Front Bench still all Clark era Ministers

February 11th, 2011 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

I’ve just looked at the seating plan for the House, and the rejuvenation appears to have been somewhat of an illusion.

Phil Goff said that Grant Robertson had been promoted to the front bench, but in reality he is not. The front bench is traditionally the nine seats that are front row opposite their counterparts. Grant, who is ranked no 12 only, is on the cross-benches in between the Progressives and the Greens.

The nine front benchers for Labour are still all 100% former Ministers from the Clark Government. On average they entered Parliament 17 years ago. Three entered in the 1980s, four in the 1990s and only two after 1999.

Until that changes, they will struggle to be seen as a forward looking alternative.

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122 Responses to “Front Bench still all Clark era Ministers”

  1. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    i agree..it was a very lukewarm rejuvenation…

    i can only hope the policy-rejuvenation…which after all is what will really matter…

    ..is a bit hotter…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  2. thomasbeagle (77 comments) says:

    So, assuming that:

    a) Goff is finished as leader if he doesn’t win this election:
    b) His party believes it’s too late to change leader before the election.

    What did he have to lose from a complete, damn the torpedos and special interests, revamp? The answer is: nothing.

    Therefore we have to assume that Goff has got the front bench that he thinks is best qualified to lead Labour into the election and the the country after it. Which is just depressing.

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  3. Inventory2 (10,407 comments) says:

    Progressives?

    No; it’s Progressive (singular). There is only one Jim Anderton, PTL

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  4. MIKMS (167 comments) says:

    @inventory2
    Progressive…to retirement! *bad pun*

    I was wondering about the empty Labour seat at the back?

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  5. dime (10,095 comments) says:

    so Labours plan is to stay the same, wait for kiwis to get sick of natioanal and the have a glorious return.. with all the same scumbags running the show.

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  6. pdm (844 comments) says:

    Yesterdays people.

    Goff is obviously scared of the repercussions of cleaning them out.

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  7. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    Nobody represents the Clark era better than Annette King, watching her in the house over the last three days it struck me just how old and how much like an old Grandmother she looks.

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  8. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    That’s a hell of a lot of experience sitting there. How does it compare to Nationals front bench in terms of average time spent in parliament ?

    [None of National’s entered in the 80s, six entered in the 90s, and three in the 00s]

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  9. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Experienced at what BwaV?

    Far too much last century. Goff doesn’t seem to have the necessary drive nor support to make much of a difference with a defeated and defunct party lineup. That’s a bit sad, for Labour and for NZ politics.

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  10. davidp (3,587 comments) says:

    BWAV>That’s a hell of a lot of experience sitting there.

    You’re recycling a Mubarak argument that longevity in government is a good thing?

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  11. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..Progressives?

    No; it’s Progressive (singular)…”

    and off course..the opposite..you lot….

    …are the regressives….

    ..eh..?

    singular:..regressive…as in ‘he’s a …….”

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  12. s.russell (1,646 comments) says:

    Labour continues to regress – I think their brains have reached the 70s.

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  13. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Political senility?

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  14. smttc (761 comments) says:

    Agree Big Bruv. And that silly bloody smirk she always has on her dial.

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  15. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    BWAV

    If you are talking about career troughers and those who have never had a real job in their life then the Labour front bench takes some beating.

    Time in parliament is no indicator of ability, the member for Ikaroa-Rāwhiti and the member for Wigram being two examples of why time served is no indicator of ability.

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  16. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Experience at not wanting to chuck the baby out with the bathwater.

    On average they entered Parliament 17 years ago. Three entered in the 1980s, four in the 1990s and only two after 1999.

    So how do the numbers stack up on the National front bench ?

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  17. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    If you are talking about career troughers and those who have never had a real job in their life then the Labour front bench takes some beating.

    2 words : BILL ENGLISH

    How is it, in any sane world, that he is in the position to (mis)manage the countries books, and have you checked out Brownlee’s ‘real life’ qualifications lately ?

    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/minister/biography/gerry-brownlee

    Hardly qualifed for much more than a woodwork teacher, is he ? I’m always distrustful of someone who advocates strongly for sport, but is a bubblebutt.

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  18. Put it away (2,880 comments) says:

    So far it’s seemed that Goff’s entire masterplan for winning the election is to copy John Key’s hair. This doesn’t do much to change that impression

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  19. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    BWAV

    And two words for you; Michael Cullen, how is it that a History teacher got the chance to stuff up the best economic conditions in living memory and led NZ into recession before any other nation on earth.

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  20. Viking2 (11,557 comments) says:

    and Blenglish didn’t know that we had a double dip and still isn’t sure.

    Well all the business people that I know and speak to knew. Perhaps its time he left his desk and got some sunlight on his face whilst door knocking and talking to the real business people in the industrial areas of the country.

    They really are out of touch and now he is telling the manufacturers and exporters its their role to create the jobs that he and Key have promised.
    The just have’nt a single bloody clue.
    Closing down the public service is a minor part of what to do.
    Business is the only organisation the generates money, wealth and jobs.
    Its really is so simple. No mystery.
    But apart from very selected small programs for favourite industries they have ignored the wider business concerns and have introduced nothing new to get people working.
    Remove the barriers to business and get everyone to work to get the transformation.
    and hurry up for high export returns have a life of 2-3 years. We are in year two now.

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  21. malcolm (1,952 comments) says:

    The Labour front bench might be old and tired, but John Key has shown that even a fresh and young front bench is no protection against a vision-less and direction-less government.

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  22. Murray (8,847 comments) says:

    Zombie Labour.

    Good campaign slogan.

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  23. Positan (393 comments) says:

    “That’s a hell of a lot of experience sitting there … ”

    Pardon me, but that’s the sort of inanity that non-thinking supporters of Labour seem to find necessary to sustain their misplaced loyalty to the party. Experience at what, I must ask? Troughing? Seat-warming? Inept administration? Do tell me.

    The skills required to run a country differ only in scale to those needed to run a business. Primarily, there’s the ability to see the big picture and understand the differences between what’s desired and how it can be realistically achieved. There’s the ability to determine attainable objectives – and, most important, the ability to set realistic budgets and to work to their dictates. Labour MPs are almost completely lacking in such elementals.

    Virtually none of today’s Labour MPs has ANY business experience. (Even Anderton would only score a “maybe.”) Goff worked in all sorts of manual jobs during his university holidays, but he went virtually from university into parliament without acquiring any practical, hands-on knowledge of the marketplace. As for the rest of them, for the good of the country such “experience” as they might possess would’ve been far better employed at deriving alternative non-taxpayer funded lifestyles.

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  24. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    And two words for you; Michael Cullen, how is it that a History teacher got the chance to stuff up the best economic conditions in living memory and led NZ into recession before any other nation on earth.

    I for one, and many others, were better off under Clark and Cullen’s watch than Key and English’s so far, and theres nothing to suggest that opinion is likely to change in the near future.

    Correct me if i’m wrong, but wasn’t English praising Cullen for leaving the books in good order and NZ in the enviable position of better being able to weather recession than most other countries ?

    until that changes, they will struggle to be seen as a forward looking alternative

    But seriously, is English the forward looking alternative DPF is promoting ?

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  25. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    The skills required to run a country differ only in scale to those needed to run a business.

    I’m glad you didn’t say bank instead of business.

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  26. dime (10,095 comments) says:

    We all know Gerry is there for the chick vote.

    Id be happy for you to provide a comparison between national and labour cv’s.

    is there any labour mp who hasnt come from teaching or the unions?

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  27. Manolo (14,031 comments) says:

    But seriously, is English the forward looking alternative?

    Nobody can say that. English has proven to be a gray, indecisive, full-of-talk but void-of-action Finance minister.
    At the same level of incompetence or even worse than the socialist Dr Cullen.

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  28. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    i can only hope the policy-rejuvenation…is a bit hotter…

    OK so what do we have so far on that? Personally I find the details such as specific rates of taxes or tax cuts boring, it’s the general strategy and demographics behind those I find interesting, so on that, I see they’re running the following themes:

    This rich-poor gap theme [where “poverty” = a smaller house and only one TV but that’s beside the point]. (Lots of free help from the mega-moron media on this one, cause they really believe it too, like AGW. Idiots.) Policy set one.

    This MP rift is exposing their intent to make a real bid for the average Maori vote. I think they could easily win it back because the F&S isn’t seen as against the MP but against the Nats for being so heartless as not to go further. The only Maori who like it are those engaged in the treaty gravy train for just as one ends the next one begins. Oh how sad. Just have a look at what Annette Syke’s Rotorua law firm gets in annual legal aid as one small example. But that’s beside the point as well. The MP don’t care who they work with in power, they just want to be in power, and fair enough too. If the Greens adopted that tactic they might make some progress, but they’re more moronic than the media. I know. One can’t imagine how impossible that could be but apparently, they are. Policy set two.

    I haven’t seen their tactics for re-capturing the middle-class urban mum vote for that was one of Hulun’s keys. I can’t see their lineup is oriented toward social aspects for that group so therefore one presumes they’re going for the Green angle. I really really hope someone in this elections floats low-tax zones in return for international companies in the Green space to set up in depressed regions. Our FTA with China is a huge selling point overseas and there are lots of European companies who’d be interested I’m sure. I don’t care who does it, I hope someone does. That would be a good tactic for that group, anyway.

    At the same level of incompetence or even worse than the socialist Dr Cullen.

    That’s a tad harsh Manolo. He’s not a huge almost exclusive spender on his own interest groups so that’s a plus. But he’s been disappointing, that’s for sure. I had hoped for some dynamite thinking given his background and experience but no, nothing. A damp squib.

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  29. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    “I for one, and many others, were better off under Clark and Cullen’s watch than Key and English”

    Unless you have lost your job in the last two years, or, you earn no income then that statement is factually incorrect.

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  30. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    I for one, and many others, were better off under Clark and Cullen’s watch than Key and English’s so far, and theres nothing to suggest that opinion is likely to change in the near future.

    Well fucking d’oh Black, just precisely why do you think that is and was? Are you implying we were better off because of something Cullen and/or Hulun did and now we’re worse off because of something English has or hasn’t done?

    If so, fucking, fucking fucking fucking and fucking mega d’oh of the first degree times infinity plus one.

    If you are so ideologically hide-bound AND stupid that you haven’t worked out by now the true factors at play during the past twelve years, then crikey.

    On the other hand if you’re just saying it because you want to broadcast the propaganda in the hopes that one or two of the more stupid slack-jaw yokel brigade who are well known denizens of Kiwiblog will pick it up and run with it, then I’m very much afraid you’ve under-estimated the cleverness of our particular slack-jawed yokels on this blog. Not one of them I’ve ever seen, would be so stupid.

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  31. lastmanstanding (1,300 comments) says:

    I have always believed that MPs just like Company directors and CEO have a shelf life of about 6 years. After that if they havent achieved what they set out to do they never will and are stale and out of date.

    We need a constant refreshing in the House and the Board rooms of new people with fresh energy and new ideas willing to try a new approach.

    Instead what we get in the House and in Board room is the same old same old recycyling the same old failed policies.

    TIme for a Change ( Labour 1972 camapign slogan curtesy Bob Harvey)

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  32. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    If the election is to be fought and won on the economy, then i’d rather have Cunliffe balancing the books than English.

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  33. Positan (393 comments) says:

    re BWAV

    The skills required to run a country differ only in scale to those needed to run a business.

    “I’m glad you didn’t say bank instead of business.”

    … your profound point being exactly what …. ????

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  34. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    If the election is to be fought and won on the economy, then i’d rather have Cunliffe balancing the books than English.

    Why is that, Black?

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  35. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Is running the country according to Key’s real life employment skills as a banker or English’ skills as a farmer paying good dividends, Positan ?

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  36. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Cunliffe seems more of a forward looking alternative than the struggling English.

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  37. tvb (4,497 comments) says:

    They are a bunch of late middle aged people whose whole life is politics. Many of them married political activists. The Labour Party is their family. Without politics they are nothing, their life has no meaning, they could possibly die of grief. So they hang on. Policy wise they think money is still easy, borrowing and taxing is not too difficult and there is a bigger constituency for spending than the people who have to pay for it all. They are quite smart at the tactical cleverness of day to day politics. But they are losing the strategic battle. The Labour vote is declining, their potential partners are their political enemies and given their longevity in politics they have held just about every position of every major issue. So they are has-beens, they have wasted the last 3 years in opposition, they think the easy money is still there and the voters really do love them, they just had a mental breakdown but the Labour Party will forgive the voters for getting it so wrong in 2008.

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  38. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Yeah and National’s front bench is a stale sprinkling of old 1990s neo-liberal crusties. From the “decent society” to the tripling of youth suicide rates from 1990 to 1996, these people are the cold black heart of the National caucus.

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  39. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Is running the country according to Key’s real life employment skills as a banker or English’ skills as a farmer paying good dividends, Positan ?

    Give it time, it takes more than one term to sort out Labour’s fuck ups.

    Fact: Labour increased core spending drastically during their 3 terms.
    Fact: During their last term the economy turned and continued to slide.
    Fact: Labour sycophants will still blame National for the down turn even though it started under Labour’s watch.

    The problem is Blackie, the repercussions of the downturn were not felt by the average joe cause Cullen didn’t give a flying fuck what happened to the economy so did not take the action required when the down turn started. Have you forgotten the phrase “We spent the lot”? How about his gleeful interviews where he joked about whoever had to take the reigns after the 08 election would have no money to spend?

    No? Open you other eye then.

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  40. Inventory2 (10,407 comments) says:

    Sheesh; the trolls are double-teaming you today DPF; you must have hit a raw nerve …

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  41. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    Cunliffe seems more of a forward looking alternative than the struggling English.

    I wouldn’t say English is struggling, Black. He’s not showing a lot of inspiration and innovation, but neither has Cunliffe issued as yet, any dynamic ideas whatsoever.

    If you think he has, then what are they?

    So better I think in these or any time, to have a conservative economist in charge, rather than a “progressive” one. I mean, look what Cullen did. The wanker didn’t squirrel any nuts whatsoever away during the good times, which arose through none of his own making, and not only that, the wanker spent OUR money on HIS vested interest groups, all throughout his execrable reign.

    Argue with that if you can, but I know you can’t. That’s what he did. Fact.

    So on balance therefore, English has to be better. He’s dealing, as I said albeit uninspiringly, with someone handed to him, not of his own making.

    Key is being somewhat disingenuous in conflating private and public debt and comparing us to the Europeans who actually have the opposite problem: massive public debt, smaller private. But nevertheless, the thing he hasn’t done is the very thing the lefties would scream loudest about: cutout interest free student loans and WFF from the middle-class and up. If he did that, I’d be happy, but he won’t. You tell me Black, you think Cunliffe would scream like a baby if that happened? Of course he would. And so Key and English continue their gutless lukewarm defence of OUR economic future. A curse on both their houses.

    So given Black that actually, neither side is willing to do the right thing, despite both knowing what it is, would you rather have at these times, a party with a track record of thrift or a party with a track record of spending, in power. Tell me, what path are YOU pursuing at the mo, in your own family? Exactly.

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  42. Gwilly (158 comments) says:

    Anyone that thinks Teachers and Unionists can run a country are completely demented, but that is in essence the Labour parliamentary team in a nutshell.

    It defies belief that anyone could vote for such an out of touch and inexperienced mob, who have never spent a day in their life running or heading up a business.

    The current National cabinet is without a doubt one of the most experienced and capable NZ has ever had. You would have to go back to 1984 before you could even contemplate making a comparison.

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  43. Positan (393 comments) says:

    Thank you Bevan – your reply to BWAV was far more articulate than anything I might have added.

    Frankly, I don’t think its worth the time trying to explain anything to such a deliberate no-hoper endorser of a repeatedly failed and inept ideology.

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  44. dime (10,095 comments) says:

    didnt cunliffe suggest partial sales of state assets last year?

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  45. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    I would assume parliament is decked out for the disabled, must have room for the zimmer frames, walking sticks and wheel chairs. Fuck doesn’t Goofy and his collection of fossils watch the box, these old coots are like the crocked regime in Egypt, way pass their shelf life. They are like dirty underwear, stinking and covered in skid marks. Liarbore and their corrupted politics belong in the history books along with the other socialist failures throughout the world.

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  46. Inventory2 (10,407 comments) says:

    @ Black:

    The cupboard is almost bare and that is the way Michael Cullen planned the 2008 Budget.

    He has delivered a Budget that offers a little of something for almost everyone but his biggest gift is to National – an election-year headache.

    An interesting analysis of Cullen’s last budget

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10511832

    Cullen knew that the tide had turned against Labour, and did everything that he could to saboutage the incoming Government.

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  47. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Yeah and National’s front bench is a stale sprinkling of old 1990s neo-liberal crusties. From the “decent society” to the tripling of youth suicide rates from 1990 to 1996, these people are the cold black heart of the National caucus.

    So what your saying is Nationals front bench is younger, and fresher…

    Way to oppose the point.

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  48. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Thank you Bevan – your reply to BWAV was far more articulate than anything I might have added.

    You call that articulate?????? :-P

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  49. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Cullen and Clark are history. Harking back to them, and whatever their short comings were, is futile and pointless.

    So on current track records, I’d rather not have Key in power and English running the books thanks. If the alternative is Goff and Cunliffe then so be it.

    In my family, at the mo’, we’re trying to spend money to make money.

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  50. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    didnt cunliffe suggest partial sales of state assets last year?

    You forget Dime, its different when they do it. Hell, I’m sure Labourites would clap and hurrup loudly no matter what Clark had proposed.

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  51. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Cullen and Clark are history. Harking back to them, and whatever their short comings were, is futile and pointless.

    Those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it.

    Of course you don’t want the NZ public remembering what Clark and Cullen did to the economy, or learning more about its impact – Labour would never get back in if they did!

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  52. gravedodger (1,568 comments) says:

    @ blackwitha vengance 11 52 you perhaps should make that RED not Black.

    Hotchin and his minions left the Hanover books in” good shape” , ie they havn’t had any serious problems with the law, however as far as the bank balance and the investors are concerned the well presented books don’t mean a pinch of Goat shit.

    Obviously, as the Cunliffe with a silent t cheerleader, the fact that Cullen not only cleaned all the accounts out as he was leaving the building, he also bought 19th century transport technology for around 3 times its market value and the socialist cabinet of the dying days of the Clarke administration signed it off much to the disbelief of the Toll board, you, bwav are as economically ignorant and politically unaware as to the achievable as 99% of the supporters of Labour in 2011.

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  53. gravedodger (1,568 comments) says:

    As to the post, the whole useless bunch are to a man, bloke, thingy or whatever, firmly locked in the mindset that 2008 was an unfortunate aberration of the electoral system and later this year the sheeple will see their stupid mistake and to a man, bloke,thingy or whatever they will just move back to “their” rightful side of the chamber and business as usual will resume.

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  54. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Trains are the future, not roads of national significance or cycleways.

    Whatever you would like Clark and Cullen to have done in their day would not have stopped bankers from tipping the global economy into recession with their rampant greed.

    Key and English’ solution of taxcuts and privatising state assets will and have done nothing to counter that.

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  55. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Trains are the future, not roads of national significance or cycleways.

    Trains are part of the transport infrastructure, and not even the main part.

    Whatever you would like Clark and Cullen to have done in their day would not have stopped bankers from tipping the global economy into recession with their rampant greed.

    The repercussions felt by the country – like the ones YOU are feeling now and solely blaming Key and English for, would be drastically reduced IF Clark and Cullen had used the boom years wisely, but they didn’t and YOU still blame the Nats for it!

    Your hypocrisy is unfuckenbelievable!

    Key and English can rightly be held to account for how they are handling the economy now, but the blame for getting us in the mess rests solely on Clark and Cullen’s shoulders.

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  56. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    Trains are the future

    Why is that? Because of the mythical AGW? OK, so why does that mean the govt has to own them?

    Whatever you would like Clark and Cullen to have done in their day would not have stopped bankers from tipping the global economy into recession with their rampant greed.

    Once again Black I call fucking d’oh on you. No-one is saying that Hulun and Cullen should have stopped the GFC. Why don’t you stop being disingenuous and address the real issue: they didn’t do what they should have done to prepare us for what was obvious, indeed they did the precise opposite, to sabotage the entire country, so their party could return to power quicker. Thanks Liarbore, and you, apparently, support that. Well aren’t you just the great big silly then.

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  57. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Trains are the future

    They are in some places, like Switzerland. But not here, population densities are too sparse in most places. Even buses are often more cost than they are worth. Multiple car ownership is too entrenched and convenient. We have to look more at transport methods that will serve us in the future.

    Most railway lines could work much better if they were converted to single truck lanes with some passing zones, used one way one day, then the opposite way on alternate days.

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  58. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Most railway lines could work much better if they were converted to single truck lanes with some passing zones,

    Hmmmmmmmm, interesting concept.

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  59. James Stephenson (2,223 comments) says:

    Trains are the future,

    …and as Lennie showed us this week, the trains of our future are Gravy trains…

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  60. RRM (10,001 comments) says:

    Pete George Says:

    in some places… But not here, population densities are too sparse in most places.

    ORLY?

    Picture Sandringham Rd, Great South, Great North, Tamaki Drive, Remuera Road, or any other inner part of Auckland roading network where traffic is at a standstill for an extended period every morning and every evening.

    Under these conditions, a bus carrying 50 people occupies the same amount of space on the road as cars carrying 2-3 people.

    Therefore I would suggest that conditions in Auckland already exist, where buses as a means of limiting traffic congestion are more efficient, by more than a power of ten, than any other known alternative means of getting people to work from more then walking distance away.

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  61. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    I said most places. And in those places where the population density could support mass transit economically most people simply aren’t interested. Hard to know how much is due to convenience and how much to do with snobbery. You can’t make people use public transport.

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  62. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    most people simply aren’t interested. Hard to know how much is due to convenience and how much to do with snobbery.

    Pete if you compare Wgtn vs Auckland usage I’m afraid there’s no evidence its snobbery. It’s convenience all the way. It doesn’t work in Akld until you get buses which don’t make one walk a km or so each way and take more than one bus and for most journeys in Akld that’s what it takes by comparison in Wgtn you hardly ever have that.

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  63. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Picture Sandringham Rd, Great South, Great North, Tamaki Drive, Remuera Road, or any other inner part of Auckland roading network where traffic is at a standstill for an extended period every morning and every evening.

    And here I thought we were talking about freight transport….

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  64. Ed Snack (1,925 comments) says:

    RRM, I used to live in near Dominion Rd/Sandringham Rd, and then, traffic moved a hell of a lot better before they put in the bus lanes and restricted cars etc to a single lane in both ways. I didn’t take buses, mainly because, to do so involved 2 buses with significant walks at both ends and approximately double the already long travel times.

    And Trains, useful if you have them but inflexible, very capital intensive, and damn hard to retro-fit into a city. Is there a commuter train system anywhere that survives without a huge subsidy ? And would people still use them if they paid the real costs directly rather than indirectly ?

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  65. david (2,561 comments) says:

    RRM, if you really knew those roads you would have experienced being stick in traffic consisting almost exclusively of buses. Bus jams are becoming a total blight on thye city and bus-only lanes have become nothing more than revenue generators for the Council as frustrated motorists seek to get themselves moving.

    Auckland’s traffic engineers need to be shot or worse given the ridiculous situation where busy lines of moving traffic are cut off by red lights only to sit there and watch extended periods of empty intersections because there is no-one going in the cross lanes. Even North Korea had worked out the solution to this one back in 1998 when I saw the lights turned off and intersections controlled by the hottest chicks imaginable in short skirts and …. ahem. (dime heaven) Well no-one had to wait at an intersection anyway was where I was getting to.

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  66. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Hey, get back on topic. We are supposed to be discussing the outmoded inefficient unpopular subsidy dependant Labour front bench, not outmoded inefficient unpopular subsidy dependant buses and trains.

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  67. david (2,561 comments) says:

    Apologies Pete, but you had to see those “street dancers” to believe

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  68. Pete George (23,681 comments) says:

    Maybe Labour need some “poll dancers”?

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  69. Inventory2 (10,407 comments) says:

    @ Pete; don’t even go there!

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  70. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Key and English can rightly be held to account for how they are handling the economy now

    That’s about it really. They’re doing a piss poor job so need to be replaced.

    but the blame for getting us in the mess rests solely on Clark and Cullen’s shoulders. They didn’t do what they should have done to prepare us for what was obvious, indeed they did the precise opposite,

    Blaming Labour for what they didn’t do instead of what they did ? oh boofuckinghoo. Exactly what was so obvious ?

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  71. david (2,561 comments) says:

    What, you don’t think that the Harmonious Harpies and sister act The Honorable Harridans need a backing group The Devious Dancers to complete their entry into the hit show “NZLP has no talent”

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  72. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Of course it was so obvious what was to happen that a banker with an inside line to global finance and a farmer with years of experience in finance and politics didn’t predict it, have measures to counter it or even make a single squawk as to warn the country.

    After 9 years in opposition the best they had to offer when assuming the treasury benches was taxcuts we couldn’t afford and selling off state assets ? And these are the people you want me to vote in again next time ?

    unfuckenbelievable is right.

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  73. double d (225 comments) says:

    Reid

    11.22

    Nailed it.

    well said.

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  74. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    That’s about it really. They’re doing a piss poor job so need to be replaced.

    But you want to replace them with the same team that fucked the country in the first place.

    Blaming Labour for what they didn’t do instead of what they did ? oh boofuckinghoo. Exactly what was so obvious ?

    WTF??????? Of course they need to be blamed! FFS if someone stands by and watches a building burn down instead of calling 111 – they should be held in just as much contempt as the person who started the fucken fire!

    What was obvious? Massive surpluses, rapid increases in the interest rate, unprecedented increase in the value of the NZ$, massive accumulation of private debt!! The could plainly see ALL of this, and couldnt work out what the repercussions could be – and you want those same blind idiots back controlling the finances?????????? You may want the country to go down the toilet, but the rest of us don’t!

    Of course it was so obvious what was to happen that a banker with an inside line to global finance and a farmer with years of experience in finance and politics didn’t predict it, have measures to counter it or even make a single squawk as to warn the country.

    http://www.prosper.org.au/2009/09/14/economists-who-dominated-the-gfc-predicitons/

    There were enough predictions on what was coming. Labour ignored all of it. Fact is, they were lucky enough to be in power during some massive boom years for the global economy (which frankly under the surface were clearly unsustainable) and all they managed to be able to do was come up with new ways to bride voters to stay in power.

    After 9 years in opposition the best they had to offer when assuming the treasury benches was taxcuts we couldn’t afford and selling off state assets ?

    But then I bet you supported Cullen when he proposed tax cuts didn’t you! And I bet you applauded loudly when Cunliffe proposed partial asset sales as well – face it, your a one eye two faced hypocrite.

    And these are the people you want me to vote in again next time ?

    Quit even suggesting you would in the first place. Your a typical Labour flunky, completely blind to their past fuckups.

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  75. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    Classic….Labour toadies pissing and moaning about the right blaming Labour for the shit we find ourselves in.

    If I remember correctly Klark was still blaming the Nat’s for her failures well into her second disastrous term as PM.

    But then….I suppose that it is always different when the left do it.

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  76. wreck1080 (3,956 comments) says:

    I’m pretty worried Goff will get back in.

    Not only do we get back 39% tax rate, they are bringing in an even higher rate for earnings over 100k.

    Labour plan to redistribute even more of my hard earn’t income (i’m the ant) than the last labour government.

    I came very close to moving to Australia during the Clark years. I really really hope Goff does not win. Initially, I thought Goff would be a better for the country than Clark ever was, but he has been lurching more to the left the longer he is in opposition.

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  77. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    wouldn’t let me delete..

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  78. Dazzaman (1,144 comments) says:

    Haha Grant Robertson, DPF’s great white blouse hope can’t crack Labours real front bench…..well, if Farrar is to be believed, it really does compound Goff’s cluelessness.

    Looking further back in the seating arrangement there doesn’t seem to be a great deal more for Goff to work with….Jacinda Ardern has always impressed me when she has spoken, not a bad looking bird too…..don’t underestimate the power of good looks, which is another reason why I scoff at DPF’s love affair (nyuck, nyuck) with Robertson. He is a pasty, powder puff of a poof.

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  79. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    wouldn’t let me delete..

    Realize you were about to make an arse out of yourself again?

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  80. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    Black with a Vengeance … mmmm, wonder who this?
    I’m a rail fan but would only support a few lines. The company I work for use rail big time and we, or should I say motorists/roads, would be screwed without rail.
    Cullen/Clark and whoever else supported the buy back of the railways at the price they paid should be jailed for life, if not longer. I would suggest the Toll people still thank labour each night in their prayers before going to bed at night, in between the giggles of course.

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  81. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..re you implying we were better off because of something Cullen and/or Hulun did and now we’re worse off because of something English has or hasn’t done?..”

    (sigh..!..)..where to start…?

    let’s just hang with how well off people are…

    ..well..the rich are fine…they got the fruits of key’s wealth transfer to the elites..

    tax cuts for the rich…paid for by screwing the poorest….and borrowing $300 million per wk…

    ..but almost everyone else is worse off…

    and those doing it the hardest…are doing it much harder….

    ..everything has gone up in price…

    (increase in number of children admitted to hospital for diseases of poverty…2,500 more…since key came in..

    does that make you feel proud of the ‘work’ of your government..?..reid..?

    ..of your country…?..(you’d never experience any family/personal tragedies that wd see you in a position like those ‘losers’…eh reid..?..)

    …you just want more wealth transfer…..and more screwing of those poor..eh..?

    licking yr lips/rubbing yr hands at the upcoming pogrom…eh…?

    so..these are the realities of now….and the future…and key is just promising worse…

    and you know the hilarious thing about all this….?

    is that you morons think that the maori party members will let their leadership go with national again..

    …you really have all got yr heads in the sand/are in total fucken denial…

    ..eh…?

    and let’s just touch on those borrowings…

    cullen used the good times to pay down govt debt…..he handed a govt in surplus to key/national…

    (also keep in mind that all that time cullen was clearing our debt…yr lot moaned/wailed for tax cuts..calling him mean/stingy…

    ..remember..?

    ..or has the selective editing of the past you labour under taken care of that uncomfortable fact..?

    ..and how much worse off wd we be now..had he not done that…?

    key national have reversed that…and are borrowing hand over fist …to fund their tax cuts..

    ..and plan to sell assets…

    do you need more…?

    ..i am always amazed by how much you rightwingers just have total bullshit/historical innaccuracies…

    …as the foundation-stones/pillars of yr belief-systems…

    ..is it willfull deceit..?

    or are you all just as dumb as fucken doorknobs…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  82. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    tax cuts for the rich…paid for by screwing the poorest

    1/ tax cuts are not a benefit payment like you get philu .. it means a person working keeps more of their own money. Now I know that is a foreign concept to you but it’s true
    2/ by screwing the poorest. ummmmm, the poorest don’t pay taxes, they receive tax “revenue” paid by rich pricks and companies/corporations, all of whom you despise

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  83. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    Phool

    Instead of pissing and moaning about being poor…..

    Get a fucking job!, you have no right to more of our money.

    BTW…did you apply for that bin cleaners job?

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  84. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    ho-hum..!..jaba..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  85. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    eh
    what’s the problem philu .. is your IQ at north of 140 no match for mine at south of 150 .. eh eh eh eh. Is the library still open eh eh eh bong bong bong. Hope the Rebels situation isn’t going to cause an increase in drug prices eh eh eh .. and no gst on drugs eh eh eh .. now there’s a thought, make drugs legal and tax it so you could actually make a contribution at last eh eh eh??

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  86. MT_Tinman (3,252 comments) says:

    jaba (974) Says:
    February 11th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
    “tax cuts for the rich…paid for by screwing the poorest”

    Jaba, I assume you were quoting phool there. ;-)

    Still, seems perfectly fair to me.

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  87. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    There were enough predictions on what was coming. Labour ignored all of it.

    Imagine for a sec how much deeper in the shit we would have been if National had been in power during ‘the boom years’ and be thankful.

    Funny, but I don’t see Key or English’ name on economists who predicted the GFC and I don’t remember hearing a squeak out of them or any of you clowns at the time on the impending financial meltdown and what Labour should have been doing.

    I bet you supported Cullen when he proposed tax cuts didn’t you! And I bet you applauded loudly when Cunliffe proposed partial asset sales as well – face it, your a one eye two faced hypocrite.

    Your a typical Labour flunky, completely blind to their past fuckups.

    Wrong , wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

    What I am, is a current government critic who can plainly see that Key and English are a clueless couple of chumps who have no idea on how to manage an economy in decline or plan for an economic recovery so need to be chucked out quick smart before they do even more damage.

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  88. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    yawn..!..

    eh jaba…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  89. Todd (111 comments) says:

    Yum! Brain of Jaba the woke and some tasty new treats. Me like new brains, not old brains all fermented and poisonous! Red brains a bit better tasting than blue pussy brains. But not much better. Me not care about toupee’s, me care about the brains under them. Bring on the double D zombie pole dancers! With some brains!

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  90. Todd (111 comments) says:

    Retch retch retch! Something wrong with that brain to. Is there no good blue brains? My kingdom for a brain. Any good brain will do. How many brains in the jar o? 579 monkey brains in turps. Yuck! Must be fresh not old… Or I be keeping my kingdom all to myself. Lame donkey sure ain’t getting it.

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  91. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    (increase in number of children admitted to hospital for diseases of poverty…2,500 more…since key came in..

    What’s a “disease of poverty” phil, and how does it differ from the very same disease that rich people also get?

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  92. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    BWAV

    “What I am, is a current government critic who can plainly see that Key and English are a clueless couple of chumps who have no idea on how to manage an economy in decline or plan for an economic recovery so need to be chucked out quick smart before they do even more damage.”

    OK…so the answer is to borrow another 5 billion for the promises that Goof has made?

    You have zero credibility Bwav, about as much credibility as Labour and Goff.

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  93. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    ..well..the rich are fine…they got the fruits of key’s wealth transfer to the elites..

    Why we certainly are phil. How was your tax-cut BTW? Of course you wouldn’t have got the tens of thousands that most of us got because you choose apparently not to do anything that generates enough interest in you that people are hammering down the door just begging to pay you even more squillions because you’re so fabulous. It’s fucking great.

    But AFAIK phil, you got one too, didn’t you? Tell us how much it was. Go on. (Snigger)

    ..i am always amazed by how much you rightwingers just have total bullshit/historical innaccuracies…

    …as the foundation-stones/pillars of yr belief-systems…

    It occurs to me phil that if you were right and I was wrong, then evidence suggests I’d be you and you’d be me. Just saying, you might want to look around you as you read this and do a reality check on what works and what’s not quite so good at the mo…

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  94. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    reid

    It might have been enough for a couple of new pots and pans

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  95. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    Imagine for a sec how much deeper in the shit we would have been if National had been in power during ‘the boom years’ and be thankful.

    Yes Black we would have been completely debt free, our commercial sector and export sector would have been much more globally competitive due to the outward business-friendly thinking combined with realistic and actual experience of real-world commercial operation experience which Liarbore didn’t and never actually has ever had. Liarbore don’t get that management is actually a career and there’s a fucking good reason why successful CEOs aren’t always the nicest soul in the room. They’ve always mistaken that necessary attitude for some sort of ruthless fantasy where money is evil and corrupts absolutely. Which is childish nonsense yet exists as we speak, in the dark soul of the New Zealand Liarbore Party.

    It might have been enough for a couple of new pots and pans

    I’m surprised he hasn’t responded yet BB. I hope he’s not embarrassed about it. Nothing to be ashamed of phil, we could probably look it up on the DSW website anyway, so don’t worry about it.

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  96. reid (16,632 comments) says:

    What I am, is a current government critic who can plainly see that Key and English are a clueless couple of chumps who have no idea on how to manage an economy in decline or plan for an economic recovery so need to be chucked out quick smart before they do even more damage.

    Well, you’re a bit of a dick then aren’t you Black. Cause what do you think would happen. That’s right. We’d get Silent-T. Who wants a silent-t for a Minister of Finance? You? You seriously want Silent-T as our Minister of Finance?

    Why?

    Specifically, policy by policy. You said it, back it up. You’re clearly intelligent well-informed, don’t fuck the thread around by prevaricating. So tell us exactly what Cunliffe would do, were he installed later on this year. Otherwise drop the angle cause its boring propaganda. Yes we know it works for your “masses.” My “masses” however just find it incredibly annoying, indeed insulting.

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  97. Inventory2 (10,407 comments) says:

    @ Phil; you have CHOSEN to be “poor”. Any time you like you could go and get a job, and EARN a living instead of expecting those of us who DO work to support your choices. Any time you like you could choose to go drug-free and use the money you spend on dope for better purposes. You are reaping what you have sown, so don’t blame the government for your predicament.

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  98. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..What’s a “disease of poverty” phil, and how does it differ from the very same disease that rich people also get?..”

    it isn’t my description..oh sneering reid…

    ..it is a medical definition…preventable diseases…caused by overcrowding/poverty/poor nutrition etc. etc..

    (are you pretending this re-emergence of these poverty/third world diseases is unconnected to state support cuts..etc…?..

    ..draconian policies against the poorest/weakest/sickest…for the benefit of heartless/greedy scumbags..

    ..to whom a tax cut is far more important…

    and ‘rich people diseases’ are the cancers etc..from their gross over-consumption of animal fat/flesh/blood…

    they kill themselves…the poor are being killed by others…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  99. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    and then reading yr subsequent gloating/sneering comments…

    ..really reflects worse on you than me…

    ..eh..?

    ..and shows you up as being a really nasty piece of crap…

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  100. starboard (2,549 comments) says:

    the poor are being killed by others…

    you wouldnt know ‘poor’ if it jumped up and bit your drug riddled arse..been to Laos phool…been to Dhaka…now thats poverty. You live the high life here courtesy of others. Prick.

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  101. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..so don’t blame the government for your predicament…”

    unlike you…it’s not all about me…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  102. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    ah..!..star-bored trots out the ‘they aren’t eating raw sewerage..so how can they be poor..!’-argument…

    ..popular in right-wing circles..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  103. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    OK…so the answer is to borrow another 5 billion for the promises that Goof has made?

    How about we deal with fact not promises, as Key’s track record on promises isn’t something to be lauded either ?

    Key and English are borrowing 300 million a week to pay for taxcuts we couldn’t afford, nor needed as it has done nothing to stimulate the economy. With the part payback option being to sell off well performing state assets.

    Seeing as how we’re dipping back in to recession for the second quarter in a row, i suppose you’re going to blame Clark and Cullen for that too ?

    Man up, grow a pair and hold your lot accountable for their failings rather than apologise for their lack of ability.

    Yes Black we would have been completely debt free, our commercial sector and export sector would have been much more globally competitive due to the outward business-friendly thinking combined with realistic and actual experience of real-world commercial operation experience

    And this would have happened under English watch during ‘the boom years’ ? My God how deluded you are !!!

    Specifically, policy by policy. You said it, back it up.

    Tell me how English, with his *ahem* real world business acumen, would have done what you claim based on the policies they were putting forward during the Cullen years and given the warnings they were supposedly privy to of an impending GFC?

    More likely he would have made grand election bribing taxcuts, sold off assets to foreign investors, bought a few shiny warplanes while rorting even more than he already has and hiding it behind his wife’s trust.

    If the option is Cunliffe or English for a forward looking alternative in economic policy. I’ll go with Cunliffe based solely on English’ track record. English is as much yesterday’s man as any the original poster sought to highlight in Labour’s current front bench.

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  104. starboard (2,549 comments) says:

    “Labour’s current front bench”

    .mate Ive seen a better line up on Tales of the Crypt…

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  105. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    as opposed to…english…mccully…collins…brownlee…ryall..tolley..bennett…and the hollow/mincing-man..

    ..and the chubster-twins…power and joyce…

    ..eh..?

    fucken oil paintings..!..all of them…!

    eh..?

    ‘tales of the crypt’..indeed….!

    they have no soul..!..they have no heart…!..they have no compassion..!

    ..see the greed-driven/class-warrior monsters that inhabit the tory/regressive-party…!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  106. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    If the answer is English, the question was a waffle.

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  107. starboard (2,549 comments) says:

    one just need look at Grandma king and mouldy mallard to give you a feel for the formaldehyde infused bunch

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  108. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    whereas…the national cabinet is a mix of ‘who ate all the pies?’…

    …and those ‘lean and hungry’ men warned of by shakespeare…

    ..and they are the most ‘beautiful-people’ in national..?

    whoar..!

    it must be grim down at the grass-roots…eh..?

    (mind you..farrar did once post photos of a natty-meeting somewhere nth of wellington..

    …and there was yr living -dead…

    ..interspersed with a few younger hard-eyed opportunists..

    ..and that pretty much sums up the national party membership..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  109. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    anyway..that’s enough fun..for now..

    ..the dogs are bullying me for a walk to the park…

    later..morons/foils..!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  110. starboard (2,549 comments) says:

    look phool…get over it ..we won you lost..move on..

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  111. Inventory2 (10,407 comments) says:

    Philip Ure said

    they have no soul..!..they have no heart…!..they have no compassion..!

    ..see the greed-driven/class-warrior monsters that inhabit the tory/regressive-party…!

    Meanwhile Phil, YOU have no conscience and no shame about accepting handouts from the taxpayer when you could and should be working. Your excuses are lame; there are all sorts of options that you could choose to make sure that your son is kept out of harm’s way until you get home. But you have made your choice; to remain on a benefit and whatever other taxpayer-funded support you receive. Don’t complain that it is not enough, because it is all that the country can afford; not even Labour is suggesting a rise in benefit levels.

    You have made your bed; stop moaning about how uncomfortable it is.

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  112. kiwi in america (2,508 comments) says:

    Black
    Answer Reid’s question – what would Cunliffe’s “forward looking policies” look like?

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  113. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    and let’s not forget…

    national is the party that fashion forgot…

    …eh..?

    they are at both the fag-end of a discredited ideology…

    ..and the fag-end of fashion…

    ..the complete fag-end package…

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  114. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    as i said inv…unlike you..it is not all about me..

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  115. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    BWAV

    You have not answered the question, do you really think that borrowing billions more as Goff has said he will do is the answer?

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  116. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..what would Cunliffe’s “forward looking policies” look like?..”

    getting a bit nervous/clammy there…?..kia..?

    (here’s a thought/fact to hold/savour/get nervous about…

    ..yr friends..the tories/regressives in britain…have raised taxes to 83%…

    ..how does that sound..?…

    y’know..!..for starters..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  117. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..do you really think that borrowing billions more as Goff has said he will do is the answer?..”

    no..but soaking the rich is getting closer to it…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  118. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Answer Reid’s question – what would Cunliffe’s “forward looking policies” look like?

    Ask the man himself.

    David Cunliffe. Phone: +64 4 817 8212. Fax: +64 4 472 7036.
    Email: david.cunliffe@parliament.govt.nz.

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  119. big bruv (14,135 comments) says:

    Phool

    So you are not really about getting more for the so called poor are you, what you are really all about is hitting those who have worked hard and done well.

    And you really think you have a right to more of their money?

    BTW…how many jobs did you apply for today?

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  120. kiwi in america (2,508 comments) says:

    Black
    I figured as much – you don’t know – just spouting Labour’s talking points.

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  121. Black with a Vengeance (1,865 comments) says:

    Sorry I can’t channel the word of Cunliffe to sate your trolling desires, k i a. How about you do your own homework or get reid to answer what English’ policies were to avoid the GFC ?

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  122. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    yes Todd .. I was quoting philu .. went to bed early as I had 3 days off WORK to clean/sand/paint an old house .. I worked harder in those 3 days, while on leave, than philu has worked in years so really tired. Back again this morning and am shattered .. ever been shattered after working philu?? eh??

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