Racism in Invercargill
January 15th, 2009 at 1:00 pm by David FarrarTwo women were shocked after being kicked out of an Invercargill cafe yesterday because they come from Israel.
Sisters Natalie Bennie and Tamara Shefa were upset after being booted out of the Mevlana Cafe in Esk St by owner Mustafa Tekinkaya.
They chose to eat at Mevlana Cafe because it had a play area for Mrs Bennie’s two children, but they were told to leave before they had ordered any food, Mrs Bennie said.
“He heard us speaking Hebrew and he asked us where we were from. I said Israel and he said `get out, I am not serving you’. It was shocking.”
Mr Tekinkaya, who is Muslim and from Turkey, said he was making his own protest against Israel because it was killing innocent babies and women in the Gaza Strip.
“I have decided as a protest not to serve Israelis until the war stops.”
He said he had nothing against Israeli people but if any more came into his shop they would also be told to leave, and he was not concerned if he lost business.
I wonder if he would refuse to serve Israeli Arabs?
I wonder how he would like it if a shop refused to serve Turks until Turkey apologises for the Armenian genocide (or even accepts ot happened) or if after 9/11 a shop refused to serve Muslims because the 9/11 hijackers were Muslim?
It is absolutely legitimate to protest against the Israeli Government if you disagree with what they do. But it is quite wrong to target individual citizens.
January 15th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Disgusting. Can you imagine the furor of this were a white cafe owner refusing to serve local Maori in Wanganui!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Well well. Religious discrimination. Get down there and fix it you damn poncing bureaucrats.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
And I bet the Race Relations Conciliator will be on the job immediately.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I can see their point when Israel has massacred over 300 children in the last 3 weeks.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
I strongly disagree with the cafe owner’s view. But I’ll go to the grave defending his right to believe what he wants, to express it, and to exclude people from entering his premises for whatever reason he chooses.
That is called freedom of expression and private property. Both extraordinarily valuable concepts and inextricable from the rights to offend and to disagree.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
The guy is a moron – I hope he goes broke. Of course he has a right to do it, but the rest of us have a right to send him broke.
I wonder if (as someone says above) the race relations lot get off their arse check it out. If not then its all on for one and all to discriminate. I dont agree with that office, but theyre there and Im payinmg for them.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
I can see the point of not allowing Arabs since they deliberately mascare Jewish children whenever they cget the chance he man you missnamed anti-Semitic peice of shit.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Getstaffed,,
What more can we say???
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
Also, I think you’re a little too quick to call this racism. Isn’t it possible that the cafe owner has nothing against Israelis per se but is simply enraged by their government’s actions? He was probably kicking Americans out five years ago for invading Iraq.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
Mr Farrar – I’m amazed it took you so long to post this one – I was expecting it first thing this morning – you’re slipping!
Vote:This is easy to solve. Send in Eric Roy, it’s his patch. Can’t have people expressing their heartfelt concerns like this, can we! Eric, despite having voted to ban smacking, will give this uppity Turk a good slapping, for sure!
January 15th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Imagine if he was a Jew banning Arabs
John Minto would be down there in a shot urging Tim Shadbolt to join him!
I say civil war for equal rights to discriminate.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
Radio Live, Mike Laws was covering this situation this morning. A Lybian muslim from Christchurch who has lived in NZ for 20 years rang and said what the Turk did was perfectly OK. Mike Laws told him to go home. I’m with Mike Laws on this, when they come to this country they can leave their age old prejudices at the point of departure. I hope the Turk goes broke or better still fucks off entirely to where he came from.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Greenfly,
>>Can’t have people expressing their heartfelt concerns like this
Look forward to you Greenies supporting the rights of white shop owners to not serve Maori on the basis of their “heartfelt concerns” about Maori radicals.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Well hullo Mr Tekinkaya. Tell us what the Turks are doing to the Kurds?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
How long does it have to take, and how many things have to happen, before NZ-ers and other Westerners wake up to the overwhelmingly one-way nature of “discrimination” everywhere where the religion beginning with “I” and ending with “slam”, is involved? Good on Michael Laws, too.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
For anyone interested, the Race Relations Conciliator has condemned the cafe owner’s actions and labeled then unlawful:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4818871a11.html
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
If only you lot felt this strongly about the collective punishment of civilians in Gaza.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
It makes no logical sense. Should he ban Afghanis because they supported Al-Qaeda? Should he ban Uzbekistani’s for their acts of repression? Should be ban Somali’s because of their acts of piracy? Should he ban cigarette salesmen for causing cancer?
The only way to make sense of it, logically, is that he is not anti-violence or harm, but simply anti-Israeli. This is just a smokescreen to legitimize prejudice.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I wonder how the local skinheads will react. They may not like Jews but I bet they hate rag-heads a hell of a lot more. I hope he has insurance.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Western liberal cringe is alive and well. We should condemn prejudice in any form from any group against another. To accept the Turk’s reasoning is tantamount to accepting nazisim and the worst of it’s antisemetic ways. The Cafe owner deserves a bouycott from his customers.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I agree with DPF entirely and Pete. Individual Civilians should not be targeted.
By the way the latest report is that 1010 Palestinians have died as opposed to 13 Israelis. Talking about civilian targeting …
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
“If only you lot felt this strongly about the collective punishment of civilians in Gaza” .
……the civilians in Gaza voted a terrorist organisation into government, allowed them to carry on barbaric terrorists acts, and wonder why they have a shit fight going on?
I dont condone innocent civillians getting killed – on either side, but this is war….. and hamas chose the battle ground
Vote:
January 15th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Realistically, This has squat to do with Gaza and everything to do with racial and religious bigotry. It is 100% hyporcritical for a turkish immigrant to hold an israeli immigrant to task for the actions of a government.
Its discrimination plain and simple, discrimination which has no place in THIS country.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
Given what’s happening in Gaza, you could say the same about Israeli voters.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
Murray M,
Will it bring solution? I think not. To import (more) violence here doesn’t solv the problem.
Cafe owner asshole did not take stand, he was controlled by his religion. Bad business decision let him take the risk. (like the stupid shoethrower)
If chch people never go to this cafe again, this is sign for him. If he was unlawful (I hardly believe he was) now comes the law.
Not to mention the last hundred years of the kurd people. What if a kurd guy wants to ask something from him?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
It is precisely this sort of stupid and baseless intolerance that has led to the ongoing situation in the Middle East now. Tell this Cafe Owner to get with the programme and realise he is in New Zealand now, where this is just not kosher! (pun intended!)
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
“Given what’s happening in Gaza, you could say the same about Israeli voters”
But I don’t see the IDF firing rockets from behind the skirts of innocent Israeli women and children, and using them as human shields.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
The Turkish cafe Owner should harden up! You don’t hear Eric Roy blubbering and snivelling over the deaths of Palestinian babies, now do you! Mr Cafe Owner should keep his feelings to himself, just like the tolerant Kiwiblog regulars do.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:30 pm
Mustafa Tekinkaya is a hateful racist, an anti-semetic bigot.
He will gather a groundswell of support from like-minded New Zealanders.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
pappito
“If chch people never go to this cafe again, this is sign for him. ”
Given the cafe is in Invercargill, this might not be a very effective response …
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:32 pm
Funny how the usual suspects didn’t give a crap last week when Hamas as the government of Palestine was targeting children.
Of course they were only Jewish children so its all good.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
AG, oargh… sorry about it, i am reading another article also, I mixed.
thanks
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
NZ does not need any immigrants dragging their wars here. In short, they can fuck off, not welcome, not wanted, don’t need your cash, your skills, nothing – stay in your homeland.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I heard the dickhead from the HRC. The way the system works is that there is going to be huge talk feast at great expense. The result after a long time might mean a forced apology and the owner agreeing not to repeat his actions. By then the Israel will have pulled out of Gaza and there will be new cease fire. The café owner will have by then accomplished what he set out to – gain publicity.
We should get rid of the useless HRC and have this sort of discrimination covered by the Crimes Act. If that were the case the café owner would be found guilty by his own admission and fined daily till he changed his mind or the café closed.
I know there will be ideologues who think this sort of discrimination should be legal. However, if this were allowed to be widespread someone who does not like blacks Maoris or possibly Muslims could ban them from their business. This would not be a good look for New Zealand overseas.
If John Key wants to comment and undermine a small business owner he should target this racist who wishes to bring his prejudice to New Zealand rather than the rental car owner who acted unwisely.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
I think, everything will be fine, if somebody put a “racist owners, avoid area” tag to the pavement right to the front of the cafe’s door…
Or a kiwi owner kiks out this guy from kiwi shop and say go home? What will kiwi have to face after it?
it is so sad.
senzafine:
“t is 100% hyporcritical for a turkish immigrant to hold an israeli immigrant to task for the actions of a government.
Its discrimination plain and simple, discrimination which has no place in THIS country.”
thank you for this words!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Why the hell are we bringing more and more of these people into our country? Isn’t the European experience of muslims in western countries enough of a warning? obviously not……..
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Decision to stop use of “human shields” welcomed but unfortunately five years on the IDF probes soldiers’ use of Palestinian human shields
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Redbaiter, ben and a handful of others making the point that it’s the owner’s business and he can do what he likes, however reprehensible… but mostly positive karma for people condemning this action.
But wasn’t the “it’s his business, he can do what he likes” argument also offered in defence of the heartless rental car company owner yesterday? A position that seemed to find wide agreement here? There seems to be a bit of an inconsistency in some people’s line of thinking…
For the record, I think the public is wise enough to decide what to do with rental car companies who can’t see past greed (yes, I know he’s backed down after being embarrassed in both NZ and Australia) and cafe owners who take out their ugly prejudices on individual customers. We don’t need conciliators, inspectors or crisis counsellors rushing there and wringing their hands or issuing purse-lipped media statements.
However if we must have statutory penalities to impose on Mr Tekinkaya, might I suggest he be required to place a nicely designed sign in his window clearly stating his position on the issues of the day, so passing potential customers can choose whether to give him their coin? Something like “Nein Juden” ought to suffice.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
A child killed in a war is a tragedy, epecially when the government of your country commits a war crime by placing weapons and making attacks against it’s neighbour whilst surrounding themselves with civillians. Israeli human shields are their soldiers. Arab human shields are their children.
A massacre is when someone smashes a four year old girl’s head open with a rifle butt like Palestinian hero Samil Kuntar did and who Hamas, Fatah, the Syrians, Hizbollah and every other Arab state have lauded as a hero.
You hamashole-philes have the most screwed up moral compass I have ever seen.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
He wouldn’t let two in, what makes you think nine will get served? (:-)
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Why are we letting in people like this in the first place?
Its all well and good for idiot Locke to say we should take in more refugees but these are the type of problems that go with unrestricted immigration.
The time has come for us to put an immediate halt to Muslim immigration in particular until they learn to leave their bigoted and racist attitudes behind.
We have more than enough problems with racist Maori without importing any more people with that mindset.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Those are two different questions. Turks get to vote on who their government is and can therefore influence whether or not it apologises, whereas Muslims do not get to vote on what other Muslims do. This instance is more analogous to the former than the latter.
The question, then, is whether or not citizens of democracies bear any responsibility for the actions of their governments and, if so, are they responsible to such a degree that a ban like this is warranted?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
There is clear precedent on this one. It reminds me of the bar on Queens St that would not sever Pacific Islanders.
On the other Mustafa has been punished a lot already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm3vsvR_zJM
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
The Human Rights Commission has condemned the ban – it is illegal in New Zealand.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0901/S00089.htm
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
> Imagine if he was a Jew banning Arabs.
Well, that would make a change from killing them.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
> But I don’t see the IDF firing rockets from behind the skirts of innocent Israeli women and children, and using them as human shields.
No, they do things the hi-tech way, obtaining coordinates for the nearest school and shelling it, thus maximising the kill. And for that they get your support. Nice.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
ROSS – you are a fucking moron. If there are enemy fighters operating from that school it IS a target. The fault is the fighters, not the person shooting at them. What part of human shield don’t you understand?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Brian – I think Ross is saying that it takes a certain kind of asshole to realise that there are school children in the crosshairs, and still pull the trigger anyway!
PS: (back on topic) a lot of people emigrate here to get away from the world’s problems and live in paradise. It is appalling that people are bringing ugly fights from the other side of the world here, and holding each other to account for the deeds of foreign governments.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:19 pm
An asshole sick of being shelled haphazardly by rockets that go uncondemned around the world, perhaps?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:21 pm
It takes an even bigger kind of asshole to PUT those kids in the crosshairs. ESPECIALLY when they know their opponents are trigger happy.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Well this is how the IDF do it.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Y’know this Race relations Commission is a load of bullshit. When I wrote to them and complained of pro Maori anti European discrimination I was told that they were only there to police discrimination against minorities, and it was not their brief to intervene otherwise. Liars.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
What surprises me most is that there were muslims in Invercargil. I mean who knew?
As for unequal casaulties, 18 yanks killed 1000 somalis in ONE DAY of street fighting in Mogadishu. That the Israelis have only now equalled this indicates they are either incompetent or careful.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
I am amazed at the majority of the responses.
Whether it is good business practrise or not is irrelevant to the priciple of property rights.
What happened to “freedom of choice?” It is HIS cafe not a government cafe.
If commenters believe it is right that the shop owner be forced to serve {whoever the government says} then you will have no problem when the government decrees that YOU must carpool “these beneficiaries” or billet “these prisioners” as they are reintergrated to society.
Yes the examples sound absurd now, but if you do not stand for property rights now and defend the shop owner, then it will be YOUR property that the government will confiscate next!
Lawrence
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
I gotta say I was surprised. I thought the usual cafe/restaurant response was to whizz in their coffee….
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
National MP for Invercargill Eric Roy must say something about this! It’s his turf. Surely he’s not just going to stand by twiddling his thumbs as cafe owners decide who they will and won’t serve! Stand up and be counted Mr Roy! Now is your chance to redeem yourself for voting to make smacking illegal.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
If this is a big crime, then the New Zealand governement is equally guilty, for example:
1) Refusing visas for the impoverished and under resourced Zimbabwe Cricket team from touring. Yes Mugabe is a cunt, but lets not shit on the innocent people from Zimbabwe who are trying to have some form of normality in the face of economic ruin.
2) Refusing visas for Fijian sports teams. Again the Commander is a deluded arsehole, but lets not pin that on Fijians at large. Even tough politics in Fiji is a mess, the economy there is not a total basket case as above.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
He IS free to serve who he wants to, and to bar those whom he dosent want to. However to do so based on Race is not only discriminitory and bigoted, its also illegal. For good reason.
Allowing business owners to discriminate on race would serve just once purpose: Engender us toward apartheid. Something which has proven to be a BIG failure elsewhere.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
greenfly – do you have to practice hard at being a jerk, or does it come naturally?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
OK. If the race concilator says its unlawful but doesnt do anything about it (Charge the perp with an offence) does this mean that even though there has been a change of government the application of the law is still random as it was under the last administration?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
As a side issue, having travelled through Asian countries, many businesses refuse service to Israelis. This is not because of their race or religion, but because of their difficult behaviour! That said, I have not heard of problems with Israelis in NZ, however refusing service because of political difference between 2 parties when in a 3rd country is wrong.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Yep definitely discriminatory. I don’t agree with the IDF’s methods and a lot of its actions, but tourists (especially these 2 it seems) don’t necessarily represent ones country and it’s actions/policies. The cafe owner should have instead talked to them about Gaza since they feel so strongly about it… I am sure the cafe owner and the tourists could have learned a lot from each other…
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
“Well this is how the IDF do it.”
against stone throwing FFS – I thought you lefties were telling us stone throwing was harmless?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
So if people were ejected from, or had access restricted, in a physical region such as the Ureweras because of their race we would all be concerned and the race relations people would get involved ?????????
Double standards eh…
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
Funny how the usual suspects didn’t give a crap last week when Hamas as the government of Palestine was targeting children. Of course they were only Jewish children so its all good.
I am sorry that you have forgotten a thousand children murdered by the Israeli invaders.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
God isn’t this interweb thingy clever or what?
David posts mentioning a muslim and up comes “Muslim Women available” website ads. I think you might be on to a money spinner here David – just get everyone clicking away on the link and you will be able to retire on all those petrodollars that will flood in.( I presume you get paid per click thru)
http://www.muslima.com/?ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=English+New+Zealand+Content+Muslim+Centers&ovcrn=image+ad&ovtac=PPC&gclid=CLuVwbHJj5gCFQIvgwodJ2YElQ
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
“I am sorry that you have forgotten a thousand children murdered by the Israeli invaders.” and according to your mate spoff they were all killed by israeli sniper fire – yeah right
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
Anyone want to address my question rather than just clicking the pretty little red button?
Are citizens of a representative democratic country responsible to any degree for the actions of their government?
Note: I’m not defending the guy banning people from his cafe on the basis of their nationality, just asking a question raised by the incident.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:11 pm
Because I’m white (well I look white and that’s all that matters…) I can have my access on a public road blocked in the Ureweras and nobody bats an eye lid… It’s just the way it is eh…
Yet a couple of people need to go to a different cafe and the media are all over it…
Racism is really only apparent when we are not so socially conditioned to it that we ignore (even expect) it.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Are citizens of a representative democratic country responsible to any degree for the actions of their government?
No because what we have here isn’t even close to a true democratic format and i am guessing for Israel it is the same, even if the civilians wanted to stop the war the government would not listen to them and carry on with it’s agenda regardless, now i can agree that some of the blame lays with the population of Israel but i find it very difficult to lay it all at there feet when they are hardly given a say in anything.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
“He IS free to serve who he wants to, and to bar those whom he dosent want to. However to do so based on Race is not only discriminitory and bigoted, its also illegal. For good reason.’
No it isn’t. Discriminating by race is as valid and as discriminating for any other reason.If you don’t want blacks,whites,stripes etc on your property than that IS your right.Its called the right to liberty and to property….the right to be free of others who you do not want to associate with for WHATEVER reason.Its the law that is wrong and that should be amended.Its violating genuine rights to implement false ones.
The HRC is an invalid organisation and should be disbanded..its a PC wank fest and needs eliminating.
“Allowing business owners to discriminate on race would serve just once purpose: Engender us toward apartheid. Something which has proven to be a BIG failure else”
Absolutely wrong…Apartheid was enforced on people by the STATE…..much like the HRC.It removed the right to choose and to freely associate…the exact opposite of what the cafe owner is rightly claiming to want to do no matter how misguided his motives may seem.A free society protects the peoples right to be WRONG,to make bad choices and bigoted decisions…and to suffer the consequences when the reast of us in turn decide maybe we won’t trade with him or associate with him because of that….its the free market in action.
If you belive the cafe owner should be prosecuted for his actions then fuck over to Labour and the left…thats where your facisim belongs..
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
And I’m sorry i am on the Arabs side, we tolerate all types of racist separatists amongst us why shouldn’t we cut the racist Arabs some slack as well.
Vote:I guess just justice for some.
January 15th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
You’re talking a bit like an anarchist.
One Israeli couldn’t stop the Israeli government, just as one Kiwi couldn’t stop the Kiwi government. But enough Kiwis could. Does that mean there is some diluted responsibility individually? Or some kind of communal responsibility that doesn’t translate into individual responsibility?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
“Are citizens of a representative democratic country responsible to any degree for the actions of their government?”
Did germany know what Hitler was going to do when they elected him -nope, did the German citizens pay for his actions – yep
dont forget Hamas won by a landslide, and any terrorist action Hamas has undertaken since elected should be no surprise to the citizens. They have always been a terrorist organisation, and recognised as such by many governments in the world.
They knew what they were getting
Ryan – I cant see where the Human Rights Commission has ‘condemned’ the ban?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Communal responsibility, and what i mean by true democracy is the way the political system works in the west is we are presented candidates by a political partys and asked to vote for them, if we voted in say the Communist party under the promise they would centralize society and they turned around and structured society towards full blown capitalism are we at fault?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Has Israel reached the point where popular opposition to the government’s actions would be met with the equivalent of the Gestapo?
Did Israeli citizens know what they were getting when they voted for this government? What I’m asking here is how fair is it to see an Israeli citizen as responsible to some degree for the Israeli government’s actions.
They say it’s a breach of the Human Rights Act and is illegal. Condemn was just the first word that came to mind, possibly because the word “commend” is used at the end of the article, in reference to the Peace Foundation’s vigil.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Talking about a democratic country. Israel is the only one in the middle east and so it is the target of the likes of Minto and Locke. Have you noticed that they only target democracy’s? Never dictatorships or those run by the military? For example I have not heard their out cry or protest over Burma, Sudan, Zimbabee, Congo, Arche, Chechyna etc. I never saw them out in protest over the killings in Croatia.
But democracies? Hey they are a good target as they now they dont have a hope in help of being heard in a dictatorship etc. Or it may be that they prefer a dictatorship of one kind or an other (Individual, Communist, Military) because they might have a hope in hell of being IN CHARGE.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Jimmy- you’re right of course, but its amusing to witness the squirming of those left liberals who would otherwise be screaming blue murder.
The Race Relations Commission is a barbaric embarrassment, and would not exist for one nanosecond if this country had not descended into a degenerate leftist sewer. Again in a civilized country, the cafe owner would be free to serve or not serve whosoever he chooses. But this is not a civilized country. It is a nation fast sinking into the vulgar coarse and savage state of leftist/ big government totalitarianism.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
“Did Israeli citizens know what they were getting when they voted for this government? What I’m asking here is how fair is it to see an Israeli citizen as responsible to some degree for the Israeli government’s actions”
I would say they expected the govt to defend them.
If the Urewera mob had been a lot bigger and better organised and started firing rockets indiscriminately into NZ suburbs what would you expect the NZ Govt to do?
a. Ignore them?
Vote:b. ask them politely to stop?
c. Fly the herc over as a show of strength?
d. Send in armed police/troops – using whatever force it takes?
e. Let them fly their flag on the top of the harbour bridge?
January 15th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
The Israeli women went to the media presumably…they didn’t simply go down the road for a burger instead, because…??? their hurt was greater than his, I suppose…? no falafel .v. empathy for children dying??
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
e. Let them fly their flag on the top of the harbour bridge, for $1000, a rental car and a falafel.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Talking about a democratic country. Israel is the only one in the middle east and so it is the target of the likes of Minto and Locke. Have you noticed that they only target democracy’s?….
They hate us because of democracy, freedom and women’s rights….. yeah right!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
f. Negotiate with the not-firing-rockets moderates. Allow the moderates to win concessions, which strengthens the moderate faction at the expense of the terrorist faction.
Note that there are 16 dead Israelis during this military action, compared to 0 in the preceding attacks.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
If a turkman throw me out of his fly cemetery due to the fact the turkman thought my wife had been involved in the last crusade and hated the sound of the New Zealand speech, i would take the ignorant raghead to the useless human rights commissoner, only to be fobbed of
WATCH this space the jews are out the door and down the road with their complaint, there will be a bit of noise from THAT govt dept but fuck all will happen, i could bet on it. MUSLIMS RULE
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
Patrick,
I’m not asking whether or not Israel has reacted correctly. I’m asking how responsible an Israeli citizen is for the actions of their elected government. That can include being worthy of praise as well as guilt.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Ryan
Vote:That’s why I’m asking you how you would expect a govt to react in similar circumstances?
January 15th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Banana Llama – you caught the bug huh?
trust Mrs Llama is feeling better?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that the Southland cafe owner believes there were available alternatives to killing hundreds of innocent children.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Lucy, Turkey is a democracy.
Vote:Well I guess the Israeli government will be that upset that they will attack Turkey now.
Hmm, maybe not, even the ANZACs came second in a scrap against the Turks at Gallipoli, so an Arab army like the IDF would have no chance against them.
Hmm, I do not remember people being upset when a kiwi who was a Jew decided it was a good idea to commit an act of treason against NZ.
Funny that, one does not see Muslim immigrants being traitors to NZ.
Yet we are supposed to give a NZ Jew a pass when he commits a crime that used to bring the hemp rope stretch.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Do you mean like how the Turks treat the Kurds?
my quetion remains; how would you expect a govt to react if it were you under rocket fire?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
How would you expect a govt to react if it were you under rocket fire?
Take a page out of the Russian book in how they dealt too Georgia, 3 days was all it took, they couldn’t even get reporters there fast enough to start the criticism.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:26 pm
Patrick,
I don’t want to go off on tangents. How is that related to the question of whether or not citizens of liberal democracies are responsible for the actions of their governments?
Are you saying that there was no other way the government could act, therefore there is no question of blame for either the government or its citizens?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
HORI i see some of the bro were arrested and are in front of the courts on terrorism charges, naughty bro,
ps a thought 
a little bro child 3 i think has been running around a city today picked up by the police (as they are) and NO ONE HAS NOTICED SHES MISSING bro( just thought i would post that),um i would think a pakeha family would notice a missing child ,hori
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Lucy, Turkey is a democracy.
Not really. The state has a secular ideology imposed by the Army which mounts coups if the governments get too religious.
Hmm, maybe not, even the ANZACs came second in a scrap against the Turks at Gallipoli, so an Arab army like the IDF would have no chance against them
An opposed landing in which the defenders lost more than the invaders (by a ratio of 5:4) is not good evidence that the Turks are tough!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Ryan
I’m saying a few things, First I don’t think anyone from Turkey should be sitting in judgement when it comes to the rights and wrongs of situations like these. – particularly not in NZ (he should fuck off)
Secondly I’m saying there is a degree of citizen responsibility, if they knew what they voted for (Hamas = terrorist, what else was probable?)
Thirdly I’m saying it is no easy task tracking down and stopping terrorists when they choose to hide amongst a civilian population. How can the citizens of Israel be held responsible for that?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
I’d go to the media if I was kicked out of a cafe for having brown eyes. You’d go to the media if you were similarly treated for wearing a “Remember the Greens” badge. They went to the media beacuse they were racially discriminated against. Simple. Like you, apparently.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:51 pm
95% of all governments would use whatever means necessary to quell such attacks. The remaining 5% wouldn’t have the means and are ousted.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Hopefully these stores get fined and also the locals just don’t go there.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
getstaffed – you are a very sensitive soul! I’d not bother going to the media over something so trivial. I’d be very interested though, to know why a cafe owner would feel so strongly about whatever it was that he booted me out for. It would have to be something he really felt strongly about. There are not many people who would risk their business/reputation/community standing over a triviality. I probably wouldn’t react by ‘jerking my knee’ as so many here have. As to your ‘simple’ lable – thanks!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Beyond the question of whether it’s “right” to blame citizens for their nation’s actions, there’s the question of whether it’s fair to.
So you tell two Israeli women in Invershithole that they can’t come into your cafe until their government changes its behaviour. What are you really asking for? Do you think they could go home and knock on the President’s door, convince him of the error of his ways, and stop the invasion? Really? I doubt it. So what is achieved? The shop owner gets to feel like a bigger man for a moment. That’s all. The guy is an idiot.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
I don’t know enough about this guy’s views on his ex-country’s actions to comment.
And do you think that Operation Cast Lead was a predictable consequence of voting for Kadima? And you’re also saying that anyone who voted against the ruling party is not responsible at all for the ruling party’s actions. Makes sense.
Like I said, for the purposes of argument, let’s assume that the cafe owner believes there were alternatives to Operation Cast Lead that were more moral.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
“It would have to be something he really felt strongly about. ” Like just a muslim jew hater perhaps?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
# Patrick Starr (1356) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
January 15th, 2009 at 5:13 pm
Banana Llama – you caught the bug huh?
trust Mrs Llama is feeling better?
No i did not, enforced quarantine worked as planned, and she is, also i heard from someone that we had a gastro Outbreak not to long ago in South Auckland.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
True, though if 100,000 Israelis knocked on the president’s door to convince him of the error his ways, that might do it.
That’s why I’m wondering about the relationship between communal responsibility and individual responsibility. Obviously, deriding someone for not having prevented something they were powerless to prevent is unfair. But is it equally unfair to deride someone for being part of a group of people who have not prevented something they had the power to prevent? And so on.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
‘I don’t know enough about this guy’s views on his ex-country’s actions to comment.” – He doesn’t appear to have afforded that to his israeli customers? People who live in glass houses….
“And do you think that Operation Cast Lead was a predictable consequence of voting for Kadima?” – No, did they know that Hamas would fire 7,500 rockets and mortars at them to prompt a reaction?
“Like I said, for the purposes of argument, let’s assume that the cafe owner believes there were alternatives to Operation Cast Lead that were more moral” – lets also assume he just hates jews and has brought his cultural hatred to this corner of the world
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
This cafe owner should be in a prison cell with Burton the Butcher.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
They probably expected it, since it’s been going on for a while.
Is that what you assume? Like I said, I’m talking about the question raised by the incident, and it didn’t have to have happened for the question to be interesting. If you’re looking for an explanation of the guy’s behaviour, I don’t think either of us have enough knowledge about him to be certain.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
Up until about Nov’08 an American mate of mine living here was just about driven to distraction by people forever ripping into her over George Dubya’s war on terror/Iraq/Afghanistan/etc. As a Democrat voter she found it even harder to see the funny side of this. She had to point out that, unlike most of the NZers haranguing her, she actually HAD taken concrete steps (i.e. voting against G. Dubya) to put a stop to it, and she wondered what their basis was for asking her to make greater efforts then they themselves seemed ready to do on the Iraqi’s behalf. I definitely saw her point…
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Does this muslim cafe owner sell dynamite pies?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:28 pm
“If you’re looking for an explanation of the guy’s behaviour, I don’t think either of us have enough knowledge about him to be certain.”
I’m not looking for an explanation. In this country it is illegal to do what he has done – and IMO if he wants to stay living here he will abide by our laws or fuck off
I hope Joris de Bres goes after him with the full force of his office – but you and I probably know better than that. His actions fit with that lefty pinko agenda
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
Those Israeli women did not mention the wanton killing of innocent children.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
He-Man
“Those Israeli women did not mention the wanton killing of innocent children.”
Probably not, do you think that the Turk mentioned that Hamas are a terrorist group?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
It is not a matter of private property or right to refuse who you want.
When you open your business to the public there are certain obligations that come with it.
One of these is to serve all people who desire your services unless they threaten you or your livelihood no matter what their race, religion or sex.
Were the refused parties some murderous black piece of shit or tattooed brown Tama Iti-type nutter the refusers would be locked up by now and a posse of PC scum and their we-know-best imitation commy minto-type cohorts would be outside forming a lynch mob.
It wasn’t, it was two normal looking, almost white young ladies being refused service because someone else of their religion (or supposed religion) was taking out a few future suicide bombers and terrorists along with several of the current lot.
These shop owners, their shops, families and supporters should be dumped in Foveaux Straight – well away from the oyster beds – and forgotten about.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
Patrick
I heard Joris interviewed on Radio Live today, it seems that his office cannot do anything about this at all, apparently when they have a case like this their job is to (and you are going to love this)……try and resolve the matter.
More proof that the office of the race relations conciliator is a complete waste of time and money.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
getstaffed says:
“Can you imagine the furor of this were a white cafe owner refusing to serve local Maori in Wanganui!”
‘Furor’??
Don’t you mean “funeral”??!!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Jeez Bruv, why doesn’t his reaction surprise me….
There’s a lot of weeding out to be done, and I just hope Key has the spine to do it – yeah…..? (maybe)
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
thedavincimode, nah those Wanganui hori are wimps.
Vote:But you could try it on up in the Hokianga and see how long the rail is that they run you out of town on.
January 15th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
He-Man are you real, or just a spam or a virus that just repeats itself like a stuck record?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
wikiriwhis business says:
“Imagine if he was a Jew banning Arabs
John Minto …”
… or worse, banning John Minto simply on on the basis of being from the genus: ‘fuckwitus deadbeatus’.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
grumpyoldhori
touché
but in my defence, one must still factor in the “mungy” factor and the ‘nui is still an essential cornerstone of their hearts and minds strategy.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Patrick Starr says:
“Well hullo Mr Tekinkaya. Tell us what the Turks are doing to the Kurds?”
Well, killing them actually, but you’re not allowed to say that and anyway, that’s different.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
How is this not Apartheid??? How can this be legal in 2009 in New Zealand?
The silence from the likes of Keith Locke and John Minto is deafening. Can you imagine what would happen if an Israeli cafe owner refused service to two Muslim woman from Gaza, various so called peace groups would be protesting outside 24/7, chanting SHAME SHAME SHAME
Instead, they say nothing, they should be ashamed of themselves for their silence.
So call woman right’s blogs such as The Hand Mirror and socialist blogs such as the Standard are normally jumping on stories when there is injustice for woman or minority groups, on this occasion they say nothing, that is so hypocritical, how can they say they are for equal rights and peace, here is a man kicking out two woman because they are jews, its disgusting and hopefully this cafe will be closed down shortly.
I guess you can be a bigoted racist pig as long as your a Muslim, welcome to the world of peace protesters/human rights activists and left wing bloggers.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
3-coil says:
“Mustafa Tekinkaya is a hateful racist, an anti-semetic bigot.
He will gather a groundswell of support from like-minded New Zealanders.”
… ie in Christchurch …
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
you surely mean “as a middle eastern muslim in christchurch ‘?’ “
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 8:16 pm
“‘Hamas to blame for Israeli raids’
15 January 2009
The Israeli military informed the owner that his house was a military target, and gave him 30 minutes to leave with his family before it was attacked. The owner responded by telling Hamas, which immediately sent dozens of mothers carrying babies to stand on the roof of the house”
http://www.sowetan.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=918419
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
fascinating the responses. Owner rights vs citizen rights. I suspect the owner will be paying a price in conservative Invercargill but actually it’s not as simple as black vs white … a shade of grey perhaps.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
It is a sad situation where a person running his own buisiness cannot refuse to serve anybody for whatever reason … the nanny state PC merchants are really ruining the freedom of the individual …. it is not as if that is the only cafe in Invercargil .. it was also silly of the women to talk hebrew in the current situation with their IDF thugs running rampant in Gaza.
Instead of killing their neighbours at the ratio of a thousand to a handfull why don’t the IDF shoot the rockets down? Are they only good a shooting women and children instead of military weapons? It is classic IDF practice to try and subdue their opponents with superior military force instead of Israel seeking and implemnting a meaningful action to de-fuse the situation which has been an festering sore for over half a century.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
Murray M …. best if we sent both lot home then we could have a quiet life and no thread on this blog.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
What?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Negative karma for your last posting Patrick, I guess the left are just not interested in the truth.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Can you imagine what would happen if an Israeli cafe owner refused service to two Muslim woman from Gaza….
It probably happens all the time over there
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
….by telling Hamas, which immediately sent dozens of mothers carrying babies to stand on the roof of the house”…..
The writer is associate director of the South African Jewish Board of Deputies
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Couple of points
Vote:1) Turks are in general very nice friendly people who harbour no bad feelings towards Jews or Israeli’s. In fact lots of Israeli’s spent their holidays in Turkey and they are also trading partners
2) Refusing to serve someone because of their offensive language etc is okay. Because of their race or nationality is not.
3) The bodycount is by Palestinians and so probably overstated, yet even they claim only half are civilans so those on the left if you have to should only be rabbiting on about 500 civilans
4) The lovely Norwegian doctior that is always on the news has a track record to make John Minto look like a saint
January 15th, 2009 at 9:14 pm
Does the muslim cafe owner sell medium rear hama burgers that go snap, crack and boooooooooooommmm?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:28 pm
Gopolks I’m sure the cafe owner will be thrilled being called a non-Halall piece of racist meat
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
“# He-Man (105) Vote: Add rating 6 Subtract rating 65 Says:
January 15th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
I can see their point when Israel has massacred over 300 children in the last 3 weeks.”
“He-man” You are such a dickhead!!!! …. over a million Armemians were killed during world war one by their own countrymen. On top of that thousands of Greeks and other ethnic minorities were also killed.This genocide is still denied by the turkish government today. Maybe people should not eat at their cafe as protest of their countries continuous denial of it’s actions, never mind that they didn’t personally do it. Oh wait, too late, New Zealand is their country now and they can spread their prejudices all they like as they are muslim, they can’t do anything wrong.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
It is not a matter of private property or right to refuse who you want”
Yes it is…nothing but…
“When you open your business to the public there are certain obligations that come with it.”
Only that you respect their rights…nothing else.
“One of these is to serve all people who desire your services unless they threaten you or your livelihood no matter what their race, religion or sex.”
Sorry but thats bullshit….all that matters is that they can pay for the service/product they want..
If you don’t want to serve someone you don’t’ wish to thats whats important…its called freedom…
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Michael M. Wilson wrote above at 3.05pm: “It reminds me of the bar on Queens St that would not sever Pacific Islanders.”
Does Michael think the bar should have severed them? That is cut their heads off??????????
What would Red Boris the Commissioner say about that? Keep a cool head? This is extreme prejudice on a per capita basis? A coconut shy is one thing but this goes too bloody far?
And the name of this bar Michael? Was it the infamous Heads You Lose?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
So the Turk can treat anyone who comes into his business anyway he fucken likes. Well from where I’m standing he can’t. For better or for worse I am a Pharmacist. If I were to tell anyone to fuck off because I don’t like where they come from, not only would I have the HRC kicking my arse. Once the Health & Disabilty Commisioner and the Pharmacy Council got through with me, I would either have to sell up, or employ a manager for the time I was struck off. In the interum I would have to flip burgers, gut fish, pick apples or maybe open a kebab shop and show them how it is done. I hope the prick and his mate get rail-roaded out of Invercargill.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Bruv, The left are only interested in breaking down the western democracy, together with anything that represents it, and by any means that opposes it.
“The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is an Arabic proverb adopted by the left
If all went to shit in the Middle East it will be Islam vs. the west. In which case we should start noting the names of the sympathisers now – (for the consequential round-up)
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
Patrick we can get some rockets aimed at Reids and Spoffs family houses as we know they won’t fight back.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
SR they’d have to only be Qassams because they are harmless apparently
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
When I lived in Nelson I used to eat lunch at a local kebab shop every working day for three years. The Turkish owners are lovely people and really great friends. Although Muslim, they called me brother and even gave me a Christmas present. I sure as hell hope the actions of the dickheads in Invercargill don’t impact on these worthy Turkish immigrants. I remember after 9/11 they were truly distraught at what had happened in the USA.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 10:42 pm
Who ever said that, Patrick? I only ever talked about the fact that Gaza wasn’t about stopping them.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Wow… you must look and smell like a kebab
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
Murray M – you’ll probably find it depends on whether they were staunch muslim or not
granted you didnt reid. from memory it was spoff and/or borker. (dont worry – youre not yet considered a sympathiser)
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
“Hamas agrees in principle to Egypt offer for Gaza truce Last update – 11:20 15/01/2009”
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055786.html
fingers crossed
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Oh dear.. Islamafacists claiming freedom of expression by Jew hating.
Hey it’s been tried before… generally accepted by most as pure evil. Mind you the Turks have such a wonderful history towards other races.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Murray M…”So the Turk can treat anyone who comes into his business anyway he fucken likes.”
Yep!!! Thats what a free society is supposed to be about…its what the Anzacs fought for…the right to be WRONG….and suffer the consequences….
” Well from where I’m standing he can’t.”
Well fucking stand somewhere else…at the moment you seem to be rooted in the soil of Cuba…
“For better or for worse I am a Pharmacist. If I were to tell anyone to fuck off because I don’t like where they come from, not only would I have the HRC kicking my arse.”
Actually its the reaction of the free market that would be of more concern to you….you know…the people who actually provide your profit…? Therefore you are pretty carefull about what you say and to whom…?
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Don’t be a dick James
Vote:You can’t commit a crime in the name of freedom of expression…. and it IS a crime to descriminate against someone in NZ based on race.
That is what the ANZACs fought for…. they fought Nazism with it’s Jew hating freaks.
January 15th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Thanks Patrick.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Don’t be a dick James
“You can’t commit a crime in the name of freedom of expression…. and it IS a crime to descriminate against someone in NZ based on race.”
So its a crime to exercise your right to liberty and exclude those you want nothing to do with…? Who won WW 2 again please tell me…? The law in this regard is an ass and is invalid….ignore it and feel vindictaed while doing so…Lance…they are called balls….grow a pair.
“That is what the ANZACs fought for…. they fought Nazism with it’s Jew hating freaks.”
They fought collectivism…with its freedom hating freaks…noddy!
You most certainly CAN commit a crime in the name of freedom of expression…see the topic of this post…..geez!
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
Boy did he manage to piss off the uppity liberals. DPF, don’t confuse your terms. Political protest isn’t racism, it’s political protest.
“The bodycount is by Palestinians and so probably overstated” Nice to be able to so arrogantly and cowardly say that from the comfort of a middle class keyboard on the other side of the world. But then SR has shown himself to be possibly the most racist in the whole Kiwi blogosphere, what do you expect really from a few uppity liberals.
It’s bloody political protest people, get over it. I liked the comments by the women though, “he should be put in his place” yeah like the dirty arab pig dog he is. Good luck James, the uppity liberals have their poor sensibilities dented, they will get nasty.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
WTF are you blathering about James… you are seriously unhinged mate.. take a pill and look at the shit you are shovelling.
So James are you saying racism is o.k. if it appeals to your sense of outrage and it is a legitimate expression of your perspective. Let that seed into your head and you will end up one sick puppy… opps too late!
Shit … you are saying racism is o.k. because it’s an expression of freedom. Being a racist is not a sign of having a balls fool, more a lack of neurons.
Vote:January 15th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
“and it IS a crime to descriminate against someone in NZ based on race.”
Yeah, but this is merely an indication of how far we have strayed from basic ideas on freedom, private property and individual rights, the very things that made the West the civilized part of the world that every other part of the world wanted to live in.
You should think about what the law should really be, and how there is a clear distinction between government and the individual.- Government cannot discriminate on any grounds. Private people on their own damn property can discriminate until the cows come home if that is their wish.
..and as distasteful as the actions of some people may be, you inbred half educated well indoctrinated uncivilized commies should stay the fuck out of it on the grounds that interfering is a breach of civil rights that is in the end much more destructive to society than anything that might be perceived as racially insulting.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 12:01 am
Paul, the arsewipe from linwood. Fuck off back to hiding under your bed
“Political protest ” bullshit, in this country discrimination like that is against the law – (as should you be)
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 12:15 am
Wow… I am truly shocked at what some here think that freedom is.
I will have to agree to be entirely repulsed and leave it at that.
And Red.. I am not a commie.. you are wrong wrong wrong on that one. But is that a handy label you stick on anyone you disagree with? Along with uneducated (you must be such a clever little boy), shit that BE is such a waste of paper.. I want my money back!
Sure the fools on the left under Labour swung too far to the collective end of the scale but you don’t have to fix it by swinging to the other extreme.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 12:41 am
“I will have to agree to be entirely repulsed and leave it at that.”
That is because you still do not understand the point. Look, you may indeed find the actions of the shop keeper objectionable, and fairly so. But you cannot go that one step further and LEGISLATE to prevent that shop keeper from discriminating, if he so wishes, on his own damn property.
If you do this, you commit a worse transgression of civil rights by treading on traditional property rights (the foundation of any free society) than the shop keeper does in offending his customers by means of racial or religious discrimination.
You are confined to condemning his actions on moral or other grounds. You cannot make his actions unlawful. Like most poorly educated products of the progressive education system, you are just not aware of the importance of property rights to the existence of a civil society. They (the controllers of NZ’s education system) don’t want you to know of that importance, because it interferes with their collectivist vision of NZ’s future.
“Sure the fools on the left under Labour swung too far to the collective end of the scale but you don’t have to fix it by swinging to the other extreme.”
For fuck’s sake. There is nothing extreme about reverance for property rights. It is a concept that has underpinned the governance of free countries for centuries.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 12:49 am
To follow on-
That you think it is an extreme concept just demonstrates how poorly educated and well indoctrinated you are. You say you are not a commie, but you adopt the prime strategy of communists everywhere, and that is to attack and undermine property rights.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 12:56 am
The problem is the world will have to burn for a while before people realize what type of shit they are in, why is it legitimate for a government to decide what people can and cannot do on their own property? that isn’t a function of legitimate government, that is why i am on the Arabs side, not because i agree with him but because it is his right to refuse service to whom ever he pleases and it is my right to refuse purchase of his goods and services.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 7:56 am
The real discrimination that goes on in NZ is the way the law is enforced. If I decided to ban all muslims from my business because I object to those involved in terrorism Id be hung out to dry so fast my feet would’t touch the ground – and because I’m a white kiwi I’d be made more of an example of.
You either have a law – or you don’t.
Vote:If you have it then enforce it equally comrade de Bres
January 16th, 2009 at 8:04 am
Tekinkaya’s action is one of blatent racial discrimination. Pure and simple.
The fool probably acted impulsively when he overheard these two ladies chatting in Hebrew. His subsequent actions and statements are simply faux, utterly embarrassing self-justifications to try and cover his racist backside.
The HRO should be down on him like a ton of bricks whilst the good and right-thinking people of Invercargill should be giving his business the elbow.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 8:09 am
James @ 11.07pm, actually it’s the Health & Disabilty commision and the Pharmacy Council I’m most worried about. Unlike the HRC, they don’t fuck around.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 8:13 am
The cafe owner is operating a business with a walk in cliental and I support the idea that anybody may walk in and legitimately and morally have a right to service. Otherwise, we should have signs over cafe’s doors telling us who is acceptable and who isint, and then we would know and not have to put up with public humiliation because the cafe owner didn’t like so and so.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 8:14 am
This just in from the New York Times …
“Israeli forces shelled areas deep inside Gaza City on Thursday, hitting the headquarters of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency and injuring at least three people among the hundreds taking shelter in the compound, according to United Nations officials and witnesses.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel expressed regret for the strike but said that Israeli forces were fired on by Hamas militants from just outside the United Nations compound and the militants then ran inside to take cover, according to Mr. Olmert’s spokesman, Mark Regev. ”
So if Hamas take refuge in Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece, Italy or hey the US Israel is entitled to shell those countries?
There will never be peace while Israel behaves like this. There ought to be sanctions and a UN peacekeeping force. And the actions of a Turkish cafe owner really do pale in comparison.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 8:17 am
“This just in from the New York Times …”
Who gives a fuck what’s in that disreputable leftist propaganda sheet, the foundation stone of the lying edifice that today’s mainstream media is recognised as by anyone with a brain.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 8:26 am
senzafine; If he can not discriminate on race he is not free!
MT_Tinman: no that is not an obligation, it may be a good idea for commercial reasons but that does not make it an obligation
Lance; In NZ there is a huge gap between what is legally right and what is morally right. This is one example.
James; great posts thanks.
The collectivists out there should ask themselves these questions to see if they understand the principle of property rights.
1) A pregnant woman wants to buy cigarettes/alcohol from my shop, can I refuse to sell them to her?
2) Helen Clark wants to buy some makeup from my shop, can I refuse to sell them to her?
3) Keith Locke wants to buy timber for hoardings from my shop, can I refuse to sell them to him?
4) David Wayne Tamahere has been released from prison and wants to buy a full archery kit and camoflage gear from my shop, can I refuse to sell them to him?
Lawrence oO
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 8:31 am
“……….outside the United Nations compound and the militants then ran inside to take cover, ”
Foolish of the useless UN for letting them in. Of course, the UN is firmly planted on the HAMAS side of the equation. I’ll never forget an Israel/Palestine peace conference held in NY at the UN with Koffi Annan chairing. The huge map of the middle east proudly displayed on the wall didn’t even include Israel and the Palestinian flag was standing beside the UN one on the podium. And you wonder why Israel ignores the UN.
“There will never be peace while Israel behaves like this”
The audacity of those Israelis, defending their people & their country. What cheek. Be careful Mickey, the world is a dangerous place when you only look through one eye.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:06 am
a few things have been misunderstood in this argument.
it’s not about race, racism and freedom to trade under capitalist ideals.
the cafe owner refused to serve the women because they came from a country at war with people he identifed with.
If this present war had not occurred, he would most likely have served them.
if we allow the transfer of foreign battle lines to our country, we will soon descend into anarchy. Protecting our state from anarchy is worth much more than protecting capitalism. I doubt the commenters who support this turn towards anarchy within NZ are truely aware of what they have to lose – even if they grew up in poverty, they did not grow up in a feudal warring state, or forced into nomadic tribes for survival. While the transition may birth something better than the socialism we now have, the battle will still have to be fought first, a battle that will come to their door too. Or possibly the people responsible for the destruction will take control. And there will be no one to bleat to then. No one will save you, or care. No internet, no MP’s to write to, no letters to the editor, no Danny Watson 1ZB.
So before unleashing chaos, just take a moment to think and realise where bitterness and jealously and hatred is taking you.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:21 am
So Lawrence.. where is the line drawn?
If it’s on your own property can you bite the heads off small animals, put up Nazi signs, encourage assassinations etc?
This freedom without restriction is anarchy, therefore amoral and as such evil for pure evil is the complete lack of empathy or another… a worthy bed fellow of communism. History teaches us any extreme view points always end up hurting a lot of people.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:25 am
“Wow… I am truly shocked at what some here think that freedom is.”
Political freedom means freedom from OTHER people…and their demands and wants…it means NOT being enslaved to them to serve them coffee if you don’t wish to..
Lance….. People do have the right to be racist,sexist, etc if thats what they want….its called the right to liberty…and that right includes the right to be wrong and suffer the consequences.
I never said racism was ok….just that people have the right to be racist…you yourself over your lifetime have discriminated against and in favour of other people based on the values you hold…should you be banned from doing so…?
The cafe owners actions violate no ones rights…there is no right to walk onto the property of another and demand service.A bussiness is private propertyy and you enter with the permission of the owner and abide by the condictions HE/SHE sets….not your own.If you don’t like that then you have the right to leave and shop elsewhere…simple isn’t it?
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:31 am
James
I find the concept of anarchy nothing but bad.
Just because it do not subscribe this extreme view it does not mean I support the opposite extreme view.
New Zealand under anarchy would be a very ugly place to live.
We will have to agree to disagree
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:33 am
“simple isn’t it?”
It is simple, but what you’re up against is massive propaganda and sub standard education from a predominantly government controlled education system. ..and that government is ideologically opposed to property rights.
Such thinking, that false crimes such as racism and or sexual discrimination are more important than property rights, is endemic in NZ since the left have controlled education.
Its a mammoth task to get people to see sense when the forces that oppose you are so monolithic and powerful. Its like telling Nth Korean children that their leader is not a god. They just can’t fathom the concept.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:33 am
So Lawrence.. where is the line drawn?”
Where your actions violate the individual rights of a non consenting other.”My freedom to swing my fist ends where your nose begins’
Up to that point you can swing you fist all you like..
“If it’s on your own property can you bite the heads off small animals, put up Nazi signs, encourage assassinations etc?”
If they are your legally owned animals then yes…but you would be shunned by everyone else and no one would sell you animals…..Nazi signs…? Sure…go for it…its your property….but see answer one…there will be consequences.Encourage assassinations…?Again sure….thats free speech…but you will invite a shit storm upon yourself that you will not want.
Its the consequences of our actions that temper our behaviour…the feed back loops that cause us to refrain from certain actions even though we have the right to carry them out.
“This freedom without restriction is anarchy, therefore amoral and as such evil for pure evil is the complete lack of empathy or another… a worthy bed fellow of communism. History teaches us any extreme view points always end up hurting a lot of people.”
this freedom is NOT without restriction….as I pointed out there are consequences for every action…but if the action does not violate the rights of another then its no business of the State and no one else has the right to stop it by force.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Anarchy?????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????
For fuck’s sake you unintelligent half educated fully indoctrinated collectivist dimbulb. This is nothing even close to anarchy. Fucken hopeless.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:39 am
James
I find the concept of anarchy nothing but bad.”
So do I…thats not what I support.Im a Libertarian….a beliver in strong, but small,limited Government thats soul legitimate role is to protect rights…not violate them as some are calling for re the cafe owner.
“Just because it do not subscribe this extreme view it does not mean I support the opposite extreme view.
New Zealand under anarchy would be a very ugly place to live.”
Agreed.But NZ under creeping facsism that we are seeing now is no utopia either…
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Red.. if you run out of insults will you have nothing to say?
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Anarchy would be advocating property damage and removal of a (mal)functioning Government by any means necessary, i guess that would sum it up in a nut shell.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 9:54 am
Lance, I think you are completely brainless, half educated and well indoctrinated, and that opinion is supported by your constant inability to understand what is being said here. Deny it to yourself if you must, but the sad truth is, you are a real and living example of a brainwashed collectivist, the kind that is dragging this country down into a completely disgusting political sewer.
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 10:01 am
I bow to Reds superior brain power ………………………………………………
Vote:January 16th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Apologies if this has already been mentioned as have not had a chance to read all the comments to this thread, however, does anyone see the irony in a Turkish cafe owner protesting about an ‘occupation’ and/or ethnic cleansing when one considers the situation in Cyprus?
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