Choose your preferred Fern flag

December 20th, 2009 at 1:01 pm by David Farrar

The Sunday Star-Times reports:

FLAGS WERE in the air last week, and so was nationhood. Maoridom chose its Waitangi Day Flag by a big majority, but discontent with the New Zealand flag, with its conspicuous Union Jack in one corner, has been simmering for years.

So the Sunday Star-Times asked a handful of experts to design a new flag. Today we reveal fascinating new designs by artists Billy Apple and Dick Frizzell, by former ad-man , who designed the famous “IWI/KIWI” National Party billboards in 2005, and by Wellington graphic design company Base Two.

Now John has six different versions of a fern flag on his blog site, and you can vote on your preferred designs.

ansell-flags-1

My favourite is the classic black. Second equal would be versions E and F. The split colour looks quite good.

I’ve just voted, so go over to John’s site and have a vote also.

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82 Responses to “Choose your preferred Fern flag”

  1. Fletch (6,296 comments) says:

    I like this one.

    [DPF: So do the Aussies]

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  2. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    ADF
    in that order.

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  3. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    ” discontent with the New Zealand flag, with its conspicuous Union Jack in one corner, has been simmering for years.”

    So let it simmer. The Sunday Star Times was prominent as the wooden spooner in Kiwiblog’s recently published press Survey. A bunch of Progressive losers doing all they can to keep themselves off the breadline and who don’t really care so much for whatever flag NZ might have as much as they care about next week’s pay cheque.

    If there is any debate to be entered into on changing the NZ flag, that debate is debased if it is led by NZ’s cynical and odious mainstream media.

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  4. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    None of them. The current one isn’t broken.

    Moves to cut the apron strings to the former British Empire are not a sign of maturity, they’re a sign of irrationality. There are lots of rational advantages toward retaining as many ties as we can, and very few disadvantages.

    For example, from a rational perspective, are we better off or worse off for cutting off the Privy Council which used to give us free access to the finest legal minds in the world, far better than the US Supreme Court.

    And what did we gain? A nice warm fuzzy feeling in some people’s bellies, the expense of building what must be the most ugly Supreme Court building in the entire world and the cost of maintaining forever an entirely new judicial layer populated by comparatively less competent people than we used to have in our highest court. For example, Sian Elias wouldn’t even rate Master of the Rolls over there.

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  5. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    F look like it could be corporate colours.

    Surely there’s a sponsorship opportunity there. It reminds me of when the Olympians tried to change uniforms from Black to Teal because of sponsorship

    I’m sure Adidas would be keen to sponsor the country – could you add 3 stripes to any of those options?

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  6. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    I’m expecting to be red-thumbed big time by my normally supportive conservative mates on this one – but by all means surprise me!

    The British blue ensign was the right flag when we were colonial whipper-snappers who called England Mother.

    But we’re all grown up now and, like Canada, we deserve our own ‘look’. (So do the Aussies, and I’ve designed one for them too.)

    Some will see this as a Trojan Horse for republicanism. I don’t mind that, but to me they’re two distinct issues.

    (As did the Canadians, who’ve had their popular new flag for 44 years and their dear old queen for 56.)

    For those who want change, I’m hoping you’ll unite behind this fern, then have a good squabble about which background to put it on.

    My own favourite is black, but I expect that to be strongly opposed as well as strongly supported. The virtue of the Canadian flag is that few would hate it. (You could say the same about John Key’s success.)

    The red-stars-on-blue is a good compromise option, and the green and blue style (which I first came up with for the original Interislander funnel) appeals to a lot of people as the freshest and least political.

    I entered a very crude sketch of the green option in a Listener flag contest in 1991, and despite my atrocious rendition it came 2nd out of 600. So I’m a bit surprised to see that it trails the field in the early voting.

    I expect Maori and those sympathetic to Maori to rally round the red and black option, and it’s right to include that option. But my own preference is for a flag with no racial overtones of any kind.

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  7. billyborker (1,102 comments) says:

    the all look like corporate logos, but I guess that’s in keeping with corporatist party DPF supports. The fern is already over used in logos and advertising.

    The biggest problem with the current flag is that when it drapes on the pole there is no way of identifying if it is NZ or any of the other 20 odd flags with John Bull’s westcot upper left.

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  8. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    “None of them. The current one isn’t broken.”

    Could not agree more.

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  9. Viking2 (11,417 comments) says:

    The fern of course symbolizes the Greens( tree huggers, dope smokers et al.) (and I’m sure Ansell hasn’t joined them yet.)
    There is no identity in a corporate stylized logo.+
    Colloquially and overseas we are and have been known as Kiwi’s since forever and its a strong brand identity.
    We should retain our brand and our identity (and its interesting that overseas especially, Maori and Pakeha use Kiwi as their nationality. No separatism there.)

    So lets have a bit of Nationality, togetherness, sense of nation in the design. Rather than piece of scrub.

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  10. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “Colloquially and overseas we are and have been known as Kiwi’s since forever and its a strong brand identity.”

    Which is a shame really since we used to have the largest, most powerful, eagle the world has known and personally I’d rather be known as a Haast Eagle than as a rather chubby inoffensive bird that’s so fat it can’t even get off the ground let alone kill anything except grubs and worms.

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  11. David in Chch (516 comments) says:

    I grew up in Canada, and remember the sometimes acrimonious debate then, just as we see in the comments above. The Canadian red ensign was used in the two world wars and so was strongly supported by many as emblematic of the sacrifice made by many. HOWEVER, it was also seen as a symbol that we were still tied to England instead of being independent. (And I agree with John A that republicanism is a separate issue. It was then in Canada, and it is in NZ now.)

    The choice made then was at first controversial, but became so well known and respected so quickly, that any dissent died away almost immediately.

    I personally like something that incorporates the Southern Cross. It is on the current flag, and is so evocative of New Zealand, in particular. When I go overseas and I miss home, I find Orion, then turn my back, knowing that at my left hand I would see the Southern Cross were I in New Zealand. To me it means “home”, as does the fern. So C was my first choice.

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  12. Jack5 (5,055 comments) says:

    Is this a cannabis leaf?

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  13. Doug (410 comments) says:

    If we rid ourselves of everything to do with Mother England the Treaty can go as well, can you imagine the uproar?

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  14. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    I like the classic black, it could be retained for sport but but I’m growing on the idea of the fern and Southern Cross version be used for the national flag, unique but maintains a link with the hopefully soon to be old flag.

    I don’t see why changing to a decent flag should have anything to do with becoming a republic, nor with anything to do with the Treaty of Waitangi.

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  15. mikeysmokes (172 comments) says:

    I dont like any of these, whats wrong with the flag we have? Whenever I see one of these colourful numbers with a fern or a kiwi on it I am reminded of that idiot Sonny Shaw at cricket and rugby matches waving it about, trying to get infront of the camera and embarrassing our country. stick to the original flag

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  16. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    E C F

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  17. Simon J Taylor (32 comments) says:

    I much prefer the current flag, but I could at least live with some of those fern designs (unlike a certain flag which has been in the news recently)
    Of the above I would prefer A, D and C: the fern and a black or silver background are quite distinctive among world flags.

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  18. thedavincimode (6,715 comments) says:

    Gee. A fern.

    How did they come up with that one?

    What about a sheep? A mud pool? A geyser? A piece of coal or a carbonette even? A barbecue? A snapper? A jandel? Fred Dagg? Wal and the dog? A kumura? A freshwater crayfish? Lake Taupo? A hobbit? The Auckland harbour bridge? A traffic jam on Auckland’s southern motorway? A nice mountain with some pretty snow on it? A cow? A lump of butter? The celebrity stars of Shortland Street?

    Next week, the tea towel design competition … I can hardly wait.

    Reid

    It isn’t irrationality. Its pandering to the rampant fuckwitism and lowest common denominatorism of those that think that by severing historic ties of whatever nature we will be able to demonstrate to a world that isn’t remotely interested in our flag, and to ourselves who are too stupid and insecure to understand, that little old NZ is all grown up.

    OTOH, its good to know that this is the biggest problem we face.

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  19. somewhatthoughtful (464 comments) says:

    they’re all ugly imnsho. I think the problem with this is that at least now the flag is a constant, no matter how poor. all choosing a new one is going to achieve is make the new one a constant that is immediately identifiable to a particular time (the noughties) and probably just become another piece of fad design. except now it will be a fad design that we’re stuck with because a bunch of “forward thinking” (read: “visionary”, read: self-important) dickheads decided that we were going to have a new flag that truly represents the pinnacle of NZ bogan culture, the silver fern. The aussies don’t seem to be wanting to put a fucking wallaby on their flag so why are we being so retarded?

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  20. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    “fern design copyright John Ansell”

    John, how do you copyright a plant, and a design very similar to the All Blacks fern?, don’t tell me its an extra 30 degrees of rotation :)

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  21. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    Does something need to be the biggest problem we face before people can express an opinion about it?

    Who’s talking about severing ties? I’m talking about a flag – nothing more.

    When you’ve stopped frothing, read about Canada.

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  22. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    I suppose to a lot of people, dumping the flag is symbolically severing the ties.

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  23. Tom Semmens (79 comments) says:

    A flag is a symbol. A symbol must convey it’s idea in a simple, powerful and unequivocal way.

    The only flag that says NEW ZEALAND in a simple, powerful and unequivocal way is Flag “A”. The Silver fern has been our national symbol since at least the Boer War, and black is a very powerful colour (or lack of colour, but you get the idea) that is uniquely NZ’s.

    Flag A is as ubiquitous as the Maori sovereignty flag. It’s the “people’s choice” already.

    It can only be flag A.

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  24. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    Leonidas, if you read that line again you’ll see that the fern was a joint creation between myself and Kenneth Wang.

    If you can’t tell the difference between it and the All Blacks trademark (which to me seems to have been modelled on a set of steak knives), you’d probably have a hard time telling the New Zealand and Australian ensigns apart too.

    In any case, my goal was not to design the most creative or most artistic flag. That’s Billy Apple’s territory. I was just looking for the most elegant expression of the most obvious symbol.

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  25. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    There are only three Commonwealth realms apart from UK that use the Union Jack as part of their national flag – Australia, NZ and Tuvalu. Of eighteen ex-realms only Fiji used the Union Jack. None of the sixteen republics in the Commonwealth use the Union Jack. Not having the Jack does not correlate with not having ties.

    Our flag is so similar to the Australian flag it suggests more than ties, many people thing we are part of Australia. At the very least our flag should be distinct from the Australian flag.

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  26. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    @ John Ansell,

    Look mate, I meant that comment in a joking manner, so don’t get too upset. I just thought it would be quite difficult to copyright a design that has so many prominent incarnations.

    And you need not worry about my ability to recognize our flag, I spent several months explaining it to various American friends.

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  27. thedavincimode (6,715 comments) says:

    Ansell

    The comment regarding the “problem” was directed at the SST predictably thinking that this warranted its legendary high-powered journalistic input.

    I’m not frothing. I think that this so-called debate is about as banal as your designs. If the Canadians are so insecure, living next to the good ole US of A as they do, that sticking a maple leaf on their flag makes them feel better about themselves, then good for them.

    If you need to feel better about yourself by taking a spin on a symbol that has been used for sporting and trade purposes for yonks, then by all means do so, but kindly run it up your own flagpole, not mine. The fact that it is widely recognised overseas isn’t a good reason to change our flag. As somewhatthoughtful pointed out somewhatthoughtfully, the Aussies aren’t likely to change their flag to the overgrown rabbit on their flag that also enjoys widespread recognition overseas.

    The cause for changing the flag seems to be championed by people who seem to be incapable of accepting that NZ is independent and that the mere presence of the UJ in one corner of the flag is some how signalling we aren’t. That is simply nonsense. The real issue isn’t that this country somehow needs to demonstrate to those both within and without its borders that NZ is somehow “grown up”. It has more to do with demonstrating that some of the people who live here need to grow up, get over their inferiority complexes, and get on with it.

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  28. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    And you need not worry about my ability to recognize our flag, I spent several months explaining it to various American friends.

    That highlights the biggest problem with the current flag, doesn’t it? Even for those who know the difference at a glance it could be either.

    It would be better if our flag could easily indicate our uniqueness. That has nothing to do with inferiority complexes.

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  29. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    Even for those who know the difference at a glance it could be either.
    only if you’re blind.

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  30. thedavincimode (6,715 comments) says:

    Pete George

    “It would be better if our flag could easily indicate our uniqueness.” That has nothing to do with inferiority complexes. ”

    OK, so lets run with the hobbit option or Wal and the dog; both unique to NZ. There are ferns all over the world FFS.

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  31. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    And like anyone outside NZ gives a flying fuck……

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  32. big bruv (13,729 comments) says:

    Leave MY flag alone please.

    I detest being told by pinkos that I should want to rid myself of the countries flag because it has a union jack in the corner of it.
    That union jack represents my heritage and I am fucked if I am going to let you buggers toss it away, you would never dream of telling Maori that their heritage is not important or that they should forget where they come from.

    Besides, the rest of the world thinks the fern looks like a white feather, the international sign of cowardice…………….rather apt when you come to think of the performance of this government.

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  33. LabourDoesntWork (287 comments) says:

    The fern should remain a logo, it should never be the flag. Flags should have a richer meaning than this, just as the current one does. The fern is ‘nice’ I suppose, but it’s a fairly superficial emblem at most.

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  34. Fletch (6,296 comments) says:

    There really isn’t anything wrong with our old flag.
    It’s just one of those cases where people like to try something new because they are bored – like when you’ve been using the same toothpaste for years and you try another brand not because it’s any better just because it’s different.

    In this way, it’s really about fashion – but do we have to be fashionable? It goes out of style so quickly.

    It’s the old Star Trek vs Space 1999 example. If you look at the original Star Trek series, the uniforms were well designed and not based upon any particular fashion – and they still work. Look at Space 1999 (for those of us who are old enough to remember it) and they are wearing flared pants and other clothing that looks terribly dated now.

    To me the flags above look like the flags of sports teams, not a country.
    Example F reminds me of something I can’t put my finger on. A dairy company? A railway logo? I’ve seen the green/blue color combination before in something. That’s what it reminds me of.

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  35. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    I think John makes a relevant point however when he says the flag and republicanism are separate topics. They are, intellectually, it’s just that some people in this debate, including myself, have indicated they naturally conflate the two.

    It’s nice being a lab rat, or is it?

    Just to help elucidate the connection in the name of the experiment for the benefit of those who seek a change, I don’t want to change something for which my relatives have fought and died. I have an emotional connection, right or wrong, between being a proud NZ Patriot and parading that flag. If anyone tries to cheapen that, as far as I’m concerned they’ll do that over my dead body, a sentiment also illustrated by bb in his 3:59.

    It’s a sad fact that those of us with such connections are becoming fewer and fewer while those without grow in number. It’s not progress but loss of heritage, in my mind.

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  36. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    big bruv: I too am proud to call myself a British-descended New Zealander, and part of me is loath to try to remove what is literally part of the fabric of our Western civilisation at a time when that civilisation is under great threat from religious, environmental and racial extremism.

    I too am pleased that we’ve inherited British institutions, and was dismayed that Helen Clark’s communists could unilaterally remove our right of appeal to such a useful body as the Privy Council.

    But there’s another way of looking at all this. While Britain is where you and I are descended from, in my case four generations ago, it’s not where we are now.

    If we so choose, we can keep all links with Britain that make sense and let others go. I don’t happen to think the Union Jack is one of those things that it makes sense to keep.

    Nor do I want to pay homage to a king (William) who comes here and openly cheers for the Lions against the All Blacks. I know this sounds petty, but after that rather impolite show of parochialism he can no longer expect us to take him seriously as King of New Zealand.

    Again, look at Canada. What damage was done to Canada’s links with Britain by the adoption of a hugely unifying and arguably world’s most admired flag?

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  37. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    I’m a proud NZ patriot but I have no inclination to parade the flag, it does nothing for me. I don’t see what our current flag had to do with the wars my relatives have fought and died in.

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  38. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    This is a bit of a reprise of J Shipley, Saatchi and Saatchi, Paul Holmes and Co . Didn’t work that time either .They’ll keep at it though .Wait till HM (God bless her) passes on , then there’ll be a real push to mould NZ in their image.

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  39. backster (2,152 comments) says:

    I think the Maori flag should have the Union Jack displayed in the first 25% to recognise the sanctity of the pact they signed with the Sovereign of the day, in accord with the principles of the Tireti ‘O Waitangi.(For which they have received several full and final settlements with more to come.)

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  40. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    My little rant about William there does not mean I see an urgent need for a republic. I’d vote for one if it came up, but I’m happy to wait until the monarchists die out. As reid says, sentiment is important – but so is reality.

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  41. big bruv (13,729 comments) says:

    John Ansell

    You make some good points, however, any attempt to change our flag will be seized upon by the left and the PC (come to think of it, I include the gutless National Socialists in that lot) and we will end up with a flag that has to be approved by the Maori party.

    Kiwis who claim UK ancestry are always being told that our heritage does not matter and that we should embrace the Kiwi culture (despite nobody being able to tell me what the hell “kiwi culture” is)

    Our current flag is for me a link with my past and with my ancestors, I will take a lot of convincing that it should be changed.

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  42. petal (706 comments) says:

    That’s not a nice fern.

    And I’m the Southern Cross Camp.

    C

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  43. LauraNorda (27 comments) says:

    Cool! A flag with a Silver Fern on it. What country in the world has a effigy of a plant on it which is toxic. Yes, so toxic even pests like Deer and Possums don’t bother to browse on it.

    Guess as the current flag ain’t broke, we had better fix it.

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  44. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    Bruv, there are a lot of people whose ancestors are not represented by the Union Jack. I know that it doesn’t concern you but it excludes them – Republic of Ireland and Wales are just two examples.

    I’m ok with the Southern Cross being depicted but it is also used on several other flags so we should display it distinctly.

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  45. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    Rep of Ire does not count.In any case all Irish are covered by St Patricks saltire.

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  46. petal (706 comments) says:

    Wow. Judging by the feedback, most people here are in need of some Xmas cheer.

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  47. reid (16,290 comments) says:

    “As reid says, sentiment is important – but so is reality.”

    They aren’t mutually exclusive John.

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  48. homepaddock (408 comments) says:

    It’s time for a flag which is distinctly New Zealand’s.

    I prefer F.

    http://www.nzflag.com/ the website of a trust which is debating our national indentity and flag, has several different options.

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  49. MT_Tinman (3,137 comments) says:

    Can’t abide the white feather.

    Assuming Oz change their flag soon, as seems likely, why bother changing NZ’s at all?

    Drop, if you want, the Union Jack, keep the rest.

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  50. Viking2 (11,417 comments) says:

    Like I said its greenies who suck weed and while its a pastime of many Kiwi’s its not appropriate for our National Flag. It also not unique to NZ.
    Kiwi’s are. Both varieties.
    BB said.
    “That union jack represents my heritage and I am fucked if I am going to let you buggers toss it away, you would never dream of telling Maori that their heritage is not important or that they should forget where they come from.

    Besides, the rest of the world thinks the fern looks like a white feather, the international sign of cowardice…………….rather apt when you come to think of the performance of this government.”

    As someone else has pointed out there is a better choice of gene pool than being a Pom and lots of us really have no affinity to England despite sacrificing many thousands of our citizens to its causes over the years.

    Given the current state of England with its rabid socialist communist leadership one wonders why BB would even want to recognise a heritage that has descended further into socialism than our own.

    We are able and deserve to be considering ourselves as the unique country we are and being recognized by the one enduring symbol that illustrates our uniqueness. We are Kiwi’s.
    What this blogs name eh?
    KIWI BLOG.

    So lets have some ideas about incorporating our uniqueness into our flag. The very defenders that we employ and who put their lives on the line both past and present have a Kiwi on their flag.
    Dare to be different.

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  51. peteremcc (342 comments) says:

    This one:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/1c/Kyle_lockwood_nzflag_black.gif

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  52. Seán (397 comments) says:

    petermcc, and there is also a blue version from Kyle:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kyle_Lockwood's_New_Zealand_Flag.svg

    I’m in two minds – the black is a more appropriate colour but the blue looks better.
    The classic black, flag a above is also a top contender.

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  53. s.russell (1,621 comments) says:

    I like E and F. A is also okay, but A and B are a bit too simplistic, while C and D try to have two symbols when a flag nedds to have just one. I do not support the current flag. It’s an anachronism.

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  54. eszett (2,401 comments) says:

    big bruv (5131) Says:
    December 20th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

    Leave MY flag alone please.

    I detest being told by pinkos that I should want to rid myself of the countries flag because it has a union jack in the corner of it.

    Your flag, big bruv? Your personal flag?
    I thought the flag would belong to all New Zealanders and every one of them could have a say. Even the pinkos

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  55. big bruv (13,729 comments) says:

    John Ansell

    The fact that William openly cheered for the Lions when they played the All Blacks is a huge plus in my book.

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  56. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,746 comments) says:

    The current flag is fine thanks.

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  57. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Im not sure of why we need to change.

    Cant say I have any ties to the UK, but im not offended that the union jack is there.

    why are we always so eager to cut ties with our past?

    a lot of our boys died in battle carrying that flag.

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  58. pdm (842 comments) says:

    If we have to have a change I favour C with the modification of adding the Union Jack in a corner.

    I for one do not want my children or grandchildren to forget their British heritage.

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  59. NeillR (351 comments) says:

    A first, then C.

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  60. kiki (425 comments) says:

    A lot of men may have died carrying the union jack but they are buried under a silver fern.

    I’m all for white on black. Kind of like a pirate live free die free.

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  61. kiki (425 comments) says:

    As for heritage. The greatest thing we can pass on is not a flag to remember a past by but the knowledge of what freedom is and a will to defend it.

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  62. Seán (397 comments) says:

    pdm said: “..adding the Union Jack in a corner. I for one do not want my children or grandchildren to forget their British heritage.”

    You see pdm, it’s actually not about it being your, but rather about being about our flag.

    As DavidW said on the first comment of John Ansell’s page: “Note: it is not necessary to represent all the different people in a flag. Eg Canada’s maple leaf does not pander to French and English and native people groups. The Swiss white cross on red does not pander to German, French, Italian and Romansch factions — it is just Swiss. Both are excellent flags. Similarly, we need a NEW ZEALAND flag.”

    And by the way, why would your children and grandchildren need a union jack on the flag to remind them of their British ancestry? If that’s all that’s left to remind them, I would say you’ve probably left it too late to retain that foreign identity.

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  63. kiwi in america (2,428 comments) says:

    Good effort John. I’m not overly upset with the current flag but the confusion with Australia is an issue. Of the ones you’ve done, I like the Southern Cross background – it links to the symbols and colours of the current flag. That said, I do like the clear simplicity of the Canadian flag and yes they were able to have a non UJ flag without becoming a Republic.

    Of course we could just wait and let the Aussies change theirs, then we’d have the UJ + Sthern Cross to ourselves.

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  64. joe90 (273 comments) says:

    Umm, it’s the union flag and it becomes the union jack when flown from a vessel.

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  65. Tassman (234 comments) says:

    NZ would be the first and only country to have a naked woman on the flag keeping up with it’s junky stand on sybols and values as known around the world for…

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  66. Flashman (184 comments) says:

    I think keep the white feather but give it a yellow background. That would capture the essence of The Tinky-Winky Republic rather nicely.

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  67. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Those are not national flags, those are corporate logos. We have a national flag and its one of the oldest in the world. the arguments for chnaging are all total bullshit based on a tiny minority trying to impose their will on others. And DPF having aquired the habit of saying he is right and wont stop regardless of the outcome is an example of this.

    If you can’t tell the difference between out flag and the Australians its because you personally are bloody ignorant. the New Zealand Ensign is the only flag in the world with white bordered red stars.

    So bascially Cram it.

    That goes for your bullshit republican movement too. This is my nation, not your company trying to rebrand for Christmas sales.

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  68. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    Overnight, I thought of a flag that would really catch the spirit of Progressive NZ- The background in black (symbolizing rampant racism) and red (rampant socialism) with the fern replaced by one big over- stretched mammary gland. (rampant welfarism)

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  69. Pete George (23,480 comments) says:

    Over the last couple of minutes I thought of a flag, it’s front all Red, with a bait hook up it’s back side.

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  70. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    Well, the debate’s bubbling along nicely.

    439 votes in, with Stars on Blue ahead on 28% followed by Classic Black on 25%, Land and Sea on 22% and Maori Colours on 18%.

    This progress result could be skewed because most voters have come from Kiwiblog, but now Trevor Mallard has linked from Red Alert (complete with health warning to his readers to hold their nose in case of right-wing rubbish!)

    I’m a little surprised the green flag is polling so poorly (1%), as I thought that would appeal to our environmentalist friends. Perhaps someone could alert them.

    If the top two remain the top two, I’ll put up my Stars on Black option to see if the Classic Blacks and Stars on Blue supporters consider that a worthwhile compromise. It also brings a Maori colourscheme into the mix.

    Once the most popular Ansell/Wang fern is known, I’ll run another poll comparing it with the most popular other designs and the current flag.

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  71. Banana Llama (1,043 comments) says:

    White feather on a black pirates flag what a pack of idiots.

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  72. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    I am not the All Blacks.

    Status quo – none of the above.

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  73. Tassman (234 comments) says:

    Yeah, and let the Hanglican choir sing their version of hardy saves the queen….

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  74. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    If it HAD to change – something like a Gordon Walters Koru pattern painting would be cool… Maori icon with a pakeha twist.

    http://wpcontent.answers.com/wikipedia/en/3/38/Amoka.JPG

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  75. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    PS: Option F is basically the old Interislander ferry funnel paint scheme.

    http://www.tikitouring.co.nz/images/interislander-ferry.jpg

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  76. scanner (340 comments) says:

    One flag, one nation, one people.
    Two flags flown side by side, two nations, two peoples them and us

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  77. malcolm (1,952 comments) says:

    Don’t worry about the flag; worry about the country it stands for. Make NZ a more prosperous country and then people won’t be worried about the flag. We’d get our pride from something a little more tangible.

    I like the NZ flag. It’s simple and attractive. The fern/koru designs look tacky and have about as much gravitas as a corporate logo.

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  78. anatinus (2 comments) says:

    Maybe the poll should also include our current flag. That way we could see what percentage still likes the old one compared to the new ones.
    I’m not against the change, and would be happy either the original or CFD.

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  79. RRM (9,841 comments) says:

    Unlike a lot of Pakeha commenting here and on other forums, I think some Maori designs could be used to good effect IF we were to change the flag – I find them quite beautiful, although no doubt some would say this is due to my “liberal guilt” or some such rubbish.

    (While there is no need to specifically reference one NZ culture or another, I personally think the traditional red/white/black repeating Maori patterns are quite stunning and could contribute to a much cooler NZ flag. )

    Here are a couple of very poor attempts from yours truly…

    http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/RRM22/nz-flag-whitefernrrmdesign.jpg

    or with a southern cross:
    http://i1010.photobucket.com/albums/af230/RRM22/nz-flag-whitefernrrmdesignwithcross.jpg

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  80. malcolm (1,952 comments) says:

    RRM you bloody commie, you put the southern cross on crooked. Otherwise quite nice.

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  81. Leonidas (1,423 comments) says:

    How does it take two people to design a plant leaf?

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  82. John Ansell (874 comments) says:

    I had a rough ‘look’ in mind, but couldn’t draw to save myself.

    Kenneth took that idea and refined it, playing with angles, leaves etc. until we were both happy.

    There’s more to it than you think – as you can see by the variety of fern designs around.

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