General Debate 28 January 2010

January 28th, 2010 at 9:26 am by David Farrar
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116 Responses to “General Debate 28 January 2010”

  1. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    But in answer to your final point – “Do you think God has free will?” – Yes, I do; He chose to become a man that He might die for the sins of the world – both yours and mine.

    Kris,

    I didn’t ask if God has choice, I asked if God has free will. Which means – God chose to become a man, but could he have chosen not to?

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  2. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Scathing words about the Messiah Obama.

    “The danger to America is not Barack Obama but a citizenry capable of entrusting a man like him with the presidency. It will be easier to limit and undo the follies of an Obama presidency than to restore the necessary common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such a man for their president.
    The problem is much deeper and far more serious than Mr. Obama, who is a mere symptom of what ails us. Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools that made him their prince.
    The republic can survive a Barack Obama, who is, after all, merely a fool. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who made him their president.”

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  3. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    He chose to become a man that He might die for the sins of the world

    The more I read this the more puzzled I am. Why would he do that? A publicity stunt?

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  4. Andrew W (1,629 comments) says:

    Bloody hell, compare this to the kittens the other day:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10622729

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  5. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 9:31 am,

    Kris,

    I didn’t ask if God has choice, I asked if God has free will. Which means – God chose to become a man, but could he have chosen not to?

    I personally see no difference between ‘choice’ and ‘freewill’.

    And Yes, God could have chosen not to become a man (and thereby pay the price for sin). I thank Him every day, though, that He did.

    [We/you are going to get a hard time for starting GD off on a 'religious' slant]

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  6. Matt Long (89 comments) says:

    Re Kevin Campbell apologising for causing offense with “John the Jew”, the problem is not that he may have caused offense, the problem is that the words he chose reveal (or at least imply.) that he is infected with anti semitism.

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  7. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    ….or anti-Keyism, which is something Act probably hoped had been put to rest.

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  8. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    I personally see no difference between ‘choice’ and ‘freewill’.

    The difference, as I understand it, is that people who believe in “free will” believe that while someone chose to act one way, he could have chosen to act otherwise.

    And Yes, God could have chosen not to become a man (and thereby pay the price for sin). I thank Him every day, though, that He did.

    Was becoming a man the best thing God could do?

    [We/you are going to get a hard time for starting GD off on a 'religious' slant]

    Ah, they’ll live. At least we/I took it away from where it would have been off-topic.

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  9. Matt Long (89 comments) says:

    Pete George. Doctrine of original sin. Adam and Eve lived in paradise in state of innocence, were tempted, disobeyed God, as a result death came into the world, and the sacrifice of blood was required to atone for their sin, initially the sacrifice of animals, followed by the ultimate sacrifice of the innocent blood of God who became a man.

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  10. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete George 9:33 am,

    He chose to become a man that He might die for the sins of the world

    The more I read this the more puzzled I am. Why would he do that? A publicity stunt?

    Christ becoming a man and dieing for the sins of the world was to reveal (publicise?) that, firstly, we are all sinners, and, secondly, redemption for our sins can only be purchased through Christ’s shed blood; His death.

    Why would He do that? – for His love for you and me, Pete.
    Read John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

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  11. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    WILL YOU GOD – SECULAR TYPES PLEASE TAKE IT TO EMAIL.

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  12. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    Yeah, I just don’t get that Kris. So I think I’ll join the other side – who the hell started talking religion on GD!

    Or I could get really radical and choose, with my own free will, to just ignore your blogging sins.

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  13. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    Red,

    I’m really talking about free will. Just using God as the perfect example of someone who has no free will.

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  14. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    One in the eye for the Commie propagandists who seek to denigrate and destroy FOX News, that broadcaster that has the unmitigated gall to employ journalists and commenters who are not all brain damaged Progressives and leftist loons-

    ——————————————————————-

    Fox is the most trusted television news network in the country, according to a new poll out Tuesday. A Public Policy Polling nationwide survey of 1,151 registered voters Jan. 18-19 found that 49 percent of Americans trusted Fox News, 10 percentage points more than any other network.

    Thirty-seven percent said they didn’t trust Fox, also the lowest level of distrust that any of the networks recorded.

    CNN was the second-most-trusted network, getting the trust of 39 percent of those polled. Forty-one percent said they didn’t trust CNN. Each of the three major networks was trusted by less than 40 percent of those surveyed, with NBC ranking highest at 35 percent. Forty-four percent said they did not trust NBC, which was combined with its sister cable station MSNBC. Thirty-two percent of respondents said they trusted CBS, while 31 percent trusted ABC. Both CBS and ABC were not trusted by 46 percent of those polled.

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/32039.html

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  15. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Matt Campbells anti-semitism was simply so casual and matter of fact that there exists no applogy that I would find acceptable and either Act parts company with or with voters who are not into Holocaust Day anti-Semitism thanks very much.

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  16. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 9:46 am,

    The difference, as I understand it, is that people who believe in “free will” believe that while someone chose to act one way, he could have chosen to act otherwise.

    Of course. Who can’t think of something they’ve done which they knew they shouldn’t, but did anyway; even if they knew it would be to their own detriment. For example, a child’s deliberate disobedience.
    I’m sure you could come up with your own examples.

    Was becoming a man the best thing God could do?

    Certainly from my perspective.
    For salvation to be made ‘available’ to man, Christ had to become a sinless man via the virgin birth (no taint of paternal blood through Adam), plus He had to be God (come from outside the fallen creation, which was ALL tainted with sin). Thus Christ had to be both fully man and fully God.

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  17. Grant Michael McKenna (1,156 comments) says:

    I thought that Jethro Tull showed us that God was made to think that He had free will? On a more serious note: the Hayek/Keynes rap video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0nERTFo-Sk

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  18. dime (9,602 comments) says:

    The IPAD has arrived.

    Not sure of NZ pricing yet. But the base model in the US is $499. Way better than expected.

    Its a pretty cool toy.

    Tons of coverage here:

    http://gizmodo.com/

    It uses Apples own processor. Just a smart company!

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  19. big bruv (13,450 comments) says:

    If you really want to ruin your day then this should do it.

    Green party nutbar Gareth Hughes is soon to be a member of parliament, that’s right folks, we are going to be paying the wages of another loser.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3270187/Green-Party-MP-Jeanette-Fitzsimons-resigns

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  20. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    Of course. Who can’t think of something they’ve done which they knew they shouldn’t, but did anyway; even if they knew it would be to their own detriment. For example, a child’s deliberate disobedience.
    I’m sure you could come up with your own examples.

    Certainly I can see how someone can wish they had chosen otherwise.

    Was becoming a man the best thing God could do?

    Certainly from my perspective.

    And does God always know what is best?

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  21. eszett (2,346 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (8635) Says:
    January 28th, 2010 at 10:02 am

    One in the eye for the Commie propagandists who seek to denigrate and destroy FOX News, that broadcaster that has the unmitigated gall to employ journalists and commenters who are not all brain damaged Progressives and leftist loons-

    Another classic Redbaiter-Irony-Of-The-Day!
    Calling everyone a communist propagandists and praising FOX news in the same sentence.
    You have no idea how much you sound like the soviet era Pravda

    Keep it up!

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  22. Brian Smaller (4,013 comments) says:

    dime – Apparently you can read a book on it. You know, I can’t think of anything worse than looking at a screen to read a book. Wouldn’t want to drop it in the bath, or get it filled with sand at the beach, or tuck it into my bike pack when I go for a long ride.

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  23. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    Kris K (1343) Says:

    For salvation to be made ‘available’ to man, Christ had to become a sinless man via the virgin birth (no taint of paternal blood through Adam), plus He had to be God (come from outside the fallen creation, which was ALL tainted with sin). Thus Christ had to be both fully man and fully God.

    Then why do matthew and Luke have a supposed genealogy of Jesus? And why is it only “paternal blood” that is tainted? And why did jesus need to be born, why couldn’t god have just come down like he used to in Moses’ day? And just what is so weird about god that he can only forgive man’s “sin” by killing himself?

    The more logic is applied to religion the more it creeps back in to the shadows.

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  24. dime (9,602 comments) says:

    Brian – yea its just a normal screen too.

    Theres new technology coming out this year, a normal looking screen, but you can change it to look like e-ink/paper. the backlighting dims, you dont notice the refresh rate etc. its the future.

    ill wait a few months, see what other tablets come out. then ill make a decision.

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  25. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 10:17 am,

    Certainly I can see how someone can wish they had chosen otherwise.

    That implies that we can only be wise ‘after’ the fact.
    Life experience, conscience/morals (and God’s word plus the indwelling Holy Spirit), ALL combine to allow us, also, to be wise before the fact. As I’ve said before; we’re not robots.

    And does God always know what is best?

    Certainly from my perspective.
    Who is the pot to question the motives of the potter?

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  26. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    ” Keep it up! ”

    Don’t worry, I will. With or without the encouragement of brain damaged leftists like you.

    On Kiwiblog, there’s not much more fun than holding the heads of delusional Progressives under the cold waters of reality.

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  27. dime (9,602 comments) says:

    Bruv – its a good thing. People seem to like that old hippie.

    Fill the greens with as many nutjobs as possible.

    and get the chick leader (not the ginga with the standard issue leftist lisp) to do more tv! and make sure she doesnt change earring style either!

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  28. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    On the companies registration and money laundering front I was sent an article about Steve Crow and an American John Carr
    http://www.spcs.org.nz/
    with formal complaint to companies office
    http://www.spcs.org.nz/2010/carr-consulting-p-a-and-john-m-carr/#more-886

    If that wasn’t enough it seems both Steve Crow & David Crow appears to not filing at the companies office.
    http://www.spcs.org.nz/2010/steve-crow-and-david-crow-435-devon-limited/#more-888
    but wait now it seems that they are on the companies office website dated yesterday.

    Is this another “finding the form” like the Labour MP, David Parker and AG?
    As the pages weren’t on the website last year and Tuesday this week that they are apparently required to do.
    Seems there may be problems at the companies office
    Minister Power needs to have a serious look at the processes and even the personnel as the perception of dishonesty in this office merely compounds the recent reports about intra national use of territories companies offices for nefarious deeds.

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  29. XChequer (350 comments) says:

    Heh!

    Tried going to Gotcha only to be told “Website Temporarily Down”

    Whale must lodge his server on the XT network.

    XChequer
    http://thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/

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  30. Redbaiter (13,197 comments) says:

    How much do you have in common with the Communist Party USA??

    ———————————————————–

    Change is Here, Change is Coming
    Sam Webb, National Chair, Communist Party, USA:

    Let me begin with a simple observation: If the last 30 years were an era of reaction, then the coming decade could turn into an era of reform, even radical reform. Six months into the Obama presidency, I would say without hesitation that the landscape, atmosphere, conversation, and agenda have strikingly changed compared to the previous eight years.

    In this legislative session, we can envision winning a Medicare-like public option and then going further in the years ahead.

    We can visualize passing tough regulatory reforms on the financial industry, which brought the economy to ruin.

    We can imagine the troops coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan while U.S. representatives participate in a regional process that brings peace and stability to the entire region.

    In the current political climate, the expansion of union rights becomes a real possibility.

    Much the same can be said about winning a second stimulus bill, and we sure need one, given the still-rising rate, and likely long term persistence, of unemployment.

    Isn’t it possible in the Obama era to create millions of green jobs in manufacturing and other sectors of the economy in tandem with an attack on global warming?

    Can’t we envision taking new strides in the long journey for racial and gender equality in this new era, marked at its beginning by the election of the first African American to the presidency?

    And isn’t the overhaul of the criminal justice and prison system – a system steeped in racism – no longer pie-in-the sky, but something that can be done in the foreseeable future?

    All these things are within reach now!

    http://cpusa.org/change-is-here-change-is-coming/

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  31. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    yeah Red
    that’s what 30 yrs of soft socialism in education and media does for their confidence!

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  32. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    there’s not much more fun than holding the heads of delusional Progressives under the cold waters of reality.

    Poor Jim. The most progressive thing about him is his age. Have you convinced him he should retire?

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  33. petal (705 comments) says:

    Exercising MY free will ;)

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  34. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    That implies that we can only be wise ‘after’ the fact.

    No, I’m just saying that our ability to imagine having chosen differently or wish we’d chose differently doesn’t mean we actually could have chosen differently.

    Certainly from my perspective.
    Who is the pot to question the motives of the potter?

    So God always knows what’s best. Does God always want what’s best?

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  35. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    MyNameIsJack 10:27 am,

    Then why do [M]atthew and Luke have a supposed genealogy of Jesus?

    One traces Christ’s genealogy through His mother, the other through His (supposed) father. You will notice that they branch after David; one goes through Nathan, the other through Solomon.

    And why is it only “paternal blood” that is tainted?

    The blood type of a child is determined by the father. The mother only provides nutrients and the removal of waste from the infant in her womb. Thus Christ, to have no taint of sin, had to have no earthly father – hence the virgin birth, and His being conceived of the Holy Spirit.

    And why did [J]esus need to be born, why couldn’t [G]od have just come down like he used to in Moses’ day? And just what is so weird about [G]od that he can only forgive man’s “sin” by killing himself?

    The Old Testament Jews offered the blood of animals as a covering (a downpayment, if you like) until the genuine sacrifice was made in the person of Jesus Christ. The reason His blood had to be untainted with sin is that it is this blood that washes the sins of those that come to Him in repentance.

    Though we may view Christ allowing Himself to be crucified as strange, it boils down to ‘someone’ having to die for our sins; either we pay the price ourselves (ie we die not just physically, but spiritually), or we allow Christ’s shed blood through His death (by receiving Him) to pay for our sin.

    Bottom line:
    Someone has to ‘pay the ferryman’; either us, or Christ.
    It’s our (freewill) choice.

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  36. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    The Ten (GOP) Commandments?

    How to marginalise a party? And it’s members.

    The GOP is having a a winter meeting where they will consider a resolution that would impose a “purity” test on all candidates.

    The resolution, being introduced by some of the committee’s more conservative members, would require that Republican candidates agree on at least eight of 10 listed conservative positions — from taxes and immigration to same-sex marriage and gun control — or lose party money and support.

    “There is significant opposition on the RNC to any sort of litmus test or resolution that would take power away from the state parties or even primary voters as this proposed resolution would do,” said Henry Barbour, a committee member from Mississippi.

    Eric Odom, executive director of American Liberty Alliance, a Tea Party group, described the purity test as a good start but said, “I see nine of those planks that I would want to be almost mandatory before it could be taken seriously. “The GOP should not give its candidates any room to squirm”.

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  37. Brian Smaller (4,013 comments) says:

    Kris K and Ryan – get a room….please.

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  38. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 11:03 am,

    No, I’m just saying that our ability to imagine having chosen differently or wish we’d chose differently doesn’t mean we actually could have chosen differently.

    I think that’s just so much bull, Ryan.
    It’s not a matter of ‘could’, but rather ‘would’; as in will, as in freewill.

    So God always knows what’s best. Does God always want what’s best?

    Once again, yes. But He will never override our freewill – He leaves the final ‘choice’ with us.
    You’re not a Calvanist by any chance, Ryan? – they also believe in predetermined outcomes.

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  39. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Could your free will come with a spit warning in future please petal.

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  40. Ross Nixon (610 comments) says:

    Kris K and Ryan – keep it going.
    The misotheists and Christophobes can learn to be tolerant of free speech!

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  41. Pat (76 comments) says:

    Anyone got an idea how this is going?

    Media release
    24 February 2009

    ASB has created a special $1 billion loan fund for New Zealand businesses to borrow at below market rates if they can demonstrate the loans will create employment, or prevent people losing their jobs.
    At the same time, New Zealanders will be given the opportunity to share in this job creation
    initiative by depositing funds with ASB in a special Job Creation Term Deposit. The interest rate on the loans and the term deposit will be reviewed weekly, but will always be the same. The rate will be fixed at the time of approval and will apply for a 2 year term.
    The opening interest rate for the Job Creation Loans is 5% per annum, which is 0.95% per
    annum below ASB’s current two-year fixed housing rate.
    To be eligible for the loans, borrowers will need to meet ASB’s normal business lending criteria plus demonstrate the employment benefits of their proposal.
    “The focus of the lending pool is to assist businesses to take advantage of opportunities to create new jobs, or to prevent a business having to cut jobs,” said ASB’s CEO, Charles Pink.
    “These loans will be going out at the lowest interest rates offered to businesses in recent times. It is our practical contribution to saving jobs in an unprecedented economic environment.
    “If a business is prepared to invest in its future, and create or protect employment, then ASB is saying it is prepared to back them with an attractive lending rate.
    Loans made from the $1B pool will be available only to existing businesses for new lending. Both current ASB business customers and new customers can apply. The loans are for a minimum of $100,000 and a maximum of $10 million and will need to be fully drawn down within 60 days of being approved. Applications to refinance existing borrowings will not qualify for a Job Creation Loan.
    Applications for both the Job Creation Loans and the Job Creation Term Deposits will open on Monday, 2 March. ASB will separately account for this pool of lending funds and will report publicly on progress in terms of loans extended and jobs saved.

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  42. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ross Nixon 11:19 am,

    Thanks for the new word – “misotheists” – I’ll add it to my data bank.

    Misotheism is the “hatred of God”.

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  43. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    So is “socialism”.

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  44. lastmanstanding (1,220 comments) says:

    MikeNZ You have uncovered yet another of the dirty dark secrets that our legislators and regulators prefer to keep buried. I and others raised the issue of the Companies Office and overseas registrations without adequate checks with the then Minister of Commerce Lianne Dalziel in 2008. As a result of a press release I was interviewed by the idiot Bill Ralston who tried to rubbish any idea that NZ Companies Office could be targeted even though in 2007 there had been incidents including several eminating from the Middle East.

    We warned Dalziel who was already under pressure from FATF Financial Action Task Force to beef up the procedures and start to do what Australia et al had been for years to protect company IDs.

    BTW If I was of a mind I can access the Co Office files of any of the companies listed on NZX and change data as regards Directors etc and then change and use the changes to commit a fraud on the company that they would never know until the innocent creditor party came after them for the money.

    If I told you how I would have to kill you but it involves email addresses with a slight change if thats a clue.

    Suffice to say the NZ Companies Office is seen internationally as a weak link

    BTW Terrorist funding is now being done thru charities rather than corporates as there is less rick involved.
    And that also raises the problem we have with our newly formed Charities Commission who have yet to get to grips with the international nature of terrorist funding activities.

    Time will tell but I suspect the case regarding the ship carrying weapons to Korea and the NZ registered company will be repeated and in time NZ registered charities will be used as funnels.

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  45. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Lastman
    I haven’t uncovered it someone sent me an email and I went to that website.
    It is worrying as I thought the Labour Ag issue was very iffy.
    now with the present stuff it looks like we are an easy fish for traffickers and others to use us for bases.

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  46. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    Misotheism is the “hatred of God”.

    I don’t see how you can hate something you don’t think exists (“I hate nothing”?), so I presume a Misotheism must believe in a God to hate it.

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  47. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    lastmanstanding 11:38 am,

    BTW Terrorist funding is now being done thru charities rather than corporates as there is less risk involved.
    And that also raises the problem we have with our newly formed Charities Commission who have yet to get to grips with the international nature of terrorist funding activities.

    This is indeed a concern for the future of NZ charities.
    I know many Muslim ‘charities’ in the UK are used to fund terrorism.
    Passing money through a ‘charity’ is also a great way to wash/launder ‘dirty’ money from offshore, etc.

    With our increasing Muslim immigaration this issue will raise its head on our shores.

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  48. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    I think that’s just so much bull, Ryan.
    It’s not a matter of ‘could’, but rather ‘would’; as in will, as in freewill.

    What I am showing is that there is no practical difference between “won’t” and “can’t”.

    So God always knows what’s best. Does God always want what’s best?

    Once again, yes. But He will never override our freewill – He leaves the final ‘choice’ with us.
    You’re not a Calvanist by any chance, Ryan? – they also believe in predetermined outcomes.

    I’m not a Calvinist, but I admire their willingness to apply logic even though it brings them to such an unpopular conclusion.

    So God always knows what’s best and always wants what’s best.

    Is God all-powerful?

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  49. petal (705 comments) says:

    Oh come on Murray, it’s hot news! The Apple iPad – I’m sure you boys want to know all about it.

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  50. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Murray 11:33 am,

    So is “socialism”.

    When you think about it, just about every ‘ism’ is an expression of the hatred of God; just dressed up differently.

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  51. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    IKnow some may not find this funny

    “They decided to call it the iPad? was iTampon taken?,”
    “But does it have wings?”
    “iPad. Feminine protection for the future. And the future is now,”
    “The iPad is priced at $499 for a minipad and $829 for maxipad,”
    “iPad. Like a tampon. Only more expensive.”
    ‘Yeah, you can only use it once a month.’”

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  52. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 11:57 am,

    What I am showing is that there is no practical difference between “won’t” and “can’t”.

    No, that’s what you’re ‘trying’ to show. There’s a million miles between “won’t” and “can’t” in practical terms.

    So God always knows what’s best and always wants what’s best.

    Is God all-powerful?

    I think I see where you’re trying to take this, Ryan, but I’ll play along.
    Yes, God is omnipotent.

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  53. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Spoonerism?

    Professor Spooner hated God??? Who knew.

    Think you might be drawing a long bow there Kris.

    Petal just looking for a warning, nothing else. http://failblog.org/2010/01/27/name-fail-photoshop-win/

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  54. petal (705 comments) says:

    “Is God all powerful”.

    Answer: can God reach the itch between the shoulder blades without a spoon?

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  55. Dirty Rat (504 comments) says:

    Can God lick his/her’s/it’s own elbow ?

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  56. Yvette (2,735 comments) says:

    “redemption for our sins can only be purchased through Christ’s shed blood; His death.”

    So God was disappointed in his own creation, therefore became a mortal who committed suicide [albeit aided by the Romans] to be a blood sacrifice, which was an anathema to himself while he was Jesus, to purchase our redemption, according, that is, to Paul who hijacked the whole of Christ’s teachings into the magic password formula you now believe in?

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  57. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Murray 12:16 pm,

    Spoonerism?
    Professor Spooner hated God??? Who knew.
    Think you might be drawing a long bow there Kris.

    I did say “just about every”, Murray.

    I was thinking of things like:
    Socialism (your suggestion), Naziism, Communism, Liberalism, Progressivism, Feminism, Materialism, Atheism (sorry Pete), Agnosticism, Islamism, Catholocism, Calvanism, etc.

    Whereas I think Capitalism (when subject to biblical values/God) is a positive thing, and is the best form for a society to take under Democracy. Of course without God’s guidance and values Capitalism just becomes greed driven Materialism – a modern day phenomena as we have turned our backs on our Creator.

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  58. dime (9,602 comments) says:

    “God might be all powerful, but does he have lips? woooooo” – Layne Staley RIP

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  59. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    No, that’s what you’re ‘trying’ to show. There’s a million miles between “won’t” and “can’t” in practical terms.

    How many times have you done something you will not do? Do you expect it to happen in the future that you will do something you will not do?

    I think I see where you’re trying to take this, Ryan, but I’ll play along.
    Yes, God is omnipotent.

    Following a logical train of thought isn’t playing along, it’s not backing out when you don’t like where clear thinking is taking you.

    So God always knows what’s best, always wants what’s best and can always do what’s best.

    Has there ever been and will there ever be an event ever where God does anything other than what is best?

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  60. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Yvette 12:33 pm,

    So God was disappointed in his own creation …

    He wiped out much of it in Noah’s flood due to sin, and He will create a new heaven and a new earth following the final judgement to cleanse it of the taint of sin – so yes, God was pretty disappointed with the creation after it fell due to Adam and Eve’s sin.

    He was pretty pleased, though, immediately after He had initially finished it – “And God saw that it was good”.

    The dilemma of entrusting man with FREEWILL – they will stuff up.

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  61. Don the Kiwi (1,633 comments) says:

    Wow.
    Kris K.

    That’s a pretty broad brush of “….isms” you’ve got there.

    I notice you include some ” isms” that believe in God as their base belief.

    How do you account for them being “an expression of the hatred of God”.?

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  62. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    About half those isms are a love of god… and the wholesale slaughter of those that don’t love a particular god or love him in an approved manner Kris.

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  63. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Was the flood actually the first recorded incident of global warming??? OMG someone tell Al Gore so he can get religion.

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  64. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 12:37 pm,

    How many times have you done something you will not do? Do you expect it to happen in the future that you will do something you will not do?

    How many times have you done something you cannot do? Do you expect it to happen in the future that you can do something you cannot do?

    So what’s your point?

    Following a logical train of thought isn’t playing along, it’s not backing out when you don’t like where clear thinking is taking you.

    Since when is seeing where you’re trying to take the argument ‘illogical’, and when have I ‘backed out’, as you put it?
    Take a chill pill, Ryan.

    So God always knows what’s best, always wants what’s best and can always do what’s best.

    Has there ever been and will there ever be an event ever where God does anything other than what is best?

    No, never.
    (Carry on, I’m all ears)

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  65. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi 12:52 pm,

    I notice you include some ” isms” that believe in God as their base belief.

    How do you account for them being “an expression of the hatred of God”.?

    They change the truth of God’s word into a lie (Catholocism, Calvanism, and perhaps you included Islamism).

    I was being a little provocative with my inclusion of Calvanism; but they promote the idea that the saved and the lost are predetermined, and in this they show ‘hatred toward God’ by essentially dissuading the sharing of the Gospel – by which men are saved, and of which Christ commanded us to share.

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  66. Johnboy (15,374 comments) says:

    A handy list of religious “isms” for the obvious connoisseurs that permeate this erudite blog.

    http://phrontistery.info/isms.html

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  67. Johnboy (15,374 comments) says:

    Of course this particular “ISMS” (Institute of Silly and Meaningless Statements) is probably more appropriate here :)

    http://www.isms.org.uk/

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  68. Chthoniid (2,029 comments) says:

    Was the flood actually the first recorded incident of global warming??? OMG someone tell Al Gore so he can get religion.

    Some might say he has got a religion…

    I suppose if you dug an ice-core and took special care to stop somewhere in the 6-10,000 year layer (going deeper down to the 40,000 year layer might get confusing), you might get some evidence of a warmer period.

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  69. Don the Kiwi (1,633 comments) says:

    Sorry Kris K.

    Can’t go along with your expalnation.
    Because a religious “ism” does not conform to your particular subjective interpretation of Christianity, those “isms” do contain a degree of truth and certainly does not indicate a hatred of God – simply a fallen human misunderstanding.

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  70. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    Atheism (sorry Pete)

    I alluded to this earlier, I’ll state it here, I don’t hate God or gods, I have no reason to because I have no reason to believe any exist.
    And I don’t hate Christians (or Muslims) generally, I think their beliefs seem kinda quaint, albeit a bit confusing and contradictory. There are some of any group who deserve to be hated, but I’d rather not tar everyone with an undeserved brush.

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  71. Chthoniid (2,029 comments) says:

    Parenthetically, is anyone else troubled by the claim that a morally perfect being would also commit global genocide? I thought this was supposed to be a bad thing, like a war crime.

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  72. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    the claim that a morally perfect being would also commit global genocide?

    Growth in Heaven may have been stagnating and it wanted to boost immigration?

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  73. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    How many times have you done something you cannot do? Do you expect it to happen in the future that you can do something you cannot do?

    So what’s your point?

    That’s my point. As you demonstrated, “can” and “will” are interchangeable.

    Since when is seeing where you’re trying to take the argument ‘illogical’, and when have I ‘backed out’, as you put it?
    Take a chill pill, Ryan.

    Sorry, you’re quite right, that came off sounding nastier than I meant it to.

    Has there ever been and will there ever be an event ever where God does anything other than what is best?

    No, never.
    (Carry on, I’m all ears)

    Is it possible for God to do anything less than what is best?

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  74. Repton (769 comments) says:

    In a study published in the January 18 issue of PLoS One, subjects were able to accurately identify candidates from the 2004 and 2006 U.S. Senate elections as either Democrats or Republicans based on black-and-white photos of their faces. And subjects were even able to correctly identify college students as belonging to Democratic or Republican clubs based on their yearbook photos.

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=a-face-for-politics-new-study-shows-2010-01-27

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  75. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Johnboy 1:07 pm,

    A handy list of religious “isms” for the obvious connoisseurs that permeate this erudite blog.
    http://phrontistery.info/isms.html

    I liked this one, Johnboy:

    Epiphenomenalism: Doctrine that mental processes are epiphenomena of brain activity.

    Of course this would fit in with my belief that life can exist outside of the body.
    I sort of view the brain as like computer RAM – number crunching ability if you like. Whereas memories, morals/conscience, etc are stored in our human spirit.

    Thanks for the link.

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  76. Johnboy (15,374 comments) says:

    I like “egotheism” obviously a belief that politicians and parking wardens have in common.

    I of course suffer from “pyrrhonism ” :)

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  77. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Of course without God’s guidance and values Capitalism just becomes greed driven Materialism – a modern day phenomena as we have turned our backs on our Creator.

    That’s an interesting statement.

    Greed is a deadly sin, right? I could almost believe that unrestrained capitalism would work if there was no greed in the world, and everyone was motivated by charity and helping others.

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  78. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    So, let me get this right.

    God creates a perfect place and populates it with perfect people, who then sin, thus anhiliating god’s perfection. God sure didn’t see that coming, did he? So, he punishes Adam n Eve, but obviously not enough as their descendants still go on annoying god.

    So, god finds “One righteous man”, Noah, and sends a flood to wipe out everyone excpet Noah’s family and a few animals. Why did all the animals have to die? Dd they have free will? Did they sin?

    Surely god could have just said “Fuck It” and started all over again?

    Anyway, Noah makes ladfall, but it seems that god was either wrong about Noah’s righteousness or its not an inherrited trait as Man keeps on “sinning”. Again, wy didn’t god see that coming?

    So, yet again, instead of starting all over with an new, sin free creation, or clapping his hands and making us all sin free, god gets born’gets killed and says “Right, that’s it, sin is forgiven forever” and yet there is still sin, there is still evil and world is a horribly cruel place. Why? Because god is neither omniscient or omnipotent; he is a malevolent fiction.

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  79. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 1:34 pm,

    That’s my point. As you demonstrated, “can” and “will” are interchangeable.

    They’re only interchageable in the example just used.
    “Can” implies ‘ability to do something’ – I can walk.
    “Will” implies a ‘choice’ – I will walk.
    So even though I ‘can’ walk, I still have to ‘choose’ to do so.

    Of course it breaks down here:
    I “cannot” fly (as I have no wings).
    I “will not” fly is a nonsensical statement (as I have no wings).

    Thus:
    “I can do something I cannot do.” is a lie.
    Whereas “I will do something I will not do.” is just nonsensical.

    Sorry, you’re quite right, that came off sounding nastier than I meant it to.

    Apology accepted.

    Is it possible for God to do anything less than what is best?

    No, God always does what is best.

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  80. Tim Ellis (253 comments) says:

    I see Mr Goff’s big, bold economic policy is to put a cap on state sector chief executive salaries.

    He may wish to note the following:

    During the nine years of the last labour government, state sector chief executive salaries increased dramatically. The Secretary to the Treasury earned $330-339,000 pa in 1999. He earned $550-559,000 in 2009.

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  81. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    They’re only interchageable in the example just used.
    “Can” implies ‘ability to do something’ – I can walk.
    “Will” implies a ‘choice’ – I will walk.
    So even though I ‘can’ walk, I still have to ‘choose’ to do so.

    Of course it breaks down here:
    I “cannot” fly (as I have no wings).
    I “will not” fly is a nonsensical statement (as I have no wings).

    Thus:
    “I can do something I cannot do.” is a lie.
    Whereas “I will do something I will not do.” is just nonsensical.

    “Things you won’t do” is a subset of “things you can’t do”. You can’t fly, because you don’t have wings. You can’t fly to Nepal and dance naked on someone’s grave, because you won’t fly to Nepal and dance naked on someone’s grave.

    Is it possible for God to do anything less than what is best?

    No, God always does what is best.

    Can God do anything other than what is best?

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  82. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Repton 1:44 pm,

    That’s an interesting statement.

    Greed is a deadly sin, right? I could almost believe that unrestrained capitalism would work if there was no greed in the world, and everyone was motivated by charity and helping others.

    You may like this oft misquoted verse, Repton:

    1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    People often miss the “love of” bit, and just say “money is the root of all evil”.
    Heck, I like money, but I don’t love it.

    Materialism is just one sympton of an increasingly divorced from God society.
    And we wonder why things continue to get worse.

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  83. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    MyNameIsJack 1:55 pm,

    So, let me get this right. …

    The gospel according to Jack; and no, you haven’t got it right.

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  84. Pete George (23,123 comments) says:

    Materialism has been around longer than your God has been talked or written about Kris. And most religions seem to have embraced materialism themselves, and many flaunt it.

    Is materialism just a natural result of humans striving to better themselves and not knowing when to stop?

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  85. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 2:11 pm,

    “Things you won’t do” is a subset of “things you can’t do”. You can’t fly, because you don’t have wings. You can’t fly to Nepal and dance naked on someone’s grave, because you won’t fly to Nepal and dance naked on someone’s grave.

    Disagree.
    Choosing not to do something because I cannot do it is not a choice by any measure.
    To follow up “You can’t fly to Nepal” with “you won’t fly to Nepal” is nonsensical – if I can’t do something then whether I choose to or not becomes irrelevant.

    Can God do anything other than what is best?

    No, God always does what is best.
    (I’m avoiding anticipating here)

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  86. XChequer (350 comments) says:

    Goff’s speechwriter needs to be fired and a new one brought in. Unfortunately, the Labour party put a cap on speechwriters wages so they can only afford a cartoonist.

    Full text of his speech is here:

    http://www.labour.org.nz/news/keynote-speech-many-not-few

    What a moron!

    XChequer
    http://www.thenzhomeoffice.blogspot.com/

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  87. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Pete George 2:26 pm,

    Materialism has been around longer than your God has been talked or written about Kris.

    Really?
    You mean before Adam?
    Do you mean that Satan was guilty of materialism? – I guess he did try to take over God’s throne – that’s pretty materialistic of him, not to mention a bit naughty.

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  88. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    Disagree.
    Choosing not to do something because I cannot do it is not a choice by any measure.
    To follow up “You can’t fly to Nepal” with “you won’t fly to Nepal” is nonsensical – if I can’t do something then whether I choose to or not becomes irrelevant.

    Sorry, I meant take a plane to Nepal and do the various things. I was looking for an example of something that is technically physically “possible” but you won’t do because you have no reason to do it.

    Another example, “You cannot torture a kitten to death because you will not torture a kitten to death.” (I hope.)

    No, God always does what is best.
    (I’m avoiding anticipating here)

    I don’t think any anticipation is really necessary. You just agreed that God cannot do anything but what is best. That is a clear example of no “free will”.

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  89. Yvette (2,735 comments) says:

    K ris K – “No, God always does what is best.”

    Why then did he allow man to sin when that is not what he wants?

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  90. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    Why then did he allow man to sin when that is not what he wants?

    Clearly, because that was best.

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  91. Chthoniid (2,029 comments) says:

    I’m going to back Pete up on the atheism isn’t about hating God. Given the only shared supposition of atheists is that there are no Gods, it is nonsensical to hate the non-existent. Atheists aren’t in denial, or angry with God, or secret Satan worshipers or amoral libertines. We just don’t share Theist presuppositions about life or its meaning. [Edit- and find that many of the truth-claims to be just plain wrong].

    Some atheists are angry about organised religion, but that’s not a shared value. I don’t mind participating in some Christian rituals as it’s a way of connecting to part of my culture and history.

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  92. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 2:45 pm,

    Another example, “You cannot torture a kitten to death because you will not torture a kitten to death.” (I hope.)

    Incorrect summation.
    I “will not torture a kitten to death” because I choose not to. But I always have the ability to “torture a kitten to death” and therefore there is always the possibility that I could.
    (BBQing a dog; that’s a whole other matter)

    I don’t think any anticipation is really necessary. You just agreed that God cannot do anything but what is best. That is a clear example of no “free will”.

    Right, let’s nail this sucker to the mast!
    (The issue that is, Ryan, not you – and of course I don’t think you’re a sucker either, just opinionated, like me)

    You have attempted to apply human attributes to God – never a good strategy.
    Let’s go back to your “torturing a kitten to death” analogy (You are a sick man, how’s the counselling going?).

    If I restate it, but substitute in God, it becomes an accurate statement:

    “[God] cannot torture a kitten to death because [God] will not torture a kitten to death.”

    Now I’m not saying God doesn’t ‘allow’ disasters, etc to happen – so don’t read that into this.
    The point I’m trying to make is that God’s ‘will’ determines what He ‘can’ and ‘cannot’ do. Something which is not true for human beings. God cannot go against His nature.
    For example, God is love; therefore He cannot be unloving (no doubt others will disagree).
    God is also perfectly just. He has also given man freewill to accept or reject His love. Those that reject His love offering (Christ’s death on the cross) will have to face His perfect justice. And without Christ they will not meet His standard which is perfection.
    We are only justified (made or regarded as perfect in God’s sight) through receiving Christ.

    So in summary:
    While God has freewill, He is (self) limited by His very nature – He can only operate within His predefined, selfimposed limitations. Perhaps the following verse sums this up best:

    2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

    God’s will is that none “should perish” (die the second/spiritual death in the lake of fire). But He will not override our individual freewill in this regard. And His perfect justice (also His nature) requires those without Christ to face the consequences of their sins themselves.
    Short of God overriding our freewill, or making us robots with no freewill, our response to Christ’s death on the cross very much determines our eternal destiny.
    Bottom line:
    We choose our final abode; either heaven with God, or the lake of fire with the devil and his angels.

    Hopefully I have answered your question, Ryan, and maybe given you additional insight regarding God’s nature.

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  93. Ryan Sproull (7,055 comments) says:

    That doesn’t really cut it, Kris. You’ve stated unequivocally that it’s not possible for God to act in anything other than the best way. Therefore, in any situation, God can only act one way. And I don’t know of any definition of “free will” that is compatible with someone who can only act in one way.

    Tacking on “but he’s got free will” afterwards doesn’t change the fact. Whether God has “free will” or not doesn’t change the fact that God cannot help but act one particular way – it is impossible for God to act otherwise.

    If you’re saying that God is constrained in this way and humans are not – “The point I’m trying to make is that God’s ‘will’ determines what He ‘can’ and ‘cannot’ do. Something which is not true for human beings. God cannot go against His nature.” – then you’re saying that humans have free will and God does not.

    And I am only applying human attributes to God because I am talking to you, and that is what you do – “God wants”, “God chooses”, “God wills”, “God loves”, etc.

    The question of whether or not God has free will obviously becomes a moot point if God is so alien and inhuman that such concepts of choice and will do not apply to him.

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  94. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull 3:38 pm,

    That doesn’t really cut it, Kris.

    Oh well, I tried.

    The question of whether or not God has free will obviously becomes a moot point if God is so alien and inhuman that such concepts of choice and will do not apply to him.

    You are partly right:

    Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

    I continue to pray for your salvation, Ryan; I can only do my part, the rest is between you and God.

    Chow for now.

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  95. chiz (1,124 comments) says:

    Kris k:The blood type of a child is determined by the father. The mother only provides nutrients and the removal of waste from the infant in her womb. Thus Christ, to have no taint of sin, had to have no earthly father – hence the virgin birth, and His being conceived of the Holy Spirit.

    Blood type is determined by both parents kris.

    Kris k: I liked this one, Johnboy:

    Epiphenomenalism: Doctrine that mental processes are epiphenomena of brain activity.

    Of course this would fit in with my belief that life can exist outside of the body.

    I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess that you don’t understand what epiphenomena are. Epiphenomenalism is contrary to dualism and the existence of ‘spirit’ stuff.

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  96. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Hey you God Bloggerers

    what about this?
    http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/3913.htm
    UNDP (hey Helen’s baby) reports The report notes that in the Arab countries, there has been a general trend of freedom levels going from bad to worse instead of “from good to better” (p. 60).

    Well if the holiest Leader is to be believed, the only democracy in the Middle east hasn’t got long so our helen better get her skates on.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hfCovw5NyRLdeUFbjHQ68S7Wm3hg

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  97. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Kris
    you really tried brother.
    You deserve a cold DB (or whatever ;-)

    Isaiah 45:18
    For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: “ I am the LORD, and there is no other.
    Amen

    I guess we’ll all find out on the last day.

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  98. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    A quote from Obama’s State of the union address …that John Key should take a leaf out of

    “Those of us in public office can respond to this reality by playing it safe and avoid telling hard truths. We can do what’s necessary to keep our poll numbers high and get through the next election instead of doing what’s best for the next generation.”

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  99. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Hey Kris, did Adam have a belly button?

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  100. Ross Nixon (610 comments) says:

    Such an important unanswered question! ;-)

    So, I’ll jump in and answer as it appears Kris Kristofferson isn’t around.
    No, because a belly button is the scar left behind from the umbilical cord.

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  101. Steve (4,516 comments) says:

    Oh shit, here we are pas 6pm and the devil dodgers are still talking shit.
    Get a chatroom ffs.
    General is general, not just religious debate

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  102. Johnboy (15,374 comments) says:

    Forget the crazy christians folks the new salvation has arrived to save us all and its prophet is Fool Goof.

    Here is what he said on suffering the little children to come to him as recorded in the scriptures according to Eddie from the book of Standard.

    “Phil Goff has just delivered his first major speech of the year to state what Labour stands for and where it is going.

    I have to say, I’m impressed. You really should read it.

    It sets out a clear agenda for Labour and that agenda is firmly rooted in Labour’s deepest principles – decent pay for a fair day’s work, good public services, a more equal society, community responsibility, and saving children from the conditions of deprivation and poverty that lead to lives of crime and underachievement. ”

    Halelujah for we are saved sayeth the Fool!!!!

    Hereth be the Fool text.

    http://www.thestandard.org.nz/the-many-not-the-few/#comments

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  103. dad4justice (7,898 comments) says:

    Johnboy the standard is retard troll farm. Why bother with the insane creeps?

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  104. Johnboy (15,374 comments) says:

    Knowing ones enemy dad is the secret to ultimate victory.

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  105. Kris K (3,570 comments) says:

    Chiz 5:33 pm,

    Kris k:The blood type of a child is determined by the father. The mother only provides nutrients and the removal of waste from the infant in her womb. Thus Christ, to have no taint of sin, had to have no earthly father – hence the virgin birth, and His being conceived of the Holy Spirit.

    Blood type is determined by both parents kris.

    While both parents influence blood type at the genetic level, the infant can have a different blood type to his mother. His blood/lymphatic systems are unquely his own and are independent to his mother’s. And so even though he gets nutrients, etc via his mother, there is no blood transference between mother and child. Thus he does not share his mother’s sin nature.

    There is a scientific justification for the father determining the blood type of the child, but I can’t lay my hands on it at the moment.

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  106. Dirty Rat (504 comments) says:

    Im tryng still to find out what happened to the first page of the bible.

    “all characters portrayed in this bo……………………………”

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  107. big bruv (13,450 comments) says:

    ha ha ha

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  108. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    Meanwhile in the UK, a certain Couple well known to Kiwis gets some recognition.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/benedict-brogan/7086643/How-the-charity-of-a-peers-wife-will-propel-Cameron-to-power.html

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  109. Komata (1,138 comments) says:

    So the wonderful Mr. Goff has said that labour qwantz: ‘decent pay for a fair day’s work, good public services, a more equal society, community responsibility, and saving children from the conditions of deprivation and poverty that lead to lives of crime and underachievement. ”

    Me thinks a ‘Tui’ response is definitely called for – an obviously Helen couldn’t make her usual phone call.

    But has anyone noticed the the person making these statement is a former teacher – a person who has not ‘worked’ in the usual ‘labouring-type’ sense, a person who has actually been a public servant, a person who’s avowed intention is to UNDERMINE New Zealand society, and to reduce it to the lowest level possible, to take responsibility FROM the community and keep it to itself.

    And as for ‘saving children from the conditions of deprivation and poverty that lead to lives of crime and underachievement’. Evidently the fact that his government did everything possible over nine years to DESTROY families seems to have completely escaped him.

    One day he may see the error of his ways and admit his responsibility, but somehow I don’t think this will happen any time soon – the arrogance is simply too ingrained.

    Ah well, one can but dream. . .

    Perhaps it’s ‘political amnesia’, but as Labour encouraged a climate of ‘no responsibility’ perhaps its not so surprising..

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  110. Repton (769 comments) says:

    No, because a belly button is the scar left behind from the umbilical cord.

    Well, I asked because I read a book with an essay on the subject a few years ago. Apparently it was a subject of much debate amongst Christian scholars in (I think) the middle ages. The issue is this: they knew, of course, that the belly button is the scar where the umbilical cord drops off. And Adam was created, not born, which means he shouldn’t have had one. But man was created in the image of God. So if Adam was in the image of God, and Adam had no belly button, then it means every man who has come after was _not_ in the image of God.

    But I’m not sure how, or if, the debate was resolved. So since Kris is here answering questions on theology, I thought I might see if he has an answer.

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  111. big bruv (13,450 comments) says:

    Have a gander at this

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/3272744/US-woman-accused-of-having-sex-with-son

    Now ask yourself what punishment the low life parent would have received if it had been the father having sex with his daughter.

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  112. Repton (769 comments) says:

    Now ask yourself what punishment the low life parent would have received if it had been the father having sex with his daughter.

    I think you may have misread the article. The woman received 1 year probation for violating narcotics laws but she has not yet been sentenced (or even convicted, or possibly even charged) for having sex with her son.

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  113. Alan Wilkinson (1,838 comments) says:

    An excellent article here on the real issues affecting coral islands. Greenpeace deserve to be sued for the disgraceful way they have misrepresented the science to the islanders.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/27/floating-islands/

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  114. pjje (27 comments) says:

    I have only just begun contributing here, and I quite enjoy it. But it is already clear to me that it calls for real facility, or a good deal of time. For the estimable Mr Farrar, it doubtless has professional advantages, so that it is worthwhile to devote time to it or to pay others to do so. Other participants may be retired, or beneficiaries, or maniacal in some way. And I have to say that they perform a useful service who trawl the internet and serve interesting nuggets up here. It even reflects the utopian stories and forecasts that I read in my youth, of a future of plenty where one might choose whether to work.

    But so often it seems like talkback radio.

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  115. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    The ‘Watermelons’, ‘Marxists’, and scamming opportunists are having a bit of a tough time at the moment.

    Summed up in a very pragmatic way here.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/dailypolitics/andrewneil/

    EVEN the BBC is waking up to the utter FRAUD of the weirdy Beardy ones.

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  116. chiz (1,124 comments) says:

    Kris k:While both parents influence blood type at the genetic level, the infant can have a different blood type to his mother. His blood/lymphatic systems are unquely his own and are independent to his mother’s. And so even though he gets nutrients, etc via his mother, there is no blood transference between mother and child. Thus he does not share his mother’s sin nature.

    There is a scientific justification for the father determining the blood type of the child, but I can’t lay my hands on it at the moment.

    The reason you can’t find it is because it doesn’t exist. Blood types in the ABO typing system are determined by both parents. There will be cases where the mother passes on the neutral allele to the offspring and it blood type will be determined by the father but there will be just as many cases where the father will pass on the neutral allele to the offspring and its bloodtype will therefore be detemined by the mother.

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