Is it still a holiday if you do a deal on it?

November 12th, 2010 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

A National minister used her taxpayer-funded travel perk for a trip to China with her husband where he did a business deal that later turned sour.

Ethnic Affairs Minister Pansy Wong has been under fire since it was revealed she signed herself “Minister of NZ Govt”, and her address as “Parliament Buildings, Wellington NZ”, when she witnessed a contract between Pacific Hovercraft NZ and China-based Lianyungang Supreme Hovercraft during her trip to China in January last year.

A spokesman for Prime Minister John Key confirmed last night that his office was looking into the use of Mrs Wong’s travel subsidy.

Parliament’s rules expressly forbid MPs from using their private travel perk to pursue their own or their spouse’s private business interests.

But Mrs Wong’s office insisted last night that the purpose of the trip to China was a holiday. …

There was no issue with either of them using the perk as they were on holiday, she said. While business documents were signed during the trip, “that wasn’t the aim of their holiday”.

I think the Minister may be on shaky ground here. The aim of a trip is subjective. Whether or not business was done on a trip is objective, and it seems clear there was.

Now one can argue about whether or not one business deal as part of a trip that is mainly holiday, turns it into a business trip. What if the business only took up 5% of the holiday? Or 10%?

But in reality I think that doing any business on a trip (unless utterly trivial such as signing some documents faxed to your hotel) will render the trip ineligible for use of the travel perk.

I don’t know the precise details on this issue, but my gut reaction is that the cost of the travel should be repaid if business was done on the trip. The intent is not what counts – it is what happened on the trip.

UPDATE: The above was written at 9 am and set to appear at 1 pm. The media are now reporting she has been stood down.

Tags: MPs expenses, Pansy Wong

This entry was posted on Friday, November 12th, 2010 at 1:00 pm and is filed under NZ Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

53 Responses to “Is it still a holiday if you do a deal on it?”

toad (3,570) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:05 pm
Pretty difficult to explain it away as a holiday, given her husband told the NZ Herald:

“She had nothing to do with it. The only reason she was there was because I had to spend so much time there… In hindsight, she shouldn’t have been a witness. But hindsight is a [wonderful] thing.”
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burt (5,962) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:07 pm
I think we need some retrospective validations because others were doing it too and the law is confusing.

toad, you normally support parliament acting to protect parliament because they know the intent of the law better than anyone – what about this time ?

Do you think we should protect an MP’s job as a higher priority than enforce the law or is that only a good idea for the red team ?
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Sam (488) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
All the more reason to get rid of the perk completely – that way all of these ‘grey’ areas just don’t exist – they can just spend their own salaries how they see fit.
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Inventory2 (8,894) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Presume that you pre-loaded this post DPF, given the announcement an hour ago that Pansy Wong is “stepping down” as a Minister. It’s not often that I can say that I scooped the Lord of the Blog!
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PaulL (5,235) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:10 pm
Big goal here from Labour. Well done!! About time they started being marginally effective.
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3-coil (1,149) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:12 pm
So if I do 5 mins of business while on my next “holiday” overseas, will the IRD be happy if I claim all my costs back as business expenses???
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burt (5,962) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:14 pm
This is not a big goal for Labour at all – once again they have been shown how it should be done. So I guess you could say it is an own goal….
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Manolo (10,202) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Wong has to go: we have enough troughers already.

They come in all colours, regardless of political affiliation. From the rapacious and profligate reds, to the middle-age-crisis yellow, to the thick and greedy blue MPs.
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Bevan (3,952) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
This is not a big goal for Labour at all – once again they have been shown how it should be done. So I guess you could say it is an own goal….

Agreed, nothing for Labour at all. They did not uncover the incorrect use of the travel perk – only that she signed her name as a Minister of the Government. Any claims to this being a Labour scalp would be completely dishonest.

Again John Key is showing himself to be a very capable leader – one that is willing to hold his own to account. What a welcome change to the way Clark ran her nine years in power.
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Bevan (3,952) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:23 pm
Wong has to go: we have enough troughers already.

But you would say that about most MP’s – broken record comes to mind.
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PaulL (5,235) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:25 pm
Yeah, Key helped them out. But Labour started the digging, and all anyone will remember is that Labour asked some questions, and Wong got stood down. That’s politics. Most dirt campaigns look like this, and I reckon that Wong has been caught fair and square here.

Key will come out looking decisive, but Labour will get points for causing it. And good on them – the thing that keeps a government (even a National govt) honest is fear that they’ll get caught out. In 2-3 terms time, that will have turned into paranoia and hiding/cover ups, but at this stage in a government, it’s healthy.
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Johnboy (11,276) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Thank God she has gone.
We won’t have to try and decipher what the hell she is talking about during question time anymore.
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:40 pm
Wong needs to resign from the house immediately, our parliamentarians cannot keep screwing the tax payer and keep their job.

Wong has effectively stolen from her employers (us) that is a sackable offence.
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Manolo (10,202) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:41 pm
Good riddance!
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mickysavage (785) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:43 pm
How is that apology to Pete Hodgson coming along DPF?

[DPF: Pete missed the big issue. He was focused on how she described herself as a witness. He was lucky the media did his job for him and asked the right questions]
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davidp (2,786) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:47 pm
Sam>All the more reason to get rid of the perk completely – that way all of these ‘grey’ areas just don’t exist – they can just spend their own salaries how they see fit.

I’m with Sam on this one. I find it strange that MPs want to hang on to this perk even tho it causes them so much bad publicity, as troughers generally, and as criminal troughers with a sense of entitlement about a mile wide like Chris Carter and Wong.

Wong deserves to go. She knew that travel perks have come under a huge amount of media scrutiny and still decided to break the rules. I don’t want anyone that stupid running the country.
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TripeWryter (715) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 1:48 pm
So, to be fair, Peter Hodgson might not have been so wide of the mark after all.

It’s a pity it was Mrs Wong. I thought she was rather nice and harmless.

Her ability to completely not answer a question in Parliament was wondrous.
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david (2,322) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:06 pm
No excuses and she has copped a guilty plea but remember this trip was in 2008, waaaay before the UK fiasco triggered the publicity and feeding frenzy over the “perk” and expenses.

Presumably Pistol Pete is happy for prior records to be shown the light of day also?

Hands up those who haven’t done some business while on holiday.

For that matter hands up those who have had holidays while “on business” – quite common particularly when conferences are involved (just ask you local pharmacist when he last had to pay from his own pocket to play golf in Canada, or Fiji, or Singapore, or Australia, or …..
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orewa1 (353) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Get rid of the perk! It causes too much resentment, is too far removed from anything that is “normal” in the private sector, regularly brings politiciansd into disrepute, and has no rationale other than greed. Politicians should be remunerated to a similar level as the private sector but NOT above, and certainly not with uncapped perks that endure decades after they left office.
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:07 pm
Wong can wuck oww, wilwy wuck wiewing wolitician
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bearhunter (859) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
BB: “…Wong needs to resign from the house immediately, our parliamentarians cannot keep screwing the tax payer and keep their job.”

She’s resigned and Key says he would have sacked her had she not. Which is a bit out of step with what he was saying earlier in the week. From NZPA:

“A spokeswoman for Mrs Wong told NZPA the minister had sought cabinet advice and hadn’t done anything wrong.

Mr Key agreed.

“There’s nothing against the rules for a minister to witness a document and in terms of putting her profession… as Minister of the Crown, that’s her legal responsibility. She’s followed the law perfectly correctly and done nothing wrong,” Mr Key told Radio New Zealand.

Mr Hodgson had been “playing in the sewer” and mud-raking with his allegations, Mr Key said.”
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queenstfarmer (434) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:10 pm
The signing as Minister vs Member was just a silly beat-up by Pete Hodson, but misuse of the travel perk is a different matter and the Minister has done the right thing.
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tvb (3,357) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
It has gone further and she has resigned and the PM has accepted it. She could not give an assurance this was a one-off so she may resign as an MP. It is such a foolish mistake for a trifling sum of money, that is the part that makes think she is too stupid to be an MP. But she has resigned for misuse of a travel privilege NOT how she witnessed a document.
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david (2,322) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:13 pm
But I would have to ask why a Minister in a new Government with a major shitload of work and policy development to do would be taking off to China for a Holiday and why the PM would approve such a holiday.
That would have been 10-12 hour days and sleeves rolled up I would have thought, not time to heave a sigh about how tough winning an election is and buggering off to the Koru Lounge.

But then I am not and never have been an MP and cannot do anything but idly speculate about apparent disparities in Ministerial workloads.
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dime (6,435) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:16 pm
Will Wongs ethnicity keep her in parliment?
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:21 pm
“It ith beyond my wiwdest dweamth that a baby guwl buwn in Shanghai, Gina, gwew up in a Hong Kong apawtment whewe eight wamilieth thawed a wingle kitchen and bathwoom to be New Thealand’th fiwst Wist M.P., fiwst conthtituent M.P. of Botany and wirtht Cabinet Minithtew of Ginese and Athian ethnithity,” says Pansy Wong.

“That dweam is not mine awone and it comes with ethpectation, wethponsibility and hope. I have twied evewy thingle day to keep that dweam alive and nothing thhould happen to dathh that dweam.

“That dweam can only be kept alive by wiving up to the high thtandard set by the Pwime Minithtew and mythell. Therefore I have given my wesignation as a Cabinet Minithta to the Pwime Minitha.

“This action wollows quethtions about use of my pawliamentawy twawel entitlement to pay for my huthband to twavel within Gina at the end of 2008.

“Awthough the twip wath a holiday, my huthband did conduct thome business.

Wurther, I am not able at thith point to give the Pwime Minitha an athuwance that thith ith a one-off thituation.

“Ath a Memba of Pawliament it is my wethponsibility to enthu that the twavel entitlement is uthed within the rule and that doeth not appea to be the cathe on this occathion.

“Given that, the appwopriate and honouwable thing to do ith to woffer my rewignation to the Pwime Ministha. He hath been gwaciouth enough to athept it.

“I have athked the Thpeaka of the Houthe to have Pawliamentary Thervice weview the uthe of my entitlement.

“In the event that any of my or my huthband’th intanational twavel is wound to be outwide the ruleth, I will be making a wull wewund to Pawliamentawee Thervithe.

“I do not intend to make any wurther comment to the media pending the outcome ow the invethtigation.”
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bearhunter (859) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
@ Dirt Rat – Are you channelling an Igor by any chance?
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DJP6-25 (1,100) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:23 pm
The travel perk certainly has to go. It casts all MPs in a bad light.

Meanwhile, here is how it would have played with a Labour/Green MP. Insert name here; MP said the recent controversy over their travel expenses was just a beat up by the ‘new-right’. They were being picked on because of their membership of [insert victim group here] They were only guilty of being an effective MP. The next few days would see puff peices on some ‘celebrity’, or the usual ‘human interest’ drivel from their socialist pals in the MSM. They’d probably be able to ride out the storm. Especially if there was a Labour led govt.
Look forward to something like this in 2014-2017 under Cunliffe, ot Andrew Little.

cheers

David Prosser
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
Hows her ping pong skills ?
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david (2,322) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
tvb hits it at an angle though. She must have (as should all of them) carefully reviewed her travel when the manure did hit the propellor over expenses and looked for any possible items that may have been capable of being construed or misconstrued, sought clarification from the Speaker’s office in any areas of doubt and quietly reimbursed anything that might have in any small way made her vulnerable.

So she is either stupid as tvb suggested or genuinely believed that dropping off some contract variations while in town on holiday was so incidental as to not render the trip a “business trip”

Pansy is not stupid. A touch up herself and with strong self-belief perhaps (bordering on arrogant at times).
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PaulL (5,235) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:31 pm
If she was dropping off documents whilst there, they would have been witnessed in NZ when created. I’d say they had a business meeting over there, then signed the contract amendment, and Pansy witnessed it. That is why she’s now in trouble.

I still question why anyone would be in a hovercraft business though.
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:34 pm
Big Brother @ 1:40

Im Typing up Wawwars spin right now

Labour have had two terms in power totalling 18 years to get rid of this troughing rort.
They didnt

Its their fault
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Lazybum (259) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
2 Wongs don’t make a right.
She is a thieving chonk using tax payer money for her husbands business.
Go to court like Mclay as it is the same thing. In Stuff.co.nz she has all but admitted this is not a 1 off.
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KiwiGreg (2,858) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Let’s take the opportunity of her resignation to disestablish the Ministry of Womens Affairs.
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malcolm (2,000) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:45 pm
Wong gone.
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:46 pm
Notice the way that this site (being basically a right wing one) deals with a minister of a right wing government who breaks the rules.

Nobody is defending her, nobody is accusing the opposition of muck raking, nobody is claiming that the MP is being criticised because of her sexual orientation, nearly everybody wants her sacked.

Compare that with the Standard or Frogblog had it been a Labour or Green MP who was caught effectively stealing from the tax payer, they would be defending her to the bitter end.
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Big Bruv

How did ACT deal with greedy fat hypocrite trougher Hide ?
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BeaB (1,638) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:51 pm
I have defended her in the past as the silly juvenile posts here mocking her accent show just how much she has had to put up with but this was stupid beyond belief. OK for her to go but not for us to pay for her hubby’s business trip. Remember naughty John Kirk doing the same thing years ago? So it’s hardly a new issue but much more in the spotlight now.
I’d love to see some of the expenses under the Labour Govt but I guess we never will. Thankfully we have a PM now who doesn’t cover up and expects his ministers to act properly.
No more Andertons, Jones, Carters, Clarks (now she really did have lavish overseas holidays on the public dollar) – living high on the hog at our expense. John Key earned his luxuries and doesn’t see public service as the means to enjoy the high life.
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Rat4justice

They tried to sack the little prick….

It is a bit harder when he is the leader.
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PaulL (5,235) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Correct – and relate that to Maggie’s tirades yesterday.
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Pete George (17,897) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:53 pm
You’re so wrong bb – look:

Kris K says: Are there actually any/many right-wingers left at Farrar’s troll farm? I haven’t even been bothered to poke my nose in there for the last three days.

CR is proving to be a useful filter.
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
Bruvbaiter

If he had Honna like Mrs Wong, he would have wumped
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:54 pm
KiwiGreg @ 2.44pm had made the comment of the day.

Well done that man.
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dime (6,435) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 2:56 pm
bruv4justice? thats got a certain panache to it.

the left are never wrong bruv. they stand by any criminal in their party.
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Dirty Rat (504) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
The Left are in charge of the All Blacks ?
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Zapper (615) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Dirty Rat

You are not funny. You are borderline retarded
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mickysavage (785) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 4:12 pm
[DPF: Pete missed the big issue. He was focused on how she described herself as a witness. He was lucky the media did his job for him and asked the right questions]

Actually the initial issue raised by Hodgson smoked out Wong’s husband and caused him to say yesterday

“She had nothing to do with it. The only reason she was there was because I had to spend so much time there… In hindsight, she shouldn’t have been a witness. But hindsight is a [wonderful] thing.”

So it looks like Mr Wong’s response provided the necessary evidence. His description of the trip makes it look well and truely like a business trip, something that is not allowed under the rules.
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 4:18 pm
micky

What do you think Key should do about Wong?

1. Sack her?
2. Change the law to make her illegal deeds legal?
3. Try to spin this by saying that Wong was only guilty of trying to help people?
4. Refuse to comment about it other than to say “it is time to move on”?
5. Have somebody purchase the documents and burn them?
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burt (5,962) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
big bruv

Add to that;

6. Set up an inquiry with extremely narrow terms to find no wrong doing then claim in parliament that the inquiry exonerates her.
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big bruv (11,253) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Well done burt, I forgot about that one…

How about this as well….

7. Visit the speakers office, tell her/him what you want his/her ruling to be and them hide behind the decision of the speaker by saying “ultimately it is for the speaker to decide”
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burt (5,962) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 9:14 pm
You’re on fire big bruv

But wait, there is more….

8. Take the honorable member on her word then months later say a privileges committee ruling that she lied is just their opinion and there isn’t a conviction so nobody needs to resign.
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IHStewart (388) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Pete is a fucking idiot. He totally missed the point and was worried about signature not costs. It is good that one of the weakest minister’s in our last Government is leaving as an MP. He has largely been throwing shit and to me anyway looks like an authorised version of Carter. Pete an idea let’s put your costs up to the speaker to investigate. Let’s give them to police. Pete got an accidental goal today and it will turn out to be an own goal for Labour.
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PaulL (5,235) Says:
November 12th, 2010 at 10:32 pm
Actually, IHStewart provides a pointer to something here. I considered Wong to be one of National’s weaker ministers. I presume Key was happy to be rid of her, and able to replace her with someone stronger.
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