No minors
There will be two head to head debates with Clark and Key, but no debates with all eight party leaders.
Can’t say I blame either of them – would you want to appear with Winston?
I presume they will also have a debate or two with the leaders of the six minor parties in Parliament
No TweetBacks yet. (Be the first to Tweet this post)
Tags: debate, Helen Clark, John Key
September 27th, 2008 at 8:38 am
In the minor leaders debate Rodney vs Winston should be fun.
Is head butting allowed?
September 27th, 2008 at 8:39 am
I am disappointed but not surprised. John Key is making a political career out of agreeing with Helen Clark. Anti-smacking, Emissions Trading Scheme, Working for Families, and now this.’
Its disappointing for voters. We need to debate the future direction of the country this election, and that means a debate with ideas for controlling government expenditure, slashing red tape, three strikes and your are out, school choice and so on.
Why wouldn’t the man who wants to be Prime Minister want to debate the issues …. and line up against Helen Clark and Winston Peters? I would have thoght it would be gold!
Rodney
September 27th, 2008 at 8:48 am
I would love top see Rodney take on Clark and raise moral issues and liberal principles and get her to justify Labours State theft, dealing the drug welfare dependancy, and the slow genocide of Maori via the benefit.
September 27th, 2008 at 8:54 am
How come they have the say in this abhorrent exclusion?
Seems weird to me. Might as well state that FFP is now back!
Would love to see all the leaders on a panel, and interrogated by journalist and the GP. Like Question Time in the UK.
Have a look on You Tube
September 27th, 2008 at 8:58 am
Rodney – please try and arrange another minor parties debate – that would be a great opportunity for the public to compare say Act vs UF or Winston First (if he turned up). I do agree that 8 is too many on the stage at once – and a minor leaders debate will be a good thing to expose the differences in what a co-alition partner will bring to a National Government (and expose if any minor party will work with Winston in a Labour-first axis?
I do want to see Clark go head-to-head with Key. All her vile and hate will be exposed for the NZ to see. Key will hopefully be up to it – but in 2005 he took apart the nasty Cullen – and I expect he will surprise and do so again but this time to the already defeated Clark.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Once again Rodney shows us why ACT constantly fights above its weight in parliament. I think we would all like to see you take on Winston, Clark and ‘Blue’ Clark on TV.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:14 am
It does seem a bit hard on the minor parties.
However, I have found in the past that all-in debates are a bit pointless due to the fact that there is not really enough time for leaders to develop their ideas etc. For instance, eight leaders in a one hour debate have little over 7 minutes each if time is divided evenly. Since the major parties will have by far the greatest say in policy after the election, it seems only right that voters have the chance to get a good idea of what those policies will be and what the leadership will be like.
Perhaps National and Labour could send their deputies along to the debates for all parties.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:27 am
Each party should choose a champion (not necessarily a politician) and they should wrestle, for ultimate primacy, topless.
In a vat of cold baked beans.
sorry, wrong thread….
September 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
I agree completely with Key and Clark.
They are the foundations of any future government. They will provide the philosophical bias to the govt- to the left or right.
On the night of a multi-party debate things can happen which diminish the emphasis of that philosohical debate when people like Dunne or Peters can come out of left court and hi-jack a lot of very uncertain voters. Sympathy can often occur.
We need to see the eyeballs of Helen and John ! Let the debate start.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:42 am
I thought Helen & Winston would want to appear together, perhaps dressed the same and answering questions for each others like the Veronica’s.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:59 am
A debate between John and Helen? What is there to debate? They agree on everything, except on who should be PM. And they’re gonna debate 60 minutes about that? This is going to be the least watched debate in NZ’s history.
September 27th, 2008 at 10:02 am
No, that is bullshit.
Head to Head debates between Clark and Key are pointless. It’s not just an election about them.
There should be a debate between all the parties, including Winston, or none at all.
The arrogance of Clark and Key on this one is astounding.
September 27th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Why wouldn’t HC want to debate with JK one on one, more time to make him look like the lightweight he actually is.
JK has no opportunity to be stage managed and will need to speak on what National actually stands for, nothing. This is going to be impossible task for John Key and Helen Clark knows that.
Bill English fort next National Party leader coming up.
As has been said by all political commentators, “this election is Nationals to lose” and John Key is Nationals weakest link as he is not expressing what National under him truely stands for. “Bye Bye Slippery”
September 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Debates with 8 people on stage all interrupting (excpet that lovely Jeanette cause she’s far too polite) are a dogs breakfast. Each leader gets very little time to go into any detail so you do not end up being much better informed. However, I think Key has really cocked up here. He will be playing to Clark’s strengths by doing this and she will eat him alive in the one on one debates while he stands there looking shifty and indecisive. At least with the multi party debate it would have limited the potential damage.
Hmm Clark eating Key alive, why do I get this image of a praying mantis eating its mate or an ogre eating its young?
September 27th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Excellent, Key wants to jump on board the Clark arrogance express.
Just plan on three years John. We could well get a taste for firing PM’s with any luck.
If Key had shown up and Clark hadn’t it would have been a win, but once again he’s doing deals with behind our backs. Not good enough.
September 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Except that praying Mantis is definitely hetrosexual!!!
September 27th, 2008 at 10:56 am
Innocent bystander
OK, so lets just have two parties in parliament because the other parties interrupting the absolute power of an FPP govt is just interrupting. Far-out… What has democracy come to in NZ when the major parties decide it’s all about them. How much for a one way ticket to Aussie these days ?
Actually why not just have Helen on the debate – she will spend most of her time talking about John Key so even he’s not required. Parliament would be better with just one party as well – no interruptions.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Good Lord.. a sign of maturity at last?
The public haven’t been kind to MMP since 1999 and have been swatting away frivolous and vanity parties by the score. The current polls show that even the survivors have been polling around the 1-3% mark, except for the Greens, and don’t deserve transfusions in the run up to the elections.
Basically they are a pox on Democracy because they allow grizzlers and grumpies too much say without responsibility or reason and mostly emit carbon in enclosed places.
The nonsense of having 6-8 spokesmen in one place yammering at a worm isn’t a debate but a trailer trash show manipulated by numpties with dials that go up when someone mentions “caring” and down when someone mentions “restraint”.
“a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.”
JC
September 27th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Burt – I’m not voting for either of the major parties and I’m quite happy that the minor parties will still be a check on the absolute power of the majors and that democracy will not be brought to its knees just because we’ve forgone the opportunity to watch 8 overgrown toddlers having a shouting and pooh flinging match. An 8 person “debate” adds precisely nothing to the overall process.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:25 am
i am surprised that key agreed to this..
(add that to the list..)
the multi-party format would have protected him more..
it’s gonnabe trainwreck-television..
going on watching a year of questiontime..
..i gotta say..
..clark is going to monster/obama him..
..phil(whoar.co.nz)
September 27th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Understand that H2 made this arrangement, on behalf H1, of course.
Am very sure that she would not wish to be “on stage” with Winston, at any time before the election, in case he turns on her.
To go “feral” suddenly on live TV – wow.
He has a huge hold on H1 & H2, which is why she will not sack him.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:43 am
“No minors”
So I guess NZ1 wont be sending Ron Mark…
September 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
This is outrageous. And I am sickened to see DPF supporting such an anti-democratic decision by Clark and Key. I suspect DPF knows this is wrong. We live in a democracy, and the leaders of the two main parties are not the only people with opinions about the direction of the country. How can we call ourselves a democracy when the true leader of the opposition – Rodney Hide – is excluded from the debates? It is a farce. Shame on them and all who support them!
September 27th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Both sides are right in this debate.
Clark and Key are the only PM-candidates and we need to see them head-to-head. We need to give the the time to develop their positions fully without the clutter and confusion of six others.
But. Democracy requires that all have a chance to put their position before the voters. Having the full range on stage would give great opportunities for seeing the mix and match. And attack/defence from multiple angles can be most revealing.
I think the ideal would be three debates: two one-on-one, and one free-for-all.
September 27th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
I think a debate between ACT and Labour would be ideal. It would benefit both parties, since Labour is so keen to paint ACT as National’s hidden agenda.
September 27th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
TV3 suggests that the idea for ‘John vs. Helen’ came from Helen.
Who’s Americanising politics now?!
September 27th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
This is ridiculous. How can Key and Clark so arrogantly subvert democracy?
No way can I give either of my votes to National now – sorry Stephen Franks, but you have your leader to blame.
September 27th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
I was a bit light hearted in my response. For the record I would support there being at least one debate with all eight leaders.
September 27th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
All eight? If Jimbo counts as a party then what about TP Fields & Gordon with their Kiwi and Family Parties? Then what about all the other no hope parties. See it all gets messy. Where do you draw the line. That been said I would love to see some tag team debating. Key and Hide v Clark and Peters.
September 27th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Radar
With all due respect, no one has suggested that there are only two people with opinions about the direction the country should take.
However, there are only two likely candidates for the job of Prime Minister, irrespective of what you might think of them. We deserve to see them go one-on-one for a decent length of time, rather than take part in an eight-way heckling contest.
In a perfect world, we would get a couple of debates with just the ‘big two’, and another couple with all party heads. That is probably too sensible for NZ television programmers to consider.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Bullshit bobux. Which country held to mercy by minor parties have you been watching for the last decade?
I want to se these two people answering questions about their potential coalition partners even if you don’t.
I’m frankly sick to bloody death of elitism.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I just hope the debates are conducted in the manner of the McCain/Obama debate. Polite, reasoned discussion of the issues with audience noise eliminated. Instead as someone said we will have Clark screaming vile hatred at the top of her voice as usual without any moderation…The minors should be heard but in a separate timeslot.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Murray
What the hell has elitism got to do with it?
I would also like to see debates featuring all leaders, as per my post.
But I also want to get a longer look at whoever will head the next government. I’m not going to get that with an eight-way debate.
September 27th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
A head to head between Key and Clark will be all the more revealing without the others. The fewer squeaks from them the better. Besides… all they’ll do is try to hog the spotlight to promise the kind of things they’ll never be able to deliver on. Clark may be comfortable being on stage with liars, cheats and hipocrites like Winston Peters, or five-party hopper seventy-year-old pensioner Jim Anderton – but there’s absolutely no upside for John Key. He’s better off having one main target to knock off.
In the end what we want to see are the real differences betwween the choices we could have for our future. The one-man band parties are a distraction to the main event pure and simple. Let them have their own show – that way those that need a good laugh can choose to tune in, or not, as they see fit.
September 27th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
This is MMP for chrissakes, not FPP. Key & Clark arrogance again.
September 27th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
It is often revealing just who is refusing to debate whom. Rodney Hide and Roger Douglas have standing challenges to pretty much anybody and everybody, but Clark and most others won’t be drawn, they like to claim it would be a waste of time because Act is irrelevant, but it is not half obvious they are scared stiff of ever letting ACT get their message out in such a brutally clear forum.
September 27th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Actoids gone feral again. Look guys, get real, the next Government will be headed either by National or Labour.
That’s the reality. That’s where the action is. By all means lets have a minor party debate and if Rodney wants to reflect the view of some here that John Key is nothing but Helen Clark in drag let him say that up front … and see how far that gets him …. <2% and static going south.
If Rodney wants to wear a silly yellow coat in Parliament then fine. If Rodney wants to screw the Privileges debate by appearing as a vinductive bully then fine. If Rodney wants to ‘heavy’ Heather Roy into producing a second minority report which would have put at risk the consensus view established by way of the majority report then fine … and congrats to Heather Roy for standing up to him. But just don’t pretend to be pure when you’re not.
Your puking holier than thou attitudes just don’t cut the mustard out there in voter land and neither they should because it is just shallow hubris to articulate positions in the full and certain knowledge that they will never become reality in an MMP envioronment. And can we be forgiven for pointing out the hypocrisy of articulating, on one hand, so ‘freedom of choice’ for parents in education while on the other standing firm against challenging the canard of school zoning just to maintain property values in the Grammar Zone … real principled that one guys.
ACT is is minor Party
Winston First is a minor Party
Greens are a minor Party
Progressives are a minor Party
UF is a minor Party
Just what part of minor don’t you understand.
Throw stones if you want too but if you do expect a return on your investment. But at the end of the day remember who the enemy are although for some of you clearly its National rather than Labour. Sad but true.
September 27th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
“….and the slow genocide of Maori via the benefit”
The benefit is very hard to get onto now which is why so many go to sickness benefit.
This is usually drug afflicted after a stint in Henry Bennett.
Less Maori are being institutionalised and more are becoming academic.
When cigarettes are finally banned, Maori are more educated and the older uneducated generation have died off, Maori will go from strength to strength with a fresh vision and fresh attitudes wsithout being hampered by old mindsets.
This is hoping Maori will educate themselves instead of relying on the treaty gravy train that only a few top Maori are really benefiting from. Professional Maoridom will become a majority, not a minority in the race.
September 28th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Ross, it is only you who has gone feral here, abusing Rodney Hide and making baseless allegations.
You’re not Winston Peters in disguise by any chance?
September 28th, 2008 at 8:26 am
ACT isn’t against zoning?! WTF?
September 28th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Gooner … if you don’t believe me ask yourself why Hide tried to amend the majority report, endorsed by Roy, to have WP suspended from Parliament. The amendment failed.
Stephen … ACT is against the removal of zoning in the Grammar Zone. Ask Rodney because that’s what he’s telling Epsom voters.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:40 am
That would seem to render ‘school choice’ so useless as to be non-existent – but i’ll wait until I see a source, seeing as I don’t live in Epsom just yet…
September 29th, 2008 at 7:00 am
The only debate I want to see is a one on one between Roger Douglas and Michael Cullen.
Nothing quite like seeing a grown man like Cullen break down on live television. Roger Douglas would destroy Cullen. It would be one to savour on YouTube.