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David, I don’t care why you did it, if you did it. What I want to know is why all these muppets think that discovering anything that is accessible under the OIA is a problem.
The contributors to The Standard have an amazing ability to take any issue and make themselves look like total idiots. They surpass even Phil Goff in this.
79 comments of rage and bigotry over DPF making a legitimate request of the government. Get over yourselves you pea brained losers.
White House requests $26 billion supplemental to save 300,000 teacher jobs.
The request comes just a year after an unprecedented $100 billion in federal stimulus money was allocated to school districts as part of the $863 billion recovery act. Of that amount, $48 billion was designated for saving teachers’ jobs and investing in educational programs. Another $31 billion in stimulus funds were sent to states for Pell grants, competitive funds and programs helping disadvantaged students.
An Education Department spokesman acknowledged that the stimulus funds have already saved roughly 300,000 teachers’ jobs once, but an additional $23 billion more is needed to preserve education jobs, along with $1 billion in funds to save early childhood education jobs and an additional $2 billion to support public safety.
The teachers probably got some inspiration for stand over tactics from their ‘public service’ colleagues in Greece.
Has any candidate ever lied more than Obama did during his campaign? The only hope he has given America is for the next election.
Topical question: Is Pita Sharples confused about apartheid? Is he now actually advocating neo-apartheid?
The question arises from his call on the TTVNZ (Tabloid Television NZ) late news on Friday night for Maori to have a separate rugby union from the NZRFU. This is an example of the race-separation policies he and the Maori Party seek, and which Bro. Key gives credence to through his coalition.
The Shorter Oxford Dictionary definition of apartheid includes:
..any other form of (esp. racial) segregation..
The “other” referred to, of course is, South Africa’s apartheid system.
It is ironic that Sharples so quickly steps from calls for apologies for apartheid discrimination against Maori rugby players to a call for apartheid within NZ rugby.
Given the way the May 12 GD thread ended pretty much with this quote from Ryan Sproull:
I was comparing Kris to mainstream moderate Muslims.
And I believe that his attitude towards them, writ large, could potentially become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If everyone in New Zealand treated Muslim Kiwis with the same attitude of “sure, you seem okay, but I know that deep down you’re a sneaky lying terrorist waiting for his chance”, that atmosphere would probably radicalise some people in that group.
….not to mention similar debates in the GD yesterday – I thought I’d throw a little more fuel on the fire with the following article: What Did You Say About Muhammad?!
Two quotes from it were notable. Here’s the first:
The evangelical Arabic satellite station, al-Haya(Life TV), regularly takes the Muslim prophet to task, especially on two weekly programs: Hiwar al-Haq (Truth Talk), hosted by Coptic priest Fr. Zakaria Botros, and Su’al Jari’(Daring Question), hosted by ex-Muslim Rashid.
If you thought Kris K was confrontational you should check out what they’re saying in the Middle East. I’m amazed al-Haya has not been burned to the ground, which leads to the second quote:
how can Life TV get away with outlandish weekly disparagements concerning Muhammad, whereas Western cartoons spark widespread outrage?
……
Conversely, by holding fast to onetime Western principles of free speech and open dialogue, Life TV has conditioned its Muslim viewers to accept that exposure and criticism of their prophet is here to stay.
Once again it appears John Cun… I mean John Key is going to shaft middle NZ – tax cuts for everyone but people earning from $48,000-to-$70,000. I still cannot get over the fact that total government spending in NZ equates to near on 45% of GDP, whereas 5 years ago it was about 10% lower than that but they cannot find any room to cut spending significantly.
This guy is an utter weasel. Every significant policy National had before the election has been dismissed by him or Binglish as “aspirational”.
I just hope that the herald is living up to the crap paper it is and has it all wrong… again.
Reaction to the latest serving of the U.S. Cap and Trade Bill before the house
“The global temperature “savings” of the Kerry-Lieberman bill is astoundingly small—0.043°C (0.077°F) by 2050 and 0.111°C (0.200°F) by 2100. In other words, by century’s end, reducing U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by 83% will only result in global temperatures being one-fifth of one degree Fahrenheit less than they would otherwise be. That is a scientifically meaningless reduction.”
I guess they haven’t been speaking to either Nick or John…
Charlie Brown —-I would think it in evitable that the public spending would remin lagrely constant becuase we are all here needing it whereas the governments income has declined due to ecconomic conditions … as conditions get better it should decline as a percentage with a National government. “The light at the end of the tunnel” ?
Income Tax
Over the past two days I become worried by a new development I have observed about our Inland Revenue Department.
If taxpayers strictly observe the law, and the Department disagree with them, they will think it unfair and force the taxpayers to pay in excess of $100,000 in legal fees to pursue the case to the High Court.
The Department know that few taxpayers have that sort of disposable cash, so they continue to bully people, even though those people have strictly adhered to the law.
There is an extremely pungent smell to all of this.
I regret that I am unable to go into exact details on these matters which involve livestock and bloodstock.
Well Big Bruv, The only shred of credibility for lil old NZ left in super rugby is those useless bloody Crusaders, their useless bloody captain and their useless bloody coach. At least if the Useless bloody Hurricanes had been the standard bearer for this country The Useless Bloody Crusaders Fans would have given token support to them and wished them well in the playoffs. And Your team was? – or are you just going to do what the Saffas used to do and claim the super rugby comp a crock of shit because they couldn’t compete.
Go the useless bloody CRUSADERS.
BTW I see the Hurricanes have stolen Hammett for next year as head coach .
They would have to be the least tollerant and most abusive of posters here.
Presumably snide remarks, a sneering tone, mockery and constant implications that one’s opponents are evil or stupid or ignorant (preferably all three) – in short the standard approach of the left wing over the last few decades – does not count as abuse.
Perhaps LRO might consider asking the targets of that approach whether they think it’s abusive.
Which led to Scott’s comment:
it is Liberals that are incredibly intolerant of anyone that is not Liberal.
To be more precise it’s anyone who does not toe the Left’s line of the day – which includes more than a few Lefties, as John Campbell found out in the Corngate scandal and Chris Hitchens found out during the Iraq war.
Which is why it was interesting to see this article in the Guardian of all places – Southern Comfort
My favourite quote from it is this one:
This brings me to my favourite specimens: cocktail party progressives. You know the type – can’t converse without referencing the New Yorker. Pretentious, self-congratulatory liberals who applaud their own humanity while mocking the south.
We have not “stolen” Hammett, we have had him imposed upon us.
Wellington Rugby had had a succession of fucking useless Cantab coaches, we do not want them nor are they welcome.
I am glad that you have seen the light in as much as you admit that your captain is a useless cheat, while I did not watch the game I imagine that he was once again outplayed by George Smith.
As for your “token support”, thanks but no thanks, that kind of support is not what anybody wants.
The sky is blue, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, all is at peace with the world, the Crusaders last night showed once again that when the going gets tough the tough get going.
“Net gains for people in the $48,000-to-$70,000 tax bracket will be minimal because the 33c tax rate on income in that range is not expected to be cut to offset the GST price rises.”
It could be another infamous delivery from Neville Key, who continues to betray the very same people who elected him, i.e., the middle class of our country. Higher taxes for all and sundry, while money is given to the racists, e.g., Whanau Ora.
Quite a disgrace for the coward National Party, which, we know now, lied all the way during the election campaign.
jcuknz – Why do we need the government to controll 45% of our income? It grew about 10% in one government term, how come we need it now but didn’t need it 5 years ago? Why do we need the government to take our money, filter it of and pay some back in the way of WFF (and that is if you are entitled to WFF)?. Labour must be thinking that John Key is the best thing for NZ, it looks like we are going to have three socialist governments in a row.
Every week they are demanding another apology from the government, this time the male co leader of the apartheid party wants an apology from the crown for Maori being left out of All Black touring teams to South Africa.
Well if it is good enough for them it is good enough for me, I want…no, I DEMAND an apology from the crown for the nine years of hurt and pain caused by the Labour/Green government.
I want to hear the crown say “Sorry” for the corrupt reign of Klark and Kullen, I want to hear them admit that we have been butt fucked financially by those wankers and I demand that apology is given within the next two weeks.
Along with the apology I want compensation, $100 million should do it.
Manolo – in saying that, I don’t think all the national party lied, I would have been confident Brash would have brought in what he said. Who reakons it was John Key who leaked all the personal information about Brash to the media? I reakon John Key might have been Nicky Hager’s insider. He seems slimey enough to have been that person.
Tauhei Notts – I’m having a battle with IRD at the mo. Relates to year on year highly variable income and resulting provisional tax .. and penalties. The sum they’ve pinged me with and the estimated legal fees to prove said penalties are unlawful is about the same. Not happy.
It’s just the usual language control and debate framing, an almost instinctive feature with the left.
You’ll probably appreciate this video of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie having a crack some reporter who framed his question with the whine about Christie being confrontational
I guess it’s the Joisey accent and the body shape – but man this guy reminds me of Tony Soprano – in a good way
To Kris K, MikeNZ and all you others afraid of Islamic Terrorists, here is some good news for you.
Iran has executed notable terrorist Shirin Alam Holi. Maybe you can sleep easier now.
In addition to Shirin Alam Holi, a further 5 terrorists have been hanged. This must make you feel so much more comfortable, that Iran is making the world a safer palce, one hanging at a time.
For me, I’m saddened and support the terrorists and hope that many more like them will arise. They, along with the Waihopi Three, are the true heroes of our day.
…the Waihopi Three, are the true heroes of our day.
Yes they certainly achieved a lot didn’t they. The military-industrial complex really took a huge hit.
Seriously, how anyone with a 3-digit IQ can imagine the world would be a safer place if we didn’t have signals intelligence, is beyond me. You’d have to be an A-grade village idiot even to think that in the first place, let alone take action that exposed yourself to serious criminal charges without even having the hope that it would ever achieve anything material whatsoever.
Mick and M@tt – Some years back a OIA request was made seeking disclosure of my name with a view to a possible defamation suit in relation with my job. I was warned by the government agency that the request would be acceeded to and I told the company secretary. Nothing came of it as I would have been covered by qualified privilege. So what is the difference between that and DPF’s alleged sin?
“..Who reakons it was John Key who leaked all the personal information about Brash to the media? I reakon John Key might have been Nicky Hager’s insider..”
he has always been top of my list of suspects…
as in..who had the most to gain from the fall of brash….?
a brash who had taken them within a breath of victory….
..and so was in a strong position/had support in his role..
..for the forseeable future..
it’s one of those ones you’d like key to do a lie-detector test on…
..(it’d be great telly..!..)
in fact…how about a show where ex-pollies are hooked up to lie detectors…?
and quizzed on their records/statements..
..most of them are hungry enough for another dollop of fame…
It always facisnates me the way the overstayers and the national socialists like to inject the word fright into their invective when views opposing theirs are expressed. As though we should all roll over. Prudence would be a more apt description
@bigbruv: “….anything but the fucking Hurricanes….”
Agree. With specific reference to last night anyway.
As for Hammet, he was a munter as a player and I doubt he’ll be better as a coach. If we were going to take somebody from Canterbury, why couldn’t we get someone like Grizz? Probably too much balls. Plus he’s experienced as a head coach. Can’t have one of those!
Got to have a softly-softly approach here in Wellington. Can’t actually have players like Tialata, Weepu and Nonu turning up fit at the start of the season. Can’t have good discipline. It’d go against the flair we love to see from our players. Can’t have a great forward pack. That’d mean too much hard work and not enough glamour that comes from standing in the backline. Can’t have players not crying to the media about how they might leave the game because they’re not getting picked enough. They need to be able to express their emotions. Can’t drop underperforming stars. They bring the crowds, and they’ll get their form back. Got to take rugby academy boys regardless if there are more deserving players. No wonder a lot of Wellington talent goes elsewhere.
to all Maori .. I’m sorry.
Right, lets get on with life and look forward and not back .. unless there is something else we honkies have done.
oh, I may have missed it BUT, when you consider what tribes did to each other before colonisation destroyed the fabric of their society, I would love to hear them publicly apologising to each other, that would be cool.
LRO – hopefully you have some family holidaying overseas and some middle eastern terrorists blow them up. i just wanna see how conflicted you are then.. love of family vs white guilt.
notice i didnt say blown up in bali by muslims terrorists.. cause you hate asians..
It is interesting that some people (such as Ryan Sproull who you quoted) consider the highly critical attitudes of people like myself towards Islam, and the teachings and person of Mohammed, will inevitably lead to so called moderate Muslims becoming radicalised.
Which is more likely to elicit an irate Muslim response: 1) public cartoons of the Muslim prophet Muhammad, or 2) public proclamations that Muhammad was a bisexual, sometime transvestite and necrophile, who enjoyed sucking on the tongues of children, commanded a woman to “breastfeed” an adult man, and advised believers to drink his urine for salutary health?
Based on the recent South Park fiasco — where an animated episode depicting Muhammad in a bear suit sparked outrage among various Muslim groups, culminating with the usual death threats — the answer is clear: cartoons, once again, have proven to be the Muslim world’s premiere provocateur. Indeed, just yesterday, during a university lecture, Swedish artist Lars Vilks, whose life is in jeopardy due to his depiction of Muhammad as a dog, was violently assaulted to undulations of “Allahu Akbar!” (Islam’s primordial war cry).
Yet how can cartoons rouse Muslim ire more than public assertions that Muhammad was a bisexual, a transvestite, a necrofile, et al?
[...]
Now, back to our original observation: how can Life TV get away with outlandish weekly disparagements concerning Muhammad, whereas Western cartoons spark widespread outrage? Considering that millions of more Muslims watch Life TV than have ever heard of South Park makes the question doubly puzzling.
The answer is simple: the South Park incident is less a reflection of Muslim anger and more of Western appeasement. By constantly buckling in to the slightest Muslim displeasure — whether by altering films, removing museum art, or canceling book launches — the West has perpetuated a vicious cycle wherein Muslim sensitivities are ever heightened and outraged at the slightest slight, and Western freedoms of expression are correspondingly diminished and trampled upon. What’s worse, such self-imposed censorship falls right into the hands of homegrown Islamists actively working to subvert Western civilization from within.
Conversely, by holding fast to onetime Western principles of free speech and open dialogue, Life TV has conditioned its Muslim viewers to accept that exposure and criticism of their prophet is here to stay. As Fr. Zakaria often points out, every religious figure is open to criticism: so why should Muhammad be sacrosanct? (Indeed, Comedy Central, which was quick to acquiesce to Muslim demands to censor South Park, is “brave” enough to run an entire cartoon series mocking Jesus.)
Of course, one need not agree with Life TV’s tactics or evangelical mission to appreciate the lesson it imparts: Muslim outrage — as with all human outrage — is predicated on how well it is tolerated. Continuously appeased, it becomes engorged and insistent on more concessions; ignored, it deflates and, ashamed of itself, withers away. Put differently, if you voluntarily act like a dhimmi — a subjugated non-Muslim who must live in debased humility — you will be treated like a dhimmi (including by being killed for the slightest offense); conversely, if you assert yourself like a freeman, you will be perceived as a freeman — even as you are hated.
To be fair, there is one caveat: whereas Muslims have no choice but to interpret South Park’s and Lars Vilk’s caricatures of Muhammad as egregiously offensive — no known Muslim records depict Muhammad as a bear or dog — the much more disturbing Life TV anecdotes all originate in Islam’s most authoritative sources (Koran, hadiths, tafsirs, fatwas, etc). In other words, perhaps the anger toward Life TV is subsiding as Muslims become reconciled to the fact that, no matter how abominable, what is being said about their prophet is, in fact, grounded in Muslim sources, and thus must be true.
Yet if that is the case, seems like silly cartoons of Muhammad are the least of Muslims’ problems.
So in summary:
The article essentially equates the West appeasing Islam with our implicit condoning and justifying of Islamic attitudes and responses to us. That if we act like submissive dhimmis, then Islam is more than happy to treat us as such.
Whereas if we point out what Islam says of itself (as outlined in the Koran, Hadith, etc), and while Muslims might not like it, they cannot refute it without denying the veracity of their own writings.
A well known quote comes to mind: [Joh 8:32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
As I’ve said before: The West appeasing Islam will likely have the same result as Chamberlain’s attempt to appease Hitler.
“As Fr. Zakaria often points out, every religious figure is open to criticism: so why should Muhammad be sacrosanct? (Indeed, Comedy Central, which was quick to acquiesce to Muslim demands to censor South Park, is “brave” enough to run an entire cartoon series mocking Jesus.)”
Is it not just that one belief is in absolute submission to a vengeful God, while the other is of compassion and acceptance.
Every week they are demanding another apology from the government, this time the male co leader of the apartheid party wants an apology from the crown for Maori being left out of All Black touring teams to South Africa.
@bigbruv,
Talk about irony. I see that the NZRU has also apologized, but not the Maori Rugby Board, hence Sharples wanting a Maori sport association to be set up.
“For Maori, the reluctance of the Maori Rugby Board to apologise underlines how they have lost touch with Maori community opinion, and failed to represent Maori rugby supporters.
“Perhaps the time has come for Maori, and the nation, to reconsider an idea promoted by the late Albie Pryor, Dr Henare Broughton and others, to set up a national Maori sporting administration, to be a voice for Maori in sport, and to work alongside and in conjunction with the Maori arms of national sports organisations to advance Maori sport,” Dr Sharples said.
Oh, this is just getting ridiculous. They claim to be against separatism, but their actions say something completely different.
And isn’t the Maori Rugby Board the…well….Maori Rugby Board? And they are the very ones who won’t apologize? As I said…the irony…
Unlike Kris I do not view this through a religious prism. I’m not interested in debates as to whether one god is vengeful or another has compassion and acceptance.
It’s that the Western reaction to one is standing up to it with gleeful mockery, while the reaction to the other is a pathetic submission combined with rationalisations about not judging “The Other”, and not ‘causing’ reactions.
That both responses are often sourced to the same well of post-modern leftism is the real issue for me.
Most of us in Canterbury/ Crusaders country would have preferred to see Hammett continue here for longer and although Mark was prevented from taking his talent to the Melbourne Franchise I think Big Bruv is stretching it to say he was forced on the Hurricanes. Who BB would you have wanted instead.
As for your childish comment on McCaw being a cheat why dont you listen to George Smith who plays the same game and at times does it better when he says he enjoys going head to head with the one HE regards as the best in the business.
“I’m not interested in debates as to whether one god is vengeful or another has compassion and acceptance.”
I wasn’t referring not to the Gods but rather the believers – one may be apathetic, while the other bunch seem to go ape.
“That both responses are often sourced to the same well of post-modern leftism is the real issue for me.”
That is because political correctness is really about covering your own butt, and that proves needless in one case [Christian], and necessary in the other [Islam].
Most of us in Canterbury/ Crusaders country would have preferred to see Hammett continue here for longer and although Mark was prevented from taking his talent to the Melbourne Franchise I think Big Bruv is stretching it to say he was forced on the Hurricanes. Who BB would you have wanted instead.
Someone with some experience who has won something. A coach who has got their club to the finals and has shown he/she can get them up for a win.
People who have spent their entire brief careers as asisstants are not qualified for head coach positions.
Great ideas SB so who did Big Bruv accuse of Forcing the Hurricanes board to take Hammett, Have they not the balls to say no we want someone such as you suggest.
I felt sorry that Coopers coaching stint disolved so sadly last night.
What would Ewen McKenzie do with the current Waratahs talent list and will their board give the present incumbant a fair go. Deans must be more than a little pleased to see the strong showing by the Aussie super teams.
[Tom Hunter:] “That both responses are often sourced to the same well of post-modern leftism is the real issue for me.”
That is because political correctness is really about covering your own butt, and that proves needless in one case [Christian], and necessary in the other [Islam].
Yvette & Tom, surely if it was ONLY about covering one’s butt, like you said Yvette, and if this is needless as Christianity presents no threat, then WHY do you think some (secularist) people feel the need to persecute Christians/Christianity? Surely, as Tom alludes to, there must be ANOTHER reason why some secularists/leftists feel this need; and that it must be for more reasons than just simply holding a different set of values?
In contrast, most secularists essentially leave Hinduism (and most other religions) alone presumably because they see them as no threat. And of course in the case of Islam, which does threaten with violence, etc, they go one step further and actually appease it in the hope we (the West) will be left alone?
But if it was only a matter of both Christianity and Hinduism presenting no threat, why is there this differentiation in the way they are treated by secularists/leftists? Why do you think Christianity comes in for this SPECIAL attention in this regard?
[As a Christian I have my own views on why Christians/Christianity comes in for this sort of attention/persecution - the Bible alludes to it as well]
It is interesting that some people (such as Ryan Sproull who you quoted) consider the highly critical attitudes of people like myself towards Islam, and the teachings and person of Mohammed, will inevitably lead to so called moderate Muslims becoming radicalised.
Kris, I said that if everyone treated Kiwi Muslims with the suspicion and accusation you do, it would probably radicalise some Muslims. Please don’t distort or exaggerate what I said.
The same would be true of any minority group, if they were treated with that level of universal contempt and distrust.
But if it was only a matter of both Christianity and Hinduism presenting no threat, why is there this differentiation in the way they are treated by secularists/leftists? Why do you think Christianity comes in for this SPECIAL attention in this regard?
In India, it’s the Hindu gurus who are subject to the most severe treatment by Indian secularists. Why do you think Hinduism gets special attention from secularists in India while Christianity is mostly ignored?
Kris, I said that if everyone treated Kiwi Muslims with the suspicion and accusation you do, it would probably radicalise some Muslims. Please don’t distort or exaggerate what I said.
Ryan, as I didn’t say ‘all’ I thought the ‘some’ was automatically implied. And what if only 90% “treated Kiwi Muslims with the suspicion and accusation [I] do”, would that mean less than ‘some’ would become radicalised Muslims?
Ryan Sproull 2:06 pm
In India, it’s the Hindu gurus who are subject to the most severe treatment by Indian secularists. Why do you think Hinduism gets special attention from secularists in India while Christianity is mostly ignored?
As we are considering this in the context of the West I’m really not too interested in what happens in India.
As we are considering this in the context of the West I’m really not too interested in what happens in India.
Fair enough. The reason’s still about the same, though, I reckon.
Ryan, as I didn’t say ‘all’ I thought the ’some’ was automatically implied. And what if only 90% “treated Kiwi Muslims with the suspicion and accusation [I] do”, would that mean less than ’some’ would become radicalised Muslims?
Possibly. Imagine how you would feel in a similar situation.
Note also the difference between being critical of Islam and Mohammed, and treating everyone in a group as if they’re sneakily pretending to be nice law-abiding citizens actually waiting for their chance to be horrible violent folk. It’s not the disagreement that I think causes trouble. I disagree with Islam myself. It’s treating the people themselves as if they’re evil untrustworthy fiends that I think causes trouble.
It is only one item in a great number of things that causes trouble, of course. But in the context of my comments, I was responding to the accusation that arguing with an evangelical Christian is a waste of time. It may well be, but I believe that addressing and confronting such views is worthwhile.
Just to be clear again: it’s not the view that Islam is incorrect with which I’m disagreeing. It’s the view that moderate Muslims are shifty sleeper agents that I am addressing.
Well, there is one small step forward.
It used to be that when you typed into the Google panel CHRISTIANITY IS …
it came up with a list of deprecating possibilities.
Same when you typed in Bhuddism is …
But with Islam is … there was NOTHING!
Now however Islam cops it along equally with the others –
islam is
bullshit
google
nothing
false
a cult
a lie
of the devil
wrong
not a religion
But in the context of my comments, I was responding to the accusation that arguing with an evangelical Christian is a waste of time.
And no doubt many would agree that arguing with an evangelical Christian is a waste of time in ANY context.
Just to be clear again: it’s not the view that Islam is incorrect with which I’m disagreeing. It’s the view that moderate Muslims are shifty sleeper agents that I am addressing.
Once again, as Islam becomes more established, the true intent of Islam becomes more apparent – that being the move towards establishing a global Islamic hegemony invariably by violent and intimidatory means. The fact than no Muslim will deny this reveals they are complicit in the intentions and aims of Islam. To be honest, Ryan, the only Muslim I would truly trust is one who has become a genuine Christian convert.
I point you to my post the other day when I outlined the case for Taqiyya — Islamic Religious Deception – I suggest you read it again in light of what I’ve just said.
The fact than no Muslim will deny this reveals they are complicit in the intentions and aims of Islam.
Please. Even if they denied it – and I’m sure plenty do – you’d just see that as further evidence of their shifty lying ways. It’s not possible for evidence to arise that would change your mind. You’ve closed the door on the possibility of being wrong about one-sixth of all people on the planet, closed the door on ever getting to know those people, being able to share in their lives, their fears, their joys, their suffering. It’s just so tremendously sad. And it’s happening all the time, everywhere.
Kiwiblog has become a drain on me. I think originally I was trying to be a good example, someone clearly left-wing who could engage respectfully and reasonably. I consciously used my real name from the beginning, to remind myself that I was as accountable for anything I said here as I would be saying it in person. Obviously, I fucked up a bunch of times, and if I didn’t apologise then, I apologise now. I’ve tried to ignore personal attacks and address only the content of people’s arguments, and to ignore posts that had no content at all. Not always easy.
The desire to win arguments is hard to resist as well. Nothing good comes from it, but it’s there, tempting away, wanting to have the last word, never wanting some misrepresentation of my words to go unanswered. It’s absurd.
Anyway. 3809 is enough. I’m on wataki at gmail, always up for a chat over a beer. Going to see if I can’t direct some time/energy into my own poor neglected blog and write something constructive for once. Keep well, and God bless.
I’ve tried to ignore personal attacks and address only the content of people’s arguments, and to ignore posts that had no content at all. Not always easy.
But which nevertheless you always succeeded in every post I ever read from you. Sorry to read about your decision, you’ve made a valuable contribution to this blog, and I’ll miss you, especially the next time Israel comes up
Please. Even if they denied it – and I’m sure plenty do – you’d just see that as further evidence of their shifty lying ways. It’s not possible for evidence to arise that would change your mind. You’ve closed the door on the possibility of being wrong about one-sixth of all people on the planet, closed the door on ever getting to know those people, being able to share in their lives, their fears, their joys, their suffering. It’s just so tremendously sad. And it’s happening all the time, everywhere.
I’m sorry, Ryan, but I can only say it as I see it. A religion/philosophy based on the writings of someone (Mohammed) who was quite clearly “shifty” and “lying” (not to mention all the other things attributed to him) will itself be accused of those same qualities, as will anyone who follows such a belief system. Hence my regarding Muslims as atypically “shifty” and “lying”.
In the same way as I would generally attribute to Christians those qualities which the Bible speaks of being inherent in their Lord and Saviour. They are afterall instructed to become increasingly Christlike. In my case I don’t always measure up, but I certainly try to live my life in that way.
Kiwiblog has become a drain on me. I think originally I was trying to be a good example, someone clearly left-wing who could engage respectfully and reasonably. I consciously used my real name from the beginning, to remind myself that I was as accountable for anything I said here as I would be saying it in person. Obviously, I fucked up a bunch of times, and if I didn’t apologise then, I apologise now. I’ve tried to ignore personal attacks and address only the content of people’s arguments, and to ignore posts that had no content at all. Not always easy.
The desire to win arguments is hard to resist as well. Nothing good comes from it, but it’s there, tempting away, wanting to have the last word, never wanting some misrepresentation of my words to go unanswered. It’s absurd.
Anyway. 3809 is enough. I’m on wataki at gmail, always up for a chat over a beer. Going to see if I can’t direct some time/energy into my own poor neglected blog and write something constructive for once. Keep well, and God bless.
I’m sorry you feel that way, Ryan. And as Reid just mentioned, you certainly make a valuable contribution here. I know many here, whether they use their real names, pseudonyms, or contractions (as in my case) still hold themselves accountable for what they write. My main reason for not using my full name is primarily because of my opinions regarding Islam, and the threat I believe it is to to the West, and indeed the entire globe. I really do not want to open myself up to becoming a target of some offended Muslim with a grudge against me for what I may have said about his belief system.
I trust you’ll reconsider your above decision, and will continue to contribute here. And on a personal note, may I say I have enjoyed many of our discussions, irrespective of which side of the fence we may reside on on a particular topic.
kris – out of the 1 billion people that identify as islamic.. how many do you think are actually real followers? ya cant label em all. id say 10% though
its like christains. how many identify as a christian, but dont follow your holier than thou approach to life!?
kris – out of the 1 billion people that identify as islamic.. how many do you think are actually real followers? ya cant label em all. id say 10% though
its like christains. how many identify as a christian, but dont follow your holier than thou approach to life!?
I’m sure there are many ‘Muslims’ who only identify themselves that way for fear of the alternatives if they didn’t. Of course once you are a Muslim, if you convert to another faith, or simply leave Islam it is beholden on your next of kin to take your life. Islam is a religion of fear and intimidation. But regarding actual numbers; I have no idea.
Regarding Christians; those who put their faith and trust solely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ for their salvation, and acknowledge Him as God, and proclaim that He rose from the dead – they are Christians in the biblical sense. Whether they hold my particulars views outside of that is another matter entirely. But just for the record, any views I may hold on morality and values I draw from God’s word either directly, or in principle.
I did it again watched the bloody news, 16 year old girl sales around the world, good effort and then theres that smug bastard Rudd with his sanctimonious grin that makes even Michael Cullen look sincere.
I will never learn. Stupid stupid
Ryan Just dont take stuff so seriously, if you’ve been married for any length of time you will know you win bugger all arguments anyway and you’re not a chick so you don’t have to have the last word, this place isnt draining its comic relief, interspersed with a couple of very scary individuals
@dime – there is (or should be!) a difference between declaring the truth, and judging someone who may have rejected it. For my part I leave the latter to God. In any case, if you feel judged it might be conviction.. and that could be the start of good thing!
@Ryan – I’ll be sad to see you go. You have a fabulous, enquiring mind and kiwiblog will be the worse for your departure. Reconsider? … and/or pay us a visit sometime.
Maybe you will miss the news tomorrow Pauleastbay. I closed my ears and eyes to all of it. Good on the girl for doing it but the media have been raving for a week or more.
Did that cog sucker Krudd put out a pink carpet across the fucking bridge? would not surprise me.
@Ryan Sproull: Pity. You don’t seem to rant at people and usually have an intelligent and well-thought out perspective. Kiwiblog will be a lesser place.
I was quite proud of this post the other day but never received any replies/rebuttals worthy of serious consideration, so I am reposting in the hope (possibly forlorn) of debate on details without descending into the usual personal abuse this site revels in.
I wrote: An interesting comparison springs to mind.
On the one hand we have Tuhoe, the undisputed indigenous occupiers of the Ureweras, with proven uninterrupted habitation of the land since humans first set foot in the area, wrongfully dispossessed of their land by European colonisers but who never deserted their land, who offer to enshrine forever right of access even to the colonisers descendants and live in peace, who will kill or dispossess not one person, and who ask only for a largely symbolic vesting of “ownership” of their ancestral lands.
And we say no.
On the other hand we have another bunch of European colonisers, who claim ownership of a tiny sliver of land far, far away from their own ancestral lands, who killed and terrorised the existing indigenous population, and continue to do so to this day, built up a fearsome war machine with which to terrorise the neighbouring countries and many more, who qualify in every way for the tag of rogue state, and ask for all this to be legitimised on the basis of a proven myth (ie fiction) of occupation 2000 years ago.
And we say yes.
One may ask, how are these examples of clear injustice and hypocrisy and ongoing dispossession and oppression and casual murder justified?
The answer, I’m afraid is simple, and is exhibited on this blog and many similar others every day – racism.
Now I admit I have presented no evidence for my conclusion, but I think it’s pretty well self evident. Don’t you?
“..My main reason for not using my full name is primarily because of my opinions regarding Islam, and the threat I believe it is to to the West, and indeed the entire globe…”
bullshit..!
it is because you peddle skin-crawling vile hatreds..that any ‘human’ would run from holding/parroting..
..it’s more ‘shame’..than ‘fear’….eh..?
mind you..you are a very very scared little-person..aren’t you..?
..hiding away in yr little-fantasy-world..
..with yr ‘friends-in-the-sky’…eh..?
(ooh..!..i can’t give my name..!..the islamic-boogey-man will come and get me…!’)
don’t we have laws against individuals peddling the racial/religious-division/hatred that you do…?
It’s quite worrying to see the degree of Muslim bashing on this site. I’m not suggesting DPF censors these contributions, I’m just suggesting that these ignorant rantings are symptoms of increasingly strident calls by the West, whether secularist or Christian) for what amount to a new Crusade, the tenth (ironic number, in this binary age) against Islam.
I fear for the people of Iran, who will probably be the victims of one of the earliest climate wars motivated by the addiction of the US to black tea – Texas gold. These unfortunate people saw their hugely popular, democratically elected PM (a Time Man of the Year) overthrown by a joint CIA-British coup and thrown to the very non-tender mercies of the Shah (at least 20,000 Iranians murdered by his US trained Savak secret police goons) and then from one frying pan into another with the rise of the radical clerics (although, in my worldview, all clerics are radical, including your local parish priest/minister/pastor/bishop…).
And all they want is to be like us and be our friends.
But they don’t stand a chance. Our oil is under their dirt, and we (and Israel, who are also getting desperate for water, but that’s another story) are coming to get it, no matter what.
Luc Hansen,
You use racism as an excuse for socialism in NZ. All land has been won by conquest. Humans fight for control.
I was born here, my father was born here, my grandfather came here about 1919.
I am as indigenous as any man that walks this land. You forget Maori came here and conquered others.
So after 160 years why do I have to pay for the lifestyles of lazy bleeders who think I owe them a living? There is only one reason, VOTES. Labour and National both suck up to the Maori minority.
Don’t get me wrong, I have many Maori friends and relatives, I just don’t want to pay for the lazy bastards.
We had Maori Wars once, Maori can go back and Govern themselves, but do not ask for money, they use their own money and welfare system. I will not pay
I think originally I was trying to be a good example, someone clearly left-wing who could engage respectfully and reasonably. I consciously used my real name from the beginning, to remind myself that I was as accountable for anything I said here as I would be saying it in person. Obviously, I fucked up a bunch of times, and if I didn’t apologise then, I apologise now. I’ve tried to ignore personal attacks and address only the content of people’s arguments, and to ignore posts that had no content at all. Not always easy.
Your respectful and reasonable engagement was noted, and I saw that that it was rooted in, as you say, you’re ignoring personal attacks and addressing only the content. That was perhaps the most obvious aspect of your comments. I also appreciated that you posted under your own name – owning your comments – though I understand why some people want to be anonymous.
The desire to win arguments is hard to resist as well. Nothing good comes from it, but it’s there, tempting away, wanting to have the last word, never wanting some misrepresentation of my words to go unanswered. It’s absurd.
Ideas have consequences, it’s important to argue them, and trying to win gives any argument a decided edge over some above-it-all stance. We make our points and walk away for a bit, even with the misrepresentation sometimes left intact.
But as you say – with 3804 comments perhaps it is time to give it a rest and focus on your own blog. Best of luck – especially with building the libertarian socialist community
Starboard, no problem. Pay the money, I’ll book the ticket.
But for my wife and family, I’m afraid to say, I will have to fund my return and I promise I will give you a full rundown of my findings before anyone else.
To be honest, Ryan, the only Muslim I would truly trust is one who has become a genuine Christian convert.
Yeah, I know. Many has been the time we’ve been at an international meeting or expedition with Muslim colleagues. It gets so tiresome the way they keep dashing off- trying to run into buildings strapped with explosives- so hard to get anything done really. And if you’ve got to share a room with them, they’re always trying to stab you in the middle of the night. So annoying.
Thank you for the kind words, but let’s address the issues, shall we?
It’s true most borders are drawn by conquest (or by natural barriers, like the sea and mountains) but that doesn’t make them set in stone. The modern view is that acquiring land by conquest is inadmissable (see UNGA 242). Furthermore, if you care to look around, you will see many examples of reversals of conquests (most of the countries admitted to the UN since WWII are ex-colonies). Also, even where the borders don’t change and the colonisers don’t leave, the locals regain their rights.
So in NZ, this will increasingly mean the transfer back to Maori of significant degrees of autonomy. And to think that this is done for votes is just plain stupidity. Think about it. Bolger and Graham had to work hard to keep voters on side as they began the really meaningful settlement processes – and they did it because it was the right thing to do – and now the gutless Key and his top henchmen have backed down on what would have been an enlightened and just vesting to Tuhoe of their ancestral lands.
Finally, sorry, Steve, you, like I, although born here, do no rank as indigenous. Look up the definition of the word.
Hansen,
Indigenous = originating in and characteristic of a particular region or country. I was born here.
Don’t go back too far sunshine, you may find you are related to Apes.
As far as NZ is concerned you also need another lesson, Geology, NZ was not always above water.
Atlantis going up for the last time.
Check out the supersonic pulsing of the rocket exhaust to the right of the launch pad after the solid fuel boosters ignite.
……. who offer to enshrine forever right of access even to the colonisers descendants and live in peace, who will kill or dispossess not one person, and who ask only for a largely symbolic vesting of “ownership” of their ancestral lands…….
Obviously you have never wanted to go for a hunt in the park during growing season, access is not that easy , if ownership was handed over even on paper it would be the best excuse for a minority to stop all access for everyone.
I live in the area and its not all nice because you have extremists within Tuhoe as you do within the Jihadists.
Your view is unsophisticated on both issues, there are no easy answers when there are extremists involved because you cannot reason with extremists.
That’s a shame. Take care Ryan. I’ve really enjoyed your insights and you did succeed in setting an excellent example for civilised and intelligent debate.
Now who’s going to remind us that we can’t get an ‘ought’ from an ‘is’?
“enshrine forever right of access even to the colonisers descendants”
They themselves are descendents of colonisers also.
I also find it ironic you argue for some form of atonement for occurrences far in the past as what, some kind of moral imperative that should be obeyed? If there is some moral imperative it should apply equally to descendants of all groups regardless as to how long ago it occurred and regardless of the scope and scale. If you feel that is ridiculous then you should be consistent.
Great reading for anyone who has time. This piece on papers taken from the Soviet archives and held by refugees to the West is superb reading. It comes through Arts and Letters Daily, Denis Dutton’s great internet site. Highly, highly recommended to all.
Did Gorbachev laugh about the shooting down of the Korean airliner? It’s here.
Steve, again, you are simply self serving with your definition. The term indigenous also includes first occupiers. We do not rank as indigenous in any internationally understood sense of the word. And we all have something like like 98% DNA in common with apes. But wallow in your delusions, by all means.
JiveKitty – unless you ascribe human status to the various species that inhabited NZ before humans arrived (yes, early Maori were humans also) Maori did not colonise the land, they discovered it. They have rights, recognised at international level, and international bodies are increasingly dominated by ex-colonies and indigenous and are increasingly asserting their rights.
Paul, I do know the area, I have strong connections there, I hunted there before I gave it up, and understand quite well the dynamics that have led to what you call extremist. It’s what generations of oppression and dispossession does to people. You should try it sometime.
And I call extremist the top cops that sent in a bunch of wound-up young cops looking for someone to shoot in that infamous raid that will remain forever a blight on our society. Do you not understand that your stance is extremist? Your conflation of Tuhoe with Islamic resistance to western occupiers is indicative of your world view – sophisticated, oppressive, unjust, selfish.
First time I’ve read anyone on Kiwiblog quoting themselves and praising their own post.
But congratulations for bringing Tuhoe, Israel, and Hitler into the thread when it was discussing Muslims. You forgot about Torquemada, the Ku Klux Klan, Al Qaeda, Pol Pot, and the genocide of the Armenians. Under Godwins Law, when you bring up Hitler or Nazi-ism that’s supposed to be your last post on the matter.
Interestingly, Lucy, in one of your posts above in the thread you said:
…the tenth (ironic number, in this binary age)
Why is it ironic? Tenth in binary is just 1010, that is one-zero-one-zero, no “ten” about it.
And is it really a binary age? A lot of the code underlying our software is in hexadecimal. In “hex”, ten is just “A”.
I’ve just had a great idea. We take every progressive/socialists/butthurt Labourite and the rest and stick them all on an island in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
Re your 9.26 – I wouldn’t waste too much time on the “indigenous” argument.
Now that the British National Party are on the “Indigenous” wagon, claiming rights as the indigenous people of the British Isles, Sharples and Co. at UN conferences may soon be rubbing shoulders with these neo-fascists.
The whole “indigenous” movement will then fade away.
As for our suggestion in an earlier post that the Israelis are European colonisers, do you include the darkish skinned Jews from North Africa and the black-skinned Israelis from Ethiopia in your generalisation? I think you will find that there are strong DNA Middle-Eastern links in the Israelis from Europe. Ironically, they and the Palestinian Arabs are likely to be very closely related in DNA. Now that’s irony!
There were no wound up young cops, no one was shot, its not infamous
Much better if you just keep praising your own posts quoting your posts and stroking yourself generally. I fucked up twice tonight firstly watching the news and secondly reading any of your comments. Even the idiot with the full stop compulsion makes more sense than you most of the time
I am really trying not to finish this by suggesting you are a sad anti-semetic onanist, but WTF
Ryan has Sproulled the ell out of aar… @ 4:03 pm
Hell!.. want miss him taking his followers with him down the left side of highway one..
Christians have a habit of been born again..
Lets hope and pray Ryan is born again on the right side of highway one or at least the middle and returns back to save another day..
Your intellect and knowledge will be missed.. Ryan.
“JiveKitty – unless you ascribe human status to the various species that inhabited NZ before humans arrived (yes, early Maori were humans also) Maori did not colonise the land, they discovered it. They have rights, recognised at international level, and international bodies are increasingly dominated by ex-colonies and indigenous and are increasingly asserting their rights.”
So Maoris are full-blooded now? Like I said, descendents of colonisers too.
Rights are a construct conferred by society. What’s your point? It doesn’t mean the reason/s they have been conferred are particularly close to objective truth inasmuch as it can be known. With highly political and politicised organisations such as the UN – to whom I assume you are referring – there even seems to be a tendency to prefer the subjective narrative over the facts more likely to be close to the objective.
You also failed to address my point re: moral imperative of atonement.
If you prefer imperatives imposed by contractual obligations – in particular the Treaty of Waitangi – you also run into obvious problems there primarily in that if you are going to treat it as a contract you must limit it to the parties it pertained to and there must be clear knowledge of the obligations it gives, which in truth, nobody has. You also don’t have distinct parties separate from each other, but that’s probably not an insurmountable problem.
Leonardis, Moriori are a Maori sub-tribe who landed on the Chathams at some stage during the Polynesian migration and developed in isolation for hundreds of years. You should read Michael King’s book on the Moriori and get enlightened.
Jack5 – there you go again, spouting nonsense. The original Zionists were the Ashkenazi jews from Europe who have almost no more genetic relation to the Middle East than I do. They were/are just European colonisers, pure and simple.
Kim Hill makes me wonder what her angle on this is when I hear her consistently parading the Holocaust as justification for the dispossession of the then 500,000 odd Palestinians. There is a serious disconnect of logic in her reasoning.
And sure, non-European Jews have always lived in the land and also arrived after the Zionists, but they are a minority in Israel, and a minority that is largely marginalised in that society – check out their ethnicity-based socio-economic stats sometime.
By the way, for the purposes of Kiwiblog, 1010 is close enough to 10 to make my point of historical continuity. Split Enz were wrong – if you take their words at face value.
Paul – carry on believing what you want to believe, the world is moving past your white supremacist views. I stand by my view that it was lucky no-one was killed by the cops that day. The excuse was flimsy, the execution was extremely violent. I’ve listened to the stories and I remain disgusted by the behaviour of our cops.
And it’s so easy, isn’t it, to throw the anti-Semitic jibe. Do you know that Semite is a language group, not an ethnicity? Do you know that Arabs are Semites?
Neither am I anti-Jew. I am not religious, but everyone has a right to their religion of choice. I am against Zionism, but even that issue is passe in the face of facts on the ground. I am against the casual murder and imprisonment without charges or trial that characterises Israel’s racist polices and actions against Palestinians. The fact that Israel’s actions are not only condoned, but encouraged by the West reflects badly on us as humans.
But then, racist, European colonisers have always had to be dragged into philosophical modernity anyway – always the laggard.
JiveKitty – United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Read the text. Stop living in the colonialist mindset. And you clearly misunderstand the true significance of the treaty, which was a concession by Maori for we Europeans to come and live with them and which we then abused in a clear breach of trust. Your view is not only restrictive in a self-serving sense, but also one not subscribed to by successive governments in recent times.
dispossession of the then 500,000 odd Palestinians
Yawn. Tenement farmers who had their leases terminated and the land sold from beneath them by their Arab ‘brothers’. But don’t believe this, because it might lessen the hatred and malice that drips from every one of your comments. You clearly enjoy those attributes being part of your personal brand.
Another thing that pisses me off is the notion, advanced by bleeding-heart, liberal idiots, that someone with fractional Maori blood is somehow entitled to apartheid-like treatment here. My father’s family arrived in NZ in 1840, my mother’s family in 1852 and all but two my forebears were born and raised in our country. Yes, our country. Yet I regard myself as no more entitled to special treatment than is someone who was grated their citizenship yesterday
I’m proud of my heritage, and of the opportunities that are available to all NZer. I’m disappointed that some choose not to take up these opportunities, but I won’t be made to feel guilty for that.
Luc Hansen, and other prompters of the guilt industry are the ones responsible for holding Maori back. They say “You can’t move forward, because the white man has oppressed you. Wait there and we’ll help you out”.. yet their brand of help is nothing but a ticket to wallowing self-pity and dependence. Luc Hansen, it is you and your ilk who are oppressing the Maori people.
And sure, non-European Jews have always lived in the land and also arrived after the Zionists, but they are a minority in Israel, and a minority that is largely marginalised in that society – check out their ethnicity-based socio-economic stats sometime.
I’m intrigued that, by your definition, many of the Maori tribes could never count as indigenous, having displaced earlier occupiers of the land. All the stories of Tainui, for example, describe the conquest, killing, and eating of the original tangata whenua. You must surely be aware that even Maori historians like Ranganui Walker describe the period of Polynesian settlement as being in waves, and taking place over several hundred years.
So, here’s my question to you. If a Maori tribe like Tainui comes and attains its lands via conquest, and then more by conquest (north towards the Hauraki), how on earth do you describe them as “indigenous’?? Because if you include the those that gained by war or extermination into your definition, then you need include a whole lot of peoples, including, I would imagine, the current inhabitants of Tasmania. In the Chathams, would you accord indigenous status to the descendents of ngati mutunga and ngati tama, who killed some 19/20ths of the occupying Mori Ori and assumed control of these lands. And, if not, why not?
Your rhetoric here – I won’t yet call it debate – appears to me to be romantic, poorly considered, and altogether incoherent. Could you please outline for us what constitutes indigeneity (and what does not) in your moral theory? I would be most interested.
Lucy Hansen, proclaiming he doesn’t hate Jews, at 11.31, posted:
…the Ashkenazi jews from Europe who have almost no more genetic relation to the Middle East than I do….
Note Lucy doesn’t give Jews a capital “J”.
His ad hominem argument (“there you go again, spouting nonsense”) and repeated proclamations he isn’t opposed to Jews – only to Zionists – ring hollow.
Consider these quotes from Wikipedia and judge for yourself whether Lucy is bigoted:
…An Ashkenazi Jew is one whose ancestry can be traced to the Jews of Central and Eastern Europe. For roughly a thousand years, the Ashkenazim were a reproductively isolated population in Europe, despite living in many countries, with little inflow or outflow from migration, conversion, or intermarriage with other groups, including other Jews. Human geneticists have identified genetic variations that have high frequencies among Ashkenazi Jews, but not in the general European population. This is true for patrilineal markers (Y-chromosome haplotypes) as well as for matrilineal markers (mitochondrial haplotypes)…
And…
…A study by Michael Seldin, a geneticist at the University of California Davis School of Medicine, found Ashkenazi Jews to be a clear, relatively homogenous genetic subgroup. Strikingly, regardless of the place of origin, Ashkenazi Jews can be grouped in the same genetic cohort — that is, regardless of whether an Ashkenazi Jew’s ancestors came from Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania, or any other place with a historical Jewish population, they belong to the same ethnic group. The research demonstrates the endogamy of the Jewish population in Europe ..
And Lucy, 1010 binary is 10 decimal, not “close enough to 10″.
Luc doesn’t know a thing about these “Jews” that he puts down… he just has shown his complete ignorance. That and that embarassing gaff on the demographics of Israel…..
“It’s quite worrying to see the degree of Muslim bashing on this site.”
Worrying? The Islamo-fascists are savages that must be exposed.
Any appeasement of the kind you indulge in will only encourage these intolerant, violent criminals.
I have to take issue with Shunda on his following comment where he accuses me of the following:
Shunda barunda [GD May 15th, 2010 at 8:20 pm],
“Hey Kris, is that like the only good nigger is a dead nigger or the only good Injun is a dead ‘un?”
Kris, I am afraid he has a point.
Shunda was referring to an earlier comment by Luc who quoted me – of course Luc quoted just one sentence without the benefit of the context of my complete comment. I expect this from Luc, but I expect better from Shunda. Here’s Luc’s comment:
Luc Hansen [GD May 15th, 2010 at 7:37 pm],
Says the oh-so Christian Kris K: to be honest, Ryan, the only Muslim I would truly trust is one who has become a genuine Christian convert.
Hey Kris, is that like the only good nigger is a dead nigger or the only good Injun is a dead ‘un?
You would have fitted in with Hitler so well…
So apparently Shunda agrees with Luc in his assertion that my statement regarding me not trusting Muslims IS THE SAME AS someone stating, “the only good nigger is a dead nigger”.
Unbelievable!
I may not trust a twice convicted pedophile with my kids either, but that doesn’t imply I wish him dead. Nor can my not trusting anyone, Muslim or otherwise, be reasonably compared to, by implication, my wishing death on any ethnic group.
Why do some people around here specialise in making aspersions and character assasinations, rather than address the content of what others may say?
Once again, unbelievable! – and I do expect better from you, Shunda; epecially as a professed Christain.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:24 am
David, why did you use the OIA to try and get information on people that had made legitimate requests of the government?
[DPF: I think sunlight is the best disinfectant when people lie]
May 15th, 2010 at 8:32 am
David, I don’t care why you did it, if you did it. What I want to know is why all these muppets think that discovering anything that is accessible under the OIA is a problem.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:32 am
To the stranded git.
Probably because he was interested!!
May 15th, 2010 at 8:52 am
The contributors to The Standard have an amazing ability to take any issue and make themselves look like total idiots. They surpass even Phil Goff in this.
79 comments of rage and bigotry over DPF making a legitimate request of the government. Get over yourselves you pea brained losers.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:53 am
@ M@tt – because he could!
Get over it; he won, you lost etc etc
May 15th, 2010 at 8:54 am
Hey I know, lets talk about god instead?
or phool?
May 15th, 2010 at 8:59 am
..or climate change…
May 15th, 2010 at 9:04 am
….anything but the fucking Hurricanes….
May 15th, 2010 at 9:07 am
The teachers probably got some inspiration for stand over tactics from their ‘public service’ colleagues in Greece.
Has any candidate ever lied more than Obama did during his campaign? The only hope he has given America is for the next election.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Awesome video for all the nerds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNyE2xExktA
May 15th, 2010 at 9:10 am
Brian>What I want to know is why all these muppets think that discovering anything that is accessible under the OIA is a problem.
The answer is in your question: Muppets! Not often you can summarise an issue so succinctly.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:13 am
New topic for a mo…
Topical question: Is Pita Sharples confused about apartheid? Is he now actually advocating neo-apartheid?
The question arises from his call on the TTVNZ (Tabloid Television NZ) late news on Friday night for Maori to have a separate rugby union from the NZRFU. This is an example of the race-separation policies he and the Maori Party seek, and which Bro. Key gives credence to through his coalition.
The Shorter Oxford Dictionary definition of apartheid includes:
The “other” referred to, of course is, South Africa’s apartheid system.
It is ironic that Sharples so quickly steps from calls for apologies for apartheid discrimination against Maori rugby players to a call for apartheid within NZ rugby.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:17 am
Given the way the May 12 GD thread ended pretty much with this quote from Ryan Sproull:
….not to mention similar debates in the GD yesterday – I thought I’d throw a little more fuel on the fire with the following article: What Did You Say About Muhammad?!
Two quotes from it were notable. Here’s the first:
If you thought Kris K was confrontational you should check out what they’re saying in the Middle East. I’m amazed al-Haya has not been burned to the ground, which leads to the second quote:
May 15th, 2010 at 9:21 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10645099
Once again it appears John Cun… I mean John Key is going to shaft middle NZ – tax cuts for everyone but people earning from $48,000-to-$70,000. I still cannot get over the fact that total government spending in NZ equates to near on 45% of GDP, whereas 5 years ago it was about 10% lower than that but they cannot find any room to cut spending significantly.
This guy is an utter weasel. Every significant policy National had before the election has been dismissed by him or Binglish as “aspirational”.
I just hope that the herald is living up to the crap paper it is and has it all wrong… again.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:23 am
Reaction to the latest serving of the U.S. Cap and Trade Bill before the house
“The global temperature “savings” of the Kerry-Lieberman bill is astoundingly small—0.043°C (0.077°F) by 2050 and 0.111°C (0.200°F) by 2100. In other words, by century’s end, reducing U.S. greenhouse gas emissions by 83% will only result in global temperatures being one-fifth of one degree Fahrenheit less than they would otherwise be. That is a scientifically meaningless reduction.”
I guess they haven’t been speaking to either Nick or John…
http://www.masterresource.org/2010/05/the-american-power-act-a-climate-dud
May 15th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Charlie Brown —-I would think it in evitable that the public spending would remin lagrely constant becuase we are all here needing it whereas the governments income has declined due to ecconomic conditions … as conditions get better it should decline as a percentage with a National government. “The light at the end of the tunnel” ?
May 15th, 2010 at 9:39 am
Income Tax
Over the past two days I become worried by a new development I have observed about our Inland Revenue Department.
If taxpayers strictly observe the law, and the Department disagree with them, they will think it unfair and force the taxpayers to pay in excess of $100,000 in legal fees to pursue the case to the High Court.
The Department know that few taxpayers have that sort of disposable cash, so they continue to bully people, even though those people have strictly adhered to the law.
There is an extremely pungent smell to all of this.
I regret that I am unable to go into exact details on these matters which involve livestock and bloodstock.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:46 am
Well Big Bruv, The only shred of credibility for lil old NZ left in super rugby is those useless bloody Crusaders, their useless bloody captain and their useless bloody coach. At least if the Useless bloody Hurricanes had been the standard bearer for this country The Useless Bloody Crusaders Fans would have given token support to them and wished them well in the playoffs. And Your team was? – or are you just going to do what the Saffas used to do and claim the super rugby comp a crock of shit because they couldn’t compete.
Go the useless bloody CRUSADERS.
BTW I see the Hurricanes have stolen Hammett for next year as head coach .
May 15th, 2010 at 9:54 am
I was amused by this LRO comment yesterday:
Presumably snide remarks, a sneering tone, mockery and constant implications that one’s opponents are evil or stupid or ignorant (preferably all three) – in short the standard approach of the left wing over the last few decades – does not count as abuse.
Perhaps LRO might consider asking the targets of that approach whether they think it’s abusive.
Which led to Scott’s comment:
To be more precise it’s anyone who does not toe the Left’s line of the day – which includes more than a few Lefties, as John Campbell found out in the Corngate scandal and Chris Hitchens found out during the Iraq war.
Which is why it was interesting to see this article in the Guardian of all places – Southern Comfort
My favourite quote from it is this one:
May 15th, 2010 at 9:58 am
We should all work and give all our income to the government to run this lefty handout country, oh thats right, we already do do that.
Fuck me, it is so easy to get all bitter and twisted…..
All I can say is, I wish Sharples and his fellow Moree’s would “Look back but dont stare”
New Zealand is becoming or has become a back water, we are half way down the slippery slope to total 3rd World.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:00 am
Gravedodger
We have not “stolen” Hammett, we have had him imposed upon us.
Wellington Rugby had had a succession of fucking useless Cantab coaches, we do not want them nor are they welcome.
I am glad that you have seen the light in as much as you admit that your captain is a useless cheat, while I did not watch the game I imagine that he was once again outplayed by George Smith.
As for your “token support”, thanks but no thanks, that kind of support is not what anybody wants.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:01 am
YES!
A pefect Saturday morning;
The sky is blue, the sun is shining, the birds are singing, all is at peace with the world, the Crusaders last night showed once again that when the going gets tough the tough get going.
What happened to the Wellington Zephyrs?
May 15th, 2010 at 10:03 am
“Net gains for people in the $48,000-to-$70,000 tax bracket will be minimal because the 33c tax rate on income in that range is not expected to be cut to offset the GST price rises.”
It could be another infamous delivery from Neville Key, who continues to betray the very same people who elected him, i.e., the middle class of our country. Higher taxes for all and sundry, while money is given to the racists, e.g., Whanau Ora.
Quite a disgrace for the coward National Party, which, we know now, lied all the way during the election campaign.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:05 am
jcuknz – Why do we need the government to controll 45% of our income? It grew about 10% in one government term, how come we need it now but didn’t need it 5 years ago? Why do we need the government to take our money, filter it of and pay some back in the way of WFF (and that is if you are entitled to WFF)?. Labour must be thinking that John Key is the best thing for NZ, it looks like we are going to have three socialist governments in a row.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:07 am
What the hell is it with Maori?
Every week they are demanding another apology from the government, this time the male co leader of the apartheid party wants an apology from the crown for Maori being left out of All Black touring teams to South Africa.
Well if it is good enough for them it is good enough for me, I want…no, I DEMAND an apology from the crown for the nine years of hurt and pain caused by the Labour/Green government.
I want to hear the crown say “Sorry” for the corrupt reign of Klark and Kullen, I want to hear them admit that we have been butt fucked financially by those wankers and I demand that apology is given within the next two weeks.
Along with the apology I want compensation, $100 million should do it.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:07 am
Manolo – in saying that, I don’t think all the national party lied, I would have been confident Brash would have brought in what he said. Who reakons it was John Key who leaked all the personal information about Brash to the media? I reakon John Key might have been Nicky Hager’s insider. He seems slimey enough to have been that person.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:08 am
Tauhei Notts – I’m having a battle with IRD at the mo. Relates to year on year highly variable income and resulting provisional tax .. and penalties. The sum they’ve pinged me with and the estimated legal fees to prove said penalties are unlawful is about the same. Not happy.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:11 am
@tom hunter – yeah, I was listed as one of those ‘least tollerant and most abusive of posters’. *sigh*
May 15th, 2010 at 10:12 am
“I reckon John Key might have been Nicky Hager’s insider.”
It wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest, although Hager’s insider must have had some courage and mettle, qualities unknown to Neville Key.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:26 am
Krazy
It’s just the usual language control and debate framing, an almost instinctive feature with the left.
You’ll probably appreciate this video of New Jersey Governor Chris Christie having a crack some reporter who framed his question with the whine about Christie being confrontational
I guess it’s the Joisey accent and the body shape – but man this guy reminds me of Tony Soprano – in a good way
May 15th, 2010 at 10:28 am
Big News of the day.
Trevor Mallard
I’ve got a license to ride a bike.
http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/05/15/718258/#comments
May 15th, 2010 at 10:47 am
To Kris K, MikeNZ and all you others afraid of Islamic Terrorists, here is some good news for you.
Iran has executed notable terrorist Shirin Alam Holi. Maybe you can sleep easier now.
In addition to Shirin Alam Holi, a further 5 terrorists have been hanged. This must make you feel so much more comfortable, that Iran is making the world a safer palce, one hanging at a time.
For me, I’m saddened and support the terrorists and hope that many more like them will arise. They, along with the Waihopi Three, are the true heroes of our day.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:59 am
Yes they certainly achieved a lot didn’t they. The military-industrial complex really took a huge hit.
Seriously, how anyone with a 3-digit IQ can imagine the world would be a safer place if we didn’t have signals intelligence, is beyond me. You’d have to be an A-grade village idiot even to think that in the first place, let alone take action that exposed yourself to serious criminal charges without even having the hope that it would ever achieve anything material whatsoever.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Mick and M@tt – Some years back a OIA request was made seeking disclosure of my name with a view to a possible defamation suit in relation with my job. I was warned by the government agency that the request would be acceeded to and I told the company secretary. Nothing came of it as I would have been covered by qualified privilege. So what is the difference between that and DPF’s alleged sin?
May 15th, 2010 at 11:03 am
“..Who reakons it was John Key who leaked all the personal information about Brash to the media? I reakon John Key might have been Nicky Hager’s insider..”
he has always been top of my list of suspects…
as in..who had the most to gain from the fall of brash….?
a brash who had taken them within a breath of victory….
..and so was in a strong position/had support in his role..
..for the forseeable future..
it’s one of those ones you’d like key to do a lie-detector test on…
..(it’d be great telly..!..)
in fact…how about a show where ex-pollies are hooked up to lie detectors…?
and quizzed on their records/statements..
..most of them are hungry enough for another dollop of fame…
that they’d endure the pain/humiliation..
or..possible vindication…?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 15th, 2010 at 11:07 am
LeftBrainRightOut – you’ve hit a new low of making no sense whatsoever, even by your standards.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:10 am
LRO. r u joking..
May 15th, 2010 at 11:17 am
It always facisnates me the way the overstayers and the national socialists like to inject the word fright into their invective when views opposing theirs are expressed. As though we should all roll over. Prudence would be a more apt description
May 15th, 2010 at 11:18 am
He’s. being. sarcastic.
Except that in his case it’s probably what he really does think, so really it’s self-parody.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:19 am
@bigbruv: “….anything but the fucking Hurricanes….”
Agree. With specific reference to last night anyway.
As for Hammet, he was a munter as a player and I doubt he’ll be better as a coach. If we were going to take somebody from Canterbury, why couldn’t we get someone like Grizz? Probably too much balls. Plus he’s experienced as a head coach. Can’t have one of those!
Got to have a softly-softly approach here in Wellington. Can’t actually have players like Tialata, Weepu and Nonu turning up fit at the start of the season. Can’t have good discipline. It’d go against the flair we love to see from our players. Can’t have a great forward pack. That’d mean too much hard work and not enough glamour that comes from standing in the backline. Can’t have players not crying to the media about how they might leave the game because they’re not getting picked enough. They need to be able to express their emotions. Can’t drop underperforming stars. They bring the crowds, and they’ll get their form back. Got to take rugby academy boys regardless if there are more deserving players. No wonder a lot of Wellington talent goes elsewhere.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:37 am
to all Maori .. I’m sorry.
Right, lets get on with life and look forward and not back .. unless there is something else we honkies have done.
oh, I may have missed it BUT, when you consider what tribes did to each other before colonisation destroyed the fabric of their society, I would love to hear them publicly apologising to each other, that would be cool.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:39 am
LRO – hopefully you have some family holidaying overseas and some middle eastern terrorists blow them up. i just wanna see how conflicted you are then.. love of family vs white guilt.
notice i didnt say blown up in bali by muslims terrorists.. cause you hate asians..
ya fuckin weirdo
May 15th, 2010 at 11:43 am
LRO
Thanks for the link, what really disgusts me about that is the UN’s attempt to stop the executions.
Oh…and the bit about hoping the terrorists rise again….a pathetic attempt at trolling, you can do better than that.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:59 am
Tom Hunter 9:17 am,
It is interesting that some people (such as Ryan Sproull who you quoted) consider the highly critical attitudes of people like myself towards Islam, and the teachings and person of Mohammed, will inevitably lead to so called moderate Muslims becoming radicalised.
While in contrast the article you linked to ( What Did You Say About Muhammad?! ) essentially says the opposite:
So in summary:
The article essentially equates the West appeasing Islam with our implicit condoning and justifying of Islamic attitudes and responses to us. That if we act like submissive dhimmis, then Islam is more than happy to treat us as such.
Whereas if we point out what Islam says of itself (as outlined in the Koran, Hadith, etc), and while Muslims might not like it, they cannot refute it without denying the veracity of their own writings.
A well known quote comes to mind:
[Joh 8:32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
As I’ve said before: The West appeasing Islam will likely have the same result as Chamberlain’s attempt to appease Hitler.
May 15th, 2010 at 12:17 pm
“As Fr. Zakaria often points out, every religious figure is open to criticism: so why should Muhammad be sacrosanct? (Indeed, Comedy Central, which was quick to acquiesce to Muslim demands to censor South Park, is “brave” enough to run an entire cartoon series mocking Jesus.)”
Is it not just that one belief is in absolute submission to a vengeful God, while the other is of compassion and acceptance.
May 15th, 2010 at 12:32 pm
Why am I not surprised?
Possum Pete Dunne is a close friend of Chris Laidlaw, the leftist Sunday morning host on Radio NZ.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10645033
May 15th, 2010 at 12:41 pm
@bigbruv,
Talk about irony. I see that the NZRU has also apologized, but not the Maori Rugby Board, hence Sharples wanting a Maori sport association to be set up.
Oh, this is just getting ridiculous. They claim to be against separatism, but their actions say something completely different.
And isn’t the Maori Rugby Board the…well….Maori Rugby Board? And they are the very ones who won’t apologize? As I said…the irony…
Story link: http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7240100/sharples-floats-idea-of-maori-sport-administration/
May 15th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
Yvette
Unlike Kris I do not view this through a religious prism. I’m not interested in debates as to whether one god is vengeful or another has compassion and acceptance.
It’s that the Western reaction to one is standing up to it with gleeful mockery, while the reaction to the other is a pathetic submission combined with rationalisations about not judging “The Other”, and not ‘causing’ reactions.
That both responses are often sourced to the same well of post-modern leftism is the real issue for me.
May 15th, 2010 at 12:51 pm
there is a funny caption contest over at the standard…
featuring a pic of key..and tame iti..
ttp://www.thestandard.org.nz/caption-contest-3/#comment-215214
(ahem..!i had a little burst of creativity..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 15th, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Most of us in Canterbury/ Crusaders country would have preferred to see Hammett continue here for longer and although Mark was prevented from taking his talent to the Melbourne Franchise I think Big Bruv is stretching it to say he was forced on the Hurricanes. Who BB would you have wanted instead.
As for your childish comment on McCaw being a cheat why dont you listen to George Smith who plays the same game and at times does it better when he says he enjoys going head to head with the one HE regards as the best in the business.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
“I’m not interested in debates as to whether one god is vengeful or another has compassion and acceptance.”
I wasn’t referring not to the Gods but rather the believers – one may be apathetic, while the other bunch seem to go ape.
“That both responses are often sourced to the same well of post-modern leftism is the real issue for me.”
That is because political correctness is really about covering your own butt, and that proves needless in one case [Christian], and necessary in the other [Islam].
May 15th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
philu at 12.51 trolls for the labour trash site the Standard.
Why don’t you pack up your fullstops and piss off to the lefty Standard philu? You’d feel at home.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:31 pm
Someone with some experience who has won something. A coach who has got their club to the finals and has shown he/she can get them up for a win.
People who have spent their entire brief careers as asisstants are not qualified for head coach positions.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:46 pm
Great ideas SB so who did Big Bruv accuse of Forcing the Hurricanes board to take Hammett, Have they not the balls to say no we want someone such as you suggest.
I felt sorry that Coopers coaching stint disolved so sadly last night.
What would Ewen McKenzie do with the current Waratahs talent list and will their board give the present incumbant a fair go. Deans must be more than a little pleased to see the strong showing by the Aussie super teams.
May 15th, 2010 at 1:57 pm
Yvette [& Tom] 1:22 pm,
Yvette & Tom, surely if it was ONLY about covering one’s butt, like you said Yvette, and if this is needless as Christianity presents no threat, then WHY do you think some (secularist) people feel the need to persecute Christians/Christianity? Surely, as Tom alludes to, there must be ANOTHER reason why some secularists/leftists feel this need; and that it must be for more reasons than just simply holding a different set of values?
In contrast, most secularists essentially leave Hinduism (and most other religions) alone presumably because they see them as no threat. And of course in the case of Islam, which does threaten with violence, etc, they go one step further and actually appease it in the hope we (the West) will be left alone?
But if it was only a matter of both Christianity and Hinduism presenting no threat, why is there this differentiation in the way they are treated by secularists/leftists? Why do you think Christianity comes in for this SPECIAL attention in this regard?
[As a Christian I have my own views on why Christians/Christianity comes in for this sort of attention/persecution - the Bible alludes to it as well]
May 15th, 2010 at 2:04 pm
Kris, I said that if everyone treated Kiwi Muslims with the suspicion and accusation you do, it would probably radicalise some Muslims. Please don’t distort or exaggerate what I said.
The same would be true of any minority group, if they were treated with that level of universal contempt and distrust.
May 15th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
In India, it’s the Hindu gurus who are subject to the most severe treatment by Indian secularists. Why do you think Hinduism gets special attention from secularists in India while Christianity is mostly ignored?
May 15th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Ryan Sproull 2:04 pm,
Ryan, as I didn’t say ‘all’ I thought the ‘some’ was automatically implied. And what if only 90% “treated Kiwi Muslims with the suspicion and accusation [I] do”, would that mean less than ‘some’ would become radicalised Muslims?
Ryan Sproull 2:06 pm
As we are considering this in the context of the West I’m really not too interested in what happens in India.
May 15th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Fair enough. The reason’s still about the same, though, I reckon.
Possibly. Imagine how you would feel in a similar situation.
Note also the difference between being critical of Islam and Mohammed, and treating everyone in a group as if they’re sneakily pretending to be nice law-abiding citizens actually waiting for their chance to be horrible violent folk. It’s not the disagreement that I think causes trouble. I disagree with Islam myself. It’s treating the people themselves as if they’re evil untrustworthy fiends that I think causes trouble.
It is only one item in a great number of things that causes trouble, of course. But in the context of my comments, I was responding to the accusation that arguing with an evangelical Christian is a waste of time. It may well be, but I believe that addressing and confronting such views is worthwhile.
Just to be clear again: it’s not the view that Islam is incorrect with which I’m disagreeing. It’s the view that moderate Muslims are shifty sleeper agents that I am addressing.
May 15th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Well, there is one small step forward.
It used to be that when you typed into the Google panel CHRISTIANITY IS …
it came up with a list of deprecating possibilities.
Same when you typed in Bhuddism is …
But with Islam is … there was NOTHING!
Now however Islam cops it along equally with the others –
islam is
bullshit
google
nothing
false
a cult
a lie
of the devil
wrong
not a religion
May 15th, 2010 at 3:25 pm
Ryan Sproull 2:49 pm,
And no doubt many would agree that arguing with an evangelical Christian is a waste of time in ANY context.
Once again, as Islam becomes more established, the true intent of Islam becomes more apparent – that being the move towards establishing a global Islamic hegemony invariably by violent and intimidatory means. The fact than no Muslim will deny this reveals they are complicit in the intentions and aims of Islam. To be honest, Ryan, the only Muslim I would truly trust is one who has become a genuine Christian convert.
I point you to my post the other day when I outlined the case for Taqiyya — Islamic Religious Deception – I suggest you read it again in light of what I’ve just said.
May 15th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
Breaking news!
Whinging is contagious.
The true evolutionary path of the Maori.
Happy cannibals – F’ing whinging poms arrive – Maoris evolve to bloody Maoris – evolve to bloody whinging Maoris – evolve to F’ing Maoris – finally the last transition to f’ing whinging Maoris.
May 15th, 2010 at 4:03 pm
Please. Even if they denied it – and I’m sure plenty do – you’d just see that as further evidence of their shifty lying ways. It’s not possible for evidence to arise that would change your mind. You’ve closed the door on the possibility of being wrong about one-sixth of all people on the planet, closed the door on ever getting to know those people, being able to share in their lives, their fears, their joys, their suffering. It’s just so tremendously sad. And it’s happening all the time, everywhere.
Kiwiblog has become a drain on me. I think originally I was trying to be a good example, someone clearly left-wing who could engage respectfully and reasonably. I consciously used my real name from the beginning, to remind myself that I was as accountable for anything I said here as I would be saying it in person. Obviously, I fucked up a bunch of times, and if I didn’t apologise then, I apologise now. I’ve tried to ignore personal attacks and address only the content of people’s arguments, and to ignore posts that had no content at all. Not always easy.
The desire to win arguments is hard to resist as well. Nothing good comes from it, but it’s there, tempting away, wanting to have the last word, never wanting some misrepresentation of my words to go unanswered. It’s absurd.
Anyway. 3809 is enough. I’m on wataki at gmail, always up for a chat over a beer. Going to see if I can’t direct some time/energy into my own poor neglected blog and write something constructive for once. Keep well, and God bless.
May 15th, 2010 at 4:09 pm
are Greeks the most selfish C*unts on the planet??? im starting to wonder
GIMME GIMME GIMME
May 15th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
What a bunch of humourless cunts the left are!
http://www.thestandard.org.nz/key-was-sending-a-message-to-tuhoe/#comments
May 15th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
But which nevertheless you always succeeded in every post I ever read from you. Sorry to read about your decision, you’ve made a valuable contribution to this blog, and I’ll miss you, especially the next time Israel comes up
Take care of yourself Ryan, and thanks.
May 15th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
ryan – (((HUG)))
May 15th, 2010 at 5:43 pm
Ryan Sproull 4:03 pm,
I’m sorry, Ryan, but I can only say it as I see it. A religion/philosophy based on the writings of someone (Mohammed) who was quite clearly “shifty” and “lying” (not to mention all the other things attributed to him) will itself be accused of those same qualities, as will anyone who follows such a belief system. Hence my regarding Muslims as atypically “shifty” and “lying”.
In the same way as I would generally attribute to Christians those qualities which the Bible speaks of being inherent in their Lord and Saviour. They are afterall instructed to become increasingly Christlike. In my case I don’t always measure up, but I certainly try to live my life in that way.
I’m sorry you feel that way, Ryan. And as Reid just mentioned, you certainly make a valuable contribution here. I know many here, whether they use their real names, pseudonyms, or contractions (as in my case) still hold themselves accountable for what they write. My main reason for not using my full name is primarily because of my opinions regarding Islam, and the threat I believe it is to to the West, and indeed the entire globe. I really do not want to open myself up to becoming a target of some offended Muslim with a grudge against me for what I may have said about his belief system.
I trust you’ll reconsider your above decision, and will continue to contribute here. And on a personal note, may I say I have enjoyed many of our discussions, irrespective of which side of the fence we may reside on on a particular topic.
May 15th, 2010 at 5:46 pm
kris – out of the 1 billion people that identify as islamic.. how many do you think are actually real followers? ya cant label em all. id say 10% though
its like christains. how many identify as a christian, but dont follow your holier than thou approach to life!?
May 15th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
dime 5:46 pm,
I’m sure there are many ‘Muslims’ who only identify themselves that way for fear of the alternatives if they didn’t. Of course once you are a Muslim, if you convert to another faith, or simply leave Islam it is beholden on your next of kin to take your life. Islam is a religion of fear and intimidation. But regarding actual numbers; I have no idea.
Regarding Christians; those who put their faith and trust solely on the shed blood of Jesus Christ for their salvation, and acknowledge Him as God, and proclaim that He rose from the dead – they are Christians in the biblical sense. Whether they hold my particulars views outside of that is another matter entirely. But just for the record, any views I may hold on morality and values I draw from God’s word either directly, or in principle.
May 15th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
hey kris – what about that pesky “Judge not l’est ye be judged yourself” bit. dont see you following that too well
May 15th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
I did it again watched the bloody news, 16 year old girl sales around the world, good effort and then theres that smug bastard Rudd with his sanctimonious grin that makes even Michael Cullen look sincere.
I will never learn. Stupid stupid
Ryan Just dont take stuff so seriously, if you’ve been married for any length of time you will know you win bugger all arguments anyway and you’re not a chick so you don’t have to have the last word, this place isnt draining its comic relief, interspersed with a couple of very scary individuals
May 15th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
@dime – there is (or should be!) a difference between declaring the truth, and judging someone who may have rejected it. For my part I leave the latter to God. In any case, if you feel judged it might be conviction.. and that could be the start of good thing!
@Ryan – I’ll be sad to see you go. You have a fabulous, enquiring mind and kiwiblog will be the worse for your departure. Reconsider? … and/or pay us a visit sometime.
May 15th, 2010 at 6:36 pm
Maybe you will miss the news tomorrow Pauleastbay. I closed my ears and eyes to all of it. Good on the girl for doing it but the media have been raving for a week or more.
Did that cog sucker Krudd put out a pink carpet across the fucking bridge? would not surprise me.
May 15th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
@Ryan Sproull: Pity. You don’t seem to rant at people and usually have an intelligent and well-thought out perspective. Kiwiblog will be a lesser place.
May 15th, 2010 at 7:00 pm
I was quite proud of this post the other day but never received any replies/rebuttals worthy of serious consideration, so I am reposting in the hope (possibly forlorn) of debate on details without descending into the usual personal abuse this site revels in.
I wrote: An interesting comparison springs to mind.
On the one hand we have Tuhoe, the undisputed indigenous occupiers of the Ureweras, with proven uninterrupted habitation of the land since humans first set foot in the area, wrongfully dispossessed of their land by European colonisers but who never deserted their land, who offer to enshrine forever right of access even to the colonisers descendants and live in peace, who will kill or dispossess not one person, and who ask only for a largely symbolic vesting of “ownership” of their ancestral lands.
And we say no.
On the other hand we have another bunch of European colonisers, who claim ownership of a tiny sliver of land far, far away from their own ancestral lands, who killed and terrorised the existing indigenous population, and continue to do so to this day, built up a fearsome war machine with which to terrorise the neighbouring countries and many more, who qualify in every way for the tag of rogue state, and ask for all this to be legitimised on the basis of a proven myth (ie fiction) of occupation 2000 years ago.
And we say yes.
One may ask, how are these examples of clear injustice and hypocrisy and ongoing dispossession and oppression and casual murder justified?
The answer, I’m afraid is simple, and is exhibited on this blog and many similar others every day – racism.
Now I admit I have presented no evidence for my conclusion, but I think it’s pretty well self evident. Don’t you?
May 15th, 2010 at 7:15 pm
“..My main reason for not using my full name is primarily because of my opinions regarding Islam, and the threat I believe it is to to the West, and indeed the entire globe…”
bullshit..!
it is because you peddle skin-crawling vile hatreds..that any ‘human’ would run from holding/parroting..
..it’s more ‘shame’..than ‘fear’….eh..?
mind you..you are a very very scared little-person..aren’t you..?
..hiding away in yr little-fantasy-world..
..with yr ‘friends-in-the-sky’…eh..?
(ooh..!..i can’t give my name..!..the islamic-boogey-man will come and get me…!’)
don’t we have laws against individuals peddling the racial/religious-division/hatred that you do…?
..you evil fuck…!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 15th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
“..I closed my ears and eyes to all of it…”
shit..!..who knew..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
May 15th, 2010 at 7:25 pm
It’s quite worrying to see the degree of Muslim bashing on this site. I’m not suggesting DPF censors these contributions, I’m just suggesting that these ignorant rantings are symptoms of increasingly strident calls by the West, whether secularist or Christian) for what amount to a new Crusade, the tenth (ironic number, in this binary age) against Islam.
I fear for the people of Iran, who will probably be the victims of one of the earliest climate wars motivated by the addiction of the US to black tea – Texas gold. These unfortunate people saw their hugely popular, democratically elected PM (a Time Man of the Year) overthrown by a joint CIA-British coup and thrown to the very non-tender mercies of the Shah (at least 20,000 Iranians murdered by his US trained Savak secret police goons) and then from one frying pan into another with the rise of the radical clerics (although, in my worldview, all clerics are radical, including your local parish priest/minister/pastor/bishop…).
And all they want is to be like us and be our friends.
But they don’t stand a chance. Our oil is under their dirt, and we (and Israel, who are also getting desperate for water, but that’s another story) are coming to get it, no matter what.
Believe it.
May 15th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Luc Hansen,
You use racism as an excuse for socialism in NZ. All land has been won by conquest. Humans fight for control.
I was born here, my father was born here, my grandfather came here about 1919.
I am as indigenous as any man that walks this land. You forget Maori came here and conquered others.
So after 160 years why do I have to pay for the lifestyles of lazy bleeders who think I owe them a living? There is only one reason, VOTES. Labour and National both suck up to the Maori minority.
Don’t get me wrong, I have many Maori friends and relatives, I just don’t want to pay for the lazy bastards.
We had Maori Wars once, Maori can go back and Govern themselves, but do not ask for money, they use their own money and welfare system. I will not pay
May 15th, 2010 at 7:30 pm
And all they want is to be like us and be our friends.
You are joking?
May 15th, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Your respectful and reasonable engagement was noted, and I saw that that it was rooted in, as you say, you’re ignoring personal attacks and addressing only the content. That was perhaps the most obvious aspect of your comments. I also appreciated that you posted under your own name – owning your comments – though I understand why some people want to be anonymous.
Ideas have consequences, it’s important to argue them, and trying to win gives any argument a decided edge over some above-it-all stance. We make our points and walk away for a bit, even with the misrepresentation sometimes left intact.
But as you say – with 3804 comments perhaps it is time to give it a rest and focus on your own blog. Best of luck – especially with building the libertarian socialist community
May 15th, 2010 at 7:37 pm
Says the oh-so Christian Kris K: to be honest, Ryan, the only Muslim I would truly trust is one who has become a genuine Christian convert.
Hey Kris, is that like the only good nigger is a dead nigger or the only good Injun is a dead ‘un?
You would have fitted in with Hitler so well…
May 15th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
Luc,
go fuck yourself, you talk so much shit it dribbles out of your mouth.
Wanker like A grade
May 15th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Fuck I would rather read the shit from Phool in his permanent drug crazed state
May 15th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
Sheesh
There is some real tension on the blogosphere tonight!
May 15th, 2010 at 7:43 pm
I fear for the people of Iran,
..gimmee your bank a/c number…I’ll flick ya 2 grand…please go to the airport , book a one way ticket and go there…
May 15th, 2010 at 7:52 pm
Starboard, no problem. Pay the money, I’ll book the ticket.
But for my wife and family, I’m afraid to say, I will have to fund my return and I promise I will give you a full rundown of my findings before anyone else.
May 15th, 2010 at 7:53 pm
Aah, sorry to see you go Ryan. You made some very valuable contributions in your sojourn here.
May 15th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
sorry , the deals one way only.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
@Kris K
Yeah, I know. Many has been the time we’ve been at an international meeting or expedition with Muslim colleagues. It gets so tiresome the way they keep dashing off- trying to run into buildings strapped with explosives- so hard to get anything done really. And if you’ve got to share a room with them, they’re always trying to stab you in the middle of the night. So annoying.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:10 pm
Steve
Thank you for the kind words, but let’s address the issues, shall we?
It’s true most borders are drawn by conquest (or by natural barriers, like the sea and mountains) but that doesn’t make them set in stone. The modern view is that acquiring land by conquest is inadmissable (see UNGA 242). Furthermore, if you care to look around, you will see many examples of reversals of conquests (most of the countries admitted to the UN since WWII are ex-colonies). Also, even where the borders don’t change and the colonisers don’t leave, the locals regain their rights.
So in NZ, this will increasingly mean the transfer back to Maori of significant degrees of autonomy. And to think that this is done for votes is just plain stupidity. Think about it. Bolger and Graham had to work hard to keep voters on side as they began the really meaningful settlement processes – and they did it because it was the right thing to do – and now the gutless Key and his top henchmen have backed down on what would have been an enlightened and just vesting to Tuhoe of their ancestral lands.
Finally, sorry, Steve, you, like I, although born here, do no rank as indigenous. Look up the definition of the word.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Ryan, I don’t think you should go, I hate to admit it but you have taught me a thing or two.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:20 pm
“Hey Kris, is that like the only good nigger is a dead nigger or the only good Injun is a dead ‘un?”
Kris, I am afraid he has a point.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:26 pm
Hansen,
Indigenous = originating in and characteristic of a particular region or country. I was born here.
Don’t go back too far sunshine, you may find you are related to Apes.
As far as NZ is concerned you also need another lesson, Geology, NZ was not always above water.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:28 pm
Massive middle class tax hike incoming in the UK.
Methinks the Tories are going to rue dealing with the Lib Dems sooner rather than later.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Atlantis going up for the last time.
Check out the supersonic pulsing of the rocket exhaust to the right of the launch pad after the solid fuel boosters ignite.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdqKP3gvMJE
May 15th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Subset of the dominant culture. Not well-differentiated from it.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
Jesus Luc
……. who offer to enshrine forever right of access even to the colonisers descendants and live in peace, who will kill or dispossess not one person, and who ask only for a largely symbolic vesting of “ownership” of their ancestral lands…….
Obviously you have never wanted to go for a hunt in the park during growing season, access is not that easy , if ownership was handed over even on paper it would be the best excuse for a minority to stop all access for everyone.
I live in the area and its not all nice because you have extremists within Tuhoe as you do within the Jihadists.
Your view is unsophisticated on both issues, there are no easy answers when there are extremists involved because you cannot reason with extremists.
May 15th, 2010 at 8:44 pm
That’s a shame. Take care Ryan. I’ve really enjoyed your insights and you did succeed in setting an excellent example for civilised and intelligent debate.
Now who’s going to remind us that we can’t get an ‘ought’ from an ‘is’?
May 15th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
“enshrine forever right of access even to the colonisers descendants”
They themselves are descendents of colonisers also.
I also find it ironic you argue for some form of atonement for occurrences far in the past as what, some kind of moral imperative that should be obeyed? If there is some moral imperative it should apply equally to descendants of all groups regardless as to how long ago it occurred and regardless of the scope and scale. If you feel that is ridiculous then you should be consistent.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:03 pm
Religions of peace: http://dalatheist.tumblr.com/post/599967033/is-a-religion-of-peace-right
May 15th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Another new topic for a mo…
Great reading for anyone who has time. This piece on papers taken from the Soviet archives and held by refugees to the West is superb reading. It comes through Arts and Letters Daily, Denis Dutton’s great internet site. Highly, highly recommended to all.
Did Gorbachev laugh about the shooting down of the Korean airliner? It’s here.
http://www.city-journal.org/2010/20_2_soviet-archives.html
May 15th, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Speaking of kitty’s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG8ieVpDgfg&playnext_from=TL&videos=q_jynAQNdJA
Bloody hell!!!!!
May 15th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Steve, again, you are simply self serving with your definition. The term indigenous also includes first occupiers. We do not rank as indigenous in any internationally understood sense of the word. And we all have something like like 98% DNA in common with apes. But wallow in your delusions, by all means.
JiveKitty – unless you ascribe human status to the various species that inhabited NZ before humans arrived (yes, early Maori were humans also) Maori did not colonise the land, they discovered it. They have rights, recognised at international level, and international bodies are increasingly dominated by ex-colonies and indigenous and are increasingly asserting their rights.
Paul, I do know the area, I have strong connections there, I hunted there before I gave it up, and understand quite well the dynamics that have led to what you call extremist. It’s what generations of oppression and dispossession does to people. You should try it sometime.
And I call extremist the top cops that sent in a bunch of wound-up young cops looking for someone to shoot in that infamous raid that will remain forever a blight on our society. Do you not understand that your stance is extremist? Your conflation of Tuhoe with Islamic resistance to western occupiers is indicative of your world view – sophisticated, oppressive, unjust, selfish.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:30 pm
Lucy Hansen:
Re your 7pm post and your following posts:
First time I’ve read anyone on Kiwiblog quoting themselves and praising their own post.
But congratulations for bringing Tuhoe, Israel, and Hitler into the thread when it was discussing Muslims. You forgot about Torquemada, the Ku Klux Klan, Al Qaeda, Pol Pot, and the genocide of the Armenians. Under Godwins Law, when you bring up Hitler or Nazi-ism that’s supposed to be your last post on the matter.
Interestingly, Lucy, in one of your posts above in the thread you said:
Why is it ironic? Tenth in binary is just 1010, that is one-zero-one-zero, no “ten” about it.
And is it really a binary age? A lot of the code underlying our software is in hexadecimal. In “hex”, ten is just “A”.
What were you getting at Lucy?
May 15th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
I’ve just had a great idea. We take every progressive/socialists/butthurt Labourite and the rest and stick them all on an island in the middle of the Indian Ocean.
And then we napalm the shit out of it.
May 15th, 2010 at 9:36 pm
Maori did not colonise the land, they discovered it.
So the Mori-Ori are simply a figment of the imagination?
May 15th, 2010 at 9:46 pm
Lucy H:
Re your 9.26 – I wouldn’t waste too much time on the “indigenous” argument.
Now that the British National Party are on the “Indigenous” wagon, claiming rights as the indigenous people of the British Isles, Sharples and Co. at UN conferences may soon be rubbing shoulders with these neo-fascists.
The whole “indigenous” movement will then fade away.
As for our suggestion in an earlier post that the Israelis are European colonisers, do you include the darkish skinned Jews from North Africa and the black-skinned Israelis from Ethiopia in your generalisation? I think you will find that there are strong DNA Middle-Eastern links in the Israelis from Europe. Ironically, they and the Palestinian Arabs are likely to be very closely related in DNA. Now that’s irony!
May 15th, 2010 at 9:52 pm
If Ryan Sproull is having a last read before closing the door on Kiwiblog would he please give us his blog’s address?
And on it, Ryan, don’t forget to post the new surname you and your partner choose.
Happy blogging, Ryan!
May 15th, 2010 at 10:00 pm
LUc
There were no wound up young cops, no one was shot, its not infamous
Much better if you just keep praising your own posts quoting your posts and stroking yourself generally. I fucked up twice tonight firstly watching the news and secondly reading any of your comments. Even the idiot with the full stop compulsion makes more sense than you most of the time
I am really trying not to finish this by suggesting you are a sad anti-semetic onanist, but WTF
May 15th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
Just got the email..
Ryan has Sproulled the ell out of aar… @ 4:03 pm
Hell!.. want miss him taking his followers with him down the left side of highway one..
Christians have a habit of been born again..
Lets hope and pray Ryan is born again on the right side of highway one or at least the middle and returns back to save another day..
Your intellect and knowledge will be missed.. Ryan.
Haluha.. Ryan.. Haluha.
May 15th, 2010 at 10:02 pm
“JiveKitty – unless you ascribe human status to the various species that inhabited NZ before humans arrived (yes, early Maori were humans also) Maori did not colonise the land, they discovered it. They have rights, recognised at international level, and international bodies are increasingly dominated by ex-colonies and indigenous and are increasingly asserting their rights.”
So Maoris are full-blooded now? Like I said, descendents of colonisers too.
Rights are a construct conferred by society. What’s your point? It doesn’t mean the reason/s they have been conferred are particularly close to objective truth inasmuch as it can be known. With highly political and politicised organisations such as the UN – to whom I assume you are referring – there even seems to be a tendency to prefer the subjective narrative over the facts more likely to be close to the objective.
You also failed to address my point re: moral imperative of atonement.
If you prefer imperatives imposed by contractual obligations – in particular the Treaty of Waitangi – you also run into obvious problems there primarily in that if you are going to treat it as a contract you must limit it to the parties it pertained to and there must be clear knowledge of the obligations it gives, which in truth, nobody has. You also don’t have distinct parties separate from each other, but that’s probably not an insurmountable problem.
May 15th, 2010 at 11:31 pm
Leonardis, Moriori are a Maori sub-tribe who landed on the Chathams at some stage during the Polynesian migration and developed in isolation for hundreds of years. You should read Michael King’s book on the Moriori and get enlightened.
Jack5 – there you go again, spouting nonsense. The original Zionists were the Ashkenazi jews from Europe who have almost no more genetic relation to the Middle East than I do. They were/are just European colonisers, pure and simple.
Kim Hill makes me wonder what her angle on this is when I hear her consistently parading the Holocaust as justification for the dispossession of the then 500,000 odd Palestinians. There is a serious disconnect of logic in her reasoning.
And sure, non-European Jews have always lived in the land and also arrived after the Zionists, but they are a minority in Israel, and a minority that is largely marginalised in that society – check out their ethnicity-based socio-economic stats sometime.
By the way, for the purposes of Kiwiblog, 1010 is close enough to 10 to make my point of historical continuity. Split Enz were wrong – if you take their words at face value.
Paul – carry on believing what you want to believe, the world is moving past your white supremacist views. I stand by my view that it was lucky no-one was killed by the cops that day. The excuse was flimsy, the execution was extremely violent. I’ve listened to the stories and I remain disgusted by the behaviour of our cops.
And it’s so easy, isn’t it, to throw the anti-Semitic jibe. Do you know that Semite is a language group, not an ethnicity? Do you know that Arabs are Semites?
Neither am I anti-Jew. I am not religious, but everyone has a right to their religion of choice. I am against Zionism, but even that issue is passe in the face of facts on the ground. I am against the casual murder and imprisonment without charges or trial that characterises Israel’s racist polices and actions against Palestinians. The fact that Israel’s actions are not only condoned, but encouraged by the West reflects badly on us as humans.
But then, racist, European colonisers have always had to be dragged into philosophical modernity anyway – always the laggard.
JiveKitty – United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Read the text. Stop living in the colonialist mindset. And you clearly misunderstand the true significance of the treaty, which was a concession by Maori for we Europeans to come and live with them and which we then abused in a clear breach of trust. Your view is not only restrictive in a self-serving sense, but also one not subscribed to by successive governments in recent times.
May 16th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Yawn. Tenement farmers who had their leases terminated and the land sold from beneath them by their Arab ‘brothers’. But don’t believe this, because it might lessen the hatred and malice that drips from every one of your comments. You clearly enjoy those attributes being part of your personal brand.
Another thing that pisses me off is the notion, advanced by bleeding-heart, liberal idiots, that someone with fractional Maori blood is somehow entitled to apartheid-like treatment here. My father’s family arrived in NZ in 1840, my mother’s family in 1852 and all but two my forebears were born and raised in our country. Yes, our country. Yet I regard myself as no more entitled to special treatment than is someone who was grated their citizenship yesterday
I’m proud of my heritage, and of the opportunities that are available to all NZer. I’m disappointed that some choose not to take up these opportunities, but I won’t be made to feel guilty for that.
Luc Hansen, and other prompters of the guilt industry are the ones responsible for holding Maori back. They say “You can’t move forward, because the white man has oppressed you. Wait there and we’ll help you out”.. yet their brand of help is nothing but a ticket to wallowing self-pity and dependence. Luc Hansen, it is you and your ilk who are oppressing the Maori people.
May 16th, 2010 at 12:42 am
There is a word for collective punishment based on heritage.
May 16th, 2010 at 1:23 am
OK lets check the stats:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_ethnic_divisions
Whoops! Sephardi are the majority! If you remove the Russian migration from the 1990s from the Askenazi stats, that’s pretty big majority.
Still… Luc hasn’t been there and doesn’t know shit, so we should go easy on him…..
May 16th, 2010 at 1:25 am
Luc,
I’m intrigued that, by your definition, many of the Maori tribes could never count as indigenous, having displaced earlier occupiers of the land. All the stories of Tainui, for example, describe the conquest, killing, and eating of the original tangata whenua. You must surely be aware that even Maori historians like Ranganui Walker describe the period of Polynesian settlement as being in waves, and taking place over several hundred years.
So, here’s my question to you. If a Maori tribe like Tainui comes and attains its lands via conquest, and then more by conquest (north towards the Hauraki), how on earth do you describe them as “indigenous’?? Because if you include the those that gained by war or extermination into your definition, then you need include a whole lot of peoples, including, I would imagine, the current inhabitants of Tasmania. In the Chathams, would you accord indigenous status to the descendents of ngati mutunga and ngati tama, who killed some 19/20ths of the occupying Mori Ori and assumed control of these lands. And, if not, why not?
Your rhetoric here – I won’t yet call it debate – appears to me to be romantic, poorly considered, and altogether incoherent. Could you please outline for us what constitutes indigeneity (and what does not) in your moral theory? I would be most interested.
May 16th, 2010 at 1:27 am
Lucy Hansen, proclaiming he doesn’t hate Jews, at 11.31, posted:
Note Lucy doesn’t give Jews a capital “J”.
His ad hominem argument (“there you go again, spouting nonsense”) and repeated proclamations he isn’t opposed to Jews – only to Zionists – ring hollow.
Consider these quotes from Wikipedia and judge for yourself whether Lucy is bigoted:
And…
And Lucy, 1010 binary is 10 decimal, not “close enough to 10″.
May 16th, 2010 at 1:38 am
Haha good info Jack5…
Luc doesn’t know a thing about these “Jews” that he puts down… he just has shown his complete ignorance. That and that embarassing gaff on the demographics of Israel…..
What a clueless dickhead!
May 16th, 2010 at 6:25 am
“It’s quite worrying to see the degree of Muslim bashing on this site.”
Worrying? The Islamo-fascists are savages that must be exposed.
Any appeasement of the kind you indulge in will only encourage these intolerant, violent criminals.
May 16th, 2010 at 12:00 pm
I have to take issue with Shunda on his following comment where he accuses me of the following:
Shunda barunda [GD May 15th, 2010 at 8:20 pm],
Shunda was referring to an earlier comment by Luc who quoted me – of course Luc quoted just one sentence without the benefit of the context of my complete comment. I expect this from Luc, but I expect better from Shunda. Here’s Luc’s comment:
So apparently Shunda agrees with Luc in his assertion that my statement regarding me not trusting Muslims IS THE SAME AS someone stating, “the only good nigger is a dead nigger”.
Unbelievable!
I may not trust a twice convicted pedophile with my kids either, but that doesn’t imply I wish him dead. Nor can my not trusting anyone, Muslim or otherwise, be reasonably compared to, by implication, my wishing death on any ethnic group.
Why do some people around here specialise in making aspersions and character assasinations, rather than address the content of what others may say?
Once again, unbelievable! – and I do expect better from you, Shunda; epecially as a professed Christain.