General Debate 6 March 2011

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mikeysmokes

Yes
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March 6, 2011 9:50am
Inventory2

Deb Webber of Sensing Murder fame knew that there was going to be an earthquake. Why didn’t she ring Bob Parker with a heads-up?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/03/why-didnt-she-say-something.html

Sensing bullshit; that’s what I’m sensing!
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March 6, 2011 9:57am
Sofia

Canterbury, as a region, was one of our most powerful and successful economic regions and in effect underpinned the South Island’s contribution to our national economy.
Consequently when they hurt, we all hurt.
We all agree to support and rebuild at our expense, but we must be very careful of people abusing the earthquake to advance their own ugly little interests.
– JOHN TAMIHERE Sunday News

He would know
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March 6, 2011 10:04am
Pete George

Maybe it’s not surprising Ken Ring has supporters regardless of his lack of predicting credibility, he has credentials when it comes to feeding the conspiracy base:

I asked why he hadn’t bothered to mention that it’s widely known that the current flooding in Queensland has been caused primarily by the La Nina weather pattern in the southern Pacific Ocean. He said:

It’s got nothing to do with La Nina. That’s a name that they dreamt-up in order to identify a new anomaly in the weather to get research funding for, and to issue reports on.

But there’s something even funnier, you couldn’t make this sort of thing up – he used to be a schoolteacher, clown and magician, and he helped conjure up this book:

Pawmistry: How to Read Your Cat’s Paws
“All of the ways of reading your pet presented in Pawmistry are in fact ways of seeing, helping you see what actually has been in front of you all the time”

This quote from the introduction may be an insight into how Ring operates – telling people what they want to hear. For a long time people have yearned to be able to know what the future will bring. He is yet another charlatan who knows how to pander to that.

People who lap up Ring comments like…

The eugenics agenda driven from the UN of the international global warmers, which is akin to the policies of Nazi Germany, which is to reduce human population by creating poverty by halting progress and discouraging economic development in underdeveloped countries is phenomenally disgusting.

…may willingly believe anything he suggests to them. Like, there could possibly be an earthquake somewhere in the ring of fire sometime.
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March 6, 2011 10:07am
Put it away

Anyone who can’t see that predicting something after it happened is worth precisely fuck-all deserves to be scammed by these conmen. I can only hope such people take the 3rd quake prediction seriously and fuck off to Australia and improve the IQ of both countries.
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March 6, 2011 10:11am
side show bob

Pete do you think if I send a nice email to Ken he will give me next week’s lotto numbers ?
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March 6, 2011 10:14am
Chuck Bird

“For a politician, some words are not as carefully chosen as they might be. In talking of earthquake predictions from “moon man” Ken Ring, she suggests sticking a beer bottle in him in a way once made infamous by Labour colleague Trevor Mallard. “And then break it,” she adds.”

The above quote from Lianne Dalziel.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10710403

It would be accurate if the Herald stated that Dalziel was inciting violence against a member of the public. You can be sure if an ACT member said something similar they would be saying that.

It is outrageous for a Member of Parliament to make such an inflammatory statement. What is her excuse? Is she unable to get her medication?

It is unlikely anyone would act on such a statement. But there are nutbars out there who could. I bet if I made such a statement suggesting violence against her or her thug of a husband I would get a visit from the Diplomatic Squad.

This is just another example of a left wing MP who thinks she is above the law.
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March 6, 2011 10:15am
Pete George

No ssb, Ring will only give you about twenty possible numbers for each week for a year, and if the winning numbers come from those in any one week he will have claimed to have predicted correctly.

Chuck, exposing Ding-a-ling-itis is not helped by stupid comments like Dalziel’s.
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March 6, 2011 10:17am
Inventory2

Sideshow Bob asks

Pete do you think if I send a nice email to Ken he will give me next week’s lotto numbers ?

It depends on how much the cheque you send him is for SSB. Perhaps Deb Webber is auditioning to be the female co-leader of NZ First; she’s enough of a chalatan/snake-oil saleswoman.
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March 6, 2011 10:19am
Caleb

i see Contact is putting its price up another 7%, making 15% in as little as a year.

those green sources of energy are really going to help the economy, not to mention the poor.

add the rising fuel costs and associated flow on effects, like increasing the cost of food production…

cant see the economy picking up anytime soon.

time to make some hard decisions National.
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March 6, 2011 10:20am
Sector 7g

Good article here regarding the Founding Principles of the New Zealand National Party.

http://truebluenz.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/new-zealand-national-party-founding-principles-1936/
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March 6, 2011 10:20am
Pete George

Sector 7g – 1936 was a long time and many changes in New Zealand and government ago.
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March 6, 2011 10:24am
eszett

This is just another example of a left wing MP who thinks she is above the law.

You mean like Judith Collins

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10709042

Police Minister Judith Collins said the actions of looters was akin to “people who rob the dead”.

She expected to see the judiciary throw the book at looters.

“I hope they go to jail for a long time – with a cellmate.”

Promoting rape in prison.
Both are unacceptable comments from politicians, but to pretend that it’s just the left is your typical myopic view of the world.
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March 6, 2011 10:28am
Nookin

How about one for the Highlanders then? Three from three and the Bulls at Pretoria to boot.
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March 6, 2011 10:31am
Sector 7g

Boring Pete.

That must be why Labour are still holding firm on their founding principles right?
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March 6, 2011 10:36am
Chuck Bird

“Promoting rape in prison.
Both are unacceptable comments from politicians, but to pretend that it’s just the left is your typical myopic view of the world.”

This has already been discussed on Kiwi Blog on another thread. There could be a number of ways her remark could be interpreted.
She has long promoted 2 prisoners to a cell to save money.

Dalziel’s remark incited violence AND it was for someone’s stating a viewpoint even if it was flakey. Collins was referring to low life commenting a crime.

The two comments are very different.
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March 6, 2011 10:39am
Put it away

Put it away’s Predict Lotto! I predict that the numbers that are within ten numbers either direction from 10 and 30 are likely to come up. It’s coz of the moon. Someone give me money please.
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March 6, 2011 10:43am
side show bob

Pete, damn, looks like I will have to stick to milking cows.

I2, how can I seen a cheque when I don’t have the cash and that would take a lotto win, I believe it’s called catch 22.
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March 6, 2011 10:45am
Inventory2

I agree Chuck; it’s not as though she used the name “Bubba”, or made references to soap. My initial take on Collins’ comment was that she might be referring to remand prisoners getting a bit of “attitude readjustment” from the general prison population, stemming from the old saying about there being honour amongst thieves. I suggest that those on remand for looting will be regarded as lowlifes by the other lags.

It was probably a throwaway line that backfired a bit, but I suspect that a lot of New Zealanders will have, privately at least, thought more of Collins for making it.
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March 6, 2011 10:45am
adze

Interesting TED talk on the moral roots of conservatives and liberals: (associated questionnaire below)

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

http://www.yourmorals.org/explore.php

According to the questionnaire, I endorse some elements of both “liberal” and “conservative” values, something I have long suspected, but never picked up by that politicalcompass thingy which paints me as a left liberal.
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March 6, 2011 10:50am
starboard

“time to make some hard decisions National”

..Bawhahahahahahahaha!!!…why start now ?
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March 6, 2011 10:52am
Put it away

I2 – not so much “honour among thieves”, more like people who’ve done fucked up things themselves find the best way to feel better about themselves is to find someone who’s done something even worse and beat the shit out of them.
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March 6, 2011 10:55am
niggly

Chuck Bird (1,446) Says:

March 6th, 2011 at 10:15 am
“For a politician, some words are not as carefully chosen as they might be. In talking of earthquake predictions from “moon man” Ken Ring, she suggests sticking a beer bottle in him in a way once made infamous by Labour colleague Trevor Mallard. “And then break it,” she adds.”

The above quote from Lianne Dalziel.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10710403

Thanks, just read the Herald article. Fuck that Dalziel is a twat and a waste of space, instead of playing soap box politics why the hell doesn’t she get off her lazy taxpayer funded arse and go sort out her community’s needs with the authorities, roll up her sleeves and get helping by securing the items the community requires.

But noooo, lazy taxpayer funded arse Dalziel knows nothing better than to stand around, whinge and preach to the converted.

Disgusting, instead she is already election campaigning to raise her profile with her constituants … in the midst of an earthquake.

Just like looters, arseholes like Dalziel will happily exploit the earthquake to further her own selfish needs.
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March 6, 2011 11:00am
Nookin

The difference between the two comments is that Collins’ comments were either fortuitously or intentionally equivocal whereas Dalziell’s were unequivocal, crude and totally out of appropriate context. Collins may well have intended to convey the same message (ie a desire that something extremely painful might come about) and there will be those who have a leaning in that direction (me included). There is no wriggle room for Dalziell over her comments. Collins’ quip would have been better left behind closed doors. Dalziell’s quip has no place anywhere. Just thinking out loud.
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March 6, 2011 11:02am
eszett

The two comments are very different.

Yeah, right!
Hypocritical bullshit.
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March 6, 2011 11:03am
malcolm

“I hope they go to jail for a long time…”

Why does Judith Collins need to hope? Can’t she and her government do something other than just hope? You know, like set the laws so the judiciary can’t undermine their intend. Oh that’s right, this government are victims of circumstance – can’t give tax cuts because labour stuffed it up for them, can’t have a vision for growth because it’s too hard. Can’t do this, can’t do that. Just useless.
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March 6, 2011 11:04am
Manolo

Armstrong chastises Double Dipton.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10710236

A politician of Bill English’s calibre should never have got into the pickle he land-ed himself in this week. Normally it just wouldn’t happen. As English and other politicians are fast discovering, however, these are no longer normal times.

The Minister of Finance trapped himself in the old “won’t rule anything in or out” refrain when asked what sacrifices the rest of the country would have to make so the Government could fund its share of the gigantic bill for rebuilding Christchurch.

English’s fuzziness on a couple of sensitive options for raising cash generated the wrong sort of headlines, forcing the Prime Minister to intervene.
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March 6, 2011 11:07am
malcolm

Hell, there’s even a national state of emergency in force. Can’t they shoot a few looters to send a signal?
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March 6, 2011 11:07am
Manolo

That’s what you get for giving interviews to these cultured mags. If you mingle with dogs…

PM’s office complains after photo digitally altered

The Prime Minister’s office has complained to a leading women’s magazine after it digitally altered a picture of John and Bronagh Key for its earthquake edition.

Woman’s Day did a photo shoot with the couple for its Valentine’s Day edition last month, in which Bronagh Key was wearing a silky peacock-blue Helen Cherry top.

Last week, it ran a front-page story headlined “John Key’s message of hope”, with a photo of the couple.
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March 6, 2011 11:11am
Put it away

If Noam Chomsky did a commentary for Fellowship of the Ring…
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2003/04/22fellowship.html
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March 6, 2011 11:56am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

“How about one for the Highlanders then? Three from three and the Bulls at Pretoria to boot.
”
I wonder if my one-eyed Hurricane fan boss will finally give them some credit…………….
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March 6, 2011 11:57am
Offshore_Kiwi

well done pete george. Either willfully or otherwise interpreting the point of the post … As usual. Here it is, for those too stupid or myopic to pick up on the subtlety. The national party started out opposing the labour party and its policies. Had they continued to do so, it would have forced labour to lurch to the right. That national has forgotten its foundations, that they have over the past 3 decades or so tried to be just like labour but with a better wave and nicer teeth, is the main reason new zealand is now completely bankrupt, both economically and socially.

The post on truebluenz provides every reason in the world to not vote for quisling key and his merry band of control freaks.
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March 6, 2011 12:05pm
Offshore_Kiwi

oh yes and malcolm, you wouldn’t need to shoot a few looters. I reckoned just 1 would send a message.
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March 6, 2011 12:16pm
Alan Wilkinson

wrt Ken Ring, there is no doubt that the moon’s gravitational pull has a small impact on earthquake probabilities just as talking on a handheld cellphone has a small impact on accident likelihoods. Both remain very low probabilities.

People like John Campbell ridicule one and hype the other. Bizarre.
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March 6, 2011 12:37pm
MikeG

Has Brownlee got shares in a demolition company?

“Earlier in the day, Earthquake Recovery Minister Gerry Brownlee said most of Christchurch’s 1000 heritage buildings were a danger to lives and should be demolished.

Brownlee said only significant Christchurch heritage buildings such as the cathedral, the Catholic Basilica, the Provincial Chambers and the Art Centre should be retained. ”

The buildings with the highest death toll were not heritage buildings, but Gerry won’t let facts get in the way of a good story.
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March 6, 2011 12:37pm
malcolm

Offshore_Kiwi, Well if there can only be one then I suppose it should be this chap:

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/02/a_quick_photoshop.html

The earthquake is a good opportunity for scum to self-select. In effect this chap is raising his hand and saying “I am utter scum and I will spend the rest of my life ruining the lives of honest people. I have no respect for anyone or anything. Please do something with me”.
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March 6, 2011 12:38pm
Nookin

http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/4736594/TV3-sets-table-for-new-morning-show
I wonder if this means that TV3 perceives a huge void when it comes to the need for intelligent and informative morning comment. I don’t watch TV3 so don’t know Smalley. Will she be any good? Anything would be better than the Playschool mentality spewing from TV1 in the mornings.
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March 6, 2011 12:55pm
Pete George

That national has forgotten its foundations

I’d rather all parties kept re-assessing their priorities at least every electoral cycle based on current issues and conditions. “Opposing Labour” is one of the stupidest policies they could have (“opposing National” seems to be about all Labour can come up with now and it ain’t working). Address each issue as it is today, not dream of impossible ideals from last century.

that they have over the past 3 decades or so tried to be just like labour

Yeah, right. Do you really believe that? That neither follow your extreme wishes does not make them the same, except maybe that share a bit more common sense about pragamatic politics.

new zealand is now completely bankrupt, both economically and socially.

Just a slight exaggeration? If your statements weren’t so far over the top they might have some chance of being seen as credible.
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March 6, 2011 1:03pm
Sector 7g

Boring Pete.

What are Nationals foundations today “after the last electoral cycle” and how do they differ from Labours?
Any examples?
Are you so stupid you cant see that Labours founding principles are now those of both parties “after the last few electoral cycles” and that Nationals founding principles are no where to be seen in NZ politics?

Offshore Kiwis comments are in no way over the top. What they are is credible.
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March 6, 2011 1:16pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Pete, try thinking, for once in your 9,300 comments.

A political party, like a person, needs a moral foundation on which its actions are based. Modern literature calls these ‘Values’. The way we interpret our experiences comes from our Values. Our feelings, our thought processes and as a result, our actions, are based on our Values. If a political party has no Values, it will sway in the breeze much like the National Party does.

The current National government’s Value (singular) appears to be “get elected”. It appears to have absolutely no vision for the country. There is no compelling reason to vote for the Key National administration, other than they are slightly less left, and therefore slightly less odious, than Labour.

I don’t advocate a National Party that simply ‘opposes Labour’. Labour and its principles should be anathema to the National Party. Labour stands for collectivism, big government, punishing the productive and wealthy, and pandering to the lowest common denominator. Labour, apart from the statistical blip of the Douglas years, has stayed true to its Values. A National Party true to its Values would be opposed to all of those things. Not just to oppose them, but because its proposition is the opposite. A National Party true to its Values would never have implemented the policies of this current National administration. Or those of Shipley or Bolger, let alone Muldoon.

Oh and incidentally, while New Zealand may not have been declared Bankrupt it is in PIIGS territory. If someone is borrowing $350 per week to pay for luxuries, they may not be bankrupt, but it sure won’t be long before they’re insolvent. Especially if they are content to sit around on the dole instead of gaining employment.

If a country is borrowing $350 million per week to pay for luxuries (which is what WFF and interest-free student loans are), it will be a very short time indeed before it is insolvent. Especially if it is content to keep doing what it’s been doing instead of looking at ways to reduce expense and increase income (e.g. mining the conservation estate).
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March 6, 2011 1:22pm
Viking2

Our Foreshore and Seabed, for Tribe or Nation ?
By Chris Newman, Auckland

If there ever was a one night stand with John Key, Tariana Turia and Pita Sharples in their MMP bed, then the proposed Foreshore and Seabed Bill would be their bastard offspring and our current Attorney General Chris Finlayson would be the doting midwife. The illegitimacy of their consensual group act lies in the sleight of hand around the crucial legal meaning of “Customary (Marine) Title”. Only those identifying as iwi and hapu can uplift their Customary (Marine) Title from the Court by proving that they have “a longstanding history of exclusive use and occupation” which is meant to go back to 1840. And by what test are the NZ Courts to base their rulings on this new round of Treaty-derived claims? Herein lies the major logical and procedural problem for Mr Finlayson which he has yet to address.

Apparently our PM agrees with his sometime political mistress the Maori party’s assertion that 15% of New Zealanders were denied a legal right as a consequence of the Clark Government’s Foreshore and Seabed Bill. A close examination of this allegation reveals the duplicity hidden in the words. Only those who identify as Maori to the exclusion of their NZ citizenship and shared Kiwi heritage would fit into that category. But that is not 15% of the population. What Tariana means is that our Coastal inheritance was outside the reach of the Treatyists. They demanded the key government to provide them a legislative bridge to access the funding, marshall the paperwork (Wahi Tapu, taniwhas and old fishing stories) to get the Courts to hand over Customary Titles to the treasure trove of the Crown held coastal asset, our nation’s customary and collective inheritance. Their goals are the triumph of tribal aristocracy over our national best interests.

Mr Finlayson and his team have burned the midnight oil, spent heaps of taxpayers’ dollars and figured out a legal strategy with plenty of large red herrings to confuse the public. He is oblivious that the underpinnings of our legal system depend on such well established Judeo-Christian principles as this one; ”there are no more distinctions between Jew and Greek, slave and free, male and female but all of you are one in Christ Jesus” (Paul, Galatians 3:28). Finlayson’s tactic is to usurp 2000 years of historical and legal development.

More at http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18&p=34474#p34474
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March 6, 2011 1:29pm
Pete George

I don’t know and don’t care what National’s founding principles were. Now: What National Stands For

Labour don’t seem to have an equivalent, they just waffle on about history, they are still stuck in their past.

Policies are palaver, people are paramount. Having some principles is fine, but the reality of politics and government is working with others to do what they think is possible, pragmatic and necessary, not try to establish their impossible ideal.

I can see plenty of differences between National and Labour, but I’m not comparing either to the ideals of <1%.
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March 6, 2011 1:31pm
Viking2

Pete; sorry but waffling in the breeze is about a lazy as you can be. Values and principles are what matter and they guide everything you do.
If an organization has no clear set of values and principals how can they exhibit Leadership especially leadership of a country.
Why should anyone follow them or be ruled by unprincipled, valueless leadership?
That’s why Kiwi’s are leaving and have left our country.
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March 6, 2011 1:42pm
Viking2

My New Truck

I bought a new Toyota Landcruiser and returned to the dealer yesterday because I couldn’t get the radio to work.

The salesman explained that the radio was voice activated.

‘Nelson,’ the salesman said to the radio.

The radio replied ‘Ricky or Willie?’

‘Willie!’ he continued and ‘On The Road Again’ came from the speakers.

Then he said ‘Ray Charles!’, and in an instant ‘Georgia On My Mind’ replaced Willie Nelson.

I drove away happy and for the next few days every time I’d say ‘Beethoven,’ I’d get beautiful classical music, and if I said ‘Beatles,’ I’d get one of their songs.

Yesterday, some bloke ran a red light and nearly creamed me, but I swerved in time to avoid him. I yelled ‘Arsehole!’

Immediately the radio responded with a speech by Hone Harawira.

Damn – I LOVE this truck
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March 6, 2011 1:44pm
Alan Wilkinson

NZ Herald today: “SYDNEY – Kiwis rugby league superstar Benji Marshall is being investigated by police after an alleged assault in the early hours of yesterday morning. Marshall’s manager, Martin Tauber, has told Australian media the incident happened after a group of young men directed a string of racist taunts at the league pin-up boy. The taunts included “you black ****” and “**** off back to New Zealand”, claims Tauber. Infuriated, Marshall retaliated and hit one of his alleged tormenters in the face, said Tauber. The scene of the fight was a fast food restaurant in George Street in Sydney’s CBD.”

Yet again the wrong person winds up in court.
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March 6, 2011 1:49pm
Viking2

Yep, but I’ll bet the other guy has a sore nose.
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March 6, 2011 1:51pm
Sector 7g

Boring Pete.

Can you tell me some examples of what is different now under a National government that wouldnt have happened under a Labour government?

Waffling and linking to what they stand for is irrelevant if there are no examples of it happening.

[DPF: Tax Cuts, Three Strike Laws, RMA Reform, DPB Work Testing, fewer backroom public servants, better tertiary education funding focus, private prisons, the Auckland Council, fibre to the home project, Transmission Gully, finishing the Auckland motorway netwroks, legal aid reform, allowing tenants to buy their state houses, national standards]
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March 6, 2011 1:51pm
Shunda barunda

Yesterday I listened to a Geologist lecture given after the first Canterbury earthquake.
This fulla was saying it is almost impossible for a neighbouring fault to be ruptured by a previous earthquake (que Tui billboard).

Also turns out that the 7.1 was likely a series of 4 simultaneous earthquakes on 4 different fault lines.

They knew all this before the 6.3 and made little attempt to warn anyone even when they sat there and watched the after shock sequence heading for the city and getting shallower as it went.
They are collecting some great data, perhaps the problem is in the interpretation.

Ken Ring 1
GNS 0
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March 6, 2011 2:08pm
Manolo

One of the great mysteries of Kiwiblog has been Peter George’s transformation from a Labour man to a a rather subdued and muted Key (and National Party) supporter.

Over several months he has slowly shifted his position, as if we needed furhter confirmation Labour-lite is nothing but another incarnation of socialist Labour. The names of the political leaders may be different, but their underlying ideology is the same.

The final destination for our country, bankruptcy, is certain. It might take longer to arrive at under Key’s feeble government but he appears determined to take us there.
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March 6, 2011 2:11pm
Shunda barunda

Over several months he has slowly shifted his position, as if we needed furhter confirmation Labour-lite is nothing but another incarnation of socialist Labour. The names of the political leaders may be different, but their underlying ideology is the same.

NZ has a better mix and application of political ideology than most other nations, we are doing better than many.
The fact that we actually have respect for the individual and workers rights is probably why we have done so well.
What nation should we base ourselves on then? The USA? yeah friggin right, they have something to learn from us going by the way that American owned businesses in this country are quickly starved of innovation and loose the best staff within 18 months.
We have problems for sure, but heading off into right wing fantasy land will only rot the guts out of the place.
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March 6, 2011 2:25pm
Nookin

V2
I had a mate with a truck like that. He loved it too until he saw a pig flapping its wings overhead. His affection went out the door when he said “well fuck me!”
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March 6, 2011 2:25pm
capitald

On a completely different note: TV3 is starting up their breakfast program again….

I absolutely can’t stand Petra on TV1 Breakfast, she is so clumsy when interviewing on any subject that requires ANY background knowledge. She has ZERO ability to go in hard on a subject, or to challenge the facts someone is relying on. I’m delighted that TV3 has launched a new breakfast program. Goodbye Breakfast… haven’t watched you in ages, and won’t be returning. Whoever hired Petra needs the sack.
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March 6, 2011 2:31pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Shunda, you & Pete are not just part of the problem, you are the problem. The right is not represented at all in the Parliament at the moment, and New Zealand as a result is sliding further to the left, and closer to insolvency.

Until the Right at least gains a voice, forcing politicians to deal with the very real issues facing the country instead of just smiling & waving, New Zealand’s slide downwards will continue.
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March 6, 2011 2:38pm
Nookin

Capitald
Agree. See above @ 12.55pm
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March 6, 2011 2:39pm
nickb

In my opinion National have been a massive disappointment ever since they assumed office.

Although in John Key we finally have a leader with some integrity the National Party as a whole seems like a rudderless, directionless ship content to drift in a sea of mediocrity and empty platitudes about catching up with Australia, creating jobs, growth etc.

In reality National has no ideas on how to do any such thing and will merely slow the rate of government growth, spending and taxation (if that).

How loudly did National protest over the affordability of WFF and interest free student loans in opposition? And now it has discovered it likes the roominess and comfort of the Cabinet Office and it has mysteriously changed its rhetoric.

Watch as our wages and standard of living keep slipping further and further behind Austalia,s. Watch also for another mass exodus over the next few years. I know for a fact that most of my friends and family are either there already or considering a move. National’s ineptness will give them further reason to leave.
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March 6, 2011 2:40pm
nickb

Shunda, you & Pete are not just part of the problem, you are the problem. The right is not represented at all in the Parliament at the moment, and New Zealand as a result is sliding further to the left, and closer to insolvency.

Until the Right at least gains a voice, forcing politicians to deal with the very real issues facing the country instead of just smiling & waving, New Zealand’s slide downwards will continue.

Exactly! Nothing makes me laugh more when people say “its only National’s first term, this is about gaining trust, watch them make huge changes in the 2nd” etc etc.

Utterly clueless.
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March 6, 2011 2:42pm
Shunda barunda

Shunda, you & Pete are not just part of the problem, you are the problem.

So says kiwiblogs most prominent yanky economic vales sympathiser.
Stay offshore dude, your values will be to NZ as a cancer is to a healthy body.
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March 6, 2011 2:50pm
nickb

We have problems for sure, but heading off into right wing fantasy land will only rot the guts out of the place.

Our country has been in left wing fantasy land for most of the period from 1945-the present day, and how are we doing? Record crime, welfare dependency, government spending, and government as a % of GDP?
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March 6, 2011 2:51pm
nickb

Go back to your left wing circle jerk at frogblog, shunda.
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March 6, 2011 2:52pm
Shunda barunda

NZ is not a right wing country, never has been.
Please tell me which nation we should model ourselves on, where is this mythical right wing paradise we should so long to be like.

Oh that’s right, it doesn’t exist.
Pipe dreams for pipe dreamers, at least the left actually smoke something fist before they come up with there bullshit ideas.
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March 6, 2011 2:55pm
Shunda barunda

[DPF: Tax Cuts, Three Strike Laws, RMA Reform, DPB Work Testing, fewer backroom public servants, better tertiary education funding focus, private prisons, the Auckland Council, fibre to the home project, Transmission Gully, finishing the Auckland motorway netwroks, legal aid reform, allowing tenants to buy their state houses, national standards]

Just like Labour?
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March 6, 2011 2:57pm
reid

NZ is not a right wing country, never has been.

Up till Lange National was considered the natural party of govt because it had been in power much more often and longer than Labour since the fifties. As the voter base in the cities became more numerous than the rural voters and the electorates were re-worked accordingly, the urban centres took over as being the main battleground.

It’s no accident that farmers mostly support National because they’re self-employed business people and thus have direct experience and understanding of what works and what doesn’t. When you look at Liarbore’s support base and the fact those people now hold as much if not more power than the self-employed, it’s little wonder why we are where we are.

Anyone who doesn’t think this country is left-leaning and becoming worse over time, is delusional.

Rather than modeling ourselves on a country, I’d pick the best bits from various and marry them all up. e.g. use the Celtic Tiger model in the economy, use the techniques from whichever country has the best educational outcomes, etc.
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March 6, 2011 3:06pm
Offshore_Kiwi

“NZ is not a right wing country, never has been.”

Get a clue you fucking moron. New Zealand was a right wing country for much of its history. Correlate the start of New Zealand’s lurch leftwards with the start of its slide towards the bottom of the OECD economic charts and you’ll find something interesting: they both happened on almost exactly the same date.

The only pit-stops on New Zealand’s journey to the bottom of the OECD charts have occurred when the Douglas reforms kicked in, and when the Richardson reforms kicked in.

Like I said, get a fucking clue.

[DPF: and 20 more demerits to reach 100 and a one week holiday]
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March 6, 2011 3:12pm
Shunda barunda

Like I said, like a cancer invading a system of values that made this nation what it was.

We have never been a right wing nation, all of our values were about vigorously shaking off the class systems and failings of the mother land.
And like a cancer seeks to invade, the extreme right simply see a nice juicy apple ready for exploitation.

They, like the extreme left, can see the value of this great land, but that is as far as their understanding goes. All they really want is to exploit it for their own selfish ends and to hell with anyone in their way.
I love this country and the values it was founded on.
Piss off you right and left wing fanatics, you are both as destructive as each other and a cancer to our great nation.
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March 6, 2011 3:20pm
Offshore_Kiwi

Shunda, your labelling me ‘extreme right’ shows you have no clue about the political spectrum. Your myopic leftism is the lens through which you see everything, and labelling my moderate Conservativism ‘extreme’ simply proves my earlier points about New Zealand (although I’ll go right ahead and assume you will profess to have no idea what I’m talking about)
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March 6, 2011 3:28pm
reid

I wish I’d taken this course when I was at uni.
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March 6, 2011 3:33pm
Shunda barunda

Shunda, your labelling me ‘extreme right’ shows you have no clue about the political spectrum.

I just had a look at your website, it’s there for all to see.
I also see you trying to make Christianity your ‘bitch’ for right wing reform, typical of American style corruption of the message of Christ for selfish, self centred gain.
You are the one that needs education on what NZ is or isn’t, you don’t appear to be even living here.
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March 6, 2011 3:50pm
reid

A lengthy and scathing article about Tony Blair’s penchant for African dictators.
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March 6, 2011 4:12pm
reid

Who is George Soros?
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March 6, 2011 4:18pm
jaba

where is philu?
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March 6, 2011 4:29pm
malcolm

[DPF: …RMA Reform, …]

What? Where?
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March 6, 2011 4:34pm
Viking2

[DPF: Tax Cuts, Three Strike Laws, RMA Reform, DPB Work Testing, fewer backroom public servants, better tertiary education funding focus, private prisons, the Auckland Council, fibre to the home project, Transmission Gully, finishing the Auckland motorway netwroks, legal aid reform, allowing tenants to buy their state houses, national standards]

Tax cuts; negated by tax rises in various guises.

Three Strike Laws. MMM Well Act policy watered down by the Nats.

RMA reform. Really, if you call that reform I guess that explains the rest of the paralysis.

DPB work testing. Always was available and is merely carrying out longterm policy more vigorously

Fewer Public Servants. Maybe in Wgtn but stll leaves a lot of other area’s without proper service. eg HNZ.

Better education targeting. Still getting paid for bums on seats rather than getting people to work. Will continue until minimum wages are disposed off for young people.(which you acknowledge).

Private Prisons. None built yet and simply management changes. Window dressing.,but in the right direction.

Auckland Council; Well, Rodney’s work that was compromised by the Nats. because they didn’t have the principles to stick to good principles. One wonders what the result would have been if it had been handed to Nick Smith to do.

Fibre to the home; Not a single piece of fibre in the ground that wouldn’t have been there anyway. Indeed it stopped the development here in Tauranga. Tga has the best non fibre network of anywhere in NZ. Competition is a wonderful thing and why does the taxpayer have to do this? Tga also has a council driven fibre network.

Transmission Gully. Given that it was a National Coalition with Labour that turned down the Americans who wanted to build it during the war its hard to say which party sbhould take the blame for 70 years of neglect. I guess things happen in their time and I have no doubt that if Helen thought it would have won here another term she would have pushed it through. Unfortunately for Wgtn residents they didn’t have a Winston to stand up for their area. We did so we got our bridge although we still are the only area in NZ to build and run its own toll roads under legislation that was screwed by the Nats.
Finishing thew Auckland Networks. Well supposedly these things are controlled by an independent Roading Authority or are you saying that the Nats. are or have continued to engage in pork barrel local projects?

Legal Aid Reform. Nope.Fail. Why should taxpayers front for criminals and Maori tribal Claims?
Further the person who wanted better reforms is now quitting in disgust at the lack of being able to achieve change. Just like Clarkson did.(But he will never tell you that.)

Allowing tenants to buy their state houses. Well had a friend who worked for HNZ last time this was done. Spent hours and hours talking to her Tenants about buying their houses. Most were simply not interested despite being better off both short and longterm. Some bought them and resold them and made a money from them. We will wait and see how successful this really is.

National Standards. I admire Tolley for her efforts with this. One of the few Nat Mp’s to show a bit of backbone and do what she said she was going to do. Early days yet but in reality the only way to improve education in this country is to give the customers of that education back their money and allow them to chose. That way that Nats would get rid of their biggest ball and chain. A pass so far.

Not a lot to crow about in reality.
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March 6, 2011 4:38pm
Shunda barunda

Did anyone just feel that?

My guess is a deep, reasonably large quake in the middle of the South Island somewhere (going by the jolt and then a long rolling motion)
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March 6, 2011 4:54pm
starboard

“where is philu?”

..the drugged loon has re-established himself as “paws”…
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March 6, 2011 5:04pm
Inventory2

@ Shunda

# Reference Number: 3474473
# NZDT: Sun, Mar 6 2011 4:43 pm
# Magnitude: 4.9
# Depth: 12 km
# Details: 20 km east of Kaikoura
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March 6, 2011 5:14pm
Manolo

[DPF: … RMA Reform,]

What RMA reform? Nick Smith has done nothing or bugger all about this millstone on NZ’s neck.
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March 6, 2011 5:24pm
nickb

Good post at 4.38 viking, was going to post something along those lines but couldnt be bothered lol
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March 6, 2011 5:34pm
Shunda barunda

RMA reform for right wing zealots = completely unrestricted exploitation of whatever and wherever they want.

The 2 most visible right wing local body politicians in my area (both gold miners) are a good example of the model they would like to follow, it basically revolves around “if you can get away with it, do it”.

Anti NZ values.
Anti long term prosperity.
Anti community.

Totally short sighted and only beneficial to the few.

Go to Australia and stay there, they have lots of holes for you to dig in.
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March 6, 2011 5:42pm
Viking2

Entitlitis.

Residents angry at portaloo thefts

Sunday, 6, Mar, 2011 1:45PM

Some people are stealing the community portaloos dotted around Christchurch.

They’re apparently putting them in their back yards as they don’t want to share.

The problem surfaced at a public meeting held at Cowles Stadium.

People attending say the council has issued maps showing where staff have put the portaloos but when they go to many of those places the loos aren’t there.

A series of community meetings are being held in Christchurch today. The first one had to be held inside because of rain.
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March 6, 2011 5:49pm
Viking2

Shanda, that’s your opinion. Some of us would rather face reality and accept that we need to make money to pay the bills. Either that or the Govt. has to stop robbing those that work. Takes your pick.
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March 6, 2011 5:51pm
Viking2

Earthquake hits Treasury GDP predictions
Last updated 14:39 06/03/2011

The Christchurch earthquake will knock gross domestic product growth back by 1.5 percentage points, Treasury estimates but predicts a silver lining in 2012 as rebuilding gets underway.

“We estimate that GDP growth will be around 1.5 percent points lower in the 2011 calendar year solely as a result of the February earthquake,” Treasury said in its monthly economic indicators for February.

So that’s us stuffed this year!
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March 6, 2011 5:55pm
nickb

shunda you idiot, do you know anything about the RMA process?

It is the furthest thing from environmental protection you could possibly get. It is more like a complete bureaucratic nightmare that only a politician could think up, and it is also one of the main reasons for housing affordability being the way it is.
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March 6, 2011 5:57pm
Pete George

Manolo at 2:11 pm

One of the great mysteries of Kiwiblog has been Peter George’s transformation from a Labour man to a a rather subdued and muted Key (and National Party) supporter.

Over several months he has slowly shifted his position, as if we needed furhter confirmation Labour-lite is nothing but another incarnation of socialist Labour. The names of the political leaders may be different, but their underlying ideology is the same.

More of a mystery is the in-accurateness of your claim. I’ve never been “a Labour man”. When I started posting here I was not in any way a fan of Labour, I was very disappointed with their efforts in opposition and still am. I didn’t support Labour winning the last election, I barely supported them winning the 2006 election.

I’m not a National Party supporter either. I think National are the best party at the moment to be leading a coalition government, they’re doing some things right, have made a few missteps, and aren’t looking and planning ahead boldly enough.

I’m a supporter of better government, better quality politicians in all parties, and more focus by politicians on the good of the country rather than petty partying.

I think Key has been a refreshing change of politician and PM, he has started quite carefully and cautiously, but I think now, having had time to get into the job, and especially having now to deal with Christchurch, the next couple of years (probably) will prove whether he ends up having done an ok job or if he steps up and can become a great leader. The country could do with the latter. – but that doesn’t mean privatising everything, removing all benefits and most public servants and locking up all criminals permanently.

It needs a bold balance.
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March 6, 2011 6:18pm
MT_Tinman

Pete, I hope you’re correct.

Experience shows that National are in competition with the other lot for how left they can go more often than not.

In fact the only right leaning govts in my lifetime have been the ’84-’87 Labour and the ’90-93 Nats.

I have my doubts
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March 6, 2011 6:32pm
paws

Sigh is the above the best there is in comments,general debate.sigh
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March 6, 2011 6:35pm
starboard

“Some people are stealing the community portaloos dotted around Christchurch.
They’re apparently putting them in their back yards as they don’t want to share.
The problem surfaced at a public meeting held at Cowles Stadium”

..if the problem surfaced at a public meeting held at Cowles Stadium I would say the portloo theft problem is on the eastside of Christchurch. Labour stronghold. You see them moaning on TV news how they have nothing …and want more..even though they are benefiting the most from Joe Publics generosity. Theres even a marae in the middle of the neighbourhood.
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March 6, 2011 7:13pm
Pete George

Offshore_Kiwi at 3:28 pm

Shunda, your labelling me ‘extreme right’ shows you have no clue about the political spectrum. Your myopic leftism is the lens through which you see everything, and labelling my moderate Conservativism ‘extreme’ simply proves my earlier points about New Zealand

A point like this?

Offshore_Kiwi at at March 5, 2011 at 23:13

In fact, I believe New Zealand is now too far gone to recover without revolution. It would almost be tempting to vote for the Bradford/Mmmmmccaarten/Hatfield Communist Party of New Zealand party to hasten the day.

You don’t sound moderate or conservative. Again.
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March 6, 2011 7:30pm
Rodders

Aside from the Tax Cuts, Three Strike Laws, RMA Reform, DPB Work Testing, fewer backroom public servants, better tertiary education funding focus, private prisons, the Auckland Council, fibre to the home project, Transmission Gully, finishing the Auckland motorway networks, legal aid reform, allowing tenants to buy their state houses and national standards, what have the Nats ever done for us? 😉
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March 6, 2011 8:35pm
Jeremy Harris

Wanna read a post about the history of the National Party and what is was actually formed to represent..? This is a good start:

http://truebluenz.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/new-zealand-national-party-founding-principles-1936/
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March 6, 2011 8:35pm
Shunda barunda

I know I am right because I get called a rabid left winger here and a rabid right winger on frogblog 🙂
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March 6, 2011 8:53pm
Guy Fawkes

Sb – Maybe the answer is that you just have “La rage”?
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March 6, 2011 10:37pm
Shunda barunda

Maybe.

I certainly have no respect for either extreme.
What is the point identifying oneself as either left or right? isn’t that just declaring oneself irrational?
Perhaps the problem with politics is that only a true, genuine leader is able to walk that middle ground, the rest of us would do well to remember the need for left and right and stop trying to destroy each other all the time.
Perhaps this is why Christianity became so strong, that Jesus fella seems to have got the balance about right.
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March 6, 2011 11:10pm
reid

What is the point identifying oneself as either left or right?

So one can know who the real enemy is Shunda.

Crikey.

Don’t you know anything?

Seriously, discerning good people from bad people isn’t politics, it’s human nature 101. Until people start calling bullshit on people like Helen Clark, Tony Blair, George Bush and Barack Obama: i.e. seeing that despite the fact their “professed” politics are what they agree with, they are in fact complete arseholes, things will never change.
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March 7, 2011 12:00am
jcuknz

One GIG Broadband for $26 a month? Then go to Hong Kong ….
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/business/06digi.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=tha26
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March 7, 2011 9:15am
Manolo

Perhaps this is why Christianity became so strong, that Jesus fella seems to have got the balance about right.

Yes. Now check where he ended up. 🙂
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March 7, 2011 9:35am

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