General Debate 10 August 2026

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BarryB

A couple of days ago there was a discussion on here about maori language words. It reminded me of some Chinese history.
When the first Europeans got to China they landed in Canton – the area of Hong Kong and Macau. I assume they asked the question “Where does the Emperor live?” and the answer was ‘Peking’. In Cantonese (the language of the Canton area) the capital of China is called Peking (as pronounced using phonetics in english). If these early arrivals had landed further north where Mandarin dialect is used, the answer to their question would have been Bejing. Those early explorers were not wrong – as was claimed years ago when the name officially changed.

Now back to Maori language. It is claimed that words like Whanganui and Taupo and Whakatane and many others are not pronounced correctly. The latest iteration says
that the three above should be pronounced as Fanga-nui or Wanga-nui (depends where you live), and Toe-paw, and Fa-ka-TAH-ne – again sort of using phonetics. In some cases the use of diacritical mark crops up in maori words to indicate a concentration on some letters – so Fa-ka-TAH-ne could be written as Fa-ka-tàh-ne

Now I look at these words and think to myself ‘How could the early European arrivals got things so wrong’ Why did they hear Toe-paw yet spell it Taupo – phonetically different words. Same with Fakatàhne – why did they phonetically spell it Whakatane.
If they heard the currently claimed pronunciation they would have spelt it fokataane.
Either the early arrivals spelt the words correctly or they purposely spelt them incorrectly so as to piss of later generations of Maori.

I think they actually spelt them as they heard them and the current move to come up with ever more complicated pronunciations is simply a gravy train affectation exercise.
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August 10, 2026 8:02am
Cassandra

“Māori data in Māori hands’: Experts want Google to adhere to data sovereignty principles.” RNZ headline.

I’ll go long with this, as long as the principle is applied consistently. For example, almost no modern surgical or medical treatments were developed by Maoris. Accordingly, no Maoris should expect to access any of them.

I’m happy for anyone with a legitimate interest in them to access my data, regardless of their race.
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August 10, 2026 8:13am
- David Garrett
  
  Cass: What do you mean “almost”? What modern surgical procedures were practiced by the pre 1840 Maori? (From memory they had some leaves to chew for diarrhea)
  
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  August 10, 2026 8:41am
Cassandra

And in an interesting redefinition of tino rangatiratanga (self-determination, autonomy , sovereignty) the Green Party wants the Government to borrow $2.4 billion to establish a ring fenced endowment for maraes. All funding decision using the income to be made by the tribes. Independent but still living at home.
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August 10, 2026 8:14am
Yvette

OT – out there
Why is it that it nearly always transpires that OT knew about the child concerned yet did nothing or not enough? Searle said Oranga Tamariki was not fit for purpose. [1]

Disturbing as that is, this comment concerns the name: ‘Oranga Tamariki ‘
Child Welfare has undergone name changes, from English, to Maori and English, Maori only and now frequently abbreviation of the still Maori: OT

Now I, in many ways, find I have become an Accidental Racist [2] mostly spurred by news or other views of Maori being presented as fact when much of it is fiction, or the Aryan-like raising up of their ancient wisdom (religion) being more equal than others, that the courts apparently recognise Maori have a greater affinity for water, whereas all us will die without it, while Maori historically account for roughly 20% to 31% of annual drowning fatalities depending on the year, disproportionate to their population portion. That State television shows nearly every sporting team indulging in the ministry of silly walks or doing the haka. That we should be co-governed by Maori when “Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated” [3] according to the almost daily mantra, and in decisions may take as long as they have with Ihumātao.

And in the past, child welfare I would read about, then an imbalance suggested Maori children were the most important (and also the greatest population portion, again, involved) and the use of the te reo name Oranga Tamariki moved a seemingly perpetually negative Ministry towards being a Maori only ministry, and my interest also departed.

From 1-News at 6 now delivering Maori phrases so quickly and glibly that they must bore the fluent and are of no value to learners, but now are pronounced with consonants appearing at the end of syllables, which in Maori te reo never occurs, to re-written history and the void before 1840 –

I am an Accidental Racist.
How many others are OT – out there?
________________
[1] Lindsay Mitchell: Why the vacuum around the new Children’s Commissioner?
https://www.brashandmitchell.com/post/lindsay-mitchell-why-the-vacuum-around-the-new-children-s-commissioner
[2] akin to “The Accidental Pope” by Ray Flynn and Robin Moore. A humble fisherman is elected as the next pope in this novel by the bestselling author of The French Connection and the former US Ambassador to the Vatican. In the Sistine Chapel, still undecided about who they should vote for, the Cardinals smile to themselves as they cast what they think are throw-away symbolic votes for Bill Kelly, a former priest and now a Cape Cod fisherman, who rescued some priests — but too many cardinals are of a like mind, and no one is laughing when Kelly is elected “Accidental Pope”
[3] Kelvin Davis
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August 10, 2026 8:25am