Bradford threatened to quit if Greens are not left-wing enough
October 11th, 2009 at 10:01 am by David FarrarAnthony Hubbard has a nice exclusive in the SST:
MP SUE Bradford threatened to resign from the Greens if they became a swing party which could go with either National or Labour, party sources have revealed.
Bradford’s resignation last month was not just because she was disappointed at her defeat by Metiria Turei for the job of woman co-leader, as Bradford claimed.
It also reflected her disillusionment with what she saw as greater readiness by co-leaders Turei and Russel Norman to deal with National. Bradford, said a party source, “wanted to stay staunch”, and wanted the Green Party to remain left-wing.
I don’t think Sue had much to worry about there. Of course her definition of left-wing may be very different to most.
When Sue resigned, I said it indicated that things were not too harmonious in the Greens, and certain supporters howled at me for daring to suggest this.
Bradford’s resignation follows a serious disagreement with the party over strategy and ideology. During the campaign for co-leadership, according to party sources, Bradford was accused of attempting to blackmail the Greens with her threat of resignation.
Blackmail is a strong word. Was that another MP who used it?
It is understood she told the caucus in either late 2007 or early 2008 that she would quit the party if it went further down the track as a swing party, ready to go with either of the two big parties. Her resignation was simply following through on that threat, a source said.
But they never mentioned this at the press conference.
The list MP was originally a Marxist radical and spent many years in militant activity for the unemployed. Although she abandoned Marxism, she never quit being a radical.
I thought she was more Maoist than Marxist. One has to keep the different communist sects distinct. Locke and Norman are also former Marxists.
She and a minority in the party fought the trend to widen the appeal of the Greens to include a broad cross-section of voters, including National supporters.
If the Greens only take votes off Labour, it doesn’t help the left a lot.
Anyway maybe Sue will elaborate in her valedictory speech to Parliament.
Related posts:
- Bradford on the Greens
- Herald on Bradford
- Greens abandon Bradford, she claims
- Bradford on Greens in 1990s
October 11th, 2009 at 10:10 am
I thought she was more Maoist than Marxist. One has to keep the different communist sects distinct. Locke and Norman are also former Marxists.
Maoists are Marxists. What they are not is Trotskytes. Since Sue actually stood up for the Permanent Revolution Group (trotters) against Anderton while she was in New Labour, I don’t think she ever was a dogmatic maoist.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:12 am
>I thought she was more Maoist than Marxist.
Don’t these people feel ashamed that they supported ideologies that are evil? There would be an excuse if they were children at the time, but once they turned 15 or so then they should know not to bully other children, shop lift, or support systems of politics that have caused the violent deaths of tens of millions of people and plunged over a billion people in to human rights-free poverty.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:20 am
John gets his way.
Sue goes her own way.
NZ slides further the wrong way.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Good riddance to Sue Bradford. I have utter contempt for her and what she stands for. There are pregnant mothers binge drinking smoking drugs living in violent relationships and not feeding their kids…just have a look at the Kahui twins as a good example….and all she could come up with was an anti smacking law. What a joke.
The Greens have been one big lie. Branding themselves as “Green” but all they actually are are a social engineering party.
They now might actually stand a chance with out the likes of Sue Bradford.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Good old Sue, protester to the end. But what is the point of being a member of parliament if your goal in life is to protest. Being an MP with all its restrictions is to make things happen preferably being in Government. The Greens have a choice they either support National or Labour if they want something done. She has the goal of making a Labour Government very left wing. She might have succeeded but an incoming National Government would have sorted that out and Labour will have been tossed aside. NZ is not a left wing country and Labour Parties that are successful are not either – look at Australia.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:45 am
“Maoists are Marxists.”
They’re all Progressives. ..and it is the Progressives who have destroyed New Zealand. But they’re not only in the Greens. They’re in Labour National ACT and most of the minor parties. They’re even dominant in that silly little cult who call themselves the Libertarians.
Looking for the ideas and the people who have brought NZ to the edge of the abyss?
Look no further than the Progressives.
Bradford has gone but those ideas at the core of her political ideology remain as strong as ever.
The biggest problem NZ faces right now is that those ideas are as dominant in National as they are in Labour.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:50 am
tvb – That statement just underscores the problem IMO. When the state approaches 50% of GDP you can be sure we’re a socialist country – and have been for quite some time.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 10:57 am
One less fanatic in parliament. How she lasted as long as she did I’ll never know – It was “my way or the high way”
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Agreed GS, I like your analysis of the state as how much of a nation’s GDP it sucks up. Research has shown the best level to be between 13-18% IIRC:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP
So the parasites in Wellington suck out nearly 37% of everything that is prodeuced by hard workers, businesses, the self-employed etc. A simply massive amount. And imagine how much bigger the pie (i.e. GDP) would be if more of that was left in the hands of those that produced it, with all the potential for extra investment, R&D, employment etc.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:16 am
NZ 36.5%
Australia 30.5%
Pay more for less. Says it all really.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Agreed Herman.
Vote:The only countries were are really behind are commie dictatorships like Cuba, and all the socialist european states like Sweden and France. Pretty sad really. And compare our record on economic growth, innovation, enterprise and excellence with Aussie and the US, which we are way out in front of.
October 11th, 2009 at 11:21 am
” Locke and Norman are also former Marxists.”
I always thought that was the case. Somehow they seem to have lost their sense of humour though. Which one used to be Harpo and which one used to be Groucho? Or is that too obvious a question due to the ginga gene?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Very funny johnboy – suppose they could do a movie called “The House With Shadowy Funding”
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Rather see a remake of ‘Duck Soup’ with Trev as Trentino.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Will she go back to leading the oxymoronic (and plain moronic) “Unemployed Workers Union”?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
The Greens have just about used up their “trustworthyness” with this revelation.
Now, more cover-up lies exposed. This along with being sprung for their double-dip rent rort, their subsequent panic sale of the scene-of-the-crime Wellington rental properties – their claim to be the self-appointed “moral compass” of the NZ Parliament is exposed as total bullshit.
The cover-up lies that have so effortlessly slipped past the lips of Ms Metiria Turei (Greens co-leader) the last few weeks expose her lack of trustworthyness too.
The Slimey Greens have chosen their co-Leader (fem) well.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
In a way this shows Bradford to be principled (albeit in a bizarre way).
Contrast her actions with this question: “Is anyone planning to quit the National party because they are not ‘right wing’ enough?”
… (thought not)
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Maoist or Marxist what does it really matter none of them are the full quid, they are just plain evil bastards as far as I’m concerned. Would happily donate money to send the feeble minded Bradford and her dipstick mates to a real commie state, one way of course. There the fruitcakes can study their ideology in it’s full glory, be good to see them get what they wish for.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Anthony Hubbard’s story is correct.
In fact I blogged about Sue Bradford vetoing the Greens from moving towards a National-friendly election position a few weeks ago, in my blog post on the chapter that I had written earlier this year about the Greens’ 2008 election campaign. See: http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2009/09/the-greens-2008-election-campaign.html
The relevant part of this chapter/blog is below:
“the Greens’ long running quandary of how to orientate towards the different blocs of possible coalition of parties was of particular importance in 2008…. many in the Greens were keen to increase the party’s leverage by repositioning the party as a more independent party that might play a stronger role in determining which of the two major parties got to form the government. In ideological terms this meant shifting the party out of the left-flank party status that some felt ghettoized the party. Traditional Green Party slogans were pushed internally to justify an ideological reposition – such as: “We’re neither left nor right, but right out in front’… To create more leverage the party had to indicate and justify the possibility that it could jettison support for Labour, leading to a National government in some form or another…. Greens Internal party dissent, however, caused this strategy to be wound back in 2008. Many within the Greens regarded any talk of supporting the National Party as a step too far. It became obvious to the leadership that Sue Bradford was not prepared to continue as an MP through to the end of the parliamentary term if her party went into the election with any prospect of assisting the formation of a National government. The Green caucus therefore decided that it had no option but to align itself with the Labour Party in some form, albeit with the Greens preaching their political independence.”
I’d also note, that Chris Trotter has recently blogged on this too.
Bryce
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Another nail in the Luddite’s coffin.
They fought long to disguise its cozy rental agreements and their radical agenda when comes to destroying bussines and returning NZ to the Stone Age. Now, the loathsome Bradford has delivered a blow (self-inflicted, I may add) that exposes the Green Party leadership and its naive followers for the “watermelons” they are.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Len Brown thinks Sue Bradford is “a great leader” and would relish working with Sue Bradford on the new Auckland Council.
So what do the Greens know that Len Brown doesn’t?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Far left parties love to split. I suspect it all comes from being so enamoured of the postures and rhetoric of revolution, as soon as a disagreement occurs, it’s a chance to don the beret and strike a heroic pose as you cut all ties with the past
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
“So what do the Greens know that Len Brown doesn’t?”
How painful it is to commit seppuku when you are supping at the trough!
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
” Locke and Norman are also former Marxists.”
Russel had his roots in the socialist movement, doesnt make him a Marxist.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
………..and the first little drone arrives to defend the cause
Vote:(must’ve been a big bong night at the melons)
October 11th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Quite right PIA remember the bolsheviks and the menshiviks. —-Jimbos alliance before the great schism. (still kept the funding though) —–and last but not least the constant battle between Rick, Neil and Viv of that wonderful series “The Young Ones”. ——-The only true radicals the world has ever seen. ——-God Jerzy Bolowsky was a filthy capitalist rack rent asshole if ever I saw one!!!!!
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
“Russel had his roots in the socialist movement”
Which page of the Kama Sutra is that movement on Tautology?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:19 pm
“Is anyone planning to quit the National party because they are not ‘right wing’ enough?”
Are you Mr. Lineberry, planning to quit the Libertarians because you’re an Obama loving little commie who thinks nothing of bludging off the effort of Mr. Farrar, who built this blog through hard work and persistence, probably two qualities you know nothing off. Thought not.
Take your unnecessary links to your one horse boring self infatuated little gossip sheet elsewhere loser.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Red, play the ball not the man. If Atilla the Hun had asked that question it would still be relevant.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
“Red, play the ball not the man.”
You write what you want and I’ll write what I want. Keep your damn school teacher commands to yourself.
(The little bludging sleaze is not really a man anyway, and the question has no relevance or reason what so ever. Its just more holier than thou bullshit from a bunch of arse lickimng cultists.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
Red, far from a ‘damn school teacher command’, what I suggested is normal, civil behaviour.
An adult response to me might have been ‘yeah, fair enough. but i get pissed off with …’.
Instead you behave like a kid that needs a school teacher. Which is a shame, because when you do stick to the ball you often knock it out of the park.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
So I’ll answer Elijah’s question. I don not belong to any party, but National have lost my vote because they’re not right wing enough. They’ve moved left since being elected and that was, and remains, not what I believe is best for the future of NZ.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:46 pm
“Red, far from a ‘damn school teacher command’, what I suggested is normal, civil behaviour. ”
What you suggest is the usual lily livered capitulation to the ideologues of the left. Look get this. I will not follow down the path, the path that you built, that has allowed this country to become totally dominated by leftists. To the extent where they even control our culture.
You be as “civil” as you want. I do not make any personal appeals to you as to how I want you to behave. Where the fuck were you when this little coward was alleging I was a wife beater? Nowhere. The only focus you have is spineless capitulation to the social mores of the left under the misnomer of ‘civility”. Take your PC crap and shove it.
The question has no relevance or logic. Plenty of people have left the National Party for lots of reasons., Don Brash is just one example. Just as people will go on leaving or joining all parties for a myriad of reasons.
The point is that Mr. Lineberry postures here as having the high moral ground when all he really shows up here for is to link to his site. He has no high moral ground. He’s an unprincipled bludger off the hard work and reputation of David Farrar, especially when Elijah often disparages Kiwiblog on other sites.
You go on kowtowing to Progressives and hypocrites and the twisted social mores they attempt to enforce. Just don’t ask others to assume your own submissive posture. I’m sick of losing.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:47 pm
“I do not belong to any party, but National have lost my vote because they’re not right wing enough. ”
my feelings exactly GS
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:51 pm
“I’m sick of losing.”
Well, maybe you could stop acting like a loser. Wouldn’t promoting positive ideas be more likely to get somewhere than griping, triping and sniping.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Good to know you are principled, Getstaffed (and I followed your link and found your website most interesting); I wish more chaps were like you.
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
And Bradford shows just what a falacy the whole greens party ethos is. The enviroment is not about conservatives or libs. it is not about progressives or anything. In fact left wing governments have done more to harm the planet than any capitalist government has ever done. Can you imagine Obama or even Bush ordering that every starling and sparrow be killed? or whole villages be destroyed no matter that some of them had artifacts and structures dating back to the ming dynasty?
The greens in NZ have no connection with the enviroment. VI/Greenfly and toad can jump up and down as much as they like, but it simply does not. I know a number of greens very well (good mates) Jim and Deb started off by believing in the enviroment. Now it is about political orientation. And I can accept that. if the left wing governments around the world had actually proved themselves to b environmentally minded. But come with me on a trip around the world and I will show you the biggest environmental disasters… and they are all in left wing countries. Bar none.
I challenge any-one here to show me a bigger environmental mess than Chernobyl, The five dams or Mao’s culling of a species.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
There you are GS. That paragon of civility, Pete George who claims all fathers before Progressivism were wife beaters and that they promoted it as a cultural right, is with you. You must be correct.
When are you going to wake up to the fact that these duplicitous deceitful and cowardly scum only use different language?? Their true meanings are always twice as vicious and nasty as anything I ever say. Snap out of your PC coma for fuck’s sake.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
“I wish more chaps were like you.”
I’ll bet you do.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Elijah do you have a brother who stars as a character in the ‘Harry Enfield and Chums’ TV show? (Its on UKTV).
Vote:He is called Tim Nice but Dim. You sound just like him so I just thought you may be related
October 11th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Damn right Vanzyl. Bradford didn’t leave on a matter of principle as her defender Elijah implies. She left simply because she couldn’t turn the party to the political orientation that she wanted. An orientation that threatens the environment more than protects it.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
“who claims all fathers before Progressivism were wife beaters and that they promoted it as a cultural right”
That’s a very distorted interpretation of what I said and I suspect you know it.
It was common and legal to beat wives, the police ignored “domestics” as the business of the couple, as did a lot of others. So it was a normal part of culture. That doesn’t mean all or most men were wife beaters, just that it was generally accepted or ignored.
You criticise EL for pushing his own barrow, well, that’s all you seem to try and do, spout your own extreme ideas and try to shout down and abuse anyone you disagree with. You use this blog as much as anyone else does, and you abuse it and others on it more than most.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
“just that it was generally accepted or ignored.”
A vicious and cowardly lie.
Where are you now Getstaffed?
Are you going to be kissing this despicable liar’s arse too??
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:24 pm
The statistics and court evidence suggest that domestic violence is still generally accepted by a significant proportion of people. Most perpetrators of domestic violence grew up seeing it as normal. It is well known that it repeats generation after generation.
The police and courts view it far more seriously now, that is one reason why arrest and conviction statistics have been rising.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:31 pm
The Greens have a conundrum. They subscribe to and preach the pseudo science / religion of environmentalism that is really just a front for communism/ socialism. That is why the party attracts false environmentalists like Bradford and Norman, who are really just Marxists and Progressives whose primary objective is the extinction of capitalism.
Its a deceit that does not work and is never going to work, because caring for the environment takes money, and you cannot generate that prime requirement while you subscribe to leftism, the ideology that has brought poverty and suffering everywhere it has ever reigned supreme. Vanzyl has given enough examples above to show the truth of this.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
“Former” Marxist, aren’t we being a little premature here?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
“The police and courts view it far more seriously now, that is one reason why arrest and conviction statistics have been rising.”
Another yellow lie. All crimes of violence (wife beating and otherwise) are on the rise because you and like Progressives have gradually destoyed this country’s moral foundation.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 3:46 pm
I have also blogged about Bradford’s distaste for the Right of politics having a bearing on her resignation – which was further fuelled by Turei’s elevation to the leadership – towards the right of past direction.
Her problem was that, unlike the Maori Party and the current Green leadership, she had a distaste for the Right of politics, picked a certain battle at the wrong time and lied about it.
The Maori Party has filled the gap that the Greens were aiming for. It is neither left nor right, but it is out in front. Its time for the Greens to have a bunch of MPs that have an emphasis on being pro-Green ( in whatever shape or form) – as opposed to anti-National, as Bradford is. Had Bradford realised that it is possible to be pro-green without being anti-National, perhaps she may not have resigned.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
“..I challenge any-one here to show me a bigger environmental mess than Chernobyl, The five dams or Mao’s culling of a species..”
how the dairy industry has totally fucked our waterways/environment.,?
how’s that for starters..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
“..So what do the Greens know that Len Brown doesn’t?..”
well..bhatnagar..as you well know..
probbably how well bradford worked with mp’s from all parties..
and how she ‘gets things done’..
(how’s that for starters..?)
btw..didn’t you crash and burn with your desire to close suburban bars early..eh..?
now..bradford wouldn’t have done that..
‘cos she is an ‘operator’..
maybe you should beg her for a master-class..?
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
rouge-enticer said..
“..Where the fuck were you when this little coward was alleging I was a wife beater? ..”
for one who hands it out liberally..
you can’t take it..eh..?
sorta fits with your hiding/snivelling behind a pretend-name..eh..?
rouge-enticer..so staunch in his beliefs..
he won’t even stand behind his (fevered) words..
so..
..meh..!
..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Philu, the bradford got her laws in for one reason, labour needed to work with them to get the majority vote. If Fields never was caught, the anti smacking law wouldn’t have been law. Also regarding dairy farming worse than Chernobyl……I guess you must be taking some good drugs, mate because I haven’t drunk a glass of milk that will kill me nor tens of thousands of others. If you stop toking up there, mate for minute and think about what you said, perhaps you will understand the dairy problem and there is a problem I admit that can be remedied by making certain changes that aren’t that expensive. The greens could help the farmers and it is being done with the runoff. Instead, bradford antagonizes. I think we should ignore her and then hear about how she was found dead in her flat ten years from now from an overdose.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
you’re quite ‘tacky’..aren’t you jack.p..
(why that last line..?..if not as an example of what you are..?..)
and if you really think this is the last you have heard of bradford..?
dream on ..!..tiger..!
and bradford is light years from being a vegan..hassling farmers for fucking most of our country..eh..?
she’s a fishing/hunting/meat-eating/rodeo sorta gal..
and chernobyl was/is localised..
haven’t you heard what percentage of our waterways have been fucked by greedy/dirty-farmers..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Do you want everyone went back to the sort of civility, good morals and manners, understanding and co-operation that you are always demonstrating Red?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Just a slight digression, but I understand that Keith Locke was quite the Pol Pot groupie back in the day.
I’d be keen to know whether systematically executing dissidents with blunt instruments because you’re out of ammunition is Maoist, Marxist or both.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
“Another yellow lie. All crimes of violence (wife beating and otherwise) are on the rise because you and like Progressives have gradually destoyed this country’s moral foundation.”
What a crock Red, you can provide no link whatsoever. A more closely linked parrallel would with the institution of neliberal reform. Crime began to shoot up as proponents of neoliberalism/monetarism experimented with little regard on New Zealand’s education, health and many other sectors.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
“What a crock Red, you can provide no link whatsoever. A more closely linked parrallel would with the institution of neliberal reform. Crime began to shoot up as proponents of neoliberalism/monetarism experimented with little regard on New Zealand’s education, health and many other sectors.”
Oh dear..I hope you are taking the piss…..not one of these people…e.g
Question: Why are New Zealand’s crime rates so high?
Answer: Roger Douglas! Ruth Richardson, Don Brash etc!
Question: Why are so many NZ kids in poverty?
Answer: Roger Douglas! Ruth Richardson and the mother of all budgets!
etc etc…
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
tvb notes:
There have always been restrictions on MPs – though Labour enforced a strict rule on it’s Members which effectively meant expulsion if they went against the line agreed in caucus. Which is why Labour PMs have always had ridiculously large Executives, stuffed with Under Secretaries and Ministers outside Cabinet, so that backbenchers were always outnumbered by those bound by Cabinet collective responsibility. That’s why there’s no equivalent to, say, a Minogue or even a Peters in Labour’s history.
But the restrictions have become more stringent and more anti-democratic since the advent of MMP. Ironically it’s the Greens who have the most democratic list-ranking procedure, but there’s clearly still the mindset in the party that its MPs are either “with it or against it” and independent thought is to be discouraged.
Sue Bradford ought to have had to put her ideas in front of a number of her fellow NZers (aka an electorate) and had them voted upon. If they couldn’t raise support amongst a few thousand people, then they had no place being forced through Parliament and imposed upon millions.
However if she had been elected in that way, then her right to espouse those beliefs, and to try to convince other MPs she was correct, shouldn’t be constrained by misplaced “party loyalty”.
Equally, even though she clearly convinced the leadership of the Labour Party that her ideas on smacking were correct, no conservative-leaning Labour MP ought to have been forced to vote against his or her conscience and support it just because their Leader told them to.
We’d have a very different Parliament, and very different laws, if every MP was beholden to an electorate before a party, but where the very concept of a party was an anachronism – a refuge for MPs who actually like being told what to do – and the majority were there representing us, not some outmoded 18th century construct.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
what’s inaccurate about that..?..nckb..?
it can all be statistically tracked..
and why is it that countries with higher taxes/good social support…have the happiest/most content citizens..
whereas the other side of the coin..is freemarket-heaven/dog-eat-dog america..
(a country system on the point/edge of breaking..
are we seeing stories about tent-cities of homeless-people in those higer-taxes/real social/family support countries..?
no..we aren’t..
why on earth are you still advocating a clearly failed/broken system/culture..?
do you not believe your own eyes/ears..?
( i would add that the abject failure of labour/clark to undo those evils..is forever their stain..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
“still advocating a clearly failed/broken system/culture..?”
Of government intervention, socialism, and totalitarianism?
Philu, the US is turning into a socialist basketcase under your mate Obama, are you actually calling Obama’s America “dog-eat-dog” capitalism?
Your argument turns to mush in two seconds.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:53 pm
nickb – and your explanation?
Vote:Oh wait, you’ve got to go and practice your lines first – efficiency good – government bad – what a bloody genius!!
Get your head out of your ass and look at the emerging trends.
October 11th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
“the US is turning into a socialist basketcase”
It did so well under the GW string pullers didn’t it, where the big dogs could eat anything they liked. It was a basketcase when Obama took over.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
“and bradford is light years from being a vegan..hassling farmers for fucking most of our country..eh..?
she’s a fishing/hunting/meat-eating/rodeo sorta gal..”
“”(—-Geeze phil how would a vegan like you know that she eats meat eh——-had a scoff has she”—-’Whoar eh”)
”’( Cor —rodeo rider too eh–nudge—nudge –(“wink —wink”) eh–nods as good as a wank to a blind cowboy eh”"”"))
(Johnboy.sheep.walton)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
no nckb..your arguments are mush..
how about focussing on that ‘happiest citizens’ formula/question..
tell us how those ‘happy-citizens’ in those countries are deluding themselves..?
and would be much better off with a permanent pool of tent-city-dwellers..
how about just answering that question..?
why are they so much more happy..?
(and try not to talk in just labels/slogans..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Oh, now I understand your and pilhu’s argument Loco! Thanks!
Throw more of MY money at criminals and parasites, because the problem will then be solved! Because after 9 years of big government spending, high taxation, and throwing billions of dollars of cash at welfare, education, and health, Labour has now solved violent crime and pove…err, never mind
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
“and would be much better off with a permanent pool of tent-city-dwellers..”
Yes, it’s a shame so many Americans have lost their home, especially so that the new President aided and abetted the US housing boom, reckless banking practises, and subsequent subprime crisis, in the guise of the Community Reinvestment Act.
Please enlighten me phil, what party was the President from who signed it into law?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
nickb – No I haven’t suggested any Keynesian policy alternatives on this blog, so I don;t know where you got that from, in fact I prefer some of the emerging heterodox economic theories.
Also, those nine years of Labour was simply a continuance of the neoliberal paradigm, no real effort was made to adjust from the neoliberal model, in fact international conditions make it difficult to enact a major shift in economic thoery. Labour didn’t put in any real effort to adapt the mecahnisms of the economy, they simply tinkered about to try and mitigate the worst inequalities.
Vote:You are an idiot voice piece for the echochamber that is the problem in this country, at least many commentators on the right have some ideas and beliefs they can put forward and defend and they have every right to do so and good on them. You are nothing like them, instead you bleat the same old regurgutated lines. I am bored of you.
October 11th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
what a strange wee person you are…johnoldman..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:14 pm
and..can’t answer that ‘happy’ question..?
eh nckb..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
yawn…I’m being attacked by a wet lettuce leaf and a lifelong beneficiary. Should probably get out of the house and do something more entertaining.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
yeah..best you just run away..eh..?
as you clearly have no answers to very straightforward questions..
meh..!
(don’t try that schtick again..eh..?
you’ll only embarrass yourself..
..again..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
Like when I questioned you why you can’t work, when hundreds of thousands of parents have worked and raised children without bludging?
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
So ‘play the ball not the man’ is arse kissing is it? Sorry, but I don’t believe anyone should have to deliver broadside ad hominem attacks in order to demonstrate not kissing asses. Different styles I guess. Like I suggested red, I agree with you pretty much 100% when you’re on topic. Case and point …
… which is a bullseye.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
These stupid socialist dicks always deny the evidence, or say there is none to support the contention that it is their assault on morality that is the cause of crime. In all the years I have been writing on the internet, their lying refrain has never changed.
You can give them as much evidence as you want. Such as the graph on this page that shows that socialist countries where (according to fuckwits like Loco Burro) everyone is happy and content, and crime is therefore unnecessary, feature high in the stats.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita
For example oil rich Norway, that has one of the most generous welfare systems in the world , and Denmark, Holland and France are high in crime and violent crime, yet still these brain damaged lying leftist propaganda agents will never cease their drum beat of lies.
Proving one thing only, and that is that there is no cure for an adult life spent submerged in leftism. The brain damage is irreparable.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
“”yeah..best you just run away..eh..?
as you clearly have no answers to very straightforward questions..”‘
“—-((“:”" still waiting for that answer———–***too the question I hear you say——”")))—”
”’—{{what meat did sexy suzie scoff at cowboy phils rodeo——-meh——(eh—)”"}}——
“”Was it rare beef —–or old burned sausage”"——–eh”" ( whoar) “”
(Johnboy.sheep.walton)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
stuffed..wd u like me to act as a counsellor in your obviously troubled relationship with the rouge-enticer..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
just confirming that ‘strangness’..eh johnoldman..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:43 pm
“”"Better answer than that reqd ——-phil—(whoar)”"”
(Johnboy .sheep.walton)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Redbaiter, I agree with you on most things, but on this you are clearly being disingenous.
Ruth Richardson, Roger Douglas, the Business Roundtable, the Act & National parties, and big business are the reason for poverty and violent crimes.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Amazing stats btw Red.
NZ is more crime ridden than most of the basketcase Asian and South American nations.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Your propoganda is laughable Red, and foolish, don’t put words in my mouth, where did I say every one was happy under socialism, when did I say I supported socialism.
Vote:You are an idiot with no clue about the world around him, just living in your paranoid fantasies and slagging off anyone who disagrees with you. I respect when people stand for something – you stand for nothing but bile and filth. Continue to prostitute yourself to your totalitarian transnational overlords. enjoy
October 11th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
I suspect why we are virtually at the top and Colombia is virtually at the bottom is because here we report crime to the noddy police and it gets recorded and fuck all gets done (because we are not allowed to kill the guilty shits) whereas in Colombia (where they have an enlighted public) they just go round and kill the perp (and his family as well down to the grandchildren) and no bastard talks to the cops.
There are lies, damned lies and then statistics.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
“There are lies, damned lies and statistics”
Ha, nice one
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Phil, If 10% of the population was supporting the other 90%, you would probably find that around 90% of people would class themselves as being pretty damn happy.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
haha exactly
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
“Proving one thing only, and that is that there is no cure for an adult life spent submerged in leftism. The brain damage is irreparable.”
Yeh but how does it start in the first place RB? That’s the mystery.
Some of these guys can even string sentences together and yet, they’re lefties. It’s a real conundrum.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
Yeah, like you would rather live in Colombo Johnboy? Or the great icon of capitalism, the US, were crime and poverty are non-existent?
Nick, you are being disingenuous trying to blame the economic mess on Obama, that was handed to him on a plate – but I agree that the it is questionable whether the plate is being handled very well.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
so ..sector..better what we have here..eh..?
where 10% just get richer and richer..
on the backs of the other 90%..?
a 90% that dosen’t have that same degree of ‘security’..
as those citizens in those ‘happier’ countries..?
(and btw..the other stats..(child poverty anyone..?..)..crime..etc..etc..
are also much lower in those ‘happier’ countries..
go figure..!
..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:19 pm
In Indonesia there is dire poverty. If one went by the credo of the communists, ie that poverty is the root cause of crime, then one would expect Indonesia to have a crime rate much higher than that of the socialist nations.
Check its position on these three graphs-
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_ass_percap-crime-assaults-per-capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rob_percap-crime-robberies-per-capita
The truth is that traditional morality is the yardstick by which most Indonesians live, and this is why there is such a great difference between crime rates there and countries like New Zealand where amoral Progressives dominate the culture.
“Poverty causes crime” is just another example of the numerous lies the socialists will never stop repeating in order to advance their sick obsession with political power.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Don’t get me wrong here Baiter it is just that the fuckin touchy feely countries like us create stats to go into these tables and the shit arse countries don’t so hence we look bad but we all know thats shit or most of our escapees would be headed for that tropical pardise (with a low crime rate) yes Colombia.
Still I challenge the prats who come up with our stats to categorise the ethnicity of our crims. They bloody well do it for everything else but surprise,surprise it never comes up when you raped an old lady.
ie: ‘Wiremu the nobel laureate is of Ngati Raukawa heritage’
Whereas: ‘Rangi the serial grannie rapist just sentenced to 25years non parole is of Ngai Tahu heritage’.—never appears
Stats are really shit.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
“..“Proving one thing only, and that is that there is no cure for an adult life spent submerged in leftism. The brain damage is irreparable.”
fuck you talk shit..rouge-enticer..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
“Stats are really shit.”
The graph Red points to shows that the crime rate in Zimbabwe is about 1/4 what it is here. Colombia is 1/20th. There’s a couple of places you might rather live in.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
“countries like New Zealand where amoral Progressives dominate the culture”
RB, apathy is the dominant political culture in this and in all western democracies.
The vast vast majority live under the illusion that all is well and its left to an outspoken minority who give a shit about governance to fight it out between themselves. Mostly that happens under the radar since most people care more about sport and movies than what’s going on in Wgtn.
The last bunch of liars were immoral not amoral. This bunch, jury’s still out. So far, pluses and minuses.
Fact is though, society won’t be fixed unless and until, the vast vast majority wake the fuck up and understand they need to pay attention to politics not just during the election campaign.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
“There’s a couple of places you might rather live in.”
Read the post you fuckwit before spouting crap.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
“This bunch, jury’s still out. So far, pluses and minuses.”
That’s how I see it too, too soon to judge.
“Fact is though, society won’t be fixed unless and until, the vast vast majority wake the fuck up and understand they need to pay attention to politics not just during the election campaign.”
Has that ever happened anywhere? Maybe the majority of the plebs simple don’t care about politics, never have and never will.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
“Fact is though, society won’t be fixed unless and until, the vast vast majority wake the fuck up and understand they need to pay attention to politics not just during the election campaign.”
Maybe, but I am convinced that the main reason we keep going down hill is that we fail to realise the real problem is the Progressive ideas that are shared by both National and Labour and every minor party. Its why politics in this country and every western country where Progressive ideas dominate is like grappling with a column of smoke.
Its why National is Labour2 and Labour is National2. Why the English Conservatives are the same as Labour and why the Republicans are little different to the Democrats.
We will not return to a civil society until the ideas of the Progressives are thoroughly rejected, and if this rejection is manifested by some political party then well enough, but it really has to come from the hearts of the people.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
“National and Labour and every minor party.”
That’s all of them. So nothing in sight for major change.
I agree that real change should come from the hearts of the people – will the people ever feel strongly enough to do anything? If we are in fact “going downhill” it isn’t badly enough to stir the masses, unless it’s for the right to whack on the bum.
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Do not have time to peruse others thinking..
Sue Bradford resigns..
WHO BLOODY CARES !!!.. Sue Bradford ??
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
but it really has to come from the hearts of the people.
You forgot ” The minds ” ..
With Coro. Short St. and that Westie thingy programme, plus all of those other mindless programmes.
How are you going to change the ” Minds ” ??.
With so many appeals to the ” Heart ” at the moment.
What chance does the MIND have ??..
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Adam2314, modern socialist political appeal had little to do with the heart or the mind. It’s appeal, as craftily suggested by Pete is to the bum, as in “How can I sit on my bum and get paid”. I ever there was a fee-paying consultancy opportunity for philu that is it
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 8:43 pm
My point exactly ..
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Sue Bradford quitting the ‘Greens’ looks like good news on the surface. However, longer term it makes them look more palatable to swing voters. If Keith Locke leaves in 2011, they’ll look even more appealing to swing voters. They might not go as far as being able to support National of Labour. None the less the appearance of being less Marxist and more ‘Green’, will be a useful political tool.
A loss for Labour in 2011 may push them toward being more of a swing party. They might offer supply and confidence to a National led government. It can be safely assumed they would exact a hefty price in terms of ‘Green initiatives’. National, being as ever unprincipled would accept. I hope it never happens.
cheers
David Prosser
Vote:October 11th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Peteypoos dunt liek it when you insult Le Roi Soleil. All you have to do is look at this to realise the kind of lunacy we have to deal with vis-a-vis the cultists.
Vote:October 12th, 2009 at 12:29 am
How can any sensible person describe Chernobyl as “is/was localised”. that would be like saying WW2 was a border dispute between Germany and Poland.
Vote:October 12th, 2009 at 10:49 pm
No loss to the country with Bradford departing, the commie will no doubt surface some where else on our dime. That’s the way of washed up commies.
Vote:October 13th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
> the commie will no doubt surface some where else
Indeed. She’ll wind up leading some union. Just like Laila Harre and Jill Ovens.
Vote: