Editorial on MMP manipulations
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:54 am by David FarrarVery pleased to see an editorial today disapproving of what the Greens have been trying to do with manipulating List MPs in and out of Parliament. The NZ Herald opines:
The most widely disliked aspects of MMP are undoubtedly the lack of accountability of list MPs and the manipulation of party lists. The attempted elevation of Green Party co-leader Russel Norman to Parliament did nothing to improve that situation. This was to be achieved by Nandor Tanczos, a sitting MP, and Catherine Delahunty and Mike Ward, who were ahead of Dr Norman on the Greens’ party list, standing aside. The ranking of candidates, as voted upon at the last election, would have been set aside and Dr Norman would have attained the status and election-campaign advantages that come with being an MP.
It comes down to the fundamental issue that some parties see List MPs as serving the party only, not the wider public who voted for them.
Mr Ward’s opposition has stopped him in his tracks. Similarly shelved should be the notion that party lists can be manipulated to satisfy any whim.
One way to stop it would be to get rid of the ability for a candidate to refuse to take up their spot if they are the next List candidate. Sure they could still resign but parties would be far less likely to try and manipulate the system if a candidate they want out of the way had to be declared elected, sworn in as an MP, and then resign.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:23 am
DPF you and your type make me sick. To what lengths will the extreme right go to next to manipulate our democracy and limit freedom of expression?
sorry, wrong thread.
As you were.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 8:28 am
he he he.
And I wonder why the voting public will (as the will undoubtably will do) vote to water down MMP?…..
It has taken 10 years but finally the middle classes have figured out Hulun has been bullshitting them.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 8:38 am
Just a big game and a good livelihood to the politicians?
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 9:04 am
The Green’s are not environmentalists, they, like the rest of the left, are in government (albeit on the edges) to promote their own political socialist agenda.
Their corrupt attempt to manipulate the Party List, so they can milk more of the tax payers’ money during the election makes me sick. (Puke Green) And they had the cheek to support the Electoral Finance Act to prevent the rest of us from having a say during election year.
The Greens should stop masquerading as environmentalists, (for God’s sake every New Zealander cares about the environment) and should be known as the pathetic, slimey green, pot smoking (cannabis green) idiots that they are.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 9:58 am
David the aim behind getting rid of the ability of the next person off the list to step down is laudable but the reality is that people move on and may not be in a position to take up a seat in Parliament, say, two years down the track. Work, family and health could all play a part in a legitimate decision (as opposed to an obvious rort) in deciding to be unavailable.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 10:34 am
This episode makes Nandor look a right prat. If he says he is going to leave parliament he should stick to his word and not make it conditional on his preferred replacement being given a free pass over others.
Nandor is just another typical manipulative politician.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 10:48 am
I could be wrong but did Nandor not say that while he was going to leave Parliament he would not stop working for “the cause”?
I also know that when Bob the Builder said he was going he was also said he was going to keep working on areas where he has expertise (housing).
For some reason the left only chose to pillory one of these individuals, I wounder which one it was?
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 11:14 am
House of Commons MP’s at Westminster cannot resign. Instead they need to ask the government to appoint them as ‘Keeper of the Chiltern Hundreds’ a position which is accepted results in a MP losing his or her seat.
I dare say that there are various positions in NZ where if a sitting MP were appointed the MP would be deemed to vacate his or her seat. Probable examples would be appointments such as Governor General, High Court Judges (Appeal and Supreme Court judges are deemed to be High Court Judges) and Ambassadora and High Commissioners.
It may not be a bad idea if a sinecure called ‘Keeper of Leper Island’ (that tiny island next to Somes Island) were created and any MP’s who want to resign must be appointed to this position and spend a week on the island, with DOC staff sending food via a flying fox (as the lighthouse keeper did in the old days for the leper confined there), and the DomPost ferry throwing a copy of the sponsor’s product on to the island each day.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 11:30 am
The way parties can manipulate the list without reference to the voters is a serious flaw in MMP. That is why I think there should be OPEN lists with voters who vote for a Party having some say on an MPs list position. Now the Greens are at it, trying to do a jack-up to get Russell Norman into Parliament. There is something faintly wrong with that but it now seems Norman will just have to wait.
Vote:May 22nd, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Dave: A person who voted “Green” – whether a member or not – most likely voted Green to support the policies the party puts forward, not a certain configuration of the list of candidates. That rigidity is apparently an artifact of your own thinking and I can’t see any evidence to support it among greens I know.
The Green party is arguably the most democratic of all NZ political parties. EVERY member gets to vote by postal ballot on EVERY nominee for the list by ranking them in preferential order. A booklet with profiles for all who are standing is sent to every party member to aid their vote. No other party even attempts such democratic candidate selection and ranking.
Electoral accommodations are nothing new. National or Labour MPs who have left office have been replaced by someone from lower down the party list. Reasons for not being available will be varied and many. Wanting to get your party leader into the House would not be trivial among them. In Canada, a party leader not in the House taps a loyal MP in a safe seat who duly resigns and the new leader marches into the House of Common s in Ottawa a few weeks later, rubber-stamped by a mass of safe-seat voters. The National party has not stood a candidate against Peter Dunne in the past so that leader for another party could enter the House. Tough luck for National voters…..
It’s another Orwellian moment, hearing the party with the most democratic internal processes in the country being described by the DomPost (or anyone) as undemocratic.
democracymum: Your assertion that Greens aren’t environmentalists is simply not consistent with the evidence. You may have decided in your mind that Greens should only talk about the environment. That is something in your head. You didn’t ask anyone else what they thought.
Thankfully, Greens and most other political movements see the whole world and look at issues like justice, freedom, democracy, sustainability and the wider environment. National looks at these, too…..or are National just a property rights/ business party that should not look at anything else?
Please do not pretend to define what Greens (or anyone else) can and can’t do as a political movement. You don’t define Greens any more than they define you. No one should attempt to define anyone else through the lens of one’s own ignorance about what that other person really stands for in THEIR own mind and by their own values.
Show some respect.
Vote:May 23rd, 2008 at 3:06 am
What a numpty Steve Withers.
The Greens have clearly been caught with their pants down around their ankles. What a corrupt party, trying to seek electoral advantage from the EFA that they helped introduce. Good on Mike Ward for stopping this nonsense in its tracks.
Lets focus on the important things in life like improving economic growth in New Zealand so we can all drive around in Hummers.
Vote: