How to prevent WMDs in NZ
You simply ask universities to let the SIS know if they think any of their students are constructing them.
No, I am not kidding. The Press reports:
New Zealand’s spy agency, the Security Intelligence Service (SIS), wants universities to alert the SIS to any illicit science relating to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.
SIS director Dr Warren Tucker met the New Zealand Vice-Chancellors’ Committee (NZVCC) and sent university managers a letter and a brochure called A Guide to Weapons of Mass Destruction: Your Role in Preventing Proliferation of Weapons of Mass Destruction.
Well that makes me sleep better at night.
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Tags: SIS, WMDs
November 18th, 2009 at 8:57 am
This is really going to hamper my “research”.
November 18th, 2009 at 8:59 am
If this was the only strategy, then yes, that would be concerning.
But think about it another way. Imagine that some students at our universities are building WMD, and the SIS hadn’t bothered to ask. Wouldn’t they look pretty stupid then?
November 18th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Fair enough. If the lecturers see someone looking shifty in H-bombs 101 they should report it to the SIS.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:02 am
I am not really sure why folk are rubbishing this idea. One certainly doesn’t want to be wise after the event.
There are truly evil people out there whose sole aim is our destruction. It is in our interests to recognise their existence and to thwart their plans wherever possible.
EDIT to add: PaulL is absolutely right, the SIS cannot win. If they act, they look like panic merchants; if they do not act they can be accused of sitting idly by. I would certainly prefer an “ounce of prevention” approach.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:06 am
I heard this reported on RNZ this morning.
The pamphlet sounded entirely sensible, it was merely saying “Be alert to people fishing for odd information, here’s how they do it, let us know about anything suspicious.”
But the reaction of the academics! Wow! Gross attack on academic freedom! Paranoid loonies interfering at universities! Why didn’t you consult us! Shock! Horror!
It made me wonder anew what planet these academics live on.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:06 am
On one hand, it is good for universities to consider what is being taught to whom and to what end. Imagine if certain flight schools in the US had noted what students were learning.
On the other hand, are we asking universities to limit what is being taught on the basis of possible security issues? and on what criteria do we base these decisions on? Are we going to ban the teaching of Physics and Chemistry to Muslims?
While I can see the reasoning behind the enquiries, I would expect the matter to be addressed with a greater degree of subtlety than this!
EDIT: It would seem that the approach of the SIS was subtle, but the reaction of universities was not. They obviously feel challenged by this.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:17 am
One of the reasons the Fort Hood massacre occurred is that nobody asked basic questions like this. Y’know, like “well, gee, are there any rabid crazy Muslims in the US Army that talk about how evil Amerikkka is all the time?” It might seem obvious to you, but sometimes nobody asks and people end up dead.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:18 am
Tony Blair is the master WMD tracker. 45 minutes to oblivion speech. Oh Wait……………….
November 18th, 2009 at 9:20 am
The academic community consists largely of smug, self-important, know-it-alls who thumb their noses at regulation and merrily tell anyone who cares to listen the most innappropriate things in some sort of exercise in self-aggrandisement and personal puffery.
Two examples
One of my lecturers in microbiology happily admitted to his class that he had smuggled some experimental bugs required for wine and beer brewing into the country in test-tubes in his jacket pocket, then proceeded to describe how to multiply them up at home. No consideration for biosecurity issues which surprised me as he was a Professor at one of the country’s two Agricultural Universities (and today quite applicable to spreading harmful microbes. A chemistry lecturer demonstrated nitrating the Toluene molecule and just how to get three nitrogen atoms attached (TNT). Great home-brew for anyone with destructive tendencies.
It is not at all surprising that they should be reminded from time-to-time that knowledge is not necessarily pure and the recipients of their teaching may not be either.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Probably not. But if a student shows a particular interest in certain unusual areas, then alarm bells should start ringing.
Just as we would not ban flight instruction for Muslims in general, but might be concerned if some showed an interest in flying commercial airliners but ignored lessons in landing…
November 18th, 2009 at 9:22 am
on one level this is a ‘get smart’ script..
on the other are spooky echoes of the cold war in the west..
and in the totalitaria dictatorships..
where academics were expected to spy/report on each other..and their students..
but ‘y’know..!
‘the internet’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:25 am
I think the unwritten sub-text was, if there are any students with names like Abu Al-Bomba then watch what they are doing. I have no problem with that.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:25 am
“..Just as we would not ban flight instruction for Muslims in general, but might be concerned if some showed an interest in flying commercial airliners but ignored lessons in landing…”
that’s really ‘funny’..eh..?
(‘yep..!..they’re ignoring the landing instructions..!
book em..!..danno..!..”
brilliant..!
got any more howlers like that..?
please share..!
a belly-laugh is so good for the soul..
’tis a good thing you do here..colonel..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:25 am
It is indeed ironic, that the supposedly most intellectual members of our society (university lecturers) should whine and complain at being invited (repeat:”invited”) to report any suspicions they might have about the propriety of other academics research at our tax-payer funded campuses.
If they do not have the intelligence to discern when research might present a threat to New Zealand’s security, and to report that to the authorities, then they should not even be working in an academic profession.
Their arrogance is breathtaking, “academic freedom” does not mean you can turn a blind eye to the safety and security of society. Oh, but it’s OK to turn a blind eye to plagiarism.
I see in today’s NZ Herald that plagiarist, Auckland University Professor Ihimaera, has just been give a $50,000 art prize. Not a bad reward for an academic who was unmasked a few days ago as having stolen the work of another.
Morale: It’s OK for academics to steal others efforts, but not OK to report that another academic might be a threat to our security.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:26 am
but what about people called ’smaller’..?
or ‘brian’..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:29 am
WMD’s at University
At New York’s Kennedy airport today, an individual later discovered to be a university lecturer was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and a calculator.
At a morning press conference, Attorney general John Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction.
“Al-gebra is a fearsome cult,”, Ashcroft said. “They desire average solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a search of absolute value. They use secret code names like “x” and “y” and refer to themselves as “unknowns”, but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:29 am
there are times when that rightwing s.o.h. bye-pass/absence really comes into it’s own..eh..?
and now/this thread is one of those times..
dumb/paranoid rightie-trolls..the gift that just keeps on giving..
more..!..more..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Anyone even mildly concerned about the words “Death to america” and “death to all jews” spray painted on the Massey bridge?
Not you phool, just the people with functioning brain cells.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:30 am
that’s quite funny stuffed..!..i’m impressed/contradicted..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:31 am
Castle St in Dunners often looks like downtown Mogadishu after a big Saturday night…
November 18th, 2009 at 9:31 am
“..just the people with functioning brain cells..”
cue long silence/slow-tumbling tumbleweeds..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:33 am
It’s a very interesting coincidence (at the very least) that this initiative on the part of the SIS comes just a couple of weeks after I emailed Wayne Mapp (The Minister for Defence) requesting permission to test my DIY low-cost cruise missile and referring him to the SIS for some background on the project.
I wonder if this prompted the SIS to revisit the issue of just how easily WOMD might be built from readily available materials and information?
I currently await the Minister’s reply — other than a note telling me that the issue had been passed on to the Minister himself by his staff.
I’ve blogged on this today.
BTW: did you know that the SIS don’t publish an email address on their website? No 21st century technology there — it’s telephone, fax or the post if you want to dob in a suspected terrorist.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:33 am
look..buggers is here..!..
with another of his/her random-thoughts..!
(this just keeps getting better and better,,)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:34 am
The SIS are probably right to be concerned…. but they are absolutely stupid in taking this approach. Rather than meekly requesting universities’ help, they should be doing what they are PAID to do; employ SECRET intelligence. Spy. Covert operations. Plant watchers etc….. Jesus, don’t we have ANY intelligence in this country???
November 18th, 2009 at 9:36 am
what’s in a name..?..eh smaller..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 9:41 am
A similar scenario exists in some states in the US and how state snooping like this can be counterproductive. State police were concerned about the amount of chemistry glassware, beakers, test tubes, flasks etc that were in the homes of those cooking crystal meth. The call went out to glassware manufacturers to monitor who was buying their products the same call went to those producing Children’s chemistry sets. Now some states quiz those buying chemistry sets and such. This has had a dramatic effect on kids that would have once owned a chemistry set, which were once very common among the young in the US. Homeland security has placed bans on such sets under the guise of preventing drug manufacturing but they would rather the population be denied excess to them due to information on the net. The danger lies in the state controlling and enforcing ideas they see as dangerous and at the same time they slow down advancement of knowledge and invention.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:46 am
philu, the SIS is looking for weapons of mass destruction, not mass distraction, go back to sleep.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:51 am
If people with the names Smaller and Brian had committed 14,000 terrorist acts since Sept 11, 2001 and been resppnsible for the deaths of millions of people around the world, and followed a religion whose current top sect wants the destruction of the non-Muslim world and forced conversion fo everyone to their religion – then I would have no problem with keeping an eye on them.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:52 am
DPF is overly cynical about the SIS on this issue. Muslim extremists are waging world war on the West. The SIS notice to universities is in the tradition of the “loose lips sink ships” posters of World War 2. It is an attempt to raise alertness rather than paranoid panic.
If only American pilot training schools had been put on the alert before 9/11…
Another sector where people need to be on their toes is in the mundane world of fertiliser production and sales. That’s the raw material that was used in the Oklahoma bombing, and this is a big industry in NZ. If a ute with a burqua in the cab turns up for half a ton, someone should take notice.
Thinking we don’t have to worry, that NZ is safe from terrorism is as foolish as thinking our prime coastal housing is immune from tsunami, because the big waves devastate only places thousands of km away.
The reaction of radicals in academia to the SIS notice was to be expected. Ageing hippies in social sciences and the mere handful of their most gullible students seize on any chance to sneer at the Establishment. Global warming panic was made for them to fret away their lives. They should stick with their end-of-world climate obsession and leave the rest of us to worry about security from terrorists.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:01 am
Actually, certain flight schools did notice and they did raise concerns, and at least one FBI agent did write a brief report on this. But it never got upper-level attention.
And this is the real problem I have with the SIS and the like. They probably do get this information, a lot of it. But sorting the wheat from the chaff requires applying filters and if those are set wrong then they won’t see the event approaching.
We’ve had the classic example of this revealed again in recent days, with the reports that not one but two joint terrorism task forces became aware almost a year ago that Maj. Hasan was in regular e-mail contact with Anwar al-Awlaqi. Mr Awlaqi was a US-born citizen who became an imam and sheltered three of the 9/11 hijackers. He fled the US to live in Yemen in 2002 and to this day he preaches (in excellent English) all-out holy war against the United States.
But here’s the thing – the expert analysts in the Pentagon determined that this correspondence was consistent with Maj. Hasan’s “research interests,” so there was no need to worry about it.
So, plenty of money for gathering information, tons of technology, laws already on the books that could have been used in multiple ways to track this prick – and no action taken.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Thank god for that.
Won’t stop the boys down on the farm from developing launch systems though…
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/3073298/His-life-Bring-some-slaughter-on-the-water
Seriously though DPF what do you suggest – SIS spooks in every physics & chemistry lab in every university throughout the land?
November 18th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Yes, I agree about intelligence organisations being their own worst enemy sometimes.
When I first started the LCCM project I emailed DARPA and the FBI in the USA, advising them of my intentions and asking them to voice any concerns they might have.
All I got were automated replies — and stunned outrage when (several months later) the project hit the newswires.
Don’t they actually *READ* the emails they get?
The only thing worse than not enough intelligence is too much. It takes so long to sort the important stuff from the dross that you end up missing key leads and pre-empting nasty outcomes.
What will the SIS do if they’re overwhelmed with tip-offs?
We all know how students tend to rebel at authority — I wonder if right now there aren’t a whole lot of students filing bogus reports just to piss off a bureaucracy that would dare to ask them to spy on their peers?
I hope not.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:16 am
All of the respondees to date indicate that none of them have dealt with the SIS, people who make movember caricatures seem normal.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Considering that chemical retailers and the like have to be on the lookout for P-makers looking for base material, I fail to see the problem with the SIS’s request.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:28 am
I have Rainbow, in fact I’m a second generation SIS skeptic. the stories my father could tell from his dealings with them would make you laugh then wonder wtf your tax money is being used for.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:46 am
“..he stories my father could tell from his dealings with them..”
do tell..! muzza..!
just what ‘dealings’ did your father have with the spooks..?
and why..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
November 18th, 2009 at 10:48 am
Murray, maybe that’s because they were always outing his socialist mates.
After all those nice boys Kim Philby, Don McLean and Guy Burgess were scholars, gentlemen, and true patriots, they would always put their country first.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:51 am
It’s called CYA security — “cover your ass”. People ask themselves: “Could this conceivably catch a terrorist, given the right combination of events?” If the answer is “Yes”, then they pretty-much have to do it.
In the current political climate, there’s no room for doing analysis of the likelyhood of preventing terrorism, compared with the cost of the scheme and the costs of allowing terrorism to happen. And thus is vast amounts of time and money wasted for little or no benefit.
I read someone recently — it might have been Bruce Schneier — making a point about the shoe bomber: The shoe bomber failed. But he left a legacy of plane travellers removing their shoes for scanning. If you add up the time spent by each traveller, over all the flights since the shoe bomber, and divide by the average human life span, how many “accumulated lives” have been wasted?
November 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Backster you don’t actually have the sligtest idea what or who you’re talking about do you.
My father was in defence communications and the SIS frequently asked for technical assistance. Neither he nor I have “socialist mates”.
You’ve pretty much outed yourself a serious knob.
November 18th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I wonder if this will include students who speak in favour of letting US nuke-armed ships into NZ waters.
November 18th, 2009 at 11:17 am
You not interested in other nations ships then Ryan?
November 18th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Good point. I just habitually think of it as US ships, since they were the ones who kicked up the most fuss over it.
Revision:
I wonder if this will include students who speak in favour of letting nuke-armed ships into NZ waters.
November 18th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Well the Chinese managed to put one of their warships alongside in Wellington AND land armed sailors without making a statutory declaration for some reason.
I like the concept of one rule for all.
And I personally have never spoken in favor of allowing nuke armed or powered warships, American or other into our waters as the Americans had already agreed to abide by our legislation that was never an issue.
November 18th, 2009 at 11:49 am
Do we know if it was nuclear-armed or -powered?
Yeah, me neither. I like the nuke-free policy. It would be nice if more countries followed NZ’s lead and we could block out whole regions as nuke-free.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“Do we know if it was nuclear-armed or -powered?”
No, they did not make a statutory declaration. That declaration that we only seem to impose on American ships whic of course no military in its right mind would ever give.
We didn’t give one in Fiji during the first coups when we put Monowai along side and since I had been on one of the gun crews a couple of weeks before I’m pretty sure she was armed in spite of the instructions from Fiji that no armed ships were wlecome.
Do we have an anti-nuke policy or an anti-American policy?
November 18th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
So What DPF?
This is a overt ask they are probably doing covert already.
I would think that SIS is asking these questions all the time, if they weren’t I’d want their jobs taken off of them, as I would the New Zealand scientists who were working with iffy people or had concerns and didn’t report it.
Let’s be real here, with all the free publicity caused by the bullshit angst, no Kiwi has any excuse for not reporting any suspicions.
If they don’t and it can be proved they didn’t sod ‘em sack them and deny them any govt funding for their lifetime.
This is war and even if the perpetrator does the deed overseas if they planned it or worked it out here and we can stop it then we must.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
It should be one rule for all, with no exceptions.
November 18th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Though this might have had more to do with USA being usually the only navy interested in having potentially nuclear armed/powered vessels call in here, than some evil hand-wringing anti-american conspiracy!
November 18th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
Untrue RRM, the Royal Navy actually had more idvidual ship visits and the Australians were frequent visitors too. Particularly their subs.
If your claim is true why were the Chinese not required to make a statutory declaration? Different policies for different nations.
November 18th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
The organisation most likely to cause sustained damage to New Zealand and its citizens is National Ltd®.
November 18th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
There is a backdrop to this request that is worth noting, as it still has not been addressed:
http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2009/11/the-sis-wants-us-to-help-do-it-job/
Given that backdrop, limited SIS resources and other (to my mind often misguided) priorities, the request is about the best the SIS can do. But as mentioned in the link as well as in comments above, public confidence in the SIS is such that voluntary compliance is far from assured (the TEU response is illustrative in that regard). That could spell trouble down the road.
[DPF: The humour for me is indeed in thinking that asking academics to report suspicious behaviour will work. Most will, as a point of pride, refuse to pass on information even if their student are creating biological weapons]
November 18th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Paul G. Buchanan’s Kiwipolitico blog link in his 1.27 post points to lack of security vetting under Labour of 1000 Pakistani and 350 Saudi and UAE students at NZ universities. Their studies included chemistry, biochemistry, physics, agronomy, biology, and several engineering fields.
A comment in the Kiwipolitico article:”Labour was intent on making NZ an educational niche market for foreign fees paying students at a time when exactly such security vetting was increasingly being required by other English language countries. Seeing a moment of profit opportunity, and disregarding the glaring security implications of the move, Labour stepped in to fill that niche.”
More than that, there was much trumpeting about the arrival of these Mid-East students.
We don’t want to wall off NZ like olden-times Tibet, but NZ’s immigration service and its Ministerial administration has an appalling record that includes corruption as well as laxness. The rot occurred under Labour, but the National Key coalition seems to be coasting in cutting out the canker.
Thank you PGB.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:27 pm
If nothing else, the SIS at least now knows once again, whom it can trust – and would have noted that certain academics at our country’s top institutions of learning made it very clear that they are NOT in this category, as too did the MSM (not that that should be a surprise), and those niave students who believe their actions make them look so cool and anti-establishment.
Therefore, having discovered this, at relatively little cost to the organisation/s concerned (and they are, after all well used to derision from those with ‘vested interests’), life will go on as before, the information that has been gained through this latest exercise will be filed and appropriate notes and actions will be taken.
Nothing changes – information is still gathered and those who need to know such things are advised.
Be thankful that it is so (and hope that it never changes). . .
November 18th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
If we had a major earthquake and one of our big cities was smashed, would all you anti-nukers mind a fecking big carrier tying up in Wellington Harbour or in Auckland and supplying electricity – like they did for the ungrateful bastards in Indonesia after the tsunami in 2004?
November 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm
Phool’s making a lot of noise here. Maybe he’s brewing Sarin along with his P.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
And, of course, there’s Ry Sprrrorlrorlololol, demonstrating his anti-Western moral equivilency in the way only a braindead member of AUSA can.
November 18th, 2009 at 2:58 pm
The first example is disturbing, foolish, and potentially quite relevant to terrorist activity.
However there is nothing surprising about the chemistry lecturer demonstrating nitration of an aromatic organic compound – it demonstrates several key concepts in synthetic organic chemistry such as ortho/para and meta direction (IE how to get the nitro group, or indeed any group you wish to attach in the position(s) you want it to attach to about an aromatic ring). In fact making a more stable – but similar compound to TNT through the same method is part of the lab course in stage two organic chemistry. This is not a security concern as there are already instructions on how to make TNT and more dangerous substances available on the internet – both in rubbish like the Anarchist’s cookbook, wikipedia and in scientific journal websites, which anyone attending a university can freely browse.
I presume the main thing the SIS actually wants information on is someone trying to obtain chemicals/equipment to make explosives/poisonous gas/bacteria/refined uranium.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Weapons of mass destruction in our universities? For a moment there I thought they were talking aboiut the armies of “policy analysts” and student politicians who are cosseted for years in academia and then released into our public service and political parties with not a whit of real life experience in order to wreak destruction on anything that requires a modicum of common sense in order to get right.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Murray (3930) Vote: 4 0 Says:
November 18th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
“Do we know if it was nuclear-armed or -powered?”
No, they did not make a statutory declaration. That declaration that we only seem to impose on American ships whic of course no military in its right mind would ever give.”
******************************************
How do you know?
November 18th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
For goodness’ sake, if you’re going to make random unsupported assertions, at least spell them correctly.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
Alright then.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Sorry for snapping at you, Hurf, I thought you were serious. Hard to tell over text.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:43 pm
I think that the SIS director should have called for the files from 1965 containing ‘Craccum’ and ‘Outspoke’ cuttings relating to a previous occasion that SIS had an interaction with universities. Brian Rudman of The Herald may also be able to assist. The Brigadier has long since died, he would have been worth consulting too.
November 18th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
Jack5 at 2:22pm wrote:
Paul G. Buchanan’s Kiwipolitico blog link in his 1.27 post points to lack of security vetting under Labour of 1000 Pakistani and 350 Saudi and UAE students at NZ universities.
I came up against this when I worked in Foreign Affairs. The truth is that the SIS were dogmatic in always opposing any liberalisation in allowing in students from muslim country’s because of the terrorism risk.
But the SIS was just one of a number of departments consulted on this type of policy change and they were a voice in the wind, up against Foreign Affairs, the Trade people, and especially the Education Department all wanting to allow the students in because it made NZ “look good”, earned foreign currency and gave much desired funding to schools.
Anyone who has ever worked in central Government on policy issues will know that all affected departments are always consulted, and conflicting agency views are presented to Cabinet, but in the end it’s Cabinet that makes the final decision, and they are accountable if there has been inadequate vetting of foreign students, not the SIS. Cabinet accepted the risk.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Do we really feel comfortable with the approach taken by our security services with regard to WMD’s in
Universities? We know that tertiary institutions can be a hotbed of malcontent as students of a similar ilk
congregate, and in the spirit of youthful exuberance, discuss the merits or otherwise of political and other
kindred beliefs, leading to various conclusions and in some cases, extreme actions.
Activism such as this usually remains at low level and is usually an annoyance rather than a real threat in
New Zealand, but we should not let ourselves be lulled into a false sense of security and contentment,
despite the protestations of Keith Locke and others who see the world in a different hue.
Can we really dismiss this initiative, given that we have a highly regarded tertiary education system where
overseas students in vast numbers study a range of subjects that could have any number of outcomes and
violent applications? Can we afford a failure of imagination that blinds us to the absolute worst possible
end use of the information imparted? Granted, the information in the Anarchists Cookbook is freely and
readily available, but possible consequences dictate we should be more wary.
Paranoia aside, while academics protest about becoming de-facto intelligence agents, they should not be
entirely comfortable with giving unfettered information to all and sundry. In all likelihood, there is no
overt risk within our universities, but that cannot blind academics to the fact that certain information,
placed in the hands of the wrong person at the wrong time, could have devastating consequences. While
little consideration has been given to this matter by some, we should be glad that those who we have
entrusted these matters to, are more circumspect in their thinking.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Re Chris2 at 3.55…
Interesting post. Sounds as though the Education Department mirrors teacher unions in being thoroughly pro-Labour.
November 18th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
Point well taken Chris2. I allude to the issue in the blog post that I linked to above.
November 18th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Thanks Jack & Paul. A further consideration is that the risk is not from foreign under-graduate students – they will be enrolled in regular lectures and there is not too much scope for them to exploit their access.
The risk arises with those Muslim foreign post-graduate students who come to NZ to enrol in Masters or Doctoral programmes in the pure sciences, where independent research is required of them and that allows them much more autonomy.
Also many of them can only afford to study here because of scholarships provided by their own Governments, so that has the potential for exploitation too. If their Government’s security people want to talk with them when they are back home for their summer holidays, they are not going to react in the way the TEU has here in New Zealand today!
November 18th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Wow, Colonel Masters, you sure an idiot. Do you sleep with a gun under your pillow just incase the insurgents take over in the night?
November 18th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
somewhatthoughtful, heh, what a misnomer. Let’s revisit your ” insightful” thinking after some Islamic knob, in a hurry to meet a few virgins, blows up granny doing her Xmas shopping at the local shopping mall.
That might concentrate your thinking…… might even improve your command of English.
November 18th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
If the SIS stopped spying on law-abiding citizens, I might take it more seriously. Warren Tucker does for intelligence what the Boston Strangler did for door to door salesmen.
November 18th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
In response to Somewhatthoughtful at 8.08 …
Show some respect to Colonel John Masters. How dare you call him an idiot and imply he is scared of anything, let alone insurgents. There are a lot of men in NZ who would punch you for that, and they would be right.
Colonel Masters was in the jungle and the swamps fighting terrorists when your father was a blip on your grandfather’s radar screen. He commanded New Zealand volunteers in the Vietnam war, and was decorated for his bravery. He then led the long fight at home to get recognition and help for our men and what they want through. Now he bravely bares the burden of serious illness in what should be golden years.
If you were a man rather than the immature boy I suspect you are, you would apologise.
Colonel Masters has more intelligence and courage in his pinkie finger than you have in your whole body.
In the event you don’t, I say something the Colonel would be too much of a gentleman to utter:
Fuck you, “somewhatthoughtful”, may you rot in Hell.