comment about enemies and mistakes – sage advice for today.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
pdm said “It would be a real `kick in the teeth’ for Clark if the GG refused to sign the Bill and resigned.’
Agreed pdm – which is why I continue to support Joseph Mooney’s petition. Of course Satyanand won’t do anything – but is that a reason not to try?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
John Key is known as “Mr Jandal” in our house because he flip flops so much. Lets hope it doesn’t stick… oooer you don’t think socialists read this blog?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
This is the firstt big test for the GG Either he rolls over like a poodle and consigns free speech to obvilion or he refuses to sign the Royal Assent and resigns stating he will not preside over the the destruction of democracy in New Zealand.
The ball is in his court If he signs then he has committed an act of treason against the citizens and deserves the fate of all traitors
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
What a pity.
gd – what makes you think a NZ GG would ever make a stand? They have blatantly refused to in the past. GG are often weak, shrivelled and really a pathetic institution. The worst reason to remain as a monarchy, and probably the best to become a republic.
He is the least accountable person in politics. In many ways NZ should elect its GG.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:54 pm
If the GG has any balls, he will refuse to sign it AND refuse to resign. Think of the stink if he was sacked!!! National could just promise to reinstate him at the next election (with backpay).
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:56 pm
I think the Herald in the editorial today on EFB had it right. National have not seized the high ground. They should propose a range of sweeping radical reforms in this area, including full disclosure, Cheif Elctoral prosecutor etc, subject to a Royal Commission on Constitution and Elections, which has respected mebers, some of whom are from outside NZ.
This then removes vulnerability to attack on grounds they want secret money etc
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:57 pm
Great suggestion Ross!
Sign here folks!
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/save-nz-democracy.html
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Cullen has strongly hinted that the EFB 3rd reading will not be debated until next Tuesday. So the media speculation may have been wrong?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
I should add this was by point of order in The House.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Inventory2 Says:
December 13th, 2007 at 11:36 am
DPF – any chance of a separate thread for Joseph Mooney’s petition – time is of the essence now.
[DPF: Nah because the petition can not succeed. The GG has no choice but to sign it, or resign]
David, regardless of whether or not the GG takes any notice, surely ANY opposition to the Mugabe Bill should be aired as much as possible.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
The GG should refuse to sign the act and then resign. It’s the principled thing to do. That’s why it will shock the country. Someone doing the right thing and quitting their job over it.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:06 pm
Agreed WebWrat – Blair Mulholland’s petition got a lot of media attention last year (the retrospective legislation one), and if nothing else, it keeps the issue in the public’s mind, and maintains a perception that the government is trying to pull a fast one.
DPF – I disgaree with your assessment, but it’s your blog, and accordingly, your call.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/blogs/politics/2007/12/11/she-said-we-were-too-young/
A comment by Juli Clausen, Press Secretary to Prime Minister Helen Clark:
And some good witty riposte from our very own C. Ranapia.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Meanwhile, Helen is quite happy to avert her gaze while some who ‘are active in the labour movement’ set up a blog of their own, which is largely devoted to spreading scurrilous assertions about the Leader of the Opposition.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
NZPA really stuffed that one up, as you’ve pointed out. Tuesday will be interesting – there’s no guarantee that the debate will close on Tuesday, after all. Either way, the adjournment debate will be a highlight of the year. There were some corker speeches last session, the Nats leadership will be even more on fire this time.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:36 pm Vote:
December 13th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
Now some constitutional expert is free to correct me, but the Governor-General does not act on his own behalf but as the personal representative of the Head of State, Queen Elizabeth II.
Care to think through the kind of constitutional crisis that would ensue? Yes, I’m opposed to the EFB root and branch, but the place to defeat it is in the House of Representatives, not by dragging the Head of State into a political stoush she has no legal or constitutional right, let alone reason, to be involved in.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 1:43 pm
Radionz has a story:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/200712131300/electoral_finance_bill_now_delayed_until_next_week
Which says that the plan was to lift urgency some time this morning, so that Parliament could resume as normal at 2pm, there’d be a question time, the EFB third reading, and then back to urgency for everything that was left.
Presumably National supported this – an extra question time would be useful to them – but then they used the opportunity to file over 50 questions to members. If they’d been able to push question time past 4pm (which 50 questions should have enabled them to do) the EFB debate wouldn’t have finished before 6pm, and the House would have risen as they would on a usual Thursday (because during the debate on the EFB the House isn’t operating under the rules of urgency). They’d then come back on Tuesday at 2pm anyway, have another question time, finish the EFB, and the Government would then have to go into urgency again to get through the rest of its legislative programme for the year (or leave some bills until the New Year).
Smart thinking all ’round from National – it’s been a while since anyone’s been that clever with Parliamentary rules.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
50 questions to members! Not only would that have soaked up time, but the complete lack of talent of Labour & Green committee chairs would have been exposed. No wonder Cullen had to carry on with urgency.
DPF: Heh many were by coincidence to National MPs who were Chairs. Eight were to Sue Kedgley though – I have to say even I’m not sure having Sue Kedgley answer eight questions is worth delaying the EFB for
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
Bastards Bastards Bastards
Half a dozen of the aforementioned questions have percolated downwards through the bureaucracy and come to rest on MY lowly desk.
On the afternoon of the staff Christmas Party!
John and Bill – If I don’t vote for you, THIS will be the reason.
My only way of fighting back is composing answers that are completely meaningless and and seeing how far through the system they go without anyone noticing.
F*** F*** F***. Better get on with it before all the beer is gone.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:18 pm
The House is still under urgency and have started debate on another bill so the EFB won’t be seen today.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Graeme – my understanding is that is correct – indeed very very smart tactics.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:27 pm
bobux, have your fill of beer FIRST
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:37 pm
Kimble
That is the best advice I have had all week.
Cheers
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
Some of the posts above really made me laugh. Holy shit, some of you really believe “its in the newspaper so it must be true”. I guess we will now see a heap of retractions from bloggers who condemned the Nats for supposedly doing a deal with Labour over the EFB.
Wake up and smell the coffee………………
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Craig Buts thats my point We need the GG to create a constitutional crisis to get this matter dealt with Up until now NO action has stopped the Socialist and their lap poodles.
My biggest fear is that the Nats wont do anything to change the legislation which as a student of good governance appalls me.
I simply have no trust in any politican or political party to govern according to good principles.
IMHO we have a rogue Parliament that is out of control and out of touch with the citizens.
The only other step is for the citizens to take up arms and overthrow the Parliament and install a government that will represent the people not their own selfish self interest which is what the EFB is desgned to do.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
“The only other step is for the citizens to take up arms and overthrow the Parliament and install a government that will represent the people not their own selfish self interest which is what the EFB is desgned to do.”
So it looks like we need the Urewera taining camps back again?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
Umm, considering even the Greens admit the law is so flawed they want to start reviewing it in February, I’m fairly confident it won’t survive past one election.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 3:31 pm
DPF,
What really is in this for the Greens and NZF ??
As you pointed out already the EB’s can easily repeat what they did again if needed so I fail to see how they will get any advantage from this bill in fact if anything they stand to significantly lose because what happens if one them don’t make it over the five percent threshold ??
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
The best thing for the Nats now is to come up with some positive alternatives to the EFB.. They should be proposing everything the EFB isn’t, and also promoting a consultation process taht was missing from the EFB.
Make the government and their allies have to defend this slimy piece of manipulation to the last days of the lection campaign.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Graeme Edgeler … thank you for the comprehensive piece of analysis. Makes a change from some of the quite shallow responses.
Word is that the Beehive is apoplectic that their management didn’t see this coming. Sad eh.
BTW, hear there are some very very very interesting polls out soon.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
I cannot understand why the Greens and NZ First have been so submissive in their support of the bill. Why they didn’t support the bill but also put up more admendments than they did (I don’t think NZF put up any?) is beyond me. My guess is the Green’s went along with it because the bill is more about stopping National than anything else. But NZF could have taken a genuine independent role here and done themselves a lot of good in the polls.
I do think that behind the scenes Labour have been putting the heat on the minor parties to stick with the bill (remember some of the comments in the infamous Tamihere interview with Wishart?). Peters has lost his political nous because he cannot see that the road he’s taking on this is a cul-de-sac.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
“Invercargill Mayor Tim Shadbolt’s campaign against cuts at the Southern Institute of Technology (SIT) will be severely curtailed by the Electoral Finance Bill, National MP Eric Roy said today.”
Good work, Mr. Roy. Let’s keep it front and centre…
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
I am so glad about this. They can debate this Bill New years eve if necessary. Indeed had I been a memebr of parliament I would have defied the whips and objected that leave be granted for this little manoevre.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Go Nats- keep up the filybustering and dont let those Comrades off lightly.
Vote:Where is the lady who purports to be the PM – why isnt she fronting up to the house lately ? If she is that proud of the EFB bill to control more of our lives she should be leading the charge in the third reading or what is going on ?
December 13th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
“Where is the lady who purports to be the PM”
nice
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
David Farrar said “Umm, considering even the Greens admit the law is so flawed they want to start reviewing it in February, I’m fairly confident it won’t survive past one election.”
It doesn’t have to.
This is one election at a time stuff.
If they don’t win this election, they are stuffed.
If they do win, NZ is stuffed.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 6:01 pm
Who was it in the leaders office that called you David? Or was it one of the whips? The mere appearance that a deal may have been concocted made you change your tune pretty quickly. Their was a deal. The deal didn’t follow through. No, no, there was no deal at all… you sound pretty paranoid.
[DPF: My initial post was based on the news story. Yes I did get a call to clarify that there had never been a deal - I asked quite explicitly on that point and was satisfied that this was the case. I trust the person who called me, and he/she was in a position to know]
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 6:07 pm
Alex – you might need to change your last name when this Bill goes through…to Dixon, perhaps?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 7:28 pm
Buggerlugs Says:
“Alex – you might need to change your last name when this Bill goes through…to Dixon, perhaps?”
I would go more for “Bondsman” Buggerlugs or maybe “Slave” or maybe just “Number six” Who gives a shit, Helen will decide what to call the scum!
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 7:32 pm
Where the hell HAS Helen been when the Anti Democracy Bill has been pushed through. Is she so ashamed of it that she is trying to ignore it? Somewhat like not noticing how fast the convoy was going down Waimate way?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Helen has better things to do than have NZ watch her getting an ass-whupping in parliament over the EFB.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 8:26 pm
Yeah funny how she is never around when the shit hits the fan but gets the little lap dogs like Trev and Mickey to adsorb the crap. But hell who am I to suggest they are the fall guys, after all they owe their well paying jobs to her so I guess they are only to happy to move on when the time comes to rid the Labour ranks of the expendibles.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 8:43 pm
It might be a good idea to come out with some ideas about electoral finance, but the last thing that should be done is for National to come out with ideas that might make this bill work.
The “more rope” approach is a good one, and Labour has only itself to blame for the partisan approach to the whole matter it has taken.
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
The only reason National could have for not opposing the EFB to the bitter end is that they may wish to turn it to their own advantage one day rather than repeal it. This is not a nice thought!!
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
I’m with you there slightlyright. Labour has made its own bed, and now the lefties must sleep in it – although somehow the notion of Clark, Peters, Dunne, Anderton and Fitzsimons in bed together brings wave after wave of nausea!
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 9:10 pm
“If you’re not willing to give up some of your Xmas shopping time to fight a bill like this, then you don’t deserve Xmas! So well done Nats.”
DPF, what kind of fantasy world do you live in?
Vote:December 13th, 2007 at 10:10 pm
NPOG – with a name like that you shouldn’t ask fantasy questions.
Just a heads up.
Vote:December 14th, 2007 at 11:10 am
From the Herald today, article by Audrey Young, my extract highlights what can only be a further threat by Sullen to stifle debate . He really is a very sad little man.
“So the Government abandoned its plans, kept the House in urgency, and will return on Tuesday to begin the third reading of the bill.
Dr Cullen said National’s tactics were “silly” and suggested that it was the sort of abuse of standing orders that led to changes in Parliament’s rules.
It meant a lot of money would be spent next week running Parliament which would not have been necessary.
“The final outcome will be the same.”
National shadow leader of the House Gerry Brownlee said he was comfortable that the party had put up as strong a fight as possible against the bill in the House.
It had had to battle presiding officers who had been instructed to shut down debate on the bill very quickly.
“We did not muck around in the EFB and despite what your editorial says this morning, I think we did a pretty good job of presenting a serious alternative inside that bill.
“We should not have at any point just simply rolled over.”
If anyone had abused standing orders it was Michael Cullen.
NOTE: Sullen’s triumphalist remark the outcome will still be the same.
Vote:December 14th, 2007 at 11:29 am
“It had had to battle presiding officers who had been instructed to shut down debate on the bill very quickly.”
It’s strange that politicians are quite willing to risk and incur the wrath of the speaker by continually harrassing and insulting each other, but when it comes to debating huge future decisions for this nation they don’t need coercing to be quiet in the debating chamber when instructed.
This is how their collusions are exposed. Real issues bring to light their cross party underlying coalition
Vote: