Peters’ mythical fights
August 30th, 2009 at 5:56 am by David FarrarThe SST reports on the big issues for Winston Peters:
He said an official Maori flag, giving Maori easy access to university and building prisons specifically for Maori would be disastrous for Maori and the country.
Umm no one is building prisons specifically for Maori. There is no easy access to university – there was a one off suggestion by Pita Sharples that got shot down in flames within hours of being made.
So this leaves a Maori flag. Good God, how pitiful. The fact one day a year a Maori flag may fly on Waitangi Day alongside the New Zealand flag. What a sad irrelevance that this now seems to be his major issue.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:16 am
Winston is nothing if not consistent – this latest is the about the same level of ‘relevance’ as most of his other statements for the past couple of years.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 7:17 am
No David, it won’t stop at flying the flag on the bridge and everyone living happily ever after.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Peters said it wasn’t a disadvantage being outside of parliament. Surely voters will see it similarly.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 7:59 am
One must wonder why you see it necessary to make any reference to Peters, unless you see National losing support. Never forget, NZF garnered far more votes than ACT; it is purely by a quirk of the anti-democratic MMP that ACT have seats and NZF don’t.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:01 am
im pretty sure that nz first party vote was higher than minister hides act party….so he has more relevance that a minister responsible for restructuring auckland?
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:03 am
hey DF, didnt he mention the foreshore and seabed..oh you forgot that one…mind you it is a big one thou
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:19 am
What about the $158,000 he owes us? What about the lies over donations to his party? What about the baubles of office he clung to even when he lost the office?
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:21 am
“it is purely by a quirk of the anti-democratic MMP that ACT have seats and NZF don’t.”
There are quirks with any electoral system. The trick is to work to the system that is there. Act achieved one of the requirements to get seats, NZF didn’t. Simple as that.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:24 am
No, the “trick” is to design a system that enhances democracy. MMP simply fills parliamentary seats with a bunch of unrepresentative swill.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Winnie is a dried up “has-been”, he will say anything, to anyone, anytime just to keep his name in the headlines, and the dickwad media can’t get enough of him, and he knows it.
Vote:The best thing everybody can do is ignore the wanka and hope he goes away, you think he would have taken the hint when the wrinkly’s kicked his arse out last year.
People need to remember this is the same person that held the country to ransom while he played kingmaker with his nose between Herr Klarks butt cheeks.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:31 am
didnt he do a deal with national and pissed the maori vote off …. maybe there is a lesson there for the maori party
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:39 am
Interesting that New Zealand’s most outspoken “MP not in Parliament” gets a second star billing from the State Broadcaster in the space of around six weeks this morning. Does TVNZ think that the political landscape needs some colour added?
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:06 am
I think parliament needs a maverick (especially under MMP) as behaviour is too tied up in deal making between parties.
Vote:The other thing about Winston is that while much is made of the old crocks and their walking frames, attending NZ First, these people represent the old New Zealand; they are the people who enjoyed their rose gardens but didn’t benefit from the hordes of migrants labour introduced too provide customers for land developers.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:25 am
“No, the “trick” is to design a system that enhances democracy. MMP simply fills parliamentary seats with a bunch of unrepresentative swill.”
Sure, our MMP has it’s weak points, there are a few things I would prefer changed. But it’s what we have. Gotta work with that until it is changed.
You will never have a system that pleases all of the people all of the time.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:27 am
You have to wonder why the media give oxygen to Peters.
It would be a sad indictment on the NZ populace if this venal and corrupt politician returns to Parliament and the national scene. Personally, I feel he’s dead and buried. It long may continue that way.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:28 am
So let’s work towards changing them. Like dumping maori seats, dumping the getting in on coat tails of an electorate seat win and finding a way to make each of the unrepresentative swill accountable to an electorate, not a party.
MMP actually reduces the chances of more independent MPs, it entrenches the party system.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:33 am
FPP has serious deficiencies as well, although it is possible that after a stint of MMP it would work better. Is there any review of the electoral system due?
One ludicrous part of the current system is you have people like PM and dPM with full workloads plus supposedly looking after an electorate and at the same time you have list MPs with no electorate and no other responsibilities.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:44 am
BillyBorker wrote:
Too true. Government is inherently unproportional; ultimately one lot have a majority and become the government. MMP often makes this worse by giving disproportionate power to small parties in the middle.
The most embarrassing part of MMP are the list MPs. Convincing a group of people to vote for you should be the minimum requirement to get into parliament. At the very least it would ensure that MPs can communicate properly and perhaps string together a coherent argument. MMP has made MPs out of people who couldn’t get a job working in a corner dairy.
When I see MMP, I think Mixed Muppet Parliament.
The worst aspect of MMP is continual compromise. Sometime you need decisive action (e.g. 1984 Lange government, Thatcher etc) and you’ll never get this with MMP. You just muddle on with MMP.
If there was a referendum on returning to FPP, what do you think the result would be?
cheers
Malcolm
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:50 am
Compromise is a necessary part of politics. In party, caucus, cabinet, parliament. Also in what voting system you have.
We should be able to elect the best people to represent us. So the list MPs are a weak part of MMP. But even if we had the opportunity to vote for the best people to represent us would enough people do that? Or just keep voting for party/political leaning?
While FPP was more decisive it resulted in less democratic representation. It was only good for those who back the winning party.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 10:01 am
“The most embarrassing part of MMP are the list MPs. Convincing a group of people to vote for you should be the minimum requirement to get into parliament. At the very least it would ensure that MPs can communicate properly and perhaps string together a coherent argument. MMP has made MPs out of people who couldn’t get a job working in a corner dairy.’
if you can’t get people to vote for you perhaps it is because you don’t have a cogent argument.
Catherine Delahunty is like one of those people who get trashed on Americas Got Talent, making it to the big event, (although she is #8 on the green party list- the’re a bit different
).
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Please stop giving that man the time of day.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 10:22 am
We need to remember things like these –
http://tvnz.co.nz/content/432216
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/566035
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/peters-donation-admission-embarrassing-clark-33214
http://theyworkforyou.co.nz/portfolios/prime_minister/2008/sep/10/rt_hon_winston_peters
http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3560/features/11577/winstons_woes_.html
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sunday-star-times/features/549208
and the list just goes on and on, more than 36k of hits in Google.
Vote:If the media left him alone he would just wilt and go away (probably on a MPs perk) who cares that would be money well spent for a change.
He makes Phillip Field look like a saint.
He has a brilliant future on the stage, lets hope it’s the first one out of town.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Cerium wrote:
I agree that compromise is often important, however from time to time, decisiveness is essential. And MMP is less likely to deliver that. FFP for all it’s flaws, will – every 3 or 4 elections – deliver a government with a mandate for change. MMP not so much.
It’s ironic that when NZ voted for MMP, Germany (the notable example) was doing very well economically. Hey, what’s not to like about MMP, it works for the Germans. But more recently Germany (with persistently high unemployment and a stagnant economy) has been a good advertisement for the main weakness of MMP; continual compromise and inability to allow radical changes.
I think that has been proven. Can anyone argue that the calibre of MPs has improved since MMP? I don’t think so. With MMP you hold your nose and make your party vote, knowing you’re voting for some complete muppets who shouldn’t be running a cake stall, let alone the country.
Ultimately the problem with these proportional voting systems is that very thing: proportionality. At least half the voting public are idiots; do we really want to be proportionally governed by them?
cheers
Malcolm
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 10:43 am
FPP also made ministerial portfolios directly accountable. If for example Nick Smith does something terrible he could be quickly removed by FPP regardless of how the rest of his party performed.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 11:44 am
This is where John Key has miscalculated his stance on the anti smacking referendum. If the belief that pissed off voters would automatically go to ACT he’s forgotten that Winston will be strongly reminding those voters of this;
“Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill, Third Reading; Noes; New Zealand First 3 (Mark, Paraone, Peters); United Future 1 (Turner); ACT New Zealand 2; Independents: Copeland, Field.”
Keys stance on various issues has probably allowed Winston an opening, IMO he’s thrown the prick a lifeline
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
Far more people voted for NZ1 than did for ACT. Winnie knows his audience and how to dog-whistle as well as the Nats or Labour.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
What ever happend to that Chinese man (bill Liu?)who is being investigated (friends of MP’s on both sides of the house. That gets as much coverage as the referendum aftermath does on radio nz.
[Ignored File]
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10582518
Also can a party like NZ First succeed without cheating? Presumably the others small parties can but the more they get the more they do?
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
I think Patrick Starr is right. I for one, will be making no comment at all at No Minster on Winston Peters and I hope all my colleagues will do likewise. He is a venal crook of the worst order for whom the greatest gift right now is publicity.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
I think Peters is done, he may get back into parliament, but as a major player he is finished.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
In reading the Sunday Star (hardly) Times (to try and sell more papers) on the RISE of Peters suggests to me that the Editor/Owners should look more closely at its other repetitive writers – what drivel this paper now spews – look at them.
Firstly the editorial writer then Rosmary Mcleod, Finlay Macdonald, Michael Laws and Rod Oram. What a bunch of no hopers.
Can’t wait for prepaid subs to end. Have already cancelled the other one for its fetishes(and told them so in no uncertain terms).
When will we get a balanced paper, without the open socialist drivel.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
“but as a major player he is finished” – pretty brave call? – If he gets over 5% at the expense of the Nats he could be a major player alright
Winston is like a weed that should have been dug out at the roots, Trouble is now Key has provided the ideal growing conditions
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 2:46 pm
Peters will flick the scab off every hot button issue he can get his hands on. Find a prejudice and he is your man.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
To paraphrase the untrue slogan of the execrable Sunday so-called documentary programme:
“Where there is an itch, Winston will find it and scratch it.”
He still commands a following. And TVNZ new can show footage of old, walking-framers tottering into his meetings, but Peters will fill gaps left by the other parties. He will be the repository of those feeling betrayed and frustrated by the main parties.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 3:14 pm
Patrick Starr (3048) Vote: 2 0 Says:
August 30th, 2009 at 11:44 am
“This is where John Key has miscalculated his stance on the anti smacking referendum. If the belief that pissed off voters would automatically go to ACT he’s forgotten that Winston will be strongly reminding those voters of this;
“Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill, Third Reading; Noes; New Zealand First 3 (Mark, Paraone, Peters); United Future 1 (Turner); ACT New Zealand 2; Independents: Copeland, Field.”
Keys stance on various issues has probably allowed Winston an opening”
Absoultely concurr. I warned my Nat mp Nick Smith this week that the opportunity for a populist anti-nanyism movement to arise is huge and that W P will exploit this even as John Key’s ” I’ll die in a ditch over this” carcass lays twitching. Who is pulling J K’s strings – what deals with which devil has gone on for him to utter this sentiment?
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
“I think parliament needs a maverick (especially under MMP) as behaviour is too tied up in deal making between parties.”
I think that maverick is now Hone Harawira. Thumbs up apparently
Anyone given him a lift yet??
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
“When will we get a balanced paper, without the open socialist drivel.”
If there is one in NZ, REdd would have advised us.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
Once upon time, Peters had me and many others convinced he was the Messiah. Now I just look upon him with disdain as a common thief, charlatan, trickster and conman, which he truly is.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
rogerb. I’ll bet Smith was dismissive of you just like he is dismissive of anyone putting another view of Global Warming to him. He is about as much good as Peters. Been troughing for most of his life and done not much else. Long past his use by date.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
NZ First hunts for new face
Lyle McMahon lyle@thesun.co.nz
30 Aug 2009
The search has started to find the new person to stand as New Zealand First’s candidate in the Tauranga electorate at the 2011 election.
Roy Townhill, New Zealand First Tauranga electorate chairman, says Winston Peters will not stand for Tauranga at the next election and the search has already started to find another New Zealand First candidate.
“We have already approached two or three people and asked them to consider standing,” says Roy.
New Zealand First could have a new Tauranga candidate by Christmas now that it has been confirmed Winston Peters will not stand for the electorate again.
He was not prepared to say which individuals were approached to stand as New Zealand First’s candidate in Tauranga but hopes the new candidate will be announced before Christmas.
Vote:He believes it would be unfair to single out one person and says not all of the people approached are from Tauranga.
Members of New Zealand First were in Hamilton yesterday attending the party’s AGM and exploring options to get the party back on track before the 2011 general election.
Roy says he and other New Zealand First members want to make a change to the rule in the party’s constitution which stipulates that all list candidates must also stand for an electorate.
“I don’t think the leader, which is Winston, should stand anywhere for the simple reason that it’s unfair to the electorate because he is going around the country helping other candidates and while he’s doing that, he’s not doing justice in his own electorate.
He should be number one on the list and not stand as a candidate,” says Roy.
Winston Peters told TVNZ’s Q+A Programme this morning he hoped to lead the party into the 2011 election but said that would be a decision for the New Zealand First organisation.
“When I first got to Parliament I wasn’t in Parliament and I believe we can do it again,” said Winston.
Roy is confident New Zealand First can make a comeback at the next election if the party goes about it the right way.
“There is enough support around the country but we have to organise ourselves properly and we have to raise the funds,” says Roy.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
ah-ha..!..marsden..you are a firster..eh..?
no surprises there..!
..eh..?
your choleric-old-school irrationality comes more into focus..
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Billyborker you dork. At least one election in recent times NZF only got into Parliament because Winston won Tauranga by a few votes. They polled under 5%.
Hell, I would do away with MMP tomorrow – but you can’t love it when your guy gets in and hate it when he doesn’t.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Luckily, Winston assured Stevedore at g.blog that Winston’s policies were “still as relevant as ever”.
Yeah, racism, misogyny, all still as relevant as ever. Oh, and New Zealand Fist may have a new one – the right to beat your kids – still as relevant as ever!
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Key has opened the door for Winston’s return with his stance on on s59.
Key is clearly not a stupid man.
Hopefully Key will make it an election issue.
If not, then he’s just another Helen, and National deserve to lose in 2011 on that basis alone.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 8:56 pm
Smacking is not beating, Toad.
If you can’t tell the difference, stay far away from kids.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
“What a sad irrelevance” is in fact Winston Raymond Peters of no fixed abode actually is. Who cares? Why do the media interview him? My great auntie knows more about stuff than that failed lawyer and leader of the Peter Brown Party ever will.
Vote:August 30th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
“So this leaves a Maori flag. Good God, how pitiful. The fact one day a year a Maori flag may fly on Waitangi Day alongside the New Zealand flag. What a sad irrelevance that this now seems to be his major issue.”
Much as I hate to appear anywhere the same side of an issue as Winnie, I have to say it’s a fairly large issue. In fact, I reckon it breaches Artcle 1 of the Treaty of Waitangi; ironic on the day of it’s signing! It’s very well for past treaty greviances to be addressed, but if the rest of the country is to be held to account, the least Maori can do is to uphold the treaty themselves. In fact I’d go as far as to say, if Maori won’t uphold the treaty, why should the rest of us?
Vote:August 31st, 2009 at 12:50 pm
Sorry DPF you are wrong. There are specific allowances made for Maori (and I think PI) to get into Auckland Med School with lower grades than would be required by non-Maori. I understand that there is only one real university in NZ and Auckland isn’t it, but for the purposes of proving the institutional racism in this country of ours I am happy to include it here.
Vote: