General Debate 15 January 2009

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Redbaiter

A very good video that explains how the power obsessed left exploit democracy. It shows how their ideology has to eventually bring about an oligarchy, and why a Republic underpinned by a constitution is the superior form of government to a straight democracy, in that such a system limits the left’s ability to engineer political and cultural totalitarianism. (as they are attempting to do in so many countries today)

http://crusader-rabbit.blogspot.com/2009/01/lesson-is-crystal-clear.html
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January 15, 2009 8:46am
Patrick Starr

…………..so will we get another chance for general debate on 25 Jan?
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January 15, 2009 8:48am
Brian Smaller

DPF did say blogging was going to be light today because of his piss-up committments at that conference….
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January 15, 2009 9:24am
Inventory2

Patrick – DPF is just showing how good he is at forward planning 😉
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January 15, 2009 9:25am
goodgod

A very good video that explains how the power obsessed left exploit democracy.

Yes, just watched it. It may put our times into a historical context, but are you sure it isn’t just a catalogue of the human condition of excess in all things? Of the styles of rule that he names, they are all in a state of transition, with the period being hundreds of years for the stable or just a few years for the less stable. The Left may be a catalyst of transition, much like the far Right, but the base material for transition lies in us all in our excesses. No people can hope to retain a republic in it’s pure form without learning to transcend their own desires and excesses.
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January 15, 2009 9:57am
Gulag Archipelago

Good link Redbaiter. Obama may attempt to “reform” the US Constitution. A major factor is the quality of a culture in a nation. Our culture will succumb because large numbers go with the flow of the prevailing fashion and will not take a stand for anything unless it affects their wallets. Lenin targeted the Tsar before the 1917 Revolution, the left targeted John Key at the last election.
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January 15, 2009 10:12am
TimG_Oz

Just when I think New Zealand is starting to grow up on World events.

A family in invercargill get kicked out of a cafe because they are Israeli:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4818871a11.html

The cafe owner is Turkish – but Turkey and Israel have good relations – you can fly direct between th countries. This really comes down to ethnic discrimination.

I can tell you now that the Israeli + Jewish communities combined in Invercargill would not amount to more than a few families.
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January 15, 2009 10:51am
slightlyrighty

This turk needs to be sat down and have things explained to him that this is (apart from the fact that it is illegal) not the way we do things. Do not bring that conflict into this country, no matter how you might feel.
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January 15, 2009 11:03am
Redbaiter

“Obama may attempt to “reform” the US Constitution.”

He will, because it is that document that restrains the left in their totalitarian ambitions. They talk insufferably of their regard for democracy, but their version of democracy is a one party totalitarian state where people get to vote on different leaders who all have the same objective- entrenchment of socialist ideology to the exclusion of all other ideologies.

It has become apparent to me that democracy is being totally perverted by the left, (in the historical fashion referred to in the video) and that as a result of this perversion, our freedoms and choices are increasingly in danger. The farce of the recent US election is proof enough of this, if events in the UK are not sufficient to convince.

The problem in the US of course is that the left have by means of the public education system, totally corrupted the political understanding of the average American, who no longer have the regard for the Republic and its Constitution that they should. Similarly in the UK, the left have used the education system to totally destroy the respect for individual rights and freedoms that was the heritage and hallmark of of the British isles.

NZ has to become a Republic, but more importantly it has to have a strongly written constitution, one formulated to ensure that the underhand strategies of the democracy destroying totalitarian left are never again able to see the light of day.

The challenge is who will write such a constitution? There is not a politician today (other than perhaps Rodney Hide) I would trust with this endeavour. Maybe in the end, it will need to be borne of similar sacrifice as the American Constitution. Bloodshed is looking to me, as the left tighten their fatal grip on so many of our institutions, more likely every day.
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January 15, 2009 11:11am
MyNameIsJack

“This really comes down to ethnic discrimination. ”

I suspect you will find it has a lot more to do with religion than ethnicity.

It is time for us to join the moslems in ijtihad, although I would go further than this author and bring it to all religions.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090107.wcomanji08/BNStory/specialComment/home?cid=al_gam_mostemail
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January 15, 2009 11:12am
mike12

This Invercargill case is not discrimination because the aggreived are white middle class people.
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January 15, 2009 11:17am
TimG_Oz

Thanks Jack – good article.

Religion does play a big part – but the family were hardly eating in the establish because they were strictly kosher. It sounds like they are very happy immigrants that have made New Zealand their home. The Turkish owner too.

That some are taught from a young age to hate .. it is a tragedy.

In the 90’s there used to be a multi-cultural day in Palmerston North once a year. We helped out with the Israeli stand and did some Israeli dancing. I remember a young Arabic boy was coming around all the stalls getting the giveaways – he was happily chatting to us until he saw the Star of David – then he froze. He seemed shocked that we didn’t have horns! At the time I said that I hoped it was just a small step along the long road to improved relations and peace….
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January 15, 2009 11:32am
MyNameIsJack

“That some are taught from a young age to hate .. it is a tragedy.”

Which is why it should be illegal to instruct anyone in religious belief until, say 16, a time when some critical facilities have formed. Otherwise you end up with people whose only rational is the circular logic of “The bible sais god exists. God wrote the bible. Its all true”.
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January 15, 2009 11:36am
Redbaiter

“Which is why it should be illegal to instruct anyone in religious belief until,”

Good. Lets get socialism to hell out of our schools and pre schools then. (Just look at the damage its done to you and the other shallow and easily manipulated low IQ leftist dipshits that proliferate here)
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January 15, 2009 11:40am
MyNameIsJack

What socialism in pre schools and schools? Do you still look for reds under your bed every night? I suggest you change your screen name to something more accurate – say shadowjumper.
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January 15, 2009 11:44am
TimG_Oz

“Which is why it should be illegal to instruct anyone in religious belief until, say 16,”

I disagree – it is important to be able to teach ethics in the form of your choosing to your children. If they learn it when they grow up they then have the knowledge to apply it, to make decisions, and to apply it as they will. At least in regard to mainstream religions, including moderate Islam, which teaches a lot of good.

You will find most of the extremists in any religion are converts, or take on the extremities in their formative teenage/early 20s years. Although, few religions show kids the extreme propaganda that Hamas does.
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January 15, 2009 11:52am
MyNameIsJack

Sorry, Tim. All religions are based on lies. You may think it is OK to base your ethics on lies, but I couldn’t possibly agree.
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January 15, 2009 12:01pm
TimG_Oz

Firstly Jack – it’s a free country so people have the freedom to practice or not practice religion as they choose.

But Jack – where do you think Ethics came from? “Do not kill”? “Love Thy Neighbour”? “Do unto others as they would do unto you”? “Establish courts of law”?

Whether you believe the history or not, is up to you. But Ethics originally stem from religion. Yes I know that all religions are hypocritical and one-eyed (Atheists usual response), but you cannot ignore this …

Without these ethics, you get people (like the guy in Sweden) who runs around shooting people stating – we are all just animals and I have a right to decide who lives and dies.
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January 15, 2009 12:08pm
Gulag Archipelago

So much for freedom of ideas and belief, considering the communists were the biggest murderers of the 20th Century we would not want to educate anybody in ethics, it might lower the murder rate,
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January 15, 2009 12:10pm
MyNameIsJack

“Firstly Jack – it’s a free country so people have the freedom to practice or not practice religion as they choose.”

Actually, they don’t. There are many religious practices that are illegal in NZ. Adding a few more in the sake of truth would not be a problem.

“But Jack – where do you think Ethics came from?” Human experience and growth. Not from god(s).

“…Atheists usual response…” I am not an atheist.

“Without these ethics, you get people (like the guy in Sweden) who runs around shooting people stating – we are all just animals and I have a right to decide who lives and dies.”

Total bollocks if you think that the lack of religion had anything to do with his actions. Religion is the single biggest killer ever invented. Let’s go back to the current Israel/gaza situation. Do you think that would be happeing if neither side had its religion?
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January 15, 2009 12:16pm
Gulag Archipelago

Atheism not a religion? Only non atheists can be hypocrits, that is a bit illogical and contrary to experience.
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January 15, 2009 12:26pm
TimG_Oz

Jack’s response actually reminds me of this true story – of Maryasha Gorelik

In Stalin’s Russia in 1930’s – all religion was banned. One particular Jewish family defied this ban under and continue to practice. Eventually the police discovered that and sent the father off to gulag in Siberia (where they later found that he died).

One Friday evening, there was a knock at the door – the Maryasha (with 5 children) had scraped together various oils and waxes to make candles, when they were also met by a lady officer of the police or KGB. The policewoman saw the maeshift candles and mocked – “There is no need for religion any more – Stalin’s Russia now provides everything you need!”.

Maryasha passed away at the beginning of 2007, aged 106. She had over 500 descendants, all practicing Judaism in every continent of the world, including the former soviet union. She (and her religion) indeed outlived Stalin’s Russia.
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January 15, 2009 12:28pm
Redbaiter

“What socialism in pre schools and schools?”

Hahha- thanks for the laff. As if you would ever notice it. (How’s the ‘sharing and caring’ going BTW?)
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January 15, 2009 12:47pm
getstaffed

All religions are based on lies.

Ah, the mating call of the common atheist! You know… those who wittier on about religious folks being narrow minded.
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January 15, 2009 12:55pm
calendar girl

This turk needs to be sat down and have things explained to him that this is (apart from the fact that it is illegal) not the way we do things. Do not bring that conflict into this country, no matter how you might feel.

But you forget …. the Turk must have been taking his cue over the last week or so from John Minto. He’s clearly a NZer, presumably a respected one because the mighty MSM hang on his every word and action. If its OK for Minto to stick it to (or up) an Israeli, what problem is it for a new arrival like the Turk?
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January 15, 2009 1:11pm
MyNameIsJack

“Atheism not a religion?”

Where is its holy writ? Churches? Common mindset?
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January 15, 2009 1:11pm
MyNameIsJack

getstaffed (2675) 0 1 Says:

January 15th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
All religions are based on lies.

Ah, the mating call of the common atheist! You know… those who wittier on about religious folks being narrow minded.
>>>>>>>

As i said earlier, I am not an atheist.

However, if you disagree that all religions are based on lies, can you provide proof that all religions are based on fact?
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January 15, 2009 1:13pm
wikiriwhis business

Garth Georges article this morning…… absolute relevance to the irrelevant.

We got our own problems. National doesn’t want to know about Gaza…. hear, hear.

Relevance plse. We are socialist no longer!

Look in our own mirror and our own business.

Also, the new National Samoan MP had a great story to tell this morning in the Herald.

I could even put a tick next to David Bennett’s name next election!
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January 15, 2009 1:14pm
mickysavage

Good to see the forces of the right are focussing on the real issues, such as the actions of a Southland Cafe owner rather than such trivial things like the body count. By the way the latest report is that 1010 Palestinians have died as opposed to 13 Israelis …
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January 15, 2009 1:17pm
getstaffed

Jack, I did not assert that all religions are based on fact. You asserted that all religions are based on lies, so it behooves you to stump up the proof. Of course you can’t provide such proof.. which is ok because you’re entitled to hold that opinion.
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January 15, 2009 1:18pm
MyNameIsJack

getstaffed, it is easy to prove all religions are based on lies – there are no god(s); they were all invented by Man.
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January 15, 2009 1:20pm
wikiriwhis business

“NZ has to become a Republic, but more importantly it has to have a strongly written constitution,”

If a Republic means a constitution of the people and for the people then I am ready to move with the times.

One thing though Redbaiter,

You talk about fraudulent elections under the socialists but ignore the fraudulent ones that got Bush in.

Or Florida was completely innocent under Jeb BUSH ??
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January 15, 2009 1:21pm
Redbaiter

“Or Florida was completely innocent under Jeb BUSH ??”

Yes. That Bush or any of his family or anyone manipulated any election through vote fixing is just worthless commie crap. But that is not the context. The socialists are not perverting democracy by such obviously fraudulent means, they’re doing it by way of a silent slow and stealthy attack on our culture.
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January 15, 2009 1:31pm
getstaffed

Jack – that is opinion, not proof. back to school for you lad.

mickeysavage – great to see you weigh in with your pro-racism comments. not a good look for the left is it… supporting blatant racial prejudice. still, we’ve come to expect this kind of hypocrisy from those who yell down ‘the haters and the wreckers’.
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January 15, 2009 1:54pm
AG

“That Bush or any of his family or anyone manipulated any election through vote fixing is just worthless commie crap.”

Absolutely. Just left it to (the Republican) Katherine Harris. And the (Republican appointed) majority on the Supreme Court. No need to bloody your own hands when you’ve associates to do the work for you…

[DPF: Bush would have still been declared winner, if the Supreme Court had not over-turned the Florida Supreme Court, according to the AP count of the ballots – and also the key decision was passed 7-2]
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January 15, 2009 1:59pm
PhilBest

Redbaiter is right. Call it “Cultural Marxism” or “Neo-Marxism” or “The Long March Through The Institutions”; the totalitarian Left’s creeping takeover of Western society is REAL and is threatening our children’s future, if not our own.

Here is a reading list on the subject: (I won’t do “Links” as the system would not like it, Google should bring these up)

“Who Stole Our Culture”; “Dead But Not Gone”; and “What is Cultural Marxism?” by William S. LIND

“The Historical Roots of Political Correctness” by Raymond V. RAEHN

“Gramsci’s Grand Plan” by James THORNTON

“Gramsci: A Method To the Madness” by William Norman GRIGG

“What is the Frankfurt School” by Gerald L. ATKINSON

“Enthralled By Cultural Marxism” by Chuck MORSE

“Gramsci and the US Body Politic” by Alberto LUZARRAGA

“The Frankfurt School: Its History, Theories, and Political Significance” BOOK by Rolf Wiggershaus; REVIEW by David WEININGER

“Why There is a Culture War” by John FONTE

“Missing Diversity”; “Today’s Culture Wars”; and “Up From Multiculturalism” By David Horowitz

“The Ongoing Marxist March against The Western Mind” by Frank MORRISS

“What if you found out that bad stuff is happening on purpose?” By Charley REESE

“The New Left, Cultural Marxism, and Psychopolitics disguised as Multiculturalism” By Linda KIMBALL

“Political Correctness: The Revenge of Marxism” by “Fjordman”

And if you want to read an essay by a Leftist who instead of denying “The Long March” exists, which is what most of them do; actually presents it as a positive good (the bastard…!) try THIS one (and there are others)

“Cultural Marxism and Cultural Studies” By Douglas Kellner
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January 15, 2009 2:03pm
AG

That entire reading list is pretty pointless if, in fact, the political positions held by lecturers, etc have no impact on the thinking of their students.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/03/books/03infl.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

“An article of faith among conservative critics of American universities has been that liberal professors politically indoctrinate their students. This conviction not only fueled the culture wars but has also led state lawmakers to consider requiring colleges to submit reports to the government detailing their progress in ensuring “intellectual diversity,” prompted universities to establish faculty positions devoted to conservatism and spurred the creation of a network of volunteer watchdogs to monitor “political correctness” on campuses.

But a handful of new studies have found such worries to be overwrought. Three sets of researchers recently concluded that professors have virtually no impact on the political views and ideology of their students.

If there has been a conspiracy among liberal faculty members to influence students, “they’ve done a pretty bad job,” said A. Lee Fritschler, a professor of public policy at George Mason University and an author of the new book “Closed Minds? Politics and Ideology in American Universities” (Brookings Institution Press).

The notion that students are induced to move leftward “is a fantasy,” said Jeremy D. Mayer, another of the book’s authors. (Bruce L. R. Smith is the third co-author of the book.) When it comes to shaping a young person’s political views, “it is really hard to change the mind of anyone over 15,” said Mr. Mayer, who did extensive research on faculty and students.

“Parents and family are the most important influence,” followed by the news media and peers, he said. “Professors are among the least influential.”

A study of nearly 7,000 students at 38 institutions published in the current PS: Political Science and Politics, the journal of the American Political Science Association, as well as a second study that has been accepted by the journal to run in April 2009, both reach similar conclusions.

“There is no evidence that an instructor’s views instigate political change among students,” Matthew Woessner and April Kelly-Woessner, a husband-and-wife team of political scientists who have frequently conducted research on politics in higher education, write in that second study.

Their work is often cited by people on both sides of the debate, not least because Mr. Woessner describes himself as politically conservative.”

You can source the book itself at: http://www.brookings.edu/press/Books/2008/closedminds.aspx
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January 15, 2009 2:11pm
PhilBest

TimG_Oz (6) 2 0 Says:
January 15th, 2009 at 11:52 am

“…….You will find most of the extremists in any religion are converts, or take on the extremities in their formative teenage/early 20s years…….”

One of the main things I noticed in reading “Under The Shadow of Swords” by Sally Neighbour, a history of Jihad in the Australian context, was that Australia’s Muslims were very hard to radicalise so far as to commit to terrorism, much as certain Imams from the Middle East might have tried; but the people that DID line up for their murderous schemes were crackpot white Europeans with names like Reid and Thomas and Roche…….

But Tim, you are being a bit generous in equating Islam with all religions from which value is to be derived just as long as not taken to extremes; there is a very valid argument to be made for the fact as that so much violent extremism exists in Islam in comparison to the other religions, much of the fault for that is to be found in the very fundamentals of its writings and the example set by its founder. Compare the life of the mass-murderer Mohammed with that of Jesus Christ, for example……..
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January 15, 2009 2:13pm
PhilBest

Belated retort to MyNameIsJack on an earlier thread…….

# PhilBest (4080) 0 0 Says:
January 15th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

# MyNameIsJack (132) Vote: Add rating 4 Subtract rating24 Says:
January 14th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

“Ah yes, Don Brash – the man who nearly fell off the gangplank; the man who couldn’t sit in the driver’s seat of a car; the man who would have had us all beholden to the whims of the exclusive brethren. Yes, *HE* would be so much better. Maybe he could also teach us how long it takes to boil peas and how to keep a wife….”

What a twisted creep you are………guess what? If Don Brash HAD won the election in 2005, NZ would have had the only head of State in the world who actually saw the economic crash in the making and knew what to do about it…….
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January 15, 2009 2:27pm
TimG_Oz

Sorry Jack – I’m a bit of a newbie here so I didn’t realise you were a Moonbat. Anyway lets have a look at your argument:

There is a Conflict in the Middle East
– Religion plays a significant part in that conflict
– Religion cannot prove that God exists
– Therefore, New Zealand, should make religion illegal

I did actually study philosophy (101) at Massey University – I suggest your argument would receive a D- from Philosophy professors.

I guess like anything (baseball bats, bricks, computers), Religion can be used as a vehicle for Good or Evil. I’m not sure how much you have travelled out of New Zealand – but the relevance of formal religion at a societal level is actually pretty big.

Good luck with your Crusade to get Religion banned. You may have to kill a few people to get them to agree with you!
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January 15, 2009 3:13pm
TimG_Oz

PhilBest Said “But Tim, you are being a bit generous in equating Islam”

Possibly I am.

But you know what, I have hope, and faith in all people, and in the case of the middle east, I won’t stop believing that peace and tolerance amongst all people can be achieved.
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January 15, 2009 3:17pm
Sonny Blount

.
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January 15, 2009 5:10pm
Viking2

Consider these facts then and don’t be put off by the headline for it leads to the reason for the facts.

It’s our land…By: Benjamin Netanyahu

Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave an interview and was asked about Israel ‘s occupation of Arab lands. His response was “It’s our land”.

The reporter (CNN or the like) was stunned – read below “It’s our land…” It’s important information since we don’t get fair and accurate reporting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.

“Crash Course on the Arab Israeli Conflict..”
Here are overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation.

These were compiled by a Christian university professor:

BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY…

It takes just 1.5 minutes to read!!!!

It makes sense and it’s not slanted. Jew and non-Jew — it doesn’t matter.

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem . Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.
2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem , they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10 The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same number.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people’s lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel , a country no larger than the state of New Jersey .

13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO’s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel .. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel .

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel .

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives .

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

These are incredible times. We have to ask what our role should be. What will we tell our grandchildren about what we did when there was a turning point in Jewish destiny, an opportunity to make a difference?
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January 15, 2009 8:17pm
Jack5

Bush haters eat this:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/4241865/History-will-show-that-George-W-Bush-was-right.html
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January 15, 2009 9:30pm
big bruv

Have a look at this sycophantic crap, its enough to make you sick.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4819743a12.html

I suspect this the about the level of journalism we are going to see for the next four years now that Hussein Obama is in the white house.
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January 15, 2009 9:40pm
Banana Llama

I suspect this the about the level of journalism we are going to see for the next four years now that Hussein Obama is in the white house.

The level of Hysteria surrounding President Obama is completely out of control, anyone would think he is the second comming of Christ.
I hate to sound like a Nutter but revelations comes to mind.
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January 15, 2009 9:54pm
reid

Jack5, that ref contains the following quote:

The next factor that will be seen in its proper historical context in years to come will be the true reasons for invading Afghanistan in October 2001 and Iraq in April 2003.

I’m just finishing George Tenet’s “At the center of the storm.” As you know he was CIA Director during these years. He goes into great detail about the ways the Administration distorted the intelligence supplied by the CIA to draw a connection between Saddam and al-Qa’ida that was never there.

That was the cassus belli given by Bush for Iraq and the CIA itself saw absolutely no reliable evidence of any connection that justified that conflict. Don’t believe me? Read the book, this is what the man who briefed Bush 6 days a week said.

So for all those useful idiots who kept arguing that Iraq supported al-Qaida and that was why we went to war, you’re wrong, you always were wrong, some of us including myself said so at the time, read that book, and accept your mistake.

The Bush Administration for its own reasons decided to invade Iraq. Al-qa’ida connections did not exist. This is one of the reasons why in my view he’s the worst President in history. I knew it in 2002 and I’ve been saying it since. I’m glad the head of the CIA has backed me up, in respect of one of my reasons.
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January 15, 2009 10:04pm
Redbaiter

“Have a look at this sycophantic crap, its enough to make you sick.”

The complete corruption of the media has been one of the left’s most successful strategies. The mainstream media are today largely just politically partisan lying scum who have completely betrayed the craft of journalism. Their sycophantic support for Obama is much the same as the medias craven adoration of Adolf Hitler during his rise to power. If they were doing their job, they would be highly skeptical of every politician. Their unforgivable fawning over Obama was the last straw for many who now correctly regard them as utterly disreputable untrustworthy slime.
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January 15, 2009 10:06pm
Redbaiter

“I’m just finishing George Tenet’s “At the center of the storm.” As you know he was CIA Director during these years.”

..and since discredited as a complete fool.

“This is one of the reasons why in my view he’s the worst President in history.”

Keep sucking on that commie kool aid.
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January 15, 2009 10:08pm
dad4justice

New York Times QUOTATION OF THE DAY

“If re-engaging with foreign oil companies is necessary to his political survival, then Chávez will do it. He is a military man who understands losing a battle to win the war.”
ROGER TISSOT, an authority on Venezuela’s oil industry.

Haha – lefty’s don’t have real principles.
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January 15, 2009 10:11pm
Banana Llama

“I’m just finishing George Tenet’s “At the center of the storm.” As you know he was CIA Director during these years.”

..and since discredited as a complete fool.

Doesn’t look good for the American Government either way then, they either are incompetent fools or hire incompetent fools.
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January 15, 2009 10:13pm
reid

..and since discredited as a complete fool.

Details please, Redbaiter. You’re not talking about “slam-dunk” are you? Please say you are, I’d love to quote you what he says about that.

Edit: Not that complete fools ever get into the CIA anyway, let alone reach the top. Let’s be serious.
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January 15, 2009 10:17pm
reid

Keep sucking on that commie kool aid.

See this is what I don’t get, RB. It should be obvious to anyone with eyes that both sides of US politics have done bad things to the American Republic for a long time. It’s not a left or right issue. If you think it is then crikey.

In your media comment where you said:

“If they were doing their job, they would be highly skeptical of every politician.”

you touch on the truth. Some people continually go on about leftist media, ignoring conservative media, as if it doesn’t have the same traits. You can see precisely the same dynamics with politicians. In specific countries, namely Israel and the US, both sides consistently act against the best interests of their own nations. It’s quite obvious, if you take an objective view.
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January 15, 2009 10:32pm
Redbaiter

Tenet presided over the largest, most deadly intelligence failure in US History on 9/11. He then went on to totally fuck up the intelligence on Iraq. Then, to escape blame for his incompetency, he did what all Democrats do. He blamed Republicans in a book. All the while knowing the dishonest, disgraceful Bush hating media in the US would give him very assistance. The guy is a total POS, and if you don’t know Reid of the many exposes of this dickwad’s lies and incompetence, then you should read a bit wider, especially a bit wider than those left wing nut job websites you seem to be so obsessed with.
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January 15, 2009 10:33pm
Redbaiter

“See this is what I don’t get, RB. It should be obvious to anyone with eyes that both sides of US politics have done bad things to the American Republic for a long time.”

..and you’ve improved that situation by propagating the lies and propaganda of the Bush hating power obsessed left who have used the Iraq war and the lives of US soldiers as a stepping stone to power??

Get real. The hate Bush anti Iraq war syndrome was nothing more than a fraud perpetrated on the world by the power driven left, the Pelosis, the Reids, the Rosie O’Donnels, the Keith Obermanns, and the rest of their completely corrupt media acolytes and fellow travellers, the same liars and charlatans who engineered Obama’s rise to power, and if you think any improvement will come in the US because these scum now hold sway in the White house you must be living on a fucken planet a long way from the one I dwell on. Try this-

http://www.aim.org/guest-column/welcome-to-the-united-states-of-make-believe/

Comforting right?
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January 15, 2009 10:47pm
billyborker

PhilBest (4081) Vote: 2 0 Says:

January 15th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Belated retort to MyNameIsJack on an earlier thread…….

# PhilBest (4080) 0 0 Says:
January 15th, 2009 at 2:22 pm

# MyNameIsJack (132) Vote: Add rating 4 Subtract rating24 Says:
January 14th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

“Ah yes, Don Brash – the man who nearly fell off the gangplank; the man who couldn’t sit in the driver’s seat of a car; the man who would have had us all beholden to the whims of the exclusive brethren. Yes, *HE* would be so much better. Maybe he could also teach us how long it takes to boil peas and how to keep a wife….”

What a twisted creep you are………guess what? If Don Brash HAD won the election in 2005, NZ would have had the only head of State in the world who actually saw the economic crash in the making and knew what to do about it…….

Phil, mI don’t know what planet you are from, but Don BVrash would never have been Head of Sate in NZ; that is HRH QE2, represented by her Governor-General. Get your facts right.
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January 15, 2009 10:48pm
reid

Re: your 10:33 What a load of crap, RB, with all due respect.

The CIA and let’s be clear here, it’s not Tenet we’re talking about but the CIA, did miss vital 911 connections, along with other US intelligence agencies. However they had identified and had been monitoring al-Qaida activity for many years. That’s precisely why Bush announced within days who did 911.

Then, to escape blame for his incompetency, he did what all Democrats do. He blamed Republicans in a book.

No, he doesn’t, actually, but you’d need to read it since I guess I can’t serialise it here. The “many exposes” you’re referring to is a very nebulous concept there RB. Perhaps YOU should read a little wider and see what he actually says.
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January 15, 2009 10:54pm
reid

these scum now hold sway in the White house

Read my comment again, RB. I’m not for either side, thought you might have picked that up by now. I haven’t got a lefty bone in my body, in fact, I’d say I’m more conservative than most people on this blog. I just don’t accept bullshit, from anyone. And there’s a lot of it that idiots get taken in by.

Re: your quote above, the neo-cons are going to take a lot of beating, scum-wise. Who knows. Obama might turn out to be scum, his appointees may also turn out to be scum. One things for sure though, the neo-cons definitely are, proven over time, scum.
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January 15, 2009 11:01pm
Redbaiter

“in fact, I’d say I’m more conservative than most people on this blog.”

Well, don’t you ever think about the fact that in your contempt for Bush and your abasement of the mission to bring democracy to Iraq you’re in bed with the most radical of the radical left that are out there. Harry Reid, Pelosi, Al Franken, Code Pink, every damn communist/ progressive slimebag currently polluting political discourse in the western world with words that drip with contempt for freedom and democracy and the American Republic???

You identify yourself as a Conservative and yet you are a constant ally of these lying sneaking slimy power obsessed communists who would abandon the US Constitution and the restraints of Republicanism in an instant if they thought they could get away with it.

It staggers me that you, if you’re truly the Conservative you claim, cannot ask yourself the question- “What ever am I doing in the same camp as these repugnant people???”
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January 15, 2009 11:14pm
reid

A conservative in my view is someone who wants to conserve things, RB. That’s why people as they get older get more conservative since they have more to conserve.

I don’t really give a flying fuck if my opinions happen to coincide with anyone, be they left, right, blue or purple. I wouldn’t be surprised nor object to the possibility that if Hitler or Stalin were alive they might hold some opinions that coincided with mine. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of my opinions similarly coincided with Mandela, Aung Sang Syu Ki or the Dalai Lama.

At no point do I care and consider myself neither tainted nor sainted by any such coincidence.

Re: being an ally of evil, I see both Republicans and Democrats abandoning the constitution and both greatly distress me, not so much that they do it for I expect that of the venal bastards, but because of the fact that for most people, it passes them by while they look at other things which range from crap on TV to being fooled by the propaganda symphony that’s been designed specifically for them so they ignore what’s really happening. Gaza was the latest example of the latter.

I call bullshit when I see it and that’s why I continually criticise Key as well as Hulun. I know there are many things I don’t see and I also know there are many opinions I hold that aren’t based on correct facts. However I consider my approach to be the best possible way to sort the wheat from the chaff since to do so you need first to be objective and if you’re subjectively in one camp or the other, how can you possibly do that?
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January 15, 2009 11:36pm
Redbaiter

“if you’re subjectively in one camp or the other, how can you possibly do that?”

What the fuck is declaring yourself to be a Conservative if it is not placing yourself in one camp??? A Conservative does not just conserve things per se. He advocates for the Conservation of certain political ideas, and you cannot subscribe to those ideas at the same time as you declare yourself to be an ideological follower of people like Obama, (who sat there silently Sunday after Sunday after Sunday while his preacher damned and defiled his country), Franken, Pelosi, Reid, Mandela, (a communist terrorist) Aung Sang Syu ki, (who while I do not agree with her arrest in Burma, is still another pro communist useful idiot,) or the peacenik Dalai Lama whose weak and confused ideas have allowed his people and his beliefs to be exterminated by the Chinese communists. Until you get your head straight on what it is that Conservatives stand for, (or what precisely they want to conserve) you’re just going to keep cutting the ground away under your own feet.
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January 16, 2009 12:07am
reid

RB, you’re an idealogue conservative, I’m not. I’m a values-based conservative. The reason I’m not an idealogue is because personally, it would skew my thinking, leading me to consciously or subconsciously accept or reject concepts depending on whether I agree with them or not.

I decided to consciously eschew the idealogue approach long ago since it didn’t help get to the truth. A detective can’t get to the truth if they first decide who’s guilty then make the facts fit the case. Neither can an intelligence analyst. Same with me.
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January 16, 2009 6:50am
Redbaiter

“RB, you’re an idealogue conservative, I’m not. I’m a values-based conservative.”

Ideologue?? Values based?? Pfffft- what vain self serving rubbish. I’m a Conservative, straight up and I say so with out any fancy and convenient sub categorising. Bite the bullet Reid. You’re not any kind of conservative when you lie down with the people you lie down with.
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January 16, 2009 8:11am
jackp

DPF: Bush would have still been declared winner, if the Supreme Court had not over-turned the Florida Supreme Court, according to the AP count of the ballots – and also the key decision was passed 7-2]

No one will truly ever know. The ballots were confusing and were never truly counted. I agree with AG. If Katherine Harris didn’t send those “felony” letters out, Gore would have been the winner. There needed to be another count and it was blocked by the Supreme Court which were pals with Bush Sr. Bush should be tried for war crimes, but that is another story.
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January 16, 2009 11:46pm

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