Polls and markets on Wanganui
October 2nd, 2009 at 8:56 am by David FarrarThe Dom Post reports on a poll on Wanganui:
The survey – made public yesterday by research company UMR – found 62 per cent of respondents from around the country wanted Wanganui to stay the way it was. Only 25 per cent of 750 surveyed supported a change to Whanganui, while 13 per cent were undecided.
iPredict has also launched stocks on whether the Minister will go with the recommendation of the NZ Geographic Board. They have four stocks:
- Whanganui is at 80.2c, indicating a clear market belief that the Minister will not second guess the Geographic Board.
- Wanganui is at 6.9c
- An option of Whanganui/Wanganui (ie both) is on 5.1c
- Some other option is on 8.3c
I expect the Minister to follow the recommendation. I think the job of the Minister is to check the Board followed correct process, consulted widely, and considered all relevant issues. I don’t think it is their job to substitute their personal whim or preference for the Board’s.
Related posts:
- Herald says its both
- Invest in the polls
- Polls and Prediction Markets
- Trotter on Wanganui vs Whanganui
October 2nd, 2009 at 9:14 am
Yes, yes, all very interesting but is it going to be an “aitch” or a “haitch”? Maybe we need a referendum?
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:24 am
Yes, the personal whim of the Board is so much more considered.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:28 am
Question: Is Neville Key dumb enough to ignore the overwhelming will of the people twice in three months?
Answer: You fucking bet he is, he is prepared to totally ignore what the people want just to keep his Green and apartheid pals happy, what the people want is irrelevant.
Neville Key, the one term PM.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:29 am
“I don’t think it is their job to substitute their personal whim or preference for the Board’s.”
Well maybe, but given the deeply embedded and endemic corruption that exists at every level of government in New Zealand, then who is going to do something??? Look at the corruption and cronyism of Pita Sharples using taxpayer money for a world cup bid for another example.
Somebody somewhere has to take a stand against this or we’ll go the way of the Soviet Union.
(for political neophytes schooled in the NZ education system and who know nothing of what I speak, the Soviet Union was the Russian communist empire that collapsed in a sad heap of corruption and cronyism leaving most citizens poverty stricken and starving.)
Who takes precedence??
Some cringing politically correct racist soviet style arsewipes on the Geographic board or the people of Wanganui??
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:33 am
This poll, like most, is an indication of what is presumably largely uninformed opinion. I wonder how many of those polled have read the Board report on the proposed change.
Something that I think could be more useful is having a group that are a representative sample of the population who are prepared to research issues, read reports and give informed opinions that are more detailed than a simple yes/no poll. This would not be difficult to operate using the Internet.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:39 am
“This poll, like most, is an indication of what is presumably largely uninformed opinion.”
Why don’t you use real language rather than that politically correct soviet style newspeak?
Translation-
“The people of Wanganui are ignorant knuckle dragging fuckwits who should just do as their betters (that’s Peter George and his Stalinist cronies) tell them.”
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:45 am
Of course it should be Whanganui! Its the correct spelling, it’s not a political issue. Its the simple matter of spelling words the way they are ment to be spelt. There never should have been a referendum.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
When is Peter Sharples going to spell his name correctly? So much of the maori language is badly spelt English.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
“There never should have been a referendum.”
Heck no. Gummint always knows best, as any good little soviet drone will always tell you.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:50 am
Well if the 62% feel who voted to keep the spelling as it is feel strongly enough about the issue they could always just refuse to play the game? Don’t change their stationery or business cards, logos, letterheads etc.
Next step would be to refuse to accept any mail addressed that has Wanganui with the “H” included. Strike out the “H”, put “return to sender, address unknown” on the envelope and put it back in the system. (Unless you are absolutely certain the envelope has a cheque in it, no point in being totally stupid.)
I’m not suggesting this is what should happen, just what could happen. A way we might see those who feel their views are being overrun by the “tyranny of the minority” venting their spleens?
Personally I don’t give a toss, every place I have lived in (Belfast, London, Jo’burg, Dublin) has had it’s name changed every 500 or 600 years, I’m getting used to it.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:51 am
It was a national poll RB. I haven’t told anyone what to do about the name change. Here I was raising the issue of how informed (or not) poll respondents may be. Any poll records a spur of the moment indication, it doesn’t allow people to research or consider their opinion. If you or I or just about any one participated in a poll we would be giving mostly if not entirely uninformed opinions.
Have you read the NZ Geographic Board report on the proposed name change RB?
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:54 am
“Of course it should be Whanganui! Its the correct spelling, it’s not a political issue. Its the simple matter of spelling words the way they are ment to be spelt.”
I shall look forward with anticipation to the correct spelling and pronounciation by all maoris of those two fine old english words “cousin” and “brother”
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:54 am
“Well if the 62% feel who voted to keep the spelling as it is feel strongly enough about the issue they could always just refuse to play the game? Don’t change their stationery or business cards, logos, letterheads etc.”
No one is trying to make them do that anyway. It is their choice. However if businesses choose to exclude custom based on a letter in a name they may be the ones to lose out.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 am
“Gummint always knows best, as any good little soviet drone will always tell you.”
I’m not saying they always know best, I’m saying that they know the origins of the name and how to spell the thing! It’s spelt W H A N G A N U I. Not that hard. It’s been blown out of propotion by Micheal Laws who is a complete twat.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:56 am
I hear Michael Laws is demanding they remove the “T” from Tsunami now…
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:58 am
“I shall look forward with anticipation to the correct spelling and pronounciation by all maoris of those two fine old english words “cousin” and “brother””.
Racist prick. It’s a place name. There changing it’s official spelling. People will still spell it as they please.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:58 am
Farrar said “I don’t think it is their (Ministers) job to substitute their personal whim or preference”
As opposed to Chris Carter with the Whangamata Marina; Labour with every other ‘we know best’ public interest decision they made.
Good job National haven’t fallen into the power corruption mode that Labour did.
And, at the end of the day, who really cares about an h in a name – minor details, life goes on. Aye Dhavid.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:59 am
Well if the 62% feel who voted to keep the spelling as it is feel strongly enough about the issue they could always just refuse to play the game? Don’t change their stationery or business cards, logos, letterheads etc.
Kaya – no one is claiming that everyone will have to make changes. This is what Pete George seems to be getting at when he was discussing uninformed opinion. Have a look at this piece by Andrew Geddis on Pundit – he explains what changes would result: http://www.pundit.co.nz/content/thou-whoreson-h-thou-unnecessary-letter.
SM
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
N12CO – I promise to have my tongue surgically removed from the inside of my mouth at the earliest opportunity.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 10:11 am
That is utter bullshit. How many ways are the following collection of letters pronounced in English “OUGH” when certain consonants are placed in front of them.
Or how is the ‘Burgh’ in Edinburgh and the ‘borough’ in Scarborough pronounced.
This has nothing to do with fixing a non-existant spelling mistake and everything to do with ignoring 160 odd years of tradition and history because it is politically correct to do so.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 10:13 am
I wonder if the Minister would also follow Sir Humphrey’s recommendation if they wanted to turn Pakuranga into Packuranga?
This Minister is the same chap who claims to be all in favour of ‘freedom’ (except when officials forbid it) and the same chap who said “don’t tempt me, don’t tempt me” when I handed him a Libertarianz membership form and suggested he join…
(I cannot think why he is known as Maurice Wimpilson)
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
Given this is a name, I dont get this correct spelling bit, surely when names are concerned you can name something pretty much anything you want and spell it how you want – if thats what the people want thats what they can have – there are plenty of classic names that people misspell for some uniqueness and then are adopted as normal – take for example the name Rebecca (the correct hebrew way to spell it) plenty of people also use Rebekkah, Rebekah, Rebecka and Rebeccah – not correct any of these, but no problem as you can name things what you want.
If people of a town want to spell their name a certain way and the city itself is on board – whats the problem. If the %’s were reversed and people wanted the H then they should have that – its simple democratic rights surely.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am
Mike78:
Spot on. If the majority of Wanganui’s residents like it spelt that way then it should be left as is.
TautologyBaxter:
Read mikes sensible post.
In response to your “racist prick” all I can say is “w(h)anker”.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 am
I think we all know that communism has won on this occasion. Settle back, you can’t stop the Red Army marching over those hills… no nukes.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 11:41 am
The Russian communists were into changing place names completely, after their leaders. Be worried if Maurice suggests W(h)anganui be changed to Keyston. But that may be appropriate for a town where the cops have to run around checking beanie logos to see if they qualify for an arrest.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 am
Mike78 – Rebeccca is the English spelling of the Hebrew name Rivka. All it would have taken was a quick Google to find that out. The other variations on spelling you mentioned are different variations on Rivka, used by various languages.
Vote:The spelling Rebekah is also in the bible (see genesis). Not correct you say?
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:54 am
Government probably wont override the geographic board’s decision. Not so much because of ideology of not second guessing a professional board’s decision, but mostly because they need an issue they feel doesn’t really matter to appease the Maori Party on, after refusing Maori Seats in Auckland. Now with Tariana Turia crying over the issue, National feels it has a good chance to look all PC and on the side of Maori.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 11:55 am
I was missing your posts Red, they brought light to my day with their total over the topness.
By the way, we are currently ranked the second LEAST corrupt country on earth, but I totally agree the red coats are definitely coming (yip the British colonial soldiers are now communists is there no end to this madness). Currently stocking up on ammunition for my AK47 OMG I MUST ALREADY BE ONE
DOOOOOOMED
http://www.transparency.org/news_room/in_focus/2008/cpi2008/cpi_2008_table
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
I think the spelling of wanganui should go back to it’s original name of ‘Peter’. Problem solved.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Use your brain Brian – Petre, not Peter.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Brian Smaller (1794) Vote: 1 0 Says:
October 2nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
I think the spelling of wanganui should go back to it’s original name of ‘Peter’. Problem solved.
Petrie, in fact.
Vote:Interesting interpretation of the word “original”
October 2nd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I have seen Petrie suggested, but that may be another controversial spelling?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Petre
The Wanganui settlement was named Petre by the New Zealand Company, after company director Lord Petre.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/wanganui-places/1/4
Wanganui now has it’s own self styled Laws lord.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Peter, Petre – a typo. Like Wh or Wa. 160 years of common usage must count for something. I was born in Wanganui Base Hospital, not Whanganui Base Hospital.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Is Wanganui a typo?
How many hundreds of years has whanga (standardised spelling) been common usage for harbour?
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
‘h’ or no ‘h’ is really is not the issue. The polls reflect the Kiwi dislike of minority Maori groups imposing their will on other groups. And to justify their actions by rewriting history. It may be an ‘h’, it may be a stolen cadaver, it may be a taniwha on a roading site; standing up to pakeha is seen to be mana enhancing; it is a game. ‘Pakeha are scared of us’ was a quote from a Maori elder on Maori TV a couple of nights ago. In this game if you win a few and build up momentum there is no end to the concessions you may gain.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I wonder what is next?
The racists will win this battle by the look of it, so after we have an “h” forced upon us in Wanganui I wonder what is next in line.
Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch?
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 12:54 pm
“wonder what is next in line.”
The Pseudonym Correction Board has decided that big bruv should be renamed Tuakana.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
“The racists will win this battle by the look of it, so after we have an “h” forced upon us in Wanganui I wonder what is next in line.
Wellington, Auckland, Christchurch?”
Whellingthon, Ahucklhand, Chhristchhurchh. Whuck thhe mhind whucking bhoggles.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
“It’s spelt W H A N G A N U I. Not that hard.”
Well since there wasn’t any written maori language, and since we are ignorantly traditionalist, lets remove all written maori place names. From now on they are never spelt in maori, only the english interpretation. So from now on, if Wanganui is to be written, it will be spelt “B I G H A R B O U R”… ie, Big Harbour.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 1:20 pm
“now on, if Wanganui is to be written, it will be spelt “B I G H A R B O U R”… ie, Big Harbour.”
Sounds good to me. In the spirit of respecting the principles of the treaty I propose that Big Bruv start calling himself “Tuakananui”. Tautologybaxter will approve I am sure.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
Less than two hundred because unless history has been completely rewritten, Maori didn’t have an alpahbet.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
62% per cent Nationally and over 80 per cent locally want the status quo. The solution is simple get rid of the board they are an un-necessary bureaucratic expense especially when the Minister rightly has the final decision..All that needs to be considered is the will of the people and that is overwhelmingly clear. A decision against them in a marginal electorate which National has just won would also be stupid. The minister can delay a decision as long as he likes and he should simply not make one.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 2:53 pm
I’m truely astonished by the brilliance of the argument that Maori have no right to dictate spelling because they didn’t have a written language at the time that Europeans recorded the name ‘Whanganui’.
Vote:That they did have a sophisticated oral history with well tuned processes to listen, remember and repeat accurately has no bearing, obviously, on their ability to accurately recall the real name. That they know that ‘whanga’ is harbour and ‘wanga’ is meaningless is of no account to us pakeha with a history of writing stuff down. The sublety of a slightly/softly whistled ‘w’ is of no interest either, to us ‘writer-downers’. We” stick with what we know </i. is right, because …it's RIGHT!
October 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
What the hell, they did a poll of that banjo plucking, sister chasing mob in Whanganui, that mob whose family trees do not branch, jeez they will be asking the sister chasing horis from Whanganui next.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 4:24 pm
“now on, if Wanganui is to be written, it will be spelt “B I G H A R B O U R”… ie, Big Harbour.”
Looking at google maps, there isn’t even a harbour in Wanganui.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 4:54 pm
“Well since there wasn’t any written maori language, and since we are ignorantly traditionalist, lets remove all written maori place names. From now on they are never spelt in maori, only the english interpretation. So from now on, if Wanganui is to be written, it will be spelt “B I G H A R B O U R”… ie, Big Harbour.”
Well thats the thing! It is the english language, it’s how English intepreted te reo Maori. So spell your own language correctly, I say all names should be spelt the right way, not just Maori words.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Would all those settlers who are sick and tired of NZ and how it is turning out, consider leaving. We need more space to let new ideas grow… ;-P
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm
“Looking at google maps, there isn’t even a harbour in Wanganui.”
Does google maps show if there is a bay, cove, bight or estuary there?
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
tautokai.baxter – Wanganui is the English interpretation, it is the kiwi interpretation, it just isn’t the written English interpretation some people choose. The English language isn’t static, it is constantly changing, if Whanganui was something that most people wanted to call Wanganui then so be it, let it be renamed. However it isn’t, and forcing this change based on no real or historic convention just because a loud, vocal, ignorant minority of people want it changed is rediculous.
This isn’t about changing the spelling of Wanganui, it is about changing the NAME of Wanganui to Whanganui.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:32 pm
There is historical convention, it is about the meaning. Wanganui has no meaning. Wanganui is how the people of Taranaki pronounce Whanganui.
But I don’t even think it’s a big deal. I think Micheal Laws should get over himself and accept the descion. If Maurice Williamson does however favour Wanganui then I will accept that because it’s a waste of time debating it really. When the Government is ripping the New Zealand education system to shreds.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:39 pm
“There is historical convention, it is about the meaning. Wanganui has no meaning. Wanganui is how the people of Taranaki pronounce Whanganui. ”
I rest my case Tautologybaxter. The way the people pronounce the name of their city IS the name of their city. Get over it.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:43 pm
Wrong. it has huge meaning to me. It was where I was born. It was where me and my mates played in the gorse on Durie Hill. It is where I had a crush on Rosemary and Catherine Oliver.
‘Whanganui’ has no meaning to me.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pm
I don’t think Tautologybaxter the racist was counting a honky like you as one of ” the people of Taranaki” Brian.
Anyway tell us more of Rosey and Cath!
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:56 pm
“Would all those settlers who are sick and tired of NZ and how it is turning out, consider leaving. We need more space to let new ideas grow… ;-P”
You pick your log sonny and I will help you hollow it out.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Ah – they were the love of my 7 year old life.
In London there is a place called Tottenham. What does it ‘mean’? It’s meaning is “the farm of Totten” or something like that. But reality is it means a shit hole in North London with a useless football team, as opposed to Arsenal just up the road. The fact that whanganui means Big Harbour in Maori is irrelevent, just as the original meanign of Tottenham is irrelevant now except to a few scholars.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 7:04 pm
“I don’t think Tautologybaxter the racist was counting a honky like you as one of ” the people of Taranaki” Brian.”
Excuse me I am not a racist in any way. Im mostly of Irish and Scottish descent but also have Maori and English heritage and I am equally as proud of all my countries of origin. I am a New Zealand. I respect what Brian Smaller has to say, its a very good point. But I still think it should be spelt as what it means. Its my opnion thats all.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 7:12 pm
I loved a girl called Sandra when I was a 6year old. Kissed her head once (Not her face note).
Would undoubtably have far more meaning if it was Thottenham Brian.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Closet racist are you then Tautology me old hoa.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 7:28 pm
tautokai.baxter – the last part of your sig is baxter. That means baker. Shouldn’t you spell it to make it’s meaning – well – meaningful. After all , we all speak Old English.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Errrrm, really?
As for Edinburgh and Scarborough (and Middlesbrough and all those places ending in -bury): they all come from the Anglo-Saxon ‘burh’ meaning a fortified place. Are they all spelt wrong?
I find it truly mind-boggling that there even is such a thing as a geographic board that tells you not what the names of places _are_, but what they (allegedly) _should be_, to say nothing of a language board that lays down the law on correct usage. It all somehow seems so tin-pot third-world dictatorship. Maps (and the place names on them) should be like dictionaries – descriptive, not prescriptive – reflecting current usage, not dictating it.
Vote:October 2nd, 2009 at 9:20 pm
“Looking at google maps, there isn’t even a harbour in Wanganui.”
Does google maps show if there is a bay, cove, bight or estuary there?
Wow, then calling Wanganui “Whanganui” is wrong too, effectively without meaning. Calling it the maori word for “Big Bay” or “Big Harbour” is incredibly inaccurate, so perhaps we need a completely new name.
As MaxG states above, why the hell do we have a geographic board? It is only there to serve maori language puritans who have nothing better to do than to dictate how we pronounce or call geographic areas.
If the maori language cannot change, or evolve as time goes on, and incorporate new words or names that society uses, then it is a language without any soul. It becomes a useless language without any purpose. Changing the name of Wanganui is one step on the way to destroying the maori language, and another step to destroying NZ culture as the majority of NZ lives by.
Vote:October 3rd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Full marks to Rebaiter. You are on to it. The english language is full of borrowed terms unaltered from other languages, without its own beauty being diminished. Who could forget George W Bush accusing the french of not having a word for entrepreneur?
So how about words like puka puka be replaced by book, as there were no such thing as books when europeans arrived. It was simply bastardised to try to preserve a language. This is a non issue getting media play from people who do not deserve the time.
BBTB
Vote:October 3rd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
“tautokai.baxter – the last part of your sig is baxter. That means baker. Shouldn’t you spell it to make it’s meaning – well – meaningful. After all , we all speak Old English.”
Its a gaelic word and should be spelt as such. If it was in English and I was spelling it Bacer instead of Baker then yes it should be changed. Going by that reasoning then it would be Big Harbour, which is ridiculous.
“Closet racist are you then Tautology me old hoa.”
Vote:I am nothing of the sort, I am someone who believes Maori and Pakeha should walk together into the 21st Century helping each other as fellow citizens of New Zealand. I think the wrongs in the past should be made right and everyone sgould work together to combat ineqaulity not as different peoples but as fellow citizens. This can be done while still retaining all cultures respectfully.
October 3rd, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I just carried out some research on Wanganui .. I went through all my old boxes with my passport, birth cert, school records (sad reading), sports teams/clubs etc and I have not found an H anywhere and now some freaking clowns appointed to some stupid board want all those things to become full of errors.
Vote:I ask everyone who mentions the H issue to me this question .. why is there an H in Whangrei? I’m still waiting for an answer that makes sense.
Now .. Wanganui is suposed to mean great (or big) harbour .. after 53 years, I have yet to find it, I found a river with a wharf (oo there’s an H) and there is or was a harbour board (my uncle used to work the dredge for them) and that’s it. Who was the whanker who dreamed up that meaning?
Now, there is a place near Buller called Little Wanganui .. now what a whuck that is .. it must mean little great (or big) harbour. What the hell happened to that naming idea? That should be the next place for all the H tossers to go for next.