The nonsense about prejudicing a police investigation

March 27th, 2011 at 11:48 am by David Farrar

keeps repeating that he didn’t take any action against Hughes, as it would prejudice the Police investigation. This is frankly a bullshit argument (and also against what he has argued himself in the past). I’m amazed the media do not challenge him more on this point.

John Key sacked Richard Worth, while he was under investigation by the Police over a sexual offence complaint. This did not interfere with the Police investigation. And in fact Richard Worth was not charged by the Police.

Likewise it is entirely common for an employer to take disciplinary action against an employee in regard to alleged criminal offending, without waiting for charges to be laid.

Helen Clark took action against several of her MPs, who were under Police investigation. And again this did not interfere with the Police investigation (her staff buring forged paintings did, but that is another matter).

The panel on Q+A is flailing Goff for his inaction. It’s almost brutal.

For the sake of any future party leaders, here’s the general guide to how a party leader should handle allegations against an MP of this nature.

  1. When the MP first tells you, immediately bring in a witness to your conversation – probably your chief of staff
  2. Do not make any commitments to the MP. Tell them that you need to gather pertinent information before you make a decision.
  3. Tell the MP that you want them to tell the Chief of Staff everything that happened. Warn them that they must be 100% truthful, no matter how embarrassing, and that if they omit any pertinent details, then they will have lost your confidence and will be sacked.
  4. The CoS interviews the MP. The MP should firstly be asked to detail what happened from their perspective, and also what the complainant is alleging. If they have been interviewed by the Police (as Hughes was), then they will be fully aware of what the allegations are.
  5. The MP should also be asked what witnesses, if any, there are to some or all of the incident.
  6. If possible the CoS should talk to some of the witnessees if they are friendly to your party – ie other MPs, staff, activists.
  7. The CoS then reports back to the Leader with two scenarios – the “best case” scenario of everything the MP has told you is true, and the “worst case” scenario being that everything alleged is true.
  8. The CoS should also report on how many people probably know of the incident, which will give you an idea of how likely it is the incident will become public – or more realisticaly simply how long it will take.
  9. The Leader then looks at the best case scenario. Assume the MP’s version of events is 100% correct. Ask yourself whether even their version of events is survivable. In the Hughes case, it would be “Regardless of consent, can you politically endure an incident where a naked 18 year old, less than three months out of school, ran naked out of the house of your deputy leader at 5 am after going home with your chief whip after ten hours of drinking”
  10. If it is clear it is not survivable, then you discuss exit strategies wiht the MP.
  11. If the MPs version of events is survivable, then you look at the worst case scenario - are the allegations against your MP so bad, that they couldn’t do their job until the Police decide whether to charge or not. If the MP is accussed of murder, rape or other extremely serious crimes, then you have them step down until the Police make a decision.
  12. If the allegations against the MP are not the worst type of criminal offending, but more “minor” offences such as assault, then it may not be necessary to have them step down. However you would probably urge the MP to front-foot the issue, rather than keep it quiet until the media find out.
  13. Once the Leader has the report from their Chief of Staff, they should also brief appropriate people on what has happened and the leader’s proposed course of action. This would normally be the Deputy Leader, Chief Whip and Party President.

As far as I can tell Goff did none of this. They just sat on it for three weeks and hoped it would go away.

Note that nothing in the above involves the Leader having to make a judgement on who is correct – the MP or the complainant. It is all about just considering the best and worst case outcomes.

Tags: , ,

107 Responses to “The nonsense about prejudicing a police investigation”

  1. tvb (4,240 comments) says:

    I totally agree with you on this. Any police investigation into a public figure is going to leak. The surprising thing is Goff and King managed to keep a lid on this for as long as they did. There are many many police investigations that are conducted in a blaze of publicity. They have to be because the police want the assistance of the media to help them with the inquiry. The police have well established procedures for dealing with such cases. As of yet we do not know the nature of the complaint, we do not know the name of the complainant though it is widely known. There is nothing unusual here. Goff is covering his tracks because he is on deep trouble over his handling of this and everyone knows it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. tvb (4,240 comments) says:

    I do not agree with your approach. I think the MP should be asked about the allegations against him. He/she should be asked if a criminal complaint has been made. They should be asked if the have been interviewed by the Police. If yes then they should be stood down immediately. Then wait. If police charges are laid then depending on how serious the MP should resign but should also be removed from the Ministry. Going into the complaint, asking for confessions is going too far and risks drawing the PM’s office into the investigation. And if police witnesses are being spoken to then there a big risk the PM could be accused of directly influencing what people may wish to tell the Police. What then – the Chief of Staff facing charges of obstruction of Justice??? Be careful, be very careful.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    “The panel on Q+A is flailing Goff for his inaction. It’s almost brutal”

    The Paul Holmes interview with Phil Goff wasn’t “almost.” It was a disgrace.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Bobbie black (507 comments) says:

    No one will care about the actual criminal case.

    My money is on acquittal.

    Trial by TVNZ has already taken place and his leader has abandoned him.

    Game over.

    By the way, Paul Holmes that bumbling hedgehog with a dlislike of coconuts, he is still on TV?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. metcalph (1,401 comments) says:

    The real question IMO is when did Goff find out about the nude complainant? It’s that which forced him to accept Hughes resignation and I am astounded that he thought he could keep the whole thing quiet for three weeks if he knew that detail. Hughes must have known from the search warrant or at the very least from the clothes left in his room (assuming a charitable interpretation of what went on) and King should have damn well known because it was her house FFS!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Bobbie black (507 comments) says:

    Paul Holmes – if there was ever an example as to why radio-talk back hosts should never be taken seriously, he is it.

    Not a great reflection on the journalistic talent level in NZ, as if we need another reminder after the sacking of Paul and the hiring of petra and coreen.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. tvb (4,240 comments) says:

    My two posts are not contradictory. I think Goff’s statement about prejudicing an investigation is a nonsence. But I do NOT agree with you bureaucratic list of liittle rules on how to handle it. It is surprisingly naive and dangerous. I hope your advice is NOT taken. Fortunately Wayne Eggleston is a lawyer and will avoid like the plague getting right into police business asking for confessions and speaking to Police witnesses.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. metcalph (1,401 comments) says:

    No one will care about the actual criminal case.

    Simply because even if one presumes the best case scenario is true, Hughes has shown rather poor behaviour and his subsequent “I have done nothing wrong” attitude indicates either desperate bluster or a Clayton Weatherstonesque level of self-righteousness.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. metcalph (1,401 comments) says:

    Tvb, the bureaucratic list if little rules happens to be following a good principal known as “procedural fairness”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Here is a simpler version of how it should have played out:

    1. When the MP first tells you, immediately bring in a witness to your conversation – probably your chief of staff.

    2. As the MP burbles out a semi-coherent explanation, quietly mull over the implications of bringing Labour’s own Dame Edna Everidge back in to parliament on the list.

    3. When the MP gets to the bit about a nude boy running around Hataitai at 5am, decide that Tizard is by far the lesser of two evils and sack him on the spot.

    4. Then kick him in the nuts, because that is how an 18 year old girl would have resolved the original issue.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. JC (932 comments) says:

    Something that struck me a couple of days ago was.. are Phil and Annette really committed to the upcoming election?

    The above list of “to do’s”, or something like them are part of any experienced politicians’ grab bag, and not doing them suggests a lack of interest in the future. Nor do I buy the explanation that Phil let friendship cloud his judgment, because again the lack of a procedure was guaranteed to kill off Hughes’ future quicker than anything.

    For some reason Phil let this happen, and that suggests to me that he’s no longer committed to Labour and the election.

    JC

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Could have been entrapment, could have been the ADULT getting caught stealing stuff from Hughes’ house after going to the shower. Who knows.

    I do agree that Goff should have had suspended from his post, immediately and until a police investigation had been undertaken. IMO Goff has shown that he lacks the steel to lead at this level.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Pete George (23,270 comments) says:

    Johanssen said on Q+A that he had heard of the Hughes thing by about the 12th March. So word was already around by then.

    [DPF: I understand that it was "all around" Vic for some days before it went public]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. metcalph (1,401 comments) says:

    Could have been entrapment, could have been the ADULT getting caught stealing stuff from Hughes’ house after going to the shower. Who knows.

    So where did he hide the stuff that he stole? The same orifice that you happen to be talking from?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    BTW – i think that a Parker-Cunliffe combo would be a much more serious threat to National than Goff-King.

    If you think about it, New Zealand hasn’t had a truly left-wing government since Norm Kirk died. The gap between rich and poor has continued to grow for the last 30 years, and mum and pop are getting sick of it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    I don’t know how many of you have talked to Parker – but he is a very conscientious and passionate man. I believe that he has the fire in his belly that Goff (Key-lite) lacks.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Pete George (23,270 comments) says:

    The non-prejudicing line came across as a carefully crafted attempt to get some sympathy and approval. It would have been far more credible if it was used immediately the story broke, and also immediately the resignation was accepted.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. DeepScience (74 comments) says:

    tvb…

    “I totally agree with you on this.”
    “I do not agree with your approach.”
    “asking for confessions is going too far and risks drawing the PM’s office into the investigation.”

    Sort of contradictory and last I looked Goff wasn’t the PM.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    magic bullet – living in an echo chamber too much mate. Moving to the left is not going to improve Labour’s position – the country is currently moving to the right after 3 terms under the left. All politicians know that the answer is the chase the centre – you have to push your opposition off the centre. Goff in theory can do that, Parker can’t.

    There is some evidence that you can tack to your core to build again, and then tack back to the centre. Brash was an example of this, and Abbott maybe the same. But neither managed to win, and it’s arguable with Brash that the recovery was largely just cycles, not his politics – and ultimately if someone a bit more electable had been in the seat, they might have won the election. Abbott, there is more argument that the centrist before him (Turnbull) achieved no traction, and until Abbott started acting like an opposition they had no progress. Jury is out – he didn’t get elected is what you can say for sure.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    paul -the gap between rich and poor did not close under Clark. After 20 years of neoliberalism growing the gap between rich and poor, you would think that a genuinely left government would have closed it after 9 years in power. But the 5th Labour government didn’t so it can hardly be called a left wing government.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Also – policy can make a huge difference. You do not have to push your opposition off the center ground. Say if Parker rolled Goff – he could campaign on $20,000 tax free threshold – delivering huge gains to lower and middle-income earners. Sure – Key could go on about a “north of 50″ tax cut, but he has no credibility there any more.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Matt (224 comments) says:

    magic bullet: For many the gap in fact increased – about the distance from Auckland to Sydney

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. jaba (2,093 comments) says:

    Parker as PM of New Zealand .. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh As with Gaffe, he maybe a nice guy and maybe smart but the thought of the biggest fidget I have ever seen have photo shoots with the shakers and movers of the world as our leader gives me he shivers.
    I thought the Holmes interview became a little manic .. similar to John Campbell’s interview with Ken Ring. I don’t blame him in a way in that he tried to stop Gaffe from trotting out the very lame police investigation line.
    The bit about Little is the most telling .. it seems they are not friends.
    If I was Gaffe, I would fill up my motorbike with gas, take a backpack will of steak, sausages, onion with tomato sauce and ride to New Plymouth for a BBQ with Andrew Little .. um, is Little living in NP yet or is he waiting for his parachute to be delivered?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. wat dabney (3,716 comments) says:

    Goff also waffled about a presumption of innocence being a reason for doing nothing about Hughes.

    He completely fails to understand that presumption of innocence applies only to the actions of the state; everyone else should (and does) apply simple common sense.

    How can a politician – someone who would embody the coercive power of the state – fail to understand this fundamental doctrine? But you can be sure many others are equally clueless.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    mb>I don’t know how many of you have talked to Parker

    I’m politically aware and genuinely had no idea what Parker even looked like until I checked on the internet. He looks vaguely familiar, but I doubt I’d recognise him in the street. Wkipedia tells me he was beaten in Otago by someone called Jacqui Dean and I hadn’t even heard of her. She in turn was unsuccessful standing for mayor of a town that isn’t named but might be Oamaru.

    How can I man so grey and impact-free that he he comes out third in a competition between a mayor of Oamaru, an anonymous woman, and Parker consider himself to be Prime Ministerial material?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    jaba – Brash looked out of sorts on camera too, and we all know there was nothing between Nat and Lab in 2005.

    The public can warm to goofy leaders. Both of the Bush presidents are also examples. For Bush senior – time had a cover story announcing “Whimp President” just after he won the presidency, and well, his son was just a bumbling buffoon for all 8 years.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. metcalph (1,401 comments) says:

    But the 5th Labour government didn’t [close the gaps between the rich and the poor] so it can hardly be called a left wing government.

    Or more likely leftwing policies are fucking useless in resolving wealth inequality.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. metcalph (1,401 comments) says:

    I don’t know how many of you have talked to Parker – but he is a very conscientious and passionate man.

    I dunno about passionate but I had to laugh about conscientious. He cut corners in his business affairs and was damn lucky not to be done for breaches of the company act.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    jDavid – it’s a different game at the top. It’s more about having a good team around the leader then the leader being a master statesman these days. It’s all about media management. Key is a classic example. He looked like a rabbit caught in the headlights during 2006 interviews. But how things have changed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    I’m intrigued – what is the source of your general guide?

    From what I gather, Goff described this as a caucus issue which suggests he discussed it, and ‘justiifies’ why Little was not involved. As for sitting on it – in light of his evident double-standard vis a viz Worth’s case – this is not a good look. However, on point 12, do we know what advice he gave Hughes? My point being if we are holding Goff’s leadership style up as justification he should go, this circumstance, given teh people in Labour is much more barbed. I think he will survive this.

    [DPF: the source of my general guide is observation]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. BeaB (2,080 comments) says:

    I think the Labour caucus has become a cosy little club where they all sit and sneer with great hilarity at their own cleverness at the Tories and forget they are meant to be mounting an opposition.

    So now they are all so sad about their wittle fwend Darren instead of wondering what the hell has happened to their party that one of their so-called leaders could do something so bloody stupid it beggars belief.

    And Phil just flapped. And didn’t even let Little know! Because he thought the cosy caucus was all that mattered.

    I thought Holmes did a pretty good job – always a victory for the interviewer when the interviewee starts attacking him. But, as you say, plenty of police investigations are carried out in the media spotlight and thiis one could have been too with Darren lying low at home and all his mates bringing him muffins to cheer him up.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. Rex Widerstrom (5,327 comments) says:

    In the Hughes case, it would be “Regardless of consent, can you politically endure an incident where a naked 18 year old, less than three months out of school, ran naked out of the house of your deputy leader at 5 am after going home with your chief whip after ten hours of drinking”

    Oh, and did we mention he was naked… I mean, totally without any clothes on?!11!!!1111

    And how much better does “three months out of school” sound than “two years past the age of consent”, eh? And “five hours of drinking”, well… musta held him down and poured it into him through one of those funnels.

    Hey, do you think maybe Ede or someone could see if he was ever in the Scouts? Coz then he could be referred to as “the naked boyscout”…

    Nah, not much spin there, then.

    An 18 year old man – old enough to sign up and be sent to Afghanistan – decided to go on a drinking binge; a not uncommon activity amongst people his age. Quite what happened next no one knows for sure. It’s certainly apparent that Hughes was an idiot, and handled a delicate situation (well getting someone you’ve just met into bed is always a delicate situation) with all the finesse Parekura Horomia wolfing down a Big Mac.

    Then Goff slipped in the special sauce and fell flat on his arse. That’s quite enough to call into question the judgment of both without having to reort to “OMG a nekkid boy!!!” histrionics.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. jaba (2,093 comments) says:

    Mbullet .. Brash did have a terrible TV image .. looked an absolute clutz BUT was/is a very smart man as shown in his previous job. What did Parker do before entering politics that was inspirational/impressive? Reading comments above, he was a david nobody.
    Brash just missed out on the top job, even though he had a poor TV image, because of the Labour Parties red herring over the Exclusive Brethren. If it wasn’t for that, the failing Labour Govt would have been given the arse back then.
    I was amused when Gaffe was asked about Labours ratings and he brought up Bill English’s poor rating back in ’02. mm, Bill got his arse kicked so not a good comparison to make.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. dave (986 comments) says:

    I’ve described Goff’s leadership as a shambles. Labour supporters, MPs and the public deserve better.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Viking2 (11,242 comments) says:

    Beab, have you any idea at all of what an interviewers role should be.
    IMHO its to ask questions that the other party has to answer. NOT to SHOUT down the other party. Goffs slapping of Holmes was well and truly deserved.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    V2 – agreed. It was a disgusting performance from Holmes. Goff was restrained under the circumstances.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Paul Holmes differs little from the rest of NZ’s TV interviewers. They start off okay then the undue public adulation goes to their heads. The subject of the interview gets overshadowed by the interviewer’s ego & instead of public affairs we get the “Paul Holmes Half Hour”. Fourteen minutes of waffle, five minutes of interrupted answers plus adverts.

    It’s why I don’t watch TV…….I don’t want the interviewers opinions…..I want to hear the interviewee’s answers to straightforward intelligent questions.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. BeaB (2,080 comments) says:

    Viking2 To answer your fatuous question – the job of the interviewer on a programme like Q&A is not to let Goff get away with his tired robotic responses about poilce investigations and innocent until proven guilty etc etc as though he couldn’t think of anything else to say.

    I don’t think Holmes was tough enough. Hoskings gave it a good go on Friday night but I wonder if some of you really think the interviewer should sit there like a patsy while Goff parrots his spin. Which we poor viewers have already heard over and boringly over.

    Goff had a prepared line he was grimly sticking to and Holmes did his best to get at the truth of the matter. He obviously got under Goff’s skin and he then tried to attack Holmes thereby losing hands down.

    I’d like someone to put the heat on Goff about the dates and timeline – and about how much Annette King knows/knew. Or did she pocket the rent and turn a blind eye?

    Goff has to go and I am amazed there isn’t someone in Labour with the guts to take on the leadership and give it his/her best shot in the hope of repairing some of the damage and establishing themselves in the leader’s seat before Andrew Little clomps in with all the charisma of an Easter Island statue.

    If only Mallard was on his feet.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. tvb (4,240 comments) says:

    Hughes’ behavior towards the 18 year old was predatory behavior. An 18 year old cannot be expected to necessarily understand that an MP who is a closet case sexually, had something on his mind other than an interesting chat about politics. If Hughes was open about his sexuality then this situation might have been avoided. King and Goff’s judgement on this has been appalling. Did it ever occur to them that Hughes might have been economical with the truth about this. Goff is giving the impression that Hughes has been stood down only because the public have found out about their dirty little secret. But how could they keep it secret. The police frequently have to do investigations in a blaze of publicity – what about the Scott Guy case near Fielding for instance. And anything into a public figure will involve publicity sooner or later.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Jaba:

    Brash locked us into a monetary system better suited for a bannana republic IMF debtor nation (that’s what monetarism was designed for). The reserve bank act has limited growth and innovation in NZ because interest rates are kept artificially high. So much for Brash’s credentials.

    Also – what had Bush junior done before becoming president? I know that he ruined a couple of business enterprises that daddy stumped up the cash for, but what else?

    It should also be obvious to everyone now that Holmes just isn’t very bright, and the older he gets the more of a dick he becomes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. BeaB (2,080 comments) says:

    tvb I agree with every word. This was not a man. He was a teenager fresh out of school, perhaps from a protective middle class family, away for the first time in the big city, full of dreams and ambitions about university and his new life. How could a youngster like that resist being invited along for a night of drinking in sophisticated bars he had probably never been in before with famous MPs ready to gossip in front of him and include him in their socialising. He must have thought this was his adult life really beginning!
    Our heads are easily turned when we are young and that is what makes Darren Hughes behaviour, whether criminal or not, so repulsive. He should have looked after this boy, not filled him full of booze in the hope of having his wicked way, and made sure he got home safely.
    There are no excuses.
    If this is the kind of man Labour thinks is fit to be a leader and legislator then they have sunk even lower than I would have thought possible.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    tvb – i’ve met some pretty world-wary 18 year olds in my time. Not all off us grew up in a seaside culdesac you know.

    Also – even the most sheltered 18 year olds know what it means when someone asks you to get your kit off.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    magic bullet @ 2.51pm

    You neglected to mention that high interest rates were not discouraged by Cullen & Co. As long as the Japanese housewives could get high returns on their savings NZ’s economy rode high on a false retail bubble. There was no real growth in the all important export sector but retail mopped up much of the unemployment while people were encouraged to have it all by “putting it on the house”. The nine years of the last Labour administration saw record growth in private overseas debt.

    The net result was overpriced real estate, $2 shops on every corner & most workers handing over their wages to finance companies for the privilege of driving a piece of second hand Japanese junk.

    At least I can agree with you that Paul Holmes is not very bright. His luminosity compares unfavourably with that of a five watt light bulb.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. jaba (2,093 comments) says:

    Agenda was pretty good when Mr Mau was the presenter. He had a political knowledge and an interviewers ability that Holmes doesn’t have. With so few political programs available in NZ, we need to make them both interesting and relevant.
    McCarten is better on on program like this than a contributor to the Sunday Herald where hi write pure commie crap.
    Hope they keep Bradford away for ever as well

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Chuck Bird (4,748 comments) says:

    “Phillip Field got caught and is thus no longer entitled to the honorific. ”

    Sadly, Holmes was not up to it. If he was lawyer in court and badgered a witness in that fashion the judge would have said the witness has answered your question move on. An interviewer should work in a similar manner. Holmes should have had a heap more questions ready when he struck a dead end.

    I can think of a heap and I am sure others can. It would be great if Leighton can get a call through to Goff.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Chuck Bird (4,748 comments) says:

    Last post should have been.

    “NOT to SHOUT down the other party. Goffs slapping of Holmes was well and truly deserved.”

    Sadly, Holmes was not up to it. If he was lawyer in court and badgered a witness in that fashion the judge would have said the witness has answered your question move on. An interviewer should work in a similar manner. Holmes should have had a heap more questions ready when he struck a dead end.

    I can think of a heap and I am sure others can. It would be great if Leighton can get a call through to Goff.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    nasska – the 5th lab govt wasn’t left-wing, it was liberal. If they had actually redistributed wealth any more than their predecessor you could make a case, but they didn’t. in the words of H1 “we stopped the slide”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. wat dabney (3,716 comments) says:

    Remember, Hughes had been drinking and would have been even more florid that usual. It must have been very frightening.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    If Hughes with all the lubrication that several hours of drinking provided, had not managed to get all the wisdom he possessed, imparted to the impressionable aspiring political junkie, a few months out of high school then he had only two choices if he was the responsible, innocent of any wrong doing he claims to be:
    Continue the discussion at the pub,
    call a recess, call a cab, send the boy to his digs at the hall of residence and go home himself to the ex dental nurse’s house that was his lodgings.

    On the other hand if he wanted …………..

    The ability of the MSM to articulate the real issues of the “story”, has and continues to have the rubbish tabloid headline grasping prostitution like behavour of a once revered and respected profession that every day finds more and more similarities with the oldest.
    Listening to the post election coverage from the other side of the ditch actually reveals what we have lost even as it displays the telltale signs of descent from the once lofty goals that journalism once aspired to. An impartial revelation of facts as can be discovered, submitted for publication without bias, opinion or speculation. ie seeking the truth.

    The meaning of the word truth was revealed to me by a philosophical old WW 2 pilot when I was a callow young man as: ” the balance of probabilities between his story and your story” and that is still as close as anyone will get today with a healthy regard for what the spin Dr says as an added complication of course. And we all know where a spin Dr is recruited from don’t we.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    magic bullet @ 3.37pm

    If WFF isn’t wealth redistribution than what is?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Portia (204 comments) says:

    Dalziel/Cunliffe – you heard it here first…

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/03/the_numbers.html#comment-812997

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    So, two questions from me.

    Shoe on other foot. 32 yr old male MP meets young impressionable woman in pub. They drink, they go back to his place. Something happens, she does a runner. What would we be saying? For me, I’d be saying:

    1. Not really on for an MP to take advantage of 18 yr old supporters, but we all know it happens. When you get caught doing it people pillory you, but honestly, if you were the 32 yr old MP would you say no?

    2. For her to do a runner, suggests that maybe when you got home that she didn’t want what you wanted. She shouldn’t have to run from your house. That is absolutely something that you should get sacked over, and depending on exactly what went on, that probably deserves criminal charges

    3. If there is a pattern of doing similar things, wouldn’t someone at some point have suggested that you might want to fish somewhere other than off the end of the company pier? Meeting random people in the pub and hooking up is a lot different than getting into your supporters – it’s kind of like the CEO banging office staff – there’s a power balance, and it’s not appropriate.

    The only relevant point here relating to the gay thing is if there is a reasonable argument that the young lad thought he was going back for a pleasant chat, rather than some other sort of interlude. I.e. if he didn’t know that Dazza was gay, and he himself wasn’t gay and was taken by surprise. I doubt that’s the case, but it does make a difference – I’d certainly argue that a young lady going home with a guy late at night should have some fair idea what happens next, but just that , it is vaguely plausible that this guy didn’t connect 1 and 1 to make 2. It still shouldn’t really make any difference – irrespective of whether you know what might come next, if you decide to say no you get to say no. But certainly would change the media/PR view a little if he’s tried to jump an entirely unsuspecting young lad.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. emmess (1,393 comments) says:

    Phil Goff likes to style himself as the ‘Goff Father’
    So it should be no surprise about this culture of Omerta in the Labour mafia.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Viking2 (11,242 comments) says:

    Really. The pensioners will like that. Dalzeil sat on her chuff while they all got fleeced and Cunnlife is slippery. Well most money men are I guess.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. marcw (237 comments) says:

    @BeaB [the job of the interviewer on a programme like Q&A is not to let Goff get away with his tired robotic responses about poilce investigations and innocent until proven guilty etc etc as though he couldn’t think of anything else to say...
    ... but I wonder if some of you really think the interviewer should sit there like a patsy while Goff parrots his spin. Which we poor viewers have already heard over and boringly over... ]

    Very perceptive reply. I feel that politicians think that what passes for Question Time in Parliament is an adequate debating example that suffices for the masses. They then delude themselves out in a public forum, and when the voters and taxpayers call them out, are just seen to be inadequte and pathetic. We expect adult behaviour, and we would not get away with their level of name calling and point scoring if we carried on like them in in our real jobs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Rex Widerstrom (5,327 comments) says:

    PaulL says:

    Meeting random people in the pub and hooking up is a lot different than getting into your supporters – it’s kind of like the CEO banging office staff – there’s a power balance, and it’s not appropriate.

    I’m not having a go at you, PaulL, but it just interests me how that comment accepts unquestioningly that advancement ion politics now is all about patronage and has nothing to do with merit.

    When Clinton received his sexual favours no one for a moment thought that Lewinsky would have been appointed a Cabinet Secretary or been given any preference toward a career as a Senator or a Congresswoman. A nice sinecure as a staffer maybe, but her skills on her knees would not have won her a position in which she could influence and control the lives of her fellow citizens.

    But in NZ, with it’s dangerous mix of advancement-through-patronage and the ability of parties, through their lists, to foist upon us people entirely unsuited to high office, the possibility of trading favours – sexual or otherwise – for political preferment is not just possible, it’s facilitated. Look at the way people are still deferring to New York because they know a Godfather-like nod is all they need to advance in their political careers regardless of their intelligence, ability, integrity or even honesty.

    We need to change the system that permits this to occur, and I don’t just mean MMP… though that’d be a start.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. peterwn (3,204 comments) says:

    tvb
    1. despite your advice it may be eapedient almost necessary to take some risk in investigating circumstances. DPF did say to choose carefully who to discuss the matter with ie only those loyal to the cause. It would follow if the person does not wish to talk, then disengage.swiftly and politely. Of course any questions should be ‘open’ and not ‘leading’ ie no ‘push polling’ type techniques. This would not IMO raise any ‘administration of justice’ matters – if you think otherwise, is there any experience you can draw on to suggest otherwise. In general one party to a case does not have a monopoly on particular witnesses. Granted there are some instances in the Commerce Commission and IRD areas where a person assisting with investigations (eg a bank officer providing account information to IRD or Air New Zealand employee being gagged from advising management of content of investigation interviews) is obliged not to disclose matters, but it would not seemto apply as a general case.

    2. Agreed DPF’s list is simplistic and formula oriented. In the immediate instance it would have been better than nothing. A party leader should ensure that there is a ‘damage control’ plan in place. It will suggest processes which would be tailored to particular circumstances and would ensure those who need to be kept in the loop are informed in a timely fashion. The first thing a leader should do is to mobilise a ‘crisis’ team with political, PR and legal knowhow then tailor a plan to suit.

    One trouble in the immediate case, the senior party whip is the person under the spotlight. I think it is the whips who are supposed to deal with such issues in the first instance or try and avoid incidents. So Darren wearing his whip’s hat should have recognised that Darren wearing his MP hat was heading down the road to self destruction.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Barnsley Bill (982 comments) says:

    Hughes was a youth MP.
    What parent is going to be comfortable allowing little jack or Jill playing grown up parliamentarian again after this?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Gooner (995 comments) says:

    PaulL Said:

    So, two questions from me.

    Shoe on other foot. 32 yr old male MP meets young impressionable woman in pub. They drink, they go back to his place. Something happens, she does a runner. What would we be saying? For me, I’d be saying:

    Add to that the MP is someone the Left despise (pretty much all of them, including Labour ones) and you have to ask whether the Red Alert blog would be full of comments that they feel sorry for the MP, as it is now but with Hughes the subject of the pity.

    Truly, they feel sorry for Hughes and are wishing him all the best. In spades.

    Poor guy that Darren Hughes. Some 18yr old boy runs from his house in the early hours of the morning after a night of drinking covering his privates and looking distressed and we should all feel sorry for Darren.

    Yeah. Poor Darren. It’s terrible that someone should run from his house like that. It’s all someone else’s fault (it’s not surprising there is no personal responsibility here).

    The media, which ran devastating campaign against David Garrett, are a disgrace. They are picking on Darren. We should all feel sorry for Darren.

    I just need to take a quick break to go and fetch my tissues.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Goff’s line is really extremely weak isn’t it. He must think we’re all a bunch of idiots. Of course he makes this mistake all the time, every time he opens his mouth. He did it again when he let Hughes participate in the ChCh fund-raiser debate on grubby politics. What an idiot.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Gooner>Poor guy that Darren Hughes. Some 18yr old boy runs from his house in the early hours of the morning after a night of drinking covering his privates and looking distressed and we should all feel sorry for Darren.

    Good point. A number of Labour MPs have commented about how sad they are for Hughes and how they’re sure he will be absolved by the police inquiry. That’s pretty much shitting on the victim… they’re implying that either the incident was no big deal, or the victim is not telling the truth. That’s a pretty strange way to react towards someone who might well have been the victim of a sex crime.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. big bruv (13,548 comments) says:

    For the first time in my life I offer congratulations to Paul Holmes, that is the way that Goff should have been interviewed, it is just a pity that Holmes was never that brave with Klark and her corrupt government.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Rex>An 18 year old man

    Plenty of Google New hits for the term “18 year old girl”. Is there any doubt that if a National or ACT MP had been involved in an incident where an 18 year old female had fled Bill English’s home naked then the media would be using the term “girl” rather than “woman”? Even if she’d left school a few weeks prior to the incident, she was “two years past the age of consent”, and it had been a few months since the MP had gotten to know her while she was wearing her school uniform?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Barnsley Bill (982 comments) says:

    Poor guy that Darren Hughes. Don’t those youth MP’s/ student pollies/ young labour/rainbow wotsits know what they are there for?
    This truly is the Labour party that Jonathon Hunt created back at the princes street branch.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Pete George (23,270 comments) says:

    No bb, if a decent interviewer had asked the right questions and pushed for proper answers Goff would have had to account for how he handled things, instead Holmes just raved over Goff most of the time. Very poor.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Rex Widerstrom (5,327 comments) says:

    davidp asks:

    Is there any doubt that if a National or ACT MP had been involved in an incident where an 18 year old female had fled Bill English’s home naked then the media would be using the term “girl” rather than “woman”?

    No, no doubt at all. And they be just as wrong.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    David P – i’ve seen a senior Act MP (now retired) take a drunk 18 year old girl home from a bar. She was disgusted with herself the day after. The mp in question was in his 60s. It happens all the time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Holmes just raved over Goff most of the time. Very poor.

    I disagree Pete. I think Holmes gave Goff every opportunity but the idiot stuck to his justice line all the time and wouldn’t move off it, as if he thinks anyone believes it. This was the issue I thought not the fact Holmes spoke over him at times. He still gave the idiot ample opportunity to explain his sorry self but he never took it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    The old goat was cruising the student bars in town – buying girls drinks. It was sickening to see. That said, i have little respect for the girl he took home. She was a far-right type. I guess she was in the market for a job with said MP further down the track.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. DJP6-25 (1,300 comments) says:

    Rex Widerstrom 2:09pm. ‘with all the finesse of Parekura Horomia wolfing down a big Mac’. Just as well I’d finished my cup of tea Rex. Great one liner. I wish I’d thought of it.

    cheers

    David Prosser

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    magic bullet:
    1. People get drunk and have sex with people they wouldn’t if they were sober. Happens all the time. Making a bad decision is different than someone refusing to take no for an answer. I wouldn’t go conflating them if I were you

    2. I can’t believe you judge the merits of someone’s complaints based on whether you agree with their politics. Or that you’d ascribe wanting to get a job to a young lady’s motives, just because she was right wing. Let me guess – she brought it on herself – she was wearing a short skirt? Not that it surprises me, many on the left only have sympathy for people they agree with.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Magic

    Name please. No excuses you can write a name. Also So if she was a far right type she was fair game to be fucked ( intimidated?) by a person with a public profile.

    You are a wanker , if it offended you so much why not step in and set her straight or tell him to fuck off? Or are you just making this up because you have taken such a shellacking here the last couple of days

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. DJP6-25 (1,300 comments) says:

    gravedodger 3:49 pm. The papers here in Korea just give you the facts. At the bottom of each story is the reporter’s email addy. The articles from Western papers that they reprint are what you’d expect. That is to say, they’re usually editorials.
    I read the Korea Herald on line in English. Yoiu can google it if you want.

    cheers

    David Prosser

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “People get drunk and have sex with people they wouldn’t if they were sober. Happens all the time. Making a bad decision is different than someone refusing to take no for an answer.”

    You see this is the problem – you don’t actually know what happened. The point is, neither left nor right have a monopoly on morality. Some of the people on the right that you guys praise so much, are utter sleaze-bags. Sorry to tarnish your black and white world view lads.

    Ultimately, a free-market economy will make things worse in this regard. Large power and wealth inequalities simply provide the circumstances for seedy dealings. The free-market makes whores of so many people.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Paul Marsden (990 comments) says:

    Cheeses H Christ…ALL this debate about a little ginger gnome and his retarded penis, who knows nothing abut existing in the real world.

    Meantime, Rogers jailed because coz he won’t deliver up intellectual property that could make $ millions for NZ.

    Meantime, Japan has begun to reconstruct itself after one of the world’s most devastating conflagrations, ever. Thousands perished. NZ still can’t get its shit together in Christchurch..

    Oh dear, what a pathetic little country we have become…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Magic

    So you are just full of shit, instead of putting up you troll off on… Marxism 101 for Idiots

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    magic, you’re the one judging people by their politics. I went out of my way to say that politics and sex go together, much as I wish it were different. I also said I thought it was trouble for anyone to be having sex with young supporters of their party due to the power difference. Youth MPs just makes it worse.

    Why are you making this a left/right discussion. The fact that you view morality through politics astounds me, but it shouldn’t. You’re yet another on the left who thinks anything a lefty does is fine, and anything a righty does is wrong. The fact that you went further and suggested that righty chicks were fair game and you didn’t care, just because they were right wing, was even more disgraceful. The more you comment here, the more you demonstrate why people should ignore you.

    I turned off RIP once Phil and Red were gone. Your existence and unthinking comments make me think about turning it back on.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Paul – it’s Sunday, have a cup of tea. The freer the market the higher the wealth inequality, and the cheaper people become to buy. It’s supply and demand. Girl born in to poor family – gets out of home, struggling to pay bills. She has pussy and no money, rich old guy has cash and no pussy.

    Do i have to draw a graph for you? I mean seriously. If you can’t understand this, you’re a moron.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Inventory2 (10,166 comments) says:

    Come on magic; put up, or admit that you made it up

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. reid (16,085 comments) says:

    It happens all the time.

    So you’re trying to say Hughes’ judgement was actually fine, cause this was no big deal?

    You do understand why people don’t agree with that, don’t you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    nah – DPF will delete it and i will be banned. I don’t understand your incredulity either. What’s so surprising about it all?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    reid – given Hughes’ public profile, it would be an error of judgment for him to pick up an 18 yr old at a bar. That said – i also know that one of the most senior Nat MPs is married to a woman, and he tried to pick up a gay friend of mine who was in his early 20s. This happened in a Wellington bar.

    No doubt this is only the tip of the burg as well. Most of the time the press will have nothing to do with such stories how ever.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Magic

    You are now proving to be a ponce – seeking attention from your betters, tedious again

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. tvb (4,240 comments) says:

    I stand by my view that the PM’s office should not be talking to witnesses in a Police inquiry into an MP even if politically favourable. How useful is that information anyway. And how do you avoid the perception that you are trying to influence witnesses while saving the career of an MP. As for demanding a confession what prevents the police from obtaining that. Supposing the Chief/PM refuse. The Police demand it, least the Chief gets accused of obstruction of justice. Imagine if the PM had the confession. Do the Police ignore that??? Farrar’s little list of rules are frought with difficulty and are utterly naive.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Also – i could tell you some stomach-churning information about a former Nat Party leader. Things he did to one of my closest friends, that i’m still counseling him over to this day. He’s a mess, and fears for his life should he go public with it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    No Paul – this is all true.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay>Name please. No excuses you can write a name.

    I’m curious too. Wikipedia lists birth dates for all ACT MPs except Owen Jennings and Gerry Eckhoff. Maybe someone could hazard a guess as to whether they were MPs while they were in their 60s. Because the only other person who fits magic bullet’s description of an ACT MP in his 60s is Derek Quigley.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. tvb (4,240 comments) says:

    An 18 year old cannot be expected to understand a closet homosexual especially an MP. If Hughes was open about his sexuality then people would know the score. I will wager that when Hughes made his real intention known the kid would have been in shock. Hughes gives me the impression of being a total creep. Jolly person ha ha ha as he makes a pass, ooops, did I do that ha ha ha ooops, ha ha ha. Yuck. The type is well known to a more sophisticated person.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    Take care davidp @ 08 01, I am 68 and I would suggest D Q is at least 10 yrs older than self. We goes back aways to his days in Waipara when he was standing against Labour stalwarts such as old Mabel Howard in Sydenham as an aspiring young Nat. I would go so far as to claim Derek as a “mate” in the best aussie tradition of course.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/files/images/stories/viceregal/viceregal-010.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/sir-keith-holyoake-masonic&usg=__aSqX3G060hk1ApwQzKR5rB3mD14=&h=600&w=323&sz=36&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=1nc9kRM1JsjfGM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=80&ei=ROWOTZiOFI-6vwPhksygDQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkeith%2Bholyoake%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D410%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=375&vpy=-76&dur=338&hovh=306&hovw=165&tx=108&ty=285&oei=ROWOTZiOFI-6vwPhksygDQ&page=1&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    david – must have been late 50s then. He looked in his 60s to me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    The sickos that lead the right wing of politics in the Anglo-American world. You fools have no idea.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Gravedodger… Nothing to be careful about. I find magic bullet’s stories about all his different friends who have had sexual encounters with right wing MPs, including the one who “fears for his life” if he goes public, to be at the Jevan Goulter Fantasist level of credibility. He gave some demographic details presumably expecting they would leave some ambiguity. It turns out that the only person who fits his description is the least likely person to have done the act alleged. So magic bullet has changed his mind and is now alleging something different. Credibility equals zero.

    According to Wikipedia, Quigley was born in 1932 and was an ACT MP in his 60s. Hard to think it was 30 years ago when he was standing up to Muldoon.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Ed Snack (1,783 comments) says:

    Sometimes it seems that some people take this very lightly. But is it correct that plying someone with alcohol with the intention of making them incapable, and/or taking advantage of someone who is so drunk as to be incapable of making an informed decision, is adjudged to be a serious sexual assault ? That’s not to say that this is what happened, but it is a possibility, and surely this isn’t necessarily a case we should flippantly pass off as drunken idiocy by an 18 year old and an older person. Sure 18′s old enough to drink and vote and go to war, doesn’t mean you can’t become a victim of a sexual assault though.

    I would myself feel that Hughes must be pretty close to being in a position of authority to a young party activist, he is a senior MP with a significant political position (or rather, was) as whip, and if he was buying the drinks, I’d be retaining a very good lawyer. At best it looks very bad (and has quite possibly cost him his profession as an MP for a time), at worst surely there’s some chance of time inside.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. reid (16,085 comments) says:

    The sickos that lead the left wing of politics in the Anglo-American world. Lefty fools of course have no idea.

    Hulun’s a Fabian isn’t she. Yes, of course she is.

    Yes Ed that’s pretty much how I read it at the mo too, I agree with everything you say.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Perhaps we should have a competition to describe a Magic Bullet-style sexual encounter that you or a friend have had with a Labour MP. I’ll start with two:

    1. When I was 16, Helen Clark picked me up in a bar and propositioned me for sex. I wasn’t that keen to start with and it didn’t help that she wanted me to dress up in a wet suit. Oh, and Judith Tizard was going to watch. I fled the scene naked but managed to elude the police. Unfortunately I’ve had to grow a beard and live under an assumed name ever since because I’m scared of EPMU heavies and UN black helicopters.

    2. I was a member of the Wainuiomata Labour Party branch when I was a young man. After a meeting Trevor Mallard plied me with alcohol and asked me to turn him gay. I explained that I was also straight but he said that didn’t matter. He was in his 60s at the time. Or maybe his 20s. Or maybe his 40s. We did the deed but I regretted it the next day. He wanted me to pretend to be his bicycle. That was strange to start with, but he crashed and broke several bones and that was just weird.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Any way its adult time now ,

    Grave dodger, we under stand what mate means,,.. the night was cold, we were lonely, we were miles from home in Waipara and Mabel wasn’t turning it up , honestly its OK you don’t have to explain……………………

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. Rex Widerstrom (5,327 comments) says:

    regarding magic’s story, I might observe that when Winston and I were out drinking (me in my 30s him just turned 50, him at that time married and known to be, me single) it was he that was hit on, time and time again, by girls half his age and less. He used to joke that I needed to advance up the party ladder if I expected the same “action”.

    To his credit he never, ever, so much as bought the young “lady” a drink let alone took her home. And I guess he’s better looking than any Act MP I can think of, in his 60s or otherwise. But no other 50 year old Maori gentleman – especially not one who may be dark and handsome but definitely falls short in the “tall” department – was having such luck.

    Power is a potent aphrodisiac, it seems. So is fame. When I was on the wireless I got all sorts of propositions… nothing to do with my undoubted animal magnetism, because so did everyone else who was on air. Some even took the young ladies up on their offers and found that not only were some “just out of school” but they’d lied and were still in school.

    It’s entirely credible that a young woman in a bar would go home with a 60 year old Act MP… what I find less credible was that he had to go to the unecessary expense of buying her a drink first.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Farrar says: ‘Likewise it is entirely common for an employer to take disciplinary action against an employee in regard to alleged criminal offending, without waiting for charges to be laid.”

    Not entirely true, employment case law requires an employer to conduct a full and impartial investigation. To dismiss before a case is heard can be very foolish and expensive.

    Anyway, what has employment law to do with this? Hughes isn’t an employee.

    Great to see the usual suspects indulging in their usual bouts of name-calling, reid and big bruv showing their usual class.

    big bruv, how was the strike? You back at work yet or still on the picket line?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Sorry Maggie, you referring to the Fabians? Why how like a lefty to ignore the obvious fact it was in response to a lefty gibe in the first place.

    But never mind Maggie, I understand.

    You’re grieving.

    How’s it going.

    Sad, isn’t it.

    Very very very very sad.

    Ah well.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. Nookin (3,176 comments) says:

    I think that the employment law analogy is fair. The “full fair and impartial”bit comes from the good faith obligations and it might well be time that those values were to be expected from the pollies. Pigs might fly first, though. I think the point that David was making is that the question the Goff had to ask was not necessarily the question that the Police had to ask. It is common for employees to be suspended even dismissed while a police investigation is pending.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    davidp – that was actually pretty funny. The sad thing is, reality is actually stranger than fiction.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Nookin, thanks for an intelligent response. reid, of course, never says anything even remotely imtelligent.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Meanwhile the Herald this morning is suggesting that to claim there is an immediate move to topple Goff is an unrealistic one

    So Maggie, you can put away the kleenex.

    In fact, quite a few of you can . . . regardless of which bodily fluid they’re being used to dab up.

    Ironically, ‘I fear we have peaked too early’ is what might have been said on the fateful night in question.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. Maggie (674 comments) says:

    Lee, you mean there is absolutely nothing in the topic which has dominated this blog for days? The whole thing is a Farrar beatup? Surely not……

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. Pete George (23,270 comments) says:

    Maggie, are you absolutely sure there was nothing in the story? Are you absolutely sure that there is no one in Labour or no supporters of Labour who would like to see Goff off?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Batman (103 comments) says:

    DPF – “The panel on Q+A is flailing Goff for his inaction. It’s almost brutal.”

    And so they should, as someone who went through Jon Johansson’s 1st year and 3rd year programmes (third year is on NZ pols), his comment about Darren ‘dirty Dazza’ Hughes going through the Vic politics programme and failing to learn the basic principle they (try to) instill in all of us. that principle is prudence, you never know how your actions will backfire and come back to bite you so be very prudent about your decisions.
    I also particularly liked good old Don McKinnon’s rugby metphor, very apt!

    DPF – “DPF: I understand that it was “all around” Vic for some days before it went public”
    This is also true, though I have very recently left Vic, I was told about this rumour about a week before it broke. no names were involved at that point though, only that it was a Labour MP

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.