Invent your own brands, DB
September 6th, 2010 at 11:00 am by David FarrarStuff reports:
A beer drinkers’ society warns it faces bankruptcy if it loses its dispute with DB Breweries over a shandy-like lager which most of its members do not drink.
The Society of Beer Advocates (Soba), an organisation with about 500 members run by volunteers, has taken legal action against DB over the term “Radler”, which the brewing giant uses on a citrus-flavoured brand of Monteith’s.
DB has a trademark over Radler which Soba is attempting to have declared invalid, arguing that like pilsner or lager, the term is a generic name for a recognised style of beer over which no-one should have exclusive rights.
I agree with SOBA. It is a generic term.
A spokeswoman for DB said its application to trademark the term in 2003 was not contested.
DB does not claim to have come up with the term, acknowledging the German origins on its website, but bases its right to trademark it on the lack of public awareness of the origins, and the “considerable” investment in the brand.
My advice to DB is not to try and trademark generic terms, even if obscure. Go invent your own brandnames and trademark them.
September 6th, 2010 at 11:09 am
DB needs to get it’s head in and act honourably, maybe a little economic action against them countrywide will help their morals and integrity radar get back on track?
Problem of being a big fish in a little pond is that you get full of pride about yourself and can become a bully as a result.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:27 am
I remember at the time the Dom’s beer writer seemed unaware what a Radler was (and/or was just cribbing the PR notes)
Vote:http://fightingtalk.blogspot.com/2004/08/lyndon-hood-beer-denier-lower-hutt.html
September 6th, 2010 at 11:28 am
DB took action against a Dunedin brewer, Green Man, who decided not to contest it initially and changed the name of his beer to Cyclist (a translation from the Bavarian dialect radler). Green Man Brewery is a member of SODA so seems to have prompted this fight.
Brewers join battle over right to radler
This is nonsense from DB. I won’t buy their version on principal, and puts me off buying anything branded by them. I wonder if they have tried to trademark stout or pilsner or champagne or burgundy.
Interestingly Lion Nathan in Australia has the carbon-neutral Barefoot Radler.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:30 am
No one should be allowed to trademark generic names – or, more generally, names that are entrenched in the public domain – but think about what has been allowed with others e.g. “Yellow” (Pages), and also, I think, the colour purple (Cadburys).
Radler is a rubbish beer. Has a worse one ever been produced? The best outcome is that no-one buys it and the issue will go away.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:33 am
That’s not a best outcome Projectman.
Vote:The best outcome is that DB say oops, it won’t happen again and drop the lawsuits and apologise to it’s shareholders for the bad publicity , that was not necessary.
It might help if a low level staffer or Ad agency hack gets binned too.
September 6th, 2010 at 11:37 am
I can’t see a facebook “Hands off Radler DB” on http://www.soba.org.nz/
Should be something like that to raise awareness and show support numbers to DB.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:38 am
“Radler is a rubbish beer.”
Are you talking about the style generally or a particular brand? They can vary quite a lot. Good ones are a very refreshing summer drink, especially after a hot activity like bike riding.
Wheat beer with a slice of lemon is also a good summer style.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:39 am
The “unawareness” argument used to be legitimate in the early years of patenting and trademarking but improved communications and travel has seriously eroded that principle even by the eighties.
Vote:And the internet killed it dead.
If I type Radler into Google I get 6,280,000 results. And here I am in “unaware” Kaiwaka.
September 6th, 2010 at 11:42 am
Good grief, why is SOBA signalling its weakness like this? I sure hope they are not part of the government guarantee, though it wouldn’t surprise me. Why wouldn’t DB move to settle for a paltry sum and be done with it.
And why is SOBA taking this action? Does it really matter? Is it wrong that a society that bets the farm on such an unimportant question should go under?
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:43 am
projectman – Cadbury trademarking purple packaging for Chocolate products is completely different from trying to claim ownership of a generic term for your product as your brand.
DB’s Radler is nothing more or less than an RTD version of what pimply pom youths in XR3i’s used to call “Lager Top”.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 11:46 am
Ben
Vote:Principle is principle, clearly SOBA aren’t John key where everything is negotiable and for sale.
September 6th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
“DB’s Radler is nothing more or less than an RTD version ”
The way they have done it, that’s probably a reasonable description. Proper Radlers can be very nice. DB’s stance probably also discourages real Radlers from being imported which is a shame.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:09 pm
SOBA is dead right, and I want to boycott the offending DB product in protest.
Unfortunately, in the summertime it is so perfect a Sunday afternoon drink, (don’t really care if it’s a “proper” Radler or not) it is impossible for me to contemplate such a protest.
James Stephenson – I thought lager top was far more watered-down?
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
The original version of Radler was OKish but then they relaunched it and it was pretty shit.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:14 pm
So I’m hoping everyone also thinks that Tabasco sauce should lose its trademark?
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
How can they trademark normal words? That is crazy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radler
So, they could trademark the word “beer” if they liked?
Crazy.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:35 pm
From memory Mac’s produced a “Radler” way back when they were still independent, combing fruit juices with lager.
Probably why DB trademarked it.
If I’m correct strange though that they could.
Hard though to see DB dropping their suit when it is in fact Soba that are bringing it, DB simply defending it and seeking costs.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:49 pm
@ Mike NZ: “The best outcome is that DB say oops, it won’t happen again and drop the lawsuits and apologise to it’s shareholders for the bad publicity , that was not necessary.
It might help if a low level staffer or Ad agency hack gets binned too.”
While I agree with your first point, why should a low-level staffer or ad agency worker get sacked? The decision to trademark Radler and defend the action in court was taken at a reasonably high level, so if DB were to drop its defence, then it’s only fair that the axe falls on those who came up with the idea in the first place.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 12:56 pm
Monteiths Radler is a beer? Bugger, I thought it was a variant of lemonade. Guess I’d better find something else to mix with my vodka in future.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 1:16 pm
RRM – Lager top = lager with splash of lemonade, lime cordial optional. Anything with more lemonade than that is a “shandy”.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 1:49 pm
RRM
A lager top is at the most 20% lemonade, and will normally be only 1-2 cms in a pint glass, so far less. A Shandy is normally 1/3 lemondate and a Radler is 50/50 or 60/40
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 1:53 pm
“Radler is a rubbish beer.”
I was talking specifically about the DB Radler – of course purely personal opinion.
I agree there are other (very) good summer styles.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
Errrmmm… surely DB must be aware that Lion market a radler?
Ironically, it was called Barefoot Radler (and was a nice drop on a hot summer’s day after some exertion) but they lost a trademark case over the “Barefoot” part (to a US wine maker). The term “radler” didn’t even come into it.
I would assume that Lion’s uncontested use of “radler” on the international market means the term is not able to be copyrighted or patented and SOBA should just tell them to piss off.
Vote:September 6th, 2010 at 7:18 pm
A pity the Germans didn’t just claim protected status for Radler like other countries do for their products. After all, DB is hardly what anybody in the civilised beer drinking world would call a good beer producer. Most NZ beers are just lagers with little taste designed to be drunk in bulk. I’d actually be suing DB that they claim to be making beer!
Vote:September 7th, 2010 at 4:57 am
11q374 – Why? Tabasco is a brand name, not a generic category name. It’s just the leading brand, so gets conflated with the category. See also jandals, sellotape, hoover. In such cases, the company can lose their trademark if it actually becomes the usual generic term. It’s within their rights to resist though.
Vote: