General Debate 16 February 2011

February 16th, 2011 at 8:33 am by David Farrar
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85 Responses to “General Debate 16 February 2011”

  1. Brian Harmer (686 comments) says:

    The reaction to the BMW fleet upgrade is typically NZ. No luxuries here, we’re Kiwis. Oh look! The grass is greener in Australia.

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  2. m@tt (535 comments) says:

    The reaction to the BMW fleet was highly predictable. I can’t for the life of me understand how the nats didn’t see this one coming.

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  3. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    breakfast television this morning is like sitting in a cafe..

    ..having to endure a mindless conversation at the next table…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  4. TimG_Oz (883 comments) says:

    Wow, Brian, do you consider BMW luxuries in NZ? Even the Dole Bludgers drive them here ….

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  5. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    A message from the People of Egypt to the People of Auckland Supercity

    We send our support and best wishes to the oppressed People of Auckland Supercity.

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  6. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    a new zealand soldier has been killed in afghanistan..and three injured..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  7. Sideoiler (69 comments) says:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/68676/big-increase-in-gun-licence-requests
    Great news

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  8. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    having a day off today, and Friday .. Champions League footy all morning. No wonder philu has opted out of work, I could get used to this.

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  9. thedavincimode (6,119 comments) says:

    “breakfast television this morning is like sitting in a cafe..

    ..having to endure a mindless conversation at the next table…”

    I’m calling ‘own goal’ on that one.

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  10. pentwig (240 comments) says:

    philu (10,216) Says:
    February 16th, 2011 at 8:46 am

    breakfast television this morning is like sitting in a cafe..

    ..having to endure a mindless conversation at the next table…

    That is because you have sit by yourself, everybody having enough sense to keep a 10m radius distance.

    Having to endure the mindless conversation at the next table would be preferable than to listen the garbage that spews from your little brain.

    Remember your bloggers drinks fiasco? We do!

    No social skills whatsoever.

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  11. big bruv (12,354 comments) says:

    pentwig

    Please remind those of us who did not attend the bloggers drinks what happened.

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  12. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    “..Remember your bloggers drinks fiasco? We do!..”

    were you there…pentwig/wept gin..?

    (..were you one of the younger snottier ones…?….

    or one of the older ones…with their glowing red knecks….eh..?)

    when i would put up with your racism/beneficiary/poor-bashing/anti-semitism ‘banter’…no more…?

    (what was the trigger..?..that’s right..!..referring to a public figure sneeringly as ‘the little jew’…

    ..and everyone/you all sniggering in agreement..

    ..that had me up on my hindlegs…telling you all how vile you are..

    ..and stalking off..

    i regret none of that…

    ..and if i could do a re-run…

    ..my hind-legs-turn wd be far longer…more nuanced….

    ..eh..?

    you vile little person you…

    ..eh..?

    ‘wept gin’…indeed…

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  13. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    (ah..!..the memories come flooding back..)

    quite a few of the younger ones had that look men/teenagers get when they masturbate to excess…

    rheumey/flickering eyes and all….

    ..and that tell-tale action/twitch with the knees..

    they were the kids who got the crap kicked out of them as kids at school…the pariahs..

    ..often they grow up into angry/bitter/nasty rightwingers…

    ..who try to be bullies…but from behind false-names..

    …eh wept gin/sociopathic obese-sibling..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  14. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    one of my boys has signed up for a 3 month temp job and just stopped off home .. had to go to the main site to ………… join a fkg union.. jesus wept. I asked what union and he didn’t know, just meet a guy and signed on…. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I expect it’s the EMPU

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  15. big bruv (12,354 comments) says:

    Stuff are reporting the death of a NZ soldier in Afghanistan.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/4663278/Kiwi-soldier-killed-three-hurt-in-Afghanistan

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  16. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    “Remember your bloggers drinks fiasco? We do!

    No social skills whatsoever”

    …Bawhahahahaha!! And its only 10am !!..snigger…snort..

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  17. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    (gordon campbell has done a worthy piece on welfare-myths..)

    http://whoar.co.nz/2011/ten-myths-about-welfare/

    “…Yes, there is a lot the Welfare Working Group could have considered in depth – but didn’t.

    Yet the government already seems on board with some of the harsher options – even before the WWG’s final report has been tabled.

    At this year’s opening of Parliament – Prime Minister John Key signalled his intention to enforce a five-year time-limit on benefits -

    - random audits of sickness benefit certification – work for the dole after six months -

    - and tougher conditions requiring paid work for parents – (usually, women raising children alone) – who are receiving the domestic purposes benefit.

    This crackdown will come at a time when the failure of the government to keep its side of the social compact is evident.

    In December, unemployment reached 158,000 – just shy of the 163,000 peak reached at the height of the global recession.

    Perhaps the people in real need of tougher work tests are the Ministers seated around the Cabinet table.

    To soften the image of a government that plans to require more DPB, sickness and invalids beneficiaries to chase after phantom jobs -

    - Prime Minister John Key has begun talking about the need for the state to provide affordable, quality childcare as part of its reform process.

    “If we are seriously going to have an expectation that a young mum is going to get off the DPB and into the workforce, even on a part-time basis, we are also going to have to make sure her child is in a safe environment and is cared for and that it is cost effective”.

    This concession by Key undermines much of the logic for his welfare reforms.

    If the work of solo parenting is valuable – and obviously it is -

    - because otherwise Key wouldn’t be saying the country needs to pay someone else big money to do it to anything like the same standard –

    - where is the net social or economic gain in pushing DPB recipients prematurely out to work?

    At best, the reforms will only replace the parent with a surrogate paid by the state.

    For what reason?

    The current stats on the age of most DPB recipients (the vast majority are aged 25-54) and the limited period of time most solo parents spend on the DPB (see below) -

    - do not support Key’s claim that ‘a significant number of very young women [are] going onto the DPB and staying there for a lifetime.’

    Really?

    So many that it can justify the stigmatizing of virtually everyone on the DPB ?

    The process is almost entirely about politics.

    The message of welfare reform is not being aimed at beneficiaries – who are merely collateral damage in this process – but at low and middle income workers.

    In election year – there are electoral gains to be made from targeting people on benefits -

    - even if only to divert criticism of the government’s own failure to manage the economy…” (cont..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  18. pentwig (240 comments) says:

    Big Bruv

    the phool just explained it far more eloquently than I could.

    He did omit he was given a huge serve by CC and run out crying with no esteem or self respect left.
    Just screaming how he hated every body and we’re all right wing f***** wankers.
    With tears running done his face.
    Coward!!
    Running out the door.
    Crying
    With tail between his legs.

    A sight engrained forever.

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  19. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    yeah..ok..’tears’..eh..?

    do we believe that folks..?…

    .and i was slightly more eloquent ..than ‘i hate you..rightwing wankers’…

    and all i got from cc was a business-card..eh..?

    ..and i wd note..that attempts to extract any logic from you..in support of yr (literally) bankrupt ideology/beliefs..

    ..fell on fallow ground…

    …there..as here…all you really have is a tightly-wound bundle of prejudices…leavened with personal greed…

    ..and masquerading as ‘political-beliefs’..eh..?

    ..that you are unable to articulate much past the sloganeering-prejudices…eh..?…

    and let me tell you about the fashion faux-pax….

    they were all confirmation that national is the party that fashion forgot…

    ..it was like being at a bowling club social in the wairarapa…

    ..and that was just the young ones..

    (all of which helps to explain their need for excessive-auto-eroticism…eh..?

    …it wd be a very strange young woman/man attracted to these specimens…

    ..i think all the action they get…is either them falling on each other when drunk…

    ..or what they pay for..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  20. tester (9 comments) says:

    Does anyone know why the flag on the Beehive is flying at half mast?

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  21. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    In the two years of Barrys rein of incompetence his crocked cabal has boosted bureaucracy by a further 200,000 shiny arses. Is not socialism a insidious disease.

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  22. Chthoniid (1,966 comments) says:

    @tester

    Does anyone know why the flag on the Beehive is flying at half mast?

    I presume as a mark of respect to Kiwi soldier recently announced killed in Afghanistan.

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  23. pentwig (240 comments) says:

    phool/luphi

    Boo hoo!

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  24. big bruv (12,354 comments) says:

    tester

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/4663278/Kiwi-soldier-killed-three-hurt-in-Afghanistan

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  25. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    yay..!..someone has agreed to upgrade/revamp whoar for me…

    …so..amongst other things… i can start taking ads….

    ..my overheads are minimal…

    ..so i should be off the benny soon…

    mmm..!!!!!..

    ..’income’…!

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  26. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    WOW!

    A Harvard historian schools MSNBC hosts on the reality of Egypt, it’s probably future, and Obama and his team being second rate and not having a foreign policy. Finally someone who knows what he’s talking about!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9sMo-LTdSc&feature=player_embedded

    I had to laugh at the female host saying she thinks “it went pretty damn well” and the Harvard guy giving her some cold, hard facts.

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  27. Inventory2 (9,788 comments) says:

    Sadly Phil, you need traffic to generate advertising revenue. I doubt that the long-suffering taxpayer will get a break any time soon…

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  28. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    philu @ 9.49
    a very funny own goal kicked as only one with a self declared IQ ‘north of 140′ can. Brilliant.

    “quite a few of the younger ones had that look men/teenagers get when they masturbate to excess”

    Now how would this genius know what that look meant ? Unless…………

    There you go philu, my treat, someone responded to one of your posts.
    gangway, bathroom.

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  29. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    we’ll see..eh inv..we’ll see…

    and i know all you rightwingers will be so chuffed for me…eh..?

    and overflowing with congratulations for getting off the benny ..eh..?

    you will be consistant…

    ..won’t you…?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  30. KevinH (1,128 comments) says:

    The flag is flying at half mast because of the death of the soldier in Afghanistan. Commiserations and condolences to the family of the deceased, your son served our country with dignity and respect and honour.
    The other reason is because Julia Gillard is in Wellywood today and is about to massacre the english language in her address at Parliament today.

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  31. malcolm (2,000 comments) says:

    Fletch, I don’t see there’s much the US could do. What would you have done differently?

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  32. Chthoniid (1,966 comments) says:

    And because it’s the 15th of Feb in Italy, that makes today the anniversary of Galileo’s birthday in 1564. That’s a green-light for heliocentrism.

    I guess it won’t be noticed in some parts of the Islamic world though- http://anotheratheist.tumblr.com/post/3186406593

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  33. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    y’see..inv…

    it’ll be the quality of stories like the following that will bring people to whoar…eh..?

    …and will make them come back…daily…

    http://whoar.co.nz/2011/the-untold-story-of-how-my-dad-helped-invent-the-first-mac/

    “…The guiding principles laid out in those early days — from “think small” to top-down control — still run through Apple’s DNA to this day.

    Jef Raskin, my father, (below) helped develop the Macintosh -

    - and I was recently looking at some of his old documents – and came across his February 16, 1981 memo detailing the genesis of the Macintosh.

    It was written in reaction to Steve Jobs taking over managing hardware development.

    Reading through it – I was struck by a number of the core principals Apple now holds that were set in play three years before the Macintosh was released.

    Much of this is particularly important in understanding Apple’s culture -

    - and why we have the walled-garden experience of the iPhone, iPad, and the App Store.

    Even better, I found some sometimes snarky comments Jef had made to the memo as part of the Stanford Computer History project.

    The annotated memo follows my commentary…” (cont..)

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  34. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    poor julia gillard…

    having to sit there putting up with the eye-wateringly boring..addresses in reply…

    ..from every party leader..?

    surely they won’t make her endure hide…?

    ..that is a trans-tasman ask too far….

    ..eh..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  35. Bryla (263 comments) says:

    I hear that we’re just about to “win” the war in afghanistan. Al Quaida has disappeared, the Taliban has been broken, women have been liberated, democracy and justice achieved. Sacrificing young soldiers just makes so much sense for constructive achievements like these. Pakistan is growing more democratic and stable even as we speak.

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  36. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    if i were advising labour..

    i wd tell goff to go into the election campaign pledging to cut ministerial salaries by ten percent…

    and to hold that for the term of his govt…

    it’s simple…won’t hurt anyone…(they will just be 10% less rich…)..

    ..but will be hugely symbolic..

    ..and a vote-winner..

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  37. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    w.t.f are you smoking..?..bryla..?

    got any evidence/links..?

    or is that one just a random orifice-pluck..?

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  38. pentwig (240 comments) says:

    He’s obviously smoking the same shit as you phool/luphi

    Same dealer?

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  39. starboard (2,447 comments) says:

    petrol up again today…91 costing 2.03. ” oh but our margins are tight”…”the price of crude has increased”…” the dollar has dropped”…”we are gettin screwed at the refinery” ( but we own the refinery )….ppfftt …

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  40. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,786 comments) says:

    Anyone watch the Brits 2011 tonight?

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  41. grumpyoldhori (2,410 comments) says:

    jaba so why did your boy not tell them to stick the job if he had to join a evil union to get it ?

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  42. Bryla (263 comments) says:

    You mean we’re NOT winning in Afghanistan? But soldiers and civilians are dying there!

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  43. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    Oh dear – film trailer parody for ‘Tron Jeremy’ (I assume that Ron Jeremy needs no introduction?)

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  44. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Rodney Hide was on NewstalkZB radio this morning saying he will not resign (as requested by the racist Sharples), and all is the Cabinet’s fault for agreeing to Maori boards, which he had opposed.

    Why don’t you cut the crap Mr Hide, save us the platitudes, and resign immediately from this weak Labour-lite goverment, which appears hellbent on stooping to every Maori Party request?

    Are the baubles of office so good that you can not forgo them?

    Mr Hide, follow your principles, if you have any, and show political courage. Otherwise, ACT is finished, kaputt.

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  45. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    You mean we’re NOT winning in Afghanistan? But soldiers and civilians are dying there!

    Oh, you would have been a right hoot on the western front…

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  46. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    THIS is the world that redbaiter and his teabaggers want to imose on us all.

    A law under consideration in South Dakota would expand the definition of “justifiable homicide” to include killings that are intended to prevent harm to a fetus—a move that could make it legal to kill doctors who perform abortions.


    http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/south-dakota-hb-1171-legalize-killing-abortion-providers

    That’s right. Get up. Go to work. Perform a legal task. Get murdered. Murderer gets a flash new house and a Ukranian bride.

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  47. Inventory2 (9,788 comments) says:

    @ Phil – if you can get off the benny, I will be delighted. I won’t however hold my breath, because we’ve been down this road before last year when you were going to top the Huffington Post and ace the Alexa rankings. As of today, whoar.co.nz is the 16,664th ranked website in New Zealand. to give some context to that number, Kiwiblog is 138th. You still have some way to go …

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  48. Lance (2,309 comments) says:

    On the streets in Egypt
    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/8845967/cbs-reporter-lara-logan-assaulted-in-egypt

    vile vile vile retards better suited to the stone-age

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  49. AlphaKiwi (684 comments) says:

    The myth of violence

    http://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html

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  50. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    (questiontime was tedium on wheels…avoid…!…)

    Questions to Ministers

    1. Hon PHIL GOFF to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by his statement with respect to the payment of a dividend by a State-owned enterprise, that the Government expected to receive a return from them because “if we don’t how do we pay for our doctors and hospitals and the likes”?

    $300 million dividend from soe’s last yr…how much went to health etc..

    why sell if so valuable..so dividends go o/s/to private investors..

    key..to pay debts..

    asks key if treasury told him foreign ownership wd result..

    (key says ‘mum $ dad investors’…drink up..!..)

    douglas stands up to defend selling state assets…(oh..!..the ironies abound…!..)

    treasury told key little performance improvement wd happen from privatisation…

    (ed:..goff didn’t do as well as he should have…)

    2. METIRIA TUREI to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does the Government’s commitment to closing the gap with Australia include reducing child poverty?..”

    (cont..)

    http://whoar.co.nz/2011/questiontime-wednesday-16-february-2011/

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  51. paws (197 comments) says:

    Hone Key has closed the gap with Australia, Hones the bro, Wheres a gay to cuddle, hell is there a handicap voter around for a kiss on the cheek, and a muslim to give a peck on the cheek and share anti ISRAELI jokes with, hone will suffer for a vote
    OUR 34,BMW 7 series at a cost of $200000 are far beter than any shit ford or holden crap, that the ockers can put up ,TRULY hone key the smiling dickhead has close some type of gap, his butt OPPS it was the office boys fault

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  52. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    I notice that on JK’s facebook, he has a post notifying of pictures of him and Julia Gillard up on “Twit-pic” …

    ’nuff said…

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  53. paws (197 comments) says:

    Tamati Coffey announces engagement
    February 16, 2011, 2:03 pmYahoo!Xtra

    TV One’s star weatherman and ballroom dancer extraordinaire Tamati Coffey, has announced his engagement to his partner
    Coffey announced his engagement on the year’s most romantic day, Valentine’s Day, on Facebook – with friends instantly inundating him with congratulatory messages.

    A TVNZ spokesperson said the company wishes the couple the very best, as does the team at Yahoo!Xtra.

    Coffey and Smith plan to hold a civil union near the end of the year.

    Coffey was last week announced as a finalist in the sexiest man category in the Best on the Box People’s Choice Awards.
    i hope their first child is brown as it could be between these two males

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  54. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Recently i remarked that when French Pres Sarkosy visited Washington Obama made the pointed statement that,
    ‘the USA has no greater friend than France and the French people.’ and wondered if that was a bitch slap at Britain
    and the relationship between Blair and W Bush.
    Now it is revealed through Wikkileaks that part of the price Obama paid to get Russia to sign the SALT nuclear arms
    treaty was to reveal to Russia the previously secret size of the British nuclear arsenal.
    When you consider Obamas renegging on the missile protection in Poland, his silence during the student revolt in Iran and his dithering over Egypt untill after Mubarak stepped down. You might wonder what his foreign policy agenda really is.
    Israel must be wondering if they actually have an ally they can count on in the USA any longer.

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  55. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    paws , congratulations, that was very witty and funny.
    Gok Wan or whatever his name was must be gutted. Poor sod.

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  56. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    Thanks for the link AlphaKiwi. Interesting perspective!

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  57. AlphaKiwi (684 comments) says:

    @ adze

    Those TedTalks have so many talks and they’re all free! :)

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  58. paws (197 comments) says:

    bereal (512) Says:

    February 16th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
    paws , congratulations, that was very witty and funny.

    With humble thanks bereal the maori are rather hopeful that a baby produced between a union of these two men ,one brown will produce brown offspring

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  59. adze (1,695 comments) says:

    @Alpha

    Did you read the comments underneath the video? A debate erupted immediately along political lines, with the old chestnut of class warfare and noble prehistoric huntergatherer myth in evidence.

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  60. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    I have been sent the following which was sent to the Government. I think is very good -

    Act Party minority view

    The ACT Party strongly objects to the process in which the Māori Affairs Committee has
    considered this bill. Parties were given notice of less than one day to submit a minority
    view on the bill, and more importantly were not being permitted to view the final copy of
    the bill before submitting a minority view.
    In addition, the 500 page officials’ report was made available to ACT just four days before
    it was due to be considered, and was deliberated on by the committee in only one
    afternoon. ACT considers this a massive abuse of the Parliamentary process. It is
    inconceivable that members of the committee could understand and comprehend the
    changes proposed in such a short time.
    It was ACT that first raised the possibility that as originally drafted customary title holders
    may be able to charge for access to the beach. The Government subsequently agreed with
    ACT that the bill would be amended to make it explicit that the public cannot be charged
    for accessing the common marine and coastal area. While ACT is yet to see this clause in
    context we take some comfort that the Government appear to have followed through on
    this commitment.
    In addition, ACT vigorously opposed the ability for the Minister in charge to negotiate
    behind closed doors customary title agreements which would then pass into law through
    Order in Council. ACT is pleased the Government now proposes that negotiated
    agreements can only come into effect through legislation and not Order in Council. Once
    again we are yet to see these provisions in context but are guardedly optimistic that our
    objection to this specific provision has been recognised.
    Notwithstanding the above comments on access and negotiated agreements our overriding
    objections to the bill and to the process still remain.
    The Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill exacerbates the problems created by the
    2004 Foreshore and Seabed Act.
    ACT opposed Labour’s 2004 Foreshore and Seabed Bill because we believe that iwi—like
    all New Zealanders—should be able to apply to the Courts to explore the nature and
    extent of, and to defend, their property rights.
    The existence and scope of customary rights, or any contested right, should be a matter for
    the Courts to decide by applying existing common law. We still believe that is the proper
    and fair course to follow.
    Since 1840 Māori have been entitled to call on the common law and the protection of the
    Courts to attempt to establish customary rights.
    It is a long-established principle of the common law that certain customs can have the
    effect of law if they have been exercised by local inhabitants over long periods of time.
    These may include such matters as rights-of way, the right to fish or collect shellfish, or the
    right to plant a particular crop.
    For generations these customary laws have walked hand-in-hand with statute law. Judges
    have been able to look at the way that communities have operated over the years, and to
    recognise local custom and usage where it conflicts with the broader law.
    This bill, like the Act it proposes to replace, ignores centuries of common law and attempts
    to establish its own regime. As a result, just like with the 2004 Act it has numerous flaws.
    At the more general level:
     The bill draws on aspects of the co-governance model in some Treaty settlements, by
    granting Māori participation in statutory processes and by introducing veto rights
    that will add a further layer of complexity and cost to an already over-regulated
    society.
     It is riddled throughout with undefined Māori terms and ambiguous or undefined
    expressions. A bill that affects everyone should be in plain English, and not have
    crucial provisions or phrases expressed in ways which lack precise definition. These
    problematic expressions include “substantial interruption”, “more than minor”,
    “customary authority”, “reasonable grounds”, “mana tuku iho”, and “tikanga”.
     It allows deals to be done behind closed doors thereby making it inevitable that
    customary rights and customary title decisions will end up being corrupted by
    political deal-making. It is easy to see the possibility that, where two competing iwi
    make a claim, the likely winner will be the more politically influential iwi that can
    offer the most support to the Government.
     There are potentially vast wealth transfers involved: what would otherwise be held by
    the Crown for the interest of all could pass into the ownership of tiny minorities, all
    justified on the flimsiest of grounds and influenced by the needs of temporary
    political coalitions.
    This bill risks taking legitimately-held rights away from some, while granting rights to
    others who are not entitled to them. It is likely to substantially expand potential iwi or hapu
    rights over the New Zealand coastline as it significantly lowers the common law tests for
    iwi to gain powerful coastal rights.
    Protected customary right powers, for instance, outrank local authorities. Customary
    marine title gives titleholders powerful ownership rights including development and mining
    rights, full rights of veto over conservation applications and resource consents (“on any
    grounds” and with no right of appeal), and potentially the ability to impose coastal plans on
    local and central Gvernment.
    The process envisaged in the bill lacks transparency; will not be open to those who contest
    the claimed special status; will have no right of appeal; and will be open to influence by
    considerations which are personal, subject to the political pressures of the day, and thus
    open to manipulation and corruption.
    What should happen?
    The proper process is to:
     Reinstate the rights of appeal for Ngāti Apa and the Crown which were denied by
    the 2004 Act
     Provide for any case to be taken to the general Courts, and on appeal to higher
    Courts
     Reconfirm ownership of the foreshore and seabed in the Crown, but without
    prejudice to claims for customary rights and interests
     Leave the Courts to resolve the issue under normal common law principles which
    consider issues of domination or control, persistence or continuity of use, access and
    exclusivity
     Apply the law even-handedly to all property interests and all New Zealanders

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  61. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1102/S … -ranks.htm

    National MPs Under Pressure to Break Ranks
    Tuesday, 15 February 2011, 3:55 pm
    Column: Muriel Newman

    National MPs Under Pressure to Break Ranks

    by Muriel Newman

    National MPs are coming under intense pressure to break ranks and vote against the controversial Marine and Coastal Area Bill, Coastal Coalition spokesman Dr Muriel Newman said today.

    “National Party MPs and Peter Dunne are coming under intense pressure from their former supporters. They want the National Party to toss the bill out because no-one wants it – neither Maori nor non-Maori. They want John Key – who said the bill would not go ahead unless there is widespread support – to honour his word. Despite the widespread opposition he is about to rush the Bill through Parliament.

    “The Bill has become a major headache for the National Party. More MPs are now realising that this issue is about privilege and not about restoring fairness as was initially claimed by Prime Minister, John Key.”

    The controversy has intensified since the Maori Party revealed it has made a backroom deal with National to fund the claims process. Dr Newman says this makes a mockery of John Key’s claim that the bill will heal a ‘weeping sore’.

    “It is absolutely clear that the passing of the Marine and Coastal Area Bill will be the start of what will become a long and expensive process, and now we find it will be taxpayers and not iwi who will be funding that process. It’s a totally unfair situation and Kiwi’s have every right to be outraged.

    “National has refused to say how much the slush fund will cost taxpayers but it is expected to be many millions of dollars and could be as high as the $23.2 million National contributed towards the Treaty claims process last year and the $25.7 million it gave to the Crown Forestry Rental Trust.

    “The current debacle regarding the funding of unelected Maori representation on the new Auckland super city council shows the Maori grievance industry is all about money and privilege, not fairness. Ordinary Kiwis have had enough and are becoming increasingly agitated about the escalation of Maori privilege that is being supported by John Key.

    “With the public being mislead by John Key and Chris Finlayson over the Marine and Coastal Area Bill, the sooner that National MPs find the courage to stand up for their constituents against this dreadful Bill, the better”, Dr Newman said.

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  62. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Mark Steyn on multiculturalism:

    http://www.steynonline.com/content/view/3727/26

    So now the same political class is telling us that multiculturalism is a failure – “a wrong-headed doctrine that has had disastrous results,” as David Cameron put it, leading immigrant communities “to live separate lives, apart from each other and apart from the mainstream.” The Prime Minister said the cure for multiculturalism is “muscular liberalism”, which sounds pretty butch for a 21st century Brit pol. But, as the speech went on, the muscle turned to flab before your very eyes: Don’t worry, there’s no problem with Islam – “a religion observed peacefully and devoutly by over a billion people” – only with “Islamist extremism”, and while the problem with “Islamist extremism” can manifest itself in unfortunate ways – “the biggest threat that we face is terrorist attacks” – it is “important to stress that terrorism is not linked to any one religion or ethnic group”.

    If you were one of those lavishly-funded Muslim lobby groups that dreams of seeing the Islamic crescent flying over Buckingham Palace, you’d be forgiven for thinking that, for all the muscle, it’s just PC bollocks as usual.

    The “biggest threat” is not that al-Qa’eda will blow up the Tower of London or the Pompidou Centre, but that in the nullity of the modern multicultural state, through simple demographic arithmetic and a thousand trivial, incremental concessions, the west will day by day Islamise – remorselessly and disastrously.

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  63. paws (197 comments) says:

    National MPs having courage and voting for New Zealand against hone keys idiocy, first of all do they have BRAINS, nope BACKBONE softer than jellyfish and the BALLS to stand up to hone key the BRO/boss that runs national, nope the balls in parliment took off to the UN and i hate helen davis, FUCK hone key has bought this years production of bemmers to bribe the lackey troughers, INSULT trougher MPs it should become a national sport DO IT AT EVERY OCCASION i do

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  64. Steve (4,323 comments) says:

    Manolo (3,291) Says:

    February 16th, 2011 at 7:34 am
    It is not a good idea to invest taxpayer’s money in business ventures with crooks, is it?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/4661845/Ministry-defends-wild-horse-job-scheme

    A taxpayer-funded job scheme was given more than $30,000 to round up wild horses in the Ureweras only for them to be released back into the mountains.

    Most of the horses caught in the six-month scheme were sent back into the wild after a bid to sell them to Maori activist Tame Iti fell through, it was reported last night.

    The scheme is one of several under scrutiny as the Government faces questions about its $57.3 million Community Max programme to help young people get work experience and jobs during the recession.

    Scheme organiser Richard Tu Marae said the aim was to identify the horses’ owners and look at the potential to sell some to Tuhoe’s Mr Iti. But the sale was called off after he offered only $250 each for 20 of the horses. As a result, 27 were returned to the wild.

    What I want to know is how much will it cost to send Tame Iti back to the wild? No Welfare no nothing Iti. Take your Tuhoe Nation and live on your land. But do not come out and expect the White Man to pay for your bludging lifestyle. You just go to your place and form your own Govt and do as you wish. When you run out of the things you expect to be given, you can FUCK OFF

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  65. Megatron (184 comments) says:

    I think Michael Laws should be sacked for his dismissive offensive comments about disabled athletes.
    His attitude is disgusting.

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  66. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    I think Michael Laws should be sacked for stating the bleeding obvious.

    1. Disabled athletes are fine, in a rehab home.

    2. It is a nonsense to compare their “achievements” with those of elite, able bodied athletes.

    3. Even those who won gold medals are still cripples.

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  67. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    “A taxpayer-funded job scheme was given more than $30,000 to round up wild horses in the Ureweras only for them to be released back into the mountains.
    Most of the horses caught in the six-month scheme were sent back into the wild after a bid to sell them to Maori activist Tame Iti fell through, it was reported last night.”

    I think all of you should just calm down, tune to channel 19 and watch Mr. Ed. and Wilbur speaking Murri. :)

    The mind boggles! :)

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  68. paws (197 comments) says:

    Thank god Hone keys gummint has ruined the NZ pork industry it gives all of us a chance to eat polluted hormone antibiotic filled crap pork from asiaYUK again thanks hone key for the chance to eat the shit poultry that we will have to eat from asia after your laws kill our egg industry off.You will never need to visit a doctor again (antibotics) but then worry about your newborn babies
    ps HONE is/was a futures dealer and HE IS THE PM with the ability to effect the market

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  69. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    Why is John/JSF/Joe Average/ Roger Rabbit/Jock/Harry Glicken still allowed to post under his name “paws”? He’s currently serving 8 months ban, soon to be nine months if DPF continues adding a month for every bogus identity used to dodge the ban

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  70. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    My Name is Jack at 7:56 pm said “I think…”

    Amazing you would commence a sentence with that, as you then set out three reasons why you should be regarded as little more than a small-minded piece of trash.

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  71. AlphaKiwi (684 comments) says:

    @ adze

    People love to debate online about how to improve things but very rarely do things in real life to improve things.

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  72. MyNameIsJack (2,415 comments) says:

    Hey Rodders!! Is that the best you’ve got?

    Guess you belong in the parapathetics.

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  73. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    You believe I belong in the Peripatetics? Thanks for the compliment.

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  74. Hurf Durf (2,860 comments) says:

    Don’t you just love the far-left?

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  75. big bruv (12,354 comments) says:

    I cannot believe all the rubbish some of you are throwing at Laws for stating the obvious, while I applaud the effort that “Special Olympians” put into their sport it is not worthy of being considered for a Helberg award.

    Gongs like that are for top level sport, sport that is played at the elite level.

    Which makes me wonder why we ever have females nominated for team of the year or athlete of the year unless they are part of a sport or team that is only played by females.

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  76. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    Never forget what Laws, when an MP “carelessly” (his words) let slip on the Holmes programmme. He argued that the mother of a severely disabled boy should be able to have a lethal injection administered to him.
    That says it all.

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  77. Megatron (184 comments) says:

    I thought Laws might demonstrate more compassion after what he’s been through with his own daughter’s battle with cancer.

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  78. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    When Mark Steyn can spell out the danger of islam for us, and it is so obvious.
    Manolo 6.55
    Then why do we have to be so politically correct in New Zealand that we must ignore the truth ?
    Why do we continue to import muslims into our country ?
    Its hard to fathom. Is it because Helen Clark told the sheeple over and over that we are a ‘multicultural
    society’ ?
    Of all the harm Helen has done to NZ will this be her greatest perverse legacy ?
    Why has no one got the guts in NZ to say, “hey, the emperor has no fucken clothes.”

    Why cant more of us think for ourselves ?

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  79. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    “Why do we continue to import muslims into our country ?”

    Well they are just such fun Beryl. :)

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  80. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Hell if it wasn’t for Muslims think of all the shooting ranges the government would have to build.

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  81. Rex Widerstrom (5,125 comments) says:

    Rodders Says:

    Never forget what Laws, when an MP “carelessly” (his words) let slip on the Holmes programmme. He argued that the mother of a severely disabled boy should be able to have a lethal injection administered to him.
    That says it all.

    If only that included the morally crippled, it would count as self harm.

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  82. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Malkin slams the false Messiah’s wife.

    http://michellemalkin.com/2011/02/16/super-nanny-first-lady-of-junk-science-michelle-obama/

    Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. — C.S. Lewis

    America is finally catching on. For nearly two years, I’ve chronicled food profiteer-turned-food cop Michelle Obama’s obese and obscene power grab masquerading as a public health crusade. She quickly leveraged her hubby’s U.S. Senate victory to snag a lucrative seat on the corporate Board of Directors of TreeHouse Foods, Inc. despite having zero experience in the industry, publicly begrudged other Americans’ choices in how they earn their money — and then parlayed her East Wing power to push Obamacare, threaten food advertisers’ speech and serve the SEIU’s legislative agenda and brow-beat restaurants over portion sizes.

    Mrs. O even played the childhood obesity card to try and win the Chicago crony-lympics bid.

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  83. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Prime Minister John Key says beneficiaries who resort to food banks do so out of their own “poor choices” rather than because they cannot afford food.

    Responding to a question in Parliament about poverty levels, Mr Key said said the benefit was enough to live on, saying “if one budgets properly, one can pay one’s bills.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10706807

    Well said, Mr Key.

    Now, say it louder and more often. Follow it up with a campaign against parasites and bludgers through welfare reform and I will believe you.

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  84. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    More “quality” spending from Labour-lite, following the example set by its redder sister:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10706831

    $26,000 to fund hip hop dance classes

    The National Government is continuing to face flak over its Community Max programme, with new revelations about a $26,000 grant to fund hip-hop classes.

    This week, National’s Acting Social Development Minister Simon Power tried to blunt Labour’s attacks on the Community Max programme by reminding them of their own follies, including a 2004 grant for a mother and daughter to research hip-hop in New York, Los Angeles, Hawaii, Fiji, Samoa and Paris.

    Last night it was revealed that a similar amount was given under Community Max to a Christchurch group to fund two people to teach hip-hop “as an alternative sporting option outside of the usual mainstream sports”.

    Despite ongoing revelations about the Community Max funding, Prime Minister John Key defended it yesterday, saying that overall it had worked.

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  85. Bryla (263 comments) says:

    So it looks like I won that argument then.

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