NZ to remain Middle Earth

October 27th, 2010 at 7:32 pm by David Farrar

has just announced the two Hobbit movies will be produced in New Zealand, and have at least one world première here. Details of the deal are:

  • Government will tomorrow introduce a bill to clarify law on contractors for the film industry (only)
  • A widening of the criteria for major film tax rebates which will come up at US$7.5m per film
  • Govt to commit US$10m towards marketing of the films, in exchange for NZ tourism information being included in materials such as DVDs
  • Govt and Warners to work together to promote NZ as a film production location and a tourist destination.

There is no way these concessions would have been necessary if it were not for the damage caused by the union organised global boycott. The decision has been made to film them here and no one was suggesting that was being reconsidered.

The US$500 million cost of producing the films will now largely be spent in New Zealand, and should be a useful contribution to economic growth.

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207 Responses to “NZ to remain Middle Earth”

  1. shady (251 comments) says:

    Yayayayayay!!! Awesome! Send the bill for all the extra spend to Simon Whipp and the CTU!

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  2. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    A piece of marketing genius to get NZ tourism info included in every DVD sold.

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  3. Monty (965 comments) says:

    Massive mid-judgement by the unions and their lap-dog the Labour party. Now John Key will be considered a hero. Labour support will plummet.

    And where has the spineless Phil Goff (Mr Irrelevant) been during this whole disaster?

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  4. YesWeDid (1,040 comments) says:

    Great, good news and well done Mr Key. Can we end the hysteria now?

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  5. french (7 comments) says:

    “There is no way these concessions would have been necessary if it were not for the damage caused by the union organised global boycott. The decision has been made to film them here and no one was suggesting that was being reconsidered.”

    This is just right wing propaganda. There has been a competition between filming locations to attract this production and I believe John Key has made other concessions kept below the radar.

    “Mr Key said Warner executives had raised the disparity in tax rebates in different countries; New Zealand’s rebate is 15 per cent on domestic spending, less than countries such as France and Hungary (20 per cent) and Ireland (up to 28 per cent).”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10683281

    [DPF: You miss the key point - NZ had already won. The decision has been made. There is not any proof at all that the studio was planning to try and move it before the union boycott happened. Do you have such proof?]

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  6. the bird is the word (69 comments) says:

    Any doubts that John wouldn’t win next year’s election have just been expelled.

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  7. Whoops (139 comments) says:

    @rofl – yes, cheap at twice the price.

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  8. Caleb (467 comments) says:

    the PM certainly did not look that impressed.
    i guess he felt this was all very unnecessary and unbecoming of a head of state.

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  9. DRHILL (121 comments) says:

    Yes! I now have stuff to look forward to!

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  10. the bird is the word (69 comments) says:

    @Caleb

    A head of state?

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  11. shady (251 comments) says:

    @Caleb – however he is Minister of Tourism and has just made a major coup out of a clusterf…k.

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  12. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    Who couldn’t be happy with that outcome? Even if I hypothetically might have lost money on that I would still be a happy chap.
    Any right minded person would be though.

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  13. Man in a Hat (11 comments) says:

    What was likely a Labour instigated plan to gain votes by getting the unions to make National look weak has backfired massively. And the very base of support for Labour, the unions, have blown their own foot off. Oh joy!

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  14. Inventory2 (10,161 comments) says:

    Oh dear; those grapes that the guys at The Standard have been eating must have been TERRIBLY sour!!!

    http://thestandard.org.nz/keys-announcement/

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  15. gravedodger (1,526 comments) says:

    So we legislate to make some workers in the Film industry able to work as contractors, just as Real Estate people have been able to do for years.
    Why cant anyone who so chooses be in a contractural relationship with an employer rather than an employee if being a contractor suits both parties.
    Grasp the bloody baton National, this is the 21st century FFS and we have moved on from the unions that have just become a fundraising arm of Labour and the proving ground for aspiring Politicians and if anyone doubted that fact then just explore the timeline for the debacle that John Key has just negotiated us out of.
    Little Andrew has moved on to national politics along with a number of others who have a trade union background and Helen Kelly will be no different. The collateral damage as these pricks wreck and destroy anything that can be used in the course to their aim is mind boggling in the extreme.

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  16. trout (912 comments) says:

    This leaves the CTU in a bind (again); in their stumbling to present themselves as pro Hobbit (Conway has now usurped Kelly as a more credible face of the CTU) they are now unable to effectively protest against a change to employment law that allows Independent contractors freedom from imposed collective bargaining. But is this over?; it is hard to believe that the IFA and Simon Whipp accepting a deal made between the NZ Govt. and Warners that limits Union ambition.

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  17. Tom Gould (141 comments) says:

    What a spineless, gutless whimp Key turned out to be. The Hollywood moguls got everything they came for. Key bent over, held his ankles, and said ‘go for it boys’. I guess he has spent a lifetime crawling to the big money boys, so what’s new? If the studios had not wound Jackson up to keep the flames burning, the deal would have been done months ago. Someone should document this case study in how the hard nosed movie boys set up the dim witted union, and then the dim witted government. Would make a great script, I’m sure.

    [DPF: You sound so very very bitter. Poor lad]

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  18. Owen McShane (1,226 comments) says:

    A brilliant outcome. Unlike many of the critics of the studios, I spent many years negotiating deals between New Zealanders and large multinational organisations – of both the Socratic and Confucian tradition.
    The end result of this exercise is what we always hope for – a win-win situation.
    Prior to the rash actions of the Australians, Warners etc would have been worrying about the falling US dollar.
    When they first negotiated the commitment, the NZ dollar was about 65 cents and now the US dollar has fallen so that the NZ KIwi is about 75 cents. That makes other destinations look much more attractive – in pure dollar terms – and those governments would have been nipping at the Warner ankles.
    Then the Equity actors threw the nuclear bomb of a global boycott.
    Big multi-nationals do not like to be deal breakers – especially against weak partners. But now they had their excuse.
    But we have come out roses.
    The Hobbit movies will be made here.
    The labour law, for movies only, will be clarified.
    Yes, we will pay 7 million more per movie PROVIDED THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL.
    But in return Warners are committed to a joint venture promotional campaign for NZ which will be worth FAR MORE than 7 million.
    AND one of the world premiers will be in NZ. Eat your heart out Ireland and Eastern Europe.
    I just hope Actors Equity greet this with grace. I have been in these kinds of situations many times myself and I have to say I never pulled off anything like this coup.
    Well done to all involved in rescuing this project.
    Just hope that some people have learned a lesson. I also hope that the lesson is NOT that you can stuff things up and depend on other people to rescue the situation.

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  19. robcarr (132 comments) says:

    I must say I am pretty glad of the first and third changes. The law clearly needed clarifying if there was the level of controversy that there was and if it is clarified too strongly against unions no doubt Labour would change it. On the third having our advertising put in all the DVDs in exchange for $10 million is a bargain not a concession. We have done amazingly well for our tourism industry out of the lord of the rings association and strengthening it can only be good for us.

    As much as rebates for films can seem to be cowing to big business it makes sense for our economy as other countries offer far larger rebates and films are kind of special. They don’t cost a lot to us physically so the same dangers of businesses stripping our wealth don’t apply. They will always contribute positively to our economy so the need to tax them is less. It is a different type of industry to normal business and the tax should reflect that, while we could distinguish all tax based on how valuable the businesses are for us that would be overly complicated and movies seem an apparently obvious exception which can bring in a lot of money. We are still going to get a lot of tax from them.

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  20. Frederick (39 comments) says:

    Great work from JK. This is where his much maligned (by the socialists I hasten to add) Forex skills come to the fore. Still lets look on the bright side ….after the apparent lift at the labour party conference this has sent the opposition back on their heels. They must be cursing Helen Kelly and the unions now.

    Be interesting to see how labour/green approach this new bill. Phil must be squirming in his seat wondering what to do.

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  21. Oscars Grouchy Mum (83 comments) says:

    “This is just right wing propaganda. There has been a competition between filming locations to attract this production and I believe John Key has made other concessions kept below the radar.”

    See your right wing propaganda, and raise you a great big bitter bag of left wing conspiracy theory gabbage.

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  22. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    I think as Minister for Tourism John Key has done a stellar job this week.

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  23. flipper (3,750 comments) says:

    Owen says it all – EXCELLENT!

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  24. Yvette (2,735 comments) says:

    “At least half a dozen countries, including Australia, are lobbying to win the right to film The Hobbit and Hollywood accountants are now doing the numbers of rival offers, the movie’s co-producer and co-writer Phillipa Boyens says. …
    Scotland, Ireland, Canada and Eastern European countries had entered the negotiations in a “feeding frenzy” inspired by the threat of union action.
    “Get this, Australia, (are) making a huge play for this production,” Ms Boyens said. ”
    –MICHAEL FIELD – Stuff |15:12 04/10/2010

    “Mr Key said he understood Warner Brothers’ main concern was industrial uncertainty, not the 15 percent tax break New Zealand gives to film companies.
    Other countries are reported to have offered 30 percent in bids to get the movies.”
    – TOM CARDY AND KIRSTY JOHNSTON | 17:05 21/10/2010

    “… an additional rebate for the Hobbit movies of up to US 7.5 million per picture, subject to the success of the movies …’ John Key reading his statement – Radio Live.

    Hey, additional cost : NZ$ 4.46 per person New Zealander

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  25. CharlieBrown (916 comments) says:

    Bloody hell – if this doesn’t prove that John Key is a socialist then I don’t know what will. To make a law change just for warner brothers is bloody rediculous. He had a perfect opportunity to positively change some of the screwed up, unfair and unclear aspects of employment law and the smiling rat makes a change just for the movie industry.

    Make no mistake… john key is Helen 2.0

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  26. Oscars Grouchy Mum (83 comments) says:

    Tom Gould – would you have been happy if the Hobbit was made elsewhere?

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  27. shady (251 comments) says:

    Tom Gould 7.56pm – this comment is incredibly offensive. Perhaps any reference to “John Key” be replaced with “Simon Whipp” or “Helen Kelly” and references to the “studios” be replaced with “CTU” or “money boys” be replaced with “unions” – we might get a truer picture. But that would be offensive also.

    Keep blocking your ears with your fingers going “Wah, wah, wah….”, its very amusing – oh and don’t forget to stomp your feet.

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  28. Caleb (467 comments) says:

    There was no other option, Tom.
    … are you serious?

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  29. davidp (3,550 comments) says:

    Yvette>Hey, additional cost : NZ$ 4.46 per person New Zealander

    What cost? If the films weren’t made in NZ then the total tax collected would be zip and we’d need to pay a shit load of benefits to all the unemployed film people. Now the films ARE being made here, the government collects slightly less tax than they would have before Robyn Malcolm and her Aussie mate decided to unionise our film industry, and 1500 people have jobs.

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  30. Inventory2 (10,161 comments) says:

    Tom Gould said

    What a spineless, gutless whimp Key turned out to be. The Hollywood moguls got everything they came for. Key bent over, held his ankles, and said ‘go for it boys’. I guess he has spent a lifetime crawling to the big money boys, so what’s new? If the studios had not wound Jackson up to keep the flames burning, the deal would have been done months ago. Someone should document this case study in how the hard nosed movie boys set up the dim witted union, and then the dim witted government. Would make a great script, I’m sure.

    You really are a graceless bastard aren’t you Tom. I’ll enjoy watching you become even more bitter and twisted as National’s poll ratings soar, and as Labour’s reach single figures.

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  31. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Exactly as predicted. Film makers who happily produce film after film in the US (where industry unions are far more militant and there are no tax breaks) blackmail NZ government into increasing tax breaks AND changing the law!

    New Zealand is now officially a 3rd world country and a laughing stock.

    Thanks, John Key!

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  32. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    Trev’s not pleased

    http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/2010/10/27/the-price-of-the-hobbit/

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  33. shady (251 comments) says:

    Maggie – Wah, Wah, Wah!!! The other countries will be marvelling at the negotiating skills of our Prime Minister – wondering at how well he did turning around what could have been a massive loss to NZ into a major coup in terms of return for jobs, economy and a superb win for Tourism NZ. Wah Wah Wah!!!

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  34. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,811 comments) says:

    The best part of this whole deal is that Labour has been totally fucked over by the right honorable currency trader but dumbarse Mallard hasn’t quite yet realised how.

    As soon as Phil Goth opens his mouth to squeak, John Key will simply point out that for every $7.5 million he gave to Warners he got back $30 mil worth of advertising for Tourism NZ.

    And just wait til Hekia Parata tells the people of the Mana electorate how many jobs THEIR bros and whanau would have lost but for the decisive actions of their good friend John Key while Phil Goth was disporting himslef in Australia, absent without leave..

    Laaaaarfff my bloody aaarse off!

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  35. reid (16,061 comments) says:

    “the PM certainly did not look that impressed.”

    That’s just the press coverage on both Stuff and Herald.

    They’ve decided obviously that despite giving Hulun a free ride for 2.5 straight terms, Key gets only 0.6 terms.

    Now, Maggie. Hows about the unions who caused the whole thing entirely on their own, shut up. Can you do that?

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  36. Doug (407 comments) says:

    Just goes to prove the Unions are not for protecting jobs, it’s for protecting their cash flow.

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  37. Michaels (1,318 comments) says:

    I think it’s time Whale changes Key’s name from “Smile and Wave” to “THE NEGOTIATOR”

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  38. noskire (833 comments) says:

    Hat-tip to John Key. The importance of producing the Hobbit films in NZ cannot be measured by the employment of film-crew alone. The spin-offs will resound for years.

    Another reason why our country should never be left in the hands of teachers and socialists.

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  39. Tom Gould (141 comments) says:

    Caleb, no other option? Is that a version of ‘there is no alternative’? Key sold us down the river. Brownlee cut the deal weeks ago, but the studios wanted a new law just for themselves and some more cash, so the show had to go on, as they say in the entertainment business. To update Muldoon, Key is a shiver looking for a spine to run up.

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  40. Doug (407 comments) says:

    How did Labour’s big investment in Rail go again how many millions has it lost?

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  41. k.jones (210 comments) says:

    so John Key’s the real winner here???

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  42. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    And idiots like Martyn Bradbury insist that it’s all a big conspiracy by John Key and Warner Bros to screw over the oppressed worker or whatever.

    Dickhead.

    Unions 0, New Zealand 10,000.

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  43. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Tom Gould

    Take a break and let the next dork from the CTU take over for a a shift, you’ve whined here all day.

    Its bad enough we have have unionists here but its just plain embarassing how incompetent they are. If I was paying a tithe to any CTU member union I would be asking for a refund.

    I love seeing unions belittled, this wasn’t Thatcher – Scargill but then even red Arthur didn’t call for a world wide ban on mining.

    Fucking retards.

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  44. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    And to the cretin left who whine about $15 million in subsidies for The Hobbit’s production: the economic benefits will likely be ten times that number.

    Find another grievance.

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  45. Ben Wilson (523 comments) says:

    Well done John Key. Coming from a leftie, I can’t deny it, it’s a good deal, FTW.

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  46. Simon (706 comments) says:

    The unions and Labor should campaign next year on reversing what John Key has achieved. Really they should.

    Your office is calling you Phil.

    Phil??

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  47. Peter (1,652 comments) says:

    Lemon sucking leftists and Unions crying into their Chardonnay.

    Out-gunned. Outclassed. Out the back door.

    Well done, Mr Key.

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  48. James (1,338 comments) says:

    At short notice Key was handed,thanks to the union morons, a barrel load of lemons…and he managed to make some pretty decent champagne from them.

    It was truly comith the hour comith the man…thank fuck we had an experienced top line business negotiator to the fore rather than a sour old socialist crone…..credit where credits due Mr Key…well done.

    Suck on that lefty scum.

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  49. Ross Nixon (610 comments) says:

    The $US25 million is, of course, cheaper than you may think.
    By the time it is all paid, John Key will have organised currency parity with the US. He is clever you know!

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  50. Simon (706 comments) says:

    John Key has made the unions look silly. The union bosses will hate John Key’s guts. It will get more personal and nastier. The unions will never forget or forgive.

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  51. tvb (4,229 comments) says:

    John Key the brilliant deal maker. Labour cannot touch this but they will moan from the sidelines.

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  52. bchapman (649 comments) says:

    So presumably the legislation will apply to ALL film industry workers for an indefinite time period? Thats a lot of people. Will be interesting to see what other laws this may affect.

    That said, I don’t blame JK for pulling all stops to keep The Hobbit, he really had no choice- too much money at stake. Hopefully will be less boring tha King Kong.

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  53. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    And there goes John Key showing why he is a great choice for PM.

    Not only pragmatism ($17.5m is nothing to keep the movie here) but he also strikes a quid pro quo into the deal through the tourism info on the DVD and the agreement to include NZ tourism as part of the marketing push.

    They had us over a barrel thanks to the unions. Not only has he secured the deal for only a little bit less tax collected, but he’s got the country a hell of a lot more than $17.5m worth of advertising & promotion as well. And the whole deal is much less than the rumoured offers from offshore. Now that is damn good negotiating!

    YesWedDid & robcarr – thank you for being magnanimous at least about it. robcarr – it was pure spin, but at least it was good spin.

    Tom Gould & french – wake up to yourselves. Everyone knows the unions brought this upon us. If you want to get sour, just wait until the unions start crying about falling membership over the next year

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  54. kowtow (7,856 comments) says:

    On a case by case basis,well done JK and co.Praise where it’s due.

    Now stand up for the rest of the country and keep the foreshore and seabed in Crown estate.

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  55. Radman (137 comments) says:

    Now stand up for the rest of the country and keep the foreshore and seabed in Crown estate.

    Why would the rest of the country do this when it might legally vest in Maori and have done so for 140 years?

    Sorry for the threadjack, but I didn’t start it!!

    Anyone who says Key gave Warners $10mill just needs to think yes he did, but got back $600 million in return. Not a bad yield!!!

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  56. happy-jacko (64 comments) says:

    Good stuff… just wish JK would change things in urgency on other matters. … HOWEVER one great step for MAN. Go get the investors money from the Hanover and the other boys.

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  57. lastmanstanding (1,226 comments) says:

    IMHO DPF should ban anyone who objects to this deal for life.

    Reason Either they are so anti NZ that they are prepared to see 1 Billion of economic input go to a foreign country not to mention the hundreds of million of dollars worth of free advertising for the country both as a tourist destination and a place to do business.

    OR ( as in the case of the Socilaists and Greens ) they are economic pygmies who dont deserve to be allowed to comment here where the RIGHT people of intelligence gather

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  58. Viper Mk II (54 comments) says:

    Jackson and Warner managed to extract extra money out of the NZ taxpayer. Good on them. Corporate brinksmanship against a small country willing to sell out its sovereignty, and the corporations got paid out. John Key does deserve credit for striking a good blanaced deal however.

    But Warner and Jackson were never going to move the location shoot to Ireland or the UK in the middle of winter and have it look completely different to LOTR, instead of shooting it here in the brilliantly lit NZ summer. If they had done that, yes they could have delayed shooting for another 6-8 months to wait for the european summer. Again, unlikely.

    Next time they should let the workers organise and come under a collective agreement just like every other civilised first world movie making nation does.

    but got back $600 million in return.

    The largest single component of these monies is international promotional budget and NZ will never see a cent of that.

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  59. adze (1,933 comments) says:

    They’re discussing the deal on Backbenchers on TVNZ 7 – the new CTU spokesman is there as is Materia Turei, predictable comments from them

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  60. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Viper,

    If you don’t want a bad outcome, don’t start negotiations with a nuclear strike. Try telling your friends. You’d be doing them a big favour

    (That’s free advice)

    BTW – the change to labour laws showed just how seriously the unions misunderestimated the potential backlash doesn’t it? They certainly did put the ‘L’ back into industrial relations

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  61. lastmanstanding (1,226 comments) says:

    But the most brilliant outcome has been that Little and Kelly have destroyed the worth of the Unions to hundreds of thousands of thinking Kiwis who will now correctly see that these oiks have only ever wanted to enslave their members in order to collect the dues from them to pay their fat salaries cars credit cards et al.

    40 years ago I was forced to join the Clerical Workers Union against my will and my principles. I was forced to have a siginicant amount deducted from my pay each week and paid to a Union who I despised and hated as the Communists and Facists my late father had fought against.

    And the gutless wonder government of the time forced me agaonst my free will to pay extortion money to these Communists.

    Now after 40 years these gutless pieces are getting their payback. Rot in hell Little and Kelly

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  62. reid (16,061 comments) says:

    “John Key has made the unions look silly. The union bosses will hate John Key’s guts. It will get more personal and nastier. The unions will never forget or forgive.”

    Yes he has made them look silly and they will hate his guts even more than they already do and that’s a lot.

    It will get more personal and nastier but the only person capable of taking on Key in the good-guy stakes at the mo, is Little, and he’s not in the picture, as Liarbore Party pres. Shame he’s not in Parliament right now, isn’t it. Awwwwwwww.

    So Key’s now got a clear run to leverage anything he wants to and everything now depends what he chooses to leverage. Remember John, the key to success is not popularity, it’s making a difference for the better.

    What will he do?

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  63. tvb (4,229 comments) says:

    John Key has restricted the independent contractor definition only to the film industry. We already have it for real estate agents and sharemilkers. But the threat is there however by implication. Don’t push it the Unions are being told, or we will legislate across the whole economy. In a neat twist of fate we have found a way to get rid of the Unions and they handed it to John Key on a plate.

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  64. lastmanstanding (1,226 comments) says:

    My apologies DPF for my outburst but as a young man 40 years ago I was truely sickened by the fat slob of a Union offical who strutted his stuff through my work place sneering at my protests for the freedom to associate with whom I wanted.

    Incidentially I had already negoiatated an above Union pay from my boss on the understanding I was not to tell any others as he wanted to reward but wasnt allowed by the Government and Unions of the day.

    Yes to the young ones thats how it was.

    My boss wasnt allowed to pay me what he wanted legally.

    All Unions are the enemy of the workers.

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  65. Viper Mk II (54 comments) says:

    Don’t push it the Unions are being told, or we will legislate across the whole economy. In a neat twist of fate we have found a way to get rid of the Unions and they handed it to John Key on a plate.

    Get rid of unions? Wake up mate wake up! This is smile and wave John Key we are talking about here, he’s no Rockefeller or Vanderbilt.

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  66. Viper Mk II (54 comments) says:

    My boss wasnt allowed to pay me what he wanted legally.

    All Unions are the enemy of the workers.

    Wow, let ancient history go and look forwards. With the National Government striving to lower real wages across the economy (for the majority of workers, not the few at the top), we need our unions now.

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  67. Barnsley Bill (982 comments) says:

    For all the ridiculous posturing by some of you there is no getting away from the fact that the film was going to be filmed here. It was a done deal. The union then announced a global boycott prior to asking the question. We were treated to an image of the tired and bewildered luvvie Mckellen live from London agreeing with them. And then the nobody who played gollum getting on telly talking out of his arse about being a union man.
    The union caused this entire cock-up.
    Key has fixed it without giving away the farm.
    A good result for the country, a result that was only required because a couple of d grade actors, an aussie interloper and Kalamity Kelly tried to cockfinger a half billion dollar project. They then proceeded to lie through their brown teeth and made it worse.

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  68. lastmanstanding (1,226 comments) says:

    Get a grip Viper MkII

    Without the brilliant skills of JK the Yanks would have been off and filming if UK or East Europe and Kelly would have trumpeting it like you as a great victory for the Union movement and the Solidarity of the Workers ( who had no jobs)

    She like you and the rest of the Lefties are 19th Century throwbacks who aint figured we have a global capital economy where money moves and the dumbarses like you and Kelly get left in the dust with nothing zero ziltch

    Suck it up and grow a brain.

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  69. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    I got dizzy at The Standard. Had to laugh though, and then threw up in my mouth a bit when I went to Red Alert.

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  70. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    DPF posted:

    …There is no way these concessions would have been necessary if it were not for the damage caused by the union organised global boycott.

    Pull the other leg, DPF. The NZ film industry was already on the tax tit.

    Half the world and most of the states of the United States are shovelling money towards Hollywood as subsidies and incentives to lure film makers to their domains.

    Our Prime Hobbit, John Key, is all for free enterprise for our core NZ export industries, which are hard pressed thanks to the madly high kiwi dollar caused by the carry trade and our lunatic tools for controlling inflation. But free enterprise goes out the window to placate the artsy-fartsy set, the botoxed entrepreneurs, the wannabes who dream of rubbing shoulders with Hollywood names. In free enterprise’s place our Centre-Leftists politicians shower subsidies and specially tailored law, and display international grovelling typical of flaky Central American banana republics.

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  71. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    More union hatred from people who don’t hate unions. Yeah, right.

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  72. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    RightNow,

    I just looked. I think I managed 2 paragraphs of Marty G before I was looking over my shoulder for the grassy knoll. Utter, utter tripe.

    I wonder if Marty G is Tom Gould – they sound a lot alike. One is aping the other

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  73. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Wake up maggie I think I got something to say to you…

    JK dug us out of the hole the unions created. They will pay a small price through the labour law changes. They will pay a far, far greater price in the reduction in membership numbers. Just remember – they brought it upon themselves.

    In years to come someone will dig through what looks like a particularly foul midden and find a sign “My Name is HelenKellydias, Queen of Unions: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and Despair”

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  74. big bruv (13,450 comments) says:

    lastman has a story very similar to mine, I have never forgotten the union rep who told me (by stabbing his finger into my chest) that I did “not have a fooking (yes he was a Pom) choice about joining the union”.

    To this day I have retained a hatred of unions and union reps, they are parasites sponging off the hard working mugs who pay union dues.

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  75. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    At least Maggie stopped pretending to have a valid argument.

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  76. Rex Widerstrom (5,307 comments) says:

    Roflcopter suggests:

    A piece of marketing genius to get NZ tourism info included in every DVD sold.

    Sorry to burst the celebratory bubble but DVD is a dast-declining tehnology (being replaced by PVRs, internet TV, and devices that allow torrented shows to be played on TVs rather than just PCs).

    Figures released just last week by a consortium of movie studios and electronics makers called the Digital Entertainment Group showed DVD sales plunged 16.5 percent in the first 9 months of this year, while spending on digital downloads and video-on-demand rose 23 percent.

    And how many people sit through DVD extras? Alright, now hands down if you sit through the ones that aren’t deleted scenes or alternate endings or maybe, at a stretch, the director’s commentary – things, in other words, directly related to the film you’ve just seen – but will even sit through stuff that’s only vaguely related. Like, say, the music video for the theme music. Or a boring travelogue.

    The promotional value of the deal is negligible at best; probably, in fact, worthless. It’s to be hoped that enough of the prodyction budget ends up in NZ pockets to offset the amount of money we’ve waved goodbye to in taxes.

    The only people who ought to be cheering are the exectives – the ones in Hollywood and the ones in the unions, both lots of whom have royally screwed us.

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  77. Gwilly (156 comments) says:

    Now will Key keep the foot on the throat of the unions and suffocate the life out of them? Come on John, go for the knock out blow! There has never been a better time to crush these parasites.

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  78. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    Long question, short answer, ban unions. End of.

    If cell-phones were such a nuisance on the roads, unions must be a nuisance to the economy. Ban them, and plant a big boot in Kelly’s arse as she goes.

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  79. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    Rex, considering over 200 million copies of LOTR were sold by 2007, I think we’ll be fine. ;)

    And the marketing material wasn’t necessarily on the DVD itself. Jewel cases have these nice little clips on the inside cover…. to hold stuff, boxed versions even more room.

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  80. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    Where’s Kelly hiding?

    That new CTU man on the TV seemed like a nice chap, didn’t he?

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  81. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    lastmanstanding, I completely relate to your experience, I was a university student in the late ’80′s, had 12 weeks to work enough for the next acedemic year, arrived at the hotel I had worked at for a number of years, they all wanted to go on strike. I went to the meeting of the union I was compulsorily a member of to have some foul-mouthed fuckwit yell and scream, broke the picket line to work and as a result, had my car vandalised, every tyre slashed and every pannel on the car keyed. Unions, mmm, nice folk. And I was forced to pay those fuckers union fees! If ever there was an arguement for a ban, the CTU and that wanker Australian outfit have dilvered it.

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  82. somewhatthoughtful (455 comments) says:

    Wow, amazing! Now new zealand can clearly communicate to the world that we’ll open up collectively to whatever the fuck they want. jolly good show, john.

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  83. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    Any previous leader would have been lucky to get away with less than twice that, notverythoughtful.
    Unless you have a good reason for denying a huge stimulus to thousands of workers who are very happy to have films made here. Including hospo and tourism workers, and many more.

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  84. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    Roflcopter, the CTU employ eunuchs, not “men”, Helen Kelly sees to that with stones in the CTU’s recpetion, I believe.

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  85. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    while spending on digital downloads and video-on-demand rose 23 percent.

    Until their connections or hard drives die, at which point they remember the value of physical media again.

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  86. Rex Widerstrom (5,307 comments) says:

    Roflcopter:

    Doesn’t matter how many were sold, how many watched the extras?

    Which is the better deal, tourism wise:
    - Key’s $US10 million to get… let’s be very generous and say 10% of purchasers will watch the travelogue… 20 million viewers.
    - Or the AU$3 million spent by the Australians to get Oprah to come there and film her show, which will be seen by 40 million in the US alone and screened in 145 countries?

    It may turn out this deal benefits us through direct expenditure of Hollywood money in NZ (but remember that publicity and other big-ticket items won’t go to NZ companies; the highly paid stars won’t be NZers; the distribution companies aren’t NZ ones; and so on… and they all get a share of the $500 million budget).

    But whatever benefits do accrue, claiming tourism to be one of them as a result of Key’s supposedly astounding deal-doing on a silly little DVD extra is drawing a very, very long bow indeed. We’d have been better off luring Oprah across the Tasman.

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  87. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    Actually, what does that irrelevancy, what’s his name, you know, the Labour bloke, fuck – what is his name, takes all that union cash from minimum-wage workers to fund his Party and shit, what does he have to say? Will he stand up for South Auckland cleaners and speak for them on this?

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  88. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    @ Somewhatthoughtful

    If another industry can come along and promote the same benefits to the NZ economy over the long term, sure, why not?

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  89. Gosman (336 comments) says:

    The Labour Party are on some serious damage limitation on this one. Try and see if you can get a question about whether Phil Goff is going to make a statement on the outcome through moderation on Red Alert. Seems Phil’s views on the film industry are harder to find than a pork chop at the Mecca branch of MacDonalds.

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  90. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    @Rex,

    20,000,000 viewers huh? That’s $0.50 investment per hit… better than any direct marketing campaign could ever hope to achieve.

    Let’s say that 0.1% come to NZ as a result and spend $1,000 each. That’s $20,000,000.

    Not a bad return at all.

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  91. Right of way is Way of Right (1,129 comments) says:

    The vitriol on the Standard and Red Alert is just mind numbing, it really is!

    They simply refuse to admit the whole thing was started by the MEAA and Simon Whipp calling for a global boycott of the Hobbit, instead choosing to beleive the whole thing was an orchestrated collusion between Warner Bros and the NZ Government. How on (middle) earth could either of those organisations have managed to get Simon Whipp to do anything?

    (Unless Simon Whipp is simply a computer generated animation, it’a amazing what those WETA guys can do, really it is!!)

    15 Million dollars for two movies. How much did the Labour Government spend on Team New Zealand again?

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  92. mattyroo (1,001 comments) says:

    Bloody hell Loota, seems you’ve got some multiple personality disorder going on.

    Over on the stranded you posted;

    I think the next post should be about a long needed campaign to make a new generation of NZ’ers – whether they are on wages or on salary – understand what modern unionism is about, the core values from yesteryear which still hold true, and why today modern workers need a union more than ever.

    Then you come here and tell lastmanstanding;

    Wow, let ancient history go and look forwards.

    So what do you want a return to the 50′s union values or look forward to something new?

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  93. Right of way is Way of Right (1,129 comments) says:

    Quick check, 5.6 million for Team New Zealand, for very little return, and employing a damn sight less people than the Hobbit will! With a great deal more world wide appeal!

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  94. Gosman (336 comments) says:

    Noone at the Standard, or many other left wing blogs (with the notable exception of a few such as PA), seems willing to deal with the issue of the Blacklist being slapped on BEFORE negotiations had even started on what terms and conditions the Hobbit would be under. It is as if they have a convenient blindspot for that rather glaring flaw in their rosy view of Unionism.

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  95. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “…and I believe John Key has made other concessions kept below the radar.”

    So French believes in something he has no proof for and disbelieves something that he does have proof for? Must be a Labour supporter.

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  96. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “…and then the nobody who played gollum …”

    Nobody? NOBODY!?!? I guess you havent heard of a little game called HEAVENLY SWORD?!?! The game with only the best acting performances ever seen in a video game?

    Way to beclown yourself Barnsley.

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  97. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    The irony is that the union action has destroyed wealth for more actors than it was ever meant to create. It lowered NZ’s attractiveness as a filming destination, and despite the governments efforts, that will mean NZ actors will be paid less than they otherwise would have.

    The governments actions kept this ONE film here (OK, 2 films, jeez quibble much?), and also mitigated the losses to actors. If the government hadnt taken these actions and the Hobbit left these shores, then that would have signaled that Wellywood was closed for business. As it stands, there will still be fewer films shot in NZ despite the governments actions, because of the Unions amateurish, idiotic, arrogant, self-centered, cocktarded actions. (The government might have saved the day, but they certainly didnt save the Unions bacon.)

    The actions have turned a massive loss into only a small loss, and that represents a gain of sorts. But it is not a gain that we want to have to repeat.

    Rex is right in that it is not as if the entire budget of the movie will be spent in NZ, but I think that if you add up all the expenditure from future films being shot here that would not have come here if the deal wasnt done, then the ledger looks a bit better.

    I also think Rex is right, in that the DVD concession doesn’t really represent $10m worth of value. Imagine what $10m in ad time in London, during winter, is worth. Now compare THAT to what the govt got. Still, Rex, it is better than nothing.

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  98. Robinson 666 (115 comments) says:

    Warner Bro’s got everything they wanted, well done!

    Warner Bro’s know for sure the effects of the recession, and the rising unemployment figures in NZ, and how John Key is desperate to keep the movie here!

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  99. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    The amount of union hatred here comes as no surprise. Those who try to deny union bashing and conservatism go together only need to read threads like these. Once again the antagonism is frequently sparked by some claimed experience many years ago.

    Much of the debate is abusive and childish, lacking any valid reasoning.The facts are simple. The dispute between the actors and Warner was resolved. Then Warner saw an opportunity to screw some more money out of NZ and threatened to pull the plug.

    Terrified of losing votes,the government panicked and caved in.

    To blame that on the unions is a huge leap of faith. Yet people here state this as a fact, but are unable to give any suuporting argument.

    It is because I say it is. So there.

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  100. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Gosman, I am perfectly happy to deal with the issue of the black list and its timing. It was a prenegotiation shot across the bows, crude, perhaps. but a legitimate tool nonetheless.

    No different from Warners threatening to pull out BEFORE meeting with the government to discuss the tax breaks, something rightwingers seem determined to ignore.

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  101. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “Warner Bro’s know for sure the effects of the recession, and the rising unemployment figures in NZ, and how John Key is desperate to keep the movie here!”

    Yep. So when the opportunity to renegotiate with the government is handed to them on a silver platter, they would have been stupid not to take advantage of the situation. Afterall, they are the ones in the best negotiating position, right? They can make their movie anywhere with people, grass and hills.

    It should be obvious to anyone that Warner Bro’s is an evil capitalist organisation that will jump at the chance to take advantage of that sort of situation.

    Yet somehow it wasnt obvious to the stupid morons at the tiny Union that gave them an opportunity that would not have been available in any other way.

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  102. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “Once again the antagonism is frequently sparked by some claimed experience many years ago.”

    So you dont believe that the Unions of 30 years ago did bad things? It isnt just that you dont think it is relevant today, that todays Unions are somehow different. You dont actually think that they could possibly have done anything wrong! What conceit!

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  103. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “Terrified of losing votes,the government panicked and caved in.”

    No shit they caved in! Just like I said above, just as it was obvious how Warner’s would react, it was obvious that the government would be forced to “do something” to keep the production here. It was obvious to everyone except the arrogant twats at the Union.

    Their little “negotiating gambit” backfired and then things played out as you would expect. The Studio says, jeez, we thought making movies in NZ was going to be cheaper, but if this little upstart union can scuttle our entire project, maybe filming in NZ is no longer viable. We will have to look elsewhere or get a higher expected rate of return from the project in NZ to make up for the higher risk.

    The government, knowing that there is little keeping the production in NZ other than lower costs, goodwill, and stability (all of which is threatened by the boycott) could see that the public did not want to lose the production so spent some of the publics money to keep it here.

    Obvious. Obvious. Obvious. To everyone except the brain-dead losers at the Union.

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  104. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    What the fuck did the Union think was going to happen? How strong did they think their position was? How could they be so wrong in their calculations?

    Why are there still people defending those Union cretins, when their stupidity and arrogance has cost the New Zealand taxpayer MILLIONS of dollars during a goddamned recession? Do you know how many better things that money could have been used for?

    How can any Unionised actor still support those tools and their Australian carpetbagger, when the net result of their obviously flawed, a predictably doomed strategy is a reduction in wealth for NZ actors? THATS irrational.

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  105. kiwi in america (2,461 comments) says:

    Maggie
    You need to deal in facts and not slogans. Various people on this thread have expressed their disdain for unions because of the capricious and underhanded way they were treated by union officials. As a union official are you trying to deny that such tactics were undertaken because if you are then you are in cloud cuckoo land. Employment relations laws hopefully are there to regulate the excesses of both sides and to instill an attitide of good faith. I’m going to repost what I said to Tom Gould on a previous thread because it applies to you and your sneering dismissal of what you blithefullt describe as nothing more than a “preneogiation shot across the bows”

    The facts, the timeline, the sequencing of this entire thing has been spelled out to you backed by numerous independent sources and still you cling to the great WB conspiracy. This matter is so simple its as plain as the nose on your face – simple enough for the vast majority of ordinary NZers to see it for what it is. An aggressive Aussie actors union saw a window of opportunity to impose collective bargaining on its recalcitrant neighbour in NZ. Knowing the sensitivity of the negotiations over the Hobbit and knowing that Warners and the rest might possibly see the threat of ongoing workforce disruption as not a good thing (a wise and normal business assessment of risk), they tried to blackmail Jackson into giving up the independent contractor model thus allowing AE and MEAA the power and control over the bouyant NZ film industry that they have been coveting now for decades. It was a naked power play calibrated carefully to achieve what every Mafia thug has done for decades “Nice little business you have there – shame you might have to loose it”. Its the time honoured shakedown tactic used by thugs and extortionists for centuries.

    You know Tom the Employment Relations Act has at its centre piece the notion of GOOD FAITH bargaining. Certainly the Act requires that of employers explicitly and implicitly of the unions. In most negotiations of this type, they normally always begin in good faith. Sure they can deteriorate and strikes/lockouts are part of the ramp of negotiations. In the global and highly mobile world of movie acting and production, a global boycott is the kiss of instant death. The equipment, creative skills and actors are 100% mobile and the entire industry can literally flee a country overnight . Thus to threaten an industry destroying boycott as your OPENING negotiating gambit was provocative in the extreme and beyond foolishness because the backlash has become so swift and total.

    MEAA and their supporters in NZ could not persuade the bulk of NZ actors and other industry workers to adopt their policy of collective employment agreements vs independent contracts by fair means nor by the merits of the policy they promoted so they chose foul means. Hollywood’s studio moguls thought this Hobbit deal was but a signature away – the prospect of coming to NZ and prompting a law change was not on the minds of even the most devious and hard nosed of them. But faced with the uncertainty of global boycott (which are very rare in the industry) what right minded businessman in any industry let alone the ruthless denizons of Hollywood would put up with such a massive ramp up in uncertainty. It’s tantamount to crying rape and then at the trial of the accused finally the accuser recants and says sorry I didnt really mean to hurt – you just cant unscramble that omelette.

    The union movement and in particular the CTU whose ideological blinkers overrode common sense by wading in here has been hoist by their own petard.

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  106. kiwi in america (2,461 comments) says:

    Rex
    The package of NZ specific advertising will be attached to the Hobbit movie however it will be most usefully made available to the post movie watching public. Yes DVDs are becoming less popular and by the time the Hobbit is filmed and screened likely less so. It doesn’t matter how the movie is delivered whether by DVD or in a downloadable format or via other newer technology streams, the information on NZ will be part of the Hobbit package so I think you’re being overly pessimistic.

    There’s no point pining about Oprah not coming to NZ – it is what it is. I will say this after living in the US for 4 years I can tell you that the LOTR has massively increased the profile of NZ. When I lived here before in the late 80′s no one knew where NZ was. I worked in the travel industry at the time promoting customised tours to NZ – it was the devils job persuading Americans to even go to NZ because all they wanted to do was go to Australia thanks to Crocodile Dundee. So we did 2 country tour itineraries usually 75/25 in favour of Aussie and every group came back preferring NZ. That is no longer the case. EVERYONE down to the most facile xenophobic untravelled rube here has heard of LOTR and almost all connect it to NZ. The fact that 3 of my family had extra roles in the movie including a niece who had a hobbit child speaking part has become a easy and fascinating talking point. My niece (now 17) came up here on holiday 2 years ago and attended a youth camp with some friend’s daughters the same age and she became an instant celebrity at the camp on the strength of her three words spoken in the Fellowship of the Ring. THAT is the promotion power of what Jackson has done. The massive flow on promotional benefits of filming the seminal work of Tolkein’s writing will far exceed the minor tax rebate that the left is now crying into its beer over.

    It helps to have as PM someone who knows how to cut a deal and to see the big long term picture. That the unions managed to shoot themselves in the foot over this is a juicy bonus!

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  107. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    i would like Goff to condemn the deal, and declare a policy of never wanting any films to be made in NZ ever again.

    That is what his Union Masters want.

    Teachers, academics in general, and Unionists haven’t got a clue about the real world. Not a clue.

    So very Intellectual, that they always try and throw the baby out with the bath water. This is all very good news for common sense.

    Labour support will have been damaged as much as the revelation that they were planning to specifically regulate shower pressure in new house builds with retrospective policy in the wings.

    Never happy unless they are controlling everything despite it being intrusive, unhelpful, and against the will of the people.

    Come on Goff, let us hear your policy now.

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  108. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    Just think, if Kullen, Klark, and the rest of the Cabal hadn’t spent all the Billion Plus dollars on a knackered old train set.

    That money wasted, could have been spent so much more productively.

    NZ could ‘sponsor’ thousands of films here. Not that would be a result!!

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  109. tvb (4,229 comments) says:

    It is DVD and OTHER DIGITAL products REX. Why are you being so sour about this. Key has given a little more money but he has managed to leverage some tourist promotion off it. Now who would have thought to do that except John Key. The Unions are ducking making comment on the Law Law changes, I guess they will save their powder for another day. But the Government is trumping that by rushing it through the House today. I note Key has said they will look at the contractor/employee law distinction when the dust settles. So the issue is still live. This law while small in its appearance could finally set NZ firmly down the pathway of getting rid of Unions once and for all. That sets us apart from Australia. It will mean we will have a film industry unlike the dreadful Aussie Simon Tripp with that awful campy voice (I was stunned when I heard it – no wonder he made no comment in NZ) speaking for Australian worker.

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  110. DJP6-25 (1,295 comments) says:

    To turn Lenin’s quote around: “We shall hang the unions with rope they themselves will give us.” -:)
    Isn’t it nice when the enemy give you such effective weapons to use against them?

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  111. GNZ (228 comments) says:

    “Yep. So when the opportunity to renegotiate with the government is handed to them on a silver platter, they would have been stupid not to take advantage of the situation. Afterall, they are the ones in the best negotiating position, right?”

    Yes.
    But there is a second part to it where we have focused on bashing the union and the government has focused on defending WB (saying that it is all about the union strike nad not a oportunistic strategy).

    Of course the government knows that there is political milelage in making it look like they alost lost the hobbit and then retaining it also political mileage on being on peter jackson’s side not that of the union. And the right in general sees the benefit if having a good go at a union so that others think twice next time.

    all fair enough reasons – but in the end, they result in WB having a much more powerful bargaining position in the same way as the unions helped them. And the longer it went on the more commited the government was to giving WB whatever they asked for.

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  112. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Eternal shame on the unions for their failed attempt at economic sabotage. The CTU’s reputation has been severely dented as a result.

    Undoubtly, Helen Kelly and her comrades have been exposed as the useless and ineffective shit-stirrers they are.

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  113. CharlieBrown (916 comments) says:

    Does no-one here realise that the employment law change only applies to the movie industry? Why isn’t anyone appalled that this opportunity to rectify this problem wasn’t taken up at all types of employment? So, someone who signs on as a contractor, signs a contract as a contractor, can still claim they aren’t a contractor and have the law support them… bloody insane.

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  114. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    I never thought you were so naive, David. These handouts wouldn’t have been necessary were it not for the union boycott? You must be joking. Still, you seem to believe that the average teacher gets paid $71K which is curious given that the top rate of pay is less than $70K. So maybe I shouldn’t be surprised by your glib comment. It must warm your heart to know that the government is helping to increase the profits of a an overseas company. Meanwhile, in other news, Phil Healtey is complaining that taxpayers are subsidising state tenants and promises to rectify this anomaly. Consistency is not this government’s strong point.

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  115. WebWrat (516 comments) says:

    Maggie the commo:
    “Then Warner saw an opportunity to screw some more money out of NZ and threatened to pull the plug.”

    So Warners come to our little country, give our film industry a huge boost, employ thousands of people, increase trade and profit for all associated businesses and services and enhance our reputation as a tourist destination.

    Being a business entity they correctly want to produce the movie as cheaply as they can and maximize their profit.

    As a reward for doing us a huge favour Warners get to give our Govt x millions of their dollars in tax.

    Now we have the leftards bleeting about Key giving them more of a tax break.

    In all this dribble about the unions and the movie, I haven’t seen one of you so-called righties mention the fact that the Govt are ‘giving’ Warners nothing … they are TAKING less of THEIR money off them.

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  116. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    > someone who signs on as a contractor, signs a contract as a contractor, can still claim they aren’t a contractor and have the law support them… bloody insane.

    No, what’s insane is signing as a contractor but doing the work of an employee. I suggest you read the Court’s judgment. Clearly, the government doesn’t like the Court’s decision, so it intends to change the law.

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  117. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    > So Warners come to our little country, give our film industry a huge boost, employ thousands of people, increase trade and profit for all associated businesses and services and enhance our reputation as a tourist destination.

    Geez, the way you put it we don’t have to die to go to heaven because Warners are bringing it with them :) So given the huge financial benefits that Warners are apparently bringing, inevitably we’ll see a cut in tax rates? Didn’t think so.

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  118. Inventory2 (10,161 comments) says:

    And who was it who challenged the law in the first place? The court case referred to was funded by the CTU! Talk about double standards; the CTU is happy to use members’ funds to challenge the law, but it gets all uppity when the government proposes a change to the law.

    Those on the left are accusing John Key of demonising the unions. He hasn’t had to; Simon Whipp, Helen Kelly and a couple of actors in bit parts have done that for the PM!

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  119. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    > Warner Bro’s know for sure the effects of the recession

    So we’re going to a see a fall in movie ticket prices? Yeah right.

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  120. CharlieBrown (916 comments) says:

    “No, what’s insane is signing as a contractor but doing the work of an employee. I suggest you read the Court’s judgment. Clearly, the government doesn’t like the Court’s decision, so it intends to change the law.”

    I work in IT – Every company I have worked at employed contractors – they do exactly the same job as an employee – however, normally part of being a contractor is you get paid more but have no job security. A person shouldn’t sign on as a contractor if they want job security. There is often no difference between the work of a contractor and the work an an employee.

    Why didn’t the government change the law if they don’t like it? Why leglislate an exception rather than make it across the board? It all points to John Key liking the screwed up employment law we have. Also, if the gov’t didn’t like the law – why did they wait untill now to even add an exception (not change).

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  121. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,811 comments) says:

    ross at 7.19

    You’re not quite there.

    What’s insane is signing as a contractor but allowing yourself to be treated as though you are an employee.

    Contractors have many privileges unavailable to employees and it is common for smart arse corporate employers to demand from contractors the same blind loyalty and servility they often demand of employees.

    When you are a contractor you don’t have to sing the company song, just do your job as best you can. You don’t have to ask for leave, you take it and tell the bastards. It’s wonderful.

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  122. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    Adolf, try reading the Court’s judgment, you might learn something.

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  123. ross (1,454 comments) says:

    > if the gov’t didn’t like the law – why did they wait untill now to even add an exception (not change).

    Good question – I’m guessing that Warners said “Jump” and John Key bravely replied: “How high?”

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  124. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Rex,

    “Which is the better deal, tourism wise:
    - Key’s $US10 million to get… let’s be very generous and say 10% of purchasers will watch the travelogue… 20 million viewers.
    - Or the AU$3 million spent by the Australians to get Oprah to come there and film her show, which will be seen by 40 million in the US alone and screened in 145 countries?”

    Rex, they are not ‘either or’ scenarios. Spending this $10m was required to keep the production here. It doesn’t stop us spending money on tourism promotion in other areas. It is not accurate to present them as one of two options.

    BTW – If only 5% of the 20% who watch the extras decide to visit NZ, that is an additional 1m visitors coming here and spending money. How is that a bad thing.

    (Incidentally, using your example above, I think a greater % of people who might be motivated to watch those DVD extras would also be motivated to visit NZ than the audience of an prah show that happened to be filmed here – greater audience, but likely less visits resulting from it.)

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  125. kiwi in america (2,461 comments) says:

    Ross
    Parliament is the highest court in the land. Last time I looked at NZ’s Constitutional conventions Parliament writes our laws and the Courts INTERPRET them. Parliament has the right to change law. National last time I looked won the last election handily and on a platform of some incremental changes to employment law. If this law change to clarify independent contractors for this specific industry to sort out this mess the unions caused was put to a referendum it would pass overwhelmingly. Likewise were National to test the will of the people on this issue and specifically how Key has handled the Hobbit movie fiasco I’d wager good money they’d win an outright majority.

    Much as I know it sticks in your lefty unionist craw, you are way on the wrong side of public opinion on this. Key has read the will of mainstream NZers well and Helen Kelly and her union mates have been shown up as nothing more than power hungry dicks.

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  126. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    When will Key learn to pronounce and speak English properly? His words sound slurred and, at times, incomprehensible.
    Pointed question coming from a non-English speaking person. :-)

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  127. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Caleb John Key is not the head of state, hes the prime minister. The Queen is the head of state.

    Jesus christ and you want to trust these people with a republic?

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  128. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    Maggie (90) Says:
    October 28th, 2010 at 2:25 am

    Gosman, I am perfectly happy to deal with the issue of the black list and its timing. It was a prenegotiation shot across the bows, crude, perhaps. but a legitimate tool nonetheless.

    Maggie, you are a legitimate fool. The action was illegal, stupid and cost the living standards of evey New Zealander unneceessarily.
    Not in 60 odd years have I meet a union tool that even understood those things. Despite negotiationg with some that were negotiating a good cause.
    And that’s the problem with dogma as oppossed to common sense.
    Go away.

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  129. Say Goodbye to Hollywood (556 comments) says:

    Jeez, watching Helen Kelly this morning you would have thought she had been sucking on few lemons before going on. This will go down as a major cluster fuck for the unions no matter how they spin it.

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  130. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    Rex, I’m pleased you work for the Aussies.
    Why, well because nothing good that is done here gets a thumbs up from you. Sad really.
    Oprah gets what 40 minutes of trash viewing with mostly broke people who will more than likely never go travelling further than the couch to the kitchen to the takeaway.

    DVD’s etc go right tothe heart of the fans who will travel to see syuff as they did with theHobbit.
    the Success will be in the merging of the information etc into the DVD’s. But even morre important to that is the ability to leverage internet and all other forms of publicity withthe Hobbits. Its connected world and more powerful than most realise.

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  131. coventry (316 comments) says:

    “NZ could ‘sponsor’ thousands of films here. Not that would be a result!!”

    Thinking outside the box, should the NZ Super Fund be taking on a funding roll for some of these productions ? It would be investing in the NZ economy, supporting local industry & the potential returns far better than any train set will give us.

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  132. big bruv (13,450 comments) says:

    Well said Viking2

    Rex cares a lot about NZ, he is prepared to do anything he can for his country…

    Apart from live here…..

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  133. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    Is this the right time for a “We won. You lost. Eat that!” ?

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  134. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Viking2, name calling does your cause no good, it just makes you look petty.

    Kimble, you put words in my mouth I never uttered. My point is that it is myopic to allow one elderly experience to colour a view of an entire movement for a lifetime. It is a desperate attempt to find some logic in thinking which is just irrational.

    Can anyone here explain this:

    Why would a film maker who does business every day in the US (where there are no tax breaks and unions are far more militant) have a problem with NZ?

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  135. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    So Warners come to our little country, give our film industry a huge boost, employ thousands of people, increase trade and profit for all associated businesses and services and enhance our reputation as a tourist destination.

    Being a business entity they correctly want to produce the movie as cheaply as they can and maximize their profit.

    As a reward for doing us a huge favour Warners get to give our Govt x millions of their dollars in tax.

    Now we have the leftards bleeting about Key giving them more of a tax break.

    Yep that’s right. and because their very members will be classed as rich pricks doing this we should raise the taxes on these rich pricks just like Cullen would.

    But the nice Mr Key has given them tax reductions.

    Why would anyone support the numb skulls in the unions?
    Oh! to make a donation to them so they can contnue to manage their investor relations for their members and increase their Wealth( union representatives that is.)

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  136. Lance (2,534 comments) says:

    @Ross
    “> Warner Bro’s know for sure the effects of the recession

    So we’re going to a see a fall in movie ticket prices? Yeah right.”

    What a complete dick. You seem to be pro union and have absolutely zero economic intelligence…………. yep…. no surprises there.
    Just for you…. kindergarten economics 101….. if people have less money- they buy less movie tickets.

    Now run along, you are depriving a village of an idiot somewhere.

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  137. TEO (33 comments) says:

    Ahh, it’s a beautiful day in Middle Earth once again. Let’s hope those pre-historic Ring Wraiths from the union movement F off back to Mordor for a very very long time.

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  138. Guy Fawkes (702 comments) says:

    Key gets labeled with the ‘Smile and Wave’ tag.

    Better than Goffs ‘Scowl and shrug’ I reckon.

    What a total non-entity in terms of political gravitas.

    Helen Kelly might find that she has screwed all chances of a political future. Her presentation this morning made my heart sing.

    just fabulous, and so out of touch with the will of the people. Labour and their Union Masters have lost all resonance with centre and right of the entire country, and are now under a cloud with centre and left. Keep going like they are doing and they will keep themselves out of power for the next century.

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  139. Owen McShane (1,226 comments) says:

    If you are looking for a prime cause it is the collapsing US dollar.

    INternational contracts are being undermined all around the world and will either have to be renegotiated or abandoned.

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  140. mattyroo (1,001 comments) says:

    Another good outcome from this, the Green’s are screaming;

    A deal between Warner Bros executives and Government ministers was confirmed last night after two days of negotiations.

    The announcement was widely applauded – except by the Green Party, which called the plan for a law change “outrageous”

    As soon as the Green’s say something like this you know it’s gotta be a good thing!

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  141. Inventory2 (10,161 comments) says:

    Guy Fawkes said

    Key gets labeled with the ‘Smile and Wave’ tag.

    Better than Goffs ‘Scowl and shrug’ I reckon.

    I can think of a better sobriquet for Phil Goff just now – Where’s Wally?; Goff has been missing in action for the last week on this issue.

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  142. Nookin (3,139 comments) says:

    Maggie
    Possibly because in NZ the unions threaten to close a production before any negotiations start in order to force the producer to kowtow to a union that wants to change industry practices and bring in to it own fold workers who up until now have been independant contractors. Instead of reminding itself that good faith negotiation is a cornerstone on industrial relations in NZ it starts of with a positional and threatening stance which is designed to intimidate. Maybe that’s why.

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  143. MikeE (555 comments) says:

    From what I understand we aren’t “paying” them anything. They get to keep 7.5 million more of their own money. As far as I know this has a cost of 0 to the taxpayer, unlike half of the stuff that NZ on air etc makes.

    7.5mill is a tax credit, taken out of tax they are already paying, and wouldn’t be paying at all if they movie was made off shore. Can we at least get a small amount of economic literacy into the argument.

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  144. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Maggie,

    “Why would a film maker who does business every day in the US (where there are no tax breaks and unions are far more militant) have a problem with NZ?”

    Because the union movement threatened the studio’s investment and returns with their recent actions. To remain here the studio required certainty that there would be no more disruption that would threaten their investment. For clarification Maggie, a promise on letterhead (from CTU) does not constitute certainty (particularly given both the way the unions had behaved and their continuing rhetoric.)

    Added to that were the recent offers the studio had received about incentives elsewhere. They are then obliged to assess the overall return to their shareholders and factor that into their decision. Again, for clarification Maggie, this issue would have been avoided had the unions agreed to accept the original, reasonable, terms offered. By not doing so, and going nuclear, the unions opened the door to the studio being able to use this leverage.

    The good news is the additional ‘cost’ is not really cost at all, but just a little less tax we will receive from the production – which is still a great deal more than the $0 we would have got had the movie been made elsewhere.

    The additional good news is that the invoice that will (should) be presented to the unions

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  145. badmac (139 comments) says:

    Maggie

    Why would a film maker who does business every day in the US (where there are no tax breaks and unions are far more militant) have a problem with NZ?
    —————————————————————

    Simple business, which being from the Union you know nothing about, except that “businesses exploit there workers”.

    The CBA (Cost Benefit for you Maggie) would have been done a while ago and constantly tweaked before the final decision to go ahead, Remember Warner et al are broke and borrowing the money to make the film, to make a return, to pay off the loan and some of their debt (I am sure they would like to return to the black on a single production but it won’t be that successful).

    Then the crunch point comes, you go back over your numbers, risks, assumptions again and you decide to go ahead and start booking people, spending on sets, etc. You have a final “Go, No Go point whereby you commit and start bleeding money, that point was this month. Then before the final decision along comes the Union uses a world wide blacklist as its opening gambit in a negotiation. That invalidates one of your assumptions and changes the risk profile of your investment. You have to go back over your numbers again, this opens the door for others to say “we told you so” and “its cheaper to do it there”, or “go see if you can get these guys to share some of the risk”.

    End result, the film became a riskier investment. Who cares what the Union said about it being settled. How do you trust somebody whose opening gambit was a worldwide blacklist and an attempt to do something illegal in NZ. They might say they will play nice to get you to start spending your money, but once they have you fully committed then they stick the knife in. And as you say the Union are far more militant in the US, so from experience they know where it could lead.

    No brainer to try and mitigate the risk. When will unions learn that they create nothing, sure they fight for workers rights and are very strong when injustices are done, but in and of themselves they do not create wealth for anybody, they are by definition a parasite, living of the exertion of others, just like the Government.

    And just to remind everybody, the Government has NOT given anything away. They have agreed to rebate 15% of any money spent in NZ, that means that 85% of an American companies money (foreign investment in our economy) spent in NZ sloshes around being absorbed by the workers, the creators, and ultimately the Government.

    I simply don’t understand how its bad to have somebody else spend their money on New Zealanders. Especially in hard economic times.

    Why can’t the Union simply admit it made a mistake, say sorry and move on. They would win more support than trying to shift the blame and spin it trying to hurt the Government. The fault has already been decided by the public, it will show up in the next opinion poll so move on.

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  146. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    Maggie says “The amount of union hatred here comes as no surprise. Those who try to deny union bashing and conservatism go together only need to read threads like these.”

    Well, you might get away with lecturing your union members in an attempt to control any discussion they might have, but round here we can speak freely. You don’t control the language here.

    “Once again the antagonism is frequently sparked by some claimed experience many years ago.”

    Some ‘claimed” experience? Calling me a liar are you? Typical unionist.

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  147. BeaB (2,072 comments) says:

    Three thoughts.
    How much did Labour happily pour into LOTR and the Americas Cup?
    Why are some NZers so keen to cut off their nose to spite their face?
    John Key has achieved a real coup – god forbid we give him any credit.

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  148. dime (9,606 comments) says:

    Goddam! Colour me impressed.

    We done Mr Key!!!

    Classic win win negotiation. Something never displayed by the previous govt!

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  149. Banana Llama (1,105 comments) says:

    So National just won the next election by the looks of it.

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  150. MT_Tinman (3,033 comments) says:

    Well done John Key.

    Had DPF’s girlfriend, the previous PM, been “negotiating” I have no doubt the press release would have included “The PM has agreed to appear in the movies, her wages being paid to an organisation of her choice”.

    The communist lady is correct by the way, I hate unions – with a passion!

    Difference is that unlike communists who hate capitalism out of envy I hate unions because experience has shown me they are hateful, disgusting, dishonest organisations.

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  151. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    Tinman,

    She was in the last movies, as an Orc. They had hoped to save a ton of money on makeup, but the reality was they spent more trying to tone her down, such was her visage.

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  152. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    Now to respond as a movie watcher.

    I was looking forward to The Hobbit being produced overseas.

    I am sick of seeing NZ actors popping up in side roles in big budget films. You will be watching a movie and getting into the story, getting swept up by the flow of thing, buying into the characters, their motivations, their emotions and then BOOM!… you get side-swiped by a bit part played by a NZ actor with a single line that is grossly hammed-up and delivered in either an obviously false, or utterly incongruous accent.

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  153. dime (9,606 comments) says:

    kimble – HAHAHA youre so right. The worst case was the last star wars trilogy. Not cool at all.

    Kiwi actors think they are paid by how many different expressions they can do every minute.

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  154. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    bhudson/badmac: Neither of you, despite your verbosity, has answered my question. I didn’t ask for your views on the NZ situation, but an explanation as to why the movie makers treat NZ quite differently from the US.

    The answer’s simple: They know the Obama government isn’t a pushover. Now they know the Key administration is.

    Rich Prick: take a valium and calm down.

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  155. badmac (139 comments) says:

    Maggie, you just chose not to understand. A common theme.

    Nz was considered low risk without militant unions. Your lot changed that and meant they had to redo their CBA using new assumptions and risks. Probably now more aligned to the USA risks around unions. It changed the risk profile in terms of contingencies around delays due to union action (factored into US productions but previously set as low risk for NZ).

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  156. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Maggie, have you ever heard the term “Cut off your nose to spite your face”?

    Cause quite frankly, you sound like you would refuse work or business with someone even if it meant you or your family would starve, all for nothing really… Take the Hobbit for example – Jackson was already offering better pay (including residuals) than previously on offer to NZ actors, and also better than the SAG minimum. So what were they actually trying to achieve? Or were they just anti-Peter Jackson cause he now owns a private jet?

    Actually, on second thought – you only want other people’s family’s to starve don’t you? You’ll be comfortable somewhere else…

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  157. Right of way is Way of Right (1,129 comments) says:

    SPADA’s press release yesterday summs up the entire situation perfectly!

    The Hobbit: SPADA response to MEAA newsletter

    SPADA
    Wednesday 27 October, 2010

    Yesterday the Media Entertainment & Arts Alliance (MEAA) issued a newsletter to its members, attempting to explain and justify the industrial action it initiated against THE HOBBIT. A number of statements made in this communication are mischievous, misleading or false.

    At a time when SPADA was hoping trust and goodwill were restored, this communication is divisive and destructive.

    The continued re-writing of history by MEAA as they try and paper over their failures must stop. The MEAA must acknowledge and accept the consequences of their actions. We have previously put out a Fact Sheet. In the light of yesterday’s mischievous and misleading release we feel it is important for
    us to make 11 key points:

    1. MEAA Position:
    “NZ Equity has also sought to bargain with the screen producers association SPADA. For a variety of reasons none of these attempts have been successful.”

    SPADA Response:
    It is surprising that these ‘variety of reasons’ are not specified in their newsletter to members.

    When MEAA first came into NZ, we received verbal assurances from Simon Whipp that they would abide by the Pink Book until we agreed otherwise.

    In spite of this, on 4 separate occasions (Outrageous Fortune, This is Not My Life, The Cult, The Hobbit), MEAA have directly targeted productions.
    In spite of this SPADA has consistently been happy to meet with Actors Equity.

    SPADA initially offered to meet with NZ Actors’ Equity in February 2009 to discuss the Code of Practice for the Engagement of Cast in the New Zealand Screen Production Industry dated 6 June 2005 (and more commonly known as the “Pink Book”). Subsequently SPADA offered to meet on a non agenda basis to have an open discussion in good faith. However NZ Actors’ Equity would only agree to meet to discuss an industry wide agreement containing conditions of employment no less favourable than those in Australia to be negotiated by the
    MEAA. This was unworkable given SPADA, as has been confirmed by the Attorney General, cannot legally enter into a union negotiated agreement.

    On 1 October 2010 SPADA reiterated its offer to meet with NZ Actors’ Equity.

    On 12 October 2010 SPADA, having had no acceptance of its offer, again reiterated its offer to meet with NZ Actors’ Equity, with some urgency.
    Finally, on 14 October 2010 at a meeting brokered by Hon Gerry Brownlee, SPADA met with representatives of NZ Actors’ Equity and the parties agreed they would enter a period of discussion and good faith negotiation on the Pink Book.

    It is our absolute and clear opinion that Simon Whipp’s intention was to manipulate the situation in such a way that these meetings between SPADA and Equity never took place.

    We believe it was his preference to engage in direct industrial action against productions.

    Which leads us to the second point.

    2. MEAA Position:
    “All NZ Equity sought was to meet with the production and discuss the conditions under which performers would be engaged.”

    SPADA Response:
    All the polite chit chat about having a ‘cup of tea’ is a fantasy. The boycott (because that’s exactly what it was), began back in June. Well before the ‘cup of tea’ suggestions. At a meeting believed to be in June 2010, the FIA resolved as follows:
    “Resolved, that the International Federation of Actors urges each of its affiliates to adopt instructions to their members that no member of any FIA affiliate will agree to act in the theatrical film The Hobbit until such time as the producer has entered into a collective bargaining agreement with the Media Entertainment and Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand providing for satisfactory terms and conditions for all performers employed on the productions.”

    At this point the production had not issued any final performer’s contracts.

    Accordingly, neither MEAA nor FIA had any reason to believe that performers wouldn’t be contracted on “satisfactory terms and conditions”. They were prepared to boycott without any justification. Those terms and conditions have subsequently been found to be satisfactory by the NZ actors cast in roles.

    NZ Actors Equity didn’t just seek a cup of tea / meeting with the production. An international boycott was issued prior to a meeting being sought on 17 August 2010.

    And don’t forget that collective bargaining with the producer is illegal, something confirmed by the Attorney General and the Crown Law Office, and that Simon Whipp should have known before activating the boycott.

    3. MEAA Position:
    “The Board formed the view that in the interests of harmony between cast and crew and for the sake of the NZ screen industry the commitments made in discussions with SPADA were significant enough to justify ending the dispute with The Hobbit.”

    SPADA response:
    What SPADA agreed recently is exactly what we’ve been trying to achieve for some time.

    What SPADA “committed to” is to meet. What MEAA have achieved is what they would have got if they had sat down with us over 18 months.

    4. MEAA Position:
    “Why is the studio behind The Hobbit talking about moving the production away from New Zealand? This is not due to industrial uncertainty.”

    SPADA response:
    This sort of disingenuous mischievous nonsense is sadly becoming the norm. Before the boycott the film would have been shot here without the events of the past few weeks.

    Boycott equals industrial uncertainty. Industrial uncertainty is what’s caused this mess. Without the boycott there is no question that the production would have calmly gone ahead without any visit required by a major delegation of Warner execs.

    5. MEAA Position:
    “Was our campaign for a fair deal on The Hobbit worthwhile?”

    The contracts now being offered by the producers of The Hobbit include conditions such as residual payments for performers. This is a great result considering how reluctant the producers were to improve performers’ terms and conditions.

    SPADA Response:
    We understood the deal now being accepted by agents for local actors on The Hobbit has not in any way been improved by the actions of MEAA. The residual deal was in place prior to MEAA’s actions, it was offered by the production. MEAA has achieved nothing positive by its actions.

    6. MEAA Position:
    “Was our campaign for a fair deal on The Hobbit worthwhile?”

    “As well as this, SPADA has agreed to meet with Equity to discuss performers’ terms and conditions for future screen productions.”

    SPADA Response:
    As previously stated we are now entering a negotiation period around the Pink Book, exactly what SPADA offered to do over 18 months ago. Ask yourself the rhetorical question. Have they achieved anything new?

    7. MEAA Position:
    “In the past the conditions set out in the Pink Book have been completely disregarded by producers.”

    SPADA Response:
    Not true and no examples have ever been given by union.

    8. MEAA Position:
    “The Pink Book is now being used as minimum – this is a huge step forward.”

    SPADA Response:
    This is a complete misrepresentation by MEAA. The Pink Book has been widely used in the industry and will continue to be used until it’s updated / improved at our next round of meetings.

    9. MEAA Position:
    “Our actions in no way jeopardised the filming of The Hobbit in New Zealand.”

    SPADA Response:
    Patently not true… and not believed by the NZ public as per public opinion polls

    10. MEAA Position:
    “It is ridiculous to say that asking for a meeting could have such an effect.”

    SPADA Response:
    As has been repeated several times the boycott was the major factor in creating the industrial concern which motivated Warners to look twice at NZ and seek a better deal.

    11. MEAA Position:
    “New Zealand performers approached this issue in a calm and professional manner and have every reason to be extremely proud of themselves.”

    SPADA response:
    Well that is a matter of opinion! SPADA doesn’t believe so and based on yesterday’s newsletter our faith in MEAA’s ability to conduct good faith negotiations has all but been eroded. The one time in the last 2 years SPADA have sat in the room with the MEAA, we felt positive about being able to move ahead in a considered, responsible and professional manner. Either side of that 3 hour meeting, it is our opinion that they have been mischievous and misleading to their members and the general public.

    The consequences of MEAA’s and in particular Simon Whipp’s actions have been divisive and destructive on the New Zealand screen production industry and have created a perception of industrial uncertainty which we can ill-afford. This is not a union working to save THE HOBBIT, nor act in the best interests of New Zealand, this is a union that continues to promote misinformation and mistruths for its own self-interest and preservation.

    It is vital for New Zealand’s reputation in the international film community that a climate of goodwill and trust is rapidly restored. It is becoming increasingly apparent that this unlikely if Simon Whipp and MEAA are in any way involved.

    ENDS.

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  158. badmac (139 comments) says:

    Well done Maggie the NZ unions are now more closely aligned with there militant US cousins(at least from a investment risk perspective) you should be proud of how that will help the common worker.

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  159. Arthur Dent (37 comments) says:

    I have new admiration for John Key after pulling this union debacle out of the mire.
    Nothing has been lost and everything has been gained. A good day for New Zealand and New Zealanders.

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  160. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    RightofWay – I agree that press release from SPADA lays it out very clearly.

    If MEAA/NZAE, CTU, Labour and Greens want to keep spinning I’m more than happy for them to repulse more and more voters.

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  161. Inventory2 (10,161 comments) says:

    @ Maggie – so Patrick Gower has got it wrong too then?

    The union movement has cost the taxpayer $34 million. It’s that simple. That’s what the Government had to pay out to keep the Hobbit.

    The unions have also given the Government room to ram through a law change that will seriously weaken their position – whoops!

    The unions were so far off the mark they even caused what were essentially anti-union marches, on Labour Day of all days.

    And the unions have written a script that says: “John Key saves the day for New Zealand from the nasty unions”. That seriously undermines their credibility – what a shocker. It also strengthens the hand of Key – who the unions have been targeting.

    This all adds up to give a new meaning to the word “perverse outcome”.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Thanks-Unions—add-34m-to-Hobbit-bill—blog/tabid/1382/articleID/183476/Default.aspx

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  162. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Inventory2: There is an interesting link in that article….

    http://www.3news.co.nz/NZ-out-if-Hobbit-turns-into-bidding-war—Key/tabid/418/articleID/183176/Default.aspx

    “And it seems Mr Whipp – an Australian – doesn’t really care about New Zealand either.

    He says he will feel no guilt if the movie isn’t made in New Zealand.”

    I just wish they had that on tape!

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  163. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    Bevan, they’ve got it on tape, let me find it for you.

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  164. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    badmac: You just continue to miss the point. A common theme.

    Warner Bros has continued to put up with union militancy in the US and has not demanded to be placated by tax breaks. To compare a threatened black list with a long and disruptive strike is ridiculous.

    Bevan, your questions are insulting. No doubt they were meant to be.

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  165. Roflcopter (444 comments) says:

    Bevan:- http://www.3news.co.nz/Hobbit-Simon-Whipp—public-enemy-number-one/tabid/367/articleID/183150/Default.aspx

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  166. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    “Rich Prick: take a valium and calm down.”

    I thought I was reasonably measured. Are you a little sensitive this week? Anyway, unionists do not tell me what to do. So there.

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  167. Inventory2 (10,161 comments) says:

    @ Maggie; actually, I think that someone else is missing the point, but the irony of that may be lost on you …

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  168. labrator (1,805 comments) says:

    To compare a threatened black list with a long and disruptive strike is ridiculous.

    Firstly, the black list wasn’t threatened, it was enacted. Now please explain why the comparing a blacklist to a strike is ridiculous? You’ve admitted strikes are disruptive and by implication you’re saying blacklists aren’t disruptive. If blacklists aren’t disruptive, then how did this whole situation come to be?

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  169. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Bevan:- http://www.3news.co.nz/Hobbit-Simon-Whipp—public-enemy-number-one/tabid/367/articleID/183150/Default.aspx

    Oh thats awesome! Mr Whipp being shown for what he really is. And to think Robyn Malcolm and Helen Kelly have been on his side all this time.

    True colours are now being shown.

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  170. Positan (384 comments) says:

    What is so revealing about the “opposed” comments made here is that they’re rendered, almost uniformly, from the perspective of the political outlook of those making the disgruntled noises – not from any perspective that would give any sort of consideration to the patently obvious benefits of the “Key” deal.

    Frankly, the Left shows itself to be a really sick political force. Just like communism of old, it takes political stance solely from the determination of who (ie political enemy) has done what – rather than what has been resultantly achieved for the great majority.

    The Hobbit-movie industrial fiasco has probably dealt Labour a death blow – it has thoroughly discredited all for which the CTU and union movement purport to stand. For Labour, in sitting on the sidelines and tacitly supporting the unions – it has not only showed that party’s total irrelevance as this country’s “loyal” opposition, it has self-underlined what a howling mistake it would be for voters ever to consider it as any sort of government-in-waiting.

    The CTU has never before received such a knockback. It pretty well compares to the emasculation of the Waterside Workers following the 1951 strike, during the events of which, weirdly enough, the CTU’s fore-runner, the FOL, was on the side of the National government. But even under the old cloth-cap FOL reigns of Skinner and Knox – with constant fomentation by Pat Kelly, Kelly’s father – and all the FOL’s confrontations with Muldoon – never before has the union movement in NZ faced such vehement nationwide opposition as Kelly and the fatuously inept Malcolm have managed to inspire.

    I note too, the increased number of Leftist apologists on this blog and the sheer tommyrot of their politically-corrupted opinions. While I sympathise with their difficulties – Red Alert does purvey the most tediously uninspired twaddle it is possible to imagine – I feel that their matchlessly facile and insufferably inept observations do absolutely nothing that might persuade any thinking-person towards their objectives. Really and truly, this blog would be far richer without the constant dreariness of their soullessly negative and absurd views.

    Surely they could go someplace else in search of a life?

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  171. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    NZ tugs its forelock to Peter Jackson as the country’s taxpayers provide hundreds of millions of tax dollars and concessions that in part keep Jackson in new private jets.

    How hypocritical of ACT to back legislation on labour changes which in effect keep big taxpayer subsidies flowing to the film industry. Rodney and Heather’s off-key duet seems to have been the final scene of the final ACT. Let’s hope this clears the way for a true Right wing party that isn’t into subsidising trendy industries.

    Take time as you flit through Los Angeles to visit Hollywood and you see a rundown, seedy suburban centre. The action has moved elsewhere to harvest subsidies and other bribes with which countries and American states shower film companies. NZ is in the front row of the suckered. We’re so thick we feel honoured to be there.

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  172. badmac (139 comments) says:

    Maggie (97) Says:
    October 28th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
    badmac: You just continue to miss the point. A common theme.
    —————————————————————————

    I am reminded of a saying.

    Never argue with an Idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

    You nearly succeeded. But I am moving on.

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  173. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    Bevan, your questions are insulting. No doubt they were meant to be.

    Oh bullshit. What is insulting is you and your friends trying your best to ruin the livelyhoods of working kiwi’s under the guise that you are trying to protect their rights.

    Again, my questions:
    have you ever heard the term “Cut off your nose to spite your face”?
    So what were they actually trying to achieve?
    Or were they just anti-Peter Jackson cause he now owns a private jet?
    you only want other people’s family’s to starve don’t you?
    Lets paraphrase that one shall we: Would you have been financially effected if the NZ Film industry was ruined as a possible consequence of the actions of the CTU/MEAA?

    The questions aren’t hard Maggie, or maybe you – to quote the immortal line from Jack – ‘CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH’!

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  174. badmac (139 comments) says:

    Jack5 (2,232) Says:
    October 28th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    Is this a tag team, do the village idiots change shift at midday? Is it a full moon?

    Ask Maggie whether the Militant unions in Hollywood have anything to do with the vacant lots and movies being made in more stable economies (which luckily now again include New Zealand).

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  175. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Maggie,

    “Warner Bros has continued to put up with union militancy in the US and has not demanded to be placated by tax breaks. To compare a threatened black list with a long and disruptive strike is ridiculous.”

    Really? If so then why are they not filming The Hobbit in the US?

    I think it is self-explanatory

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  176. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    badmac, actually it’s just me logging in under different names and posting that drivel as parody ;)

    Some see people like Sir Peter Jackson as role models, and others want to chop them down to size. It’s brazen envy but those people have become so bitter and twisted that they can’t let it go.

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  177. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    It must be a bit sad for lefty union apologists when even their spin serves to prove to opposite. Oh, and Jack5, Jackson only has one jet. Get over it.

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  178. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    Badmac posted at 1.11:

    …Ask Maggie whether the Militant unions in Hollywood have anything to do with the vacant lots and movies being made in more stable economies (which luckily now again include New Zealand).

    Badmac, you’re a real hobbit if you think the NZ economy is more stable than that of the United States.

    Our remote archipelago has a chronic balance of payments deficit – we can’t pay our way in the world. The heavy subsidies to Hollywood film companies are partly a desperate move to buy trade. They are also partly the herd instinct that surfaces at all auctions. We are bidding against other suckers to win a glitzy, fashionable industry. The winning has become more important than what we buy.

    I’m not much of a union supporter, Badmac, but the Hollywood moguls rightly, as successful entrepreneurs, care about the expense side of the income statement. That means going where costs are low, and that is inevitably outside Hollywood. Tomorrow it will also be inevitably outside NZ. We haven’t got deep enough pockets to outbid richer countries that want the apparent prestige of Hollywood films made locally, or to bid against poorer countries where wages are lower and desperation will drive governments to outbribe NZ to win the Hollywood deals.

    In the meantime I congratulate the Hollywood film people on their strategy, their negotiation savvy, and their success. Would they consider please, taking on some of our young would-be politicians as business apprentices or interns? Better still, if they get bored, we should invite them to stand for Parliament here. They are very able people.

    As for Rich Prick at 1.28:

    …Jackson only has one jet. Get over it…

    I don’t mind how many jets Jackson has. I resent taxpayer subsidies helping him pay for them.

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  179. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    I think you misread what Badmac was saying. It isnt our stable “economy” that is attractive, it was our relatively benign employment relations situation. Note: was.

    Of course cost was the main concern, but the stability does inform on the certainty of that cost. If the uncertainty of the cost increases (as it undeniably did when the Union started their boycott) then the expected cost/benefit analysis must be rerun.

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  180. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Jack5,

    We are not paying WB anything. As has been pointed out a number of times over the past few days, we are merely agreeing to take less tax from them. The sum we will agree to take remains far greater than the sum ($0) we would have received had they made the movie elsewhere.
    What is more, making the film here does not deplete any resources, so we are not stripping our assets either.

    A bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush. While the economists choose to phrase it differently they use the same maxim in economic theory and practice.

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  181. Rich Prick (1,599 comments) says:

    Jack5, ” I resent taxpayer subsidies helping him pay for them.”

    I sense you feel worse off “subsidising” Warner brothers/Jackson. That is patently wrong. In order for Warner Brothers to receive a tax credit, it has to pay some tax. Had they taken production elsewhere the tax paid would be zero. With production here the tax paid with or without a concession, in either case will be more than zero. So none of it is coming from your pocket and you are not subsidising any one, Warner Brothers is simply getting to keep a little more of its own money. (Edit: oh bhudson beat me to it.)

    Now I don’t agree with picking winners who get to keep a little more of their own money, but that is another matter altogether.

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  182. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    Kimble posted at 1.55:

    If the uncertainty of the cost increases (as it undeniably did when the Union started their boycott) then the expected cost/benefit analysis must be rerun.

    If it was just about union action causing uncertainty why has the Government “agreed to up to $34 million in tax breaks and help with marketing costs”, as the NZ Hooer-ald reported today?

    The NZ film industry is/was heavily subsidised. It’s had hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tax breaks, and various handouts and incentives.

    The country lynched (politically speaking) Muldoon for similar economics to this decades ago (your father or grandfather may remember farm subsidies).

    Key is a dirigist centre-leftist. He was in free-market capitalism for himself, but obviously doesn’t believe in it for the rest of us.

    At 2pm BHudson posted:

    We are not paying WB anything. As has been pointed out a number of times over the past few days, we are merely agreeing to take less tax from them. The sum we will agree to take remains far greater than the sum ($0) we would have received had they made the movie elsewhere.

    A subsidy is a subsidy whether it’s a cash handout or a discount on tax payable. Some older posters may remember whether Muldoon’s farm subsidies were tax offsets or cash. Muldoon could certainly have used your argument that his farm subsidies would ultimate increase tax take, and foreign earnings. You may recall NZ nearly went bus internationally under Muldoon.

    Fiddling with tax assessment on an industry by industry basis, and worse on a case by case basis is heavily dirigist and anti-free market. It’s economically wrong and unfair. It’s picking winners, which governments and bureaucrats tend to be lousy at.

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  183. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    Rich Prick posted at 2.06:

    …In order for Warner Brothers to receive a tax credit, it has to pay some tax.

    Companies carry in their books accumulated losses which, if conditions such as timing and consistent ownership are met, they can use for future tax offsets.

    I would take into consideration these contingent assets if I were buying shares in such companies. They are contingent on making a future profit, and have been earned generally by hard slogging in start-up years.

    The Government is going to give NZ film joint ventures such contingent assets, without them having incurred losses in development years.

    Yet you, RP, and BHudson, argue that because these are offset against future profit, they are somehow not gifts at all?

    The Government is picking winners by offering such tax offsets to film financiers. Why not to other industries participating in the NZ economy?

    National and Key are dirigist, as Phil Gaffe and Labour are. Dirigisme could succeed if we had intelligent leaders and a semi-democracy like Singapore, but Muloonism has already shown that it doesn’t work in NZ.

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  184. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Jack5,

    “The Government is picking winners by offering such tax offsets to film financiers. Why not to other industries participating in the NZ economy?”

    In this instance Jack5 because it is new money being injected into the economy – foreign investment. Offering investment for (NZ) industries participating in the domestic economy would inject no new money. To offer other industries incentives for investment from offshore – if such investment is of significant scale & merit and does not amount to asset stripping, then the govt would be wrong not to at least consider it.

    What they really should be looking at is providing incentives to NZ companies to create new export opportunities – that is the way to really address our balance of Payment deficit.

    Jack5 – there is a difference between State control and encouragement

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  185. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “If it was just about union action causing uncertainty why has the Government “agreed to up to $34 million in tax breaks and help with marketing costs”, as the NZ Hooer-ald reported today?”

    To reduce the cost. How is that not obvious?

    The increased risk is being offset by a potentially higher profit (and specific law changes to reduce the risk).

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  186. Rex Widerstrom (5,307 comments) says:

    Viking2 says:

    Rex, I’m pleased you work for the Aussies.
    Why, well because nothing good that is done here gets a thumbs up from you. Sad really.

    The media, including this blog, generally highlight negative stories. Therefore most comments from most people (you included) tend to have a negative tone> Yes I criticise but I also endeavour to posit what I think are viable alternatives when I have one to offer. Moreso than do you.

    Oprah gets what 40 minutes of trash viewing with mostly broke people who will more than likely never go travelling further than the couch to the kitchen to the takeaway.

    Fair comment. You may well be right, but there’s not much research on which to base a comparison. Oprah can move hundreds of millions of dollars in consumer spending when, for instance, she recommends a book. But the per unit cost is of course very much smaller than a holiday.

    OTOH there’s virtually NO research on audience figures for DVD extras, let alone into their power to influence consumers. I’d have thought that before giving away $10 million of our money the government would want some cost benefit analysis. Clearly not. I wonder if anyone can join the lolly scramble or is it just the suits that Key’s used to doing deals with from his Merrill Lynch days… you know, a million here, ten million there, it all starts to blur by the time the expense account lunch is winding up…

    But even morre important to that is the ability to leverage internet and all other forms of publicity withthe Hobbits. Its connected world and more powerful than most realise.

    Kiwi in America makes the point above about how many Americans are aware of NZ as a result of seeing it in LOTR. Not a travelogue… as an integral part of those movies, as it will be in The Hobbit.

    Key has done well in keeping the movie here for that reason. And I have no doubt that the fact that it’s shot in NZ will be of benefit. My query is confined to the cherry-on-top $10 million Key seems to have wasted. If Warners simply said “Nah, give us another $10 million over and above even the generous tax concessions” then that ought to be disclosed rather than threating us like mugs and telling us it’s an “investment” in a “travelogue” no one’s going to see.

    big bruv says:

    Rex cares a lot about NZ, he is prepared to do anything he can for his country… Apart from live here…

    You know nothing about my situation BB. I’d remind you I didn’t come here voluntarily and if your preferred PM and his predecessor hadn’t made a dog’s breakfast of the country while I was away, and I could generate an income there, I’d be back.

    I’ve done, and continue to try to do, as much as I can for NZ when it would have been easy (and very tempting, after I was cut adrift over here) to turn my back on it. So don’t question my patriotism.

    Congratulations, that’s the most restraint I’ve ever had to summon to prevent myself launching a foul mouthed ad hom. You really are a supercilious plonker.

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  187. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “Rex cares a lot about NZ, he is prepared to do anything he can for his country… Apart from live here…”

    Its easy to care about NZ when you live here. Just like it is easy to care about your family when you live with them. What would you think of a son that moves out and never considers his familiy ever again? You seem to be demanding that the son live with the family for the rest of his life. Actually, that might explain something.

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  188. Avalon (39 comments) says:

    Jack5 (2,237) Says:
    October 28th, 2010 at 1:02 pm

    “NZ tugs its forelock to Peter Jackson as the country’s taxpayers provide hundreds of millions of tax dollars and concessions that in part keep Jackson in new private jets.”

    But tugging the same forelock to the unions is acceptable? Because they don’t have a private jet? Because they want to keep us all grateful to them for letting have the crumbs from their table? And while (again) I will not speak for anyone else – I will damn well assure you that I do not “tug my forelock” to anyone. I think for myself, put a (high) value on my time, and will not be considered to be a serf because you personally have an issue with Sir Peter Jackson being rich.

    Blimey – this country has more class issues than England by miles. It’s a bit depressing really. The unreasoning hatred some people here have for anyone who is rich is just beyond belief. I’m glad not everyone is that narrow minded.

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  189. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Labrator, a black list was threatened. It wouldn’t come into effect until Jackson tried to recruit workers and they refused. Then it becomes a black list in existence and not just a threat. Just like saying you are going to strike isn’t the same as striking.

    Get it, now?

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  190. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Avalon, I have no problem with Jackson being rich. I do have a problem with him being rich and subsidised by the government. I thought the National Party would have a problem with that, too. Apparently not. There are closer comparisons between Key and Muldoon than any Nat would care to recognise.

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  191. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    He’s not subsidised by the government Maggie, that’s just bollocks. In fact he pays a crap load of tax, so he’s actually subsidising the government.

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  192. RightNow (6,778 comments) says:

    “…Jackson only has one jet. Get over it…

    I don’t mind how many jets Jackson has. I resent taxpayer subsidies helping him pay for them.”

    I don’t care how many flat screen TV’s a person has either, and I also resent taxpayer subsidies helping them pay for them. Yet if I complain about how many beneficiaries buy how many flat screen TV’s will Jack5 support the complaint?

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  193. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Maggie – re your 4.23pm, Did you actually read the letter from the FIA?
    It seems a tad disingenuous to say a blacklist can only come into effect when the producers started employing people when because of the blacklist they could not employ anyone….but I guess you have to try to spin it all somehow

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  194. labrator (1,805 comments) says:

    Maggie, whilst I know I have no chance of changing your opinion, at least you can’t reply to me again without having read the following from the FIA:

    “Resolved, that the International Federation of Actors urges each of its affiliates to adopt instructions to
    their members that no member of any FIA affiliate will agree to act in the theatrical feature film “The
    Hobbit” until such time as the producer has entered into a collective bargaining agreement with the
    Media Entertainment & Arts Alliance for production in New Zealand providing for satisfactory terms and
    conditions for all performers employed on the production”

    Can you point out exactly where it says anything relating to future tense? Last time I consulted the dictionary “resolved” indicated a past tense, as in, something that has already happened. So when you say “threatened” are you being deliberately disingenuous or have you been unable to locate the numerously published lists of correspondence?

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  195. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    bhudson posted at 2.36:

    … it is new money being injected into the economy – foreign investment.

    And who else gets tax breaks on new investment in NZ? What other industry? I think the film industry is a National-Labour picked “winner”.

    As I read it in the NZ Hooer-ald today, the Government has agreed to ADDITIONAL write-offs for big budget films. So ongoing subsidies have been in existence for some time.

    Avalon posted at 4.04:

    ..tugging the same forelock to the unions is acceptable?

    I haven’t mentioned unions. My objection is to NZ’s taxation subsidy of the film industry. I applaud people who succeed, but believe State selection of “winner” industries and giving them special deals is wrong.

    Right now posted at 4.27 of Peter Jackson:

    He’s not subsidised by the government Maggie, that’s just bollocks. In fact he pays a crap load of tax, so he’s actually subsidising the government.

    Yes he is! If he’s on a special discounted tax rate compared with those in other industries, he’s subsidised.

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  196. Jack5 (4,752 comments) says:

    Rightnow posted at 4.31:

    …if I complain about how many beneficiaries buy how many flat screen TV’s will Jack5 support the complaint?

    Depends how many buy and how many they buy. I’ve no problem with a welfare state buying a TV for a paraplegic who can’t work. All new TVs now are flat screen (except maybe super expensive Loewe). They are a standard, not a luxury.

    But welfare spending is a separate topic from a state picking winning industries and offering subsidies to them.

    I’ve no problem with rich folk who have private jets. I have problems with the State picking winner industries and pampering them.

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  197. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    The New Zealand government is subsidising a movie to the tune of 100 million dollars at a time when CYFS gets 60,000 police referrals of children suffering under the blight of domestic violence.

    That’s 60,000 children being scarred for life and probably, although I haven’t researched this, most at risk of ending up either on a benefit or in prison (not much difference their, anyway).

    Compare that 100 million dollar subsidy to the movie industry to the 30 million dollar cost, according to the government, of the pay increase requested by the government to ensure that our children continue to enjoy some of the best teaching in the world.

    I have to question our priorities when it is self-evident that ensuring domestic violence is reduced and that our kids education is not compromised by miserly government, will result in far more long term economic gain that a fad movie.

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  198. RRM (9,590 comments) says:

    That’s 60,000 children being scarred for life

    No that’s not. CYFS is a legion of childless, useless 20-something girls with social work degrees, who can’t even return a phone call, let alone carry out an investigation and figure out whether *something* is in fact evidence of a child being abused, or just someone’s random flight of fancy. I would trust figures our dopey 19yo intern generates ahead of any that CYFS reports, and that’s saying something believe me.

    Not wanting to take anything away from your observation about priorities, but CYFS is not a good exhibit A.

    (And the economic returns from the movie filming are real and quantifiable. You don’t seriously think Key cut the deal because he wants NZ to give money away?? I’m not sure how you determine that the other things will result in “far more” economic gain.)

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  199. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Luc,

    The govt are not paying the studio the money – they are agreeing not to take the tax from them. The alternative is not to have the production here and receive $0 tax from it. That would really help the CYFS referrals you note, or the education costs for that matter.

    If you can’t fundamentally understand that perhaps you should try returning to the state education system to get a refresher on simple economics.

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  200. RRM (9,590 comments) says:

    Just read this analogy on another forum:

    Jessica Alba befriends you on Failbook and after chatting a while she says she wants to make the beast with two backs with you. She’s coming round now.
    You open the door and she discovers that you’re not as hot as she thought. Her immediate reaction is to walk away.
    “Wait!” you call out in desperation. “Not even a blowjob?”
    “Well…ok” she says.
    And you get a gobby from Jessica Alba.
    You win.

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  201. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    bhudson, I don’t think that Luc understands that the options were either the deal we gave Warners on their investment of $500M USD, or no additional deals and a $0 investment.

    And he has also forgotten that until the CTU/MEAA came along, it was $0 addtional from the gov, WITH the $500M USD investment.

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  202. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Bevan, I have no problem understanding the pragmatic deal done by the government to allay Jackson’s paranoia about employment law, and that WB levered off that to score more of our money. I’m happy for the actors and for Matamata (I come from the Waikato) but I’m left feeling just a little mucky about removing rights from a selected group.

    Personally, I would love it if the government made it easier for us all to be independent contractors, as the law has caused me problems but, alas, I’m not in the film industry.

    RRM, what a load of callous shit you talk. I wish CYFS had been around when I was a kid. But the wider issue is that domestic violence is such an issue: over 1000 reports, on average, per week from hardnosed, frontline cops.

    And for you economic illiterates, tax forgone is a subsidy, pure and simple.

    Overall, I read this as Jackson’s revenge for Bryson v Three Foot Six, with a bonus for WB.

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  203. Kimble (4,392 comments) says:

    “And for you economic illiterates, tax forgone is a subsidy, pure and simple.”

    Just like a cut in taxes is the same as an increase in government spending?

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  204. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    “Overall, I read this as Jackson’s revenge for Bryson v Three Foot Six, with a bonus for WB.”

    Luc, you need to find a new book. The one you have is both worn out and a proven fallacy.

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  205. badmac (139 comments) says:

    I’ll try and keep it simple so some of the less able to comprehend have a chance to follow.

    Get out your calculator (or if you went to a real school do it in your head).

    Type in 600,000,0000 divide it by 0.75 for the exchange rate.

    Take the result and give it to Hollywood,eastern Europe or Ireland.
    How much money did nz get?

    Thank you unions.

    Do the same maths film hobbit here.
    Divide 600,000,000 by 0.75 then multiply the result by 0.85.
    Put that in your bank how does that feel.

    Thank you John Key.

    Note: I do realize not all or even most of the budget will be spent here. I was just keeping it simple.

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  206. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    Oh piss off Luc Hands-on. You lefties should just shut up about this one, it’s entirely your fault. The left, in the form of the unions, tried to ruin the hobbit production, John Key saved it. End of story. No amount of whining about the tax changes the fact that it’s bringing half a billion bucks and priceless tourist publicity to NZ. If you don’t like the tax concessions, remember it was you lot that forced them so high. And as many people with a better grasp of very basic maths than you have pointed out, whatever the tax take is from this production, the alternative was the hobbit goes overseas and our tax take was zero. Are you seriously so thick as to not be able to grasp that, or are you just trolling?

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  207. Viking2 (11,215 comments) says:

    Now the PR, spin and down right bullshit begins form the haters and wreckers of the union movement.

    Mind you it emphasizes the change in culture and reality between working people and their former controllers in the union movement.
    For the first time I can recall those perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate their control upon the relationship between a busienss and their partners in the workforce have been sent running away(albeit until the next time), by the very people they claim to represent.
    Such a public display of the distaste for unions and their tactics has never ever been in this country and I’d suggest that it will spread to many others.

    Death threats fly over Hobbit
    By John Drinnan and Elizabeth Binning
    5:30 AM Friday Oct 29, 2010

    Actresses and unionists have received threats, including some against their lives, during the heated row over The Hobbit movie.

    While not condoning these threats I have a long enough memory of this being dished out here in NZ by the union movement towards many employers and worse members of employers families.

    Mr Whipp complains;
    Mr Whipp, the Australian-based director of the Media, Entertainment & Artists’ Alliance who has been in New Zealand during the row, said he and Ms Walsh had both received death threat.

    Now I doubt Mr Whipp is any sort of shrinking violet in his home town of Redfern Sydney. Indeed a tough part of town so sympathy will not be forthcoming here. He is just totally pissed that Kiwi’s recognized him for the carpet bagger that he really is and sent him home with a bloody nose.

    Mr Whipp said he was “very surprised” by the intensity of the reaction in the past few weeks.

    “I have never seen that before in all my years. Myself and staff have received threats and we have hired a security guard at our office. I have no idea if they [are from] people in the industry.”

    Nothing like passionate Kiwi’s. We might not always win the cricket or even the rugby but we won this one, so go home Mr Whipp and stay away. Kiwi’s don’t need you thanks very much.

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