A common border
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 am by David FarrarI’m a fan of there being a common border with Australia, so one can travel between the two countries as if it was a domestic flight. It is great, in Europe, being able to cross country borders with no passport checks etc.
Ironically I’m just old enough to remember being able to travel to Australia without a passport – the requirement to have one only came about in the early 80s I think.
Anyway good t0 see Rudd and Key wanting to make a decision this year on a common border – rather than wait until 2015.
Related posts:
- Border SmartGate
- The trans-Tasman relationship
- Can’t find the common denominator
- The law of common sense
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
Does this affect biosecurity issues at all?
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
It began in July 1981 at the request of the Australian Government,
All people entering Australia will be required to carry a passport as from 1 July 1981 the
Minister for Immigration and Ethnic Affairs, Mr Ian McPhee announced in Canberra today.
This measure is intended to curb abuses of the existing Trans-Tasman Travel Arrangement.
Under this arrangement Australian and New Zealand citizens and certain other people with
resident status in the two countries have been able to cross the Tasman without passports.
The Australian Royal Commission of Inquiry into Drugs and Australian police, security and
immigration authorities have drawn attention to the ease with which the existing arrangement
can be exploited.
P6 of http://www.dfat.gov.au/geo/new_zealand/02ttta.pdf
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:38 am
About 1984 – 85 I think. Australia unilaterally required Kiwis to have passports, and NZ said that Aussies would not need passports to come to NZ, but that requirement was quietly introduced later.
Coming to think of it, it was an enormous loophole especially considering that Australia required all foreigners except NZ passport holders to have visas stamped in their passports, even if it was for a short holiday (they still require visas but this can now be done via internet).
As far as I know, the Australian Constitution has a provision allowing New Zealand to become part of Australia if it chooses to (New Zealand was once part of New South Wales).
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 am
Nope, NZ was never “part of NSW”, although it was administered from there for a period.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:54 am
If I recall, had allowance written into the Australian ‘constituion’ or some founding document to include NZ into the country.
I’m sure its far more complex than that though, just my recollection.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Be good to have a common border with the West Island.
Doesn’t really inconvenience us at the moment. Just think a photo card should be sufficient to gain entry.
Departure Tax is more of an issue from all Airports now.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Hopefully it means they get rid of departure tax. that would be good for aussie tourism. youd fly return for about $250. nice.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 8:59 am
dime – those Aussie departure taxes are killers.
I guess a common border would mean that all those immigrants that Australia rejects who come to NZ will make it to Oz after all, and a lot quicker.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 9:05 am
I don’t see how it will affect departure taxes per se. I had to pay a $5 departure tax from Palmerson North to Auckland the other week!
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 9:07 am
ha ha – lose departure tax!
More like lose expensive overheads re: customs and immigrations, still charge departure tax.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
Hey, a Dime can dream!
Just bugs me – flight from brisbane to auckland, $95. Tax $160!
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 9:29 am
Rakaia
Of course you have to pay a departure tax when you leave Palmy, nobody would pay to get into the place.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 9:33 am
Makes sense to me.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 9:33 am
# dime (1085) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
March 3rd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Hopefully it means they get rid of departure tax. that would be good for aussie tourism. youd fly return for about $250. nice.
It would but one thing you could be sure of is that NZ airports would ramp up departure taxes to match the Ockers rather than the Ockers suddenly remove them.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 10:46 am
What is the point of this except perhaps the symbolic value. There needs to be a number of issues to be harmonised including immigration issues, criminal justice issues maybe an ANZAC warrant so that there is no need for formal extradition or at least a similar one that operates between Australian states and no doubt many other issues.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 11:07 am
Biosecurity is a huge concern for me. Can you imagine what would happen to our apple exports if Australian fire blight made its way across the Tasman? Or if the sydney funnel web spider decides that the sandy earth of the Bay of Islands was the perfect place to start an investation?
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 11:15 am
Oh well, better than the old days when you needed a Criminal Record to get into Australia.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 11:41 am
With no border checks that’s one way to get rid of troubling immigration statistics.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 11:52 am
“As far as I know, the Australian Constitution has a provision allowing New Zealand to become part of Australia if it chooses to”
The preamble to the Australian Constitution includes New Zealand, as the colonial government in Wellington was involved in the conventions held prior to Federation. The preamble does not mention Western Australia as the colonial government in Perth was having a hissy fit at the time. Sandgropers believe that means they can secede if they want but the Federal Government has a different opinion.
In the unlikely event that NZ were to join the Federation, you would be the fourth largest state by population, marginally lower than Queensland’s population. The mutual benefit would be that we would have one hell of a rugby team – one less likely to choke at RWC finals
(I know that this is going to earn me a lot of ‘thumbs down’)
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 12:20 pm
If the issue is to speed up going the the airport it fails. Takes longer to get your baggage than to go thru customs.
Vote:I hear KevinCrud extolling the virtues of the longest running free trade agreement in the world. i.e. CER. Little bit he forgot to talk about was that we can’t sell our apples there. Having to go to the WTO to sort that out. Plonkers.
March 3rd, 2009 at 12:28 pm
If NZ joined Australia we would be Victoria (without the fires) as our populations about the same though I assume Victoria has a larger wealth. I love the comment you once need a CRIMINAL RECORD to get into Australia.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I have uploaded the TVNZ Paul Henry interview with John Key where he discusses the common borders issue along with Judy Kirk etc here. I think Paul Henry gives John Key a free ride and the interview should be done by a lefty journo to make it more entertaining.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I wonder how many more kiwis would move to Australia if it were easier than it is now (and it’s already pretty easy). This needs to be thought through more; the commerical imperatives and upsides need to be matched against risks less this end up benefiting Australia far more than it does NZ.
Henry’s no worse than he ever was, no worse than the industry average but it must raise eyebrows that he’s a former National candidate? If he were talented it mightn’t matter of course.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
but wouldnt this make it easier for the brain-drain to leave for australia? Anyway I like it, its just this irony i’m trying to deal with.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:01 pm
I must say there doesn’t really seem to be anything remotely approaching a partisan divide on this issue, nor do there seem to be any sticking points (maybe they’re just keeping bio security measures…), so not sure what use a lefty journo would be..?
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:03 pm
.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:05 pm
If NZ joined Australia, it would be part of the second speed economy frankly. Australia’s productivity is higher than NZ due mainly to the mineral-rich states, Qld and WA, performance over the last ten years. NZ would struggle to match SA and NSW.
People in NZ used to complain when the OCR went up ’cause of the property boom in Akl, what do you think would happen if it was the RBA balancing interest rates and wage-inflation in WA compared with Christchurch? The interstate rivalries and contests would not play to NZ advantage and I wonder what additional market access we’d get.
There’s much to commend Australia – I’ve been here 6 and a half years but there’s real and quantifiable risks (to union particularly) that need thinking through. Plus, I can’t imagine kiwiblog readers wanting more goverment… that’s what you’d get, lots and lots more…
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:06 pm
Paul, it’s called personal freedom. If making it easier to move results in more people moving to Oz then the solution is to make NZ a better place to live and work. The alternative was tried by USSR, China, North Korea etc etc.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
getstaffed, your personal freedom to move to an independent soveriegn nation is a matter for them, not you… Australia already makes provision for kiwis to move there and work, they’re just considering if they want to do more. My view is that the NZ soveriegn government ought to think about the up- and down-sides of that.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:21 pm
Paul, If the Aussie govt want to make their country a more attractive place for kiwi’s to work and live then, as you say, that their decision. I would be concerned if any NZ government used its power to reduce my option to take us said attractiveness. Not likely under National so not too worried.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
So how exactly is Key going to make good on his promise to stop families “waving goodbye to their loved-ones” or was that just pre-election BS? My point is that you can’t have it both ways!
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Our host DPF is right that a common border with Australia would be great for New Zealand. However, I think he goes too far in saying Rudd and Key want to make a decision this year on a common border. If you listen to Key in the TVNZ interview Key says this:
“2016 is a helluva long time away for New Zealanders to continue to have to go through passport control at the Australian side and line up when they come home late at midnight on the other side in New Zealand.”
I think he is talking here about customs, immigration, biosecurity etc controls before passengers board Tasman flights, not abolishing border controls on the Tasman.
Key sounded a little bit hazy when he cites Europe, saying:’… if it can happen in Europe surely it can happen between Australia and NZ.”
Europe is a full economic and extensive political union. NZ and Australia just have a free trade agreement. Unfortunately, I doubt Canberra would agree the borders should be as invisible as they are within the EU. If Key wants full political union or even full economic union he should say so.
Also in his post 8.37, Anonymouse said requirement for NZ passports for Tasman travel was introduced at the request of the Australian Government in 1981. In fact Australia imposed the requirement. It told the New Zealand Government at short notice that the requirement would be introduced. It did not request a mutual decision.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 2:55 pm
“If NZ joined Australia we would be Victoria (without the fires) as our populations about the same though I assume Victoria has a larger wealth. ”
The estimated population of the Australian states at 30 June 2008, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, was 6.967m in NSW, 5.297m in Victoria, 4.279m in Queensland, 2.163m in WA, 1.601m in SA and 0.498m in Tasmania. The estimated population of NZ at the same date, according to Statistics New Zealand, was 4.270m. As I mentioned earlier, if NZ were a part of an Australasian Federation it would be the fourth largest state by population.
I would guess that Queensland’s population growth would be greater than NZ, so the difference in June 08 of 9,000 would be greater now. Despite the economic climate there is still a lot of intra-state migration from NSW and Victoria to SE Queensland, particularly with the Labor government in NSW driving this state into the ground. There was also an old joke about the slogan on Victorian number plates “Victoria – On the Move!”, “yeah, to Brisbane!”
I’m not sure where NZ would sit in terms of GDP.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Australia has a lot of animals, plants and pests and diseases that are NOT FOUND in NZ. If flights from Aus come through without full, 100% screening through biosecurity, these organisms will get into NZ and destroy our farming economy, our native wildlife and our landscape. A common border is a very bad idea from a conservation and farming point of view.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I’m guessing he’ll work hard to make NZ a place that Kiwis choose to stay contributing to. The alternative is to cluelessly impose restrictions, erect barriers etc. I can think of a couple of political parties who would do the latter.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:15 pm
“I can’t imagine kiwiblog readers wanting more goverment… that’s what you’d get, lots and lots more…”
On the basis of the current composition of the Federal Parliament, NZ would send 29 MPs and 12 Senators to Canberra. The Parliament in Wellington could be reduced in size, Queensland has 89 MPs in its Legislative Assembly. It’s purely hypothetical of course.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
“these organisms will get into NZ and destroy our farming economy”….LouiseR, too late Russell Norman is already here.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
Yes, so he says. But having made such an issue out of PLT departures to Australia, you might forgive me for thinking he had some specific policies in mind (not that this was clear in the manifesto)? I dear say every party in parliament would claim they’ve got the same ambition but I don’t for a minute imagine you think the Greens can deliver and yet you think this vague statement and airy goal ought to satisfy me?
Key said too many were leaving, I agree so when will this change and how? And surely the visit to Australia might be the opportune moment to clue us all in on his plans? Missed opportunity!
Yeah, so that’ll explain Labour’s successful negotiation of those FTAs right. Perhaps you might think about what actually has happened rather than trotting out fatuous partisan rhetoric?
This is helpful, I wonder how kiwibloggers feel about capital gains taxes, differentiated GST, compulsory superannuation etc. And given that Qld is now a net-contributing state through the Grants Commission, would kiwibloggers be happy to see NZ taxes go too SA?
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
While Key is chatting to Rudd perhaps he could raise the issue of Clark and Howard having signed a nice little agreement that means Kiwis living and working in NZ who arrived after 2001 and who don’t want to (or don’t meet the points criteria) to become Australian citizens get no government assistance. As someone at Centrelink aptly put it to me “you can work here the next 40 years, buy a home, pay taxes, never put a foot wrong and we’d still tell you to piss off”.
Thanks, Helen.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 3:56 pm
Rex, though I’m no fan of Howard’s (and I could put that more strongly), I think he was surprisingly pro-NZ compared with other Australian PMs.
I’m affected by this decision, I arrived late 2002 and have to apply to be a PR before being eligible to apply for citizenship but it’s not that you get no government assistance. You just get less than PRs/citizens but still more than other classes of migrants. For instance, I get both medicare and the childcare subsidy, which are hugely significant, but I’d not get the dole if I was unemployed.
I think blaming Clark for the decision of the Australian government is unreasonable, you’d not blame her for the ban on NZ apples I assume. These decisions reflect internal politics, not the standing of NZ.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Paul Williams:
When I applied for Medicare I was asked to “prove a commitment to Australia”. I produced a mortgage and they gave me a card. I assumed that was the test for any migrant… I certainly didn’t get one automatically, but nor did it seem to matter where I was from provided I could show I wasn’t just passing through to get some cheap medical care. So I’d assumed NZers got no special treatment in that respect… that’s odd.
The childcare subsidy is, I presume, a tax thing? Again it seems anyone who pays tax gets the same tax treatment, which seems fair.
I did a “points test” on the DIMIA website and it told me I wouldn’t get PR (too old, and they won’t recognise any degree not earned in an Australian university, as though NZ universities have a reputation for selling degrees) so yes, if it all goes pear shaped and I need the dole well tough, I get back none of the taxes I’ve paid over the last 7 years. Nor can I vote (whatever happened to “no taxation without representation”?!).
As I recall Clark willingly signed the bilateral agreement (it wasn’t just an Australian law change) and made approving noises… the excuse given being the old saw about Kiwis getting off the plane at Sydney and heading straight to the Bondi dole office. That could easily have been stopped with a two year stand down, say, but she signed away all rights to any support for people in my position. At one point that led to my being a day away from having to sleep in a park (a church group stepped in with a week’s rent, then I managed to find a job) so I do hold her responsible. A government’s duty is to defend the rights of its citizens. She sold us out without so much as a whimper of protest.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Paul, your 1:09pm post suggest that you’d support our government restricting the ease with Kiwi’s should be allowed to up sticks and move. I reject that. Pretty simple really.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Rex, couple of things. My understanding is that access to Medicare is actually a reciprocal rights thing but the card is given with a couple of conditions and I don’t recall what we had to do… Childcare could well be to do with tax, ours is done by an accountant so I can’t claim to completely understand. My point was that NZers are not excluded from any/all benefits.
I’d get over the line on the PR test even though I too would have to verify my NZ qualification… and I squeek through on age. It’s not ideal, I agree, but it’s not quite as you put it initially.
Re voting, though it annoys me that I can’t, NZ is actually a little unusual in granting PRs the right to vote, most countries limit it to citizens so again, you can’t be too hard on Australia or Clark on that score.
Lastly re the bilateral, my recollection is that the review that led to the change in PR/citizenship rules was initiated by Shipley and National and was partly a response to some pretty knee-jerk concerns about migrants to NZ then getting into Australia through the ‘back-door’ so to speak. Either way, I suspect domestic Australian politics was the cause not a lack of will on the part of the NZ PM, Shipley or Clark.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 4:36 pm
No, the first part of my statement meant NZ citizens’ access to Australia, or any country for that matter, is a matter for that other country. I can see why the second part of my statement might have been confusing though, so to clarify further: I don’t think a country can or should try to restrict people moving offshore – if I did, it’d be hypocritical of me. That’s simply one of the many implications of an increasingly dynamic and global world. What does need attention is how to avoid simply being a feeder for the Australian labour market.
I assume that’s what Key meant when he wandered around the Caketin promising to reduce the loss and I wonder when he’ll explain precisely how?
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 7:29 pm
For those mentioning departure tax – it is not a tax – I’m not sure why stating it as such is not an offence – it is a fee. Governments impose taxes – private institutions impose fees or charges.
It is a monopoly fee – and I’m a capitalist and slightly off subject has no-one noticed how parking charges have increased by approximately 4 times the rate of inflation at the airports – as Auckland Airports share price drops I’ll be in trying to get my cut.
Vote:March 3rd, 2009 at 7:33 pm
I have always been of the opinion that we should become a state of Australia, lets hope this is the first step in that process.
Vote:March 4th, 2009 at 5:26 am
New Zealand should join the Australian Federation.
The problem is that New Zealand has every benefit of joining and Australia has every reason to decline New Zealand’s application. The only reason Australia would want to “takeover” New Zealand is so it has more control over its investments in that territory. Overall New Zealand would be a deadweight loss and a massive drag on the Australian economy. Who wants 4 million bludgers with there hands out expecting someone else to pay for their lifestyle.
Vote: