SST/FT special on John Key

February 3rd, 2008 at 12:42 pm by David Farrar

The Sunday Star-Times and the Financial Times (London) have published a series of articles on John Key’s background.

The main article is here.  Some extracts:

His critics say the number-crunching, daredevil skills of his old job will not necessarily transfer to politics. However former colleagues say that what made Key an outstanding success in the brutally Darwinian business of banking was not his foreign exchange skills although they were more than acceptable.

Instead what set him apart were essentially political and managerial skills. He was unusually good at charming colleagues and clients, and rallying staff around him.

“He is a real people person very sociable. We would send him in to deal with the hardest and most difficult clients,” recalls John Kelly, a blunt American who was one of Key’s bosses when Key was head of global forex for investment bankers Merrill Lynch in London.

While most successful traders in the financial world tend to be introverted, extremely brainy or thrive on taking crazily big bets, Key had never been a “typical” trader.

“He is one of the most balanced people I know. He doesn’t flap around under pressure,” says Steve Bellotti, Key’s immediate boss at Merrill Lynch.

“I suppose a lot of FX [foreign exchange] guys do tend to be inward looking, but John is a lot broader than that. He has real leadership skills. That was what made him really stand out.”

Pretty good stuff.  Key, no doubt, does have considerable number crunching skills, but the best analyst is not always the best team leader, and his former bosses seem to be saying his skills were far more than just making the right currency calls.

What is unusual, for a profession in which loathing is the standard social currency, is that it is hard to find any traces of enemies that Key may have made. His career appears to be devoid of the scandal, bitter feuds or outrageous ego-flaunting incidents that are typical of the profession.

Finance Minister Michael Cullen famously called Key “a rich prick” late last year. He was right on the first point, but if Key were a prick, you’d expect him to have collected a few more enemies on the way.

The high stakes and tribal nature of investment banking mean the head of a successful team, such as Key, is often hated by others in rival teams. And those with sufficient character to rise to the top are often aggressive, forceful individuals with polarising personalities.

Key’s lack of enemies won’t stop Labour trying to find some I am sure.  I fully expect during the election campaign someone will emerge to complain the Key was once rude to them or unsympathetic to them, 25 years ago.

The SST also has a timeline of Key’s life. The early years are the only interesting parts (the rest is a list of jobs) with his father dying when Key was six , leaving his mother in debt with three young children.  He met his future wife Bronagh when he was at school and married her when he was 23, so looks like he doesn’t even have any bitter ex-girlfriends as potential skeletons!

No tag for this post.

171 Responses to “SST/FT special on John Key”

  1. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    then of course there is this perspective..

    http://whoar.co.nz/2008/how-john-key-helped-screw-our-economy/

    and one of the more interesting facts is that at the time of the springbok tour..when the country was being torn apart..

    key ‘had no opinion on it”..

    he was at university..studying accountancy..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  2. Grant S (118 comments) says:

    Phil, please don’t desecrate this pristine blog post with links to your online commie rag.

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  3. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    waa waa waaaa…

    Key had to fire some people and he worked in foreign exchange and over 20 years ago he didn’t have an opinion on something .

    What a monster.

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  4. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    he took part in a raid on our currency..that is ‘legendary’ in those circles..

    (hence the ‘screwing’ component of my headline..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  5. redbus (33 comments) says:

    I fully expect during the election campaign someone will emerge to complain the Key was once rude to them or unsympathetic to them, 25 years ago.
    – You’ve said that before. Gosh you’re odd.

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  6. redbus (33 comments) says:

    ‘you’re’ was meant to read ‘thats’. Ah well.

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  7. Peak Oil Conspiracy (2,433 comments) says:

    Redbus:

    Sorry to rain in on your anti-Key theme, but what were your thoughts when allegations “swirled around” David Benson-Pope regarding his historical teaching activities? If you didn’t find that palatable, why should your position as regards John Key be any different?

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  8. george (269 comments) says:

    philu (fool)

    1) The article makes clear that Key was NOT involved in the “raid” on the kiwi dollar, and that he met the person involved AFTER the “legendary” raid.

    2) In any case, the “raid” led to a FALL in the value of the kiwi dollar. Farmers and exporters would be pretty happy had Key been involved in a deal that led to a fall in the dollar.

    3) What does “raid” mean anyway? What happened here is someone took a forward position on the assumption the kiwi dollar would fall. All sorts of people do that all the time. It’s a bit silly to see a moral implication in a forward position on a currency.

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  9. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Talking about the past, I was most interested in Fran’s piece in the Herald here http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10490129 This shows how our “transparent” PM led a totally dishonest campaign prior to the 1990 election. Bolgers plans for a fair and just society got scuppered when days after the election he learned what Clark had known for months, that the BNZ was about to collapse, we were in a massive deficit and about to have our credit rating downgraded.

    What about doing a piece on that eh Phil? Or does the truth hurt too much?

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  10. Inventory2 (9,381 comments) says:

    george – philu is never one to let the facts get in the way of a good story!

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  11. Inventory2 (9,381 comments) says:

    Well said Bogus – weren’t Clark, Cullen, Mallard, King and Goff all part of the Cabinet in 1990? Funny that!

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  12. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,704 comments) says:

    phil, your perspective is the same as that of the deranged fools fools who described the American interception of international phone calls to and from known Al Qaeda affiliates, as ‘domestic phone tapping.’ Sometimes your utterances are almost quaint.

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  13. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    from the article..

    “..He used to work hand in glove with the foreign bankers who led raids on the New Zealand dollar..”

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  14. Peak Oil Conspiracy (2,433 comments) says:

    Bogusnews:

    What about doing a piece on that eh Phil? Or does the truth hurt too much?

    What could Phil possibly say? Fran’s said it all: Hollow Woman!

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  15. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    isn’t this thread about key..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  16. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,704 comments) says:

    Yes phil, and you used to work hand in glove with the pricks who now run the Greens Party. They also ‘led raids’ (to use your quaint, emotive and inaccurate description) on every other currency known to mankind. That’s what currency traders do. Shit man, why don’t you write a hit piece on those fuckers of car salesmen who actually sold Holdens?

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  17. Craig Ranapia (1,266 comments) says:

    Interesting article, not least for the journalistic equivalent of ‘the drapes not matching the carpet’ (as they say in the adult entertainment industry). From the rather humid lead, I was expecting juicy chapter and verse on Key’s history as a buccaneer of the Bourse laying rapine and pillage upon the exchequers of the seven seas. What a swizzle.

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  18. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    a ‘ford’ man..r u adolf..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  19. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “. ‘led raids’ (to use your quaint, emotive and inaccurate description) on every other currency known to mankind…

    ..That’s what currency traders do..”

    precisely..!..adolf..!

    much as holden salespeople sell piles of crap disguised as cars..

    currency traders are vultures..’playing’ the system..

    and creating miseries in their works..

    which has the ‘higher’ moral standing..?..do you think..?

    and..do get john to tell us of his ‘adventures/piles of money made..

    ..screwing the economies of poor third world countries..

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  20. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    “currency traders are vultures”

    When people say things like this, all they do is show that they have no idea what they are talking about.

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  21. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    “..screwing the economies of poor third world countries..”

    You know what really screws the economies of 3rd world countries? Socialist economic policies and trade protectionism in the first world.

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  22. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    But i dont think you have a problem with that, do you phule?

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  23. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    kimumble..

    ..do tell how currency traders aren’t ‘vultures’..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  24. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    Its up to you to show that they are, phule.

    You know, innocent until proven guilty. Then again, it is no surprise you dont ascribe to that philosophy when it suits you.

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  25. Craig Ranapia (1,266 comments) says:

    There’s philu and his lubricious fantasy of Key screwing the poor again. Why don’t you send it off to some tawdry stroke rag and give the rest of us a break?

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  26. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    it’s not a matter of ‘showing’ kimumble..

    it’s just a ‘fact’..

    (your ‘i know i am..but what are you?! “answer..

    ..shows you have no legs to stand on..

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  27. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    still with the sexual fantasies..eh craig..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  28. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    Helen Clark once ran down an autistic child out of spite.

    If I say it is ‘just a fact’, do I need to provide any more proof?

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  29. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    now you are just being ‘silly’..kimumble..

    go and stand in the corner forfive minutes..!

    for disrupting class..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  30. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    y’know..!.kimumble..

    ..often the sky is blue..

    ..and..currency traders are vultures/leeches..

    both irrefutable/uncontestable facts..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  31. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    think..’snake-oil salemen..with gold toothpicks..’

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  32. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    ’snake-oil salemen..with gold toothpicks..’

    Oh, you mean global warming parasites like Al Gore.

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  33. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    sheesh..!..kimumble..

    you are grasping at straws..aren’t you..?

    what’s next..?

    ‘yr mother wears tennis shoes!’..

    or will you cut straight to ‘nyah..!..nyah..!..nyah..!..”..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  34. PaulL (5,449 comments) says:

    Phil, can you not see the parallel? If your argument is “it’s a fact” then you’re asking us to rely on your credibility. And therefore inviting an ad hominem attack.

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  35. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    paull..’sky is blue’..

    that’s a fact..not an opinion to be’proved’..

    ‘currency traders are vultures/leeches’..

    that’s a fact..not an opinion to be ‘proved’..

    ‘john key would make a wonderful p.m.”

    that’s an opinion..to be (hopefully not) ‘proved’..

    got that ‘difference’..have you.?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  36. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    oo-err..!..

    it’s past 4.40..!

    back soon..!..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  37. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    “’sky is blue’..

    that’s a fact..not an opinion to be’proved’..

    ‘currency traders are vultures/leeches’..

    that’s a fact..not an opinion to be ‘proved’..”

    I can see how “sky is blue” can be proved, how Phil, do you prove that “currency traders are vultures/leeches’..” ? .. eh?

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  38. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    ahh..!..that’s better..!

    now..where were we..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  39. Peak Oil Conspiracy (2,433 comments) says:

    AndrewW:

    I can see how “sky is blue” can be proved…

    Oh, haven’t you heard? There’s a VRWC-inspired plot to paint the sky red. So don’t be too confident that the sky is blue, even if it seems that way :)

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  40. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    what do vultures and leeches have in common..?..andrew..?

    they are both parasites of sorts..

    as are currency traders/pawnbrokers/moneylenders etc..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  41. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    vultures aren’t parasites phil.

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  42. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    it’s called ‘taking from the collective’..andrew..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  43. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Are you a postmodernist phil?

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  44. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    vultures feed on/off the ‘body’..andrew..

    they contribute nothing..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  45. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    heh..!

    dunno..!…

    ask owen..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  46. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Didn’t you ever watch ‘The Lion King’ phil? Circle of life etc, each has its role etc.

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  47. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    no..sorry..missed that cultural touchstone/’essential’

    my bad/loss..!..eh..?..

    ‘lion king’..you say..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  48. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    oh, 5:25, gotta go!

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  49. Chicken Little (633 comments) says:

    no..sorry..missed that cultural touchstone/’essential’

    So your ignorance makes you right, huh phule?

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  50. Frank. (61 comments) says:

    Bogusnews: Your thread is a valuable contribution.

    Talk about ‘Going full circle’ – ‘The biter bit’. Just beautiful. Thanks

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  51. Chicken Little (633 comments) says:

    as are currency traders/pawnbrokers/moneylenders etc..

    WTF?

    I can now see why you’ve been on a benefit for years phule.

    Where does that money come from?

    How do you make your living?

    Cause most of those people that pay the taxes that supply your living will have borrowed money off a ‘moneylender’ to try and get ahead so they can pay their tax bill to support people like you that think they’re shit.

    No thanks from you though, aye phule.

    You deserve it right?

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  52. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    ah..!..chicky..!

    do tell us what other disney/cartoon offerings you consider ‘essential’ cultural touchstones..?

    such a ‘simple soul’..aren’t you chucky..?

    you only ever see the ‘shimmering surface’..

    anything below/deeper than that ..is just invisible to you..

    eh..?

    phil9whoar.co.nz)

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  53. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    what have i been doing..?..chicky..?

    i’ve been ‘raising’ a (now 13 yr old) son..chicky..

    a son who has never had to buy a crap lunch from the school tuckshop..

    a son who academically..i couldn’t be happier with..

    a son who received a club award for his soccer skills..(last year..)

    a son who is erudite/aware/kind/loves his animals/dogs/is liked buy all who meet him..

    a son whose contributions to the collective..i look forward to seeing..

    society has got a good deal..!..

    oh..!..i got a masters degree (hons)..

    and have written over 14,000 stories on whoar.co.nz

    thanks for asking..!

    what have you been doing to earn your oxygen for the last thirteen years..?

    chicky..?

    ‘parasiting’..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  54. Chicken Little (633 comments) says:

    Yes, yes, thats all very well phule – but the vast majority of Kiwi’s do those same things without being on a benefit for 13 years.

    Do you really think that being a long term benefiter is a good role model for your son?

    You keep wanking on about your Masters and Whoar, but at the end of the day mate, me and people like me raise our children, run our businesses AND pay for you to raise yours.

    Then you call the people (moneylenders) that support the people (taxpayers) that pay your way parasites.

    Call me chicky all you want phule, but from where I sit YOU are the parasite.

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  55. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    “a son who is erudite/aware/kind/loves his animals/dogs/is liked buy all who meet him..”

    I know a lot of rich professionals who have children like that as well.

    Anyway, phil, maybe you could explain what you mean by “taking from the collective” and why that’s a bad thing. Maybe you could contrast with by explained what contributing to the collective is.

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  56. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    Well done for being a good parent on limited resources BTW phil.

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  57. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    chrs..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  58. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    what ‘business’ do you do..?..chicky..?

    where do you sit in the paradigm..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  59. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (717 comments) says:

    interesting point chickenlittle. So phule, who has spent 13 years on the taxpayers teat, has the gall to call someone who got off his chuff, got a good job, got married, had kids, paid his taxes and supported phule’s drug addled lifestyle, a parasite.

    hmmm, yup i think there IS a parasite on this thread, but key it aint.

    So when are you going to get a job and pay some of it back to society eh phule? – you know, giving back to the “collective” you’ve sponged off all this time.

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  60. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    and what ‘business’ are you involved in..?

    nige..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  61. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    and sheesh..!..

    my ‘take’..

    compared to keys’ ‘take’..?

    whoar..!

    eh..?

    he heap big parasite..!

    eh..?

    a ‘mega-parasite’..!

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz

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  62. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    Phil are you going to address the question about the collective? You don’t have to, but it seems germane to your point about vultures and I genuinely don’t know what you’re meaning when you talk about contributing to the collective or vice versa.

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  63. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    us lesser parasites look on his ‘works’..

    ..in silent awe..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  64. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    in simple terms reid..

    those who ‘give’..

    and those who ‘take’..

    a ‘giver’ is..say..an ambulance driver/nurse..

    a ‘taker’ is..say..a currency speculator/pawnbroker..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  65. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    contributing absolutely nothing to the common good..

    (and in keys’ case..any taxes paid are well exceeded by his ‘take’..

    and are chicken feed..in comparison..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  66. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (717 comments) says:

    and a stoner dpb bludger writing thousands of incomprehensible “stories” on a blog that no-one reads is just what precisely?

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  67. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (717 comments) says:

    If phul were, in between tokes, to have a moment of rationality, he might reflect on the fact that without his evil “takers” the “contributers to the common good” wouldn’t get paid.

    Facts are really hard this late on a sunday aren’t they phul?

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  68. leaning2tharite (2 comments) says:

    your son has obviously paid f*ck all attention to you…cause he seems normal

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  69. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    what is it u ‘do’..?..nige..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  70. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (717 comments) says:

    i’m a parasite phule

    ;)

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  71. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    c’mon..!

    give us all a laugh..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  72. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    pension..?..is it..?

    ‘deity’..’formerly known as’..

    = elderly..

    do you ‘really need it’..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  73. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (717 comments) says:

    i’m younger than you are phule, but nice try.

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  74. Oscars Grouchy Mum (77 comments) says:

    I’m sorry … but for the life of me I cannot understand what philu writes.

    What I do get is that the left have nothing “damning” on Key and its scaring the shit out of them.

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  75. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..he might reflect on the fact that without his evil “takers” the “contributers to the common good” wouldn’t get paid..”

    yeah eah..!..nige..

    we reallty need more (taxpayingor not) currency speculators/pawnbrokers/moneylenders..!

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  76. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    aww..!..mum..!.

    this must have been a very confusing/upsetting thread for you..!

    get someone to explain..there’s a dear..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  77. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    Philu are you lining up for a place on the John Key bootcamp.

    It might help you speak properly.

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  78. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    sshh!!..naughty natty-boy..!

    we don’t use the ‘b’ word..

    it’s ‘fresh start’..

    (you can also pour it down your loo..!..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  79. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    So phil I assume that Geofrrey Sachs has published a bestseller called “The end to poverty” (it’s got a forward by Bono if that makes any diff to you).

    Now I also assume you know that Geoffrey Sachs was one of the Chicago Boys, who developed Hayek’s economic theories into the practical applications that we saw in Reaganomics, Thatchernomics, Rogernomics, etc. He consulted with a lot of South American and East European countries during the 80’s/90’s. As a matter of fact he was in Argentina in the last years of Pinochet’s regime and while he thought about going there, he thought on balance he should. As it turned out, the left associated the market reforms he was implementing with Pinochet (although they had nothing to do with each other at all) and that’s one of the reasons why the free market concepts got such a bad name. And that association was all based on lefty propaganda lies.

    Anyway, Sachs has now used his global reputation to publish a book which says that if the rich countries did what they said they were going to do with respect to donating 0.7% of GDP at the Millenium Conference (US currently gives 0.2%), world poverty would end.

    Now my question is phil, is he a giver or a taker? Also, what about Bill Gates, is he a giver or taker (you know how much the Bill and Melinda Foundation gives, don’t you). There are millions of charities, good causes, good people, who would not be able to operate were it not for donations from “the rich.”

    Anyone who hates wealth, as some lefties seem to, just demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of how life really works. People don’t get rich by taking more than their fair share, they get rich by growing the size of the pie. You can prove it.

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  80. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    I assume that you’ve read I meant to say…

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  81. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    bono alert/warning..!

    (he bores’ for ireland..!..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  82. the deity formerly known as nigel6888 (717 comments) says:

    see reid, big sentences, scary words, punctuation, its all a bit much for our phule.

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  83. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    reid..i love philanthropists..!

    (shame about some of those investments the gates foundation has..but there you go..!..)

    i don’t ‘hate wealth’..

    i see money as an energy to be used for the collective good..

    it is the ‘misdirection’ of that money/energy that is the ‘problem..

    yesterday..on my news-service ‘nobody reads’ i reported on the fact that for every dollar america spends on fighting climate change..

    they spend 88 dollars on their military machine..

    do you need a more potent example..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  84. Oscars Grouchy Mum (77 comments) says:

    So, no dirt on Key and we end up with an illiterate punctuationphobe side tracking the thread onto the US spend on their military.

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  85. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..People don’t get rich by taking more than their fair share, they get rich by growing the size of the pie…”

    it’s not quite as simple as that..

    the means used to ‘grow that pie’ also matters/is relevant..

    (which brings us back to key..

    ..and the parasitic nature of currency speculation..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  86. moondog (2 comments) says:

    I would love to vote for John Key. I have voted for Helen the past 2 elections, and am completely over the arrogance…but every time I look into Jono’s eyes I see nothing! A total void – he’s a fucking android or something! Somebody please convince me otherwise. I don’t want’ to vote for Labour ever again! While I agree with giving people a chance, and am happy to pay for the unfortunate/unable/unstable, I can still end up smiling when I see stories about taggers being stabbed. Is Key going to really live up to my social conscience (however diminshed it may be)?

    On a slightly different note, I had to find somewhere to vent – and this is it! Please tell me that there’s someone out there who agrees that:
    a) Sideswipe is not, nor has ever been, remotely amusing;
    b) Blonde At The Bar’s responses are all written by the same person.

    If not, well you’re wrong and I am right anyway. Take care!

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  87. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    mum..!.

    you haven’t got someone to ‘explain things’ to you yet..have you..?

    still ‘confused’..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  88. roger nome (2,088 comments) says:

    I don’t know about labeling key as “evil” for having once been a currency trader. The profession does seem to be a bit opportunistic and heartless by nature though, so his professional past certainly doesn’t inspire much confidence in his having the humane convictions, that you want in a leader. i.e. Richard Nixon is said to have been very charming in person, and he was certainly very successful at what he did. Didn’t mean he was a good person and/or leader though.

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  89. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    roger..!..how is yoy tizzy with helmet going..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  90. Buggerlugs (1,241 comments) says:

    “it is the ‘misdirection’ of that money/energy that is the ‘problem..”

    like to…
    twilight golf qualifications…
    …unions…
    …people who choose not to work…
    …and pot smokers who cant type in a straight…line…
    only one person…
    confused here…
    eh phil (whoopass.pot.nz)

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  91. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    you ‘violent (callow) youth!’..you..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  92. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    ‘key as nixon’..eh..?

    an interesting/novel concept/angle..

    one..i confess..i hadn’t ‘hit on’ yet..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  93. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    so..’hollow men’ is his watergate..?

    ‘secret donations’ his ‘slush fund’..

    and mccully as his gordon liddy..?

    it fits..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  94. francis (617 comments) says:

    my god. what a rubbish threat this turned into.

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  95. francis (617 comments) says:

    lol, thread. ;-)

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  96. pdm (707 comments) says:

    philu and rogernome what is it about:

    `willing buyer – willing seller’

    that you do not like or understand. It transcends even to when you go to the supermarket and buy a loaf of bread. If you don’t like the price you go somewhere else.

    Foreign exchange trading works on the same principles as does all other business.

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  97. radvad (736 comments) says:

    Phil, please explain in sentences with only one full stop, how, and by how much, Helen Clark has grown the pie.

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  98. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    Capitalism is amoral phil (note the distinction between amoral and immoral please). It’s people making choices that determine morality or not. See capitalism can generate war, build a crime syndicate, alleviate poverty, etc…

    So I don’t understand why you’re attacking a capitalist activity like forex dealing as opposed to the actions of specific individuals or groups.

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  99. Lee C (2,720 comments) says:

    O’Sullivan picked up on the ‘Secret Agenda’ line that Helen is peddling at the momnet and which is being dutifully parrotted by her supporters as we speak, across the blogosphere. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10490129

    “Clark’s not on solid ground when it comes to hidden agendas. As deputy Prime Minister and Labour’s key strategist at the 1990 election she helped perpetrate the big lie of that campaign.
    “In 1990, New Zealand was teetering towards economic recession. But the Labour Cabinet kept claiming right up to election day that the Government’s accounts were in surplus.”
    You see – This is Helen Clark ‘As labour’s key strategist’ – not as one who was duped by the ‘advice’ at the time, as she is often heared to claim, when her positon is compromised..
    National Prime Minister Jim Bolger’s plans … were scuppered when he was confronted by officials just one day after the election with news of a serious fiscal crisis that they had kept secret under Labour’s orders.”

    So that means that in 1990, officials were ordered to lie to the public about the nation’s economic well-being by Labour’s chief strategist – Helen Clark.

    Of course that was long before she achieve the mantle of ‘Honest, straightshooting Helen’ she so prides herself on being now, and people so change, don’t they?.

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  100. Lee C (2,720 comments) says:

    sorry should have read ‘people do change…’

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  101. Lee C (2,720 comments) says:

    Re the givers and takers, I used to hate Maggie Thatcher lots. But she did come out witht eh occasional pearl of wisdom. Amongst them was ‘People forget that the Good Samaritan could only have done what he did because he had money in his wallet at the time.” Or something like that.

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  102. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..So I don’t understand why you’re attacking a capitalist activity like forex dealing as opposed to the actions of specific individuals or groups..”

    this thread is about key.his currency speculating career..

    that is why..

    side show bobs blood-soaked monies/parasitic activities were dealt with on another thread..

    this one is about key/currency trading..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

    phil(w

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  103. Grant (286 comments) says:

    Has SSB murdered someone then Phil?
    G

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  104. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..sorry should have read ‘people do change…’

    are you saying/admitting key was/used to be.. a ‘parasite’..

    and is now ‘reformed’/’changed his ways..?

    (a novel ‘take’..i must say..!..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  105. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    So what you’re saying phil is that you think the capitalist activity of currency trading is parasitic and anyone engaging in it is ergo a parasite?

    So if I’m correct then you could apply the same logic to soldiers and say that all soldiers are vicious killers because war is about vicious killing?

    Is that what you’re saying?

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  106. radvad (736 comments) says:

    “this thread is about key.his currency speculating career..”

    Oh yeah? Then how come you used a lot of words to tell us what a good parent you are? It’s only when it gets a bit hot for you do you try to take the moral high ground and demand we all return to what you want to talk about.

    So, once again, how, and by how much has Helen Clark grown the pie?

    BTW, seeing it is so important to you, I produce kiwifruit (which employs a lot of people down the line at very little return for myself) and own and operate a small business in the service sector. I work up to 60 hours per week and am not well pleased to learn I am forced to contribute to your chosen lifestyle. My children are employed contributors, including my son, who at 22 was an electorate candidate last election.

    Instead of dumping on those who support you financially a little gratitude would not go astray. Try it, it might even help with the bitterness you obviously harbour. Or has it become a crutch?

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  107. infused (583 comments) says:

    You know philu..

    you should

    really

    stop making

    huge fucking

    comments like this

    it’s fucking

    annoying

    ok?..!

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  108. Pascal (1,187 comments) says:

    *shakes his head*

    Reid, Grant, the whole lot of you. Do me a favour please and walk outside to your garden or the pavement. Find an inanimate object, preferably a rock. Attempt to convince said rock of whichever point you have made.

    By the time you’ve succeeded you will have discovered what it is like discussing something with philu.

    Because honestly, the man says currency traders are vultures and he knows this because it is a fact – just like the sky is blue. Phil, I have a fact for you! You are an idiotic commie, who smokes way too much pot. It’s a bit like … that blue sky you know.

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  109. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    What Phil is trying to say in his own spastic way is that it is unfair for bludgers like himself to not get a bigger share of the pie.

    We shouldn’t expect him to work for it, we should just increase the handout.

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  110. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    a tad ‘simplistic’ there..reid..

    phil(whoar.co

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  111. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    aww..!!..pascal..!

    is that the best uou can do..?

    next..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  112. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    ‘..spastc..’..southern raider..?

    a tad non-p.c..!

    eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  113. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    But it seemed the logical conclusion phil (apologies to soldiers, it’s certainly not what I think).

    My point was that blaming a system for something that does nothing more than operate a mechanism is like blaming the car for the accident. I have noticed that some left-oriented thinkers don’t seem to get this but I know you’re more intelligent than them.

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  114. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..You are an idiotic commie..”

    i’m not a ‘commie’..(not that there’s anything ‘wrong’ with that..!..)

    i am more a ‘communitarian’..

    you take the collective/’common good’ mentality (purported ethos) of socialism..

    and marry it with innovative/’good’ capitalism/co-ops etc..

    doing ‘good’ works..

    leaven it with veganism/animal rights..

    and you are getting close..

    and quite a long way from yr old school carnivorous/pollute the world/cloth-capped socialism..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  115. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    Sounds like “communitarian” = a load of fucked up sitting around doing fuck all while someone else is paying.

    Phil are you part of a paid Labour think tank or just another looser living off the good will of tax payers?

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  116. george (269 comments) says:

    philu:

    1) Why do you say currency traders don’t contribute to the common good? Of course they do. Ultimately they facilitate international trade, investment and tourism. And, because of the scale of transactions, they also keep currencies more stable than otherwise. Without so-called speculators, when Fonterra brought home profits, the dollar would leap up. Thanks to speculators, no single transaction effects prices very much at all.

    2) You quote the sentence “He used to work hand in glove with the foreign bankers who led raids on the New Zealand dollar.” Read further (if you can): “He formed what was to be a lucrative relationship with 32-year-old currency trader Andy Krieger … Krieger was the man who a few months earlier had entered forex legend with a massive speculative raid on the kiwi.”

    3) But, in any case, what does “massive speculative raid” mean. It is loaded language. This guy thought the NZ dollar was going to fall. He took a position which, to a small extent, would have caused it to fall. This would have been GOOD for farmers and exporters. Then the kiwi dollar would have overshot, as currencies do, and he bought a position based on the assumption it would rise a bit. Our farmers and exporters are crying out right now for such a “raider” to help our dollar fall!

    You obviously don’t understand forex markets but have decided you hate them — all vultures and so forth. That just shows your ignorance, and nothing else.

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  117. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    raider..have you met oscars’ mum..?

    you two could do a ‘blind leading the blind’..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  118. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..Why do you say currency traders don’t contribute to the common good? Of course they do. Ultimately they facilitate international trade, investment and tourism…”

    no they don’t..!

    how the fuck do currency speculators ‘facilitate tourism’..?

    they contribute nothing..

    they just ‘play the game’..

    all by themselves..

    over in their own corner..

    “..You obviously don’t understand forex markets..”

    what’s to understand..?

    they speculate on/manipulate countries currencies..

    to make themselves obscene amounts of money..

    and i repeat..!

    they contribute absolutely nothing to the common good..

    ..and are just parasitic..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  119. Southern Raider (1,777 comments) says:

    In your own words. Labour ‘s bludger lackies like Philu “they contribute absolutely nothing to the common good..

    ..and are just parasitic..”

    Couldn’t have summed it up better myself. No matter what you say about currency traders at least they pay their own way in the world.

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  120. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Frank

    Cheers

    It’s one of a couple of secret agenda’s HC has had. the other well known one is the disastrous plans for breaking down the traditional family unit.

    But back to the initial point: Phil has done a good job of totally corrupting a valid issue, which is, how incredibly rare it is that a man becomes so successful by acting in an honourable and decent manner. How refreshing it would be if this approach could be applied to politics instead of the cat fighting and bitchiness that is so apparent with the current administration.

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  121. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    raider..it’s been along time since i voted labour..

    but hey..!..you are so ‘off the mark’ on everything else..

    may as well be consistant..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  122. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..how incredibly rare it is that a man becomes so successful by acting in an honourable and decent manner..”

    you mean key..?

    thanks for the belly-laugh there..!..bogus..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  123. john (248 comments) says:

    Shit he has done good for a RICH PRICK, better than clark the liar

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  124. Inventory2 (9,381 comments) says:

    Speaking of hidden agendas……

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/02/hollow-woman.html

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  125. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Phil

    I’m sure you are not as silly as that last comment sounds.

    As a business man, I know quite a lot of the back room stuff that goes on adn the cut throat business activities that go on. A colleague of mine who is the GM of a very large property valuation company told me the other day he could never be a high flyer, as to be so means you have to have the inherent ability of being an absolute scum bag ALL the time.

    There is no greater place which demands this kind of attribute than teh currency room. The fact that no one can list anybody key shafted to get where he is speaks volumes.

    You really show a bit of naivety there Phil. Do you know anything about business?

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  126. PaulL (5,449 comments) says:

    phil, you completely miss what currency trading is about. When you want to go overseas and need foreign currency, you ultimately get it from a currency trader. They provide liquidity in the market. In the absence of currency traders the prices of various currencies would drift around based on who wanted to buy them at a point in time. The currency traders drive currency closer to their true value based on the enormous liquidity they feed into the system.

    This means, for example, that you can’t make money by trading NZ$ into US$ at $1.30, then the US$ to Euro at USD $1.10, then back in to NZ$ at 60 Euro cents. The currency traders watch all the cross rates and drive them down to the effective value. Without them, if you wanted to buy USD but nobody had any interest in buying NZD, you’d be screwed.

    It is simple trading activity, no different to any other commodity being traded. Do you see rug salesmen as parasites? Do you see your corner dairy as parasites?

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  127. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..Do you know anything about business?..”

    do you mean tooth ‘n claw capitalism..?

    a fuck everyone/everything else! belief/working system..?

    or business following the communitarian model..?

    what’s to know..?

    ‘winners’..and ‘losers’..eh..?..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  128. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    “..It is simple trading activity, no different to any other commodity being traded..”

    no paul..

    the impacts/manipulations and rewards are totally out of whack..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  129. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Well put PaulL, Phil, they’re traders, they only exist to provide the service they do because there’s a demand for that service, no-one holds a gun to the head of those who use their services, the service they provide is in priniple no different to your local supermarket.

    That’s different to taxes, which I am forced to pay.

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  130. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    If there isn’t a free currency market, or if they operated as a cartel, you might have a point Phil, as far as I know that’s not the case, if it weren’t a free market you could only blame governments for controlling it.

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  131. reid (16,719 comments) says:

    “a fuck everyone/everything else! belief/working system..?”

    Phil, you’re looking at it like Lenin, he was wrong, you are wrong.

    The markets are there to facilitate trade. Otherwise we’d be in mud huts. Would that be better than we have?

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  132. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    do you think we are all idiots..?

    they aren’t ‘providing a service’..

    they are speculating on/manipulating international currencies..for personal profit..

    they are not ‘dairy owners’..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  133. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Some people make a lot of money buying and selling on TradeMe, do you condemn them too Phil?

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  134. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    So yes Phil,

    If that is your view of business/capitalism then you must be aware that since people are not levelling these kinds of criticism against Key then you should be able to understand why I said how refreshing it would be if he takes this type of ethics into the NZ political sphere.

    Rather than the back stabbing, bitchiness of the current politics, if we can have a decent person who achieves this kind of success in the political sphere based on genuine success and bottom line policy effectiveness rather than how to manipulate the party machine.

    I call that wonderfully refreshing.

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  135. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    bogus..it’s unanimous..!

    you get butt-kiss-of-the-day..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  136. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Unanimous by who?

    I suspect the only unanimous is from you.

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  137. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    andrew w…no..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  138. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    go on bogus..!

    off to ‘special ed’ for you..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  139. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Sorry Phil

    You’ve lost me.

    I was discussing how in an intensely competitive, dog eat dog world, Key has achieved outstanding success based on being a decent person.

    In my experience it is very rare for anyone to achieve this level ofsuccess without tromping on all and sundry. The fact that no one can find anyone who says that about Key is telling.

    Could you level the same compliment at HC?

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  140. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    You don’t condemn traders on TM? The people I’m talking about don’t buy stuff for their own use, only to onsell, they’re speculators, like currency traders, they take a risk that they can sell it for more than they paid.

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  141. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    as i said before..the implications/impacts/rewards..are ‘way out of whack..’

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  142. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Phil, sounds like you’re motivated by the politics of envy.

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  143. moondog (2 comments) says:

    So…hands up who’s from a small South Island town. I’m guessing all of you?

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  144. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    I suspect we are missing the point. In my view it isn’t about whether currency trading is evil or good per se. This is a very debatable point. The issue is what attributes are shown in Key if he can achieve blinding success in an incredibly competitive world which is also very political, without leaving a trail of wounded and angry people behind him.

    I don’t believe this can be said of anyone in the current government, certainly not of Helen Clark (Mike Moore amongst many other spring to mind.)

    My point being how unusual this is, and if he can apply this to NZ politics, then I for one would find it refreshing.

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  145. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    “So…hands up who’s from a small South Island town. I’m guessing all of you?”

    No

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  146. Fred (137 comments) says:

    So let me get this right, there is a “collective” out there which we are all members of without choice. Phil has special status as a representative of this collective and has the ability to decide who is a giver and who is a taker. Guess what the next step is? When someone has been found to be a consistent taker they will be “asked” to make up for the debt they owe to the collective. Now where has this been tried before?

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  147. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    tired..!

    night..!

    got news (nobody reads) to do early in the morning..

    no rest for the lazy..eh..?

    so..just so we are all clear/agreed on this..

    john key..in his former life..was a mega-parasite..

    a giant amongst parasites..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  148. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Now where has this been tried before?

    The Borg on Star Trek?

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  149. Andrew W (882 comments) says:

    Phil, is it true that it’s my taxes that keep you in idleness?

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  150. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    thanks..!..andrew..!

    (would you like a receipt..?..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  151. natural party of govt (238 comments) says:

    “FIRST LIFE: As a money trader in London it’s speculated John Key was earning $5 million a year – that’s $96,000 a week.”

    He he he.

    You guys are screwed come November.

    The SST article looks like an attempt to counteract some dirt but getting all John’s mates to give their version first.

    Should be an interesting 9 months.

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  152. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Phil,

    you are either deliberately, or stupidly missing the point. I suspect deliberately because the moment we start talking about skeletons in closets in the Key/Clark competition, Clark will have lots and lots of them rattling around.

    I say again, the point is that in an incredibly competitive, dog eat dog environment, key achieved outstanding success without tromping on all and sundry. This is exceptional.

    And by the way Phil, how on earth can you talk about currency “parasites” and forget what politicians wth their 4X the average wage are generally considered. Has HC ever had a real job that produced anything?

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  153. natural party of govt (238 comments) says:

    “I say again, the point is that in an incredibly competitive, dog eat dog environment, key achieved outstanding success without tromping on all and sundry. This is exceptional.”

    Well, apart from the New Zealand economy.

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  154. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Oh rubbish NPOG,

    People will buy currency based on many factors including debt levels, government policy, interest rates etc.

    To think Key, operating a trading desk would have the ability to alter an entire countries economy is rediculous.

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  155. Lee C (2,720 comments) says:

    apropo skeletons bogus – http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/02/hollow-woman.html

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  156. Inventory2 (9,381 comments) says:

    Hey Lee – I’ve already link-whored that one myself, but thanks anyway! I don’t want to get a reputation like roger nome!!!

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  157. Kimble (3,955 comments) says:

    Clark and Cullen did more to fck the NZ economy than any currency trader ever did, and thats a ‘fact’ so doesnt need any more proof or explanation.

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  158. Lee C (2,720 comments) says:

    Bogus haven’t you heard – Key is the antichrist with a secret agenda to to sell NZ to shadowy right-wing characters who like to abuse baby animals. Get with the program dude.

    ps The ‘baby animals’ bit was just thrown in for extra flourish.

    http://monkeyswithtypewriter.blogspot.com/2008/01/latest-its-all-over-for-key.html

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  159. Lee C (2,720 comments) says:

    Inventory – What did I say about using the words ‘Lee’ and ‘egermoron’ in the same post? you are seriously pushing it dude!

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  160. Pascal (1,187 comments) says:

    philu: they contribute absolutely nothing to the common good.

    They create wealth. And pay taxes. Taxes which pays for your benefit. What are you going to do without them? Pay it yourself?

    They contribute a damn sight more than you do, phil.

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  161. Bogusnews (414 comments) says:

    Wow, thanks Lee C, I hadn’t heard that one.

    I’d better lock up my cat and parrot!!

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  162. natural party of govt (238 comments) says:

    “They create wealth.”
    No, when a currency speculator makes a pile no new wealth is created. No new widgets are made, no new services supplied. It is the essence of parasitism

    ” And pay taxes. ”

    Hmmmm, John Key’s tax returns might make interesting viewing.

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  163. NZD.JPY (129 comments) says:

    I can’t believe that philu has captured such an audience on this. Honestly, here is a man who thinks it’s ok to demand that we accept his own opinion of his value and fork out for his benefit when the rest of us have to take our skills to the market and accept what we’re offered or try elsewhere. He has no shame in raving about FX traders when it’s obvious he can’t see his own glaring contradiction. Why entertain him? This thread could have been interesting but has turned into one of the most stupid conversations I’ve read here. Do we seriously need to explain the function that fx traders perform, again?? This reminds me of the time I was wandering through st lukes in auckland and some “unemployed workers union” rep tried to hand me a bag of peanuts because that’s all she had received from the govt that year. No idea.

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  164. cubit9f (190 comments) says:

    NZD.JPY

    I agree with your sentiment.

    All I can add is that Key really has them worried or they would not be expending the level of energy that is apparent on this and other blogs.

    What does strike me however, is that the number of phils, sonics, roger nomes and Tanes is very small and their level of ‘noise’ is out of proportion to those numbers.

    They are simply negative over active oxygen thieves. Ignore them.

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  165. PhilBest (4,757 comments) says:

    Please refer to this creep as “philu”. It has a more appropriate ring to it than “phil”.

    Funny thing, but finding skeletons in the closets of secular liberal atheists should be like potting ducks in a bathtub – but the MSM doesn’t bother. And when “Investigate” does it, they get 1) ignored and 2) smeared – by the MSM.

    But if there is ANYTHING these hypocritical F-wits can dig up on John Key, you can BET that it will be ALL OVER the front page.

    If there would be anything that would make the socialists even madder, it would be if John Key acknowledged that Christianity plays a role in his pretty straight-up life. But the way things are in “tolerant”, “multicultural” NZ today, THAT would of itself constitute “dirt” of electoral suicide proportions.

    Barf.

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  166. cubit9f (190 comments) says:

    PhilBest

    My sincere apologies. I in no way would want to associate you with the real subject of my comment which was the unintelligble rambler “philu”.

    Sorry

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  167. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    The only trouble with that – as a generalization – is that apparently philu does break a number of good stories on his own blog, I recall David Farrar giving him credit for this from time to time!

    Although you’re right there’s a unique writing style involved, that does seem a bit nutty to the casual observer – but at least he’s a likeable nut – I hope you don’t mind me saying so Phil!

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  168. Pascal (1,187 comments) says:

    NPOG: No, when a currency speculator makes a pile no new wealth is created.

    Yesterday there was $100,000,000. Tomorrow there is $110,000,000. No, you’re right. No new wealth is created. Just remember that we’ve moved on from the days when we were trading a chicken for a loaf of bread and a handful of onions.

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  169. PhilBest (4,757 comments) says:

    Yeah, man……..I do find those, you know, ramblings………
    like, amusing……..too……

    Pity about the politics……….

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  170. PhilBest (4,757 comments) says:

    ………Why are my fullstops ending up, like……..
    up in the sky……….after my comment is posted…..?

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  171. philu (12,989 comments) says:

    no..i’ll take that on the chin..rrm..

    so..phil-the-inferior..finds me ‘amusing’..

    (blush..!..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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