Fact Checking

March 31st, 2008 at 1:28 pm by David Farrar

One of the sites I really enjoy is Fact Check in the US. While not perfect, it does a very good job in fairly scrutinising claims and measuring them against the facts. We could do with a local version. And they defend and criticise all sides.

For example they defend Hillary Clinton’s claims that she helped expand health insurance to cover six million extra children, but they find she has been exaggerating her foreign policy experience.

They also rebut Obama’s attacks on NAFTA.

And a very strong stinging critique of the DNC’s ads against John McCain. The most notable has been their claims he favours a 100 year war In Iraq, when in fact he said he wouldn’t worry if troops were still there in 100 years if they were *not* being killed or wounded, such as in Japan and Korea.

Tags: 2008 US Presidential Election, Fact Check, United States

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46 Responses to “Fact Checking”

tim barclay (886) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
How about the fact that Clinton claims that she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary when she was born in 1947 and Hillary climbed everest in 1953. He was just a very obscure bee keeper in South Auckland when Clinton was born. Perhaps her parents picked him name out of some bee keeping magazine back in 1947 and said he had a future and named their daughter after him. That last fanciful answer was dished out by her heavy handed operatives. I think she has quietly dropped the Sir Edmund association even though her equally mendacious husband put the claim in his book.
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Buggerlugs (1,609) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
tim – maybe she lied about her age too!

would be nice to see some journos here doing fact checking before rather than after the fact…verbatim might be easier, but it’s not going to get their rating up above car salesmen in a hurry.
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Pascal (2,015) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
http://theyworkforyou.co.nz/

Whilst not quite as in depth as Fact Checking that’s always been a rather handy NZ page.
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tim barclay (886) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:15 pm
The point about the Clintons is they are both mendacious white trash, as bad as each other. Indeed Hillary Clinton may be worse because Bill mainly lied about his private life, (which I can excuse) Hillary just lies about everything. How can anyone deal with the President of the United States if they have trouble with the truth.
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PhilBest (5,060) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:27 pm
The Blogosphere just plain needs to be more utilised in NZ. Kiwiblog is probably the best placed, but how many people who know some inside story that the media won’t cover, know to come to you, and even if you covered the story, how many people ultimately get to know about it? We have not yet got anything of the impact of “Powerline” bringing down a prominent show presenter (Dan Rather).
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PhilBest (5,060) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
“Sir Humphey’s” did a good job analysing the EB “Secret Seven” anti-Green leaflets, and so did Michael Bassett, but as far as the ignorant masses are concerned, the media successfully established the lie that they were a “smear campaign”. As for “Bush Lied”, that lie has gone over on a much larger scale in NZ and other nations with anti-Bush stranglehold MSM than it ever did in the US itself.
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Pascal (2,015) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:31 pm
PhilBest, DPF has been on TV a few times and I believe Russel Brown and others also have a more mainstream media presence as well. It’s a slower process in NZ, but I think eventually the blogosphere will come to offer a certain degree of fact checking to the mainstream media as well.
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philu (13,393) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
mccain is bushs’ bitch..on the iraq war..

vote republican..

for more of the same old same old..

(and we do mean ‘old’..!)

‘how old is john mccain..?..”

“he’s old enough to have remembered things that happened in 1941″..(!)..

and if he were a two-term president..he’d be 103 ..wouldn’t he..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Buggerlugs (1,609) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:42 pm
hey phil, wouldn’t know a fact checker if you smoked all of it…eh…
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Mike (162) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Sounds like McCain needed a fact checker on the fly when asked about contraception the other day, ouch!
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Mike S (231) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Colin Powell said re Iraq that the Pottery Barn rule applied “You break it, you pay for it” and I think there is a point there.
I don’t think the US should ever have gone in, but as thay have, they have a duty to stay till they’ve put a lot of what they screwed up right. Which sort of makes me a McCain supporter?
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Rex Widerstrom (4,965) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 3:11 pm
The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.

The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation.

So, amongst those who’re always lamenting the lack of balance in NZ media, who will literally put their money where their mouth is and establish an arms-length foundation to fund a similar project here?

Not a CIS. Not a CTU. A genuinely independent arbiter based on this model.

Anyone…? Thought not.
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3-coil (1,146) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 3:27 pm
philu – with that sort of ageist attitude, you’ll no doubt be voting this year for the young bloods leading the National party (Jeanette “Granny” Fitzsimon and Clark/Cullen dinasours will be way too ancient for you…).

To paraphrase you:

“Vote Labour/Green…

for more of the same old same old…”
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Buggerlugs (1,609) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Rex – I would contribute to any such foundation, but at the moment all my disposable income is being diverted into rocket launchers and AK47s just in case the election is rigged…
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Rex Widerstrom (4,965) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Buggerlugs, theres not much point to posting under a pseudonym if you’re going to be tripped that easily into revealing that you’re really Tama Iti
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Buggerlugs (1,609) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Nah, I’m just his dealer, cuz.
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kiwi in america (1,895) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 6:38 pm
It’s interesting – since the Rev Wright blowup, some even in the MSM have begun to fact check some of Obama’s claims about his past. This interesting article from the Washington Post, a newspaper well known for its pro-Democrat proclivities, dissects Obama’s “Born in Selma, AL” and “my daddy came from Kenya thanks to the Kennedy’s” stories. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/29/AR2008032902031.html?nav=rss_politics

“Addressing civil rights activists in Selma, Ala., a year ago, Sen. Barack Obama traced his “very existence” to the generosity of the Kennedy family, which he said paid for his Kenyan father to travel to America on a student scholarship and thus meet his Kansan mother. The Camelot connection has become part of the mythology surrounding Obama’s bid for the Democratic presidential nomination. After Caroline Kennedy endorsed his candidacy in January, Newsweek commentator Jonathan Alter reported that she had been struck by the extraordinary way in which “history replays itself” and by how “two generations of two families — separated by distance, culture and wealth — can intersect in strange and wonderful ways. It is a touching story — but the key details are either untrue or grossly oversimplified.
Contrary to Obama’s claims in speeches in January at American University and in Selma last year, the Kennedy family did not provide the funding for a September 1959 airlift of 81 Kenyan students to the United States that included Obama’s father. According to historical records and interviews with participants, the Kennedys were first approached for support for the program nearly a year later, in July 1960. The family responded with a $100,000 donation, most of which went to pay for a second airlift in September 1960.”

Seems Hillary isn’t the only Democrat who likes to embellish stories for political effect.

The DNC attacking McCain on his war record is political foolishness. All the polls show McCain leading both Obama and Clinton by large margins on the issue of foreign policy. It shows they are unnerved by the war issue because they have no answer to the success of the surge (that McCain backed even before Bush did). For Obama and Clinton to be tripping over themselves to rush out of Iraq just as the military efforts there are bearing fruit is the height of stupidity and polls in the US show majority opinion is coming round to agreeing with the Petraeus strategy.

There are issues that McCain is weak on but this aint one of them. To highlight to the voters this distinct difference that will play in McCain’s favour in the General election (as opposed to the anti war left of the Dems that must be appeased during their increasingly hostile primary) seems a tad silly but hey – keep it up!!
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NeilM (341) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 6:58 pm
“Seems Hillary isn’t the only Democrat who likes to embellish stories for political effect.”

looks like it’s impossible not to give ones CV a bit of a polish even when the likelihood of mass media scrutiny is very high.
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kiwi in america (1,895) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 7:43 pm
If that’s so NeilM I’d be curious to know precisely how McCain, Romney and Huckabee ‘polished’ their CVs? It’s one thing for nominees to attack their opponents records (which is what these 3 did before the GOP nomination was sewn up); its another to just make stuff up like Obama and Clinton have.
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philu (13,393) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 7:47 pm
“..young bloods leading the National party..”

wot..?..big jerry..?

and..and…mccully..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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philu (13,393) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 8:05 pm
“..There are issues that McCain is weak on..”

(heh-heh..!..)

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/the-top-ten-craziest-things-john-mccain-has-said-while-you-werent-watching/

here you go kia…(‘your’ man..at his batshit-barkingly-mad-self/best(?)

(btw..pssst..!..those ‘sucesses’ of the surge would seem to be a thing of the past..eh..?..)

still just that bit behind the current ‘play’..

eh k.i.a..?

and as for mccain..?

doyareckon he’d get through the presidency before the onset of his adult-diaper-days..?

(y’know..just thinking about those things he is ..as you say..’weak on’…..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Gavin Knight (81) Says:
March 31st, 2008 at 10:18 pm
i wish the herald had done more fact checking, and less editorialising, on friday
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 7:22 am
and just in case k.i.a. is temped to spin more of his anti-obama bullshit..

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/obama-win-appears-big-in-texas-delegate-battle/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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reid (13,566) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 7:46 am
Would be nice to see some fact checking into the Clinton’s Chinese backers. And how about fact checking the allegations that McCain sang like a canary when he was a POW, resulting in the VM moving the SAM sites and causing the deaths of several US pilots?

And have a look at the latest Gallup poll:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/105907/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Keeps-Lead-Over-Clinton-51-43.aspx

And please don’t read into this my support for any of the candidates, they’re all in my view equally parlous.
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expat (3,980) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 7:52 am
Obama sucks.
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Bevan (3,951) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:05 am
So what your saying DPF, is that it is the political equivalent of snopes.com.
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kiwi in america (1,895) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:21 am
philu
The super delegates will decide this race not the pledged delegates. Clinton told the Sunday shows here that she’s not withdrawing, will stay in not only until June when the last primary is scheduled but will stay on to argue to the Credentials Committee at the Convention that FL and MI be seated. Hmm – I wonder what kind of convention it will be? Hint – look at Chicago in 1968. Obama I believe will eventually prevail which is good – he’ll be the George McGovern of 2008.

I guess you also missed the latest news that Sadr has asked his militias to cease fire. The Iraqi Army clean out of Basra came as a direct consequence of Gordon Brown withdrawing UK troops. Into that vacuum stepped the various thuggish militias that ruled the town. The surge’s success in all other parts of Iraq meant the Iraqi Army had the resources to bring the same stability to Basra that prevails elsewhere. I guess Sadr saw the writing on the wall and stood down. An object lesson on what awaits Iraq should Obama or Clinton win in November.
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David Farrar (1,741) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:25 am
Bevan – basically.
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PhilBest (5,060) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:27 am
It looks like the Lefties WORST FEAR is coming to pass…………Germany, Japan, South Korea, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, The Baltic States, etc, etc, etc………….will iraq be the first major Islamic nation to join modern civilisation? Has Bush done for the Islamic world what Reagan did for Eastern Europe and earlier Presidents did for Western Europe and Japan?
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PhilBest (5,060) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:29 am
Now whether this happens or not, the fact that I WANT it to happen and someone else DOESN’T want it to happen says volumes about our respective values systems………..
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Bevan (3,951) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 9:41 am
Cool! We definately beed a Kiwi version, most of the time politicians from ALL the parties are talking out their arse (especially the current government of the day) and something is needed to keep the bastards honest, god only knows the MSM only gives a crap if its going to up their readership.
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:22 pm
we could start with keys exercise in make-the-crims-pay populism..

this fifty bucks a crim bullshit..

fact:..

( oh..i can’t be bothered..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
kia..this will not go to the convention..

it wil be sorted well before then..

and obama will be the candidate..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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PaulL (5,197) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 1:47 pm
philu: you betting money on that? Oh, that’s right, lose lose for me, because either way it’s my money. (Assuming you’re still living on a benefit rather than getting a real job).
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Bevan (3,951) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
we could start with keys exercise in make-the-crims-pay populism..
this fifty bucks a crim bullshit..
fact:..
( oh..i can’t be bothered..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)

Yes phil, lets turn a blind eye at all the crap that spills forth from anyone else – lets just shine the spot light on John Key….
Lets ignore the FTA with China….
Lets ignore Cullen offering Tax Cuts that were bad when the economy was good, and good when the economy is bad….
No lets just lambast John Key for daring to suggest criminals should contribute to victim support!
Hey Phil, your slip is showing.
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm
what a cutting/rapier wit you have..!..paull..

you must be a delight at rightwing soirees..

(do you have a clutch of benificiary-jokes..?

do tell..!..)

btw..you do know there are two types of rightwingers..eh..?

the rich..and the suckers..

(which are you darling..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 3:57 pm
feel better now you’ve got that off your chest..?..bevan..

(whoar..!..quite a load there..!..eh..?..)

and do try to keep up..!..bevan..

i think you’ll find i dish it out when necessary..ideologies notwithstanding..

(that’s the standard i try for..anyway..

and hey..!

a stoopid idea is just that…a stoopid idea..

and this one has craven-populist undertones..

and i do keep trying to tell you..that by the end of this year the competing tax cuts will likely have slipped right off your radar..

(y’know..!..the economic tsunami..?..the one ‘the farrars’ deny is happening..?

well..that’ll have heated up somewhat by then..

a ‘hot tsunami’..(!)..

i do love the smell of a mixed metaphor..in the morning/anytime..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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Bevan (3,951) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Can anyone translate what phil is saying to me, I think its an insult but I’m not quite sure….
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 5:28 pm
that’s ok bevan..

you just stick to the slogans you stick together..as an excuse for dialogue/argument..

nothing too difficult now..!

righty-ho..!

(do you find quite often that you are the centre of a circle..?..bevan..?

as others runrings around you..?)

don’t bother trying to ‘keep up..eh..?

you know you’ll only get confused..and a sore head..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 7:07 pm
kiwi in america said..

“..The super delegates will decide this race not the pledged delegates..”

(sigh..!.it is getting tiresome countering your bullshit kia..but counter it i will..

’till clinton pulls out..

will you fall silent then..?

your/any pretences at any shred of crediblity..gone..!

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/what-could-make-hillary-quit

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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PaulL (5,197) Says:
April 1st, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Phil, are you saying that my taxes aren’t paying for your drug use, your blog site that nobody visits, your drivel on this website, and in fact your entire life?
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:10 am
thanks paull..!

(especially for ‘the pot’..eh..?..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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expat (3,980) Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:30 am
You are a retard phil. I was reserving judgement but its now quite apparent. pat pat …eh…
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expat (3,980) Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:37 am
(hey)…speaking…of..(populist vote buy)…check-this-out (eh)!

Old “greybeard”.. ‘Cully’ (yuk…yuk) …promises to bribe “”the middle classes”".. with filthy tax (cutz)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10501509

Right..On..Cully (eh?)
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 9:58 am
and as we are fact-checking..

whoar isn’t a ‘i got up this morning..and scratched my butt’ blog…

it’s an on-line news service..

and more..!

365 days of the year..

(thanks for asking/sneering..!)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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philu (13,393) Says:
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:03 am
yes expat…cullen is about to put national firmly on the back foot.. over taxes..

(he was almost purring in questiontime yesterday..as he smiled the smile of the contented..

at a finger-nail-chewing national..

(as they should..!..as they should..!..)

way way back i said labour were going to have a ‘year of action’..

and would leave national floundering in their wake..

that seems to be unfolding..

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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