Winston’s response

July 25th, 2008 at 5:37 pm by David Farrar

NZPA reports on Winston’s response:

Television New Zealand News has shown Mr Peters saying he has no involvement with the , into which Sir Robert Jones paid $25,000 when he believed he was giving a donation to Mr Peters.

Mr Peters also said Sir Robert was wrong when he claimed Mr Peters had asked him for the donation.

Mr Peters told journalists they should ask the Spencer Trust what they did with the money.

“I have been advised by party officials at the time that there is nothing NZ First is required to disclose arising from the Spencer Trust,” Mr Peters said.

The headline is that Peters has suggested Sir Robert’s memory is fading. I suspect that was very unwise of him.

He has issued a press release:

1. The Glenn contribution went to my barrister . As soon as I learned of it I informed the Prime Minister and alerted the media.

But he never thought to ask Brian earlier if the mystery $100,000 donor was .

2. The issue of taxation on this contribution is without merit. Legal experts have said so.

Which legal experts? Opinion is divided as far as I can tell. In the end not that big an issue as the will form its own view.

3. No gift duty is payable. Gift duty is based on the laws of the country where the donor is domiciled.

See earlier post for differing views on this.

4. No declaration of pecuniary interest is required. This was made clear by the official advice given to Nick Smith as he revealed in the House this week.

Not at all. In fact Nick Smith did declare a beneficial interest.

5. The Vela cheque is lawful.

I don’t think anyone has suggested it wasn’t. The issue is the hypocrisy of hiding your large donors when you rail against other parties that do the same.

6. The Robert Jones claim that he gave $25,000 to New Zealand First?

- The cheque was made out to the Spencer Trust.
- The cheque was not made out to New Zealand First.

Here is where he just won’t front up, and just states a truism. Everyone knows who the cheque was made out to. The issue is why NZ First representatives are soliciting money on behalf of NZ First and asking for it to be paid into The Spencer Trust.

Is Peters really saying that Sir Robert Jones decided on his own initiative to donate $25,000 to a trust he has never heard of, and that it is unlinked to NZ First?

And never mind the hypocrisy of his attacks on other trusts.

- I have been advised by party officials at the time that there is nothing New Zealand First is required to disclose arising from the Spencer Trust.

Your own President and Deputy Leader say they have never heard of The Spencer Trust so how could they know anything about what the Spencer Trust may have done on behalf of NZ First?

7. Neither I nor my barrister has any involvement with the Spencer Trust.

Note the careful use of language. He says “involvement”. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t know exactly who has paid money into The Spencer Trust and what that money has been spent on. Knowledge is not involvement.

And what Winston doesn’t matter is that his brother runs the Trust. Are we to believe this is a coincidence? And can Winston explain why members of his parliamentary staff were soliciting money for the Spencer Trust?

8. The claim that the 1997 Cushing case settlement of $125,000 was paid by an anonymous donor is untrue. I paid the costs and have offered to show the reporter in question the details. This offer has not been taken up and no withdrawal of the claim has been published.

However it is a mystery who paid the $40,000 costs to Bob Clarkson in the 2005/6 case?

I can’t wait for Sir Robert’s reaction!

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53 Responses to “Winston’s response”

  1. homepaddock (429 comments) says:

    “Which legal experts? Opinion is divided as far as I can tell. In the end not that big an issue as the IRD will form its own view.”

    He told Kathryn Ryan on Monday he took his own legal advice http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20080721 – proving the adage that a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client.

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  2. PhilBest (5,112 comments) says:

    Oh it’s just too much, we’re all suffering brain fade on this. We just can’t keep up the effort of making a whole lot of “get Winston” comments on every thread that DPF does, because there’s just so many of them. Good on ya for doing it though DPF, it’s the best “news service” there is on the Winston issue, I love not having to even look at Tim (“Emmeline”) Pankhurst’s disgraceful rag if I can do without it………

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  3. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    I hope Sir Bob is getting in his Jag, racing home and hunting out his boxing gloves.
    Fancy basically calling him a liar, this will fuck Winnie once and for all.
    If the media don’t get him Sir Bob sure will.
    (I hope)

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  4. Zippy Gonzales (485 comments) says:

    Is there anyone who Winston hasn’t picked a fight with? Let’s see…

    Audrey Young
    Dame Margaret Bazley
    Kevin Brady
    IRD
    NZ First Party
    Bob Jones

    Short of kicking Tony Veitch, I don’t see how Winston’s going to get his populist vote back.

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  5. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    “suggested Sir Robert’s memory is fading. I suspect that was very unwise of him.”

    Excellent. Sir Bob wont stop now!

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  6. damocles (83 comments) says:

    Love it. The ultimate “nothing to see here, move along” defence.

    Deny everything, answer nothing. Truly an epic Winstonian performance. Redolent of Orwell’s “1984″ …

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  7. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    “Short of kicking Tony Veitch, I don’t see how Winston’s going to get his populist vote back.”

    You watch, He’ll heroically dive between the uni-student and Condi Rice, to save her from ‘citizens arrest’

    At some stage in the future it will be disclosed the students $5k bounty was a Spencer Trust cheque

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  8. chfr (126 comments) says:

    I can only now how Winston learns that actions have consequences and as my Grandmother used to say “your sins will find you out”.

    Could it really be possible that the man who took down the Master in 1984 could remove the apprentice in 2008??

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  9. Rex Widerstrom (5,124 comments) says:

    Mr Peters also said Sir Robert was wrong when he claimed Mr Peters had asked him for the donation.

    Perhaps Sir Robert was thinking of all those other times Winston went cap-in-hand asking for money, like the time he cancelled his appearance at his own electorate committee’s AGM and sent me at the last minute to make a speech instead. That dinner was worth, I believe, $50k.

    I doubt Sir Robert’s memory is failing, Winston. Mine certainly isn’t.

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  10. Terry J (30 comments) says:

    Truly amazing that when the Met Office sent me a email this afternoon stating Heavy Snow Warning I thought they where referring to the Weather not Winston’s Press conference

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  11. Inventory2 (9,787 comments) says:

    Peters would be wise to remember the role Sir Bob played in unseating Muldoon, his former mate in 1984.

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  12. Buggerlugs (1,609 comments) says:

    Patrick – he might be found out when the ‘student’ is found to be Dail Jones in a long blonde wig…

    Rex – be careful or Winnie will blame you for all the leaks! LOL (should I be?)

    I was at a kindergarten today and watched a kid run around shouting “lalalalalalalalalalalala” with its fingers in its ears. Winnie’s press conference reminded me of that.

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  13. casual watcher (289 comments) says:

    Winston Peters is a cunning shite and I suspect a lying shite as well. He is a disgrace to all the offices he holds and he needs to go. I hope the Nats have the nuts to drive this home and deal to the useless, immoral pack of bastards who are running this country into the toilet. I had to advise someone today to get on the plane and get to Perth as fast as they could because they were going to be so much better off – it was a very depressing admission to have to make and the rot needs to be stopped. Fuck off Winston !!

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  14. Muzza (3 comments) says:

    mmm apparently Winston & Sir Bob are in Campbell live in a few minutes.
    should be interesting to see how this plays out……

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  15. Inventory2 (9,787 comments) says:

    I think Key now really needs to ratchet up the pressure on Clark – this is the worst possible time for Labour to be fighting an election, and if National can force Clark to act against Peters and collapse the government, they could well get two scalps for the price of one.

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  16. Michael E (274 comments) says:

    After that Press Conference, you can say everything is alright and everything is legit. After all, since when has Winston lied or misled at a press conference.

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  17. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    Well Sir Bob sounded pretty good on Campbell.
    Glass of wine always a nice touch.
    Winnie……. YA FUCKED!!!

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  18. Inventory2 (9,787 comments) says:

    Michaels – I’ve just posted on it – Sir Bob has stuck the knife in, and twisted it around a bit for good measure.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/07/bob-jones-hangs-peters.html

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  19. Letterman (184 comments) says:

    OK, OK, so the evidence appears to be clear – however, WHO is actually going to hold Winston accountable?

    It seems that no matter what investigative processes there are, they may not be robust (or independent enough) to hold him to account.

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  20. comsumist (59 comments) says:

    The quickest way to hold Sideshow Pete to account is for Key to come out ASAP and say National will not under any conditions do a deal with any party which has Winnie as a member. Quite simple, sends a clear message to voters, and will save National a whole lot of grief later because clearly the fact that Key won’t rule it out means National ARE considering having NZ First and Sideshow Pete as a coalition partner.

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  21. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    I hadn’t actually seen the earlier Campbell interview with Peters at the door, as Peters was leaving the ‘NO’ press conference.

    Campbell specifically asked him: “This isn’t semantics is it – The donation (OG $100K) couldn’t have gone into a trust account, or to someone else?”

    Peters responded, “Look no, the answer’s not yes, you need to go back to Oxford” (or words to that effect)

    I didn’t realise the possibility of someone else getting the donation was raised with him that he categorically ruled out.

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  22. nakamal (3 comments) says:

    The interview with Bob Jones on TV 1′s Close Up was hilarious. Looked to me like he was pretty well lubricated and the interview was a rambling mess. Nobody is any the wiser though Mark Sainsbury did try to keep it on topic.

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  23. toad (3,654 comments) says:

    PhilBest said: Oh it’s just too much, we’re all suffering brain fade on this. We just can’t keep up the effort of making a whole lot of “get Winston” comments on every thread that DPF does, because there’s just so many of them.

    Well, maybe we are, Phil. But for my point of view, if Winston can be dismissed as a player, then National, if they are in a position to, might just have to deal with the Greens in forming a Government after the next election.

    I’m sure that would be better, both morally and politically, than dealing with the sychophantic NZF. At least the Greens would insist on ameliorating the worst of Nat policy, like privatisation of ACC the “fire at will” employment relations policy. Otherwise, I suspect, “No Deal”.

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  24. Paul Marsden (935 comments) says:

    I predict more ‘dirt’ being dished on Peter’s tomorrow and probably ‘gone’ by lunch time, Wednesday (if not sooner)

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  25. adamsmith1922 (879 comments) says:

    DPF
    Winston may well have paid the Cushing bill, but where did he get the money from?
    Given all his litigation, how does he afford his lifestyle

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  26. Paul Marsden (935 comments) says:

    ..And just where did he get the money from (our money), for his (our), generous donations to all these charities??

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  27. JayDee (15 comments) says:

    Look, let’s be upfront about the Sainsbury interview. Jones looked pissed. Given the Campbell interview showed him drinking an hour earlier he may well have been. Jones raved and rambled and made a fool of himself. Sainsbury seemed to be in Australia and handicaped by sound delay and never able to get on top of the interview.

    Those who expect Jones to deliver the fatal blow will be disappointed. Jones is not going to refer the matter to the Police, so no one will have the authority to force Winston Peters or his brother, Wayne, as the man behind the Spencer Trust, to make statements.

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  28. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    Adam Adam Adam….

    Don’t you read???
    Winnie just goes to court, he doesn’t care “or know” about his bill….
    The “fairies” pay it for him and he doesn’t know who the “fairies” are.
    Nor where the “fairies” live.

    I want one of those “fairies” to pay my fuel bill.
    One for my grocery bill.
    And one for my liqour bill please.

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  29. Alfred (52 comments) says:

    NZ First fundraisers in 2005 knew about The Spencer Trust and advised potential donors that this was a”safe” way to donate to the party. It was also advised that Winston knew about discussions with potential donors. The point here, worth noting is that donors thought the money was going to NZ First, not to some slush fund that who the hell knows (aside from Winston) what it was used for.

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  30. Inventory2 (9,787 comments) says:

    Paul M – that is a VERY good question! To which I would add – who are the other charities, and how much in total was donated? And was the Spencer Trust amongst them?

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  31. Buggerlugs (1,609 comments) says:

    WADROC Toad, a coalition with some hippies, commies, and social rejects? Puhleese. Rusty Norman comes across with about as much credibility as pre-Glenn Peters.

    If the Greens really were Green and not NZ’s version of the Monster Raving Loony Party, then Key might talk to them.

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  32. peterwn (2,932 comments) says:

    Re Bob Jones – while things may be a bit deficient above the skull (I think someone once gave him a half gallon jar of hair restorer), that cannot be said for what is below the skull.

    Winston is the ideal foreign affairs minister. He has grasped the three fundamental rules of diplomacy:

    1. Do not get caught.

    2. If you are caught, then deny it.

    3. Try and fasten the blame firmly onto someone else (eg John Key and Herald journos for starters).

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  33. mickysavage (786 comments) says:

    The real headlines:

    1. Political parties ought to declare the source of their funding, no shady trusts should be allowed to hide the funding source. BTW which party relies on the Waitemata Trust?

    2. Kiwis ought to think of state funding. There are enough kiwis who donate money otherwise to agree to the use of their tax dollars to fund political action. And of course there should be limits, the quality of the idea ought to be more important than the weight of the funding.

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  34. ZenTiger (419 comments) says:

    I thought about it. I don’t think the *solution* to these issues is tax payer funding more advertising. It will not stop kickbacks, and we get an even bigger bill. That’s not to say we couldn’t allocate a bit more time for political parties to make their pitch on a government run TV channel, but in general: Why is the solution to every problem a bill for the tax payer?

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  35. Inventory2 (9,787 comments) says:

    mickysavage

    National filed returns on donations from the Waitemata Trust

    New Zealand First has NEVER disclosed any donations from the Spencer Trust

    Spot the difference.

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  36. mickysavage (786 comments) says:

    Inventory2

    So who gave the money to the Waitemata Trust? It was not part of the returns.

    We seem to know much more about the donors to the Spencer Trust than to the Waitemata Trust.

    It looks like Winston learned something from his years in the National party.

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  37. John Dalley (394 comments) says:

    IV2. That would be a big BS, but i do expect to see a bit more info on Nationals secret donars prior to the election.
    Bet on Peters and Co to start putting the blowtorch on National finances.

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  38. Michaels (1,317 comments) says:

    Micky Micky Micky….
    This is really about Winnie… You know… the one in the shit.
    Why bother bringing up other bits to distract us all?
    So Micky, run away……… cry a river.

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  39. Buggerlugs (1,609 comments) says:

    I donated to the Waitemata Trust – so fuck you Dulley and roll in your grave Micky. Michaels is right – it’s all about Winnie and how fucking inept the Prime Minister is at dealing with corruption.

    Can’t wait to hear about ‘national’s secret donars (sic)’ so we can turn the blowtorch on that trougher Mike ‘Bagman’ Williams again.

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  40. polemic (315 comments) says:

    The time has come for Helen to get a divorce from Winnie

    He is to much damaged goods for National and now he is a real live albatross for Helen.

    In fact the Don Brash Flip flop meter is now twice as applicable to Winston whereas Don appeared to change his ground as time moves along Winston changes his ground and his No’s into yes’s more often than he changes his clothes.

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  41. Buggerlugs (1,609 comments) says:

    Um, I may be having a Friday night meltdown, but why can’t I find the Spencer Trust listed anywhere – Companies Office, Charities Commission…is this a Wayne Peters special trust account?

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  42. polemic (315 comments) says:

    Also it may have been covered by other comments but I see that there was a new edition of the cabinet manual released today which looks a little ironic for it to come out right now, perhaps the Manual has been finely readjusted by H2 to ensure that Winnie can refit under the radar!

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  43. Shunda barunda (2,964 comments) says:

    Winston is an incredibly good liar, do you have to train to be like that? The bigger the porky the more he hisses and fits at the media, and the funny thing is some of the media almost seem to buy it!!!! I think he’s just about out of steam on this one though, I think we will now see the fall out spread. Mother of the nation is going to have to put on a stellar performance for this not to screw with her credibility, and quite frankly labour deserve everything thats comming.

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  44. PaulL (5,774 comments) says:

    Toad: that is the problem with the Greens. You could do a deal with National, and get a green agenda implemented. Instead, you will want a red agenda, and get nothing. Again. I don’t really mind if you want to have a far left party. I mind a bit that you use the green brand to do it – it is dishonest.

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  45. Shunda barunda (2,964 comments) says:

    Very good point Paul
    Under MMP the greens could do very well focusing almost purely on environment issues.
    I have a keen interest in sustainability and it forms a big part of my profession, but unfotunateley for me and many of my friends the green party is out of the question due to their extreme social policy.
    Infact I am now not even sure whether it would be possible to even work on environment issues with them due to their lack of common sense and a logical progression towards sustainability.

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  46. Craig Ranapia (1,912 comments) says:

    The headline is that Peters has suggested Sir Robert’s memory is fading. I suspect that was very unwise of him.

    Understatement of the week. As my better half pointed out, Bob Jones doesn’t see a slush fund to pay his legal costs and he’s certainly could teach Winnie a thing or two about backing up his bark with some bite. Calling Bob Jones a liar – dumb but priceless.

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  47. expat (4,048 comments) says:

    Bye Winnie, dont let the gate smack your arse on the way out.

    The real question now becomes how does Hulun hold together a gummint leading up to an election?

    A/ She can’t, snap election announced next week, August/Sept election.

    This is really an exceptional period of political shennanigans extremely well played out by National.

    What other dirty little Laybore secrets are going to come out of the closet.

    Can anyone remeber what Keys nickname was while in the markets?

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  48. Alfred (52 comments) says:

    Today’s NZ Herald says “He [Bob Jones] also said that Roger McClay – a former adviser to Mr Peters – asked for the cheque to be made out to the Spencer Trust.” then Peters says “He said he had no involvement with the Spencer Trust, that he did not know what the trust had used the money for, and that he had not spoken to his brother about the trust.”

    Holy hell of course he knew as those approached to donate to NZ First were told to write the cheques to The Spencer Trust. Winston KNEW donations were going into this Trust.

    When is the media going to speak to Roger McClay????

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  49. Yvette (2,589 comments) says:

    How much credibility is there now that the $ 158,000 New Zealand First owe Parliamentary services has ever gone to any supposed charity as announced . . . or : not announced as it were . . . or wasn’t . . . ?

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  50. democracymum (660 comments) says:

    You can always tell when Winston is not telling the truth, (apart from when he resorts to sign language …)
    His face starts to twitch.

    In the past few television interviews he has been twitching so much, I thought we were experiencing an earthquake.

    Bob Jones was great last night – and his forthright answers were a welcome contrast to Peter’s lame attempts to dance around the truth.

    Winston reminds me of a doll who, when you pull its cord it repeats inane phrases.
    e.g “This is a media beatup”
    “Are you media all stupid?”
    “I did not have sex with that woman” (Sorry wrong doll…)

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  51. democracymum (660 comments) says:

    Also, given that Owen Glenn’s donations appear to come with strings attached, eg Consul positions to Monaco
    What did Labour have to promise him for their much larger donation of $500,000?

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  52. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Rex – have you considered serialising your memoires? – my blog is at your disposal. Lee – MWT

    ps repetitious but:
    Isn’t it funny how Dail Jones came out of nowhere last February and let slip about ‘$100,000′ and had Winston stamping the fire out real quick? Then isn’t it funny that the ‘$100,000′ re-emerged courtesy of an Owen Glenn email just last week? And isn’t it funny, now that Winston is out of the country another death-blow against Winston has been administered by Sir Bob today?

    Winston has been ‘out of control’ for a while, and his party may sink or swim according to him. But what if Winston were out of the equation? Would the Party survive?

    When do you stage a coup? When the leader is sat behind his desk, or do you wait until he is out of the country? are we witnessing the political assassination of Winston Peters, and possibly the collapse of the ‘Labour lead Government’?

    Is that what you get when you mess with the big boys?

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  53. kiwi in america (2,321 comments) says:

    buggerlugs
    Private and Family Trusts don’t need to be registered with any government agency unlike Companies, Friendly Societies and Charitable Trusts. If a Trust owns a property, only the names of the trustees will appear on the title because Trusts themselves cannot contract (unlike a company) and the only people who can legally bind a trust to do anything are the trustees. Typically if the Trust wishes to open a bank account then it must furnish a copy of the Trust Deed to the bank to ensure that it has the correct clauses that empowers the trust to do things like open bank accounts. The only reason why we know Peters’ brother is the trustee of the Spencer Trust is because someone in NZ First must’ve told someone in the media.

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